Aaron Lennon Chats To SWP, Wrighty & Carra | Gillette Labs: Movember Special

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0:45But when you switch to Shopify point of sale, you can unify retail operations and guarantee smooth shopping across every location. Shopify POS, the best retail experiences without complexity. Visit shopify.com slash UK slash without complexity to learn more I was in a really really bad place Like suicidal thoughts I didn't get sectioned I probably wouldn't be here having this conversation It's almost like he didn't feel that he's my son and everything It was an escape As soon as I stepped on the field or the training ground That was gone There was a banner at Amphil for Gary Neville What's it say?

1:28Grow a proper mussy, you scruff

1:39So Sean, can I say welcome to the overlap man Thanks man Do you like football heroes? Let's start with a shave Are you going to teach me though? I could teach you now I've been waiting for this since I was about 15 years old I was busy bro I want you to take off this part here No, you're trying to just leave this, alright? Yeah, I'm gonna leave this here, but I want this bit here. So let's see. I want to shave him. So you're gonna need some of this. Let me see how much you put in because... Don't put too much because it's gonna foam up. All right, well, take half then. I'll take some, I'll take that.

2:08Watch. Why'd you put it on the stuff? I said I'm not shaving. I said I'm just gonna do the sides. All right. Don't put it on there. So go like that, look. Look at what I've just done. That's what I'm doing. Blow it up. strokes see strokes look at that you're enjoying this I'm not is it feel smooth it's feeling very smooth let me get that see I'm leaving down there because you want to do that fancy goatee foolishness so I won't touch that look I don't normally do it with my left hand but I'm so good this shave is so good I can do it with my left hand look no put your head down what you did there's foam in your head yeah but leave there's foam in your head yeah but just leave the razor over there Look, look, look.

2:52Why do you make people think that I'm messing around with you? Because you do. Sean, what's happening with the grand children, man? What's happening with Dimash in Belgium? Getting fit, isn't it? In this pre-season. The only time I know what you're doing... Turn in the mirror so people can see what I'm doing. What's wrong with you? Is when I look on your Instagram because you don't tell me where you're going. Last time I looked... That sounds like you. Last time I looked... I wonder where I get that from. Last time I looked, he was in... Where do I get that from? Was in China? Was in Tokyo? Jeez, I was saying, you know what?

3:20Let me phone Sean and say, Sean, what are you doing? Pass through. You do the same. Wipe it off. Yeah, I can just wipe it. Just get off me. Jesus, this is embarrassing, bro. My God. Let me see your face in the mirror. Look how clean you look. Let me see you. I'm so proud of how you look at the moment, my friend. You know what? I should have done that at some stage. Just don't push me off, baby. Sorry. That's what you have to do when you're a barber. You have to do people's head like this. You have to go like this. You're not a barber, thankfully. But I'm just saying, like, this bit here, when you get...

3:49Clean that bit up so you clean all that up there as well. This is a moisturiser. Look, this bit here. This is a moisturiser here. This much? A little bit more. And then just put it on the sides. Let me... Look at... Look at... Come on, let me just cream it properly. Let me cream... Stop being a bully. I'm not bullying. Just because I know you're going to thing it and you're stronger than me, but I want to make sure that it's in your face. Look at you. OK, come on, let's just thing it. So righty, we're here for another Gillette and Overlap special to celebrate the heroes of men's mental health for Movember.

4:22And we've got Aaron Lennon and we've got... My hero. You know him, don't you? My baby. It's my baby. And then we've got a few special guests coming later for Movember. So Aaron, let's start with you. You started your career at Leeds Academy. Who was the players you looked up to there? Who were your heroes? My heroes then. when it really started firing. I think a player like me was like Harry Kuehl, Alan Smith. Millie was another one. James Milner was a good one. He was a year above me, but watching him progress in the academy, they were like my little role models following their footsteps. And there was a player, as you looked at them, going, I want to follow that path.

5:03How old was you again when you got in the first team? 16. So I was a baby still. So I progressed really quickly, but I was born in Leeds, playing for your home team. It was everything. I mean, Milner got in early as well, didn't he? Yeah, he was 16. He was 16 as well, and he was a year above me. I remember the Leeds Academy at that time. It was the academy, wasn't it, in terms of bringing players through. You think of the team that won under David O 'Leary, went really fine in the Champions League. There was a lot of young lads there, wasn't there? Yeah, Alan Smith. McPhail. That's a good player.

5:33McPhail, Lee Boyer, Johnny Woodgate. So, yeah. Gary Kelly, Ian Hart, they were still young boys. And they came through the academy as well, even though they were the Irish boys. They'd come over. Wow. So we were all developing really good players at that time. Sean, is it possible to have a role model when you've already got this fella? Yeah, it is. Other role models. It was weird. It was in stages for me because obviously dad was doing his thing playing football. But as I was growing up, mum was like one of my role models. And then as I got into that age where I was playing football, then it was like, okay, dad's kind of created a pathway in this game for me and for the family and for everybody else.

6:08So then it became like, Dad, because he's the person I could go to and say, like, Dad, this situation has happened. How do I get around that? And he'd say, well, what was you thinking? He would never say to me, like, just do this and that. He would always say first, what was your idea on that? Because the idea that I came up with might have been right and may just not work. And he would just give me another way to look at it and a possible way to put it in the back of the net in many ways. Extra pressure? No. With this fella? No. And inspiration drives you on? You know what's good about him is that it's almost like he didn't feel the outside of the fact that he's my son and everything.

6:47Because the way he played, he just played. Watching him from like eight, he just played. It was almost like it was an escape in many ways. So whatever was going on outside or away from the field, as soon as I stepped on the field or the training ground, that was gone. It was just football. It was just enjoyment. I got to have fun with my friends and then obviously when you start playing a bit higher it becomes a little bit more serious. Did you ever not think about being a striker? Was that sort of in your head? I actually started there. Me and one of my best mates, Lee Anderson, we actually started up there and we just used to shoot higher because most of the goalkeepers were small, weren't they?

7:23So you could just shoot at the top of the net and then move back to centre midfield then right wing, Bradley and Brett You would like the strikers. You think most young players, if you're the best player at school or whatever, I mean, I was a striker. I think most of us end up, start as a striker. Yeah, that's a good point. If you're any good at it, you stay there. If you're not, you get four back. Is that what it is? You only had to go to right wing. I had to go to centre back. No, it's a good point, that is. It's normally pace, isn't it? Yeah, I was playing in front as well as a young kid coming through.

7:56Do you think it's because of the pace? I think in many ways, because back then everyone was like big and wanted to kick you. So if they just played long ball, you were always going to get there first, weren't you? With you, James, who's the players that, like, for instance, your son? Because obviously you're in it. You're a top defender, Liverpool, won the Champions League, which is something that's always in my head, that run-off. You know that run-off what you do, James, the way you jump. With James, who did James look up to? Obviously, there's you, but who else was there? I'd say the Liverpool players, he's a big Liverpool fan.

8:26And I don't know, obviously, the dynamic between you and you two, but sometimes he wouldn't see me as an ex-footballer as such. I was his dad, really. Obviously, he knew I played football, but I could see the way he was in front of Stevie Gerrard. As he's like... Yeah, almost like, ooh, you know, or when I took him into Liverpool once, I was doing an interview, and Van Dijk got a picture with Van Dijk. And I could, you know, I could see... Obviously, he's not going to be like that with me, but it was just you can see the effect so I think those Liverpool players he was lucky that he came along at the time and Liverpool had that team, those famous players so they're the players he looks up to without a doubt Aaron, when you're young do you've got brothers and sisters?

9:13Yeah How many brothers and sisters have you got? Two brothers and a sister Did they play? My big brother did so he was like my role model because he was at Leeds coming through then he signed for Man United at 14 and went back to Leeds so I was just following his footsteps I was like I just want to be a football player And like I said, my dad played as well. Not to that level, but all we did was play football. If you see me in the streets, I'd just have a football with me. And that's all I wanted to do. But obviously watching my big brother playing every day, it was like, yeah, I'd go. Even when he was training, so I'd train on the Monday.

9:41He'd go to maybe Man United on Tuesday. I'd still go because I just wanted to be around football. I just wanted to watch him, take everything in. And yeah, that's all I wanted to do. So it was just following his footsteps, really. Sean, are you trying to be that role model for your own son? yeah and no I want them to see there's a chance well I've got my son that plays obviously my daughter and my youngest she's started playing football as well so I think they've kind of taken after each other rather than me they know their granddad played they know their uncle played know that I played how does it feel getting called granddad?

10:18I know there's some good genes there I tell you what there's some good genes there I can't remember I was a really young granddad as well and like Demacia they always always call me granddad you know what I mean it was something you kind of get used to but then it's fine it's fine now when you're talking about role models when I met Sean we got involved he was three the reason why I wanted to make sure that he was okay is because it was supposed to be my role model was an absolute nightmare he was a nightmare me and Sean's mum we got together and I said I'm going to make sure that he's okay in respects of having the figure in his life.

10:56But as time went by, I always thought he's a lot more calm than me. You know what I mean? He's a lot more mature in his head than me. He's very calm about everything. And it's one of the things that I take from him is how calm he was. But the main thing I wanted to make sure that he had was supporting anything that he needed. Because obviously, I went on, I moved on, but he was always in and around me, him and Bradley. And I just wanted to make sure that there was always a point where he can come and stay with him. we can do our stuff together, which was really good. But his mum's got to take a lot of credit for what's happened to him, how he came through, how his mannerisms are, you know what I mean?

11:34Everything about him, you know what I mean? His mum's got to take a lot of credit for it. The thing when you've got a son and you're almost going through something that you've been through before, and different for us, you haven't got that, not so much a figurehead, but almost that thing of someone becoming a professional footballer in someone's family is like, oh my God, no one can believe that, you know, whether it's your cousins, your uncles, your grandmother and grandkids, no one can believe it and no one's been there before. So I think the thing that you've got and my son James have got is the fact that those situations that you talk about, that's where I feel like I can help.

12:10You pass on your experience and I remember a quote, I only read it a few months ago and I said it to my son, you know in football there's always people trying to like, you know, it's competition, you're fighting for your position, there's someone who doesn't want you to do well listen we're all in that the dynamic of a dressing room maybe a rival club you're looking to get a move whatever it may be but there's only one person probably in the world who wants you to do better than you and I said that to James there's only one person in the whole of football who wants you to do better than me and it's your dad that's it there's only one person so and I that's you know you look at Sean I look at James and I'm like you think of all the little mistakes that you made don't you I wish I hadn't done that and you're trying to just push as much as you possibly can into them but what you said about Sean I'd say about James as well I think he's probably more I don't think perfect but you know like just you know the obstacles in your way and you're going out as a young lad and you're getting involved in different things I just think he's a lot more I just think yeah not just because of me but I think the way the game's moved on and it is now they're so well aware more mature as well talking about dads as well I'm not saying you're looking tired or anything but you got a newborn bro a newborn yeah a couple of days ago wow are you getting any sleep not much sleep I was in the hotel last night just to get a few hours before the show the vibe the feeling is amazing I've got to congratulate it's amazing the best feeling in the world I've got another child I've got a little boy who's three years old but now you can't look We have some good feelings in football, but it doesn't compare.

13:52Yeah, that's the best. Like I said, the baby come out, it takes everything away. Can I tell you something that will kind of take you to a place where you think, this is unbelievable, I'm so fortunate, is watching your son play football, professional football. I'm not joking. Never felt so. Or your daughter, your granddaughter, whoever it is, even just watching her play, but watching your son play, I was more nervous, Jamie. I was petrified. and you know Sean just went out and done his stuff but I tell you it kind of compares with seeing your new boy when you see them come out I tell you if you are fortunate enough for your child to play football for a living and get to a certain level I don't think anything beats that

14:56We'll be right back.

15:17We're here for Movember. Aaron, you've been really open about your mental health challenges. Can you just open up a little bit on your story? Yeah, no. About seven years ago, I was in a really, really bad place, like severe depression. And it probably actually started before that, but I actually at the time didn't know what was going on. Just waking up each day, not realising, why am I feeling this way, why the energy's low, not really wanting to join in with the lads in training, not wanting to join in with the banter. But I didn't know it at the time. And I was one of them quite old school person.

15:49I'm quite... Keep yourself to yourself. Yeah, keep myself to myself. And I used to always try and look after everyone else. There was never a time where I thought, should I go and ask, like, tell the doc, I'm not feeling all right here. So I just tried to just brush it aside. And I was just getting worse and worse. Was there anything that pinpointed that? I don't know, you just started to feel down. At the time, I was just, like I said, feeling lower and lower, not things. And again, to get to a stage where you can't even get out of bed. Just not want to be around people. Just want to be in the dark.

16:15Not want to see anyone. and I would just put in on a mask, so I could walk into a room and you'd think he's fine. I could go in and go, oh, yes, lads, you all right? Nice one. Do my training and get off. But then I'd go home and literally just get back in bed. And I did that for a long period of time, and it got to, like, the last, just before when I was at Everton, probably the last 10 days of that, honestly, I was struggling to get out of bed. I was struggling to, I couldn't get out of bed, I couldn't function. At what stage did you know it's mental health and not, you know, I'm just having a bad few days?

16:47how long through did you realise this was something serious at the time I'm just like this will pass I'm not sleeping I'm not enjoying football I'm not enjoying off the pitch I'm not even enjoying like I said a night out or whatever with the lads anymore but at the time I'm just like this will pass this will pass I'll be alright do you think that comes down to the competitive brain in respects of us playing football and saying I've just got blast through this yeah do you think that plays a part I'll get through this I don't need any help I'll deal with this and I'm with them as well I didn't want to put it on anywhere else didn't want to ring my dad I didn't want to ring my family.

17:16I've got good friends, good family, good mum and dad. And I was like, no, I'll stop listening. Got to a stage where I was, like, suicidal thoughts. Like I said, I couldn't get out of bed. So eventually, like I said, I got assessed and I was sectioned. I was literally put in hospital. I still wouldn't have gone in. And that's why I tell people to this day, like, if I didn't get sectioned, I probably wouldn't be here having this conversation. So, like I said, they've done me so much by actually putting me in the hospital. How tough did you find it to speak to someone about it? and who was the first person you spoke to?

17:47So, obviously, the club realised I wasn't even making training anymore. So the doc comes round, they start sending people to assess you. I don't want to have conversations. I couldn't even grasp it. I was so far gone, honestly. My mind was literally on a completely different planet. It's such a scary place to be in because you can't rationalise actually what is going on. Do you know what I mean? You just can't figure out what. So, you see, when you say that then, Aaron, what would you say to people now when you say, at what stage of this point where you are now, where you say you need to speak to somebody at this stage?

18:20As early as possible. Once you start to realise there's something going on. So I've worked back now, I've worked with therapists and stuff. My first one of the biggest triggers for me was knowing was sleep. So for some reason at all, I'd started to really struggle with sleep. That was one of the first key pillars. I always say to people, how are you sleeping? So if I speak to people now, I say, how are you sleeping? Because that's normally a sign of that something in their mind is not going right. And that was one of the things, because I was one of them, I could sleep anywhere. any afternoon, any night, I would nap I would finish training, two hours nap, go to bed 12 hours, and all of a sudden I was going to bed and literally just couldn't sleep and that was one of the first warnings after that it was like losing didn't want to join in with stuff didn't want to even go training What about food, was you still eating and stuff?

19:02It affects everything, so then you get to that stage by the end point, literally you're not doing any of it you're not sleeping, you're not eating, you're not exercising, you're not joining and then it's just a spiral. Sean, what would if you think of some of the dressing rooms you've been in big personalities big characters obviously Manchester City Chelsea or England how difficult would that have been to speak up in a situation like that if you were going through something similar or a team mate was very difficult I think my first spell at City it would have been much easier because of the manager like Joe Roe Willie Donaghy and the players they had there were quite like open nurturing Murturing, like, helping me through it.

19:43When I went to Chelsea, my whole world changed in many ways. And I always say to people, a lot of people ask me, did I have any problems with it? I said, you know what, I was quite lucky in terms of when I left the training ground, I left football kind of there. And then when I went home, it was about family, friends, basically social, and I would just play video games or watch movies to just kind of in many ways reset my mind because when I did go to Chelsea, it was almost, I'm not playing as regular. So that would have been my first mental challenge, how am I dealing with that? And the only way for me to deal with it is, is I felt like I understood that that's my job, this is my family.

20:28And I think that helped me through a lot of things. And even when I went to QPR at the end, I thought I was training amazing. and in the manager's mind, he just didn't want me there. And Nader Manua was a key person in that. He got me into going into the gym with him, doing like, just like, not weights, just like press-ups and pull-ups and little things like that. And it kind of just kept my mind somewhere else. So what about the 2006? Remember that, the world, when you was omitted from that one? How did you feel about that one, the World Cup squad? I was gutted because I'd obviously, obviously Theo turned out to be a great player but at that time he had never played a senior men's game of football and I remember it taking me the best part of two years of people talking about you should be in the England squad you should be doing this with them and then for that to happen and he's never played a game I was like well this is this is a bit this is a bit random and and I just said to myself do you know what it's football and I said I'm just going to go away for the whole of the tournament I'm going to watch the games and still support them as a fan but I'm just going to just cut myself away from that situation and just focus on myself and my friends and just having a laugh and enjoying everything that I worked hard to be able to in many ways do.

21:47And I think that helped me deal with a lot of my challenges. Obviously, I've got my dad in the corner who's been through a lot. This Movember, unite to take on mental health. Reminded that Movember kicks off on the 1st of November. Remember, there are multiple ways to get involved even if you can't grow. Move for mental health, post a moment or mo your own way. You also don't have to do it alone. Start a team in your community or take on Movember at work and always speak kindly about all types of mo's. Even patchy mo's save lives. Visit movember.com forward slash Gillette for more information on how to sign up and get involved.

22:29Aaron what about with yourself what about you with the with the network you had around you especially talk about all that time seemed like you went a while before anyone could actually get in yeah who finally got in and who was once they realised how deep you were yeah so probably my brother but the thing is in football I could keep him at bay do you know what I mean I could say I'm tired I'm training late do you know what I mean so I could keep my family up because I knew if I was around them too much they would pick up on it and I didn't want that help like I I didn't want to ask for help I was too proud yeah too proud I'm like no I'm not struggling sign of a weakness so yeah I did and I remember a couple of times my brother then said Aaron what's wrong what's happening come stay at my house for a few days and I eventually did and then to the fair I wasn't going to training and that's when the doctors finally came in so I think about situations I went through in my career and I actually ended up seeing a sports psychologist you probably know Remember Bill Beswick?

23:29He worked with England. So I didn't really know a sports psychologist. It wasn't part of the game. And it was frowned upon. I didn't hide it from anyone at the club, really. But I didn't make a big song and dance about it. But I used to see him three or four times a year. And it wasn't so much that I had huge problems. It was just, from a football point of view, I was putting that much pressure on myself. you want to deliver the best retail experiences but it's hard especially with multiple stores staff fulfillment centers gmbs kpis okrs and the only thing harder is being in charge of it all but when you switch to shopify point of sale you can unify retail operations and guarantee smooth shopping across every location shopify pos the best retail experiences without complexity Visit shopify.com slash UK slash without complexity to learn more.

24:52Jambuay responsibly. Visit drinkaware.co.uk for more information.

25:00To perform, and I always remember we played a game in the Champions League away in Atletico Madrid. So we're winning 1-0, I'm organising the defence, and last minute I made a mistake for a goal. 1-1, it was only a group game, and then I'm in the airport and I'm like, this can't go on. I can't keep punishing. I'm like in the airport thinking like this is like the worst thing that's ever happened and I was like I can't keep putting myself through this and I remember being in the airport and getting his number and texting him and ringing him before we got on the flight thing and I've got to see someone and this wasn't, but I'll blow my own trumpet you have ups and downs in your career but this was probably me at my peak, this Benitez area but because I was at my peak I felt like I couldn't have a bad game I felt like if I have a bad game, we drew we should win and I had to see him three or four times a year and go back to sort of that situation with you with Sean you've been there and been through it when you've got a very supportive family but it's difficult to speak to people who understand what you're going through because people will say oh you're a footballer you've got a few quid you've got a bit of fame and listen of course it's amazing it's a great life we know all that but when you're really professional and your job's important.

26:21Competitive nature. Yeah, and you want to be the best. I couldn't deal with that on my own. I needed someone who understood. For me, basically, to get things off my chest, two or three hours, one afternoon, every couple of months, just to see where I'm at. You know what I mean? I mean, did you ever see psychologists? I found it a bit of Chelsea and a bit of, obviously, England and the second time at Man City. they would come in, we would get to speak to them. But I actually found that harder. I found it easier just like if dad called me and said, how are you doing, my boy? How's my son? I found it easier to just say, well, I'm struggling with this or I'm going through that.

27:03I think the older I've got, I became more closed in terms of what's going through my head. If somebody didn't ask me, I'll just think, I can just battle through it all on my own. Pretty similar to Aaron, but now I'm just, I'm an open book. and that's thanks to people like Aaron and other people that's gone through it that's saying like, talk, get it off your chest because there's more people in the world that may be able to help you solve those little problems to get you back on the right track. You know the thing with it as well, Jamie, even when, you know, even with us, we mess around, we do, well, I wouldn't say we mess around but we do stick to football, we do stick to, and then what happens is, is that I get a lot of people come back and they say things like, right, you just continue to be yourself, you know, vulnerability, you know, because people say, I take the piss cause, oh, here we go, another sad story.

27:47They call me Gandhi or something like that, which... Sorry. You know what the thing is? It's funny. It's funny, but the message, what I would like to give people is, you can't change it. I cannot change from the fact that I can cry at a film or I'm vulnerable or I'm emotional because those just come out. And that's what my life is. That's how it is for me. And so what I would try to encourage people to do is, it doesn't matter when people are saying those things. As long as you're being yourself and you let it out, people will, there's always people who are going to gravitate towards you because they can see you're just like them.

28:22Honestly, one of the best things you can do is speak. Honestly, it changed my life. Them first few conversations I had from being literally suicidal, rock bottom, to speaking to someone, instantly changed me. It's amazing. It's like a weight off my shoulders. How was Sean Daish? Sean was incredible. Honestly, I couldn't peek. I came back and went to Everton and Everton was brilliant for me. And then I moved to Burnley shortly after that. But Sean was, he was literally the perfect manager. the perfect club for me at that time because he was just so honest he'd get me in the office and just say like how are you?

28:51Like forget the footballer who cares about the football? Like how are you? And I needed that and I'd be like yeah I'm alright I've had a few bad days because people think I came back and just went like that and oh you're back at football I was having loads of days it was like that coming back and Sean was brilliant for me there were days he'd be like if you need a couple of days stay at home Unbelievable and honestly that was You know Stan Turner and a Bernie for me Stan Turner and a Bernie and plus the lads I kind of went full circle but by the time I went to Burnley, you know, I started at that kind of level.

29:18Obviously, it was lower level than Burnley, but the facilities were like that. And so you kind of go round, and then I ended up there with a manager like Stan, who, it was in this time, I was getting proper counselling, I'd come back down to London, get the counselling, but it was someone like Stan that I could go to Stan's house and just sit down and talk to him about things, everything. And then when you come out with the therapist, wonderful lady I used to go and see, you do feel like wow you genuinely feel like something's lifted off you you i cannot you know i know it's not cheap it's not cheap to get that kind of therapy but it's the kind of thing if you're able to get to speak to somebody who are who knows exactly what they're talking about and how they're going to help you and let you answer the questions that you feel like when i first used to go there i used to say you're telling me answers i already know them and she says yeah that's right but i've got i've got to re-inform reaffirm it to you yeah you've got to understand you know the answer yeah but you're still coming here but you still need to speak about it you need to speak and get it off your chest so you can move on to the next bit yeah i can't i can't um i can't stress how important it is to to speak to people you don't have to go to a therapist it's just them conversations it's just them conversations and then what happens is is that you've got to be careful again jane of like people say all right keep going don't don't we're about to people taking the piss, is that you've got to not change from what you're doing because you're on this journey of trying to go to a space where you are feeling good.

30:44You don't want to go back in there. You want to better yourself. 100%. Is football in a better place? I mean, you've been through it. I mean, I think we all agree it is in a better place to deal with situations like this. Do you think there's any more that can be done, Adam? Like I said, it's improved. I still think there's more to be done. Like I said, since I've come out of football, I'm still having conversations with players who are not sure who to turn to. like I said there's very pristine clubs now most of the top teams anyway some of the bigger clubs so to speak have somebody in there but I know some of the players are still quite not sure where to go sit do you know what I mean can I go sit in this guy's office will I get picked at the weekend if I go tell him I'm struggling and I just think we need to normalise these conversations more like the same way Kerry you know we go into the physio say oh my hammy's tight oh my back we won't go in and go I'm struggling here with my head doc do you know what I mean because he's thinking I'm not going to play at the weekend that's exactly it and I think we've got to get to there where players feel a lot more comfortable.

31:35I don't think we're there yet, but it has improved. I still think there's a lot to be done. Do you think the person you'd go to then has almost got to be separate from the staff or the manager? The worry is, I'm not going to play. When you go and speak to that individual,

31:54it feels to me as if that individual should almost be part of the players rather than the staff as such. because he's obviously you're speaking to him in confidence no it's a good point and I think that but you're speaking to him in confidence but it's just like you know how the football building is there he sees you walking into that building and the gaffer's like what did he come to see you for a minute course is he alright and players feel that so I think it has to be I think it has to be separate I don't know much which is the best way to go about it but I think it's going to have to be separate I think just for players to feel more comfortable especially like the players I've spoke to recently they're still not feeling they still feel like they're not that comfortable speaking in the club You could see it though.

32:32Can you imagine, Jamie? Especially if you're going for something and the manager needs you. And then you as one of the top players say, my head's not right at the moment. You know what I mean? And the doctor, whoever it is, comes. And this is the scenario I'm trying to paint. So Aaron goes, I don't feel good. But Aaron's been blasting and doing well. And then the doctor goes and said, maybe I don't think you should play him this weekend. And because he's got no physical ailments, that manager's going to be thinking, so how long is this going to happen for? Because if I need him, then all of a sudden he could come in out of the blue and he's not feeling good.

33:07So I can't... Can you imagine, I think it's probably happened before, when a manager says before a game, maybe someone just doesn't feel right. Can you imagine, so instead of saying, oh, he's got a hamstring or he's got something injured, imagine a manager on the press conference saying, Aaron Leonard's not playing today, he doesn't feel right. now you'd be slaughtered wouldn't you you would be slaughtered by support oh there's well he's a fair right do you mean what's wrong with him exactly a week all this comes out and all this everything your manager would almost maybe make a lie up and say you had a hamstring because people would buy that or accept it a little bit more so that's where we are with mental health in terms of players now the reaction would be like imagine social media and that's why players are not doing it and that's the thing and that's why players aren't speaking still so these got better but this is still the worry of players because they're like this comes out everyone's reaction is that still do you know what I mean it's normally a negative reaction rather like if you get out for the season and you get a cruise ship everyone goes that's fine he's out for 12 months but if you go to the dock a mental health issue they can't put a time limit on it they can't put a time frame so like you said when the manager goes well when's he back we're not sure and that's I think it's a big problem in football and that's a worry for managers and that's a worry for players because it doesn't necessarily just affect them for that game or that game that could affect their whole career in terms of managers buying them or playing them because they might see him as an unreliable player.

34:32He might just have this again at a big moment when they need it. And that is the stigma still around it. And I think that is still the worry.

34:45What's good about Sean as well is he's a very good listener. I know I didn't give that to you. You're always kind of chilling and just listening. Yeah, because I think it comes with when I was first at Forest. Because remember, Bradley was quite like, Bradley was just out there. And I was quite shy and reserved. So from a young age, I've always just tried to pay attention to people. And I think now I've got to where I am now, with all the ambassador work that I do, where I'm all over the place, so many different people are speaking to me. So I had to find a way to give everybody the time and be able to have a decent conversation and not make it feel like it's a chore because it's not a chore.

35:23So I've actually improved as I've got older in terms of that. But I just enjoy listening to people and having a decent conversation because it's not always about a small conversation. This person might be saying something small, but in fact it might be deeper rooted. If I'm actually listening, I can kind of give them an answer, maybe as sure as they want it, but it makes sense to them, which helps them out. so I've just I've just always do it now Aaron obviously there's going to be a lot of people watching and listening to this I mean what would you say are the big things that really helped you you know get over the situation you found yourself in speaking out was one of the best things I did going to speak to us like I said it doesn't have to be just a therapist just having them conversations it might be a friend it might be a stranger like literally just speaking out like I said and just looking at yourself take that moment to have a look and actually say how am I feeling how am I actually feeling do you know what I mean we get caught up especially in football it's just focus on the next game focus on the next session just actually take that moment take that 10 minutes maybe a day just to have a look and say actually how am I actually feeling myself how am I feeling within myself and them little moments are so important to monitor like you said sleep's a massive one how are you eating are you hydrated are you exercising even if it means going for a walk these things are just vital for your mental health when you're speaking to people do you feel you're getting that message across are people listening I think so now I've had so many people come up to me, either in the street, in the gym.

36:52I've had so many open, honest, raw conversations. And I feel as if people are listening. Does that make you feel good inside as well, that you've got to a place where they'll come to you because they know your situation? And then when you speak to them and tell them and they leave, does that make you feel good as well? There's no better feeling. Honestly, the messages I've had from speaking and having these conversations and open conversations and speaking with people, there's no better feeling than helping someone. There's no better feeling. because I've been in that place and you won't wish it on anyone.

37:20And if just that conversation could change their life or that moment or their family's life, honestly, it's the best feeling. And I'm saying, honestly, just go and speak to someone. You'll feel so much better. And the main thing for me is to catch it early on. If you catch it when the first sign and maybe you're not sleeping, you're not feeling good, have a little look at yourself. Maybe go and speak with someone then rather than letting it get down to that really difficult start because then it's a long road back. so if you can catch it on the first early warning signs it'll change your life but honestly just have these conversations is one of the best things you can do you know something Aaron just listening to you it's very inspirational listening to you with what you've been through like showing your vulnerability it's something like you say like even just listening to you say please speak to people and I hope people are listening because it's not easy especially in what we do in our world so I can imagine what it's like for guys out there as well in their world.

38:20It must be just as tough to try and seek it out. But for you, my friend, showing that vulnerability and emotion is that. It's inspiring. I appreciate that. I really admire what you've done up to this point, my friend. I really do. Cara Movember is coming up. I've been involved with Gillette and Movember for a number of years now. It's incredibly important to me. I'm really pleased to invite Corey and Ryan here. Corey, OK. How are you, mate? You OK? to chat about how amazing they do every year with November. Don't knock me out to shave them for. I know, but do you want to shave? How are we doing, fellas?

38:53Really good. Really, really good. Nice to be here. The Mo Bros. Good luck I know. Yes. It's getting ready to go. There's nothing yet to go, isn't it? So come on, tell us about the story. Yeah, so we are obviously Corey and Ryan from Motown Bridge Borough. Are you any good? Questionable. We're going to our fifth campaign as a team. Brilliant. And we raise over£30 ,000 from November. So tell us why you support Movember, fellas. I grew out a beard for a Halloween party and I shaved down some moustache as a joke to see how people would react. And one of the people there said to me, how you doing Movember?

39:26Which was kind of like my first exposure to it. And I looked into it and realised it was something I'm quite passionate about and it's quite in line with my own beliefs towards men and their mental health. So I started doing it and it's kind of snowballed into what we do now. Now, everyone will be affected by mental health in their life, whether it's personally themselves or whether it's for a close loved one. How's your mull when you grow it? Are you doing that extravagant mull or is it just like a... It's like you saw before. It's scraggly. Yeah, but it's trying, right? But the main thing, it brings that conversation.

40:00Look, at the end of November, I'll have a terrible tash. I'll walk into the office and go, I thought you were growing a tash this year, so I'm trying. Have you lot got out to do? I'm out here for a while. No, no, no, you're right. I feel like getting in there and doing it for you. How's your bucket list? Do this bit here, James. Does he need some more cream on there? I'm not putting the cream on. So what made you start doing Vambo, Ian? Well, to be honest, it was just, like I said to Jamie, it's the awareness that you're trying to get people to understand, and especially, like I say, in the black community, it's one in four, whereas one in eight.

40:39But, like, again, you see some really good modes. And then when I started seeing them, then obviously got involved with Gillette, like I said, about five years ago, and they've been doing it. So, I mean, just try and do what you can. And I'm like yourself. Honestly, it's pathetic. But I'm not growing it for me. I'm not growing it for looks. So when people say, what are you doing? Yeah. I just say, well, I'm just trying to grow. And then, you know what's really cool? Is that you can take the conversation goals, because then you can tell them why you're trying to do it. So that's where it kind of like, it helps in that respect.

41:09They say, don't they, whatever you grow or say, bro. Yeah, exactly. Regardless, the moustache is just a symbol for the conversation, isn't it? Shave done, boys. So where are we going to the moisturising now? Absolutely. They're looking fresh, aren't they? They're looking well. Nice. Clean. See? Brilliant to be done. Yeah, you know, see? Fantastic. Beautiful. You look like six. Yes. Corey, Ryan, your smoke look fantastic. Fresh. What he's doing for Movember is absolutely fantastic. I think inspirational is making a huge difference. So thank you and well done. Thank you. Appreciate it. Cheers, James.

41:43Cheers, Ian. Hands across. Well done, fellas. Support Corey or Ryan in their Movember journey and find out more about how you can get involved by growing a mole. Nominating a mate or donating at movember.com forward slash Gillette. To celebrate all men and superheroes this month, We're going to have a look at some of our favourite ex, or maybe current footballers' moustaches. Who's the first player that comes to your head when I say moustache? You know, obviously Dave Seaman comes into my head first. Obviously the goalkeeper. Have I killed you? You killed all of us. No, but the thing is, you can still have him, but honestly, Hector Bellerin.

42:29Hector Bellerin had moustache. and the way he carried it off. He just looked like, he looked like, you know what, he looked like a freedom fighter. I'll tell you what he did. I'll tell you what he looked like. He looked like Mickey Pearce when he was glasses. But I've got, I've probably, the recent one, obviously, because I was with the goalie, so I've got to mention that, you know what I mean? But like, if I'm going to go with one, it's going to be Hector Bellerin, man. He looked beautiful in his tash. Yeah? Yeah. Beautiful. You're looking right now, are we, for any great moustaches? Yeah, because I didn't, when we was coming through, weren't a thing, was it?

43:01So what many was there? So we're going back to you guys' era and before. Yeah, but can you imagine in your time as well, James, like obviously in our time I grew up seeing Tasha, Graham Soonis and you know, like you mentioned Ian Rush and then there. Rushie, yeah. But when you guys come for, if there was a player who had just bam, a Tasha. No, we're talking about it. Can you imagine when he gets to the training ground? Yeah, the banner. In Arie, I mean, maybe some of the managers, Del Bosque. Del Bosque. I mean, that was a proper Muzzy, that wasn't it? Rude Hullet's one. Rude Hullet, yeah, they take.

43:34Rude Hullet and Gautoso, he's saying. Gautoso was a good one. What about someone who wanted to grow a Muzzy but couldn't? Me. A proper one. A proper one. I'm the same. It just happened. You've kept that now. You've done that since you were 40. What about Gary Neville trying to grow one? Gary Neville trying to... Yeah, but he's going through, he's like, Bex is my best mate face. Yeah, yeah, yeah. See pictures in that time He's kind of giving smolder as well He's kind of like You know with his hair all flicked The best one There was a banner At Anfield for Gary Neville What does it say? Grow a proper mussy You scruff

44:11Jamie is there any way We can get that clip So people can see the picture You scruff Yeah Right That's all we've got time for So just want to say A massive thank you To Sean and Aaron And Corey and Ryan Yes Also for joining us on this Overlap and Gillette special, Football Hero special, I should say. So make sure you remember to visit movember.com forward slash Gillette for more information on how to sign up and get involved. Beautiful, James. Thanks, Risi.

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