Anthony Gordon: Newcastle Ambition, Meditation & England Hopes

0:00The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today. If you play sideways ball or a back would pass back to your keeper or a defender, you can hear them, they're behind me. I'm like, they're brutal, you know what I mean?

0:42Honestly, it's unbelievable. The ball's changed, lost that game. I think your ambition to further your career is, to be fair, what I'm interested in. The idea that it's not easy for a local lad to leave a club. Some of the lads used to have everything on. Jackets, pop-ups. Yeah, some people in the summer... I used to wear gloves, actually. I used to wear gloves. Yeah, gloves. Cos your hands get close to the face. Yeah, I used to wear gloves. I've seen Scalzi the other day complaining about the lads at the huddle. You see that?

1:14What's the point where you think this is getting difficult? I've got one goal and one purpose, and not and will ever get in the way of that. My ambition is to be at the very top of football, and I couldn't do that where I was. Is that not quite sort of like intense? I can't sleep though. It's like I just remember all the bad things. Which defender do you dread coming up against? None. None? No. I've never said that before on any media outlet or things. What about the meditation and the visualisation? No one knows that side to me. Ultimately I'm so desperate to get to where I need to get to. My ambition takes control and when I get opportunities like Newcastle, I was never ever going to say no.

1:54I can't get over how tall you are about that. Honestly, I could have literally put a bet on that you were going to say that, I swear. Everybody says it. Anyway, quickfire questions. Let's do it. You're the player of the tournament in England London 21's European Championship, so here are 21 quickfire questions. Let's do it. The best item of clothing you own? I'm going to say this jacket at the minute because I'm crazy. I love a jacket, especially with a zip. Hoodie? Yeah, hoodie. Hoodie jacket. Right. How many pairs of shoes do you have? Do you have a lot? Trainers? Yeah, I'm a sneakerhead. Sneaker.

2:29And we get a lot free anyway, so they just end up piling up. Why did I not have a better sponsor when I was playing football? I think my sponsors were Pony and Deodora. I don't even know who they are, Gary, honestly. You don't know who I am or Pony or Deodora? No, they've stepped up the game massively. One thing that you can't live without? Your phone. Are you? Honestly. Are you on your phone all the time? So much. I'm the ultimate iPad kid. That's what the name is nowadays. Do you know what I did last night? It's unbelievable, right? So I negotiated. I've got two girls, 14 and 15 years of age.

3:03They just started to go on social media. But I had to put parental restriction. Yeah, I've seen that. 30 minutes a day, Monday to Friday, and then unlimited at weekends. I think that would work. That's quite harsh. Honestly, I couldn't live like that. The oldest said, no, that's not right. Do you know my thing? I need noise. So I'll have like the overlap on all different kinds of podcasts. I'm not actually so much listening. It's just there. The noise is just there. Constant noise. Yeah, constant noise. Jeez. Yeah, it's a strange habit. Wow. Favourite meal? I love Japanese. Japanese? Yeah, like a sushi or sweet and sour chicken, that type of food.

3:42Sweet and sour chicken is Chinese. I know, but you can get it in a Japanese. Have you got a little sort of like multiple sort of like you get everything in one? Yeah. Where would that be in Newcastle? There's not many, to be honest. No. It could do with a few more. Favourite book? Winning by Tim Grover. So he's Michael Jordan's ex-trainer. Right. And maybe the time that I read it that it probably meant the most to me. When did you read it? It was the time that I was coming through at Everton. And I just needed a bit of experience, a bit of guidance on how to perform at a high level consistently.

4:17And it just gave me the platform and the ideas to deal with the tough times and how to deal with them, I think. What in that book would you say you call upon as being things that you use now? Absolutely, Everton. I'd love you to go and read it, but I think one thing is he talks about winning. Sort of like this devilish figure who's trying to take everything from you, where you have to give everything to it, and there's no guarantee you're getting anything in return, if that makes sense. Do you think a lot about this? You're really into it, aren't you? Yeah, I read a lot, and I'm into the psychology of definitely sports people, but people in general.

4:55I love the psychology. Do you know when I think about you? Do you know something? Obviously, there was all that sort of stuff when you left Everton, and obviously, I can imagine it, understanding that a local player, you know, living in the city growing up there but you must have a single-minded ambitious sort of like belief because I think that that takes real courage to want to sort of go for it because it must have been hard that at the time when you were going through that Yeah, it's much harder than people perceive it to be because from the outside looking in they just think you want to leave, that's it, it's done No, it's of course difficult but ultimately I'm so desperate to get to where I need to get to that my ambition takes control and when I get opportunities like Newcastle, I was never, ever going to say no.

5:41When I looked at it at the time, and I think a few people thought this, I say this with the greatest respect because we can say it now with the fact that what you've done this season and the goals and the assists. Yeah. But there was almost like a bit of a, why did Chelsea want Anthony Gordon for this level of money? Why do, did you feel that that was the sort of perception at the time? I've got to have quick five questions here because to be fair, it feels like we're in that moment of discussing it. But did you get that feeling as well? Yeah. they must have spotted the potential that was there.

6:07But you never doubted that, did you, in terms of what you were doing? That definitely was the perception. I remember seeing a couple of things saying that, but I don't care about that. My self-belief is so strong and always has been. I don't know where I get it from, but it's been like that since I was a kid. So other people's opinions never mattered. But what I will say is they were probably right in what they were saying. If you look at my goal output at that time, I don't think it was good enough for the amount of money. but today's football I think you're sort of paying for potential When you say about that belief and you've always had it where does that come from?

6:38I mean to be fair the city that you live in you have to have belief don't you? I think you know I always think when I go to Liverpool the people have a real spirit and a fight in them does it come from the city or the people you sort of grew up with? A million percent it comes from where I come from because you have to be a really strong world and a strong character to survive there I think and even stronger to sort of expand out and really progress in the world outside of Liverpool. So that definitely helps. Like I said, I don't know where it comes from, but no matter what's happened in my life, I've never once doubted myself.

7:11When I think of, say, a winger, I always think of them as being, or a forward player, actually, a young forward, I always think of them as being maybe a little bit erratic in the game, a little bit erratic in the mind, a bit more immature than defenders usually. When I'm speaking to you, I have the feeling that you're quite methodical in your thinking. just the thing about reading the books picking up the leadership messages would that be fair to say that you're massively into that? Very fair, that's what honestly my whole life is sort of like that I'm into, like I said before, psychology books, just constantly getting better and I think people don't get that because you think Liverpool, your typical scouser I'm used to working next to a different type of person from Liverpool he's not quite into psychology and books I'm joking no but I think the best word is probably a bit misunderstood but yeah I'm definitely into all that stuff it mesmerises me because I actually interviewed Trent a few weeks ago I think misunderstood is a really good word in terms of you have a perception of someone don't you of what they are how they'll be and I'm here now with you for the first 15-20 minutes that I've ever met you in my life and the articulate nature of how you sort of communicate the determination I shouldn't have doubt I can't doubt it you play professional football at highest level and what you're doing is unbelievable but I would have thought it would be more instinctive than thought out, you know what I mean?

8:31Like I said to you before, I don't actually mind people having that perception because I'm comfortable in myself to know that I just need the opportunity to meet you to be able to change it. I know once people meet me and they be in my company that I can change it. And I think having a stereotype is not too... We're all human, we all do it. So I don't think it's a bad thing. And you see yourself as being a potential captain. It's too early for that, but you see yourself as being someone who can inspire people or lead? I was speaking to some close ones about this recently because I feel that my end calling after football may have something to do with that, whether that be through football, through management or down the psychology route.

9:10I think that may be my end goal. I'm not too sure yet, but like I said, I'm so invested in that sort of stuff that it surely has to come to fruition at some point. As a footballer, I'm more a lead by example rather than a big speaker or I'm a bit... You're quite quiet in the issue. Yeah, I'm very quiet in the dressing room. In terms of how you prepare for a match, how do you prepare for a match in terms of bringing those thoughts together to make sure that you're in that tunnel absolutely ready to go? My preparation for a match will start two days before. I have fully set... I mean, three days will be set out to the minute.

9:46I thought that was only me. No, no, that is me as well, honestly. Thursday night, I would switch on. Yeah, yeah. No, I'm fully switched on. I try not to think too much about the game, but it's more so I do a lot of meditation, visualisation, a lot of goals. Visualising what's going to happen in the game? Yeah, so that if a chance comes, I feel like I've already lived it. And all I have to do then is just be present and actually trust me, trust my ability rather than overthink it. And in terms of two days before you start visualising what the game is, is that your opponent as well? Or is that just your particular game and what you're going to do?

10:19No, it'll be my opponent. Thinking about what they're going to like. Because I usually know what he's going to do, what his habits will be. If I'm playing against a full-back, he's running. It's more so getting myself comfortable with, actually, if he doesn't want to around me, I'm going to put myself in that position of being tired and getting back now, so that in the game, it's a lot easier. Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes sense, but I'm trying to work out where this sort of deep thought and this... It's unbelievable, really. I'm amazed. In a good way. Everyone thinks that football players turn up, it's quite instinctive, the coach, they have to be instructed I don't think they ever think that there's that level of deep thought and preparation going into this level yeah some footballers can do that I just can't I prefer to be my confidence comes from my preparation I don't know where it comes from because I wouldn't say anyone around me is anything like that they're not really into that stuff it's not come from a member of your family or come from a friend or coach I couldn't say anyone around me is like that I just love learning stuff and throughout me my growing up years I've took a sort of are liking to learn about psychology.

11:21The meditation and visualisation, what is that for you? It's not how you perceive it to be, where you're sat on your legs crossed like this. I'm thinking you've just got this vision of you sort of like sat there, sort of like breathing. No.

11:48I was doing quickfire questions five minutes ago. I'm fucking on the longest fire quickfire in the world. I'm absolutely mesmerised in a way that I've never heard a football player talk actually with this level of sort of depth and thought and preparation, I don't think at any point in their career, let alone at sort of someone who's at your stage in your career. Yeah, there may be people who do the same thing. There probably is loads who maybe just haven't spoke about it. But like I said, some footballers like to think less and just turn up and play and trust their instincts. But I just love the mindset of getting myself in that place before I'm already there.

12:25and I actually heard Salah talk about it and that's where I took even more interest because I see him as an absolute machine, a winner and people like that, you're not going to go far wrong following what they do. And I got to 25, 26 before I felt, unbreakable is the wrong word, but where I felt mentally strong enough to cope with everything. Do you feel like you're already at that point now whereby I've got coping mechanisms to deal with anything that comes my way? So that's exactly what I'm trying to explain. it's more of a coping mechanism for how to handle pressure of playing. And that's where the meditation and the visualisation just allows me to react from a higher perspective than my own emotions.

13:09Because being emotional, it's not the best. It's not good in sports. Talk to me then, the meditation and visualisation, I know what it is obviously, but what is that for you? So are you sat in a dark room? Are you sort of, is there music? What is that setting like? It's not how you perceive it to be, where you're sat on your legs crossed. I'm thinking you've just got this vision of you sort of like sat there, sort of like breathing. No. No. It's just sitting in a room on your own, like no noise if possible, on a chair, closing your eyes, getting in touch with your body through breathing, and then just letting the game run.

13:47So I start arriving at the stadium, going into the warm-up, through the game, and then ultimately trying to see how I want to feel after the game, if that makes sense. So I'll try and get that feeling, and then what I'm going to have to do in the game to achieve it. How do you cope with, during a game, if what you've visualised hasn't happened or hasn't occurred? How do you deal with that? Because sometimes things happen in a game, don't they? You might get the red card, you might get the yellow card, you might miss a chance. how would that sort of sit with you during a match? Mistake management in a match, if you like.

14:22Yeah. Well, that's the key to football, is how you react. It's the key to life, how you react from mistakes. Yeah. So, for me, if I'm making mistakes, it's just about, again, forgetting my emotions, because your emotions try and lead you down one way. Yeah. And it's normally the wrong way. So, it's trying to put them to one side. Yeah. And just snapping back to, actually, what do I need to do? Where's my man? And do that for me breathing and stuff. Right, in the game? Yeah, yeah. Have you ever seen me deep breathing? Now you know. I'm thinking he looks knackered there. No, no, no. Or maybe I am actually.

14:52Depends what I'm full back I'm playing against. I can imagine then that, again, as a young football player, I would watch some of my clips back after a game to try and coach myself what could I do better. Are you quite methodical in terms of your post-match assessment of what you've done? How does that look? I watch the game. You're not a winner in the Euros. You're not. I don't remember anything like that. Have you visualised scoring the winner in the Euros, by the way? I have, actually. I have. I have, plenty of times. So I have to watch the game straight after the game. Well, you go and watch the game?

15:26Yeah. We get on our phones now, so it's not too difficult. Alright, OK. So you sent straight to your phone? Yeah, yeah. But it's just more so... Is that not quite intense? You want to recover and rest? I can't sleep, though. It's like I just remember all the bad things, and the good things but mostly the bad things, and it's just watching it and then seeing sort of why I've done it. Does that make sense? You're intense, aren't you? Yeah, very intense. Massively intense. Me, missus, will tell you that, I think. So how are you at home then with your fiancée? How would you be like to live with? I mean, I thought I was bad.

16:00I thought I was intense. Yeah. Not to blow my own horn, but I think, again, keeping in line with the being present stuff, I think I'm very relaxed because as soon as I walk through the door, I just think to myself football's gone and now I have to put them first now within that I'll be focused on my hydration and like she'll know there's certain parts of the evening where I have to just switch off or I'll be Do you eat at a certain time? Yeah yeah so routine so routine it's unbelievable would you like that? Yeah I have to be like that I mean to be fair me and my brother were sort of mocked for many years for taking our food on the train or on the coach so we had to eat at a certain time Every day before a game, two days before a game, we had to eat the same foods.

16:44If I didn't do, I couldn't stand in the tunnel and think that I prepared for the game properly. It was almost like a routine, I suppose, almost like my preparation. I know players have that, but I switched on a Thursday night. I would start thinking about the game, start thinking about the opponent, but never to the levels that you're talking about. I think, like I said before, your preparation there is giving you confidence in the game. Because when it gets hard, you will end up relying on that. So I'm the same, I'm so routine. We just went on holiday, got a couple of days off, so went to Spain.

17:16And even then, I have to eat at the same times, just because if the routine gets messed up, it kills me. Do you assess your fitness stats after every game as well? You measure in that type of your game as well. What would you run per game, sort of total distance? Total distance wouldn't be anything crazy. It'd be around 11k. 11k. But my high speed running will be sort of 16, 1700, 1800. which is like very high. I think I got the fourth highest. I think 900 was my sort of regular. I'm a good sprinter though, that's what I'm good at. So I'd be quite poor if I wasn't reaching them numbers. So you sprint 1800 metres every game on average?

17:52I think on average I'd probably say 1600. But I think this year against Kyle Walker. Yeah. 1800. Yeah 1800. We went man for man. So I was like sort of. So you were a man marking him or he was a man marking you? it was meant to be him marking me and it ended up the other way Pep obviously made the adjustment to put him high he pulled me right back and honestly me and him we're just racing up and down the line the whole game the footy match is going on and me and him we're just running I'll go back onto the quick five questions but I'm I'm blown away really by the level of thought I know you're obviously a professional football player so I know that to get to where you've got to but I am blown away by the sort of the depth of it it's unbelievable it's I mean it'd be unique I would reckon I've never said that before on any media outlet or things.

18:40What about the meditation and visualisation? Yeah, so I think it's good for people to hear as well. Yeah, I mean... Again, no one knows that side to me. I think the club were very understanding with how I am. It's like, say, I was standing there, you were running at me. You ran just there. Yeah. Either way, I feel like I'm quick enough to beat you, so... It doesn't really matter to me.

19:15Right. I love it when conversation is just completely... It's more natural, isn't it? Do you know when we do that? Do you know something? We have a thing, but I literally just have to go where I'm... I think it's best. I love that, you know, the stick to football. I actually like the start of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's just like, you're talking as you would. But it's like this now. I always say to them, film this. It's the best conversation sometimes. Let's stick to football. It partly comes from, because I can't host, I can't present, I just can't. So basically, I just said, look, just get the cameras rolling, and then I'll just go, right.

19:48Yeah, the right. You always do that. It's good. We should go back out.

19:59Does this actually, have they trusted us to come in here and not nick anything out of that sort of sandwich and chocolate and stuff. Oh, sorry, he's there. Sorry, mate. I'm thinking that's very trustworthy, that, just letting us out of the door. Do you know what this reminds me of? Where does this remind me of where we've done the overlap before? Yeah, the exact same type cafe. The one with Tyson Fury? Yeah. You should watch it. I haven't watched that one. It's about two years old. It's a good one, isn't it? It's a good one. He talks a lot about mental health. Yeah, he was good. He rocked up. No one with him.

20:38He was in a, what was it, what car was it? Ferrari? It was a Ferrari. So you imagine a Ferrari on the floor like this. He fucking gets out of it like this. Climbs out of it. Walks over. I want a coffee. So we had a coffee and that was it. He just went off and on. It was unbelievable, really. The thing with that sport, you almost have to be delusional in the fact that like this fella cannot knock me out, do you know what I mean? So you end up, same with McGregor, you end up... Did you box when you were younger? I love boxing now still. You love boxing now? Yeah, if I do any training, I don't do weight training at all, ever.

21:12You don't do weight training? Never. Why is that? I just think... Can we shoot this? Why don't you weight... Because I always thought when I was coaching with England, I mean, we weight train, but then when I was in England, The lads seem to have programs that are trained. The lads at the club do do it. I just, one, my game is not really reliant on it. And I just think we do enough running, adding actual weight onto your muscles and your body, it's just going to put you under more stress, resulting in more chance of injury. Do you think it would take away some of your agility, the way in which you're sort of nimble?

21:49Do you think it would take away some of that, getting a bit bulkier? Yeah, it'd probably make me stronger. I'd probably actually get quicker, more explosive. but with sort of I might get more injuries so it's not worth that end result for me again that's like a what that says to me is one that you sort of take in charge of your own sort of programme because most players including myself you know you train you be told what to do you say right you're in the gym for your weights and we all trod off we all get our programme and we have to do what we're told to do so what happens at the end of the session when the players go into the gym and sort of what do you say no it's not me I'm not doing exactly that I just I go for lunch eat my food I think the club are very understanding with how I am because physio treatment and gym I don't I don't go in the gym or I don't go in the treatment I just do what I need to do I do a lot of stretching a lot of yoga a lot of that side of sort of the gym but actual weight and treatments not for me when you say treatments you mean like sort of back stretching or manipulation or sort of like that type of stuff with treatments Yeah, so some lads in there every morning, like getting flushes or getting their back stretched.

22:58Oh, you don't have massages? None, none. The only thing I do is stretch. I stretch before training, after training, and that's it. What do you do for recovery then after a game? I do a lot of recovery. I'd say that's more, my gym stuff is more recovery based. Right. So I do a lot of what bike, the normal tech, the squeezy legs, if you've seen them. Yeah. Love ice bath. Yeah. And pool and stretch, yeah. so it's more sort of flexibility and just getting my legs in a good place rather than trying to add to it so what would Eddie say is that Eddie that would say yeah he's okay he doesn't need to because what would the senior players what would the rest of the players think because I'd be like if it was me I'm going in the gym and I'm thinking no we're all going in the gym yeah yeah do you know what I mean I'd naturally think that yeah although I have to say Scholes didn't go in the gym I don't think that much didn't either did he he's just thinking balls I'm just remembering actually he's outside pinging balls actually on the pitch but I'm thinking yeah maybe he didn't go in the gym that much.

23:54That's another thing, a lot of the time when the session finishes and some lads will go in the gym, I stay out all the time just finishing or doing extra bits usually because I just feel like training's ended too quickly and I'm not ready to go in. So that's another part of it but like I said before the gaffer and the gym staff, they're firing me doing it. But you sat down and gone through to them and said this is why I don't want to do it. Yeah, they know I don't like it, they know I just like to do what what makes me feel good and you know this season I've been injury free that's what you would so you know it's worked I mean I think to be fair at United there was a massive culture of staying out after and working on the thing individually that you needed to work on so for me it could be my head in it could be 1v1 defending what are you sort of at the moment sort of when you're out on the training pitch after training you're doing that individual one on one what are you doing what part of your game are you improving what are you thinking at the moment is the one thing I always do around the box finishing and crosses right but as the season's gone on so now I'm cutting in and I've scored a couple of goals now I feel like defenders are reading it so I'm finding ways now maybe a little feint or a skill move to go back on the outside yeah or even a chop to go again yeah and I've done it in the past couple of matches and the gaff has been really pleased with me to be fair because he's like actually you've been working on that yeah and I'm quite innovative and thoughtful so I bring it to him a lot of the time but of course he brings a lot to me as well but on the pitch I know what could work so I'm just trying them things trying to get better Would I be right in saying that your best your favoured position because obviously you play all across the front line you even play number 10 but would you say that off the left is the place where you think that's where I'm most comfortable Most comfortable yeah but I think it probably depends on who you ask a lot of people prefer me in all different places because they've seen me play striker left right 10 left 8 I've actually played at some point.

25:50I played number nine in the Euros for England. I absolutely loved it. But I'd say left probably makes you feel the most comfortable. So you're running at me. When I played right back, which is quite a long time ago now, the majority of players, 99 % of players I played against were left-footed. And when I played against a right-footed player, I always used to feel more comfortable. Really? I always used to feel more comfortable. Like Robert Perez, who was a right-footed left winger. He was a brilliant player, but I used to think, he's always going to go back inside so I'd almost wait for him and say I know he's never going to go there I can't visualise him crossing it with his left foot even if you think of Robert Perez now are you in that moment or are you in this moment now thinking about how you sort of go that way because they'll show you that way and then you can get that left foot or even it, is that what you're working on a lot at the moment yeah and I play sort of on what he gives me so if he's going to block the line because he thinks I'm quick, then I'll go inside.

26:48Yeah. And vice versa, if he blocks inside, then I'll just take him to the line. But also it's the little things where it's like go inside one, two, and then I'm taking him to the line. Yeah. So it's just constantly different ways of trying to beat him. It's not just one-by-one direct all the time. It's trying to link with other people. What was most difficult for me when a player was running at me, let's say I was standing there, you were running at me, is if you ran directly just there. Yeah. I always say, run directly there. Yeah. Because at some point, I'm thinking... You have to stick that leg.

27:20Yeah. And it's like that one, or I'm going... And it's like sometimes I think wingers make it easy... Yeah. ...for a full-back, because they'll go there too early, or they'll go there too early. So if you chop it inside too early, I can just go like that. Yeah. But if you take it right up close to my leg here, I'm sure... And you do that quite a bit. You aim for that leg, don't you? You're really directing goal for people, don't you? Yeah. so that's another thing my angle of approach on a 1v1 a lot of it is the same where I think if I come at you on your left leg left leg yeah you're either going to have to commit to one side at some point yeah and then it's how fast can I react to that does that make sense yeah and either way I feel like I'm quick enough to beat you so it doesn't really matter to me thanks for that I've just shown you inside to a load I've just shown you pass me on I've just shown you inside to a load of other bodies I've stayed with the left back that's overlapping That's what happens a lot, to be honest.

28:13No, but it fascinates me. In terms of sort of, you're on 10 goals, Premier League. Yes. Eight assists. Yeah. Where do you want to get to? I mean, it's a silly question, really. Where do you see, because obviously you look at numbers now and everyone seems to measure numbers. Yeah. And you're hitting really good numbers. Where would you like those numbers to be in the future? It's difficult, really, because as much as I do love goal setting, I've never really put a set number on goals. Because, let's say, I put 10 at the start of the year. Yeah. If I get to 10 now, I want it to 15. So it just never stops.

28:44I don't think you can put a goal on that. I just want to keep doing things leading up to the goal, which results in the goal, and that's the important thing. But I think to be a top winger, numbers do matter. It's all that matters nowadays. So you're talking 15 goals, 10 assists, if you want to be a top player, I think, on a consistent basis. As a minimum. Eddie's so relentless. They're putting that much pressure on you to succeed. I belong here. This is my level. I don't think I've ever met a young player that's as openly ambitious as you are. Have you always been like that?

29:44Talk to me about England. Did you enjoy it? Yeah, I loved it. I loved it. I've always said I just needed that in to get in because getting in has gone so hard because of the players they've got in there. I've always just wanted that opportunity to show what I can do because I'm comfortable in myself to know in that environment. I feel like I'll do well. And I felt like that was the case.

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30:38I felt so comfortable there. And when I got there, I was actually, I belong here. This is, this is my level. It's interesting that, because I used to think that the first training session, if there's a new player comes in, everyone's watching. It's obviously some lads know you. They're all watching you thinking, what's he like? You know what I mean? Did you feel in that first training session straight away, you thought, right, okay, I feel comfortable? Yeah, but I didn't really care. I was so on it. I was so just determined to do well that session because like you said it's football and a human everyone will be looking at the new lads coming in it's true though you have I mean people think obviously you've got to impress yourself but you have got to impress your teammates haven't you as well you're going in there there's 20 odd other players there is that pressure on you to impress them and make them feel like oh wow you know what I mean it's you have to earn respect that's the biggest thing in football or it's an opinion based sport no one's going to respect you if you don't earn the respect but it's a pride thing if you can prove to yourself and feel comfortable in yourself everyone's opinion will sort of align with yours and you mentioned obviously like the competition you're in a part of the pitch where obviously Phil Foden can play Marcus Rashford can play Jack Grealish can play I probably just named three there's probably four or five do you have an edge in the sense that you can play all across the front line I mean some of them can as well but you can play sort of like say eight you can play nine you can play obviously on the left and you can play on the right.

32:04Do you think that's something that will be a factor that could go your way? Obviously, Gareth's got to pick a squad in the next month or two. I think so. I think versatility in a tournament is massive. Like you said, a lot of them lads can do that as well, but I feel I have done it a lot this year, especially in big games, and I think that matters. I've done it in big games where I've played out of position and still performed. What's out of position? Centre forward? Yeah, centre forward. On the right, even, probably, out of position because the left is probably my main position. I've played number 10 sometimes.

32:36Proving in big games that I can, no matter where I play, I can still perform. Having that trust from the manager and the players around me, I think that's a massive thing. What's the hardest part for you playing centre-forward? Definitely back to goal. Back to goal, having it played into from distance. Yeah, because obviously my build is not, I'm not built for that. But playing there with England and then sometimes this year, I've found ways to manipulate that so I'm coming off more on an angle rather than straight down the line. And I've found that because I'm quick, defenders don't really want to...

33:09If I come off on an angle, they don't really want to engage because 1-1-2 and I'm in. It only took me a couple of games and I started thinking, actually, let me try this, let me try that. And my understanding of the game got even better. What did you find when you were with England? What was the sort of... Because obviously I played with England for many years and the spirit was talked about a lot as being a potential issue, but the spirit in the last five, six years, Gareth's created an environment of a great culture. Did you find that when you went in there? That was the most surprising thing because, like I said before, I knew I would do well on the pitch.

33:41Off the pitch, I was nervous, of course, like you would be. Going to meet a load of new people. Even shaking hands at the first meet-up, it's a bit awkward. It's awkward, isn't it? Or you think it's going to be? And honestly, it wasn't. The culture they've managed to create, the staff, is so impressive. and me, Cobby and Jared all said the same thing they were like actually the lads are lovely, the staff are lovely the staff go out the way constantly to make sure you feel like you've been there for ages and that definitely helped me in the camp Did you feel that when you came to Newcastle and started working with Eddie?

34:16Yeah, the lads were class helped me settle in really quickly but Eddie's so relentless so the first part is actually harder because he's putting that much pressure on you to succeed and get you to where he needs you to be. The demands are big. Yeah, the demands are massive. Work ethic. Yeah. Every session, if you daydream it for one second, he somehow manages to see it. He's screaming at me like, oh. So it's definitely two different approaches, but both work. And ultimately, like I said, Eddie's were hard at the start, but they got me to where I am now. You made a big decision, and I say to leave the city, the club where you have grown up and that city as well which is passionate about you're passionate about Liverpool you you know it's a city that's great strength is its spirit its passion it's determination and it's togetherness so to actually leave there for a local ad I would say it's probably tougher than any other city in the UK how was that for you at the time in terms of just obviously you you received a relentless amount of sort of attention scrutiny whatever you want to call it.

35:23How was it? Because obviously I know you're mentally strong, we've talked about that outside, but what's the points where you think this is getting difficult? Yeah, the whole process was difficult, but I think you said I'm mentally strong, but I think that's played a massive part in me being who I am now. So I'm very thankful, but it was so hard at the time. Like you said, Liverpool's biggest unity is everyone being together, sort of scousers looking after scousers, and for someone to leave that environment, no one's going to like it, do you know what and rightly so, but ultimately I'm too ambitious to turn down the opportunity that was presented to me.

35:59Newcastle, only going one way and looking from the outside, they were absolutely flying I think they were fourth when I was just signing so it was a no-brainer. My ambition is to be at the very top of football wherever that looks like and I couldn't do that where I was. How it ended, it didn't have to be like that did it really? The statement was a bit I don't even know what you'd call the statement that they put out, to be honest with you, it was small. It was almost as if they were playing to the crowd, you know, Anthony wants to leave, we've let him go, but almost a bit like that, discarding you a little bit, and obviously you at the time were getting a lot of criticism.

36:37It didn't have to be like that, did it, surely? No, it definitely didn't. It sounds like they needed the money as well, looking at it as well. Yeah, that's the thing, a lot of what you see on the media is club-driven, and I didn't really care too much to change the perspective because I'm very comfortable in myself and how it ended and ultimately I got what I wanted. I joined Newcastle. I did want to leave, but also the club did have to sell me. Yeah, the way it played out was like I was desperate to leave and it was never really the case. I just wanted to fulfil my ambitions and ultimately never bothered too much about wanting to change people's minds if they believe what they've read.

37:15That's fine by me. it's interesting because I listen to you talk now and I think that there's a perception that young people were stronger, were more determined, they worked harder 25 years ago or 40 years ago and I often sort of disagree with that because when I speak to, when I see footballers, when I speak to you today one, we wouldn't have been able to speak like this in an interview at your age, just wouldn't, it's a fact you know I'm in the media now but at the age of your age I would never have been able to do that and also So your ambition and what you've done takes great courage. I don't think players back then would have found it as easy to do that.

37:51Do you feel that inner strength and spirit that nothing's going to stop me on this journey? I'm going where I'm going and I'm going to get to where I'm going to get to? Yeah, similar to what I was telling you before. I don't know where it comes from, but I've had that since I was four or five years old when I was rolling with the ball. Nottingham's ever been able to knock me off my path. I've got one goal and one purpose and not and will ever get in the way of that. I'd agree that young players today, they're exposed to more. So, of course, we're going to be mentally stronger at a younger age.

38:23And like you said before, we're probably better in interviews because we have to do them earlier. So that's no sort of shame on the players of past generations. But I think we're just exposed to more through social media and stuff. So, yeah, take the positives from that, though. Right, question six. Quick fire. Back to the quick fire.

38:48Favourite sport aside from football? NFL, no question. NFL? Yeah, absolutely love it. We had JJ Watt on Sticks. I know, I watched it. You watched it? I'm halfway through it, but I've watched the start. I was buzzing when you had him on. Yeah. Just a little change up. Yeah, Roy's a big fan of him. Yeah, he likes NFL, doesn't he? So where did that come from then? Just sort of self-taught me way through knowing how the game works. Right. It probably started with players. so looking at players and they have big profiles and followed it through that and then now I'll probably tell you anything you want about it.

39:18Wow, so you're into it properly. Yeah, massively, yeah. Football hero growing up? Gerrard. Steven Gerrard? Yeah. Coming from Liverpool he's like a god in Liverpool. Good player. Excellent. Unbelievable player. Which defender do you dread coming up against? None.

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40:12None? No. Any that you think it's going to be a hard day? Yeah, Kyle Walker. Every time, just because I know it's just constantly going to be a hard game. I wouldn't say dread because I look forward to the competition and I actually look forward to them games the most. I usually want to perform my best, but there's another part of me that thinks there's a lot of running involved here. I think that's, obviously I watch Kyle a lot and he's played in my position. I think, I wish I'd just had an ounce of his pace. Yeah. It's scary, isn't it? Yeah. You can't really knock it past him and beat him for pace because he's got a three-yard start on you anyway.

40:44How do you look at an opponent that's strong, he's rapid, he's experienced? How would you look at that and think, how do I win this duel against him? Well, first of all, I'd look at the mental side of it and try and beat him psychologically. What would that be? As in, if he's running past me forward ways and I've got to run back, I will match him so that he knows as well as me he's in a tough game, regardless of if I play well or not. he's going to have a hard game so that side of it plays into it but also it's just figuring out ways to beat different players obviously you can't look past them so one twos off balance maybe take him off balance he plays very high because of the way they play so it's catching them in that transition against City you don't get many moments so it's just about picking them at the right times if you were a footballer what would you have been?

41:35honestly football's always been it's just always been like a tunnel vision I think it'd be easy for me to say It definitely wouldn't have been the case, but now I'd probably go into the psychology of sports, or maybe even people, but definitely along them lines. But as a kid, it definitely wouldn't have been that. Best friend in football? I'd say I've got three. Curtis Jones, Tommy Doyle, Elliot Anderson. Mixed bag there. Some club international. So where's Curtis Jones International? Yeah, Tommy as well. Tommy International. Elliot Club. Elliot Anderson. I watched him quite a bit when he was at Bristol Rovers.

42:10he was some player by the way there yeah he is he's a top player he's done well in Newcastle yeah he's done really well but he's just as a young player he's just finding his feet within the games he's been top in training for a while but he's just finding his feet so three best mates I wish I could in three winner in a cup final for Newcastle or score with England at a major tournament that's a hard one because you either have to upset your country or your fans I always think they're a bit difficult then based on the question I'm going to go with a Newcastle goal for the winner I think when we win a trophy here, it's going to be absolutely crazy.

42:44And I think that team will forever be legends within the club. But if it was to score a winner in the Euros, the answer changes. I like the way you say that, when we win a trophy in Newcastle. You're absolutely sure you're going to? Yeah, one million percent. Honestly, I felt like we would this year. But our cup draws were absolutely mental. Actually, I thought it was a bit of banter at the end of it. When we got City in the last one, I was like, oh my God. Right, best goal you've ever scored? I'd probably say the City one. City? Yeah. Just the magnitude of it, they were winning. Yeah. It was to sort of retake the lead at St James'.

43:22Yeah. I might have missed one out there, but that was my favourite one. Biggest phobia? I'd probably say spiders. I've got a phobia, but I don't really like them. No. Go spiders. No, I don't think I am a fan of spiders. Karaoke, do you sing? Karaoke song? No, not at all. Possibly the worst singer to ever live. If I was going to go, I would go Backstreet Boys. I want it that way. Just because I do that in my initiation songs. Where do you initiation songs? At Newcastle. Did you go up with England as well? No, we didn't do them at England, thank God. But I've done them at Newcastle. I've done them at five times.

43:54Who's leading that at Newcastle, saying you've got to get up and do initiation? Tinnors. So he's a staff member. Right. And he absolutely loves anything along them lines where it's a bit of a banter. He loves it. Favourite food, cheat meal? Chinese. I'm Chinese as well. Yeah, Chinese. You cannot go wrong, can you? I matched off on tonight, you know. I'm going to get back to Manchester. Chinese. Oh, God. Right, most famous name in your phone book? Frank Lampard. Yeah. Yeah, it's a big dog, isn't it? Yeah, big, yeah. Big name, famous name. Best and worst subject at school? Best. Pfft. Struggling there.

44:31P.E. Why does every footballer say P.E.? We all say P.E. I got A and P.E. We all get A and P.E. We're all the same. We're science Science No good No no Too much Three dream guests To have at dinner I love this question You know And I've always got answers And now I'm on the spot I'd go Maradona I would go Donald Trump Is that just for the weirdness? Just for pure Like I'd just love to meet him And see how he is Yeah Like bizarre Like he's so bizarre as a person Yeah I just want to Just want to sit down with him And yeah Ricky Gervais I'd like to see Maradona and Ricky Gervais with Donald Trump as well.

45:09Imagine that. And then me. You've put a cocktail of like, I actually like - The craziest three people ever. Yeah. Ricky Gervais is a big one. I don't know why I haven't put him first. I absolutely love him. Yeah, I think I'd like to say that. So funny. Best piece of advice you've been given? Best bit of advice was from Leighton Baines. He said it to me very young. I was about 16, 17 and everything. And he said, never get too high, never get too low. And I always remembered it. I don't even think he said it in like a... Advice way. Yeah, I think he just said it and I took it with me. It's good advice, that.

45:42Yeah. Good advice. Your favourite boxer? Right now? Canelo. I love boxing. Did you box when you were growing up? Because every... I play, obviously, Carragher now. I mean, I'm not stereotyping by any stretch of the imagination. But the first thing we have to do is be able to defend our side. You know what I mean? So Rooney's boxer. Carragher's a boxer. He's still going into the gym now. Yeah, on the overlap, you've got to do them, you've got to text me into the gym. So you must have gone to a gym or you must have... Yeah, it's just a natural thing as a kid going up in the pool, you just go to the gym with your mates and box.

46:14I'm very good at boxing still to this day, and I do a lot of boxing. Because we used to do boxing training after going to the gym. Yeah. I used to like it, I used to like it for a full back. Yeah. It's quite embarrassing this. The movements of like, you know, a bit embarrassing, but just there, your feet. Yeah. Not so much For a wingo Is that needed as much But for a full back It's absolutely essential That idea of in and out For me it's more The conditioning of it And I'm obviously Very interested in boxing So just on like Recovery days It's not that hard for me Boxing's not hard for you No Not on my legs anyway Okay It's good for the upper body But yeah I love to box Tell me something about yourself That no one knows I think I've just told you Loads out there I'd say that's the biggest thing It's probably the meditation stuff Yeah Because I think the stereotype of a young Scouse lad, you never would have imagined that in a million years.

47:07No. Nothing shocked me. I suppose in some ways it's a case that you... I wouldn't have expected you to come with that... I wouldn't expect you to prepare for a football match in such a way. I used to think of wingers, particularly young, as being more instinctive and not as well thought out. That's just the nature of the winger and the mentality of them. yeah and the book when I was on England I was reading a book on the coach and Madders was like Scousers don't read books do they so maybe the books as well we need to get Madders on this podcast it sounds like you fit right Scousers don't read books I'm thinking genius for that one right last question last minute penalty to save your life who's taking it me you're on it yeah I put my life in no one else's hands no way Harry Kane?

47:59No, not me. You're on? Yeah. I'm a very good penalty taker as well. Don't get to take many because we've got Alex at the minute who can't miss. Yeah. But I'm good at the pens. So, we've talked a lot today about visualisation. Yeah. And I'm not throwing you forward five years, because I think that's probably too far into the future, but where are you in your head in three years? What are the big ambitions in your career? Well, I want to win trophies, first and foremost. I think that's everyone's dream. I think that goes out saying, but individually I want to be at the very top. Whatever that looks like, I probably couldn't tell you right now, but I think that comes with winning trophies, constantly scoring, constantly assisting, and running the way I do.

48:40Running's a massive part, because usually if I run a lot, I play well. But I want to be right at the very top. I don't think I've met a young player, every young player's ambitious, but I don't think I've ever met a young player that's as openly ambitious as you are. And have you always been like that? I think so. I'd like to think so. It's like a determination. I said it before, my confidence has never wavered since I was a kid. And again, it probably comes from where I come from. But yeah, I don't mind telling people where I want to get to. I actually like doing it because I feel like it puts more pressure on me to do it.

49:18If that makes sense. Public pressure. I'm just thinking, I know, and I've said this before, it's not something I make. Day of the Euro 2004, quarter-final versus Portugal, Rooney's first tournament is 18 and I'm a little bit sort of like thinking big game, you know. It wasn't my first tournament, I played in a few, but there's a tension then, I had a bit of a tension sometimes on the day of the game, not nervous or anxious or anything, but just a bit like you felt like, I said, are you okay Waz? He went, I can't wait, can't weight and you're the i have to say i've not heard of confidence and self-belief because that that blew me away that day in terms of thinking this is massive for an 18 year old to cope with this it's actually the first time i've spoken to a young player since that day where i felt the same level of confidence that's good i can't go wrong with him anyway like rooney but yeah i've always been like that the biggest games is when i'm i'm at my best yeah because i don't look at as in a negative at all it's just a chance for me to be who i want to be who i think of myself has so it's just the opportunity for me to go and be who I want to be.

50:22I look forward to it. Well I absolutely love that conversation. It wasn't what I was expecting at all. I wasn't expecting there to be that level of depth and thought and seriousness. You have to be serious to be a professional football player. Never underestimate the work that has to go in for you to be where you are today playing at the level you're playing at. But sometimes I think lads get there and they don't know how they've got there. They've played football a lot and they've listened to coaches and they've got good at it but i feel like you've sort of thought every step of the way where you're going and how you get in there and what you're doing with it yeah which is unbelievable well done well done well done

51:17You