Arsenal Drop Points, Who’s To Blame At Liverpool & Are United Back? | The Overlap Fan Debate

0:00What we're witnessing right now from Declan Rice, I think he's revolutionary. Oh, no. No. It's gone way too far. Revolutionary. He's on track for a Ballon d 'Or. If we win the league, if we win the league, we win Ballon d 'Or. That's a big if. Some people are saying, could he come back in on a big horse and save Liverpool and turn the season right? Absolutely no chance. At our top level, we can compete with anyone. Everyone wants to dismiss the Club World Cup, but we dismissed PSG like they were nothing. There's very few times where you're able to say it's good to be a Sunderland fan, but Jesus, it's good to be a Sunderland fan at the moment.

0:33It's like the world is watching and waiting for us to drop points. We're talking prior as well, are we going to play Vissan? No, we're not. You're so rattled. He's rattled, isn't he? He is rattled. No-one has even mentioned Villa as a potential challenger to Arsenal. I think we deserve far more respect than we get. It's Liverpool and City. These are, when you're talking about the big dog, sorry, I will include Villa there as well. When you're talking... I think the only reason Amarim is still in the job is because of Arteta. Not everything's about Arsenal. I promise you, bro. I promise you, bro.

1:06Not everything is about...

1:12Hello and welcome back to the Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet. And we've got two new faces on the fan terrace today. It's Kwaku here from Chelsea and we've got Felix from Fulham. Yeah? Yeah. I've got this here, Felix. Fantastic, mate. Thank you. I'm going to get that in. So go on, tell us about it. Right, so I'm a musician, yeah? And last year we were on tour and I was having a bit of a weird day in about August. And the thing that I do, probably everyone else in this room does, is if you're having a weird day, you go and find football. And we were playing Kendall Calling and I looked it up and Penrith was the nearest game.

1:49So I go find out I've got time between stage to get to Penrith, watch a three o 'clock game and then get back to Kendall Calling. It turns out it's the extra preliminary round of the FA Cup. So I watch this game. get airbrushed out of it. Like, you know, when you watch non-league football and from outside of it, you're like, watching football for the first time, remembering why you love the game. Watch this game, then I realise, in Penrith, there's no Ubers, you can't get anywhere out of Penrith to Kendall Calling. I've got one hour to get to stage, asking all the 200 people there, can you give me a lift to stage at Kendall Calling?

2:22I can't get back. Eventually this nice old man does it. I get in his car, it's Billy Williams, the chairman of Penrith. And in that moment, I realise, oh, I'm writing an adventure book about the FA Cup because I'm at the very first round and realise you could tell this story about English football from extra preliminary to the final. So every chapter of that book is through the rounds and it takes me to AFC Wimbledon, MK Donne. So that's the story about displacement, belonging, you know, that story. Last game at Goodison Park, heartbreak for Fulham in my case, quarterfinal and then to like, almost about finding the magic in the FA Cup.

2:55And I do find it at Wembley when Palace win the FA Cup for the first time. So that's the book. And what's the band Fulham's all in? The Maccabees. I feel like I'm at least 10 years older than most of you people. You've heard the Maccabees. That's the nicest thing you've said to me all day. When I said Fulham, he's like, Fulham? And I get a photo out of someone he knows at Sports Fulham like there's 12 of us. And he said he'd like to play for Fulham because we've got no standards. I'm glad I'm in your good books now. So that's what ends up becoming a bit of an internal thing about why do we love who we do?

3:31And I think with Fulham, in my case, when I did analysis back on it, I genuinely think at a time in my life, Fulham taught me about loss, disappointment and hurt. And when I was like 10, I turned up there. And apart from the big teams, it showed me like we can handle your hurt in this life. And at that time, my mum was ill. She was about to die when I was a teenager. So I genuinely think that the way that football subconsciously sometimes tells you something about yourself or gives you a place to be, Fulham did that for me, so it becomes a bit of an analysis of why football heals us and shows us things that we need to find at a certain time in my life.

4:08Brilliant Felix, fantastic.

4:15Right, well we're going to start with the man on your left. Matthew, how are we feeling on the back of the result against Chelsea? Big London derby, tough place to go. They were down to ten men. How are you feeling? A little bit flat, a little bit flat, I would say. The thing is with Arsenal is I'm going into every game expecting a win now. So then when we don't happen, when it doesn't happen, it's really depleting, I'd say. I feel depleted. I think that look we're 13 games in now right and Arsenal I think have done enough to show the rest of the footballing world that we are the team to beat I think anyone that sort of half knows what they're talking about would agree with that we 20 games in all competition we've lost one game one game and we're now at a stage where I feel like with Arsenal Arteta has found for the first time in his tenure Arteta has got a proper core that you know 3, 4, 5, 6 maybe even 7 players know for a fact they are starting that game they are a guaranteed starter they play with each other, they know each other on and off the pitch like brothers that I think could be what separates us from the rest when I look at our competition which is seemingly Man City and Chelsea, I don't think they've got that.

5:44Or I don't think they have it to our level, to be honest. And Liverpool have lost their core and you're seeing what's happening to them. Do you, when you look at the game yesterday, it was built up, wasn't it, as Caicedo v Rice. Obviously, we know about the Caicedo challenge. But there was a tackle deck, a nice putter in. I don't know, but in about the first 15 minutes, he saved the goal, basically, didn't he? He hooked his foot. Yeah, but he made up for it. No, he was a great tackle, but the touch from Nettles was classic. Yeah. But you've said that you think he's the best midfield player on the planet.

6:19Yeah. Yeah? Yeah. Go on, Wai. I think that he's showing levels right now. Look, last time I was sat here, Paul Scholes looked at me in the eye and he said that Tonali was a better footballer than Declan Rice. I don't want to disrespect Tonali here. I think he's borderline world-class. Or Paul Scholes. Or Paul Scholes. I think he's borderline world-class, if not world-class. But I was actually very happy when that aired because I think it sort of showed how overshadowed Declan Rice's brilliance is. What we're witnessing week in, week out from Declan Rice, I think is freakish. You are getting a player that is guaranteed 90 minutes, three times a week from August to May, constantly running up and down the pitch.

6:59There isn't a single skill, attribute, nothing that he lacks, in my opinion. He's always good for a goal. He scans the game. His awareness is unbelievable. tracking back, his decision making flawless, our top assister in the league, constantly... He takes corners, that's why. The best set piece specialist. Why is that a discredit to his game? He'd riled himself a bit. Don't let him do it. No, I'm not going to let him do it. Look, the thing is, Luke, when you make a good point, he likes to try and banner it off. You know that Declan Rice is the best on the planet, but the thing is... He's not the best on the planet, I don't think he is.

7:32Who do you have? I mean... I love Petri. I prefer midfielders like Petri. He's probably the best in the Premier League. How many times a year do you watch Vettinha for you to say he's better than Rice? No, mate. You've replied, so... No, but I understand what you said about Decan Rice, right? He's amazing. He does things that catch the eye. But in terms of a midfielder, I want somebody who's brilliant on the ball. I don't even think he's the best on the ball in your midfield. Supermendi, for me, is the key to Arsenal. And the fact that he got an early booking yesterday kind of took away from his game.

8:01And as a Chelsea fan, that's what I was focusing on before the game. I think Rice is amazing, right? Rice is an incredible set-piece. He embodies everything you want from an English centre midfielder. But for me, when I want a centre midfielder, I want Kevin De Bruyne. I want somebody who's the best on the pitch, on the ball. I don't think that's what Rice is. I think that's a little bit... We can all like different midfielders. And when Adam said the Pedri, that's... Yeah, but I'm the team, yeah, you just mentioned. But completely different players. So everyone's got their own strengths and weaknesses.

8:31But when you talk about Declan Rice, I've always said this. I feel like I'm watching Roy Keane, that type of player who can almost do everything. We sort of have midfield players now, don't we, where you say, OK, he's the deeper one, he's the creative one. You mentioned Zubamendi. OK, his job is to sort of, almost like what Busquets was, sit deep, get on the ball, get the team playing. So you like your midfielder like that. Somebody else likes a certain type of midfield player. but I think with Declan Rice that's the best way I could describe him where he feels like a Roy Keane to me where he does all of those things really you know he just looks powerful I never feel anyone can run past Declan Rice even when someone tries to dribble past them it was a bit like that when I used to watch Roy Keane Stevie was like that they had this power and this frame he's the most unbelievable athlete though I feel like you don't no I think Declan Rice is fantastic I'm just trying to throw out other midfielders I don't think he's the best in the world I think he's arguably the best in a the Premier League would you would you take Jude over him more from an England I'd class Jude more as like a number 10 really yeah and that's the point that's a really good point because when we talk about midfield players and we go to that debate don't we always Gerard Lampard scolds it's almost because we saw them as the goal scoring ones we see Keane and Vieira and Petite as almost like no they're just like centre midfield players do you understand what I mean and there's like almost different midfield players now because there's three players playing in there more often than not, isn't he?

9:58Is Declan Rice caught up in between being, like, he's not an out-and-out attacking midfield, he's not an out-and-out sitting, he's kind of just caught up in being... I think he's whatever the f*** he wants to be, if I'm honest. He is our midfield. And people also underestimate the best ability being availability. He is always available. The past week we've just had, he played the whole game, Spurs, Bayern, Chelsea, didn't stop running end-to-end, creating chances. Good for a goal, like I said. we underestimate how important that is. And also, when we don't have the ball, he is our leader without the armband.

10:32He's the one communicating with every player. You stay here, you go there. He is our captain. And like you said, it's like a Roy Keane, but people don't like to admit that because it's today's day and age. Everyone likes to look back. But what we're witnessing right now from Declan Rice, I think is revolutionary. Oh, no. That's gone way too far. Revolutionary. He's on track for a Ballon d 'Or. If we win the league, if we win the league, I was having everything That's a big if That's a big Arsenal favourites for the league England favourites for the World Cup Declan Rice Revolutionary is ridiculous Jamie played with Stephen Gerrard I'm sorry I love Declan Rice He couldn't lay Stephen Gerrard's boots I think Declan Rice is amazing for today's day and age He couldn't talk to Paul Scholes He couldn't talk to Frank Lampard He couldn't talk to any of those midfielders I think the midfielders you just mentioned there They've all won big trophies and I think they've all been player of the year so I think Kevin De Bruyne has been perfect player of the year Stevie has I think Roy Keane has I think if Declan Rice goes on to win those trophies what you're saying I'm not quite sure about the Ballon d 'Or but I could see if Arsenal win the league this year I think Declan Rice would probably be seen as the guy who's not won them the league but I would imagine he would get player of the year I would say Declan Rice so then that does put him in that conversation with those midfield players and I do believe Arsenal probably will win the league and Declan will get that trophy but you've just mentioned before Matt about Arsenal have only lost one game this season so they've had a brilliant season everyone thinks they're not head and shoulders above everybody else but a level above this season certainly with the squad as well does it worry you that you've had such a great start that you're not almost further ahead and there's still an awful long way to go does that sort of worry you and nag you at the back of your mind because I don't think City Liverpool or Chelsea have been that consistent they've all dropped points and lost really poor games where you wouldn't expect them to so is it almost that nagging doubt that you wish you were another sort of four or five points further forward?

12:37I'm not worried I don't think that the word is worried maybe if you look back on the patterns like Ian Luke was saying before there are patterns of us slipping up but I'm not worried in the sense that we've ticked some of the toughest places this league has to offer off the list you know we've been to Old Trafford been to Anfield been St James' Park been Stadium Alight going to Villa Park next week we battered Spurs at home we played City at home City have been very inconsistent away from home Chelsea have been very inconsistent at home so I'm looking at us and our discipline and our consistency and I think that it's a level above everyone else around us I'm not discrediting Chelsea were superb yesterday still couldn't beat us still couldn't beat us City superb out there I understand 11 against 11 But they still couldn't beat us.

13:24I understand. I'm not saying that they should have with 10 men, but they couldn't beat us. City were superb when they came to the Emirates. Still couldn't beat us. And it's also, I'm sure we might come on to it in a little bit, it's also the depth is just unbelievable. I know yesterday didn't go as planned. It was probably our worst performance of the season, but we didn't have our main centre-backs. Both of them missing. And we've got Incapier and Mascara playing together for the first time in the league. I said to Luke beforehand what happens if your two centre-backs get injured? Who have you got to come in?

13:57Ake and Stones Would you back them to go to Stamford Bridge and take three points? Probably not You didn't take three points No, I understand You'd probably lose that game Right, we're going to go on to Chelsea Kwaku, you're new to the show Thanks for joining us Tell us a little bit about yourself Yeah, I'm a lifelong Chelsea fan Kind of, yeah Fell in love with Gianfranco Isolda from a young age We were having a chat before I was saying I was that close from calling my little boy Gianfranco. That's how much I'm in love with that little man. But yeah, I work at various places, talking about football for a living.

14:30And I was covering the game last night. And I'm a Chelsea fan that's realistic, right? And I've seen Chelsea teams that have gone on to win the biggest trophies and been on some amazing away days. And I'm looking at this Chelsea team, I'm looking at the fight that they showed last night. Like you said, went down to 10 men. This is an Arsenal team who, again, Arsenal are the most hated team in the Premier League right now. but we all have to admit they're the best team in the league. They're probably the best team in the world. And so for me to see my Chelsea team go up against that team and show some heart and desire after going down to 10 men, it showed me that on our top level, at our top level, we can compete with anyone.

15:04Everyone wants to dismiss the Club World Cup, but we dismissed PSG like they were nothing. It's the PSG that turned over Villa, turned over Liverpool, turned over City, turned over Arsenal. They knocked you out. They knocked everybody out. But we beat them 3-0. and then we look at the game against Barcelona. Again, with Chelsea, there seems to be a post-mortem. After they beat these teams, there's almost like, oh yeah, but PSG were knackered. Oh, but Barcelona weren't that good. Oh, Arsenal were depleted. But maybe it's just Chelsea making them look that bad. And so I look at this Chelsea team and I'm seeing something.

15:35I know you're famous for saying that Chelsea should stop signing players and players should stop signing for Chelsea. But from your point of view, do you feel like there's evidence that this is working now? Yeah, I mean, I've got to clarify this statement. It's got me a lot of numbers on TikTok, Chelsea fans. I've had this frustration with Chelsea for a few years now. It wasn't, the point I was trying to make was if I was a young player and they just kept buying young players, but it feels like they just keep buying young players in the same position. So it feels like they've just got an abundance of wingers and centre-backs.

16:08They're the two positions I'd be thinking, if I was a young player, would I sign for Chelsea? because it almost feels like they buy another player in my position the year after. So even this year, you've signed, okay, let's go to the winger. So you signed Gittins this year. Who else have you signed as a winger? So you signed Garnaccio and Gittins. You've got another winger coming next summer from Sporting Lisbon. Yeah. Do you understand what I mean? So the point I was trying to make, if I was a young player and thinking, right, where's my career going? Am I going to sign for Chelsea, this project?

16:34How am I going to be given an opportunity? Because they're buying another player in my position in a year's time. So where's he going to go? Where am I going to go? So that was the point I was trying to make. and that's why when you look at how many goalkeepers you had on your books and how many centre-backs, and I've said this before about Chelsea, I might be wrong, but are other centre-backs feel of the same quality? I should add, I think Chalab has been excellent this season. I think he's probably been your best centre-back and he almost looks like he's stepped out of the pack there. Winger-wise, obviously some really good players there, but there's a lot of them.

17:03So that was the point. Hopefully we can put that to bed now. That was the end of it. But I wanted to ask you, because I think Chelsea have been brilliant this season. But when I actually look at the team on paper, it doesn't convince me. But obviously, as we know, the game's played on the pitch and they've done really well. I actually think the star right now is the manager. I'm a big fan of the manager. But what I used to say last season, it felt like he never really had a connection with the supporters. You would know that better than me. But I think the PSG win in the summer in the World Club Cup actually gave Chelsea fans belief.

17:37actually, we've got someone good here. He's gone up against PSG. He's gone up against Luis Enrique and took them to the cleaners. And watching them this season, the celebration after Liverpool, him at the fans, all that type of stuff, it feels to me like there's a togetherness between the support and the manager. Is that fair? Because I think he's really good. Yeah, Chelsea more than any other club. There's football clubs that winning's not the only thing. You have to play a certain type of way. And those are legacy clubs in this country, right? Liverpool, Arsenal, Manchester United. You can't just win.

18:07you have to play a certain type of football. With Chelsea, it's almost the antithesis of that because of the way that we kind of emerged under Abramovich. It was a case of we fell in love with those enigmatic managers like Mourinho and Tuchel and Conte. It wasn't about the style of play, it was about the results. And Mureska is almost the opposite of that. He's a man that he's all about the nuances of football. He kind of, he focuses on the X's and O's. And he doesn't really give the fans that kind of, that feeling of emotion that we got from those other managers. But with Chelsea, when you win, we love you.

18:37right? And that's what's happening right now. With these big results, we are falling in love with the process. We're getting used to the process because before Chelsea, you know, it wasn't a process, right? Buy the best players, win immediately, get the sack. Ancelotti won the double in 09-10, finished second of the year, year after and got the sack. Like, Demon Teo won the Champions League and lost his job in November. Like, we are a club of sacking managers, but I feel like right now under Blueco, it's a slightly different Chelsea and it's a process that we had to get used to, but it's a process that Chelsea fans are now on board with because we look at the team and you look at Rhys James, you talk about Declan Rice being the best midfielder in the world.

19:12He wasn't the best midfielder on the pitch against Chelsea. Rhys James. Rhys James absolutely bossed him and that's supposed to be a right back. Look at Kukurela, he's got Laminia Mao in his pocket. I know Saka got the assist but he might be sitting in there as well. Now I look at my team, Cole Palmer, barely played this season, one of the best players in the world. Kaiseido, one of the best midfielders in the world. Laminia Mao, one of the most exciting players in the world. All of a sudden I've named six or seven players there that in a season or two will be the best players in the world. Esteval.

19:38Esteval. Oh, sorry, I said Liminia. So we've got Esteval on the wing, who's absolutely unbelievable. And there is holes in this Chelsea team, but people talk about the defence, right? And I look at it in terms of individuals, they haven't got the names. But last season, Liverpool ran away the league. Chelsea only conceded two more goals in Liverpool last year. And that's where Moribund defence, players in and out, Rhys James in and out, Robert Sanchez giving away goals. and Chelsea was still one of the best defensive teams in the league. That's probably why I speak about that. You're probably right.

20:07You look at sort of the back four. Not so much the back four. I think everyone here, when your team's going for the league or wins the league, you're always thinking of a same type of goalkeeper, a centre-back, a centre-midfield player, a guy through the middle. And probably besides centre-midfield, you don't seem to have those names. And that's why I go back to the fact that Moresh is getting the absolute maximum, if not more, out of the squad of players that he's got. but you're used to seeing Chelsea win the biggest trophies. You're still six points off the top and you're pleased because you're getting some great results in Europe as well and Maresca's doing well.

20:43It's a young team. At what stage, as a Chelsea fan, do you become not pleased with being six points off the top? Is that next season where you go, OK, this is the season where we have to really go for it? There's some Chelsea fans there right now and that's because of the way that we have been built up. But yeah, I think next season's definitely the year, right? I can't go through all those players and say they're some of the best players in the world and then bottle out the title race next season. Of course, next season, Chelsea should be challenging for title and, in my opinion, winning the title because this is a collection of young players that not only are some of the best players in positions but are on those ridiculously long contracts.

21:16There's nobody coming in for Cole Palmer who's going to pay 200 mil. That doesn't happen in football anymore. Kaiseido bought him for north of 100 mil. No one's coming in for him because the contract is so long. So next season's the year. But I point to a Chelsea team. And again, this is not me writing off this season because I do think there is an element of, not vulnerability with Arsenal, but you mentioned about the places they've gone and not lost. But you've played against, I know Liverpool are struggling, but the three other best teams in this league, and Liverpool, Man City and Chelsea, haven't been any of them this season in the league.

21:44And so I do look at Arsenal and I see... And Villa. And you play Villa next weekend, right? Not an easy team to play against. And so let's see, right? Liverpool looked out of it, but all of a sudden with a win, they're only three points behind Chelsea. It's a close league this year. So nobody's out of it yet. And Arsenal, I think they need to be, by April time, clear of everybody to really win this league. Because I look at when Chelsea broke through 0-4, 0-5. It was a team that was emerging, right? The reason why we were so comfortable was because we were clear of everybody by December. Look at Liverpool 19-20, a team knocking on the door for ages.

22:19The title race the year before was legendary. But the reason why it felt so easy for them in that 19-20 season was because they were clear of everybody. First 18, 19 games a season, there was nobody challenging them. I think for Arsenal, if it starts to get hot around March, April time and Chelsea are still in it, I'd back us.

22:43Well, Luke, when you talk about teams trying to make it hot for them, you've done that twice to Arsenal. City's start of the season has been funny and that. It feels a little bit, it doesn't feel amazing. but you're still only five points off Arsenal. It's weird and we dropped six points in the first three games. We beat Wolves on the first day, which with all due respect a lot of teams have managed this season. So that was a bit of a, I don't know what the word is, but it wasn't really a showing of what we can do. We beat them. Next two games we lost to Tottenham and Brighton and that was really poor, but that was six points dropped in the first few games.

23:16Now I don't think Arsenal dropped many besides the Liverpool game at the start and since then we went on a pretty good run. I think it was 14 games in all comps. We lost one of them, which was against Villa, which we know now was a very tough game. It was a tough game at the time. And then, obviously, the last week or so has not been too good. Lost to Newcastle away. A few questionable decisions, but again, we're not the fan base to bang on about them like certain other ones do a bit. And then midweek was poor. That was really poor. Made 10 changes in the Champions League. And I'd like to think we'll be all right in the Champions League.

23:48I think we've still got a decent chance of getting top eight. We've got Real Madrid away next, which will be difficult. But in the league, we weren't good against Leeds besides maybe the first half or so. We didn't finish the game off. They get back in, they climb back in. And I was thinking, if we draw this, we're in big trouble. We won the game. Does it show that you're struggling this season where your goalkeeper has to go down and fake an injury to get a tactical break down? Well, who knows the inside of Donnarumma's head, to be honest. So that's all I'll say. We've seen it before with other teams doing it.

24:17But to see Pep do it. Yeah, well, you know, we won the game. so I'm not going to question any decisions that were made on that pitch, especially Phil Foden's boot because that was a great goal at the end. But like you said, five points. Arsenal have been very good so far, we all know that, but as you pointed out, they've not won many big games yet. They've got some tough ones coming up. City still haven't had Rodger really play yet, and he's arguably one of our best players if he can get back fit. Luke, when you're going through the season there, you're sort of saying you're not being at your best, and then you're probably thinking, OK, it could get better.

24:47But when you've not been at your best, Is that because that's the level City are right now? They're not the City of old. Are you expecting a big up, Tim? Yeah, 100%. What you've seen is actually this is City now. We are going to drop points and lose games now and again. I don't think that's City. I think we've had a pretty inconsistent start like a lot of other teams. But as much as Liverpool ran away with it last season, we finished the season very, very strongly last year. Came third in a season where people were looking at us not even getting in the top five, top six, getting Champions League.

25:14We had a run similar to the one Liverpool were having at the moment. It was terrible. think about the mood at Anfield right now you've obviously got a win at the weekend but losing almost every game you go into the games thinking you're going to lose and still with a bit of investment in January last season we pulled through and we got third place went on a good run and I think we've done it time and time again the treble year I'm not saying by any means we're going to go and win a treble but we look really poor we were eight points behind Arsenal at the halfway stage they had 50 points after 19 games and finished on 84 was it so I think City are always going to have an upturn in the second part of the season and if we can stay in touch with Arsenal, we've always got a chance, especially with players like Rodri coming back.

25:51We've had a lot of injuries as well. It's no excuse because we've been sloppy anyway. I think with a fully fit team, we'd have been sloppy. But Arsenal know that if we're up close and if Chelsea are putting on a bit of pressure as well, I think Arsenal are always going to have a downturn. Do you think if you're five points behind now, if you could cut that to two or three by the time we sort of come out of the March international break, I know it's a long time, but that's been the real title running. do you think they'd bottle it? Yeah, well I mean if it was two or three they'd still have to come to the Etihad in April I don't think I can't remember the last time they won at the Etihad in a meaningful game I think what's really interesting though this season is that City fans almost feel like they are relying on Arsenal to drop rather than actually pointing towards this team is good enough to just keep doing what we're doing and eventually overtaking even when you were behind us in that season that you mentioned you were sort of saying this team is so good we will eventually catch us Yeah, but what you've got to remember is that the reason we're looking at Arsenal games where they drop points is because we're not winning the points ourselves.

26:50And you have dropped a few points. We've dropped a few points. But I think back to that treble year, like I said, you had 50 points that season. I remember on New Year's Eve, we played Everton at home, which was a poor Everton side, by the way. And we drew that game 1-1. And I was thinking we're eight points off them, heading into the new year. Arsenal stomping everyone. And look what happened there. We've got a completely different squad, though. You can't keep looking back on years. this is a different different Arsenal team different Arsenal squad way better than it was then it won't be a different team until they actually win it though yeah they're always going to have that Arsenal need to actually go and get a trophy because at the minute they're just pretty much bottle jobs with the Premier League everyone keeps catching them up and that's a Geordie scene in the suit when you said that so yeah squad or not you don't need a proper I know it's not my segment but I think that people are way too it's like the world is watching and waiting for us to drop points why is that?

27:37why is that? because it's you threw 2-2 at the stadium alive Yeah, I know. You've just said you're the team to beat. Now, do you think when City were ahead, when Liverpool were ahead, do you not think people watching them games thinking, well, they dropped points? It's patterns. People look back and people are sort of hoping and praying on past patterns to come true again. But I think that there is a sense in everyone around us, everyone knows that this is our league to lose. You won about 14 and 16 games a couple of seasons ago and it was the one game against Philly a lost and you still didn't win the league.

28:03But that brings its own pressures. City were a way better team than you are now. You say, we know it's ours to lose. That's going to bring its own pressures. Outside of Gabriel Jesus, who's never available, no one's won it. I do think the only way Arsenal don't win it, I think it's Arsenal will cost them, not will. I think if you don't win the league, it'll be down to you. I don't think it's down to another team. That's what I said. You were a good side last year. You got to the late stages of the Champions League. What happened in the league? You finished, you batted us 5-1 and everyone's saying this Arsenal team's so much better than Man City.

28:30You beat us by three points to second place. We fell off a cliff, Liverpool ran away. Why did that happen? Why did you fall off a cliff? Could that happen again? We had an injury crisis. No, it's not. Look at the options we brought off. Plenty of different players. Plenty of players back fit. And by the way, we've also had an injury crisis this season. But it's sort of been overlooked because of the depth and cover that we have. You've got to be fair. This season, Arsenal, they've not blinked and they've missed Saliba through time. Gabriel, Odegaard, Saka, Ades. We've got our best players. Jesus.

28:59That's true, but they're still top of the league. I think the reason why Arsenal get a lot of flackers is because I don't think we've seen it in the Premier League before a team finish second three years in a row. You have, it was Arsenal. but eventually you break through right eventually you break through and Arsenal haven't broken through and there's been different versions of Arsenal the first year no one expected it right season before you finish fifth 50 points after 19 games like you said there was a World Cup in that year that did affect Arsenal and afterwards they weren't the same team the following year you were amazing but City were just better and that loss against Villa I know that it's like oh we just lost one game but you did lose that one game and when City and Liverpool were going for it they didn't lose any games they took a point by the way they had to Luke I mentioned before that we don't see it too often with it obviously done a rumour going down.

29:39We'll call it bending the rules to try and get an advantage. Former Manchester City advisor Stefan Borson has said he expects a verdict on the club's 115 charges by Christmas. Do you want this done and sorted out the way? And do you think this could affect whether you can put pressure on Arsenal in terms of a points deduction? Well, I think whatever the outcome of that is, I think I'll be tucking into my turkey dinner quite happy, to be honest. I don't see it happening before Christmas, personally. It's just dragged on that long. I wouldn't be surprised if it was even later. But when the charges actually dropped, the night before we had lost away at Tottenham.

30:12I think that was, again, eight points, a big distance behind Arsenal. It was about halfway through the season. And it actually spurred the team on. I think we played Villa next game and that was an unbelievable performance against them. And from that point we went on and won the treble. So I think whatever the outcome, all this talk is only going to fuel the desire of these players, the desire of Pep, desire of all the fans to go on and do something this season. So, yeah, I don't think anyone knows when this is coming. No one knows anything about the outcome. Didn't they say it was supposed to be March as well?

30:43That's what I mean. That was last year. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, I don't personally see it happening any time before Christmas. I know that both the Premier League and City are going to have to agree on the right time to announce this. And I don't know if just before Christmas is the right time. Why does City have to agree to the right time? I'm pretty sure in any legal process, when there's a big announcement, both parties you know I think both parties will be privy but I don't think they'll have anything OK maybe I'm wrong then I mean as I said like everyone else I'm not informed on any of this I don't want you to get a point deduction I want to win it fair and square Bruv take the point deduction and take your league man

31:27So a couple of weeks ago I was down at Tramia Rovers with Skybet and the British Heart Foundation as part of the Every Minute Matters campaign where we'll be discussing the importance of learning CPR and raising confidence levels in using a defib. If you want to learn CPR, check out Revive R on the British Heart Foundation website. It takes just 15 minutes and all you need is your phone and a cushion.

31:57Right, now we're going to go to Aston Villa and we've got Justin, a really poor start, now absolutely flying back up in the Champions League positions do you think you're in a false position? No absolutely not now I think we're in a fantastic position now and it's just interesting being here again listening to everyone sort of disregarding Villa again you know no one's even mentioned Villa as a potential you know challenger to Arsenal if it was anyone other than Arsenal at the top I'd be worried but because it's Arsenal I'm not that worried I think we can catch him we've got him next Saturday so we just took Sunderland's knee I can't I mean you've just been talking about You've just been talking about, like, you've just said City, but then they lost at Villa, then you talk about Arsenal when they collapsed, they lost at Villa.

32:42Unai Emery, the job he's done at Villa is literally sensational. Since he's been in, we've won more home European games than any other team in Europe, in European competitions. He's had a transfer net profit since he's come in. That's three years, which he's unheard of. Chelsea in the same time have got a net spend of 700 million and they've bought 100 players. We couldn't buy anybody in the summer. We've sold Ramsey, we sold Diaby, we had to sell Duran. We've had to deal with so many off-field problems, yet we are still, and we give everyone a five-game head start this season. We were dreadful at that first point.

33:19We couldn't score a goal, we barely created a chance, and that run we've been on since. We're now in the top four with joint top of the Europa League. And we've got a squad of players that I haven't seen in my time following Villa. The depth is ridiculous. The quality is ridiculous. And we haven't really got a centre forward that's scoring many goals either. So to have all those statistics and facts and be where we are, I think we deserve far more respect than we get. The reason I said, do you think you're in a false position, wasn't having a goal at Villa. No, I appreciate that, yeah. No, but it was actually around the fact that I covered the game and we did the show last night, we did it on Sky, extra time.

33:57We looked at some of the stats. So you've scored 56 % of your goals this season from outside the box, which is not sustainable. That was the point I was trying to make. That can't continue forever. I watched the game yesterday and I saw that Sky had sort of cottoned on that we score amazing goals. A lot of our goals have been incredible, but when you look at the actual XG of Villa, we're fourth bottom of chances created. We don't create guilt-edge, you know, we don't run the ball into the net like the old Arsenal teams, you know, overpass it. We score like yesterday, it was a prime example, you know, we scored an absolute banger, Kamara, left foot, outside the box.

34:33So that's something I think we've got to hopefully get better at, is creating better chances and more chances per game, so quality of chances. but at the moment we are we're sort of winning games by creating like the Spurs game you know, the Matty Cash pass and brought it down, Buendia bends it in the bottom corner it's unbelievable, two amazing free kicks recently, Buendia, I mean he's been a sensation, you know, he was loaned out last season and he was gone yet he comes back in the summer, gets his head down and he's been brilliant for us, you know, Morgan Rogers absolutely incredible I was talking before, Esri Conta for me best central defender in the Premier League no he's been really good for you hasn't he he's incredible he's incredible and as I say Villa just seemed to go under the radar all the time and I think it's just time we got a lot more respect we've got the best manager from the media Sky Sports the overlap everybody I just think nobody's mentioned Villa in the conversation and to be fair you did it as well you said Liverpool have struggled so and so almost alluding to the fact that those clubs can still have a run and still challenge we're ahead of a lot of them clubs now and nobody's saying nobody's putting Villa in that conversation why do you think that is you know in three years historically I haven't been in that okay historically maybe and we did drop out the division and we've had to come back we've had to build again but this is a brand new Villa the ownership is ridiculous the backroom team is unbelievable the is there a bit of something behind obviously Monchi left who's come into that role?

36:07Obviously, the transfer business over the last couple of summers has almost felt a little bit not amazing. Because we've had to do it with our hands tied behind our backs because we've got this problem with not having the income to allow us to spend. So we've had to really be very clever in the transfer market. And that's what I'm saying. Un Irony,£10 million profit. Who does that in the modern age? To be in that top four, to compete. At the very top of English football nowadays, you have to spend ridiculous amounts of money and we can't do that so the fact we are still challenging where we are it's ridiculous it is unheard of since Emory's come in we've had a semi-final in the FA Cup a semi-final of the Conference League quarterfinal in the Champions League we should have knocked PSG out and we were 5-2 down at one point and we've and we've qualified for Europe three years in a row but nobody talks about Villa and we're in the Champions League places again.

37:02You think you might not benefit from that though? Because at the start of the season, I think Unai Emery was under pressure maybe. He had a difficult start to the campaign. And I think Villa fans probably helped him. No one really spoke about it and no one really made a thing about it. Everyone kind of knows Emery's a very good coach and he benefits from there not being much noise about. He loves Good Dog. You know, if he was at Arsenal still or he was at a different club, everyone starts talking about how he's got to go and everything. I think he's benefited from there being no external noise as well really.

37:29Well, I think since he came into Villa, and he was basically, I was saying this before, he was given the keys to the kingdom at Villa. He was told he could have whatever he wanted, and he is building an empire at Villa. And if you don't realise what he's done at the club, and you can't look how deep he's done it, he's building a hotel, which is nearly open at the training ground, because he wants, after European game. Now, bear in mind, when he came in... Sorry, sorry, it just feels like you're coming on here, having a go at us all for now. No, no, no, no. Everybody says Ernie Emery is amazing.

38:01No one says he's not. No one knows. I understand that. What I'm saying is, when he came into Villa, we were 17th under Stephen Gerrard, right? In the first few weeks of his tenure, he said to the owners, I want to build a hotel at the training ground for when we get into Europe and we come back on a night and we want to, you know, have somewhere for him to stay. That was when we were 17th in the Premier League and Gerrard basically said, we need to get rid of most of this squad. Now, seven players out of that team played yesterday. John McGinn signed a new deal. Matty Cash has been sensational.

38:35You know, all these players. Consul was there before him. Watkins was there before him. He has not only coached the best out of the players he had, but he's brought in players to supplement what we've got. The squad deck is ridiculous. The bench yesterday was brilliant. You know, we are in a fantastic position now to kick off. What do you want from us? What do you want us to say? I want us to say we're in the conversation. I'm not daft enough to sit here and say you're not going to win the league you're not going to go and beat Arsenal go and beat Arsenal next Saturday we beat Arsenal at home in my opinion the one thing you've said about Villa and the one thing I'm missing is this injection of cash here and you just want to be able to spend loads and loads so you think if you can go out there and spend a good£150 I don't think that do you think that is the missing thing no no no I think that's helped us when we were saying this just before we came out I think in a way that it helped Liverpool last year to keep everybody together because they didn't have that that everybody was like a real tight bond and that's what brought them through.

39:29This year they've gone big on transfers and it fell apart. Villa, in a way, it's helped that we maybe haven't been able to go out there and we've got this tight bond of a unit. They all know what they're doing. They all buy into it. They all know what Emery does. I just think I want Villa to, I just want us to be, you know, we've got a chance. I do think we've got a chance. Chance of, what would be, you know what the big thing I think Villa needs to do and we put pressure on, especially Arsenal because they haven't won a trophy for a few years. What you don't want is just to look back in five, ten years' time at the Unai Emery era, that was amazing.

40:03But you qualify for the Champions League. You want that Wembley, you want that FA Cup, you want the Carabao Cup. It was a blow last season losing that semi-final. That was a big... Even when I looked at that result at the time, it was Palace, wasn't it, in the semi? It was like, oh, that's... You need the Palace moment. 100%. The end of last season was a massive blow. You know, it was a glorious final against PSG. then we lost to Palace in the semi-final then we lost that last game of the season at Man United which we robbed so we dropped out of the top four which we needed and that then led into the summer I went to the awards night and Damien Vidigar and he said it's going to be a tough summer and everyone was like nah it'll be alright but it was horrific again we had to navigate all that through so we were at a place where we had to sort of just try and then that fed into the season and then that was why I think we had that poor start But I think now we are, but it's only three seasons.

40:57And, you know, he took a save. We took over in 17th. So now I do believe you are right. I want to see Villa now take the next step, which is winning a trophy. And I don't care what that trophy is. We're out of the League Cup this season. It would have been nice to be in that still. But if we'd have won the FA Cup, that then gets you over the line and that starts that next phase of being really successful. But I think we are almost there now. And I think this season we could win the Europa League, which would be that trophy. and I think if we can finish Europa League and I firmly believe we'll be top four at least this season as well.

41:29At least? At least, yeah. Wow.

41:38Eleanor, I'm going to come to you. Sunderland, I think, story of the season so far has been brilliant. I think even neutral supporters have been desperate for the promoted teams to be a lot more competitive this season but nobody saw Sunderland doing this, especially being the team who come through the playoffs. You didn't obviously come in the top two. So come on, talk to me about the manager, the players you've brought in. I mean, it is just brilliant at the moment, isn't it? Like, I think I said it when I came on in August, like there's very few times where you're able to say it's good to be a Sunderland fan, but Jesus, it's good to be a Sunderland fan at the moment.

42:13Kind of, you are right, no one expected it. And I think as fans, we were quietly confident because obviously we back Labrace and we know he knows what he's doing and time and time again, he showed us that. But I mean, you even look at, I think you said it to Jill Scott and stick to football. You don't change your predictions before the end of September. But like, even by the end of September, surely you were going, I'm going to have to take some of my relegated teams here because we just keep on. People keep saying, right, well, you haven't played anyone big. We go to Chelsea and we win 2-1. People are saying, oh, you can't like come back from behind.

42:48yeah we lost 2-0 to Fulham but then you look at the weekend and we were 2-0 down come back and win 3-2 against Bournemouth I think just time and time again we're showing that the hurdles that are put in our way the excuses that are made as to why we're going to drop off we're just kind of smashing those out the park and we've it's a it's a phrase that we've had for kind of our playoff pushes and stuff like that but it's this idea of till the end like it's really really big thing it It was all of the branding around the playoff was till the end, till the end. And you've got these new players coming in who are talking about, this is what's being said in the dressing room.

43:28In the dressing room, it's till the end. You play till the final second. And I can't count the number of times already this season that when that full-time whistle goes, I've seen our players just drop to the floor because the team that we've managed to build is putting every single thing into it. I mean, I know it's the one that everyone talks about, but Xhaka, like... Has he been the signing of the season in the Premier League? Ooh. In the Premier League? I feel like I got a lot of looks there. In the Premier League? He's been the best player for Sunderland. Yeah, I think... Most influential, for sure.

44:06And I think in terms of... Doesn't that have the same thing? I think in terms of the expectation that there was for him because of... I mean, there were people saying, like, is he past his best? have we messed up signing him? There were conversations being had and you're right, the influence that he's had on our team and the impact he's made and how he's just hit the ground running. For me personally, yeah, I do think he's won the signings of the summer because we fought to get him. Our owner flew out to go and have a conversation with him to convince him to come to Sunderland and I think when you look at the players that we then signed after we signed Xhaka, a lot of whom in interviews since have said, well I spoke to Granit and he told me what the project was here he convinced me that Sunderland's the place to go I think that like the domino effect that he's had by coming in I don't think you can put a price on that Talk to me about your next three games Liverpool Man City then the big one Light work Yeah it'll be fine everything's gonna be okay Yeah no it's do you know what it's not an easy run but But I just, there's something about us.

45:18I don't think that we're going to go and get nine points. I'm not saying that. I'm not unrealistic and I'm not thinking, oh yeah, we'll go and beat them all. I think the fact that both Liverpool and City are away, which has been kind of the weaker side of our form this season, we're unbeaten at home. Both of our losses have come on the road. I think that that's an issue. And then you look at it, it's Liverpool and City. Like these are, when you're talking about the big dog, Sorry, I will include Villa there as well.

45:48When you're talking about the big dogs in the Premier League, these are the games that you're excited to go to when you're sat in League One for years. The real big, you've obviously got Joe next year as well. I mean, that game. He's hard to miss, isn't he? Where's that one at? It's at Stadium of Light. OK, brilliant. Do you fancy your chances against Newcastle? watching Newcastle this season? Yeah, so my biggest stress going into the weekend, weirdly, was that we were going to win because in my head, and you know, I mean, every single football fan, I think we're probably one of the most superstitious group of people on the planet.

46:29So in my head, I was thinking, right, if we lose to Bournemouth, then we're not going into the mags unbeaten at home and then they can't take that away from us. And then when we went 2-0 down, I was like, oh, right, okay, it's all fine. And then I was like, great, we've won 3-2, but we're still going in to the Mags at home unbeaten. And that was a stress. But, I mean, you've got, obviously, AFCON's going to be an issue for us, but you've got the lads who are going to AFCON who have gone back to the countries they're playing for and saying, I am not flying out until after the Newcastle game. They've been really, really clear about that.

47:09So we are not missing any players for the Mags game. They're all going to be there. we're going to have as close to a full strength side as we can and I think that Do you think you can beat them? Yeah Oh that's it right Joe You've got an unbelievable We've got there in the end Joe We're gone actually if you go over time it's been exactly the same amount of games that we've both won and both lost More recent we're better but Joe Joe when Sunderland come up listen there's a rivalry I'm sure you obviously you take the mick out of them they're in the division below surprisingly they end up coming up and they've been the biggest story in the Premier League right now.

47:46So I'm sure that is a little bit annoying for Newcastle supporters. Are you actually now worried about going to the stadium in a couple of weeks? No. You should be if you're going to wear that suit. This isn't all. Don't you worry, this suit will be fine, right? No, because of one thing, if you go back to the last time I even praised Sunderland for the way that they've signed this summer. I think it's done great for them. Well done. I'm glad to see that. that are doing well. It's a hair-off for that, isn't it? However, however, he has the big thing with them. Right now, the confidence coming off, are they, about these next three games?

48:21Yes, she's not expecting three points, but the focus is Newcastle, Newcastle, Newcastle, Newcastle, Newcastle, Newcastle, and Villa. And for me, I think that's where your wheels are going to fall off just for a little while. I think these next three games are going to be the toughest because you're going to overlook City, you're going to overlook Liverpool, and then the wheels are going to fall off coming into that game against us. and we're going to come through just as we've just done this weekend and we are going to go straight in at the stadium and hit it. Do you think you're the light on it, Kevin Keegan?

48:50Like you look at, like Regis Brees, that is just not what he's going to do at all. That man plans meticulously for every single thing that could happen. I, although there will be conversations being had at the moment, I guarantee that it's not a conversation he's even really had with the players yet because the manager that he is and the thought and the process that he puts into every single one, I mean, the thought and process he puts into every single one, it doesn't matter what we're thinking as fans. It matters what's happening on the pitch. And I don't believe that those lads are going, right, everything's about Newcastle game.

49:26Let's go and lose to Liverpool. Let's go and lose to City. Those don't matter. That is just not even a conversation that would enter their headspace. It's ridiculous to say. We've already beat us recently. Congratulations. but we were in a different league to you with a completely different team to the one we've got now. And having to make a massive impact in the Premier League to beat us, that's going to be a big thing. We've made an impact in the Premier League. Sunderland have got into your heads, haven't they? No, he will have done. No, don't get me wrong. There's a lot of good things that Sunderland have done for Sunderland this season, which is brilliant.

50:02And this derby, for me, personally, I hope you agree here, I think this is going to be one of the best derbies that we've ever had. I think you expect One of six in a row Probably But we're going to smash them We're going to smash them They've come up And they're doing so well Now you're really worried I'm not worried about Sunday The conversation Is that what did you put That soup on? Follow Marty Malik Chow Sandro Tenali One of the best Midfielders in the Premier League Bruno Guimaraes Yes you can talk About your Kranichak guys And he's done great Dan Ballard Omar Alderete Ballard wow He's already We've all went against them Noah Siddiqui And put them to bed Your boys took one Hell of a beating.

50:38Those players did not play. The only player that will start against you, the only player that will start against you that was in that side will be Dan Ballard. He is the only player that will be the same from when we played you a couple of years ago. The rest of the team is completely different. Eddie Howe knows how to go against you and he's going to do the same. All right, well, the last time Newcastle won a time-weird derby was 2011. I was 12 years old. In the Premier League, yes. Thank you for saying in the Premier League. Yes, because, yeah, you remember the League Cup when Mabiti is there as well.

51:11Which, don't get us wrong, yeah, you're a league below it, I get that. And I'm not going into this game expecting, like, this to be an absolute whitewash. Not at all. You're going to be a struggle. You're going to come out with it. Of course you are. But I think we've got the wherewithal. We've got the depth. We've got everything to go into this game. We're talking prior as well. Are we going to play Vissan? No, we're not. I really don't think that's going to end up happening. You're so rattled. He's rattled, isn't he? He's so rattled. You know, it's a nice, nice, nice man. Yep, keep going. We're going to slow around.

51:39You've just said that, oh, I don't expect, we're going to smash you. Like, you're just not. Watch the game end. I think if you lose, you've got to wear that for a year. I'll tell you what, I'll wear the red one, right? Yasmei promise, if you beat us at the stadium, I'll say it, I'm not scared. The next time we'll come on and you're on as well, I'll wear the red one. Get your red suit ready. Deal? Yeah, fine. Alright Felix We're going to bring you in now Watch more of that Yeah The audience is entertaining A couple of good results For Fulham Look a little bit Back on track What I would say is I'm a massive fan Of the manager I think he's a really good manager Marco Silva Are you worried that he's maybe Well yeah Has he not signed a contract Is he maybe looking to move on Do you know what Well firstly We've had a really massive week Because We got beat away at Everton If you remember And that was the first performance I think in Silva's tenure In the Premier League where it just felt like we didn't turn up and it was right in the middle of him not signing a contract, that coming public, all that kind of stuff.

52:39So it felt like, for a second, quicksand. Do you know what I mean? But we've won two massive games. Sunderland, that was a huge game. Weirdly, you didn't show up at the Craven Cottage. We're not great after this. We're getting ready for Newcastle. Yeah, we're too focused, apparently. Well, clearly. And then we've had a massive one away at Spurs as well, where this first 10 minutes there in disarray. But it feels like that was huge firstly, so that makes us more hopeful we can sign a contract. It was his 200th game for Fulham. If you think about that, what other managers have been at their clubs for 200 games?

53:10That's actually incredible. And our anxiety really is that if you look at Brighton, Bournemouth, who else? Brentford, they've all lost managers every year and we've all gone, oh, they're going to struggle. And then it's become evident that actually it's the backroom stuff that's keeping those clubs ticking. With Fulham, we don't have that same assurance. it feels like this Fulham team is Marco Silva's team. They've got all his hallmarks, very pragmatic, and he likes what we've done. We've slagged off a bit in the market, but we needed forward-thinking midfielders that can break the lines, because a lot of teams were coming to Fulham with this low block and we just couldn't break it.

53:49It was just quite dull patterns and this kind of thing. Chuck Quasey, Harry Wilson's coming into his own. Kevin's new signing just feels like we can really threaten teams like that now. So I feel like if we can keep Silva, he's desperate to win something. He's desperate to win. We've got a League Cup semi-final against Liverpool recently, quarterfinal with Palace. He really feels like a guy so emotional, so driven. And in some ways, I think it's been a perfect job for him because where Palace have succeeded and have players nicked off them, Brentford with Frank, that kind of thing, we've just been under the radar.

54:23So every time that sort of goes out looking for a manager, Silva's kind of third, fourth person you're thinking about and I think that's really suited Marco it's just about can we keep I mean to you Jamie what do you think Fulham without Silva say he gets it firstly where would he go he's going to need a top ten Prem team isn't he and secondly where does that leave us you reckon I've always been a fan of Silva even when he come into the Premier League when he first started the whole I actually think he was the one manager Everton should have stuck with you know when Everton kept sort of changing manager with Mishiri and the owner he was the one I sort of liked I've always I've always seen Silva not but almost like Tottenham I'm not saying Tottenham hasn't changed Thomas Frank put Michael Silva and the point I'm trying to make is not quite go from Fulham to like you know a Liverpool or Manchester City we think going to sort of compete for the league but sort of that sort of level just be longer trying to get you know Champions League maybe you know Aston Villa that type of team that would almost be the next step for him in the Premier League I think he probably deserves one of those jobs when they're next yeah I agree I would forgive him, definitely, but it suits him because he's a very passionate guy.

55:30At Craven Cottage, 20 ,000 people, that sort of personality actually really emanates. So if you're seeing this guy from every angle on the pitch in the crowd, Fulham, obviously, even the great Fulham teams, Hodgson's teams, have been very within their limitations. We understand our limitations and we play to them. Silva's just got this attitude that no one's better than us. We'll turn up and threaten anyone. and that does bleed into the whole way the place feels about itself. So like I say, I feel like he's probably found the perfect level. I think if Silva can get another good couple of months' results, sign a nice contract, there's got to be a cup there for Fulham.

56:07We're the biggest team in England that haven't won a cup. So after Palace, no one bigger than Fulham hasn't won a cup in their entire history major cup. And I feel like that's what he's... He's already broken the highest points tally last year at Fulham. So it just feels like that's the legacy that Marco's after. Fingers crossed. Yeah. Listen, you've got a big tour coming up next year. Yes mate, you coming? I'm in. I'm in. He's at Le Macabees, he's coming. In July we're playing five or six big outdoor shows. Brighton Beach, Outdoor Alley Pally, Bristol, where else are you playing? Leeds, Cornwall, yeah, some big shows outside.

56:42Brilliant, well good luck with it. Hope it goes well. Thank you.

56:51Gareth, I think it probably shows how Liverpool are doing that I'm coming to you seven or eight in. We're normally coming to you first in the last couple of years. I'm last, what does that mean?

57:07Listen, you've got your podcast, I'm on TV as well. We talk about Liverpool a lot and there's lots of different things going on right now. Who would you put most at fault for the current four? Would it be in the dugout? Would it be the players? Would it be the hierarchy above the manager in terms of the transfer business? It's a tough question, because it feels like it is literally a bit of everything. Which is why I've been at all the games that we've lost, and it's not been a great time to be a Liverpool fan. Obviously, I think the one in Europe the other night, PSV, was a particular low. A game where I wasn't planning to go for a pint afterwards, but I had to go and drown my sorrows.

57:50But it was good because I had some sort of old school reds who've seen everything, older than me, put their arm round me. I didn't know them. And they just said to me, just stick with it. We'll be all right. We'll be all right. We'll be all right. And I needed that. And I kind of think Liverpool have needed that. We needed that win yesterday. Whose fault is it almost? Well, when you're in the pub, okay, talking to your mate and you're getting frustrated, do you think Slott's been dealt a bad hand with the players that have come in do you think the players have let him down do you think Slott should be getting more out of this squad again it feels all of the above I think Slott's been you know the definition of madness is do the same thing over and over again and I think we've seen that I think at West Ham yesterday we've seen something different and I was glad to see us more solid to see Joe Gomez playing to see Sub-Ozlai on the right with him No Salah as well.

58:44No Salah, yeah. That's a big deal for him to drop Salah. 53 games, I think, he'd started in the Premier League. And so for him to be dropped, it is a big deal. And I think the previous game where he was dropped was the one where he lost as Ragward Klopp and he was coming out afterwards saying there will be fire if I talk about what I really think. You talked really early on in the season about Liverpool being too open and almost being like basketball. And I think that's played out. you look at the Premier League table, we've scored 20, conceded 20, won seven, lost six. You know, there's no balance to what I think what Slott's dealing with.

59:22You know, you talk about the hand he's being dealt. Equally, I think, you know, there have been times where, you know, he could have changed things. He could have decided instead of being open, let's be solid. Let's have the basis of not concede first. It's almost felt like he hasn't wanted to do that. And we've had no draws in the Premier League. You know, quite a few of those, I would have taken the draw all day. At Palace, Chelsea, last-minute goals. Absolutely, yeah. So, you know, I kind of hope that this is a little foothold for us to go somewhere now. I'm not making any wild predictions.

59:55I think Sunderland will be a really hard game midweek. Then we're going to Leeds. We should beat Leeds, but it's Leeds away. And we haven't been great away. I think, you know, yesterday's only the second clean sheet on the road for Liverpool. So there's loads of problems. But, you know, we spent a lot of money, and that's what keeps getting thrown back at us. But, you know, there's not enough centre-halves. There isn't really cover in midfield. There isn't really a midfielder like a Fabinho. There isn't anyone like that, like a destroyer, someone who's winning the ball. But does that go back to the hand slots being dealt in terms of how can you spend that much money and then you actually look at the make-up of the actual squad and it looks unbalanced?

1:00:34I know, I know. And this is it. And, you know, when you have the conversation in the pub about whose fault is it, you know I'm saying to my mates well he was employed they made a big deal about calling him head coach and we know that by the end Klopp didn't have too much power for some people's liking shall we say we've seen that in the press over the weekend again about you know some people were saying could he come back in on a big horse and save Liverpool and turn the season around absolutely no chance because you know we've joined the dots and Michael Edwards Jürgen Klopp they didn't get on Michael Edwards is back involved You know, we've got the stats fellas, if you like, back involved.

1:01:13Richard Hughes is there signing off on players that they've bought. So it is an all-on slot. And I kept looking at it when the noise was getting louder and louder about him getting sacked. And I was thinking, it's not for me. I don't want us to do that. You said before about how often Chelsea sack managers. I don't feel that's Liverpool. And I said that on my podcast, and I got some stick for it. It was like, well, when's the right time? When do you want them to go? I had people message me after me. is now the time for them to go? And I was sort of in agreement with what you said, I thought, if he loses West Ham, Sunderland, Leeds, it's going to be really hard to just say we keep on going.

1:01:49It felt like a big week, didn't it? I felt like West Ham away was the toughest of those games. You know, West Ham, I think, I don't know if they'd won the last three or they'd been unbeaten, but it felt like because of not so much he's got three games, it was almost the nature of the opposition, being a team who've been in the bottom three all season, West Ham, a promoted team in Sunderland, and then Leeds are another promoted team who are in the bottom three and it felt like if you don't get results in that it does feel a little bit like where do you go because I'm with you the idea of Liverpool changing a manager who's won the league you know what I mean it's like Liverpool have never changed a manager who's won the league and then who do you get?

1:02:27The idea of putting an interim manager in just feels like who? How? What do you make of the Gerrard stuff? Is any of that serious? I keep seeing people shout up the name Gerrard No, I wouldn't imagine isn't that because he's been a manager you've mentioned about Villa but he's had great success at Rangers as well but obviously he's a legendary figure and he's back he's floating around Liverpool isn't he he's back in town if you like but I don't think most Liverpool fans would be screaming for Stevie G I think everyone's desperate for it to work for Slott but you're on such a bad run then the flip side of that is how long does he sort of carry on is it so I do feel it was a big week was you getting that feeling yourself did you go the game to West Ham or where did you I didn't go to West Ham but I go to all the own games and then the other way and I didn't go to West Ham but it did feel absolute must win didn't it and it was sort of when I sat down to watch that I just thought please like you know I've got to come on here I've got to do my own podcast like it gave me something positive to talk about so we did get a victory we did get a win we dug in it wasn't it wasn't you know the greatest you know you're not going to get a DVD of that game and watch it back to your four times it wasn't a classic to watch but I didn't mind that and I almost think as slot ended up a bit obsessed as the team behind or with slot you know if they all got a bit obsessed about it being entertaining it being great to watch signing these big name players we'll take winning we'll take winning you know you played under julia and julia turned liverpool around a lot of that football though at times wasn't fantastic to watch but we won the game and you'll take winning the game all day and when you're seeing the same things over and over again like i said to see something a bit different against west ham i was made up with it was made up to see joe gomez back on the pitch I thought to finally get something out of Isak that's a way forward it was a good finish you know Wirt as well Wirt looked that was the first time listen he played well against Real Madrid but that was the first time I watched Wirt and thought he looked a level above everybody else on the pitch and that's what he should look when you're paying that type of money I'm not trying to put more pressure on him or you know but whoa what was that?

1:04:33Oh red card oh he might be happy but that was the first time I'd seen him I thought oh he looks a level above everybody else here on the pitch and I and that for me shouldn't be a one off I want to see that because he didn't set a goal he didn't score we've still got to get that as well but the level he put in yesterday I'm thinking okay I want that most weeks because you are a superstar player who's the best player in Germany you cost 115 you know broke the British transfer record before is at come. I need to see that. So you've got Sunderland leads, two teams who Liverpool should dominate, may not win, but should dominate with the ball.

1:05:13And I just hope that's almost like, OK, we're off and running now. Yeah, there's the way home. That's what I thought as well. Because what I've been really worrying in recent weeks is, you know, you're going in the pub afterwards and you're like, well, who's playing well? Do you know, who you're pinning your hopes on? And it felt like we kept pinning him on Salah when he's clearly not playing well. And, you know, the system's slightly changed and the players have changed. and it's like, well, if we're just waiting for magic from him, like he produced last season, well, it's not there at the moment.

1:05:38For me, he deserves to be dropped. Can I ask you about Mo Salah? Because you talked about Arnish Lott being a head coach and you look at Mick Arteta at Arsenal, he feels like a manager. You look at Pep Guardiola, he feels like a manager. And I looked at the form of Mo Salah. If he was playing for Arsenal, would he still be starting for Arsenal? I think Arteta would have dropped him. I think Pep would have dropped him as well. and I think Arne Schlott yesterday was a huge move to drop Mo Salah, it's always a story to drop Mo Salah. Do you think that Afton will be a godsend where he does go and play for Egypt and if he comes back and you hit a decent form, Mo Salah not starting for Liverpool all of a sudden is not as big of a story as it before.

1:06:16Yeah, you get to look at Liverpool 2.0 without Mo Salah, but one day we've got to prep for him. Look, they got him to sign that big contract, he was fantastic last season, 12, 13 games, whatever it is now, he's not produced anything like that. you've got to start looking at something else because he can't go on forever and I think as well it's interesting that Liverpool are being linked with Semenyo as an example imagine he came in in January and he's doing something while Salah's away there's almost a scenario where you could say well right we've broke that thing if he starts every single game now and there was clearly clashes with Klopp like I said I've already referenced so maybe he's a little bit difficult to manage behind the scenes if he's not starting games The problem is, and I know what you're saying, and I've been critical of Mo Salah more off the pitch this season.

1:07:05Actually, on the pitch, I think he's had too much criticism. The team's not playing well, so he's not going to be as good. He is getting into his early 30s, and we're talking about the first season he's ever had where it hasn't been amazing. Even though Liverpool have had poor seasons, if you go back over the last seven or eight years, Salah's still scored 30 goals. it's the first time he's ever had a poor and by the way it's not a season it's a start to a season but it goes back to the make up of the squad and you're saying don't play him if you still look at how Liverpool set up yesterday they basically played out to right winger because they haven't got one behind them to replace them so basically going forward the make up of that team yesterday yes we won and everyone's happy as a Liverpool fan that's not the template really for Liverpool going forward as a proper team you're pleased Joe Gomez came back but Joe Gomez is not a flying fullback.

1:07:56He's got no winger in front of him, so he had to be almost like the right wing yesterday. That is not, that's not a progression, that's not something going forward. That was to do with job yesterday. Now, for me, I think Salah comes back in against Sunderland. I've got a thing with Salah playing away from home, and I think it is quite sensible in certain away games in Europe, maybe Inter Milan away in the Champions League. I'd leave him in against Leeds. Maybe you'd take him out so he doesn't play every week, but it goes back to the make-up of the squad, where you haven't got basically any cover for the wide players.

1:08:24Gachpo has to play every game and almost Salah does because there's nobody there behind them. Because that's one of the big misses, isn't it? You know, you're looking at who's left, who's come in and I think more and more the conversations are, especially when you're seeing what he's doing in Germany, you're like, we missed Diaz. You know, we missed someone who you could get the ball to, he could keep the ball, he could take players on, he could get you up the pitch, he scored some goals, etc. It's frustrating at times. But, you know, I think what people do in these times, though, is they make up stories that aren't, you know, like, oh, you could have kept him.

1:08:52He wanted to go. he wanted to go this season before I'm with you people that's where I think the hierarchy of the club is almost like Arnie Slott you're the head coach as in Arnie Slott might have wanted to keep him but Dave said he's 28 he's 29 next 30 if we give him a new contract we've got to put him on massive money Bayern Munich it was a good deal for Liverpool I'll argue that with anyone and he's going to look amazing in the Bundesliga because it's not as good as the Premier League Diaz was a very good player for Liverpool he wasn't a great he wasn't Firmino he wasn't Mane he wasn't Salah he was a good player Liverpool got some good years out and got a good price it was a good deal for Liverpool but what they haven't done is replaced them but if Wirt becomes what we hope him to be maybe in some ways a different player but he's that player between the lines to the left so you'll get that from there but you said on social media that you weren't having Arne Schlott why?

1:09:42I just think I just think there was a lot made of the first season right and it was an amazing job from Arne Schlott he did a fantastic job with Liverpool and you could talk about it being the remnants of a Klopp side, but Arne Schlacht came in and he made a few tweaks and everyone said Liverpool lost the transfer window. He moved Gravenberg into sixth. Just get to the bus. But a lot of managers have won the league in their first season, right? Like, it's not uncommon. I've seen it with Mourinho, I've seen it with Ranieri, I've seen it with Pellegrini, I've seen it with Conte, I've seen it with multiple managers, I saw it with Schlacht.

1:10:19And a lot of those managers did lose their job by the end of the second season. So I just looked at Liverpool's situation and said that Arne Schlotzer, he's a good manager, but is there anything to suggest that he's a great manager? And the fact that he won the league last season can't mitigate the fact that Liverpool have lost six games by November. I thought that's a glaring number, considering that you spent£400 million in the summer and you got worse. I think if Liverpool were suffering from a settling in period and you're maybe third or fourth in the league and not running away with it, I'd understand it.

1:10:45But he's lost six games by November. but that's really worrying and concerning for them for a team like Liverpool who we all expect us to win the league this season I think I agree with a lot of what you've said and I think as Liverpool fans now yesterday is almost like just relief we've won but at the end of the season we'll look back on it see where we finish and what happens long way to go but when Liverpool went big in the summer we've got to be honest we weren't thinking we were thinking Champions League as well as the league and it wasn't let's try and win the league again next season I think a lot of us were thinking this could be a situation where it's three leagues in five years.

1:11:18You know, that type of like, where we become the dominant force for sort of three or four years. I think that's where the real disappointment comes from. Not from the fact that we don't think we're going to win the league. I think we probably all felt this could be our time to be what Man City have been the last few years or maybe United's been in the past. And you're like, you just want to win a few in a certain sort of time period. Also, I just think that there's no reason for us to sit here and think that Man United are a bigger club than Liverpool. Liverpool won the same amount of league titles, won double the amount of European Cups.

1:11:47Liverpool, in my opinion, are a bigger club. And this was a season for them to really go and assert the dominance and create a dynasty. And that's what United did in the 90s. They created a dynasty. That's one of the biggest clubs in the world. They won the biggest clubs in the world. And I thought that this was the perfect opportunity while Man City were recovering, whilst we don't know about Arsenal, while you look at Man United, they're on their knees. This was Liverpool's time, and I think this is a missed opportunity this season to really go and assert your dominance. I don't think you're Sakh the manager for that, though.

1:12:10I mean, you know, Isak is an example. You know, we all know the story. We know how he engineered the move. Loads of people don't like that and he's become this pantomime baddie. But I mean, I think I've seen something in the papers over the weekend about, you know, he's played 390 minutes since February or something like that. So quite clearly, whatever you do, whatever any manager did, he's not going to be fit and he's not going to be at it for a while. And the manager's trying to play him into form, trying to play him into fitness. I've not necessarily agreed with that. I thought when he literally said in a press conference, I'm playing him and I'm dropping a TK and you'll have to cop for that because he needs to get fit.

1:12:46I thought, come on, you know, put a tyre around his back and get him to run round the stadium and play the lad in form, you know what I mean? But what I'm saying here is, you spent all that money, you know, he's a record signing, he's got to play him. You know, and that's a pressure that's, you know, would affect any manager. And then you see it sometimes, like there was a game the other week where he beat a couple of players down on the wing and he got in the box, ball went out the other side. And while he's waiting for the ball to come back in, he was like this. and I was thinking I mean it might be a question for you Jamie what would it be like as a pro player in the Prem to have basically missed pre-season how long is it going to take to catch up I was talking about this yesterday at Sky but how long can you keep saying it at what stage do you say no pre-season but listen I'm going to say something now and I've been a pro footballer there's loads of pre-seasons I think when we say this and I was Connor called you to the TV with me yesterday and he said mentioned that before the game and I think it's almost something that we all say oh he's missed his pre-season it's like we can write six months off because he missed pre-season so I end up getting into a debate I'll probably obviously come on onto it now I think too much is made of it I think we give them oh he's missed pre-season excuse so you know when you know when I break so I break my leg in the September so I've done a pre-season break my leg I'm out for four months is that when you decide to play on against Blackburn yeah yeah early September yeah hobbled off no stretch yet but when I get back fit I don't do a pre-season I get fit obviously I do a few weeks training I have a reserve game I have another and then I'm back into it I haven't had this big pre-season but I had longer off than I did in the summer do you know what I mean so I think of course you need pre-season you've got data scientists all that's been going on for years of course you need to build this fitness I get that but I think it's massively because anyone who gets a bad injury in a season doesn't do a pre-season before he comes back and he goes back into playing.

1:14:49And we don't say, we just say he's being out injured. I just think it gives people too much of an excuse, mate. I always have to. OK, well he's being shite then. Yeah, so pull your finger out of it, Isak.

1:15:08Adam, am I United back? I don't know. I think the last week and the two games that have been in that week kind of probably encapsulate where we are right now. You're going to see some bad, you're going to see some good while we try and, you know, do this system. I thought the Everton game was worse than the Grimsby game for me because we played against 10 men for so long, didn't create a chance. And one of the frustrating things for me, and I guess we kind of have to accept it, is we had three centre-backs the whole time against 10 men. Why not put Casemiro as one of them, let him push forward?

1:15:39I don't know, change something so that we've got more attacking players on the pitch. And I think the whole of Old Trafford kind of felt that we're not really risking anything here. We're not going for it. And it felt like Everton would get an easy three points or at best we'd grab a draw. And that was a really disappointing game. So disappointing that I went into the game against Palace kind of thinking they're going to beat us here. And it's going to be an easy three points for them. And one of the things that worried me as well was after the Everton game, after we've had that decent run, we have the Everton game, we lose.

1:16:08the manager came out and he went I'm a bit scared it might turn into how it was last season I was like brother me too I'm scared too but like you kind of got to calm me down and calm everyone else down and he's to a fault too honest at times and I think that can You've said that before Yeah yeah yeah I like it at times but then also there's times like that where I'm going oh I'm shitting myself now because you are and I thought that was strange but the result and the performance in the second half against Palace was excellent Palace are obviously a very difficult team to play against. I know they probably tied a little bit in the second half and I don't think they've won a game after a European game yet this season.

1:16:45So maybe some of those things add into it but I thought the problem solving during the game was very good. I thought the set pieces were very good. It was good to see Zerksy get a goal because I do think there's a player in there but he has to be really confident and it was good to see Mason Mount completing 90 minutes as well. You know the sort of run of form that you've been on? So I know Everton's in the middle of that but before I think you'd been five unbeaten obviously you've won away at Palace which is a great result. So this has probably been the best sort of, what would you say, six to eight weeks for the manager?

1:17:13Yeah, we've had nine games. I think it's two draws a defeat and six wins. So that's probably been his best. So what I'm saying is, but even if you just looked at those games, this is his best time. Does that give you hope that this guy could be the man that gets you back? I'm not even saying to win the league, but actually really competing. I think so. We looked at him on the night football The style He's gone a lot more direct Maybe since the goalkeeper's coming in He's got a really good kick on him Is there anything about the way the play And not just the rules That gives you Sort of hope and belief going forward That you could get back with this guy in charge I think the last two games have shown us How important Cunha and Cesc are Because I think that And once you take those two out We've basically got the same team as last season Plus Mboumo So I think we do need to make signings I think The midfield area I'm always going to keep banging on How about but that is a problem area for us.

1:18:05I think Casemiro has improved and Bruno will obviously always be Bruno, but then... Bruno's got, I'm just reading here, has now got more assists in the Premier League than Paul Scholes. In Scholes. But stats can be bastards at times, I guess. Said Scholesy. Yeah, there was a point in time in that game against Everton where Casemiro and Bruno just followed each other to the touchline and he was like, we've got no one in the middle of the park. And I think they do have a little bit of that Bozo gene in them sometimes where they just start running around and then we've got no midfield. So I think we need to sort that out and get someone in there.

1:18:38Ugarte is clearly not fancied by the manager. So I think sorting that out is huge. Kaby Maynard not being in a team, every time I see it, it kind of makes me sick because he's the kind of talent we should be building around. Look, I think we can beat anybody, but we can also be beaten by anybody. And that's the problem. But I think against Liverpool and that little run around there, we show the positives of this system. If you get Sesko brought into the game and you get Mbumo and Cunha flying, then you're going to have a good time. But far too often, Luke Shaw is getting too much of the ball. Dorgou is getting too much of the ball.

1:19:13It's like if two of your main attacking outlets are Luke Shaw and Patrick Dorgou, you've got a problem. So maybe it's a personnel thing. Maybe it's a system thing. I don't know. But we are getting there. It's very slowly. All right, there's a question here. And it's made me think of something with Ariel Ferdinand, actually. who is more likely to remain in their current job for next season Arne Slott or Ruben Amaran and the reason I say that I think they all messaged me on social media saying why aren't I giving Arne Slott the same stick I hate when United fans say that because one of them's going into his meeting with his board with the Premier League winners I know it was just a bizarre I didn't even it does wind me up well why ain't no one talking about Man City the same way you support the biggest club in the world arguably like you should get used to the fact that we're always going to be the topic of conversation Yes, it can be frustrating at times.

1:20:03I think the reason why I'd say Amorim is most likely to be there is because of the backing from the board, and I don't know what that's like from the Liverpool end. You think Amorim's more likely to be at Man United? That's only because I have no knowledge of what the board is like with Arnislav. And I know more from a Manchester United perspective that they've said they're going to stick by him. They're going to allow him a few years in the job. So if that's the case and we see this kind of form throughout the rest of the season, I imagine they'll stick with him. And if Liverpool's form does continue as much as the hope does Arnistat.

1:20:37I think that the only reason Amarim is still in the job is because of Arteta. I think that they've looked at what Arteta's done at Arsenal. Not everything's about Arsenal. I promise you, though. I promise you, though. Not everything's about... To be fair to him, Jim McCliff did say that. Jim McCliff did mention Arsenal and Arteta. If he doesn't win games, you can't... So what, United can stick with armour in for six more years and win nothing, is that what we're saying? Is that genuinely what we're saying? Because that's the model, he's not going anywhere, mate. Yeah, but it's the... Yeah, you're asking him, stop looking at me, you're asking him.

1:21:10But it's in the sense that United are not a great team. When Arteta took over Arsenal, Arsenal weren't a great team. It got bad before it got better. And I think that you're in that sort of phase that Arteta was in when he was taking over a squad. Some players were on too much money and hard to get out the door and he's slowly but surely getting in some of his own. And I think that the board would have looked at what Arteta's done. I'm not trying to make it all about Arsenal, but I think Arteta's made it difficult for directors to sack their manager early because he's shown that if you do trust the process, it will get better.

1:21:41We've had this thing, Will, with United fans always go, oh, well, Fergie got three years before. And it's like, you have to give the right man the right time, right? And if things are slipping through your fingers and you can feel it how we did a couple of weeks ago, well, probably about two months ago now. That's what I don't get. With us, I think there is still a pretty decent amount of faith in slot. But I looked at the odds this morning before I come out because I was just wondering. And slot's like third favourite to get sacked right now. Amaran's like 25 to 1. And I was quite surprised by that because I thought, you know, your lot were really unhappy, quite rightly, to losing to the 10 men of Everton at home.

1:22:22Like, shouldn't he be under a little bit more pressure to go back to Rio? I think Jim Ratcliffe coming out and saying that stuff has really calmed everything down. And it may even make him feel a little bit better out of it when he's coming out after games that we've maybe not done well in. And he's thinking, well, I've got the backing of the board. I think it has calmed everyone down. And we were even getting, and results would have helped that, but I think we were even getting like, oh, he's got two games left. Almost every two weeks, it felt like we were getting that. And that's kind of calmed down.

1:22:48So think about how bad it got and he still didn't go. Yeah, if you were going to sack him, you would have done it by now. The Grimsby game, he could have gone after that, in my opinion. He didn't go after all that, do you know what I mean? So maybe that's why he might stay. Maybe we might win the league. Who knows? And on that note, that is another edition of The Fan Debate, brought to you by Skybet.

1:23:32We'll be right back.