Arsenal’s Title Defence, Carra’s Liverpool Fears & Newcastle’s Nightmare | New Season Fan Debate Part 1

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2:56Hello and welcome back to the Fan Debate, brought to you by Skybet. Paul Scholes is back with me once again alongside our loyal fans. And we are pleased to welcome back Martin Ziegler again. So Scholes, I'm going to start with you. I'm going to put you on the spot here. Yeah, cheers. What was your favourite pre-season trip as a player? It's quite hard to remember really, it's a long time ago Jamie. Yeah, probably not fair. Did you go to the same places every year, United? Yeah, we went all over the place. Went to the Far East, Singapore, Tokyo, China. Did you prefer going to America? Did you go to America?

3:32Yeah, I went to America towards the end. Yeah, America was better. It was a lot easier, a lot more relaxed. I remember one in particular, not for being brilliant, but just for a reason. We were trying to sign Ronaldinho at the time. and I think the manager actually thought it got it done to the point where we're in a dressing room at training beforehand and he's discussing numbers for him. Was he at? Yeah. Do we give him the seven? Do we give him the ten? I can't remember who was in the seven and the ten at the time. Seven's obviously a big number for Manchester United. I think they were talking about that.

4:08I think the day after he turned us down, I went to Barcelona and our first game pre-season tour was Barcelona. so we obviously we played against him in Seattle so we were just running around the pitch trying to kick shit out of him you couldn't get near him because he was that good but I think as a memorable one that's probably one that's up there okay that's a good one right let's click on with the episode and first up is Luke Manchester City first time in 10 years or over 10 years you're going into a season without Pep Guardiola is there obviously you've got the disappointment, you know it was happening, but is there any sort of excitement around something new, something fresh?

4:52I think it's exciting. I think a lot of City fans are in the same boat that obviously were very grateful for what Pep did but it's done now so we've got to try and move on. It's been an exciting summer and Mureska coming in, I'm pretty confident he can do a good job and like I said then, it's been 10 years, that's nearly half my lifetime ago so even for the older fans as well, it's 10 years, 10 years without the best manager we've ever had so there's excitement, got some good signings potentially some more business to be done as well but I'm excited for it yeah do you well since Sir Alex Ferguson left at Manchester United what is that about 15, 16 years ago 13 years 13 not finished above us once in that time er

5:36but since then since obviously Ferguson left Manchester United have never won a league title Do you think there's any chance that Man City could go this long or that long without winning a league title since Pep? I highly doubt it. Not one for two years. In the last 17 years, we've had three managers and every single one of them in the first two years has won the league title. So I think based on that pattern, I think we've got a good chance of winning the league and I don't think we'll get near 13 years without winning the league. So you're pretty confident in the next year? Yeah, 13 seasons for a club like City nowadays.

6:10I don't think we'll get close. A club like City? Yeah. What do you mean? A club that's won... But it's happened to a club like Man Utd. Man Utd is a bigger club than Man City. Yeah, but look at the infrastructure. Look at City in the last, you know, like you said, we've not won the league in two years, but before that, we won six in seven. We won four in a row. I don't think that's going to get close to happening under this ownership, this infrastructure. Like I said, the last three managers all won the league in the first two seasons, full seasons, so I can't see it happening. If the best manager in the world couldn't win it for the last two years, you've got someone in who's not as good.

6:36Yeah, but he was there for ten years and he won it six times. You can't just isolate a couple of years. It's the most recent show, I'm not isolating. You are still isolating them. Because he won it so much before that, do you know what I mean? Yeah, but he hasn't got those players and City have spent hundreds and hundreds of millions trying to replace the likes of them. And United haven't spent hundreds of millions as well. We're not talking about United. United have been poor. Yeah, that's the whole point. What I'm saying is, you asked me the question. You're comparing your team to a man United that struggled.

7:00I don't think that's, you know, honest. Yeah, but exactly. So, yeah, that's my exact point. You're comparing City to a United that struggled. I don't think we're going to struggle for 13 seasons like that. Luke, do you think City can win the league without Rodri? Yeah, I do. Maybe not immediately, but I think we definitely can. You look at, you know, we've lost some big players. KDB went, De Bruyne went two seasons ago now. Bernardo's gone, Rodri potentially on the way out. I think it'll be a lot tougher, don't get me wrong. I was talking about this season, I'm not looking. I think we could. We could win the league.

7:29Obviously, I think the chances are lower. But you look at, you know, Elliot Anderson coming in. We're going to have to spend quite a bit in the midfield. It looks like we're signing the Moroccan kid as well, Bouhadi, for a decent chunk. And I don't know when this is going out, but there's a chance of Enzo Fernandes as well. So, you know, we're stacking up the midfield. What are your feelings on Elliot Anderson? 116 million. I think he's top. I think he's a top player. And I think, you know, he's good at the World Cup. But even before that, I think he'll have been on City's radar a long time. And I think he's one of the best English talents about.

7:57He's still only 23. Big transfer fee. I'm sure people will talk about it. But, you know, we've seen Arsenal's business with Rice and that more than worked out for them. So, I'm pretty happy with it. What are you thinking about Muresa? Because you know him. He's been in the league. You watch this Chelsea team. Was there any other managers that you wanted? Or is the fan base happy with Mareske? Yeah, I think maybe when it was first talked about, I think maybe more of the conversation was about Pep leaving than who we were getting. There's obviously going to be some pressure on him coming in, taking over from Pep.

8:26I get that. But I think it does help that he's been at the club before. He's been in the league before. And I think settling in will be a little bit easier than just a random name coming out of a different league that's never been here before. I think that will help him bed in a little bit. I think it'll be a lot easier for him to settle in. because he's obviously been there before, as you said. I was a little bit critical of Mureska when he went to Chelsea, actually. But I actually think he did all right. I think he did well and I still think he'll do well. Now, in regards to Elliot Anderson, obviously a brilliant player, I think he changed Elliot Anderson because when I first saw him at Newcastle, I thought he was an attacking midfield player.

9:00He's brilliant going forward, number eight, box to box. He's almost changed into that Rodri role in a little bit. if Rodri stays how does that work so I think I do kind of see where you're coming from with the attacking aspect I think but I think he'll probably play more of a box to box I think if Rodri was to stay I think he'll go back to that yeah the last couple of years the last two or three years I think we might play kind of two in there with England as well I think you look at the control Rodri has on a game and I don't think you can almost mimic that without having two players in there in terms of Rodri's a unique player Rodri's very used to that one yeah that very Spanish role of that one number six.

9:37He's very used to that. Look, it looks like Rodri's going to go in. Yeah. But if that does happen, I'd be worried for Elliot Anderson's game time, from all honesty. I think he'll play almost every game, to be fair, regardless of whether Rodri stays. I think he's been brought in and maybe that role might change slightly, but I think City are probably, at the moment anyway, planning for a future without Rodri, the way it's looking. Yeah, it looks like it. I'd just keep him me. I'd definitely. 100%. I'd just go, you can go for nothing in a year. that's what I think City can afford to do that I don't think City can win the league this year without him I think if Rodri stays I think you've got a good chance of the league the reason I say that is that I just have a feeling that Arsenal may be so like got to the Champions League final they've won the league now they obviously want to win the league again I get that but I just think if it got to March in April and they were still in the Champions League arsenal I think they'd have more of an eye on that and I think Juiz would want to win the Premier League back after going a couple of years without winning it Mureska's first season and I just think if Rodri's there he's still the best in that position I think if he goes I think it's very difficult for you I think you make a really good point there Jimmy it flip-flops a little bit because Arsenal have won the league last year all of a sudden the Champions League and they've never won it they've also never attained the Premier League it becomes a little bit more of a priority whereas City they'll be hurting from the last two years I think right the main job for us now is to get back and try and win that Premier League yeah I think the Rodri one is strange because you know there's some people saying keep him I think the club's policy's always been if a player wants to go it happened with Bernardo quite a few times they can go as long as the right fee comes in the right fee never arrived for Bernardo so he essentially ended up going for free this summer with Rodri Real Madrid were knocking at the door then it seems he wants to go to Barca Barca haven't put up the money at the time of recording so if they don't put up 70-80 million which I personally think probably an undervaluation personally I know he's got a year left I think that was under Pep though when Pep always thought look at what I've got I'll always find something else.

11:36Now you've got a new manager coming in and taking the City's best playbook under his nose. I think he's invaluable. If it was up to me, I'd 100 % keep him. And if he was to leave for free in a year, leave for free in a year. But I think, yeah, if Barcelona put in that money, I think he'd probably go. But I'm not sure whether they will. And that's why, you know, I've got some confidence he could stay. And I want him to stay. He wants out, though. He clearly wants out. Yeah, he wants to go. Of course he wants to go. But, you know, Harry Kane wanted to leave Tottenham. I'm listening Why are you asking?

12:05I would give more examples than that Harry Kane wanted to leave Tottenham Hazard wanted to leave Chelsea happens with players and sometimes they can't get out the door Well I'm going to bring Martin in because I'm going to ask Martin a question is Rodri looking to get out before these 115 charges come along I mean where are we up to with these charges Martin? I can't really believe because we talked about this a year ago when I was here Two years ago well two years ago and last year He said before, sorry, how long, when did this first come out? Are we talking, are we three years down? January 2023 it was.

12:36So three years. Almost four. Yeah, February it was, yeah, February 2020. Yeah, but I mean, if you think, actually, I think the Premier League's investigation started in 2017. I mean, it's like nine years ago. It's incredible. And I mean, I noticed actually this season the Premier League have changed its rules, so for future cases, that the panel has to be appointed, that they're going to, I think it says, deal with it timely and whoever's sitting on the panel can't take on other cases, which could delay the outcome, which sounds like this has been the problem here. The three people on the panel have been involved in other very sort of lengthy cases as well.

13:18But also clearly they want to make absolutely sure that they're going to get the decision is going to be legally watertight. because if there's going to be some serious sanctions, absolutely Man City will challenge them and appeal against them. Just a little thing, and I know it's a completely different scale, but obviously Chelsea got a fine, I think, a few months ago in terms of things that were going on with Roman Abramovich. Now, I think the Premier League desperately don't want to sort of go against our clubs because they don't want to say, 10 years ago that league didn't count or were taking that league off this or and I look at what Chelsea almost it looks like they got away with it a little bit I think it's because of the things they got do you think there's anything to do with sort of the City case going forward do you think that'll have any bearing on the fact that you know there is a worry about looking back and almost saying you know the Premier Leagues of five or six years ago don't count it's not great for the actual Premier League or the brand is it or the competition That's why I think Chelsea got away with that a little bit, because they didn't want to go back and say, well, something doesn't count there, or we give them a fine rather than look them back.

14:32Yeah, I think Chelsea got away with a lot, actually. And certainly, if it had been the same ownership, I think it would have been different. But yes, they did self-report, but if you look at some of the things they did, I mean, it was like secret payments to players and agents and stuff like that. I mean, I imagine Manchester City looked at those cases and the outcomes and the judgments of the Chelsea ones, both the Premier League and the FA decisions, really, really closely because they'll be thinking the Premier League, this panel, whatever they do to us, they better not be strayed too far from the approach they took with Chelsea.

15:14I mean, the big difference perhaps is the cooperation. So some of the charges against Man City for non-cooperation over five years. That wasn't brought against Chelsea because obviously they cooperated very strongly with their investigation. So that's a big difference. But generally, I think it could well have a bearing on the City case when it eventually comes in five years' time. Yeah, yeah. Well, we'll see. We'll get there eventually. Joe from the paddock, Manchester United. how are you feeling going into this season I mean there's not been a lot of drama about United it doesn't feel to me in terms of signings you know you haven't gone massive in terms of what you'd have spent is that sort of making you feel a bit better about United in some ways or do you want to are they still well short I think we're still a little bit short but I like the fact that it seems to have come in with Carrick and his personality but the circus element is dying down a lot around United at the moment and everything we do being this crazy extreme of transfer fees and wages and third in the league then 16th and everything's just this crazy flip-flop over the last sort of 13 years and Carrick seems to have brought us back to being like a football club first where you go and watch the game you enjoy the game and then you look on social media and it's not absolute meltdown obviously that comes with winning loads of games so that's been great but I do feel as though we're seeing a club run like a football club not everything and there's still loads of stuff that need to be done but I think there's almost like two things to the summer I think there's the things that they have done and the things that they haven't done I think the things they have done are really good I like Tielemans I like Santos the things they haven't done I still think we need another striker a left back a midfielder but we you know what's been the the big crazy rumors the big carnage around United this summer there hasn't been any and I don't think that's a coincidence that Carrick with his sort of calm and generally sort of quiet demeanor has allowed United to be a football club first rather than this sort of showpiece circus that everyone gets on social media and in the media and writes crazy things about.

17:17Last summer went quite well for you, didn't it, in terms of the players that you brought in, obviously get to the sort of the Champions League. So do you think that there's a confidence now in the fan base about how the club's being run? There was a lot of stick for Ratcliffe, wasn't there? Yeah. And Wilcox and I think Berard when they initially came in and different things going on and the appointment of, obviously, Amaran was not great. But from sort of the recruitment side, is that why this season and there doesn't seem to be a lot of pressure from the fans, from, we need this, we need that, you need to be doing that.

17:46It almost feels like there's a bit more trust there in what's going on. I think off the pitch, there's a lot of stuff that people aren't happy with. People losing their jobs, cutbacks, this thing where people were getting locked out of their season tickets and having them revoked because they were letting family members use them and stuff like that. That seems to have been this real strict business-first approach. Is that a Glazer thing, though? Well, I don't think so. I don't know, obviously, I'm not in the room, but it feels as though Ineos are running pretty much everything at United at the moment.

18:12And what was originally this sort of mandate to handle the football side, what isn't the football side of a football club? That's everything. It's a football sort of organisation, isn't it? So that seems like it's an Ineos thing. But on the pitch and the transfers, look at the hit rate we had over the last 10 years before they came in. It was, what, one in three, one in four maybe that did all right. Bruno Fernandes being one of the only real proper successors of the transfer market, since Ferguson left and since we saw so much turmoil. Since Ineos have come in, I think you're looking at over 50 % in terms of have they been good enough, have they been worth the money, would you make that transfer again?

18:51And you mentioned last summer, Sesco and Bermot and Cunha in particular, all decent money, big money, not by this summer standards, but 50, 60, 70 million, all really good. And then you've got these gems like Lomans, who was one of the signers of the season. Was he 20 million quid, 23 million? We didn't do that for the previous 12, 13 years under Woodward and the Glazers. So there has to be a bit more confidence. But I do think you look at it and you go, well, we lost Casemiro. Yugate's out all season and we've replaced them with two midfielders. So man for man, we've not really strengthened that much.

19:23But I think the quality of those players is really evident. And I think you've got to have a little bit of confidence and a little bit of faith because, like I said, that improvement, we're seeing it on the pitch. We're seeing players performing week in, week out in a way we just didn't see before. So, I don't know. They've made mistakes, but I think, generally speaking, the people I speak to, there's a confidence that United aren't going to have these huge ups and downs anymore. But obviously, there's a lot to be said. I think you're making a really good point. I think that comes from Michael's character.

19:50That's what Michael is, and he's just calm, relaxed, and never get too high, never get too low. I think where you have to judge what business United have done is what you're expecting from them. Are you expecting to challenge for the league? I still think that's a little bit away with business that's been done. I think on the recruitment point of view, they seem to be doing it in different sections over the last two or three years. You felt like last year they started the forward line out. I think the forward line is much, much better. It's more dangerous. Could possibly still do with a centre forward, as you said, to help Sesko a little bit.

20:25He's still young and he got better towards the end of the season. There's no doubt about that. it feels like they've prioritised now the middle of the pitch. Now, I always felt the middle of the pitch was a problem last year, and I still think that, not just from centre midfield, but centre half as well. Every team that had joy against us, Jamie, you did on those again, it always felt it was right down the middle because of the lack of pace and mobility in there. Now, after they addressed that a little bit, I've hardly seen Santos play that. It's unfair to judge him, really. You've got to give the lead a chance.

20:58I still think they might need something else in there. Because I think Tielemann's a brilliant footballer, clever, intelligent, can score great goals, can great passes, can control the game. But again, athleticism isn't his strength. Pretty much in the mould of Cobbett-Mainer, really. I think they're very similar. So it will be one of them with another. Whether that's Santos or someone else they bring in, I don't know. But I still think there's that problem down the... I still think centre-halves. I still think they need centre-halves. I don't think these are of the quality. Where I'm judging Man United is to go and try and win the Premier League.

21:33Now, Jamie, you played centre-half. Centre-half is a position where you need people who are reliable every single week. Now, look, you are always going to pick up injuries, but I think a Man United centre-halves down the years, they're available all the time. Now, we've got Maguire, who's started to pick up some niggles. Lissandro Martinez he just the lad can't stay fit now when he's fit he's a good player don't get me wrong they've got Leni Jorow who has struggled I'd say the last two years it looks like the level is a little bit above him but he's still young and he might come on Aidan Heaven I think he's a really good young talent he's a really good young talent he's young he's still going to make mistakes but I think he's played every game pre-season I think Michael might be looking to try and get him in so I still think and a big area of the pitch is that spine of him just to make him more solid, give him more legs and have more reliability at centre half.

22:29I think you didn't even mention De Ligt there because of how long he's been out. Well, exactly. That's the thing, it's the same thing. And he's possibly, if he's fit and playing every week, he's possibly Man United is best centre half. But again, that's a question mark against centre half. You can't have them question marks against centre half. You mentioned as well about what is the aim for the season. I think when you look around, there's no other club that hasn't had a massive change. I think if they really went for this Especially manager wise Yeah managers or players leaving or whatever it may be or injuries when it comes to Arsenal and maybe changes to rules that might hurt them more than it hurts other people I think if we really went for it this summer there's a chance we could challenge and when we see the points tally under Carrick I don't think it's that ludicrous to suggest what he could do over half a season he could do over a full season but at the moment that's the gap isn't it The thing he'll have to deal with now the thing he's going to have to deal with now is midweek football as well Yeah He had an unbelievable run last year winning games, but it was all in his favour.

23:24Do you know what I mean? Now all of a sudden. And you talk about these extra games we'll have Champions League-wise, again, that will impact on the squad. We spoke about it. You spoke about left-back. You might probably need another left-back. Luke Shaw, for the first year ever last year, his availability rate was unbelievable. He played nearly every game. But this year, can he do that from Tuesday, Wednesday, Saturday, Sunday? He's not doing 55 games, is he? No, I can't say it. If there was one player right now out there realistically, who are you looking at thinking, I hope Manchester United are going by him?

23:57In terms of realistic ones, Lewis Hall feels like a good option because he's one of the few players that's about where you don't feel like you're just chucking money at a fix rather than someone that's a genuine target. He's 21 years old, one of the best left-backs in the league already. He would be great and it helps Luke Shaw out. It helps a position that we're actually going to need someone. I'd be interested in going for an Ollie Watkins or someone like that or even a Mateta at Palace I think that I mean, you know I know he had poor spells last season but I think he's a good player but I think that we really need someone when Sesko's not right I think that's a priority position though because when Jamie mentions one player you try and think of a position where it's needed most I think we've got players who can cover that I think Kuhn can play centre forward and Bermond can play centre forward and you've still got I don't know what's going to happen with Marcus Rashford, but again, there's another option in that area.

24:48I still think either centre-half or central midfield is a priority. Midfield, I agree, definitely. I just don't know what the name is. Adam Wharton. It's all gone quiet with him, though, hasn't it? I'd have done Sonale. I'd have been out a little bit of Sonale. What do you think of Rashford? Oh, well, I think if he stays, you've just got to get behind him. You've got to support him and want him to do well. And we've seen him do so many good things for United down the years that I don't think it'll take a lot for people to start rallying behind. It feels like a lot of the United fans. When you say central midfield, what type are we looking for?

25:22That destructive type again? They've spoke about the Tua Mane's or the Camavingas at Real Madrid. Yeah, Tua Mane would be great, but it feels like it's going to be £110 million,£350 grand a week, all the stuff we were talking about before that we don't do. That's what it is now, don't we? I know, I know. Are you surprised? I thought, and I was a little bit worried, I thought, that could be a good sign. the Fernandes fella I know you're talking about Tonali but I just thought because of his age Fernandes you know you think what was he 21 you're thinking that's someone when he went to Tottenham yeah was you surprised he never went for Tonali I thought he was going to go for Fernandes and go for him and then they said it was too expensive but was it that expensive 85 I know it's a lot but it's like he's been relegated the last two years I know what I'm saying is did that feel like a lot to you 85 I mean you're never going to get a really top midfield then how are you I think for sort of 50 million probably not but we've got Tielemans for 35 I know but it was a buyout clause it was a buyout clause but Cunha was a buyout clause and then we used that fee as a reference to getting Bermott so if you do things smartly and no offence to Tottenham I think they needed to do this but I think we saw United spend the equivalent of an 85 on Mateus Fernandes when we got Anthony or when we got Hoyland and it didn't help us if you know signing the wrong player for loads of money or even signing the right player for loads of money can hurt their chances of succeeding like Maguire for 80 million probably not worth it but the same player what's he played?

26:45250 games for United you can't say he hasn't been a success but he probably still hasn't been worth that fee so I think good players for good fees is great but a good player for too much money can still be a failure of a signing and we've seen that you know What do you think United fans will be happiest with most? Tielemans for like 39 million 35 million? Yeah Or Bayern Tornado for 100 million? I think before the season starts you're excited for that£100 million player 100 % I agree with that but I just think that the expectation and the pressure is so high that you have to do so much to earn that back and I think if United signed a player for£100 million and finished sixth it almost doesn't matter how good they were it's a disgrace it's a failure Pogba was a lot better for United than people think he was but because he was playing in a team that was finishing fourth and then sixth and fifth and it was like well he's not one of the league so he's terrible Yeah, that's almost like when you buy some of that much he's brought into me The thing with Telemans because I was I was flicking over from the Super Cup and the United Friendly last night I was watching the Super Cup and I'd just seen that I couldn't believe Man United were on ITV playing league you know, so put it on and I was just watching with his son and it just come to me a little bit Telemans was taking a corner and it just come to me with that like I think he's a good player don't get me wrong but you'd almost feel like he should have been at United a few years and then gone to Villa not being at Villa then going to United it's almost like I'm not saying he's had his best days but almost felt like the wrong way round the last three years should have been at Man United and then he gets sold for Villa he stepped down now that wasn't he yeah he's um well this just goes back to how terribly how old is Stevenson is he 30?

28:2329? yeah okay it goes back to how terrible we've been in the transfer market like anything that happened pre-2025 you can't even you can't even put logic on it you know some of the players we let go like the amount like Ander Herrera leaving for free, Pogba leaving for free, when we could have sold him two years before, before he started getting injured every week. There's so many things, if you try and analyse it, you literally just go mad because it doesn't make any sense. Some of the players in the field, I think Hoyland, they wanted 30-something million for him, and then by the end of the window, we've given him 70 somehow.

28:54People who were even in the room have said, we were kind of getting our feet under the table, we didn't really know how this was going to work. You think, well, how are we expected to make sense of it? We want United to win games and to look like a competent club. And nothing makes sense. Yeah, Tielemans, when he left Leicester, should have come to Man United. That would have made loads of sense. But the second best time to get him is now for 35, I guess. Tielemans for 35 is an absolute bargain. He's been unbelievable for us. His consistency, his ability to play in the 6th, the 8th, the 10th. I mean, when we signed him from Leicester, I had Leicester fans telling me he was finished.

29:27His legs have gone, he doesn't want to know. And he's been nothing but brilliant for us. I'm not sure how much you're missing, though, because like you said, Jamie, them two games, but I was flicking a little bit and I'm watching him and I'm like, Jesus Christ, do you like a bit more energy about him? Some good, really young players. Yep. I still think you do okay with that one.

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32:29From 30 for 30 Podcasts This is The Betrayal of Shohei Ohtani Listen now wherever you get your podcasts

32:43Welcome back to the fan debate You may have seen as part of Gillette's Shirt Off campaign, our friend Wrighty has been campaigning for the yellow card for taking your shirt off to be revoked. We want to know what you, the fans, think of the decision. A player receiving a yellow card for removing his shirt, but first, Scolese. Were you ever carded for taking your shirt off? No. Have you seen my body? You ever take your shirt off? No. Do you know what I threatened to? Once Giggs scored his goal in the semi-final, Giggsie's doing that with his top half. You come to me and I take my top half. I don't know what it was.

33:18I might get to there. Oh, ho. That isn't happening. So, no, I haven't. But, listen, you mentioned that. And that is one of the iconic moments. The goal's the most iconic moment of it. But one of the, obviously, that makes the goal probably even more special is Giggsie pulling the shirt off, isn't he? Seeing the airy chest, seeing the physique. The Velcro chest, yes. Yeah, yeah. What's wrong with that? exactly that's what I mean everyone was happy to see that weren't you except Arsenal Arsenal are the fans to be honest right then we'll go to the floor so we've got here Justin what do you what do you think about it well I've got an example here that you're probably going to mention I'll let you mention it probably a famous one for Aston Villa oh Ginola oh that was one I can remember him yeah when he was told Gregory said he put a bit of timber on didn't he yeah you were able to see Ginola get his top off weren't you my wife probably was what is your thought about it yeah I think it's ridiculous that's the game isn't it that's what you want you want the passion you want the immediacy of that emotion exploding when you score so to see a player like I mean Philip Hart like you say Giggsie that's iconic isn't it over his head and they still do it now anyway don't they so to get a yellow card I mean if you get sent off for one of them being that it's ridiculous isn't it let's take Giggsie out of it because I think that would be the one that everyone would sort of remember iconically in terms of taking the shirt off.

34:46What is another, like, someone whipping it off that you remember? Forlan. Aguero. Forlan, what's that one? Dago Forlan, yeah. Not been able to get it back on. Oh, yeah. Having to stand on the side of the pitch trying to get his shirt back on. Who was that against? Was it Liverpool? Or was it not Liverpool? No, wasn't it his first goal? Maybe it was, yeah. Who was the Newcastle player that killed? Kicked the hoardings and took his top off. Ketsbuyer. Ketsbuyer, yeah, yeah. But we all remember them, don't we? The only problem is though, Arteta's going to find a way where he makes everyone take the shirt off after every goal to slow the game down.

35:16Like a minute break for every goal to waste time. That'll be the problem if there's no yellers. I think it's only ever like a political... If there was just showing some sort of political branding. Yeah. So if a player does that, fine, book him. And if it's just a bare chest then... Why was me? Did he get booked? The trouble is no player has a bare chest anymore. That was iconic. They've all got tattoos, haven't they? Yeah. That's a problem. I always remember Duncan Ferguson obviously he's a hero legend for you know for Everton supporters but one of us you probably were you playing the game? I was thinking United I think probably mid 90s I think it was one of his first goals for Everton and he took the shirt off he's running he did do that as well yeah exactly but I just think those moments he can do what he wants by the way exactly big Duncan but those moments you just remember them don't you we need to get them back in the game don't we is there a goal that would want to make you take your shirt off.

36:10What goal is there? Overhead kick. Like Bale or someone in the Champions League final. You just slapped in an overhead kick. If it's the goal of the season, you know it is. I think you're taking your shirt off. You remember Charleston getting the equaliser three all against Liverpool and he's run off taking his shirt off and then Liverpool have gone on the score four or three. But he did, what's that celebration he does with Charleston? Chicken. It's the strangest celebration in football, but I'm here for it. But yeah, to take your shirt off equalising Anfield, which we very rarely get a point, For then Liverpool to score directly afterwards, it was a bit embarrassing.

36:41Did he do it against United as well this season? Probably. You've got to love him. Come on, Nelson. Right, it seems like we all agree about what we want to happen. So this campaign with Gillette and Wrighty we hope succeeds. So just to make sure we're all in the same camp. So we want to basically see footballers whipping their shirts off, celebrating when scoring goals, yes? Yeah. I'm all for that. Anyone against it? No? No. Right.

37:13We're going to go to Flav, a team who are splashing the cash and a fan base who are maybe getting a little bit carried away. What do you mean? Including you? You're saying you think there's a chance they could finish top. Who told you that? Well, that's what it's got written here. Is it Dave? I was joking. It was a WhatsApp message between two friends. I was just going to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't realise it would be put on me like that. I just look, you talked about Fernandes, you talked about Sonali, and the reality is this summer, when Spurs knocked the door, the players answered. So, you know...

37:47They had some moneybags over the shoulders, to be fair. Yeah, yeah. Do you want to go to United? I don't want to go to Spurs. Fernandes was, you know, was even linked with Real Madrid, and he was like, do you know what? I'm not interested. I'm coming to Spurs. It's maybe this smug arrogance that's winding people up, probably, but it's just that the football club, whether people like it or not, has changed. Daniel Levy is gone and there is a new impetus and a new desire to make Tottenham into a decent footballing outfit, which we haven't been for a long, long time. And it was actually down to the good work of Daniel Levy that put us in a position this season where we can spend the money.

38:21I'll start praising him now. No, no, you have to accept the work. Don't get me wrong, it was 100 % the correct decision to boot him out of the club. It's just, people were scratching their heads, how can Spurs spend 100 million on Tonali or an 85 million on Fernandes and 53 million on Van Hecker, they're looking at him going, why can Spurs spend that money? And the answer to that is because Daniel Levy. The irony, though, is if Daniel Levy was here, he wouldn't have done it. So, like, the thing on TalkSport with Van Hecker and apparently Daniel Levy sent Simon Jordan a text message saying we've had our pants pulled down.

38:58Is that real? Is that Daniel Levy's actually saying that? And that shows you what Daniel Levy is about. we've just sold Jed Spence to Inter Milan, it looks like that's going to happen, for probably less than his value but it's just about getting stuff done and being proactive in the transfer market and so while Spurs won't win the league this year we're operating like a football club that has the ambition to be competitive Do you think the business that you've done and the money that you've spent it was a little bit eye-opening, especially Tenali's fee, you think like£100 million do you think that comes from the power De Zerbe had and the hold he's got on the club in terms of he wasn't sure about coming in.

39:34They give him a really big contract. If I stay up, I want this, this or this, and I'm going. It's almost like they had to give him what he wants. Which is great. It works out for me because we wanted to see this sort of ambition and level of spending for a long, long time. So he came in at a time when we were probably dead and buried. I was genuinely, like, the last six months of following Spurs had been the most miserable of my life. And he come in and he saved us. He didn't, by all reports, want him to be there. Offered a big contract, that's fine. but it was how we were going to support him in the transfer market.

40:04It was actually less Tonali, less Fernandes and more Van Hecker because Daniel Levy wouldn't have done that deal. I know I keep talking about Daniel Levy but he wouldn't have signed him with a year left when we had Romero who should be booted out of the football club. So it was that signing, giving him the defender that he's worked with previously that knows his system, knows him when we already had Romero and Vuskovic who's gone to Brighton for 50 million. We had those players. so that showed you the intent the fact that that was done early I think but yeah he has control I think he has almost as much power as any manager as Arteta probably has at Spurs so it's not the way modern football generally clubs are structured this does pose a potential problem down the line that if De Zerbe was sacked or decided to leave there's a big hole because everything was built around his vision but we didn't have a choice we were put in this position or we put ourselves in this position by not signing players properly in January and previously not bolstering the squad and finishing 17th twice.

41:04We had to hand over the power to the Zerbe and gamble and hopefully it works out right. Well, there is excitement and that's what you need as a supporter. We've all got that, especially Spurs. Obviously stayed up, got a new manager and now he's all sort of loved. And I have been listening to Spurs supporters and it has felt like, oh, OK. Everyone's almost thinking, no problem getting Champions League football. What do you think is realistic for Spurs this season considering, you know, was it 17th two years running? You know it was 17th two years running. You know that, right? Everybody knows that.

41:36I was reminded by four people walking in, going, oh, good to see you back. So yes, it was 17th. It's going to be a massive jump, but... Would you be disappointed if it wasn't Champions League football? No, I'd be understanding of a Europa League finish if it's like top six. I'd be thinking we're moving in the right direction. but I think you mentioned the fact that there is a transitional field to the top half of the Premier League Arsenal are stable United probably stable then you've got Liverpool and Areola which undoubtedly will end up being an incredible partnership but will struggle early doors Man City Moreski you're not quite sure so there might be an opportunity to get through but top six I'd be happy with 100 % Scholes where do you see Spurs?

42:18Yeah around that six and seven spot I really like the manager I think he's good. I still think if you're going to go to that Champions League level, you're still going to need different positions. You're going to need a goalkeeper. I think a goalkeeper is a big one for you. And a centre-forward. Yeah, I mean, most people probably... You'll remember Kinski as our goalkeeper. Remember what happened in Madrid. Yeah, after Madrid. He did well, though, didn't he, in the last season? He did well after that, yeah. He has. And he has the right profile to play under De Zerbe in terms of he's really good with his feet.

42:47And he made some massive saves. He kept us in the league with some of the saves he'd made. so we're putting a lot of hope in a young Czech goalkeeper and it might be an issue might not you needed to move on from Vakario oh mate I'm sure he's a lovely player he's still actually there though isn't he still there isn't he Vakario Vakario's still there somehow yeah I mean he hasn't played the Bravka's been the number two brought in so he's a third choice goalkeeper he's got to go he's just yes he's not he's not there he's always blaming people when you watch every goal he's like pointing at everyone else Yeah, yeah, literally Harry Wilson scored a goal against him.

43:23Yeah, yeah. Walking around, this is your fault. Where are your goals going to come from this year? That's going to be a big issue, isn't it? Yeah, there's a forward issue. Solanke can't stay fit and Richarlison, it's time for him, I mean, it's been time for a couple of years for him to go. So we need, despite spending lots of money, we still need to spend... Madison Bacalhap as well, creativity. Yeah. What about Kulisovsky, what's happening with him? So he's back on the pitch. It's been 14 months since he took that knock. Remember Andrew Postercogli said he's just a knock. He'll be back next week.

43:53It's been 14 months. Had a really, really bad injury. That's a, I think it was a, I can't remember. It was a patella injury, but specifically the kneecap came away from the leg. It's pretty grim. But he's on the pitch and he's doing ball work. But we're still, I mean, he won't be fit. It's a while, yeah. I'm going to go, sorry, Fran, we're just going to go to Toby next year. But when we're talking about Champions League, and the reason I asked you was because I think there's a real opportunity for Spurs and Chelsea without European football. next season to make a real fist of it. Because I think there's a lot of questions about United playing more European games here.

44:26Aiola coming in as well. Unai Emery and Aston Villa losing a lot of their best players in the Champions League as well. So I think there's a real opportunity for Spurs and Chelsea to get into those positions. So Toby, it's your debut on the show. And, you know, great to have you with us. How excited are you about Alonso coming in? Because you've had a lot of managerial change under the ownership. does this feel like this could be the man? It feels like the most Chelsea appointment under this ownership so far or what was the predecessor. It feels like someone who's got a CV that backs himself up that the players can look at and go, okay, that's a career I'd want to emulate.

45:03So that's been something that's been really nice to see. Even the transfer targets, we've gone from shopping in primary school to a bit of the bingo hall with Henderson and Welbeck, but we have got some more established players. I kind of feel like at this point, even the likes of Caicedo and Parma and Gio Pedro they've had a number of years of Premier League experience so it's kind of time to I feel like stop letting them get away with being a young squad it is time to deliver but the fact that we have no Europe it is just such a big factor and I don't know it is a promising time because I think it was the last time we finished 10th signed a wing back called Marco and played back three we won the league so it's kind of hard not to get inside I feel like I'm two older players it feels like you've gone from one extreme I can't get my head around it one extreme too so you've got a load of 21 year olds alright get some more experience maybe 28, 29 but it's like 37, 38 you two were expecting the call weren't you yeah give me a couple of weeks I'll be alright yeah I feel like the Henderson one looks it's almost like we've bought him and I can just see him being on Alonso's maybe coaching staff down the line that's just how it feels I bet he's not on coaching wages yeah probably not but I think Xhaka was like the perfect blend when we were linked to him earlier in the game I got a lot of one that felt like Yeah, I get that.

46:15Because that's still the level. And he's still a good player, brilliant in the World Cup, you know, you still, you get that one. Yeah, they're a very naive squad though, like we broke the record for red cards last season. I mean, they beat Barcelona and not turn up the next week. That's my point on that. So when, and that's why I find it strange is because I think the signing from Crystal Palace is really good. I think that's understandable. You've got a young centre-back, he comes in, he knows the league, he's an experienced player. But you're talking about we had an issue on the pitch in terms of red cards, I think losing losing leads or throwing leads away how much are they going to be on the pitch?

46:50Henderson and Welbeck that's my point so if they were if they were 28, 29 or 30 or say like Telemans or something like that you know that age bracket it's just I can understand oh they'll be great on the training pitch and I know we're going to get hit with those stories if Chelsea make a great start it'll be oh Welbeck and Henderson great in the draft you can imagine reading the Carabao Cup won't we? Carabao Cup yeah but my point being is in terms of helping you with discipline which Chelsea need helping you with maybe seeing games out no they could come on last 10-15 minutes of the game but what Chelsea need help with is that experience on the pitch I understood Jordan Henderson going to the World Cup people say he's not going to play that much it's only a six week there's going to be seven or eight players who aren't going to play when you've got a squad of 22 at some stage over a 10-11 month season you're going to need them all at some stage I know he's not going to play every week and he will add things off the pitch but I think what you need the experience on the pitch I'd actually look at the lad from Crystal Palace as probably more valuable than probably Jordan Henderson coming in Yeah I mean it's definitely about strengthening the first team Do you not think there'll be like an impact maybe even down to training ground wise we had last year I think Enzo spoke out Kukurela spoke out under a senior and there was a bit of a mutiny going I think that's where he'll expect the most that's where they've got the most influence on the training pitch aren't they basically because they're not going to be playing all the time especially Henderson now I think Welbeck will still get He'll come on I just think he comes on doesn't he Yeah, of course.

48:14I think that's where probably the most valuable is the training. Look, if Chelsea have got money to waste doing that, then it's down to them. I do think this is a real chance for Chelsea to really get back in amongst them because of the no Europe and there's obviously a little bit of turmoil of some of the other clubs. I think it's a real opportunity for Chelsea. Yeah, I think we'll be fine. The year before, last was fourth and that was with... Colwell was a big loss for us last season, centre-back-wise. Centre-backs and keepers, they've been ignoring for a number of years and Colwell was kind of the only one there and him being out, but now he's got Lacroix and it feels more secure.

48:49I think it's, even with the Henderson-Wilwick one, as much as it might be questioned at the moment, I think as a Chelsea fan, it's just encouraging to see them doing something different that isn't what they were doing before, whereas just kids, like it's nice to see them wake up to change. As it being a three at the back in pre-season, because the first couple of games, I saw it was a four, because I was keeping an eye on it basically because I thought that was one of the reasons why maybe Liverpool didn't go near Alonso because of the system he was playing and I saw he was a back four in the first few games, but I think the last couple has gone to a back three, has he?

49:16Yeah, as the squad's got bigger with more people coming back, they moved to a three the weekend and they've just signed another wing-back. So they've got a left and right wing-back specific. He doesn't look like a back four kind of right back to me from what I'd seen in preseason. I've got to ask you about Morgan Rodgers. Where's he going to fit in? Are you excited by that? Have you massively overpaid? I think he's a fair bit. A fair bit over probably what he'd be worth. But I don't know. It's a good signing for us. and also I think Palmer needs it I mean Palmer needs a good season this season and having someone else to worry about for an opposing team will help him in that regard and I do like Morgan Rodgers you know he can score from outside the box he's a nice player I think he'll kind of play a bit of a way I think Vert's kind of played at Leverkusen in that sort of left number 10 with wing backs beside them so I think that's where he'll be Justin I want to bring you in like Scolzi I watched Yazidi in the Super Cup and when I saw the team sheet obviously still missing a few players from the World Cup I was mightily impressed with the performance that you put in against their PSG and it just I mean I thought Unai Emery looked amazing on the side of the pitch with their t-shirts on the slicked back he looked fantastic and he's just he's just every year now we'll see how the season goes but you know you lose players and he just seems to continually produce the goods I mean where are you on Villa right now is it a worry what you've lost so far and what could could potentially lose going four before the window closes?

50:43No, because this is where we are every summer. I think every time I come on here to start the season, it's the same argument. We've lost a few players, big players, big names, players that have been really impactful for us. But like you say, every year we find a way. And the reason is because we now have the best manager in the Premier League now Pep's gone. I mean, losing Morgan to Chelsea is obviously a blow. he's not the finished article by any stretch and it'll be interesting to see how he does in with a sort of inferior coach now because then we got the best out of him you know that training the way he trains our players is ridiculous you know i heard a comment from uri tilliman saying that the training is easy compared to what he was doing at the villa so it's it's interesting to see the evolution now and i felt at the end of last season it was a nice way to end the sort of part one of his era at Villa winning that trophy and it always felt like that that team was going to be broken up it was getting a lot older there was a lot of players in their late 20s early 30s so we needed an impetus of youth to come in and unfortunately where we are financially off the pitch we can't just go out and spend 117 million pound on players we have to sell first so we know that every summer now we're inching closer all the time to breaking through and hopefully being in a position where we we don't have to sell players we can decide to sell a player if we need to but I think the recruitment's been really good I'm really excited for Manzambi and the two young players that everybody now knows they know I mean Brian Maggio is a name you're going to be seeing a lot about this Tell us a little bit more about him Well we signed him last year He was 16 when we signed him £10 million from Mets in France He's got a very interesting story he was born in London but he's played three friendlies for...

52:37Luxembourg, wasn't it? Luxembourg, yes. So he's not tied to them, so he can now play for England. But because of this really weird sort of... Because he was playing abroad, he was barred from playing because he was under 18. So we've had to go to the court of arbitration this summer to argue the case to make him to be able to play and we won that. So now he can play in the Premier League this season but I watched him a lot in pre-season. and he was putting a lot of videos on of his sort of training regime with his personal trainer. And I just kept thinking, this kid can't be 17. He's 6 '4", but he moves really well.

53:13He's quick, he's strong. I mean, he absolutely bullied Paccio and Marquinhos last night. This was his competitive debut. And he could have had a hat-trick in the first half. So it is really exciting. And George Hemmings on the left-hand side, we've got some really, really good young players. He comes through the youth, George. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the first time I'd seen him last night. Yeah. Yeah, he's brought six players in this pre-season. We've got two defenders, Cissé and TJ Carroll, who look really good. We've got Hemmings and Burrows midfielders, and then we've got Lynch and Maggio up front.

53:46It looks like Hemmings and Maggio are the ones that are going to probably be in and around the squad, but I think the signings he's made, I'm really like Gomez from Wolves. That's a really good signing, and if we can keep Kamara fit for the season, and that's a really good pairing in the middle of midfield. You wanted to make a comment, didn't you, on Rory, who's not here with us. Yes. Yeah, his thoughts on one of your signings, Garnaccio. Yeah, Garnaccio, I thought, if I'm honest, I thought it was... I heard his rant, and it was very, very personal rant. You know, I think it was... Very Rory.

54:20So over the top, yeah. Look, you know, I've looked into Garnaccio, and I think a lot of the things Rory said were totally out of order, in my opinion. really, really out of order. You know, a character assassination almost. And yeah, he hasn't had a great time at United. It fell away. But I mean, I would argue at United, he had manager after manager after manager. In that period, it was very, very all over the place. He then went to Chelsea. Probably looking at it now was the wrong move because he went to another club that was just all over the place. And he hasn't settled, but we've had... Emery's had experience of this now.

54:55We brought Rashford in. I was told that it was a bad attitude. it would be terrible for you and he was great for us for the first game he came on he was chasing back he was harrying he was tackling I was thinking this is the Rashford apparently that doesn't care and then we had Sancho for a season now Sancho if anything he didn't really have an impact for us on the pitch so if he is a troublemaker that's probably when he's going to start causing trouble not playing but he was great 12 months he never caused any problems training ground he was great laughing, joking so Garnaccio now is coming to a squad that is very together, knows what they're doing.

55:30It's a good environment to be in. And he's got a couple of Argentinians within Buendia and Martinez. And if he can just settle into the team, Emery will just calm him down. And if we can get the best out of Garnaccio, he's a good player. I don't think there's any question on his talent. We saw it for a while. I mean, you saw little bits about Chelsea's body. His numbers last season were really good. It's always his attitude, really. And I think that was always the issue. Now, as a manager, you always think you'll be the one to sort them out. And look, if Emery can't do that, I can't see who can do that.

56:04But he's got a track record throughout his career, not just at Villa, every club he's been at, he loves to get these players that are sort of being discarded by clubs, but have got natural ability. And he knows if he can just get their heads right, then on the pitch, you've got a really good player there. And we have got this left-hand side now where Rodgers was playing week in, week out. but a guy actually could easily fill that hole. He's a big goal threat, he runs through all the time. But he's brought Hemmings in now to play that role as well, which is very similar to the Ramsey when we had Jacob Ramsey at Villa, that midfielder that can break the lines and run through.

56:39So we're developing this young squad now and at the start of the summer I knew we were facing another season of losing players. I mean, there's still a lot of talk about maybe Conte going to Arsenal but I don't worry about it, I really don't. You know what, you don't get a sense of worry from Emery either, do you? Because he's probably lucky. I think he's probably got a different attitude. He's thinking, yeah, it looks like I'm losing all my best players. I quite like that because I know what's coming. I think he's re-infused. And I think that excites him a bit. Yeah, I think this is the first time that I can remember being a Villa fan, almost 50 this year, that I've got a manager that's actually now sort of evolving a squad.

57:23You know, you obviously played at United for a long time and Fergie was brilliant at it, wasn't he? He knew when that team was coming towards the end and then he'd reinvigorate it, throw a few in. And that's where Villa are now. We are evolving into sort of Emery Mark II and I think he's really engaged with it and he's really excited by it. You can see, like you say, he looks fresh. He looks fit, healthy. He's happy, he's smiling. And I think he gets really excited by these young players. He can mould and get the best out of. And we have got an opportunity, you were saying, about looking at Chelsea and having this opportunity with no European football.

57:57I think Villa have got an opportunity. There's only really Arsenal that have got Arteta. The rest of the other teams around the top have all changed the managers and they're all over the place. Yes, we've lost a couple of players but I think we've replaced them really well and I think the way that it's structured at Villa, the way that we train and the way that everything is sort of integrated through the youth team into the first team, it doesn't worry about it And, you know, I'm very hopeful of another really good season.

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1:00:08Right, Wayne, what are we doing here today? Filming promo for a new podcast, me and Mark Oldbridge. What's the podcast called, Wayne? I don't know. What is it called? Oh, that was good. Wayne is a player. Exactly what Man United was all about. But I'm sure we're not going to agree on everything. What would you think about Mark if you were a current player? Probably think he's just... We'll be reacting to all the games. Do you do your own painting in your house? All the big stories. Just have my socks on and my underpants. Good. Hopefully no sackings. Hopefully. He's gone first, I've voted him.

1:00:40I think we will have to beat. That's why I was saying you can go first. I did. On the volley. United. Oh, perfect. On the pitch, off the pitch. I've got a little goal in my garden. I'd have to save that, to be honest. Stiff United is coming soon. The new season is here. We know football fans love saying the game's gone, but Skybet are celebrating everything that proves the game's back. This is the Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet.

1:01:16Another supporter on my right here, who'll be looking forward to another good season, is Chris from Leeds United. Thank you for joining us. I think it's your debut on the show. I'm reading here you've just literally landed from the pre-season game against Manchester United. Yeah, it's been a bit of a long morning getting over from Dublin after that friendly at Croke Park I say friendly against the most fierce rivals have you been to bed or was it your only Guinness four hour sleeps what is it you said that yeah I mean after after the Guinnesses I was straight out so yeah quite a long week what are you thinking then so you've signed the big sign and that we can all sort of see is the goalkeeper I think it's a good sign and I think he's probably the future England goalkeeper isn't he yeah and I think there's a lot of discourse about his 40 million plus add-ons is it a lot of money to pay for someone who wasn't starting for Manchester City.

1:02:04He's the most expensive British goalkeeper ever. I don't really care about overanalyzing stuff like that. You see him yesterday, and I don't know if you watched the friendly, but he was tremendous, and that was his first 45 minutes. There was a massive save from Mbumo. He made a great save. His distribution was just exactly what you expected from him. And Leeds haven't had a goalkeeper of that quality for two decades. Nigel Martin was the last one that was really of that level. and Leeds had Martin in for the announcement for when Trafford signed. It sort of just showed that we've finally, finally erased all of the terrible goalkeeping positions that we've had for years.

1:02:44As long as I've watched Leeds, we've barely had any good goalkeepers. So it's just so refreshing. Are you confident on the back of last season that you're not coming into this season almost looking over your shoulder or is that worry still there in terms of relegation? I think getting carried away is not wise. I think that's quite a naive thing because I feel like it's quite binary for clubs in Leeds' position. You're either looking over your shoulder and worried or you're getting carried away and thinking Europe's on the cards. And I think a lot of Leeds fans are starting to suggest, is Europe on the cards?

1:03:16Like seeing Sunderland get promoted and go straight up into Europe. But I think as other people have said, the continuity for Carrick and Deserby, managers like that, half of the Premier League is changing the managers. but Daniel Farker had us in with European-level form ever since that change away at Manchester City at the end of November. And we're now building towards more continuity, which is just exactly what we need at the moment. And there was talk of him being sacked probably, I think it was before the start of last season, wasn't there? It was, yeah, there were reports days after we won the league title away at Plymouth that Leeds were considering it.

1:03:52And you could see the argument that his two seasons at Norwich were just absolutely terrible. but Fark has even said it himself for the reason that it didn't work at Norwich is because the board told him we're preparing for relegation and just banking all the money investing in the infrastructure whereas Leeds, the 49ers as much as Leeds fans are a bit pre-programmed to just hate owners they're doing everything that he requires and he said after we beat Brighton on our final home game of this season he did a big speech in front of the fans and everything and he said that he wants to see ambition he doesn't want to just be treading water happy to finish 17 it's about going further up the table and hopefully getting Leeds back to where us Leeds fans believe we belong.

1:04:35Obviously, no team belongs and has a divine right to be up there, but we feel like we should be up there. I think he's done a brilliant job. Yeah, he has. And that pressure, I think he's built a really good team. We were in absolute disarray when he took over after relegation, obviously, when Sam Allardyce left and forget about that. But we were in complete disarray. Second game of the season, we had no players that like Willy Nonto was refusing to play players like that there was legal drama behind the scenes and every year we've drastically improved we've gone from 90 points in the championship missing out on promotion you could argue it was Daniel Farker's fault tactically maybe but then we've built got more balanced won the league on 100 points and then he's got more pragmatic in the Premier League realising the error of his ways previously and become the manager that we need in the Premier League that can adapt play to his own team strengths and just take advantage.

1:05:30Well, you think you've got the manager that you need. What players do you need to make sure you can have that kick, you know, if you're talking about maybe an outside chance of European football? I think the three that we've already got are the big holes in the squad. Obviously, Trafford finally signing a good goalkeeper. Harry Wilson on a freezer. Maybe he's paying him too many wages, but for me, again, it's another statement and the right side, like number 10, sort of where Brendan Aronson was playing last season, as much as Brendan Aronson had a pretty strong season by his standards, signing Wilson, who was one of the best right-wingers in the Premier League last season in terms of output, is quite a significant upgrade.

1:06:08And then Moharamovic at centre-half, 34 million pounds. When we lost Pascal Strauch, you're worried that, because the left-sided centre-back market's quite difficult to find value for money, and we've put 34 million pounds down, and everything we're seeing, I don't know it's only pre-season, but everything we're seeing so far is, this kid is mustard. Like, he is very, very good. So, after that, can't really rely on Dominic Calvert-Lewin too much because it was a miracle that he stayed fit for one full season. Same with Noah Okafor on the left. Both of them tremendous performers for us, good output.

1:06:41But if you're relying on them again, when Okafor looked really unfit yesterday when he came off the bench, I think we are in trouble. Like, if Calvert-Lewin only gets 10 games next season for injury, we're looking over our shoulder. if he stays fit for 38 Europe it's that big of a contrast when Calvert-Lewin plays versus when he doesn't play so we need to really cover for that Martin I want to bring you in on Bournemouth and Fulham and your thoughts how this season might fare for them both got new managers into the Premier League in Rose and Arbour Lower yeah I mean I think Bournemouth in Europe first time in their history but obviously they lost their manager I mean what's really important is they when Semenya went to City of course but they keep the squad that got them to Europe so there's a lot of people being interested in Ryan and Kruppi but so far they've held on to them so I think for the new manager Marco Reza that's really important because they're going to be tough I think but they've made a couple of signings they've got Antonio Silva centre-back Portugal international didn't play the World Cup but I think he's got 20 caps or something.

1:07:54He's 22. He's come from Benfica. I think he'll be good. And then there's Alvaro Rodriguez who I think Marco Reyes has been a fan of for some time, bringing him from the Spanish side, Elche, because I think Iver Nielsen is going to be the main striker with Ryan as well. And I think he's a forward who will provide some more firepower. So it's going to be... I think the Fulham one's interesting. I mean it's a teammate of mine Arbeloa he managed Real Madrid second half of last season I just think Marco Silva I'm a massive fan of Marco Silva as a manager of different clubs he's had I think it might be tough for Fulham this season I think they brought a couple of players in for Real Madrid who Arbeloa knows of course but it's really almost even though he's managed Real Madrid for a few months he was a caretaker it's almost that feeling it almost feels like his first job really to go straight into the Premier League at a club where you think the manager's been overachieving for a number of years as well.

1:08:52I think it's going to be a tough test. Yeah, I think it is going to be. I mean, they've got Gonzalo Garcia, who brought him in from Real Madrid, but obviously he wasn't one of the top players there. And then Shea Charles, who had a really good season with Southampton, he's Northern Ireland international, came up through the Manchester City Academy, played in that same sort of cohort as Cole Palmer, Morgan Rodgers, Nick O 'Reilly. I think he's the most amount of money ever paid for the Northern Ireland Internationals. Clearly, he's someone who could do well, but I think they will be a team, if you're looking at an established Premier team, who might struggle this season.

1:09:34I think it could be them. Well, another team who people will expect to struggle is Coventry. So, Simon, we brought you in and you can certainly challenge that. So great to have you back on. You were back on last season for the AFL special like we did. But right now back here with the big boys in the Premier League. So, I mean, how much of a hero was Frank Lampard right now in the eyes of the Coventry supporters? Yeah, I mean, just heroic. You've used the right word, a bit of a hero at the moment. He came into the club. We were building some good stuff under Mark Robbins, but the season started slowly.

1:10:09We were in 17th place and Doug King took a big decision to get rid of a manager who's been there for seven years. Took us from League Two up to the Championship to an FA Cup semi-final. he's like a cult hero and then Lampard comes in under a lot of scrutiny and the football we've been watching over the last 18 months has just been ridiculous. Took us from 17th to the playoffs. The playoffs lost at the Stadium of Light in the last minute and then to continue from that and win the league, 94 points, 97 goals scored, beating the parachute payment teams. I think it's the first team since Leeds in 2020 to win the championship without parachute payments.

1:10:44Incredible. Because I think that's, we often see same three up three down so I'm glad to be here and glad we've kind of shook it up I mean you're talking about it not just getting the results the football the goals the excitement now that's going to be tough to replicate in the Premier League is that a worry for you I mean would Frank Lampard need to change his style as we're going about you know manoeuvring in the Premier League yeah it's a good point actually because I think we saw like Vincent Company in Burnley he was very wedded to a system I don't think Lampard's like that at all we scored a lot of goals but also in the second half of last season we did start to grind out results when we needed to get over the line.

1:11:21I think Lampard's very, very flexible. I think he goes to a back three. I think it was a back three at Everton when he kept them up. We played a back four. I think he just plays the style, plays the opposition. I think it's a real benefit for us at the moment. I think Lampard is a massive positive with Premier League experience as well. I'm doing your first game. Your first game is a Friday night against Arsenal. It just sort of took me back. I think one of the first games Brentford had when they came up was a Friday night game against Arsenal about four or five years ago and what Brentford did brilliantly was create something sort of special in the stadium now listen I'm not telling you anything you don't need to know about Frank Lampard but obviously there has been a great atmosphere there because you're winning games but I just think on that first night you know if you can create something get a result however you do it and I'm really looking forward to going to the stadium and almost thinking okay something new something different Frank Lampard's a story Coventry I remember going there as a kid to watch them play.

1:12:18Highfield role, playing against them. It's almost good to have them back, isn't it? One of those teams, Scolese. Premier League team, yeah, from years gone by, weren't they? Some really good players, special players. I think your point's right, Jamie, about can you carry on doing the same things? I'd probably liken it to an Ipswich. Do you remember a couple of years ago when they went up? It was brilliant. There was goals, like three, four goals, 4-2, 4-3. and then you changed your approach in the Premier League, didn't you? Where you became very defensive and sometimes you don't have a choice in that.

1:12:50You get forced to do that. I'm just interested to see how Frank will approach that now because he has got a brilliant attacking team in the Championship. Can that translate now to the Premier League? Yeah, first game at the Emirates. I don't want you to go to the wrong stadium, Carol. Is that the Olympics? Yeah, say that. So it's the Champions away first game Friday. So we've got Arsenal away, Hull at home, then Man City away our first three. So I'm going to London, not Coventry? Sorry, mate. Fuck you now. Quicker to go to London. Well, you've got a really good point to me about Frank Lampard.

1:13:21Have I? A point you want to make or argue with somebody on this show. I like Joe a lot, but I think there's a genuine argument to be made, CV to CV, that Coventry come into this Premier League season with a better manager than Man United do. Ooh! I'm sure Chelsea fans would agree with that. I would agree with that. Really? That's the second spell where he couldn't win a game. I think if you look at... His first spell in a transfer ban and got top four. If you compare the Champions League... He brought in all the best players from the Championship. With Champions League, not one game a week. And you signed Kovacic for 60 million about three days after that transfer ban kicked out.

1:13:51Carrick had one game every few weeks. It's a bit easier. If you also compare their Championship performances, Lampard three seasons in the Championship, sixth with Derby, beat Leeds in the playoffs. Yeah, cheers. Then fifth with Coventry when we start 17th, then won the league. Carrick, I think, was fourth with Middlesbrough, eighth with Middlesbrough, tenth with Middlesbrough, so... I think in the Championship, you might have a point. Right, and then what we're comparing in the Premier League, six months of Carrick winning a game a week. Yeah, and he won a game a week. That's the crucial point.

1:14:18He was the best manager in the league. Versus Lampard finishing the top four with a transfer ban. Winning a Champions League group stage. It's very dodgy. I'm giving Lampard an assist for Chelsea's Champions League as well, by the way. Kept Everton in the Premier League. He's succeeded everywhere he's been. And we'll ignore that second spell of Chelsea. It's not in game. It's not in game. I mean, again, the Everton one, keeping them in the league, it was a big reason why they were struggling to stay in the league in the first place, I think. Apart from David Moyes there, though, that is the club they are.

1:14:42Yeah, potentially. I think he's a good manager, but I think the last job he had in the, well, certainly that Chelsea job the second time round, I think he was found out a little bit. No, that was, Graham Potter had done that. That was like five games. It's certainly never Lampard's fault. It's never Lampard's fault. I think it's probably fair to say that they both have to prove themselves in the Premier League. Yeah, that's right. I would not be swapping Lampard for characters, keepers in the league. Neither would we. Neither would we, yeah. I think if Frank Lampard... I don't know what I'd say to you.

1:15:11I think if Frank Lampard has done well at Coventry, if he managed to keep Coventry up, which will be really difficult, as you know, with the history of promoted teams in these past few years. But I think if he was to keep Coventry in the Premier League... He's gone. I think he'd have a great chance for the England job. I think it's... What was it? Eddie Howe and Lampard. He's had lots of different clubs, lots of different experience. He's got 100 caps. I think the players would look up to like younger players know who he is and you know about his and we need to get back to getting English managers managing England eventually International managers are becoming much younger now aren't they yeah you think FC did Holland one yesterday yeah with Xavi everyone's going for him as it's all yeah I would really rate that move by the way I'd have him up with Eddie Howe and I'd obviously pick with Frank Lampard for the England job yeah yeah oh yeah I think it'd be Frank Lampard or Eddie Howe for the next England job yeah easy PR for him this though isn't it he's not done it yet who's that Lampard He's already getting promoted to the England job for a fictional season.

1:16:11What, you think there should be half of Frank Lampard? It seems like it. Company got relegated with Burnham and went to Bayern Munich. There you go. Yeah, that shouldn't have happened either. It shouldn't have happened either. It shouldn't have happened. I don't think he should be our character to stay at Man United and win the league. But I think Lampard, he's had a patchy management history. He succeeded. He did pretty well at a dark team. A fantastic team. That he did? Yeah, because he took them all from Chelsea. Who were they before he went? Exactly. I think Mason Mount and Tammy Abraham were going to be decent players either way but we're already promoting Lampard to the England job I'm saying if he does well in the Premier League I think he might do well but I think William, do you have as the England manager then?

1:16:53If Tuchel was to go Well that's the problem isn't it? I don't know Pep's available If he has a good season Pep quit the league after Carrick arrived so maybe he's free Well a club who we're looking for a new manager unexpectedly in the summer with Ipswich. So Amy, I'm going to bring you in. Great to have you back. Thanks for coming. And Gary O 'Neill, McKenna, go on. How do you feel about that? Still crying into my pillow every night. It's been absolutely heartbreaking. The last four years have just been beyond what we could have imagined. And he is special. He's a nice guy. He's a lovely guy.

1:17:30And the fact that he took the step down because of his family, we were just saying his kids are tiny. so for what's been going on over the last five years you can you can understand why he feels a need a bit of a break and he's constantly been in the papers as well since we went up to league one all this is exciting new manager young manager look at this team straight up again all of the fuss around him rightly so but at every corner there was a willy stay we went up to the championship I was too good for Ipswich he'll go to another team went to the premier league he'll get he'll get poached he'll get poached um the last time we came up within the week of us getting promoted there was talks between Aston and McKenna because there were so many clubs coming in and rumours and it was so hard when you're trying to get rid uh get ready for the biggest season you've had in 20 years to have to battle that part of me thinks because he is quite a private he seems to be quite a private person I wonder if he just needs to step back but the other side of it is if he gets a new job within the next 12 months we get the we get some money which I think we absolutely do you think a part of it was sorry that he just didn't want to lose a bit of stock do you know what I mean so he's done it once in Premier League not a great season he's done brilliant getting back up straight back up and he thinks oh if I have another year where it doesn't go great I might struggle to get a Premier League job done I wonder if he feels like he took us as far as he could and he now needs another challenge.

1:19:00But that is literally only my personal opinion. Although you have spent a few quid now, haven't you? Yes, yeah. Again, I only found out this morning, apparently we've spent more than Man United. We've spent about 100, hopefully by the end of today, 130 because we're after in CISO as well. I think all three promoted teams are spending north of 100 million this season. What did you do a couple of years ago then, transfer-wise? You didn't spend that type of money. You put me on the spot. Dilap, Hutchinson. Yeah, but Dilap was loaned. Don't get me started on him again. You didn't spend a fortune, did you?

1:19:31There certainly wasn't that. I want to say 70. Oh, did you really? But I honestly, I can't remember off the top of my head, but it certainly wasn't as much. The problem, I believe, looking back now, was last year we had the momentum. It was too soon. I think Hull are going to find the same thing, that it was too soon. They haven't had a chance to build. and we had much like the, was it the Forest fan I was talking about earlier, players who'd been with them in League One, Sunderland fan, it was a Sunderland fan and that really, what she was saying really related to me where we had these players who'd been incredible in League One, we've just let Wes Burns go to Leicester, which another heartbreaking one, but there's a man who was there right from the takeover all the way through that story.

1:20:15We are now into our next chapter and maybe that is why it is the right time for Kieran to go because we need to now move on from that exciting... We've had an incredible four years. It's been lots of fun, but this summer feels like, actually, we need to buckle down now and we need to really... We need to make this work. We need, as much as it pains me to say it, we need to do a Leeds. We've been laying the foundations. We need to be the ones that are saying... You want to stop being a yo-yo club. You want to get that... Absolutely. What needs to change? Is it just the quality of player? Yeah. I think so.

1:20:51I think that, again, much like Coventry, when we went up last time, we were goals, goals, goals. And then we realised that I think you guys, I'm really sorry, but you are going to have a rude awakening. And everybody said this to me. So you asked a little away first, what do you mean? Everybody said this to me as well. I was like, that will be all right. We play beautiful football. We'll be fine. We're meant to be in the Premier League. But there is a difference between playing good football in the championship, which is a competitive league, it was fun this year. It was incredible to watch, probably better as a neutral than going down to the last day.

1:21:22But we struggled with not being able to get that game out there and we will again. So what we need to focus on this time is being more solid, more gritty, being able to dig deep. I think we were a bit apologetic, like, oh, we're so lucky to be here. Thank you for having us. And actually, no, we've earned our place now. we have a statement to make we have the way the club is now being run we can do it we just need to almost prove to ourselves because I don't think any of us really believe that we can do it but I think we will What signing are you really excited about at the moment? I'm losing track because we've had so many and we don't normally have such a busy summer at this point but for me it's days in Midor from Celtic I think watching his my little six year old has been watching all his goals at Celtic and getting excited about.

1:22:13I think there's an overhead kick in there and things like that. Definitely should have had a shirt off for that one. But he's really good. We went to the Wickham friendly. He was the one that was creating the chances all the time. I think half the other players, they were still a bit knackered from their trip to Europe. But I thought he was a bright spark. And him with Leif Davis down that side, I think it's going to be really, really exciting. it might give us that bit of energy that we maybe didn't have. I thought Lee Davis was great in your first season. I was really impressed by him. Loved him.

1:22:44And funnily enough, a lot of Ipswich fans don't believe that. Really? They said that he didn't quite measure up to what we were expecting of him but I think he's had more experience now. He is almost the last one of that old guard left but he is the one who's the most consistently in the first team. He's a lovely guy, another really nice guy, just really about the club and really committed. So I think him and Maida will be the ones. If you're watching an Ipswich game, I'd keep an eye on those two.

1:23:20We're now going to go to the fan debate community question. And this, so what have we got here? So the fan debate community question is sent in by Kieran from Wirral. From the Wirral. worth that one out. If you can make one unpopular prediction right now ahead of the season, what would it be? Go to the unpopular prediction. Sunderland is going to go down. Very good. I think, I don't know how many people here are old enough to remember, but when we got into Europe in 2001, we had a superb season, finished fifth, Matty Holland, all of those superstars. I got to go to the San Siro in 2001, so that was incredible.

1:24:07But then the next season, when we were in Europe, we just couldn't cope with it. We hadn't got the squad, we hadn't got the infrastructure. I think they're going to have second season syndrome. Anyone else got one? I'm going to go Carrick sacked. That was going to be mine. You said he's going to get the England job. I know, I don't want to get the England job. That was going to be mine. Carrick won't make the season. United have already made it to a... I'll go Mariscous Sacks. Fair enough. Feel free to. The United, to be fair, we were speaking before off-camera and we said that Carrick's off-last-season performance got United to a further Carabao Cup round than they'd made last season.

1:24:45Yeah, he's already winning games when we're not even on the pitch. That's how good he is. He's not going anywhere. He needs two games a week now, mate. That's my take. I'm going to go Carrick Sacks. What are you going for? We could win twice a week now. Yeah, exactly. More games to win. I think Irayola's going to really struggle at Liverpool. I think that the team and the balance of that team is a little bit all over the place for me. I think it feels like you're rushing things in defence. I know there's sort of no Liverpool fan, I guess, other than you here to sort of defend it, but I think the defence still looks weird.

1:25:12The midfield hasn't been enforced the way it should have, and I still don't know who starts where up front. Are we not seeing the sort of problems that he's had at the start of his career at Bournemouth, and then when they lost all their players last summer, the start of last season, but when it clicks for him, and with the support and... No offence to him, but we are talking about Bournemouth. I know it's a hugely different thing. Yeah, is he going to be given the time to imprint his will? They have to just accept that this might start poorly. I think a lot of things were funneled through slot in terms of criticism, in terms of problems.

1:25:43Not all of them were his fault. And I think there's still an issue at the club of your two best players for the last ten years are either in decline or they've left. And I don't think you've replaced them. The teams that... Seems like a post-Clopp problem then. I don't know if it's a Klopp thing. I think he's a good manager at Klopp, but I think there's other good managers. I just think the squad isn't quite where it should be. I think similar with City, really. He lost his entire back line and he lost Semenyo and Bournemouth were as good as they ever had. I think he's a really good manager. I do think he's a good manager.

1:26:11And I think given the time, given the system, given the players, it's great and the expectation. But I think that there's a decent... Well, I mean, what you're saying there, I sort of agree because I was like that with Sloth. I think he got far too much criticism. But I can understand the results were that poor. You've got that much, you know, the wage bill's that big. you've spent 400 million and you're supposed to go and sort of dominate for two or three years so the manager's going to carry the can but it's not like it's Iriola comes in and everything's okay because everyone's saying and rightly so the squad's not right but it wasn't right for Slot you know he needs two wingers he needs a holding midfield player he needs a centre you know so the same things that Slot would have needed it's not like Iriola's fixed them we're all saying and you know supporters he needs to did Slot not put that squad together though?

1:26:54well the way the game is now in terms of like obviously the hierarchy isn't he Richard Shew I think I mean Andre's right I think we think now that these sporting directors go and buy the players and the managers don't know nothing about it which is a load of rubbish managers are heavily still involved in transfers no club is buying a player and just dropping them into a training pitch and going yeah look after that where I do think and this happens I think with Louis Diaz where I do think sporting directors overrule the manager and almost the manager has no say if someone comes in with a really good offer for a player and the club think no that's that's more than what we think he's worth or they they don't want to give a player a new contract because he's a certain age I think managers have less say with actual players in the building in terms of going out in terms of players coming in I don't think I think a manager still has a because there's no point bringing a player in where a manager doesn't fancy because in the end of it he's probably not going to play him there's no point he can manage it the way I'm not playing him I didn't bring him so yeah because all that goes on no but I do I do think Liverpool will be interesting this season I'm intrigued to see how it goes and what players they're going to get in and how they're going to go about it because for me when I still look at Liverpool play right now they've got too many attacking players on the pitch and I always thought that was the problem last season with slot after the first game of the season to slot actually on the side of the pitch everyone just wants to go forward and it's the same in pre-season at Liverpool it's just a basketball game and no top team plays football like that I don't believe it In the midfield as well it's got players of a similar type who like getting up and down but who's controlling the game for it No exactly I think we need the poor skulls I think it's amazing the legacy Jürgen Klopp has had on that team in such a short space of time really How long was he there?

1:28:435 or 6 years? No it was 8 or 9 7 or 8 and everybody's still going back going back to Alex Ferguson and that's my 1.400 and one of the reasons why we brought to your Iola in is because he plays club football not because he's won lots of trophies not because he's managed big clubs because he presses or they're energetic that's the football that we want and it's like if he only wins like two of his first ten in the Premier League oh no no I'm asking if that happens because it happened at Bournemouth it could happen will they it'll be fine no because I think what happens is and it happens at every club it's like a cycle we're almost at the stage at Liverpool now where the players will get the blame the manager got the blame last time so now it'll be all the players well I can tweet from Mo Salah where then you would agree with Mo Salah you want high energy football we've got a manager who's brought it in so if you don't do it it's on you so no it won't be that it'll be more about and the people above them the hierarchy who actually will not be there who are moving as soon as the transfer window closes do you think because there's been four managerial changes in the top six in the big six if you like that they can't all finish in the top four so one of those managers is going to be massively under the pump after about the first ten games I know what you mean Every single season, everyone predicts what's the league going to be, and it's the big six in the top six.

1:30:00It's never rising. But every year, at least one of them gets sacked. Usually two of them get sacked. But I do think Carrick could be in trouble, and I'm not just picking on, you know. I agree. But it feels very much like the Solskjaer. No, he's an easy target, Carrick. No, it's not about being an easy target. It feels like you're all picking on United. Shut up. No. But it feels a bit like the Solskjaer thing when he came in, did a really good job, and it was sort of the easy decision to keep him then. Is he not easy to let go as well? Well, I think they should have probably gone... I think with Carrick, I think it's a case, and that's why I always argued for him staying on, is that what you said earlier in the show, there's no circus around United at the moment.

1:30:38It feels very calm. Michael Carrick's calm. The transfer business, he came in, calmed everything down, got Champions League football. The aim for Manchester United next season is to make sure you're in the Champions League again. And it's this idea about... because you'll have more problems in terms of lots of games, as you used to well know. I think if United could get Champions League football again, that still doesn't necessarily mean Michael Carrick should stay. But you want to be in a position, I think, at the end of, or this time next season, where you're in a position to maybe keep Carrick, if he's done another good job, or you go and get that Champions League winning manager, or that manager you think can take you to the next level.

1:31:16I think you need another season of, Champions League team again? A safe appointment rather than a place where it has. That's what I'm saying. I don't believe Michael Carrick will win the league or the Champions League with Manchester United but he's done a really good job. He could do another really good season and then put yourself in a position to then go and get the guy. But because of the uncertainty and what's happened to have United over the last few years it was almost like we just need some... Yeah. But sometimes doing the sensible thing to do the wrong thing. but you know they don't want that they want championships trying to replace him we're talking here he could have a good season and maybe they'll keep him like you know there's a million managers out there that should come in ahead of him no matter what he does I think what he's done so far has been exceptional and I think if he keeps doing something similar do you really think he's exceptional yeah he's been the best manager in the league since he arrived but he's had one game a week but would you have preferred that he put friendlies on midweek every game but he's had a challenge but he can't he's coming to a club that was collapsing Okay.

1:32:18He can only do what he can do. Yeah, yeah, of course. If you don't want to call it exceptional, that's fine. He's done as well as he could have possibly done. He's done okay. He's done as well as he could have done. But now he's got the job. I do think that it's unfair on him that we're talking as though, or people are talking as though, the best case scenario is he stabilises us and then the big boy comes in. I think there's no reason why... That United want more than that? But no, I'm saying he can bring that. I'm saying that. Michael Carrick's not going to win the league. No, that's what I mean.

1:32:47Let's back you up a bit. I think he is actually done over by the fact Oli came in. Yeah, and I think it's very easy and very basic to just say that it's like Solskjaer again, because, yeah, they both used to play for the club, but why is it, you know, Pep at Barcelona is like Solskjaer if you want to be like that? No, I mean, as in to bring a sort of an ex-player back to settle the ship in, did a really good job, then give him the job. I see the similarities, but I think you have to look at who Michael Carrick is and what Man United are. The biggest reason why Solskjaer didn't win a trophy, even got to a final, let's not forget, got to tons of semifinals, finished second in the league, third in the league, the only manager we've had in the last 13 years to win back-to-back top four finishes.

1:33:28The reason we didn't win a trophy is because the squad was a mess. We didn't have a good enough team. You know, ask Pep Guardiola. Pep's the supposed best manager in the world, but he still spends as much as anyone. It's not like he's so good he doesn't have to spend money. You don't have to spend tons of money. Exactly, but we've spent it on the wrong players. If we build a squad, as we spoke about before, that actually makes sense, that's coherent, instead of having one manager like Sir Alex that can win the league, you end up with a team that can be managed by multiple different people like Michael Carrick and still be successful.

1:33:59I'm with Jamie. He won't win the league if you're not it. Well, I mean... United fans, they don't want that. They want a manager to win the league. Odds are, you know, it's hard to win the league. We've had how many managers in the last 12 years and none of them have won it. So I get why you think that. I actually think he could. But I still think he could. Really? Yeah. It won't be this season. But I think if he builds the right team in right positions... Is that your unpopular opinion? He's already said Moresca sacks, isn't it? Moresca sack, that. Do you really think he's got the capabilities to win the Premier League?

1:34:27But what capabilities do you need? Look at all the different managers that have won the league down the years. They've all got different styles, different personalities, different tactical visions, five at the back, three at the back, four, four, two, four, three, three, possession. I think it's pretty leading to what you were saying. What's he competing against now though? There's only Art Atatürk who's won the league. Some of them are going to go bad, aren't they? The new managers. Some of them have got to go good. Alonso at Chelsea, we don't know. Deserby at Tottenham, we don't know. Maresca, Maresca we have no idea.

1:34:58Anything could happen. We don't know, do we? I think it's all up in there. I think we're dismissing characters though. The best he can do is get us somewhere. I just think it just shows where United are now. that they're happy to just accept. From now till Christmas is big for Michael. That's what I mean, yeah. A hundred percent. Because of this, because the understanding or this idea that everyone seems to have that really it's all going to go wrong at some point and that'll be the same in the media. I'm not saying it's going to go wrong. What I'm saying is I think keep, and why he should have stayed was people saying he shouldn't have got the job.

1:35:30It was like Manchester United, I think what they've had for the last six months need that for another 12 months of like not being the circus, not being the story all the time. And I think he brings you that. but has he got that stardust to win the biggest trophy and I think you need to get to a position where you're in the he gets you that position of right because it's only been six months of got into the Champions League another full scene that Champions League being a proper Champions League club again being in the Champions League getting to the knockout stages playing in the Premier League challenging in one of the cups getting to a final whatever winning one and then right what do we need it's like a player gets you to a certain level then we need that stardust I personally just don't think Michael Carrick's probably got that Stardust as a manager To win a Champions League Or a Premier League You're almost saying He's the man before the man Yeah The man to settle everything down Before that man That's fine But I think he is capable I don't know why Look I've got nothing to base it on I just think There's a chance When you played You played with him Didn't you Yeah Did you have the feeling That he had The manager No No But I think a lot of the best managers You say that about A lot of people Who want to manage I think Zidane probably a great example nobody ever thought he'd never said anything apparently in the dressing room look what he did so look I think he's a determined character I just think it would be interesting he's a very determined character he's quiet relaxed as we said he's calmed the circus down pressure's on him now isn't he now he needs to can we go to the next level I think he can that's it that's it for another great episode of the Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet catch you next time

1:37:12This has been a Global and the Overlap production.

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