Bruno Wins Player of the Year, Rice Robbed? & Palmer Back on Fire! | Fan Debate

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2:40I think Jao Pedro, for me, is the boy in the Premier League at the moment. Mate, suppose like Graven, mate, doing that. That's not even a coach. That's unforgivable. I basically change the way I say Guimaraes every time so it's just easier for me to say thank you. It's a national thing now, it's Bruno G. We're days away from the window closing. Running around the trolley time I threw players into it last minute. Arsenal are so strong, you know, they're their holders but I don't think they retained it for about 100 years so you never know, you never know. People say, oh, we lost her a little bit or something like that.

3:09I mean, I'd be like that every week. I don't understand how this continues for the last three or four years but I think this might have been the straw that broke the camel's back. Is anything he's said so far going to make the edit.

3:27Hello and welcome back to the Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet. I'm pleased to welcome Les Ferdinand as a guest on the show and for his debut on the Fan Debate as well as our loyal supporters or fans. So we're going to start with Les. So great to have you with us, Les. How's the summer been? Enjoy the World Cup? Summer's been great, mate. My daughter got married. Oh, lovely. So I kind of enjoyed the World Cup, the parts that I could enjoy. But yeah, so it's been a busy summer, but I certainly did enjoy what I saw. What do you think of the opening weekend of the Premier League? A few shocks in there?

4:02Yeah, it certainly was. You know, Arsenal against Coventry, you kind of saw that and said, yeah, OK, right. Now, I wasn't expecting a hole against Mediunited. And there were a few controversial results over the weekend, certainly Spurs as well. especially after the money that they spent and I spent some time at the training ground they had a legends lunch and all that so it won't be up in the next week no I don't think so it'll knock that straight on the head but the way the manager was speaking you know I was pretty excited but I understand as well you'll know this as well sometimes I think the first game of the season you get yourself so up for it that you watch the game and you think have these boys done a pre-season but then a lot of these boys have travelled to I mean I know Tottenham went to Singapore poor they went to New Zealand, they went to Australia as well.

4:54That takes a lot out of you. You come back first game of the season, you think you should be flying but you know, it takes a little while to get that out of your system. Okay, well a team who are flying at the start of the season and the team we always go to first now on this show which shows how well they're doing is Arsenal. And Rory, this is your debut? Yeah, it's your debut. Yes, I see a lot on me You hear me social media pop up a lot there. So good to see you in the flesh. What are your feelings on the first week of the season? You've had the Community Shield, you've had the first Premier League game, won convincingly, as you would expect.

5:29But you've also seen the runners and riders as well over the weekend. Is your confidence through the roof now that you're going to return the title? Yeah, I mean, confidence was fairly high anyway. But I think the result and the performance against City, followed by Coventry, I think a lot of it was, are we going to look fatigued or are we going to look up for it again? And when we look up for it again, we look pretty fresh considering the season that we had last season, the summer that a lot of the players had. So, yeah, it was very nice just to kick things off on a Friday night and then enjoy the rest of the sort of melee unfold with everyone else.

6:02I said at times last season, and I said at the weekend as well, it doesn't feel like Arsenal have got lots better. It just feels like you can't see anybody else winning the league, really, when I see their squads. and their teams and that you probably still lack a little bit of stardust in the final third. I mean, there was talk on the last show and maybe why he's not being asked back. I'm only joking. He'll be back, Matt will be back. But about the Vinicius Junior, are you confident or is there a belief or is there a hope that you could maybe get the Alvarez deal over the line? Yeah, the Alvarez one's weird.

6:37I think I'd have definitely loved it at the start of the window. the way it's kind of unfolded with him being so hot on Barca and we're still awaiting encouragement from him to join us. So if he turns around and gives us encouragement now, it's just because you don't want to be booed off your home ground week in, week out. So I'd love for us to do it, and there's obviously a plan. But equally, if we don't get it done, I look at the squad that we've got, and like you said, I don't think, as much as we wanted that big upgrade in attack to a sort of star quality player, I think Saka has that star quality if he can stay fit this season.

7:10Outside of that, I think this season more is about the Champions League. If you're looking for where you need that star quality in the Premier League, I think if we sustain our level that we've shown for probably the last four years, I think everyone else is dropping off a little bit. I think it's just about raising the floor again, raising the depth again, which the signings of Konza, Bruno G, even Zollis has done. So if the deal isn't right to do this summer, then maybe you do just hold back. You mentioned Bruno G. I'm just going to mention Bruno. Last night, he won the PFA Player of the Year Award.

7:44Do you think it was deserved? Do you think it should have gone to an Arsenal player? Well, I'd have liked to have seen it go to an Arsenal player. I think some of the performances... Which one? Declan Rice would have been the natural for me. Yeah, I'd have said that. I think it is a difficult one because there's not like a star player at Arsenal that you just highlight and you go, that's the one, that's the guy. For me, William Saliba is a world-class centre-back that's probably the most world-class player in our squad. but again it's like there's so many different players that with Bruno it's like okay you had an outstanding season and so you can kind of understand why lots of the votes would go that way whereas maybe amongst Arsenal players it was Is it outstanding if you just only play in Premier League games?

8:22Yes Yes it is It's a Premier League award I'm asking him Yeah but it's Bruno Fernandes isn't it? Yeah it's a Premier League award I do think you have to factor in like when players are playing How many big games did they play? In the Premier League as many as everyone else They only play each other None of them really mattered Well, of course they did. Of course they mattered. The managers got sacked off the back of it. But he can't have been doing that well. Well, he got the record number of assists. Of course it matters. If you want to spread it out across everything, then you can ask a different question.

8:52But in terms of Premier League performances, he was by far the best player. Yeah, but it's whether or not you take into account the fact that other players are going and playing in the Champions League midweek, every week, and then still turning up with Premier League winning performances. Yeah, but you could put that the other way and say Bruno Fernandes got 21 assists out of an attack that barely scraped third. Well, he took every set piece, didn't he? Well, you don't get assists for penalties. And he didn't, you know, I think he was clearly the best player in the league. That record has stood for 20 years.

9:20It's not something that gets broken every season. It's been around for a generation and he broke it. And he's playing with maybe even lesser players than Rice. I think the thing as well, what you've got to remember is that it's voted by your peers. Yeah, absolutely. Which is fair enough. if I'm, you know. But because this is, as we should not forget, this is a PFA player of the year, 1996? Yeah, that's right, yeah. There you go. And you know what, the Ballon d 'Or's a bit different because he's voted by managers and so on and so forth and you have to have won something. And you look at Arsenal and you're right, Rice has been, he's had an outstanding season but I always think this is voted by a Piers, not based on, kind of, perhaps one season but over a period of time that they look at you.

10:04How, when you look back at that, And there's a lot made of that season because you didn't win the league. Someone wins the league every year and a group of 25 players or 20 players can say, we won the league. There's only one player in the league who can say, you know, I was the best player in the league that season. That feels to me like, that feels massive to me. Is that the one thing in your career you look back at and think, wow, all the players in the Premier League that season, I was number one? Yeah, and you know what? I would have probably given it up to have won the title with Newcastle because it's not about individual honours for me.

10:40It's about the team and doing that. But to be voted that, and as you said, I think the voting was different back then because you voted before the end of the season, didn't you? Oh, that good start at Newcastle, mate. So people just look at that. And I came off the back of a pretty good season at QBR the year before. And so going to Newcastle, I think everybody looked at me and I'd done well at QBR. could he do it at a bigger club, on a bigger stage? And I suppose in that early part of the season I did, and the voting back then went in around about February, March, wasn't it? So had it gone to the end of the season, I might not have won it.

11:18Don't say that, don't say. But yeah, it is some achievement. Rory, there's excitement, not just about what could happen this season. I think most people feel Arsenal are at a level above everybody else. But does this feeling I feel from Arsenal fans that he thinks this could be your time in terms of a little bit of domination? Maybe the way probably me and Gareth were feeling a year ago was that this could be our time in the next three or four years where you win two or three league titles. Yeah, the optimism is that. You look at Liverpool and it can go that way and not work, but I think there was always question marks over Liverpool's depth as much as they brought in talent.

11:52With us, I think, you look at the signings that we've made again, Bruno G, Konza, we've not gone young, we're not looking to sort of rebuild and age down. I think we've looked at it and gone, And this is an unbelievable window of opportunity, really. If you look back over the last decade, City are probably at their weakest now. You would feel without Pep Guardiola there as well. We've not got any players, to be honest. Well, you just keep selling. So it's kind of City are weak and United are still not back and Liverpool. It does just feel like now is the time where you can go on a run of four or five years of consecutive titles.

12:23I'm just interested in a couple of times, you've said this Bruno G, is this a thing? No one knows how to pronounce his second name. I basically change the way I say Guimaraes every time so it's just easier for me to... Is there an Arsenal thing now? It's Bruno G? Yeah. OK. I think he has that on the back of his shirt and I just don't want to butcher him. That's game's gone. Bruno G on the back of his shirt his game's gone. Les, can you see... I know you're a big Tottenham man probably hate or pains you to say it but are you worried about what Arsenal could do not just this season over the next sort of two or three years?

12:57Yeah, I like what you know they've given the manager time and he's delivered I think the next thing is the Champions League and can they be dominant in that competition can they win that but what he's doing and the squad they've put together is quite scary there's strength in depth everywhere as you said I think the only place that you probably question is that you know up top you kind of feel they need a goal scorer and they said last year if they could get a goal scorer they'd win the league they did they brought in won and they've won the title without him scoring the goals. I think Gokares will settle and I think given the opportunity, he will score goals because I saw him in the championship and I thought, when I saw him in the championship you know, when you look at the championship, back then when I was involved in it, I felt you look at players and you think, who could play in the Premier League?

13:52And yet he was actually one of them that I thought, yeah, he's got the ability to play in the Premier League. I just think he went to Arsenal and everything that was going on just kind of overruled him a little bit. I think he will score goals for you. Right, next up, a team who was stunned in the opening game. I think probably stunned us all, didn't it? The result, a hole from Manchester United. So, welcome back, Joe. Are you just putting that down to a freak result? It was two set pieces or is it more worrying than that? Maybe a little bit more worrying, but not massively more worrying. I don't think first game of the season, everyone looked sloppy and sluggish and slow and you mentioned about almost like they didn't have a pre-season the passing was poor and they didn't have that link up and once Hull scored it never felt like United were going to get one back somehow even though we had shots and chances and stuff there was just a real slowness to how we were trying to counter-attack or say counter-attack how we were trying to build up our attacks how we were trying to sustain pressure we really struggled the amateurishness from the set pieces was horrendous like that second goal there was three men at the back post that could have scored that goal for Hull and the first one they won the header at the near post they had a shot at the middle and then they got the rebound as well the defending was non-existent hopefully it was just a first season sort of shocker thing first game of the season where Hull are going to be you know most up for it most difficult to play in that game but they played really well and their game plan was spot on so I'm not trying to discredit Hull I mean there was a lot made of probably I mean you talk about set pieces sometimes we've all played in games you go away from home you're playing against a team near the bottom a lot of big players in the team and if you're going to lose the game you lose on a set piece and people get frustrated but it is part of the game was the worry that you didn't really look like scoring in the game and I go back to sort of the central midfield area that's the area you've identified this season as like we need to go big in there I think both midfield players come off looks like the Leibers through the door now as well were you a little bit worried how that looked in your first game of the season a little bit but I think Telemans looked a little bit slow.

15:55Santos was sort of, the both of them kind of didn't really get into the game the way you'd want. But they are both new. It was the first ever game for the club. I know they played a little bit pre-season, obviously, but that was their first proper game. It's a completely new midfield. And it's a shame we put ourselves in a position where we basically had to buy a whole new midfield, like I said, Balaba, Santos and Tielemans. It's great. And I think as the season goes on, they'll settle in, show their quality, and I think it'll be fine. But, you know, you're having to play two players that have never played for you in the middle of that pitch, trying to to sort of basically fight back after those two goals.

16:26It was difficult. By the time Maynou came on, we were 2-0 down. And the tide had been set by that point. Hull were just sat back. If we don't score, Hull weren't going to do anything. And because United couldn't score, it just became easier and easier for Hull. And I think we got frustrated. And yeah, as the game went on, it felt less likely to score, not more. So yeah, it is a bit of a worry, but I'm not... I think it'll sort itself out. I saw an interview with the... Because Michael Carrick's... I know and played with him. You'll probably know him well as well. Les, he's very cool, calm, and we've seen that.

16:58And he had an interview, I think, after the game where someone questioned him about was the passion not there, and he snapped back. I love managers doing that, to be honest. And then people say, oh, he's lost a little bit or something like that. I mean, I'd be like that every week if I was a manager. You know what I mean? So I actually liked that side of Michael Carrick of putting someone back in the place for coming out with a silly question. but what did you feel about that and where do you think because it is going to be different from Michael Carrick this season there's more games probably more scrutiny I think last season he came in and it worked straight away and I think he just wanted to close everything off and just keep doing what was working get to the end of the season all he can do as an interim is lose the job if he doesn't do really well he's not going to keep it so I think he kept doing what worked for him I think we're probably going to see more of his personality now on the pitch off the pitch like I said he seemed to get a little bit annoyed at that question about were they passionate enough or did they care enough and all that sort of the kind of questions that you tend not to ask.

17:56But I want to see that, like you said. People accuse him of being boring, then people accuse him of losing his head. Like, whatever you do as a manager, if you're not winning, it's a problem, isn't it? So I think we're going to see more of his personality. I don't think he's ever going to be Jose Mourinho or Ruben Amrum in terms of carnage and chaos in press conferences. But I think, you know, seeing a bit more of who he is and what he believes in, I'm up for that. I think last time, if I can remember right, Last time we were on, were you talking about Manchester United maybe putting in a challenge for the title going forward this season?

18:27It's one game, I get that. But would that make you think, oh, I'm not quite sure about that? I think it's always going to be a long shot. It's not like, I don't think we're favourites to win the league, obviously, I think that would be clearly Arsenal. But I look at City, who are sort of scrabbling for starting XI at the minute. I look at Tottenham, who look miles off it. Chelsea look good going forward, but not so good defensively. You look at Liverpool, I don't really even know what to make of Liverpool at the minute. It seems like nothing's changed since last season. So I think that was my thinking, is there's a gap there for someone to put up a challenge with Arsenal.

18:58Obviously, if you're going to be losing to Hull and promoted teams every week, it's not going to be United. But I do think that there's nine months left of the season. And if that midfield can get sorted out, once we get a few players back from England... What does sorted out mean? Because you've got the players in now. Who is the starting two? Who would you have as the starting two? At the moment, I think it made sense that it was Santos and Tielemans because they've played most of the summer. I would like to see Maynou and Tielemans. Obviously, now it's interesting with Belaber coming in, the legs there.

19:26I could see Tielemans and Belaber against maybe the top teams where we're trying to counter-attack. But I think Maynou and Belaber would be a really, really good partnership as well. The composure of Maynou, that calmness. So basically, the two signings you just made in midfield, you wouldn't be starting? Well, it's going to be different for different games, isn't it? I think if we're at home with loads of possession, Mayno and Tielemans have them on the ball all the time, keep things ticking over, fast play. It's counter-attacking. You might even see Santos and Belaber at the Emirates. So I don't think it is going to be, you know, we're wasting these new...

19:55Courses for courses. Yeah, hopefully. Talking about Manchester United's defeat and it felt like one of those big results in the first game of the season. Les, have you ever been involved in a result like that where you think, oh, first game of the season and it's just like sort of knocked you back? Yeah, sort of. But when Shearer signed, we did the same trip. You went to Everton? We went to Singapore and all that. We got pumped by Man United in the charity shield, 4-1. And then we went to Everton. 2-0? Yes, right. And we were expected to be challenging again. And we started the season like that.

20:30And it can happen. Like I said, the first game of the season is always that one where you think, right, okay, we should go and win this. And you're not quite at it. You can't understand why you're not quite at it. but you're not and I think it's one that you just you just do away with and say right let's go again and you know the following we went and won and then we drew again and so on and so forth but I totally agree with the fact that you know you've just got to look at this whole come up there buzzing the fact that they're in the Premier League they weren't expected to beat Man United and they've gone out and gone let's just have a go and they've done that

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23:43Some things absolutely don't. However, opinions differ. It's time to play Games Gone, Games Back, brought to you by Skybet. We are joined by three of the fans, Joe, Ben and Billy, and next to me is Les, who's next to our brand new board. Woo-hoo! Yeah, we like that, don't we? Along with some topics to discuss today, as well as the ones from last week. So, Les, take it away, pull something out from there, and we will decide whether it's Games Gone or Games Back. Outfield players going in the net. Games so back. Definitely Games Back. It's always good, isn't it? I'm going with games back. I like that.

24:18Was there one this weekend? Yeah. Tram there, wasn't it? Was there? Yeah. Pulling out saves and all sorts. Bobby Falconer, I'm told him, yeah. So I'm going to pay you. His team, Wigan, they didn't have a keeper on the bench at the weekend. The manager made the decision, so there could be a scope for that in the future as well. So anyone we can remember? Harry Kane. Harry Kane? Harry Kane did it in a Europa League game where he scored a hat-trick and then went in goal and let a free kick in and just threw his hand. And then John Terry's done it, I think, as well, didn't he? Jagiel? I remember Jagiel.

24:48I actually, there was a game for Liverpool, because I was known as being a player who played in lots of different positions, certainly when I was younger. And there was a game where a Merseyside derby, you might remember, where Stephen Gerrard got sent off. We had two men sent off. So Steve Storm went in goal. And I always think I should have just gone in goal for the last sort of 10 minutes just to say I've... I can picture that. Yeah. I can picture you going in there. No, just to tick it off and go, I did right back, did left back, centre back, keeper, holding midfield. So we nearly got through the 11.

25:20So we're going for that? Yeah, we're going for that. I remember my first hat-trick I scored for Newcastle was Vinnie Jones. I scored against the goalkeeper and then I got the goalkeeper sent off. He came out and took me out on his box. So he got sent off, Vinnie Jones went in, and I scored my third goal against Vinnie Jones. Does it still count? You can't count. I did say that. I did ask the question, but yeah. And so the next up, Les. Oh, okay. Oh. Half-time entertainment. Game's gone. Game's gone, I love it. Read it up, Les. Sorry. Half-time entertainment. I'm not having that, no. I'm not having it either.

25:57We don't need Justin Bieber walking around the pit. No. You can't take a guitar, do we? Do you know what? What did Wazza say? It's what? You don't need all. It's crap, yeah. I like those artists, but that was crap. And do you like the old-school half-time entertainment that you used to get in the mid-2000s was always quite funny. They don't mind a ruffle. Yeah, stuff like that. I remember someone getting married on the pitch at half-time at Spurs once. And it was like, stuff like that's funny. They need to make a few quids out here. Yeah, exactly. Half-time. Half-time? Yeah. We had a Thompson thing as well, where it was like someone would try and score a goal from the halfway line or whatever.

26:29What about the cross-pour challenge? Yeah, don't mind that. Remember at KBR, they used to have the cheerleaders as well, didn't they, at half-time? Back in the day. I won't look. I know the Danos. I don't really remember that because I was in the changing room. Oh, yeah. You're screening. Yeah, yeah. Parachute. All right, so we're going for games back. Okay. Here's one. Fanzines. Oh. Games back. Games definitely back. Yeah. What is it? Fanzines. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But it's not Fanzines anymore, is it? It's social media, isn't it? Yeah, social media. Have podcasts taken the role of Fanzines?

27:08There's still plenty of fans going on. Still getting United, standing all that stuff. Yeah, that's legendary, isn't it, with Andy Mitton? Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of them have gone online and stuff and the podcast as well, but yeah, you can still get them. I'll have to give someone's mention now that we've got Andy Mitton on there, you know what I mean? The Liverpool way, through the wind and rain. It's a gauge back, yeah? That's right. Everton, when the skies are grey. Yeah, we try and put one out. Still are for Everton. We try and put one out once every two years or so. In fact, I have to talk to us about you, Les, as well, because we wrote about you, our fanzine yeah I know yeah Vissorted wrote about your fanzine remember they said about you saying that you were the worst player that ever played for us yes that's right yeah that was us I'm sorry about that I have to I have to apologise he's not going to come back now is he and the thing is I remember because I remember we used to drink we used to drink in the players lounge actually in the old days with Steve Perriman as well back in the day and I remember you coming there just you were standing in the corner I felt really sorry because you played a couple of games for us and it wasn't great it has to be said and so and then you left and you went to what's it Turkey I wouldn't need to put out a million goals.

28:07And then that was it. Is anything he's said so far going to make the edit?

28:15I remember that was... You took the guest down. He's meant to cheerleaders. I went to... It was my first loan. I went to QBR. Well, Brentford tried to sign me. Before Steve Perriman was manager, he tried to sign me. And I went to QBR. So I think they had down with me anyway. So I was always going to be voting. Yeah. Legend. Apologies. We've got three more left. Right. What have we got next left? OK. Read it out for us. This is a big one. No VAR in the Championship. Game's back. Game's back. 100%. Yeah. Are you happy with that? Yeah. Brilliant. I agree. There was a lot of chat about it, weren't there?

28:50Was it the West Brom handball last weekend? There was a lot of chat about it. There was something, wasn't there, from the weekend? When there's a big decision, everyone moans like they haven't got VAR, and then, you know. Well, the fella got... Two-game banned, didn't he? Two-game banned, wasn't it? Was that for pretending he put the ball in? so where do you where do you stop that do you know what I mean so he's gone in and most centre forwards are going with everything to try and score and he's hit his hand and obviously it's gone in and it's celebrated now if it hits a defender and the defender knows it's hit him and it's gone out of play exactly but he runs away yeah exactly so it was for deceiving the officials wasn't it yeah but that's ridiculous that can only come back to haunt why is the ref not getting a two game ban for missing that exactly or the linesman yeah yeah it was a bad one so what are we saying games back games back games back what's next OVAR that's two mascots imitating players sometimes they're better than them yeah so how are they imitating them what are they doing diving rolling over they're the celebrations is there celebrations oh right yeah okay I think if it's negative then it's games back and if it's positive it's games gone yeah taking the mix all right but yeah you don't need the mascot doing the Sioux celebration and all that right let's go in the middle here yeah that's on the line on the line yeah and we've got one more for games back games gone where's it going to land fans filming football oh we all know where that's going yeah games gone it's definitely games gone game has gone games totally gone yeah totally gone

30:34Right, we go to Manchester City. Very lucky. Yeah, I'd agree. We go to Luke. Limp's over the line, didn't we? I mean, have you seen any changes in the way the team has been sort of set up? They've gone, you know, about doing things in those first couple of games against Arsenal and the first game at home against Bournemouth. Anything you've noticed? It's a bit weird, really, because I think the squad's changed so much. In pre-season, I noticed that we were playing a lot more direct with the wingers. The full-backs were staying back a little bit more, obviously, with Pep. The full-backs attacked quite a lot.

31:03But I think just the whole squad is still in disarray. And you were talking then about, you know, first game of the season. Last year, we beat Wolves' first game. Everyone was saying City are, you know, going to do really well this season. Then we go and lose the next two games and everyone was saying the complete opposite. So I think at the start of the season, you've got to kind of take everything with a pinch of salt. Like you were saying about United, like you were saying about Liverpool last season, how it was going so well. You were scoring last-minute winners, a bit similar to City, obviously, at the weekend.

31:28But I'm not too sure what we're going to do. we've lost like 10 first team players and every week we seem to be selling another player so we lost Rinders Nico Gonzalez Rodri in the midfield John Stones Bernardo both gone and then Marmoush Savino both gone as well Nathan Ake Akanji returned from his loan and went James Trafford's gone to Leeds you could keep going and I think we need to sign more players so as much as yeah he could talk about us limping over the line I do agree I think every City fan would agree that we've been a bit lucky with that but I think right at the start of the season and we still need more players, definitely.

32:03On the back of what you said, do you think it's unfair then if people in the game were expecting Mureska to challenge with Manchester City because there'd been so much transition? I think it's just so early. You look at slot, I think people wouldn't have put Liverpool to be favourites at all to win the league the year they did win it. And I think it can go both ways. I think you've got to be positive as a City fan and say, I hope if we get a couple more signings in, we'll be up there. At the end of the day, we got those three points on the board. Did we necessarily deserve them? maybe but we left it very late I think we were lucky at the end and I don't want to overly critique or guess about Mureska but I'm still confident if we get some signings in we've got a strong squad like you said would people be unfair to say City are going to win the league probably because Arsenal are so strong you know they're the holders but I don't think they retained it for about 100 years so you never know you never know It feels like a lot of the players that are going I hope I haven't got this wrong remember when you had that really bad spell on the Pep he just couldn't win a game and his win just went mad in the transfer market in the January he spent about £150-200 million did any of those transfers actually work?

33:10Yeah I think Kusinov definitely worked I get what you're saying I think Kusinov definitely worked I think it'll be one we've got long term I think that window is a bit weird because I think City obviously won the four titles we go into that next season and Pep's just had a new documentary you can see behind the scenes how much it's affecting the squad Sorry to interrupt I've watched the first I think I've got one more to go what did you think of that the documentary I thought it was way more insightful than any documentary like that I've ever seen kind of the negative side of stuff that you can actually see under the covers really I think a lot of that probably gets cut out you look at the Tottenham one the previous City ones were obviously pretty much all just winning and stuff but Tottenham the Arsenal ones I think a lot of that got cut out now Pep's gone I think you can see it and like Pep said we were completely in the desert we won one game in 13 and I was at all of those games it was a complete horror show and watching it back you keep thinking it's going to end and it kept going and we somehow salvaged third and I think us salvaging third just to go back to your point was because of those signings we brought in Nico Gonzalez we had no Rodri at all he did a pretty good job and even at the start of last season he was decent didn't work out too well we got our money back obviously the Reinders one I don't think he was quite physical enough he was good at carrying the ball he was obviously really good at AC Milan before but it didn't really work out we've got our money back on him and the Marmouche one as well him going to Tottenham Savinho was signed in that summer before the January as well and I don't think You're shaking your head Joe They're just talking about all these failures and then getting the money back I don't know how they do it I don't know why you get 85 million for Savinho or Savio is one of the most ridiculous You don't know how they do it or you don't want to say how they do it No well who knows but yeah it's just one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen Yeah I mean I'd agree with the Savinho point but everything else I think it's quite weak minded United fans sold Pogba for nothing bought him back for 90 million got rid of him for free it's like United are renowned for doing terrible business.

35:01Lately, maybe, the waters are going to turn on that a little bit. But I think it's always... The thing is with the City thing, City have got their return on Rinders. He was midfielder of the year in the Serie A. He had an average season at best. He won two domestic cups, and then he goes off for a return on the money. The Savino one, I don't know how we've done that. I genuinely will say I don't know how we've done that. No one knows that one. The Savino one... Just you wait, mate. He scored two in 53. I'd rarely be negative about City players at all. But I'm not sure how we've got£85 million for Savino.

35:33It's a good job you sign Savio then. Yeah, good luck. Anyway, the Marmouche one, he came in, like I said, with a Champions League thing, I was getting third. I really don't know how he came third the season before last. Marmouche came in and was really good. Haaland was out for about five, six weeks and he scored some big goals if you look back. So I think they did a job, they served a purpose. Maybe they've not worked out too well, but they got us in the Champions League. And I think City are just saying now, if the fees arrive for them, we'll just clear them out. We've just said then, with the transition, the turnover of players, it's probably difficult to see Manchester City winning the league this season.

36:08But if, with a few days to go over the transfer window, what is the one sign you're looking at that you think could make that difference and maybe get you a lot closer to really challenge Arsenal? Yeah, well, there's the Ayoubou Adi one. He's young Moroccan. JT, no, isn't it? Yeah, it looks very promising, but he is young, I agree with that. He's coming in. We're signing a guy from Palmeiras called Alan to replace Sevigno. Alan? I can't say we know a lot about him. I can't say we know a lot about him, but I guess that's at least a body through the door. Semenyo Ngehi obviously came in in January.

36:37But I think Enzo Fernandes, I definitely don't speak for all City fans. Some City fans want him, some don't. I'd be in the boat of getting him because I think he's a big player. But it's whether Chelsea will sell. And they set this deadline of a couple of weeks back,£120 million. They'd obviously want to replace him. They've got a new manager themselves. They signed him a few years back now. I think City were interested before Chelsea even signed him as well. So it's definitely a player that's been on our radar. I think we need to spend some of this money. We've brought in like 350, 400 million.

37:05I think it's a record ever transfer window in terms of sales. But we've lost a lot. I think we've lost, I think it's 1 ,400 games, Premier League games worth of players in terms of the appearances they've made. So we've definitely lost a lot of experience. Brought some players in, but we definitely need more. I think genuinely three more players. What do you think of Harland's haircut? As somebody that shaved my head in Covid, he might regret it, but it's different. I definitely look way worse with his skinhead, but Harland, he's rocking it. So if he gets the goals and keeps scoring, I'm not too bothered about his haircut.

37:39Hopefully he likes it, though. Les, what do you think about Enzo Fernandes maybe leaving Chelsea to go to Manchester City? Do you think that would be a good fit? Do you think it would work for both clubs? At the moment, I think it would work for both clubs. I think he's getting booed by a section of Chelsea supporters. And he's kind of made it clear he'd like to go. And that's not just this season. Last season he's doing the same thing. So I think it would work in both ways. The question I'd like to ask about Enzo and Maresco is, will he get the chance? Will he get the chance to watch Super League?

38:13From the supporters and stuff like that? Yeah, I think City fans will give him the time. At the end of the day, like I said, last time I came on, The last two managers before Pep both won the league. Maybe we'll take a bit of time. I think he's got at least half a season before you can even really start criticising from a City fan perspective. I'm going to be quite optimistic. You've got to give him a chance. Following Pep is always going to be a difficult task. And if we got to the end of the season and it was going terribly wrong, I could understand why the club might say, you know, we look somewhere else.

38:42But definitely, before I even want to be talking about stuff like that, I want to give him a chance. I want to give him the best chance for him to succeed. and I think that starts with signing a few more players now, definitely. But I think he'll do well. Yeah, OK. Well, a team who I hope do well in these next nine or ten months is Liverpool. Gareth, going to come to you. We got a 99-minute penalty to rescue a point at Newcastle. Were you up there? No, I couldn't get there. You were at the game. OK, well, you obviously watched it on TV like I did. A fitting tribute in some ways, wasn't it, to Kevin Keegan, when you think of the game, the way the game was.

39:18Yeah, it was absolutely brilliant, wasn't it? I mean, I sort of knew about some of the stuff that was being done through people I know from different supporter groups and things like that. But yeah, still when you see it unfold and see it done so well, it was absolutely brilliant, wasn't it? And really got across the love for Kevin from both clubs. But I mean, I think I said last time that, you know, Keegan for me is one that sort of transcends clubs anyway. I think there isn't someone who dislikes him. He's just a great fella, a sound fella. Everyone has a good word for him. And I think it was Pat Nevin on Radio 5 said it was like a church to Kevin Keegan.

39:53I thought that was brilliant, a brilliant way to put it. Les, can you weigh, you know, you know Kevin Keegan probably as, well, certainly better than anybody in this room. What was he like? What was he like to play for? I mean, in terms of playing for it, I just, you know, you knew that Newcastle's, you know, style of play was, you know, well a great example is he'd come into a change room and whenever he came into a change room before the game with the team, the opposition's players, he'd look at the sheet and he'd always wait for these words of wisdom, ah this one's playing that one's playing, this one's playing and all he'd do is just screw it up front and floor and all he used to say was give them the respect they deserve in there but if you play to the capabilities in this dressing room they won't live with you and that was him, do you know I mean he was just he was more about the psychology of football rather than the actual nitty and gritty stuff about, you know, tactics and stuff like that.

40:53It was more about psychology. I mean, my first six or seven games at Newcastle scoring goals were fun. I was like on fire and after one game I come in and he says to me, I'm in the bath, you know, back then we didn't have sports science and all that, so I got in a hot bath rather than a cold one. So I was lying in the bath with Raylox in it and I get a call saying, no, Kevin wants to see you in his office. I went and tell him I've just played 90 minutes, mate. I've been there in a bit. So all of a sudden, another one. Terry McDermott comes in and says, oh, the gaffer wants to see you in his office.

41:21He says, tell, I've just played 90 minutes, mate. I'm lying in here for a bit. Arthur Cox comes through the door. Arthur Cox never called me Les. Leslie, manager, wants to see you in his office. I'm moaning my socks off. I get out of the bath and I go in his office. I've got a towel around me and I said, what do you want? I said, like, I've just played 90 minutes. We've just won. He said, you're going back to London. I went, I'm not going back to London. I'm staying this weekend. I'm staying in Newcastle. He went, no, you're going back to London. He said, I'm not. I've not booked anything. He said, I've booked something for you.

41:47You're going back to London. He said, here's your ticket. Go. So I'll get changed and I'm on the plane in London. So anyway, on the way back, he said, come back on Tuesday. He said, I go back to London. On the way back on Tuesday, I think, if I score the weekend again, he might send me back to London. Do you know what I mean? But that was his getting into your head. and he did little things like that just to get in psych he was just brilliant he was the manager who it was his last game for England the Germany game that was the first squad I was ever in the England squad so my first England squad is Kevin Keegan designing just in the dressing room he just said that I've had enough flags I'm done I've sent the manager over the edge but he was just and that's what he would do wouldn't he just put his hand up in front of everyone and just go like that's it I've done I can't take you any further forward and he was just like, he was out of thought.

42:38But there was, I mean, a lot's made of him, rightly so. And we all know he won the Ballon d 'Or a couple of times. You talk about how many players have won that, certainly English players. But there was one thing that I saw on a documentary, it might have been a podcast, looking back at his career. When he come back to Southampton, I think he wins PFA Play of the Year for Southampton in 82 or 83. I think Southampton might finish second that season to Liverpool in the league. but you're thinking, you know, he's left Liverpool, won the European Cups, all that, goes to Germany, comes back to Southampton, wins PFA Player of the Year, when you think of the players Liverpool had at that time, and the players, so he was obviously, as you rightly said, Gareth, he transcends the game, but getting back to Liverpool, I was very frustrated on Sunday night watching the game, I was very frustrated on Monday night football, going through the goals, maybe a little bit too much, but it was just because it's only one game but I think we've all feared this all pre-season every game we've watched has been the same in terms of going right through midfield probably looking at the midfield set up thinking all of us thinking I don't think this is right and then it just blew up in our face didn't it on Sunday That's the thing I think you expect a new season to feel fresh especially when you've got a new manager I don't think the manager's been backed sufficiently so far in the transfer market I think we've left ourselves a lot to do with five days to go before the window closes.

44:08I think in his interview he did with you, he's talking about wanting to get players in and there will be players through the door, he said, so we'll all wait and see. But I think that's just sort of been hanging over us anyway. You're just thinking, well, the squad is light, the squad is thin. What's this season going to be? And then it unfolds in the way it does. Liverpool are easy to get through, Liverpool being hit on counter-attacks, Liverpool are easy to score against. And it's like a hangover, a replay, grand dog day of last season. And that for me isn't down to the manager. I know some people are saying, well, the manager is ultra-pressing, ultra-attacking.

44:45He's probably said to Gravenberg and to Bosley, I want you right up there when Liverpool are attacking. But it's almost like we need someone through the door. And I see tunes changing already. I read a report the other week saying, collective responsibility for defending, so there will be no midfielder. I woke up this morning and apparently we're ready to pay 90 million for Scott from Bournemouth. And I'm like, well, something's happened, yeah. And the sort of the planning, you know, the ins and outs for a while just hasn't felt like thought out to me at all. And it feels like, you know, we did a podcast and called it like, is Areola being set up to fail?

45:25And that's kind of how it feels and that's what was frustrating about it, yeah. I mean, I liked what I thought was a little bit different from last season. You know, we got to a place last season where it was terrible to watch. People walking out of Anfield saying, what was that? And, you know, they weren't looking forward to going to the match. I thought we did see fight from them. I thought the attitude was better. I didn't see that where you see everyone's shoulders go down. There's almost slumping to say, oh no, this again. There was a bit of fight there at least. and at least, you know, Munoz comes off the bench, looks like he's got something about him, wins the penalty and we score with the last kick of the game and get out of jail a little bit, maybe grab a point there.

46:04OK, the stats said we deserved, but I don't think the game, if you watched it, said we deserved really. So we just roll into next weekend now, don't we? And we're at home and it's Nottingham Forest and it's like we were terrible against them around field last season. We got beat 3-0, one of the worst performances of the season. So what are we going to see? not ground dog day hopefully and we'll go from there Where are you with the midfield because I think that's the big talking point and that was because of the nature of the goals and also I was speaking about Florian Vert on Monday night so Boz Lye's role in central midfield and this do we need people say number six but do we need another midfield player who basically can do what and you know a Declan Rice or a Kayser those type of players you look at and you think we're crying out for that type of player at Liverpool.

46:55I know they're not easy to get. I get that. But I said quite strongly, even after one game, that midfield can't work. Do you think it can? Do you think that is any way those three players that we saw on Sunday start the game, do you think there is a way that can get there or can get us to where we need it to be? I mean, people are saying, aren't they rightly and pointing to Gravenberg and saying, well, look, he has sort of played a defensive role before and done well, which is true. but equally I look at last season what he said, what Slott said and also what he was doing for the Netherlands and he's an offensive player ultimately isn't he?

47:32He filled a spot and he did well there but then it's sort of like his steam ran out in that position a little bit I thought and then he reverted to back what he wants to do and he talked about scoring more goals and that Slott had given more freedom and then like I say you see him in the World Cup and you're like that's what he wants to do he doesn't want to be back there he doesn't want to be clean enough so for me there is no one in the squad that is that you know there's maybe some people are talking about Nione I like Nione but he's what is he 19 18, 19 and he's still quite wiry you know I want a bit of a dog a bit of a grok like someone who's defensively minded whose first thought is keeping them out and you know I think you said it I've seen other people say it as well that team we started with that Newcastle apart from the people who were actually defenders.

48:26Only two of them are defenders. Everyone's attacking. Everyone wants to go forward. Everyone wants to put balls in the box. And you've just got Virgil and Jacket sat there going, any chance, lads? You know what frustrated me, Gareth, a little bit? And there's talk after the game about the lane and the manager's system and maybe they shouldn't all go. and you're saying, well, I want them to be a bit more on the front foot and press hide and all those things. But that for me is the most basic thing in football. I think everybody here has played football. And when you're first player five or six years of age and the first team you're ever playing, the manager from the sideline will be screaming at the kids when the ball goes forward.

49:12No, we need someone to stay back because the kids don't understand. So when I'm seeing footballers like, Vates, a boss like Ravenbridge doing that, that's not even a coach, that's like, that's unforgivable that because that is like the first thing when you play for your school football team and everyone's chasing the ball and running in the box. That's the first thing any manager says to a kid's football team at seven years of age. It's like, no, no, you need to play just there in case we lose it. That's all it is in case we lose it. I mean, football's a low scoring game so every time you attack 99 times out of 100 you don't score.

49:46You know, so you're thinking about but basically we've got to stop them going the other way. It's the mindset and nous, isn't it? It's like, as you say, if your midfield partner's going, then you drop a bit because you're like, OK, if they suddenly get the ball, I've got to help to protect the defence. But they're both going, they're both in the other box. And it's like, so we all don't know why Gavin Burke didn't shoot, but he didn't shoot. And then all of a sudden, Newcastle are away. And the second one for me is almost worse than the fact that we do actually get players around the ball. and none of them just boots him and takes him out and stops the attack.

50:20And it's like, I think, you know, the manager said that after the game, which I liked because a lot of managers won't acknowledge there's dark arts at times. But, you know, that to me again just says, are we a bit nice? Are we too soft? There's no one in there who would go, nah, I'm not having that. You would have took someone out on the halfway line there. Gerrard would have took someone out on the halfway line there. Her man would. You know, we can all go through a long list. It feels like we don't really have a player like that currently who's got that. Even Gravenberg, when he was doing the number six stuff, he wins the ball.

50:52He's not aggressive. He's more set-able, if you like. He's intercepting. He's in the right place. That type of stuff. I think we need someone more who sort of... I agree. I agree with that because the only one player we've got in the squad who does that is Endo. Yeah. And a manager... I don't know who he is. He started two games in two years in the Premier League, so he's never going to play a game of football. He needs to be moved on with Keiser. Players who are never going to play. You don't necessarily need always somebody, I think, in midfield who puts the foot in, but you need sometimes someone who holds a position.

51:27Even like a Michael Carrick. You wouldn't class him as someone who put his foot in. He was a passer, he was a player, but you never moved out of that position. So sometimes you just actually need bodies in that role. They're there for the ball, but they're there to actually stop counter-attacks. And I look at that, I think McAllister, he could probably still do that. But the reason why I was probably questioning that midfield set-up, and I want to ask your thoughts on it, because it's interesting with Florian Vates, because after what, Monday Night Football, I know there was a lot of Liverpool supporters, I still see him, I'm aware of what's getting said and what, still coming out to back him and you should be supporting him.

52:02But I've always felt now for probably about four or five months, this is going to come this way. you're saying we need a number six so let's say we get one who's the other two midfield spots? Yeah that's the conundrum isn't it? So you end up leaving out in my eyes your vice captain Sir Bosley you've just given a new contract to or a guy you've spent £110 million on I saw this coming about three or four months ago thinking if you think of last season Sir Bosley almost played everywhere except mid he played a bit he played in a diamond at times he played right back sometimes he played centre midfield sometimes he played number 10 we never sort of had it where it was a question about who was going to play so I'll ask you then where do you think Florian Vert actually if everything's functioning everything's going well what would be the set up in midfield where we could get him at his best but Sir Boz lies still in the team as well because he's our vice captain we've just got a new contract and that's it isn't it I mean you know when I've been talking about it on podcast all with my mates and stuff like you know could you stick up could just Ixabos lay out on the right.

53:09He's already played right back, which he didn't enjoy, but, you know, right back further forward, sorry, on the right but further forward, could that? But it's still feeling square pegs round those all the time. And this goes back to me to the strategy. Like, you know, if you look at, you know, I've thought on to Billy before about Brentford, and when Brentford buy players, they seem to buy players that fit Brentford. That used to be Liverpool. Yeah, and now it just seems to be like, our buying policy is we can see this fella he's good his stats are good we'll just buy him and then we'll work out how he fits in later 100 % and that hasn't worked obviously and then now we're days away from the window closing running round with a trolley trying to throw players into it last minute and again is that a strategy?

53:54Is he your best player Sabah Sly? Some people think he is and some people don't I think he probably is and the amount of money how is he I'm not saying he's not a great player he'd be a good player The interesting thing is, Luke, it's a good point, but within his fourth season, he's Liverpool's Player of the Year, he's just been given a new contract, I think we're all pleased he's signed, he's the vice-captain. If I asked you what position he plays, what would you say? I don't know. He's almost played a bit everywhere, but if you said to me, Sir Bosley, for me, if I was thinking, what's his best position?

54:27It would be as a number eight in a 4-3-3, the way Klopp used to play. Now, the last two managers have played with a number 10. I don't think he's a classic number 10, really, but I'd probably prefer him there than centre midfield. But in an ideal world, when I think of the Klopp teams, he plays in the Jordan Henderson position, and he's a bit like Jordan Henderson, but he's probably going to get you more goals, or he's going to shoot more, or be a bit more goal threat, I would say. Yeah, the whole thing just feels a bit messy. And even the sort of, I keep going back to it, but I think it is important that the transfer strategy, you know Minter Brighton are saying we won£80 million for them and obviously Liverpool are saying we're at too rich for us and walking away but it's because everyone in football knows Liverpool need a winger and they haven't bought one and now they're going to start getting desperate the manager wants one the manager's talking publicly about wanting one so anywhere Liverpool go knocking now there's a tax because A it's Liverpool and B they're desperate it's just interesting Les I wonder I asked you you were at the game at the week I'm sure you loved it It was end-to-end A tribute to Kevin Keane What did you think of both teams?

55:35I thought Newcastle Rode on the atmosphere Of what was going on On the day Liverpool probably Had more possession And after Newcastle scored I was sitting there thinking No you can't You can't do this You can't Because they sat back If you look at the two Centre forwards Wissau And Obviously his name up front Ossuru Ossuru Ossuru You looked at them and they were playing in midfield. They were that deep. They couldn't get out. But talking and listening to you guys speaking, you're saying, right, you only had two defenders on the pitch. Everyone else is attack-minded. If you think of how many shots the Newcastle goalkeeper had to make, none.

56:20Because there was no cutting edge. And afterwards, I was asked after the game, what did you think of Liverpool? And I thought, do you know what? I don't know what to say, yeah. I don't actually know what they were trying to do. Because they had loads of position, but there was no cutting edge. And for having that amount of attacking players on the pitch and not being able to cut open Newcastle, yeah, Newcastle threw everything on the line. But I go back to when I played for Newcastle, we probably only had two defenders. But we created chance after chance after chance after chance because it was all out attack.

56:55but if you've got eight attackers and none of them are creating chances then you're struggling I just thought it was a Liverpool side that I didn't recognise what they were trying to do But it feels like it's going to be a busy last few days doesn't it before the transfer window closed so we'll see what comes in and what comes out

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58:38The new season is here. We know football fans love saying the game's gone, but Skybet are celebrating everything that proves the game's back. This is the Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet.

59:16days for the manager? Yeah, definitely. In pre-season, we flirted with a back four, but ultimately, we knew it was going to be a back three, especially with the players that we signed. And yeah, it was a good performance in parts against Fulham. Obviously, we all know about the deficiencies in Chelsea's team. It was glaring on Monday night. The keeper definitely needs to be improved. But going forward, I said it in pre-season, I think a lot of Chelsea fans are saying it, but we need to see it in reality. We've got the best front three in the Premier League, the best attack in the Premier League.

59:42And when you're having players like Quenda and Estevelle coming off the bench, it talks about the strength and depth that Chelsea have got and you saw it within 30 seconds the Cole Palmer assist to Jao Pedro and you saw Morgan Rodgers score in his debut so Chelsea's team are going to be fun this season but defensively not just the goalkeeper as well on the left hand side of the back three I think Levi Cole will struggle I think he's a player that's probably more suited to playing down the middle but we've brought in Lacroix and so there are things to address but this is the benefit and some of you fans know playing one game a week it can't be overstated he's got time on the training ground and he'll have time to work.

1:00:15And he's definitely a manager that, if you talk to people a year ago, in terms of where his stocks are in the game, you say he's one of the best managers in the world. It didn't go well at Real Madrid, but we know about that football club. I think Chelsea fans are in for an exciting season. I think we have to capitalise. I'm not saying we're here to win the league, but it's very rare that a club of this size has the opportunity to play one game a week. I think that Chelsea this season have to really go for it. I mean, you go back to the deficiencies and we've been saying this for a couple of years now, we've just got some stats here.

1:00:42going back to the 2024-25 season, errors leading to goals. And the Chelsea goalkeeper is top of that list or second on that list and top of another list in terms of errors leading to shots or something. So it's been a problem, and it has been for a couple of years. Because of having no European football, I think it probably gives you an advantage in terms of the Premier League. Do you think that's the one thing that's going to really stop you and you're going to look back at the end of the season and think, why did we try and fix that? Because this could be an opportunity to be almost the best, the biggest challenges to Arsenal.

1:01:17100%. And if you look at Chelsea heritage, you've always had good keepers. Karlo Kodicini to Petr Cech to Thibaut Catois. And over the last few years, we've struggled in that department. Mendy came in and did a job, won the Champions League with him. But to be a top team in this league, you have to have a top keeper. We saw a team like Arsenal, who are the best team in the league right now, strengthen when people were happy with Ramsdale, they still brought in Raya. And he made them even better. So for a team like Chelsea who spent so much money over the last three or four seasons with this ownership group to not address that position, it seems like every single season Sanchez starts in goal, he loses his position to Petrovic or Jorgensen and eventually comes back in.

1:01:56I don't understand how this continues for the last three or four years, but I think this might have been the straw that broke the camel's back on Monday night football under the lights. Everyone's watching. So much talked about. And Chelsea are a team that were the dark horse. People were excited, but kind of sceptical. I think it played out all our weaknesses played out all our strengths played out I think Robert Sanchez is showing resilience I don't want to slag him off this early in the season but we all know that he's not good enough I feel a little bit for him because he's in goal he's obviously better than the other ones that you're torn about because they put him out and they bring him back in I think most people look at it and think that's going to stop Chelsea or it's probably not what Chelsea should have and I almost feel he knows that as well yeah everybody at Chelsea knows that it's almost like just take him out the firing line or just going by someone.

1:02:40He's almost been there too long, just getting battered and criticised. Under Baltimore. Just because he's not quite the level of the absolute elite. He's probably still a decent goalkeeper for a mid-table Premier League club. So I actually feel a little bit sorry for him that he's still in the firing line, really. It's an indictment. If you asked, I think, every single Premier League fan base, would you swap your goalkeeper for Robert Sanchez? They'd probably tell you no. And we're supposed to be a team challenging for a league title, potentially. So I do feel for him. He was great when we won the Club World Cup.

1:03:08We've won a couple of trophies with him in gold, but it's time for us to move on. And let's keep us available. People will point to Emi Martinez, especially because we've got a kid, Mike Pendus, who people are really excited about. We don't know how good he's going to be at the highest level. Martinez can be a perfect stopgap for a season and then let Pendus come in next year. But we need to address it. Are you excited about that front three? That looks really tasty to me, that. I don't know how anybody can't be. I'm not sure about the nickname. What's the nickname? J.P. Morgan, which I'm not sure about naming the front line after him.

1:03:39Game's gone. Game's gone. I'm really excited to see these players play at the very, very best. Like, last season, they all got double figures in their own rights at their own football club. If you look at Cole Palmer, terrible season for him, but still got double figures. Morgan Rodgers is a top player. And so is Jao Pedro. And I think Jao Pedro, behind Erling Haaland, is the best number nine in the league. He's one of these players that maybe isn't a definitive number nine, but he can get the goals. I think he'll struggle to get 20 goals because he doesn't take penalties. But in terms of collective, in terms of how they work together, In terms of what Cole Palmer looked like, I might be alone here by saying this, but I think Cole Palmer's, on his day, the best attacking player in the league.

1:04:16I think he's just got... Harland. I'm a massive fan of Cole Palmer. Yeah, he's a great player, Palmer. I still have Harland, I think. Yeah, that's fair enough. And you're obviously going to say that as a City fan. Also, Harland's got the resume. But in terms of, when you talk about the Premier League and what the Premier League's missing, those mavericks, those players that can get on the ball and make you feel something, I think it was great for the opening weekend to see Shirky come off the bench and do something. Cole Palmer to do something because you look at the Premier League right now we've got great midfielders we've got great defenders all the best attacking players playing La Liga and they continue to choose that league and so I think a player like Cole Palmer is not just important for Chelsea but important for this league 100 % would you sell Enzo Fernandes?

1:04:54nah nah you missed the deadline mate you missed the deadline like Enzo Fernandes is I'm not the biggest fan of him as a geezer or as a player but in the modern Premier League I think he's a player that has shown that he can get to top, top levels. He scored double figures in a terrible season for Chelsea last year. In the World Cup, despite our Singleton fans not loving him, he scored a big goal in a big moment, a couple of big goals in big moments. And I feel like any player that Chelsea bring in to replace him is a downgrade, especially this late. And if Chelsea show their hand and City pay 120 to 140 million, how much is Alex Scott going to cost Chelsea from Bournemouth where they need them?

1:05:30So I think at this moment in the window, especially where a season we haven't got European football, Chelsea should go and try and make the most of it and I think that anybody they bring in to replace Endo Fernandes will be a downgrade at this point. Les, you have your thoughts on Gio Pedro. I think he's a brilliant player, maybe. What do you think looking at him? It's interesting. You said Haaland is probably a better player. I think Haaland's a better goal scorer. I don't think he's a better player. I think Gio Pedro's got more about his game than Haaland. I think Haaland's a superstar goal scorer.

1:05:59But if you talk about actual playing, bringing people into the game and so on and so forth, Gael Pedro for me is the boy in the Premier League at the moment. If I was to pick out a centre-forward that I would want playing for my team, it would be him. He's a bit of a throwback, isn't he, in terms of he can do a bit of everything. Exactly. And when we brought him in, we weren't too sure, because the stick of the people you speak with at Brighton was, yeah, he scored a fair few goals, but most of them were penalties. At Chelsea, all his 15 goals were non-penalty goals. He ain't taking penalties on Cole Palmers in the team.

1:06:27But what he can do is dovetail nicely, drop into spaces, physical as well, got a bit about him, got the dog. I feel like a lot of players in the modern Premier League haven't got that nastiness, that dog. And you talk about Liverpool being a bit too nice. I think at Chelsea, you've got a few players that are nasty. When Chelsea were at very best, 0-4, 0-5, 0-5, 0-6, the teams you played against, they were nasty. They had a bit about them. Cheats, but you've got to get it done how you get it done. I'm joking, I'm joking. But it is what it is. That's why it's wrong that Alonso's your manager, he should still be fuming.

1:06:54Well, that's what I don't understand in terms of Alonso. It doesn't really align as a Chelsea manager in terms of the way that he carries himself. I don't know what happened with you, lot that didn't go for Alonso, especially after he got rid of, or before he got rid of slot. But I feel like he, the way that he carries himself, especially after the managers that we've had in Graham Potter, in Liam Rossini, no disrespect to those guys, but he comes with a different type of gravitas. He can put his Champions League medals on the table and he can say, I was one of the best players in the world. And a year ago, I was viewed as being one of the best managers in the world.

1:07:23And I feel like the next time we see Chelsea win a Premier League title, which might be this season, he'll be the manager to do it. Oh, might be this season. Well, I found basically who was certainly getting carried away over the summer was Tottenham, when you look on the back of what happened at the weekend. Ben, Ben, Ben. I mean, that was not a great way to come crashing back down to where reality was, was it? Not really, no. I saw Flav on here a couple of weeks ago. You stitched him up about challenging for the title. I think the thing is with Tottenham, I feel like the biggest thing that we're going to have to deal with this season is that outside noise and outside pressure because of the money that we've spent.

1:08:00I think after Saturday, I was there. It was horrendous. It was obviously such a bad performance. But I think collectively as a fan base, we're probably a bit more calmer than what the outside perceive us to be about it. We're still a bit of a team in transition. We've spent a lot of money. You'd probably say that three or four of those players that started in that team against Brentford actually get into our best 11. But then again, with the players that are coming through the door, there's still going to be an adaption period for them as well. So I think most Spurs fans, despite being excited about the money that we've spent and finally properly backing a manager, we're still thinking internally as a fan base that this is probably going to take a bit of time.

1:08:34I don't think it's going to be like what we had with Ange in those first 10 games where nobody expected anything of us really because we'd just lost Harry Kane and nobody knew anything about Postacoglu really. And we were top of the league after 10 games and absolutely flying. I don't think it's going to be like that. And I felt like that all throughout the summer despite getting excited about some of the players. but yeah Saturday was a it was a horrendous performance I think it exposed some of the issues that we may have under De Zerbe in this current Premier League climate but also which are?

1:09:02Well I think obviously when teams press onto him as they did I mean you kind of covered it on Monday we're going to need a better outball than what we've got obviously teams kind of want to flood the middle stop us playing through there because we've got very good ball playing centre backs in Van Hecker and Seneci and Van de Ven to come back in as well but you've got Kinski who's got very good long distribution but if you haven't got quality players in the forward line that can retain the ball. The ball gets turned over so easily and then we get exposed going back the other way. And we haven't really got the quality of full-backs at the moment to build up around the sides and kind of go around that without Pedro Porro.

1:09:31So I think there are going to be teething problems and I don't think they're going to be solved immediately by the new players coming in. But I also like them as fits for what Dezerbi wants to do long-term. But what do you think about the attacking players who are coming? It looks like Savinho, Mami, are over the line. Yeah, I mean, Savinho is probably, or Savio as he wants to be called now, is that I think the longest drawn-out transfer saga I think I've been through in my life as a Spurs fan, other than Leandro Damiano, a Spurs fan. It's more painful for me, mate, waiting for him to go, to be honest.

1:09:58Well, you know, you'll see a different player this year, mate. I think that De Zerbi spoke about yesterday when we announced him that he's wanted him since he was at Brighton, I think 23, 24, going back to when Savino was at Girona. And he was quite open, actually, about what his strengths and weaknesses are, which was actually quite refreshing to hear from a manager in an interview like that. he was like 1v1 he's absolutely amazing but he needs to improve his output he needs to improve his finishing and to do that in kind of a club facing media interview I thought was quite good actually because it gives a bit of a carrot to him to say I've backed you you know you were our plan A for this position now you've got to show me why I've done that imagine how much it cost if you could finish well exactly yeah I mean there is a the thing is with Savino watching him at City when he first went in there I was excited by him and I think he was your top assist in 24 25 I know you had a poor season but you got two goals in 53 You can't gloss over that.

1:10:49No, he needs to improve that 100%. But I think he's definitely an upgrade in terms of the quality that we've got in wide areas. Obviously, Marmouche coming through the door as well. He's decent. I think it's going to be interesting to see where Marmouche plays. It'll be interesting to see what you think Les is a striker. I think his best position is playing off of a nine. I think if you can get Solanke fully fit, which has been a challenge over the last year or so, but I think what Solanke brings is that backboard ability to link the play, a massive upgrade on Richarlison, and we saw his inability to do that on Saturday.

1:11:18I think Mahmoud, especially with the fact that Spurs haven't got fit number 10 at the moment, I think that is where you can platform him maybe the best. So it'd be interesting to see whether De Zerbe does that or plays him through the middle. It almost feels like a whole new team. You've got defenders, you've got lots of midfield players and now it looks like in the last week of the window you're going to get two or three strikers. It's a massive overhaul, isn't it? Well, off the top of my head, thinking about what our best team could be, the only players that get into that that would have started the last game of the season last year Aporo Kinski and then I can't remember the exact team against Everton in that game but everything else is probably different you've got Kudus to come back from injury hopefully Kuliszewski at some point as well Savinho coming in on the other side Marmouche is a new number nine and then you've got a completely new midfield pivot which I think once they start playing together I think as bad as we were I think you saw the difference in quality when Fernandes came on the pitch at half time on Saturday I think he despite the money spent on Tonali I think he's going to be more important for Spurs than Tonali.

1:12:16Fernandes is an upgrade in midfield we've needed for so long. But again, Tonali's going to have to deal with the pressure and the scrutiny of being a£100 million player. And I think that, again, kind of goes back to what Spurs are going to have to deal with a lot from the outside. But there's no doubt we've made big upgrades, but that puts pressure on De Zerbe. Is there... Archie Gray, I mean, did I read or have I got this right that you have to go back to Steve Perryman for a younger captain? Yeah. OK, so great achievement for him to captain a club of that side. But is that an indictment of the lack of leadership of the club?

1:12:48Of someone so young and so almost new to the club, really? In a couple of years? Well, Spurs named their leadership group the other day. And Mickey van der Ven is the new club captain. Pedro Porro is the vice captain. Archie Gray is in there. James Madison is in there. And there were rumours that Madison was going to be the first choice captain earlier on in the summer and they kind of faded away. I don't know if that's because he's picked up further injury or they can't rely on him to be fit. and then I think it was, I can't remember who was the fifth player actually off the top of my head, but it was those four and another one.

1:13:16And Archie Gray has been captain in most of the pre-season games so far, which I think in pre-season you think that's fine. It shows that the Zerbe trusts him long-term and I think he's wanting to, again, give him a bit of a carrot to say, I trust you, you're going to be a player here. You probably don't get into our best midfield right now, but I'm going to give you minutes and I believe in you as a character. And I think Archie Gray could go on to be that kind of player as a future captain of the club or whether it's at Tottenham or somewhere else. I think he's got the minerals to do that. But the reality is that the players that would have been captain ahead of him just aren't available right now.

1:13:47I think people will look at that from the outside and think because we were so poor and a bit ratherless on Saturday, people are going, well, Archie Gray was the captain. What did you expect? But I think that's not going to be a long-term thing. But again, I guess the lack of leadership and sort of cohesiveness. What about Robinson? Because, I mean, he's up for it. Yeah, I am surprised that Gray was given that opportunity throughout pre-season as well considering we did have experience and a lot of those line-ups that were playing. And then to carry that into the season, again, I was a bit surprised.

1:14:14You know, I love Archie Gray. I believe in him as a talent. So I'm buzzing for him to see that. But it is a bit surprising. De Zerbe's spoken about having a lot of captains and a lot of leaders throughout the squad. But, you know, is Archie Gray at 20 years old going to be the one that's like, right, lads, come on, let's sort this out. Heads up, what are we doing? What do you think, Laz? I, you know, you look at Tony Adams being captain of Arsenal at a young age, Ray Wilkins, when he was at Chelsea. There were some big personalities in those dressing rooms. but Tony Adams was that guy that was going around in the dressing rooms all like screaming and shouting and you thinking he's only and he's so Artie Gray could be that guy in the dressing rooms and I was like Artie Gray's captain because he seems a quiet lad but like I said I was out at lunch the week before the start of the season and he walked in and he had a presence about him and you know sometimes you look at someone and you go stood up shook everyone's hand and went around and was talking to people and I just thought, you've got to say something about you.

1:15:10And as you said about, I looked at the first game and I thought, right, half the team that are playing wouldn't get into the starting line-up. And so you've got to take that into account. But because they've spent the sort of money that they've spent, you were expecting a lot more. But I sat there and I spoke to the manager, spent some time speaking to the manager. You know, when you speak to someone, and all I could think is that I could have played for you. I'd have liked to have played for you as a manager. watched training and watched the way he was on the training pitch and just thought, yeah, he's got a bit about him.

1:15:41And I've got no problem. So you're still excited? I'm still excited. I think, yeah, the first get out of the way. And listen, let's not disrespect this Brentford side because I think this is a very good Brentford side. And I'd seen one of their guys who'd worked at Spurs before he went to Brentford. And he said, we will be more than a match for Tottenham on Saturday. And it proved that, you know, this is a good Brentford side. What's success for Tottenham this season, Les? I think top half. I think top half, you know, So people would probably expect more because of the way the season has started.

1:16:09Not from Tottenham, but looking at everybody else. I still think if we can get Solanke fit, they need a centre forward who can stay fit. And the way that Solanke plays will help a Mamouche, it will help a Kudos, it will help a Madison in the areas that they play, if he can stay fit. I think if they get that centre forward, then you're looking at the top six of the Premier League, if they can get a centre forward. Would you, as that third attack in signing that we've been linked with, obviously we've been linked with Gakpo quite a lot, would you pivot away from maybe Gakpo as a winger and look at trying to get another number nine potentially in the last week of the window?

1:16:46Because that's where I feel like I'm at at the moment. Personally, I would. Yeah. But then I'd look at it and say, who's that number nine you're going to get? Yeah, that's the problem. There's not a lot that's available at the moment that you could say, right, we're going to stick him up there. Yeah. That's the biggest problem. There's not that many number nines around that you could choose from. Agreed.

1:17:10Billy, Brentford, big smile on your face and rightly so. I think, having watched all the games over the weekend, I think Brentford's performance was the best of the weekend. It was absolutely fantastic, especially in the first half. So great to have you back. Yes, good to have you. And what was it that worked so well for Brentford at the weekend? and do you think that's going to propel you forward to have a real push out of your playing position? I'll tell you what it was. It's like a building process. We've come in the Premier League and a lot of people say, you've got to do this, you've got to do that, you've got to buy loads of players.

1:17:47But with Brentford, they're really, really clever how they go about doing it. And what they do is that they add players, don't spend a lot of money, and year on year, the team gets better. It's almost like swimming in the water, but just keeping in the water there. They don't go mad, they don't spend£300 million because we can't do that. You sort of kind of build it and build it. Yeah, we lose players. We might sell a player for 30 million. We buy four players in for that. So that's kind of happened over the years. Then it gets to a season where all of a sudden Brentford go, right, okay, we're ready to go now.

1:18:15Last season, I think we were going to do it. Then obviously Keith Andrews left. You know, Wiesa went on strike. You know, then he decides to leave. You know, Norgard left. So we had a lot of players. We had a lot of change. So at that stage, we had to kind of stabilise last season, get the new manager in, get him up to stretch. So we got him up to scratch. All of a sudden, people thought, you know, he's going to get us relegated. All of a sudden, they thought, actually, great manager here. Back end of the season, we look really good. So what Brentford did this season, we haven't lost any players or haven't lost any key players, but they said, we've got to look at the key positions that we need to actually get us to that next level.

1:18:46One of the key positions, midfield, bringing in Sangare. Absolutely brilliant move. Lots of teams were after him as well. Brentford had scouting him from time, and they just sat down there and said, you're right, we're going to make you a key player for us. I went out to Tehran in France to go and see us pre-season friendly. He played in that game and everyone's going, oh my God, he's next level, isn't he? He's absolutely brilliant. Played a French team. He actually played for Lens last season. They won the Cup last season and, you know, overseas Champions League. And all the French players are going, how did you get him?

1:19:17You know, Brentford, how do you get him? He's one of the best players in the French League. They said, he's going to be absolutely brilliant for you. So for us, there's a lot of confidence for the fans because we've seen how we've upped the level. Also, last season, what happens is, if you remember, people were very surprised because we came out of the blue and all of a sudden they're like, they're doing really well, Brentford. We got to February, you know, we beat Newcastle away, we beat Villa away, we never beat them away, doing really well. And then we petered off, I think in the last 12 games, I think we drew nine and we, you know, lost a few.

1:19:46So we drew, you know, that. So we petered off and the reason why we petered off, no strength and depth. Again, we're small sides, so we didn't have a strength and depth. So this season, now what we've done is that strength and depth we've got in Callum Wilson so if Thiago has to go off we've brought him in great striker he's a striker as well great attitude he's happy to sit on the bench for 70 minutes or 75 minutes come off the last 15 minutes knock him one in three you know we brought Jadon Anthony from Burnley he caused us all sorts of problems last season when we had that mad game was it 5-4 6-5 something like that he came off and he caused all sorts of problems as well every time we have a winger which is either Shada or Tara goes off we haven't got really anyone to replace but now we've got him He played against Birmingham.

1:20:26I just came from Birmingham last night. And Anthony came. He set up three goals. Absolutely brilliant. You know what I'm saying? So all of a sudden, we've got that strength in that. So there's a lot that's happened to Brentford. On this show a year ago, I think when we were speaking to fans as the season was kicking off, most people would have looked at Keith Andrews and thought he could be the first managerial casualty. How well has he done? Oh, Keith's brilliant, you know. He's absolutely brilliant. I have to say, I'm going to put my hand up as well. Backed him from day one. I said that we're going to finish 14th.

1:20:54So even I got that. to a certain extent, you know what I'm saying? But he's great because the fact is that if you look at him beforehand, when he was a pundit in Sky, he was one of those pundits in Sky as well that actually kind of like he looked and he talked tactically. He talked a lot of sense. Not many of them. No. So he was great. Then he's come in, but also he spent a year working, you know, under Thomas Frank as well. Brentford are really clever because everyone goes, oh, you've got this headpiece coach here. You know, but what they did is that. They brought him in and they just said, hello, mate, Keith.

1:21:23Right, we're going to give you a job. What job? a set-piece coach, and they sort of got him a set-piece coach, then they watch him to see what he's like, to see what he's like interacting with the players, sitting in the meetings, actually putting his... So he kind of learnt that over the year. He's come in, I mean, we're really lucky as a besotted podcast. We got him down the pub, actually. Actually, after the Liverpool game, the day after we played Liverpool, last game of the season, fair play to Keith. He drove back from Liverpool, came down, we said, right, if you're going to do a podcast, we were in the pub, so we got him in the pub, sat down for two, two and a half hours with him, and we just talked Brentford as we do, you know, it's like that.

1:21:54And he is totally and utterly in his football. He knows what he's talking about. The players love him as well. And all these kind of factors, this whole thing about Brentford is about culture. I mean, we're talking about, you know, Tottenham, we're talking about, you know, Chelsea. And I hear you talking about spending all, lots of money to try and fix things. You know what I'm saying? Brentford never do that. In all our years, we kind of go slowly, slowly, because they say the best thing to do, you need to sort your club out from bottom upwards, right? Then it will come. If that takes six years or eight years or ten years.

1:22:25So when I sat down with the owner, what, ten years ago, and he's sitting down, we're going to do this, we're going to do that, we're going to build it slowly. Bournemouth, great club, actually, really, really well run. We've got to get ourselves like that. We're not quite like that yet. But you see, he's given you the plan 2014, and now we're sitting there 2026, and everything that he says has come true because the vision has got to be there. And I see so many clubs who think they can just throw money, throw money at it to make it work, and it's not like that. And Brentford, listen, we might sign some players, then it might go wrong.

1:22:53But in general, if the vision is there to that next level, it's great. And Keefe is part of that vision where they just said, tell you something, we don't care if you're not a name brand. You know what you're doing. We'll put you in. You're going to do business. Well, as I said, it was the best performance of the weekend and a nice little stat here. Brentford attempted 26 shots in the game. Their highest total in a single match in the Premier League since the start of last season. So a brilliant way to start. And Les, I'm just going to come to you now. We've spoken to all of the supporters little prediction from you can you give us your top five top five okay I go it pains me to say but I go Arsenal then I think Chelsea will run them close from what I've seen so far I think Liverpool will be up there I do think once they get their players up and firing they'll be up there

1:23:54Man United Man United are getting themselves there I'm still debating on what Man City need to bring some players in Well I can just inform you That it is now official You have signed Buwadi Good stuff 85 million Good stuff So that's done That old to you think him? Yeah Man City That'd be my top five Okay Right Right, the transfer deadline day on September 1st. So it's a question to all of you. If you can sign one player before the deadline shuts, what position and who is it? Right, Luke, you start. I think I'd just go easy and probably say Enzo Fernandes. We need another midfielder. Probably need a forward as well, like we were just saying.

1:24:44But probably I'd go Enzo Fernandes. Yo? I think we need a striker. I think when Cesc is not playing, there's a massive gap in the middle and Zerks is not going to score any goals this season. So I know Watkins seems to be off to Saudi, but I'd take Watkins, I'd take Mateta, I'd take anyone with a bit of Premier League experience, to be honest. I think I'd go Barkler at this point. Swoop in, you're not sort of making any progress. Just a ruffle of feathers as well? Yeah, why not? Just for the fume? Yeah, I mean, it'd be good fun. It's a lot of money, but Alvarez just seems like a weird one. We know we need a left winger.

1:25:16We sold Martinelli and Tross our team, isn't it? So I think leaving it just to Crystal Solis is a big call. So I'll just go and get Barclay, I think. Philippe? One player that we need, we need a left-back. I mean, we're all right as we is, but we need a left-back. And the moment that we're looking at Dio from West Ham, in fact, we might find out by the time we come off the show, actually, whether or not we've got him or not. So that's kind of looking at. As Brentford, you know, as we don't do, we don't go and sort of sign these big-name marquee players that everyone knows. We always try and find and sign players that nobody knows.

1:25:46So I think somebody like him, I mean, obviously, if you've seen Coyote, how he plays on the right wing, you know, he starts on the right back, he starts on the right back and then he ends up, like, left wing, you know what I'm saying? So I've heard deals a bit like that. So we might have a left winger who's going to end up on the right wing as well. So we'll have all sorts of stuff confusing the opposition. Sounds great to me. This was a quick fire round. Got it. I think we need much more than one player. So I don't want us to assign Barcola. I want us to use that money across three or four players.

1:26:16so if you're saying one go in by PSG because at least he can play on the right OK I'm going goalkeeper Em Martinez I think it's a tap in really I'd go striker and I'd go Nicholas Jackson Chelsea I think for the way De Zerbe wants to play I think he's an upgrade on Richarlison Right then before we go it's time for our fan debate community question sent in by Josh from Wolverhampton Diego Maradona's Hand of God Football from the 1986 World Cup win over England sold for 2.5 million what is one footballing piece of memorabilia that you would love to own and how much would you be willing to pay I would have taken Steve Hodges shirt from Maradona yeah yeah yeah Hodges got it Steve Hodges what did that go for Steve Hodges shirt 7 million or Maradona's shirt not Steve Hodges shirt I'd go Balotelli's top Balotelli's why always me top I'd go for So was it a vest or a ticket?

1:27:17The under thing he pulled it up Old Trafford just that top to hang on the wall How much did you pay? 50 quid 30 I'd take Rooney's debut shirt with a ripped collar against Fenerbahce where he scored the hat-trick that'd be pretty good OK Pretty iconic kit Er I'd take the clock from the clock end at the Emirates Oh yeah That'd be a mega clock though There's just no clock Everyone's like where's Rory's ball You've got a big screen now. You don't need the club. How much would I spend on it? What's the stand going to be called? What are you going to rename the stand? The Rory. That's a great sponsorship.

1:27:57Billy, anything? I'll tell you something. I actually do miss this. It's not Brentford related, but I do miss the Twin Towers. Yeah, good show. Just put one of them in your backyard. Get the kids going in and out of it. So that could be quite interesting. Any takers at the bottom now? I'd have the camera that Ian Rush broke in the 1986. Great shells. Yeah. I'd take Zola's shirt from his last game against you, look. Oh, is that where I'm falling all over the fucking floor? I could have got my hands on it.

1:28:30I'd go... I don't know. I'd go maybe Harry Kane's first, his debut Spurs shirt or something like that. OK. The old 37 on the back as well. Could you give it a four years? Is there anything, Les, you've had in your career that you've given away that you think oh god I wish that you were a shirt or a match bowler you think you look back now you think it's given everything away I think mate yeah there's not many shirts we've got left only a couple but if I I'll tell you what I've got believe it or not I played against Dag I met Donner in a in a charity game and I couldn't get his top but he signed his wet top for me still got that in the wardrobe that would be worth a few that won't be worth 7ml it won't be worth 7ml but we'll have a free break.

1:29:13All right, brilliant. Thanks, gang. Thank you. And that's it for today's episode of The Fan Debate, brought to you by Skybet. Catch you next time. APPLAUSE

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