Carrick Favourite To Stay At United? Arsenal’s Title Nerves & Chelsea’s Big Problem | The Overlap Fan Debate

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2:06Gary Neville: Show of hands. Arsenal for the title, show of hands in here. Who thinks City will win the title? Ooh, it's overwhelming. That football, it's just... Why are they behaving like prima donnas like that? That is disgraceful. Is this not one of the greatest moments in your history from a point of view of sort of telling the story. Absolutely not, Gary, no. Arsenal fans do demand this kind of respect without having really won anything. When did you ever grab a head? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't grab a head. Didn't you two kiss on the lips once when you were going to buy? You kissed everyone. When you look at the number of mistakes that they've made, this is a big drop in standards.

2:45The worst decision I've ever seen in my life. We get relegated and Arsenal don't win the league in the same day. I might take that.

2:54Gary Neville: If you win the league, obviously, it's going to be completely and utter euphoria. There'll be 60 ,000 people crying. What will it be like if you don't win it? There'll be 60 ,000 people crying.

3:09Gary Neville: So hello and welcome back to the Fan Debate, brought to you by Skybet. It's me and Ficarra today with Scolzi and alongside me are our loyal fans. How are you all doing? We all good? Thanks for that. Scolese, title race where are you at on it? Who do you think is going to win it? Well where are you at in terms of who you think is going to win who's handling it better what's happening right now? City are handling it better aren't they I think with the big game last week Arsenal limped over the line a little bit against Newcastle again I just think City there's a flow to City I know there's not massive experience in the squad but they've got the manager who's got the experience, which is a big thing.

3:54I think it's going to be close. I don't think there's any doubt in that. I just think City are capable of winning every game.

4:03Gary Neville: Do you know what blows my mind? The opt, I don't look at it particularly, but the actual opt... What you have done. Yeah. It blew my mind after the game, City-Arsenal, and I've actually seen it again this morning. And is it 72 %? Basically, there's 72 % Arsenal a favourite Yeah I don't get that I just don't see how They can be that I don't see how It can be that sort of Emphatic about Arsenal winning the league But What does that take into account Of the remaining fixtures I thought Now look They're all difficult At this time of the season We've been there Every game at this time of the season Is hard to win Now look I think you've got Villa away Everton away Villa at home Yeah Villa at home Villa at home Bournemouth away Bournemouth away yeah I just think City Will win their game Now look I think Arsenal's a chance Arsenal will win their games, but I think they'll do it in a different way.

4:52I think there's a flow to City. I think they're playing really well. I think if Arsenal are going to do it, it's going to be a limp over the line, I think. Goal difference could be big, couldn't it?

5:04Gary Neville: Matt, is that fair? Limp over the line. Were you in the ground on Saturday? I actually was watching it at a pub with Ray Parler. Jeez, you weren't watching it. So you don't remember what happened? I've been to every other game, but no. On Saturday, I got a good look at our team and it sums up how we've been this season. Go 1-0 up pretty early on, sit back for the rest of the game, invite the pressure and then drop down to the floor out of energy at the end of the game. I was in the stadium, I've been in the stadium quite a bit recently and it's difficult to say to fans, don't feel the nerves because obviously you're feeling it, you've not won a league title for such a long time.

5:44Gary Neville: but is there a way in which the fans can change the atmosphere in the stadium and say almost like, let's just forget, almost like, let us forget let's not put sort of like, what would be extra pressure on the team and just sing all the way through it sometimes, you know, United fans or particularly United away from home fans they just sing the whole way through the game and almost in some ways it almost like takes over and the players respond to that there's almost like every time Arsenal make a mistake in the stadium I mean, we're sat right in front of them you hear every single groan and sort of gasp Is there something the Arsenal fans can do?

6:15Gary Neville: I was saying beforehand, I've never witnessed a team and a fan base so connected in a stadium where, based on the performance, if the players look nervous, everyone in the stadium's nervous. If the fans are nervous, the players are nervous. Everything that we give will either bring them down or bring them up. And I think that we do have to come together and be a little bit louder than we have been because it's just a bottle of nerves when you get in there. You can cut through the tension. It's sickening. I don't enjoy going No I must have You don't go On Saturday to be fair I have to say that the only enjoyable point for the Arsenal fans was the goal in the first 10-12 minutes obviously it was a brilliant moment and then actually the final whistle everything in between that just felt like a sort of like a Yeah It's because and I was going to say it later on in the segment but the difference between us and Man City is I feel like we are scared of dropping points whereas they are starving to gain them and that's what's scary Joe's going to speak to you early on this season when they signed Zubimendi what are you smoking for?

7:20Gary Neville: Because I told you No but when they signed Zubimendi It was the end of last season Oh no it was the Yeah they signed Zubimendi I'd seen him come obviously I mean I was there in the Berlin Stadium a couple of years ago when Rodri came off at half time and I'm thinking we're in the European Championship Zubimendi's coming on and he was absolutely brilliant he gets control of the ball he's someone who relaxes everybody and I really expected him in this period when Arsenal are sort of definitely finding it difficult. I expected him, more than Declan Rice and the others, to be honest with you, to actually be that controlling element, a little bit like you were at times, where you think, right, OK, we're safe, he's on the ball, he's got the rhythm of the team, and he's just fallen away really a lot in the last few weeks, hasn't he?

8:00Yeah, do you know what? It's probably, it's a long season, the Premier League's tough, isn't it? It's a long season, they probably wouldn't have experienced anything like this before in Spain. He probably wouldn't be good for a title in Spain, would we? with Solskjaer, I suppose. And when I'd seen him for Solskjaer, you were saying, if I remember right, that he was someone who progresses the ball up the pitch and I never saw him as that. I didn't see him loads, but I never thought he was going to be a player that's going to make your team play good football. And I think your central midfield player has to do that.

8:33Gary Neville: I thought he would get on the half turn in deeper positions, but I thought he would push it through into Erdogan and into Eze. I don't think he does that, though. I don't think he progresses the game enough. Now, that game on Saturday, look, I didn't see all of it. I probably saw the first half an hour. But I think Odegaard's a big problem for them as well. I think the number 10 position, I love Odegaard. I think he's brilliant technically. He's great, but he doesn't play his position properly. Half the time I saw him in the first 20 minutes, he's almost the deepest man. Yeah, he went deep on Saturday.

9:05It's that football, it's just, it's bullshit.

9:08Gary Neville: Do you think that that's him or that's what he's being told to do? I think that was at the game. I think both him and Declan have been told to go deeper, similar to what Rodri and Bernardo did the week before and get the ball in between the centre-backs. Mikel, to be fair, they must have been under instruction. There's no way... Whether they've been told that or not, Odegaard is a number 10. Odegaard connects your midfield to your forward play and you wonder why there's no flow in your team when he's behind Zubamendi, he's behind Declan Rice. how can you get connections there now I also think that Saka not being there is a problem because I think Zuberman sorry Odegaard does connect well with Saka once he gets in them positions behind the midfield then Saka's off and running now I don't think he'll have quite that connection with Jokeres because he's not that type of player possibly with Havertz he could have it so if I'm a central midfield player from Arsenal I don't need you here you're not needed in between in the back you've got to be there so I can then progress the ball up the pitch to you especially because you've got great ability almost in a David Silva kind of way that he connects in Manchester City's midfield to the attacking play stay there but do you not think that from a control point of view with Arteta obviously being obsessed with controlling the game which is what he's done from start to finish this season Odegaard in that role is best suited and then you've got someone like Eze to put the final as a deep look at I think either of them are suited to it I think Eze will produce more moments from the edge of the box scoring goals than Odegaard but I think Odegaard will make you a better football team if he plays in the right position I agree I mean John Saturday he didn't get control of the game though because I think Newcastle had 55-60 % of the ball and Tonali and Gemma Rij to be fair they control the game they are they are really good players to be fair so I think they can shock you a little bit because I think they'll do most midfields in the Premier League when I see them they're just like They're just really good.

11:06Gary Neville: Full stop. But they didn't control the game. I think if Odegaard had gone deeper and then Arsenal did get control of the game, I would have said, fair enough, they're doing it to get control, but they didn't actually get control of the game. And that, I think, is a big problem. Luke, just coming to you, talk about Arsenal for me. If City are going to lose this, how are you going to lose it? Give some comfort to an Arsenal fan in the first part of your answer if you can. Yeah, well, I think if City are going to lose, I think Arsenal win every game from now to the end of the season. but there's been so many moments this season and it's rare that we'd be in this position and I'd say this but there's been times where I've thought it was done to be honest we lost to United at the start of the season or start of the year, sorry and Arsenal had a chance to go nine points clear having played the same amount of games and they drew to Forest went away to Tottenham, messed it up and the door's just been kept open so many times so you need to just shut the door by winning your games and ultimately, three weeks ago which is pretty much last time we were on here Arsenal could have gone 12 points clear and you messed that up and then you came to the Etihad and lost so if you're going to win it you're going to win every game I don't know if that's going to comfort you or not but I think that's the only way Arsenal can win the league to be honest because if it goes to goal difference personally I think the way they've been winning games I understand we've played Burnley and won 1-0 but the way we create chances in games especially that one as well we could have probably scored 3 or 4 that day so if it goes level on points I think we'll probably do the goal difference we've got more games as well you obviously beat Newcastle 1-0 but I'm absolutely buzzing I don't really know how we're in this position yeah I thought City to be fair I thought City this was one year too early in fact I couldn't see where this new team was coming from probably pre-Christmas but all of a sudden now the defence the two centre-backs the three behind Haaland they look the two signings in January were big as well weren't they Gettys made a massive difference to us Nick O 'Reilly's ridiculous O 'Reilly's been brilliant as well Kuzinov's been like unbelievable like for his age as well when he first came in he had one mistake in his first game and I feel like the whole media just sort of gave up on him straight away To be fair City fans were looking at him thinking he looked like a startled rabbit Yeah but then he got pulled off He's a bad eight Yeah He's actually only ever had five birthdays actually he's born in a league So yeah but I think he's been unbelievable the confidence he's got at such a young age as well and how fast he is every time anyone gets in behind it's like having Kyle Walker at centre back he's so quick and I think yeah I think he's been yeah massive for us this season do you think there's a suggestion that you over celebrated against after the Arsenal game I must admit I was in the stadium I didn't think that but there was a suggestion you did over celebrate after that game I mean we've got to back it up now if people think that they can say what they want ultimately all this celebration stuff it's not going to matter whether we win the league or we don't win the league you know we're either going to have the trophy or we're not so yeah I wouldn't read into it I don't think people were over celebrating I think ultimately if there's one weekend where you could be 12 points behind and then you know the following week you end up level on points pretty much I think you know it's worthy of celebrating so yeah I was buzzing for it People were super motivated about Arsenal though didn't they?

14:18Say it again City seemed super motivated about Arsenal like you've got Cherki who's been talking about Arsenal in the press you've got Haaland who obviously had this issue with Lewis Skelly it's like the worst those two motivated against Arsenal for the next 10 years. I think they smell blood though and they know how to get under their skins. They do it constantly. Maybe those celebrations would send a message to the Arsenal dressing room. Yeah, I think the League Cup final as well. You saw all the Arsenal players stood on the pitch watching and from what I saw all the Arsenal fans were saying they're going to use this as fuel, they're going to do this, they're going to do that and then, you know, I think first sort of 20 minutes at the Etihad, I don't know if you could see it much on TV but especially behind the goal where I was, Raya was wasting time and the crowd were really rattled by the City fans were just thinking are Arsenal going to go for a point and then obviously they did go for it in the end so you can respect him for that but ultimately I think Arsenal fans do demand this kind of respect without having really won anything so maybe that's where it comes from The celebration police need to mind Yeah I don't get it over celebrating It's the same What a load of bullshit Can a club not celebrate a massive win?

15:21Why wouldn't City fans celebrate that? They should everyone should when you beat Liverpool last year I mean you know we had all the same thing and then your boys last week celebrated in the derby, didn't you? That's what you should do. No, exactly. That's what you should do. I don't get all that, this is your cup final. It's maddening. It's the local rivals, so of course you made up. No problem with it, Luke. Enjoy it.

15:42Gary Neville: Didn't you two kiss on the lips once when you were going to win? You kissed everyone. I used to, to be fair, I did. You answered yes, Gary. Yeah, I did, yeah. I mean, there's some evidence out there, I think. There might be, yeah. But Joseph, I mean, to be fair, we celebrated a goal at the end of a game was different so I think a goal to be fair we would celebrate goals we were actually ordered's the wrong word but it was built into us you have to celebrate goals that is like in fact he'd kill us if a player didn't celebrate a goal and we disrespected each other or we didn't demonstrate to the fans that we were like happy he would go crazy wouldn't he yeah it was a big part make sure you celebrate together so he just built into us over 20 years you ran to our ends to celebrate I remember that I did sometimes I detach Sometimes I detach myself from my own players and just have a little wonder.

16:30Gary Neville: A few snap seats in Old Trafford that day. Well, that's why I got fined. It was the police that complained. That's why I got fined, because they said that I incited violence. You can be a little bit emotional, can't you, Gary? I was emotional on goals, definitely. The best one was when we won 4-3 against City and we had no subs left. You went to warm up. I had to pretend I was warming up, but we had no subs left. Mark Hughes as well, wasn't it? Was that Mark Hughes? it was sparky oh it was brilliant that I always talk to Mike because Mike Richards was just a little bit wide and Giggs he just slipped that pass inside Mike Lohan oh it was brilliant that Luke I've got a question for you in terms of Arsenal's players it's pretty obvious the answer to this but Arsenal have got a group of players who only as AI I think has got showing a little bit of swagger and confidence the rest of them to be fair are quite rigid right now and not playing but you've got a number of players who haven't won the league you know Gaye's not won the league Kusunov's not Kusinov's not won the league not sure Nico O 'Reilly's not won the league Semenyo's not won the league Cherki's not won the league with City there's five or six players that are at this moment and I'd say out of those five or six players most of them are looking like unbelievable you mentioned Nico O 'Reilly before he did something in the game against Arsenal I couldn't get my head around that to be honest with you wriggling out of those two players yeah even just to try it and then to do it is like a different thing it's just not I just don't I can't recognise to be fair what he's doing on the pitch as being a full-back it's unbelievable why is it that City's young players ones that haven't won the league are so relaxed look so confident look so sure yet the Arsenal players are sort of in a very different sort of mentality right now there's an expectation at City and the players that are surrounding those players that you're on about if you go in the dressing room you've got Bernardo Silva you've got Diaz he's injured at the moment you've got Diaz you've got Haaland you've got Rodri the whole spine of that team even Donnarumma won the treble last season so the whole spine of the team in that dressing room and it's a relaxation that ultimately they believe they can do it and I think Arsenal are too busy thinking about if this if that I think City are just driven to try and win the games and hopefully we can do it but yeah I think Arsenal are just lacking that confidence in themselves and like you said the crowd aren't confident they're nervous and that's going to surface in the players more so than the crowd to be honest What I found confusing was against City I thought Arsenal were really really good especially in the attack and they looked like they had goals in them but I thought why haven't you played like that in the games prior to that and then gone a little bit tight against City when a draw probably helped like it just felt like a weird way We usually match our opponents weirdly so like we played Mansfield we struggled against Mansfield but then we'll go to City and we'll give them a game it's like our opponents sort of the level that they're at we sort of level that Is that a flaw?

19:18Does that make sense? Is that not a flaw? Yeah it's not a great thing I'd like us to turn up every week and batter teams but I think you're overcomplicating it I think we're simply up against a juggernaut that literally licks his lips at title races like this and he knows how to No they lick their lips when they see that you're crumbling and you're wobbling But that's what they do Pep Guardiola is one of if not the greatest of all time he loves this You've done this to yourselves though I do agree with what you're saying but ultimately if you just shut the door multiple occasions you could have done it we'd be looking now going we've hit some great form we might have beaten you but we could have been six or nine points behind you Isn't it just getting the first one, though?

19:54I mean, City needed Joey Barton, butting people and probably the greatest Premier League moments ever that need to win their first one. You look at that. I mean, when we played it the other week, Everton probably should have won the game or got a draw out of it and it took a goalkeeping mistake to win that one. It just looked like you're just trying to nick a game 1-0 and shut everything out. And I get it because you're trying to get over the line, but how does this go forward? They're probably the greatest Premier League, or certainly one of the greatest, the way they play. And they're rebuilding it to do it again.

20:25How do Arsenal take this forward? Did the shackles come off like Arteta had them when they win something? Or is Mikel just going to be consistent and get over the line? Because I think, you know, when you watch it, though, a couple of years ago, Arsenal were a bit like Man City. I remember sitting here and there was that when you were a nine-point ahead in February and you still thought they'd turn it around and they did, to be fair. but they were a bit more fluent and the players you've got you've got some unbelievable talent but it's almost like Paul was saying they're getting in the wrong areas and just trying to keep the ball and nick something 1-0 where I feel like if they relaxed a bit they'd actually blow teams away Is that coming from the manager all this like passing pens around and stuff like that?

21:05No, I think that they need to somehow in these coming weeks they need to find a way to abolish the nerves I think they need to have a look at each other and say to themselves look, we're in this position because we aren't that good we've trained our whole lives to get to this point these games are the games that you train for and live for four Premier League finals left if anyone is showing any sign of nerves or fear or anything you don't deserve to be at the club in the summer

21:31Gary Neville: because these are the games that you live for you would love to play in these games you two what would you do in Arsenal you two were obviously unbelievably successful if you're in there for the first one we would smell blood I think if a team were sort of faltering I mean the manager would the manager would obviously take them on in press conferences and be sort of quite open in his messaging. Were there any nerves in your dressing room, though? Could you ever sense any? I think there was just natural... I think excessive. Yeah, but there were in the early years, in the first couple of years, when we lost our first title.

22:01Gary Neville: The first year we were in the first team, we lost the title to Blackburn. Yeah. Last game of the season at West Ham away, we couldn't score a goal. And the cup final to us. And the cup final to Everton. So you think about it, people think... I've never forgot it, Paul. People think about the sort of thing, it was all sort of better roles. We lost the double in the first week, in a week in the first title race we were ever in so the year after when we won the double it obviously then relieved the pressure but there was definitely nerves and pressure but we did have senior players that had won it I was just going to say and that is Luke's point they've got some players ok they've got them five or six who haven't done it but they've still got the five or six who have done it they know what it's all about you look at Bernardo Silva in that game the biggest game of the season well Fergus wasn't lighting fires and getting light bulbs out and pickpockets and all this madness was he he's a bit Brent isn't he Arteta if it works but it's not we're at the top of the league but if you win the league it's not because he's got a lightbulb and pens out it's because you're the best team I mean that's the thing I think I think it's silly as well but the team are bought in to Arteta I don't like saying this but they're clearly bought in the nerves are there what does it look like if you don't win the league just explain because the thing that I keep thinking about from an Arsenal perspective is if you win the league obviously it's going to be completely and utter euphoria and it'll be like you'd want to be in that stadium to be just a witness the people will be crying I swear they'll be crying there'll be 60 ,000 people crying what will it be like if you don't win it?

23:28Gary Neville: There'll be 60 ,000 people crying

23:34Gary Neville: I'm not asking what it's going to be like in the stadium but what's it going to be like for Arsenal as a group of players the manager what are the fan base going to do if you don't win it this season? I think that a lot of people will give up on Arteta but not in the sense of I don't think it will be a violent like protests or anything like that if we were not to win it I think that we still will do it maybe I'm deluded but I think we will but I think that it will be a case of Mikel you came in at this club when we were a mid-table side finished eighth twice in a row and you know you spent the money but you got the recruitment right and you've got us to the point where you know we're competing on all four fronts however if we don't win it this year it is evident that he wouldn't be the man that can take us from B to A.

24:17He just took us from C to B and it might be time to move on. That's crazy. I don't think they would sack him, but I think that he would lose a lot of belief and trust if on Monday night at Burnley at home, he's given another speech saying we tried and we'll be here next season. Guaranteed Champions League football. We saw what your boards were like with Wenger. It would be the worst mistake. Even if you don't win it, if you sack him.

24:41Gary Neville: I wouldn't want him gone, but it would be... it would be half-top. I don't think he's saying that he should be sacked. I think what you're saying is there'll be a lot of belief gone in him. Yeah, gone. And I would find that hard to argue against. I love Arteta and I'm with him until the wheels fall off but it would be difficult to say that someone was wrong if they were believing that. Last question on this. Where does the Champions League fit into this? Because honestly, winning your Premier League title for the first time is almost like, it feels like, the sort of, the mountain being climbed.

25:12Gary Neville: Yet you've got this, like, massive mountain that's sort of interspersed in between. Where does that fit in for Arsenal fans? I honestly haven't given it much thought. I thought that on Saturday. It feels to me like the real priority is the Premier League. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think it's just about going for it. You know, in my lifetime, apart from last season, it was very different. I've not witnessed this, you know, relentless amount of games week in, week out. and all of a sudden it's got a Champions League semi-final that we probably should get through we beat this team 4-0 earlier on in the groups in the league phase I don't know I think it's just a sense of go for it we've got the team to do it there's no fear amongst our fans going into the game it's only when we kick off we're absolutely shitting ourselves it's a Champions League semi-final it feels like it's in the way a little bit that's what I mean and it will tackle that out with them them two games will tackle that out That's the only good fucking heart.

26:11That's a fight. Two games of a fight. But this is where geniuses like Pep Guardiola get it right. And the rotation and the minutes played and handling the pressure. Do you remember the first time I came on here, Scolzi, I said, what is going to make or break us? If we can go into these games where we're playing three times a week, come May, can we get it over the line? And this is where we're at now. We need to manage these minutes, manage the nerves. It's not actually a bad game in between your Champions League games, is it? Fulham at home? I know Fulham are right, but it's one of them you could probably get away with just about, couldn't you?

26:47You'd have said that about Bournemouth, wouldn't you? It's the same game in my eyes. Smith or a winner a few weeks ago. Carrigan mentioned it, and I don't understand why they don't do what he suggested. There's such a big difference between Tuesday, Wednesday, Wednesday, Thursday. I don't understand why we're playing on the Wednesday and then on Saturday. Why are we not playing tonight? Because you play on the Tuesdays as well, don't you? yeah I know you've got to play on a Saturday you couldn't play on a Sunday could you

27:12Gary Neville: but this is like year in Wednesday Saturday Tuesday this is like year I mean we honestly if you look back the year we won it we were playing every single three days and it just happens sometimes you get like three games in six days sometimes you get three games in seven it just it is what it is it is what it is you've got you need Timber back you need Timber back you need Timber back and I don't know where he's up to but anyway show of hands Arsenal for the title show of hands in here do you want them or think they will no no Arsenal to no not the want do you think do you think Arsenal will do you think Arsenal will win the title yeah hands up who thinks Arsenal will win the title there's a few Arsenal shirts who thinks City will win the title ooh it's overwhelming yeah look you've got to beat the odds however you said it was 72 yeah I know yeah I know the odds in here the odds in here

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29:33We'll have chat more out of the box than a Dominic Sobber's Live free kick, more panellists than Chelsea have players, and unlike VAR, we know where to draw the line. For fine margins, fun debates, and full-blooded tackles, Football Weekly, listen wherever you get your podcasts and watch the full episodes on YouTube. Make Mother's Day even more special at Whole Foods Market. Kick off brunch or dinner with quality cheese and charcuterie with no synthetic nitrates. Then go see food. There's an abundance on sale at Whole Foods Market, where it's all sustainable while codder responsibly farmed. At the bakery, grab seasonal treats like their strawberry pretzel cream pie, and you can't go wrong with a ready-to-heat quiche Lorraine, deviled eggs, and fresh-cut fruits to go.

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30:19Gary Neville: This segment is brought to you by Microsoft Co-Pilot as part of the partnership with the Premier League. Welcome to the Time Added On quiz where loyal fans take on 10 questions in 60 seconds. With the Premier League companion powered by Microsoft Co-Pilot revealing the correct answers, we'll find out who really knows their club's history in the league. Fans' names will climb the leaderboard and the ultimate winner will take home a special prize at the end of the season. Let's get to it. Let's crack on with today's quiz. Today we will see, drumroll, Flav take on Time Added On quiz. It's a max of 10 questions in 60 seconds With whoever is top of the leaderboard Taking home a special prize Come the end of the season Flav, as our resident Spurs fan You'll be answering questions on your favourite Lilywhites If I mid-question when the time runs out I'll finish that question, take your answer I've started, so I'll finish You can pass with any questions that you don't know Right, question when you're ready Who's doing the 60 seconds, you?

31:15Gary Neville: One, two, three, go Who scored five goals in Spurs' 9-1 win over Wigan in 2009? Who scored the first Premier League goal at Tottenham Hotspur Stadium? Hermanson Who is Spurs' top scorer this season? Richarlison Who has more Premier League assists for Spurs, Dele Alli or Gareth Bale? Dele Alli Yeah Harry Kane, Sonny Omin have won the Golden Boot in the Premier League Who is the other Spurs player to have won the Golden Boot? In the Premier League? Yes Teddy Shrenham Oh, well done True or false, Harry Kane scored on his Premier League debut? False Yeah, six out of six. Who did Spurs beat 3-0 on the opening day of this season?

31:56Gary Neville: I remember. Burnley. Who did Tottenham goalkeeper Paul Robinson score against in the Premier League? Well done. What points-sell did Tottenham achieve in the 16-17 season, their best ever Premier League tally? 87, I don't know. 86. We're first wrong. Who played more times for Tottenham in the Premier League, Gareth Bale or Kyle Walker? Kyle Walker. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow.

32:22Gary Neville: Do you know when I hear the name Paul Robinson, I always think there's a training session, do you remember this one? Your statement about Paul Robinson? No. Paul Robinson, right, he's... No, wait a minute. Right, so basically the ball goes in low to his right and he's a bit slow getting down. And in Scolzi said to him, if it was a meat pie, he'd have got down for it. Oh, I didn't say that. You did say that, absolutely. I did. Absolutely did. I didn't say that. I didn't say that. You didn't say that? No. If it was a meat pie, he'd have got down for it. I always remember what Jonathan Woodgate used to call him.

32:52What? A flying sausage.

32:55Gary Neville: So Flav, brilliant, well done. You scored nine out of ten, and there's more quizzes to come next week. These questions were created with insights from the Premier League Companion, powered by Microsoft Co-Pilot. Give it a try on the Premier League app or website. Just tap the Co-Pilot icon to get started.

33:18Liam

33:19Gary Neville: I've been massively critical of Chelsea in the last week in terms of obviously I'm not surprised that they sacked their manager because I think ultimately people saw that coming out I thought they might wait until the end of the season but they obviously did it pre-FA Cup semi-final where are you at with it let's start with Liam Rossini and the appointment of him and the sacking of him yeah so So it was a big punt to go for Liam Rosinha. It was essentially Bluco and the sporting leadership betting on the coach that they knew best. That was our reporting at The Athletic at the time. And that's the way it panned out.

33:57Unfortunately, he didn't have the credibility with the fans, with the players. And it meant that as soon as results started to turn, that goodwill eroded very, very quickly. And I think things reached a point after the Brighton game where it was the performance really as much as the result, I think, convinced the hierarchy that a change needed to be made immediately. I think they wanted to at least give him to the end of the season to see if there were green shoots, signs that things could get better, but there just weren't any.

34:25Gary Neville: You've obviously watched a lot of the press conferences of Liam and the results have ultimately cost him in the end, but there's a lot of talk obviously also around his language and his communication. Was there, and it came out after, which I didn't particularly like because I'm not a great fan of some of the Chelsea players but this idea that they were mocking him in the changing room about things that he was doing which I just find, I can't stand shit like that it's just horrible so where are you at now? What have you heard of him on the inside about the players in terms of, they obviously turned him because Enzo Fernandes and Kukureya made public statements about him Yeah, so I know there were some things reported elsewhere about supply teachers and mocking whether he was wearing glasses or not that wasn't yeah that wasn't the kind of stuff that we'd heard but it was just a general lack of belief in what he was asking them to do a lack of authority I think it started as a group of players within the dressing room and over time it became more of a consensus and even the players that were more inclined to give him a chance where did it originate from which are you talking are you talking about Fernandes and Kukure are you talking about that group of players well I think you're looking at certain senior players I think the Spanish speaking players were particularly close to Enzo Maresca.

35:37That's clear. Mark Kukurea, when he did an interview with The Athletic during the March International break, made a point of saying nice things about Rosinha too. So I don't think it was a sense that they were against him from the start. I think it was that they were really affected by Maresca's departure and they made that public in a way that was probably quite destabilising, I think, for Chelsea's season as well. But ultimately, I think Rosinha kind of lost credibility on his own terms really with day-to-day training, the way he was communicating in press conferences, as you say, he was speaking to the fans at large, and I think they didn't really believe in him either.

36:17He heard a lot of that at the Amex, and I think things had just reached a breaking point.

36:22Gary Neville: How do the ownership get the trust, respect of the fans back? It's a long road, I think. When you look at the number of mistakes that they've made, and the fact that this is the fourth season of Blueco ownership now and it's likely to be the third season that ends without Champions League football, this is a big drop in standards from what a lot of fans were used to in the Abramovich era. There's big questions about this strategy with the recruitment. There's big questions about who they're picking to be the head coach. I mean, three of their four hires had never coached a Champions League game before they got the Chelsea job, whereas Abramovich three times hired coaches that won the Champions League before they got to the club.

37:05So I think we saw in the statement where they confirmed Rosinha was leaving, the word self-reflection we used, which is not something we've seen really from Bluco in their actions, but also in their words recently. And I think that's maybe something that is a small bit of encouragement for fans that are questioning the direction of the club, the idea that there might be a change in strategy. They're talking about maybe more proven quality in the squad. you can see with some of the names they're looking at for the coach they're looking at more proven Premier League experience maybe a record of success elsewhere words are one thing, actions are another so we'll see how it pans out this summer

37:43Gary Neville: I was thinking about Chelsea they're actually just providing the ownership of proving to be a problem for Chelsea but I suspect they're also causing a problem generally for other clubs Tottenham has reportedly been on the market for a number of years now but just sort of like silently off market. You think about what they paid for Chelsea. I bet there are a few clubs, obviously people will think now they overpaid. They spent an absolute fortune on the squad. Do you think they stay as long-term Chelsea owners and what does self-reflection look like? Is that just them bringing in more experience, basically, as you've said, in the dressing room and as a coach?

38:19It's been really difficult to gauge exactly what their long-term play is. Do they communicate to the press? Do they brief off the record? Well, yeah, I mean, there's communication. Yeah, and they're keen... They all do, don't they? Yeah, and they're keen to, I think, try to communicate the vision, the strategy they have been for the last four years. That hasn't always gone down well with fans. I think sometimes they view that quite cynically. And I think there's probably been quite a recognition in the last couple of months from ownership level that they need to maybe talk a little bit more publicly, even if it's not directly to fans like Bedadig Bali in the last couple of weeks spoke at a business conference.

38:59Fans would much rather he's talking directly to them, but at least he was explaining on the record what they're trying to do. But yeah, I mean, they've always insisted they're committed to the club for a long term. How long is long? Maybe like 10 years or something. But you know the way private equity works. They get in. The idea is to grow the value of the club and realise a profit when they sell. The problem is they bought the club for a lot of money, more than I think a lot of people thought that it was necessarily worth, although there was a lot of interest at that price in 2022. And they've put almost as much in as they paid for it.

39:37But they've put a lot of debt on it as well. They have. I mean, we've got colleagues at The Athletic that are more into the accounts than I am, but it seems like the debt is currently sitting sort of above the club in like a holding company, which is a bit different to what it was. It's a couple more steps removed to the way it was under Abramovich, but of course Abramovich was just one guy who always made it clear that he was never going to call in those loans to the club. So it does hang a bit like a sort of Damocles above them until there's a bit more trust in the ownership.

40:11Gary Neville: Do you have any faith, Scolzi, in the Chelsea... I know you don't like the word project, I don't particularly like it. Do you have it in the project that they're trying to build in terms of what they're trying to do? The eight-year contracts, the young players... I don't see what they're trying to do. develop young players is that a way of doing it? I don't know the owners have to of course you have to take owners will take blame for a lot of of course to Willem other than the owners from anybody else in and around football thought Liam would have been the right person for Chelsea it was just crazy for me now once you make that decision what's Liam going to do?

40:49he's not going to say no to a Chelsea job is he from where he was but once the owners make that decision then they have to factor in that there's going to be times when it's not going that well now losing five Premier League games and not scoring a goal is a big problem and you're not going to survive that I don't think well you're not and he hasn't

41:13Gary Neville: Liam being the wrong choice because of the fact of just not having the experience because that links into the Michael Carrick conversation before he gets appointed and he's done exactly the opposite he's gone on a great run with similar experiences. I mean, obviously Liam was in Strasbourg, Michael was at Middlesbrough, but there is a similarity in experience. I would say maybe Liam's got more coaching experience. Yeah, he probably has. But I think what United have squad-wise is a little bit more experience as well than what Chelsea have. And also Michael Carrick had more cachet with the club, with the dressing room.

41:45He could walk in and have respect immediately, whereas I think that was always going to be more of a challenge for Rosinia. And the fact that he was seen as being so close to Bluco, he knew Paul Wynstamney from his time at Brighton, he knew Laurence Stewart from his time at Hull City, so he goes back with the sporting leadership years. And I think given the way Bluco and the sporting leadership team are seen at Chelsea by most of the fans, that was always going to be more of a negative for him and something he had to overcome than something that was going to help him. The thing with Liam is it all felt like a bit of an act with him, with his press conference and stuff.

42:19He's trying to act like a big manager. I don't think that was an act. I do. It felt like if I was the Man United manager, I'd be like, oh, a manager would say this. Yeah, I felt like he was trying to act like a big manager. Whereas people like Pep and Ancelotti, they don't. They are, that's what they are. And I think he's trying to act a little bit like that. He just didn't have the credibility to do it. We're talking about overcoming respect and commanding respect, but I'm not being funny. You're professional footballers. You get paid a tonne of money. you represent a club you should automatically respect your manager why are they behaving like prima donnas like that that is disgraceful I'm not a Chelsea fan but I would be fuming I don't care it doesn't matter who your manager is you turn up on the pitch don't go around mocking your manager because you don't think he's got aura or whatever it is people are talking about that's your manager that's your job you have a privilege to step on that pitch perform

43:16Gary Neville: I wish you were a Valencia fan I need a bit more of that over there I actually saw I've stayed clear of the actual similarities because obviously he's got far greater coaching experience than I have but I did see some similarities of you know press conferences losing no it's just something it sounds crazy but he had games every three days and he had press conferences you have press conferences six times a week and everyone kept saying this guy talks too much he's got no choice it's an absolute commitment Did they say that about you? Scoles, I had games every three days. I think I told you through the program, literally I had to do a pre-match and post-match press conference.

43:54Gary Neville: You're doing six press conferences a week and you can't get away from it. It's horrible. And I remember saying to the press officer, I don't mind doing the press, I'm happy to do it, but is there any way of me putting my assistant out there? Phil. Or somebody out there. Someone else. I didn't take a bit of shit. Sometimes you see, I don't know, sometimes you see... What did the press think of you over there? Do you know? Because I'm pretty sure Lee doesn't have a good idea what people think about him. No, I don't think they're respecting me at all for the football side of it and the coach. They kept saying to me, what's your idea?

44:23Gary Neville: And I didn't really get it until I left. Rapido, rapido. Concentration. No, they kept saying to me, what's your idea? What's your idea, Neville? What's your idea? And I didn't understand it. Do you know people mock you? Your record wasn't that bad, was it? No, it wasn't. Yeah, but my point is, yeah, look, at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. But I lost too many games. The idea bit is around what's your football idea in Spain very differently they want an idea of how you play football what you believe in and I never got that from a point of view of coaching in the sense that sometimes you play counter-attack sometimes you try and play possession if you're playing against a team that's big you might play a bit more physically this adaptation of what will be how a team plays is what I felt we were I didn't feel like you have to have this specific idea now I got it a little bit to be fair the players do want an idea from a manager they do want an idea from a coach they do they want to know exactly what it is you want from them and they want it to be prescriptive.

45:18Gary Neville: It's gone back in the day where you might say, OK, we're going to play counter-attack today, so sit back and defend more deep and then basically spring on it. I do think players want adaptability. It's coming back a little bit now, actually, I think. I swear players are very different. I think players now, whereas we weren't that bothered, we knew what we were going to do, but I think players now, they almost need to know where they've got to be on the pitch every two minutes of the game. I was watching Cairn and Dewsbury Hall on Monday Night Football last night and they were talking about the Arsenal set-pieces against Newcastle and Cara was going through it with him.

45:50Gary Neville: And it was a case of who do you blame for that? And to be fair, Kinnanjews-Bihol said, you know, we've got a set-piece coach who tells us exactly what to do and that's what we do. But obviously Arsenal were probing with that short corner and did brilliantly for it, by the way. And they just didn't adapt to it. I think he was talking about, was it Willock that maybe just, he was like this to the bench. He did this three or four times. If you'd seen it last night, Cara's analysis on it, he's like, kept doing this to the bench, Willock. What do I do here? I'm going out with Erdegaard. but Eze's free that's what I'm saying players especially these they don't really think for themselves everything's an instruction on our set pieces in the early days when I was at United Schmeichel would walk out and he'd have a look around and he'd see if anybody was sort of free if something wasn't right and he would direct someone to go and do something the goalkeeper took a bit of responsibility for that and then as you get older you start to do it yourself a little bit but Schmeichel definitely took responsibility on corners because he knew full well he didn't want to concede a goal he hated it but I'm just trying to think about A player now wants that instruction from a coach.

46:48I see that with loads of goals, though, where players, instead of just going and dealing with the danger, then asking who should have picked them up, they just leave people and say, it's not my man. And then there's arguments taking place. And I think you're right. I think it's, you tell me exactly what I've got to do, then I'm accountable for just doing what I've got to do. I think Paul's right. There's no one going, I need to see that bit of danger, or I just need to mark him because he's free. It happens so often. It's why you don't have as many mavericks anymore or people that just want to solve problems themselves and deal with issues that arise.

47:18Everyone's just robotic and boring. Well, there was a classic example of this at Chelsea under Rosinha where the goal they conceded against Newcastle at Stamford Bridge. And if you remember the Anthony Gordon tap-in a few weeks ago. And it was essentially because Rosinha had a different plan marking-wise depending on which side of the pitch the ball was. And it all fell apart because of where Tino Liveramento got the ball. Just two passes through the middle of the pitch and it ends up Anthony Gordon running the ball into the net because the plan fell apart and there was no improvisation when the plan failed.

47:51Gary Neville: But they are the youngest team and they do, to be fair, I've called them a number of times this season, they're like an academy team sometimes. Sometimes you can watch them and think, Jesus, they're breathtaking. And other times you can watch them and think they're like an under-18s team, so naive it's untrue. But what manager do they bring in to solve this? I mean, they're going to have to bring in an experienced manager. Young players can't have young managers and then young sporting directors, then young ownership. You've got to have some experience somewhere. Who comes in to deal with this?

48:14Gary Neville: Who's the favourite in your mind? Well, we don't know who the front runner is. I think it's too early in the process to say that. I think as a journalist, the one I would quite like to cover would be Cesc Fabregas. I think he fits the bill of like a bright young rising coach. He's also got a history with Chelsea. The fans love him, which I think would really work in his favour compared to previous Blueco hires. He's young again though now. Yeah, but he's also got, I think, the personality to deal with the media every few days, to really be the face of a club. He looks like he'd be comfortable in that environment.

48:47He's done really well where he is. The question with him, and it's not just with him though, is does he have better options?

48:53Gary Neville: Yeah, why would you? I don't know. I mean, see why he would. Obviously, there'd be a big contract. He'd have some protections in there, I'm sure, if he came around, if he was sacked early and that sort of stuff. But I think you'd want some serious protections if you assess Fabregas against what was going to happen in terms of the players that you were going to bring in. The fact that if you did sack me, it would have to be a horrific consequence, I think, to give up what he's got currently. Iri Ola was one that was mentioned this morning. Yeah, and again, he's kind of the hot name in the Premier League right now.

49:22I think he's timed being a free agent really, really nicely because he's going to have different offers and different clubs pitching him. but it may well have to be Chelsea having to sell themselves a bit more than...

49:33Gary Neville: Eddie Howe was mentioned, apparently. Could be. We'll see what happens at Newcastle. Gary, I just wanted to ask, in relation to you at Valencia and Rosinha, I'd be interested to know if you think Rosinha went through the same thing that you did. Did you ever have an epiphany where you were like, I'm out of my depth here. Oh, I was going to say, to be fair... I thought you were going to say everything. I was going to say to be fair I nearly said it before when you were talking about Atletico Madrid the most humbling like out of depth experience I've ever had we played Atletico Madrid at the Mestaya we were 0-0 up until 60 minutes but I knew we'd lost the game it was like I felt like I was being suffocated the aggression of Madrid and the bench was horrible to the point where at the end of the game I went over to shake hands with Simeone he walked straight past me he just ignored me now I don't know whether that comes from a point of view of cultural in the sense of already just thinking, you shouldn't even be here, you know what I mean?

50:30Gary Neville: There was almost like a dismissive element to him in terms of how he was to me. Did Enrique do the same as well at last? Enrique did the same at Barcelona, walked straight past me, yeah. And these managers, to be fair, Valverde beat me horribly for Bilbao and I felt he was like a coach in Masters, but he spoke to me at length. He was a different type of guy, Valverde, but I thought he was like, his coaching was unbelievable. But there were moments where I felt out there that I thought I should definitely not be on this touchline. I am nowhere near this. And I've said this publicly, and to be fair, self-reflection.

51:00Gary Neville: But, you know, the Simeone one, they beat us 2-0, and I just remember thinking, this is horrible. It's almost like they were just grinding us and they knew at one point, you know, I think they scored after 60 minutes, something like that, and they scored maybe 15 minutes later to get the second, and it was brutal. The way in which they pressed us, the way in which they just were all over us, the aggression, the physicality, the bench being up for every decision, every referee, the fourth official, they're just, like an aggressive machine and I just thought this is just not no we're not I'm not ready for this this is not me the scene you went through that I think there'll definitely be moments where he'll have felt massively uncomfortable he'll have woke up in the morning thinking this is making me ill this is making me feel unwell because to be fair one thing you can never take away from whether it be Liam or the care you know I always say this about football players actually you know which player wakes up in the morning and thinks right I want to lose today I don't want to care because I want to get hammered.

51:54Gary Neville: Why would you want that? So the football players don't actually want that hammer in. They don't want the sort of criticism. Neither do managers. He will have felt, I think, yeah, out of his depth. In some ways, I think sort of putting him out of his misery earlier and not letting the four weeks maybe to the end of the season continue, which it would have been a batter, particularly if they got beat by Leeds on Sunday. It's probably kinder to him in some ways on reflection. I was a bit surprised they didn't stick with him. But on the other hand, kind at him just to have him away from it and let him recover and go and get another job for the start of next season where do you think he goes from I was thinking about he's not taught himself out of something has he did no I'd imagine a championship club or and that's the problem you're talking probably now a championship club or a club abroad I think we'd take him back on I think they would take him back on and think of him as being more experienced off the back of this yeah but yeah I was out of my depth and publicly said it It was just too much.

52:51Gary Neville: And I had young coaches on my bench with me and should have had really, I should have took with me a really experienced, you know, mid-50s, maybe 60-year-old Spanish-speaking coach who could handle everything on the grass, do the training side, almost liaise with the players, let them do the, because I was doing the team talks to the players, but in English, and I had a translator next to me. So it's like now you're having everything translated, it's double, so if it's two minutes of me speaking, now it's four minutes while they translate, and it's, oh, it was bad. And I look back, it just did not handle that well.

53:23Gary Neville: I was with Maurizio Potatino last week. He had someone do his team talks for him in the early times at Southampton. You didn't fancy learning Spanish? Oh, I did, but I was basically doing four lessons a week, but I was only there for three months. Two words. I was only there three months. No, no, I did my last two team talks in Spanish. Did you really? Broken Spanish, yeah. Yeah, but it was, I was learning four times a week. I took all my family over. I did four lessons a week early in the morning. I literally embedded as much as I could but I didn't win football matches and you can't not win football matches at a big club which is what has happened to Liam yeah the losing of the football matches in the end is what kills you people might disrespect you because he was winning wasn't it at the beginning he was sort of like people sort of hearing his words but thinking he's winning and some of his football's not right there were some games Aston Villa away he thought fucking hell he's not going yeah that was their last kind of really good performance but if you remember Graham Potter had quite a good start as well because I think like Rosinia He came into quite a packed schedule, but there maybe wasn't that much time to train.

54:20There must be a foreign manager, Chelsea. I'm not sure. Do you seem like English ones? Have any English ones worked? I'm trying to think. They haven't had many. I think Frank Lampard did pretty well in his first season, and then they spent all that money and the job changed. It does feel like a club that needs a foreign manager, doesn't it? It might sound strange, but... I think it probably needs a big personality, someone with a bit of authority, and maybe part of this self-reflection that the hierarchy at Chelsea have to do is, can we be comfortable with someone with that authority, with that status in the game?

54:53Because they had that. I'll come and speak Spanish to him, if you want.

54:57Gary Neville: I do think you're right. It's very hard. It sounds mad, this, for an English manager to succeed now in the Premier League. I mean, when was the last time, I mean, Howard Wilkinson won it, I know, for Leeds before the Premier League started. Has an English manager ever won the Premier League? No, no. No. so that's what you'd have to say for an English manager to succeed and Eddie Howe was probably the one in the recent times Harry Redknapp obviously had success to a level Frank Lampard maybe a little bit but there's very few English managers have succeeded Would they not go back for Frank? It's interesting I think he's certainly raised his stock with what he's done at Coventry he's done an excellent job this season that caretaker stint a couple of years ago leaves things in quite a funny place he was in the he was in the box with Badadig Bali recently so that relationship seems to still be okay and when he was asked about it he was very kind of diplomatic the ways you'd expect Frank to be I think in that sort of situation it would probably always have an attraction for him only he knows how he feels about working for these owners now

56:05Gary Neville: Flav can Tottenham remain as one of the six clubs never to have been relegated from the Premier League Yeah, absolutely, of course we can. How does that look? It looks like we go to Villa Park and win. It looks like we beat Leeds at home and we beat Everton at home. And that Chelsea game is going to be a nightmare. Because what more motivation do they need to beat Spurs than potentially relegate us? Ten years on from Battle of the Bridge. Do you think the Chelsea players have got that understanding of this spite? They'll be able to feel it in the stadium, I think. They'll respond from what's happening.

56:46It's not like when Fabregas was there and that Chelsea side 10 years ago, that was fully understanding of what it would mean for the Chelsea fans to do that to us. But I think they'll just be able to feel the energy. So we need to do our work outside of that game because that's going to be the trickiest. I'm hoping that Villa will be preoccupied by the massive game, the Europa League semi-final against Forest, which is not going to be easy for them. They're probably going to qualify for Champions League anyway, through league. So that's what I'm thinking. That's where I'm at. You're talking about winning three out of five games there, aren't you?

57:20You've won one since, what, December? Yeah, last week. We won last week. Since December, though, is it? Well, yes. You're talking about winning the next five? No, I mean, I just think, you know, De Zorbi's had three games and we got four points out of those three games. Before that, we were dead and buried. There's massive reasons why we're in this situation and I could go on all day about them, but the fact that we've had like five ACLs in 18 months when the average is 0.25 to 0.6 per club in a season. How do you know that? What is wrong with you? Well, when your club is burning and falling apart around your ears, you need to figure out why it might be going wrong.

57:59But on top of that, you've got to look about what's going on behind the scenes as well. As much as it was time for Daniel Levy to leave, it wasn't about pushing him in the way we did, because you leave a massive vacuum. This is a guy who was institutional at Tottenham, right? He was Tottenham-Artsburg for a long time, in the same way that Ferguson was at United and Abramovich was at Chelsea. Levy was that guy. He had to move, but he had to be a part of a transition. And I don't think the Lewis family fought it through

58:26Gary Neville: by just removing him from the club straight away. No, I interviewed him last summer. I remember, yeah. I went to see him and there's no doubt he was planning for next season. There's no way he was expecting this to come. And I think you're right. I think if you're going to transition into somebody who's been there with such an unbelievable influence, you have to do that over 12 months and make sure that everybody's sort of... You can't just do it on the spot like that. It's just madness. No, he was kind of treated like a manager would be if the team wasn't performing. The Lewis family have come in and gone, I don't know what was happening behind the scenes, but have gone, right, you're out.

59:00You're out because, okay, because Ben Katesham's here. He's a CEO.

59:03Gary Neville: He's operated at that level at Arsenal for five or six years. Is he struggling? Because, I mean, he doesn't get much mention, but he was supposed to be the guy that was the sort of, like, brilliant at Arsenal. Yeah. He's come in, but he doesn't get much of a mention. When he, I mean, the Spurs fan base have an issue with him and the way they think about him. He doesn't seem to be covered in the press, but there's definitely a conversation amongst the fan base. I think, when he came, they did a joint interview. Levy and Venkatesham sat together, talked about red wine and all kinds of bollocks. And then a few weeks later, Levy was gone and Venkatesham was like, oh, well, I'm running the football club now, am I?

59:39That's what it feels like. Then you've got this situation with a dual sporting director in role with Paratichi and Lange. Which big clubs have two sporting directors at a football club? Chelsea. Do they? And that's going well. That's going well, right. So the fact is you've got two decision makers. Because one, Parathenshi might be, right, he's about as close to probably the kind of sporting director of football that you want. And you've got Langer, who has effectively been, he's done well at recruiting young players, but he doesn't have the charisma to lead a cultural influence at a football club that Spurs need.

1:00:15There's no culture at the club.

1:00:17Gary Neville: Could go into the championship, and to be fair, I said no. No, no, I'm serious, because to be fair, look, I accept that it would be something that is, you know, a really bad thing for the club to happen, but for the fans, you're a fan of Tottenham. Right away. You're a fan of Tottenham to the day that you're not here anymore. Of course. Facts, right? Yeah. Is it not going to be the most incredible experience that you somehow think is the biggest low? I'm imagining it as like, to be fair, I just remember my dad talking about United going down in the 70s and them saying that it was one of the most incredible atmospheres every single week.

1:00:53Gary Neville: City have been in that dark place where they probably now with fondness look back upon that moment of being in League One. All the little blokes tell me. You talk to them a huge club. They'll be back in the Premier League in a jot, whether it's two years, one year, three years. You'll always be back in the Premier League. You're a massive club. Is this not one of the greatest moments in your history from a point of view of sort of telling the story? Think about Leeds United though. Leeds United took 20 years to get back. Yeah. That could happen. Cheers. Thanks. Absolutely not, Gary, no. Amazing.

1:01:24Gary Neville: You've not got part of your thinking that actually this could be one of the most sort of great social experiences for Tottenham fans we've ever had. I'm sure it would be a laugh for every... You've got a impression into this. Laf, you said to me a couple of years ago, Mike, do Everton goods a gold out of it? Did I say that? Is it still the same? Did I say that? That's what you said. Can I just apologise? Honestly, you could have said to me, would you rather, like in December, would you rather Arsenal win the league or Tottenham get relegated? And I'd say, well, yeah, I'd take a relegation if it meant stopping them.

1:01:53Now when you're in it, the reality of this is horrible. I've not enjoyed watching my team play football for months. If West Ham will beat Arsenal and confirm both, you know, that's going to happen in one day. Yeah, if West Ham beat Arsenal and we get relegated and Arsenal don't win the league in the same day.

1:02:11Gary Neville: I might take that. You're still considering Arsenal winning a league being as bad as Tottenham going down? It's about the same. About the same, yeah. It's about the same. But that's when you know you're a little bit fucked, don't you? When your mind's so bitter and twisted to a point whereby... No, no, no. This is where this comes from, right? Everybody, the last 24 months, has woken up to what Arsenal are like as a fan base and Arsenal fans generally. Everyone hates them. No, we've known for a long time. You might have known a little bit longer. I've had 44 years of that. So now everybody's woken up to what Arsenal are like.

1:02:48What do you mean what Arsenal are like?

1:02:49Gary Neville: You were celebrating Man City goals at your stadium a couple of years ago. They weren't in the problem with that. I was aware they were not doing that. That's just a rivalry, though. I don't think there's a problem with Arsenal. I mean, people do think there is a problem with Arsenal. What is the problem with Arsenal fans? Everything. I just hate all big six, to be fair. I don't discriminate. I hate all. The problem with Arsenal fans is Arsenal are at the core of social media. And we live in a world now where people get 99 % of their opinions. Matt, I grew up... You booed your team off in the Emirates.

1:03:21Nothing to do with social media. You were top of the league. Matt, I grew up... That's mental. People were hating on more. Matt, I grew up in Holloway in North London, right? I was way before Twitter even existed. I know exactly what you lot are like. Exactly what you like. Which is what? Well, I don't want to say on this show. You've got to... But immensely annoying and irritating.

1:03:39Gary Neville: But Flav, tell us what you think Arsenal fans are like. They're unbearable. And you've got to remember that this is not just what they're like generally, but it's like I grew up when I went to Highbury Grove School, which is a school down the road from where Highbury used to play the football, surrounded by them at a time where they were winning trophies at a canter. And just growing up around them made me a very bitter and angry person. about when it comes to Arsenal. So when you say, would you rather Spurs get well-eared or Arsenal win the league? It is similar, because I hate Arsenal as much as I love Tottenham.

1:04:18That's embarrassing, and that's the reason you're in the position. No, no, no. I hate that's a big part of football. That's the crisis part of football. You hate your rivals as much as you love Tottenham. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nothing wrong with that, love. It pops together. If you love your club that much, you end up having that rivalry. That's football.

1:04:33Gary Neville: I would have said growing up, I hated Liverpool as much I love United we were crap though so it was a bit different wasn't it what's that we were crap when you were growing up I never to be fair considered City as some sort of a threat actually as I was leaving the club I started to feel them sort of like breathing on our sort of breathing down our necks I thought oh they're getting closer semi-finals getting closer in the leagues like it's getting dangerous and I left and then I remember you saying that to me when he was away somewhere in Qatar I think on a training camp I always remember you saying City are coming they're fucking coming them lot It sounds crazy, but when they first signed Robinho, I thought it was like a farce or a joke project.

1:05:10Gary Neville: And then when they started to sort of... I think when they took Carlos off us... Because we hated him for it, but we knew he was a good player. Welcome to Manchester. We knew he was a good player. What was it like in the dressing room? Did you try and get in his ear or Fergie's ear? I couldn't speak to Carlos, really. You should have spoke Spanish to him. You couldn't have said it. The fans were singing Fergie's signing. We were all singing Fergie's signing. When he mopped towards the end of the season, I think he made his mind up. I think he probably fell out with a couple of players. When you say he couldn't speak to him, did he just...

1:05:40He didn't speak to anybody or there was no relationship?

1:05:43Gary Neville: Carlos? His English wasn't good, was it? His English wasn't good. So when it was going well, Carlos wouldn't speak to too many people. He didn't change too much from when he was going well to him leaving. I don't think he played that many games in the last few weeks, did he? I just remember him seeing... He was never injured either. I remember him seeing on the bench. He had a problem with a player playing in front of him. Maybe tough. Possibly. Carlos was someone he couldn't understand it Carlos played football like he was in the street in Argentina as a kid so he just literally ran for everything he was brilliant actually I actually think when him and Rooney and Ronaldo played together honestly I've never seen anything like that but he thought every week every day in training he was working his bollocks off and then this other lad was playing he didn't have that same enthusiasm it was just different yeah it was just different so I don't think Carlos got his head around I think he made his mind up anyway Do you prefer playing with Berbatov or Tevi?

1:06:36Gary Neville: I mean, I love Berbatov, but to be fair for me, I always like players that, to be fair, worked and pressed. So for me, we've had this conversation about Ruud van Nistelrooy being up front from Manchester United. Skoll thinks Ruud van Nistelrooy is the greatest striker Man United have ever had. And I think he's the best finisher I've ever seen in my life. And I've spoken to Ruud about this, but when Ruud played, he had to play on his own. Roode didn't really play with a partner ever, so Scholes, he played off him. Or someone always had to play as subservient to him. Whereas we always, I felt, played best when we had two up front, whether it be Hughes and Cantona, whether it be York and Cole, whether it be Solskjaer-Sheringham, Tevez, Rooney.

1:07:16Gary Neville: I always felt we were Saha Rooney when we won the league back in 2006. Manchester United, it's a fact, under Stralix Ferguson won titles when we played two up front more, and we played better when we played two up front more. When we went to one up front with Roode in Europe for about three, four years, I just felt we sort of lost our, boom, you know, that aggression in our sort of counter-attacking. And it's just something I spoke to you about quite a lot. That was more because of the midfield, it wasn't to stop us being that way. It was because we were getting done in midfield all the time. We were.

1:07:43Gary Neville: So we had to bring an extra body in. But we lost our options going forward again a little bit. Well, you do, you've got to lose something, you will lose something. We ended up all that, and when we went to one up front, we ended up getting to more finals, actually. Probably didn't win them. That was when we were sort of like, that was when we were sort of, we were playing 4-4-2, at the weekends and then in Europe he'd literally put Ronaldo up front on his own he'd put Jason Park and Rooney White to basically be like sort of workhorses so he recognised he almost found a solution for it doing it that way but you're having to compensate for either Ronaldo up front or a Roode up front or a Berbatov up front because you lost the pay when you had Rooney and Tevez up front I mean oh my god that is as good as it gets I think for me and Rooney to be free he's the best centre forward United I've ever had by a mile I don't think it's even close and that's all the great centre forwards that I think are unbelievable I don't think it's even close because every one of those centre forwards that played for United Rooney could do everything that they could do dribble, pass, head, tackle, run everything playing other positions and playing every other position on the pitch being best midfield player I just think he was unbelievable so yeah that's coming back to Tottenham though we've had a break Flav I think you're doing it Ellie how do you see this I thought Friday night by the way I thought I'm thinking you're done you're out of it yeah safe I'm thinking that performance just I think you helped by Sunderland the first 20 minutes playing out from the back but you just thought that's it Forest what a win just before the sort of semi-finals and then do you feel a little bit like you've been pulled back in a little bit on the Saturday kind of I think it's just down to us it doesn't matter what anyone around us does it's what we need to do and I think what's most promising isn't, results are great obviously, but at this point, and I'm looking towards Europa League, that is what matters to me the most, is we've turned the corner in our performance.

1:09:37We played phenomenally and I think Vitor Pereira's cracked it. I think he's figured it out sort of by accident against Burnley, but he saw how good it was and he kept it for the Sunderland game. By moving Gibbs-White into more of that left-sided position and having Jesus and Wood we've been phenomenal nine goals in two games we were fighting to score goals we couldn't finish like if our lives depended on it and suddenly we've made that move of Gibbs over to the left and everyone is playing better and I think I felt really bad for Jesus because he's had a lot of pressure on him this whole season he's played pretty much every game in Europa League and the league and that's a huge huge yeah he's got huge boots to fill with Chris Wood being as phenomenal is with the injury.

1:10:22And when you watch Jesus in the Premier League, you can see that he needed someone else there. He needed to be playing with somebody. He needed to be able to offload it to somebody. You could see that he was holding up the ball well when he wasn't diving. And it needed someone else around him. And then when you have someone like Chris Wood with that phenomenal movement in and around the box, it just works so, so well. And I think that, for me, is what's more, obviously, results are really important right now, but that's what gets Forest fans excited is we think we found a system without Nuno, with everything that's gone on all the dramas and all the injuries we found a system that works and we look great we look unbeatable at the minute

1:11:02Gary Neville: Do you think the only risk for you is the actual semi-finals? That you get caught up in this massive sort of what would be emotional rollercoaster of these two games? I don't think we're taking it as seriously when you look at the team selections for the Europa League even in all the knockout stages I've been quite frustrated that we haven't necessarily started our best 11 every time. Will he change that though for this now? He better. I hope so. I think he will. But I don't think he's necessarily going to go with the exact same system. I don't think he is. I think he is looking at that Premier League.

1:11:36I think that's what he's been told. But for me, as a Forest fan, who knows next time we're going to be in Europe. I've never seen us in Europe. It's an absolute dream come true. Premier League is just a league. Who cares? Do you know what I mean? Well, yeah, you would do. But for me, you can't put a price on memories. And people keep talking about, oh, but what if you get relegated? Firstly, it's not mutually exclusive. Just because you start your starting XI in the Europa League doesn't mean you're guaranteed to win the next Premier League game. And in fact, I think the exact opposite. I think if you put in good performances in the Europa League, you carry that momentum into the league.

1:12:14Mario Nacis would be desperate for Champions League football. I hope so that's what I thought though he won't lose the money from the Premier League though do you think he would because it's about status isn't it with him it's about 40 points Forrest don't go down I don't think Forrest

1:12:26Gary Neville: will go down but I just think obviously on Friday night I think everyone thinks you're safe but then with Tottenham and West Ham winning you're back where you started that's the only thing I suppose well we're back where we started but we've won less game and with the momentum that was a tough game Shondle underway tricky game on paper I just think tough place to go but if you thought If you thought Forest were in a relegation scrap pre-Friday, but then you thought they were out of it post-Friday, and then all of a sudden you're back in the same position, you must think they're still in it a little bit.

1:12:52Gary Neville: You'd expect then Spurs to win. Who have we got left? You've got Chelsea, we've got... I should know, I'm going to them all. United. I'll tell you who you've got. United, Bournemouth. You've got Chelsea away, Newcastle at home, United away and Bournemouth at home, and I don't think that's easy. That's horrible, especially when you know our record with those teams. Good loser, don't you? Nor are they at games. No, but I'm putting also, I'm just going to give you your games. Chelsea away, Villa in the Europa League, Newcastle at home, United away. You've then got a potential Europa League final and then you've got Bournemouth.

1:13:27So you have got, obviously, the Europa League game this Thursday,

1:13:32Gary Neville: then you've got Chelsea away. If you're to lose that and the other two were to win, I do think you have got a little bit of something to do because Newcastle were OK last weekend against Arsenal. United at Old Trafford is not going to be easy. You know what I mean? But it's about us, isn't it? I think for me, any team can beat any team in the league. We know that, we've seen it. At the end of the day, if we play how we played against Sunderland, how we played against that second half against Burnley, we're fine. But it's can we carry on that momentum? Was this, I don't think it is, but was this just a couple of good games?

1:14:06Do we lose against Villa and then we lose that momentum and confidence drops? Because what we've massively lacked this season, minus all the things we already know about, four managers and all the politics and stuff, what we've massively lacked this season is confidence. I mean, Amari Hutchinson, he's a young player, coming into what is a very turbulent team, very turbulent side at the moment, and he's not been able to perform. And we've had that with all our players, everyone we've brought in, and even the ones that were already here. What we need is Morgan Gibbs-White. and that's who he's come through.

1:14:36That mentality, that attitude, that leadership that he brought, he dragged us through that Burnley game in that second half. He was phenomenal, not just for his hat trick, he was everywhere. And I think that's the difference. He is such a leader, keeping that morale, keeping that mentality, keeping that confidence, that's what matters more. So I want to go into this game. It's huge for me. I never thought I'd see it. I want to give everything. and even if we lose, if we can go, we've fought, we've given everything, we can go into that game against Chelsea with confidence, with pride.

1:15:09Gary Neville: Yeah, I mean, look, it'd be nice to watch you live again if you can put a word in for me then. You still bet? You still not allowed back? Yeah, I'm not allowed in. What would happen if you went in? No, no. You can't. You'd get dragged out your team on Twitter and just be getting dragged out. Are you still upset with me in Nottingham? Are you still... Yeah. Thanks for that. Sorry. Okay, so... Marriott did Gibbs White a favour, don't you? Yeah, he did. This is your moment now. At the time. He's the worst mistake ever. And actually, he's right. Can you just... Sorry, Mr Maranac. Can you let me back in?

1:15:42Gary Neville: Say it now. I haven't done the Nottingham Forest game. I haven't done the Nottingham Forest game for... What did you actually say? I remember. Eh? Sorry. Go on. You compared him to Mafia Cartel after that tweet. Oh, no, that was the first time I got let back in. The second time I... When Maranakis came on the pitch. Yeah, he came on the pitch. And I said that if I was an employee of that club, I think Nuno Shlandi's noticing because the reality is it's written on the wall when someone does... I was right, though. Yeah, 100%.

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1:17:51Gary Neville: Right, Adam, where we are? Obviously, were you all Trafford last night? Yeah. Yeah, so I mean, I actually thought last night, I don't want to ask you, Scoles, in a minute as well, I actually, I was surprised at half-time when he went to the five at the back, but after about five minutes, I actually thought, he's got this right. Did you think the same thing? Yeah, it was a good switch. It was a weird one because I thought it was almost, I thought it was a punishment for Ahmed's poor performance in the first half because I don't think he's been particularly good recently, but it was a good tactical tweak and Brentford kind of, we kind of notified the threats that they had, but it was an important win, especially after the performance against Leeds at Old Trafford.

1:18:24I thought, a game against Leeds, you don't go into it with that kind of, just so flat and just, we didn't really have any fight in us in that game and it was really disappointing. And then the performance against Brentford a lot better. I think Keith Andrews has been immense there. And so it was a difficult game. And if they win, they kind of go right up into sixth and it kind of still keeps other people fighting for the Champions League. So it was an important win. I've been pleased with Michael Carrick. Bozum sees Sesko back on the score sheet. Bruno Fernandes keeps ticking along. And we've just got to talk about Kaby Meno because I can't believe Ruben Amrim didn't see a player.

1:19:04That's the biggest mistake he's ever made in his managerial career, I think, overlooking Kaby Meno, whose abilities are so good. And now he's started to add the defensive side to it as well. He's almost like the complete midfielder. and Ahmad's got blood on his hands for not sticking out in the back of the net

1:19:19Gary Neville: because it would have been a sister of the season. Him not changing the system towards the end, Ruben Amarin, but also the Cobby-Mainu things are the two things that I think will probably stand out most, won't they? That Cobby thing was, because I was still with Amarin for a bit up until I think when we lost against 10 men Everton, I was right behind him still. But every time I'd say I'm behind him, I'd have to add, but this Cobby-Mainu thing's doing my head in because he's overlooking him all the time. And the whole theory was Bruno and Kabi can't play together and we need to get Casemiro. And you look at them now.

1:19:52I know there's other good midfields in the Premier League, but they've been right up there in terms of performance. Casemiro looks like his old self. Again, Bruno Fernandes is further up.

1:20:00Gary Neville: They were the best two players. I thought that's night, Casemiro and Manu. I thought... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Casemiro... Is he going to leave Casemiro? Well, he is leaving. It's probably for the best. He needs to leave. But I wouldn't mind another year. Do you know something? Can I say something? I'm not saying I watched a different game but I don't think the change made that much of a difference. Oh, I do. I still think Brentford looked like scoring. No. Right throughout the game they missed some chances. They missed some chances. The lad had the header at the back post with Tara but he definitely nullified and stifled them a lot in terms of their chances from the first half.

1:20:34Gary Neville: They kept cutting through in the first half. Senny Lomans made some great saves in that first half as well. Yeah, it did. That's why we kind of... Yeah, I think we did nullify them a little bit. Obviously, once they score and it goes 2-1, you get a little bit squeaky. I thought he was smart, Michael, because I thought, do you know something? I don't think we were playing that well in the first half. We were acting good going forward at times, but I thought they could have scored at any point and could have scored two or three. And I thought the goal on half-time allowed him to make that change.

1:20:58And I thought you were right on commentary. It all came from the two midfield players out of being exposed. They're exposed massively. They're not great athletes as it is.

1:21:09Gary Neville: Brentford's wide players were doing exactly the same, but let's forget about them. Mbermo and Ahmed last night in the wide areas, they were really poor at getting back in alongside. They were almost half cheating, almost like to go on the counter-attack rather than getting back in tight alongside Kobe and Casemiro. I don't know why they were doing that. Even Bruno and Cescou were slow getting back towards and just, they weren't compact at all. Which is, that surprised me a little bit why you said our two midfield players are the best players on the pitch because I think United are vulnerable right through the middle.

1:21:38Gary Neville: Yeah, but I don't think that was because of them two. I genuinely think it was because of the other two not tucking in. Scholes, if you were after Old Trafford without Bex and Giggs tucking in, you'd be knackered. I felt for both of them last night. I actually thought Damnsgaard and Jensen were the best players on the pitch. For United, the two best players were the two midfield players, I thought. And for them... They were the best two midfield players. Yeah, probably. They were the only two. Kobe was the best player on the park. United's best players. Kobe was the best player on the park. I thought Kobe played...

1:22:07Gary Neville: Out of both teams. I think you're right. Dam's guard and Jensen did. I thought Dam's guard and Jensen were brilliant. I thought Dam's guard was really good. I did think that last night. I'm not saying it's their fault, Casemiro, because when you're exposed on that big pitch there, it's horrible. It happened to us for years in Europe, which is why we had to change it and bring another one and play one up front. Now, with them wide players, as I said, if they're not in, do you know what? Sometimes it's not up to the manager there. That's up to the players. Casemiro, look at the experience he's got.

1:22:40Come here. You two get next to us here. We're getting killed. We have missed a real natural left. When we are exposing chances away, it always comes through the middle.

1:22:49Gary Neville: Yeah. I think he did the right thing because I thought it could have been... I didn't think it made much difference. I still thought they had chances because Thiago missed so many chances. No, but they were mainly in the first half. I don't think he got that many in the second. How would you think United are going to deal with potentially 20 more games next season? I mean, look, we're going to come on to the big question which is obviously around Michael which to be fair I'm wholly torn on from a point of view of I don't think it's a big question I think it's a tapping answer No I don't know I don't know I don't think It's not so against From what's happening now when you're just playing Premier League games to the start of next season he's got to be exposed to something totally different All of a sudden you're playing three club competitions you're playing Saturday Wednesday a big deal for him getting the job next year or he should maybe you know question himself whether he wants a job is spending they've got to get players if we get Chabas in football I think that will enable us to I said that the other day I don't get the impression we're going to spend a lot of money Michael's like probably one of the best lads you could ever meet and he's obviously really intelligent he's at the start of a coaching career there is a but I just thought the other day it would be so classy and Michael-like if he said guys I've done what I came in to do I've done this job I've got you into the Champions League I've re-stabilised the club settled the place down settled the place down but now go and put someone in and look who's the old tenant who would you put in and I'll say okay then and I don't know Nagelsmann please don't say Eddie Hargham no I don't know Nagelsmann so I don't know Nagelsmann and this is not a pitch for Nagelsmann to be the manager of Man United I haven't got a clue I don't know him not watched enough of his football but if I look at his work at Hoffenheim and I look at his work at Leipzig who's a serious coaching club and then he goes to Bayern Munich and he wins the league and then he basically takes a Germany team to the World Cup and you say, right, okay, let's look at that coach.

1:24:43Gary Neville: We could win the league at Bayern Munich, couldn't we? I'm not sure I would. And what did he do with Germany at the point? No, no, okay, I'm just saying, let's just put his coaching career into a sort of what would be a body of work, right? That is a serious body of work that that guy's had, right? It's a serious body of work. And you say to yourself, okay, could he then come and be the Manchester United manager? Well, okay, you can look at the body of work and think, Liam Rossini, we didn't hesitate before and say that is not a body of work to take care of Chelsea Football Club. So when I look at it and think, OK, Michael's been at Middlesbrough, it's a really good start in his career and he did really well, but it isn't a body of work that makes you the Manchester United manager.

1:25:21Gary Neville: So that's the against. That's me thinking, has he got a body of work that can cope with this giant that's going to start roaring again? That's sort of what would be fire that's going to start coming out of the sort of dragon's mouth, which is Manchester United in the next 6-12 months is going to happen. Champions League football, Casemiro leaving, recruitment in the summer, just things happen and it becomes a bit of a different job next season. So to me, that is someone who's handled Champions League football, who's handled 60 games a season, who's handled the spotlight and scrutiny of Manchester United.

1:25:51Gary Neville: However, the second bit of it is, OK, there's no outstanding candidate that sort of jumps out. Michael, the club have just made 400 people redundant in the last 12 months. There's been a massive turnaround in terms of, and the club's been unstable. Michael's brought stability he's actually brought something that really the club haven't had for a year or two and actually would it be helpful for him to be there for another year just to bed the foundations in and then maybe a year's time when he's bed the foundations in of good principles good culture the club are happier again the staff are happier again because they trust him you can't not trust Michael Carrick everybody would trust him and love him so whether it's that and he stays in or whether it's but then there's another part of me that thinks Arsenal aren't brilliant at the moment.

1:26:36Gary Neville: They're better than United. Liverpool are just shaking a little bit. Chelsea are all over the place. Tottenham are all over the place. If City were to get found guilty of some of the more serious charges in this 115 thing, there is an opportunity to win the league in the next year or two years. Because I tell you what, there aren't that many things happening up there right now. It's poor at the top. It is as poor as it's been for a bit. Who is the best person to go and try and exploit that potential year where you can just go and get a league? and there's part of me thinking that as well and is Michael the right person for that or is it someone else that's the confusion I've got I was adamant Adam by the way four months ago before Oli Rude and Michael interviewed I said please whatever happens do not appoint any of them at the end of the season just bring one of them in now stabilise the club and put someone world class in who's got a great coaching experience and that's where I was three or four months ago why am I changing now just because of some results I even think Michael's a clever lad though as well and he will think about it seriously whether he wants it.

1:27:34Gary Neville: Well he left last time if you remember. Yeah. He left last time after all day. Michael's come to the club and he's done exactly what he did as a player he just settles everything down. He settles chaos around him down the way he plays and the way he's managed. Now he has to be part of conversations now for next season. Yeah. He has to be when I'm talking about players really what players are coming in and that might be something that because if he goes into that season next year as you say the different amount of games there's going to be a lot more games a lot more expectation at the start of the season of course there is if he goes into that with his squad I'd be worried for him come October, November I've been quite I think Ineos have got a lot wrong at United but I think their recruitment has been a lot better than it was prior to when they got there and I think they will help and I imagine they're already preparing for the summer and it feels like Champions League's a lock now so they can start preparing for that I think recruitment will be better.

1:28:33I was like you at the start with Michael Carrick, that don't just give him the job because he wins a few games or gets Champions League football. But when you look at the available managers out there, Luis Enrique is the only one that I would really budge for. The Nagelsmann thing for me, he's at the World Cup, he's going to come in mid-pre-season maybe. Is that the best preparation for anyone?

1:28:52Gary Neville: Late July, he'll be coming in, yeah. Same with Pochettino, if we were to look at him. I think Angelati signed a new deal at Brazil now, but it would have been the same with him. you're looking at the managers that are available and you go, is it worth really budging for any of these? And then one of the fears that I have with Nagelsmann is, whilst I agree with you, he is a great coach with a good CV, let's say he starts off badly. We don't win the first four games. Suddenly we're thinking, hold on, we just had Michael Carrick in here who hardly lost the game and we've just moved in for this guy who now...

1:29:20And it just feels like, I don't think that... For me, it would be Carrick for... Give him a short-term contract, see where we are next year, where the managers are that are available because I just don't think there's anyone out there that screams give me the job right now and I'm not sure if it is.

1:29:36Gary Neville: Look, I can't disagree with it to an extent but I just think that's when you get to a point of a club when you're scared of your own shadow and you've lost your way and your identity when you don't feel sure enough to be able to put in the best manager for the job and you start thinking, well, who's going to get us through the next 12 months and what if he loses four matches? You can't think short-term like that, I don't think. We've just had Ranić, we've just had Solskjaer, Ranić Ten Hag Amerim and Michael they're our last five managers not one of them has ever managed at what I would call the super club level which is with the expectations of United maybe you could argue Ten Hag at Ajax Ajax is a big club it's not the level of Manchester United in terms of Europe and globally those five managers have just sort of taken care of the club the four previous ones have struggled and we've had to basically sort of get rid of them the idea Ali was the idea of appointing another manager that hasn't got what would be that sort of massive super club experience that means that they've won Champions Leagues, they've won titles, they've handled massive players on a constant basis.

1:30:38Gary Neville: That's scrutiny. I just feel to me like we've got to... I know people say, yeah, but Jose came and he failed. But you can't just say because of a great man. That's just an argument, again, of lack of insurity. Is Luis Enrique not interested? It doesn't seem like we're really moving to make that happen. Obviously, he's got busy ends of the season with PSG. probably don't want to start discussing things with United about a move there. I just don't, it doesn't feel like one that's going to happen. Now, if Luis Enrique said, give me the job, I'd say, see you later, Michael. I think the Premier League managers now, I think the reason the Premier League's dipped is because the managers aren't of the quality that they were five, six years ago when we had Tuchel and all the sort of unbelievable Klopp and everybody else.

1:31:16Gary Neville: Pochettino, Ancelotti, all those managers that we had with Pep, obviously. If Pep cannot stay forever, he just can't. It's unbelievable how long he stayed. That's what they used to say about Fergie, I imagine. Yeah, I know. And look, he might stay for another four years and be all embarrassed. But there's got to be a point where you've got to say, who can take on Pep in the short term? Very few. Very few. But who can take on Arteta? Who do you want to take on Arteta? Slott, whoever, Chelsea, Fabregas. Do we want a real senior, serious operator who's been at the top level? Or do you want someone who's similar?

1:31:50Who is that, say that name apart from Nagelsmann, because Nagelsman, we've got to wait till the end of July. But we can't say we can't wait for managers

1:31:57Gary Neville: because of three or four weeks for pre-season. That's an important period of time, though, in the season where you're going to be getting ready, you're going to be going away and playing all these games in Scandinavia or wherever. That's an important period of time before the season starts. Alan Shearer said the other day to be fair, he said, give him a year, let him have another year sort of doing what he's doing. And you just said a short-term contract of a year just to say, look, Michael would do that, I'm sure, with the theory that next summer, there is a sort of non-World Cup year a non-tournament year and that can be the point whereby the club has rebased it's stabilised it's built a bit of a foundation the culture of the club is back to a good level because Michael's got some confidence in everybody and then you go and do that that could be a plan that has to be ambition of the club as well what did the club expect over the next year did it expect to be going for a league title did it expect just Champions League football they'll accept that also remember what you also he is top of the league I think if from when he arrived oh he is 29 points out of 13 games he's at the top of the league right now like you say outside of Pep the competition isn't Arnest Lott won the league in his first season when he came here you look at him now struggling a little bit I know there's probably different reasons for that but there's no reason why he couldn't compete for it when based off goal and what was he going to say remember what Radcliffe said about Arteta at Arsenal and you know trusting the process and giving him time I think that he'll opt for character study for sure cheap as well isn't it he'll love that I think the safest option for the club right now is probably, if you're thinking about it from that logical perspective, is to keep Michael and just keep things moving for another 12 months as it is.

1:33:30Gary Neville: Because obviously there's nothing really sort of, you know, it was bad four months ago. That Everton game, the Wolves game, you said about the low point, the Wolves game. Where's Grimsby? Those things can happen though, isn't it? Wolves at home was for me the point where I thought he's in massive trouble. I mean, Everton, I was there at the Everton game. I was at all the games around that time but the Wolves game was the one where I thought he's done his no way he can survive My head fell off after Everton it was just we were playing 10 men for 85 minutes and he was subbing centre-backs for centre-backs like what are we doing here?

1:34:03Gary Neville: Yeah Gareth this game on Sunday Liverpool-Man United which is historically probably the greatest Premier League fixture that's been disrespectful but it is built as the greatest Premier League fixture it just doesn't this feels a bit like on Sunday I said last night is this the biggest game for fans obviously it's massive but is it actually bigger for Slott and Michael Carrick is it about the managers on Sunday a little bit? I think it is yeah I think there was a bit of a feeling like that with the Macyside derby as well I mean it was absolutely fantastic for me obviously but equally I kind of thought Slott could be done here if you lose the derby Really?

1:34:42Gary Neville: Yeah What's happened to Liverpool fans? Because honestly no word of a lie I always thought Liverpool fans their manager Cara's always told me the manager is the number one. If he wins a league, they'll turn on the players before the manager. I can hear Cara saying it 20 times in the last 15 years. All of a sudden, what's happened? Yeah, that is the culture. I think a lot of people are torn. United We Stand asked me to do a Q &A for the match on Sunday. And that was one of the things I was saying back to Andy Mitton there, was that I think a lot of Liverpool fans are really torn on it because we have got this culture of you back the manager no matter what.

1:35:14I think you've got similar at United. but I don't know there's just a thing I mean I struggle with him myself I'm just not convinced by him I don't think in press conferences he's convincing I don't think he he's not emotional and we are and I don't think he connects with us in that way and look it might still be like a hangover from Klopp because he was so perfect for us and I think we still put him up on a pedestal like he came back for a Legends game the other weekend and everyone was falling over themselves again, saying, oh, I wish he was still the manager. And you're right, you know, Slott's won the league and he should have respect for that.

1:35:53But then equally, we've lost 17 games this season and it's some of the spin almost that he tries to put on performances and, you know, tell you you're seeing something that you're not type of thing. And I kind of think by now, I know there's loads of circumstance and we've been talking about them all season, but you want to see Green shoot for next season. And there's not loads of them, to be honest with you. We're going to scrape home almost bare minimum and we're going to get Champions League, it looks like. And that's good and we need that for the revenue and all the rest of it. But there's a huge thing of not being fully convinced by slot.

1:36:32And so go to Old Trafford and get a result, huge plus points. And especially, again, for the fans, because we want to go to Everton and win. We want to go to Man United and win. and we were saying before about the Cup final thing, there hasn't been a lot to enjoy this season. Do you know what I mean? There hasn't been performances or games that you can truly hang your hat on. So, I mean, even Everton, we'd nick that. Do you know what I mean? But does a loss on Sunday land him in trouble if it's a bad one? I think it's continually on a precipice like that. So, you know, as soon as there's another negative thing, everyone's like, bang.

1:37:09I mean, we were trying to talk about it yesterday on the podcast and it was weird to talk about almost like you know it looks like he'll still be in next season but what would you do what will they do I would change it I think it's gone too far in terms I think it's almost it feels like the Brendan Rodgers situation you know where he stayed too long and then we were changing the following season I can see him staying I think they will keep him I think FSG don't listen to noise they pride themselves on this not listening to noise, although they should listen to the ticket price protest, obviously.

1:37:47But, you know, on this, I think they won't listen to the noise, they'll keep hold of them. But then my fear is that if it goes wrong early next season, everyone's on them again. And then that's potentially derailed another season. And there's so much uncertainty around the club. There's uncertainty around Slott, who's only got a year left on his contract. Uncertainty around the sporting director, Richard Hughes. Uncertainty around Michael Edwards above him as well. loads of uncertainty in terms of is this player staying or going the squad isn't deep enough it feels like there's another summer of huge change ahead and there's an argument, a strong one obviously based on results to say well he didn't manage a summer of huge change well this season I think you've lost when I think of Liverpool as a team, as a staff, as a manager I feel you like the people of Liverpool or you should be like the people of Liverpool But like you said, emotional, a little bit chaotic, a bit mad at times.

1:38:45Under Klopp, you had that. Yeah. I think the slot's a bit calmer. I also think you've lost that a little bit in your players. You think of people like Diaz and, okay, Nunes didn't play a lot. But when you saw them play, it was 100 miles an hour. It was chaos. And I almost think your football team should be a reflection of your people and your city as well. And I think Liverpool have lost that a little bit. Yeah, 100%. I mean, one thing I said, and I know this is very basic, but so am I. You know, I want to see players get stuck in. I think you were touching on it before, Gary, about Tevez. You know, work hard, get stuck in, quality on top of that.

1:39:21Like, I was saying to one of my mates, can you think of many moments where we've really gone in on another team and it's got the whole of the ground up? And probably the only time, you know, there will be others, but the one that sticks out in my head is when we played Real Madrid. at their own. And I remember Cara saying, of course you should be up for that. And he's right. But, you know, PSG, they put an effort in. They made, you know, I think if you walk away from the ground going, they've given it all, but we've got beat, you can cope with that. There's too many times they've been soft as shite this season.

1:39:54And, you know, you're just looking at them and thinking, well, what's the head, the head coach as he is, what's he saying to them? Why is he not getting them going? You know, I look at the fellow you've got in now at Nottingham Forest. The stuff he's saying brilliant do you know what I mean the stuff he he was talking about Nico Williams and I was like he's making Nico Williams sound like a player we shouldn't have let go and you know there's inspiration in the things he says

1:40:19Gary Neville: Sloth's just I thought for the first well to be honest I've interviewed him I've been in studios I thought I think he's been brilliant with the press and you Livsophan yeah I think he's when he comes out after I think you want him to manage to be in control I think you want him to be sort of I think he's I thought well look last season he's almost too much in control too much relaxed you want to see something you want to see a bit of passion at times you know what I mean I know he lost it at Goodison a little bit kind of like that do you know what I mean he gives a shit yeah last season at the end yeah what game do you think it'll be on Sunday do you think it'll be a game of chess do you think both managers walk away with a draw now do you think both managers the points don't matter do they it's a pretty rare circumstance that both are already in the Champions I was looking at my games last week I thought I'm doing United Liverpool on Sunday but I thought do you know something the biggest games next weekend are Arsenal Fulham Villa Tottenham and City Everton on the Monday night the United Liverpool game I think both will qualify for Europe it's mad that you're thinking like this but I think for both managers I don't think Michael could afford a bad defeat on Sunday I don't think it would be he tends to do well in big games Michael doesn't he the Arsenal game I just wonder whether he'll go with more of the first half approach or the second half approach on Sunday in terms of being a bit more open or whether he'll just Billit McMoore both closed I can remember years ago having a pop-up Mark Ogden when he wrote about a Liverpool Man U game that it was a situation where we were both a bit shit and he wrote a piece saying this game is just two bald men fighting over the coach and I remember writing a piece saying you can never describe Liverpool and Man United as that game but we can't Is the policy coming this shit guy?

1:42:05sorry Mark

1:42:06Gary Neville: it does feel a bit I must admit my feeling towards the game on Sunday already I usually look forward to every game that I do but I'm thinking where's the jeopardy where's the sort of no there is a bit I don't want them you never want to dreadful season you don't want them to finish a movie after the season but even if they won there's a chance they don't do that it's just not as as it was I just don't think people are looking forward I think once the game starts and something happens then the crowd will make it bigger yeah let's hope so bigger than it probably is Baz you could have a massive, massive impact on Monday night.

1:42:36Gary Neville: This is the game that everybody's looking at and thinking that City don't have a great record on Merseyside compared to where they go elsewhere. Have Everton got a real chance on Monday? Do you feel like you could put a spanner in the works? You don't have a great record at Anfield. On Merseyside, whoever's giving you that stat. Slightly better. Merseyside's a little bit... Have you not dropped points? They've never won at the Hill Dickinson. Ever. You have One of the last few years we've won that. You have dropped points at Goodison though, haven't you, in the past? Years ago, yeah. We haven't beat them.

1:43:09We've got to beat at Trammer. That way was a good one up to us as well. Like that Roger Hambo, remember that? Yeah. We'll come on to VAR in a minute, don't worry. We haven't beat them since we beat them 4-0. Pep's biggest ever Premier League defeat, yeah. That was the last time we beat them. It's not even Premier League, career defeat, yeah. Low of averages. So, you know what, had this game, Everton, when we beat Chelsea the other week, were playing really well. They went to Arsenal, should have got something at Arsenal, 100%. Arguably, they could have won at Arsenal, they had the better chances on the day.

1:43:42Then we beat Chelsea and battered them the week later. Everyone had the break, of course, but I think if there was no break, then they just, you know when you feel a team, you're looking and going, we've been up to Newcastle and one and you're thinking, they're right in the groove now. And we got into a position where we were a couple of points behind Liverpool and that Champions League, and I think it'd be probably a bit too early, but the money helped. and you're thinking we've got a great chance here and we've come back from the break as if there's nothing to play for we drew at Brentford and they've been great but that day they were there for the taking the goals were awful we gave away Liverpool last week was just it was the the most comfortable in fact the only time I ever thought we'd lose the game was when you got the corner and Van Dijk it was the only time in the game there was no threat I was surprised I mean you know we had to substitute the goalie we've got a lad who's been knocking around at Preston going in in the derby and that cauldron and I thought they'll go for it I think once we lost Beto we lost Barry I think I was the better Barry on the day I'd done more than he did in the derby and then Saturday we went to West Ham and it was like we're in this and we're sorted I was disappointed with West Ham as well it looked like two teams at the end of May with nothing to play for considering they were trying to stay up and we were going for a European game it was flat however City at home it's a bank holiday it'll be light when we walk into our ground which makes a massive difference by the way because we've had 110 live games on a Monday night in the rain which has been depressing I think it'll be I think the atmosphere will be good and I think Everton will give it a good go the only thing is they look like they're in the groove at the moment and they're playing really well even Saturday watched the end of that semi-final when Southampton scored you're thinking could be on here and the next minute it's 2-1 I mean why Doc who didn't score when there was no one in is incredible so I think we'll give it a good go and hopefully VAR won't get involved because I don't know whether you've seen Saturday but the worst decision I've ever seen in my life with the handball by Fernandes not be awarded as a penalty I know Everton got away with it I think West Ham should have had a pen earlier on but that one the handball was absolutely embarrassing so I want to ask you what's your feelings on VAR because I actually think they should suspend it do goal line technology and do the offside everything else I think we've got it ridiculously wrong our CEO's had a meeting yesterday I'd probably go along with that I don't like it no it's terrible I just I just think they're looking to to cancel goals looking for a reason to disallow every single goal how bad how far I know there's I think Barcelona

1:46:26Gary Neville: have a problem with it in the Champions League they do the minute there's a human error we'd be screaming for the AR back I don't think you can get rid of it because the you know when you go the game though now you go the game for those moments don't you where there's a goal that one against whenever we score now whenever we score now every team's the same I don't feel exactly I'm just talking in general you've got a way to go you look and you go like we lost our at the first time for a while I've lost myself in a goal last week when Njais scored and then the next minute I see him Van Dijk because he was basically the ref wasn't he Cabana wasn't the ref fan.

1:46:59But I've seen him go over to the referee and the minute you see that, everyone's still shouting. I'm like, they'll disallow this 100%.

1:47:05Gary Neville: Is that the offside one? And he was off, don't get me wrong. No, but do you know something? That's why you can't get rid of VAR because, I mean, do you know something? The one thing that we always wanted at United was accuracy. Yeah, yeah. To be fair, we felt we got hard done to it at times. Are you joking? I don't know. No, but do you know something? We lost a title on a goal from Chelsea where Drogba at Old Trafford was offside and when you've experienced losing a title based on a goal you think I can never bring that back so you always think yeah I do want VAR because I want intervention on a decision that's obvious don't you think we've like I was a big thingy for it I couldn't wait for it to come in because I thought we won't be getting stitched up not the way we have every team will say this by the way I'm just talking from my perspective they won't be able to do it anymore some of these decisions because everyone sees it we've had four players sent off this season one for slapping his own player one for pulling hair and one for clapping a referee and someone put a joke on it's like a kids party that isn't it three of them with VAR since the hair pull by Calvert-Lewin Tete tried to pull Tremeno's head off VAR looked at it nothing his head jerked back I was talking Calvert-Lewin in the centre Calvert-Lewin if you pull someone's hair you should get sent off no problem everyone then Gary everyone Martinez was never a red.

1:48:24Gary Neville: 100 % a red. He grabbed there. I was talking to Dennis about it last night and I said, Dennis, we played football for 20 years each right as a defender. You never, ever, right, you might put a hand on someone's head by mistake. You don't, no, no, seriously, I did this last night with Dennis. Dennis, when did you ever grab a head? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't grab a head. You literally don't grab a head. You grab a shirt sometimes. So they grabbed his hair and pulled it. You fucking get sent off. No, there's no wish. No, No, no, but Martinez grabbed it. He could have been grabbing his shirt. He put his arm there.

1:48:55And he also had an elbow in his face. Adam, you don't grab a head. It wasn't his head. It was here. It was this part of his shirt where he's poli-tap. He pulled the hair back. Where his man bum was. He was down here. The problem is, I said this with Keane, but he grabbed the hair, so fair enough. There's no issue with that. The problem is, you'll see, as I've just proven, Tete done it to Semenya. Yeah, the consistency. The ball wasn't even in. It wasn't like you're jumping for a header and you've grabbed it. he's just ragged us here nothing on that that's just one thing there's loads of stuff for every team with VAR look at it and then what they're doing now they're not sort of going we got that wrong they're coming out with a different line that gives them a little bit of movement remember the Liverpool goal of Fulham I'm just using that because the first time I've ever heard

1:49:41Gary Neville: there's a five centre thing now that we can use the line you lost a game I think was it this season or last season when Tarkovsky goes like against Leeds first day you and Carragher said it was ample I think it was handball, yeah. There's about 18 since that. Now they're saying no, it's not handball. I thought that was a handball because he just goes like... He didn't. He went like, I've got the still if you want to watch it. Right, on that note, that's the end of another fan debate brought to you by Skybet. Thank you so much, everybody. Well done. Brilliant. Thank you.

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