Eddie Howe: From League 2 To Champions League

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0:32I'm OK. OK. Nice to see you. Good, thanks. How are you? You all right? Yeah, yeah. You're good. Good to see you. No word of a lie, I've just been to a Martins & Spencer's Simply Food round the corner on an industrial party, you probably know where it is. It's the coldest place I've ever been in my life. I've honestly, I actually said, is the store manager in? They've all got coats on. I know it's cold up here. This is illegal.

1:00I like the little tactics tables. They're right, aren't they? Yeah, I like it. You know, all that digital stuff as much as you want, but there's nothing like being able to move it on there. No, I'm still... You can see. I'm still visual. Jesus, you've got more tactics than you. I'm a visual guy.

1:24I take it very seriously. You've either got to train well and get on board, or you're not really gonna exist under me. I get in, I sit on the sofa the Champions League's on, I say to my oldest son, give me a pen and paper. I got an idea and he's sort of like been through the door five minutes. You know, I was born with through and through, so I really felt that pain and I felt like I'd let everybody down from that moment and when that happened. I wasn't quite the same manager.

1:53Eddie, is there anything on these boards that you don't know? I've, that's fine, I've moved them around, so... LAUGHTER I've been doing all sorts. When I look at these boards... That's right, you might... Tactically, I've been out of the game too long because they're playing a nine at the back. I don't think Oppenheim would work this out. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine... You've got 15 tactics boards. Now, I know a manager has to have a tactics board in his office, but 15? Actually, to be fair, my first question was going to be something else, but I'm going to have to ask you about the tactics board.

2:26I've never seen as many tactics boards in my life. Eddie, tactics boards. Are we starting? Yeah, we just relax and stuff. What are the differences between all of them? It's weird because I don't actually use tactics boards that much on game day. So I'm not obsessed with tactics boards, I want you to know that. But for planning purposes, for training, with how we train, I feel like we need to know everything that's going on. so we just try and break it up and yeah, we have a tactics ball for pretty much everything here. My actual first question was going to be to you, or first statement was, you're the most difficult person I've ever interviewed.

3:08In a good way, I suppose, in some ways. It was at Bournemouth. Do you know Brett Smart, the floor manager from Sky, he said to me, just be ready for Eddie because his answers are very short and we need three minutes out of you and if you've only got four or five, anyway, I asked you five questions and we were about a minute 20 in and I was literally treading water thinking what's my next one of the first manager interviews I'd done is that something that you think when you go into an interview I'm just going to go very short answers and sort of like not give a lot away well I'm actually uh it's the first time that that feedback's come my way yeah I mean yeah so I might have to pad my answers out a bit for you today because that's just natural that's just I don't want to over talk I'm well aware of that when I'm asked a question I don't want to repeat myself or people get turned off so probably I keep it short for that really.

3:58So back to the tactics boards you've got all these tactics boards is that because you design every single individual practice on each individual board before you got do you take all the training sessions or do you split up the teams into units how do you how do your how's your coaching day go? Yeah definitely on the planning phase I'm all the way through it with the other The coaches, I wouldn't necessarily take every drill. I'm not necessarily saying I have my fingerprints all over it, but I'll be there and I'll be reactive with it, even if I'm not taking it, because I want the responsibility on match day, knowing that it's my work that's impacting the game.

4:39And do you work with both defence and attacking units, or do you specialise in one of the units more? Yeah, that's a good question. So Jason Tindall, my assistant, will predominantly take the majority of the defensive work that we do. And that's been our way of working now for some time. Obviously, a lot of the time we'll do that in tandem with each other. All that will be him on its own and then I'll focus on everything else. I do believe in trying to detail your coaching so you're not just covering everything blandly. you're going into detail on specific practices and exercises and I think that will probably continue through our work in the future where we'll go probably more in depth and more detailed.

5:25I think back to my time at Valencia which I made many mistakes but when I got there I focused almost solely because they were conceding goals on the defensive work. I remember speaking to a couple of experienced coaches when I came back and they said actually you'd been better I think working on your attacking principles but I actually found it difficult to coach the attacking play would you agree that it's more difficult to coach attacking play than it actually is defensive play? Yeah, probably yes. I'd say because the attacking play, you've got so much you can do. You've got so much variety and it's like an open box for you, really.

6:02You can choose which direction you go. I think defensively, you'll have a few choices to make. Are you man-to-man? Are you zonal? You're limited. and then once you break the work down, it's pretty, I won't say everyone will do the same thing, but it's pretty much there of what you need to deliver. But I much prefer, it's weird, I was a defender. Many people might know that. They'll know what you did in your playing career. They won't know what I did, but I was a defender. But I much prefer to take the attacking side of the game. I don't know why that is, but I almost contrast to my playing style.

6:35I'm always thinking creatively for the attackers, so I'm not necessarily one of those managers that follows my playing career really. How have you changed in respect of your style or how you see your style of play over the period of time you've been a manager? It would definitely change from the early days, I mean the early days we were, very early days League 2, trying to stay in the league, we were quite pragmatic. Although my inner feelings was that this isn't how I want to play long term. I knew straight away that needs must at that moment. So we were probably quite lucky that we started at that level in League Two because we were able to change and evolve our playing style through the leagues.

7:18And we were able to get results while doing that. And we've come to today and our style of play today is exactly what I wanted it to be in those very early days. and we're always now searching for new and exciting ways to play we're sort of an open book we'll never think that's it this is how we're going to be forever we're very much changing all the time How do you adapt those little sort of how do you make those continual changes while still trying to sort of if you like focus on your key sort of foundation fundamental messages that you're giving how do you add something to it to keep it interesting for the players that next step if you like I think you have to I think if you're still so the minute I walk through the door at Newcastle I'm still doing the same things two and a half years later I think there'll be a problem because you'll start to lose the players and they'll be bored, hopefully they're not bored yet, hopefully they're taking on new information, I think it's a case of how you see the game really, so I'm always looking at other teams and I'm always looking at elite games to try and look at things that those teams do and think could we add that, would that fit our players and our style, if it doesn't you don't do it but if it does then you might subtly gradually introduce that to our play What team would you look at we've seen the Champions League quarter-finals in the last couple of weeks what game would you look at and think I like that I'd like to introduce that is there something that you could sort of pick at well I think it very much depends on the team style so what I wouldn't want to do is mix our style with something that I really respect so I really respect a lot of the top teams obviously Arsenal Manchester City do they play in the style that we do know we're different.

8:58So we can't be something we're not. We have to be us. And it has to be true to sort of the vision that I have for the game and it has to be something that I think will enhance our performance. So that might be something. It might be something that Manchester City do or Arsenal do or Liverpool do. But it wouldn't be sort of a replica. It would be aligned to our way of playing. When I watch your teams, I think that at the best, they're predominantly attacking teams, you try and win the ball high up the pitch. You don't overcomplicate it at the back in the sense that you don't sort of play 15, 20 passes.

9:32You still look to me like you're trying to, like I suppose we were at United, you're trying to get the ball efficiently forward as quickly as possible into forward play. Is that how you would see your sort of style of play? That's how I see it when I watch it. Yeah, I mean, thankfully that is sort of in line with my philosophy. So hopefully we are delivering what we want to. So, yeah, we want to be proactive. We want to be an aggressive, high-pressing team. That is one of the fundamentals we had right at the start of our coaching journey. And then, yeah, we're not a complicated team in deep areas in the build-up phase.

10:06That may change as we progress. But at the moment, we are very proactive, trying to get the ball forward in a controlled way, not in a random way. but I want to see and coach attacking football with the team always looking to score we don't try and be overly patient in that build up phase do you sit there like I do quite a lot sometimes and see a team centre backs drop to the six yard box and think the risk the reward doesn't seem to stack up I mean it doesn't stack up in my head even just thinking of me playing the game and you obviously a defender is that how you see it I think what's the benefit of this do you get a little bit like that as a coach?

10:47I mean obviously you're at the sort of elite coaching level do you think like that as a coach? No I see the benefits of it and we will do that so I've got no issue with necessarily that principle being really expansive and building with your goalkeeper and that style it's just when we're doing it we're doing it not with a view to having 10 passes in our own penalty box with a view to progressing the play quite quickly up the pitch so that then comes to the risk over reward So my personal view is if we can go forward in one or two passes, let's do that rather than have five or six. Did you take it on with you?

11:23Without a doubt. I sit on the sofa the Champions League's on. I say to my oldest son, get me a pen and paper. I've got an idea. You're always there just thinking of your team, thinking of the next game.

11:46You've done brilliantly well at Newcastle in this last couple of years, and obviously before at Bournemouth, but what was the point at Newcastle where you recognised, actually, I like what I'm seeing here? Was there a point in last season where you thought, this is us, this is what we are? It was probably more the season before, if I'm honest, so it was in our battles to stay in the league. You saw it that early, did you? Yeah, I started to see towards the end of that season where we were winning games. We had to win a lot of games to stay up because we had such a difficult start. that I was, oh, there's a really good feeling about the group.

12:17Confidence, there's real ability within the players. I think we could really do something with this group. Now, I didn't expect that to happen so quickly the next season. But I think there was a feeling that we could carry that momentum forward and really like some of the players we have, and we managed to bring in some really good ones as well. So it was more the feeling. I instantly, when I came to Newcastle, felt at home and happy, which you never quite know when you go to a new club if you're fit with them and vice versa. But I felt that instant connection and I think that in part goes to how I feel translate, of course, through the team.

12:53Just looking at sort of last season and obviously it was an exceptional season and I was thinking what is success at Newcastle? But when you think of the constraints and the restrictions relating to FFP, this is actually success, isn't it? Between sort of what would be fourth and sixth, I would say is absolute success. Would you agree with that? I mean, that's not lacking ambition because everyone wants to win the league. When you look at what the spending, the sort of, if you like, number one, two and three, it's just a completely different level. Would you agree with that? Yeah, I mean, I think I would.

13:25I think for us, fourth was never, in our eyes last year, it was a case of could we build from the previous season? Could we continue, well, firstly, not to have a relegation battle on our hands and grow the team forward? We hit fourth. And I think when we hit fourth, then it's almost a case of we've climbed so quickly so early where do we go from here for us we're hugely ambitious you never take a step back it's like can we improve not so much on the league position in terms of our general performance at times we have and at times we haven't this year it's been quite up and down um december in particular was a difficult month for us but we managed to sort of weather that period and since new year i think we've done consistent in our own way and if we could maintain our position then I think that would be a great season and I know you're not I mean none of us are accountants here but you've got it's one of the sort of expectation issues that you've got the the richest owners potentially in the league yet you can't flex your muscles because of the FFP rules where where do you sit on it I'm actually against FFP I've been for 10-15 years the idea that an owner can't spend what they want on a football club within reason but as long as the money's there and it's secure I've always believed that you should be able to spend money it seems to have tightened and become far more of a focus in the last sort of 12 months this ffp thing how how did Newcastle get out of that and do you feel a little bit frustrated by it as well well I think it's a good question on the on the the expectations so the whenever you you hear Newcastle mentioned externally media it's always richest club in the world tag yeah it goes next to it and I think that's been that's been difficult court for us because there's almost that pressure on us even though we're not living that reality and we've had to battle that really I think the players have handled that really really well look I've come from a club like Bournemouth that had to invest to to grow so I am a same train of thought as you I think if the owner's got the money and wants to invest in a safe way and put the money into the club then why can't he spend that money I think that's how football should work.

15:29We don't want to see football clubs get into any kind of financial problems long-term, but as long as that money's ring-fenced, I think they should be able to use it. Yeah, I agree with that. I think there has been an education piece, I think, in the last six to 12 months that I think people do recognise now, even though Newcastle have got the sort of wealthy owners, that they are restricted and they can't go and do what, obviously, some other clubs have done in the past 15 years. In terms of sort of looking at the leadership style of you what are your non-negotiables let's say you come into Newcastle day one obviously you've managed other clubs before but what are your non-negotiables when you come here well I think first look regarding the players I think you've got to get the players with you and fighting for you and I think that's one of my non-negotiables in the sense that I ask the players to give me everything and that's not just on match day that's every day at training My mentality to training is, I take it very seriously.

16:22That's my match day, really. And you've either got to train well and get on board or you're not really going to exist under me. It's not going to work. I'm looking for players that want to work hard, improve, grow, and then I'll be by their side as long as they need me out on the training pitch. And I think once you have that buy-in from the players and they start to hopefully get success from it, then we grow from there, really. have there been any examples that obviously you trust the players they trust you but have there been occasions where you felt that in the last two years that maybe at the beginning that you thought I've just got to maybe just clean up one or two things before I move forward has that happened here?

17:02In what respects? Just maybe with players I actually look at the, because Alain Sam Maximum was a brilliant player for Newcastle wasn't he a brilliant player for you but then he left and Anthony Gordon come in who probably at the time had less, the stats weren't as good as San Maxi Man's, but it was almost like you were sort of saying, no, I want a certain type of player out there on that wing. Is that a fair comment, would you say? Not necessarily in that individual circumstance. So Maxi was a player that I absolutely loved. And yes, he was slightly different to the sort of conventional wingers that maybe I've had in the past.

17:40An absolute maverick, a magician with the ball. but we were accommodating him and his strengths and his weaknesses within the team loved welcoming him that was again financial fair play was hitting us so we had to lose Maxi at that moment and I think you know it was probably his time to leave for him as well and then of course you're looking to replace a player that was a difference maker you could never go like for like there are I don't know another Alan Samaxman with his qualities so you have to find someone different and Anthony that's probably where we are we're recruiting players at the moment that are up and coming, that haven't hit their best levels, try and get them early, develop them, and they grow into those players.

18:21Is that not the best way to be irrespective of the money? When I look at sort of the clubs who've gone for what would be, and the club I support have done it, where they've gone for what would be sort of like the star signings, almost like the sort of players that have already reached the top. You know, at Manchester United, I was there for 20 years. We never signed a player. Maybe Robin Van Persie towards the end, I think that was maybe one. it was always they had more left in the tank. Do you think that should ever change at Newcastle, that idea that you sign players that are just below the top level and they've got that grow?

18:52Well, I think for my way of working, I think those players fit my style really well. So you're developing them and growing them in a certain way and moulding them to your style so they can fit into the team model the best way possible. I think if you have a finished product, there's not much moulding to do there. So I think possibly yes with what you say. I don't think that means there's not a place for a superstar or however you want to bracket that type of player, a difference maker. I think you can accommodate them as well. But I think definitely where we are at the moment, with the constraints we're working under, that's the best way for us to work.

19:33When I look at your career over the last 10, 15 years, you've never failed to get the best out of every player or every team that you've had how have you achieved that because I think that to me that is ultimate success for as a leader that you've been able to extract the maximum out of those people that you've worked with yeah I'm not sure if that's totally true although that's been my intention so I will every day come to work with a view to getting the best out of every individual player progressing their careers in the best way possible. Coaching them in the way that I would want to have been developed and helped while still trying to sort of harness and help the team.

20:16It's quite a process-driven approach. It takes a lot of time and effort from me and the coaching staff to help the players in that way. But I do believe it can produce spectacular results when you get it right. And I think you can change people's careers, definitely. What's your day? what time are you in here in the morning looking at these 200 ,000 markers that are on the sport? I certainly don't start the day by looking at them. So I'm in quite early. I do a gym session to help me mentally. What time do you come in? 6.30 at the moment. Every day here? Every day here, half an hour. So I start sort of this period at seven.

20:52And then it's, depending on the day, of course, if it's sort of far away from the game, it will be all about how we can help the team for the weekend, looking at our opponent, trying to find strengths, weaknesses and go to work. How does that impact you coming in at 6.30 every day? Because I always think managers are different. You're obsessive about, I love football, but managers are obsessive about football. There's a difference. I couldn't do it. That idea of 6 every day and then what time would you finish, standard time finishing it? It depends on the day. so today will be sort of five, six o 'clock I think but that can be that can change do you take it on with you?

21:34well yes without a doubt so yesterday sort of it rings a stick to my head because it was yesterday I get in I sit on the sofa the Champions League's on I say to my oldest son get me a pen and paper I've got an idea and he's sort of like been through the door five minutes and I'm starting to write down an idea for tomorrow's training session by looking at the game for five minutes and I'm thinking, I haven't seen my kids, but it's that kind of, you're always there, just looking at, thinking of your team, thinking of the next game, whatever the recent thought is, you can't escape it, that's how I live.

22:11Do you get accused of being there, but not being there, almost like you suck? Always, of course by my wife, by my circle of friends now, has got smaller and smaller and smaller, because it does because they're going off doing these things and you're now I'm here I'm in this world at the moment and I rarely come out of it What Champions League game were you watching the Arsenal one or the City one? No I watched the City one You watched the City one Yeah I thought it was a good game What did you like about it? I thought it was interesting the first half it was like a game of chess wasn't it really in terms of completely different styles wasn't it?

22:45Yeah well I don't watch a game for enjoyment anymore that's the thing so as soon as I became a coach or a manager you sort of they used to sit back probably like we all do or did when you're playing and just enjoy the game and not think too much now it's what are they doing there and what are they doing there and how are they approaching this and it just becomes a tactical minefield so the enjoyment sort of true love has gone you can't even enjoy a game at night not really you're looking at it just tactically all the time and why are they doing this and it becomes it doesn't mean you don't enjoy it but it's just you know when you watch a game and you just the scoreline becomes important but that's not the case for me now I forget City because obviously I think that one they're in our league and two I think they're methodical every single week what would you look at Madrid and think how they set up how they played sort of how would you how would you look at that game differently than say I and the other people watching at Homewood well I don't think too differently for Real Madrid because I think they I mean Carlo's just what he's done over a consistent number of years is unbelievable but I think they're very much still talent-based.

23:54They've got unbelievable individuals that make a real difference, real pace on transitions. So I'm not necessarily looking at them too tactically, I don't think. I think it's Manchester City who... Are you looking at City, were you? Yeah, but I think you're always looking at Manchester City. Not that I would ever look at them and go, because they're just so different from us that I don't think you can take too much. You can certainly take little things and I respect what they do immensely. It's the maddest league I've ever seen that one. I still look at that period as one of the happiest in my management career.

24:26We've got the best pyramid system for developing players and managers. And I'm a firm believer in that process, really. If you can't start with a high-profile job in the Premier League, then I think you have to earn it.

24:49You're the most successful English-British manager over the last four or five years in the Premier League. Are you aware of that in terms of where that leads in terms of the conversation in the future? Obviously not now because you're at Newcastle, but have you had an ambition one day to think about England or international football maybe as you get older? It's a strange one for me because when I'm in this mode, I'm totally oblivious to everything. So I'm just so focused on the sort of the day-to-day part, and it's not a cliched answer, it's the truth, that I don't sort of open my head or lift my head and see what's going on or what people say.

25:27And talking a broader subject of the national team, so my big memories, and I'm not just saying because you're here, well, I am, because you are here, but like watching you play for England in that era was very much me, sort of my early years, forming a love with England and really wanting them to do well in the major tournaments and having that feeling of devastation when I didn't quite get over the line. Every two years. Yeah, but it was... I loved that feeling of watching the national team. I was really submersed in it. So, yeah, I love England and I love everything and I hope England go on and this summer win the Euros as I think they can.

26:04I love Gareth and I've got real determination for that to happen. I've never really thought about international football for me personally. Who knows what will happen in the future. When I look at it, I just think, how difficult.

26:43W-O-R-K dot com. Post a job for free and get started today. Difficult it has been for English coaches to establish themselves, not only in the Premier League, but in the top six of the Premier League, which is what you've done in the last couple of seasons. How does, just broadly, not necessarily relating to you, but how does broadly English coaching become more respected? What do we need to do as a country? You're obviously at the right, at the forefront of it at the moment. it's disappointing for me because I think back to those 30, 40 years ago and I thought there were parts of Bobby Robson, Terry Venables area where it was quite respected in Europe with Barcelona and obviously PS behind over the other big jobs but it seems to have gone away a little bit well it's gone away a lot actually I think there is some really, really good coaches English, British coaches in not just the Premier League but in the Championship and Lower Leagues and I'm a firm believer in that process really If you can't start with a high-profile job in the Premier League, then I think you have to earn it.

27:46And I didn't really set up with that aim. It was just a case of trying to survive and trying to be as successful as I could and ultimately ended up having success. But I think there's some really good coaches. And I think we've got the best pyramid system for developing players and managers. So I think the younger guys coming through have just got to keep being successful. And sometimes you're fighting against the grain because you're fighting against possibly bigger clubs, bigger budgets. but somehow you've got to try and find a way. Is that one of your sort of great, if you think about, you worked at a club that was on the verge of bankruptcy.

28:18Now you're working at a club that's sort of, if you like, extremely wealthy, but you've got such a broad, massive breadth of experience. I always think, how do you build a career as an English coach? Has it just happened or did you always think it would happen that way? Is it a case of just opportunity led and then you just sort of go for it type thing? Is it a bit like that? Opportunity. I never had a grand vision to start again. It was, as I said, it was survive. So first thing was, can we stay in League Two? Fighting to drop into the conference. Then it was, can we survive and stabilise? In League Two, we got promoted.

28:55Then it was exactly the same each year. Can we survive in League One? We got promoted and it just built from there, really. And now I'm sat here, which, I mean, it's been a lot, I have to say, a lot of sacrifice and hard work. I don't think you get anywhere without it in whatever job you're doing. But ultimately, looking back now, I've loved every second of it. You know your next job's Salford, don't you? There's this club in League Two that I part-owned. We just need to get to the Premier League. Well, I've been there before in League Two, so no surprises. What did you make of League Two? I'm going to ask you a question.

29:28I think League Two, I've watched it for four seasons every week. I don't miss a game. I think I've missed one game in four years, either by link or by going. I mean, it's the maddest league I've ever seen that one. Did you feel like when you were in it? Obviously, you got out of it quite quickly, didn't you? But how did you get out of the league too quickly? What was it that sort of you felt got you out of it? Well, no secrets and everything that you'll know. We had a goal scorer. Right. Brett Pittman was, in terms of a finisher, one of the best I've ever worked with. And we had a solid back line.

30:00And I think if you have those two mixes, then you're going to be successful. I loved it. I loved the lower leagues. I mean, I played in League One near enough all my career. So I'm coming from that experience where I love the challenge. I love the competitiveness of the divisions. And it's one of those leagues, I think, that you can... There's very little between the top teams and the bottom leagues. And if you can get the little details right, you can be successful quite quickly. How did you travel with that team or a portion of that team to the Premier League? That just doesn't happen, does it?

30:32yeah well I didn't think it would happen either I mean it was one of those things where when we got promoted from League One you sort of get to the Championship and you think we're going to have to rebuild here you know this team probably is not going to be able to survive I think we finished 10th in our first season in the Championship and with real late momentum really good late surge and you're thinking add a couple of players here I think we signed Callum Wilson because the time wasn't the Callum Wilson that he is now he was the young player coming through and then suddenly the next year we were just an unbelievable team to manage.

31:05I loved every second of that. We won the championship in great style. We played some unbelievable football. And yeah, some of those players that were there at the very early days had come all the way through. And then again, in the Premier League, you think, right, we're going to have to rebuild here. They're not going to survive in the Premier League. And those players again went again. And suddenly you're thinking, you know, we're giving the top teams a really good game with players that have fought with every fibre to be at that level. And it was just so inspirational for me to manage that group of players.

31:40They were incredible. Is it the classic case of a sort of tight-knit group who give their all, who've got a massive spirit, being able to just jump above potentially teams that have got more ability, cost more? It's that classic one of sort of hard work, isn't it? Beating sort of talent, if you like. It is absolutely that. And we could feel that at the time. you knew that our players were giving more and they had to give more to compete. But in saying that, there was also a lot of talent there as well. You can't get there without the ability and you had players that were supremely talented too.

32:16I still look at that period as one of the happiest in my management career. Would you say it was the happiest season, that one? Championship one going into the Premier League? Well, I think when you win something, when there's an actual trophy to lift, there's no better feeling. But then when you go into the Premier League, the Premier League's just an eye-opener on every level and we were able to survive the early years in the Premier League and I think that gave me just as much satisfaction as well. What part of your job do you find... Is it this? What part of your job do you just think? I say this because, again, in Valencia, I find it because I was losing, which was obviously the biggest problem.

32:55But we played every single midweek. We were in the Europa League and I was doing an interview Friday, Saturday, Tuesday, Wednesday after the game and Friday, Saturday again. I thought, I've got nothing else to say. I mean, to be fair, it's not helpful if you're losing matches. Is it the media demands that you think is probably the most difficult part, would you say? Or would you say other parts? I'd say that when you're not winning games and you're doing the media every two, three days, it is difficult. It's tough, yeah. Because you're going, I'm not sure what else, as you say, I'm not sure what else I can say here.

33:25Yeah. I find that difficult, but not, I wouldn't say that's the worst part for me the worst part is disappointing my players I hate leaving good players out the team I hate that moment when you're going to disappoint them especially if they've got great attitudes and they're giving you everything they can give and you're not picking them on a regular basis I find that very difficult because I care about their respective journeys and I want them to enjoy playing for me so I find that difficult How do you manage that? Just honesty I think there's always for me if ever I'm in that situation I just have to be really honest and I've never I've found that's never harmed me rather than shying away from a difficult conversation I'll have it it's actually to be fair when people say to me what was unique about Sir Alex he never left a player out of a game that they'd played in the game before without having a conversation with them one on one never in all my time might not always tell you the truth why you're being left out sometimes he'd sort of say I'm resting you or sometimes you might say well you would always have a conversation do you always have that conversation?

34:33If you left out 3-4 games he wouldn't but if you were playing a game and then you didn't play the next he would have that conversation do you tend to have that one on one conversation with the players? At least I've got one thing in common with Sir Alex that would be very much my philosophy if you're in the team and you don't play the next game I'll always have a conversation with you but if you're not in for a run of games then I wouldn't be having that conversation every week. But it's when there's a change to the line-up. And I believe the player deserves that respect. Yeah, I always found it was mainly with England when players would say that, I think one, I can't remember what it was now, a team sheet went up on the wall almost.

35:13You're looking at sort of, or it was just announced, and you'd see someone's face in the dressing room almost in shock. I could never understand how that would be the case in terms of how that would sit with players. and obviously you feel the same way. Yeah. From day one, that was sort of one of, you say about non-negotiables, that was one of my non-negotiables. That's my duty to do that for the player. So you go home at night and you're watching the Champions League and you've got your note pad out. How does that, obviously from the point of view, sort of your family and your wife, how do you escape from football?

35:47What is it that during the week that you do where you just have that half day, might be an evening when you get away what is it that you do because no one ever knows what you do which is a good thing but obviously you sort of keep your private life to yourself but how do you get away from it I tend not to really going back to your very rarely I'd say going back to your question where you said what do you find most difficult it would probably be that that I find it difficult to take myself mentally away or do something for enjoyment now I've got my kids which I'm sort of excluding them you know they're great company for me they give me a different perspective and I think without them I'd find it very difficult so that's excluding that really that the time I have with them but usually with three boys yeah where am I on a pitch and I'm in the garden playing with them so that you know it's they're all playing yeah they they they've got the football bug there's no escape there's no escape but in some senses I'm then back coaching again and in the garden and giving them a hard time.

36:51How are you with them compared to the players? It's similar. Yeah, it is similar. And I hope I'm all right. I hope I'm not damaging them. I will lend them my critique. You know, I will try and help them and coach them. I get the odd, why can't I shoot? You know, I can't do this or I can't do that. You're supposed to be helping me and I'll get the blame. But no, they're amazing. And yeah, they love the game. I was so involved with that emotionally, so I really felt that pain. And I felt like I'd let everybody down. That stayed with me for months and months and months. Did it? Yeah. But ultimately, it's probably helped me.

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38:09Hi, everyone. I hope you're enjoying this episode. This is just a quick thank you to Skybet, our partners, for making this show happen. It's something I've wanted to do for a long, long time. Please subscribe. There's loads more episodes coming up, and I hope you're enjoying it.

38:29Moving on to Newcastle now and thinking about this job here, you're achieving what should be achieved here. How would you make that next step that is expected, but in reality is difficult with the current restrictions? Yeah, I think the only way that I know is to smart recruitment. That is going to be ultimately, I think, where we succeed or fail. And when I say smart, we've got to get players for cheaper than maybe the market value. And we've got to get them before maybe they're recognised and develop them. I don't know another way with the restrictions as they are. And obviously keeping our current group that we've got, the really talented players that are making a difference and continue to grow.

39:13I think it can be done, but I think it's going to be very hard. How has your recruitment involvement evolved during your managerial career? So go back to the beginning and then take us right the way through to now. You've probably got an army of, obviously, there'll be an army of scouts, I suspect, at Newcastle and all the different people at higher levels. How has it evolved? What do you do now and what did you do then? Yeah, I'd say my actual role in everything isn't totally different, really. I mean, we had Bournemouth in the very early days, we had one scout who was unpaid. So he's working for free, me and Jason.

39:48And that was it. So it would be the unpaid scout going, what about him? We'd go, we'd either play against them or see them go. In those days, you'd go and travel from Bournemouth four or five hours, watch them and come back. And that was it. And now, of course, yes, we have a huge recruitment team, sporting directors, you know, you name it, we've got it. but I still have to watch the players in detail before signing them because I've got to coach them. I've got to invest in them. I've got to take all the time to develop their games. I've got to know their games and I've got to think that they fit the style.

40:23So my actual role in it hasn't changed. Of course, a lot of the work behind it and beforehand is detailed now. Is it mainly video watching now because of the fact that you're just so busy during the week and you're just watching hours and hours of video of that player? How do you get the character and personality bit right, which for you I think is essential, for every manager it's essential. Yeah, so it is video. The personality stuff is more references, word of mouth. Luckily now through my journey I've met a lot of people and usually there'll be a link to a club and there'll be a detailed conversation about what they're like.

40:55You've done here at Newcastle, I think that since the new old, I was expecting something different. I was expecting for some reason there to be money splashed. I was expecting there to be certain types of players signed. But it's been a really, I would say, sensible foundation that's been built over the last two years. Are you in phase one of that foundation? What's the plan? I know you won't maybe have a five to ten year plan, but what is the plan that's explained to you in terms of what the expectation is to go above that level where you're currently at? And how do you do that as a club? Obviously generate more revenue probably is the one thing.

41:33Yeah, I mean, in terms of the plan, I think it's very difficult whenever I've been previously hit with we've got a five year plan I think for a manager you always look at it and go that's great but let me focus on this year that doesn't mean that I've always had the firm belief that every decision we make whether it's recruitment or whatever it is for the football club it's always taken with a long term view but also the short term view is both mixed in I'll never make a short term decision that impacts the long term negatively but I don't work on five year plans I can't so I don't know that's probably not my domain my thought now is can we end the season as well as we can and then when we go into next season let's improve again It's probably a difficult question but obviously Dan asked me at this moment in time isn't here what is your sort of upward reporting structure?

42:24Would you have gone to Dan in the past or would you have gone to the chairman or how would it work at Newcastle? When Dan was here it was very much Dan Dan would be my reference point on anything really. Now Dan's left, it's Darren Eels, the CEO. So really, in terms of my working week and day-to-day, nothing's changed. And managing up, has that been something you've always been comfortable with in terms of football? Because some managers manage up well, some managers don't manage up well. You've obviously managed up well. How do you do that in terms of how much contact do you ordinarily have? I think it depends on the person the owner or whatever you're do you send them the team on match day and things like that some managers send I've had it at Salford where I've never asked once for the team I've never been involved in team selection but sometimes you get the team sent to you on match day just because that's what the manager's obviously done at previous clubs do you do that type of thing?

43:19absolutely not I'll always try and do that with the team I won't tell anyone I think it's very much individual based so the owner that I had at Bournemouth was it once sometimes a chat about the team not not the team you're going to pick but you know the team the squad how is everything how is everybody looking and it was very informal and very relaxed and i've always found that i've i've tried to concentrate on the job and do the job to the best of my ability to help me manage upwards yeah if that makes sense that can alleviate a lot of the problems and again i think if you do when you do communicate you communicate honestly yeah that's always been my big thing so if i made a mistake sorry if i've made a mistake yeah i'll try and come out and say i've made a mistake yeah rather than try and hide it yeah we used to do a section on um on on this interview that was called failure is a bruise not a tattoo which was basically that sort of obviously you know i got it sent to me after i left valencia what would be that moment in your life where you think that's the lowest i've been what would be that moment where you think that's it, I can't get any lower than that I think definitely the moment in my management career would be relegation from the Premier League that was, I'd given so much into the Bournemouth job and I cared so much about the team's success the club's success that I was so involved with that emotionally living in the area, coming through the youth team there I was Bournemouth through and through so I really felt that pain and I felt like I'd let everybody down and I knew that it was time for me to leave I had no more energy to give to help the club get back up I was spent on energy I needed to recharge myself but that stayed with me for months and months and months but ultimately it's probably helped me come out of that period refreshed refocused and helped me learn I always think like you say the bruise it's when you failed or perceived to have failed you reset or I did and re-evaluate and then hopefully come back better How did you re-evaluate?

45:34How did you sort of if you like reset in that three month period? What did you think right I'm going to do this differently next time or I'm? I don't necessarily think I came out of it when I'm going to do this differently but I re-evaluated everything so I went back and I've said this in previous interviews through all my training that I'd done literally everything Well that season or the previous season Like forever. Everything that I had footage of, I went back and tried to make it digital because everything was in diaries. I was going back through book after book after book, but I needed to sort of upgrade that.

46:04That didn't work anymore. So I wanted to make it digital. So I had everything a lot easier to find. And I think that I found that really, it might not sound it, but really therapeutic to go through all the old training. And that was really good. We did that five years ago. It was amazing. And I'd forgotten about it. And yeah, so I took a lot out of that. and that would just be one example of sort of going back, analysing and then I felt coming back into my next job I'd be a lot better for it. Where are you at now as a manager in terms of sort of your thought process compared to where you were then at Bournemouth?

46:38In terms of sort of like confidence, belief, you know, feeling assured, are you at a different level than you were at Bournemouth or do you feel in a similar place? I probably, I don't necessarily think I've changed in terms of my confidence and belief. I always felt I had a, definitely not an arrogance, I've never had that, but a strong work ethic I think gives you confidence. And I always feel like when we go into a game, I'm happy. I'm happy because I've done the work. And if we lose, we lose, but I can't give any more. So I always had that attitude. But I feel maybe because it's another club, I've had success at that second club, which was always a thing that was labelled against me.

47:20I didn't really care about that, but I think the perception was you can only do it at Bournemouth. I certainly maybe feel better for getting that off my back. Yeah, because the perception was obviously when you came to Burnley in the north, that that just wasn't for Eddie. That seemed to be the sort of, you'll have heard that perception, won't you? And obviously you've put that right now because you've come as north as it possibly gets. What was it at Burnley that just sort of didn't work for? What was it that sort of didn't happen for you? Yeah, I think Burnley was a difficult time. And again, it's been well documented that my mum died really suddenly just in and around the end of my time at Burnley.

47:58And I have to be honest, from that moment and when that happened, I wasn't quite the same manager. That knocked me emotionally. And that's why I felt the need to go back to Bournemouth. That was it, really. I hoped to be a success at Burnley. I can't guarantee that I would have been. But I was working towards that. But from that moment, then I think it was difficult for me. Was it the one thing that knocked you off track? Obviously, your mother passing. Yeah, it was because it was so sudden. Yeah, I think when you're a football manager, you're supposed to be robust enough for anything. This is the public perception that a manager can withstand anything.

48:37And you sort of get used to that. it doesn't matter what's happening in your life, you've got to put the same face on, you've got to be right, you've got to motivate your players. But I felt at that moment that I wasn't able to be the same person, like the day after, just to come back into work. I just couldn't do it. What piece of advice that your mum gave you would you still sort of draw upon now? Yeah, she wasn't really one for one-liners, or the phrase, but the thing I took from her was her work ethic. you know raising five kids on her own um with very limited resources was a few jobs like multiple jobs yeah and it was that kind of so i remember getting up with her in the morning and she'd go to work in a newsagent so that's an early start that's like four in the morning yeah so she's dragging me all right come on we're going and i used to love it you know sitting there with suites and newspapers and all that kind of but i'd do jobs with her and help her set up then she'd come back get the kids ready for school then she'd gone to another job a leather shop selling leather goods and it was just constant and cleaning and it was constantly going from job to job to job and these are you know the odd day when you don't go to school you sort of see it then pick the kids up then cook that and it's like non-stop non-stop but that i think for me looking at that as a as a young lad it's just you can't help but be motivated in some way by seeing what your your mom's going through when you think about the sort of what you've just spoke about with your mom there and you look at those Newcastle fans, and I was coming up here for the last 10 years, obviously I've been coming up here for 25 years playing football, but they were down for a period, obviously it was a difficult time for them.

50:12When you see that sort of happen, because there's a spirit up here, there's a work ethic up here in the North East that's incredible in Newcastle, and you think of those fans now when you see the flags and you see the atmosphere, do you feel that sort of connection to the fans in the sense of that they're giving up their, it's their everything here, isn't it? without a doubt I felt that connection from day one now I think when we came first came to the club you could sort of see the dedication of everybody the camping out at the training ground to see us on our first day you're turning up and you're going people are waiting for us it's like we were getting in at 6.30 and there was loads of it and it's like wow this is people here are crazy for the football club but we needed to try and generate that support in a positive way we needed to try and galvanise that And the biggest compliment I can say to everybody connected with Newcastle since we've been here is every game, home or away, they've just given us so much.

51:06And that feeling that we're stronger together is just so clear here. The crowd is such a powerful force. The people give so much for the football club. They're, to me, so dedicated. And it is. It's a great area to live. I've loved it. But it's football, football, football. Everything's about Newcastle. and I just think it's been a great place to be. Eddie? Do you want to talk about anything else? No. That's great. Brilliant. Thank you so much. Brilliant. Thank you.

51:42That was really good. Thank you. Oh, jeez. It's hot in here, isn't it? It's hot. I must admit that, buddy, it's not just you. I worry about managers. I worry about you. I think you're in at half six and then you're there till six. and then you're going home and you're... It's like anything you get into a rhythm routine. And if you're watching videos, I tell you, that just wrecks your head, that. Do you have glasses yet? Yeah, I should wear them, I don't wear them enough. No, I mean, the last couple of years, just continue looking at screens. You feel a headache there, don't you? You'll get that a lot, Mum.

52:13You'll be watching for hours of video, aren't you? When I'm blinking and I can't actually see anything. No, it's true, honestly. Do you worry about hitting that wall where one day you wake up and think, I can't eat... That's why I think the break was good for me. Yeah, it's just an 18 months off. And to be honest, I wanted it to be longer. Right, okay. You know, I wasn't itching, desperate to get back in because I knew sort of the sacrifices I make when I'm in work. So I was like, no, no. I was putting it off as long as I could. Yeah. But then it got to the point where Duncan and Dean are going, my agent, Dean, is going, you can't get back in soon.

52:45Yeah. If you don't get back in soon, the job you're going to be getting is not what you want it to be. Salford.

52:57We'll be right back.