English Team to Win UCL & Scholes' Best Ever Midfielders | The Overlap Fan Debate

0:00The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today. A mochi moment from Tara, who writes, For years, all my doctor said was eat less and move more, which never worked. But you know what does? The simple eating tips from my nutritionist at Mochi.

0:43And after losing over 30 pounds, I can say you're not just another GLP-1 source. You're a life source. Thanks, Tara. I'm Myra Ameth, founder of Mochi Health. To find your Mochi moment, visit joinmochi.com. Tara is a Mochi member compensated for her story. If you got Man United, they'd beat you home and away. You've just smashed them 3-0. Yeah, they'd beat you home and away in Europe, though. Ruben Amarim's red and white army, mate. I feel like a sportsman for UEFA, dear. I know, I know. You know when I hear people suggesting that maybe we should rest players for a cup competition? I think it's insane.

1:19The injuries that we're faced with, the depleted squad, it is a bit... Don't forget the refs. And the referees. If you did the League Cup and FA Cup at Spurs, you'd have a statue of him outside. Yeah, I built it myself. It did make me cry. It did make me cry. The lawyers are typing right now, mate.

1:43Hello and welcome back to the Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet. On this week's episode, we are going to be hearing from the fans about their European ambitions for the season. But first of all, it's quiz time. So we're going to start this episode with something new. on the show, and it's a new quiz feature called Time Added On. Here's how it works. Each week, one of you will take on the quiz and their total score will be added to the leaderboard with a mystery prize up for grabs come the end of the season. And this season, we're going to start with Rory. Kelsey. I fancy you to do quite well on this.

2:21Like a rabbit in a headlight. It's terrifying, isn't it? You can only lose, really. You're on the spot now, yeah? Yeah. Right. So we're going to go. It's 90 seconds. I'm telling everything, Musco. I'm getting the clock. Right, oh yeah. So it's going to be 90 seconds. You're going to be asked a maximum of 15 questions. All questions are club specific. If I'm mid-question and the time runs out, I will finish that question and take your answer. I've started so I'll finish. You can pass on any, but if you get them wrong, I'll tell you what the right answer is straight away. Nice, mate. To take a bit of your time away.

2:56Got any advice for them, Scorsi? Good luck, mate. Have you done your own work? Right, go on. Who is Chelsea's all-time leading goalscorer? Frank Lampard. How many games did Winston Bogart play for Chelsea? One, nine or none? One. Wrong. Nine. Name two Chelsea managers that have won the Champions League. Roberto Di Matteo Tomasucco. Yeah. Chelsea won the FA Cup in 1997, but what sponsor did they have on the front of their shirts? That would be the cause kit. Yes. Which Danish midfielder scored the goal that secured Champions League football in 2003. Jesper Gronkia. Yeah. Name the four Coles that have played for Chelsea in the Premier League.

3:34Ashley Cole. Joe Cole. Cole Palmer. Does that count?

3:42One more. Centre forward. Centre forward. CC. Carlton Cole. Yes. What famous Harry, Harry J, all-stars song, plays Predator? Yeah. From which club did Chelsea sign Gianfranco Zola? Palmer. Which team influenced Jose Mourinho's first home Premier League defeat in 2014? Jose Mourinho's first defeat. It's Swansea. No, wrong, Sunderland. How many Premier League titles did John Terry win as captain of Chelsea? Four. Five. Which player crossed the ball for Didier Drogba's 2012 Champions League late equaliser? One matter. Yes. How many signings have Chelsea made under Todd Bowley? 33, 39 or 45? 45. 39.

4:29Who did Gus Hiddink replacing his first stint as interim manager? I've started so I'm finished.

4:38Gus Hiddink came in for Roberto Hiddink. Louis Philippe Scalari. I've got a problem with one of those. That's good. We've got a problem with one of those. Oh, yeah, OK, OK. At the moment, he's got eight. He feels he should have nine because he's got a problem. The phrasing of the first defeat in 2014, the first defeat for Jose Mourinho's team, that sounded like it was that season. Which team inflicted Jose Mourinho's first home Premier League defeat in 2014? Yeah. Danny Welbett, that, innit? Sunderland. So that was the first game he'd ever lost a home for Chelsea, wasn't it? The first game that we lost.

5:16He said in the league. Did I say home in the question when I asked it? Oh, you got it wrong. Yeah, it's not like you'd ever appeal a decision. Eight. All right. Thank you. How many questions did we actually get to? No, we got eight out of 30, and we got to the Hiddink one, didn't we? What's going on there, then? You're winning. Yeah, there we go. Stop the count. Sorry Jamie Can we just get in And take the ball away now Oh Who's doing that then What are you following Do you want me whistle Two more camera time for Keith Got wet Yeah He makes more appearance On the overlap Than Gary there

6:13Right so let's get into The European ambitions Of the clubs right now. So, Rory, we'll start with you. You've just done OK in the quiz. Will Chelsea do better in Europe this season than you did in the quiz? Yeah, I think in Europe we should win that competition. It's not necessarily suggesting anything particularly controversial here. We're in a competition that we're too good for. We're in a competition where we're clearly the best team. But I think that that can be extended and it's not necessarily something that we should celebrate. But Premier League clubs should be winning virtually all the competitions that they're in.

6:46The amount of money sloshing around the Premier League is distasteful, but it does lead to a situation where when Aston Villa come up against somebody in the Champions League, not necessarily Bayern Munich, but they're more likely to win the game. You know, in West Ham, we're playing in Europe. Of course they won that competition. They should win that competition. They're playing in Europe's Premier competition. You're comparing basically the money they bring in each year compared to the opposition that they're coming up against basically and the players' transfer fees and wages. And it's not necessarily a good thing.

7:20I think that sometimes, do you know, I had an epiphany where I just thought everything was wrong. Do you know what? I did. I remember it was a couple of years ago and I just thought this, as good as it is and as proud as Brighton should be on the European run that they're in, this result, it popped up on my phone. I just thought that is a microcosm of everything wrong with football. I looked at my phone off the back of a score notification and it came up, Ajax 0, Brighton 2. I was like, it's broken, isn't it? Like, Ajax, you think about what Ajax represent. Think about the history, the glory, the stature, the prestige of that club.

7:52Like, Brighton are too Bob, aren't they? They shouldn't be playing each other. What do you do? You can't help it, can you? That's true, isn't it? I understand where you're coming from. The European giants of the past just can't compete with the money that is going on in the Premier League. And I'm with you, Chelsea should win that competition. But I think we should win that competition every season. The confidence, no matter who's in it, we should win it. And we should be getting to at least, one of our teams should be getting to at least the final of the Europa League when you consider the sums that I spend.

8:28Do you know, it's interesting. If you look at the bookies' odds for who's going to win the Europa League, and if you look at the teams that are in it, there's some huge clubs in there. Manchester United are in there, for example. You know, Tottenham are genuinely the favourites. Doesn't that tell you that it's kind of broken? A team that hasn't won a trophy since 2008, a team that have won two League Cups since 1991... You understand how form works, right? No, but I also understand that Tottenham, all of that to be considered, are favourites for a competition simply because of the money in the Premier League.

8:59It is broken, isn't it? Brighton beating... You've got me a bit arrogant with it, though. I'm not arrogant because I'm not celebrating it. No, I don't mean just you, but I think all of us were a bit arrogant at saying how good the English league is. And we don't really win as much in Europe as we should, do we? I think the United get beat by Sevilla. I mean, in the Champions League, they generally do much better. But other than that... Champions League, we do, yeah. Other than that, yeah. Inter were brilliant against us. Inter were absolutely phenomenal. What an incredibly coach side. I don't buy that they wouldn't be challenging for the title in the Premier League, for example.

9:31I also think, like, when we're in the Europa League, I hate it. Yeah, it's horrible. It just feels like I don't want to be in this competition. And I think a lot of teams like Sevilla and Villarreal, when they're in the Europa League, it's like, this is us. But we're in it for a reason. We're just a bit... We're in it for a reason, aren't we? No, we deserve to be in it. Deserve to be in it. But how we feel about it isn't the same as some of these clubs in Spain and stuff. I don't care about Europa League. But we do, Ed. I know, I wish I wasn't. I think it's only Manchester United fans and Liverpool fans have the luxury of being slightly sneery towards certain competitions because of the rich history that they've got.

10:06Most other fans, I think, and Chelsea have won the European Cup twice. If we're in the Europa League, I'm desperate. Yeah, but look at some of these teams. They're in the Europa League and they rock up with half their recognisable 11 out because they don't rate it as much as getting sixth in the league or something. I love it. And clubs, yeah, of course you do. I love it. What, the Europa League? Yeah. Why? Win it. We're going to win it. You're not going to win it. Why? If you look at it... Second year. If you've got Man United, they beat you home and away. You've just smashed them 3-0. Yeah, they beat you home and away in Europe, though.

10:36Ruben Amarim's red and white army, mate. You need about 12 months to get up to speed, probably. But if you look at the Europa League, it's not especially strong competition this year. You've got Frankfurt, oh, good. You've got Galatasaray, I've got some big names, Ossoffman leading the line. But you think Spurs and Man United need to really have a good shot at winning that? Is that because, I mean, we've always criticised the fact that teams from the Champions League dropped into the Europa League. We always say you should start in one competition and finish, and I get the argument and the sentiment, but the Europa League almost becomes exciting at the quarter-final stage because those teams have dropped in.

11:17You just mentioned certain names there, and it doesn't have that gravitas of the Europa League in the last 10 years or so. Yes, it's exciting for everybody else, but if you're in it, you don't really want the teams dropping down because it makes it suddenly very, very difficult. this is a great opportunity for Spurs to finally have a significant season and a legitimate trophy win because I don't think a League Cup gets the monkey off our backs I think we still get... Oh, it does, of course Do you think it does? I agree So the League Cup isn't a Mickey Mouse competition anymore? No, it's a big competition So if Spurs win it, everyone's going to say we never win anything That's going to be the end of that narrative, yeah?

11:54They didn't have a slumber that time They didn't even celebrate an FA Cup last year If he did the League Cup and FA Cup at Spurs, you'd have a statue of him outside. Yeah, I'd build it myself.

12:09Adam, when you're talking about the feeling of Manchester United being in the Europa League, and I get that, you know, Manchester United, one of the biggest clubs in the world, they're a Champions League, you should be that. Do you think that sort of negativity or feeling around being in the competition means that, you know, you don't go on to win? Because I actually remember there was a season when you were in it with actually Alex Ferguson. I think you played at Lettuce. We got battered by Marcelo Biasa, didn't we? So you played Bilbao. We got hammered, yeah. Yeah, you played Bilbao. I think Oli got to the final, lost to Viro Real.

12:36Did Tenag lose to Seville? Yes. Yes. OK, so what I'm saying is, they're not even like a top European team who've dropped down at the top Europa League teams. Do you think that feeling around is one of the reasons why you haven't gone on to win that competition? I don't know if that extends to the players, because a lot of the players will have higher wages if they're in the Champions League. I don't know if that extends to them, but I'm just talking about how I feel about it, and maybe like then you get the crowds aren't always the same crowds. A lot of people give up their tickets for the Europa League games.

13:03I just feel like we see it as a second rate competition, but we also have to face facts. We're in it for a reason. Like Scolese said, it's our only way into the Champions League this season. And if we have got a new manager coming in, which is obviously going to happen at some point, then he's got a big opportunity to kind of get a trophy in his first season, get us into the Champions League. So next season we can look up. That's the way we're looking at it at the moment, is a pathway into the Champions League because we looked at those earlier. Are we going to finish above Villa, Chelsea? Even if we go on an incredible run, I don't think we're going to do that.

13:33So we have to take it seriously. It's our only way into the Champions League. But I do think that... I just... I don't care. I'd rather be working... I get the impression that European teams take it a bit more seriously than we do. Yeah. For some reason, we see it as detrimental to be playing on a Thursday night in Europa League. Because sometimes they put you on a Saturday evening and you've just played on a Thursday and you think, how is this working out? So you're two... No, it never happens. No, it never happens. It feels like it happens anyway. Maybe because we just lose after them. But you do, you feel, we shouldn't be in the role play.

14:06And even as players, sometimes you mentioned that time with Bilbao, there was definitely a lack of motivation for that competition when you come into it. And honestly, we got hammered by a really good Bilbao team. Did you play before? I was sub actually in both games. It was Pogba versus Herrera in midfield, wasn't it? It was what? It was Pogba Herrera in midfield. Herrera was playing for them. And we had a young Pogba. It was an interesting game. Did it really? Yeah, we got Amager. It was in their old stadium, if you remember. It was some atmosphere. And then they controlled the game at Old Trafford.

14:34Oh, they battled us, yeah. I'd never seen a team... Ajax as well, did it to us? I'd never seen a team so fitting all my life. But it was Bielsa's team. It's what we came used to to Bielsa when they came over to Leeds. They overpowered an overpowered team. But for some reason, I just think them European teams especially, people like you and I, as you say, they take that competition more seriously. with Valencia and Villarreal Sevilla Sevilla won it three out of four years or something I think we see it as a real negative thing in this we always talk about Thursday Sunday don't we we never talk about Wednesday Saturday it's always Thursday Sunday you know that's just sort of the mentality and I always see when you see teams like you're maybe not expected to get into Europe sometimes like just get in there seventh I think I remember Bainley getting in there maybe about seven or eight years ago or something and there's this big big thing about getting into Europe and then as soon as this next season starts they can't wait to get out of it they're like oh Thursday Sunday Thursday Sunday play a week and two and you're like what is the problem but it doesn't seem to listen it doesn't seem to happen so much abroad you see it as a much more prestigious competition because managers can still get sacked even if you win it and I think they have that in their head as well like them finishing higher in the league than having a deeper run in the Europa League isn't beneficial to them I thought that was a massive missed opportunity for United in terms of the manager Ole Gunnar Solskjaer because no one ever really thought he was the real manager as such and I thought losing that final against Unai Emery who completely he'd done them in that final with his substitutions and how he changed was it on penalties in the end yeah you see De Gea now he saved two pens in a game for Fiorentina couldn't save one that day they had about 15 shall we get to the big competition Gareth the big one but you know what I don't like the snobbery about competitions like that one of the best seasons I've ever had as a Liverpool fan is 2001 when we won the UEFA Cup, the League Cup and the FA Cup.

16:23And that was absolutely brilliant. Went to all of those games, went abroad, went to the final, great final against Alivez. And I just think we should try to remove that a little bit from our football culture. It doesn't do as well. Like, you know, it's the look, I said before. I don't think we like it. I think it's just there, isn't it? But it's a cup, though, isn't it? It shouldn't be there, I know. It doesn't make any sense, though. You know, any sneeriness to silverware. It's weird. I'm of an age where Chelsea went 25 years without a trophy. You know when I hear people suggesting that maybe we should rest players for a cup competition?

16:54I think it's insane. My son's a Liverpool fan and he went to the League Cup final last season. The first cup final he's ever been to in his life. He absolutely loved it. He's got the right mentality. Some of my memories of my life are when my dad watching League Cup games. I think it is our mentality. You talk about Marine. When he wins the Chelsea Shield, he counts it as one of his trophies. We were like, no. Did you suggest that it was also apparent in the dressing rooms in which he played? that maybe the players weren't as up for... I don't think you'd openly admit it, but you could see. God, that's fascinating.

17:27The Champions League to Europa League, didn't it? I could understand your Manchester United team in terms of you're so used to being a champion and you end up in this competition. I think you're probably talking about the earlier rounds. Once you get to the semi-final, of course it becomes a huge game. But I'm with Gareth on that. When people talk about... People always say to me, you never won the league. Yeah, of course, we didn't win the league. but then I think it's sort of the trophies that we won but I think of the really good teams where I think we're good teams in the Premier League who haven't won anything I think the Leeds team they have a lot of good players Arsenal right now Tottenham under Pochettino Newcastle's Keegan they didn't even win a League Cup so sometimes when people we all have a bit of banter with each other's clubs and you haven't won this and you haven't won that but it's hard to win trophies the competition's tough so you look at a team like Arsenal right now I think Arsenal are arguably in the top five or six teams in Europe.

18:20You know, there's probably three in the Premier League, the top three in the Premier League, Real Madrid, probably Inter Milan, maybe a Barcelona, Bayern Munich. So there's probably six or seven teams there. But you still haven't won anything like, forget the league, the FA Cup, or, you know, the Carabao Cup. It's not easy to win it. So I think sometimes when you come out, you've picked up a few and you're lucky, you know, you're fortunate to play in a team, you've picked up a few. Never turn your nose up at any trophy at all. Gareth, anyway, can Liverpool win the Champions League? I always think we can, any time that we're in it.

18:54Can I rephrase that? Do you think Liverpool have got more chance of winning the Champions League than the Premier League? Probably because of Man City in the league. They are in the Champions League as well, aren't they? They are in the Champions League. I don't know, but there's something about the fact that it's in Europe somehow. Do you know what I mean? Even at Anfield, there was a debate on a previous one of these shows, a recent one. I think it was a Forrest fan saying, you know, Anfield atmosphere is a myth. And I agree, it's not great at some league games. Europe, though, more often than not, there's just something about it.

19:24There's a spark, there's a buzz. We all love going, we all love going away. There's a huge culture, as you know, Jamie, around going to those away. It's a big fight for the tickets to go to the away, whatever European competition it is. So all that in mind, and the fact that we've got players on the pitch, you've won the thing as well. Why not? the one thing I was saying about Arna Slott before I really sort of knew him if you like and I'd seen what our side looked like under him I was looking at his European record and saying well he's not really got pedigree in the Champions League has he he's done alright in some of the other competitions and got to a final didn't he but I was a little bit worried about that but look how we've done already people said Leipzig was tough we've gone to Leipzig and won AC Milan might not be the force they once were but going to the San Siro and winning not to be sniffed at we've done alright I think it's been a great start I'm not convinced by this league format I don't like that that would take me to something you were talking about before just in general about the general how the change of football it's interesting because I've got a probably slightly different take on it but what I would say is I think I want to say everyone's opinion at the end of it because I think the last three weeks of it I think will be really really exciting when a league table's moving and someone's fighting to get in it's because the thing that I think's hard to get your edge around is when you've played someone and they're playing someone else and that's got nothing to do with it you can't quite go well why aren't I looking at their results and why aren't we playing them again and it's like when we go into a Premier League weekend now any fan of a top team you want at least two of the others to drop something don't you maybe someone gets beat or someone draws you think okay because the league I think we've got to get our edge around it's a league so I was watching we do it the Champions League and I'm watching Real Madrid against Dortmund and I'm saying what a game amazing game but then I'm thinking I should want Real Madrid to get beat because of the league they might not make the top eight and then they'll be in another game but you can't get your head around the fact of group so I think that'll take a while to get your head around that and you don't play them home and away yeah exactly so I think it's getting the way we think going into a Premier League weekend we've probably got to go into that thinking if you're a top team you're probably thinking someone the other ones should win type of thing but I do think the last two or three weeks I think it'll be really exciting going forward in terms of the league format and you think of the league the Premier I feel like the spokesman for you wait for it I know that's right but I think the last the last match day whatever is there eight games now isn't it I think that one you know when we've got the Premier League season the last day and everyone's playing at the same time so everyone's playing at the same time the last one obviously a goal goes in there now they're there and the table's continually sort of moving because there's a lot of top clubs who aren't in the eight at the moment.

22:12And it's funny when you think about Real Madrid, because we were doing it. If they'd have lost to Dortmund, obviously they'd have been three points low, but they're not in the top eight at the moment. And the next two games are AC Milan and Liverpool. So you get to a stage where then AC Milan, let's say we beat them at Anfield and they maybe got a draw against Milan. You're in a situation where like Real Madrid, they've got three games to go and they've got to like, you know what I mean? The table's moving and stuff like that. So I think it might get a little bit better. You might get more into it.

22:40Yeah, we'll see. I mean, I don't know. You know, I'm old, so I can remember Red Star, Belgrade and things like that. Do you know what I mean? When you were talking about Ajax before, it felt more like anyone could emerge from somewhere and win the European Cup in the past. Who was the centre forward for them? Diaco Pancia. Yeah, where did they go afterwards? I don't know. Into Milan.

23:16The market's uncertain. Revenue's tight and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert, right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today. A mochi moment from Tara, who writes, For years, all my doctor said was eat less and move more, which never worked. But you know what does? The simple eating tips from my nutritionist at Mochi.

23:59And after losing over 30 pounds, I can say you're not just another GLP-1 source. You're a life source. Thanks, Tara. I'm Myra Ameth, founder of Mochi Health. To find your Mochi moment, visit joinmochi.com. Tara is a Mochi member compensated for her story.

24:21If you want to know more about the game's greatest characters, matches that change football forever, and the stories behind the bribes, the bans, and the on-pitch battles, listen to It Was What It Was. It's the Overlaps Football History podcast presented by two of the world's best football journalists, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper. Each week we dive deep into the key moments in football history that have shaped the game as we know it. From notorious managers to pivotal matches, we go behind the scenes to bring you the best tales the game has to tell. Stories including one of football's most infamous matchfixes, its first global superstar, or the rise and fall of Sir Alphamsey's England.

24:58Join us at Football University Take a journey through football's amazing history Subscribe to It Was What It Was Now We lose top of the league at the moment Will I make? Three clean sheets in a row Unbeaten If we could play Bayern Munich every week I'd be buzzing We've never lost to them But yeah, it's massive As a fan, I'm a season ticket holder I go to every game Champions League nights You walk into the ground, the air smells differently. It's just elite. And when we played that first game against Bayern Munich, that's where Emery comes into his own. As a fan, you're thinking, oh, God, Bayern Munich, like Musiala, Kane, Gnabry, all these really good players.

25:42But he did a job on them and we defended so well. I think we're a real force in it. It looks like we potentially could get top eight now. We've got three wins, so we've got some tough games to go. But I think we're doing really well in it and I think we're just embracing it and yeah, it's going to be exciting. Going back to what Rory said, because I know Aston Villa have won the European Cup, I'm not daft, but you're probably not seen as one of the elites in Europe because you haven't been in this competition for so long. But the fact that you're in the Premier League, you've got Unai Emery as the manager, the funds you've got to buy plays or the squad that you've created, you know, he's always making changes from the bench.

26:20Do you think you've got an outside chance of going far in this competition? And a little bit to Gareth, more chance of winning that than them in the Premier League. Yeah, I think we've got a great opportunity. Albeit Unai hasn't done it, well, he's got to the semi-final in the Champions League, but he's been smashing the Europa League. So I think that's where his game management and tactically he can come into his own. When he's coming up against top opposition, he's able to find weaknesses and the players are able to fundamentally follow his plan. And that's where we're so good. So, yeah, I think if we can get top eight and then we'll sort of get that two-week game off and then I don't think Villa will be fearing anyone in the Champions League.

27:01Personally, I think our biggest challenge would be if we played an English side in the Champions League. I think that's probably where I'd be more worried. But I think we've beat Bayern Munich. I think we can beat anyone. Did you get a little bit of a bit of taste at the charge of£95 for tickets? Mine's a little bit different because I'm a season ticket older, so mine was£70. so so f*** them no no no no so I mean I thought I thought I thought it was going to be about 65 60 to 65 so when they're charged 70 I thought okay it's not as bad but you know they're paying non-seasonal cold is 98 quid and that's a lot of money and then I think when you've got a family you know so two adults and kids you know that's all mounting up and that's only for one game.

27:50So when you're talking, there's four games. People are having to pick and choose when they could go. And you think from Villa's perspective that it's the first time we're in that competition for over 40 years and fans are having to miss out and go in and watch in your team. It's not good enough. The issue, though, is that this is Villa's chance to maximise revenue. They're having a distinct disadvantage to every other club in the big six. Spurs' revenue is something like between 500 and 600 million. Villa's is around 350. 50. I disagree. I get what you're saying. I don't think it's good. It's a bad thing.

28:23That extra bit of 20 quid does not move the needle at all in terms of bringing a payer in or paying the needle. No, no, I've got you. I've got you. But they've got to maximise from the business side of it this opportunity. I don't think they should. Calm down, Tory. You should love this. I don't think they should, but I think that's the mindset of where the club are at. It's not just the Champions League. The average Premier League game at Villanueva it's over like 70 quid a ticket. I think clubs are kind of trying to capitalise off that. There's a big neutral kind of football crowd now that go to all these games and I think they're trying to capitalise off that and that's why you see people with season tickets if you don't go to a certain amount of games they're like, you can't renew anymore because Man City aren't introducing any new season tickets.

29:10They want that neutral crowd of just people coming in. What the crowd they want is they're not interested in the most loyal fans. They're interested in the fans with the most money. Yeah, who are going to go to the megastore and all that. It's the family who turns up once or twice a season and drops 500 quid in the megastore before the game and then comes back a year later and does it all again. Yeah. They get the 800 quid off me once a year. They're not going to get... They want somebody that comes, that comes, drops that per game three times a season.

29:44Charlene, I want to ask you about Arsenal. Phil, you had a decent run in both competitions in the Premier League and the Champions League last season. I mean, if you had the choice to win one, what would you like to win? Well, Champions League, you know, that's something that we need to win. So ideally, that is, yeah, what I would want to win. But, you know, doing a double would also be great. Why is everyone laughing? Don't you think that's possible? Baby steps. And I do feel like we are really going for it in this competition, you know, from our performances, the way that Mikel Arteta you know the team that he puts out the way that he manages the squad as well so we are really going for it in the Champions League and it'd be great to lift that trophy When I look at I see the English teams who've won the European Cup and the Champions League my feeling when I watch Arsenal in Europe and this even goes back to the Arsene Wenger days when you had a great team and they were competing with United but they were winning the European Cup in 1999 but you were competing with them in the Premier League I think you just even went out in the group stage then I get the feeling that Arsenal almost play smaller in Europe.

30:48I think Liverpool play bigger in Europe. I think Arsenal play smaller. Do you agree with that? Do you think that's fair? Is there a reason for that? I feel like we are pushing now, maybe before we might have, whereas now we are really pushing to try and go for it. So I wouldn't say going forward, that's our plans or that's our objective. We really want to try and fight for everything. So going forward, that's not our ambition, to be smaller. It's to be bigger and to be bolder. I think winning the Premier League has to be your first target, surely. Yeah, I think that is more likely, but we're not losing all hope and faith in the Champions League.

31:23But I feel like it is more likely for us to win the Premier League and I feel like we may have a better chance of winning that as opposed to the Champions League. But don't rule us out. You need to deliver a trophy this year. Do you know what? How are the fans feeling about not winning a trophy? Because I know he won the first one in his first year. That was Emery's team, wasn't it? It wasn't his team really. A while ago now, wasn't it? Yeah, so he's won the FA Cup. He's won two Community Shields. Let's count everything that's been won. And yeah, you know, obviously we do want to be winning trophies.

31:54And Arteta has been there for a number of years. So it's about time he has started to deliver. But for me personally, I am patient. And I want to take into consideration all of the changes that he's made around the club. You know, all of the positive impacts that he's brought in. You know, winning over the fan base. You know, bringing that positive energy, winning over the changing room, which, you know, for a United fan, I'm sure you probably understand the importance of, you know, your players playing for you, which Mikel Arteta gets out of these players and everything. So he's done the foundation works.

32:27He's built those foundations. And now it is time to start bringing in the trophies. You know, I'm hoping and praying it will be the season. But, you know, with the injuries that we're faced with, the depleted squad, it is a bit. Don't forget the refs. And the referees. I put our refereeing decisions, but I feel like a trophy is coming soon. Does Arsenal's poor, almost pitiful record in Europe make any sense to you? They've been brilliant over the years, whether it's John Carew's score, it doesn't matter. They always fall short. I go back to what Gareth said, as Liverpool fans, I think you believe Liverpool come in the Champions League just because they've done it before.

33:06It's nothing to do with slot or the players. You just believe it, and I think it's probably the opposite with Arsenal. probably because you haven't won it before. There's not that real belief. It took City ages to get used to it. Mancini didn't even get out of the group stage. That was as champions of the Premier League. I think, obviously, if you've been there for a long time, like City are relatively new to the competition, you have to learn how to play it. You have to learn the expectations because it's such a different feel, isn't it? I've noticed that as a City fan. The amount of disappointing exits we had against Spurs, against Lyon, against Monaco and so on.

33:34I think Arsenal are going for that as well because it took City a lot of blood and sweat to get there, to win it finally. I think the City though it felt like it was coming didn't it it felt like you'd been progressing I don't really see that with Arsenal yet Time It doesn't help when they used to celebrate Champions League like it was a trophy just for getting there and it probably kind of sums up the mentality of Well we we do work on our mentality I'll say we're quite a mentally strong team No way You know we've got to celebrate all wins you know I mean you guys didn't get top four last season We've got three of those big boys in the trophy back Stephen Pep's last season Would he want the Champions League more than anything?

34:18I think so I actually do think so I think obviously it's been a phenomenal I don't know if it's last season It could extend and we'll find out soon But as it stands There's something about a second Champions League I think it would be the icing on the cake I think as a City fan as well I think I would genuinely prefer that Then obviously five would be insane in a row But another year in the Champions League there's also the added Madrid angle after the blow up with the Ballon d 'Or stuff as well so I don't know if it's going to be easy though if he was sat here with the Ballon d 'Or when they were available, Rodri I'd be a lot more confident but he won us the Champions League and he's not there and Kevin De Bruyne right now I just don't know where he's at his fitness is so up and down and Guardiola doesn't know when he's going to be available look I'm hoping they will be and maybe in January we'll be linked to the likes of Zubin Mendy and so on maybe we'll sign up for midfielder because we're going to need one but right now my head's not in a positive place because of Rodri as simple as that so I think Guardiola look I think he'll want it will we get it?

35:11I don't know until February, March How long would if Pep does leave what would he have done? Would that be eight years he's done? This is his ninth season OK so this is nine seasons you can't be critical of Pep really I mean he's amazing would you be disappointed or do you think he'd be disappointed if he won one Champions League in nine years at Man City who've got more revenue than anyone and he's the best manager in the world Everyone, every time he speaks about it, he doesn't give the impression he would be. I mean, Pep's, he's a serial winner, so maybe deep down he'd want more. But he always talks about how hard it is to win it and how, you know, the Champions League can be decided by a moment.

35:47You know, there's fans and loads of teams here know how much a referee decision can just switch it or a deflection can just knock you out of the Champions League. Because it's a couple of moments, isn't it, really? You know, and I do feel, look, as a fan, no, not even a single criticism, because I understand now, having gone through it, how much it takes to get there. Alex Ferguson Arguably You know Won two in nine years And two in how many years Before that That's the mean It takes a while to learn Cup winner's cup though Yeah But it's one of those things Where like The expectations You want to treble There is nothing We could throw at him As a City fan Absolutely nothing And I wouldn't be surprised Actually I think we'll probably Be more likely to win The Champions League Than the Premier League This year Because I do think That would be the aim For City And Madrid That's three teams Are more likely To win the European Cup Well only one of them's going to do it So we'll see how it goes It's important for the Premier League That he does go though isn't it I would get it You're brilliant You're going to win the league most times Like just go You've done it Do you not think he would be a bit of a race or not Lost Klopp Lost Guardiola He's the best coach the Premier League's ever seen But part of the richness And part of the reason that you love the Premier League so much Is the brilliant characters within it Jürgen Klopp's gone That's a sad loss to the Premier League Yeah no that is I'd be happy for Klopp Yeah but like It just feels like it's cheating because he's so good.

37:07Let's everyone else have another... No, it's cheating. It is cheating. It's cheating because he's good. The lawyers are typing right now, mate. Better for the competition if he's gone. Absolutely, so Arteta can shine. No, we want the best here, don't we? Arteta is one of the best. But he's not the best. Sorry about Gordy, hold on. So you just find a way to beat him and that's the glory of it. Yeah, that's the challenge of it, isn't it? Try and beat him. Look, a lot of teams have struggled, especially in the Premier League, but in the Champions League, teams have found their way. I think Arteta's existence makes him more likely to stay.

37:46I think he loves it. I think he loves playing against Arteta. I think he loves the fact that Slott's now made Liverpool probably a challenger. Not that they weren't before him, but he's come in and kept those standards higher. Pep is motivated by challenge. He's motivated by success. You guys have played with serial winners and they just care about winning full stop. and I think Pep yeah the better teams are around him I think he's more likely to stay I really do believe that show of hands here who do we think will win the Champions League who thinks City will win the Champions League wow I don't know I'm going to City shares I'll say yeah go on then ok who thinks Liverpool will win the Champions League so all the Liverpool have voted for Liverpool all the City voted for who do we think will win the Champions League Real Madrid.

38:34I don't think they'll win it again. Maybe Mbappe coming in. We always think that, but then they just do it. I know, but I just think Mbappe factor. Do you not think eventually he'll settle, though? Because obviously it's been a bit of a... You've got the best two left wingers in the world. You can't play two left wingers. I think he's going to start to play through the middle. And I think eventually he'll... He's playing through the middle now. Yeah, I know. I think eventually he'll get going there. I think it's just a big change for them. Obviously, Jude Bellingham not playing as high up the pitch, so they need to kind of adjust to that.

39:00Vinicius and Rodrigo and all these guys trying to adjust to playing with Mbappe I think once they get that I think Barcelona could be dangerous they've been off the scene for a little while I watched the way it's Bayern Mule and I was like wow I've not seen that in a Barcelona team for a long time so I think they a very young team it's like they are who they are again almost isn't it like Barcelona what you associate with Barcelona exactly you know what Remedys are going to do with this new format they're going to sneak through that qualifying round by the skin of the teeth by that knock and they'll just end up going on and winning, won't they?

39:31I'll win it. Honestly. What a club.

39:40Right, now that we're talking about Europe, Scolzi. I'm scared about this idea. You're a man who's played over 100 games in the Champions League? I think so, yeah, something like that. Yeah, something like that. Something like that. Name the best five players that you played against. Not necessarily the best players in the world, but who you actually came up against and thought, wow, in the Champions League over your years? You've thrown that on me, haven't you? I played against some incredible teams, as you know. I think the different spells of teams, you think of that great Barcelona team. The Real Madrid team, when it was the proper Galacticos.

40:18It's your thinking time, isn't it? Yeah. How long we got? Who else did I say? Real Madrid, Barcelona. Juve in 1998, when we're strong. Right, come on, top five F*** Messi 5-0-1 F***ing, I didn't know That's a rating as well I'll just give you five There's no order Xavi and he has the last two straight away So you've all got three Yes I want to pick midfield players Yeah, but is there anyone who Is not necessarily just a big name It might just be someone you think, wow He surprised you I remember you playing a game against Deportivo Lacaroun and they had players Valorant yeah Valorant yeah Trish Stam was up front yeah I'm trying to think of him I always think look he does get a lot of credit but Clarence Seedorf yeah he'll probably get the recognition but wow is that when we got beat 3-0 San Siro Rooney scored the late one at Old Trafford and you thought it was 1-3-2 Brazilian Real Patrick Hitch I'm trying to think of midfield players that Real Madrid team was unbelievable.

41:26Redondo, again, as a midfield player, was sensational. Ennenberg, still spinning. I know. No Zidane? Ronaldo, Figo, Zidane, yeah. We're up to 10 now. We're up to 10 now. I know, yeah. That's the era we were good at. Imagine that. But do you know what? I'm not saying the era is not as good now, but as many good teams. You agree? Oh, no, no. Turn that back. But when we were trying to win the European Cups or Champions Leagues them teams are just f***ing ridiculous and it's a little bit the same with England you think of the squads we come up against you think of the French squad the Spain squad I think about this when I think about the European Cup now and I think we'd all agree it feels like in the past you'd name four or five teams like Barcelona and you'd go through all the players and we'd say wow but do we say they're not wow now because we think we're the best when you're the best at something are they not looking at the English Premier League and going oh my god they've got in they've got in they've got in or does it feel like the level of football has dropped slightly I sort of play both arguments in my head I think there's overexposure because of social media as well like previously these players were sort of exotic because you didn't see them every single week and now we've seen every goal for Rafinha or the Miniaman we've watched every development there's no mystery there so I think that plays into it big time I'm always like that when the World Cup comes around when you were a kid they'd be exciting to see someone for Brazil but now you're almost critiquing them aren't you rather than praising them what was the difference you mentioned Xavi and the Esther at that level you can see they're amazing players but for you playing against them what was it they were doing you just think these people are different class they never give you time to tackle them do you know what I mean they always know they know where everyone is on the pitch and they know where the opposition are so you think you can get you think you can get to them and before you know it it's gone and all of a sudden you're just running around in circles and circles I think Xavi and Ernesto I think they were different players Xavi was amazing at controlling a game you can't reel Busquets out of that as well he probably doesn't get the credit he deserves because the three of them were so Iniesta was a little bit different because he could go past people Do you think as a not individual as a well not a quartet so a midfield do you think there's ever been a better midfield than Busquets, Xavi and Iniesta?

43:45Beckham, Keane, Scoles, Giggs there's one No Not a chance Not a chance I think that's the best I've ever seen I'm trying to think about Real Madrid. My field with Redondo, McAlealy as well was in that for a bit with Zidane and Figo. You had Casemiro, you had Kroos and you had Modric. I think I'd still go Barcelona one meter. I think the Barcelona one's better. It's sensational, but the Barcelona one's better than that. They made you feel helpless. I remember, obviously, you played in the final in 0-9-11, but just watching them games, we were a great team as well. Arguably the greatest Fergie team, but just watching them just pass us to death.

44:26Painful, yeah. It did make me cry. It didn't make me cry. Scholes, give us the five. Your name's ten. So we go Messi, Xavi, Iniesta. Who's the last two? Zidane. Zidane. I love R9. I know he's set it forward, but Brazilian Ronaldo. That's some five-a-side team, isn't it? Don't need a keeper that far, do you? Yeah, brilliant.