Fan Debate New Season 2023/24

0:00Just because of the three thing and never winning a four, I am going to go Arsenal to win the league The Japanese plan, gone to America. Now, I don't know anything about managing West Ham, but I'm here. It's like Gary and Valencia, though. Oh, here we go! Oh, jeez! I've stayed away from Love Island!

0:21Somebody suggested that the jury was out. The jury's not out. Adam said he was out. Like, the last verdict's in it. The verdict's in it. I'm really, really worried. I'm going to be honest. You haven't ever thought it yet. Why are you laughing? Why are you laughing? Sit down here. On the couch.

0:44Hello and welcome to the Overlap live fan debate brought to you by Skybet. With the new season just days away, I'm delighted to say I'm joined by fans from up and down the country. And helping us decipher and break down the brand new season is the one and only Gary Neville. and Jamie Carragher.

1:14Boys, I have to say, you're both glowing. You've enjoyed your mini-retirements. I got back this morning. Hard life. It wasn't pleasant at Malaga Airport at 6.40. So I'm sure you've been keeping abreast of all the games, everything that's been going on in pre-season. I watched Solford Saturday and I watched United Saturday, which was interesting. I didn't see the game yesterday. All right, so I'll concentrate. Just getting that in there, isn't he? Yeah, I know you were going to throw him under the bus. Now, we've got to start with the last season, the treble winners, Manchester City. You said on this show many times that you didn't want them to win the treble.

1:50No. Has it sunk in? How much did it hurt? And have you got over it? No, I don't. I mean, I think once I went to the cup final, I think once that was over, I felt as though they would do it. Although I thought Inter Milan in the Champions League final did really well but look it doesn't surprise me with what Pep Guardiola has achieved during his managerial career that he's gone on and done it I think that it was going to be him if anybody was going to do it and they're an exceptional team and we'll see how they react this season we won the league the year after the treble but we did there was a dip there was an expectation that we felt as though we probably could go and win the Champions League again and couldn't get to those heights for quite a good few years so it'll be interesting to see how they do take on this year and the transfer window has been okay for them I don't know why they lost Mahrez, but we'll see what happens and whether they can sort of, if you like, climb that mountain like they've done and then go again this year.

2:38We're going to come on to that Mahrez situation in just a little bit. We've got to talk about the charity shield, or as Arsenal fans believe, it's basically the Champions League final for us. What do you make of the charity shield game? Obviously, Arsenal won on penalties. It was deflected goal in the 110th minute. How important are they? You've both played in them. Do they matter for the rest of the season? Listen I think City have lost it three times I don't know if it's three times in a row Or the last three times they've lost it They've gone on to win the league So that's the most important thing It's definitely more important now And the reason I say that is because I think it's foreign managers Because when I was growing up as a kid Or watching games No one was really interested in the charity But when Gerard Houliere came to Liverpool For him it was a trophy And he built it up within the dressing room Mourinho was the same Pep's the same Mikel Arteta and I think it's that I think still being English growing up with the charity Shield it's still a friendly but for other people around the world when these play their similar sort of games I think it's called the Super Cup in Spain it was normally Barcelona Real Madrid it was a massive game I remember Mourinho and Pep Guardiola going for it and the players going at each other over there but in my eyes it's not a trophy but what I do think it means to me is that the mentality of the managers going into their players that every game matters every trophy you go for, you want to win.

3:59And I don't think that's a bad thing. I don't think there's any correlation at all between winning that game and then what happens during the season. I mean, the year we won the treble, I think we lost to Arsenal, was it three or four? I can't remember what it was. We got battered anyway. So I don't think it matters in terms of what's going to happen for the rest of the season. But I think it's a really... Our boss used to say it's the best pre-season friendly you can ever play. Yeah. In terms of preparation for the start of the season. That's the way he used to put it. And he used to say something else at half-time regularly in this game.

4:27you may as well go and lift the trophy it's not so it was never a massive like you have to win it and there's massive pressure on it but you may as well win it if you're there you may as well be the ones that go up and lift it so for Arsenal yesterday it's a good moment but nothing more than that really Taking a bit of shine off it Pippa I thought it was quite respectful I agree though obviously it's a good day out it was a perfect Sunday out but like more importantly it's what happens in the league I feel like it's a mental barrier for Arsenal to finally beat City and that gives them the confidence to go into the season but other than that it's just a good day out and a trophy of course Now, we saw the implementation of some new rules.

4:59I know you love all the new rules that come in. Arsenal scored in the 110th minute of the game. Added time. It's been put in to eliminate time-wasting. Varane's come out and panned it, said that the FA haven't... They've just basically taken the players to a rules meeting and told them it's happening. He says it's not going to help. Already people complain about congestion of fixers, too many games. What do you make of it? I thought Varane's tweet that he sent this morning was quite damning because it was a very calm, sort of calculated, measured analysis of the situation and I didn't watch the game yesterday but I watched Salford on Saturday and I'm coming from an owner's point of view on Saturday we won 2-0 so I'm not an angry owner on Saturday, I'm absolutely delighted there were nine minutes of added time at the end of the game which I couldn't believe, I thought it was probably about four or five, maybe six but it wasn't just that they played three minutes added time on the nine and ended up playing 12 and we're going to see Howard Webb tomorrow aren't we we're doing a piece for the new rules before the Friday night football and it's not right on Saturday on our sort of group text that we have with the lads you know two of them were at the game two of them watching on the link along with me and all of us were on what's going on here this is not right forget me we were in 2-0 so we weren't panicking or anything like that thinking we're going to lose the game I think there will be massive problems with it.

6:23I mean, Pep's obviously reacted after the game, which you would expect. But I think Verans was a very, very calm, measured put-down of this sort of application. And I think they'll change it very quickly. What they've done the first week, it's not just for time-wasting. So it's almost when a goal goes in, I'm stopping it until it starts again. The same with substitution. So they're not time-wasting situations. But in the past, I think a substitution would just be 30 seconds and we get on with the game. Whereas they're actually doing it on the clock. and that, I think, is adding to basically the time-wasting issues that you've got.

6:55The big thing for me is the time-wasting. You're right, it's a lot of time who gets booked for time-wasting. It's always a goalkeeper. Can we have a show of hands here on this? Does anybody think watching football last season in the Premier League, if you all were watching Premier League or some in the Championship, obviously, did anybody else think that they were being short-changed at the end of a game? When you play certain clubs. Hands up if you thought you were being short-changed. That's four out of 20. There's so many times where you see games, and let's say there's five minutes added on at the end.

7:22Someone goes down in the 90th minute and it's still played to the 95th minute even though like two, three minutes of that game has been wasted. You're chasing a result. It is frustrating when that happens and they do need to address, like Jamie says, like maybe not go over the top with 15 minutes added on and all that but when time's wasted, you need to add it on. There's so many teams that just go down, roll around, waste more time, make a substitute in the extra time and it's never addressed. Some of the biggest clubs that are worried about short change and some of the, you know, the lesser clubs...

7:52I wasn't worried. We've scored so many goals in the last minute I didn't need any more minutes. It was four hands that out of about 15 or 20 people that were worried about it. Because it's the Guardian Evil podcast and they're all teddy fans. We went out to the fans part of the Skybet Fan Hope Survey and basically worked out or got a reading of who they think is going to win the league. The results are interesting, some of them. 3 % went for Man United I think you were probably one of five people 3 % 3 % probably one of about five people that voted 5 % said Liverpool 12 % said Arsenal and a massive 74 % went for Man City now Jamie no English club has ever won it four times in a row is it possible is it going to become like the Bundesliga where Bayern 11 years on the bounce well we've added in the past Gary I think won it three times I think Liverpool in the early 80s went at three times and this man City team are the equal.

8:51We can have that debate who's the best team but in terms of they've now got that European Cup and they are one of the great teams that we've ever seen in this country. And I don't know what it is about winning it for the fourth time because it doesn't happen that often. Sometimes there's a team who comes from nowhere and I do think with City the only thing that can stop them is that they're involved in other stuff. going away to that World Club Championship could that have an effect we've both done that you come back, maybe you're a couple of games behind someone when I looked at City yesterday as well I think there's been a myth around City for a long time, that they've got this massive squad, they've never had a massive squad City, they've always had 15 or 16 players who were like top class, who like 4 or 5 would come in and it would be no difference but they've always got two or three kids on the bench even last season we see Cole Palmer come on yesterday and get the goal so there's always been a bit of a myth about the numbers in the squad and if they had a bit of bad luck with injuries one of the big players were out how would they cope with that you know Arsenal look a lot stronger Chelsea and Liverpool look stronger everyone looks stronger but I mean it's Pep Guardiola he's set the bar that high and his teams never normally get lower than sort of 90 points even though I think they won it with 89 last season but I just think it's a big ask for anyone I don't think Arsenal could have run Anymore To close the gap They've shown real intent With the signings that they've made My concern is they're the only team That I look at and think that actually could win the league They obviously fell short last season But with the three signings they've made They're going to be better I look at the other teams and think Who is going to be better than last season Chelsea will be naturally better because of the fact The managers come in They've refined the squad and they couldn't get any worse.

10:42So they're going to be better just naturally. I don't look at Liverpool at the moment and think, wow, they're going to be challenging City for the league or Arsenal for the league. I don't look at United with what they've done so far. So unless United, Chelsea, Liverpool do something miraculous in this next few weeks in the transfer window, Arsenal for me are the only team that I think can challenge City at this moment in time. And I think they could get very close to them, but I still would go City just. but I won't go as strong as that 70 % to 13%. I think it's a lot closer than that, personally, this year.

11:13I think that Arsenal will have the bit right between the teeth and they've got three good signings. Big sleep. Welcome to the overlap. Mr Man sitting up. We've spoken about having those 16, 17 top quality players but you've lost Mahrez, I think, second most assist for you last season. Vardial's come in. Are you happy with what's gone on? Because you've also lost Gundogan as well. You've always got to be happy when you win a treble. So, yeah, I am happy. Yeah, Gundogan and Mahrez, when you look at the goals and the system to bring, obviously Kovacic has came in there. He's not going to hit them kind of numbers.

11:49He's a different player. I'm looking at Phil Foden to come in the middle. I think we've seen it last season. Didn't he start yesterday? No, he didn't. He looked good when he came on, though. I think Phil can hit the Gundogan numbers in the middle. The wide side where Riyad was, I think we need somebody. Guardiola's coming in. I know Pep plays this back four now. We've sent the backs across the back. I think he's a great signing. But I think the big worry from Manchester City is what Gary was saying, a drop-off. You know, when you win a treble, for us fans, it was like a relief. It was like we finally got the Champions League, we've won a treble.

12:22And then you look at a few players and you think, are they going to maybe think, you know, that's a bit different, I've done it now, we've won a treble. I don't think Pep Guardiola will allow that. I don't think his standards will let that drop. I think he's bringing in Guardiola as a young signing. I think he might be one to replace Laporte. I think Kovacic has got the experience. We forget about Real Madrid days and things like that. I think he looks like he's played for City for a while. You know what I mean? He's coming. I think he's overtook Calvin Phillips already. You know, he's coming in.

12:51And I think we need one more signing. But for me, I think a lot of City fans talking to him, we're not going to panic. We usually start the season a bit up and down. We don't usually go and win 10 games at the beginning. and it's the business end of the season when Manchester City get going. That's when the mentality kicks in and Pep sort of does his magic. But I'm just ready for the season. I'm hoping Pep can G him up. You don't want to lose any game and we lost yesterday on penalties. But overall, looking at the transfers he's brought in and that, when you've won a treble, you don't need five or six players.

13:23You just need one or two tweaks. And I think we're the team to beat, but everybody else around us is getting better. Arsenal, like you say, I think Manchester United have got a lot better. The goalkeeping situation, I think, improves them. Chelsea, you know what I mean? So everyone's after us. We're on top of the mountain and everyone's trying to knock us off. So, you know, I'm ready for it. Do you believe that Arsenal are your main competition? Do you believe they're the closest to it? I've tipped Liverpool and I know people were laughing at me in that only because of a mentality point of view near the end.

13:56We've been toe-to-toe with Liverpool a few times and it ain't enjoyable for me or him. That's miserable. Every game you go to You've got to win If you don't win Or You don't enjoy it It's like relief Yeah we've won How's Liverpool got on They've won Oh god we go again We go again And I think that's where Arsenal fell short At the end of the season I think City cranked it up That much I think some of their players Didn't really fancy it They panicked in games With 2-0 up Oh they've got back in it What do we do now Oh right Oh right we chase the game Then they get caught We go 2-0 down at the Etihad The City fans They sort of relax a little bit We know we trust the manager But Liverpool when they get going at Anfield as well and they start on that run, I think they're the only team that are capable of going 10-11 near the end of the season.

14:39And you lose Kyle Walker as well, potentially. Well, I was there. Because that would be a massive loss then. Yeah, well, listen, it's a very, very strong possibility. Pep took him out the other night. There was photographs of just him and Pep dying in Manchester, and it looked like they were having a bit of a heart-to-heart. And I was speaking to some people at City at weekend who were in and around the club, and they said, Kyle's massive, off the pitch as well. you know and I mean this could be one of them things I've done it now at Manchester City I've won the league I've won the treble I want to try something they can't let him go they can't let him go if him, Gundogan and Mahrez go that's a massive hole that and then they're talking about Bernardo which I've been told he's not going to go I mean we've got a month but I don't think Pep wants to lose him I think we do need somebody on the right Cole Palmer came on yesterday as a young kid but over a full season you can't rely on Cole why does Fogler not just play on the right and side off his left foot.

15:29Well, against United last season at all, it was Foden on that side and Grealish on the other side. Outstanding. But he's playing him more central, I think. I think last season, as De Bruyne... I was speaking about this watching the game, yesterday about Foden. He's not young anymore, is he? How is he? 23 now? Is he 20? Is that not young anymore? No, what I'm saying is, three or four years ago, we were saying, this is going to be like the best English player. And it almost feels like Bellingham has become that player where he's, he's the only we build the England team around and Foden can't quite get in the England team he can't quite get in the City team he made the goal yesterday that turn he dropped on the act was unbelievable I don't think he can but you go to like I was thinking Gundogan's left Mahrez has left and then you're playing the Community Shield the week before the season and he still doesn't get in the first 11 and I can't quite work out because we all know how good he is what is it that's sort of stopping him or perhaps maybe slight lack of belief in that he doesn't just put him straight in he played Alvarez behind Haaland These are all positions that Foden could have played, but he still doesn't play them.

16:30I think you hit the nail on the head. I don't think Pep knows where his best position is. We've seen him play left. We've seen him play right. We've seen him play in the middle. We've seen him play a false nine. And he sort of does all right everywhere, but there's nowhere where he really stands out where you think, make that position your own. Like Gary said, Foden on the right would be perfect, but he's playing him inside. Bernardo's out on the right, but Bernardo on the right isn't the best. And then Cole Palmer's come in there. So I still think he's having a bit of a tinker about with it. And I think what you said before about the man sitting miff with the squad, you are right.

17:01But the thing is, there's a lot of players that can play in five or six positions if need be. Not outstanding, but they do a job there. And like you say, with Foden, I think there's no excuse for Phil Foden now. This is his standout season. He's got to shine now. You know what I mean? We've won the treble. And if there is a drop, it's players like Foden. I'm thinking, right, make the position your own. Don't be happy coming off the bench. you're Phil Foden you know what I mean get in there make a statement Kevin De Bruyne last season late on in the season was picking up niggles and injuries Foden should be grabbing that game and saying this is my position now I'm having it or Riyad I'll play on the right show me but he had some good chances yesterday he missed he missed a really good chance he created the goal when he spun on the half way line but I get what you're saying but I'm a Man City supporter and I don't really know where Phil Foden's best position is well as much as I like giving Man City their time in a side after the treble.

17:53You deserve it. We have to touch on some of the other clubs and now this is a chance for maybe one of you to go viral in a few months because it's time for the top six predictor. I'm going to need your top six. Remember, this is going to live on the internet forever. I know. And if you put Man United top, people are going to pan you. I'm not putting Man United top.

18:15Just because of the three thing and never winning a four, I am going to go Arsenal to win the league. Whoa. I'm going to go City... I'm going to go City second. You've just said before in the last answer that City... He's just come back from holiday. Yeah, if I was putting my life in their pussies, but I'm just going to go Arsenal, because I think Arsenal can beat them this year. Arsenal, City, Man United, Liverpool, Chelsea, Villa. OK.

18:48I'll let you decompress after that, Carol. Newcastle and, to be fair, Tottenham. I just think Newcastle Champions League and Tottenham, I'm not quite sure what's going on there. If Kane leaves, you could just go like that. I'll let you know in a bit. We'll come back to you on the next time. I'll go Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Manchester United, Chelsea, Tottenham. Who agrees? Well, listen, Gary was right last season, so I hope you're right again. I think he's given us a charity. City finished 11 points ahead of Liverpool. You were miles wrong on that one. No, but to be fair, Arsenal finished only five points behind in the end, which I think is a hell of an achievement.

19:26And I think the three signings Arsenal have made improved them a lot. And I think City, it'd be difficult for City to improve on last year based on the fact that they've won everything. I just feel like Arsenal really have got, I like Havertz as a player. I think Havertz was underachieving at Chelsea. Arteta has overseen two massive ball jobs in two seasons though maybe that's a part of the fabric of the club that they can't just get over the line I mean look I think he'll come under big pressure if it doesn't go well this season what you're saying there I thought it was interesting yesterday watching the game how wound up Arteta was on the side of the pitch after about 10 minutes I was I love passion we've got Jagen Kopp you love it when he's involved and we all love to see our managers show that but I just thought it was too much 10 minutes, 15 minutes into the community shield.

20:16He got a yellow card himself because he wanted someone booked for pulling his shirt. And I thought, wow. I know, but what I'm saying, he was that incensed this early in the season. It's like, this is a long season, a very long season. They're back in the Champions League. I spoke to a non-league coach and they'd had this sort of briefing pre-season about the sort of touchline behaviour. And they said that Arteta was a big reason that that was brought in from last season's behaviour. Have you got to yell a card after about 15? I think... Where was this when Jürgen Klopp was sprinting down there shouting at referees?

20:50You know, you've got Mourinho doing knee slides. Are you hosting this? Are you going to put an Arsenal shirt on? Do you know what I mean? Carry on, girls, carry on. Yeah, Pippa, it's fine. It's true, though. Pippa, we did a sky bet for our hopes, 47 % of City fans said Arsenal were their biggest rivals. Now, with Timber, Declan Rice, huge sign. It's Kai Havertz. Still, I think the jury's out on Kai from both Chelsea fans and Arsenal fans, but it makes us stronger. Do you believe that we can go again? Because there's big praise from Gary saying that we've got the potential to win, which I didn't expect.

21:25Yeah, I didn't. Before I even answer that question, I've heard of Beyonce's beehive. I've heard of Taylor Swift's Swifties. But Gary Neville's got a whole different breed of fans because when you made that prediction last season, I laughed in your face saying that City were, like, we were bottle of the league. my socials were full of you need to apologise to Gary because he was right you haven't though have you? I'm still waiting for it it's not coming here for it it doesn't need to either I get a lot wrong I feel like I'm always looking forward to a new season actually not always but this season on the back of last season I'm excited to see what we can do we've seen the improvements we've seen the additions to the team Timber looks immense, amazing I didn't see it until after the game I didn't notice at the time that his boot fell off and he still carried on playing.

22:11Like, if that is not what you call heart, I want to play that in my team. And he's fitted in straight away. And Kai Havertz, like you said, the jury's out. I mean, in pre-season, there was a lot of talk about him and he missed, like, he messed up in an MLS game or something like that, but then he scored the next one. I think he needs to give his players time to fit in. Arteta knows what he's doing. I've got trust in Edu and Arteta now. I did it a couple of seasons ago, if I'm on interview. Especially after lockdown, I was like, no, I don't know what's happening there. But what we've seen from this Arsenal team, they've been strong throughout the whole season.

22:38is enough for us to build on. So it all depends what happens when the season starts. We've got some tough fixtures in the first few months. Will you sign a keeper? That was the bit that I saw. Yeah, Raya. That actually really impressed me the other day because I thought Ramsdale did struggle a little bit in the last five or ten games. I actually like Raya at Brentford, so I thought the idea of signing him was again another sort of message that he's not taking what happened last season lightly. The things that cost him a problem, there were minor details that cost him a problem a problem in the last 10 games.

23:10But Ramsdale was one of those issues in that last 10 games. He was erratic, and you can't have that in 10 games. With a keeper 10 games to go, you cannot have an erratic goalkeeper. The thing with Arsenal is, I think last season, they were seen as this young, up-and-coming team. Most people probably felt City would do it towards the end, the experience, things like that. And I think even when you fell away, yeah, you might get things on social media. But I think in the May, most people thought, what a great season Arsenal have had. But what Arsenal have done in the summer makes them better. but I think this idea now that keeps getting put out there that young Arsenal team don't spend the money that City do Arsenal have spent an unbelievable amount of money in the last two or three years so I think we've got to come away from that, there should be a lot expected on them not that they should win the league but they should be going for every trophy and it should be if they don't quite get over the line in the league like last season or a big cup final they should be criticised for that because I think we should expect a lot more from Arsenal this season because as I said yes Arteta has done a brilliant job but there's been a lot of finance here as well I think it's a bit of a risk he's one of the top earners there he's a good footballer I think he'll fit him better at Arsenal I don't think there's been that much time I mean Gary's saying he could be a difference between you winning the league I think he's possibly been talking about playing in the number eight Arsenal's midfield automatically becomes a lot weaker when he made it yeah I mean he's been broken playing that number eight role as well to be fair Once he's at his full fitness again.

24:35Are you sorry? Smith-Rowe. Oh, OK. Yeah, that's not that work either, is it? It could. I just looked at Arsenal's front line of Martinelli, Saka, Smith-Rowe, Odegaard, Jesus, Havertz. They all have a profile. Pardon? Enketiah. Enketiah. They're all mobile. They can all play across the front. I think Havertz is a very good player. I think at Arsenal he'd be a lot better than he was at Chelsea. I think he's more suited to the way Arsenal play. Is he better than Odegaard in the 10-0? Is he an out-and-out striker that's going to win you the league? No. There's talk about him playing eight, possibly replacing Zaka in there.

25:11I can't see you. I was surprised that Pochettino let him go. I thought he would want to work with him. Why do you think the jury's out on Havertz? He's not out with him for me. No, did you say the jury's still out on Havertz? Yeah, well, it is. Why is it out? We've seen him for three years. Why is he still out? Hey, roaring. He's seen himself. He's not out for Chelsea. Because the jury's made his mind up. If the jury wasn't out, he was him. He wasn't a disaster at Chelsea. He's one of those players where he'd done all right. He did okay. That's not true. That's not true. He didn't do all right.

25:42He was a really bad player for us. It really didn't work for him. That's why we sold him. To say the jury's out. He was just saying he was good. No, no. Sorry, I said... No, the opposite. I think somebody suggested that the jury was out. The jury's not out. Adam said he was out. Verdict's in. Verdict's in. He's gone. We desperately needed rid of him. I don't think he was a disastrous signing. He did score the win for you in the Champions League final. He did. I mean, Mishibach... He can't put him in a disaster. That can happen, can't it? Mishibach won for that many people. He scored a goal first we won the league.

26:16What I'm saying is, he wasn't one of those signings where you looked at like a vain. He just got a total disaster. You've got to get him out of the club straight away. He was a young player. He came in. You're not quite sure what his position is. I'm not saying it's a great signing for Arsenal, by the way. I'm still a bit, where's he going to fit in? For him to be a successor at Arsenal, he's got to go higher than the performances he saw for Chelsea. But I don't think he was a disaster for Chelsea. He was one of those where you're thinking, can someone get more out of him? Can he play in a certain position to get more out of him?

26:42He never smashed him at Chelsea. No, he was one of the most waiveful strikers I think we've ever seen. But is he a striker? For me, he's not a striker. He's not a striker. He was playing as a false nine for Tuchel. And he wasn't really a striker. That's my point with Arsenal. Where does he actually play? He played up front, yesterday. He's not a centre-forward. It's whether he could play in that position where Grand-Jacques played last season, if he's been moved on, that's where I think he'd be perfect. That's reimagining him altogether. That's making him a mid-field. He's not a centre-forward.

27:09He broke from mid-field. He's not a centre-forward. I'd stick him up front. I wouldn't think there was a stat last year. He's not a centre-forward. You said about the most wasteful striker. I think there was a stat that he missed the most chances. It was ridiculous. He missed two big ones yesterday, didn't he? But I think there's an element of it. How old is he now, Havertz, by the way? I don't even know. He's not old. you're hoping what was about Darwin Nunes before that you think there's going to be that potential Rashford for instance had seasons where he was sort of like 10s, 9s, 12s all of a sudden you're expecting that that player might just Ronaldo did it for four years at United he's not going to do that he's not that type of player he was never a centre forward when he came from Leipzig I think he can get to 15 to 20 goals I think in the right team he can get to 15 to 20 goals so for me you're hoping that that 8 goals 9 goals all of a sudden those missed chances if he's getting them all the time, that confidence comes, that calmness and surety, and all of a sudden it goes from nine to 18.

28:03Then you talk about a major player. Was he that bad at Chelsea? Yeah, he was bad. I mean, people will always flag the goal in the European Cup final. So don't get me wrong, he's etched in Chelsea folklore forever and we'll be eternally grateful for what happened in Portugal. You don't sound it, are you? Scoring a huge, iconic goal doesn't make you a very good player for the club. It doesn't change who you've been for the club for three years. and it certainly doesn't make you a statement signing for a team hoping to win the Premier League. You're going viral again. Yeah, absolutely. I can't wait for it.

28:34This is the more exciting special. I'll probably put the kiss of death on it. Talking of statement signings out of Anana, I know the jury's, some people love him, some people hate him. Makes you a better team, right? I think he immediately makes a better team. I think we saw with the goal that Lanz scored at Old Trafford on Saturday that there's going to be a few squeaky moments and the defenders need to learn that if you give the ball away, he's going to be off his line, do you know what I mean? So I think we have to get used to him. I think we're going to be squeaky. I think there'll be days when we're longing for David De Gea to kick it out for a throw-in again.

29:08But I think ultimately it'll be a huge positive to the team. I think we've seen some of the distribution of the ball already, just fizzing it out to the full-backs. I know it's just simple things, but so many times David De Gea will get on the ball, go to play it, go to play it. Defenders and full-backs are like, where am I going? Am I going forward? Am I coming back? Don't know where to go. and then the move just breaks down and the team slows down again. So I think Anano will immediately bring that. And what I've been impressed with him the most is his attitude and his character. He seems to be a Man United player.

29:37So even if he does make a mistake, I feel like he's got the backbone, the character and the personality to be able to just go, I've made a mistake, I'll move on with it and get stuck in. You've seen him getting stuck into his teammates when they were making mistakes and stuff in pre-season. I love him at the moment. Isn't that not a risky job? If you're a keeper that takes massive risk, gets lobbed from 55 yards, and then you're berating your centre-half, is that good for two more half? Those two things never happened in the same instance. He never got lobbed and then berated his defenders. I'm just saying, is this what you want?

30:08No, I mean, I know what you're saying about that. I mean, I used to think if you're going to hand it out on the pitch regularly, and there were only one or two players that I played with that ever did, you can't make mistakes yourself. You can't. That goal wasn't a mistake from him. It was DeLoe who gave the ball. No, I didn't think it was a mistake on Saturday, to be fair. I'm just saying, if you're going to actually berate your players on the pitch publicly, which I say I only played with one or two players that ever did, regularly, I mean, you better be very good and not make a lot of mistakes yourself because they're going to start going back for you.

30:35I do think Manchester United needed to change goalkeepers. It got to the point, I think the cup final was the final straw. I think the reason that Manchester United were a little bit disingenuous towards De Gea and it was a bad ending, really, in terms of what he'd done for the club. But I think they had to do it in terms of being hard because I think they'd committed probably a little bit too early. He'd done well during the season to an extent, but I think the cup final was just like, hang on a minute, that can't go in your net. And there was that statement, that can't go in your net, and it had happened too many times.

31:04So I think the distribution, along with the fact that there was shots starting to go in that really shouldn't have gone in, they had to make that call. And I think it was a harsh one, but they had to do it to him. And look, Manchester United, I've said it before, I think it's the toughest position. I think in Premier League football he's Manchester United's goalkeeper people in this room may disagree with that may think it's bias you come under more scrutiny than any other player in English football I think if you're a United goalkeeper so I wish him all the best because he's going to need that personality and that character because people will get on to him every media organisation every pundit every fan from every other club if he does make a mistake or two you know what's going to happen at every single occasion and I think the lad at the other end Hoyland as well sent a forward to Manchester United I think that's the second most.

31:49I think they're the two positions that you're going to get put under most scrutiny and they're the two ones that have to settle in. The reason I'm a bit nervous about United's season is you've got these two unknowns at either end of the pitch in two focal positions that really have to hit it off for Manchester United to be better than last season. I think the beauty with Hoyland is we don't have to... I think we'll see Marcus Rashford go through the middle earlier this season and then maybe Garnaccio because Garnaccio for me is looking... But he doesn't like playing there though. I spoke to him a few weeks ago, he was categoric.

32:18I play off the left. He's obviously not going to play there, obviously, but he wants to play off the left. I think that's obviously the ideal choice for him. But in the early season, I think Hoyland's injured as well at the moment. He's arrived injured, which don't help. But I think, yeah, once we get started with the season, I think he'll be rash for through the middle. You scored the lowest amount of goals in the top six, 58 goals. You need... Josh, the real answer here is that, to be fair, Eriton Haag wanted two centre-forwards. He wanted the young one to back up Harry Kane. He needed two centre forwards.

32:49He needs two centre forwards. Because, you know, Martial could probably leave or he'll become unpredictable like he has been. Rashford definitely wants to play on the left. So we haven't actually got a centre forward. France United do not have a centre forward. Why haven't he gone for Harry Kane? Why haven't he gone for Kane? You don't want it. You don't want it. You can't go for a player that's bottled it and he hasn't got the balls to say, I want to leave spurts. Every season he does the same thing. I disagree with Adam. He tried that on the overlap two years ago. and it didn't work out that well for him.

33:18So I think this time he's probably doing it in a different way, but behind the scenes. Man, you haven't gone for him, because you can't deal with Daniel Lever like Bayern Munich aren't now. A Man United who needs a centre-forward can't be going to the last minute of the window, and then you don't get him, and then you're left over. To be fair, that's what we've done. I'm hoping that watching what's happening, that seeing that an£86 million deal might get agreed with Bayern Munich, and Kane goes, I ain't going. I don't think, I might be wrong here, I have no idea, I've no contact with Harry Kane whatsoever.

33:45I'll be stunned if Harry Kane goes to Bayern Munich. If he doesn't want to break that Premier League goal-scoring record, I'll be absolutely stunned if he goes to Bayern. And Bayern Munich are a huge club, by the way. But I just don't see that at all. As a striker, is it that important when you've already got the Tottenham's goal-scoring record? It's a massive forum. People keep talking about Harry Kane and trophies. What if Harry Kane goes to Bayern Munich and wins the Bundesliga? Who cares? He'll care. He'll care. He won't. I agree with him. Personal pride. They win the Bundesliga. There'll be a lot of record in the Champions League.

34:18No one can take your trophies. I'll tell you why. I saw an interview with Alan Shearer the other day. I thought this anyway. Yeah. But Alan Shearer got asked, the Premier League record goal scorer or the Premier League with Blackburn and he just said, my job is to score goals. Yeah. That was his answer. I don't care what you say. Lineker, the three greatest goal scorers in English, sort of, let's say the last 30, 40 years. Lineker hardly won a trophy. Shearer hardly won anything. Wouldn't want to. It's easy to say that when you won one trophy, though. And Harry Kane has not won a trophy. Harry Kane, for me, why are we all desperate for him to go?

34:49He's the one to win something. He's one of a player and a goal scorer. The greatest thing is, everyone's torn out and going to Bayern Munich. He's one of the best players we've ever seen in the Premier League. Why do we want him to go? Can he not do both? Stay at Tottenham. And if he can go on a three to United or City, wherever he can go, do that. I wouldn't look into Bayern Munich. But coming back to it, coming back to it to United. United I hope they're being clever and I hope Kane's being clever and that they're waiting to get a deal whereby they agree with Munich he then says no I'm not going and I want to go to United because United need Harry Kane right they still need the young lad as well to back him up and let him bed in and play his 25-30 games he didn't play every game for Atalanta last season so I'm worried that we've got this kid up front who to be fair has got massive pressure on his shoulders that everyone's going to be watching him he needs that pressure taking off him a little bit Kane puts United into that sort of realms of catching Arsenal and City that's what I think he does to Manchester United United have just spent 72 million pounds on an injured centre forward he scored nine goals in Serie A last season are we sure they're going to be clever in the transfer market that doesn't really feel but my point is if that's someone that they're going for for the future and think that's going to be the sort of next big thing fair enough but they need someone right here right now how much does he spend on Nunes?

36:0260 yards but he's played 100 senior appearance 60 yards 90 on it exactly He's got about 20 on top prices and take 20 off. Is that a scout? He paid half money. That's 98. 150 million, what? Harry Kane, Jake, United. Harry Kane put United in a title race. Absolutely. 30 goals. I've said this for three years. Harry Kane, Sancho, Varane, he calls the titles, doesn't he? Honestly, Harry Kane... You don't think so, though. Harry Kane puts Manchester United right in there with City and Arsenal. Do you know what? I'm hearing that Bayern Munich, Tottenham have just rejected 100 million euros for Harry Kane.

36:50Is that fair? Do you know why they're rejecting it? Because they know he's not going to go. I swear to you, Daniel Levy is caught. I think he's going on holiday to Miami for two weeks. Daniel Levy sat there thinking, the minute I accept... Harry Kane wants them to believe that he'll accept that money. He accepts the€100 million. Harry Kane says, no, I don't want to go there, but I'll go there for€100 million. Do you think that he's thinking, really thinking? Yes. Levy is definitely thinking that Harry Kane's not going to go to Munich unless he accepts it. We've seen what he did with Modric before.

37:17He don't care, really. He wasn't going to lose him on a free, though. OK. Now, flat on Spurs. Happy with Bostokoglu. It's a sea change from what you have. Oh, yeah, it's massive. I don't think you'll find a Spurs fan out there that ain't happy with Bostokoglu being in the club. Before, if you had a choice of all of the names that we were linked with, Nolesman, Tuchel, all the others, Pochettino, we probably wouldn't have put Postacoglu above them, but right now, yeah, we're ecstatic. And part of that is just how he's handling the football club. He's taking responsibility. There was a case in point where he was talking about Lo Celso.

37:50We spoke to someone in Spain. Apparently, Lo Celso wants to go back to... or Villareal were looking at him. And he said, you don't have to go to Spain. I'm right here. Ask me the question about Lo Celso. I like him. I want him to be a part of the squad. That blunt honesty, and it wasn't even blunt honesty. It's just a normal thing for a normal human being to say. with Conte it was just you haven't picked apart what he's saying why does he mean it why does he hate us so much like and you're working you're working so hard to work out what he actually means with Poster Coglu he just says what he means and um and so for that reason we're excited the other thing is the brand of football he plays that he has played wherever he's gone um we've been crying out for that for a long time weirdly if Harry Kane is to leave now is probably the time because we probably will make up some of the goals lost by our style of play The fence is another issue.

38:35We need to sign two top-quality, very quick centre-backs in order to compensate for how attacking this team will be next year. But overall, really positive. And the fact that the vast majority of fans are, they're not picking us for top four, top six. A lot of people are saying we're not even a top six club anymore. I think it will actually help us because we'll just be able to get on with the season. No European football, you know, cup competitions that we never win anyway. So just concentrate on the Premier League. you'll be able to get on with finishing 8th and Rory now from one new manager to another close your ears for Pochettino, Rory yeah well I think he's conducting himself really well I'm like delighted with what's happened I can't believe it really I think our pre-season has been pretty much perfect you can see what he's doing already I think you can see that he's embraced what's been sent from him from above but I mean ownership rather than God like you know Chelsea have this policy now of really going for young, vibrant talent and maybe doing that to the detriment of the experience in the team, which I think could be quite weird.

39:43I was looking at the ages of the squad and Ben Chilwell is now one of our more senior players, which is weird and potentially risky, but I like it. I think that there's this real young, youthful hunger in the squad. There's a desire that's back and if you look at what Arsenal did last year, I thought they were exceptional, weren't they? They were the youngest team in the league. So I can't believe it because Pochettino is far too top of me at the time. And I didn't really think that it would work. And I was really worried. And I can't say that many things this ownership of doing are inspiring me and don't shine with me in terms of the direction I want our club to go in.

40:19But the pre-season had been great. And I'm more optimistic now than I think I've been for a while. You said the desires back. Is that just by watching pre-season again? Because Chelsea were an absolute disgrace at the end of last season. in terms of the players, the performance they gave, the effort they were given. How can you say the desires back? Pre-season. There is an energy that Chelsea are playing with in this Premier League series that took place in the States. Chelsea won. I know it's irrelevant, but Chelsea did win it. I'm not claiming that. I did not make that a thing. Just factually passing that information on.

40:51But we played and there was an energy and an enthusiasm. And you know, certain players at the club over recent years, they've felt slightly like mercenaries. And maybe not through any fault of their own. I'm not judging players for trying to earn as much money as possible, maybe not caring about the club. You know that Aubameyang doesn't care about Chelsea. You know that Khalidou Koulibaly doesn't care about Chelsea. That's what we were dealing with last year. Whereas the players that are playing now, you look at maybe Ian Mattson, you look at maybe Carney Chukwamaka, it feels like they're there for the project, for the club and for the badge on their shirt.

41:25And to be totally honest, that's enough. For us, I think, you know, obviously the clubs that you two played for, I think there is sometimes an expectation to win silverware. And while that is the case of modern Chelsea, I think a lot of Chelsea fans, particularly of a certain age, it's just fight for the badge, fight for the club. And I think this crop of players, the way that Pochettino's setting up, I think it's really happening. So, yeah, it's born out of pre-season. It's born out of the players that are coming in as well. But, yeah, I'm feeling mildly optimistic. I think he's a class act. At the time when it was Ten Hag and Pochettino for United, because I know Pochettino reasonably well, I would have said go for him, but I think Ten Hag's done a brilliant job.

42:08I think he'll do an outstanding job at Chelsea. He's class, he will not carry any dead wood, he'll get rid of them. If you don't see that desire that you're talking about, he likes young players, he likes players he can mould, he likes players who does what he wants to do. He's done this at Tottenham before where he's got rid of a squad that was ageing, He had some poor characters in there. He got rid of them inside six to 12 months and turned them into the hardest running, along with Klopp's Liverpool team in the country. And he'll do exactly the same at Chelsea. That's happening already. That's what's happening on pre-season.

42:36We've looked so aggressive and so lively. It's just nice to see the team playing with that urgency, particularly when you factor in how poor we were at the end of last year. When the players did, I'm convinced that they downed. Yeah, I'm convinced that that's what happened. When Pochettino went to PSG, it was deemed that that was something that should be a negative on his CV and that you shouldn't touch him after that. I thought it was the other way. No one really succeeds there. If you watched his PSG team, when he had Mbappe, Neymar and Messi up front, they were an absolute joke, really. They were so far away from being a Pochettino team, yet he'll have had experiences of what not to do, of how these star players that he had to try and deal with.

43:16I feel like he'll be so much better off the back of that than he would have been before he went when he was at Tottenham and he had to be fair, a group of players were all with him. He's a better manager now, having been through that experience at PSG, than he is the one that went before he went to PSG, in my opinion. I think the one thing that would be different here is that, compared to Tottenham, a little bit like Arsenal last season, because he'd done such a great job bringing young players through, everyone loved the football, even when they just missed out on a cup final or the league, it was almost, there wasn't too much criticism flying about.

43:44You've just said that our two clubs are sort of brought up on winning trophies, but I think that's been Chelsea for the last 10 or 15 years. Forget the footballers, we'll change managers left, right and centre. We want to win and it's been a winning machine and I've got great respect for it. I'm not saying this season, I don't think you'll quite make the top four this season but I think over the next couple of years there will be questions asked of Pochettino that have not been asked before in terms of, certainly in the Premier League, maybe a PSG in terms of the Champions League but that's where I think the pressure will crank up on what we want him to produce because he's put in a bracket in terms of managers as one of the top managers without sort of winning maybe what Klopp's on the Champions League, Guardiola.

44:25Do you know what I mean? He's sort of put up there and hasn't quite got the trophies to sort of back it up, even though I'm a massive fan. Yeah, he's seen as being an elite manager, I think. I think he's seen in that category. But this year, I do feel like, within reason, of course, I feel like he's got a bit of a free hit because the squad is so young. It's seen as being, I mean, look, the way that the club's being run from the top, it's wild, isn't it? Like, we got rid of 12 players this window and we're still bloated. Like, that's wild. He will provide it as, he'll be a shield for those owners, just as Klopp has been at Liverpool.

44:56I hope not, I really hope that's not the case. I really don't want that. But he will be, because what those owners need is someone, to be fair, to front the club. Your manager is doing interviews three, four times a week, pre - and post-match, two, three games a week. So, a minimum of four interviews a week, usually six. He speaks well, everyone trusts him, fans like him, Opposition players and coaches like him. So he's going to be a very good front for the owners. The owners can sort of slip into the background and continue with whatever they're doing. He'll be a good front for them in that sense.

45:24I think they've made a smart choice. One thing the owners said when they first came in was that they wanted to go long-term. They wanted to change the model. I actually believe they believed that. I think they wanted to do that. So when they named Graham Potter and they wanted the seven-year project, I think they had intent to do that, but it's just gone badly wrong. I think that Pochettino can deliver their vision of being there for four or five years and delivering really solid performance and bringing young players through, generating players from the academy, I think he can be their solution, if you like.

45:53He can be the answer to their problems. I think he is the answer, but I also think that they could be the problem. Like, did you see towards the end of last year, when they were going in the dressing room, presumably... He won't accept that. He won't accept that. He would never... Honestly, if they start popping up in the dressing room, they'll be out there in five seconds. Honestly, he will not accept that. Yeah, and I think that's important because the way that the club is being run, certain things, like these are non-football things, but certain things that the club are doing, really not in keeping with the traditions of football, let alone Chelsea.

46:20But he's smart enough to manage up correctly as well. You remember, he managed Daniel Levy over the last 15 years as well as anybody has. So he's been at Paris Saint-Germain, where he's obviously got ownership as well, and you're really influential. He can manage up that way, no problem whatsoever. So I think he'll keep them exactly where he wants them. He'll probably tell them, I'll come and see you 25 minutes after the game every single week and have a cup of tea with you and I'll take you through exactly what happened. and he'll involve them. He won't be stupid enough to sort of cut them off and say, you get over there.

46:47He won't do it that way like Conte tried maybe at sort of Tottenham. He will definitely collaborate with them, I think. Absolutely. Top five, Josh. That's what we're dreaming. Top five. Well, on the proviso that fifth gets Champions League. We've got to get on to Liverpool now. Two very influential players have left. You've got Bilner and Henderson. Are you going to be a better team? You haven't got Kai Stelhoff. You need improvements, I think, across the board. Yeah, look, Liverpool look scintillating in attack from what I've seen on pre-season. I don't think there's a club in the league that have got that level of quality across the front line that Liverpool have, maybe a bit of its potential.

47:29But the midfield, yeah, I just thought that the rebuild, as it were, that was touted, was they need to rebuild the midfield and maybe look at the defence a little bit. It would be ideal if you could do both. And it was taken along brilliant. I think McAllister's a brilliant certainly looks like he's fitted in perfectly already Sobber's Lie was a bit of one that kind of developed it opened up that was a real kind of stolen march on other clubs getting in looks like he's got great potential and then you're thinking go and get a six and if you can keep Fabinho get a back up six get someone to learn off him great that's your midfield rebuild pretty much done maybe one more would be great but you can get on with that and then they've sold losing Milner as well that's basically the three guys who played DM for Liverpool have all left the club and Klopp said we don't have a proven one there and that's mad you know because this is a huge season for what they want to do I think fan kind of discomfort is on the rise a little bit I think there's plenty to be optimistic about I think they could well score the way out of all kinds of problems Where's the discomfort?

48:27I think because in terms of just overall feeling about Liverpool's chances so you know we've when we change system at the back end of the season it looked like they'd not covered up all the problems, but got them playing again. Everyone looked to be pulling in the right direction. Trent looked like he'd finally become the player that we all know he can be, back to that kind of level. And yeah, we look like Liverpool, again, having had an absolute dour campaign where half the players, we were on here countless times saying what's up with Liverpool. You couldn't figure out whether it was psychological, physiological, all of those.

49:01Felt like we turned the corner. End the season optimistically and you're thinking, okay, do that rebuild, put some fresh legs in there and go again. But right now, Again, we're about to start a campaign with Curtis Jones playing in the six for Liverpool. I think he's a terrific footballer. I think he gets so underrated. I think he's got a really high ceiling. But he's played one professional game of football, a senior level football as a six. But this goes back to last summer. So when you think of last summer, Liverpool didn't buy a midfield player, right? So then everyone's another 12 minutes older.

49:31So everyone's talking about this one's gone, that one's gone, this one. It was right for them to go. It was right for James Milner to go. Oxlade, Chamberlain, Keiter. You're getting offered money, massive money from Sarri, Reva, Fabinho and Jordan Henderson, who looked like the legs had completely gone last season. Jordan Henderson's 33, Fabinho you're not quite sure. So because they didn't get anyone last summer who was, say, 23, 24, 24, you'd end up in a situation where all players were old, coming to the end of their career, some of them great players for Liverpool, you left basically, we're almost not in there.

50:05So this thing about who they're going to buy in defensive midfield, do you think they should have kept one of those players if they didn't have someone lined up? Because they've won the lottery in terms of the money they've received for those two players, got them off the wage bill because it looked like at times last season that there was nothing left there. But to let the two of them go and not have someone set up, and to be clear to Liverpool, Liverpool and the transfer market for the last five or six years, they're clinical. They normally just bang and it's done. There's no talk about something happening.

50:35It just gets done and it gets announced the next day. They've left themselves short and someone's made that decision. somebody's gone because you know with Jordan Henderson they went back and forth they wanted to get a fee eventually get a fee they took him on the pre-season tour to the training camp to Germany and I don't know but it wouldn't shock me if Klopp was having a word going is there any way you can stick around for another year and this that didn't happen with Fabinho they went 40 million great that's his price but you're right these transfers dragged on a bit didn't they so it wasn't like they were sold the next day and you left like that it felt like the Henderson the Fabinho deals dragged on for two or three weeks and my problem with bringing Lavia in is people keep saying he's too young to be the whole midfield player for Liverpool for the Premier League to play all season so you need to bring someone else in as well how does that work?

51:16if you're paying 50 or 60 million quid for a 19 year old kid and then you go and pay 50 or 60 million for someone who's 26 so what you're basically saying in 12 months time Lavi will be ready what do you do with the other fella? Yeah I know just get the proper one right now Sycedo yes you might think Sycedo's overpriced I get that but Liverpool got massively Fabinho on Henderson were massively overpriced So you've won on that side You might have to pay a bit extra This side Just do it I think with Liverpool And I've said this And it is coming this moment The last two years Chelsea have spent huge Arsenal have spent huge United have spent huge City to be fair A city And I think it's caught them out It's caught the owners out They haven't got The money to be able to compete I think it's shocked them The market You know The Bellingham deal 100 odd million Rice 100 odd million Fernandes 100 million Casido 100 million I think they're at that 50-60 and they're comfortable there but I think they're at that point whereby they've hit the ceiling at a lower level than the other four or five clubs are at and it's going to come and hit them like a ton of bricks at some point because the manager at some point is going to wake up in the morning and go because he's shielding them there's no doubt he's doing an unbelievable job he's done the best job of anybody I believe in the last seven or eight years with the budget that he's had and the spend that he's had but he can't keep doing it he can't keep doing it he needs that money to be able to compete they should just be going and getting Casado now for him and saying, right, there you go, that's dealt with and sorted, it's 100 million, but they're not, they're trying to pinch someone off Southampton for 40 million quid, he was a good player, don't get me wrong, but that's, Jurgen Klopp needs the real deal, because if you're talking about what you were talking about before, about challenging Manchester City, they can't do it with a player that's got potential, they need to do it with a player that's real, and I do think it's going to come back on the owners at some point, I know they're building the stadium, and they had to do that, because the Anfield had fallen so far behind, so they're left with no choice, and that is driving revenue, and it will pay itself off, but they're not investing in the team at the levels the other four or five teams are.

53:07They're just not. This goes back to that discomfort thing. This is just a massive season. In terms of the ownership, in terms of Jürgen Klopp, because if they have another season like this, this is why it doesn't make sense. This is why it's mad. Because people can critique Liverpool's ownership and say they don't spend enough on their skimflints or whatever. And look, they're not free-spending owners. It's a self-sustaining model. That probably looks a bit antiquated now all of a sudden in a world where there's even more football clubs you can spend bottomless amounts of money. but that's the nature of the playing field now it is what it is if Liverpool have another season when you get to the Europa League I mean you've been through those Liverpool teams where Liverpool had Champions League quality players and Champions League wages playing Europa League football you'll do a season and then there's a conversation most of them are not sticking around for two seasons in the Europa League that's not going to happen and then all of a sudden your players are getting their heads turned and the good ones that you can rely on who are the right age who are supposedly brought into your total project they're getting poached from left, right and centre and you've missed your chance, Liverpool have got a one-season opportunity here to get themselves back into that mix and they're undercutting it at the moment.

54:14I think it's a little bit more in that in the sense that when you looked at Liverpool's signings for£30-40 million that they were making a few years ago, those players ended up being some of the best in the world. When you look at the actual players, let's say United as an example, you've got Fernandes, Mount, Casemiro, Eriksen. I think Jurgen Klopp would swap his midfield now for United. and I think there's an element now of the midfield, say for instance that Arsenal have got with Rice, with Partey, with Odegaard, they're actually now, he's having to over-coach them and out-perform. Before when he was signing these£30,£40 million players, they ended up being absolutely outstanding and world-class players.

54:48These lads that he's got now, we know they're good players but they're not the same Liverpool as they were four or five years ago. So he does need now, unfortunately, to sort of go and get one from the top shelf and literally put him in. The ceiling's not nearly as high. There's two they need to go and get and this is the problem with changing the system. it's a reboot of the attack but it's still not quite we haven't quite got the players that fit and this is the problem is Arsenal are almost a season ahead now and a defender that's what Liverpool need let's say you've got Lavia and Casado tomorrow for£140 million or£145 million let's just say they went and did that the owners right all of a sudden Liverpool will be like whoa you've been looking at it and thinking they've got a right chance the owners aren't going to go and do it though the thing is it is about it is look and I don't disagree with anything you've said there by the way I wish we'd just go who's the best in class because the thing is this is one they weren't quite as desperately in this market but they've made themselves now desperately in the market by selling what they had well they're in for Bellingham they're in for Bellingham for six months well exactly but they've missed out on Rice you know they've missed out the DMs have moved now and there's not there seems to be a premium of like of truly top quality well everyone knows they've been a desperate yeah and that's where it's a a fault of their own making kind of thing but it is ultimately about buying the right player because this I think we get a bit lost in the headline figures of footballers sometimes and again Man Utd have thrown money at the problem since Ferguson left and they've bought a lot of mercenary duds along the way.

56:06Liverpool have been very canny in what they've done. I think they're trying to see if they can hold on to the old way because you don't want to get bullied into£50 million for a 19-year-old who's played 2 ,000 minutes in professional football. I think you're kind of missing the trick. You've got Jurgen Klopp, who I agree with Gary when he says that pound for pound, he's been the best manager in the Premier League over the last seven, eight years, especially when you look like he won. I think they need to, while you've got him, You need to support him, you need to back him and bring the players in.

56:32Otherwise, you're going to have a few years of him getting Europa League football, punching above his weight. It felt like the Chiuameni signing of last year. If that had actually happened, we're not having this discussion. Yeah, and that's the thing. It's clearly been identified for two years. That's the one thing I would say why Liverpool are not quite doing. I keep thinking there's something going on with Mbappe and Real Madrid. And at some stage in this window, will Real Madrid need money? And the guy you're talking about, Tukumeni, he chose Real Madrid over Liverpool last summer. he didn't really play too much last summer.

57:00And I just don't... Jürgen Klopp's probably having these conversations with people at the club, we need someone in this position. But are they thinking, let's give this another two or three weeks, it's not the end of the world the first two or three games of the season, we want to buy someone for the next four or five years. If he goes to Real Madrid, they're going to need maybe 50 or 60 million to help with that transfer fee. Could we get the guy that we want? That's definitely on the card about those conversations. When I was talking to you before, by the way, I actually wish I wasn't saying that they had to go and spend 140 million.

57:26but the problem is the whole market. When Fernandes went to Chelsea, I thought it was madness. But then when Declan Rice has gone for£100 million, Bellingham's gone for£100 million, the actual market has shifted, unfortunately. It feels like they're going, come on, let's just keep this market down and everyone else will, yeah, we're with you, totally. How much for Rice? £105 million? Yeah, go ahead. I think DM should be£50-60 million. I think Liverpool are right, but the problem is the whole market shifted to£100 million. Casedo, that's why they're saying£100 million. None of those players are worth that amount of money because again if you're going to pay £100 million for someone it's got to have a transformative effect but Liverpool are in a position now where when you don't own a footballer literally professionally in that position that might be where it's worth spending the money but£100 million should be getting you 30 goals a season Liverpool have won massively on the other side in terms of selling in terms of Henderson Firmino so surely you've got to be thinking there's£50 million we didn't think we were going to have and this is why it's crazy I spend my job almost trying to work out not necessarily my opinion on it but trying to work out what are the conversations what are they doing and you're right They were going for Lavia prior to getting effectively a£52 million windfall off selling Fabinho and Henderson.

58:31So there's the£10 million that they were arguing about straight away with no problem. What else are they doing? They were clearly waiting for Levi Colwell. He's just signed a new contract with Chelsea. So is there a big move that they're holding out for? But the problem is in the transfer market where you're holding out for one big thing, it's like trying to go for one big Scrabble move to win a game, whereas everyone else is just getting loads of bits and pieces done. You're playing catch-up and you leave yourself in that. last week of the window we talked about it with United with Harry Kane you don't put all your eggs in one player's basket there were too many last summer and that's how you end up with Art and Melo and it feels like that they're you know talking about overpriced midfielders you know he's still in the top 10 most expensive ones of all time they can't afford to get caught short at the end of this season because it's a one and done for you I think we've probably lost a lot I think you know what experience as much as I love talking about our tax boss by the way we're going to score loads it's more negative so keep it going All right, we're going to get on to that, but we're running out of time, so we've got to crack on to Newcastle.

59:28Kendall, how are you feeling? I mean, must be unbelievable. Champions League anthem at St James' Park for the first time in a long time. Yeah, over the moon, I was like, I think I was eight or something the last time we got Champions League. So yeah, for me to see that this season, it's just whatever I could have expected from last season, it was better tenfold. So yeah, I'm really, really looking forward to it. Do you think this could be a fairytale season where you go on a run, like that Spurs run when they went to Inter Milan, Gareth Bale had those incredible games. They got beat that day, by the way.

59:59It's important to remember that. Yeah, but Gareth Bale was born that day. What he's done for football. I'll just say. Listen, they speak about it like they won a trophy. It's a three day. Do you think that you can go on a run? How important? Are you happy to compete? Or do you expect yourselves to do big things? Yeah, I'm not liking all these clubs are expecting. and we need to go out and win it. I'm not like that. And I don't think 98 % of Newcastle fans are either. I think we're just happy to, as long as we get out of the groups, anything beyond that for me is successful in the Champions League.

1:00:33But it also has to come alongside maintaining European status next season. A little bit different, obviously, because hopefully with coefficient and stuff, there's five places in the Champions League, Premier League next season. And another cup run, I think. I know that sounds like a lot, but you've got to keep maintaining and keep going at a level where you deem yourself to be progressing rather than kind of just, oh, we're there. We just, you know, thanks for the Champions League. See you later. We'll just go back to ninth. Like, our owners aren't expecting that either. What's the feeling on the signings that you made?

1:01:06Because I was looking at the signings and it reminds... When you look at them, you think of where Newcastle are now financially in the Champions League. Has it really excited the support? Because they feel to me like Eddie House signings where he's looking at players who think they've got great potential and I'm a great coach, I'm going to make them even better. But I don't think the type of signings that maybe the rest of the Premier League are going, wow, how have the supporters taken that? I think we've done that the whole time. Everyone's expecting us to go and spend£100 million on someone.

1:01:33And we haven't. We've spent smartly in every single signing so far. Far maybe Chris would, but he did bring some money back in for us. It's worked out pretty well. Obviously expecting big things from Gordon this season as well. He didn't play too much last season. But so far, Harvey Barnes has looked brilliant. He's much more effective output-wise than St. Maximum. I know a lot of our fans were really upset about losing St. Maximum, me included, but it was sentimental and you can't be. You lot all know people who've won things here, you can't be sentimental when you want to try and win things.

1:02:06Tenali, Eddie Howe is number one target. That's what he said, and he got him. That was a big cop for us because obviously Milan boy, it's his boyhood club. no one expected that to happen and yeah it's looking it's looking okay so far I'm pretty happy I still don't get us wrong I still think there's stuff we need to do we need a right centre back we need a left back obviously Livermento is kind of on the verge of coming in but that is a little bit of a weird one for me on the outside looking in just because I think we needed someone to come in and play left back immediately he has said he can play left back but I just don't see him being the start and left back week in week out so but other than that I think yeah I'm really, really happy with the signings, but I do think there's more that needs to be done there.

1:02:49I felt the same as you a little bit about the signings, that at what point is the... I hope it persists, I hope the owners and the coach are aligned in terms of how they think they're to get to the sort of top because obviously that's where they want to get to to probably Premier League champions are they willing to go slowly do you think all the way through the journey and improve gradually each year where they might even go back a little bit or is there going to come a point whereby they're going to think we need those big players we need that big manager now do you think they'll continue to be aligned for the next two or three years or do you think it'll be a case of at some point they'll think now and they'll blink and they will want those hundred million pound signings that to be fair De Howe may not want because they might might just be a little bit too sort of, you know, they might disrupt the sort of, the wage bill, they might disrupt the salaries and all the sort of dynamic in the dressing room.

1:03:37That's the thing so far, we've managed to not do that. As you said, everyone's on the same sort of playing field. We haven't overextended our rage structure at all, even for the likes of Tonali or obviously Bruno's wanting to sign a new contract. So I think that might be the start of where we then do see a rise. The owners have said that they want to be number one, they want to win stuff. Our chairman obviously said, a few weeks ago, did an interview and said, look, our aim is to be number one. So, it is going to have to get to a point, obviously, when it starts going wrong, because at the moment, it's going pretty well.

1:04:08It's going nicely. The real, if it gets to a point where it is going downhill or, you know, something's going wrong, I think they will have to step that. And as I say, I think we might see that with the Bruno contract. I think it'll be really interesting to see how patient they are in the next year or two. Yeah. I mean, those signs... The ball doesn't allow patience, does it, at the end of the day. It just doesn't. In this market, As you said, the market shifted. There's players going for£100 million now. We are going to have to get to a point. We have spent, don't get us wrong, obviously, Ezek,£60 million, still our record signing.

1:04:37But there is going to get to a point if the market shifts and continues to grow the way that it is. There's going to have to be a point where we do. I think those three signings will get better with Eddie Howe. But it feels to me they're three signings that Newcastle could have made if they'd finished eighth. They've still been the sort of players I thought Newcastle would have brought in. The fact that he's got Champions League, I thought it might have been maybe... There wasn't a marquee. No, it doesn't have to be marquee, it just has to be lots of money. Just when you think about, you know, they've got a player who hasn't played for a long time, who's at Southampton, Liverpool, Harvey Barnes from a relegated team, I think he's a good player.

1:05:09Obviously, Tenali, obviously AC Milan. Of course, that's one of those type of names. But I think the other two players, it was nothing about getting in the Champions League that maybe elevated who they could maybe bring in as players, because I think they're players they'd have brought in anyway. It's the FFP, that's what they keep... Every time there's an interview, Eddie Howe mentions FFP. Why is that a problem for you and not Man City? You tell me, we need to figure out... FFP's just hampering us at the moment, because we don't have... Like Chelsea, for example, they've had a really poor season by their standards, but by anyone's standards, really.

1:05:40And they've still got sellable assets. We don't... St Maxman was the sellable asset. We've got£25 million for him. That's our peak. We don't have anyone else who we're willing to let go of that can help us out like other teams do. We've got... Literally, I tweeted a photo yesterday. Three years ago, we have only two players out of our starting eleven three years ago and not at that club anymore. So we've still got that little bit of level to go. No-one wants our... Deadwood. Our deadwood. Without being nasty, but... That's going to stop the jump, though, isn't it? Because of everyone else. City and Liverpool and all.

1:06:17I've got those revenues. The rules that were put. You've spent your money. You spent your money Well exactly Everton Everton are at the third bottom net spend the last five years It's got that I'm just saying it's got that I'm just talking about forget about Everton I'm just saying for Newcastle to make that exit Without the money It's difficult Look I don't know the individual accounts of each club but why is FFP a problem for United at the moment they seem to be quoting FFP and I think City have even obviously got some restrictions Arsenal seem to have spent an absolute fortune Finally We just make loads of money, though.

1:06:51I've been banging this run for three years. £4 million a match day. We're good. £6 million, though, in the last five-year wage bill. Is there revenue? I don't know. You probably know, and you might know the same as well. I was reading about this because Liverpool fans were getting frustrated on social media. How are Arsenal doing this? We've been in the Champions League. And it said, whether these numbers are true, that Arsenal's wage bill was half of Liverpool. It was£150 million a year. We don't pay big money, and we've never paid big money. We've got someone like El Neni on 60 bags a week, 65 bags a week.

1:07:22Arsenal always made sure that our wage structure doesn't get broken. When you think about it, it's 50 million a year. That's why I was really surprised about Saka's salary. So that's when you talk about FFP and Liverpool, maybe not spending as much as Arsenal. Liverpool's wage, but it's£150 million a season more than Arsenal's. Even for us, commercially, we're just not anywhere near a level of a Champions League club. We're just getting our new shirt sponsor. Our previous one was£8 million, this one's£25 million. You got a lot of money off Sports Day, didn't you? Talking of big money, I'm glad to say that we dragged him out of Dino's caf.

1:07:56We got the one and only. Tom Skinner in the building. He was a bosh. Bosh. I've got to darken the mood a little bit. Arsenal, obviously, the great recipients of Declan Rice, but you received£105 million. You happy with that deal? I mean, listen, you can't blame him, can you? He's brilliant at West Ham. he's going to go on to bigger and better things and good luck to him and you can't begrudge him but we ain't signed no one yet so I'm a little bit worried but there's still a month left so I don't know. Off the back of obviously Man City winning the Champions League you're on the Europa Conference League but European silverware adds a little bit of spice to West Ham obviously a club with a lot of history a great stadium.

1:08:36That was probably the worst week of my life though. Honestly it was. I don't know if you know I was managing West Ham the week before out in America and I don't know this happened I got West Ham rung us up I said Tom come down legends team in America can you manage it I said you sure you're ringing me we'd love you to do it I said okay so me Kenny Brown got together we had Anton Ferdinand Hayden Mullins Jimmy Walker and we've jumped this plane gone to America now I don't know anything about managing West Ham but I'm here it's like Gary and Alencia oh here we go I've stayed away from Love Island

1:09:16I love Ireland shit's coming out Truth, truth, truth The morning I'm boarding the plane My wife was seven months pregnant With our twin girls And I said, look, you sure you want me to go? This is getting like love Ireland When it gets better She went, look, when in your life Are you going to get a manager West Ham? These are legends, you're watching her And I was like, I know, I know, I've got to do it Right, see, you'll be all right. Got her two sisters to stay round the house. Flew out to America. And then the plan was, this was the start of June. We're three days in America. We fly back. We're going to Prague.

1:09:52I'm in my element. Then when I land, have a few weeks off, the babies will be born. Well, it didn't happen like that. Now, we've had our training day. And me and Kenny Brown are writing out what we're doing. And mine was literally, score goals, go to the pub afterwards. That's all I've got to play. to him. And as on the morning of the big day, my first game as West Ham, the actual man, I've got the kit on everything. I can't believe what's happening. I've got all the ESPN news on me. I'm thinking this is a dream. My wife rings me. This is two hours before the first game. And she's in hysterics.

1:10:23Cannot get her words. I said, well, slow down. What's the matter? Shut up. And she literally can't talk. She went, I'm at the doctor's. And I went, all right, well, put the doctor on. And the doctor's gone, hello, Tom. And I've gone, you all right? Not really. We've got a bit of bad news. I said, I said, okay, all right. What is it? How bad is it? She goes, well, your wife has come in today for an appointment at the hospital to book in the date for the caesarean next month. But we've done the checks and one of the baby's heartbeats has nearly stopped. And if we don't get the babies out in the next couple of hours, you potentially lose both your daughters and your wife.

1:11:03And I thought, and I just burst into tears. I didn't know what to do I've got the west and I've got in this lift to go down and as I've opened the lift Anton Ferdinand and Jimmy Walker are both standing there Carlton Cole's in the background and I'm looking around and I'm just going you alright and they thought I was just crying with happiness and I was literally in a distraught I said I've got to go home I can't and they went I dual mind I feel terrible but I need to go home I might lose my wife they said it's fine so we got on this bus and the bus had to drop me off at the stadium and it took me straight to the airport now I've got to the airport massive queue I've got to the front I said, look, I need the next flight back to Heathrow.

1:11:38And he said, the only flight we've got is you've got to fly to Philadelphia. You've got to wait 45 minutes and Philadelphia straight to Heathrow. I said, when is it? She went, it's from four hours' time on. I'll have it. Well, I've run back out, got back on the bus and gone back to the stadium. This is true. I've run into the stadium as Kenny Brown has got the boys in a circle. And I said, I thought you were going. I said, yeah, but the plane's in four hours. I ain't staying in America and not managing a team. So I've come and jumped and I've given the best motivational speech of my life. Like, lads, listen, I've watched you 10 years ago.

1:12:10You was my idol. Anton, I love you, mate. I was going mad, right? We got batted 4-1. Anyway, I've got to the airport. And as I'm in the airport, my wife's sister has rung me up on FaceTime. I'm going for security hysterics. We're going to lose her. I said, you what? What do you mean we're going to lose her? She went, we're going to lose her. I said, whoa, whoa, whoa. She's in a room with 12 doctors. It's all serious. I said, no, no, don't say that. Boom, phone cuts out. I've gone through security. I'm now in a mess again. I'm in a different country, waiting to get the first plane to Philadelphia, my first stop.

1:12:45Then we get onto the plane. I get a text from the sister with a picture. These two babies, they're£3 each. They're in little plastic ICU things, tubed all over them. And I said, beautiful, fantastic. She went there, okay. I put, how's my wife? This time, this is true, I've took off. I've had no reply. It's the first flight. Then it's just my luck, right? This has never happened before, but apparently it's what the captain said. As we're coming to land to Philadelphia, we are 100 feet off the ground. I can see the trees. I can see the cars. I can see the people. I'm a bad flyer. All of a sudden, the captain gives a little brace.

1:13:19I was like, you what? He was screaming. The plane has pulled up, turned right. You can't believe. All food and drink, bags of flying people. He's mad. It's gone back up in the air and the captain's gone, this is your pilot, Delta pilot, been flying 31 years. This has never happened before and we mentioned we give you all vouchers as you get off the plane. But as we was coming into land, we had to do a run, a steep fly around, because a plane has pulled out onto the wrong runway. I thought, ah, at least my day can't get any worse. Well, I've landed... I've landed in Philadelphia. This is going to be a secret section of the overlap.

1:13:53It gets better. This is the overlap, mate, yeah? You'd enjoy it, right? So then... This is your life. Rings me wife's sister. She's OK. She's in recovery. Boom, boom, boom. Get on a plane to the way you throw. I make cold takes. Straight to the hospital. Anyway, three weeks later, they all come home. They're all fine and I've not slept ever since. Boss!

1:14:20Now, Declan Rice. That one's a football. Not a fucking chance, any of that's me from the office. LAUGHTER It was a great story, you're a great story, Manny. So, Jared Bowen, is he going to score a lot of goals? How much of a loss is Declan Rasmussen going to score? Let's start with you two. You two. How much of a loss is the fucking Al West Ham fans?

1:14:47What makes a good season for West Ham? Go on. What is a good season for West Ham? Getting back to where they were in the first couple of seasons under David Moyes where they were challenging Europe. That'll be tough because they were fantastic those first couple of seasons. He was under pressure for a lot of losses. Yeah, which I thought was a little bit harsh considering what he'd done before. But I understand that. But he stayed up. And to win a trophy, and one of the things that I don't think is great about the way football has become with the Champions League and the Premier League is that great football clubs like a West Ham go in like 20, 30 years without a trophy.

1:15:19So I was so happy for David Moyes to see him lift it. But also for West Ham, I've got no affiliation with the club at all and that's why I'd love for Aston Villa to do it this season I think how long have Aston Villa gone without a trophy I'm not taking the mic here Everton have gone a long time Spurs have gone a long time there's lots of clubs even at Forest and European Cups I think that competition and the Europa League as well I think they're competitions we should be dominating as a league because who we're competing against we've got a lot more money than them teams who finished 6th, 7th in the Premier League I think should be getting to semi-finals finals of these competitions and being the dominant force and to see West Ham win that, I think it was a big thing for other clubs to see, the scenes of West Ham the homecoming and I think if you're a Villa fan you're thinking, we've got Unai Emery where's that final, we're going to win it Yeah, I saw last week that West Ham were linked with McTominay and Maguire weren't they?

1:16:13Please No, no, I don't think Harry will go there to be honest with you but I thought if they were to get those two players not saying they're going to replace Declan Rice but in terms of strength personality um performance levels I know people will mock potentially what's happening with Harry at the moment but he's a bloody good defender and for West Ham he'd be fantastic signing um and I think for obviously Matt Tomini I actually have times over this last three or four years have said at times I've watched them they haven't you know he's not he's not he's not Declan Rice Matt Tomini he's not he's used to say that he's not he's not too far away from him in terms of profile you know He's a similar type of player.

1:16:49So I thought if they get those two players in, they could have a good season, but they need a couple of signings like that desperately. Desperately. Desperately. Do you not think there's an issue at West Ham with the way that... You know, the day after they won in Prague, so the most glorious night they've had since 1980, the day after, their owner is on TalkSport saying, you know, Declan Rice is for sale for the right price, trying to usher that deal through. He had a year left, though, didn't he? Pardon? He had a year left, Declan. Yeah. But the day after, to already be sort of manipulated...

1:17:21He loves the line, doesn't he? No, he does, doesn't he? He's one of those type of owners. But I think everyone knew Declan Rice was going to... Does that not show the ambition, though, for the club? Like, in terms of... People say that, but what's the ambition? Declan was never going to sign. I mean, for West Ham to win a trophy. But the problem for West Ham at the moment, it looks like there's something going on between David Moyes and the new director of football who's coming. There's talk about David Moyes actually losing his job. And we're really interested in over the next two or three what happens in terms of bringing players in.

1:17:48I think he wants to go back to bringing Premier League players in because the transfer window didn't go great for West Ham last season. And I think the new director of football, is he a guy from Bayer Leverkusen, I think? Yeah, I know that. And I think he's obviously looking maybe a foreign player, so it looks like there's a disconnect there behind the scenes. By the way, I wouldn't sell Matt Tomlin if I was United anyway for the fact that Ten Hag attacks all competitions and he will need him in competitions. So I wouldn't sell him personally. Sell him and replace him. I think you have to maybe Maz you must be buzzing Brighton European football you couldn't have dreamed of it could you?

1:18:22No it's an incredible season finishing our highest ever position getting European football got De Zerbi at the helm obviously Chelsea trying to poach all our players but yeah no we've done really well last season and I'm really really excited like pre-season's been class we were in the same event in the summer league with Chelsea and yeah just I'm really excited we've got some great players like young players coming through like I said De Zerbi incredible manager I think he's top five for me in the league. And then, yeah, just an incredible, incredible squad. And really look forward to this season, to be honest.

1:18:51There we go. Do you echo those sentiments? I mean, they're a team that was lovely to watch last year. They were, but I think they've gone up a level from where they were with Graham Potter and Dezebi coming at. And I'd be surprised if he's your manager the following season. If you'd have a similar sort of season, I think you're looking at someone who looks pretty special. And they brought in, not playing good football, we've seen lots of teams play good football over the years, but the way they did it in terms of almost enticing teams onto them with the centre-backs rolling the foot over the ball, waiting for the opposition to come onto them, the goalkeeper, I actually saw Man City doing that as well.

1:19:24And normally, not like saying Pep's copying your manager, Pep's normally sort of the front-runner for any sort of change in football. But I was seeing Man City doing that yesterday, just slowing the game down, waiting for people to come on and then trying to make a couple of passes. And I think they've been a joy to watch. He's a bit mad as neither man. He's a bit volatile. You talked about Arteta earlier, about his passion on the sidelines. I think he's up there, Deserby. He just loves it. I think he got pushed five times last season on a touchline. And I think that's what we missed. We had past managers, Chris Hewitt and Graham Potter, quite tame, quite reserved managers in that sense.

1:19:59And then you have Deserby on the complete end of the spectrum. He's just that sort of crazy Italian with incredible ideas, big ideas. And yeah, he's just been a breath of fresh air, I think, for Brighton. And like you said, we were worried about Potter leaving, going to Chelsea. We thought, because I think we just beat Leicester 4-1 or whatever it was and then he left and we were riding, I think, fourth in the league, somewhere like that. And then, yeah, he's gone and we're like, what's going to happen? Are we going to go down the league? Are we going to get relegated? All these kind of questions.

1:20:24The Brighton fan, you're thinking, this is bad. Would you rather have, because I'm thinking about what West Ham did last season, would you rather have a similar sort of season in the Premier League or would you rather have a great run in Europe and trips with your mates and nice to be? What would you prefer? It's a really tough question because of course you don't want to get you want to get in that scrap of relegation. No, no, no. As in like be down there because of the run of games you're going to have so many more games having to play mid-week, weekends. It's just going to be completely different for us.

1:20:53We've never been used to that. We've never had that before. So to answer your question I think I'd love a good European run. You want both. Yes, basically we go. I'm very greedy. I want both. I want to win the league and win the Europa League as well. But no, all joking is on I think we've got a great squad. I think we obviously it's going to take time to adapt to all the competitions and stuff. But I think we can do it with the players. Look at Milner, De Hood. We've made some really smart signings, free transfers. Incredible signings to come in and bring that experience. We've got Adam and Lana as well there.

1:21:21The experience they bring in from a European perspective is huge. And then you've got the young players, Kyle Pedro in CISO, Buonanotte. I could go on for days. And we've just got an incredible mix, I think, of experience and youth. And I think that's really key going into the season. Talking about, Gary, talking about going on a European run, you had Aston Villa in your top six. Do you really believe they can do that and they can maintain? Is Henry that good? Yeah, I think he's a brilliant manager. I think he's a brilliant first time around when he went to Arsenal, but obviously circumstances, sometimes things don't work.

1:21:51Yeah, I really fancy him. I think he's a manager that knows exactly what he wants. He's brought a group of people in with him that I think he's worked with before. My general manager that I had at Valencia is his general manager and communications guy at Aston Villa. I'm waiting for this.

1:22:10He didn't speak Spanish. He knows exactly what he's doing. He's been round the block. He's a top, top manager. And I think they'll deliver this season, Aston Miller. And I love Brighton as well. I mean, Brighton, to be fair, put the best performance I've seen last season live in all the games I commentated on against Arsenal. I thought they were absolutely out of this world. It was unbelievable. Enjoy it while it lasts. Look, Deserby, I think, came out the week before saying, you're going to see, because we lost against Everton 5-1, because you're going to see the real Brighton on Sunday. It's the best performance I saw all season.

1:22:41It was unbelievable. But I think Villa, I mean, Villa going to that category of Newcastle over the past 10 years when you've gone there and you've seen a great club and it's just been a bit like... But I think what Emery's done in these last six months, he's brought life to Villa and Villa needs life. He's made them a really attractive proponent for players. Yeah, and Gary mentions Vidagani, the guy that's sort of Emery's right-hand man. But the biggest appointment we've made is Monchi. New sporting director. He was like the catalyst of everything that Seville did, all of their success. So it feels like last season, Emery was on sort of like a trial and he showed us what he can do with players that weren't his own players.

1:23:16But now the board have backed him and brought players to suit his system and that with Monchi. And, you know, his in-game management is just ridiculous. You know, in pre-season, we're shifting between three different formations. He's a born winner. He just wants to win every game. And I think will be a big problem for most teams in the league this season. You said about three formations in game. I think I remember telling you about Valverde. You obviously went on to coach Barcelona when I was... I played as Bilbao twice, three times actually, when I was at Valencia. And, I mean, he wasn't just one step ahead of me, Valverde.

1:23:48He was like ten steps ahead of me. He changed three times in one game. I'd never seen anything like it, to be honest with you. I always felt like I was massively behind. When you're feeling fear on the touchline, and obviously, you know, somebody having a touchline, But, you know, they're against Luis Enrique, Simone, Atletico Madrid, but Valverde. And Emery, I think, is similar to Valverde in his thinking behind the game. And I think the people who can do that, they're really special coaches, massively talented. And I think Villa have got someone there that could do really well for them. That's why I put them sort of where I did in that sort of top six.

1:24:19I do think they've got something to go in there. Jamie, can they maintain it? Because we've seen them almost flatter to deceive and kind of be up there. We've seen Everton be up there at times. Those teams that are around eighth to fifth, they don't usually stay there long. There's so much competition. But with Emery, is there someone who can really build a style of play and a real feeling of their concrete in that top eight space? I think he's done that last season. He's come in halfway through the season. He's sort of embedded what he wants. I think you're right. You've just added three or four players.

1:24:52The guy you mentioned there, he used to be the sporting director at Sevilla. has got an unbelievable reputation in terms of bringing players in. I think the defender you brought in from Villarreal, I think it's an unbelievable sign for Aston Villa because he was a guy who... It just suits what we're trying to do. You know, a ball playing centre-half, playing out from the back. The system that we're currently playing is a little bit like what Man City were doing. We've got three centre-backs, we've got two in midfield, four across the front line and Watkins up top. So we're sort of asking our full-back to fill in at midfield as well.

1:25:20So he's really sort of trying to be that manager tactically like like what Pep is. It also feels like he's improving players. You see Mings under... Gerrard didn't look like the player he does under... Watkins is the biggest one. Watkins has looked even unbelievable. You said something earlier on that I don't 100 % agree with. You said European football might not be that big a deal to cope with. I think it will. Especially, you're talking about the manager knows European football. Yeah, but when players are not used to playing two or three times a week constantly through a season, I think it's not just a physical problem, with a mental problem at times.

1:25:56And that's why I think sometimes in the Premier League, certain teams who've made the Europa League, they can't wait to get out of it. Because they're just not used to it. It's not their way of dealing with the games. And I think that's why I've actually not put you in the top six. Because I just think you'll go far in that competition. I think at some stage, it'll have an effect on your league form. Yeah, I just think, you know, with the players that we've currently got and how good he is tactically. I mean, go back to last season. First game for UNI, we beat Man United 3-1 at Villa Park. We hadn't done that for 20 years.

1:26:26We did the double over Spurs. So I just think... Everybody did. Yeah, but we haven't been. We've been in that club that have been plateauing. So I just think Manny Jack is going to be that difference because not only do we play the same every single week, he does little tweaks each week. When we played Newcastle at home, he stuck McGinn on Dan Byrne. We've never, ever seen him do that tactic before, but he did it. and it's what won the game. So I think we just don't play the same every week and I think that will throw a lot of teams. Baz, I need an elevator pitch from you. How are Everton going to do this year?

1:27:05I always enjoy it because we go back to it at the end of the season. We'll see how close you are. Yeah, it wasn't great, was it? I didn't believe I'd be sat here, but I am. I think we'll be all right this year. I do. I do. No, I do. I think if you look at it, I think everyone with Everton, and rightly so, criticised, they bring a lot on themselves. But we played the whole season without a striker. Our striker got one goal, which is just... And if you look at the defensive numbers and you look at the midfield, they were mid-table. But forward, it was League Two, probably doing League Two. With this service, it was worse.

1:27:40So, obviously, I said it a year ago, I'm not going to say it again, but if our centre-forward stays fit... You know, we're bringing another... I'll bring the young lad in from Sporting tomorrow, probably. Youssef Chimithi. He's only 19, but he's 6 '4". A bit more like Dominic Calvert-Lewin as in framework. He still wants another couple there after Nonto from Leeds. If they can get some pace in, why, there. He's got Dan Jumor in. I think they'll do all right. I think people... Baz, is it all right not being in a relegation fight? Yeah, I think, listen, you can sit here and go, oh, well, you know, things go right.

1:28:15And you can have a mad season, of course you can. but I think most Evertonians heart rates will be a lot happier if come April they're nowhere near I have them somewhere between 11th and 14th Surely Sean Dyche having a full season full pre-season he's the man to steady the ship you're not going to get any surprises I think Everton will be a hard team to play against but they'll also be a hard watch I think the way Sean Dyche plays is going to be very direct I saw you with the actual team that played in the friendly against Sport and Lisbon and it's just a big, powerful team. You look at the midfield, a lot of energy, not great creativity, it's not going to be a lot of goals, but you always feel a Sean Dice team will either lose 1-0, draw 1-1 or win 1-0.

1:28:58It's always going to be that. They're always going to be in games. I don't think you'd see Everton under Sean Dice getting walloped week after week, 3 or 4-0. It wouldn't be that type of team, or doing that themselves to the opposition. I think Everton will always be in games, and as I said, I think, did you say about 14th, 15th? I think anywhere between those numbers, if you look at it. I mean, we were terrible last year. I think we finished six or seven points behind Chelsea. If you'd offer me that this year, I'd bite your hand off because I actually think they'll be right at the top in the hunt for Champions League.

1:29:27But this is a massive season. Stadium is going to be moving into it next season at some stage. We've just got to have a steady season this year and I think we've got the manager to do it. There's still work to be done with the forward positions. We played that game Saturday, beat Sporting. we didn't have Dwight McNeill who I can't believe I'm saying it but it was a massive miss for us because it was an overly enthused when we got him when he finished the season brilliantly particularly against Brighton he got seven goals he was out Dan Zumer who we've just got him we didn't have him at the weekend as well and they are working on three or four attacking additions and that's what they need I think everywhere else I'd like you know the centre back but I think everywhere else they're alright so I'm cautiously optimistic that I won't be sat here in May going I don't know whether I can say we'll stay up.

1:30:14I hope it's done much before that. Will the owners still not come back and watch this season again? Has that gone now? Well, the three of the board have gone, haven't you? Mishiri hasn't been at Goodison for a couple of years. MSP are just about to buy in. That's going to be done in the next 10 days. And I think then you're going to start to see a little bit of a shift towards that ownership. It won't be done all in one, but it'll work towards that. And with the stadium, then they'll probably look to get that off again to someone else. so I think that's where you're going to start seeing the term but I don't see the term coming back.

1:30:45Do you feel like you're waiting for the stadium to almost start and you're Everton again? It feels like you're almost like this season you're almost like staying in the Premier League and then it's a new club once the actual stadium comes. It has to be. Listen, Goodison's amazing. You were there the last day. It's unbelievable. When it's like that, that noise went the core. It's good. I've seen big nights at Everton. I'm old enough to see us win stuff. I've never heard noise like that in that goal when the stadium was bouncing as you'll well know but it's time to move to get everything to the next level if you like you know Kendall's talking before about commercial income and things like that we're stuck our ground is at the maximum it's£23 ,000 on a waiting list that can't get even if that's just gate receipts that's money so we are where we are we've got to move it will be like a new beginning it feels like that the chairman is waiting to go we're waiting to bring a new CEO in that'll be done in the next few weeks and then we can start to maybe look But there is a Bob stability.

1:31:38If you're asking me anything, I'll bite your hand off for 14th and no sleepless nights for April onwards. Well, Baz, I hope you're correct. You don't want to be playing in the Championship in that beautiful new ground, let me tell you. Now, on to Nottingham Forest. We sat and we laughed. 45 new sidings, I think, at this point last season. Happy with how things went, survival, and what's your aims for this season? Yeah, I mean, it wasn't just survival as well. It was League Cup semi-finals. I mean, we proved ourselves last year when many said we wouldn't. I think the aim is just steady the ship.

1:32:12You know, 30 signings last season. We've only made two this season so far, but we have such a hard start. So I think we've got Arsenal, Man U, Chelsea, Man City, first four away games. So for Steve Cooper, the pressure is going to be absolutely huge for these first four to six games. And if he gets through that, then I think we're going to have a really strong season. The board's backed him, and that must be, for the fans especially, because I know he's a fan favourite, that must be incredible for him and has a bit of stability. He's still one of the youngest managers in the Premier League. You know, his experience already, just through what he did last season, he is going to go on to much bigger things in his career because of his age, and I just hope it's with us.

1:32:54I really do. I think watching them last season, they come into the Premier League, and I know Steve Cooper well from his time at Liverpool, and he wants to play a certain type of football, but they ended up finding a way of playing that kept up in terms of having five at the back playing counter-attack the lads up front are we Tyrone, I win you I watched them, I commentated on the Arsenal game where it kept them up and there was a way of playing with it was a big powerful team it felt to me at the end of the season when you looked at Forrest, the back five and as I said the lads up front, the midfield players a lot of energy and I thought if they stick with that and become that sort of type of team where you think I'm not sure you'd want to play against them Whereas I felt like when they first came into the Premier League in the early first few months, it was a team you thought, OK, you could maybe get after them, maybe you could bully them.

1:33:39But it felt like he'd fell on a system and a way of playing the players they brought in. You know what, they wouldn't be a bit of a tough nut to crack. Certainly at home, you think the home record was fantastic. And I think they should stick with how they were playing at the end of the season. Yeah, it was top five form the last month of the season. But the away form is key. And with that comes the injuries. and we've just signed a guy behind the scenes from Chelsea that's going to be key for us because the injury has destroyed us last season so we can't have that again. Especially with the 100-minute games and things like that going on.

1:34:11Do you mean a physio? Pardon? A physio, you mean? Yeah. Chelsea sacked all their medical department. That's another example of the ownership doing crazy things. Is the jury out on those guys? No, we can't. Absolutely not. I've got to welcome Joseph Burnley fan into the Prem. absolutely walk the championship. Happy days? Yeah, dominate it. I know we've always gone on about how detrimental relegation can be, but best season of my life following Burnley last season. Dominated absolutely everybody. All right, Sheffield United might have got it as one game. But apart from that, we walked the league, beat Blackburn 3-0, beat Preston 3-0.

1:34:47It couldn't have gone any better. How impressive has Vince come to you? You were with him the other week, weren't you? Yeah, to be honest with you, I went to see him five, six weeks ago and they'd started pre-season training. They were the first ones in, aren't they? It's a weird thing. Obviously, the season finished quite early and obviously you went up quite early. So he brought them back, I think, after three weeks, which was like before, I think the season had just finished for the Premier League. And I was like, what's happening here? And then he was giving them, he's going away with them for a 10-day camp.

1:35:15Then they were having another 10 days off and then they were having another sort of block for pre-season. So it's a really interesting way of doing pre-season. I'd never seen it before, never heard of it before. He's obviously a workaholic. he's there to I mean I know we say this sometimes about managers don't they but I think he genuinely is I think he sleeps four or five hours a night I think he's one of them sort of like up till ten o 'clock at night leaves the training ground at eight o 'clock I know a few people at the club he's there early morning late at night as well just always working on meetings and things like that and delegating and stuff like that and I think that some of the I mean you've said this probably more than me some of the players that have been great players they've probably they haven't done that 12, 14 hour day every day and lived it and breathed it they live it and breathed it they love it, they want to do well as managers, but then there's that element of obsession.

1:36:00I think when I went to see Vincent Kompany for that sort of few hours, you get a feeling from speaking to people at the groundsman, people like the physio, or what's he like? We don't go home until half eight, nine o 'clock at night. Straight away you're thinking, right, there's an obsession here. He's not going to leave anything to chance. It's going to be really hard work for those that are there. The players are going to have to really sort of, obviously Burnley always have worked hard when Sean Dyche was there, but a very different feeling, I think, than when Sean Dyches was there with Vincent Kompany.

1:36:28He's done well. Yeah, he's one of those players where, when you think of a great player becoming a manager, you think straight away when you walk in the door, you've got that respect straight away because you get that. But very few players have got what he's got because he had unbelievable respect in a dressing room at Man City that had some of the best players in the world. And you know he was still that sort of leader, that presence, the one they all looked up to and he's the type of guy you think if he wasn't a football manager he could be involved in politics or something he's got that sort of I think he was offered I think his parents I think or one of his parents is actually the mayor in Belgium Manchester?

1:37:07Yeah well I saw that in the interview in Belgium yeah he has got a political family but I was really impressed with him and I think as well when I first heard the words Vincent Kompany and Burnley I thought you just think where he's been the glory that he's had in his football career, he was willing to go to Burnley, who have been obviously relegated. And I think there's an element of that as well that I think will stand him in good stead, that he's been willing to sort of step down the level that people maybe wouldn't think he would. I'm not sure many of our teammates that played for England with us who've gone on to be managers would look at that and think, that's one for me.

1:37:41I think they'd think that, you know, what can we do here? We can't match what Sean Dyche has done. So I think I was massively impressed and I've got no doubts that his next jump will be a big one. Burnley loves to have to try and keep on to him. but I think he really wants to prove himself in the Premier League this season at Burnley and obviously keep them up. Yeah, I think we'll be all right because of him mainly. Obviously, we talk about how meticulous he is and a lot of the players that are bringing in, because you were there, Jamie, were talking about how he demands respect. A lot of the players that were bringing in were making a lot of signings and the first thing they say in the interview is, well, as soon as I got a phone call off in some company, I knew I wanted to be there.

1:38:13It's just because of how much of a pull he is and how much of a pleasure we are to have him at our club. It's an exciting proposition. talking of exciting propositions Kenilworth Road, Luton the fairy tale story how buzzed are you to be there what a story it's been, I mean non-league football about 10 years ago I mean obviously I'm biased but for me it's the single greatest story in the history of football English football in particular I mean for me I'm too young to have seen Luton in the top flight before and for me the pinnacle was like seeing your European title side at Luton when we lost to you 5-3.

1:38:49That's Xabi Alonso's goal, wasn't it? For me, it was like, wow, that was the pinnacle. Since then, we were dragged through the mire, sort of minus 30 points, non-league football, and it's humbling, but then the story since then, 10 years to the Premier League, the memories made, been to Hyde, Ebb's Fleet, just places that I guess none of you guys know even exist, right? So, yeah, special. I watched them, actually, in the play-off final, and to be fair, you think about what Brentford do on those Fridays. We've got a Friday night. I think your first home game of the season might be on the Friday night, 1st of September.

1:39:21Yeah, Sam. And you're going to have to create something special, I think, like Brentford have done on those nights where you basically beat teams up. You know, the way in which you played, obviously, in that final I watched against Coventry. Yeah, I think that I'm really looking forward to it because I like it when a team comes up. I like it when a team comes up and plays really good football, don't get me wrong, but I like it when a team comes up and they're a throwback and they look like they're going to knock it long and it's going to be ugly and you sort of see the big teams going there and night games.

1:39:46I'm really looking forward to Luton this year because of that, really. Sort of different to style. JB, how was it playing there at Kenilwa? Because it's a special ground. I mean, it's tight. They've got the prefab boxes that are kind of one level. The seats you have to sit like this because you can't fit. It must be special to be on the pitch there. It is, and I'm delighted they come up, and I can't wait to go on the Friday night because you like doing something different. We're lucky the jobs that we're in, we go to all the big grounds and it's great, but sometimes going somewhere where you haven't been before in terms of commentating, how you get up there, and it's going to be different.

1:40:13it's not going to be like going to Tottenham's ground which is amazing and I remember when I was a kid I remember the FA Cup semi-final 1985 I think against Luton I was there as an Everton fan but Luton were a team they had the plastic pitch so there was always something I can remember as a kid but the journey they've been on I think it's brilliant to see them back when I say back in the Premier League I think they actually just missed the Premier League you went down the season the Premier League started I remember and then we went down in 92 with Notts County so yeah but I mean So to me, growing up watching football, Luton were a big part of the 80s, big national.

1:40:46In a cup final, I think in 87 or 88. So they had a really good team. It's good to see them back. Finally, Sheffield United. You're back in the prep. So short hiatus, no? Yeah, yeah. But the less said about Sheffield United, the better at the moment. I'm really, really worried. I'm going to be honest. You haven't even started yet. No! Why are you laughing? Why are you laughing? I'm going to sit down here. On the couch. I'll tell you why. The team that's going to start the first game of the season against Palace is going to be a lot worse than the team that got promoted to the Premier League. So that is the worry.

1:41:24We lost Tommy Doyle, James McAtee, both going back to Man City. We've sold our best player in my lifetime three weeks before the Premier League season. And I'm feeling like I'm going to cry right now. This has started worse than Tommy.

1:41:41This is the overlap, not Michelin Judy.

1:41:46So, no real hope there? No hope whatsoever. Is the plan to come up and basically make a load of profit at the club, stabilise the club and then go back down with the parachute payments? It feels like that, to be honest, because I think if we didn't get promoted, we'd have been in massive, massive financial trouble. So just getting up and then hopefully let's see what happens. maybe we'll go back down, probably go back down. But just getting up, that was the big thing. We need to stabilise the club and hopefully, you never know, by the time the window shuts we'll have signed five, six more players.

1:42:24But right now you're talking to me and we've sold our best player. We've lost so many great players and we've got a defence. We've got a stable defence. We've got a half-decent goalkeeper. But in front of that, I don't know what was going on. What do I talk about? I was going to try and lift the mood, but the next part of the show is the bottom-free prediction. You just put yourself bottom. He's made the bottom. I know you guys don't like doing who's going to get renegated, but if you had to predict, you know, educated guess on who you think is going to go down, I mean, judging by that. Sheffield United.

1:43:00I would say Luton. I would. I think Wolves could have a problem. Yeah, they seem to be disarray. I think Wolves will have a new manager in September. I think the manager will walk out. they've sold players it looks like they've got FFP issues and they're not going to be able to bring anyone in and I think he's a top manager and I think he'd be thinking I might ruin my reputation here in terms of being dragged into a relegation zone I think the job he did last season you could have put him up for manager this season when he did when he came in Wolves were bottom of the league when he came in don't forget but you think of the players they've lost Jimenez has gone to Fulham Neves has gone to Sarri has Moutinho moved on as well and they've sold the centre back trying to go as well where's his collins go brentford he's going to brentford and they're not bringing players in and i think there'll be a massive disconnect behind the scenes i think the manager look to go and i i think wills wills could go down i i think their ownership are connected to um the right agents and i think they'll get players on loan they can't buy anyone with the money they're alone they'll get the right place on loans yeah so i think what happens is they'll get the right players on loan at the end of the window somehow i think but i'll add to luton and Sheffield United, a goal Bournemouth.

1:44:09Interesting. Guys, that's all we've got time for. A big round of applause. David Caraba and Gary Neville. Bold opinions. I'm glad we've got something out of Rory Jennings to go viral. No doubt we'll see it on social media soon. Thank you very much. This has been the Overlap Live Fan Debate. I love you.

1:44:36Thank you.