Football’s Golden Era: Iconic Sponsors, Classic Adverts & Retro Kits | The Overlap Fan Debate

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2:45Can Utah got the best two there with Liverpool and Arsenal? I was just expecting Man United. Yeah. Warrior were making Liverpool's kits there was a sign that said something like what was it We come not to play. What does that mean? Oh, our own balls. I don't think anyone has signed them. Have you guys ever had to do an advert where you've been like, I ain't doing this? I've done an advert, yeah.

3:15FIFA as well, weren't you, late 90s, the front cover? Fucking hell, I sound like David Beckham, I don't. That's two out of 20 years you've found.

3:28Hello and welcome back to the Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet. Paul Scholes joins me on the couch as usual, supports us as well. But this week we are joined by Adam, sports marketing expert and the man behind football CCO on TikTok, where you may have seen his content. So Adam, welcome to the show. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do? Thanks a lot and thanks for having me. So I'm a chief creative officer at a marketing agency in Manchester called Trunk. We work with a lot of brands connecting a lot of the marketing dots together to make sure it's linked to their business goals and all that sort of stuff.

4:03One of the big areas that we work in is the world of sport and sports sponsorship specifically. We've worked with Manchester United, Liverpool, the NFL, the Premier League, loads of other clubs activating their sort of sponsorships. and then, as you say, 12 months ago, I riskily took the move to go to TikTok at the ripe age of 35 years old. I was then, and my kids who were teenagers were definitely rinsing me for it for quite a while. But it's opened up loads of new opportunities, loads of new contacts, and I guess that's how you found me as well. Yeah, yeah. Scores, I want to bring you in, because you famously played for a club who was seen as so far ahead of the game in terms of, you know, market and advertising.

4:44I mean, were you involved in any of those adverts or kit deals or calendars? Calendars? Were you on the song in 90s? Alan? Did you do the song, Move, Move, Move, Like the Red Tribe Do? Oh, God. Adam, that's a low point. High point for me. Move, move, move, like the Red Tribe Do or something, wasn't it? Offed's going to get in, away. Commercial stuff, isn't it? it all came in I suppose later when you you had to do the other pair and say there was like sharp and they were many sponsors AIG I think was a big one as well it was something you probably set an afternoon aside for I think it's probably more prevalent now I suppose I think there are a lot more clubs and internationally as well we had to do quite a few bits with England didn't we got a few for that didn't we yeah

5:40that's why we did it remember Martin Keown was always asking could he do more yeah of course he was he did more commercial appearances than games Adam I'm going to bring you back in just give us an insight Scholes he just mentioned it then about how it was for his club but the sort of evolution of sponsorship and where we are today and when was the big game changer sure so So at the beginning of the Premier League, it was very much, as you say, local companies, whether that was electronics or breweries. But as we moved into this sort of 2000s, those local businesses that were doing it to be tied to local fans changed to the Vodafones and the telecoms world of O2 with Arsenal.

6:27And then Fulham brought in a gambling company. and that kind of opened the floodgates a little bit because that industry is really easy to tie back to returns. So that's the reason why we see such a huge amount of that industry in the market today. So, yeah, there's a big shift from the 90s through to now where brands are doing it for a return. They're not doing it because they love Paul Scholes or they love Manchester United. They're doing it because they think that audience is the right type of audience that they can attract for their brand and they put£10 million in, they want some sort of return.

7:03How does it work now in terms, because listen, we're all sort of experts, I almost feel like we're all financial experts in terms of, we spoke about PSR so much now in these probably last four or five years. I mean, how big of an impact is sort of the sponsorship deals in terms of, you know, aligning with that? First of all, I've got to say, I'm not a finance expert. A lot of people, I'll meet people at games and say, like, it's the finance guy, I'm not the finance guy, I work in marketing. but I'm okay at maths and a lot of it is just maths. And then also you're kind of getting those insights from clubs as well.

7:38But PSR and sponsorship and commercial are huge for it. It's massive. There are four main areas that drives income into a club. One is you can sell all your best players, all your best youth players, whatever it might be, and that's transfers. Two is broadcast. And broadcast in the Premier League is actually really good. Not just good, but it's pretty evenly split between whether you finish first or 20th. It's fair. Unlike some leagues, actually the EFL's not great at all. I think you get the same amount from first to 22nd or whatever it is, 24 teams in it. It's not as evenly split, which isn't great.

8:14The fourth area, sorry, the third area is match day. So with match day revenue, you can't just bolt on 20 ,000 seats into your stadium and allow that to change the club overnight. First of all, there's a lad here wearing a Stockport County shirt. His owner, Mark Stott, was on a podcast a couple of weeks ago and he was talking about how they're knocking down one of their stands, building a new one, adding 3 ,500 seats onto the capacity. It's going to cost him£21 million. He will only see an additional revenue into the club of£1 million per season. You're not getting a return on that for 21 years.

8:50So it's great for the value of the club and them as an asset, but in terms of PSR and stuff, it's not really going to affect it that much. I'm constantly banging on about how football fans, the day has gone where it's fan-funded. We are putting our prices up by£10. It's not going to make the difference to a football club. What you're basically saying is they don't need to. They don't need to. They do because they know they can get away with it. But listen, I'm an Aston Villa fan and I've seen it over the last year, going from was charging£96 for a Champions League ticket through to now I go into that stadium.

9:32I still love it. Of course I do. It's not the same place. It isn't the same place. That spirit that I know there has been people driven out of the game and it's so easy for people to sit there and go, oh, if you can't afford it, don't go. Are you fucking mad? This game? This game was literally built on the working class. It was built on people that are being driven out of it. So the one way to then drive the revenue, the one way to try and compete with PSR, if you don't want to keep selling all your best players all the time, is to get better at sponsorship. Because, I don't know about you, but I'd much prefer to make£10 million off a brand giving Aston Villa that money than trying to fund it from fans.

10:12How do you get good at sponsorship? Is that not just down to you being successful as a football club, being the biggest club? Do you look at certain teams and think, they're very good in terms of getting the best deal? Getting the best deal at the moment, there are two clubs that are, I'll phrase it in two different ways. There's one club that's just improved massively over the last 12 months and they're getting deals, what feels like every other day. And that's Arsenal. Arsenal. They're absolutely brilliant. They're a commercial team. I don't, must have been on some big bonuses because whatever they're doing there, they're doing something really, really, really well.

10:44However, bringing a deal in and then making sure they stay, That's two different things. So the club that they're the holy grail of how to activate a sponsorship and make sure that they don't just renew, but probably want to give the club more money because they give them so much and so much access is Liverpool. And the way they do that is they make a connection with the fans. They're not just, I hate sponsored ads. You know, get this tea or whatever and say, buy our tea. Yeah, exactly. I love you. Things like that work for all, sometimes will go viral for all the wrong reasons and it works unbelievably well for the brand.

11:28But the players don't want to do that. You tell me, you know, when you're at a club and someone's going, will you go and talk to that camera over there and tell people to buy these products and it looks like you've got a gun to your head. No one's engaging in that content. So the clubs that do it really well and Liverpool that do it really well. The reason they do it is because the sponsors start to understand the fans, start to understand what resonates with them, and then they create content for them. That then means that the fans in turn look at that brand without even knowing it. It's not something where you go, I really like that content, I'm going to go and buy some Nivea products.

12:04It's deeper than that. Rory, you've got a question for Adam? Yeah, I mean, everything that you said, I completely agree with. But can you help me understand why Chelsea then, if this money doesn't necessarily have an impact from the fans to the level that we're being told it does, why are Chelsea making fans firstly spend£71 per game in the Champions League and then buy all four at the same time? So immediately it's a demand for£300. £71 is cheaper than Pazer Villa, by the way. But we don't even have a front of shirt sponsor. Surely don't rip the fans off, don't make the fans spend£71 times four in a week where they just suddenly have that dropped on them.

12:47And go and find yourself a front of shirts once. Surely that would be more lucrative. On the£71 front, I'll answer that first. Why they do it, I don't know. I don't know because I totally agree with you. We had a similar thing. We're obviously in the Europa League now. And it's gone from, I think it was£96 down to, I think it was about£70 a ticket in the Europa League. And they said, but if you buy all four at once, will give you a 20 % discount. We've got some fans going, aren't they really nice? Aren't they lovely? Giving us a 20 % discount. No, no. It's already way too expensive. So we went to the game against Bologna a couple of weeks ago and there was empty seats there.

13:25I've not seen empty seats since we're in the Championship. And we're in the Europa. A couple of years ago, telling me as a Villa fan we were in the Europa League, you'd be fighting for a ticket. There's empty seats, not just because of the price, but because we've been treated like this every single year. In regards to the front of shirt, And they, the so-called big six, and I will call them that, or the media six if you want, they're in an arms race when it comes to sponsorship. So one club gets a£40 million deal, the next one needs to get a£45, the next one needs to get a£50. You'll have sponsors who are already giving you£20 million,£25 million.

14:00The day that you go below Spurs devalues everything. So Spurs get£40 million for that front of shirt. The day that you accept a deal for£35 million, not only could it potentially piss off your other sponsors, but also your brand is then worth less than Spurs. But you'd be better off having a£35 million sponsor than none, wouldn't you? First of all, I don't know whether they've had an offer of£35 million. No, no, of course, but hypothetically. But potentially not, because the repercussions of that is you're then getting less than Spurs, and in that arms race, that could be really damaging long term.

14:32Why is that damaging, sorry? The reason it's damaging is because in an arms race, you've always got to be one-upping each other, especially within that big six. So if you think about, and also back to my point a second ago around, if you've got sponsors giving you£30 million now and they're only getting so much access and they've signed that deal for four years, and then all of a sudden this new brand that's come along and gone, I'll give you£5 million more and I'm the logo on the front of the shirt, I'm getting 10 times more access, 20 times more visibility. So it's a real fine balance. By the way, Chelsea are missing out on a huge opportunity I've just spoken about how clubs aren't community assets anymore and particularly in the Premier League for optics they've got an open goal there just to put the foundation on it or to put a charity on it until they get that brand in there Juventus did it last year, I don't understand why Chelsea don't

15:34Welcome to our new game called Shot on Target Brought to you by Skybet Paul Sculls is back with me once again And the fans are here Hello Hello Here is how the game is going to work It's Scullsy and me versus the fans So you're going to spin that wheel Now? Not yet Right And whatever it lands on, whatever the number is, we've got to say a Premier League footballer who's made those appearances. So if it finishes on 1-2-5, we'll think of a player. And then you think of a player. And we'll see who gets closest here. So we've got a... What's your nickname? StatGPT. Stat...

16:22Baz, because you won the quiz last year, you're the captain. OK. So you're the deciding vote if you need one as well. OK. So, and it's the best out of three. Scalzi. Runner. Wheel away. Wheel away? Who was the wheel of fortune? Who was it? Who was the host of that? Who was it? It was Campbell. Somebody Campbell, make you Campbell. 500. 500. 500. 500. 500.

17:01We've won. What do we need? We've won already. 1-0. 1-0. How did you win? You'll work it out in a minute. Do we get a guess first? Patience Ellie, patience. Do we get a guess first? Premier League who's got closer yeah yeah do it we're going to go we're going to go with Paul Scholes what do you know it is that well he probably knows his own game that's ridiculous I didn't stop it on 500 though did I no let's go with you then if we've lost let's go with Baz definitely not me mate is it no this is on you it's all on me come on Baz go with you I was going to go with me initially until Paul intervened I've played 508 games Paul has played 499 Do you not think we'd have gone for Jamie if he was close?

18:00I just thought you might have just been the couple out and he was a bit closer playing, you know Right, 1-0 to Ruggs Spin again Bit slower this time, took ages that one, isn't it?

18:15200

18:18Fans will go first on this 200 200 200

18:29That's pretty much bang, I saw that stat He's reading our lips He is, but we're going with Bakayo Saka So that's not your guess, that's his That's the new Arsenal fan The team are here, so... It's actually his guess. No, no, it doesn't have to be my guess. Matthew, I've been told before I come on to him, a bit of a stat, a bit of... He remembers games and numbers. I've got a couple of stats. OK. Who are you going for? Are you getting told in the year? No, I'm not. You're listening there. I've just worked it out. I've seen Thierry Henry, he put a post on the other day. It was for Saka's 200th game, wasn't it?

19:07It might have been. Yeah. There we go. In all fairness, you've got the fella that played 500 games next year. 499, boss. Joddy, Paul. OK, they've gone... I think Saka's got bang on 200. That's one-all, innit? But what do you reckon? 200. Who would... Man United or Liverpool play around about 200? I know Maguire was 250 one of the other day. Wait, what did you do, Lot? And then you turned around to tell him about my legs. Is that what you did? That's what you did.

19:57We'll go Gabriel. Gabriel? You've only been here two minutes.

20:07Is that GBT? Gabrielle, 167, and the fans were right. Saka, 200 appearances. We'll have that. That's a round of applause for getting 200. You could have also had Toby Olderweirwald, 200, or Damari Gray. I was thinking Damari Gray. We on? Right, this is for the winner. Sudden death. Oof. It's hard to have been 500. We get to go first.

20:49Yeah, that's a great shout. That's a great shout. Do you want my opinion? No. Flav.

21:04Come in, come in. Do you have a husband? Yeah. I like him. OK. OK, he's got his approval. Vlad's approved of it. I know quite a few... Have you been on the record? 67. Record. You're very mad at record 60. Have you chosen it? We have. He's explaining to Gordie. Your working's out. Yeah, we've got the maths, mate. Oh, go on. Hey. Oh, it's on your head. Well, I mean... Say it before they get one. I'm protesting. Hang on, can I come in? I protest this. They're not on board with this. They got this wrong. What's that? No. If I watch. We've got ours. Come on, you just go with yours. We're going for Steven Gerrard.

21:50Really? See? I told you. I've played more than Steven Gerrard. He's played more than you. Well, you know what? Let's just do me, because I'm closer than that. So we'll win. So we know that. Not in the spirit of games. Who's going to have winning first? I told you, I literally said that. 508 games, Stephen Gerrard, 504 games. Yeah, I knew I'd beat Stephen Gerrard. I was going to go. We were going to go for David James. Let's have a look at David James. Can we revolt and get a new captain? Because he's Adam Merritt. I've had enough. You can sack him, though. Tell me. Aaron's also coglier. Don't bother.

22:29Have you done been skipped with the last three? I was going to go with David James. He's a new play of late 500. Heskey. Yeah, Heskey or Jamie James we were going to go with. He went to Lampard, didn't he? 516 for Heskey. Would it be the one? I'll steam it to Campbell as well. So we've won. Yeah. Well, if you chose, I feel like you're... Do we need another spin? Which is fine. That should have been a warm-up play, didn't it? See what we're dealing with. That first one was a warm-up. See what we're dealing with here. This is our captain. We haven't got a chance, haven't we? Do you want one more?

22:58Yeah, one more. One more. Can we actually finish one just to prove a point? Flav captain. yeah I tell you what what if they change the captain can we change the captain how's this happen hang on hang on just before you do we're winning 1-0 because none of us are on that board you two are on it so we're winning surely so you pipe down you're not even my vice captain now he's got to change your room he's got to change your room he's got to change your room he can have no complaints he's wanted enough Everton managers sacked over the years don't worry make a decision who's in charge Flav. Flav's a captain.

23:32No problem. We'll have Flav. Yeah. 250. 250, we're first. Harry Maguire. Right, OK, we know the answer. Yeah, Bernardo Silva. Bernardo Silva. Who are we going with? Harry Maguire. So Harry Maguire's got 274 appearances. Oh, no. I saw him get presented with a 250, something like the other week. Premier League appearances. That's what we're playing, aren't we? That's what we're playing? Yeah. Oh, Leicester as well. That might be an easy one. It is. 250 United games. Oh, yeah. OK.

24:08Bernardo Silva has played 273 We won it by one By one We won a manager By one The new manager bounce The new manager bounce I mean I got a point I don't think it's too true We won a manager We need a winner That only makes you two. That's two. Oh, my God. Flav, if you don't get this right, you're worse captain. No, I'm brilliant. Don't worry about me. Flav. 300. Come on, Luke. Hang on. Oh, I've got it. No, you don't. Go on. You just stay there. Don't worry about it. Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. It's Gareth Barry. Not everything is Gareth Barry. No, no, no. We've got a decent one.

25:02Stop looking at me. Just have an answer. It doesn't matter. No. We'll see what he's saying. No, he's played more. Why is it always meant to be... Because he knows. I've got a note about Brentford players, am I? What do you want from... Always meant to be... Rory. Everything. Rory. Come on, mouth. Who's yours? Mouth. I'm telling you. I'm telling you. I've said three. Flav. Flav. Flav. I've literally got a space for you. What's going on? You've said the city player. Can I say another one? I don't believe that one. Go on then. Who? I reckon. Come on, give me something. There's a laugh at him, because he's a playful.

25:40I'm going to have to push it for an answer. Harry Kane. It's not Harry Kane. Harry Kane? No, no, no. Do you remember saying Rory, Rory, Tenchi? Oh, the swat... No. Flav, are you the captain? Yeah, I've lost control. Did he have drug, where is the answer? Bit rogue. Do you want to lock it in? Yeah, lock it How many's he got Lock it and load it Lock it We'll go You guys No, because We know we've got to get Exactly bang on 300 Yeah We can just go Higher or lower What is it? Don't tell us 230 230 230 Premier League appearances Rory How's it done that Rory? I said Christian Eriks Rory Why did you tell it?

26:21Now they can just say What they said before That's cheating Yeah, cheating Spin again Spin again Playing again Who could we say? D-A-R. Who could we say? Who you said before. You can just say you again. Because it was 2-7-3 and 2-7-4. Yeah, we'll say one of them. We're not saying Harry Maguire. Take Harry Maguire out. Yeah, all right. OK? Well done, Eddie. We didn't submit that answer. Trent Alexander-Arnold. He did shout, did he? I drove with him. He did shout before. Sorry. 259. Hey! We've won, haven't we? Hang on, hang on. You can't just go away. Who's won that? Us. Us. 230, 259. We're a nine out.

26:56Closest to 300. Closest free on Rizal paper in that That's it for Shot on Target Thanks to Skybet See you soon

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29:53Exactly that. Yeah, yeah. So they made it as long as possible so that people didn't call it that afterwards. I still think the best asset that was up for sale or has been up for sale over the last 12 months was Everton Stadium because typically when someone calls it that name, it's usually that name for a long time or for good. It's unfortunate. It's not the catchiest name in the world. But yeah, Tottenham Hotspur Stadium is called that so that it hopefully never catches on. Yeah, because every time you... Clubs really care about... Sorry, Flav, do clubs really care about that, though, if they're losing out on money?

30:31Because to us fans, we feel like they don't really care what the stadium's called as long as they're getting paid. No, sorry, what I mean is Tottenham Hotspur made the decision to call it something clunky so that when they bring a sponsor in, so let's say they bring in Adidas, the Adidas Arena, people then call it Adidas Arena. The other thing they've done as well, they've stopped people by calling it the Tottenham Hotspur, whatever they've called it, they've stopped people calling it White Hart Lane. So they've eroded... There are a few select few of Spurs fans that just will not let it go. I'm for one, I don't like the idea, it's called the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium, but when you're watching boxing, you hear it.

31:04when there's Beyonce concerts NFL you hear the Tottenham Oxford Stadium and I was wondering how do you quantify the value of that brand awareness is it difficult to do I'd imagine well yeah I think in broadcast it's very difficult to there are YouGov surveys and all that sort of stuff that could probably pull that information but I don't have those in my mind that is a shame I've got a question that is a little bit off topic but it's still to do with the commercial side of things how beneficial slash frequent is it that a club a top club maybe a big six club will go out there and sign a player from Japan, for example.

31:39I remember Arsenal signed a player called Takuma Asano. He was never going to play for Arsenal. They did it just for shirt sales sponsors or some sort of Japanese-Asian support. How beneficial is that? I couldn't say whether they definitely do it for those reasons or not, but it's hugely beneficial. We've seen it with Spurs and Son, right? The amount of fans they have in that area now and the amount of brands that they can now attract because of that, it's massive and sometimes it pays for those transfer fees and wages tenfold Does it shock you that not as many teams do that? I don't I don't think many teams Are there many teams that aren't doing it?

32:19Yeah I mean I can't haven't done it over the years I can't think off the top of my head a player that's been brought in I mean Son ended up being world class No but if you look at Chelsea down the years Chelsea had a big core of African players in their team and if you go to Africa now different countries in Africa. Chelsea are massive over there because of that. And I think, obviously, we don't see it as often in terms of massive fan base coming with their flags and stuff, but it does have an impact, I think, on that, for sure. How much does on-field performance play in it? Because you talk about the best two there, Liverpool and Arsenal, the two top teams, the two best teams in the league now.

32:56When you were saying the best teams are going to be, I was just expecting Man United. how much does the poor performance on the field affect? So Man United are amazing at attracting sponsors because the brand is absolutely huge. Liverpool and Arsenal are top of the league. It's no coincidence because they also have the money to spend how much Liverpool do spend that spending in the summer. And that's because their business is set up in a really good way. They're not having to get into more debt like Manchester United have to every summer. They've got things set up in that way so that they can then increase those sponsorships year on year.

33:31In terms of performance, it'll definitely have an effect, but then there are those clubs like Manchester United who, at the moment, get£100 million for their technical partner and then West Ham finish above them and they get£5 million. Because the value to that brand, will they get 20 times more exposure? Will they get 20 times back than West Ham? Will Umbro do with West Ham? Probably. Ed Woodward once said, didn't he, quite famous, said that the football on the pitch doesn't impact what we can do off the pitch commercially it was almost pissed everyone off but it was like they're thinking that we're in big trouble but I think he's probably right he wouldn't say it if it probably wasn't right at that time but what Scoles he just said though but if you continue to miss out on Champions League football it doesn't matter how big you are that revenue is massive isn't it it is a huge part of it it will bite eventually but I think United are that big they're always going to be there What if Man United go down will they still be able to generate the same income?

34:33More than you's lot They can't be still with the exposure to the Premier League Can I ask you about something that happened last season and I got a little bit of criticism but you know probably quite cool for the sponsors where Mo Salah gets the phone with the Google Pixel and takes a selfie or I don't I can't remember exactly did someone was positioned right to just give me straight away I mean how big would that have been for the company? For the company themselves well I think first of all I understand that's probably going to piss off like the football purists they just would absolutely hate that and I get that however I from a marketing perspective loved it because I don't think it really interfered with the play much I felt like it was still pretty authentic I think Liverpool fans in the cot that got that image what an image that is for them to be included in the brand themselves I think it was a 10 % increase in brand opinion with Liverpool fans after it.

35:30I think it was a 12 % increase in word of mouth. And I think I was talking about YouGov surveys earlier. YouGov did a survey on that exact piece. And that 10 second moment was worth£1.1 million to that brand. So, yeah, the football purists might not like it, but the club's getting revenue from it. It didn't really disturb it. It did something amazing for fans. Will we see more of that? I don't think we will because it needs to be authentic. because if it's not, the second it's not authentic, fans and football purists, then it adds for the brand. Gareth, what do you think about it? Well, I was going to say, I remember that picture actually being on the front of the Echo, and so, you know, they've gained some benefit from free advertising on the front of the Echo as well.

36:08I thought it was a little bit weird, but, you know, I'm a man of a certain age, and, you know, I think, like, my son thought it was pretty good, and I'm like, nah, do you know what I mean? But it comes on to what I was going to ask, which was sort of, you know, the optics of things and the morality of things and what fans might think about things, how much is that considered? Because I know through some of the stuff I've done, so I'm on the Liverpool supporters board, and we had some quite intense conversations with the club about their partnership with the Maldives, because for LGBT plus visitors to that place, it's not great.

36:44And so we were saying, well, you've got fans who are LGBT plus, so do not consider that type of thing. and there was a lot of backwards and forwards about it. Ultimately, they've still gone ahead and done it. But when it's something like, it's a questionable regime, it's loans, there's a Blackpool fan in here, or there was before, they had Wonga on the front, didn't they, at one point, which was like a payday loan company. So how much is that coming into their thinking, do you think? How much do they think, how much can we get away with before the fans are going to be up in arms? I think that's exactly it.

37:15I think they think, how much can we get away with before they do it? But certain clubs know how to rally around and really give it to the club and they've got really great fan associations and be able to really put it on them. Some clubs, not so much.

37:34Tell us about what is going on in Syria with the match balls. So this is actually a new one for me as well. I was at an event last week and the marketing director, whoever he was, was doing a talk with Shevchenko and they were talking about how in 100 games in Serie A they will pause the game after a goal's gone in, swap the ball, then you can buy that ball. You actually see him doing it. The shoulder camera shows him putting the ball in the bag, don't they? Yeah, put the ball in the bag. Put it somewhere and then obviously it came under loads of scrutiny, as you can imagine, but then Scott McTominay's, the ball that Scott McTominay scored with went for 32 ,000 euros.

38:15Where's that money going? I've looked everywhere for this. So you'd assume it was charity. For 32 ,000 euros? You'd assume it would be charity, wouldn't you? I've looked everywhere, I don't know. There was no public record. I actually think, I've seen the faces you pulled when he said that. But, I mean, once the ball's gone in the net, if that was going to charity... If it goes to charity, it's brilliant. What I'm saying is the game's stopped. It's not going to charity, though, I don't think it's imagine it was imagine the Premier League a ball that was scored every goal that was scored in the Premier League I mean there's a multi-ball system around the pitch anyway that ball's what's it take 30 seconds to kick off again a minute to kick off again the ball could probably get back to the halfway line quicker than getting it out what happens if you score a hatchet and you've got to buy your own ball you know what that's actually what they asked them there as well and they've kind of given a woolly answer to it you can keep the paid one but what I'm saying I actually, if that was going to charity, listen, where's StatGBT?

39:17How many goals would be scored in the Premier League in a season? I wouldn't even know. I reckon about 1 ,000. We concede about 100, so there's a starting point. Here's a plus two. 380 games, three a game. Probably about 100. Let's see, whatever it is. Yeah, about 800. I mean, imagine that money going to charity. See, 1 ,150 was the last season. You're flying on this video, aren't you? Would that be something you think could work, or would you not like that? Because I've seen your face initially, but Rory. If it was a force for good, I think I'd be behind that, yeah. I think that's a good idea.

39:56I think that would be amazing for the Premier League. The way you cringe is where the club that you love, that you put everything into, is being leveraged for something that's not great. I think that's where it rankles with you, isn't it? Yeah, so this isn't for charity, as I say. I've looked at everyone. If they were doing it for charity, they definitely would have said it. And it's by an NFT company. So when you get the ball, you can scan the ball and you get a digital version of it as well. So, yeah. I thought that came out about a year ago. You had this and you lost this. Food kill. What was that?

40:24Oh, it's not my idea. I was never trying to convince you to buy one in the first place. You ruined it with the NFT chat. How much did he pay for the little car that brings the footy on the wall? One of the most annoying ones at Spurs was the Squid Game, because we were getting batted every week. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you turn up and there's some melt in a costume standing next to you, like, I don't want to see that. Yeah, we had that. So this is about timing as well. There are so many opportunities to do all this stuff. Unfortunately, Squid Game was coming out, I think it was around Christmas, wasn't it?

40:53Yeah. I think you'd not won in about seven or eight games. Yeah. So it's one of those where they sign a deal, they have to do it there and there. Yeah, Daniel Levy's sitting there going, fuck, we signed that Squid Game for. It does feel like there are people involved at times who just don't get football. You know, like when Warrior were making Liverpool's kits, there was a sign at the Ups that said something like, what was it? We come not to play. What does that mean? That's what it was. It was describing the team. Our version of that was, you know, the American football owner. What's it called, that show?

41:28They've got an American football owner. It's quite a big show. I forget what it's called. Hampton and Richmond is the... Ted Latter. Tad Lasso. And do you know what they did? They filmed at Stamford Bridge. But can you just believe how appalling this is, this kind of... We have a banner up for Ray Wilkins. And they amended the banner. They amended Wilkins' banner to chime with the show. So whatever the... I don't watch the TV show, but whatever the guy in the show is, they amended the banner that is our sort of devotion and our homage to Ray Wilkins and what he did for Chelsea. both as a player and an assistant manager.

42:05And they made that fit with the narrative of this poxy TV show. Who signs that off? How can that possibly be? That would have been done in the editing rooms in America somewhere, wouldn't they? They wouldn't know. That's a problem because Chelsea, anything to do with Chelsea, they should have had to sign off completely. But is Todd Bowley signing off? They played 4-4-3? Todd Bowley, yeah. Listen, I just want to jump in because you normally were talking before about the match ball. I think we probably all agreed it would be a good idea if it went for charity. If there was one match ball from your club that you could have, or a goal that was scored...

42:40Aguero goal, definitely. So you're Aguero. It's too easy, aren't you? Oli 99. Istanbul, two Arsenal for us. Which one? I've got to be honest. The one that's ballooned over the bar to win. You know, the missed penalty. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It'd be one or two. It'd be Di Matteo, our first trophy for 25 years, Di Matteo, Middlesbrough, Wembley FA Cup, or Lampard breaking the record at Villa Park? One of those two. I thought you were going to say Drogba. Everyone, any final. Everyone will be going for that ball. Either European Cup. Giggs, semi-final goal. Yeah, it's a shout. I think I like the football from the 99 final as well.

43:19It was a really nice Nikon. I've seen it in the museum. I like the football as well, but obviously the goal is iconic. El? It would definitely have to be promotion. I'm too young to see the European days, so Ryan Yates' sort of goal but it's more of an own goal by Levi Colwell to get us promoted for the first time in 23 years. Lovely. Gascoigne's free-kicking 91. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Long time, innit? I'd probably take Michael Thomas and then I'd set it and buy a load of different ones.

43:53Vaz? Bye, Munich. God, it'll be. Greatest night ever, that one. Which one? Trevor Steen. I put it in for the series. It's a goal, isn't it? So if you get it. If I get it, what? Is it the first goal? The first goal that just killed it. Trevor Stephen, down at the street's end, would be the ball. What about yourselves from your careers? Ooh. Giggs is the one from me. Oh, our own balls, I mean. I don't think anyone will sign them.

44:25Now I'm feeling about... Fucking hell, you hear that man, you said? Now I'm thinking about Paul Scoles as well Sorry Paul You go Giggsies

44:44The one you scoured it already took mine One of the Champions League final No I'm trying to think of like a game for Liverpool Stephen FA Cup FA Cup final I was just thinking Iconic Like a really What would you say is like one of the when you think of Chelsea and Gary fans when I think of other clubs you do think of Michael Thomas I thought you were going to say Lewis Garcia Garcia Garcia Garcia Garcia Garcia that didn't cross the line it didn't go in though did it? it's not really a ghost goal it never went in either I'll go for the ghost goal get me in the good books with the Chelsea fans again can I ask you why Everton charge£6.50 for a donut that's amazing what do you say?

45:27That's what I want to know. Can I ask him why Everton had£6.50 for a donut? We're talking about rinsing the fans. Donuts. We had Everton, I had Everton's CEO in the studio the other weekend. Did you ask that? That was the big thing, yes. What was the... Why is it£6.50? I can get four for a pound in bloody co-op. But what was her answer? He didn't have one. He said when he comes on next year, he'll have the full answer for me. He didn't have a donut? Bullshit. He said he liked the donut, but£6.50. But back to the optics, Liverpool at one point had a deal with Dunkin' Donuts or whatever. It was a massive donut touching the This Is Anfield team.

46:03Really? I like respect the club. So this is exactly it. And this is going back to talking about how some clubs can do it right, some clubs aren't quite doing it right. And it is about having people who understand football, understand that culture, understand how to connect with a fan in the right way and not piss people off. And if you do it right, it can be amazing. if you do it wrong, it can actually have the detrimental effects on a brand because now when you're driving down the motorway, you'll never go to Dunkin' Donuts because in your head, you're like, they're the ones that do that to me.

46:31Yeah, yeah.

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48:40Adam, players now, are they more receptive to sort of commercials? You think sort of the modern player understands it a lot more? They've probably got their own, haven't they? Their own sponsors as well. Yeah, so let's have all been doing this 10, 15 years, but even in that 10, 15 years, I've seen a massive change. Years ago, we were working at a club with three pretty high-profile players and we had an hour shoot booked in with them. Everything was like scheduled. do you know what it's like when you're shooting, everything has to be to the minute? And one of them walks in and went, you've got 10 minutes with me, I've got to go and pick up my kids.

49:10Name names. He has a lot more money than me, I'm not getting enough a libel.

49:19He was just like, no, and I was like, but we've got all of this, trying to explain it to him and his team and everything like that. He was just like, you've got 10 minutes, do you think you're more important than my kids? And it was like, fucking hell. We've also had it where players have walked in and pretended they don't speak a word of English, forgetting that I've been doing three months of research on them and watching them, I'm like, mate, you speak better English than I do, which is evident today, I can't even get my words out. So, you know, we've had everything. That was then. Now you are seeing it change a little bit.

49:46You're seeing players wanting to be a bit more like Martin Keown and being involved in everything. Not necessarily because they're getting paid any extra money, but actually it gives people a bit of an insight into who they are. Like, no matter what, you'll know footballers will always get stick online. But I think when you humanise them a little bit and people give them that kind of insight into, we're people, we're not robots. Back in the day, the only time we'd ever hear about a footballer's lifestyle is when they've done something bad and it's in the newspaper. Now, you can kind of show that good side.

50:15Now, don't be wrong, that's not twerking in the changing room. That's maybe showing pictures of your kids at the weekend, showing you that you're a dad or, you know, showing that human side. Or is it doing the Casalero del Diablo? Oh, the Rooney advert. That's classic. Yeah. Were you in that? Have you guys ever had to do an advert where you've been like, I ain't doing this? I've done an advert, yeah.

50:40No, I wasn't saying I didn't have to be in it. I wasn't very good for sponsors, man. I didn't really like it, even any shit like that. You should have had me. I was in one in Rome. A Nike advert. 2002 World Cup, was it? One with Cantona turns up. Yeah. It's a big cage. Yeah, in a big cage, yeah. FIFA as well we'd actually played Arsenal away and I had to fly in a private jet with the Arsenal afterwards you had to beat us things with Vieira Robert Perez Freddie Lundberg teams of three weren't it it was like you rude yeah there was like Edgar Davids Seedock yeah yeah yeah there were some great teams in that I think you were some good players you were on FIFA as well weren't you late 90s the front cover yeah can I sound like David Beckham I don't know that's two out of 20 years you found.

51:29Yeah, I was, yeah. I couldn't play the game. I had to go to Amsterdam and meet Edgar Davids. He was fucking whist. I didn't have a clue how to do it. Not to present. A FIFA game. I just had to pretend. I had no idea what to do. What was it like being with Beckham? You know, when that sort of exploded? Was that sort of something in the gestion room to take the piss out of him a little bit? Yeah, look, he loved it, didn't he? And he was right for it. And he cashed on it, didn't he? Of course, and still is now. He's brilliant. We took the piss. of course we did but in the main he knew what he was doing didn't he what are the fever football adverts we can remember that didn't stand out the Brazil Brazil one where the game with aggressive in the airport in the airport yeah that's right and the canton where he lifts his colours did Barcelona do that yeah somebody did a homage to it recently somebody did their version of the airport one there was like a new version of that like that one's timeless what about Ian Rush with the oh yeah Yeah, Stanley with a milk.

52:28People will remember that. Who were they? Who were they? Yeah. You just had the picture in the yellow and green shirt. The first picture of that shirt, you all had to wear mustaches and weird hats and stuff because that was worn like many years before. Were you in that? No, I wasn't, no. That was a year before, I think. Jason McAteer washing goal. Was it washing goal? Yeah. There was a Reebok one, wasn't there, where the whole of the stand, everyone had a muzzy and a thing on to be, you know, the scouts, I think. the dad's funny joke.

53:02I like the switch. It's a Nike advert where this kid and Ronaldo clash bodies and they switch personalities. Ronaldo, shit. This kid's unreal and then they play each other again, bang into each other again and switch. Unbelievable. Switch back. Nike have killed it really. Okay, what's, when you think of a club shirt, what's a one club shirt and sponsorships? if I ask you to name one club not even your own of course Tangerine and Graffa Pirelli Inter Milan I was going to say Sharp Man United I think Muller Villa as well even though we didn't have them for that long Peter Hotspulham I think Man United Sharp and Arsenal JBC Juventus Sony Nintendo Fiorentina was good Mars at Napoli as well T-Mobile T-Mobile and Bayern, I think.

53:56A lot of brands getting shout-outs. Has anybody got any backhanders or anything like that? Yeah, probably City, for the fuck's sake. I've not said anything to have done that. This is the first episode. This is the first episode he's never said the word. I didn't want to jump in because he'd probably accuse me of that. City brother, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was actually City that, you know, I was talking about the arms race earlier in regards to the big six, but it was City that started that. So one of the deals that changed football really was the Etihad deal. So before Etihad came in, they had Thomas Cook, obviously the same industry, very different businesses, but the same industry, giving them£1.5 million per season for the front of shirt sponsor.

54:39A couple of years later, they got£40 million from Etihad per season. Qualified for the Champions League. I thought you were so excited to be honest with that. You've got to caveat that, that also did include stadium rights and sponsor ground rights, sorry, the training ground rights as well, but the highest earning stadium rights at the time was Arsenal at 2.8 million. So take off 3 million, still talking a rise from 1.5 to 37 million. What was like United shirt sponsor at that time? A lot less than that. But what it did was it set that tone. So again, United couldn't ever go lower than that. Next time they went 5 mil, Chelsea went 5 mil, Arsenal went 5 mil, and then it's just gone.

55:19So we all need to thank Man City. The top five, big five, so-called big five. Six, big six. No. Six, sorry, I forgot about you. Oh, this is you when I spot. What about all these deals? Adam, I'll go on, sorry. You know all these deals where there's like some... There's like one member of staff in an office above some laundrette somewhere and no one really works there. Is there no investigation into some of these companies before the deals are signed, whether independently or by the clubs themselves? Are there clubs just not care who to get into bed with? Well, I think some clubs do. I think some clubs do.

55:55I think some clubs, as I said before, go as far as they can before they're asked. But in regards to whether there's an investigation, the only kind of investigation that truly happens is if it's associated to the owners, and that's then ran through a fair market value thing. That's why, back then, I hate the fact that Man City did that because it's just pulled the other six away from everyone else. But now, if Villa tried to do that, we absolutely couldn't do it because it's against the rules back then. They didn't break a rule. Obviously, they broke loads of other rules. But, I mean, that one...

56:23Allegedly. Allegedly. Allegedly. You can come again. Allegedly. Allegedly broke loads of other rules. But that one, at that point, didn't break a rule. They were playing within the rules. Adam, I want to thank you for coming in, because that is the end of the fan debate, brought to you by Skybet. Make sure you join us next time. APPLAUSE

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