Giorgio Chiellini: Roy Keane Fandom & Messi vs Ronaldo | The Overlap on Tour: Unseen | Sky Mobile

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1:40We've got the whole restaurant Wow It's a who's who oh John Luke be highly God rest his soul. No John Loka I think we should get our pitches up in a we're gonna go. Are you go sake? Oh, maybe Yeah, Michelle rude rude. Hold it. I'll just up above

2:05Go sit there Ian. You're the most you're the friendliest. Are we having full dinner and everything tonight? Of course having a full dinner George is an order for us. He's not other specialties Can't come to Italian restaurant in Turin and not let the local order. He might know what we like You just gotta trust him Roy. Trust him. I'm not good like that. Trust the local knowledge. How will he know what we like? What do you like? I'll trust him to choose a selection of things that I'm happy with. Who's this? Yeah, but what you're happy with. What you're happy with. Yeah, exactly. I'm a simple man, super passive.

2:38You're going to look at the... It's not mine. You're going to look at the menu. A guy's in his restaurant that basically he probably half owns. Yeah, but it doesn't mean to say he knows what we like. I don't know what you like. Tell him what you don't like. I can't read the menus, I can't do it. You can't read the menu? No, I just, oh, I hate it. We'll let him order for you then. Who's the owner? No, George, when he comes in. No, no, no. The owner... When people take a half an hour to read the menu, you must know pretty quickly what you want to order, don't you? I sometimes like to... Come back in a half an hour, I'm looking.

3:13No, no, no, it's the people who change what's on the... Oh, true, that's true. The ones who want to put that with that. Yeah, yeah. Would you be able to do that for us? And they go, we're back in five minutes, The only thing I don't like are anchovies. I don't like anchovies. I don't like green sauces like pesto. I don't like anything like that. I think everything else is fine. Not a great fan of octopus, to be honest with you. That appears, doesn't it, in restaurants in Italy and Spain. Hey! Welcome to Torino. How are you? You OK? All good? Come on, Giorgio. You're going for the hog round. You're just going for the hog.

3:52Yeah, that's a CD round. Special, mate. This is the Overlap on Tour, Unseen. Brought to you by SkyMobile.

4:05Do you need a house with a wine? Yes. We have a good wine. He's saying that basically you shouldn't order because you don't know what he likes. Do you know what I like? The food? No. Fish and chips?

4:20I like soup. I like soup. I have to let you try some particular dishes of Taurine. Okay. Okay. Yeah, don't worry about that. We'll go with it. And we could find a good Barbarisco, Barolo that I know that you like. Is this the wine? Yeah. Nice. Yeah. You just drink it. It's good to see you. You're looking very good shape. I just retired a few months ago. I lost three, four kilos because I lost all my muscles. Give me some years. Are you doing anything? Are you going to do any kind of exercise? Not yet, because I did a surgery at the meniscus. I've broken last training of my career. Before the final, I broke my meniscus, but I played with some injection.

5:00And after that, I just fixed it a few months ago. Yeah, a few weeks ago. One month ago, my father is a surgeon, then he wanted to do it. Then I waited for him. But that's a surgeon? Yeah. That's a result, isn't it? I just have one meniscus and one ACL. Not bad. That's good. But you injured a lot of players. Yes. I'm sorry, yes. He injured a lot of players. Yeah. Surgery, just a couple. Just a couple. You just on your cruciate? That was your major injury? A cruciate? Yes, but a lot of muscles. A lot of strain and whatever, yes. Especially calves. Your calves? Calf was, yeah. Calf, near the end or always?

5:42No, after 28 years old. That's big. Calf, yeah, not technically good. but we are not so far. Intelligence, smart money. You've got closure after retiring. I know it's still early, but are you happy with your decision? I'm very happy with my decision to do it a little bit earlier than really the fall down. Do you wish you did or not? I think I played on one or two years too many. I really enjoyed till the end and the experience in the US was fantastic. Was it? I said that. I'd like to go to the US. He wants to go to the US. I met your brother at one event. It's a perfect way not to drop from being the captain of Juventus and national team to zero, but just a little bit downhill, enjoying different culture, different type of living the sport, living football or soccer, as they call it.

6:36It's very different. It's much less pressure. And it's a show and entertainment. And we are not happy to that. it's a yeah life or death every week every three days was it always your plan the last few years you thought you were going to go to the States it was my plan but it's not easy to also if it's in it is in your mind sometimes happen that you are yeah playing and I was thinking to do it at 34 but my best years of my career was from 33 to 35 wow until I got my AC I broke my knee that was what happened And after that, I said, OK, it's done. I cannot go there at 38 or something. And I won the Euros, 37.

7:20Congratulations. Yeah, you know, you know. And then the year after, OK, I want to go to the last workout. I missed the qualifier for 2014. I said, I want to play 20, sorry, 2018. I missed it. I want to play 2022 and then retire. But we lost again. And I missed another one and I said, OK, I had this big opportunity and I was trying to figure out to live something different with the family, getting my English better and living a different business vision that they have for football. You know, you mentioned the Euros and you think of that partnership of you and Benucci at the back. Why is it, do you think, that Italy always produces great defenders?

8:12as we all think of Maldini and Berets, obviously the last few years, yourself and Benucci. Is there a reason, is there a mentality about it? Fabio was a big maestro for me. I played with him a lot of years. Because when you were 13, 14, 15, now they're teaching us how to play, how to build up from the goal and to do the pass between the lines and all this stuff. They're teaching me just how to mark. I had to do the little trick in order to not be seen from the referee, but to don't permit the forwards to score. It's like to pull them or just step in before the start of VR. It was a different word.

8:56They taught you this? When it was 14, 15, 16, how to mark into the box, how to... To be aggressive. Be aggressive. But not make some fouls, not pull the shirts. the jersey, but just have a contact with little things that when you arrive and getting older you learn. Like he did with Saka. That's what I was going to say. With Saka, that was a natural reaction for you. Yeah, natural reaction. I had no time to think. You thought, you knew what you thought. But I was very lucid in that situation that I was sure 200 % it was just yellow card. I never was in doubt about that. All the English fans and whatever.

9:43No, it's not fair, it's red. No, it's not red. They said bad things about you. I deserve it. I defended you. No, no, no. Do you think it's yellow or red? No. But what I was going to say to you, in that instance with the game where it was, if you was already on a yellow, would you still do this? No. If it was 120, 120, no. Yeah. 120, yes. 90 with 30 minutes of, I don't know. So you'll be able to calculate all this just in case if it was... You know, when you're like in trance and this type of situation, you know if you have a yellow or not. That's very easy to decide, okay, I could spend a yellow.

10:24And now that was the best moment to spend. You nearly went to play for Sunderland in 2008. Is that right? Yeah, there was top agents. I have a couple of stories to tell you about. The first was for you. I played just against you, of you four. And what's your... Testimonial. Your testimonial. Yes, I was there. Against Juventus. I picked Juventus because... Because of Roy. Because you have a good memory because of Roy. It was the best team I ever played against. We were talking about it this morning. It was the team with Ferrara and Montero. It was Conte, Duchamp, and then it was Vieira, Bocic, Del Piero, Zidane.

11:12And it was the best team I ever played against. They beat us 1-0 in Turin and Stadio de Alpe. I don't think I've ever been... We were absolutely killed. Absolutely killed. It destroyed us. And I think that team, we were getting better each year. And in 98, we obviously got there. But we took two or three lessons off you in that period. For us, Juventus was like a special team macarray, really. When you played for Juventus against Sunderland, it was 2007. Just a pre-season friendly. And after the game, people who were working with Sunderland were saying that you could be available, you were a young player.

11:45I think there was definitely chats. I said yes. I said yes to my agent. To Sunderland. To him. Not to Sunderland. To him. Not to Sunderland. But obviously, listen, there was, of course, issues with money and transfer. But I think they were saying about 10 or 12 million at the time. But you were just young. 10 to 15, something in between there. Was that the wages? That was for the ages. 2007? I think 2007. 2007, probably. Yes. What position was he playing there? Left back. Left back, yeah. Half and half. You still played left back. You played left back against... At the beginning. But you played left back against us for England in 2014 World Cup.

12:27Yes, because at the end we... Yes, we are three centre but very good. And then sometimes Barzali played on the right and sometimes I played on the left. That game I played on the left. In other games Barzali played on the right with Bonucci who was covered in the middle between us every time and then we could switch and change the other fullback. Could be one right back and I could play on the left and one left back and Barzali could play on the right. I didn't like to play on the edge. On the left? No, I prefer to, yeah, obviously if you have to... Always play in the middle, your help, people around, your people support.

13:05If you play on the edge, you have to face, yeah, like a sack or a winger very fast. No, I wasn't, yeah, I run much more, but I wasn't so fast. No, he thinks full-back's easy, he thinks it's easy, full-back. He thinks it's an easy position on the pitch. No way. You're full-back. Yeah. When you're a kid, when you decide to let play the worst kid in the park, in the yard, right there.

13:36Thanks for that. He started in his way, maybe. You spoke about the players now in England, the obsession with teams, particularly coming from Pep with Barcelona. Are the young players in Italy now being taught to play out? Is it exactly the same here? Exactly the same. We are trying to copy. Do you think that's good for everyone just to copy? I think that learning from the best is a good way. Not if you can't do it then. You have to maintain your identity, and our identity is about to have a big defender. Obviously, you can play better than 20 years ago or 30 years ago, but not trying to copy.

14:12Not when you're giving the ball away and you're giving goals away. I think that's madness. Yes, I agree. I think it's OK for Man City and Barca, who've got the players to do, but you see the less teams doing it. Not good. I agree with you. Everyone is different. They have to follow their identity and their values. We won with good goalkeepers, good defence, and sometimes you could find a goal with a nice play from the number 10, Baggio, Del Piero, or whatever. The pride for defenders now is players who can play out from the back, but when you played them, the defenders we've been speaking about, their pride was defending, wasn't it?

14:47Aggression, clean sheets, knocking people over. Now it's about how many passes, how many... I told you before, we have to change this type of mentality. Yeah, we don't lie. People before us don't like that we play every three days or we play not at 3pm, we play one game at 2pm. We have to adapt. We have to try to maintain our identity, yes, for sure. But also we have to be open to different formats, different ways of involving the new generation. But when you look at Italy, Italy are renowned for defending. So I can't understand why they'd do anything to change anything like that. Because no one wants to play against Italy in respect to defending.

15:31Now our best defenders are very technical. Calafiore and Bastogne are very similar. Very good player, but not at all the defender. Italy were poor in the World Cup. I think centre-back now, I think it's the toughest position. I do, because... Nothing a striker having to score, Jamie. No, because think about it. If you're a defender now centre-back and you're talking about being a defender, being aggressive, that's what we're brought up. No player is perfect. No one has got every quality. But if you're a centre-back now playing for the top team, you've got to receive the ball inside your own box from the goalkeeper, from a goal kick.

16:08So you've got to be technically probably what we used to associate a midfield player. Better than the average. More than better, yeah. So you've almost got to have the technical quality of a midfield player in there. and also because the way teams play now, defence is so high you've almost got to have the pace of a striker you're only halfway and if you want to play for like the top teams or the top Champions League teams if you're slow as a centre-back you've got no chance and also you've got to get the ball as I said you've got to have the pace of a striker and the technical quality of a midfielder that's before you'd even get into being a defender or talking about getting blocks and headers and marking in the box that's before you'd even get to that it's tough Where did you grow up?

16:48In Livorno. It's a small town close to Pisa, a tower, a dependent tower. Very small. We know each one. How far is it from here? Three hours and a half by car. Not as far. So how did you, who saw you? So what was the first team you played for? I grew up in, yeah, my neighbour's tomb is called Livorno 9. No, 9 is the name of the neighbourhood. Right. And after that, at 13, I started the Livorno Academy. I went into the Livorno Academy, but I was in the West. There was also Empoli or Fiorentina that was much better. Was you a defender then? I was a Roy Keane midfielder. Worse than you, obviously.

17:35But I was a central midfielder. Yes. And then I usually ran so much and I started to play on the edge, like a win back and then like a left. and then I found my position as a centre-back. So did you find your position as a centre-back at that age? Did you think this is where I should put it? I started 17, 18 when we played back three. I was many times the third and a few times the wing-back. After that, when we played back four, I was always the full-back, but I wasn't good enough technically. In the modern football, I cannot play as a full-back. At that time, yes, sometimes because usually coaches were big defenders.

18:17Yeah, you cannot play just you if you are not so tall. And after that, when I started to play also center, it was easy for me because my technical limits was okay to be a center. And also I spent much less energy running. I was much more using my brain. That's really I did the big step. I was still in the national team as I left back. Not as bad, but not at the same level as a high European level. You know, in the Euro final, what was the feeling or the mentality going into it? England are at home, it's at Wembley. I mean, were you confident going into that game even though England had home advantage?

18:56Yeah, we knew that. It was a 37-game unbeaten run, something crazy like this, wasn't it? We knew that was hard. England plays almost every game at home, and it's a big advantage for the Euros. just they played in Rome in the quarterfinals. They played so bad, but they were so effective that we knew that. We wanted to play on their weakness about the pressure. The pressure that there is in England on the national team is unreal. And we have seen also in this game, you know very well. You're aware of that then, obviously, in Italy. Do you think other countries are aware of it? Do you think there's more pressure on England than there is on Italy?

19:37For us, it was a dream. For them, it was just to arrive there. We know that, OK, we can enjoy. Then nobody expects us to arrive at that point and to play for winning the cup. It's much easier when we have seen the year after when we have to reach the qualification for the World Cup. The pressure was not as for us against Macedonia that we cannot lose again that game another time. But it was very different. We arrived at the Euros with almost a beat streak of 30-something results. That was crazy. That's meaning we were a good team. I expected to arrive to the quarterfinal. We played a group stage in Rome that helped us a lot, and we won.

20:21Easy. Boom. Two games, and the third we rested. I had time to recover. We were very lucky. Round of 16 against Austria. Because Austria was, they won so much. They weren't real. and we were lucky. Gold is allowed for a few inches and after that, Chiesa came in and scored. But quarterfinal, we were confident because Belgium, I think they were over their last chance of this famous golden generation. Hazard was injured, De Bruyne was supposed half and half. Instead, he played very well. We didn't expect Docu was unreal. That game, it was the first game of Docu at a tight level. But we were confident.

21:04the Vertonghenhalder battle not yet so good as... Was you worried about Lukaku? Yeah, that was our nightmare. I was injured, I recovered from hamstring, not strained, a little bit less, but I didn't expect to play. I said to Monroberto Mancini, the night before coach, I cannot play, I cannot run fast, I just manage, I cannot play against Lukaku. If I run one time in the space, I say, OK, we'll see, taking anti-inflammatory, I will see tomorrow. We speak tomorrow morning. The day after we had a little warm-up on the field, set pieces, something like, he didn't look at me at all. Neither look at me, how are you?

21:47Nothing. He launched nothing. Snack before the game. We were there. How do you feel, George? I said, OK, we're playing two hours. Let's go. What can I do? Was he trying to get his attention? I had some problems. After that, I decided to drop and every ball arrived to Lukaku in front because I'd never conceded him the depth. Boom, smash him. That's the plan. I don't know why he stayed all the game with me and not with Leo. He likes to come in with the left footy, but I mean that physically he could destroy the Bonucci much more than me. Did he know that you might have been injured or was he trying to play on you because he thought you was injured?

22:31I don't know. I don't know it's amazing how your body can get through a game isn't it before the game you can be no but trust me the whistle goes you're adrenaline yeah adrenaline and the same and after five days I played 120 minutes against Spain and after four days against England 120 at 37 wasn't real but I think that my the brain is really powerful what did you think England's weakness was in the final I know the pressure but where did you think England would have problems against you And they score after two minutes. That's the best situation for them. But if you remember how we started the game, we had the ball, but they really gifted us a corner key with, I don't remember, Maguire's show pick.

23:13They had the ball. We didn't press. They just... Take it away. Yeah. The only thing that I screamed all the game and half time and tried to manage was don't concede them transitions. Maintain the ball, we will have a chance, 100%. but if we want to go there and try to tie the game after five minutes with Sterling, Mount and Harry Kane they could destroy us because on the space... So no counter-attack? Yeah, Bonucci, me, Giorginio, Verratti who could run of these four players and we were the heart of the game, of the team then we don't have to run against Sterling or Mount or concede that we have to maintain the ball and be close and compact everywhere and in this type of situation we could have the possibility to win.

24:04And getting late into the game, the pressure is higher and higher and higher. So by keeping the ball, basically. Yeah, keeping the ball. We've been talking about this. This last summer we've been doing the television and I've obviously played for England in tournaments where... Do you like it? Yes. We never keep the ball well. Let's see. It's a massive problem for us because when you get into it later in the tournament, your legs start to go tired. You can't counter-attack from deep positions. Why do you think we can't keep the ball? What do you think it is when you look at England? Even this summer now, just gone in Spain or in the game against you, we've lost two finals through not being able to keep the ball.

24:38Yeah, I think you know about the team. The idea of Southgate is to be very effective, to be very solid every time, and it worked. Because the results that Southgate had in his career, England never had it. Cheers. Cheers. before you tell us where we're going wrong

25:02it's coming to Rome

25:09I like not the way how they play but how they are very solid every time and they believe it's the best way to arrive but you're solid but you also keep the ball we were yeah We have also different players, with Verratti and Jorginho especially, and Borussia you have to maintain the ball. I've been seeing this type of connection. If you remove Verratti and Jorginho, we cannot have the ball with Calvin, Phillips and Cristante, for example. Even in 2012, you have Pirlo playing in this position, and you play 1 ,000 passes. But it's not just one tournament, it's two, three, four tournaments. And we're trying to work out why we can never keep the ball in tournaments.

25:52I think that you have to use much more your strength. You have a fantastical winger. Also, yeah, you have Jude that is box-to-box midfielder, now plays at hand, but is a box-to-box midfielder. Foden is doing so well this season. Kane is very good at connecting passes and being the link between. You have these type of things. You have the best right full-back after you, now that he's playing. that Kyle is a really, that this is one of the most typical What is that? We tell you what? Do you want this one? Veal, it's veal. I'm not veal. I'm not. I prefer this one. You prefer this one? What's this one?

26:38This one, what's this one? It's like a raw meat. Carpaccio with meat, meat carpaccio. You cannot have everything. That's what I mean. Everyone likes to be like Spain. Not everyone could be like Spain. We told before, I think that England did a pretty good tournament. They could play very well. The only thing I could complain with Southgate, obviously we were talking and it's not easy to be there, and he never tried something different before the Euros, like to find a way to let them play together, Saka, Foden and Berlingham, because Bellingham played as a win-back sometimes, defending on the left, or Foden did it.

27:25Probably tried to find before during that qualification, so easy for England, that you have a lot of time before to find a way to let them play in the right position in order to use them very well. He didn't arrive to the Euros in the way. He had this problem at the Euros, and sometimes you have to take a decision, hard decision, but I think that they were close to win but they didn't play so well together I think what you're saying which I think is interesting when you're looking at your own country you're always looking at the negatives and you're looking at say you play to your strengths and every country does have an identity you're talking about Italy in the past being a strong defender and we've got to be careful not every country becomes the same I feel like that in club football every country we associate I'm very jealous about your roster, about to have food and about to have balling, about to have soccer.

28:22Probably you were jealous to have this type of solidity because we played very well. Yes. That's what we needed. At the end, you really were so close. Because we are talking about penalty. That is nothing. We know very well that everybody could win at penalty kicks. and if England won that game and Rashford or Saka scored, celebrating the best team of the English food of the history of England, sometimes really some details could change everything. We were talking with some friends before about Spain. They deserve to win. But I think they deserve to be kicked out of the Euros because of the penalty of Cucurella.

29:03That's so clear. It's a big mistake like the Lampard goal in 2000. Yeah. And probably if Germany was there, we were talking about a different history, and now Spain is the best. Little details really make the difference in our world. The Overlap on Tour is brought to you by Sky Mobile. The network that lets you roll your data and keep it longer than anyone else. For more information, visit sky.com. Forward slash shop, forward slash mobile.

30:03We'll be right back.

30:07The market's uncertain. Revenue's tight and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K dot com. Post a job for free and get started today. A Mochi moment from Tara, who writes, For years, all my doctor said was eat less and move more, which never worked. But you know what does?

30:48The simple eating tips from my nutritionist at Mochi. And after losing over 30 pounds, I can say you're not just another GLP-1 source. You're a life source. Thanks, Tara. I'm Myra Ameth, founder of Mochi Health. To find your Mochi moment, visit joinmochi.com. Tara is a Mochi member compensated for her story.

31:11If you want to know more about the game's greatest characters, matches that change football forever, and the stories behind the bribes, the bans, and the on-pitch battles, listen to It Was What It Was. It's the Overlaps Football History Podcast, presented by two of the world's best football journalists, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper. Each week we dive deep into the key moments in football history that have shaped the game as we know it. From notorious managers to pivotal matches, we go behind the scenes to bring you the best tales the game has to tell. Stories including one of football's most infamous matchfixers, its first global superstar, or the rise and fall of Sir Alphamsey's England.

31:49Join us at Football University. Take a journey through football's amazing history. Subscribe to It Was What It Was Now. This is the Overlap on Tour, Unseen, brought to you by SkyMobile. No, I'm not doing that. See, that is terrifying. You can watch all of the action from the boys' trip around Europe on SkyMax and Now TV. Oh my God! Do you wish you played in the Premier League? I would have loved it. Yeah? I think that for my... It would have suited you, I think. Yeah, yeah. Not as old, not old. I cannot have played until 37 like I did in Italy. but in my age 26 to 32, 34, I could have played very well and enjoyed a lot.

32:36You would have enjoyed Sunderland? The weather, the beautiful weather. Which club would you like to play? If you could choose Georgia. OK, it's not to leak in some... But, yeah, Italian has a big legacy with Chelsea because of a lot of players. But my team, when I grew up and also when I started to play with Juventus, was Manchester United. I saw Manchester United as a very similar team like Juventus was. I used to see that. And Bayern Munich in Germany. These three teams really were for me very similar. I played with Patrice Vra and they told me the same. Now obviously Manchester United is very different, Juventus is very different.

33:21But at that time to be the strength, the power that this team has also the leadership of the club, like the style was from Igalo. What are we having? What's the speciality? Yeah, agnolotti. Agnolotti. This one's this one? Agnolotti also. Stuffed pasta piemontese. It's not a summer dish, but today it's not so hot that we could try. Do you want to share? Yeah, I'll share. Okay, perfect. Yes, two first and two seconds. I'm going to train in the middle. Yes, yes. It's OK to share to the first course and to the second course. Yeah, yeah. If you want just to try, it's OK. I'm not a big eater, but I want to be a good host.

34:17You've won everything, but the Champions League was the one trophy and then Cristiano was supposed to come and win the Champions League. I think that the first year of Cristiano, in which at the end Liverpool won against Tottenham, we were very unlucky. We arrived at the quarterfinal after beating Atletico in a big comeback. But right before the game against Ajax, we had two, three big injuries of key players. It was me, it was Manzukić, it was Kedira. That's really the spine and the heart of the team. I was missing those games. since Dybala was out the second one, or the first one I don't remember, Douglas Costa, the same, that we really missed the best play.

34:59Also, Cristiano wasn't fit. He recovered for the first game without training, and he was supposed to start from the bench. You know better than me that Cristiano cannot start from the bench in Champions League. That's not really supposed, but he didn't train until the day before. He scored. But we were really unlucky the first year. Then the second year, we weren't good enough to win Champions League. But I think that the first year, I imagine if we had beaten Ajax, we would have faced Tottenham in the semi-final and Liverpool in the final. It's not impossible. We arrived two times to the final, played against Barcelona and Madrid both twice.

35:40It's not easy to beat them two times. And we were unlucky. We lost against Barcelona 2015. 2015, 2015 was the MSN. And Alves, Macerano, Piquet, Alba, Busquet, Niesta, Rakitic, with Xavi on the bench, coming on the bench, and Messi, Neymar, Suarez. I played against that team when I was in Valencia. It was incredible, that team. That front three was... And they found a way to get along together after January, February, and after they were unstoppable. And 2017 against Cristiano with Bale and Casemiro, they found the stability. Because we have beaten Real when they play with Ames as a midfielder and the three forwards and just offensive team.

36:28We defend very well. OK, we defend and then we score. But when they play with Casemiro and Gareth on the bench, and they play with Isco. And Isco really was the people that broke our plan. Was that Cardiff? Yes, but Isco was really unstoppable because he creates superiority right, left and the middle. And it wasn't easy for us to stop them and the situation. He had a beautiful season, Isco, because we could manage Garrett on the left-hand side. We could concede a couple of chances, but do you know what he's doing? OK, go on the depth, coming inside. It's hard, but you could do it. And Benzema, OK, it's hard, but when something like Isco that season was...

37:17You don't know what's coming, bro. Unpredictable. That's the most difficult thing for a defender. I think something that's unexpected. One unpredictable player is much worse than one good but predictable player. But when you played for Juventus in all them big games, your history must when we played for Man United obviously I'm sure the lads at Liverpool are your history can still get you through big games even if you're missing a few players Liverpool definitely got to a big finals on the back of their history didn't it? Obviously we all know that But we are also a little bit unlucky with the Champions League final As a club we are the club that lost more Champions League final in the East We just won two out of nine It's incredible I think when you're in England and you think of a team in Italy I think of AC Milan like when I was because of Champions League especially remember what they've done to remember what they've done to Barcelona but in Italy I think Juventus is seen as the biggest when I think of a team in Italy I think of Juventus Juventus is the best team but for Champions League Milan is 100 % for people maybe outside of Italy because we see maybe the Champions League or the old European look at the numbers of the Scudetto of the Kyber exactly 38 against 20 now this year Inter Milan and 19 AC Milan that's the difference that we have that neither close because we are consistent we are pragmatic we are hard workers in the the value of of the club since 100 years ago was the same and Milan is much more entertainment we see Hollywood that much you know what I think what happened but not every Sunday no matter what you go there and also if it's cold also if it's raining also if you are tired because you play Champions League you win that was in the Juventus mentality We've seen before about Ronaldo coming in there and the way you've described the club and Juventus and the mentality what was it like bringing in a global superstar maybe did that suit the mentality of Juventus?

39:26It was hard at the beginning for all the club because we didn't have one multinational company like Coca-Cola or whatever running into your club and manage all this stuff. We had pressure, we were followed, whatever, also by people when we travelled, but not as when Ronaldo was there. Completely changed. I think that was obviously a very good consequence, also bad, because some players, I don't want to mention, but some players look just at what he was doing at 35, like resting a little bit, managing during the week, like be really 100 % in training just for Champions League but it's not Ronaldo, it's not just the picture and the sponsor Ronaldo was then when you are losing he had the balls to have the, to call the balls no matter what, try to win, shoot from everywhere in order to lead the team to win and it's not easy to do it for a lot of players and yeah, good counts and bad counts I love to play with him because working with him and looking at him every day with little details is very nice.

40:38I was 35 and it was 34 or something, just six months between us. And we weren't obviously at our prime, but it was very funny to play with him. And look how much big is his personality. We cannot say for me it's better Messi or Cristiano, but if I have to pick one for a final Cristiano. Cristiano or Messi? I love to play with Cristiano. And I saw when the game is more difficult, he raises his level of performance. His approach is totally different when we play Champions League instead of... Also, if Champions League is against Bate Borisov, I don't know. For him, Champions League is different.

41:17I'm disappointed that we didn't win the Champions League with him. Could be for him, like, yeah, the biggest trophy of his career because he went to Juventus to show that he could win. Not alone, but the Champions League, we didn't help him so much. You think? The first year. After that, we were getting older. It was like, yeah, one called, yeah, all-in. We did all-in. We weren't lucky we lost, but we tried. Would your players back in Italy have a clause where you could go for 10 million or 20 million? No, I didn't have it. No, but players would, yeah. Yeah. But you never believed, you just thought...

41:57I signed a contract. I arrived in Juventus 2004, then went on loan and signed another contract 2006, and then 2008, and then 2010, but because I was growing up so much. And after that, I signed 2014 and 2018. I arrived almost close to the end, just at the beginning of my career, but I did the step very naturally, not asking money every time. They reached out to me in order to... allow me to think to live. OK. So before you even think about it, they already offered you a deal. Yeah. But the Bosman rule changed. Did the Bosman rule affect players in it? Were they not thinking about running their contracts down?

42:42No? It's dependent on the people. Everyone is different. Every player is different. You are different from me and maybe you ask after one game you ask for more money or I'm OK with what I have. Yeah, probably. No, no, no. No, everyone is with me. But at the end, for me, Juventus was like a family. Yeah, it happened also a bad period that you think to live, but neither really think to live. And also I was lucky that it was getting better and better. In that year that I was thinking about Manchester City, because we arrived for two season in a row, seven plays. And the pressure on Juventus to be seven said, oh, I want to play Champions League, I want to play at that level.

43:24OK, I'm not doing well like my teammates, but I'm better than them at that time. And I wanted to play for a better team. And I loved England's style, English style. That could be a good chance for me to go there, but fortunately it didn't happen because of my legacy with Juventus. It was up in the play. You know with Juventus, when they got demoted to the second division, was there anybody that came for you then? No, but because... You were never going to know. I was 22. Yeah, 22. For me, it was not so bad. It's okay. One year, but I started, I did one year and I played 23 appearances. Right. Half and half almost.

44:05Maybe a little bit less than half of my first year in Juventus. It was okay. Second year in Serie B, okay, okay. I could stay in Serie B, in second division one year, but I'm going to be a starter and grew up to be a starter of Juventus in Serie A the next year. It's okay. I wasn't in the same situation. So it worked out for you. Yeah, I was in the same situation as Buffon, Del Piero, Treseguet. They're right, they won Camoranese, they won the World Cup, and then they played the second division. No, I wasn't. Did they all stay? Did they stay there? Del Piero, Buffon, Treseguet, Nedved, Camoranese, they stayed.

44:42Not easy. That's massive, huh? Massive. But the story of Buffon was funny because the sport director at the time went to him, OK, GG, there is Barcelona I don't know what team are offering us This million, Manchester United What do you prefer? But why can I stay? Do you want to stay? Really? OK, for us, you can stay Did I give him a new contract? Or he just stayed with his same contract? I don't think so Not more money If it was a new contract, it was for less money Because in second division That's amazing OK, I could stay here one year It's not a problem for me because sometimes when you feel like a family and probably all of you, you had this feeling.

45:27Yes. The supporters loved you for that. The supporters must have loved the players for staying. Yeah. Yeah, they were very grateful to them. Forever. They loved the player that decided to stay. Was there any players that decided to leave? Most of the players decided to leave, but it's acceptable for me and understandable. Cannavaro, Ibrahimovic, Zambrota, But also the club cannot maintain all of these players. Yeah, of course. Yeah, because it was unreal at that time. If you play Champions League and you fight or win Champions League, it's okay. Instead, no. That was a compromise and a balance.

46:05I don't know who really decided to leave, who really wanted to stay. But for me, it was a funny year. We went in every little small village in Serie B. We started with 9 points at the beginning of 17, but after one month, 9 points of penalisation. At Christmas, we were already first. Every Sunday, it was like a party. Yes, and then we have two days off every time, every week. Stay there, parties. Every ground. And there was 22. Yes. That is amazing. So every ground you went to, everyone full. But also now. Imagine at that time in Syribe, because you went in some village that you never played against anymore.

46:48It's like Man City next season in Grimsby. In Grimsby. Carlisle. Who is seen as the greatest you've ever seen? Girl, here's some of that white girl. Best coach I had in my career. I was very lucky because I had Mancini, I had Conte, I had Allegri, I had Lippi at that time. Wow, man. I was so young, I had Capello, very young. Thank you very much. Then the two biggest coaches of my career are Allegri and Conte, because of the year I spent with them, like five years at least with both of them. They're very different, probably the opposite, but they are so good. Yes. It's hard to stay with Conte. You've got some?

47:41because it's very demanding. Consumers. Very demanding. Is it? Yes. Daily demanding. Yeah, 24 hours a day, 7 to 7, 365 almost. Yes. But he's a very good leader and sometimes you are able to don't feel this type of fatigue. Also, you run a lot. How much I run? Jesus Christ. Is this why after three years he has to leave? I think now, I don't know if he has changed now, but two, three years is a good time. Yeah, he's able to squeeze everything from the people, but then also, or he has to change all the roster, and it's very hard, or just have a few players, or he has to leave. And also sometimes he needs new goals.

48:32He needs to change also. It's very similar, I think, to Ancelotti. I miss him and Spalletti are one of the biggest of the Italian last 20 years. But he's very able to raise the level of the pressure and to prepare a few games. I love also Mancini. It was a big discovery for me because I always played against him and he seems for me prickly and he's very different. He's so generous and humble, he's shy, he's quiet, he doesn't like to speak a lot. and with Vialli they were the perfect duo also as a coach and Vialli was the head of delegation or whatever because Gianluca was a fantastic speaker. He was able to add some speech that arrived in through your heart to pull out something from not just from yourself.

49:21While Mancini is just to give confidence, come a few details on the field, just two, three little things, but very direct and for the national team. was perfect. Good fit. It felt really good watching Mancini and Vialli. Yeah, the image of Vialli and Mancini, the agate. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. This is the very famous dish agnolotti al sugo and this is a normal Pomodoro. This is beautiful. Yeah. You mentioned Lippi. One story about Lippi and United, we played them in a group match against Juventus. We beat Juventus 4-0 in Juventus. Lippi's the manager on the sideline so Juventus losing 4-0 at home.

50:00Lippy has a cigar.

50:04As if he was winning 4-0. Now cigarette is very different in our generation, but the old generation of cigarette is very normal. But losing 4-0, losing 4-0 and going, just having his little cigar, beautiful. Yes. How was Alex? Sir Alex. Sir Alex, Oscarry. I don't know who you're talking about. Oscarry. No, but you can imagine. Go on, Gal. To be honest with you, I think he was an incredible man-manager. Yeah, but you cannot compare it to now. The expectation every single day and the intensity every single day was high. So the expectation was... I've never known anybody, probably him, similar, that disliked winning as much.

50:56Almost winning... Sorry, disliked losing. Losing was like a... It was a disaster, like a crisis, every single match. So it was intense. I asked a mystery about him to Patrice. Yes. When he was raining or cold, he was in his office just watching the training and not playing on the field. And he got mad about, why am I not playing? You need to watch the training. but he loved he loved Sir Alex yeah about the pre-season we played against you were a coach in Sunderland I still remember the August in Newcastle in Sunderland in Italy it was like 35, 38 degrees it was crazy and we went there and we found like 10 degrees and wind It was so windy that we cannot even pass the ball just on the ground.

51:57It was a very cold wind in August. I cannot imagine December there. We were happy with the draw. 1-1. I know it's friendly. We were pleased. A lot of friendly game for Italian team is 1-1. All right, all right. You took it easy. Do you remember your team that day? Can I test you? No, not at all. I'm trying to think of an Italian player played for United. Giuseppe Rossi? Yes. Yeah, Giuseppe Rossi. I talked with him a few days ago because he's like filming a documentary. He's a nice guy. Nice guy, yeah. Good player. He was a beautiful little player. I tried to bring him to Sunderland. I did, I spoke to him.

52:40You tried to bring a lot of players. He tried to bring a lot of players. I was trying to get good players. It's a manager's job. He had a choice of Sunderland or Villarreal, I think. He went to Villarreal and done. Don't really add up. He had a couple of injuries, but done really well. How many other Italian players? And Macca... Oh, Makeda. Makeda. Kogipa. Kogipa. Manone. Taibbi. Taibbi. Taibbi. Oh, he's a tough time. Really tough. He had a difficult time at United there. He let one through his legs. Tizia. Tough. It was probably two-eyed. Yeah, Makeda. Tizia killed him out. But he came back and had a really good...

53:12Came back to Italy and had a good career. Absolutely. Bad average team. He went to AC Milan and he didn't play very well, honestly. and he had a good career, obviously, but not as many as he was. Of course, but that can happen. You've got your big club, it doesn't work out. But he played lots of games. So what other Italian player? I'm trying to think of the most famous Italian player that's played for United. Who? Darmian. Darmian. And just a few appearances, but his score at the bat was Makeda. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Crazy guy. The overlap on tour is brought to you by Sky Mobile. The network that lets you roll your data and keep it longer than anyone else.

53:51For more information, visit sky.com forward slash shop forward slash mobile.

53:59This is the Overlap on Tour, Unseen, brought to you by SkyMobile. No, I'm not doing that. See, that is terrifying. You can watch all of the action from the boys' trip around Europe on SkyMax and Now TV. Oh my God! What do you make of the Super League? Because Juventus were one of the clubs. Yes, Andrea Agnelli was. Andrea Agnelli, obviously Barcelona and Real Madrid. We didn't know anything. I love to watch and play much more European games than domestically. You want to play more European games? Much more. I think that in Italy we have at least two clubs to match. In the Italian league. but I could say maybe four.

54:47Wow. But also I think fans, they could be much more happy if they see every week Juventus-Manchester United, Juventus-Barcelona, Juventus-Ramadina, Juventus-Saint-Polet, Juventus-Lich. If you have less team, the quality of the league could be higher because every year at least one or two teams are relegated in January in every league and you could play this type of games in the European competition that is much better and what is happening now. I would have loved to play much more games in Champions League than what I've played, but now I cannot understand how my former teammates could play this amount of games.

55:30This year Juventus has at least 10 games almost in Champions League and not anymore six because we have eight games and they play honestly Juventus. I think that cannot be the first eight and that cannot be the last eight. and probably have the playoff. And after that, you start the round of 16. And after that, you have a club workup. That's crazy, the amount of game, but I understand why it's doing it because everyone is looking at their personal interest. It's normal. But the Italian League, where is the Italian League at at this moment in time? OK, the real Super League is the Premier League now.

56:09Yes. It's the Super League. You could call however you want, but it's the Super League. Is that the problem, really, for Italy, that they look at it and think... It's not about the problem. It's the Super League. It's not the problem that it's the Super League, but the Premier League is the Super League and will be the Super League for at least five years, what is the TV right. But is that why Juventus, Real Madrid and Barcelona... That's why they tried. They tried to create the Super League because the Premier League is a problem. Yes, because I think also we had some money problems after COVID.

56:44I think that accelerates this type of proxies. But how could this type of league try to fight against Premier League? Stay together. If you look at the future, all these European teams find a way to stay together against the Premier League or the gap between the Premier League and all the other leagues will become higher and higher, bigger and bigger. And the only team that could face this type of problem could be state, government, PSG, whatever. But you know how Manchester City now has this type of problem. Or Real Madrid and Barcelona, that are the biggest revenue, but cannot be an Italian team.

57:29At the end, it's not meaning that you win, but it's meaning that you hire the best players. That's for sure. But how do you think the Italian league can get back to this? Now there's no way. There's no way? To Premier League? To get back to this level, no? Yeah, no. I think that now there's no way. They could start to have a little step better, obviously building a better show for people and try to sell TV rights better and make it more sustainable to get higher altogether. But imagine if Bournemouth could easily buy a player of your best team, Bournemouth could easily buy an Inter or Juventus player.

58:20I'm not against Bournemouth, but I mean also another team. I hear what you're saying. But that was sad. I remember that Bournemouth was in contact with Zaniolo. There was Roma, that was fourth or fifth team in Italy, was so close at the end they decided to go to Galatasaray because they refused. But Roma has already sold to them. And last year, I think in January, there was no move in the Italian transfer window until the one Bournemouth or someone else, Brighton or whatever, both a player from Sassuolo and then Sassuolo both a one from Impoli and then Impoli. You have to wait for the English league to move.

59:02That's what I'm talking about last year. Do you think the style of football in England, the way it's played, is a big help that goes around the world and people are more excited? Look at the stadium that we have in Italy and look at the stadium that you have in the second in the Championship. That's fantastic. Also if it's old, also if it's just 15 ,000, it's fantastic. Everyone is close. everyone and we we don't have a lot of this stadium and that's first the shows is nice yes but also other league has a nice show it's not just about the show it's about yourself this show and i think you you you were the greatest yeah and the first yeah yeah yeah yeah and now it's hard uh frenchly i think that we are a little bit worse than la liga because la liga with barcelona And Almaty, they are way better than us.

59:56I don't see our league worse than the others, than German league, French league. And we had a good result because at the end, the good thing about Italian is that we found a way to solve problems. And last year, we were almost... The last two years of European competition, we were so good because we found a way, but we don't have the best player at all. You have a lot of teams in Europe next year. Do you have eight teams or nine teams in Europe next season? Yeah, a lot. Five in Champions League, for sure. Then you have probably eight. We have eight. We risk the ninth if Fiorentina and Roma would have won both Conference League and Europa League.

1:00:41We risk to arrive to ninth, that's crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is the famous Brasato. It's like, yeah, it's a meal. Beef? Arrasto? Beef, this is cooked with wine, with Barolo. It's very soft. It's different from Fiorentina, a classic state, but it's very famous. You want to try some, Turin? Thank you very much.

1:01:14You know, Jan, I'm just talking to Arsenal. I was one of the probably stupid guys at 16 because I was playing in the third division in the academy and I received a big offer from Arsenal at 16. No, at all. They were sure that I accepted. And at 16, there is a free transfer. I didn't want to leave my hometown free. that I said to my manager yeah management at that time I don't like to do it this way I signed a contract and if you find an agreement with Arsenal I would go there but not in this way then they asked a lot of money and we didn't do it but at the end I have two daughters they are nine and five but if I have a boy at that age I was saying go, go the third division not a similar event the third division neither professional my coaches was really nice people but not at all coaches I decided to do it in this way I don't know it worked but it was a bad decision at that time I think because imagine your intentions were good yes yeah but you've morally done the right thing for yourself I think that for them it was done because he came to me, gave me a big offer, called me at Arsenal and I was in Livorno.

1:02:46You don't need... See Arsenal, we were spread wide. Seriously, looking for people like Giorgio at that stage, man. You're going to go into television and do some television as well? More? I did it, I enjoyed. I don't know. Now, I wanted to try to be part of the active side. But I like it. It's nice because you could follow the game, you could explain your inside. And I think that if you explain and give your opinion and argument that, you could say everything. I wasn't one that was just to give the titles, the titles or something. but if I have to say for me it's not good he's not good what? because he is missing these type of things that's how we started after a few years

1:03:47you know less people it was funny I did it in the US it's very different of what I did in Italy that's very different request But I love both. Did you work for Fox? Yes. Fox. With Jules Bridge. Jules Bridge. And Daniel Sturridge. Ah, nice one. You'll have to go on Monday Night Football with Jamie. It's the programme in England. You should go, yeah. Yeah, it's good for you. Deal? Deal? Deal or no deal? You have to do some stuff for defending, Jamie. I have to ask her. Yeah, I know he's earning a lot of money I'm doing for free. He's asking me to do it free. I'll tell you, yes, to earn money. I'll tell you later, but that's true.

1:04:33But what happened today, the same. Yeah, you have to be here with these four fantastic guys. They earn the money, you have the deal.

1:04:44We pay for the mail, though, boys. That's why I wanted to order a big barbares. The nice wine. But they arrived before to the restaurant and said, no, no big wine. Just the cheap budget. Yes, the budget. Did they say that?

1:05:04They better not, Gary. That's in Gary's head now. You're not in trouble now. All the great players, all nice pictures, yeah? Yeah, not me, but... Not yet. So you don't come here before? This is your first time here? No, I went here. It's very historical for the past generation. And when I arrived, there was the same owner as another restaurant for young players. I went much more than the other one. I was 21. And here is for the family, I was almost alone. That's very different type. But yeah, I know very well. So we need to get your picture up on the wall tonight. We need to have a picture. Give me just a sec.

1:05:44Did you bring in a cake or something? No, he'll get a little bit of dessert, because he likes dessert. So do we? What does it look like? I'll see if everybody brings us ice cream. It's boiling.

1:05:54Pour it on, man. I'll tell you what, when you wait for the second bottle of wine, I'll be like, jeez. It's really good, isn't it? I don't need a song. I've finished that one. It's an insult if you don't finish it. I know. Don't worry. Just get that. Pinsult if I do. I have a surprise.

1:06:13I have to tell this story. You look great, isn't it? It suits you. I was at an event of classic shirts, and they asked me, OK, pick one. Oh, wow. Wow. Pick three, honestly, but the first. I said, I look at the first, was not Ronaldo, was not Messi. Was it Neville? I said, no. I said, okay, wow. I won the Manchester United. Beautiful. I look such a shirt. You look good in that shirt. You look good in it. She'll go to United. 94, Keno. Is it 94? Yeah, I think it's 94. Yeah, 94. 1994, yeah. Okay. You know, I used to look at her, I used to always think, look at a stupid lace in it. There you go, you see.

1:06:53Wow. You have to lay it. Of course. You cannot live. I don't want to fight with you, honestly. I don't want to fight. I'm a peaceful guy, but I'm asking you before leaving. I need your... No fight until later. It's too early. But in Italy, you are more famous than probably in England. No. For sure, more appreciated. More appreciated. Much more. Because in England, obviously, you have a lot of fans, but a lot also... It's misunderstood. It's misunderstood. I came to a game years ago. I came over to watch a match with my friend. I think I might have just finished playing. We came to watch the Milan Derby.

1:07:33Just got tickets. And the next day we've been down to watch. Roma were playing somebody. And we thought we'd go to the game. So we just, me and my friend went down. And we had a driver. So we're driving to the stadium. We're just going as like fans just to watch the game. So the police were stopping us. So I'm a passenger, the driver. So the police said, no, no, no. and the guy, the driver went, Capitano, man, you know? Capitano. I was fucking... And the police went, yeah, go through. I was so embarrassed, honest to God. Someone ever recognised today? Yeah. Today? Yeah. Not so bad. Not so bad.

1:08:12OK, but it's not easy. It's not obvious. And I think that, OK, maybe not now, but in ten years, if I'm going to England, I don't think that a lot of fans could recognise that. People love you. They'll remember you. They'll remember you. People love you. They'll remember you for soccer. Yeah, because of that. They'll remember you. They'll be waiting at the airport for you. Yeah, they'll be... I was doing the TV broadcasting. All the England fans were screaming, Wonkers! Wonkers!

1:08:46Wonkers! I was bringing the... I brought the cup into the field So then after that I did the broadcasting and it was really in the middle of the English sense. But I was lying. It was okay. Good stuff, Giorgio. This is the Overlap on tour, unseen. Brought to you by SkyMobile. Come on, sign the show. I want to see him live on the camera. He doesn't normally do this, Giorgio. I still have my glasses, yeah. I usually have a knife with me, I do this. Okay. I do believe I'm a bit more into it. I just sign it, we do the rest later. You didn't sign for him, but he signed for you. Yes. Brilliant. I signed you.

1:09:25Thank you.

1:09:32The Overlap on Tour is brought to you by Sky Mobile. You can watch all of the action from the boys' trip around Europe on Skymax and Now TV. No, I'm not doing it. Oh, no! Having hit the UK and Ireland last series, they're back. Oh, no! Oh, here we go again. Gary Neville. Roy Keane. Not good, lads. And Jamie Carragher. Jamie, what are you doing? Are joined by Ian Wright. Look at my guy. As they go continental. That is terrifying. Revisiting the scenes of their most memorable matches. Morning. Getting to know some of the greatest European cities. in a way that they never could as players.

1:10:27And the fun continues in front of a live Manchester audience. Whose idea was this? Welcome to the Overlap on Tour.