Have Arsenal “bottled it” will Man City be Champions? | Fan Debate Part 1

0:04Hello and welcome to the Overlap live fan debate brought to you by Skybet. As the conclusion of the season hots up, we're here to dissect the winners and losers from the midweek fixtures, and who better to do that with than with Jamie Carragher and Gary Neville.

0:27What's going on here? Before we start, you are the high court of football. And I'm bringing forward Jamie Carragher as the defendant for Crimes Against Punditry. And how this is going to work, Josh, you are Judge Denzel. OK, I'll take that, I'll take that. I'm the prosecutor, and you are the defendant. Again? And how it's going to work is you're going to plead not guilty or guilty, and then the fans, jury, are going to decide. OK. Here we go. Number one. Lissandro Martez can't play in the Premier League. Guilty. Arsenal have a team of leaders Not guilty So you've got no leaders unless you win the league Put your defence forward to them Jamie Carragher said that they are a team of leaders Third one Arsenal will get 93 to 94 points this season Guilty Rashford needs to leave Manchester United and Manchester United need to sell him When did he say that?

1:29Oh he said it Guilty or not guilty Not guilty 30 goals this season on the brink of Marcus Rashford. If he's that good, why hasn't he moved to a team who come in? Is he guilty of the offence? Not guilty. Found guilty by the jury. Not guilty. He changed his mind on the Liverpool FSG ownership. He said that we don't need new owners on Sky Sports earlier on the season. He's now in a recent Telegraph piece said that because they pulled out of Bellingham, maybe they're not suitable only. LAUGHTER Guilty or not guilty? Not guilty. Not guilty. That is exactly what's happened. Stop taking one line out of a newspaper handle.

2:06Honest to God. Is he guilty of defence or not guilty? Guilty. Guilty. Nonsense. Guilty of Liverpool fan? I'm on the fence. He's guilty. He is guilty. He's done you. Erling Haaland chose the wrong club. Guilty. You've been proven guilty of five out of the six offences. Well, for the Scouts, is that a result? LAUGHTER LAUGHTER You can't say it.

2:34I'm going to get straight into it. I enjoyed that little courtroom saga. You'll bring mine next time, I'm sure. There's a few. Let's just rip the band-aid off. Title race chat. It's done. Yes or no? Yeah. Yeah, it's done. I was really surprised by Friday night, Southampton. sat in that commentary box, obviously you were in the stadium as well and that's when you knew that this was, I think, far too much for this Arsenal group of players because, look, Anfield can happen, West Ham away, you know, sometimes it can happen. City away, you can get blitzed there, we've seen teams that, you know, that's happened to them quite regularly but you're playing against the bottom team at home and you're really struggling badly and obviously they came back in the game, it was deemed to be a positive but when you put that collection of four games together, I think it was always going to be a case that it was going to be difficult to get over the line but they're finding it very difficult now mentally and physically, those Arsenal players just generally to cope with what's happened.

3:41There's been a lot of talk over the last few months about them winning the league and rightly so, they've been absolutely outstanding all season. Electric to watch but they've started to concede goals, they've started to make mistakes they've started to look a little bit leggy in games and now you've seen the performance levels drop so it's it's it's a catalogue of errors and Sarah's of things happening I'm not sure how they can get back on the bike from where they are so I'm not even confident they'll beat Chelsea I'm not confident they'll win at Newcastle and I'm not confident that to be fair they'll be Brian I I know the other ones who are Chelsea surely I think is those players now are looking at Southampton as a difficult game.

4:23I think it is over. I'd like to think it's not because, you know, someone pointed out, I think the other day, that there was a scene that when City won their first league, they, quote, bottled it. But then all of a sudden, United went and drew to Everton. I think lost at Wigan or drew at Wigan. We ended up bottling it. So it can happen that it can swing back the other way. Let's give you a scenario. Rodri and Haaland get injured against Real Madrid in the first game. What the hell? No, for me, they're the two players that I think if you took out Rodri, you're taking out a big part of City. If you took out Haaland, you're taking out a massive part of City.

4:58Let's tell you those players got injured in a game and all of a sudden the Real Madrid game has been really messy. They get knocked out by them. They start to just all of a sudden fall over a little bit and think that can happen. But it would need something of that type of nature to happen, I think, for it to swing, because I'm not sure Arsenal can recover. Jimmy, have they blown the best chance that they'll have in the foreseeable future to win a league. Yeah, I think they have. And people always keep looking at Arsenal's run this season. And sometimes, in our job, you compare it to other teams in this position, whether it's other teams going for a title.

5:36And you think of teams probably going back to the start of the Premier League where Manchester United just missed out, I think, against Leeds and the first year of the Premier League, they win it. Liverpool with Man City, where they go really close and then the next year, they win it. So there's history of teams going close to a title, getting that experience and then going again. I don't see that with Arsenal. I don't. And I just think this season's chance was massive because no one in this room actually thinks Arsenal are better than Man City. But you're thinking, could they win the league this season because maybe City have got games or they were getting used to Haaland at the start or they're not playing the normal football that they play.

6:12Something wasn't quite right, as the City fans said, throughout the season. We're not the same. And you think, could Arsenal nick the title this season? And then you think of next season, you think of the other big teams coming back as well. You can't have as poor a season. And Arsenal can still improve, and I think they will improve next season. But I still don't think they're going to be, whatever it was, seven, eight points cleared in March. I mean, that was an unbelievable position to be in. And as I said, they can be better next season, but they won't be in that position next season. We obviously, I put on that crimes against Punditry sheet, you talked about leaders.

6:47and I think what has sort of irked me a little bit over the last three, four, five months on the Erdogan, Zinchenko, we're confusing leaders with really good professionals. So there are people who can lead, who are people who can affect other people's performances in the highest pressure moments in matches and there are people who are just great professionals who come every single game, they love the team, they fight like that. So when Roy Keane left Manchester United, he was a genuine leader. Genuine leader. Impacted us in the biggest moments, in the most pressurised moments, in matches where you're thinking we're struggling here.

7:27But he'd just galvanise something. He'd pull you around. He'd get a grip of you. And then I took over. I'm not a Roy Keane leader of any shape. I'm a fantastic professional. I work my socks off and I do those things. I'm using myself as an example. I look at Odegaard. Fantastic professionals. Inchenko, great professional. but when you actually get to the most highest pressurised moments in the biggest matches, in the crux of the season are they leaders then is what I was always referring to and Arsenal's senior players, Partey, Zinchenko, Odegaard in the most difficult period when those younger players like Saka and Martinelli needed that guidance Jesus needed telling to stop running around and just stand up front and be really disciplined in how you play they didn't impact the rest of their teammates I don't believe on the pitch In fact, they contributed to the difficulties they were having in matches.

8:18Xhaka at Anfield, Partey's performances in the last few games. I think Zinchenko gave a goal away in one game as well. Was it Liverpool game? Liverpool and West Ham, did he as well? Yeah, and West Ham. And West Ham. Erdegaard probably did his most difficult match as well against City. And then if you think of the huddle that Zinchenko did and Erdegaard came over and said, break up. So those four players that are the leaders in that team have not been able, at the moment that they needed it, those younger players, to really pull them together and keep them calm and composed. And that, to me, has been apparent in this last few weeks.

8:53Robbie, would you say we're leaderless? Not necessarily leaderless, but we don't have those players that you'd want to stand behind in a tunnel, you'd want to go to Woolworths. Obviously, it's not a Roy Keane-type figure in the Arsenal team, but I think they have showed leadership. it's going for a bad moment. You know what I mean? Came up against an excellent team the other night and lost the game. But, you know, you can also look on it and say, Martin Odegaard the other night. You know what I mean? We're 3-1 down, facing absolute humiliation against Southampton. He's a person who sort of gets us back into the game and says to everybody, it's not dead yet.

9:33We nearly won that game in the end. So, you know, I wouldn't say there's been a lack of leadership. I think we've just sort of, you know, hit a dip at the wrong time. And that's coincided with Man City being at their very, very best. You know, so, yeah, I mean, listen, I was at the game the other night. It was a hard, hard watch. It was like we were too frightened. We showed too much respect, I felt, to Haaland. And we got carved apart. And it's something that we have to learn from. But I wouldn't say we don't have leadership. I think we just came up against a team in Manchester City that at this moment in time, they're a better team than us.

10:15I think this thing of leadership, of bottling it, I mean, I don't agree with it. It's too much of a hard word, but it's bottling it. Yeah, it's bottling it. Like a leader, you mentioned Roy Keane. The first person, if someone's come to me, I mentioned Steven Gerrard. The Chelsea fan had mentioned John Terry. These players aren't playing anymore. They don't play. It's a different type of play. Who's this Roy Keane figure from Man City, even though they win everything? Liverpool have won lots of that. Who's the Steven Gerrard sort of captain of that figure? I just think it's a different type of leadership.

10:48So I get what you're saying, and you look like a Razinchenko or an Odegaard, their captain. 10, 15 years ago, we don't think of those players as captains, those type of Tony Adams figures. It's a different generation of players. This is the way it is now. And just because Arsenal might lose the league, by seven or eight points or whatever it may be. It's not just that they've got no leaders. They're just not as good as Man City. And we all know that in this room. We've known it all season that they're not quite good at them. I'll use a different example. I think Roger is a leader for City. But he's not a Roy Keane figure.

11:23But when it's really difficult in matches, he takes the ball, he makes sure that the back four's spread, he goes and splits the back four, he goes and gets it in difficult positions, he controls the game, he composes everybody. and he brings leadership in difficult moments in matches against Bayern Munich or against Arsenal at home. So if you're playing against West Ham away, you did a great piece on it on Monday Night Football. And suggesting Roy Keane was providing leadership through and galvanising people. He provided leadership through his composure on the pitch and through his actual leadership, through how he played and making sure the full-backs still split.

11:54So you did a great piece on it where in the first 10 minutes against West Ham, Arsenal's back forward split, they would deepen for a throw-in, they would get on the ball, they'd be in the shape, they'd play out from the back in their pattern. What happened in the second half when it got tough, they started just to push up the pitch, they got really clammy and tense, they didn't do the things that they were doing. So what you then need is someone on the pitch who says, hang on a minute, slow down. Split our back four, get your full backs wide, get your midfield players split, get your high, Sacra and Martinelli wide, do the things that you've been doing.

12:24Now that leadership can come on the pitch or it can come from off the pitch, but someone has to interfere when a game's going against you. So Rodri, I think, does it brilliantly for City. Edison, I think, does it brilliantly for City by making sure that they continue to play the same way. They don't change irrespective of the difficulties they're having in the matches. In the most difficult moments in the last four games that Arsenal have had, I've not seen anybody really composing the team and getting... They've started to do things that they didn't do all season. So forget the fact of this idea in your heads that you've got of Roy Keane going around and saying, come on, lads, come on.

12:55He didn't do that. Roy Keane never spoke to anybody in a football pitch about things like that. He would make sure, though, that when our goalkeeper got it, and Scholes would be the same. Nev, get wide. Dennis, get wide. You two split. He would make sure we did the right things. I don't think it's leadership. I think it's more... We've had a way of playing that has worked brilliantly for us. And I think in the past couple of games, and especially against Man City, we should have adapted that a bit. Especially after the fact that the last few games, especially away from home, where we shipped goals, we should have maybe adapted our style a little bit because we're coming up against Man City.

13:35Not just a Man City that are hungry to try and win the title, but a city that's in the past few games have been on fire. And I think we should have adapted, but it's almost like... I think that's how it's, I thought, Robbie, I think... Yeah, yeah, but... I think we're ready to do that. No, because a lot of us are saying... I'm not saying go defensive, but I'm saying maybe switch the tactics up a bit because we knew that we were going to be under the cross for a lot of that game. Well, I've been 13-14 and everyone said when Liverpool lost to Chelsea in the title race, in hindsight, Brendan Rodgers didn't need to win that game, should have gone in and drawn it.

14:07Well, he didn't have that in his locker. It's all well and good saying it then. Yeah, obviously. No, but sometimes... I don't think you can hear the message. No, you can say that about Pep. You know, he's always been known for playing one type of way, but actually the two games he's played against Arsenal this season, he's switched off his tactics. Yeah, but he's a better manager with better questions. Yeah, he is, so that's what I'm saying. Can we just come back, though? Can we just come back to the point of... No, I hate the phrase bottling it. It's a derogatory term. it's too negative. Stop using it then.

14:32No, I'm not used to it. But what we have to accept that when it gets hot in the kitchen, in big sporting moments, whether it be golf, whether it be F1, whether it be you have to at that point prove yourselves and play and make sure you can deliver. That is how you define it. So my point is, Arsenal, at this most difficult time of the season, have not been to continue to be able to do the things that they've repetitively done for the previous parts of the season. that is a sign of losing your nerve and not being able to deliver in the big moment so my point is here that is something we have to talk about because do you know in 97-98 Robbie we lost Roy Keane to a cruciate ligament injury part way through the season I think we were 12 points clear of Arsenal in January I think you had a couple of games in hand on us but we were 12 points clear and we'd already won a couple of titles by the way I think Peter Schmeichel was out for 3 or 4 weeks and we ended up in that last part of the season just falling over and I remember those moments thinking, the sheer weight of expectation and the sheer feeling that you're coming for us when you're on our shoulder, you feel it.

15:35I would never say I bottled it, but your legs start to get heavy. Like, Zaka and Martinelli, the other night, I was looking at them and I thought, they do have to get off the pitch, and he took them off because their legs had gone. And that's a sign. Sorry, the thing about, if you win the league, so City have got the bottle, they've got the mentality, They've got leaders, and Arsenal have them because they've come a little bit short. So what you're talking about there, you've described yourself doing it. We've all done it. We've done it for England in tournaments. I've done it in big games. Man City, who have dominated the Premier League, won four out of five Premier Leagues this season, they did exactly the same in Real Madrid last season.

16:12So if you want to talk about bottling it, so all these leaders that Man City have got, Real Madrid, you had two goals, you needed to concede two goals later on. Now, OK, it was a bit of a freak, but you stopped playing. You started going long. You just didn't get on the ball. You just didn't want to pass it. So even these players that you're talking about, and Rodri's a leader or a different type of players, no matter who you are or what you've won, we've all been... I don't even finish. We've all done what Arsenal have done, where you go, oh, you have that nervousness, you panic. You're exactly right.

16:39Arsenal have not done what they should have done in the last few games. But every team, we've won everything. Some of the best players in the world. We've all been in that arena where we've gone, oh, we've stopped doing it right now. That Madrid did to us what we did to them, is what I would say. and you talk about leadership, it's also experience because even if Kevin De Bruyne isn't a natural leader, he's fearless. He's not scared of that game. He isn't. And we haven't even mentioned Ruben Diaz yet. Now, he is an instinctive, natural-born leader and he does change this Manchester City side. And it is a coincidence that since he's come back into the team, the City defence is galvanised, the players look more confident within their own skin.

17:12And to me, you look at Odegaard, he could one day be maybe as fearless as De Bruyne was in that game, but he's just younger and he hasn't won that many titles yet. And to me, it's as much about leadership as it is experience in that situation. Because you look at City's team, it's full of warriors throughout as well. They were all up for the fight physically. The reason people say battling it is because they had two-goal lead against Liverpool, two-goal lead against West Ham. Doesn't the manager have to take some criticism for losing two two-goal leads? Every team... If you give up two two-goal leads, if you're losing 3-1 at home against the bottom team in the league...

17:47You used to think last night? Oh, literally against first. Yeah, but we weren't challenging for the league. Liverpool and Jurgen Klopp lost the league to City three or four times, but never once did I look at them, because they ran them close and they carried on playing the same way, and they got to 99 points. Never once did I look at them thinking they're showing the signs or impact of difficulties in the most hardest moments. Arsenal are showing the signs of it. Liverpool lost the league, by the way, to City, but honestly, when they were going for the league with City... You can finish second, by the way, and not feel the effects of it, because I think Jurgen Klopp's team were unbelievable chasing down.

18:20They didn't peter out. I think that's the key. There was no... I think what Arsenal fans would be upset about is the fact that it's been a collapse. As a City fan, I don't blame Arsenal, though. I don't because that was Arsenal's biggest game of the season. That was City's biggest game in seven days. That's the difference to what we're talking about. What I mean, because we just played Bayern, so we're used to that right now. We've got Kyle Walker and Akanji and so on. And as a City fan, I don't blame Saka and Martinelli for being maybe a little bit overawed by the occasion. I blame Arsenal. They're so used to being around those games.

18:49And like, they're saying it's a bit young for them still. Arsenal and Masters Football Club, this is a serious discussion. This isn't Leicester City. All these Arsenal fans are talking about it's like a one in a million shot to win the Premier League. This is a massive football institution, apparently the biggest club in London for a lot of people. Not for me, because of Chelsea winning European silverware, unlike Arsenal. But how can you be, you know, leading against Southampton, leading against West Ham? Seriously, because there's a point in the season where you should have been able to go to the Etihad and still lost the game and still win the Premier League title race.

19:17That is bottling it. Listen, well, then you bottled it last season, as Jamie just said. We won the league last season. As a matter of fact, you bottled the Champions League last... You bottled the Champions League... Hold on, hold on. You bottled the Champions League the last few seasons. So, the word bottling it... You know, you're joking. Can I... I think that's... I think that's... That's... That's much better, by the way. Yeah, back here. What do you say, right? You just said we bottled it, right? But against Sevilla, you're 2-0 up as well. Yeah, okay. It's just ending to it. Everyone bottles everything.

19:54I just say you bottled it. Yes, we did. No one was talking about the issue with the word bottling it when Smurfs did it. No, because you invented the word. We've all bottled it. No, I get it, I get it. I'll come back to you, I'll come back to you. Oh, come on, please. I've got to defend that. You can give it a new word. They called it Spurs. They called it not even bottling. They called it Spurs. They gave it a word for you. That's all fine. Let's not call Arsenal bottle jobs. How can you talk about bottle after last week? I'm saying it. Let's not call Arsenal bottle jobs. Let's not call them.

20:23But all I'd say on a very real level is that last season, we saw Arsenal capitulate. Weak mentality last season. A complete capitulation to allow Spurs to get into the top four. And again, it happens this season. The question needs to be asked of Arteta. Is he strong enough to lead a team? Hold on, hold on. Let me just say this, right? On last season, I'll give you that. Last season, we did capitulate, right? But this season, no. You know what I mean? If it weren't for us, if it weren't for us this season, there would be no title. I don't care about that. Pippa, Pippa, Pippa. What do you care about?

20:58I want to come to Pippa here. It's not small club mentality. And also, by the way, right? You know what I mean? It ain't quite over yet. I want to see... What I want to see from Arsenal... Listen, I think that City will go on and win the title, right? But what I want to see from Arsenal now is for us to finish the season strongly. No, you need to just go quietly into the night and not have a half-fielder. You've not gone quietly into the night. You've gone quietly into the night. You're not even going to get Champions League football this season. I know you're hurt. I'm not being afraid of me.

21:26All right, this is the thing that questions me. What I said here... Okay, go on, Pippa. I'm trying to get to... You got into the front row. There's a lot of... Children. I'm surrounded by them. A lot of hurt teams. This time you're trying to defend Arsenal. I'll be Liverpool. This is what frustrates me. I've got no skin in the game, let's leave it. All I will say, can I just say this, as someone who's not even invested in any of this, they were fifth last year and they're still top. Exactly. You might not win the league, of course. Bottling it, listen, I can say my team bottles it every single week at the moment.

21:57But I think Arsenal have been brilliant. If they come second, I think everyone in here, probably Ty wouldn't, but everyone else would probably say they've had a tremendous season. It's a tremendous season, but I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed. As you said, if we finish that a second, I'll be disappointed personally, but the thing that frustrates me the most, as you can hear from in this room, is how much everyone's collaborating on watching Arsenal fail when they would rather see a City team win continuously and they think it's because they'll feel like Arsenal fans will be insufferable if Arsenal win the league.

22:27What will be insufferable if Man City continue to win for the next five years and then Newcastle join them with the old WF? I love Arsenal fans being on this stage, by the way. We've been saying this for years! You're sitting here going, like, the only people that have competed in the City are Liverpool, right? You're the only people that can talk right now in this room. Everyone else is saying bottled it. You bottled it through the season. You're bottled it for top four. You're bottled it for Europa Conference League. We got a trophy? Like, yeah, you've got a Carabao Cup, but congratulations.

22:51Like, you're not in a title race. You're not in a title race, and we're the only ones that turn up to the race. You lot have tied your laces in the last couple of months. We've been there since August, September. What, you bottled it? We haven't bottled it. All right, let's listen. We've been talking about bottled it for the next five hours. We've been competing in the Premier League. You lost the league against West Ham. We haven't even lost yet. And against Southampton. We haven't even lost yet. United fans, you're not in this title race conversation. Wait until the end of the season. We're going to come back to you when we're talking about...

23:16The reason Pippa, I think you're probably getting a little bit of a stick of arse, is because you have ridiculed, mocked... Everyone ridiculed anyone. In the last three months, you've absolutely ridiculed and mocked everybody who suggested you won't win the league. I haven't played it yet. I did a video with this guy here in front of me on Sky, and he suggested more Arsenal players in a combined XI than City was. And I can't say to him, mate, Wait a few months to see how this City time goes. At that time, though, it was the time we did it. I actually genuinely think that City, to be fair, now, depending on...

23:44I'm not sure Arsenal have got a recovery in them, but I hope they have because it'll be a great end to the season. I think they could lose the league by 10 points. I think City could win by 10 points. Honestly, I think it'll be really difficult the next few weeks. I genuinely thought Gary was doing so well. And then he just had to throw in that curveball. No, I just think the next... They've got four points clear if they win the two games in hand. I think Newcastle will be a problem for you. We're obviously imagining City are going to win games. I think you could end up six, seven points behind and it'll just become a little bit like, who cares then?

24:12I think that's when you start to drop points without even people realising it. I was saying before, sorry about that, about Arsenal, but just going quietly into the night, I was being a bit funny with it, but the point is I think people need to remember that's a huge leap Arsenal have taken forward rather than going, well, there's a weight of expectation. Now they've got to be the top team in the country. I think everyone will enjoy it and you'll have an easier ride almost and into next season. If everyone goes, wow, what a jump from fifth to second, rather than, oh, Arsenal, a top team, threw it away.

24:38That's a really hard mentality. That's kind of what happens when you spend£300 million. What do you expect? They're a big club and they've been leading the Premier League for, what, 30-odd weeks of the season. I mean, no club's ever led the Premier League that far into the season and not won the Premier League. They're not. Kevin Keegan, Newcastle vibes. Next to Man City is ridiculous. City and we should have all been there. That's a real vitriol guy. What are you putting me next to, Matilda? I've done you a disservice to the floor manager later. Jamie, is the treble on? You think Man City are going to win the league by 10 points?

25:11Is the treble a genuine opportunity? Is it there for them? Yeah, I think it's all on the Real Madrid game. I think City will win the league. I think they'll win the FA Cup against Man United. I don't think that'll be a massive problem for them. Do you not? No. No. You think City batter United in the final? Yeah. I don't think it would be too much but I think they'll win, not a problem with the centre-backs that you've got I think it won't be a problem for them why do you think they're going to beat Man City? I think we've got a chance because of history you keep talking about this history Man City are playing against history on that day that's what we put in the group chat Man City beat Man City but I think it's all on the Real Madrid game because the other half of the Champions League draw I don't think they've got any chance of, you know, one of the Italian, one of the Melans in the final.

26:03I don't think that would be a problem for Man City at all. So I think it's all down to the Real Madrid game. And I do actually think Man City are a better team than Real Madrid, but Real Madrid have just got this thing. There's something about them in the Champions League. Yeah, there's something about them in the Champions League. They've got that belief. That's true. That's true. Maybe. So I think they're going to do it, yeah. I do. Is there some nerves, like, you know, from you boys who won the treble, you can sit there and go because that's your thing no but look at the end of the day we can't do anything about it number one but you know you don't want I don't want Manchester City to win the treble irrespective of whether actually to be fair you know I've won it or not I don't want them to win the treble but he's got it in him and it's Pep Guardiola and but I look I'm hoping I think United have probably got more chance than Real Madrid just because of I think United they're one off at Wembley erm I think that the centre-backs will be back I'm hoping I'm hoping our centre-backs will be back by then and we've got players fit I just think if we set up in such a way I'm hoping that we go into the game with Fernandes on the right and that we stiffen up midfield with a Mac Tomini probably with Casemiro and I don't know Eriksen Ossobice and we go a bit more sort of thoughtful in the game I do doing what Arsenal did with the three in midfield that was attacking I think we need to be a little bit more I think Eriksen I doesn't like doing this he He likes to dominate the ball.

27:26He doesn't. He likes to dominate the ball. He likes to control the ball. He wants to do that eventually. He's not that bothered about it now. He does want to do it. He didn't do it second half last night. He's left Fred out for the last few months because he wants Ericsson... He keeps knocking it long to be a ghost. Oh, my God. Right. I've got a little bit of insight as to why Fred's not playing. Subitza's playing. Because he can hold... Spoke to the mass here. Oh, my God.

27:52Right. So, Subicza, Eriksen, Fernandes, he wants players who can take the ball. Obviously, every manager wants that. But I just think against City, having Bruno one step further up, which we've done in certain games, being a bit more solid and making sure that we're just a bit more respectful, doing the opposite of what Arsenal did. We can't press City high and think we can basically keep possession off them and expose our centre-backs. So, I think we've got to make sure we're a little bit more thoughtful in the game. Be in it with 15, 20 minutes to go. Be in it with 15, 20 minutes to go. I do think United, that has to be the...

28:22I think they've got a chance, United. I'm not saying they're going to win, because I don't feel that confident, but I've booked my tickets, I'm going down, and I've got a little bit of hope that tradition and history will look down on us. Is it safe to say for City fans that there's really out of the treble, it's crazy to say, but there's probably one important trophy for you guys, isn't there? Which one's more important for you? If we were to win the Champions League, I've always wanted to win it on the year that we've won the league as well. I think it's just something about... Jesus Christ!

28:55What's going on here, man? I guess what I meant by that is when you see Chelsea in the 7th or whatever, it's like, you're not the best team in Europe. You just won the... When I get me finale, I want to make sure I get me... Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll take 7th to the Champions League. I'll take the challenge. What have you liked? Yeah, I've had one title. That sounded much worse than you meant. I guess it meant... I'd like to win three games. Sounds terrible. I'll backtrack a little bit. We're going to bring forward those charges. We need to bring forward those charges that you've got to try and bring them into this season.

29:28Hopefully there's a points deduction or something. I guess what I meant is I want to be able to confidently say you're the best team in Europe. Because I think sometimes you can win a knockout trophy. Oh, behave. Oh, is this because you kept doing us down for winning it in 18-19? Because we didn't win the league that season. So you don't have us coming back and going, I'm not saying that. I think City fans look at, you know, Spurs got to the final a few years ago. They were terrible. Liverpool didn't win the league as well around that time. I think you want to win the Premier League first as a City fan.

29:52It's your bread and butter. It's the hardest league in the world. You look at the Spanish league, the French league, they're not as competitive as they used to be. I think the Premier League is the best league in the world. You want to win that first, don't you? That's bread and butter. So don't you want the Champions League now? I want the Premier League first every season. If the Champions League comes, that's a cherry on top. Brainwashed. Are you lot a miserable... What? I'm just kidding. What nonsense? The league's that important. You still call it bread and butter? I was at a game the other night, they booed a Premier League anthem, they booed a Champions anthem.

30:21I don't know if I'm surprised. They might even be in it next season. At Wembley, will you boo the national anthem? I do.

30:37Man City obviously got, they're in every cup competition. So when you won the league in 1999, how did you deal with the, I guess, the backlog of fixtures, knowing that every game is important now? Yeah, I mean, to be fair, we had a massive momentum and just kept rolling from match to match, Wednesday, Saturday, Wednesday, Sunday, whenever it was. And we had a manager, I tried to make this point unsuccessfully on Twitter yesterday to my friend here, that we had a manager. when these managers say they trust the squad, they actually don't, because to be fair, a lot of the managers that we see, including Pep, take their best players out of matches.

31:14They don't. Jurgen Klopp never did it. He always played his best team. So Alex Ferguson trusted his squad and made sure that he played. He left out five, six players in the semi-final of the cup. He changed five players for the FA Cup final. He made massive changes that were risky. We were like, wow, how many changes are you making at the time? He was criticised for it before games sometimes. How can he leave him out? How can you leave him out? But he did that. And he made sure that everyone was still fresh towards the end. I don't think we dominated the ball like City do. I don't think City expand as much energy in games.

31:46They work hard. They work so hard. So it's nothing to do with that. But you keep so much control of a game, so much possession. They win games easier than we did. We had a lot of games where we had to come back in and it was a real struggle and it was a fight. We also, to be fair, in the FA Cup that season played Newcastle, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, I think we played City in the Champions League we played Juventus Barcelona Bayern Munich twice Inter Milan we played the best team in every competition and in the league we had the best team that I think I ever played against domestically which was the Arsenal double winning team of 97-98 with the famous back five so from that point of view I think we did it the hard way but we never we expanded a lot of energy but he had to rotate City I think will just do it through being efficient in control their games have been a little bit easier.

32:38For instance, that game against Sheffield United on Sunday, we had Arsenal in the semi-final and then a replay. Think about that game against Sheffield United, it was a gimme. That was a gimme. We had Arsenal earlier in the season as well and it's not our fault in the Premier League title running. You're talking about the double winners in the 90s. It's not our fault that we're playing against this soft Arsenal side in the Premier League title race. It's not our fault, is it? It's not our fault. It's not our fault. It's not our fault. Don't bite, don't bite. It's not our fault. If for any reason you don't win this league in the...

33:06Or if for any reason you get knocked out of the Champions League... This is your Kevin Keegan moment, Robbie. I'd love it if we beat them.

33:19Adam, I wouldn't use that as the final. Who's better, this Pep team, this Pep Man City team, or Gary's treble winners? Right now, the treble winners, because they've won the treble. I mean, if we revisit it after, you know, see if City have done it, I think they will do it. I mean, I do this a lot. I love comparing players or different areas or teams. I think it creates debate and we can argue about it and, you know, probably people will be split on it. But, I mean, the only thing I would say is it's not the same team, but you think of, like, what Pep Guardiola did to, I think, the best Manchester United team, not the team that won the treble, I think the team of 08, 09, I think 2007, I think Manchester United got to three Champions League finals, I think in four years.

34:07I think that was probably the best. Would you agree? I always say that, but the treble just... Yeah, because they've done it. Yeah, I get that. That team was probably the best. Yeah, that extra step. And I just think of what Pep Guardo... Yeah, it was Barcelona, and that's the best team I've ever seen, but I still think of what those teams did to the best Manchester United team I've seen. and Man City aren't as good as that team but it's just that the Pep Guardiola factor of how he sets teams up, how he plays in games who knows who would have won but I just... I think if City do go on and do the travel because you have to justify it and say well we did match them in terms of trophies I'd probably just say Manchester City One thing that we had at the time was we never really spoke about it and I was only 10 so I just barely remember it but we never really spoke about it because we won the league on the last day of the season So we never had that, are the leagues in the bag, we've got a cop final to look for.

35:02So that's one thing that could count on City, is the constant talk about a treble. You're playing Real Madrid, you're playing Man United, history comes into it. I think that could hopefully topple the ball. How many times have you seen it when it's like, even Liverpool fans, the quadruples on, and then the next week suddenly... This is the closest, this is real now. Even for me, in the past, when I've heard it, Liverpool win the quadruple act, I didn't pay a lot of attention to it. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Do you want me to get that text message you sent me? No, I'm saying Liverpool... What was it? Receipts?

35:34Liverpool had lots of hurdles that they had to get over and there was always a good chance that they wouldn't do it, even though there was a chance they could, but there was a good chance they would. With this now, this is real, this. City looked absolutely fired up like Maddie. That game against Bayern Munich at the Etihad, I thought was an unbelievable match to watch. I thought it was one of the top games I've seen. The first half, I thought they were amazing. I thought City were amazing. It was absolutely brilliant. But when you're playing at that level that City are in those games, like they were against Arsenal the other night, difficult to stop that.

36:01So you are going to have to rely upon something. Sometimes something happens that you can't explain. It usually happens to clubs like Liverpool, Real Madrid, sometimes Manchester United. These clubs do somehow have that... I don't know what it is, you can't even explain it. City have missed it in the Champions League. They've missed it in the Champions League for a few years. PSG have missed it. They've had the best players, the most expensive squads. but sometimes that weight of something just plays on you. So there's a long way to go for City but I do feel like it's a real opportunity for them.

36:29They may never get into a position again where they've got... I saw an article this morning, I think it was James Ducker or someone did it, where they said actually City have got like 11 games or 12 games but they've actually only got three really. They've got to play Real Madrid twice and Man United to win a treble. That's it. United's the issue, in the Centurion season, obviously we faced Stuart the Etihad, it was the earliest anyone could ever win a league. I think it was obviously to win the title against Man United and then Pogba scores a goal out of nowhere, Chris Smalling as well, and we lose the game out of nowhere.

36:57We could have got 103 points that season. So, you know, United have done it to us before and they could definitely, in the FA Cup final, score a corner, red cards, Kyle Walker, a mistake from Edison, anything can happen. Offside goal giving us a goal. Yeah, 100%. I hope that's the case. That'll be the best thing ever. Right, guys, that's all we've got time for. Thanks so much. We'll be back after the break with more Football Show.