Huge Overlap Daily Launch Show With Goldbridge, Carragher and Neville! EP 1

0:00Gary Neville: Overlap Daily is brought to you by our title sponsors SkyBet and SkyVegas.

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2:00You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com. slash start now. That's growtherapy.com slash start now. growtherapy.com slash start now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. Hello, this is Chris Winterbauer from What Went Wrong? TCM and Criterion joined forces for the plot thickens Stanley. This season's podcast traces Stanley Kubrick's journey from a curious Bronx teenager, first inspired by a camera gifted to him by his father, to a revolutionary filmmaker who rewrote the rules.

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3:36Gary Neville: I like that. Was that the other day? It wasn't. Oh, I like that. Smart, isn't it? Yeah, very good. Happy? Yeah, I like it. A couple of water bags. Can't beat a bit of Huel. Huel back. Huel's returned. And where am I sat, by the way, in this show? Here I am. Right back. Hey. Carragher and Goldbridge are in there. I'm just... Here we go. This is it. What a contradiction this table is. You've got flapjacks. You've got flapjacks and strawberries. Flapjacks and strawberries. What a contradiction. It's a salty continental breakfast. I've got a little bowl for him, please. We are recording this, aren't we?

4:18Gary Neville: Yeah. Right, let's go. We're doing it. I've started the show already. Goldbridge is hosting it, but to be fair, how can me and Carragher let Goldbridge host a show? We can't let Goldbridge host a show. This is the vanilla. It's back, Kieran. We couldn't live without Huel, could we? Kieran, should we do this show? We don't need... I've been waiting to step up for a while now, Gary. I can see. How big's your social media following? I don't do it. That's the problem. You've got a few a bet. Not that much. I don't post or anything. I don't... I should make more of an effort, but I'm lazy with it. What's your favourite show?

4:55Gary Neville: Stick to football? It's got to be stick to football. But that's... Overlap Daily's coming up on the ropes. Is Overlap Daily coming up on the ropes? No, I say that I love the main interviews, the walk and talk. Oh, yeah. Because that's how we started. We don't do many of them, do we? I did an interview yesterday for United. it's Sir Alex's 40th anniversary of him joining the club 1986 in a couple of weeks and I was saying we should have won more Champions Leagues he was saying about I said Liverpool never won a title I'd rather City get off scot-free than Carragher be given a retrospective title because he get one anyway he missed that year he won't in it anyway was he he said that he would have stayed on if he had known that they were going to go for it actually it would have come out of nowhere really Liverpool that title challenge didn't it with Rodgers No, he didn't come out of nowhere, that.

5:41Gary Neville: I think he did. No. Hey, by the way, one of the best bits of television, it was his first season on Sky. Yeah. One of the best bits of television I've ever seen. Do you know sometimes you're working with someone, he was early, and I was probably at that time the more sort of dominant punter than I was, because he was just joining. And they played Crystal Palace on a Monday night. Do you remember the game? I was there. Where you were 3-1 up. I was there, it cut to me. Yeah. Liverpool were 3-1 up. Yeah. And then they literally conceded two goals from set pieces. They kept dropping back too deep.

6:07Gary Neville: Hit to Moses, come off the bench. And he just went. what was that? I skipped school to go to that game I was saying you don't look like the sagging type to me Keane I can't imagine you getting off school Christian Bull Monday Night Football I was saying he was saying about will Cara get a title if City gets shipped to the title I'd rather City get off Scott Free than you win a title I'm the only one who doesn't nick one I miss out I miss out on it do you remember that first year you joined Sky yeah that was Liverpool and Liverpool were literally about to win it and obviously it was the yeah yeah is that the Gerrard yeah just doesn't slip yeah we're all part of the team now Gerard so you can't say stuff like that no well are you going to be yourself on this show I keep reading that you're not going to be yourself you've sold out well I'm there you go you're in there okay there you go I was actually thinking on the way up you know your punditry career is a bit like your player career isn't it go on have you got your lines ready and all that I've got my lines ready for you I've got my international breaks off yeah yeah you used to be a policeman didn't you yeah fraud this is why I'm here for the Man City stuff yeah but you are the biggest fraud aren't you when you think about it why is this your name's Mark but it's really Brent yeah and you say you're a Man United fan but you're really a Nottingham Forest fan well you yeah you know what I mean I mean you want to start with that it's picture you in an Everton kit in there but that's out there isn't it yeah are you really a Nottingham Forest fan no you are no come on no we can do a whole hour talking about that I messaged Mark last night I said look oh we're using cacutes last night no no no he messaged me at bloody five ten past five this morning he had Brighton Sunderland on the running order fucking Brighton Sunderland he said I said are we keeping all that in is that staying in or do you want that out I feel like you can't have that in no of course you can have it in you can have it in if you want yeah I want that in I want it out I said to him I said look Cara's a bit of a twat I said he'll definitely come in with some he'll definitely come in with a bit of shouts no I just you've just got to be prepared for what they come up you know what I mean I think what could he say to me he'll always attack first I can't think of anything I could say about Jamie do you know the first do you know the first Monday Night Football what was your line that you had for me it was no one wants to be no one grows up wanting to be a Gary Neville yeah first Monday Night Football bang straight in you know what I mean he comes prepared fair play he does come prepared now I do feel a bit intimidated because I've been at you both in the past I admit I'd have called you an idiot as well that's why that's why you never got on the fan debate please?

8:37Yeah. No. You actually replied to a tweet. You replied and went, somebody said, get Goldbridge on the fan debate and you replied, never.

8:46Gary Neville: No, no, I said then, it was just no. It wasn't never, was it? It was no. It wasn't never. I probably did a video on that. It wasn't no. It wasn't never, it was no. Carriger, it would just be, it would just be like. What's his worst statement on Carrer? Weasel. No, he wouldn't have called you a weasel. You're not a weasel. You're many things, but you're not a weasel. What's a weasel? A weasel's someone who's a bit like... Dodgy. Duplicitous, a little bit like sneaky. You're not sneaky. No. You're not sneaky. You're an arsehole, but you're not sneaky. Duplicitous. Duplicitous means you're a bit devious, a bit sneaky, a bit like sort of that.

9:21Gary Neville: You're not that. You're not that. Anyone else like that on the Overlap Daily?

9:27Gary Neville: Look at me, you know what I mean? Caro, do you know something? I love that picture behind. It's brilliant, that. Like a little... Do you think it's good, that? Who is it? What is that picture there? Who's done that picture? looks like someone's got some of that Dubai pistachio and just whacked it on the dish. Oh, don't mention pistachio. Cara loves pistachio. I love pistachio, yeah. But I actually love that picture. A different frame, I'd have that in my house, actually. And I don't have football pictures in my house. Shall we do it? I thought we were doing it.

9:56Gary Neville: Welcome to Overlap Daily, brought to you by Skybet. A brand new daily show with all the football stories and conversations you need to know about. Skybet have been a massive part of the overlap from the very beginning, so we're delighted to have them with us for the next chapter. Let's get started with our very first episode.

10:29Welcome to Overlap Daily, brought to you by Skybet. I've got Gary Neville and Jamie Carragher with me to discuss all the big topics we've got going on. Obviously, we're going to get into Liverpool against Man City, the return of the Premier League, the end of that horrible international break. But before we get into that... It's not been that bad. I've hated it.

10:48Gary Neville: But do you know something? Look, I think we've said this in the past, do you know something, though? I think the games I quite like, the England games. I actually enjoyed watching them. Well, I didn't watch them. I didn't watch too much of them. Why? I watched the England games. I don't know. I always clash the international break. I'm so, like, intense when the club game's on with Champions League and football. I almost see the international break as a bit of a... A holiday. Yeah. A bit like Lane Creek. Yeah, you're right. And what do you call it now? It's not even a... Oh, my mini retirement.

11:20But it can't be a mini one if it's a three-week opportunity. It's a long time for the... I mean, you both played at the highest level. I mean, three weeks. I look at it and go, if you're Harry Maguire or a Liverpool player that didn't get called up. That's a long break. I know some of them went on holiday, but you get that five-game momentum and then you've got three weeks. I think we're going to get some really funny results this weekend. Yeah, maybe. I mean, when you look at it, the reason it's been brought in is there's now only five weeks of international football before Christmas as opposed to six, basically.

11:50But then I was thinking, is it actually better for the England team or every international team and the manager? It's like having a little... Oh, definitely. you know rather than just they're here for a couple of weeks and then they're gone just that extra week must feel like you can probably do a debrief after games you know get into things that you probably can't do

12:06Gary Neville: do you know I thought about it I thought after the World Cup I thought Thomas Tuchel could get to September and he got a few dodgy results in these four matches he could end up in a bit of trouble you know like a bit of a negative yeah yeah say for three weeks or two and a half weeks and your manager is losing games it's a bit of a problem I bet the Portugal coach feels like it's been months do you know what I mean what he's been going through I think he has handled it brilliantly I think he's been outstanding Yeah, let's get into that. Let's get into the Ronaldo thing. Let's get into Ronaldo.

12:31Oh, my God. If anybody's not seen it, incredible stuff. I mean, the fact that Portugal won four games, he's got off to a very good start. But Ronaldo, we'll start with you, because you've had a bit of history. He didn't shake his hand, did he? I'm right. He didn't shake your hand as well? No, mine as well, yeah. Well, you can both have a say. Ronaldo, Jamie, what was your thoughts on that? I mean, the big headline was the Messi-Pele thing. No, the Pelé-Maradona stuff. I mean, it was always going to end like this, wasn't it, for Ronaldo? It ended Messi, didn't it, at United. I don't know if there was something similar at Juventus.

13:06And just the timing of the same night Messi retired for Argentina and the way he finished compared to Ronaldo. And it probably just sums both of them up, really, in terms of the type of people that they are. And maybe Messi is, you know, or has a massive ego, I'm sure he does or maybe he is hard work behind the scenes we don't know as much but maybe he hides it better but Ronaldo I mean that statement is just like you have to just keep reading at them points was it 6 points or 80 it was 8 points he wanted the manager to go and say but you know what I find unbelievable is that these people around them when you're that powerful and that good and this probably goes back to the Man City owners actually why does someone just give you a little tap on the shoulder and just go no, you can't put that out.

13:56You can't put that statement out on your Instagram. That's just like, you think that's a good thing. That just looks awful. It looks terrible. You know what I mean? And it's like, who are these people around me? This is the thing. He's too powerful, isn't he? He tells Ronaldo, no. He wanted the manager to go out and say, I've put a player on the bench at the calibre of Pelé and Maradona. I like the way he didn't mention Messi as well. You know what I mean? I mean, how would you say that about yourself? It's mad, isn't it? Imagine if you tried to do that with Sir Alex. I want an apology. I want you to talk about great full-backs like Jardino and Maldini.

14:30Gary Neville: I found it difficult at United, and he obviously fell out with me a little bit because he didn't come over. I was critical of him when it was at Brentford, I think, when he was huffing and puffing on the bench. He did a few things with Ole as well. I find it difficult because I remember the 18-year-old kid that came to United, and for two or three years, he was imperfect, to say the least. he was a young erratic winger who to be fair needed a lot of development and I actually wondered whether he would ever get to being top level at United let alone what he's done so what he's done is unbelievable his numbers are it it's absolutely incredible but the patience and the tolerance that was demonstrated to him by senior players when we were younger was incredible the development from the coaches the belief from the manager everything to try and make him a success and I I don't think that when he was at United the second time, he repaid the young...

15:20Gary Neville: I don't think he treated the young players like that. And I found that difficult. Hang on a minute, mate. We looked after. You were looked after by senior players. We made sure that you basically were protected on the pitch. We made sure that you were unable to do what you could do. And look, he's on and done it himself as well because he's been an unbelievable professional. But the patience that was demonstrated with him and the work that went into him and the mentorship that he had at United was incredible from the manager all the way down. Carlos Quiroz, Roy Keane, everybody. I can't even relate to this statement I read that statement I had to stop reading it part way through because I think what happens is in life when you stop in life when you stop realising that when the eight year old leaves you as a football player and you think you're that powerful I think you just lost complete enough but did that happen a long time ago I remember watching him I'll never forget this when Portugal won the Euros it was that 2016 I think in France I was at that game I took James when he's on the bench at the end I've never seen anything like that in my life I was like what is going on I was absolutely human and I was human Portugal won in the end because of the carry on from him he's gone off injured early on in the game and because I think the fella who come on for him had just scored the winner I think he might have done but because it's not about him it's happening on the pitch he then becomes the manager and he's stood up and he's jumping out hobbling pretending he's more hurt than he probably was and he's he's pushing the manager out of the way and he's giving instructions and he's honest I've never seen anything like it and then when the final whistle goes everyone runs onto the pitch or goes to the goal scorer he just stops and like sort of like he falls on the floor very like he can never it always has to be about him and I understand who he is and the great players and more often than not it's always about them but there are times when it's not very few times and he just he can't have that joy for somebody else he's got to try and bring someone else down he's obviously trying to get the manager sacked but I think the manager and also this is what happens and this is I've said to you before this is probably a little lesson for future pundits right it doesn't affect me and you but people think it's really good to have a be in with people in the game this is when it's a problem so you see people like Piers Morgan and Rio Ferdinand they were big people in the media whether you liked them or not absolutely embarrassing themselves with the nonsense that they're coming out with because they know Ronaldo and they want to get an interview with him and it's a bit like, oh my God, no.

17:47You leave yourself nowhere to go. Oh my God, it's just like... You can know someone and you can try and look after them a bit, but you can't defend him in defence.

17:56Gary Neville: I've been in that position where it's Oli at United towards the end when he was going to get sacked and I basically was getting hammered for not criticising him and you were poking me like crazy, if you remember. Yeah, but you weren't going over the top crazy when it wasn't going well. That's what they do. But basically, my view was I'm never going to criticise Oli going to Solskjaer. It's just not going to happen because to be fair, I think he's conducted himself with great class all the way through, irrespective of whether he's winning games or losing games. I find it really difficult with Cristiano because I actually love him to bits.

18:21Is that the normal Gary Neville caveat?

18:23Gary Neville: He won't love me to bits, but the fact of the matter is I can't sit there and see him at United in his second period doing what he was doing, and I can't see him make a statement like that and say, Cristiano, that's really well done. You know what I mean? You're doing well. He has to be pulled up on that. He has to be told. By who? That's the problem. But look, he's not going to listen to me or you. he's not listening to Mark but my point is that I can't sit here and say that I approve of that statement and think it was a good thing for him to do it makes him more difficult to like if you love him it makes him more difficult to like if you don't like him you make you dislike him even more what I would say is it's not irretrievable you know what I mean in another year when he's retired we will look back upon his greatness in his football and people won't remember this ending but to conduct himself the way in which he is going to need to do because in the next 35 years he's still going to have to appear he's still going to have to do things we all have to do things it's not matter who you are whether you're Messi Ronaldo we see Zlatan now one of two things you don't want to do we see Zlatan I mean we're sitting here with Mark Ulrich I mean that's the international break joke I've been waiting for this for five minutes I see some of the greatest players in the world Ruud Hullit Zlatan Lota Mateus Thierry Henry amazing players that you think they'll never be on television they'll never be pundits but you see them in the World Cup working for folks you see them on CBS some unbelievable players that you think wow I don't think I'd ever thought I'd see them on TV TV.

19:42Gary Neville: But there might be a point in the future where Cristiano needs to do something. I don't think he'll go on TV and be a pundit. But he will have to do something because that adrenaline, that stimulus every single day means he either has to be a coach, he either has to be a businessman, he either has to be a pundit. He will have to appear on shows or do things. And I think you've got 35, 40 years left in your life to sort of navigate that thing. Everyone could love you universally. You don't need to be disliked. You don't need to be disliked. When you think of the greats, I was thinking about this, when you think of Cruyff and Maradona and all that, you can't help 20, 30 years after the career just smile or think, oh my God, they're a legend.

20:19And I just thought, I wonder what that'll be with Ronaldo. I think we will smile. We will, yeah. I hope you do, but you can't continue like that because most of the all-time greats, you do remember them fondly, don't you?

20:32Gary Neville: But this week, I think, to be fair, it didn't surprise me that Ronaldo was thinking that because I think that's where he's at right now in his mind. I think when you've got a billion quid in the bank, I think when you're as powerful as he is, I think when you've had the achievements and career that he's had, you feel you're unbreakable, you feel you're unstoppable, you think you can dictate to a federation or a manager what to say. I'm really happy the manager stood his ground and did what he did. He wouldn't have done it. He'd have lost a lot of his soul if he'd have gone out and read those eight things out.

20:58Gary Neville: And everyone would have known where it would have come from. So I'm glad he did what he did. I think it was the right thing to do. And, yeah, let's see what happens. He wouldn't have done it 12 years ago, I don't think. I think where I disagree with you about Ronaldo in his second phase at United is that he definitely was turning up first and leaving last. And I think when you look at him physically... How do you know? I know people at Old Trafford. Are you involved in the club? No, not like that. I also think that what you can't take away from Ronaldo is that physically, the length of his career, he obviously puts the work in.

21:32But he wouldn't have done this 12 years ago because he would have just gone, I'm still one of the best players in the world I'm not going to get dropped by Portugal I'll prove my thing on the pitch what we've got here is and both of you probably know what it's all about it's a guy coming towards the end of his career who's losing his power and the only power he's got is to flex muscles and try and get a manager to say something ridiculous because he can't produce it on the pitch anymore whereas in the past he wouldn't be in that position and like you said Messi goes out to a massive applause and respect Ronaldo is tainting a legacy through his own doing.

22:07And that's very, very sad. And I think that he is struggling with retirement and he is struggling with losing that status visibly in front of us all. And I think it's sad to see. Because like you said, there's nobody there telling him, don't do that, don't do that. And this is what happens when you're too powerful. We see it in politics, we see it with actors, we're seeing it with Ronaldo.

22:29Gary Neville: Where's your book a number one bestseller? I'm not sure, but people don't know, will he? He just literally... It must be because mine went number one. He's just planted number one bestseller on the front of basically his book. I'll just wing it. Gary, 100 % will be because mine was for a week. Second to, I think, Katie Price. If you felt stuck trying to lose weight, you're not alone. Enter Weight Loss by HERS. It's designed to support you in reaching your goals. And HERS now offers access to an affordable range of FDA-approved GLP-1 medications, including the WeGovi pill and the WeGovi pen. Even better, with a range of affordable GLP-1 options, HERS makes it simple to find an approach that fits your needs and your budget.

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26:25Let's get into the Premier League. It's back. We spoke about international break. Let's talk about the Premier League. There's only one place to start. Anfield on Sunday. Liverpool, Man City. I want to get both your opinions now that the dust has settled on what punishment you'd give them because I know what I'd give them. But first of all, Liverpool on Sunday. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I want Liverpool to win. I want Liverpool to win because I think it's a win for Liverpool. I've got one worry about Sunday.

26:52Gary Neville: is that I'm not... If this was Klopp's Liverpool, they would drive them into the ground and literally finish them off in one day. They'd probably beat them 3-0 or 4-0. I'm not sure this Liverpool team... Because you know something, I was thinking this about the Cantona return game against Liverpool that I played in. I'm not saying it's similar, but it feels like everybody's waiting for this game. And we didn't turn up on the day. We were absolutely terrible. Liverpool were far better. We drew two all in the end. But I just wonder whether everybody from Liverpool on Sunday, the players in particular are thinking everyone's with us, everyone wants us, everyone's wanting us to win, because they are.

27:26Gary Neville: Everyone wants like, you know, it's that element of sort of lion's den isn't it? I just worry whether Liverpool have actually got it in them to be able to go and do it. I mean, Kerry, you know them better than me, but I just, I look at Liverpool and think, are they going to show up that lot? Because they need to show up. Did you play that game here? Old Trafford. The centenary where you walked Man City and we lost two, didn't we? Just something, Mark, I actually was speaking about it yesterday because I did this interview for Alex Ferguson's 40th. I made a couple of big mistakes against Liverpool in the Danny Murphy 1-0 games and I made big mistake in City, Sean Goal to last game at Main Road.

27:56Gary Neville: I sometimes didn't play very well and Rooney had the same problem with emotional games. United had a problem with emotional games. I don't think they've ever won on the 40th, 50th, 60th Munich anniversary. It's almost like that weight of emotion and pride that you want to serve the fans well. You know it's big and you don't turn up because you just got yourself into an emotional state. That's the thing about Liverpool on Sunday. I think City will be quite cold. in some ways. I just wonder whether, did you ever have problems like that? Charlotte's one said to me before a game, we were at Haydott Park, so we used to stay there before a Liverpool match.

28:31Gary Neville: He said, Neville, this is the last fucking time I'm picking you in this fucking match. He said, you make fucking mistakes every fucking time we play these fucking lot. And he said, what are you going to be doing tonight? And I went, I'll just go home having a Chinese boss. He went, well stop fucking panicking then, whatever happens, it's only fucking the game of football, you're going to go home having a Chinese tonight. And I used that as a coping mechanism for the next 10 years playing football do you know something what's the worst I worry about I'm having Chinese in a bit and do you know what did you have salt and pepper ribs do you know something he battered me in the team talk in front of the lads I remember Giggs in school he's having a right go at me I'd made the mistake against Goats I'd made the mistakes in the Danny Murphy games where I'd given cheap free kicks away and just not been right and he said fucking off's enough I'll not pick you and he threatened Rooney never to play against Everton and Liverpool again He's not a fucking pity on Merseyside ever again.

29:22Gary Neville: I just wonder whether that on Sunday might be a factor in the game. I actually worry a little bit. Not so much they'd get too sort of emotionally wrapped up in it all. Whether they will be, not up for it, but I don't think Iriola's the type to sort of ramp her up before the game. I mean, if I was thinking, you know, if I was the Liverpool manager and it was me, I'd be thinking, I'd be like saying, there's players in this gestation who have missed out on the league titles. this club should have another two or three league titles it means a lot to these people or whatever it would be and I'd ramp her up I think Klopp would ramp her up I don't think Iriola's that type and that's when you go to when people sometimes say and I know people don't like it they think Liverpool supporters sort of get all emotional about the managers and what they want from a certain type of manager and it's not just on the pitch sometimes at times it needs to be off the pitch and I think this is one of those moments I think in the press conference before the game but you think go on say it but I'm not sure I will I said this a couple of days ago Michael Carrick's we're obviously going out just at the time when Michael Carrick's going to be speaking I hope Michael does a strong press conference he's going to get asked a lot about this and the sort of what will be the safe bet is that he's done what the other six managers did yesterday which I saw it's not for me to make the decision and I get that I understand that's the right response but Michael you would have won extra league titles you were a Manchester United player.

30:46Gary Neville: So if he wasn't a Manchester United player, I'd say look, I'd let the authorities do it. But I think Michael just needs to make sure he bites a little bit. Not bites, he has to say something. I disagree with that, Gary, though. I disagree because I think that this is not, from a legal point of view, this is not... Oh, where's the policeman? Here's the policeman! Here's Brent! I'm glad you're not doing every week. This is guilt, though, and I think too many people over the last two weeks have got locked into this well, remember there's an appeal. If this was a criminal case and you get found guilty, you're on the front page.

31:23Have you got that exactly where you need that? I'll have a bit of that as well. But it's true. I think you're right. Carrick should come out and say they're guilty.

31:33Gary Neville: I'm not asking him to go basically against legal opinion. I'm not asking him to basically stick the knife into Manchester City. What I'm asking him to say, he's a Manchester United player. He understands the club well. He understands the passion of the fans. Manchester United fans have been calling it out for a few years, to be fair. Give them what they want. Right. Honestly, I'm not saying you should stick the knife in, but just say, look... Acknowledge it. We're monitoring it very closely, because it impacts us and it impacts our history. Just something like that. Something that sort of says...

31:58Gary Neville: Have you been directed? Because you... Who's doing Sky on Saturday? We don't get directed. Yeah. Well, I... We don't... We're not Sky's corporate. What do you call me? Sky corporate? We'll find out. We'll find out on Saturday. You're now Gary Neville's corporate. Who's comment... Right, no, I haven't finished. Who's commenting? We're both commenting. We'll come back to that. I think Andy Robertson said something on the international break. And I love Andy Robertson. And I just went, no. It was almost like, oh, those players were on the pitch. They did this. And I thought, and honest to God, if me and you were playing now, and this affected us, I know 100 % just the type of...

32:35100 % I'd have said no. It's a disgrace. If I was playing, 100%, you would have been the same. and I just think the players right now

32:44Gary Neville: Sir Alex would have gone for them he would have Sir Alex would have gone for them and do you know something he would have said to us stay out of it I'll deal with it yeah even just to get it's a Premier League race isn't it getting the race and look I think Michael's just got Jose did it well didn't he yeah do you know what I mean there's not enough of this anymore straight away he did it two weeks ago didn't he yeah I think look to be fair I can understand why certain managers stay away from it I can understand why certain managers are waiting for January, February and waiting for the appeal I understand that I understand why clubs are sort of staying clear of it but I think if you're a manager and you're trying to talk to a fan base that old adage of every time you do an interview you're speaking to your fans and you've got to represent your fans and I think there's an element of obviously making sure you speak with sense but I think that yeah I think I would like to think that we would say something that we would say look we're really interested in how this ends up because it impacts us it impacts us it impacts our club and look at the end of the day we'll see what happens in three, four months.

33:43There's nothing wrong with calling them cheats. If they get off with it on an appeal, then we'll all have to go back on that.

33:49Gary Neville: I've stayed clear using that. I've stayed clear using that word. I've said ultimately what they've been found guilty of is, you're right, it's financial doping, it's industrial scale wrongdoing in respect of sort of cooking the books, and you're right. But that word's very inflammatory, you know what I mean? I know others have used it, and I'm happy for others to use it. It's like, I've stopped saying bottle now, You say bottle now, it's almost like, oh, be careful. You know what I mean? But you know why I use it? Beth was on the fan debate with you the other day and she made a great point. She said, when this started in 2009, I was seven.

34:20She's now in her mid-twenties. I feel I've been cheated of integrity in football for the last 17 years, whether it's a Liverpool title or a United title. What the Premier League said is it's a sham. So what has we, as fans, meant to do with the last 17 years? No, I mean, the thing that... this thing and obviously we've seen the Prime Minister get involved and everyone's saying oh you can't say nothing until the appeal no you can't have you been found guilty and if they win the appeal so what happens then can the Premier League say oh no no no we're having an appeal so they are still guilty until they win that appeal when do these appeals stop they've got found massively guilty on like every charge I mean they should be sacking the lawyer remember the lawyer he wrote something about panic Lord panic I mean honest to God could we have done any worse than 114 or 115?

35:10What do you do now though, as Pundits in the mainstream on here, what are your thoughts on the rest of the season? Because if this takes six months, if Man City beat Liverpool on Sunday and turn up and Ireland gets a hat-trick and they're really good because they're a really good team, I'm sort of at the end of it going, I'm like going...

35:27Gary Neville: I think you're right, it'll be very difficult to watch Manchester City win the league this year, won't it? Just psychologically for everybody for the game. I don't think the Premier League going to let this run to the end of the season. Because if Manchester City are holding that Premier League title up in May, I think there'll be all hell break loose. I think this will have to be dealt with by February, March. And I think they're going to have to... They have to let due process happen. That's fine. And City think they're going to get off these charges. So let's see what happens with that. But there's no way you can get to the end of this season and see Manchester City win a title without a verdict being given.

36:01Gary Neville: It has to be given by then. You've had a couple of weeks, both of you. What would you give them now? because I know what I'd do. I think it has to be over a period of time. It can't be a case of people saying, I'll give them 80 or 100 points, and then they get relegated. They win the Championship the year after, they come back and everything. And it's not about trying to kill the club. Not like that. It's just that the fact of what they've done has gone on for so long, I think the punishment has to reflect that. So I think you're talking something over the three to five year period, whether that's they go down to League Two is one option.

36:32So you're thinking, okay, it'll take you three or four years to come back. Or it's a case of over three to five seasons, do they start every season with a 25, 30 points deduction? So you're almost putting them back to what they were before. That was when maybe they're a mid-table Premier League club for four or five years, and then they've got to try and build themselves back up. But it can't be a case where it's just one season. You have to hate them, really, in terms of the players have to move on and they almost have to start again, I would say, because it went on for so long and so many other teams were affected.

37:05Gary Neville: I don't disagree with that, it's one facet of the actual sort of what would be punishment that's available obviously to people to do, where are you at on the titles and where are you at on the ownership I think the titles should be taken off them for the period from 2008 to 2018 or beyond that as well I think it's hard beyond that and I understand the argument with people saying well if they hadn't have done that before they wouldn't have done that afterwards, I get that but I don't know, listen people cleverer than cleverer than me will probably understand that a little bit more Would you allocate them to Liverpool and say it's a Liverpool style?

37:38Not particularly it just doesn't I wouldn't want it as a fan as a United fan I wouldn't want the Aguero one No it just feels I mean maybe this is my Liverpool bias coming out but Liverpool when they you could say oh that's where they're going to Liverpool they were in a title race with City and they lose it by a point or two points and my argument is City had two or three extra players, that's what this money generates that probably gets them over the line. But when you've got a situation where I think Jose finished 20 points behind him or 25 points behind, even though the second, it just doesn't feel, do you understand what I mean?

38:16I must admit, that feels, that's why I'd stay away from it, I don't think it's a case of

38:20Gary Neville: we finish second, we get the league goals. He sort of went out the other day, didn't he, and said I want my medal you know, you're not quite strong, so I just thought that would be funny. But I must admit, it doesn't impact me at all, I'd retire by them but I feel that I don't feel like awarding the titles is the answer to other clubs I don't feel that's the answer but maybe stripping the titles is 100 % and then the big one is the ownership they have to go the big one is the ownership and to be fair Cara the big one is the ownership for the club for City and also for the oh you want to keep them for Manchester don't you no it's not I would say it will be and they should be separate by the way the football punishment should be separate from the actual regeneration and the investment into the city and what will be the land that they've got over on that side Why?

39:16Gary Neville: They should be separate in terms of the football punishment shouldn't be impacted by this, that's the right thing you shouldn't say well ok they're doing a lot over here so we'll not give them a lot of punishment over here you have to look at it separately because I'm an owner and a director and I know the actual criteria for that test it is a struggle I think for them to be able to keep their status it's a struggle because the owners and directors test is more strict than ever you have to jump through hoops to become a director of a football club now and an owner because that's right you can go back to Bury the people who ran that club who took it into the ground it should never have been anywhere near a football club and these are protected assets in the country there are 92 of them that are in the league currently but you've got all the non-league clubs you should have to have a very high standing a degree of what would be integrity to be an owner of a football club.

40:01So if you are criminally charged,

40:05Gary Neville: if you are found guilty of serious charges within football, it's very difficult to remain an owner of a football club and a director. It just is. That's just a statement of fact. That's not me offering an opinion. However, the colossal investment and current investments that they will have in Manchester, they would likely withdraw them, I would imagine, over a period of a year or two. I just imagine they would if they were kicked out of the league. That will have an enormous impact, and I think that's where, to be fair, Andy Burnham was trying to go when he first started to deal with it. He will know, obviously being the mayor of GMCA of Greater Manchester, he will understand the impact economically for the area if Manchester City's money was to be pulled out.

40:43Gary Neville: And there's a lot of people talk about Manchester City's money over on that side of the city, and they say, oh, they've been given a good deal and they've been given a free ride. I tell you what, if you went to East Manchester 15, 20 years ago, and said to any developer in Manchester or in this country, go and put a couple of billion quid into that, no one would have gone anywhere near it. So what they've done, by the way, is unbelievable. And by the way, not a lot of people would have been queuing up to put money into that area. So let's be really clear about that. I know this city like the back of my hand.

41:09Gary Neville: So the idea that people will say, oh, they've been given a free ride, that's absolute bullshit. You would not put your own money over that side of the city 20 years or so. So why have they put their own money in? What was the reason? So basically, literally, I think part of the deal of bringing them here to get this Commonwealth Games stadium, to buy a football club, was that as part of that, they basically encouraged them to put money into the wider regeneration, which I think most owners should have to do. If you said to me, FSG, what should they have to do? They should have to invest money.

41:36Gary Neville: And to be fair, look at what the Glazer family... I've hammered the Glazer family, Cara, for the last five, six years. Not necessarily always on the pitch, more because they haven't regenerated the stadium, they haven't regenerated the training ground, they haven't put money into the local area around this stadium. That really is a problem for me. I think FSG should... They have put massive amounts of money into Liverpool Stadium and they've made it a lot better. And they should continue to build that area out around Anfield to make sure it's better economically for everybody. So owners have a responsibility, I think, to do that, to build out the wider piece.

42:03Gary Neville: But it would have a devastating impact. This is just a statement of fact. This is not me sticking up from by there. I think they're going to struggle to keep their ownership. I think the executives are going to be in big trouble. Because if it's the same test that I have to follow to be director and owner, they're going to fail it. Simple as that. However, I'm just letting you know, it would have a massive economic impact, a colossal impact on the city. Isn't the whole point of them putting money in there was that when it comes to a day like we've got now, it's almost like, oh, we do this. We do this for you.

42:30It's almost like... I don't think... Come on, they must be putting massive pressure on politicians right now to try and get a deal.

42:37Gary Neville: Cara, I think they've thought that basically they probably would get away with this and they weren't doing anything wrong. Cara, we all thought when the under-and-fifteen charges came out they'll probably get 20, 25 and they'll get away. We didn't think they'd get found guilty of 140 out of the under-and-fifteen. The point I'm trying to make is when you're talking about FSG or the Glazer and you'll probably go to any ownership in this country no one's probably done what they've done in terms of what they've done in the city but the reason they've done it is to make sure that they get looked after if it goes wrong, that's the way I'm looking at it The accusation is sports washing isn't it?

43:07That's what it is and they've got so much money because if Qatar had got United they were going to do the same

43:11Gary Neville: There's a lot of international money that's come into Manchester over the last 15-20 years and there's two ways to look at it they're coming into our city to exploit us That's the first way of looking at it. That's one way of looking at it. The way I look at it is they could choose to put their money, as could American money, as could Singaporean money, if they could choose any city in Europe, they could choose Munich, they could choose Merseyside, Liverpool, they could choose Sunderland, they could choose Bristol, they could choose Birmingham, they could choose Paris, they could choose anywhere to put these billions of pounds.

43:41Gary Neville: They chose our city. And we shouldn't, to be fair, ever think that that's something that ultimately isn't important. Manchester does thrive on investment from local people, but it thrives on investment from national people and international people. We know how the economy works here. So the reality of it is, the idea is that they come in to exploit Manchester, is one way of looking at it. The other way is, they could have chosen Berlin. They could have chosen Everton as their club. They could have chosen Birmingham City as their club. They could have chosen Aston Villa as their club. They could have chosen Liverpool at the time, probably 15 years ago.

44:12Gary Neville: They've got Liverpool. So my point is, I don't think we should just look at it and think, I don't think we should just look at it in thinking that's sort of what would be way that they've come over here and they've just exploited Manchester and that's what they were always doing. They could have chosen other cities to place their billions of pounds. They've got no affiliation to Man City. No, I'm not saying they have. Exactly, so what I'm saying is it's not like... They've come over and that's what it goes back to. Those countries, the issues that go on over there, but they've chose a football club and then put money into that city.

44:43Could have been anywhere, I get that, but they haven't done it because they've got any link to Manchester City so they've done it as like a PR scheme for themselves from the very start and it's blew up in the face and now they're trying to use the fact that they've built a part of Manchester you know better than me maybe struggling as well and they've built it up and it's something amazing so obviously they then use that when they're in a little bit of trouble and they're in that bit of trouble and they must be I just think this is going to grow arms and legs and the stuff will be coming out every day, not even the football stuff now with politicians, different people, Manchester government, they'd be trying to get favours they'd be trying to get people to put pressure on the Premier League, and that's the whole point

45:26Gary Neville: Mark, I think you've asked Caro what he thinks the punishment should be and he thinks he should be stripped of the titles, he thinks he should have a multi-year punishment in terms of points and he thinks the owners should go, I completely agree with him. Would you kick him down the league? Salford, Man City would be a good game? I think the multi-year punishment, whether they're in mid-table Premier League or whether they're in League 2 I must admit I'm not into the idea of them in League 2 League 1 Championship and back up from what I hear from a City fan this morning that I was speaking to out in Manchester they're all going to wear retro kits on Sunday the old kits and they're all bananas and they're going to go back to the 80s and say look we're willing to go back with our team and I think it's a pretty good message from City fans saying we don't care we love this club and we'll go back to how we were before if we need be so I think if they do that well done to them my view is the owners can't stay because I fill in the directors and owners test and I want, to be fair, there to be a consistency across the board in terms of how you are a director and owner of a football club.

46:19Gary Neville: So the owners are going to struggle to stay on the executives. I think they should be stripped of the titles in the period from 08 to 18, whenever it was, and I think they should have a multi-year points punishment. But I'm just giving you the context. Would you rather them be, I think just from a selfish point of view and that we do TV, I almost think I'd rather them, rather than go down the leagues, I think I'd probably rather them have minus 30 points for four years in the Premier League. Probably. So there's still a story. Yeah, probably. You're still watching them. I'm not fixated on being relegated, because to be fair, I think a lot of people are, though.

46:51But for me,

46:52Gary Neville: Manchester City are a Premier League club, and I want them to return. I want these clubs to be in the Premier League. All I'm giving the context before of is I can understand why politicians, the Premier League, probably the regulator, are looking at the impact of removing the owners and licences and thinking, this is off the scale if we do this and they'll be like they'll be they'll be nervous I'm giving you a context of what this will mean just generally for a football club for a city for an east side of Manchester it will be it will be an it will be horrific in terms of economic impact so I'm not saying that we should I've said what my punishment should be but I can see why politicians, leagues regulators are going to be thinking this is a nightmare This is a nightmare for us.

47:40This is a nightmare. It's a big problem for us. Look what happened to Scottish football when they threw Rangers down. Everybody wanted it to happen and then it's suddenly like there's no Rangers Celtic. I agree with you. I think if you give a 30-point deduction, it makes it interesting for all of us. They're not going to win the league. They might not get in the Champions League. Well, they might not get in the Champions League. They also might... What happens with players that go, Erling Haaland, well, I'm not going to play in the Champions League. I'm going to leave. Then suddenly you might get relegated.

48:04And I'll tell you what, if you get relegated in year three with a 30 points deduction. When you come back, you've still got two more years of it. Give them five years of a 30 point deduction. Don't destroy Man City. Fans are innocent. And also, they broke the rules. I don't agree with the rules. I fundamentally don't agree with the rules. And that's not an argument because they broke the rules. But I don't like the fact that Brentford, Brighton, Everton cannot join the status quo and win the league. They can't do that. But they voted for the rules. Yeah, but they broke them. They broke them. I don't agree with them.

48:37You made the point that basically they wanted to stop other teams doing what they did.

48:42Gary Neville: Mark, do you know something? I am actually in complete agreement with Manchester City that they should be able to... What Blackburn did with Jack Walker by spending that money and going to win the Premier League, Manchester City should have been allowed to do, in my opinion. I don't like the rules. Manchester City would have been better saying, I'm not voting for the rules, but they did and tried to close the door behind them. So I'm not voting for the rules. I'm challenging the elites. I'm taking them on in 2008, 9, 10, 11, whenever it was. I'm going to carry on spending my money. I'm going to break the rules.

49:11Gary Neville: I'm going to challenge these lot who are trying to stop us. I'm going to fight them in courts because it's basically a restriction of us spending money. If I wanted to spend money tomorrow in Huel, if I want to spend£3 billion tomorrow in Huel and take it into ultimate different territories, the owners can. You can make that gamble. In football, you can't. You're restricted on what you can spend. Now, we know all the reasons why, so that there's controls in the game. So I get it. and there are controls in American sport and different sports in different countries, but actually disagree with the rules.

49:39Gary Neville: So I would have had more probably sort of sympathy and compassion for City if they'd not voted for the rules, if they'd challenged the status quo of basically clubs being where they are, spend the money on it and basically fought the league every single year. I think a lot of people would have come with them and said, yeah, because Newcastle are in the same position, Villa are in the same position, Everton might be in the same position. Other clubs are in the same position. They could have made this argument completely different, I think. and I think they'd have brought a lot of the game with them, certainly 50 % of them.

50:06I think it needs to go there. Yeah, but if they'd have said, so they're adamant they've done nothing wrong. If they'd have said, you know what? Yeah, we did. But us as owners, we're pumping money into Manchester. We're pumping money into the Premier League. The Glazers are taking it out. How can we compete? If they'd have held their hands and said, yeah, we tried to do this, we tried to do that. We'll take our punishment, but these are wrong. I think these have took a lot of people with them. but I think they're going to drag the game down with them and that's why I think they have to go because I think because they're so powerful they're so rich they've never been told no and this is an embarrassment for them because they've bought this club as a PR scheme and they've got to keep fighting and we all know it we've all been in situations where you think I've gone this far I've got to keep going I can't go back now so it's like they can't go back so they're going to have to keep going if they lose their peer which I think they will they'll still say oh the Premier League are going to get against us and what they'll end up doing is they'll just keep this going for years and years and years and there'll be such negativity around Man City that's why I feel like they'd have to go and Man City almost start again as a club because I think even if they won anything in the future they'd still have that sort of staying if the owner's there and I just don't think they're ever going to back down or say they did anything wrong what I can't believe is or what I find funny when I think of like the top people now we all think listen they got found guilty people are saying are they guilty they got found guilty they're appealing it but when they speak to the players when they come back and we've done nothing wrong do you reckon they go back inside for a little cup of tea you know like Soriano but what's the do you think they all go do you think we blagged them do you think do you think they believe us they must know in the room whether they've done the sponsorship stuff

51:45Gary Neville: no Cara I think they genuinely believe that they found a way so basically what they'll say is that Manchester United's shirt deal at that time by Chevrolet was£60 million I'm making it up £60 million a year we can have a deal at£60 million a year. And basically, that's what they thought. Rather than put owner funding in, which they're not allowed to do, which they should have been allowed to do up to the level of Manchester United, they've just matched Manchester United and Real Madrid's sponsorship deals. They've just seen what they're at and they're like, OK, we can sponsor our club for that.

52:13Gary Neville: We can put a naming rights deal on that's massive money. And they've just driven the revenues up that way, basically. With their own companies. They know they can't do it. No, what I'm saying to you is that I think that they feel like that ultimately, if Etihad or if Abu Dhabi Telecoms want to spend£60 million on a shirt deal, what's wrong with that? Because basically, Manchester United have got someone spending that money and we're a massive club and we've got Pep Guardiola. They're all emailing each other, telling each other money. That's a problem. That was clumsy. That was clumsy. There's definite similarities between Man City's behaviour and Ronaldo's, isn't it?

52:45It's almost like it's this arrogance of, you know, I'm beyond it.

52:49Gary Neville: We said this in Super League. Super League, they got off scot-free after Super League. The six owners of the clubs, to be fair, were basically going and going to Super League and destroy the ethos of the game in this country forever if they got away with that. But if that had happened, it was never going to happen. But if that would have happened, it would have destroyed English football forever. But also Dutch football, French football, Italian football, Spanish football, they tried to run away with the crown jewels. They got fined 11 million quid each. When you've got billionaire megalomaniacs basically running football clubs that have never been told no because they're so successful, you're always going to have this greed and selfishness.

53:21Gary Neville: And this goes to big picture, project big picture. This goes to Super League. This goes to this now. You have got a situation whereby you have got the most successful business people in the world now coming into media. They're now coming into politics. They're now coming into sport. And they're literally hovering over everything and everybody. And that's where we're at.

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55:45That's growtherapy.com. slash start now. Growtherapy.com slash start now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. Let's take it back to football. Man United Spurs, 5.30 Saturday. What about,

56:04Gary Neville: because the pressure up until that Friday, two weeks ago, was all about Manchester United, the running stats, the fact that they'd not run in that game against Fulham. All of a sudden, Manchester United and Tottenham, which was actually a game that I'm frightened to death about, by the way. I was two and a half weeks ago. Now everything's gone to City Liverpool. I think it's massive. Are you frightened that United will lose or are you frightened of what a loss would mean? I'm frightened of what a loss would mean on Saturday at Old Trafford. But to be fair, I think a lot of the City stuff has almost pulled away from the United story that was emerging.

56:37Gary Neville: That just generally, they're not running. I think... Look, if they lose on Saturday, it'll still be a problem and they'll make the headlines. but still I think everybody's looking to that game Sunday. This game on Sunday now consumes everything this weekend, it feels like. It transcends football, doesn't it? It does. It's almost like it's captured everything in the country and globally. Do you know what I mean? It's literally consumed everybody, Liverpool and City. So even if United and Tottenham on Saturday, let's say United were to lose that game, hope it doesn't happen, but if it did, I think it would almost still be a bit less serious than it would have been three weeks ago.

57:11I don't know what you think. but it will change very quickly because it's Manchester United and I don't know who you've got the following weekend but you've got Atletico Madrid away Leeds away Leeds away yeah Leeds away two I do a newspaper column one's come out this morning we haven't mentioned it yet on this show I thought we might have mentioned it it's in the Telegraph Jamie Carragher writes for the Telegraph yeah he's the wife of the Mail what was the headline Gary what was under you can't ignore them or something what was it what what was your your thing about like Hated or adored. Hated or adored or something like that.

57:43Yeah, Marmite. Something like that. Right, moving on from that. Can I edit that out? But I did the newspaper column. And sometimes when you do a newspaper column, you're thinking about it for a couple of days, what I'll do, and you think, you're trying to get ahead of a story, if I'm being totally honest. You think, can I say something now that maybe people will be saying in a week? And I looked at United's week when they played City, Brighton midweek, and Fulham. I thought, I just thought, I thought they'll lose to City. not in those circumstances but I thought they'd probably lose to City Brighton at home in the Cup is one of those games that people think you should win but it's a tough game they end up losing so I did it on the Manchester City one saying this is a massive week going into the international break if it doesn't go well for Michael Carrick at Loweby to talk now that's become as we've mentioned City but I just feel like this is another massive week it just feels like these weeks now you're thinking this could be a bad one I think he's totally safe, I do.

58:40I saw your tweet or post about it and I think you got a bit of stick for it, you know, because it was a little bit sort of like Carrick's not the right guy for United or something along those lines. But it's been totally misconstrued what I said, because that's what happens on social media. I've actually defended Michael Carrick. I've actually said he should have got the job. I actually think he should stay in the job till the end of the season. the point I'm making is I don't see Michael Carrick as the manager who's going to get Manchester United back to win in the league I'm just basically saying he's not elite manager one of the best managers in the world that's basically what I'm saying what I'm saying is he's done a brilliant job so far for Manchester United when you look at the game since day one when I did the newspaper column up until that point and I think they drew at Everton the week before in the first how many games it was he had a better record than Klopp he had a better record than Arteta so I put all that in the column.

59:31So what I'm saying is I think Michael Carrick should just be allowed to get to the end of the season, make sure Manchester United can make them a Champions League club again and then I think that's the time for Manchester United to go again. I don't think Manchester United should be thinking about changing the manager at any stage this season. No, that can't happen. No, that's my point. I think he's almost there. I still see him as an interim manager in my eyes. Yeah, that's the problem. He's there as like you were there, it was really messy with Amaran, get us back to everyone being calm. That's what Manchester United are.

59:59Champions League football, Do the same again next season, guarantee us the Champions League money, and then we'll see, basically, if we need that elite Champions League winning manager. I think it's just so unambitious, though. I mean, I think I sort of agree with what you're saying about Carrick. I think he has those limitations. But I think the club in the summer to finish third, there was an opportunity there. The summer transfer window was so unambitious. I think the signings in the midfield, you know, you're almost in a position where Belaber's got to be the next Caicedo because if he isn't, Santos already looks a bit dodgy.

1:00:33Tillemans hasn't got the legs. We haven't replaced Casemiro. I think he scored nine Premier League goals last season and a lot of those were from corners. Harry Maguire was a threat from that, but it helps if you've got Casemiro there as well. We're not good from set pieces. The defence is ageing. Obviously, Cesco's now injured, but you've only got one attacker. I do agree with you that Man Utd with Carrick looks like a club that's sort of looking for fourth and fifth. but as a fan it's been 10 years we still don't have an identity of play either this thing about finishing third last season oh my god you know what I mean it was just like Liverpool and Chelsea were horrendous last year you had no cup competitions you weren't in Europe it wasn't a case that we finish third we can go and challenge the top two that was never going to happen but it is if you go and buy look at everybody else you keep saying about buying every summer you're still paying for players you bought like a year or two ago if you keep buying players and spending 150, 200 million every summer and you don't really do not and you qualify for the Champions League once in four or five years, eventually the money runs out a bit where you go, you know what, we've just got to take it easy for a bit now.

1:01:34You have to. So who do you think they should have bought in the summer? Where's the money coming from? You can't spend£250 million every summer and not make the Champions League.

1:01:42Gary Neville: When I look back now and I think, look, understand, they need three midfield players. What Agatha gave them was another body which would have enabled them to basically probably spend£100 million on one and maybe£80 million on another or£60 million or£70 million or another. So they might have got then, you know, Fernandes that went to Spurs and they might have got, say, Tenali as an example. They might have got two of those for£180 million. Because obviously Igarate got injured, they definitely needed three. So what they've done is they've lost their first three targets. They've lost Anderson, they've lost Fernandes, they've lost Tenali.

1:02:12Gary Neville: They were definitely their three targets, I think, initially, as their sort of prime three. They've ended up with, obviously, Belieber, Santos and Thingy. I just wonder whether they've been better off spending the money on two of the better ones. I agree. and then maybe having a young kid as a fourth midfield player. So Garty, obviously, he's out for it. Because you've got Mainu as well. Mainu's there, so Mainu's the one, but you do need four midfield players. And then Bruno might have had to have come back and done a job or whatever. Martin as he goes into midfield, I'm making it up. I just wonder now whether we'd been better off spending on two of the ones that they wanted, big money, than having the three that are almost like semi-good money.

1:02:45Gary Neville: You know what I mean? Well, look, at Liverpool, they've gone and got Barcoli, spent good money on him. It's the right signing to do. I think Elliot Anderson was the player. I think he's a fantastic player. I think he's shown that. He wasn't ever coming to United before. But we're going back to City, aren't we? City have inflated prices and transfer fees because they can do that. But, I mean, look, to be fair, though, Bank United playing Spurs, no win could be worse. I think what's going on from Spurs, from your point of view, because I look at their signings, Tonali, Fernandes, they already had some good players.

1:03:17I like Van Heek. I like the signing of Sanessi

1:03:20Gary Neville: That's what worries me about Saturday It's an ugly game But it's been so bad Was it last game Villa? They lost to Villa Do you know something They've done alright They did alright Against Everton Spurs They did alright At times against Villa I don't know if it's a bit like That's all they've got Or they're coming Or they're getting A little bit better But When you think of The Zerby team And I think of Brighton A few times At Old Trafford I don't know if the Zerby Was the manager For me being totally honest Exactly But I do remember Brighton a few times it's a big pitch Old Stafford and if they sort of knock it out and they're getting players between the lines I don't know why I've been worried about this game are you doing the game?

1:03:58Gary Neville: yeah I've been worried about this game for three weeks from Fulham what I saw in the first part of the second half against Fulham Fulham were the bottom of the league and that's the context of saying that I thought it was one of the worst performances I've seen in like 45 years the worst 15 minutes I've seen do you know the reason I said it You would have given him a stick a few years ago. He's entitled to his opinion. You know why I said it for 15 minutes and I saw that goal coming? Is that I've never seen Manchester United against the bottom of a league team in a game that they need to win when they're 0-0.

1:04:31Gary Neville: Be so passive and so static and just not run. And I didn't have the running stats, by the way, at that time. We didn't have running stats at Manchester United with the 20th in the league at sprints at high distance and all that sort of stuff. That came out after the game. but I watched them and I thought I don't think I've ever seen a Manchester United team run as little as this in a football match against the bottom of the league in a game that they have to win I don't think I've ever seen it for a 15 minute period it was like they were just like literally mannequins I was like what are you doing?

1:04:59Did you see Carrick's comments in his autobiography? No I've not seen that So a few days later obviously it was in the international break all the running stats are coming out and someone's been through Carrick's autobiography and he was talking about when David Moyes came into United and Moyes started maybe obviously Ferguson didn't but Moyes was getting the running stats up and having to go to the players for not doing the running. So this is obviously when they're winning leagues and he put a big thing in it, basically saying running stats are rubbish. Loads of nonsense, really. And he's probably just using that because David Moyes was saying it and they weren't doing that well.

1:05:30But he was talking about when we were winning things at United, it wasn't about running and stuff like that. It was about what we did with the goal. There's definitely a drop-off from, and I know Amrim got a lot of stick, but from the first two games of Carrick in January when we played Arsenal and City and then it started tailed off and I don't know whether there's anything in the whole Amrim had them at a certain fitness level Carrick sort of slowed it down but you're right against Fulham it was very very bad

1:05:55Gary Neville: it wasn't just the running stats it wasn't just the static mannequin things so basically if you're in a 4-4-2 and I'm a midfield player let's say I'm Cobby Mania it's the fact that they were doing this they're quite upright if they're like this and the speed that I'm moving at now, you can see that they're sort of ready. If the body language is such, I don't think, maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm creating a picture of my football career that wasn't there, and maybe I'm sort of thinking that I did a lot better than I sort of, what would be... We all do that. Actually, I always think, I think of Brian Kidd and I think of Nobby Styles and I think of Eric Tarisson, and you're always in that crouched position.

1:06:37Gary Neville: Yeah, ready. For a number of reasons. One is that you're ready to go, But secondly, if you're low like that, it means you can go that way as well. It means you can go that way. If you're walking like that, you can never sprint from an upright start. It's impossible. The reason that sprinters get down clouds low and explode is because it's quicker to do it that way. So the more upright you are and the more you're walking like this, the less you are going to be able to sprint at football. I don't see that, almost like that scouring, that sort of praying. I don't see that, that body language of a player.

1:07:07Gary Neville: and that's what I saw in that game for 15 minutes. Look, and I might have got it wrong in terms of the starkness of my quote, but I just felt against the bottom of the league. But you know you've got Carrick on the side and he gets a lot of stick because of his press conferences being boring, his post-match conferences being boring. Obviously, we've got stick to United with Wayne and obviously he's played with Carrick, but he's come out and said he's got to do more from the touchline. He's got to do more in a press conference because there are passive managers. The team's passive, the manager's passive.

1:07:43Gary Neville: But Mikel Akatesi gets a lot of criticism for being out of his technical area, for being always... So if you think about it, if you're a manager and you're passive like that, it's all about winning. Klopp was unbelievable on the touchline in Conte and Mourinho because they were winning. When Alex Ferguson used to come out and stand in his technical area towards the end of the game and peer at everybody, he was bullying everyone he was just standing there knowing he was us he was sending a message to us he was sending a message to the referee he was sending a message to the opposition manager you know what I mean these managers if you win everything's fine and I'm trying to think of a manager that is like Michael Carrick that's so peaceful Sven Sven was like that he was absolutely like that but Michael Carrick's composure that he has was a real strength for the club last season if you think about Amorim's press conferences they were so erratic he called us the worst club in it He's called the worst team in Manchester United's history in his own press conference.

1:08:38Gary Neville: Get on with you. He didn't know what was going to come out next of his mouth, to be fair. He couldn't control his mouth. We liked his honesty. But when Michael came in, it was seen as being a real step forward. That he was composed, he was in control, everything was calm. If we didn't win a game, he was calm. If we won a game, he was calm. If we beat City and Arsenal, which we did in the first two matches, he was calm. He wasn't getting carried away. Which other manager? Who is another manager? Wenger. Eh? Wenger. Arsenal Wenger. Arsene Beng is a great example. And Michael Carrick can't be something he's not.

1:09:09He was like that as a footballer, wasn't he? He was calm, he was controlled. He wasn't a Roy Keane type of footballer. So I agree with you sometimes, you want things from your manager. And I mentioned that before about Iriola, in terms of what will he be like in the press conference. You're after him already. Do you know when he mentions it like that, he's after him already? No, I'm just saying they can't be something they're not. I like Iriola, I think he's a good coach. No, I do. But what I'm saying is they can't be something they're not. You know, it's not an act. And so Michael Carrick, if he starts, I always remember Graham Potter at Chelsea and I think what we're saying here about Michael Tarrant no but I think that was sort of levelled at him there wasn't no sort of

1:09:44Gary Neville: the passion yeah and he started doing it a little bit I remember there was something about he swore in a press and I thought it just felt it just didn't feel like him it didn't feel real it felt fake do you pick up on it as players though because one thing we don't know as fans is that when your manager walks out and you've had a bad performance and he goes I can't be unhappy with the players they've put it in You then sit on the train or the bus and go, we're all right. But do you know something, Mike? I'm thinking back to my four months in Valencia and how I was. Do you know something? I literally lived a life of four months, me, in the sense that as a football player, everything was about tenacity, everything was about aggression, everything was about sort of making sure that we were organised and we're disciplined and we run hard.

1:10:25Gary Neville: And I tried to be this coach on the touchline that sort of like probably was trying to copy other coaches of maybe like that I thought would look the right way. and I wasn't myself I should have just been in that technical area probably more like Arteta more like Conte probably screaming at everybody and being more like a Simeone because that's my character and I wasn't I was sat there and I was like a fucking baby I was like a baby you know what I mean I'm just sat there in that technical area Is that also to come down to when you think your lack of experience you don't know what you're at you've just been coming to this and you don't what am I supposed to do and that comes from that sort of learning maybe if you're coaching Manchester United deserves or something you're picking things up how you want to be in a technical area.

1:11:06Gary Neville: It happened with my commentary with Sky. People think probably I joined Sky 2011 season. I didn't do a big game until literally that was August. I didn't do a big game until February, March eight months later because the first six, seven months I was absolutely useless. I was trying to copy other commentators. I was rigid. I was a bit stiff. Even on Monday Night Football I was sweating. My hands were everywhere. And I remember, I remember I did a game, I did Aston Villa v Manchester City, and to be fair, it was a bit of a nothing game on a Sunday, I think it was like two o 'clock kick-off, it was the two o 'clock or the four o 'clock, I can't remember.

1:11:44Gary Neville: And I remember the producer, Ingrid Scott, who works with us here now in the overlap, and he went, I think he was on the brink of almost pulling me out, because he said, Gary, you're going to have to start fucking going for it. You're going to have to start fucking going for it. He said, just be yourself, just be yourself like you are off camera. and I started bringing in I started just being a fan really the goalgasm came a month later ah ah because that's my when I'm watching a game of football and I see someone I react and I started being that person on the commentary but all of a sudden I felt free do you know what I mean and it's true as a manager I was like sat there in that I stood there in that technical area I remember Phil fifth goal went in against Barcelona and I was sat down on the bench guys you're going to have to get out there guys you're going to have to get out there and you made me go stand on the table Phil put me up there on the top and I was stood there and Joseph I thought oh my I stood there in the technical area like this yeah it's like don't want to go so far I can't go back now what do I do now what do I do now we'll lose you 5-0 without a 10 men they've got Messi Suarez and Neymar and I tell you what they look quick jeez they look quick it's like I was at that game wasn't I yeah out of your comfort zone like you wouldn't believe but it's true until you just being yourself is important and Michael's never going to be he's never going to be Strelitz Ferguson he's never going to be Klopp he's never going to be Pep Guardiola or Conte or Mourinho he's just not that character he's got to be himself yeah any other games you're looking forward to this weekend?

1:13:12are there any? I'm doing what's the Arsenal game at lunch? I'm doing a watch along of that on Overlap Daily and Liverpool Manchester United yeah that's on a different channel we don't watch that that's on this channel oh do you watch that on your channel? yeah yeah have you not seen Mark's watch alongs? no but I thought you just did Man United stuff No, no. I'll do him on here. Well, we've changed the name now. Yeah. So you've sold out, don't they? No. Well, Liverpool Man City Sunday. Moving on, Shripple. What do you want me to say? I don't really want me to say. I remember that Ricky Gervais.

1:13:43He's just got some dollars out of me. Give him his cash. He's got cash. Give him his cash. It's in me cold pocket. Go get Cara's cash. No way. He's the fraud. I remember that extras episode. Have you seen it with Ricky Gervais where David Bowie does the song? and he goes I feel I've sold out and he writes this song about him because he's written a sitcom which has got gimmicks and everything like that in it I don't understand the sold out thing maybe you can explain it to me I don't understand it because like I'm sat with you I'm sat with you still doing my watch alongs still saying what I want to say I mean if anything that's you know should be your emotion isn't it

1:14:16Gary Neville: rewarded should be rewarded yeah no I've got a big weekend though yeah Man United Tottenham Liverpool City big games them aren't they yeah Bundesliga tonight A few quid for hotel football. Oh, there'll be a bit of cash coming across the table. Oh, yeah. It's not about that, James. Are you doing a Q &A before the game? No, no. Do you know what I'm doing before the game? You know what I do at 3 o 'clock on a Saturday before a 5 o 'clock, 5.30 game, don't you? Watch Salford. I watch Salford on my iPad. Top of the league? I watch Salford on my iPad on the gantry. I get up there at 3 o 'clock. Well, 5 to 3.

1:14:50Gary Neville: I have my sandwich. I have my pack of crisps. I have my chocolate bar. I have my couple of bottles of water I have my iPad on and do you know something usually it's Rob Hawthorne that sits next to me and we watch Salford Rob prepares a little bit for the game obviously because he has to I get the team so I have a little look who's playing and then literally I watch the game until five to five I literally watch Salford and then switch on for the game then What do you do in the winter if you need a piss on the gantry? Oh that is a major problem Do you know something to take the worst place in the world for that although to be fair I've not been for two years because they banned me if you're at Forest and you're on the gantry you're on the gantry you can't get to a toilet but City Anfield Liverpool Arsenal you just walk out into the concourse with the fans you just walk out to the concourse with Arsenal fans the game's going on the game's going on we're not five though we can moderate when we go to the toilet you don't go at half time the toilet Cara, at Liverpool and City in Arsenal, I will jump up and go to the toilet at half-time into the concourse with the Liverpool fans, with Arsenal.

1:16:00Gary Neville: I put my hood up and I literally will go in and I always wait for that moment with my hood up when you're at the toilet. I'm thinking some Liverpool fans or some City fans are just going to throw my head again. I just always think that's going to happen, but we have security with us now, don't we? Much neither.

1:16:21OK, welcome to Six of the Best, brought to you by Super 6. This is the debut of the O 'Black Dably, so we're going to be discussing the six best Premier League debuts. I think some of these might be up for debate as well.

1:16:34Gary Neville: Without looking at that, can I just name a couple that stand out for me straight away? Max Dowman, just because he was 15, I just thought it was unbelievable just to see someone playing at 15 in the Premier League. I remember a debut as a fan. I watched Tony Cotty score a hat-trick on his debut for Everton in 1988 against Newcastle. Everton won 4-0. Graeme Sharp got the other one. Cotty scored a hat-trick. Scored after about 30 seconds of the game. What was your debut? I scored on my full debut. First game I played, I came on at Middlesbrough away in a Carabao Coral and Cup game. And then about a week later, started in the Premier League scored at Anfield against Aston Villa What was your debut Gary?

1:17:20Gary Neville: My first full debut was the 94 last game of the season, we'd already won the league and we were getting ready for the FA Cup final the week after and we had a game at Old Trafford against Coventry in the Premier League, it was Brian Robson's last game ever for the club my full debut for the club and obviously the week after that they went and won the double. Is that Old Trafford? Old Trafford. They want the David Boost one No, that was later. I played in the Rude Van Nistelrooy one year. It was a bad day for me. It was the first game of the season. I played centre-back with Yap Stamp. I got subbed, I think, at half-time.

1:17:53Gary Neville: They absolutely battered us. It was Lewis Bormorti and Saha, and they killed us about two, three games on the bounce in the Championship and in the Premier League. And we won 3-2, but honestly, Rude was sensational. I was on the bench in that game, the Ravinelli game. It was the first time I was on the bench for Liverpool. You're in the dressing room, aren't you? I've done pre-season but you're in the dressing room with the players Ronnie Moran and all that and I always remember Mark Wright after the game because everyone's fuming because we haven't won so Middlesbrough it says they come from behind three times so and Mark Wright comes in and someone said something about Ravinelli and Mark Wright he never heard us but he meant just like in the game somebody scored a fucking three you know Ronnie Moran you know what I mean just like all sticks in my mind Let's go through them then we've got Erling Haaland West Ham against Man City 2-0 scored both goals on his Premier League debut later broke the Premier League record with 36 got Rashford against Arsenal 3-2 this is his Premier League debut was that Louis van Gaal giving him his debut?

1:18:52yeah scored twice against Michelin in Europa League a few days before that but also scored twice against Arsenal Aguero 4-0 against Swansea in 2011 scored with nine minutes of coming on he came off the bench to do that Van Nistelrooy you've mentioned 3-2 against Fulham scored twice as well Klinsmann against Spurs sorry for Spurs against Sheffield Wednesday in 94 scored the fourth and then Ravinelli as Jamie mentioned 3-3 I think Marseille should be there for the Liverpool goal are we choosing the best there

1:19:23Gary Neville: yeah we've got to choose the best I think Max Downman should be in there I think that was sensational that for me just the 15 year old coming on in the Premier League in the modern day I think there's probably about 20 debuts better than a lot of them we can choose them we'd have to choose these I'd go Marseille against Liverpool came off the bench won it. What, you think that's the best debut? It was a good debut. I think it was a very good one. Ravinelli just scored a hat-trick. Well, Ravinelli could go on there. Ravinelli, first game in English football, hat-trick. Did you see that picture of Ravinelli the other day?

1:19:52It was Giannino. He was on stage somewhere, yeah. He looked, because he's obviously got silver hair, he didn't look like he'd aged much at all. Giannino looked like he'd had a hard paper on.

1:19:59Gary Neville: I think Aguero, because I remember it, doing Monday Night Football, and we made a big build-up, and it was at a point where you thought City are starting to get, like, pretty good. And I just thought, do you know something, The way in which he moved and the way in which he hit the ball, I thought, oh, that's not good for us. Do you think that's not good for you? Can we pick a Man City one after what we've spoken about at the top of the show? Yeah, it's all cheating, isn't it? Danny Rose. Swansea should get the points back. In the North London derby, it was like a 40-yard loss. Oh, yeah, I remember that.

1:20:28Gary Neville: Let's go Ravanelli at the top. I want Max Downman in there because I think the 15-year-old playing in the Premier League in 2026 is unbelievable. The physical advances in football now to get a 15-year-old in the actual Premier League is unbelievable. Do you want to mention Downman again? Well, where are we putting him? Because you've got to take top six. I'm not that interested in it. In the Downman one? No. Oh, for God's sake. A 15-year-old playing in the Premier League. Did he score? No, but it's just an achievement in itself. Oh, no, you can't put it on. I don't remember what. No, he was the assist, though.

1:20:58Gary Neville: He put the cross in here for the assist. Did he? Was this against Everton? I was at the end of the last season. I think you're milking it, Gary. Eh? I think you're milking it a bit. OK. Let their comments decide. Well, I think a 15-year-old playing in the... Do you know something? The best thing to do is think of a 15-year-old that you know. My daughter was 15 at that time, just doing the GCSEs. And I'm thinking... Have you seen Lukaku at 15? I'm just saying it can happen. You can get. But I get it. He won a penalty on his debut, Downman. Who? He won a penalty on his debut. He won a penalty on his debut.

1:21:3015 years of age. Gary wants to put Downman in. I'd put Martial in. your game well you get it

1:21:36Gary Neville: because it's actually in did Fernando Torres have a good debut that was his second game was it Chelsea won it that was his Anfield debut oh ok yeah yes yeah Michael Owen scored in his Premier League debut but he's got to be something a bit special hasn't he I'll tell you what Shearer's Newcastle debut no Blackburn Blackburn away at Crystal Southampton no no he had two but Rooney's debut for United against Fenerbahce he's like he's on the Premier League I know but But it has to be Premier League. I mean, can we bend it a little bit? We've had enough bending of the rules in Manchester. Anyway.

1:22:12Yeah, Man City ones shouldn't even be there. They should be taken out. That was Super 6. Six of the best. Don't forget to enter your Super 6 predictions on the app for a chance of winning£1 million. 18 plus. Terms and conditions apply.

1:22:30Where's the question about who's the ballon door? Yeah, I think we ran out of time. Who is Ballon d 'Or? We can do it now, though. Who is the Ballon d 'Or? No, it's the best player to never win the Ballon d 'Or. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Who is the best player to never win the Ballon d 'Or, then? I was thinking straight away, Thierry Henry. I think Xabi and Iniesta. I was going to say Xabi, and then I was going to think maybe Maldini.

1:22:50Gary Neville: I'd go Maldini. I'd go Maldini. Maldini's a legend, isn't he? Everyone loves him. Beresi finished second in that one time. I don't know if Maldini's ever finished second in it. He might not. I remember when Beresi died. people took you for a centre-back Van Dijk finished second didn't that behind Messi won you I think the Premier League was neglected neglected the Premier League because of if you think about Rooney Gerrard in terms of the Ballon d 'Or yeah because it hit that point didn't it with Messi and Ronaldo in 08 where it was them every year I think in the early notice Ronaldo won it whilst he was at United I'm talking about English players really OK that's all for today on the Overlap Daily brought to you by Skybet we're back on Monday with Becky Ives and Steven Gerrard at 4pm so make sure you tune in for that Thanks very much, Jamie, for coming on the show and being so nice and accommodating.

1:23:35And thanks to Gary as well.

1:23:38Gary Neville: What a lovely closing link that was. I was looking for the one-liner. We're not usually surrounded by professionalism, are we? No, no, and we're not now.

1:23:48That is definitely a good out, that one.

1:23:52Gary Neville: Right. I had a good quote from Mark as well. For Gary. Let's get back in then. Let's get back in. Go on. Get back in. Shh. So it's after you put, what do you call it, Petr Cech above Peter Smeichel in the rankings. So Mark said, take your stats, get a big tube of lube and ram them right up your arse. Because the eye test is what it's all about. When Peter Smeichel was playing in his prime, nobody takes Petr Cech over him. Nobody. So that's a straight load of bollocks from the off. I must have been in a bad mood that day and we'll look forward to the lube partnership for next week I like that well done lube fucking lube run

1:24:54Gary Neville: this has been a Global and the Overlap production

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1:26:43Gary Neville: Thanks to our title sponsors, Skybet and SkyVegas. We'll see you next time. This has been a Global and the Overlap production.