Isak to Liverpool? Gyokeres' Arsenal Impact & Can Chelsea Challenge?

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1:55We'll see you next time. a cast today. 150 million for me feels like Mbappe. I don't want people to spend 150 million on Uzzah. If 84, 85 wins you the league title maybe we can do it. The guy can't stay fit enough to score 20. He's not going to make 20 appearances let alone score 20 goals. I think you'll find him a bit fitter this year. Yeah. Oh yeah. Simon I can't help but notice you've got a black eye. I mean all the time things what's the other fella look like? Does Zarteta really want him? is he the main one he wants? He wants to go first. What would you want to ask? Ooh. Ooh! It might be me getting the black eye.

2:37I don't want to see Endo or Gavin Baird or a youth player at Centre Arbon. Or Carruth. You might get to call me, yeah. Fingers crossed.

2:50Hello and a huge welcome back to the new season of The Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet. Scolsy's back with me once again. We've got our supporters here and we've got Martin Ziegler, the Chief Football Writer from the Times. So thank you, Martin, for joining us. And don't panic because not every supporter is here. There is going to be another episode coming out this week as well. So we will have every supporter involved and get their views as well right now. So I'll start with you, Scolzi. Summit, talk to me. Where have you been? What have you been doing? Plenty of golf, really, Jamie. A couple of trips to Portugal, one with the lads and then one with family, obviously.

3:29Lads' ones more lively? Yes. Getting excited with the business of Man United over the summer, keeping abreast of it? Yeah, of course. It's looking a little bit more promising, I think. It's never easy to judge pre-season games, I don't think, but from what we've seen so far, it's looking a little bit lively. I think, in general, the team look fitter, more athletic than they did last year. because as we've said, it's only pre-season fixes. So we'll see once the real thing starts and see where we're at. Go from there. So, Gareth, I want to start with you. And we're going to start with the tragic event of Diogo Jota and his brother, Andre Silva.

4:11I just wanted to speak to you initially how it's affected you and how much Liverpool will miss Diogo. Yeah, it's just, it's incredibly sad, isn't it? And shocking. And, you know, when the news broke, I couldn't believe it, to be honest. I think a lot of Liverpool fans said the same thing. That, you know, it was one of those events where you were like, you know, where were you when you found out that type of thing? Because you're looking at your phone in almost disbelief. And I think my first thoughts, you know, I'm a parent myself and my first thoughts were as family. And I just thought, you know, to lose not just one summer two in one event, like that, so sad and I know some people that work for the club and I saw some of their social medias around the time and they were saying we put these people on a pedestal and we talk about them as superstars and all that kind of thing but ultimately they're just a group of mates aren't they?

5:07They work with each other, the colleagues and I think it's going to be very difficult for everyone, anyone with a stake in Liverpool, just to sort of brush this aside, I think it's going to be with us for a long, long time and rightly so. Obviously the club have got ideas how they're going to get a memorial in place and things like that. We saw at the recent friendlies in the 20th minute they stopped and paid their respects. I think all that kind of stuff is going to go on for a while and rightly so and you know in the role I do as a day job as supporters role I deal with a lot of people from the club and I've said to quite a few of them I think how the club's handled is being brilliant because it's such a hard thing to call to do the right thing over and over again because someone somewhere will have to say it and say, you shouldn't have done this or you shouldn't have done that.

5:57But I think how they've dealt with it's been brilliant. I found it personally quite cathartic to go down to Anfield. I laid some flowers on behalf of Spirits of Shankly and signed the Book of Condolences and that kind of thing. And I found that a good thing to do to just sort of clear my head around it, really. But, you know, I'm just a supporter. I'm just someone who watched them play football. And like I said at the top there, you know, my first thought to it with his family, with his wife, with his children. It's just so incredibly sad. Yeah, it has been. I think it's one of those moments, isn't it, where it's not really a Liverpool thing for me.

6:35It's a football thing. I think every supporter, everybody involved... A human thing? Pardon? It's a human thing? Yeah, yeah. So I think it probably touched us all, didn't we, as football fans. but in terms of what Liverpool have done in the summer in terms of bringing players in they've spent a lot of money I think close to 300 million it doesn't feel like the Liverpool way of doing things so much or certainly if you listen to some supporters who've been on the owner's case for so long where are you at with the transfer business Liverpool have done? It's very exciting obviously you know it doesn't feel there is a change there I think you're not looking at players now where you're signing them for a club that's been relegated and then you're trying to polish them up into something else.

7:20You're going and buying ready-made superstars, basically. None of these players that have come in were unknown quantities. We know exactly who they are, where they're from and what they've done. We know the clubs that we've beaten to their signature. We're still trying to do more business as well. I watched the two recent friendlies and we look incredible going forward. I think it's going to be an incredibly exciting season. and I think Liverpool will hit a lot of teams on the break and those teams will be able to stop Liverpool. I'm a little bit worried about the other way. Same, yeah. We've only got three senior centre-halves as things stand and as I sit here talking, one's injured, one's ill and one's only playing half of a match because they're that worried about them type of thing.

8:04So I don't want to see Endo or Gavin Burke or a youth player at centre-half. you might get the call mate but you know I do feel we need to go and rectify that obviously we've been linked with Gehi but it seems to have gone quite quiet perhaps Liverpool don't want to pay £50 million for someone in the last year of the contract feels to me they've got to do something though I just don't feel like you can go into the season with that I know Arna Slott said that Gravenberg can fill that Endo can fill but we need Gravenberg in midfield that's where he's been brilliant That's where he was superb last season, one of our best players.

8:44And then Endo, who doesn't love Endo? All the will in the world, but he's not a centre-half and he's certainly not a world-class centre-half. So I'm hoping we can rectify that before we get going. Martin, I want to ask you about the Isak situation. Where are we up to now? It almost feels like the saga of the summer and it's still rumbling on. Yeah, well, I think we know that Liverpool have had an initial offer of£110 million rejected by Newcastle. But my understanding, Isak was their number one transfer target right at the start of the window. And I'm sure that remains the case. So Isak didn't go on the Far East tour with Newcastle.

9:22He went to trade with his old club, Real Sociedad. Appears that he really wants to go to Liverpool. So I think in this situation, you would expect that's going to happen. It's just a matter of the amount of money Liverpool are prepared to pay. And I think there's still a lot of time to go in the window. I'm sure they'll come back with more money and if Newcastle are in the position now where they have a player who doesn't want to be there it looks like the likely outcome is he will go to Liverpool Newcastle will get a huge transfer fee and they're already apparently looking at Sesco as a replacement so I think that's what's going to happen and I mean what an incredible signing he will be for Liverpool along with Florian Wirtz and Kirchhez.

10:10I mean, they're looking very, very strong. Listen, it will be an amazing signing. From a Liverpool fan's point of view, for myself, I don't want Liverpool to spend£150 million on Isak. You've just said there that he was Liverpool's number one target. I can probably imagine that. But there's something about Liverpool buying another striker for£80 million and he's back up. there's something about it just doesn't quite feel right to me that I know Liverpool need numbers obviously for a number of reasons at the top end of the pitch but when you're saying he was the number one target do you have any insight in terms of why Liverpool then went and got Etatike you know first and then I look at Isaac and he's obviously threw his toys out the pram once Arsenal have signed a striker and Liverpool have signed a striker I'm thinking from him and his agent's point of view did they not tell Newcastle months ago that they wanted to move on because it just feels a little bit messy for me now for me when I think of Liverpool it doesn't look really planned I don't think the plan is to go and buy a striker for£80 million and then be looking to buy another one for£120 I don't know I know exactly what you mean but you can't turn it down no you think as Gareth said there I think when you win the league I think a lot of teams almost relax but when we win the leagues go again you buy your real furtherlands we bought the Wayne Roonies you bring more quality don't you and Liverpool have done that I agree with you though the planning seems weird doesn't it it doesn't feel Liverpool like to me that's what I would say no yeah well you didn't spend anything last year did you so there is that money there and the ambition now will be to the best in Europe of course it will and look if you bring Isak into it you're going to have the best centre forward in the world at this point I know you're saying as a Liverpool fan it feels a bit uncomfortable spending 100 as a United fan I'd have him for 150 million I want Liverpool to sign up I feel a little bit for Etta TK a little bit because he's been sort of brought in and then all of a sudden this Isak thing has come from because Liverpool initially phone Newcastle and say you know you're thinking of selling him because you're going for Etatike then they go for him but I do want Everpool to sign him but £150 million for me feels like Mbappe you should be getting Mbappe for£150 million you know that's does the numbers or the money like that ever sort of are you bothered about that or it does make you shift a little bit and you see you know the whole thing yeah it does and I worry we've talked about it on here before about the general direction of football and where it's going and where someone eventually draws a line but equally, you know, Liverpool can't afford it.

12:59They have won the league. They did sit on their hands in quite a few transfer windows in the past. And I kind of get what Scolese's saying, like, you know, go for it from a position of strength. We've won the league. And the last time we defended the league, I think, was mid-80s, wasn't it? So, you know, let's go for it again. And I think as well, if you look at it from, you know, the planning perspective, if you're like, OK, they won the league, they won it by 10 points, they won it with games to spare last season. but they did tire towards the end because he was relying on a core, didn't they?

13:29They went out to Champions League, they lost the League Cup final, they lost to Fulham in April when they looked knackered then as well and so I do think there's maybe thinking there of I'll manage the minutes a lot more, there'll be a lot more rotation and look, ultimately it is exciting, they can afford it, it's something they've built up to for a long time and as you say, all the people that have absolutely fumed about Liverpool not doing transfers over the years are suddenly very quiet, aren't they? I think you mentioned the centre-half, so I think it's a big one. You mentioned it at the start of last year, if you remember, a left-sided centre.

14:03Probably Palace fans won't be happy, but I think Gaye is absolutely perfect for it. I think they will get one. Yeah. It's just what kind of quality you talk about. Are you going to spend 50 million quid on a player who's in his last year of his contract? But looking at Gaye, he looks probably worth it to me.

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16:28Simon, the big rivalry last year was Arsenal and Liverpool. Not just for the title, I felt for a lot of last season, there was a rivalry over Izak, you know, and other Newcastle supporters weren't too happy. But Jokeres has come in. I mean, is he going to be the big difference? Because it feels like there's going to be a lot resting on his shoulders to make that difference for Arsenal? Well, there really is, right? Because this is the one, the whole summer, and last summer, and in the January transfer window, it was just striker, striker, striker, striker. And a lot of the games that Arsenal struggled in, they were making chances, but nobody was putting them away.

16:59So he absolutely has to hit the ground running, as clichéd as that is. And that's not easy, because he scored the most goals in Europe last season. But how many times, I'm not saying the Portuguese league is bad, but how many times you see people come over and they take a little while to bet in, I don't think he's going to get that time at all. If you get to January 2026 and Arsenal are in the exact same position they were the year before, everyone is then going to start saying, well, how has this not changed anything? I don't think that's going to happen. I think that he will be aware of that.

17:27And also with 70 million in the end, right? Which is a lot of money. I know the ISAC thing, that makes it feel like the steal of the summer. But it's going to be, he's just going to have to, he's just going to have to score a bunch of goals. That's it. There's no two ways about it because otherwise Arsenal critics, especially can be like, well, you told us you just needed a striker and now you've got a striker and nothing's changed. What people will do is they'll start looking at Arteta, won't they? They'll be like, well, you filled the hole and the hole didn't make a difference. Which is why I'm kind of intrigued from you guys' point of view as well.

17:55Because obviously you see the game differently to how I will. Do you think he fits into what Arteta wants to do? Does he strengthen the way that Arteta wants to play? You know what I thought was really interesting? James, who comes on from Arsenal sometimes from the Athletic with a piece when the signing was done. And he intimated it in the column that he wrote that, it was more of a sporting director signing. He was sort of, you know, reading through, it looks like I think the club were in for Sesco for probably going back six months, and that the new sporting director coming in is really pushed.

18:24They have a private relationship, don't they? They've worked together before, is that right? The sporting director in Jokka is? I think that's true. Oh, I'm not sure. I think so, I'm not sure. I don't know what you're on. But I thought it was just an interesting little nugget in the piece, he obviously got his information, as he always does, and I thought it was really interesting and how that'll sort of affect, sort of Arteta going forward in terms of picking him. But no, it's... I mean, Scholes, you've been saying it for a long time. Yeah, it's on the forward. Just wonder if you chose the right one.

18:50You don't know until it happens. I think James got a good point. I wasn't... Because there was a lot of umming and ahhing about him, he was taking a bit of time. I was wondering, does Arteta really want him? Is he the main one he wants? I wasn't too sure. Now, look, he's got him and it's... He's had a really strange career path, I think. can't he? He has, honestly. Word, Brighton, Coventry, and he's gone to Sporting Lisbon, and his goal record is absolutely brilliant. You know, you can't take that away from him. And you think, if any team that you could go to that creates chances, then it should be ours, and it should be a really good match, but we just don't know until it happens.

19:31I think it will be, just because I think Arteta is very good. He will change systems up depending on the team that he's playing in. I mean, he's quite, sometimes he overthinks it for sure. But I just think if we're in another one of those situations where we're 2-0 up and then magically by the 65th minute, it's 2-2. Happens a lot if you go through. Even if Jokeres hasn't started that game, which would be weird, but let's say he hasn't, then you can just change your tactics to you go on and you score. And every Arsenal fan I've talked to is, we don't want to drop him back, don't do Harry Kane type stuff.

19:59Not even Izak, because Izak kind of sort of gets himself around. He's not that type of player anyway. He's more of a bulldozer. Exactly, and that's what his job should be. You score goals. Who was it? Was it Neil Warnock that once said to a player, if you drop behind the halfway line, I'll never play you again. That's what Arteta should say to Jokeres. You stay there and you don't move there. I think we're going to get Neil Warwick into the fan debate. No, that's true. I remember he said it once and I was like, that's what Jokeres' tactics... The only thing I'd say against Jokeres, really, with Sporting Legs, he's probably playing on a counter-attack a lot in Europe, especially.

20:30You think of Arsenal, they have the ball an awful lot. Now, is he going to be clever enough to make these little runs in behind? A lot of it you see, He's sprinting from the halfway line almost, and he can't keep up with him. He's ramming people up there. He's quick, and he's smashing the ball in. Now, is he going to be that clever striker? We know Isak can do that, don't we? Oh, yeah. I think that's why Jokers do that. You know what I thought was interesting? Even though the two teams were going for the title last season, Liverpool and Arsenal, all the supporters were probably crying out for a centre-forward.

20:59Obviously, Isak was the dream for probably both teams, but they both went for different strikers and were not both in for the same striker, if you know what I mean. so you know I don't think we're interested there it didn't seem like Arsenal were interested to take out you know probably completely different sorts of players maybe different styles so I do think it'll be interesting but Simon I can't help but notice you've got a black eye I mean all the time I'm thinking what's the other fella look like somebody insults Arsenal you know I just punch him right in the face but obviously it was from my professional wrestling yes somebody we all know it's sports entertainment is the word somebody threw one that was a bit too tough I leaned in a bit too much and then this But genuinely, you should have seen it last week.

21:37If I had come on last week, you would have thought I almost died. It was like the size of my face. I just like to think it makes me look really cool. I think it does. But listen, we're going to go from that now to Forest Palace. Now, I'm hoping by the time this show ends, no one else has got a black eye on the air. So we've got... Pretty nice for that. We've got Greg and Dan. Who wants to go first? What do you want to ask? Ooh. Ooh! Ooh! Maybe me getting the black eye. Because all summer, we've won our first ever major trophy and all summer, all we've heard is March 1st, you should have checked your emails, red tape this, I'm bored of talking about it, but I'm here, so if you want to ask, I'll do it.

22:20Come on, talk us through from your point of view. My initial point of view is, it's extremely harsh. I think if you were a bigger club, a bigger name, someone who'd been in Europe a bit more, But I think something would have been done to make sure you were in Europa League. And the reason I say that is I go back to Liverpool a long time ago. 20 years ago, we won the Champions League. But we didn't finish in the top four of that season. And there was no rule to say that the winners went straight in. It was just the top four. And they managed to find a way that we went into the qualifying round.

22:58They managed to find a way, basically, to get us in there. And I think that probably would have been the case. if it was a bigger name rather than yourselves, Crystal Palace, who's had a history of being in European football. Sorry, I think it happened a little bit with Man United as well, and Marty might not, but with the Jim Ratcliffe, was he not involved with Lyon as well at the same time? Nice, sorry. Was there a similar type of issue with them? There was last season with Man United and Nice and also Manchester City and Girona. And what UEFA did then, they sort of gave them advance warning, saying that you need to put some of these clubs into a blind trust, so the ownership structure has changed.

23:38But they changed the rules for this season, and they brought in this March the first deadline. And I think it wasn't done with a huge amount of publicity. So, yeah, clearly Crystal Palace weren't aware of that and probably didn't think that there was a chance they were going to be in the Europa League anyway. And now it's a question, you know, is it rules is rules? and the Court of Arbitration for Sport will decide. Matt, where do you think we're at with it right now? What do you think are the chances of Crystal Palace getting back into the Europa League? I think it's a challenge because if you look at the UEFA rules, then there's no way, any exemption for selling your shares afterwards.

24:19John Tex has sold his Crystal Palace shares, so there is no conflict of interest. But because there's this deadline, according to UEFA's rule book, I can't see a way around it. I mean, who knows what the lawyers can... If they get a really good lawyer, hopefully they can get something which goes in their favour. But in a strict sort of legal sense, I think it's going to be a challenge. Dan, will you disappoint me? Listen, I don't know this, but sort of reading reports, I mean, it looks like Nuttangham Forest have been pushing UEFA as well. Grasses. Clarifying the rules. Grasses. Clarifying the rules.

24:57This is where the ambiguity of the situation comes in, because the argument of the March 1st deadline is that it's hard and fast. I believe the reason that Forrest are sending a lawyer to the CAS hearing on Friday is because they are worried about what we are going to put forward in terms of when they had their shares put into Blunt Trust, because I believe, and I can't tell you how I know this, but I do, that it wasn't until well beyond the March 1st deadline. and that is fine if you're going to play the game of allowing people to move deadlines because of certain circumstances. But realistically, if you're going to tell us that a March 1st deadline is hard and fast when we were in a round of 16 against Millwall and had never won the cup before and John Texter was actively trying to sell his shares because he didn't have decisive influence, I don't think it's particularly fair to say, oh, a year ago it was July 1st after the season's finished, but now we've moved it in March, you weren't in it, Lyon weren't in it, he's no longer got shares at Palace, he's no longer involved at Lyon, but you're still not allowed in.

25:54It just feels absolutely ridiculous. And the law is the law, but if there is no reason for shares to be put in blind trust because the two clubs aren't owned by the same person at all in terms of actual shares, then where's the worry about collusion anyway? Do you see my point? It's like, if John Texter was still here, I'd get it to a certain extent. He sold all of his shares. He stepped down from Leon's board and a draw for the Europa League hasn't even been made yet. So why are we in a situation where we're not allowed to play because of potential collusion with Leon, they're named in the case on Friday at Cass.

26:26And that's why Forrest are going, because they're named in the case. They're named in the case, but if they didn't have anything to worry about in terms of the deadline of March the... From a law point, you would always take a delegation if you're named in the case. We'll find out. I can't tell you why. Were you not on this show a couple of years ago when you were saying you were happy for Nottingham Forrest to break the rules? And we paid for it. And we stayed up. Yeah, and we paid for it. We got our four points deducted, and we didn't, I mean, there's breaking the rules and there's spending a bit too much money.

26:56Again, like you, there's breaking the rules. Do you class that as breaking the rules? Well, they're there, aren't we? But we won in the competition on March 1st. Yeah, but you need to be a little bit more positive and say there's a chance we can win the FA Cup. A club who have lived for 120 years and never won it. But that's not an excuse in law, is it? He was trying to sell the shares at the time. Well, why didn't you then put them in a blind trust? Because you can't sell the shares when they're in blind trust. I had loads of sympathy for Palace, I did. It's mental. But after all this weeks of just barrage and abuse now, I just think...

27:24Well, for me, my argument is this whole thing of Palace. People are annoyed because Forest keep on going, rules are rules. No, we're not. We're just answering questions. I've heard it probably four million times. Yeah, because we're answering the questions that everyone's sending at us. All we can do is be there and say, right, we're in the Conference League. Now Palace broke the rules, they're in the Conference League, we're in the Europa League. Great. I get to go to Europe a little bit more excited. You've got more chance of winning the Conference League as well, haven't you? Yeah, but as I've said, that's like saying you're going to get a PS5 for Christmas.

27:54You think you're getting it. And then someone goes, this is a PS4 game. You're like, I'll still play it, but I'd rather a PS5. Yeah, but you'll know for next year now. That's like, the thing is, like, you've just admitted yourself, like, yeah, the rules are the rules. Yeah, but we won't need. Can I just, the thing, listen, when this was going on in the summer, I was looking at it from sort of bold club's point of view. I mean, were Nottingham Forest actively pushing UEFA? That's a matter of ambiguity, isn't it? OK. The court case on Friday has specific documentation about this. I'd feel a little bit uneasy that...

28:31I don't think... If yous have made a mistake and UEFA make their decision, it's not Nottingham Forest's fault. No, I agree. And I think you just stand back if you're Nottingham Forest. You're not there to help Crystal Palace. But I don't like the thing of if Forest were pushing. Because at the end of the day, you've won the FA Cup. We all know what that means. You should, in terms of signing some documents or whatever. Now, Forrest, if they get put in the Europa League, great for them. But there's something about if Forrest did get involved in it, I just think you shouldn't be pushing it. You should stand back and let them.

29:01We did do the right thing. Forrest could actually do the right thing here and come out and say, do you know what? Crystal Palace, via Sporting Merit, earned this amazing moment. They beat Manchester City, Guardiola's Manchester City, to win their first ever trophy. and via sporting merit have earned the right to compete in the Europa League. I can't believe Chelsea fans say that's sporting merit and doing the right thing. That's just ridiculous. But Nottingham Forest could easily do the right thing here and say we don't want their place. It's Crystal Palace's place, we don't want it. What, I don't know, were you going to say, oh yeah, you're right?

29:34Well, Robbie Fowler said David Seaman didn't foul him in the box, didn't he? You can do the right thing. You can come out and say that it wasn't a foul. I think the right thing to do, though, is not get involved. Yeah, but what if you... Oh, you're more than just... Just let the Lord... Do you not think we could be a little bit more proactive? Take care of it. I know what you're saying, like, so what, just stand back and hope for the best, but do you not think that... Not hope for the best, just let the people decide to make the right decision. Why aren't... What I didn't get is, why aren't Palace fans, like, on Parishers back, or on the ownership's back?

30:02Because Steve Parish... Why are they on everyone's book themselves? Because Steve Parish couldn't put John Texter's shares into blinds rust anyway. But why didn't they say this on March 1st, then, that we've got an issue here, or April 1st, or when you're in the semi-final? Because according to John Texter, he did not have decisive control at Crystal Palace, which is why he tried to sell the club, or at least part of the club that he owned, because he didn't have any control. Why do you want to be in it anyway? You didn't earn it. It's not your place. The World Cup junkies. Why do you want to be in it?

30:27How have you got in that? He didn't earn it. It's not your place. It's Palace's place. Palace deserve it. Did Chelsea earn? Of course we did. Of course we did. According to every metric to get into that competition, the reason that we played it, The reason that we won silverware in New York City is because we earned the right to be there. Oh, so you're saying the rules. You earn the right through the rules. I know, whether you agree with the metric that's used... I agree. But we won the Champions League within the period that gets you qualification into that tournament. And we qualified for Europe and had all our books in it.

30:55Say we didn't qualify. Say we didn't qualify rightly, and they said we want Chelsea in it because of the prestige of the club or whatever. I would say, no, no, that's... And we were going to take someone's place. I genuinely would think that was out of order. I can't understand how Nottingham Forest can think it's right to effectively thieve Crystal Palace's place in a competition. Is it a matter if we say it's right or not? It's the situation we're in. Saying, oh, we'll step back, that's not realistic in any situation. Didn't Brighton do it? Didn't Brighton actually say that they didn't want the place?

31:26Brighton did something, bearing in mind their rivals. Brighton actually did the right thing in this. Knowing that they had no chance of taking the place. They didn't try, they didn't start grassing.

31:40Rory, we're on the Club World Cup now. How are you seeing? How do you see that in terms of a competition? It's historic. It's historic. It's truly historic. And we've won it again. And it's brilliant. Again? Again. It was the first one, wasn't it? It was this iteration of it. But we've been Club World Champions in the past. It's been done. We did it in the Middle East fairly recently. Tuchel. But look, I've always rated the tournament. I genuinely have. I think it's a tournament that I have... You're smoking a bit. I genuinely have. I went to Japan in 2012. I genuinely have liked this tournament.

32:17The European team always wins it, though. Funnily enough, Rafael Benitez made a Pigs Ereview in Japan and Caribbean beat us. Yeah, no, that's more to do with Benitez. But overall, I think it's really significant what Chelsea did. And I think people will be sneery about it. But if you look at that dismantling of Paris Saint-Germain in the final, And if you look at Cole Palmer's performance, and then just the magnitude, it's New York City in front of the President of the United States beating Luis Enrique's European champions. It's massive. If it's that prestigious, which I'm only winding you up, I do think it's one of those trophies that most people outside of your club will just go, oh, it's no big deal.

32:54But when you do it yourself, it's a big thing. And this competition, who knows, in the future could become a big thing, but it is every four years. I just don't like the... When you played in it, did you want to take it seriously? I was going to stay when we lost it. Were you? But what I mean, because I think when we went, Liverpool had never won it before. So when you're playing for Liverpool, it's very difficult to do something that's never been done before. So I was gutted when we lost it in 2005, yeah? So I can understand from Chelsea's point of view, and this could become really prestigious in the future.

33:25But it's just the make-up of the tournament. I still can't get my head around it. It's still going to be fixed. You can't have the World Club Cup and not have the champions of England, Spain and Italy. That's just bizarre. They're the three biggest leagues probably in the world. But it's not about that. It's about being the champion of your continent over the past. So there will potentially be an Italian representative if an Italian team in the next four years wins a European Cup. That's just the metric to get into the tournament. That's what I'm saying. For me, that has to change. It doesn't feel right.

33:57A Champions League, I've been from four or five years ago, who's a different manager, completely different players. And then you say we won the... It's a completely different... That's interesting. I think it's more fair. It's more meritocratic. Just having, just for example, gifting the Premier League England a place in it because you're the champions of England. I don't think that's right. I think it's about being the best in the continent. And if no English club has been the best over the four previous years, then bad luck, you're not in. I think that's correct. And it means that if a Portuguese side wins it, an Italian side wins it, we've got a French side that's won it.

34:32They'll get in, and I think that's good. I think it's good. Maybe the name needs to change. The World Club Championship, you want the best teams in the world, isn't it? But is this not a way of suggesting that they are the best teams? No, they're not the best teams. Because they're the full European... You finished fourth or fifth in the Premier League. They've won the European Cup, which... With a different manager and a different set of players, it's not the same team. I'm not having a go at sort of... I think it is a big thing for Chelsea to win as a club. Most people outside might think, oh, it's no big deal.

35:02But to be the first people to win it, I think it's pretty special. But this is not about Chelsea. This is about Infantino and this make-up of the competition. If it is going to be a thing every four years, you can't have a competition with the three biggest leagues in the world who don't have their champions in it. That's just weird. It's just not right. They will be in it if they qualify for it by winning their European trophy. Over a four-year period? Yeah. You've got four years. If you're the best team in Italy, so Napoli, they've now got four years to get themselves to a level where they win a European Cup and then they will qualify for the club World Cup.

35:36I think it's the sort of very... Four years is a very long time in football, though, isn't it? Exactly. I wonder if FIFA will try and change the rules because at the moment UEFA said to them, you can only have a maximum of two clubs per country. Will FIFA now say, you know, we want to have Barcelona, we want to have Liverpool there? So that was a UEFA ruler? UEFA said, we will support this competition, but we only want a maximum of two clubs per country. So you can be, that's why you had the teams who qualified via the Champions League and then the rest went on UEFA ranking from Europe. And because we already had Manchester City and Chelsea in there, despite Liverpool and Arsenal having high UEFA rankings, they couldn't get there because they already had those two...

36:28So do you think the rules will change? I think there'll be lots of pressure from FIFA and Infantino to try and get that. It may not do it for the next time, but I reckon certainly in eight years' time that rule will change. Matt, do you see this competition as growing and becoming bigger? Because the only thing I'd worry about the competition is a little bit, because as Scholes, you had four years is such a long time. It just goes off your mind, doesn't it, the competition. It is the Champions League every year. You know, you're looking to it and it's so far away, the next competition. And I don't think anybody knows even where it is yet, do they, where it might be in four years' time?

37:03No, that hasn't been decided yet. I think it will, I think it will, one of these things in 20 years' time, perhaps, it will be seen as really big. But I think it will need to have those top teams who missed out this time for it to get to that, level and you look at the broadcaster interest for this tournament, there really wasn't any. DeZone came in eventually for a global deal but apart from that, the money wasn't there up front, it was a real struggle for FIFA to get that. Even the supporters interest Martin, a lot of the games, stadiums were empty. That might just be the place where it was in America I suppose as well.

37:43It's also partly because of where it was, like if that tournament was in Spain, Chelsea would have taken 20 ,000 fans to the final. I think that the tournament itself could be... I genuinely like... Your manager called it a joke halfway through. I listened to him. Do you know what that was referring to? That was about the storm. I think he was suggesting that the rule was ridiculous or playing it in a place where you can have storm warnings is ridiculous. I think that's what he was referring to there. And I'm sticking to that. And are you sticking with your manager? You thought he was going to get the bullet last season?

38:20Yeah, you just can't doubt him now. Off the back of winning the trophy in Poland, which whether or not people want to sneer at it, it's far better to win that than not win it. Qualifying for the Champions League via the top five, finishing fourth, and at the end doing it fairly easily, was also his remit at the beginning of the season. And then going to the States and winning that trophy, in the manner that we did. I think it's brilliant. I think it's a fantastic springboard for the season. And if you look at where Chelsea are now, obviously you see the work that's happened at Arsenal and Liverpool and you feel quite intimidated.

38:57But as an outside shout, I feel like we could do something pretty special this season. It's miraculous. What is something you're talking about winning the league? I'm talking about being in the conversation for winning the league. I appreciate it's a long shot. And the reason why it feels like such a long shot is partly because of the brilliance of Liverpool last year, but also because of the brilliance of Liverpool in the closed season. What do you think you need, Demruri? What we really need isn't going to happen, which is so frustrating. Centre-half? Not only a centre-half, but a 30-year-old centre-half.

39:29Somebody who's proven experience. Do you know the way that we signed Thiago Silva a decade and a half ago when we signed 31-year-old Michael Ballack? Somebody that comes in with that kind of experience, that kind of presence, that can just elevate the entire belief. We need to make that kind of signing, but that's just completely not in keeping with the strategy. When I look at Chelsea, I think what you did in that World Club Cup, because everyone wanted to win it. Real Madrid really wanted to win that. Paris Saint-Germain did. I think Man City, who would class as sort of the best teams in that competition, all really wanted to win it.

40:01So I do think it's a big thing, and it should give you belief and maybe build a connection between the manager and the supporters. I don't think that was really there a lot last season. Even later on in the season, they were booing some of the substitutions away at Fulham. there was only five or six games to go this season so I think it'll help do that I'm not sure it'll push Chelsea any closer to the title if they obviously don't bring those type of players in because I don't know how you feel but you know when Chelsea do business over the last sort of two or three years it feels like a lot of players change without anyone really lifting the level I know Cole Palmer's been amazing but you know like all your wingers feel like the same there's a lot of players there The needle hasn't moved Another way, a perfect example is Gittins comes in, Madaweki leaves.

40:46Yeah, where's the elevation? And I see that with a lot of positions, I feel, with Chelsea. I think that's true. And you're probably correct. I don't think we will win the league. But do you know what I think this summer has done? And also winning that silverware has done. I think it's, this time last year, you were talking about Chelsea in the same breath as the competing teams. At the time, we were maybe talking about Tottenham, Villa. We were putting Chelsea in that bracket that were competing for the top five, hoping to finish in. We've left them behind now. We've now moved the rung above, I think.

41:17I think that you now talk about Chelsea as competing with Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal. Whether or not we can actually do that. And the problem I've got, I think, is Liverpool are just going to... You know the points tally, the ultimate points tally that wins the Premier League title. I feel like this Liverpool team are capable of doing something ridiculous, like potentially 100 points or something like that. I don't think we can accrue that kind of number. but if it goes a little bit wrong for Liverpool, if Arsenal doesn't necessarily go their way, I feel like we're capable of hitting a respectable tally that if other people slip, if 84 or 85 wins you the league title, maybe we can do it.

41:53It just probably doesn't, does it? I still don't see Chelsea finishing above the other top three who've probably been going for titles. I think of what happened in Europe last season. Favourites were fourth. yeah yeah I'd definitely say that I just think the conference league last year I think Cole Palmer wasn't in the squad and maybe a couple of other players you'll have the Champions League now so you'll have to go for every game so I think it'll be interesting to see how that one goes

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43:22A Mochi moment from Sadie, who writes, I'm not crying, you're crying. This is what I said during my first appointment with my physician at Mochi, because I didn't have to convince him I needed a GLP-1. He understood, and I felt supported, not judged. I came for the weight loss and stayed for the empathy. Thanks, Sadie. I'm Myra Ameth, founder of Mochi Health. To find your Mochi moment, visit joinmochi.com. Sadie is a Mochi member compensated for her story.

43:55We've got Dan, debut West Ham fan. Thanks for joining us, Dan. and West Ham. I mean, they're normally really busy in the transfer market. Have they been as busy as you would like up until now? Not as busy as I would like and busy on some of the players that I wouldn't like us to see get busy on. It's a shambles. We just signed Callum Wilson and that's not gone down well. Oh, he was having a little pop at his win in the Conference League, wasn't he? He's had a pop at our Conference League. He's scored countless goals against us. If I was to look at it, He's probably cost us at one point Champions League, Europa League, you know, and now he's going to come to my club to cling on for one last little Premier League payday and then do nothing and then just fade away.

44:41Like I've seen so many other players. Check it out when he scores 20. He's never, like, the guy can't stay fit enough to score 20. He's not going to make 20 appearances, let alone score 20 goals. He's had hamstring, hamstring, hamstring, calf strains. There's just no way. Get off the fence. No way. It's a pay-as-you-go deal though, right? It is a pay-as-you. So he gets a basic wage of six grand and then 95 grand per appearance, which... Per stock? What? Per appearance. Per appearance. Well, if he comes on with two minutes to go. If he comes on with two minutes to go, he's getting 95 grand. Yeah.

45:11Wow. It's not working. The thing is, the problem I have with those deals, pay-as-you-play deals... I think you'll find him a bit fitter this year. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's the thing. You'll probably find him fitter, But he's lost a yard of pace. He's not the same player as he was. And them pay-as-you-play deals, I think, put pressure on the manager then to play him. Because if you're a player and you're earning a base wage of six grand, your lifestyle, that's not going to come touch the sides, is it? Six grand. So all of a sudden now, Graham Potter's going to feel this pressure from Wilson to get him on.

45:47Because if he goes week after week after week, he's earning six grand, he's going to be another... They're doing a deal, aren't they? Gaffa Galeon you know what I mean yeah exactly 20 % pot 20 % pot well Dan obviously you've been speaking to the producers of the show before you come on and you said to them you felt West Ham were the worst run club in the Premier League easy easy by far I tweeted this out and I had so many Man United and Wolves fans saying no you ain't got a clue we're the worst run club we're the worst run club you do not have a clue no one comes close so not only do we now have David Sullivan whose background is not in football.

46:24If you know what his background is and how he made his money, you know, you can Google it. But it's not football. I'll be able to get it though. And yeah, and he is now our director of football. He's choosing the transfers. He's choosing Callum Wilson, Carl Walker-Peters, John Victor who we're linked with. And we're a mess. And the big thing is, the sticking point is when no one can say anything to me about who's the worst run club. he sold our historic beautiful football ground Upton Park and took us to a rented soulless athletics bowl like that is it you've all obviously you've got the Emirates which is a purpose built football ground but the London Stadium I've just given up my season ticket so many fans have been going since the 70s have done it this was the final straw it's killed the soul of the club and now I see him doing the same thing again people hate us because we got rid of Moyes, the fans.

47:20Oh, how can you want Moyes out? We wanted to see our football club run in a more long-term, sustainable way. We got a director of football in, gave him one summer, and then got him out, and he's taking the reins again. So no one can chat to me on Moyes. So he's brought the director of football in, and there was obviously a problem between him and Moyes. I think he spent over 150 million last season. Supporters, even though David Moyes had been successful, one of the sort of different style of football. So they have tried the director of football. Who are you blaming for that not working? It's David Sullivan.

47:51Because we've got Julian Lopetegui, who was recommended by the same agent who recommended Callum Wilson and Carl Walker-Peters and all these other players because he likes to go out partying with David Sullivan's son. So that's not a way you go and pick a football manager. Steyton didn't want him. Steyton wanted Amaroum. And then we've got Lopetegui. So we can't blame Steyton. He's got players in, while we've also given players to Lopetegui. Lopetegui want to spend£40 million on Max Gilman. So it all comes down to David Sullivan. And, you know, when he leaves the club, it will be the best day.

48:23I'll take him to have bought Max Killman. That's the one he would have bought. He had a wolf, didn't he? That's what I'm saying. That was his signing. And he spent£40 million. Like, massively overpriced we've spent on him. And that's the problem. We've had an issue where we have, this is a Sullivan player. This is a Moyes player. This is a Stuyton player. Like, too many... What's a damn player? A damn player? I like Jacob Ramsey. I like Jacob Ramsey. Get him in. And if he can stay fit, injury concerns, sort that midfield out. It has to be fixed. So if I get some energy in the midfield, I'm happy.

48:55But I think Graham Potter's sort of being hung out to dry. He's got his work cut out for him. What about Paqueta? Where are you at that right now? Do you think the club should keep him, move him on? We have to keep him. I'm hearing links to Spurs. If we sell Paqueta to Spurs after sending him kudus for what I think is a lot cheaper than we should have, it's World War III in East London. I'm telling you that now. I do not want to see it. He's got all of that allegations behind him. He looks like a weight's lifted on his shoulder. This is going to be his season, and it needs to be in a West Ham shirt, certainly not a Spurs shirt or any other shirt.

49:28OK. Right, another team in Claret and Blue. Hannah, we're going to come to you. It feels a little bit quiet, Weston Villa this summer. The norm is always involved in transfers in and out. How are you feeling? Are you getting a little bit edgy, a little bit nervous? I'm not nervous. I think it's definitely quiet, and I think the closer we get to that deadline day, it's a little bit bizarre, I would say, how quiet it's been. I mean, the mention there of Jacob Ramsey, I think it's actually just been a summer of all our players being in the shot window, which I think is a recurring theme probably from last summer, since we sort of got good.

50:02It's sort of, yeah, who wants to buy a Villa player? It was Martinez at the end of the season because he was crying on the last game. It's Watkins going to Man United. It's Ramsey going to Newcastle or to West Ham. I don't understand all the Watkins stuff, because I thought when you saw John Durant in January, it was a bit like, OK, because there was that thing of who was playing. He was the main man, wasn't he? Yeah. So it almost feels like Watkins is available for the right price. That's the feeling I get from the outside looking in. I can't quite decide which source is right, because you've got some sources saying that there's murmurings that he wants to leave, player wants to go.

50:39Then the club doesn't want to sell, but would sell for the right price. and then there was a flat report of he's not going anywhere. So depending on which day you read the news, you're getting a different piece of information. I don't think we should sell Watkins for any price because at this stage in the window, realistically, who can Aston Villa buy? We've got issues with the amount of money we're going to be able to spend. We've got issues with the amount of wages that we can take on the books. So we're in a position where, realistically, if we were to sell Watkins, I don't know how much other clubs are valuing him for.

51:09I've seen£50 million. I think that's not enough. he's our main man, he's guaranteed goals you always have the sort of English player attacks, realistically we can't let him go I don't think, who else would we get in and this is a season where we're again at the point where we just keep having nearly seasons, we keep getting to the point where we nearly got to a FA Cup final, we nearly got to the latter stages of the Champions League we nearly got Champions League qualification through league position and missed out on goal difference. So we need to get to a point where this football club can keep its best players.

51:46We're not selling because we feel like we have to. And we're finally going to tip over that point where we're winning something or we're consistently in that top four, top five. Do you think you're capable of making that next step, whether sort of, as I said, you'd be in the Champions League last season or, you know, getting to the FA Cup final, making that step of winning something or doing something sort of big? Or do you think your time's sort of, you've just sort of missed the boat in the last maybe year or two, that was your real time? I don't want to say we've missed the boat. I think last season was prime time because I felt that we had that momentum and we were playing really well in the Champions League.

52:20We missed out, I would say in the end, quite narrowly to PSG. We beat them at home, but it just wasn't quite enough. And I think with Emery, we know that he's capable of winning and we sort of really trust in the process. I would say what's difficult this season, probably does come back to transfers, is that we've not added anything. So far, we're kind of, again, focusing a lot on buying really young players and either flipping them on a loan or on a loan-to-buy deal for PSR reasons, or I think we've bought a backup keeper. So we've not done any business, really, that you can look at it and get super excited for next season.

52:54But I think if we can keep that call, like Kamara signing a new contract was huge for us. I think that was one of the most important things we had to do this summer because he's so integral to this team. I think Tielemans last season proved that he was one of the best midfielders in the Premier League. If you've got Watkins still following, we've got Rodgers, which is an incredible talent. Whether we keep Ramsey, I'm not sure. And again, it's keeping our defence fit because over the winter period, I think we had 11 or 12 centre-back partnership and it killed us. I think it's a surprise how quiet you've been.

53:26It is. Because I think Villa have become a really good team. now we talk about Liverpool champions going spending money and going again I felt like look there's still time don't get me wrong in the last three weeks whatever is it at the transfer but you felt this is a time for Villa now to really kick maybe get close to a Chelsea or a Newcastle it just feels like it's the PSR stuff isn't it I think Villa are in that situation now I mean Mark can I bring you in on that I mean how close are Aston Villa to sort of you know are they being stunted now because of the PSR situation that they can't actually go and spend they need to bring money in because I think were they alongside Chelsea the teams who got fined by UEFA?

54:09Yes that's right so they breached the UEFA rules and they're certainly pretty close to the win with the Premier Leagues as well because that's going to stay on for another season the PSR we have seen like Chelsea have done previously that they have sold the women's team to a sister company so that will bring in a chunk of money that they can use. It's like a paper profit. It's not real money, but they can use that for their PSR company. Nobody was talking about Spirit of the Game before, wasn't he, to you? Within the rules. Within the rules. I think clubs are having to find ways to be innovative to get around these rules and then you come into question, you get into a whole debate of are they fit for purpose, is it fair?

54:53I mean, for a club like Villa, there might be other people here that agree. It just feels like you sort of get to the point of you're within that success, you're within building a really special team with a special manager and your wings are clipped. And I know that the rules are there for a purpose, but if you look at Villa have spent money, but you can't look at Villa spending and think they've gone crazy because we just haven't, we made a massive sale of John Duran. Obviously we were living off the Grealish money for a little while, but we're not living beyond our means, I don't think, so it does feel really frustrating from a fan's perspective, especially when you're seeing other clubs that obviously are creating more revenues so they're able to spend more, but I think that's Filler's challenge.

55:38We're trying to punch above our weight in the competition and I think we're just struggling. They'd have more money if they qualify for the Champions League, though. It's not only rules, it's like get an extra point and you'd be in the Champions League. Absolutely. And that was why it was a complete sucker punch at the end of the season. And haven't they used that as a justification to put your tick prices up again? Oh, don't get me started on the price. Just to get that one in again.

56:10Liam, we're going to come to you. Burnley fan, another teammate in Clareton Blue. It looks like to me, I think the last couple of days you signed a couple of players from Chelsea. I read in the last couple of days or so. I mean, are you confident you can make a better fist of it? Oh yeah, I mean, under Vincent Kompany, the general feeling towards the season from Burnley fans is, it's not very hopeful. And the last couple of days has been much more towards a bad direction. But the way how Scott Parker has set us up from last season is a complete contrast to how it was under Vincent Kompany. And what you'll see this year is much more similar to a traditional kind of Sean D 'Aish Burnley setup, which I think, compared to how he set up under Vincent Kompany, is much more suitable to try to stay up.

56:50last time we were trying to play a game which just wasn't effective for the players that we had and with Scott Parker everyone went through all the records last year everyone knows it, 33 games undefeated as it currently still is, 29 clean sheets and we didn't concede more than one goal in an entire league game the entire season, the first thing that's ever been done in English football history so I feel like we've got the foundation there that can be put into the Premier League that I think we stand more of a chance we can stick in games more similar to a Sean Dyche team that under Vincent Kompany just got blasted away most of the time.

57:25So the way that I see it is in the last couple of days we got a couple more signings to piece it all together and I just feel like we're probably still not going to stay up I'll be honest with you here but I think we stand much more of a better chance here compared to in my opinion to Leeds or Sunderland because I think we can actually set up to be fighting even if we're under the cosh. So that's kind of how I You're going to be playing against much better teams now though oh yeah much better teams I mean I know one thing people say we've lost James Trafford we've lost Josh Brownhill as well and Egan Riley I feel like we still have time to replace him and we've had some good movements last couple of days I think Dubravka from Newcastle I think that's a great piece of business Ugo Chukri from Chelsea as well I think that could be a decent replacement with Josh Brownhill you know the goalkeeper situation obviously he's gone to Man City he knows that club really well was that out of your hands was that just like buyout clause did the club just accept that and say he's gone because he was massive for his last season, wasn't he?

58:20As far as I'm concerned, we had a valuation for him, which I think was for like around£40 million and Newcastle was not really wanting to go towards. So I think we had bids of£25 million and they just couldn't reach to our valuation. I believe because of Man City, they had like a sell-on clause of like 20%. So that kind of lowered down that valuation, which then made it a bit more appealing to sell to them in the end. Because I think they had some backgrounds that Dubravka could be their replacement if he does go. And he was huge for us, James Trafford. But I feel like his campaign last time in the Premier League was a bit of a struggle.

58:55And I think he's better now. But for the next step up, I think for City, we'll find out it'll be a higher step up for him, I believe. Obviously, the last couple of years in the Premier League, the teams that have come up have found it really tough. It's almost felt to me like a 17-team Premier League. That's what it sort of felt like. So I think it's really important for the league, you've got the teams that come up, you'll make a good go of it and they're really competitive. I mean, as a supporter, do you actually prefer being in the championship? We've gone 33 games undefeated. So, absolutely.

59:28The kind of general... If you talk to most Burnley fans, and I feel like when you talk to other fans that's been in the championship and gone up to Premier League, if you're a match-going fan, I feel like the atmosphere, the feel to the games a lot better. I found from... I went to games much more often back in the day when a couple of years under Sean Dyche, that there was a buzz to it, there was a feel to it because it was all new and it was all fresh. It was like, maybe we may not get this chance again. And then near the end of the show on Dice here, it kind of petered off and you kind of lose that shine to it.

59:56And of course, it's easy to judge you and it's easy to say that it sucks when you're being beat week in, week out. So I think that's a fact of it as well. It was one of my favourite ever seasons as a West Ham fan when we was in the Championship as well. Yeah, I saw yourself, the Forest supporters saying that. Even some fans, when they came up to Premier League against Torres had a struggling two seasons, that it was a bit kind of drab going to games. And it could be sour grapes, but I feel like the atmosphere and the kind of assignment of it is a bit more unpredictable. The general feeling is definitely much more enjoyable in the Championship, absolutely.

1:00:30Martin, can I bring you in just before we finish? We haven't got the Brighton or the Wolves fan in. Can you give us a little update how it's going for them over the summer in terms of ins and outs and where the clubs are right now? Yeah, and Brighton, it's sort of things like the regeneration strategy sell general Pedro to Chelsea and they bought two teenage Greek strikers who most people never heard of before but spent a lot of money on them Costalas from Olympiacos I think was more than 30 million and he was the star of the UEFA Youth League last year and then Ximas who's come from Nuremberg.

1:01:06I don't think they'll be thrown into the first team football straight away but But when they're spending that sort of money, Brighton, their scouting network is so remarkable in recent years, you can just see them being perhaps the next big thing. So I think certainly Tony Bloom looks like he's pretty bullish. He was bullish. I saw something yesterday. About hearts. Certainly he thinks they'll finish second. Yeah, and I think he thinks they're going to win the Scottish League. Did they win that game? Yeah, they won two. Oh, did they? So, yeah, he's bullish. but he's, I think, 29 % of hearts. He thinks they're going to do big things in Scotland and, yeah, the way that Brighton's set up, they're making profits every year.

1:01:50The top half of the table finishes, it just looks like they're on this pathway, which is great for them. Wolves? Wolves, I think they're the favourites to get relegated apart from the three promoted teams. So I think they've got a lot to do, haven't they? I think Matthias Cunha is obviously going to be a big loss for them. They have got Jean Arias coming in, who's a Colombian winger from Fluminense in Brazil. But he was one of the stars of the Club World Cup. They got to the semi-finals. He was really, really eye-catching. So perhaps he could fill that gap. OK. I just want to finish now. Has any supporters got a hot take or something a bit wild that they think could happen, that they want to put it out there and make themselves look really clever?

1:02:33Rory? Come on, Rory. What have you got up your sleeve? I don't have one that's particularly hot, I don't think. My one would be West Ham go down. But I don't think that's that hot, is it? It's barely rationed. I feel like West Ham could quite easily go down. Graham Potter, I don't think he's a particularly good manager. I think people are very kind about what he's capable of doing. And if you think about him, the way that he approaches football, and then you think about your archetypal West Ham fan, West Ham the club, their icons, They love Bobby Moore, they love Paolo Di Canio. Potter's so uninspiring to that kind of person.

1:03:12So I could see West Ham going down for sure. I can't judge him off Chelsea. If you judge him off Chelsea... He's a good Brighton manager. You're the one who convinced him you're going down. No, I never said anything about... I've done a child as old man. We've been run poorly for years and we haven't gone down. This is the problem. I'm just saying. I feel like that's unsustainable though. If it got Sullivan out, I'd go down. But I wouldn't want to do a Leeds or a Forest where I'm... Sorry. I've got one though Thomas Frank will be the first manager sack I wish Flav was in I'd love that to be true I'll speak with my heart and say Jokeres will be top goal scorer in the Premier League That's complete hope, dreams But let's back him I'm going to say he's at the title That's my heart I don't know, they look so good If he's top goal scorer and you don't win the league 2, 3, 4 and 5 they're all going to be Liverpool players, the top scorers.

1:04:06That's my issue. Yeah, let's say yes. Top scorers, I don't believe that at all, but let's say yes, a hot take. During a year's time, you'll be like, oh, that's Simon. He knows what he's talking about. Oh, Scores, I should have asked you before. We were talking about Liverpool-Arsenal. Who are you going for for the league? Can't look past Liverpool, I don't think. I still think nearly a centre-half. Oh, yeah. If one of them get injured, it could be an issue. I think this will be the first season I've ever predicted Liverpool to win the league. I think I've always been City, to be honest, with obviously Guardiola.

1:04:33yeah I'm going to go Liverpool is that a hot tea? no cold tea cold tea ok no problem listen that is the end of the Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet make sure you join us for next time

1:05:15We'll be right back.

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