Jill Scott talks winning the Euros with Lionesses, I'm a Celebrity... & becoming a coach | The Overlap

0:00Did someone try to sneak some food or sneak some things in? Yeah. Who was that? Well, so me, Matt Hancock and Sue won the trip to the beach. And, yeah, so there was, like, a big barbecue, like, steak, sausages and everything. So I put a steak in my hat, wrapped up in my hat and put my hat on. Matt had two sausages up his sleeves. Don't think anybody ate them. Literally, there was 30 players and I was the worst player. I remember I never got selected again for four years. How did you deal with that rejection at the time? If you took the ball past their precious son, it'd be like, get that girl, like, hurt them and all this.

0:37So I'd come off the pitch, like, crying. Why has it been so difficult just to even gain acceptance, let alone any type of equality? Were there points where you felt like, it's easy for me to give in, it's easy for me to not do this? I'm going to be doing a little bit of coaching at Man City. I think I got blew up a bit as if I'm going to be Pep's assistant. That's what I'm treating. I remember going into that tournament and I was nervous. There was constantly that kind of question mark over us, like, can I still do it? We've never had a wedding date announcement on the overlap. Are you going to give us one?

1:12Well, we're going to see an England legend and the Queen of the Jungle. Yes, Jill Scott. She's a bubbly character, great personality, knowledgeable. Jill will have grown up in a time whereby she probably wouldn't have been welcome to play football, let alone well-funded, let alone good facilities. So, you know, I'm very aware of sort of the fight and the struggles that women have had in this country to gain equality. You know, to be gay in women's football is the norm, and as it should be, whereas Whereas in men's football we are struggling like mad to create an environment where people feel comfortable and they can live their normal lives transparently without fear of criticism, without fear of being mocked.

2:07And that's why we say we're trying to create an inclusive game in men's football but the reality of it is we've got already women's football that do that. There is an example sitting right next to us and yet we still struggle in some ways to be able, in every way really, to make people feel comfortable about their sexuality. And for Jill, obviously people know about the jungle, people know about the fact she's done media work, she's going into coaching, but she's also acquired, with her partner Shelley, a coffee shop in Manchester called Box2Box, and we think that Phil Foden's been there, De Bruyne.

2:40I'm probably the worst football player ever to set foot in this coffee shop. Right, let's go. Box2Box. decaf, shot, syrups. How are we? Hello. Welcome to Boxmore. Are they hoodies? I'm going to wear one. What size are you extra small men? LAUGHTER I've never seen anyone make a coffee in a shop where they've weighed the actual coffee before. There we go, we're on. This is it. This is the one.

3:14So, to get a good smell, we're starting to, like, cup your hand Just be careful. We couldn't just hold on anything. Let's go. This is the test now, isn't it? I'm going to go for it. Go for it. Does it taste different? Yeah. It feels more authentic and original. Do you think if we did three cups of coffee and did them differently, you'd be able to tell the difference between each? Yeah, I think so. That would be good, actually. Yeah. OK, we'll try it. Right, here we go. Come on. So you have got to demonstrate whether you are really knowledgeable about coffee or not. So you've got three coffees there.

3:50These look lovely, don't they? They look absolutely fantastic. And you've got to tell us which one each is. OK.

3:58I can't pull a face because it's like our coffee, but I would never have that. And I think it's just a black Americano, is it? Yeah. But that's because you're young. When you get a little bit older, your taste buds change. You know that, don't you? Yeah. But would you just have black americano or a bit of milk? There was a point where I had black americano. That is nice. I think you'll like that, though. I really like it. You like it? Yeah, I've done something. I had one before. I had my milk. I really like that. Yeah. Cheers. This looks more like my kind of thing. It's like a cream cake. I don't know if that's a mocha or a cappuccino.

4:35Ooh. Is that a cappuccino? No. No, it is. I don't want it to win, but, yeah, it's a cappuccino. You can't lie. I don't want it to win, so I'm just going to lie. It's a cappuccino. Yeah, that's nice. That Americano's amazing, by the way. God, I'm going to be like this later. Right, let's see what this is. Right. This is my drink, what I usually get. It's got to be a flat white, yeah? Yes. Yes, three out of three. That would have been bad if I hadn't have got it, though. No, I should have made a blindfold, shouldn't I? You can have that one. Don't waste it. Thanks for that. There you go. Jill Scott knows a coffee.

5:13Sometimes. Jill Scoffy? That should be the name of the shop. My God, we've just changed the world. Cheers. Cheers. Football doesn't open its arms out to women in the north-east of England or any part of England when you were growing up. No. How tough was that? It was tough. Like, I got bullied quite a lot. Were the points where you felt like, it's easy for me to give in, it's easy for me to not do this?

5:52Right, Jill talks about striding for perfection. So, obviously you get the name of the shop, why it's Box2Box. I get that. Yeah, because midfielders running. And you were a running midfielder, weren't you? Yeah, I was. You would run Box2Box. I couldn't really play football, I just had a good engine. I would work hard. And then, obviously, there's a saying, striving for perfection. but I always think that you can never really reach perfection so I do like that scene in general and then with it being box to box I was like instead of striving let's have striding So you're always trying to get there Yeah but I don't know if you can ever be perfect do you think you can?

6:26Did you ever play with any players where you were like they're perfect? Do you know you said David Beckham was your fit when he kicked a football it was a little bit like perfection Yeah but no one's perfect Yeah and that's why I like that and then one day I was like striding because it's box to box. You are incredibly driven, aren't you? Yeah, I am driven, yeah. I think from a very young age, like, I think when you talk about when I first started playing football, everything was kind of against you because there wasn't girls playing football and stuff like that. But I was quite a stubborn kid and if I wanted to do something, I'd, like, give it my all.

7:01So, yeah, I am driven. Does that come from your upbringing, your parents, your family? I think so. Like, my mum has a lot of conversations with us where she's like, I wish I did more with you when you were younger, like, you know, on a weekend, take you to the fair or the park. She was like, but you always just wanted to be playing football. And some days, like, because there was, like, three, four of us, I'd just have to get myself to football. And then sometimes she didn't even know that I'd been to football. But when I got home, I didn't have to talk about it. I didn't have to say I'd played well or I hadn't.

7:30And I said to her without knowing, she was probably the best thing for us because I became quite independent from a young age, which I think helped us when I got older. And then also, like, I never had them home stresses. You know, some kids are under pressure, aren't they? Like, how did you play today? You should have done that, you should have done that. And my coach has always said as I got older, I had, like, this real natural ability for, like, switching on at a certain point. So I was always the one in the changing rooms, like, laughing, messing around. But as soon as we crossed that white line, I was just, like, a different person.

8:01And it got us in trouble when I was younger because they said that you've got to be careful not to have that impact on the players around you because you might be able to do that, but they might not be able to. I could never laugh before a game. Could you not? No. Can you tell? Before game, during, after. I've only been joking. You're laughing now, though. But were you really serious? Yeah, because I just didn't think that football was... I don't get it now when I see players laughing in the tunnel or laughing on the pitch. And I don't get it because I never thought anything was funny about going out there with the fear of maybe making a mistake or giving a goal away.

8:37I suppose that's a defensive mentality as well. But I always felt it was a bit of a pressure and I didn't feel relieved until the end of the game and it was over and we'd won. Yeah, but I get what you mean. Like, in the tunnel, I never liked when players went out before and they'd be, like, chatting to the mate, you know, on the opposition team. I hated all that. And I never used to go out on the pitch before the game and I'd be like, I'll just stay in the changing room. And when I was with my team, I felt like I could have a laugh and stuff like that. But as soon as we walked out in that tunnel, no, I was just like, I'm doing everything to win today.

9:08And going back to your mum, did she send you a message or did she say something after the Euro 2020 final? No, so I don't know if that comes from everyone says to us who was the first person you messaged after the final. It was my first coach I had at Everton, Mo Marley, who coached us at England. And she was just a fantastic person, that kind of... When the game wasn't professional, she did everything voluntarily. heavily and as soon as we finished the game I didn't want to go on my phone I didn't want to take videos I just wanted to take it all in but I just sent her a message and said I think I sent a selfie with my medal and was like without you this wouldn't have happened and yeah because she coached so many of them players as well so and she was the only person I wanted to message you grounded aren't you yeah yeah that's also a good name for a coffee shop isn't it I think You're in brand mode today.

10:00Actually, we should open the brand agency. When I'm in the shop, I'm just in it. You're ground, aren't you? I am. It's really hard to explain. I feel like, especially last year, I had so many great things happen, but I'm just like little Jill who loved playing football and then got bigger. No, I'm definitely not. I was never that big. I was always this big. But, yeah, I'm in so many moments where I'm like, I have, like, imposter syndrome probably, like, 80 % of my life. You do? Yeah. all the time. Genuinely? Yeah, honestly. Like, when we were in Qatar and I'm sat round there and I'm like, there's you, Roy Keane, and I'm just with everyone and I'm like, right, Jill, just fake it, like, yeah.

10:40No. I know, I do, I just think like that, but I also think... Is that a confidence thing or is that just you thinking that... I don't know, I don't know. I think it's because it's people that you've, like, grown up watching on the TV and stuff like that and then, like, your life changes so that you're in them positions, but... Do you know you're more famous than us? No, I'm definitely not. You are? No, I think there's kind of been times over the years where you kind of see people that aren't like that. And I just think it's like a really like ugly trait sometimes. So I think it's probably not being grounded.

11:11Well, yeah, just like probably getting ahead of themselves and stuff like that. I don't like it. I think you can always just be yourself and treat people nice. It doesn't take much, does it? What is it that brings you back down to earth in your mind? Because I agree with you. and obviously sometimes you win a trophy or you win, obviously, and I'm a celebrity, you could get carried away, couldn't you? Yeah. It does go back to probably how I was as a footballer. I always had to work for everything. So I was never that player when I was younger who was the star player. You know, when you're like 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, I was never the one scoring all the goals and had the best boots.

11:45And I always had to work for everything. So I think I've seen some of them players kind of get older and they really struggled when they didn't get selected and stuff like that. I was kind of used to it. So I think with my life, when I've come out of football, I've still got that mentality of I've got to work really hard, like don't take anything for granted. So, yeah, I do think it probably reflects how I was as a player. How did growing up in Sunderland impact the way in which you are? I think Sunderland, from a young age, I think you have to like football. It's weird. Like Sunderland v Newcastle was like...

12:18Our household was split, so my brother's Newcastle, I'm Sunderland. How's that happen? Because my dad's side of the family was Newcastle and my mum's from Sunderland. So my dad tried to kind of force us to support Newcastle. And then when I went to school, I just got bullied so much. I was like, I'm supporting Sunderland. But he really stuck with it. So, yeah, football was just in us, like, from being 7, 8, 9. I had a season ticket for Sunderland. It was, like, the biggest part ever, going to watch Sunderland men on a Saturday and then having my game on a Sunday. So, yeah, and I do think the players from there, you've got a lot from the North East, Jordan Nobbs, Lucy Bronze, Carly Telford, Demi Stokes, Beth Mead, who all went on to play for England.

12:57And I do think if you look at all them players, there's like a really big work ethic. So I don't think that's by chance. I just think that you always had a train and you couldn't have the gloves and the hats on. And it'd be like, you're from Sunderland, like toughen up. And I think it was just instilled in you from a young age, really. And in terms of your upbringing, football doesn't open its arms out to women in the north-east of England or any part of England when you were growing up. No. How tough was that in a sort of masculine environment in the north-east of England to be, you know, a young girl playing football at that time?

13:29Yeah, it was tough. Like, I got bullied quite a lot, really. I even remember my first day at senior school. This lad, he was shouting at us, like, you must be a boy cos you play football. And I just went to chase after him and his friend tripped us up and I smashed my elbow into, like, three pieces on, like, my first day at school. So when I look back, them moments, like, were really tough. and I found it really hard to open up and see how I was feeling because especially in the early years of my career, we were taught, like, don't ever show that you're disappointed and, like, be strong and all this.

14:02And I think as I got older, I realised that the strongest people were the ones that showed emotion and were saying, look, I'm getting bullied, I'm struggling. But, yeah, it was really tough. But then moments where I picked my football boots up and I was training, I was in the back lanes, like, playing football. I was just so happy that they kind of overrode all them other things. And you were playing with the boys at that time, weren't you? Yeah, yeah. And to be honest, the boys I was playing with, they were lovely, like, we were good friends. And a lot of my friends now are male, because I think I played football with them a lot and we just had this kind of understanding.

14:38In the early, early days, it was probably the parents also, who, if you took the ball past their precious son, then they'd, like, shout things. And I was only eight or nine and it'd be like, get that girl hurt there and all this. I'd come off the pitch crying. I bumped into one of my old coaches last week and he said, I remember taking you off the pitch so many times because I was just crying. But I see I always went back because I couldn't have imagined life without football. How did you get through those early years playing at the age of eight and nine when you're being bullied, you're being kicked, you're being abused off parents on the touchline?

15:13Were there points where you felt like, it's easy for me to give in? it's easy for me to not do this never i don't think that ever crossed my mind because i just loved it so much so when i got back from them games i was just then back in the back lanes with my friends kicking the ball about and i probably just forgot about it which i think at an early age i was building up resilience without even knowing it i never remember thinking oh i want to stop doing this it was almost like there was never that decision to play football i felt like it was just in us age five i went to school for the first year and seen boys playing football and I was like, I want to do that, and from that day on, that was all I wanted to do.

15:49Do you feel proud that your generation have unlocked the door and you've suffered in every single way that you did, but actually you've made it better for now, obviously the upcoming generations with everything that you've done? Do you feel it was all worth it? Yeah, 100%. I think the biggest thing now, like, standing here, is knowing that, like, another young girl who's maybe five or six won't have to go through them early years of the journey. She can just get her first football boots, get her strip. She can go to football. She can be happy. She's not going to get any of that. She can speak proudly.

16:21If someone says to our girls, can't play football, she's got fighting talk. Like, well, did you see them win the Euros? And that's honestly what makes us, like, so happy. And I'd go through it all again to make it better for the next generation, because I think... I felt like I had kind of the tools and the resilience as the years went on to get through it. And I'd take that for them not to have to go through it. So, yeah, I'm really proud of, like, my generation, but also there's a whole other generation before that who taught me that as well. So, yeah, that's what makes us smile the most, definitely.

16:53Good. We're going to have, Jill... Some cake. Honestly, so which one are you having? Could you eat a full one of them? Or should we go half and half? I could, but I could have half of the Kinder one. Yeah. I mean, how good do they look? So you want one and a half, so I get half? I'll have one and a half. This is mine, isn't it? I'll just have a bite. No. I don't get like this for nothing. I'll, yeah. And I'll have half of that with you. OK. Let's sit down and we'll get a knife. Yeah, cool. I remember going into that tournament and I was nervous. There was constantly that kind of question mark over us, like, can I still do it?

17:32Why has it been so difficult just to even gain acceptance, let alone any type of equality?

17:42Hi everyone, I hope you're enjoying this episode. This is just a quick thank you to Skybet, our partners, for making this show happen. It's something I've wanted to do for a long, long time. Please subscribe, there's loads more episodes coming up and I hope you're enjoying it.

18:04Right, Jill, before we start talking a little bit more about your football career, Who's going to cut the cakes? I've never done it before, you will have. Let's do it. Right, here we go. This is a Kinder Blondie and then that's a Lotus one. But I can never eat a full one. Only all halves with you. Oh, my God. I know. That is lovely, to be fair. It's unbelievable. Should we just show footage of you eating cake for an hour? Please. Right, so I have a little understanding of how difficult it would be for a woman to succeed in sport because of my sister and my mum being kicked out of a football team in the 70s, the boys football team and making the local news, my sister fighting for funding and money and facilities all the way through her netball career.

18:55Why has it been so difficult just to even gain acceptance, let alone any type of equality in it? Yeah, I've asked myself this question a lot recently, especially since you talk about the government, obviously, saying that girls can play football the same amount of time in PE as boys. And when I think about it, I'm like, when did that ever become a thing that they couldn't? Like, when did someone decide that football was for boys? So I struggle with that question sometimes because for me, it's like, if a kid likes doing sports, really, it doesn't matter if they're male or female, but there's been so many battles along the way.

19:30When you speak about netball, from a footballer's point of view, I remember 2009, we had the Euros final, which was exactly the same as the one we just had. But obviously it's going back, like, how many years is that? Yeah, 13 years or something. And it's like, I remember at that time we were playing Germany in this final, they were full-time professionals. And I think we didn't even, like, get paid for going away or anything. People were teachers, there were lecturers about to go and play in that final. So we knew that there was kind of like a big gap. And then that was when they introduced central contracts, which meant that England players, I think it was£16 ,000, were received per year, which meant that you could...

20:08What, in 2009? Yeah, 2009, which meant that you could just reduce your working hours, but we still weren't full-time professionals, so I turned full-time when I was 26. Just talk to us a little bit about your experience at Everton, what you had to go through personally, just to even get to training, let alone play matches. Yeah, in them early years, that was probably what the difficult part was. I was coaching up in Sunderland, and then we used to get the last slot, 8 till 10. after all the boys academy and everything so i used to travel two and a half hours maybe three hours in traffic after coaching train eight till ten and then head all the way back up get back one two o 'clock in the morning and then have coaching again so we were down there about two times in the week and then down for games but even that when i think about it i used to drive three hours on a sunday this was playing like the equivalent of premier league football drive myself three hours get out the car warm up and play a game like that would just be unheard of now I would never do three hours driving even three days before a game.

21:06How did your game develop when you moved from Everton, which was obviously a real struggle for you just to get there, to obviously become someone who was far more professional at Manchester City? Yeah, I remember turning up at Manchester City and I kept saying, they'll wash our kit and I'm getting my breakfast this morning. I'd ring my mum and we'd get lunch after and it's a hot lunch, it's not a packed lunch. And I remember getting told by the manager, like, Jill stop saying this in interviews because you need to sound like you deserve it and it's equal but yeah probably embarrassing the rest of the game yeah but I was just like I couldn't believe I couldn't believe I was going into football and this was my job but they're the basics of being a professional football but it's incredible yeah it was for the men's side yeah for us it wasn't and I was going into this amazing facility and I just couldn't believe it honestly I look back at them first two years and I just loved everything about life, everything.

22:01I was like, I actually play football full time. But yeah, in terms of my own game, my technical side of my game came on so much in that time. I'd always been known as the one that worked hard, the engine room. But then I felt like I could be, look, I can play a little bit as well. And on your England career, you played under, I think, Hope Powell. Yeah. Mark Samson. You might know one of them. Phil Neville and then obviously latterly through Serena. How was that journey? Just talk to us about the different coaches and sort of how each of them impacted you. Yeah, all very different, to be honest.

22:34Careful on the third one. Yeah, I know, I know, I'm not joking. Hope Powell, very strict, and I was very young when I made my debut. I think I was like 18, 19, so I was kind of a little bit scared of Hope, and she kind of didn't soften the blow when you were coming in. She was just like, right, this is how it's going to be. But I will say one thing. She was very consistent with her behaviours. So if she was going to be hard on you, she was going to be hard on you kind of that whole time. Did you like that as a player, being told what to instruct you at the time? Because I liked it when I obviously played under a manager who was quite strict with us and told us what he wanted.

23:09I liked the consistency. I don't like managers where you don't know how they're going to be with you from one day to the next. So I did like the consistency and the behaviour, definitely. And then Mark Sampson probably... I felt like we had a respectful relationship in terms of he respected what I did on the pitch, I knew what he wanted. We probably didn't have that kind of... You know, sometimes you can sit, have a coffee, chat and stuff like that. I felt like it was just a very professional, this is kind of what I want from you, and I felt like I'd try to deliver that. Phil was very different because I feel like with Phil, he's probably one of the only managers that really understood and kind of got me as a player.

23:50so I was a little bit older and I felt like he managed us so well. But I always remember Phil was one of the first managers that he came out and it's not that I felt like I wanted this or needed it, but he came out and he did an article and just said really nice things and really made us feel like I was kind of wanted and that he thought I was a good player. And throughout my career, I was like, I don't need that. I was really uncomfortable with praise. If someone was like, oh, you're doing well, I'd be like, yeah, yeah, it's down to the other players and all this. But when he came out and actually did that, I feel like 2019 was my best tournament.

24:27And I feel like he got another 20%, 30 % out of us just by kind of feeling like I was important to the team. So, yeah, I really did. I know I have to say it because I'm sat with you, but as a manager, I did really like Phil. And there was times even where I would have fitness testing and he'd go to me and Kaz, he'd be like, I know you can run, you're like 32, 33 now. I don't want you to do fitness testing and then I have to miss two days training. I need you on the grass. I just felt like he got it. So, yeah, he was a really good manager. And then, obviously, Serena. I speak about Serena, that she kind of...

25:03You could sit and have a coffee with her, chat about family. But then she also had that when I crossed the white line, I had a bit of fear, like I had to perform, I had to do well. Why did you get over the line eventually? What was the difference? It was such a driven group of players. I remember going into that tournament and I was nervous. I think people think when you get older, you get less nervous, but I felt more pressure because I was like, people are going to expect you to perform. You're getting a bit older. Are you still at that level? There was constantly that kind of question mark over us, like, can I still do it?

25:37But you know what? The girls were just like, they're so humble and so grounded, all of them. the younger players like the talent is out of this world but they don't even realize it themselves and i think from game to game they just looked like they were enjoying it they were winning and i felt like i didn't even have to see anything because i was like just don't see anything everything's going well and you don't want to add pressure on them because going into that final i could have been like girls this is the biggest game about you know as an older player biggest game of our lives got the whole nation behind us like we can change women's football for the better but it was just like another game.

26:13We were on the bus, we were going down Wembley and we could see all the crowds. The girls were like, oh, look at her with the face paint. Look, she's got Beth Meade's shirt on. And then they just went on the pitch and just performed and, yeah, it was crazy. One of the most impressive things of the final was the last few minutes of that game where you played, basically, they kept the ball in the corner. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In terms of obviously managing and controlling the game was unbelievable. She had a plan for everything, Serena. I think that was one thing I realised. Even when you speak about that moment in the final, I remember coming on and I was quite happy they were keeping it in the corner because I was just kind of instructing behind.

26:50But I remember even watching that and it was Chloe, Lucy, Alessia, Ella Toon. And it was just like watching our five-a-side games at the end of every session. You were coached to do that then, weren't you? Well, I just think the players just kind of, in their moments, were sent over them players who would have been the best kind of five-a-side players you know, fast feet, keeping the ball. And I was just watching, thinking, this is incredible. But even that final, we played Germany in the Arnold Clark Cup in February. And I think it was a home tournament, so we kind of selected the nations. And I think by beating Germany, we then had the belief to beat them.

27:27Obviously, they didn't know we were going to get them in the final, but probably predicted it could go that way. What is your low moment? What is the moment where you feel in your life you were at your lowest? Literally, there was 30 players and I was the worst player. I remember I never got selected again for four years. How did you deal with that rejection at the time?

28:01Right, Jill, we have a section on the overlap called failure is a bruise, not a tattoo. Yeah. Meaning that obviously you hit lows, but they're never permanent, you come out of them. Mine was, it was sent to me actually after I lost my job in Valencia, which was a pretty poor performance from me. Yeah. What is your low moment? What is the moment where you feel in your life you were at your lowest, whereby it was very difficult for you to come out of it? And how did you come out of it? There was a lot of losses along the way, definitely more than successes. But I think probably when you ask us that question, I go back to when I was 14, 15, I got picked for England under-16s for the first time.

28:37And I went on this camp and I thought, I'm doing well at Sunderland and everything. And I got on that camp, Kaz Carney was there, Eniola Olugo, and literally there was 30 players and I was the worst player. I just felt like I was just nowhere near as good as all these players. And I remember I never got selected again for four years. And in them four years, I remember Steph Houghton, Carly Telford, I was playing at Sunderland with them. And they'd turn up and they'd be like, did you get picked for the camp this week? And it was like a punch in the face. They weren't saying it nastily. I think they really wanted us to get selected.

29:10But it was like a punch in the face every time. And I had a few tears behind closed doors. And I think it was a really important part of my career because it was like you can either give up on that England dream or keep going. And I got picked again when I was 18 for the under-19s and then I made my senior debut about a year later. So I think there's a lesson in there that players can develop at different times. I wasn't ready at that point but instead of going oh they're just not picking us I knew I had work to do put it in and then obviously got to make my England debut so I'd say that that did leave a bruise but then without that I probably wouldn't have gone on after career that I had It's interesting that because sport is cruel and rejection is there for everybody in sport not being picked not being picked in a game not being picked for a squad how did you deal with that rejection at the time that you were feeling every time you didn't get picked just get on with it or did you have anybody that you talked to?

30:03I did struggle but I had a coach actually called Alan Snowden who he looked after kind of the reserves at Sunderland and I remember he used to just tell us to keep going. He never said like, he never kind of fed us a fake story. He was just like sport is going to be tough, you need to keep working hard. He wasn't like, oh you're amazing, they should be picking you and all this. And I think that also taught us as my career went on, surround yourself with the people that are going to be honest with you as well and I've got some good friends, Jennifer Beatty's one of them, and she's not one of them where I say something and she'll just agree with us, she'll disagree and she'll challenge.

30:39And I think sometimes them people are the best people for you who will just be truthful. I'm going to be doing a little bit of coaching at Man City. I think I got blew up a bit as if I'm going to be Pep's assistant. I was speaking to Shelley before and she said that she was waiting for a date off you. We've never had a wedding date announcement on the Oval app. Are you going to give us one?

31:12Looking at the post football career, you've obviously got the coffee shop. Yeah. You've obviously gone into the jungle, which was obviously something of a transformational experience for you in some ways. Also you've got this very serious coaching career. I say serious because being on television, I'm on television, it's very different than coaching football players, isn't it? You know, the detail and the time and the pressure that you put on yourself. How are you going to manage these two very conflicting sort of careers, which is obviously one is in entertainment and one is a professional sports coach.

31:43Where are you going to settle? Yeah, I think the coaching is a big passion of mine. I love coaching. I even did a grassroots session the other day and I had little six-year-olds checking the shoulder before receiving the ball. And I just get a real buzz out of helping people and obviously the opportunity, I'm going to be doing a little bit of coaching at Man City, I think it got blew up a bit as if I'm going to be Pep's assistant. I was reading that a few weeks ago and it was like, you know, Jill Scott takes the job at City as a coach. I'm thinking, oh, right, OK, so forget the punditry, forget the other stuff, you're going to be literally every day.

32:15No, I think that's the media world, isn't it, that we're living. It's going to be more like Girls Boys Academy doing a little bit. But I think in terms of the detail that Man City provide, it's kind of so interesting for me. it opened up this whole new world of football, and that was at the age of 26. So, yeah, I'm excited about that. I really am. Like, I'm obsessed with, like, passing drills, and I'm going to sound so sad, but sometimes I'll sit on a night, even, like, a Friday night, watching an old Bayern Munich passing drill on YouTube and, yeah, just looking at bits of detail. Oh, you definitely need to be a coach there.

32:47I do, I love it. And I'll have a cup of tea, you know, while Friday night. But I just like little ideas and stuff like that. So I know that's my passion, but I'm just not ready yet to go into a full schedule of football, football, football. Yeah, managing a team, basically. Yeah, well, I haven't had an offer, but I've put myself out there. Do you watch the Manchester City first team? What do you watch? The Manchester City women's team train? Do you watch the Manchester City first team train? Have you watched any of your pep sessions? Any influences that you have? So, a couple of times I did watch a couple of pep sessions.

33:20I took my nephews along to watch a session. and obviously the academy stuff, I think for the first... I haven't even started yet, but the first few weeks, I'll just be observing and seeing how they work. But I think with Pep, it's really hard to, like, learn from him because he's almost like a genius in his own head. So sometimes you can watch a coach who's very structured and whatever else. I think he's very on emotional intelligence. We'll see a session going one way and then change it. Do you know what I mean? So there's some coaches you can follow and then some that I think they're just a genius in their own mind and I see Pep as that.

33:55But in terms of being at the academy, I think there's a lot of coaches with good detail. There's a guy who, the assistant of Pep, Rodolfo, who we actually had him coach us at the women's team and I hung on every word he said, the detail. I think he used to work at Barcelona and teams like that and, yeah, just little bits of detail he would give just on, like, receiving in the pockets and stuff like that. So, yeah, I'm excited, really. just to, I'm just going to go in there and just ask as many questions as I can because I see it as when you embark on your football career, you've got a lot to learn.

34:28I'm nowhere near a finished article of a coach, but I know I'll work hard to try and get better. Why the jungle? Because I mean, I suppose in some ways it's easy why, but there is a risk with that, isn't it? You don't know how they're going to edit you, you don't know how you're going to come across, you don't know how you're going to like it, whether you're going to like it or not, what the other people who are in there are going to be like with you. All those things crossed your mind before you went in? No, it didn't, you know. Am I a over-thinker? No, but, yeah, I'm very much someone that's just, like, in the moment.

34:53So I remember being quite busy. And then I was like, oh, next week I'll go in the jungle. What happened? What was the first call? It was an e-mail, and I thought it was a hoax, to be honest. It was like, hi, Jill, this is I'm a Celebrity, get me out of here. And then I think I passed it on to my agent, and they were like, well, we've replied, we'll see what they say. And I still feel at that time there was probably a pool of about 30 people, then you had to have an interview. and even then it was a few weeks before I heard, so I do think it's a bit of a process. Who were your great friends in there?

35:22Er, Owen. I got on really well with Owen. But we just spoke about football all the time, literally. He's a mad Leicester fan and would be making up, like, my best 11 versus his best 11. We even did our best 11, like, England players of all time, me, Babatunde, him. I think you did make right back, actually. Thanks, Rob. I don't think the air did, but you did. You made right back. And you know what? I got on well with Chris Moyles as well i don't think they really showed that but he was really caring he would look after us check i was okay and yeah were there any awkward moments for you in there that you felt i don't like this no not not really i hated when you got back and you'd been on a challenge and you're covered in cockroaches and awful and you just stink like you actually stink and it's nine o 'clock at night and you've got to get a cold shower and you're thinking oh i wish i could just have a hot shower right now but it's mad because the things that you probably seem to be complaining about hunger was a big thing because you know as sports people we eat very healthy but i'd have like say when i was playing like 3 000 calories a day because i'd lose weight yeah because i'd lose weight quite quickly and because my job was always to run i was always burning energy so i think we went down to about eight nine hundred calories of rice and beans and that was difficult you just felt so depleted of energy so there's no there is this thing that like all the feeding them pizzas off there and all that never happens i thought that when i went in but it definitely doesn't happen did someone try to sneak some food or sneak some things in yeah who was that well so me matt hancock and sue won the trip to the beach and yeah so there was like a big barbecue like steak sausages and everything and i felt so bad that i was there because owen was so hungry that was it you snuck some of the food back in yeah so i put a steak in my hat wrapped up in my hat and put my hat on matt had a two sausages up his sleeves um don't think anybody ate them and then and then we kind of got back into camp and just try to distribute this food like really slightly i remember there was some sourdough bread i ripped it into two wrapped it in two bits of tissue and shoved it down my bikini top it's the first time my bikini top had been full and i got back and everyone was like so you give own sourdough bread from your big i was like look he would have ate a sausage or anything from anywhere he was that hungry but when i think back to some of the moments i'm like there was a moment where i'm washing the dishes with boy george i always remember this moment matt hancock's on the bike behind us because that provides the water for the dishes with chris moyles and i'm going matt pedal quicker the water's not coming out quick enough and george is singing and I was like, if I ever did drugs, is this a scene that comes into your head?

38:07So George sang us some songs, like, one night, and I'm like, God, people would pay a fortune for this, because he's obviously so talented. But, yeah, it was just a mad experience. Are you political? No, not at all. Even if you were, you wouldn't tell. No, but when I went into... One of my biggest learnings from that jungle is my general knowledge of things in general is terrible. Like, I feel like football is all I know about. So they were talking about... And coffee. Yeah. And English and poetry. But, well, yeah. But they were talking about, like, movies, music, like, all these amazing actresses, actors.

38:42Then there was, like, the politics side. And I'm sitting there with Owen and I'm like, just don't see anything, cos I just didn't have a clue what they were going on about. So there was some moments where there was some, like, quite heavy debates, which you've probably only seen about 20 minutes of. Some of them conversations went on for three hours. and I probably just sat there with Orne, like... So the Covid ones with Hancock went on for a long time? That went on for a long time, yeah. Was that awkward for you? It was a very... Well, I just remember me and Orne sitting together and we just didn't really see anything because, as I say, our knowledge wasn't great.

39:12But I remember thinking in that moment, because Charlene had lost her auntie in Covid, so she was very... Oh, there were some people really upset. Oh, yeah, very upset. They didn't think he should be there. Yeah, but they were so respectful in them moments. That's what I remember thinking. Towards him, you mean? Yeah, like, asking them questions, that they wanted the answers, but was never bullying or anything like that. I think they just felt very passionate about what they were saying. So, yeah, there was a few moments in there where I was like, don't ask me a question or anything like this.

39:41But when people... Sometimes I get asked now, they're like, is Matt still in the WhatsApp groups? And I'm like, well, we've got a few WhatsApp groups. And I'm like... Most of them, I mean. ..well, I did learn how to be political in my answers, so I'm coming out of it. So, yeah. Matt left the group. You're the first LGBTQ plus woman to win the jungle. And I want to ask you about sexuality. Yeah. And why the women's game, it's dealt with correctly, but in the men's game, there are still no male footballers or very few male footballers are willing to come out and say that they're gay because of fear.

40:16Yeah. How do you look at that from someone who's dealt with it in the right way through the women's game and it's just the norm as it should be not in real life? Yeah, I think the women's games always allowed you to kind of be yourself. I think when people ask us about the male game, I think it's different for them. Like, I do think crowds can be horrible. I hear some of the chants that go on around certain issues and people are still chanting about things. And I think some of the male players are probably thinking, if I was to come out, I'm just going to get all this extra stick and everything else.

40:46And if anything, it makes us sad that they probably feel like they can't be themselves. because obviously percentages of society, there must be gay male footballers out there. But I think for me, I've never really made it a thing or not made it a thing. When I meet people, I go, this is my partner, Shelley. And obviously if we're on social media, it's not like a big announcement. It's just like, oh, me and Shelley's been on holiday. And the reason I'm kind of like that is I'd like to think for the next generation that they find someone they love, whether it's male, female, and that's just kind of how they live their life.

41:18and I'm always like, if people have a problem with someone else being happy, then I'd look more at their life. So, yeah, I am fortunate that in the women's game, I feel like we have just been able to be ourselves, whether you've got a husband, a wife, a partner that's a male, female, there's kind of never really been any issues and I don't see why in 2023 there should be issues, really. No, and I was speaking to Shelley before and she said that she was waiting for a date off you. We've never had a wedding date announcement on the Oval app. Are you going to give us one? Well, when I went to cut this cake, I was like, this probably will be our wedding in here, because the only time we'll see each other is when we're working in the shop.

41:56But, yeah, we do need a Saturday. I think since retiring, she thought I was going to have a lot of free time. But it's been more busy than when I played. So, yeah, we do need definitely Saturday. I think we've been engaged three years now, so she does keep doing this to us, which I think means getting a move on. Jill, that was absolutely amazing. I loved it. Thank you for the cake, thank you for the coffee and all the best in the future. You've had a great day, free hoodie and everything. Do I have to have to pay for this? No, Shelley's got the card machine on.

42:47Thank you.