Kieran Maguire Grilled On 115 Charges, Trent & More! | The Overlap Fan Debate

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1:53Go to bombas.com slash audio and use code audio for 20 % off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com and use code audio. If guilty, you've got to add a zero to the points deductions that we've seen for Forrest and Everton. If not guilty, there's going to be a lot of trouble. We're found guilty, we're found guilty, and we'll hold our hands up, but regardless of the verdict, I think the damage has already been done. For us, it just feels like it's always the big six are protected, and the rest of us, it doesn't matter. The lad's had 20 years at the club, and if he wants to go, if he wants to do something different, try a different city, go to a different club, Who am I to say shouldn't do that?

2:33Selling someone like Kabi Meno would just be like the death belt. What chance have we got? I mean, all these sharks come round, show a bit of money, and they're off. Ivan Toney would have been great, but apparently him and Arteta, who knows, right? Apparently didn't have the same philosophy on football. I don't know. Who scores goals? I don't want you. But that's what I do.

2:56Hello and welcome back to the Overlap Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet. I'm alongside Paul Scholes and all our lovely fans from up and down the country. So, the weekend, what have we done? Cup games, Salford, how's it been the weekend? Yeah, good win for Salford, Saturday Bromley away, which was a nice, tough game. We've still got eight games left, I think, seven or eight games that we need to win, probably six of them. to get in the playoffs but yeah the rest of it FA Cup strange weekend really we know no Premier League football after two weeks of missing it really strange well last week on Stick to Football the other show that we do on the overlap there was a there was a little bit of banter about murals in Liverpool we've all got one and someone else might have one in Middleton yeah I didn't I wasn't expecting that I missed the episode last week sorry I don't really know what you're talking about but yeah but yeah yeah there's a mure on the side of a chippy chippy is that a chippy that you used to go to or why is it in the city is this where you grew up it's where I grew up yeah Middleton yeah that's where I'm from I think I didn't really know about it somebody sent me a picture of it on Instagram last week apparently there was a vault for three or four people from Middleton who are the other ones who are the other people the other ones Cortina who Cortina aren't some of them Liam Frey yeah Yeah, I don't think it was him.

4:20Steve Coogan. Yeah, OK. And there was a girl, I think she's a swimmer, is it? Kerry Ann Payne or something like that? Olympic swimmer? It sounds like I've got it wrong. I'm going to get someone like that from Middle, so anyway, I won the vote. So you're the most famous person from Middle? Yes. OK, so brilliant. It looks fantastic. We've got Kieran McQuire in, famous for The Price of Football. That's a book, isn't it, or a podcast? I think it's both. Is it both? OK, so you made a few quid there.

4:51But let's start with the FA Cup. Luke? Yeah. Another semi-final for Manchester City. Seven semi-finals in a row, is there? Some go on that. Yeah, I mean, if we didn't bottle it to Wigan in 2018 as well, it'd have been nine. Pep's got eight and nine, so it's, yeah, it's mad. You said like a trophy, eight and nine. The semi-finals, aren't they? Yeah, well, no one else has got seven in a row, have they? It's consistency, isn't it? So, yeah, hopefully we can go through. Bournemouth yesterday was all right until the coach broke down on the way back. So, yeah, 13 hours on a coach ain't nice. I watched the game yesterday and I was struck by how much it meant to Pep.

5:26I could see when the goals were going in and his reaction on the side of the pitch, when the final whistle blew, it almost felt like he knew or he felt that was a really tough game. Obviously, he's lost there, I think, in the league as well. Do you feel that as a supporter? It felt like a big victory. The away end was like, really, I think it was probably the best we've had all year. There's only 1.9K City fans where he was like a proper hardcore away end. A Sunday against Bournemouth, it's an absolute trek, everyone knows that. And yeah, it was really, really good all game. The players as well, it's a weird little thing you pick up on.

5:54First thing they did at kick-off, all came and just clapped the fans. And you know, sometimes they give a token gesture like that, but I thought the whole game, yeah, it was just quality that yesterday. And it was a big win, it was probably the biggest game of the season. What about the lad who come on, he was brilliant. Oh, Riley, yeah, he's got two goals against Plymouth. I know it's Plymouth, you can't disrespect him too much. They beat Liverpool, obviously. In the last round, he's got two goals, and then he's come off the bench under pressure at left-back and got two assists to win the game and got man of the match again.

6:24So, yeah, trust the youth players, I suppose. Did he score against Salford as well? Yeah, he got one against Salford, yeah. A lot of players got one against Salford.

6:35You know, if you won the FA Cup, how would you class the season? Would it be classed as a success? I think everyone's mind's been skewed a little bit by the fact, obviously City have been so successful recently, but if we can get in the Champions League and win the FA Cup, other than Liverpool, that's the best season pretty much anyone in England will have. It's better than Gillingham in the playoffs. Yeah, it definitely is. It's definitely better than that. But yeah, I think that's a quality season. If we'd gone toe-to-toe with Liverpool and lost out, and not won the FA Cup and come second, you'd rather come fifth and win an FA Cup than that, definitely.

7:08It's not a quality season for Man City, though, is it? No, it's not a quality season. You just said it was? Yeah, maybe you got a bit excited because we beat Bournemouth in the Cup. But yeah, it's a good season. You can't argue with a cup. I mean, I'm not saying we were anywhere near it. We could lose the Cup and we could lose top five. But I don't think you can argue with a cup and getting in the Champions League. That's the target now, isn't it? Hannah, he's just... Well, Scorsese just said, in terms of Manchester City winning the FA Cup and maybe qualifying for the Champions League, is not a successful season for them.

7:37But for Aston Villa, that'd be a great season, wouldn't it? Yeah, it's something that most Villa fans alive now haven't seen, or at least my generation, my parents' generation. The FA Cup is the one thing that we've really missed. And in my lifetime, I've not seen us win a trophy. So the FA Cup is sort of like the creme de la creme of English football. It's the one that everyone really wants to win. So for us to get that, I think, would make this an incredible season. I think it's the thing that Emery has come to the club to do. and I don't think he'll really be happy until we have some silverware.

8:08Obviously, doing that in the Champions League is particularly difficult. But I feel like in the FA Cup this season, we're probably not going to get a better chance. No disrespect again to the teams we're up against because Forest City and Palace are all teams that we've struggled against historically and in recent times. So I don't think it will be easy by any stretch to even get to the final. But it's a really good opportunity. you've not got Liverpool, United, Chelsea, Arsenal in the competition anymore so we've absolutely got to go for it and I'm hoping that we'll be able to do it You know when you say go for it do you think there could be a situation where obviously you're trying to qualify for the Champions League through your league position you're in the Champions League, you've got the FA Cup I mean, we always get asked this as players or supporters and choose one what is the one that you think that's where I want me to manage to play as best team and go all out for it?

8:58I think at the minute, for me, it's the FA Cup because we just don't know how that league form's going to go. It's been a bit iffy. If winning the FA Cup guarantees us a place in Europe, which is we absolutely need it for so many reasons, not only to win a trophy, but financially we need to be in Europe. So I think the FA Cup is where we need to be. The Champions League could just be that step too far for us, I think. And also, I just want to welcome you on your debut. So thanks for coming along. also Scolzi I want to ask you about probably didn't happen so much with you because you've won things and qualified for the Champions League but when you have asked that question Champions League or FA Cup where would you stand on that as a player I was glad what you said that's what I would want to do as a player win the FA Cup I'd definitely want to win a medal it's the most important thing when you're looking back on your career in years to come and looking back at your club you're not thinking I'll qualify for the Champions League there's nothing to show for that really other than a bit of prestige being in the competition but when you look back and we've won the FA Cup you've got a medal you've got something to show and I always think it's always more important to win things rather than qualify for things if you don't know So we were speaking about the FA Cup and I made a comment last week that hasn't gone down particularly well Man City fans that I think it'd be great for the FA Cup if City didn't win as a different team so to prove that probably the majority of the people thinking along the same lines.

10:26Hands up, anyone who wants to see Man City win the FA Cup? More than a thought, actually. You've got a Birmingham shirt on there and you're a Man City fan? No, I just rather Villa didn't win. There are other teams in the competition who can also win it. But now that we're talking about Manchester City, I think we're all aware that it feels like the situation we've been talking about for the last, I don't know how many years about Man City's charges are they going to. We're going to get the result one way or another in the next few days or weeks. Kieran, we've got you in. Can you tell us where we're at right now and how close is the call to be coming out?

11:09Well, I've been on standby from a few broadcasters for the last two or three weeks. And my wife's got a suitcase packed because if the verdict comes in, she's moving out. So we don't know. I have spoken to some people high up, and they reckon that only four or five people in the country know when the verdict's come up. So there's lots of IT cases, lots of people saying on WhatsApp groups and so on that it's due out this Friday, next Monday and so on. But nobody knows for sure. When it does come out, I think the big fear is that you get the verdict as to whether they're guilty or innocent of the 115 charges, but you don't get told what the punishment is.

11:45That could take later. If you look at some court cases, somebody will be found guilty or not guilty. and then the judge goes away and considers. I think that would really set the cat amongst the pigeons. But in terms of the actual date, I think Pep said that it was going to be in March. Well, we've got to the end of March and no news. So how long, we don't know. And also you've got to think about the lawyers. They're on the clock. If I'm on£3 ,000,£5 ,000 an hour, I'm not going to hurry a decision as to when the result's going to come out. Do you think it will be before the end of the season? Do you think everybody wants to get it before the end of the season so you know where you are maybe for next season as well.

12:21There's certainly a desire from the Premier League for it to come out because otherwise we've got a hangover over the summer in terms of where does this leave clubs? Because if it comes out in July, for example, and Manchester City are given a 40 or 50 point deduction, then presumably one of Leicester or Ripswich will be saying, well, if that had come out earlier, we would have avoided relegation. So therefore they might be putting in a legal case. We've seen Burnley recently put in a case against Everton for the points deduction there. They feel that they suffered financially. We've seen both Middlesbrough and Wickham Wanderers do the same for Derby County when they got a points deduction because it came in too late.

13:03And if that does kick off, you've got huge legal ramifications. Scolzi, I mean, obviously we're not legal people, but what would you think would be a fair punishment if Man City were guilty? I don't know, Jamie. It's hard to say, isn't it? Just as long as it is fair, I think that's the right word to use. Obviously, Forrest and Everton have had punishments as well, haven't they? So as long as it's along those fair lines, I don't know, Kieran's probably the... There's a few points like that for Man City is not going to make up for over a decade. Am I right in thinking the charges go right back to 2009?

13:42I mean, Luke, you were only just born then. It's been your whole life that Man City have been doing this, and it's had knock-on effects for everybody else like us. We have had 2009, where the charges date back to, we were in the championship, we were 15th. We had just been taken over a few years under Marcus Evans, but that was our 15 years in the championship stalemate because our owner would not spend any money. And McCarthy said the year that he got us into the playoffs, he needed money for us to finish automatic, and we didn't. We dropped, and then we didn't get through the playoffs. I know going back to that, but I'll just say as long as the punishment is fair.

14:24I'm not saying it has to be the same as Everton, the same as Forrest, but as long as it's fair, going back that long, then big points. I think it will be points, won't it, Kieran? It will be. The tariffs that we've seen from the commissions for both Everton and Forrest said the way forward. It's no point fining a billionaire owner a few quid, because there's no disincentive there to misbehave. So if you take a look at, if you read the commission reports, and I wouldn't recommend, it's probably about as exciting as watching Brighton versus Forest at the weekend. If you read the commission reports from cover to cover, they both say that these were minor breaches of the rules.

15:05And what Manchester City are being accused of is corporate fraud over the period of nearly a decade. So if guilty, you've got to add a zero. which are the points deductions that we've seen for Forrest and Everton. If not guilty, there's going to be a lot of trouble. Sorry, Jamie, I was just going to say, they usually frame it as if both sides have won, haven't they? Somehow. Do you think that's likely to happen as well? And there's also the lawyer's fees to pay as well, isn't there? Yeah, if we take a look at the Associated Party Transaction Rule, which came out recently where Manchester City effectively said the Premier League rules are unfair, that was a big victory for Manchester City.

15:43but the Premier League have tried to claim that they were the beneficiaries there. We will find out, ultimately, there's going to be a penalty, and that penalty is going to be decided by the Commission. If it's in the form of points deductions, then it's got to be a victory for the Premier League. I think the one concern that people have is what happens if Manchester City are found innocent of the accusations of inflating money coming into the club and playing players off book, but they've been found guilty of not cooperating with the Premier League, in which case they'll get a fine because that's what UEFA did.

16:15Amy, can I ask you, you mentioned about the financial situation at Ipswich, but how do you and the other fans feel about actually footing the bill or the legal fee? Because they're going to have to be paid by the Premier League and that's going to have to be split between all the clubs. How do you feel about that? I don't know if we'll have to worry about it next year, but it just feels... We still have to pay it. We had the same impact with Leicester and all of that coming and going last year and whether they were going to get points deduction if they hadn't. I mean, we were all right in the end.

16:44But for us, it just feels like it's always the big six are protected and the rest of us, it doesn't matter. Like when we went into administration back in the early noughties, it was at the time where there were massive clubs starting to go out of business. And it just feels like that just gets forgotten and doesn't matter. For me, the biggest thing is at the end of the day, these punishments are here because it is the wrong way to run a football club. and that just gets forgotten amongst Man City getting a fine that won't even touch their pockets, which is likely to be what is going to happen.

17:17I just think we feel like we're never... We don't really know, do we, sir? No, you are absolutely right and that is totally me seven months into the Premier League and I'm an absolute pessimist, so I totally get it. But it doesn't feel like the actions... I mean, like I say, I keep saying it, this is a decade and a half now, of their actions being wrong and it's still not been stopped. And it's happening across the league now as well with so many clubs being involved. For us as Ipswich fans, there's a lot of resentment that we stuck to it. We'll have Dilap back after you. He scored a few goals this year, Liam Dilap.

17:53Well, that, yeah, I'm sure we'll talk about that a bit later on. He's a product of the academy that we've apparently fraudulently made, so there you go. So you're expecting a big apology from everyone, aren't you, if this ruling goes your way? Well, at the end of the day, the way I see it, with anything in life, unless something's been proven, I'm not going to have an opinion on it. So you've never had an opinion on anything in your life? Of course not, Jamie. Of course not, Jamie. At the end of the day, there's no verdict. So I just think it's very unfair from other fan bases. They can, you know, in private, speak about how you like, but I just see a lot of pundits and stuff coming out, speaking a lot about this.

18:31And like Pep said when it all happened, And he said City have basically been condemned. The reputational damage has already been done. It could come out tomorrow now, City not guilty. I think everyone would just still stick to the same opinions they've got now. So that's how I feel about it. I know a lot of City fans share the same opinion. If we're found guilty, we're found guilty and we'll hold our hands up. But I just think the damage is already done, regardless of the verdict. I think the damage has already been done.

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20:29first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com and use code audio at checkout. A Mochi moment from Mark, who writes, I just want to thank you for making GLP-1s affordable. What would have been over$1 ,000 a month is just$99 a month with Mochi. Money shouldn't be a barrier to healthy weight. Three months in and I have smaller jeans and a bigger wallet. You're the best. Thanks, Mark. I'm Myra Amid, founder of Mochi Health. To find your Mochi moment, Visit joinmochi.com. Mark is a Mochi member compensated for his story.

21:07It's time for our new game on the winning track, brought to you by Trainline. Their best price guarantee means you won't find cheaper same-day train tickets anywhere else. And even if you do, Trainline will refund the difference. Exclusions and conditions apply. Search best price guarantee on trainline.com. Right, we've got a new segment in the show. it is the train line segment we can see it up there we're going to call it the winning track me and Scores are going to be involved obviously and fans will compete against each other to identify a mystery footballer so and the winning team will win a train line voucher but there's a catch there's a catch if you if you yeah if you if you guess and you guess wrong you're out you're done oh Right, and the first one is Adam V.

21:59Luke. Yeah? Yeah, OK. Yeah, OK. Come on, Adam. Right, come on. Scolese, put the first one on. Bournemouth. Bournemouth. Gosh. No, no takers. Put the next one on. Liverpool. I think that's about right, Jamie. Yeah. Dominic Solanke. F*** off, Adam. I'm sorry.

22:28That's out, he's out. He's got it. It's a good guess as well, actually. Can I have that clip, please, for my alarm? That's a really good guess. Tottenham. See, I would have said it again anyway. Yeah, that's what made me realise it's a good guess. Go on, next one. This has got to seal it, hasn't it? Southampton. He's not going to get it. Jamie Redknapp? Yes. Oh, no. Yeah. I was thinking currently.

22:581-0 So get them all off And we're going to go on to the next player When did he retire by the way? What's that? When did he retire? I would say about 2005, 2006 I was two when he retired Brilliant You weren't born I was two when he retired Oh you two So we've got mystery player two First day club on please Bournemouth again? Is that right? Yeah Go on go to the next one I'm not going to go with that one Burnley where the fuck is it now is it Manchester isn't it yeah up a bit higher higher that's alright no right the next one Liverpool even I know that good at this you two aren't you yeah what the fuck you know next club Southampton again which two are you ah yes well done

24:01So this is the last one. Mystery player three. Please don't start in Bournemouth. I was there yesterday. I can't bear the place now. Come on. Right, come on then. We'll start with the first one. Scolsey. Blackburn, which is near Burnley, isn't it? Is that up there? Go straight to the second one. There's no chance they're going to get with that. Newcastle. Are we going up here? Yeah. Right. Next one. Manchester City. I think it's easy, this one, isn't it? You should get this. Next one. Aston Villa. Oh. If you haven't got it now, I'm not sure you're going to get it. No, no. That would be the last one to help.

24:44Are they still playing? No. Oh, he can't ask questions. I'm helping you out as well, you know. Where's that about here? Stoke? Eastman, yeah. Stoke East Midlands Nah You're just a bit lower than Manchester on the right I'd say that Goalkeeper Shea Given Yes I was thinking that but I didn't know you played away I was I was I promise you Well done A great start to the new segment Remember to download the Trainline app and search best price guarantee on trainline.com

25:29What's the situation with the supporters with this ticket and thing that you're involved in now? Via Go-Go? Really poor, yeah. So the club have basically season tickets. So I've got a season ticket. Obviously a lot of City fans have got season tickets but there's no more being added. So if you've got a young lad now that's 10, 12, young girl, whatever it is, they can't get a season ticket and basically the club are trying to use this ticket agency via go-go. They're selling tickets on there for inflated prices and they're more bothered about making money, it seems, on a game-to-game basis. Is that a problem?

26:08I saw some of this online where the away supporters are actually buying them. So did Madrid fans enter? Was there a Liverpool fan up in the away? It's really poor, yeah. It's disappointing because you see the City fans that have been banned the City fans and rightfully so if you're being violent for example at the Liverpool game a Liverpool fan leaped up in the home end I believe and he just got battered basically which is wrong you can't have violence at football games but that could have been prevented by not selling a ticket in the home end to a Liverpool fan so yeah there's a handful of issues at City with tickets but I know the fan groups are tackling them so hopefully they can It feels like the clubs are starting to become the top Yeah The clubs are starting to wrap up tickets and packages or going through third parties to charge more and more via the back door almost.

27:00So I think it's brilliant that City fans are talented. So for any City fans or other fans watching, I think the 1894 group have arranged for the Leicester game, we're going to miss the first nine minutes of the game because this is the ninth effective agency that City have sold tickets to or whatever. So for the first nine minutes, a handful hopefully as many fans as possible are just not going to walk in just going to stay on the concourse Gareth what you said there and the reason I want to say this because I've got a lot of mates Liverpool fans and the atmosphere has been questioned at Anfield this season even though Liverpool obviously look like they're going to have a really successful season what happened at Wembley I know we lost the game it wasn't a great game but the atmosphere wasn't great and a lot of people I speak to are talking about who's actually getting their hands on the tickets or different things is that a problem for Liverpool Man City are talking there I've heard obviously Rory's been in before speaking about Chelsea as well is this affecting the atmosphere as well at Grounds?

27:53I think so I think what's happened is and you know there's rights and wrongs and it depends what pot you're in but you know at Liverpool as an example I'm a season ticket holder and I've been for a long time but I didn't go to Wembley because I didn't qualify for a ticket in the ballot and wasn't able to get one from anywhere else and that's not the first time that that's happened to me or my mates and we've all gone since we were teenagers so what's happened is Liverpool have kept the number of season tickets suppressed. It's low as a percentage compared to the rest of the league. And what they've done is sold loads and loads and loads of memberships.

28:24There's about, I think it's around 200 ,000 memberships. So anyone who's a member who's been to, say, the game's in the League Cup, they're in the same pot as me. So it's slightly more random, if you like, who's ending up with the tickets for finals. You're not having that sort of loyalty rewarded. And there is debate with the club about that. Some people are saying it should be a points system, it should go back a long time and things like that. I think you do have that. There are other clubs, I think Chelsea have a points. You've got it at Brighton. So there's a debate going on about that currently.

28:57But yeah, there's definitely... I mean, it's always dodgy ground, though, isn't it? Because you mentioned before about kids who want to get on the ladder. My lad's a teenager himself. He wants to start going all the time. I do my best, but he didn't go to the final. But he's a member. so how does he get on the ladder and it's all down to the fact that the whole league and the club has been marketed to the nth degree all around the world and it's become a global product hasn't it and there's a huge demand for it and this is a consequence of that so it's striking the balance OK I haven't spoke to you as I say let's get back to the football but I haven't spoke to you since the news about Trent blew up again so I admire saying it lots of other former players have as well but what's your take as a Liverpool fan?

29:44Because a lot of people are sort of almost telling, not just Liverpool, but any club in this situation, they always tell you whether the Liverpool fans are right or they're wrong and how you should feel about it. What is the general consensus of the fan base? To me, I see lots of different opinions. One of the ones that's really annoying me is people telling other people what they should think and that if you don't think this way, you're therefore not a big red or whatever it might be. me I think I'm quite cold about football like I still like it I still go I'm still passionate about it I still have a great time but you know over the years it's ground me down I've got to be honest so I think the last player that I was really sort of emotionally invested in it was probably Fernando Torres and when he went to Chelsea I was like I'm sort of done with that I'm going to protect myself from now on if you know what I mean so I'm not going to go all in on players in that same way plus I've grown up I'm nearly 50 so So with Trent, I just look at it as he's been a great player for us.

30:42It's been a great story. I love the fact that a lad from West Derby lifted the European Cup and all that kind of stuff. And of course, I would love him to stay. But equally, some of the vitriol I see, it's mostly on social media as usual, I'm not in on it. I don't feel it. I just think the lad's had 20 years at the club. And if he wants to go, if he wants to do something different, try a different city, go to a different club, who am I to say he shouldn't do that? and look I get the bit where people say I wish there could be a fee coming back to Liverpool but equally they've had 20 years out of him and I just think and he didn't pay nothing for him you know he's come to him as a 6 year old hasn't he and I also think as well they're just nuances to every whatever argument you make there's a slight nuance to it so even that saying about a transfer fee if there was one would Madrid still be interested because Dave it's a tactic of Madrid that isn't it to do that I think Alaba, when he went, was a similar situation.

31:40His contract was worn down. He was at a big club in Bayern Munich, but he wanted to go and play for Madrid. And when you've got that situation, however that starts, however that process begins, Bellingham talking on international duty or whatever it might be, allegedly, once the ball's rolling, what can the club really do about that? Maybe two years ago they could have sold them, but then you don't get sent for two years. So, you know what I mean? wherever you go with it I feel like there's slight nuances and counter arguments and like I say I'm not angry about it I just think that's what happens in modern football and when it's the other way around when a club just casts a player aside no one really talks about that do they?

32:20So you know players get a phone call when they're on the beach in the summer and say oh yeah we're selling you and they'll be like hang on well there's no loyalty that way around is there and that's happened and Liverpool have done that Liverpool have brought players on threes as well and Liverpool got I don't know Harvey Elliott as an example and Fulham weren't happy about that Liverpool got Virgil van Dijk and Southampton reported Liverpool over that the way they went about it so yeah I'm not happy about it I wish he was staying but I'm not angry either what's your view on that let's say that was a Manchester lad come to the academy or yeah so I try to imagine it as if it was one of our players growing up and we were a dominant team we felt for a long time that we could go on and win leagues and challenge for European Cups that probably didn't work out as well as we wanted.

33:10And I don't think any of us would want to go. I really don't. I think if you talk about the Manchester United team now and somebody came in, then yeah, good luck. You deserve to go. Now, I think Trent possibly looking at Liverpool and thinking, they're a really good team like Miranda that are going to win the Premier League. It doesn't feel like it's going to be a dominant team for years to come. You might disagree with that. I don't know. You might disagree, but it doesn't feel like that at this point. It still feels like there's a few issues at Liverpool, obviously with Trent, with Van Dijk and Mo Salah, and you still think there's a bit of work to do.

33:49So I think that's the main difference. I go to Real Madrid, and Real Madrid are going to win leagues. They are going to probably win European courts for the next 10 years. So I can understand him wanting to do it from that point of view. Gareth, you've got a question for Kieran? Yeah, I just wondered how you thought the club might be looking at the Trent situation. So, you know, what I just talked about there about getting a transfer fee, what would the bean counters think about losing this fee that was never on the table in the first place? Would they be tearing their hair out saying that's 70 or 80 million quid down the drain?

34:24Or would they be saying he was nothing in the first place? We've had this value out of him. We've had perhaps the peak of his career. We've done all right out of him. Well, I think there was an offer from Real Madrid in January, and it was about£25 million. Derisory, yeah. They turned that down. Now, why did they turn that down? Because they're looking to qualify for the Champions League next season. That's the most important thing. That's worth up to£150 million to£200 million. So therefore, by keeping Trent at the club and making sure that they win the Premier League, you do it from a financial point of view, making progress in Europe, making progress in the Cups.

34:58They would have done the sums because they are the most cold and calculating and forensic club going, and they are brilliant at what they do. So they simply said, we are better off keeping him to the end of the season. That£25 million lost will be more than made up by winning the Premier League. The bonuses they get from sponsors, getting the additional money you get from being the top club from the English 4, English 5 in next year's Champions League, that has all been factored into that decision. and 10 million quid off the wage bill when he goes as well well I think might have to go and sign somebody else so you look at always look at things on a net basis Baz I want to speak to you about the Merseys outside derby what are your thoughts going into it?

35:40Fear I'm thankful to your own Dightish and then I think it's a tough game we know it's always tough at Anfield but Everton will do very well at Anfield to be fair I think Liverpool will be we need Liverpool need this they've had a couple I think they've lost the last two haven't they they've played so they'll be ready for it obviously a little bit there's a little bit of an edge I think because the other one wasn't that long ago on Tarkovsky's volley and I don't think Liverpool fans were too happy although I do remember West Brom celebrations and stuff but there you go bit of band no listen I think Everton Everton are in really good form you know nine games unbeaten if we're still unbeaten on Thursday morning I might be celebrating myself outside somewhere doing the arms and all that but that was a tough game Liverpool are going to win the league so it's a really tough one and you know we'll see You just said there about Sean Dyche and obviously Moises coming has done brilliant but Sean Dyche has obviously he's been on Talk Sport hasn't he a couple of times I mean how's it how's it gone down what he said about sort of the job that he did at Everton or how it went?

36:55I think it's caused more stare the job he said he did the burning he wished he'd have put the£150 million in debt and got the buy a unit job I think that one was the one that caught a lot but I don't know I think there's half half of Everton don't want to hear his name there's a third or a third that's good matter there's a quarter that's probably a bit like talking utter nonsense and then there'll be the ones who we gaslight that do go oh yeah he was right he did do a good job but when you look back at his spell, five months nearly without a win isn't doing a good job. Three wins in half a season and not scoring in nine out of 11 games isn't a good job.

37:32So it depends. I mean, if his sort of MO is just to keep you in the Premier League, then he'll argue that 17th is like winning the Champions League, but that's not what I see. I mean, we've had Marco Silva this week doing an interview and referencing Evan and saying you don't actually realise how big they are till you manage them and they're still the fifth most successful English team and all that. So, Arndyte's turned up as if he hadn't even heard of Everton and he was doing us a favour. So, that's the way it is. Moyes has flipped it, like I said. We'll go to Manfield. We'll have a go. That might play into Liverpool's hands or not.

38:04I don't know. Liverpool are topside anyway. So, it's just one of them on Wednesday. But can I just ask Kieran one quick question just about the... Because you brought the Burnley thing up before about trying... Which is nonsense, by the way. They should be trying to sue the Premier League, not Everton. But if this thing goes against Man City, can we have a case for 2014? And they stopped us getting in the Champions League by beating us twice. Stopped us getting into a League Cup final. Do you know what I mean? They don't want to give Liverpool one of the titles. No, that's what I mean. It opens up absolute chaos, I think.

38:34What's your sort of opinion on members suing each other or trying to? I think there will be an awful lot of clubs taking legal counsel with a view to, do we think we've got a good case? From a legal probability point of view, we do have precedent. So therefore going forwards, I suspect there'll be an awful lot of out-of-court settlements because it's a lot cheaper than doing it and trying to get some mediation and negotiation. But the lawyers will be rubbing their hands together if Manchester City lose. Yeah.

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40:45Simon, I want to come to you on the big story of Arsenal the last few days is bringing in a new sport and director and the guys from Atletico Madrid. That's right, yeah. I think we're in that world now, aren't we? Where we know about these people and the clubs that they've been at. They're almost like signing a player in some ways, isn't it? It's a very high profile. I mean, how's that gone down with the Arsenal fans? Are you excited by the fact of this guy coming in? I think so. If you look through his track record, it's pretty good. I mean, it's instantly linked us to Kunia from Wolves as well because he signed him for Atletico in 2021.

41:19And obviously, maybe a question to ask Kieran, Arsenal do not want to spend a lot of money on a striker. Seems to be the way. Otherwise, you go drop 150 million on Isaac as soon as the window open, wouldn't you? Why wouldn't you do that? He's Premier League ready. He's tailor-made for Arsenal, I think. And he just keeps getting better and better. What price are Newcastle going to sell at? Super high. So if they're not going to do that, and you just brought this guy in and he knows Kunien, I think his release cause is like 65 million. But that's at least exciting because he has, you know, has relationships with maybe different players and different clubs that we haven't done before.

41:49But also, you just said it, right? Everyone was talking about it before Manchester United got theirs. Obviously, there was some controversy with that as well, with people coming and going. If you don't have that position secured up now, you're not going to get the players. And if Arsenal had left it until the transfer window opens, well, then what? You have six weeks or a month or whatever of doing nothing. then you're going to miss out on a bunch of other signings and you are going to have to pay more. So the fact they've done it now in, what is it, sort of April basically, gives them a couple of months to sort of get your legs under the table, figure things out, work with Arteta and decide who we're going to get.

42:18I assume we'll finish second by living hope. And then if they don't bring a striker then something's gone terribly wrong. But I think it's good. I think it does feel like a new signing because you have to hit that summer window hard and you can't do that without the foundations in place. And this guy sounds great. I mean, I'm going to say that obviously because I'm an Arsenal fan. I'm looking at the positives. I'm sure there's someone out there right now going he's terrible that's why you've got him he can just walk into any club but he does have some good connections it seems like but we'll find out I'm just glad they sorted it because obviously for the last few months it's been a bit weird about whatever happened with Togba there is Kuhnye the man that you'd want?

42:49no I was going to say he's not a not on the line he's not Karez as well apparently he has a relationship with Jokarez as well but I wouldn't want either of them personally because I kind of feel like this is being a bit redundant they feel more like a habits type player. You can play in and around that area. I want someone to stand there and just, what do you do? I score goals. What else do you do? I run around a lot. Then what do you do? I score more goals. So, I mean, Ivan Toney would have been great, but apparently him and Arteta, who knows, right? Apparently didn't have the same philosophy on football.

43:20I don't know. So many things get bad around. He scores goals and I don't want you. But that's what I mean. I think it ties back to the Aubameyang thing, right? Like, we all have to have this sort of one, which it makes sense, right? You want a similar philosophy. that's just nonsense you see on social media forums how would anybody know? well someone sat right there going oh these two aren't getting on there's no way they can do a thing but no I don't want players like that if we want to go right back in time just give me an Ian Wright man it feels like the rest of the team is in place ready to go and you just need someone to hang about in the box to put it in who that is I don't know so at the moment the people we're linked with it goes back to the Isaac thing he will do more than that but he'll score goals whereas everybody else kind of feels like they'll keep shuffling back a little and they keep dropping deep.

44:05We've got those players. Just need someone to put the ball in the box. The ball in the goals, I would say. So hopefully not those players. But actually, Kieran, as you're here, if I can just sort of jump on that. Everyone says that, but everyone says that Arsenal when it comes to sort of their financials are pretty good. And they could go out and drop a lot of money, but they don't. So is it like a catch-22 situation, which is the reason why Arsenal never get brought up in these stories is because they don't spend a lot of money and therefore they're good. So actually, they're kind of balancing the books.

44:32No one wants to go to you either as well. Of course they do. Everyone wants to come to us. We're great. We play like songs. We play like all the fan themes before people's games. We've got a dog called Wynn. Who doesn't want to come to Arsenal? I didn't want to. I mean, London, partying, nightclubs and stuff. Keir, people keep talking about the type of money. Especially Arsenal, because it feels like they speak about it probably more than anybody. But financially, in terms of PSR and different things, Is it rational? Are maybe Liverpool actually capable of it? Would they be allowed to do this?

45:05Have they got the finances to do it? Both clubs are in a very strong position because they are guaranteed Champions League qualification next season. So that's worth a minimum of£30 to£40 million just for qualifying, plus the matches you'll pick up during the season. They're getting£4 to£5 million per home match. So you factor all of that in. If you sign a player, even for£150 million, you spread that over five years, it's costing you£30 million a year, plus the wages. Let's say the wages, even at the top end, we're talking 15, 45 million pounds for one player. That's your entry fee for the Champions League.

45:37And also, if we take a look at what Arsenal have done in recent years, their wage bill went down quite a bit. They had a lot of players who were on big contracts, if you remember, sort of four or five years ago. Those players have now moved off. Arsenal have got wiggle room. Liverpool will have wiggle room, potentially, because Trent's no longer going to be there and we could lose one or two other players on top of that. So they've all got scope to spend. It's a case of he's 26 years old. It's his last big contract. Clubs are also looking at potential movings later on in that player's career. That tends to not be the case when you get to 28, 29.

46:15Adam, we're going to come to you. Manchester derby, you're far away. I'm not really focusing on the Premier League games at all, to be honest, at the moment. I'm mainly focused on Europa League. You constantly hear how important the Champions League football is to these big teams. And I hate that we kind of have to think this way now as football fans. Oh, what does that transfer mean for our PSR? And what will Champions League mean? Really, I just want to hear the Champions League song at Old Trafford rather than thinking about what it means for us financially. But it is massively important when you look at Man United's team in the summer.

46:48We're going to have to have some form of a rebuild. I think academy players and young players are the way out of it, generally speaking for us. but we have to be able to spend in the market. And I was just wondering, Kieran, how much of a difference for Manchester United could that Europa League win if we could get the trophy made to United's summer? And without Champions League football, what would United's summer look like? Because I know we've kind of stripped a lot of the wage bill down over the last couple of years and the players that have come in haven't been as big wages. There's still loads of names to go out.

47:20But could it be a positive summer without that Champions League money? Champions League is transformative because you have got those guaranteed monies coming in. You've also, in the case of Manchester United, you've got the sponsor bonuses which will kick in for those companies' products being alongside that Champions League song and the big night. So Manchester United's commercial department will be able to name their own price when the group stage is kicking. So it is, without doubt, the most important thing the club should be concentrating on the rest of the season from a financial point of view.

47:54but you don't fall in love with football, apart from me, for PSR purposes. So that's where they really will be putting their efforts. How much could they spend? People are forgetting that Manchester United actually spent£251 million this season. That appears to go under the radar. They will have some players out of contract. They are not in any financial problems, despite what Jim Ratcliffe was saying. That was done for the cameras rather than anything else in terms of them running out of money by Christmas. So they are Manchester United. They're a huge brand. They will be very popular with players and so on.

48:31It's interesting that you said that because I genuinely felt like he could have been telling the truth. So why do you think he said that? Then what does he gain by? It's deflection. Deflect, deny, discredit. I think he was trying to blame Dan Ashworth. He was trying to blame the previous manager. who was trying to blame. He can't come out and specifically mention the Glazers by now, but he was effectively saying, we've made some poor recruitment decisions, nothing to do with MIGOV, ignoring the fact that he recruited Dan Ashworth, spent£251 million and then sacked him. Yeah, it was an intriguing interview, especially like we very rarely get to hear from someone in that position.

49:11So I think we're just kind of happy just to hear someone speak directly to the fans. But I did think he dodged a few things, but that one never came to mind really. when he was speaking about. Adam, what's this protest that's planned at the Manchester Derby? I know there's... 1958 have been organising different protests. I think there was one with FC United the other day as well, which was nice to see everyone coming together and being united against the Glazers again. How much of an impact these things can have, it's difficult to say really because I don't think the Glazers give two shits, to be honest with you.

49:46As long as Old Trafford still got fans in there and as long as the revenues are still coming in for them and they can still get a dividend I don't think they'll ever really care about fan opinion but it is good to see us kind of coming together on things like ticket pricing and obviously the main aim just being to get the glazes out of the club but I don't think that will ever happen really and that's why I think a lot of United fans had some sympathy with Jim Ratcliffe because he seems to want to do the right things and make Manchester United a successful football club again but we have got that big dark cloud of the Glazers hanging over us constantly and even with someone like him trying to make things happen, it's still difficult.

50:26So yeah, I'm for any protest against them and always have been. Where are you, Adam, and the fans for that fact as well with a lot of rumours about selling the academy products to make, so it obviously provides more funds for players. Talk about Ganaccio and Kobe Mayaner. I get the impression that fans probably aren't that bothered. The Kabimeno one for me would... I know football's changed and the club's changed an awful lot, but selling someone like Kabimeno would just be like the death bell for me of what this club means. You're not supposed to sell players like that. You think about what he's already achieved for the club, scoring in a cup final, some great goals along the way as well.

51:06I don't think... Obviously, when you started out, you were as a forward, weren't you? And then you kind of... Keno got injured, you dropped back into midfield. I don't think we've seen a midfield talent from our academy that that is that good and that talented as Kabi Meno so to let him go I think he was a last one Pogba and Raval he's been disappointing this year though don't you think he's been injured a lot which hasn't helped I think he needs to be fit and I think he's also when he has been available we've been trying to find out where's his best position is he deeper is he a bit further that's what makes me think can this lad fit into my team I think one of those 10s or 8s like higher up off the pitch, just off the striker, I think.

51:44Because if you think about his goal against Liverpool at Old Trafford, his goal against Wolves, his goal against City in the final, they all come from him playing in that forward line just off the left outside the box. So I think he could be someone that... That was under Tanago, wasn't it? Yeah, it was. But that's where his best moments come. And I think if you play him in that position, you get him in that area. I know his best moments came last season under Tanago. That's why I'm asking the question, can he fit into it? If you can't get a footballer like Kabimeno in... I just find it... I totally agree.

52:12I think one of them 10 positions is probably more suited to him. But I think he has tried in there this year. I don't know what it is. Whether he's got a hangover from last summer. He made a false nine when I think he was crying out for a striker. A false nine? I think he was crying out for a striker and then he made it in Europe just in one of those positions. And him and Deleuwe scored, didn't he? He was out of way in Turkey or something, was it? Fanebaccia? Somewhere. He played well. Somewhere like that. Yeah. He played well, but then he got injured again. Yeah. So hopefully we can see him back.

52:40But if we sold him, I'd be devastated.

52:49Maz, Brighton, I mean, Aaron there's talking about, you know, he's just focused on European football. I mean, that's obviously a focus for you for next season. Do you think you can make it? No, we're two points behind Chelsea in fourth. We're seventh at the moment. We're doing well. Obviously, Forest FA Cup game was, yeah, one of the worst 90 minutes I've watched live. obviously yeah last 15 minutes was great we were doing quite well but yeah lost on penalties and yeah bitterly disappointed not getting that cut run but yeah I don't see why not we've got a young manager we've got a really young squad we've got some really exciting players but Labour is just one of the best players I've seen live in a long long time I just think we're a really exciting squad maybe not this season I think Conference League could be quite realistic if we get that I'll be buzzing with that Kazakhstan away I'll be all over that and yeah like you've got to be realistic as well you know we spent a lot of money in the summer I think 200 million so there's a lot of expectation in that sense but yeah look it's going to be really tough there's a lot of good teams around us a lot of people trying to fight for European spots but yeah why not why can't we dream you'd always feel like a club who sells someone each summer you know you spent a lot of money last summer so you're saying about Beliba in midfield is he is he the one you think that could go or someone else in the squad if we're selling Kayseda for 100 million I think he's worth about 150 I think his ceiling is so much higher than Kayseda I think he's got don't get me wrong he has got his moments so even against Forrest he was pretty poor to be honest with you but he's 19 he's so raw he's still young he's still got so much development to go so I just think he's got that kind of quality but yeah annoyingly as soon as someone does well we get spoken about as soon as anyone plays well for Brighton yep they're sold see you later and it's just yeah it's frustrating as a fan because you want to keep your nucleus of the squad you want to kick on you want to get better every season but if he's not selling Caicedo, McAllister Kukorea, Ben White what chance have we got do you know what I mean all these sharks come round to show a bit of money and they're off.

54:39But where do you sign those players from? Smaller clubs. No, but to be fair, Tony Bloom's got a system. He's got the, I think it's called Starlink and he's got this sort of database where he'll go scout. So he's using the tools available to him. He's doing it. So what more do you want from him? Amy, Ipswich. How have you found the Premier League this season? Because I always think of clubs who, especially Ipswich, who were so successful for two years, big jump and then you go from watching the team who win most weeks to losing most weeks how have you found the year the Premier League I'm still clinging on to that hype we keep thinking like this time last year I've just been down to Portman Road it was like this time last year we beat Sheffield 6-0 and then it's coming up to the commentary game the whole game and that's really nice but it's also reached a point where okay we're in reality now and I owe Paul a little bit of an apology because when I spoke to you back in August I think my enthusiasm might have rubbed off on you in a bit and I don't know if you remember, but you predicted us to finish 12th.

55:45I've been out the night before. Do you know what? I do remember, I was waiting for you to say that. I've been a little bit disappointed, I'm sure you have as well, because I thought you'd be, I think I mentioned the Blackpool team that came up, didn't you? Because you've scored loads of goals, I know it's in the Championship, but you haven't really been batted by many teams have you? It's just been a little bit boring We've had a few 4-1s that feels like a bit of a regular scoreline at Anfield that was 4-1 and yeah I've sat through a few droppings but not a massive like you know we haven't had another 9-0 again that's thankfully that's still back in the year in the 90s But you haven't scored anywhere near as many goals have you that I thought you would have done?

56:28And the last two years our thing has been will be fine because however many we concede, we'll score two more. And we have, the name is bound to come up, Liam De Lappe. He has been incredible. But actually, when you look, the number of goals and the gaps in between him scoring, it's just, it's not enough for what you need your number one striker to be. So it has been hard to score. And then we just aren't of the quality to be able to defend against the big teams in the other end. Old Trafford 3-2, the only reason we got that first... I have no idea what happened there. We were all laughing in the away end.

57:08It was great fun, but it's been slip-ups. Oh, Andre and Anna. So we've had a bit of fun, but it has mostly been about... That's why I expected them kind of results, the 3-2s, 4-3, 4-0s. I expected that from you, but has he gone a little bit too defensive, do you think? Trying not to get hammered every week? No, actually our problem has often been the opposite where we've been pushing forward and we've been caught on the counter-attack because we just haven't got the pace and the quality to be able to then stop when we've put every, as we always used to, we've put everything into going forward and trying to get a goal and we just can't and then we haven't been clinical enough in front of goal at the Molyneux it ended, we had a last, it was 93rd or something minute winner from Jack Taylor, from a header, from a corner.

58:01It was one of the best. That will be my highlight of this season. But it shouldn't have been 2-1. We should have been well up because that was when Wolves were really, really struggling. I genuinely thought from what I saw that day, we might stay up because they are dire, but they've managed to pull themselves. They were terrible. I've never seen anything like it. But we haven't managed to step up. And we've had the odd result where it probably should have been a win and we've let it be a draw or it could have been a draw. We were just saying before, it's been amazing when we've managed a draw away at Villa or whatever.

58:36You can't get through on the, oh my God, we drew against Man U at home. That's amazing. It's not enough. Who would you rather keep in the summer? De Lapp or McKenna, the manager? I think I don't. Why do I have to pick? Can I just lock them both in? I'm just reading the question. Liam has been amazing, but actually part of me thinks it would be unfair to cling on to him almost. I mean, obviously we can't. There's all buyback clauses and all this stuff. And he needs to be Premier League. He cannot be championship. He is far too good. I would love to see him with the better service and a team behind him that aren't panicking, who are giving him more of that.

59:19We don't panic. That's really harsh of me. but we are like him getting more service because when he does get the ball, he is terrifying. But again, he hasn't been clinical enough, but he's young, he's learning. It's his first time being, every game I think he's been, except for when he got himself banned, he's always first pick on that team. So he's been special. That said, I would rather let him go and keep Kieran because I think he's probably the only chance we've got of coming back up again. I don't want to have to lose him in the summer to another Premier League club and then have to start again.

59:57This is part of our journey. We've got to the Premier League. Most of us were expecting to come back down, although I was a bit cocky about it in the summer. The expectation now would be back up again. And if we don't manage it, that's a failure. And the only way I feel like we can do that is if we carry this journey on with McKenna. He's going to keep building this team. It was a five-year vision from the owners when they took up. We're not at the end of that yet. And I'm praying that he will want to see the story through. Well, we'll see what happens. And that brings to an end another edition of the Fan Debate on the Overlap, brought to you by Skybet.

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