Lisandro Martínez, Jason Wilcox & 'Lawless' Man United! With Redknapp & Sherwood | EP 4

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3:33Oh, I remember one. I remember one when I... It's quite topical, actually. Roy Hodgson took over. It was his first season after Kenny Dalgleish.

3:49and played in a game, I think it was Leeds at home, and Jason Wilcox, that's why it's topical, got sent off in a game. And on the Monday, Roy sat us all down in the dressing room and we were thinking, what's all this about? And he comes in and he says, I'm fining your two weeks wages. Two? To Jason. He said, because you got sent off. And you, pointing at me, he said, I'm fining your week's wages, because you should have been sent off. I said fuck I ain't paying that straight away I was like I ain't paying that you can imagine Roy like he's looking at me going what I said I ain't paying that I said you want to fine me every time I should be sent off I said I have no dough I said I can't I can't pay that so I refused to pay it I never paid it I think Jason might have paid his in two weeks I got fined a week's wages once for doing a bungee jump in Iron Appa what are you doing what are we doing I came back to Liverpool pre-season.

4:46Someone had took a photo of it, me and Don Hutchison. Roy Evans, that gets us in the office. I didn't even know it was going to come out. He said, what are you doing? I said, you've had a great season. You've gone to Wine Apple. I don't mind you doing that, but what are you having a bungee jump for? Anyway, I was like, I'm so sorry. Week's wages. Who was it? Roy Evans. He didn't want to find him. Nicest fellow in the world, wasn't he? Yeah. Great guy. Top man. Yeah. And then another time I got fined a week's wages for swearing at Jack Santini. He didn't even speak English. I didn't know what I said.

5:16It took me off for about ten minutes to go playing Newcastle away. I was playing all right, to be fair. And I just started to absolutely call it. Well, you didn't clean sub. Yeah. Yeah, it was an impact sub. And, yeah, got done a week's wages for that one as well. So, yeah, Daniel Levy done me. Yeah. Not good. It's hard to find them now. What the... More difficult, I think, would appear. Oh, to find them, yeah. But lateness and all that, I mean, Where does that actually go? George, you should do that. George Graham. Were you in charge of fighting? The captain's sometimes in charge of fighting.

5:49Yeah, I just didn't like it, though. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? No one's trying to be. It's a repeat offender. I think maybe you'd have to pay for a Christmas party or something like that. You stick it into the pot, don't you? A one-off. Yeah, our Christmas party. No one's trying that. Jamie Carragher dressing up as the hunchback of Notre Dame. You know what I mean? That wasn't great either. Really? We all got fired for that. That's a lot of money, haven't I? Right. It's nice to be here, Tim, isn't it? I've had a right go this morning. I've had an air cut, ice bath, sauna. I'm looking forward to this.

6:16Yeah, cool. You've got to make an effort, the overlap, hasn't it? Yeah, you always make an effort, son, don't you? You've got to make an effort. When you get the program, Gary. It's nice. We're the Wednesday, so we're looking forward to it. Yeah. It's a good squad, isn't it? They put it together. Their recruitment's good. Recruitment's good. Better than Man United. Right, but we'll get on to that.

6:40Welcome to the Overlap Daily, brought to you by SkyVegas. Whether it's the big talking points in football or just moments that get everyone talking, we all love a bit of entertainment and that's what SkyVegas is all about. So sit back, enjoy the show and let's get into it.

7:11Tim, let's get started, mate. Yes, mate. What a gift he's given us, isn't he? He must have known we was on today, Martinez. Thank you. Thank you for that. Lissandro, we love you. But, do the Man United hierarchy love him? Because you can't be happy with that, can you? It's out of order. It's out of order what he's come out and said. He's dug him out. Like, Jason, I know he's my pal and someone I've played with for many, many years. He's got a top job there. You know, he knows full well that it comes with a lot of responsibility. And the pressure is on him to produce the players. And from the evidence on what we've seen on the pitch, you know, saying they ain't done it.

7:55So the recruitment's been poor, you know. But still don't give a licence to one of your players, and a bad player, by the way, someone who's having a shocker of a time, who just got bullied in the six-yard box by Dominic Solanke in the last few minutes of the game to gift Tottenham a draw, which they deserved. Keep your mouth shut, mate. It's OK for me saying it from afar, because I've made that mistake myself before. I've done that. I've come out. I've talked against the manager. Not against a manager, against a club. When I was at Tottenham, I was 33 at the time. Glenn Hoddle was a manager. And I just felt like, basically, it was a reason why I was doing it, Jay.

8:38And I think it's exactly the same reason as why Martinez is doing it. He wants out. I'll read you the quotes, Tim. I expect more. 100%. He's talking about investment there. I expect more from our technical director, right on Jason Wilcox's toes. I have to be honest, as players, we have to do more. but it is also important when you make a strong squad to be ready for this kind of night. Really poor, really poor. I have to control myself a lot, but something is a reflection of the mirror of the club and how it's run at the moment. We did a fantastic season last season and now we expect more from the top.

9:11More players to compete because many teams bring their players as well. Atletico have an amazing team and they deserve to win today. I think he wants to move to Atletico on the back of that as well. But that's a good point. So he's out of contract this summer. So how do the players feel? When he walks back in, you know what it's like now, Tim? They'll pick up their phones straight away. You know, they'll go on their phones, have a look. All of a sudden, that flashes up really quickly. He said, do you think he's having a go at you? Or are you thinking he's just having a go at the hierarchy there?

9:39Because as a player, I'm not happy with him. What are you doing that for? If you're Santos and you're Tillemans, new players who have gone into the club, you're thinking, well, you're having a pop at me. He can easily get himself out of that one by saying, no, I just think we should have brought a lot more in than you two. You two are brilliant, you know, blah, blah, blah. I don't think the players these days, they don't have a problem with each other. I think when I said it back in the day there at Tottenham, no one would never come to me and say, what are you talking about? Why are you out of order?

10:06Only people who did that were the club. Yeah. Ended up getting fined for it. So I think it's really sad that he's doing it. If it was Bruno doing it, and we know why Bruno wouldn't come out and do that, because he's got a long contract with a football club. Martinez has got the up because he's out of contract in the summer. They refuse to, and rightly so, by the way, because he's shocking. I don't think he's good enough. I just don't think he is. I think he's never been fantastic for the club. I don't think he's fantastic now. And on the back of what he did last Saturday evening against Tottenham, for them now in the Champions League game to come out and...

10:41I mean, if it's Bruno, you are for accepting. You say, you know what, he's pulled us through for so many years now. I agree. He's the only one in that squad. If he came out, I think that would have a bit of gravitas to it. You'd go, all right, fair enough. We'll listen to him. Yeah, I need a bit of help. But for him to come out, I mean, like you say, and his argument will be, and a lot of May Night fans who really like him, they'll go, he's a World Cup winner. That's what he'll say. Well, I'm entitled to say this, but I think he's putting it right on the players. You've been a manager, Tim. Is he a World Cup winner?

11:10Well, he was in the squad. Messi won it, really, didn't he? But how would you feel if you were Michael Carrick? Is that taken the... Because Michael's under it right now. I think he's not done him a favour. It hasn't, it hasn't. I think this is the last thing he needs. It just adds more attention. It looks like the players... It feels lawless to me now, Man United. Everyone's getting their parachutes, jumping out the plane. They're like, I don't want any of this. This has nothing to do with me. But this ain't a new thing. This ain't a new thing at Man United. Players have done it in the past. They've talked out against the management.

11:42They've talked out against whatever the circumstances with the condition of the club with Ronaldo, and they've ended out of the club. Romero, Spurs last year. Romero, Spurs got where he wanted, and they ended up gifting him away. How was he cost 35 mil or something stupid like that for a World Cup winner who did actually play? Yeah. The thing is, Tim, I watched a game last night. I actually felt... I did the Tottenham game on Saturday, and they were so bad, honestly. And it was one of those games where it was almost so hard to analyse because I couldn't figure out if Tottenham were really good or just May and I were so bad.

12:19But I looked at them last night and I thought, you know what, their elements are quite light. They had a bit more dynamic. Belaber had a good 60-odd minutes. I thought, this is not a bad performance here. They could have got something out the game and Burma had a couple of chances. And then for this to come out last night, I thought like, it was almost like as he had a chat with Simeone after, he wants me, I could go in, I'll get out of this club. Yeah, it's the sort of quote you'd expect after the Tottenham performance rather than last night. I mean, they still lost the game. They go down to Jorogs, gets yourself sent off.

12:46They go down to 10 men. I thought they were competitive in the game. I agreed with you. I mean, a lot's been made of, is it the structure? Michael will look at himself in the mirror as well. And he's an honest lad. We both know him. And he will say that they could be doing better as well. He took a lot of credit back in the last year, and quite rightly so. Because when you're a manager and you win football matches, you're getting everything right. How does he feel right now, Michael? You've been there. You've stood in that technical area. When you look at him, what's he thinking? He looks tired.

13:15He looks tired. And we've just started the season. He looks like... No, he's the only one who knows. He looks to me like... If they picked up the phone to him today and said, Michael, we're going to give it to someone else, I think he'd be disappointed straight away. But I think he would get over it very quickly. So it'd be almost like a relief off of his shoulders. He looks like he's not enjoying it. And it's an easy thing to say, but you're not winning games, of course you're not enjoying it. and it's horrible. The highs and lows of football management are incredible. And no one really understands it, Jay, until you stood.

13:49Until you stood in that technical area and you realised that all the decision-making is down to you and people are looking at the back of your head and a huge club like Manchester United, one of the biggest clubs in the world, people are saying, well, go and do something. Do something. It's up to you. Now, by Martin, Martin is coming out saying what he's saying, almost relieves a little bit of pressure on Michael and saying, you know what, he hasn't got the tools. The club have not given him the tools to work with, to be able to achieve the goals. What are the goals? What are the goals this season?

14:20To finish in a Champions League spot? You know, they're a million miles away from that. And on the evidence of what I saw last Saturday evening, and it's not a Tottenham bias, I think Tottenham will finish above them this season. I think Tottenham, Hotspur, with De Zerbe, had more of a structure, more of an idea of what they're doing, can't score a goal. Hopefully that goal from Flanke will give them a little bit. Not better players. The only thing that might change that is if Bruno starts playing again, like he has done in the last five or six. Wherever along he's been there, he's been sensational.

14:48But not this season. He's been poor this season. They need him. He's a talisman, Jay. They need him to lift them and take them to where they need to be. Yeah, not go into his shell. But where they need to be is a million miles to where they want to be. I believe where they're going to be. I think they're going to be top half at best with all these games coming up in Europe as well. And that's the hard thing for me. I look at Michael and you know what it's like as English players and the media, it's an English bias. You just want him to do well and you're being softer with him. I genuinely feel sorry for him because I think that he hasn't got that.

15:20I look at that team, that squad, and you know what it's like? How would I set this team up? How can I make sure that we are dynamic enough in there? And obviously a lot, we've been speaking the last few days about that midfield and I did the game, you know, with Maynard and Tielemans and Bruno. No energy in there. Belayba will bring some energy. But you have... You know my feelings. Yeah, I know. and I'm going to come to that in a second. But I still look at that squad. I look at that back four that was pretty much the same back four. I did a Brentford game, I don't know how many years ago now when they lost comfortably and they were bashed up.

15:51I think they had Maguire. I don't know if Harry Maguire played that day, but anyway, Martinez played one of the centre-backs. I think they had Luke Shaw. Can't remember the right word. Nothing's changed. I look at that squad and I'm thinking, well, why are they not bringing enough elite players? This is Manchester United. So I don't care. You can go and get Jurgen Klopp to manage that team. They will struggle with that squad. 100%. They will struggle. And you can go sack Michael Carrick. And you can go, yeah, right. Now we can go and get another manager in. First of all, who's out there? Yeah.

16:16Who's out there? Who are you going to take that's going to be a vast improvement on what you've got? And right now, you're looking it from afar. If you are a manager, of course, you'll always take the May United job. But you're going, look at the state of this. Everyone's having a go. Everyone's got a view. You've got players coming out. There's no camaraderie, no togetherness. And they've got tough games coming up. Got Leeds again the weekend. But where do you see? Because a lot of chat was about this midfield. Yeah. What do you see? Talk about Tillemans and Mainu, and they ain't got the legs to cover in there.

16:42And Santos, definitely. I don't care. You put Steve Overt in there and Sebastian Coe. They ain't covering the ground, what is there to be asked to be covered. The defenders are far too deep. You've got Harry Maguire, bless him. I love him. He's had a wonderful career. He's not a Man United centre-half at the moment. He most affects the game when he comes on as a rescue package up front. They might as well play him up front at the moment. They need that vocal point up there. But they drop so deep, him and Martinez. You've got Luke Shaw who's just happy to serve there, whether it's Dallow on that side.

17:11And then the wide players, like Cunha was playing way out there. And you've got Dallow who was playing so far on the wide. They're not tucking in to help out. Bruno's staying up there as a 10, not coming to thicken them up. So they're on their own in there. And because they're so deep, they cannot get into support of any. In Burmo, there's a false nine who's not staying up there anyway. You can't get out. When you win the ball, you've got so far to go. But when you lose the ball, you've also got to cover that distance, which is too great, unless your centre-halves are up. I've played with centre-halves who want to keep sagging back, and constantly I'm shouting, get up the field, get up the field.

17:46Look, you might get called out once or twice. I think Barcelona, Pep's Barcelona, Puyol and... Mascherano. Mascherano played centre-back for them. They couldn't run, but they played on the halfway line. And occasionally they got done with a ball over the top. But the reason they've done that is because you've got Busquets, Iniesta, Xavi, who can get in contention. They're in and around each other. They can get into the port of the front players. But he's tried Aidan Heaven. He's tried Yoro. Two relatively quick players. They were 2-0 up against Brighton. They ended up losing 3-2. But it comes back to recruitment.

18:15Jim Radcliffe said something when he had an interview with Gary Neville on the overlap. Let's have a look at that clip right now. That tells you a little bit about where they see their recruitment and how it should be done at Manchester United. Management team, then you've got to get the house in order, the financial structure. And then it's all about recruitment after that, isn't it? It's all about, you know, Manchester United in the last, you know, since Alex, Sir Alex retired, spent a billion on players, which is pretty much the same as Manchester City or Liverpool. In fact, Liverpool hasn't spent a billion, but we haven't spent it that well.

18:47So that, at the end of the day, that then becomes the absolutely number one issue for the club is to get recruitment right. But, and that needs data analysis and all that type of stuff, which we haven't got, as you know. but some of the better clubs have. And then I think in three years' time or five years' time, Manchester United will be the most profitable club in the world. It'll have, if we go down this road to the new stadium, it'll have the most iconic stadium in the world and it'll be winning Silverwell. One thing that sticks out to me, we haven't got the data. There are two clubs that I'm so in awe and admire so much, Brentford, great recruitment there.

19:33Phil Giles, Lee Dykes do unbelievably well. Brighton, Tony Bloom, what he's got. And they are third and fourth in the Premier League. Bournemouth are not at the best season, but obviously I'm going to be, I think what they've done, mate. And they will be good. They'll be fine, Bournemouth. But how can Man United not have data? Because they haven't needed it in the past. That's almost arrogance. Yeah, but because they haven't needed it in the past. Because what they've done is, they've gone cherry-picked all the best players from all the other top teams. That's no longer the model. It's a bigger market.

20:01Yeah, exactly. You could buy Rio Fernand, you could buy Rooney, you could go and get the best at the best. What have they done to Tottenham all in years? Just go and say, yeah, we'll have Berber, Tob. Yeah. We'll have Teddy Sheridan back when we want him. We'll have this one, we'll have that one. They can go and cherry pick whoever they wanted. I still think Man Utd have got a pull. They're a huge football club. But if a player has got other options, someone's going to pay him more money and they've got more chances of winning trophies, they're going to struggle to start. I think Harry Kane's a good example of this.

20:31Harry Kane will look for a way back into the Premier League where he can go and break Shearer's record. Will he go to Man United? Not at the moment he won't because he can't see him win anything. Why would he come from Bayern Munich when he's winning trophies now and he's going to sign a new deal. He'll probably stay there for another year and a half and then he'll look for a way back to the Premier League. Would you think he'd go back to Tottenham ahead of Man United right now? At the moment he would. Why would he choose Man United over Tottenham at the moment? He might as well go back where he's lauded, where he's loved.

20:59go and finish his career there at Tottenham. I think if there was an opportunity to go to another club, apart from Arsenal and Chelsea, possibly, because he's never going to go back there, where he feels like he can win something, I think he would choose that club. But at the moment, for them two teams, like I say, I think Tottenham just about will finish above, and they won't be great, Manchester United. But because of the Zerbe, they spent an awful lot of money and they're shocking at the moment, their league position. Still without a win, by the way. So coming from not a very strong argument, really, but I just feel like they're building something.

21:34I think they're in a false position. I think they can go on from there. But when I look at what Man Utd are producing, the only reason they will finish above Tottenham is if Bruno starts pulling his finger out again. And I'll give you one more to that, Belaber. You like him? I like him a lot. But like you said there, and you put that in my mind the weekend with the centre-backs, they've got to be brave. They've got to get up the pit. But he is, I think, such a talented player. You know, we're midfield players. There's certain players you look at, and I know Carlos is 6 '3", left-footed, skilful, fast.

22:09He can beat the press. He can run with the ball. He can tackle. He has everything. One thing that I feel, as long as he gets consistency in his game, I think he can make such a difference. Because he's the complete opposite of what they've got in there. Because they've got three players, talented, no doubt, but can't move, can't run. and now it's a game about athleticism and that's where Carlos Belaide is going to make a big difference. But then you're relying on one player taking them from being that complete mediocrity. Are you saying Tillemans can't run? Are you saying Kobe Maynou, young boy, can't run?

22:40I don't mind them in isolation, but you can't pair them up. You can pair them up with one more. Yeah, but what I don't understand, Tim, when they look to that recruitment at the start of the year, is they know what they've got. What were they thinking? and he's OK. But Chelsea, he wasn't in the Chelsea team, so how can he then get in the Man United team when you've already got Man United? And I think when they're recruitment, what makes you think that's a match? Because it's always you have to have a balance. Like if I played, you know, when I played, Paul Lynch was my midfield player at Liverpool, I probably played the best.

23:10Lynch was dynamic, he'd run forward. That would leave me the space. The best player, who was the best player you played? You played some good midfielders, David Batty. David Batty, Mark Atkins. A lot of people wouldn't even know Mark Atkins. Well, he was such a, he was a thinker. He would know exactly, he could work off of me, I could work off of him. We had good appreciation of each other's game. One thing I will say, if I was Michael Carrick, I'd be showing, I used to do this quite a lot, not only with the teams I've managed, but also with the individual development. I used to watch players and I looked at a lot of their players and I'm saying to many United boys at the moment, I think this is a big, key issue.

23:46You're running quicker towards the opposition goal than you are towards your own goal. Why is that? And we've all been there, Jay, and you would do it yourself, when you're running back towards your own goal, your head's wobbling and all that, you're making out, you're tired. The next minute you get the ball, you're busting into the box and you're running like a sprinter. That's a mindset. When you talked about Incy there, Incy used to run as quick towards his own goal as he did towards the opposition. And I think that was a trait everyone liked. Yeah, exactly. Everyone liked that. Now, I'll be showing them.

24:13All this data they've got now, all this data, they can show them. Just say, show me why you're running quicker towards the opposition goal than you are towards our own goal. Because you get the glory going that way. Is that why you're doing it? Yeah. Well, we need you to protect our own goal as well. Not only the centre-halves, the midfield players are not doing it. They're not doing the ugly side of the game. And if you don't do that, then you never get the cream on top. So Michael right now, he's got a... I'm sure they're off today, the players. He'll be at home thinking about it. Stewing, you've been there.

24:44How does he... What does he go in? And if you're the manager, I'm putting you in Michael Carrick's shoes right now. Will you go in there tomorrow morning and have a meeting about what's been said? Because he didn't come out yesterday afterwards and he didn't say anything, which is probably the right thing to do. I think he plays it very well, doesn't he? He's good with the press. You know, the fans want to hear more, but I think he does the right thing by the club. And possibly at the heat of the moment, I mean, I've been guilty of talking out, you know, when your blood's still boiling and then you just come out and he just comes, you know, and it's the wrong thing to do and you regret it in the end.

25:16I think he's very calm like that. First and foremost, I get Martinez in. I'll talk to him, speak to him, even if he's got the ump or whether he hasn't got the ump. Then he talks to the whole group and he says, I've had a chat with him. Will you drop him? I wouldn't cut my nose off. Who's he going to play? Are you going to bring Harry Maguire back in with Heaven? He's now playing. Where is he? Where is he? And is he good enough anyway? He's deeper than the Titanic as well. Do you know what I mean? I don't think they ain't got centre-halves who are brave enough to play up, but that's the structure.

25:49That is what a manager needs to say. Don't matter if you can run or whether you can't. Play up because it gives your midfield an opportunity to stop it at source. They're not giving that midfield the opportunity. And all we're doing is seeing all that space in and around the midfield, boys, and we're just criticising them. So what would I do? Speak to Martinez, put it to bed as soon as possible, and then get ready for that easy game away at Leeds. So it's an easy game away at Leeds. Then they've got Como away, Cesc Fabregas' team. Then they've got Bournemouth at home. Lovely place. Beautiful. Have a nice break there, couldn't you?

26:19You don't want to play football there at the moment. Beautiful there, Como. Bournemouth at home, which, I mean, on paper at the moment, we look at their predicament. It doesn't look too... But they're the sort of team... Love going there. They've had a great run there. Chelsea away. Chelsea have really picked up some results as well. They're definitely going to score against that back four. And then Roma at home. So these five games, do you think, Michael, Michael, do you think he lasts these five games? I think he lasts the five games. I genuinely believe, unless it's Michael's choice, they will give him until the end of the season.

26:50Tough times for Michael. I feel for him. I really hope he gets through this period. He's going to need a bit of help. But one thing for sure, it's not helping him, is what Martinez has done. It's one of the most selfish acts you could do, I think, as a player, you know, coming out like that. And all the fans go, yeah, it's amazing. I sort of get it because he's a bit of a hero status. Yeah. But it doesn't help anyone. No, I couldn't agree more. Couldn't agree more. As I say, I've done it myself. You have. And how much did you get fined? Weeks wages, I think. Weeks wages, yeah. It didn't go long.

27:16I like to have that money now. You know what, the best thing about it is, now we're in here because we can say you was very strong on Martinez when we first walked in, but when you found out that you actually did it and got fired from it, you quickly changed your tune, didn't you? Do you know what? By the way, I was going to read that out, and you were like coming early, but yeah. I had come in early. You forgot, didn't you? Just tamping it down. But I remember that time at Tottenham. You was desperate to get out. I couldn't even remember doing it. Oh, mate. And then I remember, yes, I did it for a reason, try and get out of the club.

27:42Mate, they probably wanted me out more than I wanted to leave. Oh, no. I remember Glenn. I remember sitting there. I'd only just come to Tottenham at the time, and Glenn liked to go on that leg machine, didn't he? Yeah. And you, being how you are, you used to go and sit on there and stop him doing it, didn't you? No. Yes, you did. I remember. I was thinking, this place is lawless. It's like Man United. No, no, no. He was ahead of your time. No. You can't, mate. He's the God. He is the God at Tottenham. I know you loved him, really.

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31:42That's growtherapy.com slash start now. growtherapy.com slash start now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

32:02This episode is sponsored by Huel. So Tim, I don't know about you at home, but as football fans, we've all got our things we can't do without. But we're in partnership with our sponsorship, Huel. We're bringing you one less thing where Tim and I discuss the one thing we'd like to see removed from football. And we talk about this a lot, don't we, on the golf course. First one up this week. For me, I'll come up with this one, Tim. Post-match apologies on social media. Come on. They've got to go, haven't they? Do you know what I think started it? I might be wrong, but it feels like Eddie Howe and Newcastle going over to the fans.

32:35Everyone will go there and clap them. Lovely. Brilliant. because they were winning every game. But all of a sudden, when you start getting chinned and you've got to go there and you're giving it... Some of that, yeah. Sorry, you know what I mean? Yeah, sorry, it's on me. That's the worst. Even the manager, I remember seeing Hans Postacoglu and I felt sorry for him. And he'd stand there clapping them and they're all coming him off. Do you know why he did that? Why? He didn't want to go down the tunnel because he thought, I'm going to front this out. I'm going to front it up. I remember Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, it was away at Vicarage Road.

33:04I remember it. He went right over. That was his last game. Yeah. And he was over there like that apologising. They were getting some stick. And I remember Bruno behind him giving it, no, it's not him, it's all of us. It's all of us. Yeah, it's like charades, isn't it? Yeah, mate. No, blame me. Blame me. I can take it. I'm strong. I get the fans' point of view because away fans, I don't know what you were like. When Liverpool fans, they'd come in their droves and they'd pay big money. So you've got total respect for them. Of course you want to acknowledge them. And there's nothing worse when you've lost and you're sending them home feeling as badly as what they do.

33:36But that, as a manager, like I think now, if you started again as a manager, or I did, I think you've just got a set of precedent where you just don't do it at all. Of course, you love them. They're your fans. That's not going to change. But what difference does it make you going over there and clapping them? Because when you lose, when you're going for a bad spell, it's awful, right? You have no future in it. Especially, I always do, I was consistent with that. I would always clap from where I was and just walk down the tunnel. Win or lose. So I know exactly where I am. What about a little social media apology?

34:05I like them as well like you know when they do that well I'm really sorry today we was rubbish you know what I mean well I apologise for the performance performance yeah what players or manager or both players like to do that one would you do that if you was a player now Newcastle manager the Isler did it the other night didn't he in his commentary you know come out and apologise to the fans they almost expect it now the fans I mean but the only way it's got any carries any weight is if they perform better when the next time they're out there so yeah I'm not I'm not keen on it. I really am not.

34:36Right, Tim. So shall we lose that sort of post-match sorry that's always become inevitable in football now? Yeah, gone. Gone? Yeah, gone. Out. What, yellow card? Red. Red, Kev. One game ban. I like it. The verdict's in. The post-match apology is gone. But one thing I'm not apologising for is having one less thing to think about it when it comes to my nutrition. Huel is a complete meal in a bottle. High in protein, high in fibre, with all essential vitamins and minerals. Save£10 on your first order with the code OVERLAP at checkout. Just go to Huel.com slash Overlap daily.

35:18Champions League, Tim. Arsenal had a great result yesterday. Yeah. Really good. Looks strong. Professional. Professional. Clinical. Saka important as well. Still not score from a set piece. No. It's funny that, right? Under pressure, isn't he? A little set piece guy. Yeah. I know. I mean, every time we take a free kick or corner, if I'm Mikel, I'm looking at him, giving it. What's happening? I know, yeah. But he's giving the old Homer Simpson, hasn't he, into the bush? I ain't seen him. Yeah. I'm not seeing him in the technical area. I know. So, Liverpool away to Lask. Villa at home to Fenerbahce, whilst Man City hosts PSG.

35:49Lots been said this week about humility of Man City and Maresca. I ain't heard City mention much. Oh, I know, yeah. It's getting... Is it getting to that point yet? it is really but it is the news jay everyone wants to hear about of course they do and i want to i want to hear your view on it as well i've got mine but i want to talk about maresca yeah because he i felt you know i put myself in their shoes and the manager's shoes right right now you're in that dress room in that club whether you like it or not whether you you think we are guilty whatever as a player at man city and as a manager and a coaching staff new manager new players coming in I'm going to see his mentality all day long.

36:26We've got to Anfield 1-3-0. I don't look at you and go, we've not won. Oh, yeah, because of what's happened with the rules. We're there, I would be, let's have this. And I'll be celebrating bigger and bolder than ever. What's your thoughts? Because he took a bit of stick for that. I think that's a bit unfair. Yeah, I think he can only control the controllables and he can't control what's happening in the courtroom. All he can do is prepare the team. He's done a wonderful job, by the way. Taking over from one of the best managers we've ever seen. Ever. And gone in there and it's seamless. He's lost Rodri, he was like a talisman.

36:57Bernardo Silva, Elliot Anderson's been great. I think they've signed some fantastic players, of course they have, down the years as well.

37:13But no, you can only give them credit. And the players can only do what they can do. It's not their fault. No, of course not. It's not their fault, it's not their manager's fault, it's certainly not the fans' fault. Well, it's going to be a huge mess, isn't it? Yeah, but this is what he said. He said, criticised for what? We won 0-3 at Anfield. What do you want us to do? And even if it was 1-0, it was exactly the same. We work every day to win games. It's the only thing we can be focused on. We were so, so happy inside the pitch, and you cannot imagine inside the changing room. And it will be like that, and it has to be like that.

37:44Because the guilty verdict is the guilty verdict, but they're still right in the mix to win this Premier League title. Yeah, they're a real threat. Real threat. The more I see of them, the more I fancy them. Really? I'm still Arsenal all day. I'm still Arsenal, but I just think I'd never give them a chance. You know, without losing them players, having to bet in new players, the Guardiola factor, I didn't give them much of a chance. But I'm not sure. Who else is there? Chelsea? There's only two runners. Possibly? Two runners. I don't know. Chelsea, I still think they're not quite right at the back.

38:16The one player I want to mention is Elliot Anderson, Tim. I said at the start of the year, I was at the first game when they played Crystal Palace. And when he was talking about his price tag, I said 100 million. Well, if he's 100 million, Jude Bellingham's got to be worth 300 million. And I still believe that because he is just unique. But Elliot Anderson, I knew he was really good. But I look at that when you see him and you think Declan Rice, Jude Bellingham, that midfield for England going forward, he has been an absolute revelation. Imagine taking him from Rodri, the best defensive midfield player in the last 10 years of football, and he's just made it look easy.

38:48I agree. You know why I like him so much? because he's not a pigeon-told midfield player. He's not a six, he's not a ten, not an eight. He's all of it. Same as Declan Rice. They can do everything. You know, you've got to see him in academies now. You would have seen it with your boy where, oh, he's a CDM. He's a CDM. He's an eight, ten, yeah. Or he's a ten, or he's an eight, or he can only do that, can he? Yeah. Why don't you cheat him and do everything? Yeah, exactly. Because we will come back to that time when there's only two in midfield. And he can tackle and all to him, can't he? He gets about it.

39:16He's energy. He's a throwback almost as well, isn't he? Yeah. He's like a deep-sea diver and his lungs are absolutely incredible. I just think he gets up and down. He's got a range of passing. Roger is obviously a better game controller than him, but he does a lot of good stuff what Roger can't do. I mean, his energy getting around the pitch. We talked about that wide open space for Man United. I mean, even Elliot Anderson would struggle with Man United's team and the way they defend and how deep they are. He made a good decision going there. 100%. I don't know about that one, actually. I did make a good decision.

39:48We will see. At the time. At the time. But, Tim, I want to say, I want to talk to you about your Blackburn team for a second. Now, you had Jack Walker. Yeah. Did an unbelievable job. You bought the best players. I remember buying you as a young player, bought Alan Shearer, what, three and a half million? I would argue it a bit. We weren't the best players. I was in and out of the team at Norwich. Yeah, good recruit. Yeah, but Alan Wright, he came from Blackpool, did he? You got Alan Shearer, was the next best thing. And Chris Sutton, I'd have to give you that one as well. Colin Hendrick. Colin Hendrick from Man City in a league below.

40:21You've got Wilcox, who was through the academy. You've got Ripley from Middlesbrough. I mean, weren't exactly superstars, like cherry-picking the superstars. They were development players, good players, who developed into a team. And you're Jed Kenny. But the question I was going to ask you, Tim, when you look at Blackburn, or you look at your Blackburn side, and you look at Man City, and obviously a lot's been said. Yeah. You know, Michael Richards was quite strong in it the weekend, you know, and they were saying that if like City, as it stands, are guilty. If they lose the appeal, what will what will that do to to those league titles?

40:54And how would you feel if if you found out in your Blackburn period that you'd been cooking the books, whatever way you look at it and you and you were found guilty? Well, I'd lived a moment, so I've enjoyed that. I would hate the fact that it was going to be stripped from the history books because I think inevitably that's what's going to happen. I think the seasons where they have cheated, want of a better word, they're going to have to be, them years are going to have to be taken off that trophy. Take it off. Take it off the trophy. and I quite like the fact, Jay, that when I'm introduced and I'm doing TV shows now or whatever I'm doing, that it says Premier League winner.

41:41I know you've got it on your golf bag as well, haven't you? Yeah, I've got it pretty much everywhere. A bit strong, yeah, a bit strong. You do, yeah. I quite like it. I bet you do. You know, I quite like it. I want to say I'd give, that's a good point. Would I give an everything? Because that's what they've given, everything, and it's going to come at such a cost. And I look at my career, I think, what would I give if I'd win a lead title? And I just, as I said, I said, I'll give anything. And anything that's come at a cost where they've been, as you say, they've been... What about, I'll give you a scenario.

42:09Go on. Two years, you're still playing. Two years ago, Man City come to you. There's obviously a little bit of noise around. Maybe they've been bending the rules. Yeah. They've offered you the opportunity to go there. There's a good chance they might win something. You're going to go there? Yeah. You're going there? All day long. Are you going to ask them at the time, what are these charges hanging over your head? Is this going to be a problem for us? Are you asking them? Yeah, and even if they say, well, we don't know, I say, just don't get caught. Just don't get caught. Yeah, I just want to win.

42:43Just want to win. You would do it? Yeah, I think I'd go there. And that's me. Everyone's different. Everyone's got a view. I respect so many players and people who have had their view. Roy Keane said he would throw those medals away. No problem. I totally get that. Roy has won everything in the game. For me that didn't win a Premier League title, or if I felt that, yeah, there might be a chance that something might come out. Obviously, they wouldn't even ask you that question because they're telling every player that that's not the case. Yeah. Yeah, I'd do anything to him. Yeah, I would. Because I know this isn't me cheating.

43:11I'm not sticking, I'm not putting, you know, steroids into my arm to make me run quicker. I'm not like Lance Armstrong that's cheating for his team to win. This is something that's upstairs. I know that I've given everything to win those trophies. And I think that's going to be the hardest thing for all of those boys to accept. because the effort they're putting and the amount of times and I've gone there and after a game when they've won the title and you're going, look at the players, how good they've been. That's going to be the hard bit. Like you said, if someone took that away from you, it's heartbreaking, isn't it?

43:38So you've gone there for a couple of years, you've won the titles. Now they're fighting the appeal. So they're going very well this season. They lose the appeal, right? We can only guess what the punishments might be. But the deduction of points looks inevitable. so it's impossible for them to win over the next couple of seasons. Yeah. Best case. Are you looking for a way out now? I'd like to think no. I'd like to think no. It's a funny, it's a good question. What's keeping you there, 500 grand a week? Maybe 800. If I'm Harland, if I'm Harland, right, and I sat down with my two sons, a mate of mine and his son, we all sat and talked about this exact subject.

44:20Would you stay, if you're Harland and they got relegated to League One, would you stay? And everyone, no, no, I'll be gone. I was like, I'd like to think, I don't know, something about him that he would stay. But that's just maybe me being absolutely like a bit of a dreamer. I would like to see someone do it. Because, you know, he's, well, again, I say he's won everything. We don't know if he has won everything yet. But you'd like to think that there would be some kind of respect for what they've done for you. Because as much as he's, I've heard people say, the owners, I would never speak to them again.

44:55The owners, as badly as what they've done, they've also done, like, they've changed these players' lives, a lot of them. They've paid them so much money, vast amounts of money, that they could only dream of. They've done so much good work for the infrastructure of Manchester, which, if they get rid of the owners, what's going to happen to that area, where they've built up so much and done an incredible job? That academy now, all the academy, where there's players, young players, as we know, Tim, 17, 18 years of age, on 40 grand a week. Who's going to pay that? So somehow, everything's going to get ripped up and other clubs will just...

45:25Don't get going. Other clubs will just come and hoover that up. But, like, my question would be to them is like, why? Like, we could have won a couple of titles anyway. Yeah. We've got the best manager. We've got the best... But why did we have to do this? Why did we have to stretch it so far to have four full-backs instead of two or three? Like, just unbelievable the arrogance. It just looked so obvious from the outside, didn't it? Yeah, we all knew it. didn't we? We thought we did. Yeah. We thought all of a sudden... If it wasn't for this guy, if it wasn't for the guy with the emails... Rui Pinto.

45:58Rui Pinto. Rui Pinto. We'd still be probably going and what a great team. What worries me, is that not going to be the case moving forward as well? Unless there's another one of these guys sitting on his computer at home in his bedroom, you know, who taps into someone else's personal information at different clubs, are the Premier League ever going to find out? The other thing is, Tim, it is a question of you. Get rid of it. But the Premier League. Everton have been found guilty. Chelsea have had a problem as well. Nottingham Forest. Would there be a few other clubs thinking, actually, not to that level, but it's all relative.

46:30If you're state-owned, you would probably do it for a billion. If you're a very wealthy club, you maybe do it for 100 million or 50 million. All relative, yeah. So do you think that City are maybe thinking, hold on, this is a little bit unfair, because everyone else is probably just trying to add a little bit on their sponsorship deals. I think if they can smell that anyone else has bent the rules as well, I think their lawyers will be all over them clubs. And they will say to the Premier League, if the sanction means deduction of points or whatever the punishment's going to be, I think they will take some evidence what they can find from other clubs and say, you need to have a look at that as well.

47:04So I think there'll be a lot of teams out there who might be a little bit worried. Yeah, and the thing is, it's all fun and games right now. We're all going, yep, send them down, do this, get rid of it. The truth is, it's so sad because what's going to happen now is we're going to have, I'm sure, a lot of incredible players that have been so good in the Premier League leaving, going to another country, maybe going to Spain. And if it does happen, that's a travesty for the game. That's the disappointment of all of this. But we're not saying they should not get punished. Of course you've got to get punished.

47:36They have to. Absolutely, Tim. And the fine is not inadequate. What's a fine going to do to them? Nothing. They've got more money than God. One thing that I don't like that I keep hearing, which would be the worst thing for the integrity of the Premier League, is if every year we go like, they start with a 15-point deduction every year. What is that? That makes a mockery of the league. It makes a mockery of it. You can't have that. Does it make a mockery of the league if in May they get handed that Premier League trophy? Yeah. Needs to be sorted now. Needs to be sorted. I think that's what everyone wants, I think.

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51:07So Liverpool, what have you made their start so far, Tim? Average. Average start. I think they obviously lost a few players, haven't they? Isak looked like he was going back to something, what we've seen at Newcastle, picked up an injury. Eketike was a good signing for them, one of the successes. Wurtz has just been non-existent. He looks like he's getting worse. If he was an academy player, you'd never see him again after the chances he's been given. I think he's played 60 games now, Jay. 60 games of football. You know, when? How long are we going to wait for him? I agree. I agree. I have a little bit of sympathy for him because I think I don't want to get too deep and morbid into it, but I think when he comes, he signs for the team when they'd obviously had a terrible situation where they'd lost one of their players, one of their teammates, someone that they absolutely love.

52:03So that's a tough place to come into because you've won the Premier League, but how do you celebrate that with obviously what happened with Diogo Jota? He then comes in, Eketike, Isak gets injured, that Ekotike does okay to start. So he's trying to find rhythm in the game. He hasn't really had the wingers with the pace that he wants. Salah's not the Salah that we all knew. You know, he got Rio one side. Hasn't really hit the ground running because I remember seeing him at Leverkusen and just thought, what a wonderful player. Like, unbelievable. Right now, I look at him, he's trying too hard. He's running after every single ball.

52:41He almost needs to stand still sometimes. He just needs to stand still, wait for the ball to come to him. because I feel that he is so desperate. He's obviously a good type because he's not hiding. But there was a moment in the first half against Manchester City when the ball comes into him. It's a great pass. I think Jacquet played it into him. And he takes it. He wants to take it on the half turn. It bounces off him. And I looked at it and I thought, wow. When you see him play in Germany or when you see him playing ever really, that doesn't happen. His confidence is on the floor. So how do you get that out of him now?

53:17You wouldn't take him out of the firing line. If you was him, you'd want to play yourself through it. Play through it, but is that sometimes the best thing? I think you have to let him play through it. Is it a detriment of the side? Possibly, in the end. Especially when their players get back. But Kylo ain't set the world alight, but I think you have to give him a little bit of grace because he's only just come to the Leeds and he played five or six games. Gakpo, I like. I really like him. I think he's a goal threat. He's out as well at the moment. Znobislai is a huge miss for him I think he will get it right Iriola he was a slow spurner at Bournemouth I remember people saying why why have we changed the manager they got a last minute win against Burnley team I think you will get it I think Kirkus has responded under him going back there I think he's been a lot better Fringpons has been a disaster since he's been at the club I'm not sure what he is he certainly ain't a centre Virgil needs to turn up all of a sudden if your new players ain't doing it you need your experienced players your leaders the proven winners, to stand up and do a little bit extra and try and help him out.

54:16But Wurtz is a head-scratcher, really, really is. I think there's a lot of players who come from foreign countries and never, ever crack it in the Premier League. And he just might be one of them, James. But that's the key for Andoni, is he's got to get Barcola and Wurtz flying. He's got to find a way of getting those two players in tandem. Because if you are Wurtz, I'm as a 10, and I'm receiving on that half turn, and I see Bradley Barcola running, he's quick as lightning. He hasn't showed us he can run yet. Yeah. He's got to show us he can run. He's got to run in beyond full-backs all the time.

54:45Ask that question. At the moment, he wants it to feed. He wants to show how good he is. His main strengths are running. And I know it's difficult because teams sit back against Liverpool. Yeah. But that's what we've got to see. But they've got to pass the ball forward quicker. Absolutely. But that's why I feel a bit sorry for him. Because I don't think that he's getting the movement. I think Isak found a bit of rhythm. Then he gets injured again. You know, he scored two against Ipswich. I think, I still think he's going to be all right, Wurtz. Yeah. But all right is not necessarily always good enough, is it?

55:08The midfield needs to step up. McAllister's not really been doing it. Graven Birch was a little bit better against City. Gets himself sent off. I just think they need an Adam Wharton. Someone who just spins it around the corner first time. Feeds the assistor as quickly as possible. Passes the time over. I think someone like that is a different characteristic of what they have in that midfield area. I think they need it.

55:34Tim, we're back with another Primetime Play special. brought to you by Sky Vegas. As you know, Sky Vegas is a destination for entertainment. So it's only right we have what everyone's talking about at the moment, the traitors. You a traitors fan? No. Oh, mate. As you know, I'm telling the truth. Oh, you don't. You might be a traitor. You might be a traitor. But we've got no shortage of drama over in the castle right now. I got asked to do it this series. Did you? Yeah, I did. Why didn't you do it? Because I was a bit nervous, because I thought people might see the real side of me. They might see that I'm not actually a nice fella.

56:06No, they know you're horrible. They might think you're nice. Yeah, they won't know, will they? Because I'm trading. But Romesh is doing it. Yeah. And they actually said to me, there's a couple of mates of yours that are doing it, Romesh and Rob Beckett. Maya. Yeah, Maya Jammer's doing it. Ross Kemp. Ross Kemp. He's funny. He's good, isn't he? He's funny. You know Ross, don't you? I know Ross, yeah. How do you know him? My mum used to run the bar at ATV Studios where it used to do EastEnders. Right. And he's obviously a big football fan and he's talked to her a lot about my career coming forward.

56:35I spent a few days with him. He's a good lad. Yeah. Good lad. He was funny at the World Cup with his little tweets. Ah, he's amazing. Amazing. I was contacting him about them tweets. He was loving it. He was just giving it, yeah, he's so passionate. I mean, that's not an act. You know, you see some people are going there just trying to get people to, whatever you call them, clicks or whatever that nonsense is. He had no interest in that. It was just passion. Just coming from the heart, you know. I mean, he's a bit paranoid on there, apparently. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. You've been in the toughest prisons in the world.

57:07Toughest prisons. How long was he in there for? Did he do a spell? He looked like it. But Tim, so Traitors, I've watched it. I love it. Start, watch the Alan Carr one. That's unbelievable. Even though you know that he's right. I know, I knew he went into the whole world. It's so good. He's unbelievable. You know his dad was a scout. I know, exactly, yeah. You know what it's like about your traitors and your faithfuls. You understand that bit? Yeah. So you pick three traitors or however many because they can change that game. Who would you rather be, a traitor or faithful? Traitor. Got to be a traitor, haven't you?

57:41Yeah. Better, isn't it? I think so. Yeah. I think so. It's more natural to me. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, Glenn Oddle said that. What about if we could name some traitors in football, who would you go for? Who would be the number one traitor in Premier League history? Easy. Go on. Easy. Sol. A big Sol. Sol Campbell. Yeah, what he did. Were you there with him? Yeah, I was there there. So you wouldn't have done that. You wouldn't have done that, would you? People say, no. Of course you would. People say, do you remember where you were, the day you were at Seoul? It was like, wow. Oh, you didn't, not even told anyone?

58:16Never told anyone. That was great. That's the way it was in, wasn't it? Of course it. How you doing, Seoul? Chilling. That was in, just chilling. Just chilling. Great, I loved Seoul. That was good. That was a big moment, wasn't it? I remember, I was up in Liverpool when it came on. Jay, you can leave the club. You can leave. It was Bayern Munich, AC Milan. They were talking about maybe Barcelona. You can't go over the road. You can't go over the road for nothing. I mean, if you're a fan, you can't believe that could ever happen to you. But he did. There's an argument to say it was a good decision, though, isn't it?

58:46Do you reckon he regrets that? When he was an invincible? No, I don't think he does. And he's playing on it now. Great player, Sal. Great player. So, number one trainer. Where are they now? Where are the centre-halves now? We're talking about Man United with the centre-halves. Where's Sol Campbell's? What would Sol Campbell be worth? Oh, incredible. Incredible. What would be Ledley King? How good was he? Yeah. Jonathan Woodgate, who's at Man United. He could play now, I think. Would he? Yeah. Yeah, it's amazing, isn't it? They all want the ball and play nice. They are hard to find. I mean, centre-forwards and centre-backs, two hardest positions to find.

59:18So Sol Campbell, number one traitor. Good lad, though. That's it for now. We will see you soon for some more primetime play with Sky Vegas, Tim.

59:30What about team talks, Tim? There's been a little bit about team talks this week. Did you see Morgan Rodgers when he said the reason why we're doing so well, the reason why we started so well is because of the manager, Javi Alonso, giving us that real spark to go out. How important were team talks for you? Give us your best team talks. Yeah. On that one, Javi, don't strike me as someone who's going to get to Churchill before they go out and send them out, like, you know, taking the doors off the hinges. Team talks, I remember one. I remember one, and this weren't, I'm not sure if this is even funny.

1:00:04It's funny to me, and it might be funny to people, but it's not a big game. I was, at a time, left out of the team at Tottenham. Right. I, not so long ago, won the Premier League at Blackburn, and I was asked to play in the reserves at Stevenage. Colin Calderwood, who was my teammate, took over the reserve team. and we played against Coventry and I was an absolute disgrace in the first half just walking around, not trying, not trying a leg just really despondent, feel sorry for myself as we come off at half time I pull Colin as we're going in the tunnel and I say, Cole, come here I said, when are we getting there?

1:00:43Fuck, rip into me I said, no, no, you don't want to be here mate and all that, no, no, you have to I said, you have to because all these kids there are looking you're going to get a lot of credibility if you do that it's not good enough what I did So he walks in there and sits down. He comes up to me and he goes, big time Charlie. I was thinking, all right? He goes, sit down. To you. Yeah? Yeah. That is a disgrace what you're showing me out there. Disgrace. What do you think that's doing you any favours? Do you think that's doing these kids any favours? I thought you was an experienced player.

1:01:18I thought you was an example. I thought you was going to be a leader. I always give eye contact to my managers. I felt it was really important. I had to take my eyes off of him. I had to look down because I was going to laugh. Too cringe. I thought I couldn't laugh. He was not holding back, Jay. He was giving it to me. He was giving it to you. He was giving it to me. You're a disgrace. You fucking... And all the kit men are there and all the physios are all looking going, wow, he's... That's a bit strong. He's like, cold, not too strong. Let everyone go out. The bell goes. Team goes out. I'm in there with him.

1:01:49I'm going, fucking hell, son. Give him the old back there, did you? A bit too strong. I don't. No, it's a good... I like team talks of... It's a funny thing because you don't get like... How many times in your career can you remember a team talk? I mean, I don't remember a team talk from a manager as much. Like, obviously, I had, say, Kenny or my dad, Terry Venables. George Graham was very, very good. You know, half-time, he was the best. You knew when you were in trouble because George would come in Jacket's coming off as you're going down the tunnel. Is that where you got the gilet from? And then he was like this, rolling his sleeves up.

1:02:27Oh, really? And he'd hang the coat up, and then you're getting it. George was brilliant, like from the heart. He was tough on me as well. He was absolutely fantastic. My favourite moment from a half-time would be Euro 96. We're playing Scotland. I'm just walking onto the pitch with half-time. We weren't doing great. Terry Venables comes up to me and goes, you're going on. so I get warmed up and I'm flying. You know that feeling, Tim? Nil-nil, perfect time to come on. So I do a little warm-up and I go down into the... I remember the old Wembley like that, weren't it, the slopes? I'm flying down and my feet didn't even touch the floor.

1:03:03And as I get into the dressing room, we was in the away dressing room because we obviously lost a toss or whatever it was. So Scotland were in the home, we were in the away. As I walk in, Tony Adams is on the bench. He had a knee problem in that Euros and Dr. Crane, remember Dr. Crane? Like, what character? He's got an injection, like a needle. I'm not even joking. Like, that big going into his knee. And as I walk in, I'm, like, so excited I'm coming on. And I just looked at Tony and he just goes into this, like, it weren't, like, anything tactical, technical. This is our house. This is it. This is your own life.

1:03:38We're making fools. Let's go and have it. And it was, like, honestly, like, the opposite of Braveheart. But, like, you know, when you're sitting there and it was just, like, the most unbelievable, like, speech. because Tony, you know what Tony was saying? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Unbelievable player. And we just want, you know, after he'd finished, that was it, last thing that was said. Like, Terry ain't got to say anything after that. His work was done. Just went out there and obviously, it was the best feeling ever. But what a speech, what a man. But the way he was doing it as he's getting this big injection into his knee.

1:04:06I remember we was in Burnham Beaches and Kevin Keegan was the manager and Arthur Cox and I think it was Derek Fazakley. Right. And we'd just finished eating. It was on a Friday night. I think it was playing on a Saturday, yeah. I was in that squad. And as I walk out of the dining room, Kevin was like, Tim, come over. So I thought, he must want me to tell him a joke or something. Tell him whatever. He's a great lad, wasn't he? Yeah, brilliant. Fantastic guy, Kevin Keegan. And I walk across and he gives it to me, how are you feeling? I said, oh, I'm good. I'm good, Gaffer. Yeah, no problem. He goes, are you going to play tomorrow?

1:04:44Right. I said, all right, great. He goes, yeah. he said everyone's injured we've got no one else I was like I was like really what he goes but he's injured better bones yeah no one else you know everyone's injured so where are you going to play tomorrow I was like alright great yeah can I go now I was like Jesus he had a reputation to be didn't he that manager who bigged you up like Jesus don't open the door I'm going under it oh don't Yeah, that was it. He had that, Kevin. Right, team, I want to talk about another team close to your heart, Tim. Tottenham, have they turned the corner? Does it feel like it?

1:05:25I think it was a very good performance. It was good, yeah. At Old Trafford. They deserved a lot more than the draw they got. They just need to find the goals, and hopefully that goal late on there from Dominic will hopefully give them some confidence to kick on. Can't do nothing in the market. You know, they spent£400 million, they can't score a goal. So their recruitment has not been fantastic, but I think he's a very good manager, I really do. And I think he's coping with it really well, Jay. I mean, any other manager, you go in there, you do what you did last season, and you start the season like you have, and you spent£400 million, you're struggling to keep your job.

1:05:59Yeah. If that was me going in there last season and keeping them up like I would have done, right, and then I started the season like I have deserved it, I'd be gone. I'd be gone. But I think it's absolutely right to keep hold of him. I believe in him. I really do. And I just think they're in a false position. Yeah. and they will get better. And Kulichewski, there's rumours that he's back on the training pitch. That's good, right? Yeah. I'm a big fan of him. 17 months. I mean, it's a long time now. I worry about him, Tim. I could talk one thing up. Unfortunately, I know that feeling of injuries.

1:06:28I remember my knee. I had problems with it at Tottenham, and then it felt all right for a little while. Then he got an injury. Then he had another operation. Then he had something else. Was yours a patella like him? No, mine was sort of like I had my meniscus taken out when I was 18. His was like Arjen Hargreaves' one, the patella tendon. Yeah, which is horrendous. and he's a powerful boy and a big lump as well. I think the bigger you are, sometimes the worse it is because you're carrying that extra weight. I just want to see him back playing because he's one of my favourite players, not just at Tottenham, but in the Premier League.

1:06:56So fingers crossed he comes back because he'll give them another dimension in that midfield because that's what they're really short of is a dynamic 10 or even if he plays off the right, he can cut in. He's just a special player. Well, what they haven't got is a world-class player. No. I always think the Tottenham, because of Harry Kane and Son, they've had a little bit of hierarchy over the years with a player. If they're missing, you're going to miss them. You could take anyone out of their team at the moment. They're all similar. That's the only problem. They're all decent players. They look like they've done it for other clubs.

1:07:23They've yet to do it for Tottenham. But there's no hierarchy. Where did they finish this year, Tottenham? And were they finished above Man United? Do you genuinely mean that? I genuinely believe, on the evidence of what I've seen, I'm not sure, because Man United have got the extra games. I'm not sure they're going to be able to cope with that. I think Tottenham will finish eighth. And in around 8th, you know? So that means Man United are going to finish 9th. But the only change will be if Bruno gets his finger out, he's the world-class player. He is the difference maker. Bruno genuinely could play for most teams in the Premier League.

1:07:59I agree. Tim, brilliant. I enjoyed that, mate. That's our first overlap. Hopefully not at last. Is that it? That's it. Mate, no wonder I'm doing it by nothing. I know. Me too. Have some more heel.

1:08:19This has been a Global and the Overlap production.

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1:10:13Thanks to our title sponsors, Skybet and SkyVegas. We'll see you next time. This has been a Global and the Overlap production.