Liverpool Parade Incident, Bruno’s Future, Champions League Final & Maddison vs Rory! | The Overlap Fan Debate

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2:27Collectively, as a fan base, we'll probably riot. Has he done enough yet to go all in on him? If he is happy for anybody to go, then that's fine by me. You can't run a team by just spending a billion. And you'll say... I think you'd have. That's exactly what you've done. London's first, London's second, London's out. Can we just keep this about Arsenal then?

2:54Hello and welcome back to the Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet Paul Scholes is with me once again and I'm sure you are aware of the tragic events that happened in Liverpool around Liverpool's Trophy Parade everybody here at the overlap just want to send their best wishes to everybody involved and hopefully, fingers crossed, everybody is OK and Gareth, I want to come to you to start with You were at the parade. Just explain the day for you, how it was for you personally. Yeah, I mean, obviously it was, you know, it's a day of celebration, a day of joy, and I was fortunate enough to be in a position on a balcony, on a roof.

3:32I was doing some stuff for LFC TV. But my son was there as well. He was with his mates. He's just coming up to being 17 years old and didn't want to hang around with his dad, which is fair enough. So, yeah, the day unfolds. our unfolds it was absolutely brilliant got a fantastic view of when the parade come onto the Strand in Liverpool you know fireworks going off from the the Liver building it looked fantastic it sounded fantastic there was a big rendition of You'll Never Walk Alone you know Virgil van Dijk looked like a film star you could see the cup it was you know it was everything that you wanted it to be apart from the weather at that point and then you know when it was sort of time to go then and go and find a pub and have a little drink and see your mates and that kind of thing, very quickly it became apparent something was going on because I turned on to Dale Street, which obviously you'll know is right by Water Street where the incident happened.

4:28And as we got about a few hundred yards down Dale Street, a lot of police started running on foot past us and screaming at us to get onto pavements because a lot of people were in the street because it's a huge weight of numbers in the city. I mean I've been to a lot of parades over the years and that's the most I've ever seen on the street to Liverpool and so by the time we got to the pub at the end of Dale Street people were starting to come in and say there'd be an incident that something had happened, something involved in a car and obviously immediately you start to fear the worst and my first move was to try and get hold of my son because I knew he was round and about, just didn't know where he was couldn't get hold of him, there was no signal in the city because of the amount of people there so kept trying, sending messages, ringing home ringing his mum, whatever eventually got hold of his mum but she couldn't get hold of him either turned out later on that he'd just gone from there to the station and then he was underground so obviously no signal there but when he eventually got hold of him he'd been right there, he'd seen it one of his mates who was at the front of their group spotted the car coming towards them and pushed one of his mates out the way and my lad says pretty much saved his life because he was right in the path of it.

5:49Then, you know, all of that group obviously all sort of take a step back and he said it was right there. He said he's seen people go under the car, seeing the driver get pulled out of the car. He's all right, thankfully. And, you know, he knows, unfortunately, some of the lads who were injured. He knows two lads with broken legs. He knows another lad who went underneath the car but is OK. He's also the brother of my daughter's best mate. So it's all incredibly close to home. And obviously, I was quite shocked to realise he was that close. And you can't help thinking what could have been, and it could have been a lot worse.

6:30So very thankful that he's OK. I think collectively as well, we're all very thankful that the whole thing wasn't worse you know it's it easily could have been um you know it's a it's a there for the grace of god thing really with people going underneath a car and somehow being being okay so yeah it it changed the mood massively obviously i think a lot of people at that point once they knew what had gone on wanted to get out of the city as soon as possible um that then presented a huge logistical problem and we've all seen about you know the huge queues at the stations and things like that. I mean, I think there's probably some questions around organisation from what I've heard at stations and things like that.

7:12But, you know, look, all of this is going to come out, isn't it? There will be a review. You know, the fella responsible, or who we believe is responsible, is with the police where he should be. And we'll find out more about it as time goes on. I'm kind of at a place with it now, knowing that my son's okay, his friends are okay, and everyone it looks like will make a recovery where I kind of think we need to sort of reclaim the day a little bit now. So I put something out myself on my socials yesterday, just saying it didn't feel right the day after to sort of share videos and pictures and everything from the parade.

7:46But I think from here on in, we should. We should remember the joyous bit of the day and not the bit that was spoilt at the end. And like I say, you know, it could have been so much worse. So that's going to be what my memories are or what I'm going to try and make them be. the good bit, the bit where I was well enough because Liverpool had won the league the bit where I could see Virgil van Dijk with the Premier League trophy the bit where I could see the strand packed with people enjoying themselves that's the bit I want to try and remember rather than what could have been thankfully a team's my son and his friends who I obviously know, they're very resilient and from what I've seen they're sort of shrugging it off already and they're just like, we're alright, it's ok don't worry about us type of thing Hopefully that is how it unfolds from here on in.

8:32But yeah, as I say, it could have been a whole lot worse. Yeah, it could have been. I was watching on TV and my daughter phoned me. She wasn't there. She just said, I've heard something about a car in here. You don't know if someone, you know, sometimes a rumour can start about something and then the video started coming through. But as you said, Gareth, it could have been a whole lot worse. And as we know the area so well, the worst thing about Water Street, it's such a wide street that you know that's the street that everyone would walk from the parade up because it's not like a normal, I mean, it's almost like four lanes really, isn't it, in terms of a street, so it was a nightmare in terms of the people walking up against me.

9:07As I said, it could have been an awful lot worse. But at times like this, I think every city comes together, don't they? But I mean, have you heard about different things of people coming together? Obviously, you said you've got mates involved. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of that, wasn't there? I mean, I've heard all kinds of stories and lots of stuff on social media and stuff from friends, et cetera, that, you know, there are a lot of people who have obviously come from far afield, wanted to see it. I think the numbers were as high as they were because people knew for a long time we'd won the league.

9:36Obviously, we won it early, but also it looked likely for a long time as well. I think you add to that that we couldn't celebrate the previous league title properly. And so a lot of people, I think, decided, right, this time I'm going to be there, this time I'm going to see it. And it almost felt like a sort of double celebration a little bit. And then it's a bank holiday and all the rest of it. So I think a lot of people come in from far afield and, as I said, they all wanted to get back out again pretty quickly when what unfolded happened because I think they feared it could be something else.

10:05The city did seem to briefly go on lockdown from what I could see and there's lots and lots of police coming into the city because maybe they thought it was something else. From what I heard, a lot of people couldn't get home, were stranded essentially. people started to sort of mobilise give people lifts home saying to them I don't want money for petrol just make a donation to the food bank or whatever I read about people with minibus companies and things like that coming into the city picking people up, taking them to wherever they needed to go, coming back again doing the same thing people providing warmth pubs inviting people in and saying use the wifi so you can contact people and get hold of them and tell them you're alright so yeah as ever Liverpool as a community came together the people reacted in the right way anyone who's from there or around there knows that that's what happens that's how it works and that's how we are as a group of people so that bit was no surprise really

11:10Let's crack on with the looking at some of the faces here we need to know or we certainly know who the winners and the losers are I'm looking at that second row there Flav talk to me I mean I said there was no chance Spurs could win a final against Manchester United I didn't think you'd have the mentality to get across it and it was also one of those things like you say as a pundit what you're thinking if I get this wrong I'm not too fussed or you could just apologise you could apologise I'd gladly apologise Flav I apologise to you and the whole Spurs community. Thank you very much. The amount of messages I've got from people going, what are you going to say to Carroll?

11:51What are you going to say to Carroll? I don't fucking know. Put a shake his hand and go for the bevy. Surely it's better for us as a Liverpool fan to watch us beat United in the final. I'm absolutely delighted. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, that was just a small sample size of the kind of negativity you get as a Spurs fan. It's not just on the overlap, it's everywhere. People saying, you're never going to do anything. And the last time you won it was 17 years ago. it was rammed down your throat, won something. And even that was a League Cup. And I apologise to any Newcastle fans, but that don't move the needle, a League Cup.

12:22The last time we won something significant was 1991. And I was 10, so it was a magnificent evening. And I was never really in any doubt that we were going to win. It wasn't bravado. It was a kind of understanding of the situation and the way Gary Neville was speaking the last time on here and the general sort of mood and messaging that was coming out from Man United and Amarim and their players. I was like, they just don't want this. And we are desperate for it. And I can categorically say that I don't care about Champions League football. That as a prize to me meant nothing on the night. All that mattered was winning that trophy.

13:01And we did it. And the disbelief, despite the confidence I had, the disbelief of actually watching my captain lift a European trophy in my lifetime was something I didn't genuinely think I'd ever see. And it was a surreal and beautiful moment. And I watched it with my dad. We was in London. We did an event for the game. And we were in early and all my mates were talking to my dad because he was at White Hart Lane when we won the Europa League. And they were like, what's it like, Dave? What's it like watching Spurs win a Europa Cup or a European trophy? And then after the final whistle, he just grabbed us and went, that's what it's like.

13:40It was so good. I'm nearly moved to tears now talking about it. It was such a beautiful moment. There you go, boys, he said. So, yeah, a magnificent evening. And, you know, now we do look towards Champions League football, but really it was just about lifting that trophy. I mean, the thing I've loved all season is it feels like almost every trophy has almost been unexpected. Even Liverpool winning the league in some ways was probably unexpected for most people. Newcastle, Crystal Palace, you know, Tottenham winning. And I think we've said on this show, and we've debated it, how good the season's been, how good the quality of football.

14:15And there has been better Premier League seasons. There's no doubt about that. But there's been very few better than the scenes that we've seen with supporters, I think, in terms of the scenes on the bus to a home from Tottenham. Were you part of that? Yeah, yeah, we were there. We sort of almost couldn't not be. I know the scenes at Liverpool was like massive amounts of people, but around 200 ,000 turned up. And then you realise, and I think other people realise, how big a football club Tottenham is. And it's obviously used as a stick to beat us with that we haven't won anything. But I just think that winning something might galvanise and change something in the football club because we have everything set up, right?

14:55There's massive amounts of revenue coming in. You make a couple of... I can see his face back. I remember one day Ramos said something similar, didn't he, 18 years ago. I just wanted to make a point about European pedigree in London because there's only one team that actually has any and that's Tottenham Hotspur because if you look at, you won two Champions Leagues, two Europa Leagues. Everything. Yeah, by a financially doped club. No, no, no. No, I can do that. He's a financially doped football club run by a corrupt individual. 1971 we beat Real Madrid which was even before Liverpool won any European silver.

15:33OK. And 1998, Gernot Cozzola scored in the Rosunda. All right, OK. So I just wanted to make a point, really, about the sort of European pedigree in North London. If we even leave West London aside, there's only one... Bottom that bit now. There's only one... Bottom West London. Yeah, you can do the North London thing, but you can't do the London thing. London's first, London's second, London's only. Yeah, but the way you went about it was, you know, suspect. We won more pre-Abramovich. We won more in Europe pre-Abramovich. than you've won ever. Can we just keep this about Arsenal then?

16:10Because all they've got is a fairs cup and a cup winner's cup. I'm on board with that. Scolese, I want to bring you in. I'm sure you're watching the game, watching the United stream, but before we get to United, the big question around Tottenham, I'll come to you on this as well, Flav, is around the manager. Do you think a manager should be judged on one game? we talked about Ten Hag last season he has won a trophy and broken that case I mean do you think we will see him in the Tottenham dugout next season and do you think we should see him in that position? It's so difficult to answer that as you said we saw it with Ten Hag where we probably kept him longer than we should have done it it was inevitable that he was going to go with Ange I kind of like him I do like him I was happy coming from United I was quite happy that for him especially I think there was more pressure on him he'd had a lot more stick during the season will we see him again next year I think we probably will I think you will give him a bit of time but I still think he'd be in the 10 hard boat of 10 games in not quite going as well as it should be and he could possibly be gone.

17:34I hope I'm wrong there because I know he's probably a certain taste of people, but I do quite like him. Yeah, I think you can't sack him after doing what we did. That was the greatest moment. You can, Nobbs, it does happen, do you? No, no, no. You're looking at it going, probably should, just because the league form has been so bad. When you think about the game as well, and Tottenham were terrible, weren't they? Everyone's saying how bad United were, but Tottenham were off I know they were missing two of the best players in Madison and Kuliski and that was probably the only way they could have won that game was by pinching a goal hanging on for day life if he had tried to be expansive in that tangible way and we got beaten that's what I'm saying he couldn't have been he couldn't have played but that's not showing kind of the flexibility that perhaps the criticism aimed it no I don't think he was flexible I think he was forced into it yeah I mean it was just finding a way to win like he always wins things in his second season as you said and that has got to be the biggest Mike Drogg gully statement you ever liked to hear.

18:34And do you remember him back in, by the way? Poster Coglu, he said that. He called him Poster Coglu. I'm going to laugh when you'd never win anything made. Do you remember saying that? No, it was big. It was big. I think that was the biggest difference between the two teams. You said it when you were talking before that it was a desperation to win a trophy for Tottenham. Yeah. It didn't feel like that for United. Everything felt like everything was for next year for Man United. They weren't really... I was probably a bit snobby about it because that's where we are now. I mean that's what we're competing with we're competing with the likes of Tottenham we're not in the higher echelons if you like with the top clubs to go into the Champions League we almost got a bit snobby about it I think what Flav said there I think for Tottenham it was winning the trophy for Man United it was getting in the Champions League and getting money it was money you know what I mean that's where I think the difference is with Postacoglu I think you can almost look at his face and say finish fifth and you say that was a decent effort considering he lost Harry Kane and then you look at this season and you can paint it like one or two for Champions League football.

19:32But the worry I have is that I think one of the big reasons you finished fifth in your first season was that Tottenham come off the trap so fast. I think you just won eight or nine of your first ten games and you were top of the league, had a little bit of a lead and you hung on in there fighting for Champions League, just missed it. But from when that ten-game run finished, your record from almost 18, so it's not just this season in the league, it's almost 18 months of football in the league. if I was Daniel Levy I'd think why is the manager not being able to change that so what's going to happen next season for him because it's not like just one season or half a season or the injuries it's over 18 months now of poor or bang average results in the Premier League and I'd be thinking well what can he change what's he going to do next season that he hasn't done over the last 18 months so if Daniel Levy changed the manager I know people would slaughter him and say oh he's a disc whatever but I could understand it Yeah, logically you could understand it.

20:30I think the conversation around Poster Coggle at the moment is you can't sack him because look what he's just given to us as a fan base. But then there's another conversation which says... You were favourites for the trophy, weren't you? This is not an underdog story. Listen, I'm delighted Spurs won. I haven't won a trophy so long. The scenes were amazing. I think it's fantastic. But Spurs and Man United were the two favourites for this competition. Yeah, that's fair. Yeah, and every Premier League club that goes into Europa League will have a significant advantage. But in terms of whether or not Postacolu can do something different next season, the only thing that I can kind of go back to always is when we have Romero and Van der Ven in the team, we play well, we don't lose, basically.

21:14We're about 70 % without losing. And the points amassed while they're in the side would put us around fourth place. but they never stay fit. Romero's constantly suspended, may even be off to Atletico Madrid this summer. So yeah, some big challenges. I think really sensibly, if you were looking at it, you might go if there was a Thomas Frank or a Marco Silva available, which I'm sure they would if we wanted them, that perhaps that would be the sensible thing, but emotion rules in football and you can't sack a manager after that. But Daniel Levy is in a really difficult position. He sacks him, you've got half the fan base going, what have you done if he keeps him and starts bad you've got half the fan base and the rest of the world going all the evidence was there in the league form over the last 18 months his only hope is keeping him and it works somehow Daniel Levy because the opinion ratings on him are through the floor despite winning a cup FSG sacked Kenny didn't he after winning a cup yeah there's quite a few clubs who sacked managers when it's going alright that's the ratio you think of Pochettino last year He had a great finish.

22:21But it's different at Tottenham, isn't it? You know when the comparisons between maybe Liverpool doing that or the comparison maybe between Manchester United and Ten Hag, it feels so different at Tottenham. I feel like Ange Postokoglu deserves the opportunity simply because Manchester United, even in their lowest ebb, always win silverware. They always win silverware. They know that silverware isn't defining. Low-level silverware isn't defining. For Tottenham, low-level... I mean, I don't call this low-level silverware. I think it's a really significant win for them. But it might be defining. and I feel like he's earned the opportunity to see if it does change.

22:51Yeah, it's not going to change anything at Liverpool winning a low-level cup. It's not going to change anything at Man United. Winning European silverware might change something. Just say a cup. No, I don't think yours is low-level. I just mean it could change Tottenham and I think he's earned the opportunity to see if it does. The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them.

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25:14Well, Rory, does James Madison deserve the opportunity to go on the show, have a one-to-one with you? I mean, where are we going with this spat? It's not a spat. It's not a spat. It's far from a spat. I just couldn't believe the front of him. I genuinely couldn't. Like, to come out off the back of winning that trophy, the club winning that trophy, and to make it all about him, it just baffled me. He had your pants down. I just don't get it. When you think about what James Madison is, When you think about James Madison's career, it boils down to about four talking points, right? A European final that he didn't play in, made all about himself.

25:50An FA Cup win, he won the FA Cup, started on the bench, watched Eosie Perez start, watched Eosie Perez sing Abide With Me. He did get on the pitch that time, though, so fair enough. Totally got rattled by Neil Morpai. The only other person in the world I've seen get rattled by Neil Morpai was Ty from Arsenal Fantasy League. And obviously, the most significant of the lot, he had a penalty to keep Leicester in the Premier League. He had a penalty against Jordan Pickford. If he scores that, it's a six-pointer. It could be so different for Leicester today. And he chips it straight down the middle like a back pass.

26:21All that combined, some front end against him. It's so weird that you're so passionate about this. He's a Premier League footballer. Of course I admire him for what he's done. I just don't understand the front. He didn't even play. He didn't play. And he's talking about Roy Keane, a man who famously was embarrassed to listen to the Champions League. You're talking about a light-hearted conversation and making something out of it that just isn't there. I know that's your job, Rory. Is he not a character? I like him. I think he's a big personality. He's a character. His character thing is nonsense.

26:51I totally agree that there is an element of footballers now that has become fairly predictable, fairly robotic, and fairly uninspiring, right? That does exist in footballers. And we all hate that. We hate it. I totally hate it. I love a maverick. But you know when you think about characters of a bygone era, like right back, Stan Bowles, George Best, right through to the era where you were playing. Do you know what the characters had? Eric Cantona was a character, but he was also in elite-level football. You can't just be a character. That just makes you the joker of the pack. You've got to be a character.

27:21He's been our best player this season. He has a really, really good game, 1-7. No, no, no. He's a really, really good 1-7. That's why he plays for Tottenham. That's why he plays for Tottenham. That's why he plays for Tottenham. Right, I'm in agreement then. That means, yeah. No, but Rory can't just say mental stuff like that. That isn't true. One is seven. No, he's been our best footballer this season. Yeah, you've got 38 points. I agree. Sam's done me, isn't he? He's done me, though. Yeah, I just don't get in front of him. So who ordered better, John Terry or James Madison? John Terry didn't do the interviews on the pitch, did he?

27:58Oh, Rory. He's a good bit, Roy Keane. That was a good laugh. I don't know if it was. I don't know if it was. Roy enjoyed it. Roy was all right. I'm sure. I'm sure. Lighten up. It's not about the humour in the situation. I just don't understand the humour. I mean, the question James Madison asked you, what is a Chelsea Rory? I'm figuring that out. Who knows?

28:23It's time for our new game on the winning track, brought to you by Trainline. Their best price guarantee means you won't find cheaper, same-day train tickets anywhere else. And even if you do, Trainline will refund the difference. Exclusions and conditions apply. Search best price guarantee on trainline.com.

28:46Right, this is the Trainline segment and our fans will compete against each other to identify a missionary footballer here on our Trainline board. Paul will place each club where they appear in the country. Hopefully he'll do better than Wayne Rooney. The only clues they will receive are the teams that said mystery player appeared for from the start of their career to the finish. First team appearances only. The winning team will receive a train line voucher that will come in handy on the away trips. If you guess and you are wrong, you are out of that round. To answer, you need to shout your name and raise your hand.

29:22And Paul will name each club as he places it on the board. It's the best of three quizzes. So up first is Manchester v London. So it's Luke and Adam v Rory and Flav. OK, so mystery player number one. Everton. Right, they're on the camera. Yeah. Yeah. Next one. Chelsea. You're good at this, goalsy. Yeah. Homework. Go on then. What did I say? No, no, you've got to say your name first. I'm conferring with your team mate. Ross Barkley. Yes. Go on, Rory. Go on, Rory.

30:06So 1-0 to London yet Okay Mystery player 2 I think this is tough Okay First team This is going to be Catch you Go on Are you going to put The first one I'm sorry Bristol Rovers I think it's around here Somewhere Wales That's Wales That's Wales That's Wales. It's down there. It's down there. He's close. Yeah, we'll go with that one. OK. He was laughing then, wasn't he? Fuck it. He's not far away. Fuck it. He can fuck off. Chelsea. Oh, right there, Rory. It's not like that. Hold on. This is so geared up towards Rory. Yeah, to Chelsea. Come on, Rory. Bristol-Royal to Chelsea. Is that the next one?

30:51You should know. This is mental. Who's that? Is that the last one, though? Yeah. Swansea. Is that about right? Down. A little bit lower. Fuck yeah. You're almost there. Fusser. Where else, where else, Siobhanie? A little bit over and down again. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Fucking centimetre.

31:17Sitter. Is that right? What? Oh, no. Is that right? Is that right? Scott Sinclair? Yes. Right,

31:35mystery player three. Chelsea. I don't know how it started. We have a massive turnover of players. It's very difficult to avoid players. Oh, we've got a little... Yeah, but that's the France. I know that's... I mean... It's over there somewhere. We've got to go round the back. Over the bridge. Yeah. What's that? Lonson. Barcelona. Barcelona. Barcelona? Hang on, hang on. Yeah, you just say it straight away. Adams already thinks he knows what it is. No, no, no. Based on the next team. Oh, let me go. I'm not going to let them know. What team do you think is going to be next? If it's Arsenal or United.

32:18Oh, no. Shut up. It's going to be Chelsea again. If he's Chelsea, then I'm just out of the way. Yeah. Aston Villa. Barcelona to Aston Villa? What madman would make that move? Barcelona to Villa. I don't think I'll get it after that. That's one, do you? Middlesbrough. First one, man. Yeah. Hang on. Villa and Barcelona. Oh, I might. Is it Dalmo Traore? Yeah. Oh, yes! Go on, man. Go on, sir. that's it 2-1 to London Rory and Flav the winners with a round of applause get used to this the winning feeling it's what we do it's what we do thanks again to Trainline remember to download the Trainline app and search best price guarantee on trainline.com

33:26Adam, Man United. How bad a result was that in terms of, you know, since you've been watching United? When you think of sort of really bad results in big games, is that right up there? It's possibly the worst final performance I've seen from us. We've had some bad ones, but the ones against Barcelona were against one of the greatest teams we've ever seen. That was one of the worst performances. And you look at... This isn't bitter, by the way. I don't think Spurs were good and I don't think they had to be good. The second half, United didn't knock at the door at all. I think we had the one chance from Luke Shaw, which could have gone in May.

33:59I think it was Luke Shaw anyway with a header. But the performance was just bad. And I think I underestimated just how bad we were. We were going into it thinking, European final against Spurs will be all right. We'll get us through this. Casemiro, Bruno will perform and we'll be okay. But the performance was bad. It led to a flat energy in the stands, which was the most impressive thing. because we started off quite well. We were all bobbling, singing a Ruben Amrum song and everything, and then they scored. And I think everyone just knew we're not coming back from this now. There's just no way back because that's how it feels with this team.

34:29And you go from back to front, it's just pathetic. The goalkeeper, I don't know if I'm being harsh, but I thought he could have stopped the goal. I thought it trickled over the line and he probably could have done better with that. Rasmus Hoyland, I defended him a lot after last season. I thought he did all right last season, but just not a Manchester United striker. You look at him, me or Flav or whoever could do what he does in a shirt because he's just moving about. He's not really making any intelligent runs. I don't think defenders ever think, bloody hell, I'm in a difficult game here with him.

35:02He's just too easy to mark and throughout the team we were poor. And you look at even some 50 million pound Manuel Lugate doesn't start a final. I'm not convinced about him. It seems like more bad money spent, you know, Casemiro's off now. Are we even possibly looking at Bruno being off? There's going to be a lot of changes that need to be made to this club. What did you think at the start, when you saw the team? What did you think the team he picked? I was surprised and I wasn't surprised. I would have probably put Bruno in one of the higher positions. For me, Kabi Meno should be getting more than a minute in a final.

35:34He's already shown that he can come up with some clutch moments in big games and score crucial goals. For him to only get 30 seconds of normal time, I thought that was baffling. but the manager's constantly been I love Mason Mount I love Mason Mount and Mason Mount started I don't think he was and Luke Shaw when they hadn't played a lot of football I just found myself getting more angry at these players we spoke to Rupert Amarillo nearly every Thursday night after these games and what he sees the problem with the team as I think we all know is the physicality of them they're not quick enough they're not strong enough they don't get around the pitch well enough and when he picked that team which is especially for the Premier League league in the Europa league against some of these Spanish teams and stuff they've been they've been okay they can they can live with that but then he picked this team which essentially it was a Premier League game really wasn't it I think he picked his slowest team I'm looking and thinking the only way he can possibly win this game if it's nil nil get to the 80th minute on and bring subs on like a Ganaccio or a Coburn man who can win the game once they went one nil down I thought just because it's they find it so difficult to break teams down.

36:44I think Fernandes had a really good chance, but other than that, he never felt like, they could still be there now, never felt like they were going for a go. He was just hopeful, balls into the box. Hopeful, yeah. But then you're asking your midfielders to do a thankless task, really, when your striker is... When you looked at both teams, they were too strong, too physical, too quick for them. Now, I don't actually think the game turned out like that, because after Tom and got the goal, as you said before, they were just smashing the ball. It was like, there's still 40 minutes left here. There's still plenty of time.

37:17United had loads of possession, which you didn't probably expect. From Tottenham's point of view, they couldn't keep possession because you didn't have your likes of Madsen or Kulosevsky who can hold the ball. And it probably forced you to play to that way. But I was so surprised with his team. I was confident all week. I thought, and I said it on air, I was talking about history and history of the club will win this game. I see the team and I think that's the least physical team he could have picked and it obviously showed in the end that Bruno's performance was disappointing but we can't keep relying on him we can't keep relying what do you think about there's been talk about like I'm at the position now where I'm just of him going rip the whole thing up and start again we've got no European football next year try and incorporate some academy players I'm considering it's not my decision but I mean I'm considering like maybe we do just let him go and just try and build from there but Bruno yeah well they were talking about 100 million from him weren't they I think you only get that from Saudi so they were talking about Saudi oh you'd have to take that oh you can't turn that down do you know when you talk about this system as well and I know he's been brilliant he's carried the team on its back where does he play what position is Bruno Fernandes do you see him in one of them number 10 positions do you see him as a holding midfield player he almost I'm not saying he might confuse it he might confuse the whole system because he doesn't really have that one position for him so I think look he's been brilliant don't get me wrong but if there's 100 million quid for him I think you snap the round of it 100 % I've always described Bruno Fernandes as a great talent but not a great player in that he's a bit as you say but as you say where does he play he's a bit mad he just runs all over the place he feels to me he's only like a kid in a school that's how I'd describe the best player in the schoolyard he's over there one minute then he's over there he's taking all the free kicks and he is in a really poor team but I don't think he's ever had any discipline where if he was in those number 10 positions and we say that's where he plays but Amaran wants him there he wants him to do certain things he wants this one to do certain things I used to always watch him when he was even under Oli and we used to criticise Man Utd defensively about pressing from the front and I'd be watching I'd be commentating the United Liverpool game and I'd be watching and he'd just be sprinting so he's working hard and everyone thinks he is but he's just killing everyone else yeah I think he running all over the place he's right I think he does his own thing I remember I think it was on Reesburg when he played for Guardiola I think at Barcelona he said you're only allowed in certain areas of the pitch now I think if you're a top player you should be able to play for the best managers I couldn't see Bruno Fernandes playing for Pep I think that comes up from necessity though sometimes I think if he was in a pep team, because he is a great footballer, his flicks, tricks, his passing ability is fantastic, and obviously he gets goals.

40:12I think at United, because he's so emotional, it becomes like, I need to be over there. I think he played for a team where there's better players around. That's not great. It's not always great for a team, though, Adam. Yeah, I know. I've seen him in left back, right back. I've seen him everywhere. I try and see the game from where I was as a centre midfielder. I'd see him as a, where the fuck is he? I don't know where he is, you know what I mean? He could be behind me, he could be in front of me, he could be right hand side, left hand side. And sometimes that upsets the rhythm of the team. Adam, was I actually about the manager?

40:42I did the newspaper column after the final. It wasn't just reacting to the finals. I knew it was a bad defeat for you. But I was thinking of the financial implications of, you know, Ruben Ambrun's come in, it's not his team, we get that. He's trying to build something. And this is like a real step back because of the financial situation. and my thing around the system is I've never been one of them and I know a lot of people say he's got to change the system, he's got to adapt. My feeling is he shouldn't because that's the whole point you've brought him in. That's his thing, this is what he does.

41:13It's like asking Jürgen Klopp not to press. That's his DNA. But the problem I have with the system is if you back a manager in the transfer market, you've almost got to completely change your squad because you need five or six centre-backs, you need four wing-backs. and the likelihood is the next manager of Manchester United will play a back four. I'm 99 % saying that because most managers in the world play 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1. Has he done enough, yeah, at Manchester United to go all in on them? I don't think he has. That would be my fear if I was running Man United thinking, what can I cling to?

41:53I don't expect United to win every week, of course. They're not a great team. But what is there I can cling to? anything in six months that makes me feel this is the guy that we're all going to go in on because for me there's no football basically the only thing that works is putting Harry Maguire up front for the last five minutes and I'm not taking the piss saying that it's like you are a bit local no but you're right I don't know what type of team are we are we a possession team or are we a counter I don't know there's nothing to hang your hat on with the manager I think I'll just add to that I had a good chat with Jordi Cruyff I saw him he was director of football at Barcelona and he couldn't understand why a club like Manchester United had employed somebody with his own philosophy really that he's just his from another club that has never ever happened at Manchester I spoke about the three at the back many many a time we tried it maybe a handful of times on the manager after 10 minutes bang it's gone it just doesn't suit Manchester United and we're talking about years and years of problems here that it could cause because we're going to trust the manager to recruit for that system.

43:04It's just... That's my point. But, you know, it's absolutely guaranteed the next manager will play a completely different system. He just will. That is my point. And that fella's then got to, like, change so much. And I just wanted to make a little point about I'm really interested with Alonso going to Real Madrid. Now he's sort of been successful by a Leverkusen playing three at the back. Inter Milan in the Champions League final. It's not about, like, this system can't work. but it's the makeup of your squad. I'm really fast. I just can't imagine Real Madrid playing three at the back. Because Madrid don't do it, do they?

43:32It just doesn't feel right. That thought is exactly how I see Manchester United. Three at the back. Now look, it might seem a small thing for a lot of people but it doesn't look right, it doesn't feel right and it's not working.

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45:22Rory, does it feel right with Chelsea winning or completing the set? I've got someone in my ear telling me, Bob. Sorry, I'm here. Nice one. I mean, it certainly feels right, Chelsea winning European silverware. I think it's what we do best. And to win that, to complete the set, to become the first and only team to have done it, yeah, it's brilliant. Of course, of course... I'm sick of it. Nobody else did it. It's also a fun year old. You don't start. It's about three years old. No, no, no. Yeah, but we're the first to have done it. And if you think about the previous... We've asked them to do it before you.

45:56No, completing the set, though. If you think about the previous teams that had done that, so before we'd won this one, there was only four in history. And it was Chelsea, Manchester United, Juventus and Ajax. It's a good club to be part of. We're now the first to do this new iteration of what completing the set means. And I think it's good. We will be joined by some elite teams at some point. Have you got the Papa John's as well? Papa John's. Intertortals. Drop down and win that as well. I can remember you. Roddy, have you changed your mind on the manager? I still think that he's learning. What I can't do, and it's impossible for anyone to do, he did his job.

46:28He did what he was supposed to do. He got the team into the top four. We demonstrated a resilience I didn't think we were capable of towards the end of the season. Off the back of turning a game round at Craven Cottage, we just haven't looked back. We've played with heart. We've played with desire. and there was a pragmatism employed by the manager that wasn't there earlier in the season. You know, when we were constantly just knocking it around the back, it was pedestrian, it was tough to watch. That seemed to change. It seemed to play with a little bit of cut and thrust, but also, you know, big 1-0 wins.

46:58We beat Everton 1-0 when we had to beat them. We went on the last day of the season to Nottingham Forest and it was a really professional performance. So, of course, I have to say... Roddy, can I just jump in there? Because obviously the last game of the season, and everybody plays at the same time. So it's not like you're across all the games. So we just saw the results, saw the goal, a few highlights. What was, I mean, because I couldn't see Chelsea going there when I didn't think you'd had that. I thought the atmosphere would be electric. I didn't think he's had that sort of experience. I was thinking of his defenders and his centre-backs, to be honest.

47:26I mean, did Chelsea play well in the game? I agree with you. I didn't think we did. And, you know, historically, what we've always had, whenever we've been successful, was a spine. And that's applicable to, you know, the iconic one would be Cech Terry Lampard-Drogba. That would be the spine that would carry Chelsea over the line. But it was true the generation before. Dennis Wise in the middle, making sure that the standards were met. I didn't think that this team would have that wherewithal and that fight and that tenacity. But we did. And we went to Nottingham Forest, and I, like you, felt like it was a banana skin fixture for us.

47:55Didn't necessarily think we'd get over the line. But it was excellent. It was fairly comfortable as well. I never really felt that it wasn't going to go our way. I think players rose to the occasion. Like Levi Colwell is a player that I haven't rated that highly. But he rose to the occasion. And I think what we've seen in the last, say, six weeks, we've seen individuals demonstrate a mentality that is in keeping with Chelsea Football Club. And obviously winning the Conference League was part of that. The manager's done great, really, when you think about it. Well, I was sat here last year saying he could be the first one to go.

48:27Yeah, I agree. Because it was such a mess. For him to get him to finish fourth and win that one. And what we saw, I think, particularly in the Conference League, but I think we saw it towards the end of the season as well in the league, performance against Liverpool, who were champions at the time. I think we've seen the birth of a genuine superstar. I know that this isn't news for anyone, but what Cole Palmer did for Chelsea, dragging us to a European Cup, not the European Cup, a European Cup, it was spectacular. You know, in the way that he won that trophy for us. It was his brilliance. It was him doing it effectively on his own.

49:00Just in. It was, but it was. At 64 minutes, everything was going wrong. Pellegrini had his team well set up they looked like they were in control and it felt like Cole Palmer he said something quite troubling he said he'd had enough of the sideways and backwards passing and he decided to do it on his own that I don't really want to talk about because that scared me a touch but he dragged us to a European trade in case you go back to that well unless I'm reading it I hope I'm reading it wrong but I felt like it was a little bit of a dig at the manager it was a little bit of a dig at the manager I was bored of doing it either way and I decided to be a maverick and do it my way.

49:35I hope that wasn't true. Can you stop piping up? You can't have a player breaking rank like that and going against a cup final. It's a VAR on that. Yeah, it's... Is your finger... I should have bit him.

49:51What we can't do, I think there are loads of areas where Maresca needs to improve and I think it's still quite fresh in the memory, that run that we went on over Christmas where we didn't win, we got beat at Portman Road. There were some really bad performances. Scorsese just said then about the manager's done great, but how did Chelsea supporters see? Did they see that as almost, that was the Birmingham, we've got to win that Europa Conference League, and we have to get Champions League football. So would you say he has had a great season, or he's achieved what you'd probably expect? I don't think you can call it great.

50:22I don't think anybody would call it great. I think we did what we expected to do. And to be totally frank, I'm delighted that we won that European Tour. When I was watching the game, it mattered way more to me than I thought it would. But the victory was what happened at the City Grand. That was the be-all and end-all. Making sure that we qualify for the Champions League, that was what we needed to do. So that was the victory. I'm quite optimistic now because this crop of players have won. There's a lot of first medals in there. So we'll see. I even said it about Tottenham, didn't I? They've won.

50:51Let's see where they end up. Do we launch a series? You remember the manager that went, I remember on here you said he was a championship manager. And the form that we were displaying. the form that we were displaying particularly in that period over Christmas it was that was accurate and he played down the you know we're not good enough to go for the title what do you expect next year? well firstly the Club World Cup we win that win that in the States I'll forget that next year next season we'll have that what I'd like to do genuinely is launch a serious bid to win the Premier League like be in be a genuine contender for the Premier League the following season you expect that next season?

51:27next season yeah I think so I think we finished We've qualified for the Champions League. I don't think... Look, if we spend well, a few tweaks... Robert Sancho... Are we just allowed to spend? Because we're very clever at that stuff. We're very tactical. Some of the women's team. Yeah, so, yeah, mate, what you need to do, you need to sell yourself your own assets. Very clever. And we're excellent at doing that. So we will spend, don't worry. But I think if we can just bring in a few tweaks, elevate the keeper, centre-half, I think, and then everybody's saying it. at striker. Who knows? We'll see.

52:03Greg, I mean, you were at the city ground as well. I'm so lucky I've had weeks and months of listening to you being a bit. I've had weeks and months of you telling me it was in a bag. We asked you, I think, last time on the FA Cup or Champions League football and you said, why can't we have both? I couldn't hear you then. No, I still stand by that Champions League was the most important one and the cup room was probably the reason that we just didn't go over the line. I've never known it just to not go our way so much in the last few weeks. Every single result, even City bottling it, and it just didn't go right for us.

52:43But even on the last day after the West Ham result, which was incredible, I thought we'd do it. I thought everything sat right on that day and somehow Chelsea... You didn't turn up. Yeah, but I mean, we could have still got it at the end. once Villa, Man U got a result. It was just like, it felt like we'd got relegated. It genuinely did. I was gutted at the end of the game, absolutely gutted, hearing your lot cheering. It was just grim. And then seeing that you've been reading out the teams that we can get in the playoffs and start of the season, I'd have been absolutely buzzing with it. But because we had a taste of what was to come in April, we were like 10 points, clear of six.

53:24and, yeah, just didn't sit right. Do you think the Maranakis thing? Yeah, who do you blame for it? Gary Neville.

53:35You created your own problems with all that, didn't you, moaning about the atmosphere during the week? But there was no need to go there, was there really? Yeah, and I'm sure if he looks back, he will say, right, all the advice is true. Do you think that really affected the team? No, I think it, if I'm honest, the day of the game, the day of the Chelsea game, there was a kind of a we're all in this together type thought. There weren't people moaning about him. There were obviously moaning about what was going on with the pundits and stuff. But I'd rather see a bit, I've always said this, I'd rather see a bit of passion and a bit of like real light heart and desire from our owner than say like the Man United owners who just are in it for the money and selling the bonds and stuff like that.

54:19But when... He wants money, don't worry about it. When you're going on about, like... Where are the fans that with the manager, the fans especially? Do you know what I've seen? Look, they've had a great season, but it's a way of playing that sometimes fans can probably get frustrated with. If it doesn't work maybe in the next five or six games of next year, do you think he could be under a little bit of threat? He'll be under pressure anyway. I think fans get greedy, don't they? I think when you play that way, you have to score first. It can look horrible. It can look ugly. but I just see a bit of pressure coming to me.

54:56I think, not Forrest fans, but fans in general get greedy, don't they? All of a sudden, they want to see Forrest fans, what I see is 60 % possession every week and playing his nice football. And he couldn't, I think that's what I was probably expecting at Spurs, wasn't it? To play that exciting brand of football and he couldn't really provide it. Will Forrest fans go that way? No, because we had it under Cooper as well. Even when we got promoted, we had a perfect spot of about 35 % possession and it just worked. When we get the ball with our attacking, with our wingers, it's exciting. So we don't mind not having it.

55:29Even when we beat Brighton 7-0, I think they had more possession. It's just the way we play. And as long as we keep these exciting players like Hudson-Odoys and Alangas and Iners, they're the ones that once they get it, you know something exciting is happening. And I do think we got figured out towards the end of the season, even when Leicester came and got the draw against us. That was a bad result for him. Oh, it was terrible. It was awful. Absolutely awful. I mean, devastating now with what's happened. But I do think Nuno loves a small squad. When he was at Wolves, he had a small squad and a small core of like 11, 12, 13.

56:03You've got about 80 players, haven't you? No, we've got 25 like everyone else. I do think we're going to have to strengthen with three or four big players. Are you in the European? Conference League, you know. Then Thursday nights are going to kill you next season. No, they're not. There's a chance, though. You could sit here next year. You might have won it. Yeah. What got relegated? Yeah. Do that again.

56:34We're going to bring Justin in from Aston Villa. This is your debut. Welcome to the fan debate. I mean, there's been a lot of frustration around Aston Villa, you know, regarding the last game of the season, the officials, the VAR. I mean, have you got over it, yeah? I'm happy with it. As an overall of the season, I'm over the moon where we are. I'm hearing negativity and people not being happy. I'd love a lower league trophy, a lower level trophy. I'd take one any day of the week. I think we were in a fantastic place. Six years ago, I was taking my daughter to Rotherham away in the Championship.

57:08And if you'd said to me, six years later, we're going to be qualifying for our third season in a row in Europe, I'd snatch your hands off with one of the best managers in the world, a squad of players I haven't seen in my life following the Villa and achieving what we're achieving, you know, at the start of the season. You know, we had Europe last year and I think we navigated it pretty well for our first season and I think it's helped us this season, being in that competition last year and the step up in quality this year. I've really loved the format of the Champions League. It's the first time we've been in it since, what, 40 years.

57:39So we've probably helped us not being in it previously. so we just went into it, you know, fresh. And I think we've done brilliantly in the Champions League. We've never, ever in our history failed to not qualify for the quarterfinals in the Champions League, so we did that again this year. You should have knocked PSG out legitimately. We should have knocked them out, yeah. I mean, I was sitting there on that night in the Villa Park and we were 5-2 down in aggregate and I'm the most positive Villa fan going and people were like moaning around me. I said, lad, you know, this is PSG. This is one of the best teams in the world.

58:08I said, if we get one back, who knows? And, oh, shut up. I mean, honestly, we should have beat them. We should have knocked them out. What game was the highlight of the season? And I say that because you've been to every single Aston Villa game this season, yeah? Not all of them, no. A lot of them, yeah. Who the fucking hell said he'd been to? It's him that done it. Oh, it was you? Yeah. You don't show up. You've obviously muted him on social media. What was the highlight? I've got a life and a family, so I have to be very careful. The highlight I think Bayern Munich has to be the highlight to get them at home in the first game and that's obviously who we beat to win the European Cup in 82 and that team is still lordy now at Villa so to get them at home and then beat them 1-0 more or less identical time to when we scored the goal in the final as well it was just an incredible night it was just an incredible incredible night and it's just I can't speak highly enough of my club the owners are phenomenal I'm hearing obviously owners from other clubs are terrible the management team is ridiculous the backroom staff are fantastic Damien Vidigani Monchi the recruitment's brilliant you know everything beyond the scenes is great it's a bit weird isn't it are you worried about the recruitment because there's obviously a lot of talk about other clubs on this involved here have been involved in PSR issues and Villa's always one of those teams that gets brought up missing out on Champions League football, it probably looks like you might have to sell.

59:40I think we'd have to sell anyway. Yeah, or maybe exchange players, or be clever in the market like you are. If there was one player in the squad who you'd think he's a good... Not you like to see move on, but who do you think, well, okay, that's probably one we could get good money for, but maybe easier to replace than somebody else. Is there someone in the squad who you think he's the one to sort of bring that revenue in? I think we'd be all right, because apparently we've had an offer from Clear Lake for our women's team for half a billion. So I think we're going to navigate it that way. Look, my thinking is and will be until Unai Emery decides to leave.

1:00:17If he decides, and that's how we run our club now, he will decide who goes and stays. And if he is happy for anybody, anybody to go, then that's fine by me. I give him total and utter autonomy over everything that happens. he's that he's the important person at our club yeah but who would you choose if I had to I think Emi has definitely dropped off a bit this season so he's not the best goalkeeper in the world now the previous two seasons he was the best goalkeeper in the world by a mile by a mile nobody could touch him you don't win two you know goalkeeper of the year awards without being the best goalkeeper in the world and some of the saves the save away at Forest this season I've never seen a save like that in my life Then he chucked it in the back of the night.

1:01:04All right.

1:01:08But no Villa fan, I couldn't sit here and say he's reached the levels that he has previously at Villa. So you do start to think, OK, is he a player with his high profile, with everything he's done in the game, is it someone we could get a premium for? And this is a real key factor in running of any football club, especially where we are now. We've come from nowhere to now mix it with everybody, the big teams now. and I think we are establishing ourselves in that conversation every single season. So for me, it's such a difficult moment when you decide to sell a player. Last season, if we'd have sold Leon Bailey last year after the season, we'd have got a premium for him.

1:01:46Fans wouldn't have been happy because of what he did, but look what happened. So you've got to pick your moments when you decide to bring seller players in. And the interesting debate he was having about Bruno Fernandes there earlier, we was in exactly the same position as United. Jack Ridley was everything to Villa. Everything went through him. He did everything. He came back and got the ball off the defenders. He ran up people. He scored goals. He created things. And he got sold for£100 million. And everyone was devastated. But that was the starting point of our rise. And I think you're right in what you're saying.

1:02:14It's almost time for United now just to cut everything out and start again. So for me, nothing's off the table this summer. Only what Kim's off? Nothing's off the table. I love all of these players. And I would love nothing more than to keep the squad and just a manager go, OK, I could do with improving him, I could do with improving him and we'll look at doing that there. That's great, that's not going to happen. For some reason now, Villa are one of the clubs that, don't matter what we do, we've had record gate receipts, we've had sold out every single game, we've got to the quarterfinals of the Champions League, we've got the biggest kit deal in our history, the biggest sponsorship deals in our history.

1:02:47So you're saying the Premier League's corrupt? Yes. And yet still, we are one of the only clubs with probably Newcastle that continually have to come out. I went to the awards night last week and Damian Vidigani stood up and he said, it's going to be a difficult summer. How is that even right in the modern age? I love everything you've said. It's been fascinating listening to you talk about this. But you've made decisions where your ways to turnover is at 93%. These aren't choices made by... Of course they are, yeah. So the Premier League are corrupt. No, they're not corrupt. It's absolutely not...

1:03:19I don't think it's a lot of... It's great, isn't it? It's not Villa fans. There's other fan bases that keep banging on about the Premier League being corrupt. There are a set of rules that everyone has signed up to and agreed to. And if you fall foul of it, or like you lot did, that's on you as a club and how you run. Well, everyone apart from City. Yeah, it stinks. Oh, I think... And Chelsea. I'm Chelsea. Chelsea aren't operating within the rules. This is what I'm saying. They're operating within the rules. No, they are. Yeah. They're just clever accounting, isn't it? Get clever accounts. Yeah, well, you have to, and you have to take the lead from other clubs.

1:03:55So somebody does it, and that's sad, isn't it? That's really sad in the modern age. All we ever talk about, every time I watch this, is money, money, money. Dominated money, isn't it? I am a fellow fan that loves my club, and seeing what we've achieved is brilliant. And players will come and players will go, but my club will always remain. Well, you don't want to talk about money, but we'll go to Manchester City, and we'll talk about money. Luke, someone tells me that you've been to every game.

1:04:23Well, yeah, managed it. Probably didn't pick the best season to do it, to be honest. After the last four. But, yeah, not the best season, like I said, to do it. But, yeah, me and my mates got to 57 games out of 57. Not sure I'll be able to do that again. Another mid-table team beat you in the final, has that been? Yeah, that's true. United did well to stay up, mate. And also, by the way, whilst I got the chance to speak, he told me that United were going to win the Europa League and get in the Champions League. And City were going to bottle the Champions League. I've said a lot of things that haven't happened.

1:04:54Yeah, not the best season. We wanted to win the FA Cup. We didn't, but we got in the top five or four, whatever you want to call it. Got in the Champions League, finished third. So we go again next season. There's a big rebuild coming. Pep's just changed half his coaching staff. We're going to sign a few players. There's a lot going out the door, like we know. De Bruyne is gone. Might see another couple go, maybe both keepers. Bernardo, Walker's definitely gone. So it's going to be a big summer. I don't think City's team and the whole field of the club will even be recognisable to how it is now, next season.

1:05:25Scorsese, Kevin De Bruyne, we've said about how much we love him. He's one of the greatest players we've ever seen in the Premier League. Who should they be looking at to replace him? Was I supposed to think about this? No, is there anyone in the Premier League? How do you replace a player like that? He's very hard to replace, isn't he? How do you replace him? There's talk of Morgan Gibbs White, isn't he? He's not the same. Gibbs White isn't the same. And when it first got mentioned that he was going to be released, I felt it was probably the right time. And then I'd say the last couple of weeks, he started to look all right again, didn't he?

1:06:04Yeah. And I think his whole feel with the whole thing is that maybe he should have got a bit more time. But in this modern age, you don't want to let... Well, for starters, you don't want to see him deteriorate and you don't want to see him leave. You know, we've had players in the past maybe that have stayed a little bit too long. All teams have had that. And like you said, it's an emotional sport, but sometimes you can't get emotional. I'd love to see City go and give him a deal and keep him here. He's my favourite ever player. I think he's our best player. You know, sometimes once you give him the news that you are going to go, it just relaxes you a little bit.

1:06:34You think, ah, no, I can't do what I want the last few weeks. And you can't just keep giving him the plays. I'm trying to think of a player who could replace him. You've got me thinking. Well, it was funny. I thought it was interesting because you think of Liverpool heavily linked with Florian Veit and City pulled out of that one for financial reasons. And you know what's mad? We pulled out of whether you want to read into it that he's rejected City or whatever that might be. That's exactly what I'm reading into. City actually pulled out the Van Dijk deal as well and whether that's the same thing or not.

1:07:02If you watch the documentary in 2017. Well that was a mistake. 18. Yeah. City sometimes pull out of these mega deals and people would question. For financial reasons? Potentially. You know, you can't run a team by just spending a billion. And you'll say... I think you have. That's exactly what you've done for 20 years. We don't just go and spend 200 million on a player. You spent 100 million on Jack Reelish for four years. That's our record ever transfer. I know. And we won the treble. So you wouldn't have the finances for Veytes now? No, I personally don't think that's the case. But the club will say what they want to say.

1:07:38I personally would rather than spend£120 million, whatever it is, on Verts. I'd rather go and sign four players. I'd rather see us get Reinders. I'd rather see us get a new keeper, a new right-back. I think I'd rather see five players come in than go and get one. And by the way,£120 million is probably 300. Wages as well. Say it again. Cost you more than£120 million for those five, don't you? Yeah, it might do, but I'd rather go and spend money on five players than get one. You've got Rodri coming back as well. Yeah, we've got the best player in the world, factually, coming back. He won the Ballon d 'Or.

1:08:11He won the Ballon d 'Or. That was a year ago. Who's the current Ballon d 'Or holder? It seems like he's took a long time to come back. ACL injury, it's going to be, to be honest, I think he actually won. Six to nine months, wasn't it? Yeah, I mean, he got back in seven and a half. Has he played towards the end of the season? He came off the bench once. He was on the bench, wasn't he? He played like 20 minutes against Bournemouth and then he was benched against Fulham. But you've got a brilliant number 10 in your ranks already but you've ruined him. Who's that? Jack Grealish. I don't think we ruined him.

1:08:39He won the treble. He's absolutely ruined him, Pep. I don't know about that. I don't know about that. It's the answer to the Kevin De Bruyne issue. It's very difficult to ever talk about Pep Guardiola making mistakes because he's such a gifted manager and has done so well. But is the answer, in terms of the vision, not Cole Palmer? I know they're different, but Cole Palmer linking up with Erling Haaland. Could you imagine? It would be unbelievable. I absolutely love to have Palmer at the club still, but it didn't work out. We won the treble and he couldn't get a kick. He was injured the next season.

1:09:05And you let Morgan Rodgers go. If I go a minute without saying treble. Check it again. If I go a minute without saying treble. If he won one in this millennium, then I'd want something. Cole Palmer was sold also for PSR reasons back then, because of homegrown. But if Palmer's upset Maresca by calling him out, then there potentially is an opportunity to buy from Chelsea. That would solve the De Bruyne problem. It's never going to happen. I'd love to entertain the idea, but it's just never going to happen. And when we sold Palmer as well, what did we get? About 45 million, something like that. But at the time, I think people would have said 20 or 30 he might have gone.

1:09:41No one rated him anywhere near as highly as they do now. And I think that's fair enough. But isn't that on Pep? He was watching him every day. I'm not sure about that. I'm not sure about that. He was trying to break into arguably the best English team ever. That year, he couldn't get in the team because he didn't get a minute really. Is it not somebody's responsibility at the club to identify that this fellow is going to... He couldn't... But that's how it works. Are you saying Palmer should have played ahead of De Bruyne that year or what? This is something that I'd make relevant to Chelsea. We shouldn't have sold Salah.

1:10:09Somebody at the club should have gone, this geezer is going to be unreal. Keep him. Or De Bruyne. Or De Bruyne. Yeah, it is a mustang. Yeah, you could have played all ahead of that. I'm not sure about the cap. You've ruined Foden. I was wrong. Not enough said about that, by the way. What are you on about? He's ruined Foden. One bad team. You's like we're comparing him to Scholes and Lampard and all these players. Get him 20. Get him 20. He's just turned 25. He's won everything there is to win in the game. What's happened to him? What's happened to him? He's burnt out. He's had... Will he be in his mouth?

1:10:41He's had... Think about... He's not ever had anything but success in his career, has he? Well, this year. Okay, fair enough. But it's not a serious note. Kevin De Bruyne is leaving. Gundogan's old. Fodum will be... Fodum will 100 % be. He'll be more than back. And people are going to try and write him off now. Well, I'll tell you who isn't back because it's her debut is Georgia in the back there for Arsenal. Let's give it a round of applause. You didn't get a clap, did you? I'll get a clap. I didn't get a clap either when I was there, mate. Don't worry. We clap when you leave. Georgia has been very classy.

1:11:18Stayed out of all the banter and the arguing and is going to give us her take on Arsenal this season. I mean, there's a lot of stuff going on with Tottenham now, who's had the better season and stuff like that. But how do you reflect on the season from an Arsenal point of view? Finished second again, got to the semi-finals of the Champions League. Did you class it as a success? It's definitely not been the season that we wanted it to be. And I think it's been a frustrating season, for sure. I don't think I agree with Tottenham have had a better season than Arsenal. I mean, looking at where you finished in the Premier League.

1:11:52I've seen it. It's got to be said. but I think yeah I think for me it's been the inconsistencies with Arsenal this season I think like we've had moments of showing that we are one of the best teams around but then I think you know like if we can do what we did against Man City and then we can do what we did against Real Madrid and then you know our performance against PSG was poor but then I think again it's the inconsistencies then against teams like West Ham and Bournemouth and Everton and Fulham that's I think where we ultimately fell down this season and I think you know there's been a lot of chat around managers and there's been a lot of noise around Arteta and whether he stays whether he goes I don't personally think that he should go yet I think you know he's got to do something next season and I think if we don't sign a number nine if that announcement isn't imminent I think collectively as a fan base we'll probably riot but I don't think that is the only problem that we have this season.

1:12:56The pressure's telling on him as well, isn't it? You know some of the comments when he was talking about... The fan base are starting to turn on him. Internally, there are calls for him to... Even his own conducts. As you pointed out against Paris Saint-Germain, you were well beaten. He seemed to say... Do you remember he suggested... They were the best team. They were the best team. He said the only difference between the two sides was Donnarama, which just wasn't true. He then started talking about Liverpool and how his Arsenal side had accrued more points than the team that won the league. what are you on about this is nuts I do think though we don't want too much change at the same time obviously we've got a new director of football and we're going to have players leaving and coming and I don't necessarily think that is then the time to also have a new manager come in I think I wouldn't be mad if we give Arteta another season maybe two because I think obviously we're going to need new players settling in next season and I think they're going to need to settle very quickly and start performing very quickly and we're going to need to see an improvement in the start of our season I think you're right, if we don't come out the gates at the start of next season and perform and win quickly, then it's going to be another rough season for us.

1:14:04Georgia and Rory have both referenced the Paris Saint-Germain game and that takes us to the Champions League final. Scolzi, prediction time. Who do you think will win the Champions League? Year of the underdog, innit? Tottenham beat United. Newcastle winning, Crystal Palace winning. I fancy Liverpool Liverpool weren't that much of an underdog they were to a lot of people but I thought they were strong I'm going to go for Inter Milan Inter Milan everyone wants PSG to win don't they? I don't know about them Inter got on a chin read that well didn't I? beautiful football what about you? you know what I like both of them I like the manager at Inter Milan I think the job he's done about his team playing he plays the way Amaran plays But there's something about PSG and Luis Enrique and some of the...

1:14:54You know what? I'm just relieved. I'm not going there. And I'm going to be devastated if someone wins. Whoever wins, I'm happy. Yeah, it doesn't matter. You know, if you're there in an English team, you're like, oh, God. You can't have that. But right, we're going to get to the community questions. And this is Beth from Bolton. I like this. Which club's fan base Thinks they are bigger Than they actually are Tottenham Newcastle 100 % Tottenham That is Tottenham It is Chelsea That is Tottenham All over Was it 90 ,000 That attended your Champions League 90 ,000 that was it Because we win it all the time With multiple wins We had 50 Is everyone agreeing It is one of these No I'd say I think it could be Newcastle Yeah good answer How was it Champions League games You still still Well, that's just not true, is it?

1:15:47Well, it is. There was, like, genuine... There's genuine pictures that someone put on Twitter. Right, that's it. That's that one, though. It's only a few questions. It's a lovely game. You look at the parades and stuff and things like that, they're not, like, a massive club. Well, I don't really care. Like City say you are. You can say it. One-nil Greg. There's nothing I can say or do. I don't think any City fan out there... You should say you're the biggest club in the world. you can call us what you want and we'll just win it's fine Luke gets a rough ride on this every time he's here he's just confused he deserves it he does have a shot it's not easy he didn't pick City mate I was born to and that's probably the thing everyone picks a team don't they you're talking about actual numbers but the question is isn't it who thinks they're bigger than they actually are Tottenham being in the big six is wild isn't it you know when we do like the big six as hateful as it was the Super League Tottenham had some front being in that At that point, it was two League Cups since 1991 and they called themselves a big club.

1:16:52It's great-granddad, saw him win the double. That's what it is. It's great-granddad, saw him win the double. I saw an Arsenal fan, I think it must have popped up on my phone, someone from Arsenal TV, and he made the point that the scenes we saw when Tottenham won the Europa League on the streets, you'd never see that with Chelsea. and his point was that Tottenham, that showed historically that Tottenham were a bigger club. Absolutely. Is that fair? No, no, it's not fair at all. Just to put it in context, they went, you know, the best part of two decades without silverware and that's what we saw.

1:17:24When we went, when I was young, we went 25 years without a trophy. In 1994, we played Manchester United in the FA Cup final. We lost 4-0. We had 50 ,000 at the parade for losing. We lost the final and we had a parade. We went ahead and got a parade. We were like you. We hadn't won anything. You know I did a parade. judging the parade round judging it by the parade numbers right I'm going to make an executive decision here put your hand up if you think it's Tottenham put your hand up if you think it's Chelsea what are you doing Chelsea are the fan base who think they're bigger than they actually are.

1:18:13Brilliant. OK, that's another episode of the Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet.

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