Liverpool’s Slip-Up, Arsenal Go Top & Amorim Ready To Go? | The Overlap Fan Debate

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2:33New customer offer first three months only. Then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com. Do you feel there's a media narrative against Arsenal? There's actually a media narrative, and you are included, Jamie. I don't mean to disrespect you, but... You just have. I, from the beginning, didn't want Ange in at all Last time I came on here, we had one win in three Adam said United were going to beat us We're at the floor with them He's one of the worst human beings ever One game away from disaster every single week It feels like, and we've got Liverpool next The only team stopping Arsenal from winning this league is Arsenal Wow, you Big Six fans all think you're victims It's amazing It's amazing Oh, we're winners, oh, you're seeing us develop relax.

3:18If England are ever going to win silverware in this generation, it's probably Duke Bellingham. Just get Wazza and Scolzi in. Then you will be.

3:31Hello and welcome back to the Fan Debate, brought to you by Skybet. I'm alongside my co-host and Paul Scoles. All the supporters are with us once again. And Scolzi, it's been a few weeks. What's been going on? What have you been up to? A lot of software stuff, actually. New podcast? New podcast with Paddy and... You're not leaving us, are you? What's happening? No. I wish you the best of luck. It's been both. Thank you, Flav. Yeah, it's been all right. It's been good. But as I said, most of the time with Salford, a couple of bad results. Doing well, though. Yeah, we're doing really well, yeah.

4:04We got up to third or second at one point, lost the last two games. But we're still playing well. Hopeful of a big season. OK. But before we get started today, we've got a special prize to be awarded to a member of our panel. Ooh. Ooh. OK, and last season our fans took on the quiz, didn't you, through the season, and we know we'll come out on top. So, Scolzi, would you do the honours? Yes. Baz. Come on, Baz. Come on down, let's see. Come on down. I don't like to get this. That's what I do. That's what I do. Well done, Baz. Well done, mate. There you go. I don't know what it is. You only have it.

4:40Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You said nothing to me. Only to that. Only to that. Where's the machine from? Yeah, I sit there. He wrapped it. He wrapped it. Tick for something. I don't like bit in the face. Whatever it is, you've got to look happy, remember? Oh. How'd you do that? I've got to wear it for the show. Wazza. Wazza. Mate. Thank you very much. Cheers mate. Well done, Baz. Well done, mate. Oh, Baz. You played that. You played on that, didn't you? I played on that. I know. Well, finally. I played on it. You did play in a trunk, yeah? I missed a great chance, actually. You did? You did two. No, one.

5:26Fuck off, Baz. I missed one. To be fair, Neff made the good shave. Nah, I should have scored. Fuck you, no. What about that? Brilliant. Right, let's get going. And for the past few shows, we've all started at Liverpool because Liverpool are the champions or top of the league. Not quite there at the moment, but... What's going on? How are you feeling? Gareth, come on. Yeah, not great, but there's 31 games to still play in the league. And, you know, we've had a little blip. Three away defeats. Do you think it's more than that? Are you a bit worried it's more than that? I am a little bit, but then equally, I've got sort of, you know, like the negative side and the positive side more on each other.

6:04And one's saying to me that, you know, we've got a lot of good players there. We've got a good manager. Yeah, we've got the manager that won us the title after all of those years of wanting to see it in person, out on field. So he's got all the credit in the world, in the bank, and anyone that says otherwise, well, they can do one. So, and then I just think about, you know, all of these players that have brought us all this joy. Like, a lot of stick at the moment for Mo Salah. He's had that before. He's been through patches like that before. So I'd back him to emerge the other side of it. But right now, he's obviously not playing well.

6:35And yet, there is a worry. There's a worry about the balance. there's a worry about control there's a worry about how easy it is for teams to get at us and there's also a bit of a worry that we're not putting our chances away I mean you know at the weekend fair play to Chelsea thought they did a lot better than I was expecting them to do but equally we had chances in the game and should have done better and should have won the game in my opinion and I think maybe it is I don't think the manager's cracking up or any of this madness I'm not pressing a panic button but I do think there's a little bit where it is getting to him a little bit I thought that when he brought Endo on as an example I just thought well it feels like you're taking the point there when to me I'm watching and thinking you can get at these get at them you know while you're making a defensive substitution at that point in the game so Can I come in on that because it's interesting you say that now the thing that's frustrated me in the last two games is that we've allowed a situation where it has been end to end and I'm thinking sometimes as players Scorsese you're playing a game Crystal Palace Liverpool are better than Crystal Palace Liverpool are favourites to win the game but you've been battered in the first half you've got 1-1 they're on an unbelievable run I'm like get out of there with your point I'm a little bit like that and it's slightly different with Chelsea in that I think when it went to 1-1 I think a team the title winning team the champions just go and win that game you go and win that game especially with the problems Chelsea had but then the game wasn't Liverpool were never in control of the game I felt after it went 1-1 you'd expect them to go and win the game but never really in control and even when he brought Endo on I know it's telling you to take a point but it didn't feel like anybody did go back and defend everyone was just running it's just like that's the thing that's frustrating me for a team who are champions and got such experience and the senior players and what they've won not understanding that situation what I've just said about Crystal Palace where you think points sometimes it's very good isn't it yeah especially when you've played that badly and the Chelsea I'm just like Liverpool will be top of the league down two points that's frustrated me not so much losing games can happen but almost the manner of it two weeks running last minute goals I'm just going to say even the games where you've won I've never felt like you've been in total control I don't think you've ever been in control of a game of football since the first game you try and think what's changed from last year I suppose 50 % of your back four have changed haven't you if you bring the keeper into that as well with his injury he's such a massive presence he obviously lost Trent the left back hasn't quite got going yet has he doesn't look it's difficult to say he doesn't look quite up to the standard of a champions winning team do you know what I mean Andy Robertson everyone thought he needed replacing and looking at it did he really I think he will play a lot more football than he would have been expecting from what we've seen so things I think the goalkeeper's becoming such a big part of football again you think of the presence of an Alison behind that back four thinking wow you just look at him you just look at the size of him and maybe not winning your games all the time but you just look at him and think you're going to miss that you're definitely going to miss that I don't care what team it is we did it for years we've missed a Peter Schmeichel and for years we couldn't replace Edwin van der Sarcombe and brilliant so and Canata has not been quite good has he so defensive you do look quite poor I think but I still think it's only a little blip I still think you've got the best squad in the league I still definitely think you've got the best squad of players Gareth we've got the two week break now what would be the advice listen you've just obviously spoke about the manager and he's not going to listen to you no he doesn't listen to you and he's not going to listen to me he doesn't need to He's got a bit touchy, hasn't he?

10:34Yeah, Gareth, just mentioned that. Listen, you lose games. But you mentioned quite a few problems, and I think there's quite a few. I don't think there's one thing, but if there was one big thing over this next two weeks that you think you'd like to see the manager do for the next game, or you think, OK, he's got to do this, what's the biggest one that stands out for you? For me, as much as possible, because a lot of it obviously depends on form and fitness, and I think both of those things are being a factor if you look across the squad. I just like him as much as possible, to try and decide on what his best team is and stick with it for a bit, as much as possible, as I say.

11:07So I was looking at it before, and there's only three players that have played 90 minutes in the seven games. It's Van Dijk, it's Salah, and it's... Who's the other one? Graven Burch, no? The field is maybe. Can't remember. But it's only three players, and that just shows you how much it's changed, not just in terms of from the starting line-up, but the finishing line-up as well. And I just think it's too much. He's doing too much. he's making too many changes he can't decide who his starting right back is you know what I mean and I think all of that is making it quite messy I want the partnerships to start to build up the understanding starting to build up and I don't think we're seeing that at the moment I feel for the manager in that because I think we always say does he know his best team or stick with a team what you're saying and I get that I think the problem you sometimes have is when the team's not winning and playing well but you've also got a lot of options and you're always thinking, okay, that won't be better.

12:03It's hard to keep sticking with something when it's not working, when you've then got players who have cost you£70-80 million on the bench. So I've got a little bit of sympathy with that. And we keep saying, don't we, and I've said it myself, oh, can we not go back to last season how it was? But it was probably easier for them that the team picked itself. But what Liverpool did in the summer, I think I said it on this show, it felt like a Real Madrid summer, not a Liverpool summer. and there was something about it that I we all love our teams buying players don't we spending money in big names but there was something about it that I was a little bit oh it doesn't feel Liverpool like this but okay great we're buying Ease we're buying Vert we're doing this we're doing that and I was thinking on the way because everyone's had an opinion on you should play him you should play him you should do that because it's being a Real Madrid summer in terms of buying big players does Slott almost need to be like the ultimate Real Madrid manager and I always think of Ancelotti and I feel like Ancelotti every summer you'd almost be thinking what's he going to do with that?

13:06You know, even last season how can he get Mbappe and Vinicius in the same team? But even go back to his AC Milan teams or his Real Madrid teams that was his greatest strength as a manager. He'd find a way, whatever system and he'd get the best players on the pitch where they wanted to play and almost do it for the players rather than, I think in this day and age The game's almost like a manager's got his way of playing. It might be his system, it might be his style, and they've got to fit into that. It might be a case of actually, you know what, we've got to make this work. Not so much they've got to come into the Liverpool team or the slot idea and play.

13:44So we always play on the slot, don't we, 4-2-3-1. That might have to change in terms of getting the players in because when you've spent that type of money on the players, I mentioned about Verts maybe coming out of the team, but that couldn't last forever he's cost over £100 million you've got to try and make that work so I'm sort of intrigued how he does it going forward how he gets these players into the team because I even think Ekotike and Izaak He's got to find a way to get them in together He's got to find a way not every week but you can have it every week if Izaak starts and he comes on with 20 minutes to go you have to find a way where they can play together at some stage The other player that I couldn't remember was Subozlai and he's a prime example of what you're talking about and that he's ended up at right back hasn't he I think he's one where over the summer he's looked at it and said my place was under threat I'm going to knuckle down I thought he was good pre-season he's been one of the best players so far this season and almost made himself undroppable but because of everything you're talking about and everything that's gone on he's ended up out at right back which is and he moved him there again at the weekend and I thought when he come out for the second half you can almost see it on his face he was like I don't want to be here I want to be in midfield and we look better I think when he's in midfield because he offers more protection because another thing just to say what you want from Liverpool is remember when we went to Man City and all of the players grafted and that was basically why we got the result every single one of them put it in a lot of talk about Mo Salah not tracking back at the moment he did that day and I almost think one of those type of performances as well we've got Man United next at Anfield if you're not up for that what are you doing playing for Liverpool we the fans we'll make sure the grounds pumping for that one so I think say to the players remember that game remember how you did that do that and let's get a result against Man United and let's start turning this round Is it not just a case sorry of players just not being informed at this point very much the one well Sellers is an obvious one for now but I thought McAllister was brilliant last season I think he really controlled lots of games didn't he just he hasn't he's been in and out and like you say with signing players it's probably fried his head a little bit and he's not really sure what's what at the minute now look what are we seven, eight games into a Premier League season it'll soon these players are so good it'll soon work itself out Scorsi could I ask you when I think about V8 coming in and it's only six or seven games and I think a 22 year old kid come in the players around him aren't playing well him coming into the team is probably altering the way Liverpool plays a completely different player to Sub-Oslay played that role last season there's no doubt in his quality but I go back to a player who came in at Man United when you were there into the midfield in Veron who was an unbelievable talent but maybe the balance of the team how did it affect I mean do you see similarities or how was that at Man United?

16:46Yeah I think Virch is a little bit different than Veron and he was more of a number 10 I'd say but I think Veron was a central midfield player but you're right he just he couldn't settle into the team it seemed to disrupt things of the way the team played he was a little bit more of a free spirit when he so he didn't really play the position that well and we always play with the two midfield so other than European games we're much better in European games because there's that little bit of security around him around the team I think it's the same for us because the midfield players aren't quite functioning and informing like a Gravenbirch last year was brilliant in that position sat there controlled everything when you play that number 10 position you've got to be certain what's behind you you have to have that security in behind you just to be a bit more relaxed there's obvious talent there with Vurs I think he's brilliant I love watching him the way he received the ball he's just not quite ready but you could say that about seven or eight of the Liverpool team at this point if Salah would have scored that goal at the weekend that probably would have been one of the greatest assists Brilliant, won't they ever see you?

17:51Yeah, exactly, yeah. Look, it's a matter of time. He's coming to a new... He's 22, as he said, as well. He's so young. He's got unbelievable ability. And I think he'll get it right. As long as they get it right in behind him, then that gives you that freedom. It gives you that, I don't really have to run back that often because these will get the ball. They can win the ball and then get it to me. And then that's when I've got my Ezekiel TKs to run off. And look, I think he'll be off and running soon. The Skybet EFL Building Foundations Fund supports a wide range of community projects run by the 72 EFL club charities.

18:25Skybet have committed 6 million over six seasons helping to improve the lives of local people. Wigan Athletic Community Trust with the latest club to receive funding. A£30 ,000 grant will support their adult disability football team for the next three years. To find out more, search Building Foundations Fund. Matthew, I want to welcome you to the fan debate. Come in, new Arsenal fan. Tell us a bit about yourself. Thank you very much for having me. I'm an Arsenal content creator and this is actually a dream come true. I'm sat beside people that I watch all the time. When I was first getting into football, you two were a little bit past your prime, but you were still bawling about.

19:04It's a pleasure to be here and represent the team currently top of the league. How old are you? Always throw that one in right away. How old are you? 22. 22. We've been told as well that you are a bit of a stato on Arsenal and we can throw a game at you and you're going to tell us the results or the goalscorers and that. From August 2011. Post-2011. Post-August 2011. So you don't know Tony Adams scored a half-hour? No, I didn't. How are you thinking that? OK. The game I thought of a little bit before that so I'll test you here. 2008, Arsenal at the Emirates against Tottenham. 4-4. Yeah? Can you tell me the goal scorers in the game and what order they came in?

19:56Oh, God. Well, look, this is outside of my requirements because it is August 2011 but I'll give it a good go. Stop the thinking time stuff. Go on. I'll give it a good go. We went 1-0 up through... Oh, no, we went 1-0 down with David Bentley halfway line volley. we then equalised through I believe Sylvestra 2-1 Galas yes 3-1

20:22Adi Bayor 4-1 Van Persie yeah 4-2 God I was five years old 4-2 he's doing this for dramatic effect he knows exactly what it is I don't honestly this is outside my requirements but I've seen it before 4-2 Genus bent bent 4-3 tell you what though as you said it was outside your requirements so we'll give you that one we'll call it a draw well done but you mentioned you're here to represent the team at the top of the table do you think they will be top of the table at the end of the season? I can't predict the future

21:04I think the only I think the only team stopping Arsenal from winning this league is Arsenal What I mean by that is We can sit here and we can overanalyse Arteta's tactics Should Calafi already be playing in this role Or should this player be starting Is this player good enough To keep it blunt These boys can play football I looked at the 2025-26 squad photo the other day And I'm scrolling through And there isn't a weak link in this team It's full of unbelievable quality in every single position we know these boys can play. What I think it comes down to is how much do these players actually want to win?

21:49How much does it mean to them to win? Can they, when the going gets tough in February, March time, we're playing three games a week, we're travelling all over Europe, can these players maintain that pressure? Can they, rather than feel the pressure, can they embrace it a little bit? Where do you think that pressure would come from? Do you think that would come from your own supporters? Because, as I said, it's so long since you won the titles. You know, Arteta's gone a few years without the title. You can feel the desperation with everyone associated with Arsenal, can't you? You can, but there's also a lot of entitlement, I think, amongst our fans.

22:22The Invincibles and our success in that era was around the time where I was born. And we've gone through periods of change during that. And I don't think it's appreciated enough where Arteta has taken us. I know we finished second last year, the year before that, the year before that, but we're competing. Now is the time to win it. We've got the fundamentals. Practically, we've got it. In contrast to Liverpool, we don't have players that have won it. We don't have that. We don't have the winners in our team just yet. I think we've got players that are capable of doing it and they're showing that they're going to give it a good go.

22:57But we haven't got the, you know, you look at Liverpool, Salah and Alisson and Van Dijk. They know what it's like to win. And I think that's why there was a big debate about Martinelli's celebration against Man City about you've equalised, but maybe you should have that winning mentality to grab the ball and go and get another one. When you look at the year before that, Stones, when he scored against us in the last minute to make it 2-2, Stones is a player that's been there and won it. His mentality was get the ball back to the halfway line. A point is not enough at home in this title race. And I was a bit critical.

23:34on Martinelli for that, for doing that. But I think, not to go too off on a tangent, but I think that Man City game, in hindsight, was very important for the rest of the season because I think it made Arteta realise it's not all about control. You've got to take some risks and maybe they'll pay off, maybe they won't. And you saw in the following week, Newcastle away, he took those risks. He took the handbrake off. He bought on attackers We played all out attack And we got what we deserved So was it fair to say Rory was right Calling Arteta a coward Calling Arteta a coward for what? You called him a coward didn't you?

24:13I called him a coward Off the back of the two Off the back of the performance At Anfield And off the back of the performance Against Man City at home I thought it was cowardly I think

24:26If you're a Chelsea fan Listen I understand If you're a Chelsea fan You might see that as cowardly I see it as Arteta in those games was more worried about not losing than actually winning Is that not cowardly though? Is that not the definition? It's a little bit cowardly but it's also what do you think the definition of a coward is? Well exactly that somebody that's not willing to take risks Especially for a team that are expecting to win the league And especially for a team that are the challenger I always think when you're the challenger they have to go and claim a title they have to go to Anfield and win they have to go and prove that they're serious I think you can always feel a team coming do you know what I mean?

25:00A good team coming like City did it for a few years they're not quite winning the league yet but you watch them and you think fucking hell they're good I think Liverpool did it as well the season before they went fucking hell they're good and at the start of the season I never saw that in Arsenal until the Newcastle game where like you say he took the handbrake off a little bit didn't he and he started playing Eze and then I know how the guards got injured but he came into the team again and all of a sudden they're playing the type of football you expect a team to win the league but saying you think they're capable we're never going to know until it actually happens.

25:33Yeah, I agree. I agree. And in respect to the Man City game that you're saying is cowardly, would you say that Antonio Conte was cowardly before he lost 3-0 to Arsenal and then decided to switch it up, realised how good of a squad he had? It's about the intent. When we won the league, we went to Man City and we destroyed them. When you win a league, when you're the challenger and you're trying to win a league, I think you have to go to the home of the champions and announce yourself, claim the title, show them that it's not going to be theirs again. And I felt like you had a chance against Liverpool.

26:07Yeah. And I felt like that you entered that game in a cowardly way. I also agree with you, by the way. I think he learnt from that. And I thought that it was a brave performance and everything that I said in the two previous games at St. James' Park, he changed the total philosophy. I think he needed that slap in the face. I think he needed to realise how much talent is in this squad and pull the handbrake off. Let Eze have a little bit of fun in the middle. at Port Vale away where he was screaming at Eze to get back in position on the left sometimes you've got to just let players have a little bit of fun and come up with some magic free flowing football and then when we did it in the last 10 minutes against Newcastle we got what we did I just think so many title wins they come from the team that ultimately win the league go into the home of the champions and announcing it like we've had this discussion before you've got to go to these big places we went to Anfield a few times you talk about March, April time when the pressure's really and you get a win they're brilliant you know what I mean it destroys them and all of a sudden it gives you a major major lift Arsenal haven't proved they can do that yet they missed the opportunity as well like they could have gone to Liverpool City at home was a great chance wasn't it City are not faring they're nowhere near the team they should be I hate to defend Arsenal certainly not on a platform like this because I will get absolute pelters for what I'm about to say but the performance against Man City I thought was almost pitch perfect from Arteta appreciate you started Mourinho and Mourinho come on it was it wasn't if he played the best team for more than 45 minutes he wins a game he did play sometimes the biggest team is that pieces they were better we never know I truly believe if Arteta were playing his best team for 45 minutes he wins a game Mac you Mac you what we're talking about now everyone's arguing and having a little pop at Arsenal you're our top of the league right now do you feel Well, I know you feel there's a media narrative against Arsenal.

28:02There is a media... Look at the reaction. Is that an example? There's actually a media narrative, and you are included, Jamie. I don't mean to disrespect you, but... You just have. Before I go into a little monologue, I'll ask you, what is the difference... A couple of years ago, you were shaking about Odegaard taking a few pictures of the club legend Stuart McFarlane, who everyone loves and respects and gave him a memory that he'll never forget. A photographer's a club legend. He's a legend. Don't respect Stuart, we're following it. And you were sat in the studio and you were shaking, get down the tunnel.

28:38To be fair, that was... But then the other night, you're praising Maresca for getting sent off after celebrating. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with Maresca doing that. It's passion. It's what we want to see. But there is a narrative against Arsenal in the sense that it's like we can't celebrate until we have actually won. and I understand that theory. That's the same for everyone though, isn't it? I get that theory. But also then what we meant to do, we meant to just win. Celebrate. Let me tell you the difference, right? You're in January. You've beat Liverpool 3-1. The game was over about 15 minutes to go.

29:11There was no last minute winner. You might have got the third goal later on. There was like a bit of a celebration after the game. It's January. You were still behind Liverpool. Mareska's reacted to a goal going in that second in the last kick of the game in a game where they thought they had no chance they had virtually had kids on the not kids but like sort of you know subs lots of subs on the pitch at the end of the game that's a natural reaction at the end of the game we'd all be like a lunatic last minute winner against the Champions bump yous at that stage where I felt it was slightly different yous at the brilliant result but we're talking like a few minutes after the game's finished and all the cameras are like whoa slow down it's not a media narrative against Arsenal that's a last minute winner and who won the league as well do you know what I mean he was right basically is what you're saying Cheers.

29:55We were unlucky. You were lucky. You didn't win the league? We were very unlucky. We're not going back to the celebration, please, are we? Yes. What else do you feel about the media narrative then? Because I think Arsenal supporters online are a little bit touchy. Yep. Chelsea are not far behind at the moment. Only to you. I do think Arsenal have got a big presence on there, which is fine, a huge fan base. But I think you do think the world's against you. I think every club thinks the world's against them, in all honesty. The thing is with, and I'll compare it to Liverpool, and I'll pay Liverpool their respects, I think that Liverpool are seen as these mentality monsters, gritty, experienced winners, which is very difficult to argue that they're not, especially their call, like I mentioned before, Alisson, Van Dijk, Salah, these are probably pro-McAllister in there, these are winners.

30:49Arsenal, and I don't agree with this, I think it is slightly changing. I think that we're still painted as a young, expressive, developing team that are in a process. I don't think that's the case anymore. I don't know if you are. People call Gabriel and Saliba the best centre-back partnership in Europe. They blow smoke up Saka's arse all day. Everyone loves your team. In the media, we hear positivity about Arsenal all the time. I don't think it's very negative. And I think if Jacare's played for a few other clubs, there'd be a lot more clips of him being a donkey. I think you're well out of order I genuinely remember Lukaku He was a much better striker than him And he used to get clipped up every week He's played in the same thing I think the difference is Liverpool have gone and won it And you haven't done it yet Yeah and I agree with that And it's completely fair to say And Arsenal fans including myself We're very very lippy online It's just something that We're born with It's like a ginhead But at the end of the day You watch football I know the end goal is to win trophies But I'm watching us every week We're winning games We're hardly conceding any goals Why wouldn't I praise this team?

31:52It's the best Arsenal team I've seen in my lifetime since I gained consciousness. And I'm enjoying watching it, so I'm going to be a little bit loud. But then on the punditry side of things and the newspaper side of things, that's almost a crime to do that for some reason. Just don't read it, mate. But you're seen as a developing squad. We've had it for years. I'm just not bothered. Because you haven't won anything. Wow, you Big Six fans all think you're victims. It's amazing. It's amazing. I know. She's right. You're all crying about, oh, we're winners, or you're seeing us develop. Relax. You all get all the media attention all the time.

32:28I'm not saying we're victims at all. I love Forrest. I'm very proud of where we are in it. Well, OK, maybe not right now. But, you know, in general, the media presence we've had. But you all need to relax. Don't worry, Poster Coghler will be in the headlines today. He's in the headlines every time. Yeah, I wish he wasn't. I don't know. Bombas makes the most comfortable socks, underwear, and t-shirts. Warning, Bombas are so absurdly comfortable you may throw out all your other clothes. Sorry, do we legally have to say that? No, this is just how I talk and I really love my Bombas. They do feel that good.

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34:49growtherapy.com slash ACAST. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. Well, Ellie, now that you've come in, you're in. You're in now. I mean, listen, are you part of the Forest fan base that has been calling for the manager to go? It was obviously audible, wasn't it, in the European game midweek. Were you part of that group? No. I don't sing ever, no matter what I think, against the manager. During the game, you're here to support the team, what are you doing? I might agree with them, but I'm not going to vocalise that during the game. and actually at Newcastle, the Newcastle fans started singing it, which fair enough, I mean, we've done it to other teams, that's for sure.

35:34And a couple of Forest fans joined in and the away fans, we didn't enjoy that and we actually all told them, be quiet, you know, like, we don't necessarily disagree with you but let's support our boys right now because they need us right now more than ever. You can't only support a team during the good times. I mean, God, do we know about the bad times, that's for sure. This is the best time we've ever had. so well in my lifetime anyway sorry um but i from the beginning didn't want anj in at all is the very honest truth i felt that i think every single forest family agree with me that none of us wanted nuno to go it kind of had to happen you can't slate your boss on tv and not get sacks that's just the nature of well the world to be fair not just football but i i just think he's too different a manager to Nuno to have no pre-season one's good one's bad that's hard you know what I'm not letting that one slide because actually he did win Tottenham a European trophy and I am going to I felt really bad for him when he was sacked for Spurs didn't mean I wanted him for us but he did win he did win Tottenham a trophy after 17 years and the first European trophy in 41 like don't disrespect a manager like that Ellie can I ask you a question because it's interesting I think most clubs when you love a manager the way you do they're almost against the board you know but it feels like there's such love from Forrest fans for Maranac because maybe that's because he gets a lot of criticism outside and you think oh we're supporting our you know our guy he's the one who's brought us up the leagues is there a split in the fan base between people who are sort of siding with the manager or the ex-manager Nuno or Maranac is it leave you in an awkward position or you're sort of angry with?

37:24I actually think for those fans that pay attention, we're not mad at Maranakis. Well, we are a little bit. He's dropped a clanger. There's no two ways about it. But we know he always has good intentions. We're mad at Edu. Because Edu is the one who fell out with Nuno. Edu's the one that's causing these problems. Edu's the one that... It never should have come to that. You're professionals. Get over it. Woman up. Have a conversation. You know what I mean? It's ridiculous. It's a job. You know, you can't just have an argument, cry about it. Put your egos aside. Forest is the most important thing.

37:56It's a club. You have to put the club first. And Maranakis, he's a businessman at the end of the day. We can't expect him to be a manager. We know what he's like, but he's rescued us. We all agree he's dropped a clangor, but we're not going to turn on Maranakis now. We know he always has the best intentions. And Maranakis does so much more than just what he's done for the club in terms of getting us back into the Premier League, getting us into European football. he's huge on the community as well so we know that he genuinely loves Nottingham so we all know he's dropped a canger but we're not going to turn on Maranakis it's Edu who I want out You say you want him out but it sounds like the supporters at the moment are calling for the managers I think most people would think that's ridiculous in terms of six games in to his time there but do you see this lasting long?

38:44Well if you say no maybe we're talking the next international break if things don't improve who do you want to come in? I'd take Sean Dyche I think right now he lives in Nottingham did he come through the ranks as a kid didn't he? we love him see him in Rock C he's a brilliant guy so and that matters he loves Nottingham I think one thing Andrew's struggling he's struggling to embrace he did a decent job at Everton he did really did he? I think we're in the he's doing a forest yeah he did a decent job on average for a year two years yeah but that's maybe all we need right now I mean we've gone and sacked one of the best managers we've had in years years and years and now we've got Ange and with all due respect he's been put in an impossible position he hasn't had time to hit the ground running he's got a hugely tough act to follow we're in a relegation battle and we have to admit that we shouldn't be we've got a squad that shouldn't be there but we are and that's the reality and who better to help you regain stability than Sean Dyche You were in a relegation battle now, but you look a year ago, you were potentially title contenders.

39:52Did you not have to question Maranakis at all with how you've ended up here? Oh, no, I questioned him. Calling for Sean Dyche on the overlap. What's wrong with that? You were almost top of the league last season. I agree. I said I never wanted Ange in. He's not the right fit for first. What has he done? Mr Maranakis. He's sacked a proven good manager and appointed a proven dreadful manager. He's not a proven dreadful manager. What a load of rubbish. But Nuno was asking for a second. Sorry, sorry. How many... I'm not... I'd like to point out... I'd like to point out I didn't want Anjin, but saying he's not a proven manager is a load of rubbish.

40:27He's won a Europa League title. He's won a Europa League title. He ended the trophy drought. What do you mean? And they still got rid of him. Exactly. But you shouldn't be... You can't look down on a manager like that. He's been getting so much hate. They nearly went down. But they didn't. And now they're in a Champions League. But Rory, Rory, on this show a year ago, you said Morescu neither is P45. Yeah? Where are we with Morescu right now? The win against Liverpool was amazing. Like, truly amazing. I didn't anticipate it. I didn't think that we could do it. I think we demonstrated a true beauty and resilience that I haven't seen under this manager.

41:05I was really, really impressed. I also loved him getting sent off. I thought he was brilliant. Him charging down the touchline, getting involved with a Mafia hiding lower. That's what we bond with. Like, we really do. I think as a support, one thing that we love is sort of like rebel managers. Antonio Conte, we played West Ham on a Monday night. Diego Costa scored first day of the season. He dived headfirst into the family end. It was a brilliant thing. And it really did interweave him into the fabric of Chelsea. Mourinho, obviously. And that was the first time that I've seen Maresco. I thought, go on, really get up there, really enjoyed it.

41:39However, that brilliant performance, that brilliant goal by Esteval, who is a wonder kid, by the way. I think we should probably focus on him for a bit because he's been doing it really, really, really well. And I think he just needs to start now. I think what we have is sort of a duel in the crown. And he scored against us in the Club World Cup. I know you spent a few quid as well, Roy. Do you think they've almost let the manager down a little bit, position-wise? He said he wanted a goalkeeper. He said he needed a centre-half desperately. They've not done that for him, have they? No, I think the way the clubs run, it doesn't make any sense.

42:12We spent a lot of money. But you know, when we clearly, you know, Levi Colwell got injured, he got injured at a time that's terrible for Levi Colwell to get injured. He's our best centre-half. But also, the timing of the injury wasn't bad because it gave us a bit of time. Still had time, yeah. We then looked at it, we had Robert Sanchez in goal and our best centre-half out, and we went and we signed Buonanotte and Garnaccio. You're like, wait, what are you doing? We have plenty of that. What we need is a centre-half. And if we had, instead of signing Buonanotte and Garnaccio, if we'd gone for, say, Donnarumma and Mark Gahey, I think things are very different.

42:44They're the same amount of money as well. So I think that they've perhaps let him down. But I also think, look, we've just beaten Liverpool, so we're kind of on the crest of a wave. Feelings are higher. Stanford Bridge hasn't danced to madness like that for a long time. And it's probably the best result at Stanford Bridge that we've had under this ownership. But if we'd done this episode a week earlier, we'd be talking about losing at home to Brighton, Danny Welbeck showing us up again. we'd be talking to dropping points to Brentford we'd be talking about about limping Chelsea are so difficult to judge aren't they you just you don't know what you're going to get week in week out you try to think where will Chelsea finish at the end of the season I don't know this is part of the thing though to take it back to Maresca what I think Maresca's responsibility is regardless of what anyone in this room thinks I think Maresca should be saying that Chelsea can launch a serious and sustained bid to win the league he's come out he didn't say that when you were top of the league last year though did he pardon he didn't say that when you were top of the league it was January time December time.

43:41We played Everton. We played Everton. We played us. Yeah. You weren't happy, wasn't it? Slot's sounding more like a Chelsea manager than a Chelsea manager. Because we've got a situation where Enzo Mareska's gone, God, Liverpool are good, isn't they? Mate, yeah, they are. But your responsibility is to somehow make us compete with that. So I don't necessarily like the way that he conducts himself. The fans' feeling with Mareska, because I got the feeling last season there was no real connection there. He wins the Club World Cup. what you did to PSG in that final, I mean, didn't just beat them, you know, battered them in the final.

44:16And then you have this bad run that you're on. And I feel like this last sort of four or five days has been absolutely massive for him. Because the whole Jose bandwagon coming back to Stamford Bridge, what can he say? Jose's the Champions League winner, he's milking it. That was massive for him to win that game. And then to obviously beat Liverpool. Has he just rocketed right up in the supporters' sort of conscience? Yeah, I think you've hit the nail on the head. The circumstance, he needed the win. The dramatic way of beating Liverpool. Chelsea and Liverpool are rival. It's a new rivalry, born at the time when you were in the Liverpool starting line-up.

44:51But that rivalry started then and it's gone on. There is a real rivalry. So when Chelsea beat Liverpool at Stamford Bridge, it's significant. When Chelsea beat the Champions, it's really significant. And now it's up to Maresca to capitalise on this. I think the international break's come at a bad time. but this is, I think, a real big moment for Maresca at Chelsea. What does capitalise mean? Does it mean, like, win the league or what? It means take every opportunity that you have. Like, winning in the way that we did. Like, we had Jarrell Hatter and Rhys James at centre-half. Yeah, but... Like, it's a proper Chelsea victory.

45:21Resilient, determined, dogged. It's everything that you want from a... But what makes you happy with Maresca coming into the season? Because you obviously don't rate him that highly. I think it's got... I don't think it can be as simple as qualifying for the Champions League because that's what we did last year and I wasn't particularly impressed. It's more the conduct. It's more be a Chelsea manager in the way that you talk about the game, in the way that you see the game. Charge into the Mafia in low when we nick a last-minute winner, for example. And also, stop saying Liverpool better than us.

45:49Well, Rory, we've gotten a fan debate community question. And this is Stephen from Waltham. Yeah. With Chelsea playing Chelsea dagger as goal celebration music, which grounds atmosphere is so bad it needs a tune? See, this is a problem. See, this is the ownership. This is the Americanisation of the game. This is what... Am I just saying Chelsea? I'm saying... No. Which tune and which ground needs it more than anyone? It's sickening. Do you know what? I'd love now to take this opportunity and basically have a pop-up flab and make some dig at something, but I'm not going to do that because I think that this is hateful across the...

46:25I remember going... When I was young, I used to go to the Reebok or whatever. They'd score against us, Michael Ricketts or something, and they start doing I Feel Good. What are you lot doing? You're the champion doing pig bags. I'm a big fat guy. Football isn't that in this country. We have an organic atmosphere. I just hate it. I really hate it. Can I ask a point? Of course, please. Arsenal need to sort their atmosphere out, the home atmosphere. Some circus music, aren't you? Huh? You say the atmosphere, you're talking just... You know when I go to Arsenal and people sort of laugh at this, but I love that song they do before the game.

47:00Oh, I absolutely love the song. Why is it embarrassing? They're going to like it's centuries old. Also, they're talking about they're also not North London forever. You never walk along when you're from North London. They're from Woolwich and they're singing about North London forever. Isn't Arsenal North London? No. Arsenal is in North London but they moved the club. Like the original Woolwich Arsenal is in Woolwich. It's a good little catch. Why do you care what we sing before our game? It's a beautiful song. If it's embarrassing you've got to say it. It's so bad. It's a beautiful song. I think it's good.

47:28From minute zero to minute 90 the Emirates atmosphere is absolutely dead. What a red action. What about those ultras? You play fantasy first. Oh, yeah, they blur their faces out. They're all on TV. Jesus. In the black Ashburton Army. Shut up. And then when we try and raise the atmosphere, again, the narrative is, oh, shut up. No, that's not raising the atmosphere. I actually think Emirates is all right for atmosphere because you're having a go. Like, the Ashburton Army, I mean, I don't believe in drums at football. I think that's a bit weird. But fair play to them. They're having a go. They're trying.

47:54What I would say is rubbish. It's down to the players to clear the atmosphere, isn't it? I blame the players. When only God gives you all that, Jamie would tell him to stop doing that. I don't mean by doing that. I mean by tackling somebody, having a shot on goal, scoring a goal. It's up to the players to get the atmosphere going. You don't need Chelsea, you don't need mascots. You don't need a fella with a microphone so they're on the pitch. All of that's bollocks, and I hate all of it. Let the fans create the atmosphere. We were doing fine before they brought all of that shite. Absolutely. Kevin.

48:21Thank you so much. Oh, bravo.

48:31Now to Luke, and I'm surprised he never got involved in that because you watch football at a stadium. That is, at times, criticised for a lack of atmosphere. I'm happy to just keep going and watch your team. You stayed quiet. I'm not bothered. I'm just happy to go and watch my team. I'm not bothered, really. Luke, you've got a manager who has amassed 250 Premier League wins. He's an exclusive club. And he's obviously done a lot quicker than anybody else. what do you make of the style shift this season? To be honest I haven't actually seen that much of a style shift I mean You're too busy vlogging aren't you?

49:05No I mean the thing for me is it's like we played against Arsenal who we basically respected and said look if we go at these we've got a week inside we've had a lot of injuries as well we've had Marmouche, Cherky, Aitnori, Cousin we had a lot of players out and last time I came on air we had one win in three everyone said we were shite basically Adam said United were going to beat us wiped the flow of them. Rory's saying Pep should get sacked. Do you know what I mean? It's crazy. And then we've had seven games since then. You didn't say that. You did. I'll say enough mentions. You're happy when they get up.

49:35Well, anyway, we've had seven games since then. Seven unbeaten. Five wins, two draws. Both the draws were kind of last minute. So, you know, decent bit of form that... I don't really see... I've seen Gary Neville saying that we're like a rusty team or whatever he was saying. Scrappy. I've not really seen it. I think if people watch our games, they've controlled the majority of them, played pretty well. We've had a lot of injuries. We're slowly getting there. We had one pre-season game and then obviously started badly. And now we're three points off. Come on, Luke. It has been different. I think it's been a bit different.

50:04Yeah, we've got a different goalkeeper. It's been very, very different. The way Pep plays, it seems that this isn't Pep's. Yeah, the whole coaching staff. And I don't think he's doing it on purpose. I just think the players aren't as good as he's had. Yeah, what I'm saying though is it's not been as dry. We've not gone from attacking everyone to parking the bus is what I'm saying. We're still controlling games. maybe some of the bigger ones like against Arsenal and stuff like that we might see a bit of a change and I probably want to see that in the Champions League as well but ultimately we've got some results and I think we're doing alright I think we're just I'm not saying it's a bad thing we won millions of games 1-0 playing not very well I'm just saying I think the style has changed so much You've got to play to expect it It's not expected We've got Haaland We've got Haaland and we've got the best striker in the world as well I said yesterday I was doing something and I was just looking at his goals I looked at his goals midweek I mean that goal midweek where he just just a little touch over the goalie the volley it just I don't think I've ever seen like a better finisher or goal scorer before obviously I started watching football mid-80s grew up with Ian Rush Gary Lineker Shearer comes on the scene obviously Harry Kane Michael Owen Robbie Fee you can name loads I just don't think I've ever been so confident in a guy when he's going through on goal thinking he's not going to miss he just but I think because of the size of him and the stature of him so quick as well I don't think he gets enough credit for his actual finishing I think we just think he's this a little bit like yesterday knocks people out of the way and has a shot with his left foot smashes the net but he's he's so cute there was a goal he scored a few weeks with his head where he just dinked it all over the goal was that in Europe was he?

51:46was he? yeah yeah for me I do think he's probably the greatest goal scorer we've ever seen in England football. But you say he's the best, what did you just say then? Best striker in the world. I think there's a difference between what I'm saying and what you're saying. Okay, yeah, that's fair enough. I think, I mean, the numbers speak for themselves. I think he's got 18 and 11 club and country this season. And it's just like, it's pretty much guaranteed he scores. You just see him score. I think he's only the Tottenham game where we didn't score at all. Did he not score? So I think if you've got a striker like that up front, we're winning games, we're getting results.

52:19I think every City fan is just so happy to just keep going about our business Did he get five for Denmark sorry Say it again Did he get five or something like that for Denmark Yeah I mean you can get rid of them if you want to still Sorry sorry It was same to you Do you know what I think about him he's like a kid you know when you play when you've got an under 11s or an under 12s team Yeah Too strong yesterday There's always a kid that's fucking massive and bigger than everyone and like an adult I just feel like that but he's doing that in the Premier League it's fucking ridiculous He's ragdolled He said yesterday about the centre-back.

52:51Oh, that was brilliant, wasn't it? He pushed him about and he just had to have him, basically. Well, like Jamie says as well, he's got the delicate... He's got every kind of finish. He can smash it. There's a delicate one. There's little headers. It's just... I think, personally, as a City fan, I think this is the best version of Haaland I've ever seen because when he was... I mean, he got 52 in 52 in his first season. That's hard to beat. He should have won the ban on the order. Yeah, he had KDB behind him and he had, you know, a banging, informed Foden. By the way, Foden's been... He's even popping up defending as well, isn't he?

53:18Yeah. He's popping back with a head in the air. He's using every part of his game to his strength, and that's what I want to say. I think I said this yesterday, because City didn't have the post-season by their standards last season, and it's natural you forget about some of the players in the team. So when you talk about the Ballon d 'Or, or team of the season, or different things, it's almost like Haaland started the season. You go, oh yeah, Haaland, I forgot about him. But his numbers are still obviously off the scale. You said before you think he's the best striker in the world. I said yesterday I think he's on a different level to Aguero in terms of scoring goals you're comparing Harland to Harland aren't you every time that's what I'm saying was I right to say that you watch Man City more than me but I think even Aguero who was like unbelievable player this is I think this is a completely different level in terms of goals and finishing the thing with Aguero is it was the injury record so he'd get the thing is his numbers were just ridiculous I mean you look at the goals per minute I think with Aguero he could play 25 more games now out of retirement and not score and he'd still have the best goals per night.

54:18But now Haaland's getting there. I think he is outscoring Aguero. And I think Aguero said in an interview as well that he couldn't have been replaced by anyone better, to be honest. So, yeah, it's a tough debate because Aguero is one of our best ever players. But it's a nice debate to have, isn't it, when you've got... The question is, Luke, can he fire you to the title on his own? I'm almost thinking about we got with Van Persa. Yeah, I mean... Yeah, where everyone said he fired us to the title. I don't agree with stuff like that. Harry could agree with that. I think he's probably your main hope yeah that's what I'm saying like no one's really talking about us I know we had a bad start and I'm happy for everyone to you know slate is when we lose a few games but we've always every season pretty much we've won the league under Pep we've started badly so I'm not saying you know we're going to go and win a league but certainly you know only a few points off if we'd not conceded that goal against Arsenal we would actually be top of the league right now so yeah we're just happy to keep winning our games were you fifth or sixth?

55:13yeah I mean a few off the top I'm happy to just you know every City fan is just happy to just let everyone talk about everyone else and we'll just keep winning it's fine well you mentioned you felt Erland Harland was the best striker in the world or the Premier League certainly Scoles I want to come to you as a midfield player I was mentioning Declan Rice yesterday Gary was mentioning I say you know you probably could put Gravenberch in there I'm talking about like an all round midfield player not like a number 10 or who would you say was the best midfield player in the Premier League right now?

55:47Right now? Bloody hell, that's tough. I still don't class Kai Sido as an all round midfield player. I know he scored a great goal was brilliant the other day I got a little bit of stick from last year I almost thought about taking that back because I thought in the Club World Cup he was brilliant when I watched him a bit more I just prefer them controlling type of midfield players who play with a bit more style can score goals probably a little bit more often than Kassadu does I don't get me, it's a brilliant goal but you wouldn't be surprised if he didn't do that again for another 18 months, would you?

56:29Do you know what I mean? I think he's one of the very best at what he does, which is being a breaker-upper. He breaks the play up, which he's brilliant at. But I prefer the other types, like I said. I thought McAllister last year was absolutely brilliant. I thought he controlled a lot of what Liverpool did and I think they're missing that. How about Gamera? Bruno. Who? Bruno Gamera. Newcastle is unbelievable. Brilliant. I love Tonali as well. I love Tonali. I love Tonali at Newcastle. I was trying to think of a player Tonale especially I think he's been he can run I think he's been brilliant Marans as well very good I'd probably choose Tonale at this point best midfielder in the league yeah you were going to say Declan Rice over Declan Rice yes I think he's better than Declan Rice I don't think he jumped in there I don't think there's anything that Declan Rice can't do on a football pitch I think Declan Rice can do everything Tonale can I really like Declan Rice don't get me wrong I think he's got everything I just think too many times he takes too many touches of the ball I think he tries to look a little bit more stylish than he needs to do I think he's got physical attributes of brilliant I think he can be a boxer I think he can score goals I just don't think he does it enough I prefer Tonalo it's okay Flav I'm going to bring you in I wasn't sure if you were going to come back because Ben Ben did a great job.

57:53Well, he did a good joke. Yeah, he made a good joke. Can I just... Is that all he did? Yeah, he's all right. Ben, Ben... You went viral though, didn't you? Is that the one with the genes? Oh, you and him got a bit of a thing going on online, have you? I've ate too. Oh, does he? He's not available. Oh, honestly, he's one of the... He's one of the worst human beings I've ever seen. I spent five minutes in his company discussing human beings. No, Ben's a good mate of mine. He said, yeah, he said, he did a good job. I did have a word that say, you know, find it. a little bit, please. Excellent. Yeah, no, we're all quite happy with Alex going to Spurs at the moment.

58:27OK, new manager. We would all call it. I think we all expected that. Yeah. On the back of last season. Thomas Frank has made a great start results-wise. It was interesting because I saw Ben pop up on my socials and he was talking about some Tottenham fans. He was getting upset about some Tottenham fans almost complaining about the actual performances and he couldn't get his head round. Is there a feeling that Spurs fans aren't happy with something about Thomas Frank? If there was a criticism, it would be just the style of play and the chance creation being an issue. You got booed off against Wolves.

59:03I've literally said a sentence. I was about to explain them. Just saying. I know, you're correct. I don't think we... I don't really remember that. But what happened, essentially, is in his infancy as a manager, he decided to shore up the midfield, make us difficult to beat. And that meant playing without a recognised number 10. So Saar was playing in the 10, Berraval was playing in the 10. And it does result in a very kind of solid, difficult to beat, but not a great brand of football. And so it's really about getting points on the board, really, and making sure it's making us difficult to beat, which was the direct opposite of what we'd gone through last year.

59:46So if you can't see that there is this transitional period at Tottenham, and he has to get the best out of players aren't necessarily right for the style of football he wants to play, then you're being very harsh on Thomas Frank. You saw a big difference, I thought, at the weekend when we actually had Javi Simmons, who is a recognised number 10, and a winger in Odebeer. And it was a little bit more balanced. But thus far in the season, we've had to play midfielders in a 10 role that aren't suited to that role. But it will be fine. It's a part of a process. We're currently third in the league, I think, fourth in the league.

1:00:22I think at the start of the season, Rory and I was having a conversation and I said fifth and he laughed in my face. I don't think you should be laughing now. Should you? No, is the answer. And so we're in a good spot. The recruitment in the summer has been sensational. It went under the radar, the kudos transfer. There was a West Ham fan on a particular podcast who said that our pants pulled down. and that is ridiculous. This kid is very good. That was a great sign. And Paulinho... You've got to keep them two-centre-ass fit, haven't you? Yeah. But then you've got Saliba and Gabriela need to be fit as well for them to win the league.

1:01:02You do require your best... Arsenal, Remfrey and now. Yeah, what is that about? Oh, you've been asking. Remfrey. Hey, Arsenal. You're just talking about Spurs. Well, no, I hate Arsenal as much as I love Spurs. So they're always going to be there or thereabouts. but yeah no but it's a point though isn't it Saliba and Gabriel are important to your title winning challenge yeah we've got more depth than you've got but yeah yeah but that's not the point I'm trying to make is everyone needs their best players Liverpool won the league because largely injury free so yeah Romero and Van der Ven are really good I love Romero I think he's a nutcase isn't he just because chat is brilliant I love watching him and he's actually calmed down he's been made captain and you know there was question Marks about is his temperament right but he is outstanding.

1:01:47I love him. I can imagine my fans of other football clubs find him a bit of a shithouse. But if he's your own, you love him to be. You said there that you had a great summer that had gone under the radar. Is that you giving a backhanded compliment to Daniel Levy? I respect what Daniel Levy has done for Tottenham Hotspur. I'm also happy that he isn't there anymore. And how much he was involved in that recruitment I could only guess. What are you trying to do?

1:02:19Well, my job here, as you might not be aware, is to pivot to different questions. So I use a little bridge so I can use Daniel Levy. Apologies. I actually thought I did really well. Listen to one of your answers. I thought I can use that to bring Daniel Levy and then we'll get to, you want new owners, don't you? So I actually did my job really well. You got my back up. You put me on the back foot. I wasn't expecting Daniel Levy questions. I hadn't prepared for them. It's all for my job. Yes, so, yeah, I mean, we have effectively a new structure at the club in that the Lewis family, Vivian Lewis and Charlie Lewis, are now kind of effectively running the football club with Venkatesham underneath them.

1:03:02And now there was a£4.5 billion bid, which was genuine, which meant£3.3 billion would essentially buy Enix shares and there'll be an eye-watering 1.2 billion to spend on players and infrastructure. And then Enikov has obviously gone, nah. You don't need to spend anything on infrastructure. It'll always be better. It's a stadium, the training ground for the last five years. I think it's other things like women. Yeah, you're right. But maybe it's just players. But the women's team as well, I guess. But when you're a fan and you're in 1.2 billion, you're like, oh, come on. Now, finally us. Finally us.

1:03:36And Enikov have gone, nah. you're not going to get everything, all your dreams realised. We're just going to stick around. Anyway, they may well operate in a different way from Daniel Levy. Daniel Levy's issue was always being passive and not aggressive in the transfer market. If come January or summer next year, we should be in the conversation to be buying Adam Wharton and Semenyo. That's how we need to be operating. We would never have been operating like that under Daniel Levy. But it was interesting. the amount of interest in Tottenham and the size of the numbers. Do you think they will sell?

1:04:15Yeah, inevitably, that's what they're there for. I just think they're going to get more than 3.3 billion in five years' time. So, yeah, I mean, I think inevitably we will be bought by some nation state or an American consortium as everyone else. But what we do, it is a bit depressing, yeah. What we do need to be wary about as a Premier League is the fact that I think there's 13 or 12 American owners and you get to 14 suddenly have voting rights and that could very quickly shift how the Premier League functions and games abroad in America could quickly follow. So while I have nothing against American owners at all, I think a collection of 14 in the Premier League could potentially sway decision-making in a way that isn't good for the Premier League.

1:05:08Well, another club who have American owners... See what I did there? Sorry, I get it now. I apologise. Adam, Manchester United. Yeah. I mean... That's till last. Where are you? Hang on. Oh, nice one. You've got to share it. You're done. You're always both youthful. Always. Adam, where are we? I mean, listen, it's an international break that many people thought could be, you know, maybe the end of the manager. That could maybe come the next international break. I mean, do you feel as a Manchester United fan, you're always just basically, it feels like you're one game away from a crisis? We're just on the edge at the moment.

1:05:50And like, we haven't won back-to-back games under him. And I think that's the most evidence you need in terms of, does this system work and does it work consistently? And one of the things that frustrates me a lot is, he's constantly talking about, I'm not going to change, I'm not going to change, I'm not going to change. Well, you have to change something. whether it's like why does your philosophy or your beliefs in a football team have to be wed to one formation or one system and people keep talking about Glasner's systems working well but he's probably giving different instructions to his players within that system and therefore it works and I feel like the manager has to do that and it's far too often where I look at his team selection and I just think again it happened with the goalkeeper for a long time and I look Sendlom and played on the weekend albeit against Sunderland and he looked really good it'll be a true test for him at Anfield and how he gets on there.

1:06:37But constantly with the goalkeeper, he just kept picking Altai by India when he was making mistakes. Constantly picking Ugarte and Bruno in midfield when it's clearly not working. Every time I see Kabimeno on the bench, I just feel like not even watching the game. There's a lot of decisions that are happening where you're going, this is insane that we're keeping doing this because we're not getting the results. And we've seen that. Obviously, it was a good result and a good performance against Sunderland. They started well, but still it was just Sunderland. No offence to them. But yeah, I thought Mason Mount looked good in that.

1:07:11And I think he's very important to what the manager wants to do. I think Brian and Bumo's look good. It's good to see Sesko warming up a little bit. But like you said, we're one game away from disaster every single week, it feels like, and we've got Liverpool next. Adam, you said on social media, you don't think Ameren wants this job anymore. Because if you want the job, surely you're going to change something that changes the results, right? if every week you're going out you're doing the same thing and we're losing and then you're going yeah we're losing but I ain't changing that tells me you're ready to get sacked because if you don't change you're going to get sacked and I just feel like sometimes when the dust settles if he does get sacked in a couple of months or something he'll be sitting there going maybe I should have done this maybe I should have done and it's too late then like do it whilst you're in the job and obviously he's a young manager who's still learning but have some fight for this he just got to the point now where he's said it that often.

1:08:03I don't watch his interviews anymore. If he does it, he can't. He just can't. I'll tell you a prime example. You talk about changing systems and why you're playing all this rubbish. But when they played Brentford away, Keith Andrew changed his system to win a game. Set feet sculpture. Yeah, and they beat them 3-1. You can't carry on. If you carry on the way we are, losing games every other week, there's only one way to go. I can see where it comes from sometimes because obviously if you're him and you see we're 2-1, Bruno misses a penalty, you probably can justify that. Bruno scores that, we'll probably go on and win it.

1:08:39But we didn't. And we can't keep doing that every game. Arsenal, if the keeper doesn't make a mistake, might go on and win it. Yeah, but we didn't. And it feels like every game we've got those excuses now. And it's almost like he's seeing things that nobody else is. I feel like we've got to the point with him now, do you know where we don't want to talk about sacking managers all the time? I mean, United, I think they do give managers enough time. He hasn't been booed, like, once. No, they'll never get his name every week. That's what I'm saying. He'll never get booed. And the fans, it wasn't until that Brentford game where I thought, this is the period now where it might be.

1:09:15He's getting a little bit too much time. It almost feels like a matter of time before it does come to an end. It felt, we did Monday Night Football show after that, and I actually said on the show, and it's not a thing that you're probably doing pundrity that much. Obviously, you know, you say, oh, man, I don't like the word sacked. I never say this manager should be sacked. There's something about that word that I think sounds a little bit disrespectful, you know, it's a man's job. But I think sort of saying things like it feels untenable. It feels like it's not good for both parties. And I was a little bit there.

1:09:47And I do think it's inevitable that this is going to happen probably before Christmas time, January time. I've said this for a long time but we're 50 games in just look at this status unbelievable for a Manchester United manager 50 games as the Man United manager he's only scored two more goals than he's conceded do you know what I mean? in 50 games it's a positive goal difference I haven't seen one of them in a long time positive two goals you've only got to look at that guy's barnet as well it's like you know what I mean that's a video hold on your manager ain't got one so it's relaxed he didn't have one a couple of years ago I just...

1:10:27I just can't believe that it's almost... I know that... We've got... Pressure's so clear as well on him. When you see him, it's like he's under pressure. And there's times where he's just sat in the dugout like, oh my God, what am I doing here? But he said something about a lot of these players are still scarred from the past. And he keeps talking about confidence. And they don't have the confidence. We just beat Chelsea. You think, all right, we played against 10 men for half an hour. But we beat Chelsea, who are a decent team in the league. and after the Brentford game, he goes, they weren't confident.

1:10:56It's like, hold on a minute, you're going on like that, some external thing that you can't control as a manager. If you're giving your players instructions that they're happy with, if you're playing in positions that they're comfortable in, they're going to be far more confident. Like, you have control over the confidence of this team so much, and for him to come out and almost go like, it's up to them to be confident, I thought that was weird as well because... Well, talk about confidence, I just want to ask you, Adam, and you, Scolesy, I know it just happened in the last week or so and it happens to all clubs you lose a player you say he's not good enough and all of a sudden he starts playing well somewhere else he's scoring goals that feels like it happens to Man United maybe it's just a coincidence but it feels like it happens to Man United a lot more than other clubs what do you think the reason is that for that people find it so tough to show them true selves at Man United I think obviously we've chopped and changed managers which doesn't help if you're a player that's been playing for one manager then the manager changes and he's asking that's the same at every club yeah of course of course yeah but I think the major thing is the pressure.

1:11:52And of course there's pressures elsewhere, but I think the amount of eyes that you have on you, you are always talking about Man United. It might be Liverpool and Spurs are playing, but you'll spend half an hour dedicated to Man United. We have all the ex-legends getting bollockings off the manager. So it's their fault. No, I'm just saying, the pressure's massive. If you're playing for the club and every single person's talking about it all the time, whether they're non-fans or not... Man United are one of the people. It is, yeah, you've got to get used to it and you've got to be able to play for it.

1:12:18It's mad that they sort of employed a novice, though, then, isn't it? Your club is gigantic but this manager just had no track record in dealing with attrition. To be fair, you know what, look, again, Sport in Lisbon aren't as big as Manchester United but what he dealt with when he went there, I remember the players were getting beat up in their training ground and stuff by their ultras. He walked into a club that was crazy at the time, he settled it down and he won the league with them. He also had a high turnover in players and he also relied a lot on youth and one of the things that he's not done at United is give some faith to the youth.

1:12:49If somebody is older a lot of playing and they're not performing for you go and get some of the younger lads because you'll be able to coach them a little bit more they'll be more open to your ideas like Van Aar used to do he had Donald Lovett all these luck playing Tyler Blackett and stuff and he was like okay those players haven't gone on to become Man United great but at that time they did the job for him because he could give them instructions and they'd do it they never had no preconceptions of oh nah I play like this or I want to play like that they just wanted to play for Manchester United and I feel like he's missed that a little bit as well because you've got some good young players in the academy coming through Scholes if you've got two weeks for an international break now and you're Ruben Amaran and you're going to Anfield if you were thinking okay forget the big picture because it almost feels like he's going game to game yeah he's got to think about trying to get some out of it from Anfield I'd just be thinking about drawing the game find a way somehow to stop them from scoring now that's a totally different mentality from what I'm saying about Arsenal going to Liverpool or someone else going to Liverpool where you're going to win the league but United are in such a rut I can't remember the last time they won a big game Adam or a game that meant a lot possibly City last year maybe unless you can't Chelsea you just unfortunately this group of players have got that much in a bad rut you've got no confidence that they're going to get you out of it you feel almost it's almost predictable they'll go there and get beat Well we have been a little bit better in those beginning like you say we haven't got many results I know what you mean and everyone's raving about the Arsenal game we were great against Arsenal we got beat I think we did alright at Anfield last season it was a 2-2 at Anfield last year wasn't it we should have won it as well I think Leitcher scored quite late and we just didn't Harry Maguire have a big chance did he cross it Harry Maguire or did he have the chance he was our best son of father last year still is Sesko's looking alright though, man and that's the thing it's difficult to be positive and confident about some of the good things that you're seeing I think Mbumo's looked good since he's got there I think Cunyar in Spouse has looked good Sesko's starting now and I think his link-up play with Mbumo against Sunderland was quite good but it's hard to get excited about those things because far too often the midfields non-existent Yeah, you talk about recruitment and you think we'll buy a 6 '5 centre-forward but we won't play any wingers trust him the ball it's all a mess who would you want to be sacked them I just want to just forget about football again I'm just done I can't be bothered anymore with this whole thing man Southgate I'll give up my season ticket I just can't be bothered with this anymore just get Wazza and Scolzi in and if you want then you will be fucked probably a Glasner or Areola or something but it's like you bring them in and it's cool Eddie Al.

1:15:44Eddie Al. Oh, nah, thanks. Why not? Him and his mate? I'm not sure about his mate, but definitely him. Yeah, I don't want either of them. I think that is a little problem for Eddie Al. I think Eddie Al is a brilliant manager. And as number two, he's obviously a character and they get on really well. But I just think a lot of fan bases, what you've just said there, would say the same about, they'd like Eddie Al, but maybe not his mate. I just thought, you know, what's really refreshing about Man United fans, and it's the same with Ten Hag, is that there has been no booing. There's no been attacking, no calling for his head.

1:16:17It might be the right thing that he does leave and he probably isn't good enough to do that job. But United fans are always behind him. Unlike Arsenal fans. Did you see what you said the other day? Unlike the Arsenal fans, who have turned on Arteta already this year. Already? Yeah, after the day. Who's done that? You lot. Idiots that are looking for clicks, not real Arsenal fans. I don't know. They all seem to be. Amarim said something similar to that like I've been under pressure before the fans are still singing my name and stuff and it made me think like yeah don't matter shall we shall we start a bit we've been actually fixed up for a bit they're in that period where the manager now where he's probably going on a little bit too long like it did with Tonehawk now look don't get me wrong we don't want anybody sacked and we want him to come out of it we want it to be good but the more it goes on it's because we have that Fergie thing as well his speech obviously we've been through about 10 managers since then but him saying stand by your manager and then obviously when Fergie first arrived he didn't do anything for a long time in terms of winning trophies and a lot of people kind of cling to that like what if it's just around the corner and we let go he probably got the most shit out of any manager Sir Alex at the start didn't he he was under real pressure he was getting I remember seeing fans booing him as he was walking down the line nobody gets that now they don't get that now Mark Robbins which is good at the new.

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1:19:21We're talking about the manager who replaced Sir Alex Ferguson, David Moyes, brings me to Baz. It's almost like you're good at this thing. It's for you, Flav. Baz, I described yesterday's win almost like a typical Everton win, you know, that I've seen over so many years. Probably not great football, the opposition, you think, oh, you're on top, and then before you know it, you use the energy of the crowd, you're on top of them, it's aggressive, the goals are perfect sort of, not Everton goal, but that type of goal in that type of game. Would that be fair to sum that up? Yeah, well, I mean, we could have been could have been 3-0 down before we equalised they played really well Everton's probably Everton's worst performance I'd say at home definitely in the first half and he had to change it at our time and he did he stuck Alcaraz on and Betta won and the energy went up and after Mateta missed a great chance and after he missed that I felt like there was only going to be one outcome I really did and once we equalised there was only one team going to win it and we had to leave it late and we got to be honest we had a little bit of luck that we didn't have against Villa and we battered Villa at home I don't know how we didn't win the game.

1:20:28Apart from 10 minutes on Monday against West Ham, we should have won that game. Should have been out of sight on that one. So that felt like yesterday, a little bit of payback for the other two games, that's fair. How pleased are you with the new stadium? Because I thought you were, not just Everton, but I think it's always this feeling that new teams struggle going to a new stadium. It doesn't feel like they're home yet. They've got to sort of grow into it. You haven't lost a game at home yet, have you? No. No? And the atmosphere yesterday, I suppose, that's probably the first big moment in the stadium in terms of a last-minute winner?

1:20:57What was that like? Yeah, well, I said on the stuff we did after it, we needed that sort of cement, that you're placed there when you have a big moment, a last-minute winner, and obviously Grealish is unbelievable, so for him to get it, it was amazing. But it feels, I don't know, it's settled in really well there. It's settled in. Like when there was a discussion about our atmosphere before, I think often most teams' atmospheres crap around until there's a goal or there's a tackle or whatever. The away team always seem to, they go and maybe they've had a couple of sherbets before the game but the away fans always sound better wherever they go and I think we've had that at times we've also had the loudest recorded noise when the team scored so it can be a big thing when you score a goal but I think they've talked to it really well and to be fair, Moise is brilliant at that getting the crowd engaged he hasn't took a misstep really since he came in he's not been perfect What about the Wolves?

1:21:51I was going to say away from Owen Wolves the other week that really got under the skin of the supporters it did and I think the biggest thing with that was we didn't have to we didn't have a game for we played the Tuesday and the next game wasn't until a Monday can I defend not defending because I totally get where you're coming from you've played Liverpool a few days before Liverpool fans 1995 you know you were still a blue didn't know it I've seen you get see the emotion you get that you get that every time you go to Banfield or whatever. And then a few days later, you go to Wolves and you think, okay, this is the, you know, chance of maybe, who knows.

1:22:31But I always feel for managers in that, when he makes a few changes, I know the supporters say, we've got no European football, what do we need to rest for? We've got no midweek games. But I think sometimes as a manager, when you're buying players, especially ones who aren't nailed on starters, part of getting them to your club is like, they've got to know somewhere where they're going to get their own football from so even when the goalkeeper comes in for pick people say why do you need to rest the goalie he's not resting me but he's probably said to that goalie you'll play Carabao so he's probably fighting with someone else to get him you'll play the Carabao Cup games I can see it from both sort of sides of the support I can understand how upset you are but I can also see it from the manager's point you're really thinking I've told him that when I've signed him I've got to sort of try and give him a go the biggest problem with that is he played Mansfield at home and Mark Travers played no issue and I think them kind of games sound.

1:23:25But I think when you're making seven, I know Wolves changed their team, but they're struggling anyway, aren't they? So whatever they did, there'd be a boost and the ground was half full and all that. I think if he'd made four changes and I think he had to play Tierno Barry because he had hardly any minutes, he had to give Alcaraz a go because he hasn't been in. But he put Seamus, I mean, I love Seamus Coleman, unbelievable, but he played him at left back. Still playing? Yeah, player coach. He's never, ever going to play Seamus Coleman at left back, really. and he's got Adam Asner who's a young player who's not getting any minutes anyway.

1:23:55Now the manager might turn around and go yeah but he ain't good enough at the moment. It's like where are you giving these minutes to then? It was where he made the changes and he's left people in who were never going to play. Like Dwight McNeil can't get on a pitch in any game now and that was evident when Moyes come in he was going to be I felt he was going to be moved on. But he played him that night but he's never going to bring him on because he's about the fifth, sixth choice now so it was there was lads who could have played who will play. Do you know what I mean? It's like four changes I thought he'd make that night and he made seven.

1:24:25And then you get beat. If you win, you go, look how strong our bench is. We didn't. We got beat. We probably shouldn't have got beat the way it was. We've hit the bar. The airkeeper's made some good saves. We conceded at the last minute. But the frustration is there. And I think that, but that was the, for me, that was the first time we've sort of, since he'd come and we've gone, you've got that one wrong. And then the one thing, and I love Moisey, but the one thing that annoyed me was he, he walked into the press conference on the Friday and he had a cob on because he knew a few people had had a go at him and I would have liked him to have just gone got that wrong the other night maybe made too many and he did and he sort of went yeah we got knocked out we move on and it's like the fans are a bit like just put your hand up maybe but the big positive has been Jack Grealish should he be in the England squad he should like again I'm not nearly that bothered about England you know want them to do well in the finals and stuff but I don't understand how he can't be him and he's one player of the month he's four assists one goal Tussle's left a couple of players out to you thinking, how's he not got any England squad?

1:25:24You know, that kind of thing. Bellingham, Foden. Bellingham, Foden, who are playing there. Bellingham's coming back, but Foden's playing really well. But I'd have Grealish in. Listen, he's come in, and we covered this loads on our show in the summer, and some Evertonians were like, oh, you know, we don't want him, he's a party. And I'm thinking, that's not what I've heard. You've got a few of them, haven't you? Well, he likes it. Listen, I've seen your audience there from a brief episode back in. he likes to enjoy himself but he's a hard working player I can't believe how hard working he is when you see him up close you see these players a couple of times a season when they come to your ground or you're playing and sometimes you take notice and others you don't but the work rate he puts in he's unbelievable he's a really genuine lad it seems on and off the pitch he's been fantastic for Everton absolutely that's why it must be frustrating for you to go out the cup because with a player like him playing well you can beat anyone on a day our problem is I think he'd done a lot in the summer.

1:26:18He'd got nine players in. He didn't get a centre for another foot. Barry's coming to a young strike. I think he wanted another sort of in-between him and Beto. We need a full-back. We saw that yesterday. Crystal Palace, two touching corner flags that far up the pitch. So there's a little bit of work needing to be done, but it is what it is. Scores, we want to come to you. We've just mentioned Tuchel's England squad. He's left out some big names. I mean, huge names there, especially Bellingham's the big one. and he's supposed to be the star one for England. What were your thoughts on it? I was a little bit surprised.

1:26:51They did play well in the last game, didn't they? I suppose they were really good and them lads, probably none of them, deserved to come out of it. I just think them three players especially, along with Adam Watten, I don't think he got picked, did he? No. They have to be in his squad. They'll be in his squad for the world. If you look at the squad now, you'd say Virg have no chance of winning a World Cup. Now, even with these three players, and I think probably three of England's better players, it's still a big ask but it gives you more chance of him winning the cup with them players in obviously Bellingham's the one who he's fit now so he has missed a little bit of football but he's fit bring him back in he's also he's not got that many squads now until the World Cup actually begins I think they'll probably have the November break March one and I think that's it it's the World Cup so he needs to try and get these players playing I thought it was a little bit like what were you going to say?

1:27:43Yeah it's him Go on get him started Tuchel Yeah You don't like him He won you the Champions League It's a different conversation Spoil He obviously shouldn't be the England manager Yeah but that's a different I mean I'm not I don't think I'm just obviously I'm a father manager It's just obviously not an England manager But you know you know what you said about Bellingham and you can rationalise it that way but it makes no sense it's so hypocritical because Ruben Loftus-Cheek's out Ruben Loftus-Cheek's been out missed the last two AC Milan games and he's in the squad so injury doesn't matter there Bellingham's the injury and he's out like nothing makes sense I feel like he's just he's just sort of gone to war on this for no reason with Drew Bellingham like what are we discussing this for why on earth are you not just including him I think he's done something that we we see probably a lot in club management probably not in international football where he's actually sending a message to his squad he knows he's going to be in the squad nine times out of ten he's going to be in his team but I think he's sending a message because listen who knows what goes on behind closed doors when they've been away but I don't think it's been a great start for Thomas Tuchel in terms of results or performances It's been terrible Yeah, but what I'm saying it felt like the last squad it was the team we played the second day We beat Serbia We beat Serbia but prior to that we beat Andorra and they lost the Senna go and that might be his point his point might be OK, this is the first time I've felt like I've got some sort of connection some team they've gone out and performed twice really well I'm going to pick that again it's just a little message to some of the big name players because he actually said which I thought was really interesting as well if Madiweki was fit Saka wouldn't have been in the squad so Saka was only in the squad because Madiweki was out and it was a case of this squad this has done really well in the last two games and there's one thing that he does that I've never seen an England manager do before in that when we were in the squad there was no unless you were going to the tournament it would be a set number but an England manager would pick the squad and he'd just pick everyone in so sometimes there might be 28 in it or 30 it's like I'm not going to upset anyone just pick everyone and whatever whereas it almost feels like he picks this is the number for the squad we're not having any extra body because sometimes in training you do an England training everyone's fit you'd have 11 v 11 there's someone on the side of the pitch but it feels like he could have easily put those players in but I think he has a strict number maybe to do with his training schedules as well but I just think he's sending a little message message around the squad.

1:30:10It's not just about what you do on the pitch. It's what you do off the pitch as well. And I don't think it's a bad thing. But who benefits here? Like, Jude Bellingham's an icon. Like, Jude Bellingham is the reason, if England are ever going to win silverware in this generation, it's probably Jude Bellingham. Do you think even at club level, if you were at Chelsea, the star player should be able to do... No, no. Obviously, there's something he's not happy about. Let's be honest. There's something about Jude Bellingham, whether it's on the pitch or off the pitch. I don't know what that is. that a manager of that level who's a Champions League winner manager, who's a manager at the top level, there's something he sees there that he's not entirely happy with.

1:30:46Yeah, but that's nonsense, isn't it? Because he's picked... You're not too much going on behind. None of us do. All we want to see is England win a tournament in America. England are far more likely to win a tournament in America with Duke Bellingham in the squad and Jordan Henderson nowhere near the squad. Like, this isn't... Bellingham will be in the squad. This isn't the squad for the world. As Jamie said, he is just sending a message, isn't he? Yeah. It's a little kick up the back. Right now, you come into the squad, you've got to earn it you've got to be isn't that a good thing that everyone doesn't feel doesn't feel like they're a guy Jamie I think that's a good thing and I think if that would have happened to me or some of the players because there's a lot of squads I just got picked for that really probably didn't deserve to be in playing wise I think if they'd have left me out then yeah right fucking hell this is you've really got to be at it now and I think he's just doing the same with these three but do you not have to treat it like a a club environment with the World Cup so close in that you've got to build relationships you've got to build style of play, etc.

1:31:39If you're dropping players that you intend on picking, then where's the continuity there? Where are you building that team? I know what Scorsese are, but we can talk about building for the World Cup now, right? But I always think that November international break to March feels like a season. It's almost like a different... When you get to the March international, right, ask people how England got on in October and November. No one will have a clue who played, who scored, What about the games? But what about just the rapport? The team spirit? The rapport? The camaraderie? Isn't that why he's picked that?

1:32:12He's built that in the last camp. But the players that are going to have the camaraderie will be nowhere near America with a bit of luck. And the players that will be going to America won't be having the camaraderie now. We're talking one camp. I don't think it's going to make too much difference. But he's a one-tournament manager. This time next year, Tuchel's not the England manager. Good riddance to that. I think it's a mess anyway. I really do. Do you think Bellingham's gutted that he's not going to slap to play Azerbaijan for the World Cup qualifiers? They're playing Wales. Who? We're playing Wales.

1:32:38Yeah, he doesn't care. He plays enough football. He's just come back from... Wales playing Azerbaijan. I think Bellingham will care. Neither of us know the answer to this, though. I think it hurts his ego. I think it hurts his ego by not being in the squad. I think he sees himself as the main man for England. You could argue that he is. I think that there's been some sort of fallout between Tuchel and Bellingham, but it's crucial that he sorts it out. Have we finished? Not really, but... We've run all, but listen. that is another episode of the Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet make sure you join us next time

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