Mark Goldbridge Has Had Enough of Manchester United! | Overlap Daily

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3:34Can you remember St. Greavesy? I can. I'm old enough to remember them. It was a show back in the day. Was it called On the Ball or something? Yeah, something like that. Or St. Greavesy? They did it. Anyway, every time a player on a Saturday, because every game was a Saturday, did something wrong, they presented you with a mug. And 34 years ago, I half-vollied a ball up the pitch and the referee was in the way. He got in the way. It hit him on the back of the head, knocked him out, and I got presented with that mug. and that mug is 34 years old and on the back it says, it's a funny old game. Don't be dropping it, lad.

4:19No. Oh, God. I'm so careful with that. That's one thing I'm never going to drop. What happens when I was on the Everton's training ground when I was a coach and the only time I seen something get hit in the back of the head with a ball was the gardener, the boy who was on the tractor, was driving. So we were at the halfway line. John Stones. puts a ball down and the boy's driving behind the goal and the tractor away from him so he must be 55 yards away he's got the rotor on cutting the grass he's in the tractor driving like that and John Stone says watch this and he hit this pass you've never seen anything like it like a bloody three iron that's close 55 yards but he's moving away in the tractor he's moving away that way and the ball's following him he doesn't see it coming hits the boy in the tractor in the back of the head and I'm no kidding you the boy goes like this off the thing like that a wee bit like that and then gets stunned and I'm no kidding you he was that close to falling off the tractor into the blades we were all like this that's true that John Stones I've never seen a pass like it so he'd have been around he'd have got a mug yeah he'd have got a mug he'd have got lifted wow because he'd have been an attempted murder or a murder because the boy would have fell back into the rota premeditated when somebody just smacks that bone oh no oh that's close that's close right in the back of the head so exciting times for you mate yes being here and the new job and the new job yeah I mean I've got to admit Glen Torren why Duncan Ferguson to Glen Torren I mean I was a bit surprised but I know you're passionate about being in the game so what's the what's the connection with the job well I've been out of work now on the coaching side for a couple of years now and I've had one or two opportunities big fella but not a lot not a lot of opportunities but one or two that just weren't quite right I'm surprised I'm surprised after what you've done when you went in at Everton and everything but yeah at the end of the day it's football isn't it it's very hard to get a job it's very hard to get a managerial job especially when you're at my age as well you know what I mean because really everything's like a young man's game now isn't it so it's very tough to get a job had a few interviews had a few chats didn't quite happen for me so yeah over the in the last couple of years you know what I mean so I've been doing other things haven't I things like this I've been doing a wee bit of appearances and it's been good but I've still got that passion still got that passion to be a coach and a manager I think on my last job I lost my job through administration I don't know if you know that but I lost the job through administration so I've got that wee scratch you know what I mean I've got that wee itch sorry that wee itch that I wanted to scratch you know what I mean so that's why I took the job really and to be fair they've got a chance they've got a wee chance you know what I mean to do something and I've got passion for being a manager and a coach so I wanted to get back out in the grass Yeah well good luck mate I'm sure you'll be a success I think it's a massive coup for Glen Torren by the way Well it is just it's like well it's like I call it like chocolate and flour period at the moment flowers and chocolate you know what I mean where everything's fine at the moment Rosie you know what I mean but it's all of a sudden you've got to go into the games you've got to get results it's a demanding club that needs results historically they've won but they've not won for a long time the league been 17 to 20 years they've not won the league but they've got a wee chance we're probably about the fourth best team in the league at the moment I want to come over and watch you if you can get me a couple of tickets because a good friend of mine Jim Magilton I worked for Northern Ireland on the 21s as their goalkeeping coach I did my brilliant I did my pro licence at Stranmillis University Jim was manager on the 21s he recruited me as his goalkeeping coach and he's manager at Cliftonville at the moment so you're in the same league so I'm going to come on How long did you do that job for?

8:11Two years Enjoy it? I did enjoy it yeah not only that I put a goalkeeping programme together for the kids coming out of school on day release yeah I could so yeah there's some great facilities Belfast is such a beautiful place I absolutely love it I used to fly over once a month and it was I really really loved it I've not seen much of it to be honest here I've only been into the stadium and back to the hotel so I've not seen it at all but I'll get myself out in the community soon enough. I'm sure everybody. I want to get a few victories first leg. Well, we wish you all the best, mate. I'm not going to hit if we lose.

8:49Welcome to Overlap Daily, brought to you by Sky Bet, bringing you all the football stories and conversations you need to know about. We're absolutely delighted to have our long-term partners, Sky Bet, with us for the next chapter. Today on Overlap Daily, it's all Manchester United. We have Mark Goldridge, we have Mike Keegan, and Duncan has got himself another job.

9:25I was doing lots of prep yesterday, thinking like, what can I speak to? I'm glad somebody did it. What can I speak to Big Dunk about? But then last night, obviously, Manchester United. Obviously, this is the biggest talking point at the moment. And last night's performance. 4-1 to Como. No disrespect to Como, but... Spent a few quid, big fella, Como. But they're not Man United's level, obviously. Historically, they're not Man United. Come through all the divisions, didn't they? What did you actually make of that? And listen, the comments from the players and... Is there a trait happening at the moment?

9:59because I see Fulham, the players at Fulham have made noises about they're not happy with the training regimes and they're not happy with the manager's tactics. It happened last year at my club, Nottingham Forest, where certain senior players were rumoured to go above the manager. Sean Dyche has come in. Who was rumoured? Well, I don't know who the players were that were rumoured. It was rumoured as senior players had gone above the manager. Yeah. And then last night, we've had Martinez, we've got Bruno, we've got Tielemans making comments, throwing the manager under the bus. It's outrageous, honestly.

10:44I honestly cannot get my head around how a professional footballer can throw a manager under the bus like these players have done. I don't get it. Is it because players are more in control now? Or are they bothered? I have to question, is it because they're earning so much money that it's all about them? This is Manchester United we're talking about. For a player to come out and talk about their game tactics or their game plan is wrong. We should never mention things like that. I think Fernandes was completely and utterly out of order. I saw it last night. I mean, Man United got battered. But you've got to run around.

11:32But the Man United team are no physically capable way of running around. No? No. Because they've had bad recruitment. Their midfield cannae move. They played two midfield players up front. Telemans and Bruno. played them up front they had a bit of pace on the wide their team is slow it's a slow team so Carrick probably thought do you know what if we open ourselves up here we're going to get absolutely destroyed so he's probably thought in the game plan I'll sit in a mid block we'll sit there we'll be compact and we'll try and press when we can put a bit under pressure and because they got battered the guy who got dragged off and he's their captain he mouths off and makes it ten times worse for Carrick I would never dare throw one of my managers under the bus Keep your mouth shut Just go out on the pitch Roll your sleeves up I mean Bruno Fernandes is the captain He's got to get a grip of people around him surely You keep it in the dressing room don't you He's a wonderful player But he's a wee mouthpiece isn't he He's a wonderful player But to come out as your captain And say that man Come on Completely out of order I mean the wee Martínez a couple of weeks before And mouth off Where does this leave Michael Carrick at the moment I mean Well he's your captain so he's going to have to go in and speak to him I'm sure he probably already has and pull him in and you know see this is out of your this can't happen you know what I mean but as you said before players have got the power the manager loses his job always doing to the manager not the guys up the stairs when they're eating their food and their nice hospitality it's the manager who loses his job the players are staying and remain there and it's the manager that will go and they'll probably if he doesn't get a result in the next couple of weeks, two or three weeks, like all managers I suppose, if they didn't get the results, they're going to sack him, aren't they?

13:21He's the one that goes, the players remain, but for your captain to come out of the television and mouth off your game plan, just because he, to be fair, I just thought they were physically incapable of pressing through the front, but yeah, it is a way to do it, but that means you need your defence up in the halfway line, is Maguire going to sit in the halfway line, is Maguire going to go away in with our centre forward, and what's going to be left behind them so you can see the thinking if they've got quick forwards they had youth they spent a few quid their recruitment has been great Man United's new and you've got to sell players at their peak so Bruno should have went last year Salah should have went the year before he went you've got to time it properly as a manager and that's a great thing at Sir Alex Ferguson you've got to get rid of your players when they're at their peak know when they're gone like that because that's a great timing for a manager so I think my United should have got rid of Bruno last year when he was flying and I'm not saying he's completely gone but you've got to time it you know what I mean but if he's causing you a problem behind the dress then you get rid of him don't you as soon as you can if he's coming out and putting out in the in the press and mouthing off and bad mouthing your manager you know the club and Martinez was doing it before that you get rid of him out of order you get rid of him I said to you with a bang my hand didn't he he was causing problems he got rid of him because he could smell a rat The manager needs power.

14:47He needs that support from up above, that you've got the power, and the players need to understand that the manager's got the power. And this is the problem now. It's become leadership sharing. There's no one boss now. There's sporting directors. There's other people behind the scenes. There's people in players' ears. And now the manager's power is much less than it was. You have to somehow get results, gain power, and then you start getting rid of the players. What a wee bit of what Mikel's done at Arsenal. they stuck with Mikel Arteta Arsenal for the first two or three years when he wasn't winning but they stuck with him knew Mikel's got the power same with Sir Alex at Man United they stuck with him then he gets the power then he can do what he wants and that's what the clubs have got to get to if they believe that Michael Carrick is their man give him the power back him and he'll sort the dressing room out but unfortunately it doesn't work like that now there's sporting directors there's directors everybody's involved now and at the end of the day the easiest thing to do is to get rid of the manager.

15:46That's a great point. I had a manager. You've had managers. I had a manager. I don't want to pipe on a bit too much about Brian Clough, but there's a famous quote, if a player had a disagreement, how would you deal with it? He said, well, I'd invite him into my office. We'd chat for a couple of minutes. Then we would decide that I was right, and then he would leave. And I've just finished reading Martin O 'Neill's book. and another example, Martin O 'Neill come over from Ireland and he went to see the manager because his parents were coming over and his sisters. Well, the player was allowed two tickets, two complimentary tickets for the game, but he wanted his sister there as well.

16:26So he went to see the manager and said, I want three tickets. My sister's coming over as well. Brian Clough went out of the room, he come back in and he gave him four. And he says, no, I only need three. He goes, no, you need four because you're sitting with them. I pick the team, son. and that's like a manager who's in charge not the player who's in charge and I don't think there's enough of it No, nobody's got time now in their life there's no time now we can't even we can't even go to restaurants now and sit down and order a drink and order a starter and order food we don't want to do that now, it takes too long so we go to McDonald's we go to fast food change and get your food there's no time now social media the managers have no got the time like they had back in the day so with your guy Cloughey I had a boy at Dungeon United back in the gym who completely run the gaffe at Dungeon United Walter Smith, another one who had the power at Rangers Howard Kendall at Everton they gave him a bit of time, he come through Sir Eric Ferguson got time Arteta got time if you believe that Michael Carrick is your man gave him a bit of time, gave him a chance and get him to sort out the dressing room Would he wake up this morning, Michael Carrick Expecting the sack After the performance After the players Would it be a relief?

17:49No, I don't think it will be for him No, because he was a wonderful Football player, won a lot of things He's a battler, he's a fighter He'll believe in himself, he'll believe in his staff He'll want to get back into the training run today Or this afternoon and start putting things right I think that's what He'll be wanting to do, I don't think he'll be wanting wanting the sack no he'll be he's a Man United legend he want to continue and you just want another game as a manager you just want another game so they've got Bournemouth at home I take it so game another game and the manager will just want another game to turn it around and that's all you ask for is a wee bit of time of course back in the day managers got longer they got longer you never change your manager as much no you change your manager every six months, don't they?

18:37Crazy. It's tough to get that power in the dressing room as a manager now. Sorry to remind you of this. On you go. What is it like to get the sack? How do you feel? What's the next day like? Well, it's quite hilarious. That's the wrong word, hilarious. I don't think I've ever had the sack. Oh, so it was under different circumstances? We've Forrest Green, it was mere mutual consent because I wanted to leave because they brought in a young sporting director that was completely and utterly out of his depth. Right. Right? And why would you bring a sporting director into a team that was struggling in net divisions?

19:13All he was doing was asking me for my contacts. I was doing the job. Why would you do that? So for me, I lost my job in July at Forest Green. You don't lose your job in July. No. You lose your job in May. I took the pre-season training and because the sporting director came in, he wanted to bring his young people in. same thing so I actually said to the owner look you know me need to call this question you know what I mean I'm not happy you're not happy I can't get my players in this guy's blocking me and he said well so you want to leave then so I kind of backtracked a wee bit because I had a year pay off so I had a year pay off my contract so if I said to him I want to leave do you know what I mean it was like I was losing my year 7 space so I said no no and I didn't want to leave I wanted the sporting director to leave before he'd even started so I was trying to get him to say back me no him of course I never had the results because Forest Green couldn't they weren't a very good team so he stuck with what he believed in he went with a young sporting director and he came in and it was a disaster they got relegated to the Knicks division which is hard today with the budget they had I mean they come out of League 1 they went to League 2 and they got relegated to League 2 and that's hard today that if you've got a budget for, you know, a big budget.

20:35So, in the end, they did go rid of me. So yeah, it was a bit like that. Yeah, okay. But they did, I kept the statement the way it was, because I didn't want to give up my 12-month money. Absolutely. And then at Inverness, it was even worse at Inverness, because actually I lost my job through administration. So the club went skint. Right? they had no dough and so ten games into the season the administrators came in once I knew the administrators was coming in I worked for nothing so I gave up my wage I gave up my wage you know what I mean to try to help them out but anyway they came in and they wanted me gone and the staff and that gone and they wanted to start afresh that was their prerogative isn't it and the boy who came in you know did it his way and that's it so I actually lost my job to the administration the second time round I admire your passion for wanting to be in the game and carry on managing.

21:36It's not something I would want to do anymore. I worked at lower levels, but I haven't managed, so I don't understand what it's like to be at the head. I did caretaker manager for a little bit at Chesterfield. It wasn't for me. No. Because? You've done your badges now. I've done my badges, and I wanted a go at it. I was better as assistant manager because I was better between the players and the manager. Right. I was better at dealing with that. I bet you'd been good with the players. Yeah, and you'd report back to the manager things that you think you probably needed to know, but half the time, it's like, you know, I'm round the player, come on.

22:16And that was more for me. So I was an assistant at lower league clubs, Notts County, Chesterfield, Oldham Athletic, with John Sheridan. He took me everywhere because he knew that he could trust me. so he took me everywhere with him as a manager. Well, that's it. Loyal, pal. Very few loyal people in life in the internet. That's it. I love it. I love being on the grass. Because you've got to remember, my background is coaching. Even though people remember me as my player. I coached through Everton's Academy for 10 years. I was a coach. I never just stopped playing football and went into management.

22:47I stopped playing football. I retired at 34, went to Mallorca. Went and stayed in Mallorca for four years. And then they'd say, I need to start working here. It's ridiculous, you know what I mean? It's ridiculous. because you think you're an old man, don't you? But you're not. You're only a baby. So I wanted to get back into football. So I started my coaching journey at Evans Academy. So I worked right through it all. So I'd seen all levels, 12s, 13s, 14s, 15s, 16s, 18s. Then I got bumped up to the first team. So I loved the coaching. Is it something that you might do at Glen Torren? You might look for your connections with Everton from maybe a few young players on lawn?

23:19I tried. I tried. I tried to text Moise a few times. and he stopped answering my texts. He's got massive game zone and that. I'm going, you've got a centre forward for me, you've got a centre midfield player for me, you've got a bloody right back for me, you know. He's not got back to me now, so I say, look, I'm sorry, sorry boss, I'll not get in touch with you again. But yeah, look, you're always looking for good players, aren't you? Good players make you a good manager. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. You can help players. I always think I'm terrible at counting maths I was in remedial class at school I'm shocking for counting and spelling but if I practice somebody you taught me how to spell or how to count I'd get better wouldn't I I'd get better but I'd never be a professor I would never be a professor I'd never be that good but in football if you can find really really good players and get them in your team you then become a professor This episode is sponsored by Huel, official nutrition partner of Overlap Daily.

24:28OK, Tim, one less thing in football. We did it last week. What are we going to get rid of this week? I know that you've been thinking about this a lot, long and hard. I have, yeah. There's so much I want to get rid of in this game. So much wrong with a game at the moment. OK. But something that's really driving me potty. Go on. Holes in socks. Oh, I don't. See? You like that, don't you? I don't like it. I would have done it. Why? I've got big calves. What it does, it constricts. Yeah, I've got big calves. Hey, Jack, Jack, me and Jack had a calf off a few, a couple of years ago. It was a tight one.

24:59You might have just pipped me. But, yeah, I've got big calves. Honestly, that's why. Jack could pick everyone. I couldn't, I couldn't. Jack, don't. Imagine doing what Jack does in our day. Pull them down. Oh, well, yeah, so if I put my socks down, playing against you, and you're absolutely steaming into me, giving me six studs down my shin, no. We had to wear shin pads. I couldn't kick you. You used to jump so high. No. You know what I would do? and I'll be thinking about this actually, Tim, and this is an idea for someone. What they should do is, the reason why people cut holes in them, when people go, what are they cutting on?

25:29They're cutting because it's a restriction around your calf because the first thing that gets restricted when you're running around is you get cramp in your calf, right? Who says this? I know, it's a fact because it's happened to me. No, but they don't. These sports scientists, they know they're running the game, you know. I know they are. Anyway, every game at Liverpool, I should get a new pair of socks because once they get washed, they get so tight. So what someone should do, the panel with the calf they should create or just do something where like you know women's tights for instance they're a bit stretchy no yeah you do so like women so that panel like that just make it so it's got a bit more restriction like a women's tight but a little bit stronger so then it expands more so someone out there wants to do it create it and then we can maybe we'll go half half 50-50 or something like that but that's what Adidas Nike Skechers someone should create those socks and I'm telling you now how they clean up.

26:20But I'm not getting rid of them. I understand why people cut their socks, so I don't know about this one, Tim. I think we're going to disagree to disagree. I want it out. You want it out? I want it out, for sure. What are you going to do? So if a player come out with holes in their socks, what are you going to do? Give him a yellow card. Straight away, it should be straight red. Straight red. They have to wear the strap in the same colour as their sock now and all that, don't they? Why are they cutting holes in their socks? There's no reason why they do it. I know you said there is. Medical reasons.

26:46I've asked the guys. Who you are? Who you are? What guy? Loads of medical guys. What's his name? Kevin Lidlow. Yeah, all right, OK. He knows everything. He knows everything. But Bellingham, if Bellingham does it, it's all right. It's all right. Does he do it? Yeah, Bellingham does it. He absolutely does it. But no, I'm sorry. I ain't agreeing with this one, Tim. But next week, we'll have another one. We might agree. But this one, absolutely not. Can't agree with you. So I understand why people would do it. But someone... Game's gone. Someone go out there and create a little panel on the calf. Yeah.

27:17and then just sold a patent to Nike or Adidas, whoever does the kits. You know, when you used to cut your holes in your socks... I didn't cut them in. We won an ad. No, but you used to do it. You said you used to cut... No, I used to cut new socks. Yeah, new socks. You have to pay for them socks. No, no. Helmet used to give them... I don't know if people know. You know when the boys swap their shirts? Yeah. They have to pay for a new one. I know. No, that was at Tottenham. Nowhere else. Is that right? Yeah. Is that right? 100 quid? Yeah. 100 quid? 100 quid, but they're getting the shirt for nothing.

27:46I know. So where's the 100 quid going? Yeah. I've got... What's the best shirt you got? I never used to collect them. Did you? Nah. I've not got one shirt up in my house. No, one of my own even. I haven't even got... No, I don't know. You know the Invincibles? I swapped with Thierry that day when we drew... Was it 2-2? We drew 2-2. I swapped with Thierry Henry that day. I got his shirt. Where? And I gave it back to him, to be honest. Because I thought it was just a nice shirt to have for him. Where? Where'd you do it? not in full view of everyone. I was after the game. Yeah, I'd scored. It was all right.

28:19No one cared. But I also got Zidane's shirt. That was a good one. Who needs Tim Sherwood when you've got Zinedine Zidane? Could have got my shirt. If you'd have asked me my shirt, I'd have gone no. Who needs Zinedine Zidane when we've got Tim Sherwood? Poles in socks. We'll agree to disagree, Tim. The verdict's in. Footballers ripping their socks is, I'd say, sort of gone. You guys decide. Well, that's one less thing in football. And with Huell, we've got one less thing to think about when it comes to our nutrition. Huel is a complete meal in a bottle, high in protein, high in fiber, with all essential vitamins and minerals.

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32:00Well, Duncan, I'm very pleased to say that we've been joined by Mark Goldbridge. Morning, Mark. Morning, how are you doing? All right. So what do you think will be last night, Mark? I think it's... With your staff. Yeah, I mean, look, I think there's so many problems at Man United. And ultimately, a little bit like what's happening with Everton, I think, you know, you need new owners. but we're not going to get that. We can't make any transfers. I'd change people on the board but fundamentally, as sad as it is to say, I would be changing the manager this morning. I'm very surprised he's still in place.

32:34I think he's got all the signs of somebody that's completely out of their depth and I massively respect him as a player but I just think even in his post-match stuff last night, he's basically having a back and forth with his best player and getting into conversations about tactics that he shouldn't be getting into. Yeah, I'd make a change because I think United's season is just going to implode if we don't. Could I say something to you, Martin? Who would you want to get into the job? Who would you want to be the next manager then? Well, I think when I look at United this season, statistically, it's very obvious that we're not fit.

33:09But on the eye test, it's very obvious we're not fit as well. We looked so slow last night against... And with all due respect to Como, and they don't need my respect because they thrashed us, Italian football is not the Italian football I grew up watching in the 90s, apart from Inter Milan, you shouldn't be, that's quite unusual for an Italian team to destroy a Premier League side, especially on fitness levels, it's normally slower. So you need to get, for me, you need to change anyway because that classic managerial change, you get the bounce, you get the manager that comes in and say these players aren't fit.

33:38So that's one reason I'd do it straight away because we're not running enough. But I think we also tactically look so, I don't know what we're trying to do. So many players are playing out of position. So I like the idea of Nagelsmann from Germany. He's managed by Munich at Leipzig. He's very experienced in bringing younger players through and working on a budget, which is clearly going to have to happen at United. And we've also got a lad called Favell on the board who worked with him at Leipzig. So there's a bit of continuity there. So for me, and he's available. He's available now. So that's where I would go, yeah.

34:11I'm screaming at the telly last night, Mark. I'm watching it. I'm shouting, get up to the ball. Get up to the ball. nearest man, rule number one, get up to the ball, get up to the ball. No one's getting up to the ball. Can I just say something to you? I get that right and I get it and it's the instruction and the game plan and they shouldn't be talking at your turn, but can they get up to the ball? Can they press? Have they got their legs? Mark said they didn't feel they were fit enough, which is a big thing because the stats will obviously show that, how high intensity running, distance covered.

34:42But some players can't hear having to go any high intensity running because they just can't run. their team just can't run even though you want to say right let's set a high press ok so Maguire now he's got to sit in the halfway line Man United's defence has got to sit in the halfway line and all the players have got to then press and probably Michael probably thought you know if we do that there's going to kill us they'll play around us and they'll destroy us so he's probably thought I'll go a wee bit more conservative and I think what's happened to me is they've just physically if they're no fit or they've not got their legs to do it or they've not got their will to do it You know what I mean?

35:17So they just kind of do it. Is there any accountability for these players? Is there? Because I'm not seeing it. This is not Manchester United. No, and I think that, look, obviously, we've been going through this cycle for what feels like forever. United, certainly for 10 years. And the players have always had a lot of the blame. And I think players, obviously, aren't good enough. but as you both touched about there, the running this has happened in every single game I mean we've lost a halt we've lost from 2-0 down at home to Brighton in the Carabao Cup we've conceded in the first two minutes of both Champions League games in the last week the stats, as Dunk says, are terrible for United so you both played the game fitness levels in the summer for whatever reason, we're not prioritised and we're being dominated by teams.

36:17Now, I didn't play at the highest level, but if I was a player and I'm not up to the fitness level, it's a bit like getting in a boxing ring, isn't it? If I don't train as much as the other boxer, even though I'm as good, and I get knocked down, I'm looking at the coaching staff and I'm going, why have I not been prepared for this fight in the way that they have? And I think United, this is why I think Carrick needs to go because I like him, but it's very, very obvious that he's inexperienced. It's very, very obvious that he's not prepared the team as well. and it's very, very obvious that at this level, he isn't that level of a coach.

36:48And at Manchester United, you have to have standards. We have to be in Europe every year, and we've had our worst start to the season in 40 years, and we've just been absolutely battered. Battered. I mean, we had no shots on target at half-time and 37 % possession, despite going 1-0 down in two minutes. That's not a response. That's a collapse. Yeah, but it's always a go-to, and it changed the manager, you've touched on it because that's what happens. Man United have changed managers and changed managers and changed managers and changed managers. Does it go any better? I was just going to say, Mark, is there any managers that you think you shouldn't have changed and you jumped the gun too quick?

37:29Yeah, I mean, I put my hands up and I think any United fan would put their hands up because he was the first one really and we weren't really aware of what was going on at the club at the time but Jose Mourinho shouldn't have gone. When you look back on the type of coach he was and where we were as a team. I can't remember where we were in the league at that point, but it wasn't disastrous. And he'd just finished second and we sacked him three months later. So Mourinho shouldn't have gone. And you could make a case for maybe Ten Hag. We weren't far off the top four at that point and it was very early in the season.

38:02And I think you could certainly make a case. But then again, Amrim got sacked. What was Solskjaer? He had them quite good, didn't he? Had he just quite good at one point, I remember. Yeah, but I think Solskjaer did get a good two and a half years and by the end of it, you felt that he'd lost the players. So I think that's always a problem. But look, I get the point that you can't keep replacing managers, but I would also say Carrick has gone very bad very quickly since he got the job and no other manager has done as bad as this. I mean, look, I've said it many times. It's a bad start, isn't it?

38:37It's a really bad start in the league as well. And plus, the players are bad-mouthing them in public. so right away you know that part of the dressing are not listening to him anymore are they you can't keep him on stubbornness is what I'm saying if you've made a bad choice even if you've made loads of other bad choices this might be the worst choice so I think he's got to sorry Mark have the players spotted this because at the top level if the players spot something that's not quite right they will jump on you like a ton of bricks and it looks like excuse me that this is what is happening and it looks like they've proper thrown him under the bus with the comments again last night.

39:16Is it a case that the players want him out as well now? I think they should be rolling their sleeves up, crossing the white line, that's what they get paid to do. I'm not having that it's always just the manager's fault. The book starts with the players on the pitch, but have they spotted something that they're not going to carry on accepting? Can I just say something? that's all correct, right? But it's your captain. It's your captain who's mouthing off. So that's a problem. That's a big problem if you've not got your captain on board with you. If you're captain who's jumping off the sinking ship, you know what I mean?

39:52It's not a good... He's got to be the last man when they're going down with the ship, hasn't he? He should be. But he's not doing that. So he's now throwing the manager, and he's jumping off the sinking ship, really, and blaming the manager. If it was another player, you know but it's your captain mouth and that's a problem you know what I mean that's a big problem for Michael big problem yeah and I think it's two there's two layers to that as well because you know I look at people like Luke Shaw who last season played every single game maybe because he wanted to go to the World Cup of England this season he's hardly available and he's not being mentioned but he's not available and then you've got Bruno Fernandes who's available every game but he's coming out and saying the tactics aren't very good the ambition at the club is not very good Lissandra Martinez last week, we didn't have a good transfer window, the board's to blame goes off at half-time against Leeds there's a lot of players that are available I do agree with you players obviously have to take responsibility but also they're on the training ground they're negotiating contracts, they probably know a lot more than we do and it's very clear that they're not motivated now if I had the opportunity I said it about 18 months ago I'd hit the reset button I'd have a new ownership I'd have a new board I'd have a new coach I'd have new players that's not going to happen at this moment so the question is do we just stick with it or do you change what you can change I think you've got to change the manager and try and rescue the season This is the big thing now like I've got to ask the question do you see it as possibly a relegation fight if something's not it can't be surely it can't be for Manchester United they can't be No No No No, no, I don't.

41:35I mean, look, Spurs did their best to get relegated last year and still didn't get relegated. I think that United have got too many, I mean, United have got too many players that would keep them out of that. I mean, there's still good players at Man United, you know, Cunha, Mbermo, Bruno, Harry Maguire, Maynou. The keeper's not too bad. I can't see, I still think United can have a bad season and finish seventh or sixth, but where they are at the moment, they're a bottom half of the table team and that's not acceptable. How long would you gain a new manager who comes in? How long are you going to gain a new manager if you get your man in?

42:12Is it the German lad or is it the one you like? Yeah, I think if you do that though you've got to go right, you know, this manager has this CV and has this approach and we are going to back it and I think that's where they went wrong with Amrim because they brought in a guy who played a 3-4-3 they never brought him a midfielder There was a lot of ex-players around United saying he needs to go to a back four, but he'd never been a back four manager. And I remember saying this at the time, why are we trying to get a manager to change? And so Jim Radcliffe, the owner, actually said this is a three-year project and then sacked him three months later because they bottled it.

42:49And this is what it comes down to. We need a strong board to go, this is the vision, this is the manager, this is the plan. Now, Carrick's not the guy to do that because he hasn't got the CV and he's already had the bad results. but you've got to get the right manager. If you've got Unai Emery in, I think the United fan base would go, right, you've got to give him at least two years. But they've got to put the right manager in with the right message. And unfortunately, United's board do not speak to the fans. So you're always left in this void of uncertainty. And I think you've got to get somebody that's managed a big club.

43:25And that's why I mentioned Nagelsmann, Conte, Emery. I think if you go Eddie Howe or Herzler, It might work, but you are going to get bad results. And when you get bad results, you need to be able to fall back on something, I think. Yeah, so you mentioned about the project. Newcastle fans will be jumping up and doing this now. Yeah, the project, long-term project. So who can you trust to have that long-term project? I think that's the key here. And trust the board to give that person that long-term project because the lowest of its lower, looking from the outside and at the moment it's at the lowest of its low what would you like what would you guys do then Mark who would you guys or would you stick I'd stick with him I'd give him another go I'm a manager now he's been a great Man United player he did well last year for them I know it was a so you know I'd give him another go but he's got a problem he's got a problem with the dressing there's no question about that his captain stepped out of the line he's their best player that's a problem for him if it had been somebody else like the wee centre-back you could have maybe dropped him or you could have dismissed him but you can't dare up when your best player takes you head on you know what I mean so it looks like there's a problem and Bruno's not going to go he's not going to be dropped so you know but me being a manager I'd like to see him get another game and he'll be desperate to get that other game to try and turn it around they've got a draw against Leeds didn't they up at Leeds last week you know what can I say I mean I just want the lad to get another chance going back to experience yeah he's never had experience he had experience at Middlesbrough and then he went into Man United I mean Mikel Arteta never had any experience so he never had any experience as a manager he went into Arsenal and they gave him time they must have saw something right in the back to him and Sir Alec Ferguson at Man United I don't need to tell you you know what I mean he got time you know all the best ones get a wee bit of time don't they but unfortunately as we talked about earlier on you don't get that time I think Arteta was the one where I remember not too long ago where people were calling what's the boy at Brentford's name what's the lad at Brentford Andrews Andrews he's not experienced is he no he's never had a manager in the role he's doing a great job but I think because he's your captain because he's got the players on side you know what I mean his players are on side with him Manchester United's players are not on side when you say that when you say that there's two or three no on side I see Martinet's mouthing off, I see Bruno Fernandes mouthing off.

46:00So there seems to be a wee corner in the dressing room that are not having this management team. Well, listen, I think this debate could go on until we can see something probably over the next 24 hours maybe. I think he'll be there for Bournemouth. I think they'll stick with him for Bournemouth, definitely. So anyway, Matt, thanks very much. It's been a pleasure to speak to you this morning. Thanks for having me. Speak to you soon. Take care, Matt.

46:34OK, Mike Keegan, the new Overlap Chief Football Correspondent, joined us in the studio. Welcome. Thank you, Mark. Yeah, nice to have you on the show. Different perspective for us. So, you know, you came in today to get your laptop, didn't you? I was going to say, what does that mean? What do you do now? So, stuff like this. Any breaking news stories. Try and break a few of my own and kind of give a journalism element to it all. But I thought I was just going to come in, get my laptop, be showing where the fire escapes are, pick up my hule, and that'll be me. And then I'm watching United last night and I'm just...

47:15And this is your first day? Two, three, four. This is going to be a busy first day, yeah. Thrown in at the deep end. Obviously, because what's happened, Manchester United's performance. How do we see it from a journalist's point of view? So it's nice to not be talking about Manchester City for the past couple of weeks. From a selfish point of view, I prefer the stories where it's just you that's got it. It's like an exclusive. You've been working on it for a while and you know you're going to break this and it's going to cause a big... Something like this is a nightmare because it's Man United.

47:51Everybody's on to it. We can all see the writing on the wall. So you're kind of looking over your shoulder all the time. I've got my phone in my pocket. If that's vibrating, don't take any offence, but I'll be looking at that. So, I mean, it's great because from our perspective, it's eyeballs and people want to know what's going on. But for Manchester United, it's just, God, are we here again? Is that the case? The writing's on the wall? Is the writing on the wall immediately from now? I would be amazed if he turns it around from here. I think there were three things when you've seen this at United before there's three things from last night's game there's one, the result itself and the performance then there's what Fernandes comes out and says that you've already spoken about but then there's Michael having a pop back at Fernandes in which again you've said it's alright saying we're not pressing or the tactics are wrong but if you're not running you're not going to win and I just think when you get to that stage and there are performances you guys have always seen it there are performances that get managers the sack that was a performance last night that gets a manager the sack got battered didn't they I never seen Carrick's response to that normally but if you start as you said they're two and thrown in the media between the captain and the news it's a major problem isn't it I've not really seen that very often or ever I don't think there was only one little bit of shining light I think last night and that was Hammard's performance the young lad he was the only one that you could think he's done okay there was just nothing else they just weren't getting close to anybody or they just couldn't get close even the first goal Maguire steps back a wee bit it's just a bit of age because his legs have gone a wee bit he's not got to power to get up to the ball he just steps back a wee bit and their players just need a half a yard they were just off it weren't they all over the pitch they never got close to anybody maybe he should have changed the tactic you know what I mean he only went in 1-0 then only 1-0 down at half time so it wasn't that bad I don't think they had any shots I don't think they had any chances but it wasn't that bad was it?

49:51You've got time to turn it around but maybe he can change the tactics in the game you know what I mean go man for man if you have to because he played with the strikers didn't he played with two midfield players up front really and they cannae run no they cannae run they've only got his two wingers that can run so Preston's hard they've got they're mounting behind them they cannae run either he cannae run so Maguire cannae run the Nishan cannae run so before you know it you've got a full team that cannae run but at the end of the day they still got pumped didn't they maybe he could have changed the tactic pushed them right on gone right on and that but look So how does the process work now Mike does Jim Ratcliffe get involved yeah he's the next he's the next line he's involved now there is very little at that football club that happens certainly at that level without a big input from Jim Ratcliffe I think the noises that we're getting and obviously it's quite early is that they were appalled by what they saw last night there is definitely sympathy for the manager they're looking at the players and thinking yeah we've got injuries there are people who will come out and say the squad's not good enough but there is a view above the manager that these are highly paid professionals and that they let their manager down last night now I'm not saying that gives him a free pass because I think it's heading towards an inevitable conclusion but there is definitely a view that he was let down last night so I think the other thing that I'm hearing is it's kind of they landed at two o 'clock in the morning at Manchester airport and it's you straight out after the game and it's like we sleep on this and if it's you know we see how we feel in the morning and if we if we still feel as bad as we do now then you know it's probably time for a change but bigger question so and for them if if you're in EOS you know that they gave Ten Hag an extension that was a first act and obviously that was a mistake they bring Alma in it doesn't in it doesn't work and now they bring Carrick in, they give him the job full-time and if that doesn't work, that's three decisions you've got wrong now.

51:54So there will be a little bit of hesitancy on their part because it doesn't reflect well on them. But then, as you say, the manager is coming out and having a dig at his own players after they've had a dig at him. There is an international break in the middle of November, but there's four games before then. and it's Manchester United four games is bigger every football club at Manchester United it's huge Is there always a recruitment process going on behind the scenes you know is is the next manager lined up or you know do they look for someone who's available do they look to recruit someone if it was if it was going to happen is it already happening yeah I mean Duncan will know how it works who is picking the manager so there's Jason Wolcox there isn't there?

52:43He will have an input I think going back to what I said there won't be anything done without Jim Ratcliffe's seal approval there will be contingency plans they'll have thought about this isn't new it's been a dreadful start to the season for United I thought they did alright in Madrid I was at Leeds on Saturday I thought they did alright but there's kind of that the longer it goes without a victory you've got to be looking at what you're going to do next so yeah it's a decision that they don't want to make but they will they will have been thinking about it if he turns it around if it's Bournemouth at the weekend isn't it at home so he can turn it around can't he if the victories can get it to a turn it can turn it around very quickly can't it I know you're saying it's inevitable and I get it because the players are coming out the captain's coming out but if he gets a victory on Sunday things look a wee bit better for you don't you just want that one more game don't you as a manager one more chance we've said though I'm not sure that the energy's there from the players to go and get a result.

53:40Bournemouth will be coming to Old Trafford. They've not started the season greatly. No. And they've got Milan tonight, so that'll help. I think we've seen that with United this season. I was talking to somebody at another Premier League club about how well they finished last season and obviously getting the job. And he's like, Mike, in the final furlong, they were the only fit horse. Everybody else had Europe, Cups, and it was literally at the top end of the table. there were two week periods where United didn't have a game. Everybody's fresh, everything's going in your favour so a lot of people, this is not surprising them.

54:19You have to ask the question as well, is it an appealing job to someone, with everything that's going on, a manager coming in, is it appealing to someone? Jump at it. Absolutely jump at it, it's the biggest club in the world. MV or Madrid they're the two biggest clubs so they jump at it absolutely and plus they're not doing very well are they so it's a good time to take the club over isn't it they're struggling they've no one a game because you can't get any worse and you get in and bang away you go that's it but see who would they bring in who would they bring in how quickly can they bring them in I'll just hope Michael gets another game he gets a chance at it gets a victory turns it round all I'd say to Michael was this put people in the team that you trust at the end of the day mate you're going to if you don't turn it around you're going to lose your job get rid of them the ones you don't the ones you don't trust to do a job for you get them out of the team and get boys in there that's going to run for you and that's it if that's youngins or ones that have not been playing don't go on reputations your manager's through you your captain's through you under the bus if you don't think he's playing for you get him out get him out get Martinez out of the team and put in boys there that are going to die for you and they're going to run through brick walls for you because at the end of the day this is coming to an end now you're either you're going to lose your job son or you're going to continue and if it was me get them out and put boys in that are going to do the running for you in the hard yards and if you lose you lose but if you keep them in the team and they're no playing for you you're going to lose and you're going to lose your job get the boys in that are going to do the running for you lad yeah here's one for you then Bournemouth does he pick Bruno Fernandes does he pick him is he his captain I wouldn't pick him I wouldn't pick him even though he's their best player if he's no way you and he's decided to throw you under the bus and he's not quite as get boys in there with you they're in the trenches with you in 45 get them out the team get Martinez out the team and get other boys in there they're going to graft for you but if you're Bruno you could turn around and say I'm the I don't know if you would say this but I'm the reason that you got that job because last season it was me that was winning games for Manchester United every week that got us to a place where you weren't the interim anymore he's a great player but I just I'm with Duncan you can't say things like that again it happened to Roy Keane didn't it we love Roy but Roy mouthed off once too much as well at the end of the day you can overstep the mark I don't know if Roy would agree with me or no but I think I remember Roy was doing a bit of mouthing off at the time and Fergie fell out with him didn't he or did he know yeah well he was at Celtic within a couple of weeks so you know I'd get the captain out of the team I'd get that matinez out of the team if they're mouthing off and get boys in are going to fight for you, mate, because at the end of the day, you've no good long left.

57:07So, Mike, you think it's inevitable then? I do. What's the time frame? I think we're at that stage. It wouldn't surprise me if something comes out before the Bournemouth game. I like Michael Carrick. I would like to see him given the opportunity to turn it around. But I just think it's Manchester. You've said it a couple of times. It's Manchester United. And this isn't acceptable. And as sad as it is, because we've all seen the issues he's got in that dressing room, the book stops with the manager. Brilliant. Well, thanks for your time, Mike, and welcome on board. Thank you. It's been a pleasure to have you on this afternoon.

57:44I'll go and get my laptop. You've definitely brought a professional element to this. Exactly, exactly.

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1:00:51So, welcome to Games Gone, Games Back, sponsored by Skybet. Welcome, Kieran. We're here with three new topics today. It's not Bruno, unfortunately. So the first one is related to the Benfica Celtic game last week, and they had a kiss cam. So kiss cam at the football, Games Gone or Games Back. we know the answer to this one don't we it's only if you're kissing your missus you know what I mean if you're kissing somebody else it's gone in it you know what I mean so kiss cab come on man it's gone game's gone game's gone game's gone are we low or are we pretty low pretty low I'll put it above there above it's not as bad as the inflatables no no no alright the next one on you go you're mad the next one is I can't remember what game it was it might have been in South America they had digital yellow and red cards what did that even mean the referee had the cards on a phone what I'm assuming he would it was in Uruguay was it in Uruguay yeah seen the clip of it so it's like in case he wants to ring his missus as well at the same time yeah his missus wants to ring him so it's literally yeah he held up a from the battery or something wasn't it the game's gone isn't it we're old school aren't we we want the red cards and we want the yellow cards yeah digital digital yeah yeah I can still get my head won't I the game's gone yeah the game's gone absolutely we're low here aren't we we're very low we're very low all right digital yellow and red cards it must have been quite chunky in his pocket is it yellow card or red card you just watched it on TV there you go right This is the last one.

1:02:47This is a good one, I think. Managers joining team goal celebrations. See, I remember you, Dunk, celebrating with a ball boy. Do you remember? Not quite the team celebrations. You're in it together, mate. You're all in it together. I'm having that all day long. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah, OK. Yeah, go on. I've been watching you run down that touchline and the passion that you show. Yeah, no, I think so. In the moment, innit? You did that, didn't you? In the moment, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. big matches pumped up last minute ago did yeah yeah remember Marinho did it didn't he Marinho did it running away down there Man City boy Mancini did he run Mancini did he run a runner of course a pitch and drop his phone was that somebody else do you know Clop did it once as well against Everton he ran on didn't he Conti Conti constantly where Clop did it I pulled his hamstring I was sitting there the game's gone then I was out of the order he was on the pitch he went on to the pitch I'm saying it's out of the order now why did you mention that?

1:03:54well I just thought I was trying to bring up examples because you're ahead and you mentioned that I didn't watch you celebrate down that touchline at Goodison would you celebrate more scoring or was that a better feeling? I think when you're managing when your first goal goes in when you're managing mine was a chalice and then he'd come up and head of that body and then oh my god it was just because you'd never experienced that before as kind of as a manager but obviously when you're scoring goals you're experiencing it quite a bit aren't you maybe in the big games you take your top off whatever you do you jump into the crowd do you know what I mean would you do it if it was a big game and the manager's last minute goal yeah you'd be getting the gear off and you'd be jumping in wouldn't you but Jürgen Klopp was out of order lad I reckon totally out of order going on the pitch yeah no the game was going on I was in the crowd I think that's when they hit the bars that's when Jordan Pickford hit the bar and come in yeah just do her look just look on it games back lad games back right got no fear of red love it togetherness right thank you that was games gone games back brought to you by Skybet

1:05:07Arsenal Bayern last night yeah two great teams two good teams two good teams yeah speaking about them on United I watched them two last night and the way they closed the ball down and Harry Kane another goal another assist is this why he is nominated as favourite actually to win the Ballon d 'Or do you think he'll win the Ballon d 'Or he's the favourite he's the favourite the bookies are never wrong are they are very seldom wrong the bookies but he's up against Mbappé Jamal yeah no top players so I'd love to see him with it. I think he deserves it. I really do. A couple of stats, 102 goals in 100 games in the Bundesliga.

1:05:51And he's quickest to score 100 goals in any competition in 104 games. Beating Ronaldo, which is 105, and Erling Haaland, 105 by one game. Phenomenal, isn't it? And when you look at stats like that, I'm just thinking, you know, is the Ballon or about scoring goals you know or is it more of an all round thing because to be fair he's got the assists as well yeah goals are everything isn't he really he's doing the hard the hard stuff sticking to the net and as you said he starts her through the roof isn't he quite incredible isn't it top player obviously world world class the best we've ever had and the best English player that's certainly forward we've ever had so yeah I mean I'm saying that because I love I love Wayne and I love Alan Shearer I thought they were top they are top top they always put their two at the top but I think Harry's went by them to be honest he's only his goal scoring record do you know what I mean because obviously Waring's a good football player as well and so is Alan but no I would he's got to be I would I would think he'd be winning that he would take my vote anyway I mean he scores a lot of penalties like do you think he scored there 100 penalties yeah he's he's he's missed quite a few as well You've still got to stick them in, but you scored there 100 pernets, you know what I mean?

1:07:12Yeah. But he's a great player. How he adapts his game, dropping in, making the passes, he's got the vision to see it, he's got to wait a pass, he can still get in the box, he's got a lovely strike in him, quick feet, he's got a lovely strike in him, lovely strike. The thing is with him as well, I look at him and his education was Orient, not taken on by Arsenal, I believe. so his Orient loan Millwall loan Norwich City loan Leicester Leicester City loan and then is that like why he's you know he's done his learning hasn't he you know I think everybody's pathway is different isn't there very very few the ones that are the best in the playground at the school you might be the best player in the playground at school didn't you very rarely did they become the best player as they get older there's been one or two exceptions like Wayne for instance he'd be the best you know what I mean he's a young player and he'd become the best as an all-player.

1:08:07Alan Shearer had to go to Southampton to have a career. He was at Walsh End Boys in Newcastle. They never took him, who was a feeder club to Newcastle. He ended up in Southampton. So there's a few players that have been the top players when they're young and go all the way through to be top players. But they're few and far between. Harry's probably had to date the hard way like we've all had to date. He's just done it better. It's probably the last chance to loan for him as well with his age to win the Ballon d 'Or. this is probably the last chance to learn I just don't know players have gone longer now pal aren't they it is probably his last chance he's at his peak at the moment but players have gone longer his game's now built on speed just now isn't it he's got the physical he's got the physical attributes but no he's not got the speed but he's got the brain he's got the technique he could go on for another four years five years because players are living their life much much better than they did when we played we didn't live our life as professional I certainly didn't live my professional life the way I should have did Harry's probably dietitians he's doing it alright you can see that players are lasting much much longer fair point and Harry I wish him well and he's definitely got my vote brilliant mine as well couple of questions to finish today really enjoyed it good luck with your job thank you I've got a question for you go on then who's the only goalkeeper to win the Ballon d 'Or not Casillas no Well to be honest I've not got a clue Because they've Please no put the name on it Is it Cassius?

1:09:41Liv Yashin Who's that? Going back Yeah I'm not making that up Years and years Yeah there's always been A case for Noira Who was outstanding Last night by the way He made a save last night 40 year old is he? Yeah That was like Bankesque Didn't they say They put it up there Unbelievable Yeah 40 eh Peter Schmeichel You could argue it I think 10 goalkeepers should have won Ballon d 'Or really Dino's off Dino's off Italian goalkeeper yeah who's your best goalkeeper you really saying like modern type of goalkeeper maybe in your era was the best of the best Peter Schmeichel Schmeichel there used to be a cliche Manchester United are at the most dangerous when Peter Schmeichel has got the ball in his hand yeah good distribution unbelievable question for you to finish don't make it too difficult especially no accounting one I don't want a maths question who is the one Scottish player to win the Ballon d 'Or well I don't know so I am going to say Graeme Souness because he won he done a lot with Liverpool didn't a lot of winning with Liverpool another Manchester United player top goal scorer Manchester United player top goal scorer Man United oh god yeah I've had a run in with this a few times I've had a run in with these a few times Law.

1:11:02Dennis Law. Dennis Law. Yes. What a perfect time to finish today's show. Thanks, mate. I was on big fella. Nice one.

1:11:20This has been a Global and the Overlap production.

1:11:49We'll be right back.

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