Newcastle Cup Glory & Man City Charges Imminent? | The Overlap Fan Debate

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1:58I want to ask you, too, then, with Eddie Howe, does he deserve a statue? It would be a great stadium if that was being built in Beijing. That's what I'm saying. Wow, that's fantastic. Stop slugging our players off. One is factually a cheater and the other one isn't, so until that's a different case... You've got better lawyers. I don't think we are getting the respect we deserve. I don't think Villa and Newcastle are getting the respect that they deserve. I still want more after two years for£60 million, I do. Watch out, Nottingham Forest, and watch out, Man City. Have you got a fake phone, have you?

2:27Scoles is coming around today. There we go. There we go. It's been a trouble, I thought, maybe. I never said that. I never said that. I will still knock you on your ass, yeah. I've never seen Rory so quiet. I've seen every word. I've seen it. Hang on.

2:47Welcome to a new episode of The Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet and we're going to kick off with the quiz, Scolzi. And we've got Baz, obviously Everton. Yeah, so he's going to be on the 90 seconds and he needs to beat Lee, Newcastle 10. As long as you get five, more than five, I'll be all right. Right, I actually did this quiz before. Did you? And I'll tell you what I got. I'll see if you can beat me. No, don't do that. It makes it even worse. I got a terrible one wrong. Oh, right. OK, so it's Baz on Everton and 90 seconds starts now. Which Welsh player holds the Everton appearing track of at 750?

3:27Nadel Southall. Which club did Seamus Coleman join Everton from back in 2009? Slago Rovers. Yeah. Which Belgian has scored more goals for Everton? Miralas, Lukaku or Fellaini? Lukaku. Yeah. Name three of the four players that have played for Real Madrid and Everton in the Premier League? Graveson, Rodriguez. I've got my mind gone blank.

3:52I got this one. Oh, nice one. Flash, can't think. OK, which permanent Everton manager has the highest win percentage for Everton in the Premier League? Ancelotti, Moyes or Martinez? Antelotti. Yeah. Which Portuguese defender played for both Liverpool and Everton in the same season? Abel Javier. Yeah. How many clean sheets has Jordan Pickford made in the Premier League? Over 80 or under 80? Over 80, 80, Tim. Which striker scored a brace against Wimbledon in Everton's 3-2 relegation victory in 1994? Graeme Stewart. Which permanent manager has had the shortest Everton tenure of six and a half months?

4:31Rafa Benitez. Who played more games for Everton, Tim Cale or Tim Howard? Tim Howard. Yeah. Which side dumped Everton out the FA Cup in 2001, 3-0? Tramier Rovers. Yeah. Name the Canadian international play for Everton between 2001 and 2004. Thomas Radzinski. Yeah. Which captain lifted the FA Cup in 95? Dave Watson. What song... Go on, Baz! Baz! Yes, Baz! No, no, no, one more. Go on. Start, so you'll finish. Start, so you'll finish. I want, go on then. Is he getting extra time? What? No, we started, so we'll finish. What song do Everton walk out to at Goodison Park? Oh, what? Fred Cass. I know that player.

5:15Fourth. He didn't get... No. Royston, yeah. So we got 13. 13? 13. How many did he get? So we got every one right except the Real Madrid one? That's Renthe. You feel better for him? Which one did you get wrong? Which one did you get wrong? I didn't say so. I knew he said goal kit. I said Ted Segar. How many games did he play for Everton? He played loads. He played, like, 460 odd, I think. I just had in my head it was him. I never got Neville Salco. I didn't get... Did you get to enter? Yeah. Did you? It slipped me mind.

6:00Right, there is only one place to start. We've had the Carabao Cup final yesterday. Newcastle 2, Liverpool 1. Lee, how's the head to start with? It's still a bit ropey, I would say. Your voice is slowly coming back, but what a magical weekend for us. It's just incredible. I've never experienced it, even far into our 60s, 70s, 80s. Probably can't remember the last time we won a domestic trophy. The whole weekend was just brilliant. It was emotional. I was in tears. I was hugging strangers. It was high-fiving. and it was just an emotion of rollercoaster, and finally that monkey's off our back, and we've got a trophy, and it's just, it was wonderful.

6:41It was brilliant as a fan. I loved it. What do you think about the emotion of it, but the actual performance, the game, what were your thoughts on that? Do you know what? I thought we might sneak at 1-0, but I thought Liverpool would have a lot more of the ball, and I was intrigued to see if Eddie Howard would go five at the back, like he did at Arsenal, but it really surprised me. We were the better side, and Liverpool have absolutely hammered teams all season, played them off the park, but it looked like we were the team that was 16 points clear of the Premier League playing against Liverpool.

7:11It really shocked us and we were like, we don't turn up on Wembley. Our record at Wembley is absolutely shocking. We've got to get fair play, Eddie Howe, because the performance, individually, the team, you've got it spot on. Scolzi, what did you think of the game? Yeah, I don't know. Exactly the same. I just felt from the first whistle, Newcastle were in. complete control really. I know Liverpool possibly looked a little bit tired, but you have to be a little bit disappointed with the way Liverpool play. I think especially in the midfield area, I just think Newcastle overpowered him. I said to you before, I think McAllister is a really good player.

7:47I think he's been really good for them this season, but it was just common sense for me. He kept taking too many touches, and I think when you're playing against powerful people, that's the last thing you do. You've got to take one and two touches. don't let anybody near you but as soon as you start taking touches it's not something McAllister does is it and he's the player that I think gets Liverpool playing you know almost like a Modric has been through the years and scores well no and again yeah but that type of player he gets your team playing when he's not quite right then I just think the old thing is a little bit messed up and I just thought they were in I never felt like Liverpool were going to be a threat to him no I mean I didn't watch in the game it's when the game started I just, Newcastle started, and I think probably Newcastle needed to start well to gain that belief and confidence.

8:34But I've always had this feeling throughout this season, probably been proven right a lot of time. Liverpool always find a way to, or Slott does something, he changes something. It never quite happened. But the fella I was watching on the week he's had, Dan Byrne, I mean, he is going to go down. And listen, I know they're all going to be legendary figures, but I feel like he's going to be the guy with the goal, the way he played at the back. I just, he's almost going to be like this legendary figure from years to come. I mean, how pleased were you for him and with him? Well, he's a local lad who went away from the club and made his way up for the leagues.

9:06And it's like, it's that old fairy tale story, isn't it? And then he's come back to his hometown club and he would never have thought that he would get an England call-up and soon to make his England debut, score a goal at Wembley and lift a trophy for his home side. It's just the stuff of dreams. And there's a few Geordies in there, of course. They'll all go down as legends. and even the likes of Bruno Gamera who was obviously a foreign talent who's come in you can see just with the emotions when we're one he's in tears and he gets it and I think that's quite difficult for someone who's come from abroad and he's only been in the club what, two and a half a year?

9:39And he's taken it on and he's screaming and him and Joe Litton every time we win a throw-in or a tackle they're going nuts screaming and giving it all and it's like we love that and I do agree with Scaldi saying that midfield three that's how we won the game because on their day Tonali, Joe Linton and Bruno are up there with anyone in the Premier League and I said on the overlap last time that Hall and Gordon, we had the best left in the Premier League and when them two went suspensions and injuries I was like, oh yeah I just didn't feel too confident but then when Trent went down and he went out, I thought do you know, that's a little bit of hope and there was little things that were happening in the week as we're getting closer and closer to the game instead of two years ago against Man United we were just buzzing to be there celebrations were muted.

10:25Even on the day as fans, it wasn't as hectic as it was two years ago. It's just, you know, we're back second time in three years. Could have been the start of things. It was just... I think that's a good point. I think Liverpool are missing Trent. You don't normally say that about a right-back day, but the creative, the amount of passes he plays probably in behind for Salah so many times throughout the game. I also ask you, Jamie, from a defensive point of view, it's shown the weakness of Zonal defending, isn't it? Because they just clipped every corner to Dan Byrne. Now you think, because it's out there, it might not be that much of a problem, do you know what I mean?

11:05But he did head one down for Guimeras, I think, early on. He got his head on everything, didn't he? I think it was three or four. You felt the warning signs must be there. You've got McAllister, who's probably smaller than me, up against him. You think, you've got to change something. I mean, listen, the Zonal man-marking thing, I mean, what I would say, to be fair, to Liverpool, I think they've only conceded one all season in the Premier League and I think that was in the last minute against Ipswich at home. So again, that didn't really mean nothing. But what I did want Liverpool to do in the game, I think if you're a Van Dijk especially, because I don't think anyone else has got that authority on the pitch, even though Canati's a good player, he's not going to start organising people.

11:40But almost you just, I was looking at it out of time and it's easy to say, I'll put Van Dijk on him. But Liverpool set up zonally. But swap Jota. I know Jota's only small, but Jota's good in the air. McAllister just McAllister's not great physically or do something I think he should have done something but what I would say about that speaking to Eddie Howe at the end of the game he said they'd been practicing set pieces for that game for two weeks and I'm a massive fan of Eddie Howe as a manager I think he's brilliant and I always think not just the corners every set piece when I was watching in the box I was saying Liverpool be ready be ready because as we know as players whenever you've worked on something set piece wise something a bit different you always do it on the first one because players aren't clever enough to think oh we'll do it on the third or the fourth it's like this is what we're doing on this one and even there was a wide free kick or there was something something happened quick Eddie Howe was brilliant Harry but it just told me about the mentality going into the game and not having a go at Liverpool because they've had other things going on in terms of Paris Saint-Germain and the league I think Eddie Howe even when he's gone to Anfield in the league game he said to us afterwards he deliberately played differently to how he was going to play in the game.

12:53He didn't play Izak. He almost said to us, Izak was going to play. Izak was fine. We didn't want to throw our hand. And I thought, brilliant management, that. You know, I mean, that's almost like a masterclass in how getting right for that game. And that's not saying he's always, he's tactically outwitted slot or something like that. But he's had those two or three weeks before the game and he's just focused on that game. And Liverpool probably haven't had that opportunity. And I just think, in every area of the game he was fantastic the manager yeah the game at Anfield he called his bluff he even played Gordon as a number 10 and Gordon doesn't play there often obviously he's an there was a lot of talk is he injured and we were like nah he wasn't he's calling his bluff he's literally just rested him for that game and then as you say the tactics were totally different especially with the set pieces but it was just the final I still even now I'm in shock that we've won the trophy but it was just it was so easy it was like we're expecting Liverpool at Dominic and have loads of chances.

13:49Nick Pope only had one save to make. One save in that whole game. And then, I mean, you were talking about Eddie Howe, and I think now he's lifted that trophy. Obviously, we worship the likes of Kevin Keegan and Bobby Robson, but Eddie Howe's now gone and done it. So, there'll be, I don't know. I thought that was a big part of the game. I'm sorry, it was Liverpool's chance. Was it 15, 20 minutes ago? I think it was Curtis Jones, wasn't it? Yeah. I thought that was a great chance. I think if he scores there, I'm not OK looking back, but I thought he made a bit of a difference when he came on as well.

14:23You think if he scores there, you've got 15 minutes, well, I think it could be a different story. It could be, and the referee added on, I don't know what it was, 12, 13 minutes, and that was nervy. You used to like to wait at times, weren't you? Is Gemara still all right, or is he still down? I don't get bitter now, don't get bitter. But look, it's a dark heart and sometimes you've got to do that just to kill the game and run the clock down, and we're doing that, and we've got a trophy, and I want to ask you to then. with Eddie Howe, does he deserve a statue? I don't think he'll get it now. No, but for us...

14:52We started getting the 10-Hog one, ready? But the reason why I asked that is... What's the league cup? Fucking hell. I bet for us... Everyone tries to get knocked out of that all year. Yeah, but we've won a trophy, so... It does kind of show you how lucky we are as fans. You kind of think of it when you see Newcastle celebrating a trophy. We take it for granted, you know what I mean? We sack managers for winning the League Cup, or Louis van Aar got sacked for winning the FA Cup, and it kind of shows you how lucky you are when you get to experience those things. In the last 10 years, you'd argue it's been my worst time as a fan and I've said five or six trophies.

15:22Could be worse. I was thinking about this coming, because obviously we're going to talk about it, but in some ways I was happy Newcastle won't, but I just didn't want it to be against Liverpool. I'd rather have been there and they beat someone else. That was the problem, but I was actually so happy. A few Newcastle people who know, and you've got different people I've got to know over the years, and you're thinking, you know, what your reaction was. I was right next to them in the crowd, listening to people on the radio coming in saying, you know, the best day of my life. And, you know, as supporters, everyone just wants that moment, don't they?

15:57And I think the problem... Listen, I think the Premier League has been amazing. It's better than the First Division. I remember the First Division when I was a kid. The Premier League's fantastic. I think the Champions League is better than the European Cup. You know, the games we see, the drama's fantastic. But it has created a gap. between sort of what we class as, you know, Champions League clubs and clubs of high classes, huge football clubs in this country, Everton, Aston Villa, even Tottenham, I know they're getting the Champions League now and again, Newcastle, clubs who are going 70 years, Everton 35, Tottenham about 25, Villa, I'm not sure exactly what it is.

16:32It's not right that these clubs are going, or any club is going that long without something. And I think to last season, and Man United won the FA Cup, Man Utd are a massive name world-renowned team but in terms of how good they were as a football team they were bang average last season did you finish last year eighth? Probably but my point is everyone expected City to bat everyone expected Liverpool to beat Newcastle Newcastle will probably finish top six this season you would say Liverpool will probably finish first now it's felt like a long time that the top team in the Premier League there was almost like a massive gap to the sixth you wouldn't expect the sixth best team to beat someone in the cup do you understand what I'm saying and I think it's actually good for the game that even if I know you're not going to like this but if Man City don't win the FA Cup because I think every other team in the FA Cup this season has gone like 20 years without winning a trophy or teams that haven't even won anything that's what I'm saying and I think who knows if it's a one off but I think it is better if the trophies are spread out a little bit more and everyone's almost getting that little bit of a feeling of success.

17:44It adds a bit of magic back into it as well because if you think if it's every year it's just City, Arsenal, United, these same teams win at Chelsea. Arsenal? You've won an FA Cup. Yeah, maybe I shouldn't have said Arsenal. Yeah, like you said, teams, you know, Preston, North End, somebody like that, they're looking at it going, you know, we can. Also, you never know what's going to come next. You know, for Newcastle now, they could use it as a springboard. Like, when I was a kid, Chelsea went 25 years without a trophy. In 1971, we beat Real Madrid in the Cup Winners' Cup and then we didn't win anything until Di Matteo against Middlesbrough.

18:14That was 25 years without anything but then as soon as that goal hit the back of the net we didn't stop winning and there's a chance now that Newcastle could use that as a springboard. If Aston Villa were to do well in the FA Cup and on some level I hope they do I think it was a League Cup final they beat Leeds in a League Cup final that's quite York scoring for them. Think of the size of the club fairly recent European Cup winners in terms of overall it could spark if Newcastle find a bit of rhythm if Villa find a bit of rhythm it could spark a new life into the Premier League

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21:06Well, I mean, being at the side of the pitch, because where we were stood, the sky, it was by the Newcastle fans. And there was part of me, I was just looking at them thinking, wow. You know what I mean? It's like, you know, because we all want that as football fans. But another thing that was making me say, wow, was not that Liverpool were lost, was how bad the performance was. And I said after the game, Gareth, and you'll probably know the history of the club as well as me, how far back do you have to go to see a cup final performance as bad as that? It wasn't the losing You can lose games But it was like Wimbledon Then it's wise And Wimbledon Yeah That's what I'm saying That's what I said on the TV I didn't know if there was another one That sprang to mind Maybe United But that United 96 When I felt like it was just Bad game Obviously can't say But it just Yeah it probably It probably is Wimbledon isn't it Yeah we didn't say enough I mean at no point in the game Like you said before At no point in the game Did I think Liverpool were winning Because we just didn't have Any momentum I just thought United were better sorry, Newcastle United were better in the head, in the heart and in the tank, if you like.

22:10They had more power, they had more pace, they were at it more than we were. And the only sort of moments were Curtis coming on provided a little bit of impetus. Obviously, we got the goal. Chiesa looked all right. The first time I've been impressed with them, really. But then even the officials burst that balloon by taking so long to give that goal. And by the time we resumed, it was like we went backwards again. And even Slott, I thought Slott got some things wrong. Look, he's done everything. He's been brilliant in his first season. He's won the treble, I thought, mate. I never said that. I never said that.

22:48And I don't think clubs, it's unrealistic to think winning two, three and four things. And I think it's ridiculous every season the way we have this. And they have run out of steam a little bit. You know, he's relied on 15, 16 players. I wanted to ask you about that. I think you can look at that two ways and say it's almost come back to bite him on the backside a little bit with maybe the Champions League and this cup final that he's played almost 14 players he just plays. But has that almost put us in the position that we are in the league as well? Do you know what I mean? Because are the other squad players as good?

23:24I don't think he's got any time for four or five of those players in the squad. And he refused to play them. and the fact that he didn't change players at home to Southampton in between the Paris Saint-Germain games Southampton arguably one of the worst teams if not the worst team we've ever seen in the Premier League and he still didn't trust his squad now I can accept that this season because it's not really his squad it's been passed to him but I think next season I'm sure they bring players in you'll have to trust his squad more because you'll have to go further in the Champions League you can't accept a performance like that against Newcastle I'm giving the lads the benefit of the doubt that they've ran out of steam but we can't accept that as Liverpool playing like that in a cup final I'm with you all day and I think you're right Elliot, Endo even Nunes to an extent he just doesn't seem to trust those players he doesn't really want to use them and you look at the list of minutes and it's like Van Dijk, Gravenberg Salah have played almost every minute of every game and people are now saying Salah doesn't look quite like what he should be, but yeah, because he's played all those minutes, and he just doesn't seem to ever want to lean on those other players, and it's shined a little bit of a light on that, there are gaps in the squad still, we are going to need to spend money this summer, the only player that come in was Chiesa, and that seemed like a little bit of a gamble, a shot in the dark job, big money's got to be spent in the summer, whatever happens with the contract rebels, if you want to call them that, they've got to go big in the summer, they really have, because that beyond the 15-16, it's just not there.

25:02You know, Endo's all right, isn't he? And he's a bit of a cult hero. But he's no ball player. And so that's why he doesn't pick him. Elias hasn't got the pace that I think Slott wants. Nunes is unreliable. And Nunes is probably going to go. And allegedly had his head turned in January and hasn't been quite right since and things like that. And it's mad, by the way, that we paid more money for him than you's paid for Isak. I was looking at that before going off. I think the big mistake I think the big mistake as Jamie said there is that Southampton game yeah you know looking back he could have changed 11 players the result didn't really matter 12 points clear and he probably still would have won I think getting the rest into the players was big and it's shown now and you can't underestimate how affecting you is on Tuesday night against PSG going out of that it just you can see it in it deflates everything yeah the extra time against PSG, they were gone then, I thought.

25:58I thought they played all right in the game and they gave them a game and a little bit of luck here and there, we maybe could have knocked them out but PSG were far the better side in extra time and we sort of started the final like a continuation of that and I thought no players were taking responsibility either, so you were right what you were saying about overplaying and losing the midfield battle but even when you were giving it to the flair players, if you like, the ones who should do something. Salah was quiet. They weren't taking responsibility, they were just playing it back inside again and it was like, no, lads, you're the one who's meant to run at the players and make something happen.

26:29And they just weren't doing it. I think Liverpool's attack. And again, I don't want to feel like one of those supporters who's almost entitled because, you know, 12 points clear, but the top scorers in the Premier League. But when I'm watching it with the eye test, and your first thing you just said then, Scores was Salah was quiet and he's pointing. You're right, he was, because we expect so much. But you're real learning. But I'm tearing my hair out looking at the others. I'm thinking, what did he do? Come on, lads. you can't wait for him to do it every week it's like and we are the top scorers we only lost once in the league and that's why I'm trying to not be too critical but I do feel that there's like I feel it's a centre forward problem oh centre forward problem I think left wing can be I think attack and midfield I know Sir Bosley does a lot of energy in that but I still want more after two years for 60 odd million quid I do I look at the other teams number 10 I look at Cole Palmer at Chelsea I look at Fernandes at Man United I look at Odegaard at Arsenal am I missing someone maybe but I just I still think there can be there can be more there and you can't just rely on it and you mentioned Trent before this may be also Sean Alites maybe what next season might be like about it so you know Trent's not there the creativity Salah might not be there so you know we've bought all these other players after Salah come you know Gakpo Diaz Nunes maybe Jota and I said yesterday they're all good players they're not great players These aren't great players.

27:54They're good players. He's not even a great player. He's like a once-in-a-generation player, and he's lifting all them up and carrying them with them. So this idea that Liverpool in the summer will, okay, whatever's going on with Salah, money-wise, where can he go? Have these last few performances almost been a little bit of, oh, this is what Liverpool could get in the next couple of years, or is it just a guy who's just played too much and he's just having a little bad run of form. But I think it does show it's going to be very difficult to ever get something in the next two or three years to get someone of his level.

28:30Because the players they've both in the last two or three years in the attacking areas, as I said, just good players. It almost feels like there's a big job on his hands. You know, after your 12 points clear in the league, you got beat by PSG in the final yesterday. But it feels like there's a lot needed because there's uncertainty around players coming or going, I suppose you probably need a centre-half as well to cover Wendk and Artie and Van Dijk I was looking at you're still on the way and it wasn't I can assure you on the back of losing the game because I think I've said this I've flipped it the other way but I've almost said I'm excited where this manager can take them because it looks like we're going to win the league and I still look at so many areas in the team He's ahead of the schedule isn't he?

29:11Yeah but we need a centre-back there's no real backup for the two who play there you're probably going to need a right back we think Trent will go I think the other two will stay fingers crossed I think you need a central midfield player to replace Endo, but a younger version who we trust to put in. Centre forward to play and a left winger, I think, to replace. I mean, I'm not sure if Diaz stays. So I think there's probably five or six players, three to probably go straight in the team and another three to be really strong back up. Yeah, there's loads of uncertainty, isn't there? I think it's a twist around its head.

29:39It shows you that he's done a great job, though, doesn't it? Because if we think about expectations at the start of the season and there's that long list, isn't there, of what every pundit predicted Liverpool would do this season and no one said win the league. If we go and win the league, and I don't really care a jot on what anyone else says about how hard it's been or anything else, I'll have a huge pint in my hand when we've won that thing and I will be enjoying myself. There's no bad way to win a league. But it's definitely, you know, even I said myself, I thought, oh, well, third, fourth, maybe a run in one of the cups, that type of thing, maybe win the league cup, whatever.

30:10I didn't say, and I don't know anyone that was saying, we're going for the title this season. So if that title's got red ribbons on it and we all get to celebrate and see them finally lift the club, lift the cup inside Anfield against Crystal Palace on the last day. What a great season that is. Game on. And if Liverpool do do that, that means Arsenal will just miss out. So, Simon, I just want to welcome you to the fan debate to come in. I mean, first time you've been in, I mean, what's your assessment on sort of where Arsenal are right now? So, I think it's important to point out I'm a very positive football fan.

30:42I very much, I just hope everyone has a good time sometimes and that winds people up. But genuinely, I always look at it from a club point of view. Should we have done better this year? I think probably, given... Because the league has sort of... It's not as competitive as maybe it has been over the last few years. But ultimately, I remember how difficult it was when Emery came in and there was so much uncertainty and nobody knew what was coming in. Then Arteta was there and everyone was like, oh, I don't know if this is a good idea. I understand he's got a relationship with the club. He does win that FA Cup.

31:10And yes, there's an asterisk there. Was it his team club? I mean, we just talked about it, right? it's still nice to get to the end of the season with a trophy but that's the way I always look about it we're going to probably finish second I mean we do need a little bit more consistency I'm sure we're going to talk about the Chelsea game which I think kind of sums it up a bit but if you had told me this even five years ago we're not really competing for the league anymore but at least at some point we were as opposed to being in this weird almost fourth to sometimes tenth position I would have bit your hand off for this I always like to remember where we were it has been way too long since we won a Premier League but that's just the situation that we're in.

31:44I don't want to ignore what we are doing at the moment. We should have bought a striker. It's not even a debate. No one can actually come in, oh no, you don't need a striker. Well, we absolutely do because I've seen sometimes you have like 40 shots on target and you can't score a goal but at the same time, we're probably going to finish second. I'm a confident supporter and in terms of the club and the structure and everybody seemingly wanting to go in the right direction, that's where Arsenal are and that's not bad. Is there still some excitement? I mean, you're playing Real Madrid. You're still in the Champions League.

32:13I mean, was it a disappointment you got Real Madrid? Do you think that makes it... No, no, bring me Real Madrid. Absolutely. I'm terrified. When that happened, I had like a conniption and fell on the floor. I was like, oh, it's going to happen again. But, you know, who was the first team to beat them, you know, in Europe? At Madrid, it was us. Like, I know, we had a completely different team and a completely different era. But there is... The thing is, we have seen way, way bigger upsets than Arsenal, you know, beating Real Madrid. It would be a surprise. But if you can do that and then all of a sudden get to the latter parts of the Champions League, you ask any Arsenal fan, right now someone waves a magic wand, you finish 15th but you win the Champions League, every Arsenal fan will say yes.

32:50Because it's the holy grail for us, right? Apparently we're not allowed to be at the big table until we win the Champions League. I'm told this every single day. So we need to get that sort of albatross off our back. So if we go out there and we get absolutely wrecked, let's say it's really, really bad. well okay I trust the current regime to sit down and say this cannot happen again we struggled in the leagues we need a striker well what happened when we took on you know the biggest European giant of all I trust them whereas they 10 years ago I'd be like I don't know what we're going to do we're going to bring in some random player from Real Sociedad that I've never heard of that I've been told this is the guy and they leave in three years for less money than we bought them for and you're like oh no this is terrible I don't think that's what the current regime does I think they look at it and they look at it properly absolutely have been some mistakes but I think they kind of pick on them quite quickly and those players do get moved on.

33:39And Artair, to me, seems pretty ruthless. I don't think he has much room for sentiment and stuff and that's good. We don't need any of that. We've done that. It's just interesting, you've been talking a while and no one's challenged or interrupted. That's because you're a wrestler, aren't you? I am, yeah. I'm a professional wrestler. Obviously, the thing with professional wrestling is just like, you know, what kind of... You don't know what you're going to get. Some people still don't really understand what pro wrestling is but I will still knock you on your ass. Yeah, absolutely. I've never seen Rory so quiet.

34:02I agree with every word. Absolutely, I failed.

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35:48Rory, he mentioned not being at the top table and he gets you reminded of it every day. That's the type of thing that you remind Arsenal fans of every day. But thoughts on yesterday from a Chelsea point of view, the Chelsea-Arsenal game? Do you know what? I thought it was just horrible. It was a pitiful performance from Chelsea. Last year, do you remember we went to Arsenal and we got beat 5-0? On some level, I feel like it was comparable to that. I feel like it was as bad as that. It was so lacking in any sort of imagination, any sort of invigoration. We were losing 1-0. The manager, it was as if he almost accepted a 1-0 defeat.

36:22You know, Arthur, you're playing Carlisle in the cup. they'd do something with 10 minutes to go, wouldn't they? We did nothing. And do you know what? I've actually done something amazing. I've actually done some preparation, which is very rare. But you won't believe this. There's something going on at the moment, which I believe. I've got to pay for that phone case, by the way. My answer is... He's got a lot of... You've got to be a 50-year-old man at length. It's very useful. It's practical. But I don't know if you can get this. I got this email through from Chelsea when I was on my way here today.

36:51And it says... It's sort of a picture of Maresca. and it says Maresca on competing well at Arsenal. And you think, they're kind of celebrating it. They're almost like normalising mediocrity. They're suggesting that Chelsea going to Arsenal, not competing well actually, being well beat 1-0, it feels like what they're trying to do is redefine our expectations, redefine who we are. I saw a bit of it and it was like an acceptance. It was like 1-0. I'm like, yeah, that's not a bad result. I honestly think he took it. And you look at so many of the players, it's just so uninspiring. There's no pride, there's no desperation to win.

37:35You know, when you think back to what Chelsea represented when you were going head to head. Just try something different, throw a big man up front. It doesn't happen anymore, does it? It just doesn't exist. You've got Christopher Nkunku in the team, who scored three goals all season. You've got Jadon Sancho in the team. I believe he was in the team. I don't know exactly what he did, but he was certainly there on paper. But apparently he was in the team. Don't be sending him back. What's happened to Cole Palmer of late then? Cole Palmer... I know he didn't play yesterday. Yeah, no, he was out. But it has gone a little bit wrong.

38:01But I think you can trace this back, actually. And your thoughts on this are going to be really interesting here. Because did you see the conversation that Maresca had, where he basically said... He was talking about Robert Sanchez, the goalkeeper. And he said, if Robert Sanchez goes long, I'm going to sub him. So you must always play, play, play. Yeah, I saw that interview. You must talk about Enzo Fernandez. Did the crowd jeer in a backward pass or something? That's right. Yeah, there's no forward pass. And effectively, what he said was that your wings are clipped if you're a footballer. You will play my way regardless of the score.

38:32You're losing 1-0 away at Arsenal. It's a derby. A goal here will end their chances of winning the league officially. It will also secure us as one of the favourites for top four. Big result. There's no such thing as a friendly against them. And we didn't go for it. 90th minute, we're knocking it around trying to retain possession. Totally uninspiring. A few weeks ago, he said that you will be subbed if you try something that isn't on his blueprint. So, for example, you pick the ball up 30 yards out. If you were to ping one off the bar, you would more likely be subbed than applauded by the manager, which I think is a disgrace.

39:06And I think that can go some way to perhaps explaining what's happened to Cole Palmer. Cole Palmer is a maverick, a throwback 1970s footballer who kind of plays in an instinctive way. He isn't a formulaic system player. and the manager has told us that if you do things that are unpredictable, if you try something, you will be subbed. Does that explain what's happened to Cole Palmer? It almost feels like you don't really want to be competitive, do you know what I mean? It's hard to explain. When you're watching Mr. Leclerc, like I said, an acceptance to it, and I felt about Cole Palmer for a while, and I'm watching him, it's almost too easy for him to play in that team.

39:46Do you know what I mean? We go back to Letizia, in Southampton and not quite that kind of stuff but it's almost I'm going to play every week I'm going to be the best player I think he needs challenging more I think he should be with a club who want I'm not saying they don't want to win but I don't get the impression the desire that they're desperate to win something Do you think he's going to start getting frustrated? I felt that I commentated on Chelsea Brighton I was commenting Brighton-Chelsea Friday night maybe about a month ago In the cup we played No, it was the league game. And I was watching it, and you know I'm a huge admirer of Cole Palmer, and I was watching it.

40:25He played two passes early on out of this world. He whipped it round here and he ripped it on and put someone in. But the longer the game went on, you could see his frustration with his teammates. And he reminded me a little bit of, Stevie used to get like that at times at Liverpool because he was so much better than everybody else. And it was like he was frustrated. Stevie Gerrard I think the thing Stevie was a local player he was never going to leave really he nearly went a couple of times but to actually do it was a bigger thing than the thought of doing it so he was never going to do it really but as Cole Palmer's not he's not a Chelsea player and this is where I go back to these seven and nine year eight and nine year contracts and that and is it a good thing for the sometimes is it a good thing for the players if you're Cole Palmer and I'm not advocating any causes made and gets out of Chelsea but you know the way it works he's probably got six or seven years after his deal.

41:21If he wanted to leave or if he was missing something in the Champions League because he should be playing for the team or going for the Champions League in my view, I think he's that good. How does he get out? I think they'd sell him though, Jamie. I think that their motivation would be the money. So I think the reason that you're put on a huge contract like that isn't necessarily that we want you to play for Chelsea for the next decade. It's that when eventually we sell you, there's a huge payoff. No, I get that. But then someone goes, okay, we want 150, 180. Someone's going, oh, we're not paying that.

41:49You know what I'm saying? So you're sort of in that. The model, they have to sell. If they don't sell, then no one's going to sign that deal. Do you know what I mean? Without a major release clause and stuff like that. And we've signed so many players that play in that sort of position as well. Like loads. So did another one? Yeah, loads of young kids. And you know when Cole Palmer, like, again, you mentioned the comparison there to Steven Gerrard. I think it's accurate. Can you imagine being Cole Palmer when he's looking for that incisive pass? Firstly, he's not allowed to play it. Then when he does play it, he's playing it to Jadon Sancho, who's had one shot on target since Boxing Day.

42:19You think, like, we've won... Stop slugging our players off. I mean, no, but you know what? How's he playing him? Is he my news? Chelsea have a compulsion to buy. Chelsea have to buy. Obligations. But, oh, well, it's Chelsea. No, but I think what we could do is pay and not take him. Pay more than you can. Pay it, pay it. It's someone else's problem. Remember when I was on this just after Christmas, I was saying to you about the Everton-Chelsea game. I mean, you were up against Sean Dyche, you should have just won, but anyway. But that day I said to you, there was exactly what you're saying, this is three months ago, that day with 20 minutes left.

42:54They could have gone top, because Liverpool weren't playing until the afternoon. And I'm thinking the last 20 minutes, they're going to go for it here. They were passing it around, knocking it around, thinking, you can go top of it. Everton had sort of, in fact, Everton should have won. Jack Addison missed two open goals, basically, near the end, but there was nothing. And it's that way you're saying. No, no, it's so uninspiring. We're not going anywhere. This is why Enzo Morescu is such a... It's just so average. It's just so uninspiring. And ultimately, they've killed... You know when we've had...

43:23I've said it before, but when we've had other managers that didn't necessarily chime with the way that I think Chelsea should be seen or Chelsea should behave, you were furious. You were in there. There was noise. I remember when Rafael Benitez was welcomed. We played Man City at home and they brought out Rafael Benitez and he typically came out in a red tie. The noise was so hostile. It was powerful. and it was brilliant. They've just killed all that. It's so flat now. It's like the managers, it's all philosophy, it's all, it's that or nothing, is it? I think Arteta's a little bit the same as well.

43:55It's that nice, technical, lovely football. Once you get to a certain point, then nothing changes, you know what I mean? They're disciples of Guardiola. I know, but just that's the way it is. It's at every advantage. It's not disciples though, it's the B-Tech version. No, I understand that, I understand, but if you're learning from Guardiola... Yeah, the big difference is with Guardiola, he was winning all the time. You're never in a situation where they're changing. Do you not think, Rourke, that comes down from the ball? That'll do it, we're done. As you saw in that AGM, what's his name? Ed de Hoya or de Bali or whatever his name is.

44:24He was kind of comparing Chelsea to Brighton. Yeah, I know in like a positive way. What are you talking about? Have you seen that take the ball past the ball? Barcelona thing. Barcelona one, and he's talking about having a centre-back who was knocking it long, and he scored two goals and he subbed them at half-time, and that's not what we do. and the lad's like, I've just did two 70-yard balls and we're winning two. And I was like, you won't do that again. You won't play for me. That's why him a bit's left. Thierry Henry said, I scored all these goals. I was when I went to Barcelona. I just had to run to the wing and let someone else go.

44:54It's a mess because Palmer doesn't have the freedom. I can't see what's in it for him. And if you look at our fixtures now, if you look at when we've gone back off the international break, there's absolutely no way that we make the European Cup next year. Absolutely no way. So it's... Do you think they'll change you if you don't? I think Morescu should be sacked. time. Yeah, of course. That's what you think, but do you think the club will? No, I don't think they will. I think that they will pretend that this is fine. I think that ultimately part of the journey. And what they're seeing is they're developing young players, they're going to be able to sell players.

45:24But no, the aspiration at Chelsea isn't that we have to redefine them in our head. We're not a winning machine now who demand the best from... You're in a conference. Adam, I just want to bring... Sorry, Baz, I just want to bring Adam in. I mean, is there... Listening to Rory, but I mean, is there something of a feel-good factor just come back to Manchester United in the last week or two? I don't know about feel-good factor, but it's like we're starting to see some glimpses of what Ruben Amarim wants from the team and some of the younger players. Because one of the things that I think for us at the moment is with the PSR issues, we're probably only going to be able to sign three or four players in the summer.

45:56So we're going to have to heavily rely on youth and bringing young players through. And it's been good to see a few of our younger players, like Patrick Dorgi, who we signed, actually performing quite well. Obviously progressing in the Europa League, I think it's important because if we can get into the Champions League for next season, we've already seen how financially beneficial it can be for football clubs. But I think it's always easy to win games towards the end of the season when you're not playing for anything and everyone kind of relaxes and there's no pressure on you and stuff. So I don't want to be fooled by that.

46:24But there are some glimpses of hope and I think Ruben Amrim's starting to settle in. The fans love him. Still got his song in my head from the other day at the King Power Stadium. and what? You sing it, you know it, you've got it in your head. Let's hear it. You can't do that. Make a serenade us. No, but it's just good to feel like, you know, and weirdly, I know this is still bad for Manchester United, but we've only lost four out of the last 17. It doesn't feel like that when you're in it because it almost feels like we're losing one every other game. But yeah, there's been good signs. Aidan Heaven looks like a bargain from them lot for a million quid, which is good.

47:01And Scholes is coming around to do it. There we go. There we go.

47:08I've liked him from the start. I think he's solid, man. I think when you said he was worse than Maguire, I just... I think you said Maguire was better than him. I think he's what we thought Maguire was going to be. He's been what we thought Maguire was going to be. Yeah, I think he's the player we thought we signed when we signed Maguire. You think he's an£80 million player? No, I think he's a lot better than Maguire. Look, he has done a lot better. Of course he has. I just... Man United 13th in the Premier League. I know, and that's why it's hard to take positives from it all. Bruno's a positive, I suppose.

47:43Hoyland scored, Garnaccio scored. I think the last few weeks, we've looked better. Do you know who I love, Scorsi? Joshua Zerks. He's never going to score a goal, but he's so fucking good. Oh, that's good, then. On the ball, he's just so good. There's something about him. He's a goal scorer, wasn't he? But he's not going to score a goal. He's a nine and a half, he said, isn't he? but I think if you can get runners either side of him really on the ball it's so good yeah there's a talent there there is yeah maybe I'm just deluded I don't know he doesn't look like a goal scorer to me no he's never going to be I think he will bring people into play and he's also shown a bit of fight as well after he got booed off maybe we should start booing everyone off and they'll start you know what a few of them will come back from the dead you think of Casemiro as well last couple of weeks do you know when I was saying about Chelsea how we kind of have to redefine certain things like we're not the club that we once were have I just witnessed the redefinition of Manchester United?

48:35When I think about the players that have played for that club, when I think about the icons that have led the line, and now you're talking about Joshua Zerksi as if he's... Don't look at me when you say that. OK, I'll direct it in. This is weird. You don't know ball, though. It's far too old to understand what that means. Adam, can I ask you about... I'll ask you Scorsese first. all the interviews Jim Ratcliffe's done over these last sort of week or so I mean what are your thoughts about that because you put something on Instagram about you would be back I didn't know if you were taking the piss I couldn't quite work it out I don't know myself I don't really know what's going on do you know I was just pleased that I suppose as United fans for the last 20 years whatever it's been we're pleased that we've just had a voice I think somebody said it didn't really matter what I said and you can be quite gullible at times can't you and you believe everything is said just because you've not heard from anybody you've not heard anybody say anything what was it three to five years we're going to have a team competing again look you don't know how realistic it is do you it's all up in the air and as I said last week words are cheap aren't they you don't really we can go on and say anything about any football club and say in five years we're going to be the best in ten years we're going to have the biggest best stadium in the world, it's just, you can say anything.

50:00I feel, because for a long time we've been called the richest club in the world, haven't we? I feel like we're begging a little bit, you know, coming out, asking for the stadium, we need£2 billion, it feels like we have to sell players to buy players. Just ask the government, just ask the British taxpayer for it. Well, that's what they have done, I think they've said no. Something's going on, isn't it? I believe it. Something has to be. A tax exile, doesn't even pay tax here, and he's the richest man in the country, and he's asking a taxpayer to bail him out. It's unbelievable. Do you think what he said about the club going bankrupt is true?

50:32No, I don't. I thought that was a bit... I think without him coming in and putting some money in, we were in big, big trouble. Not bankrupt, though. Not bankrupt, but we wouldn't have been able to sign anyone. There was no cash flow there if he doesn't come in. Just cut back on sellers. It feels like he's bought the club. He hasn't got enough money, if you know what I mean. He's put the 300 million quid in and brilliant, but it doesn't really scratch us. I think also there'll be an unwillingness to want to put more in when you only own 20-odd percent of the club. You're going to have to look over the table and go, what the hell are you doing over there?

51:00Put your hands in your pocket. That's why Gary pushed you. Yeah, that's not happening, is it? Because I thought Gary would be a bit softer on the Glazers, but I was glad to see him push him on that. I know he can't really say anything about them because he's business partners, but he did allude to some bad decisions being made by them. Again, like Scoles just said, it was refreshing to hear communication come from him. I think he dodged some of the questions by saying, well they weren't my decisions it's like you've already mentioned how much the scrutiny and the pressure is getting to you and then for you to go well someone else made those decisions well shouldn't you be on top of ticket prices and those kind of things if you know you're going to take the backlash for it so I didn't like how we dodged those questions but again it was just refreshing to hear someone come out and and speak directly to the fans and also whether it's bluffing or not or whether it's going to happen or not someone with the intentions of actually getting us back to where we belong because for far too long we've just been a cow that the Glazers have been milking for all their dividends and whatever.

51:57So it's good to hear someone's actually putting the football first. It made sense because it's gone back to the ticket price. It made sense, didn't it? Because we heard the story that he's put the ticket price up. He hasn't had it. Yeah, but whether it's 5 % of the tickets or 100 % of the tickets, you still shouldn't be charging kids, children, OAPs, 66 quid to come to Old Trafford when you're watching it. They were the original price of the tickets, weren't they? No. That's what he said. My ticket for example cost 42 quid on average for my season ticket so each ticket will cost 42 quid. These are tickets that have been sent back weren't they?

52:31It's cheaper against Brentford than it is against Man City or whatever. Can I ask you about the stadium? Because that's probably why I did the interviews and I did the interview with Gary for the overlap and all these different things with papers but I think the stadium stuff came out the next day. Exciting stuff. Regeneration. and all that. You know, as a Manchester United fan, what did you think when you saw the stadium? I couldn't believe it. I thought it looked a bit weird. It looks like something had to do bags. Yeah, it looks a bit weird. It looks like a circus. I'm trying to think, like Manchester, working class area, great history football club.

53:03I think it just, I don't know, I wouldn't have liked that. It's not real, is it? I don't think it's ever going to happen. It would be a great stadium if that was being built in Beijing. That's what I'm saying. Wow. That's fantastic. I want to go there one day. It doesn't feel like Manchester or Manchester United. It's also like, I don't want a new stadium. Renovate Old Trafford. I may be in the minority. They did a poll among season ticket holders and I think only 30 % said that, just renovate Old Trafford. But I go to some of these stadiums now, like Wembley and that, and it's just soulless. Speak for yourself.

53:30Do you not think it feels like the right time, no, Adam? You see all these modern... Maybe when it comes around, I'll get all giddy and we're going to go to this new stadium and we're going to have a tackle stand on all this. You could do what they did at the New Campus. It's not being built for you. It's been built for a worldwide consumer base that goes to Old Trafford once in a lifetime, twice in a lifetime. It's got nothing to do with the season ticket. You mentioned the Aful Towers, didn't you? You actually mentioned other events there as well, didn't you? It's been built so that somebody like Beyonce fancies playing there.

53:59It's got nothing to do with loyal season ticket holders in the Stratford end. It's really out of order what it is. And I have no idea why football fans kind of buy into this. Equally, you know when people then start, because Chelsea have a similar thing going on, people who never go to Stamford Bridge, by the way, are telling me that we need to move. What they're doing is they're trying to pretend that this is for the football team. And it's got absolutely nothing to do with the football team. It's about trying to increase the amount of money that the club can make. And genuinely, can you think of an example, any example in football, where a team has left their old stadium and improved?

54:36And you can't say Man City. But it took Arsenal years to get anywhere near. Arsenal have improved. They were being doubles in that old stadium. It was a glorious stadium hybrid. It was a new building. It was sensational. But also, Rod, again, I don't want a new stadium. I'm happy where I am in the Stretford end. But they can't extend Old Trafford beyond what it is at the moment. To do that, you've got to take out the railway by all them. You can't extend what is currently Old Trafford. I don't think that's true either. There's more difficulties there as well. I don't think that's true. Was it either extending, though, Adam?

55:03What is it now, 80 ,000? It's very selfish, but I'm not arsed. Keep it, 77 ,000. Our one's a lot. That's what I mean. It's a lot. It's just falling down, isn't it? It is. There's leaking everywhere. The facilities aren't there. They're not there, aren't they? It doesn't tie into what Jim Macklin was saying as well, in the sense that we have got more money. We need to turn Manchester United. Really, a lot of that interview was, we need more money. Let's turn it into more of an entertainment hub. Well, how do we do that? We make it a very modern-day stadium. We charge a lot of prices. Also, from his perspective, the club that he's bought, if it's at Old Trafford, compared to the club that he will sell or will be sold on his behalf if they're playing in that circus.

55:42It will be worth more money. Ultimately, it's just making the asset worth so much more money for him. But I don't know if you can say it's for him. It's not for you. I think it's one of his things where when he's an old under here, he wants to have that legacy of I brought Manchester United back. So I don't think he's doing it with the intention of eventually selling it because, you know. He's seven, so is that what he said? Yeah, you know what I mean? He's got to pay for the staff, Simon's just somehow, hasn't he? That is tough, yeah.

56:17Luke, I'm going to come to you. Man City. It's just weird. You've just said their stadium could be falling apart. Has your team fallen apart? Nah, I mean, we've got one point in three games and we're still somehow in a Champions League spot. It's ridiculous. But the games we've got coming up, if you look at our fixture, if you do have a pretty favourable fixture, We've got Leicester coming up next at home. So, I mean, there's something really wrong if we're not beating them at home. I think given the position we're in now, I mean, I know there's so few points in it. Drop three points down and we'd be 10th.

56:51So I think we've got to be cautious that if we do lose a couple more games, we're going to very quickly go from 5th to 10th. And suddenly we're going to be in a bigger predicament. But as long as we can basically do better than the teams beneath us for the rest of the season, we're going to get in the Champions League next season. and that's got to be obviously the aim. We've got the FA Cup and that'll be a very tough game. Bournemouth away. We lost there in the league. They're not going to roll over. It's one of their biggest games, you know, probably ever if they can get, you know, a chance of winning the FA Cup.

57:18So, yeah, we just don't have any consistency. Where have that cockiness gone that you had the other week? Well, I mean, we are still the reigning four-peat Premier League champions, so you go over there. We've still got a few more weeks of that. I don't think anyone will ever say that again, to be honest. So there's a cockiness here, but I'm being realistic stick about the rest of the season. What's the need for next year? Oh, sorry. Go on, eh? What do you need for next year? You've obviously got to rebuild, haven't you? Yeah. I think... Is Pep the right man to rebuild? I think he is the right man.

57:47He's rebuilt before. If you look at the squad he inherited, everyone assumes it was this, you know, God squad. It really wasn't. It was one of the worst teams we'd had in that, you know, era since the takeover. And he's done a lot. I think anyone criticising Pep, come on. He's had... What positions do you need? What positions does he need? I think going forward, Haaland's had a lot of work this season. He's done well. Everyone's going to look at City as a whole and go, Haaland scored 22 goals in the league this season. He scored a big goal against Real Madrid. Haaland needs some support. Marmouche can do a bit of that, but also there's a lot of plays in the team.

58:22Everyone's emotionally attached to the likes of John Stones, Ilkay Gundogan, and some of these will stay, but they don't play. John Stones gets injured every week. He doesn't provide enough minutes for the team to stay. What about your keeper? Yeah, that's a difficult one because... That goal at Forest in the week. Yeah. So, Edison, you know, there was a talk of him leaving last year. Ortega, everyone thought was going to be this brand new spanking goalkeeper. He's not quite been cutting it this season, especially, you know, given more minutes. Edison's been very injury prone. So, yeah, I think definitely goalkeeper.

58:55I think we could see one or if not two goalkeepers coming. Some people are talking about James Trafford. We've got a buyback clause on him for 40 mil. That's not enough. I don't think that's... What do you mean? He's linked to us, hasn't he? What do you mean? You're not going to win the league with James? He's struggling in the Premier League. I don't think he'll be a number one. I don't think we'll get him. But yeah, we need a new goalkeeper. Defensively, we've had so many injuries. You think Pep's spoken about last summer when he's kind of taken a responsibility for not doing enough business.

59:25Do you think... I suppose he's not really... Is it not weird that he's mostly involved in the... I know you have to use a manager's opinion, but usually the transfers that a club like Man City will make, it will be kind of from the system, right? Like through the scouting department and director of football and all that. Do you think he got that wrong? Well, I don't know if he got it wrong. We're going through a period of change anyway with that. We're getting a new guy in, Viana. So it's like, was the current guy just kind of holding off for that to happen? The way City operate in the transfer market, obviously we spend a lot of money, but we don't go and spend, with maybe the exception of Grealish, we don't go and spend£120 million.

1:00:01When Liverpool signed Van Dijk, I was watching the City documentary from that season back. City were in for Van Dijk and the price tag got too high and we just pulled out. So it's a lot more strategic than they think. I don't think Pep's there going, let's have him, let's have him. He's obviously involved, but yeah, I think there's a team of people and I think, yeah, there's going to be a rebuild. We're going to spend a lot of money this summer. Well, there was always talk that the verdict would come out in March. Yeah, I think it's going to be in the next week. Okay. I mean, if you found guilty, what would be a fair punishment for you, do you think?

1:00:29I suppose you've got to break it down. It's not a black or white, are we guilty or are we not? Some people might see it like that, but there's so much going on. There's going to be, you know, there's a tiered approach to this. It's going to be something goes wrong, something goes right, I think. I could see us getting a hefty points deduction. We could end up, I don't quite think we'll end up in the Championship next year, but we could find ourselves definitely out of Europe. There could be a big fine. I don't think anyone here knows. You thought you'd done nothing wrong? No The question This is what politicians do He said What about if the verdict Comes back guilty I'm not going to say Well we're not guilty I personally don't think We're guilty I think we're going to be Found not guilty But if Like you said If we are guilty That's not what we're Talking about You don't actually think You're not guilty No I do No one does No one does The only way That they get this off The only What I'm confident I know you said that Last time You're confident You don't genuinely Believe that man The only reason you What do you know about it I know a lot about it I've read it You did that joke last time as well.

1:01:27If you're watching Salah take a penalty, do you genuinely believe he's going to score the penalty? Yes. And why is that? Why is that though? Why do you think Salah's going to score the penalty? But what's that got to do with it before? Right, so I've seen the board time and time again prove me right, that they've done the right thing, we had the Champions League thing, and that's the logic there. That's what sports watching is. Well, all I'm saying is, decision after decision, and you look at the way they've come in, the way they've invested, everything's gone right for me. Every decision they've made, bar the Super League, has gone right for me.

1:02:00At my point, it's fine to go they might have done something wrong. I hope they haven't, but that's fine as well. No, no, I'm not going to say that because I'm confident. I am genuinely confident. He doesn't. I genuinely, no, I'm genuinely confident. So have you got yourself involved in this argument? You just stick to arguments about Spurs. We'll get on to that. Frankfurt next in the Europa League. But back to a little bump yesterday again. You know the worst thing about yesterday? you know what, I didn't see the game, it was at the cup final, was you felt like it would have been a surprise if Fulham didn't win.

1:02:29No, it did. I looked at that picture, man. Fulham would be top of it. Yeah, no, look, they're on good side. They're on good side. I mean, the narrative will be that Spurs have fouled once again. But Fulham deserve all the credit because they genuinely should be competing in European football next year. That aside, Spurs have lost 19 games this year. And the question now has to be about Ange Postokoglu and whether or not they're... 19 league games? No, no. There's 15 league games. 19 games in all competition. Right, OK. Do you think he'd be sacked today? I think he could be sacked like today. So it's a fair question.

1:03:05It's a fair question because I don't think he would have survived in many other football clubs. We are in a situation where we've got the Europa League and it sort of all lies on whether or not we get through against Frankfurt over two legs. If he does, then he stays. If he doesn't, then the board have to make a decision about whether or not he's the right man, but it has to be made quick because if you're looking to who might replace him, some people like the idea of Iriola from Bournemouth, he's not going to come if it doesn't work out for Postolkoglu next season. He's not going to leave. So the decision has to be made.

1:03:37But as I've said previously, nothing really changes with Daniel Levy. Is there an expectation that as soon as the Europa League run is over, if you don't get to the final, do you think they would make a decision? straight away? I think they have to. They have to make a decision so that they can forward plan. Whether they will or not is another thing, but if they get knocked out, given the fact that we've lost so many games this season, it'd be tough to see it in place in the summer. Yeah, I don't know. But the fact is, the reality is, if you have Van der Ven and Romero fit all season, statistically, when they've played, we've averaged around fifth in the Premier League.

1:04:15Is Van der Ven fit now? Is he... They're managing his minutes so that he... Basically, it would be an absolutely unmitigated disaster if he gets injured again for any chances of winning the Europa League so it's all about that I feel like he's been back training for a few weeks now though and then him around it he made an appearance against Elfsborg for 45 minutes and then didn't play for another month so they're really concerned about his muscles and his hamstrings rather not his general muscles his muscles they're worried about all his muscles but yeah so I don't think Angers Elf put himself media-wise now, it's been strange the last couple of weeks.

1:04:52I see him arguing with a fan yesterday. If someone mugs you off... He just walked by, mate. Walk by. You don't know what he said. He called him... You're great in getting involved in his thing now, aren't you? No, if someone's mugging you off in any walk of life, you don't let it go, do you? Someone's being an arsehole. I didn't see that flamble. Was that yesterday? So someone was leaning over, had a go at him, said something to him. Is he a Fulham fan or a Tottenham fan? We don't know. Tottenham fans. Rory doesn't know. He's walking across the pitch. He doesn't know his arse from his elbow. He doesn't know.

1:05:24I think he's changing. No, he was walking in the tunnel. He was walking in the tunnel. Oh, so this wasn't yesterday? It was yesterday. Yeah, it was yesterday. He's going in the changing room. Yeah, so he's walking across the pitch. Now into the tunnel. He's inside. It's not a Spurs fan. The guy's shouting down at me. At Fulham, it's always a Tottenham take. Whenever a London team plays at Fulham, you can assume that at least 50 % of the home end is Tottenham. We're always just making things up for a fact. It's a fair assumption. So there is a wider point here in the fact that perhaps Ange-Post Coghle needs to be a little bit less sensitive, but he's under huge amounts of pressure.

1:05:59He believes his way is the right way. We have a fully fit squad throughout the season. We'd be in a different position, but we didn't have that. So the fact that he has a go at a fan who called him fat or something like that, that's what's happening. There's video footage of him being called in all sorts of things. It's a legitimate question.

1:06:21I'm not sure you're right for us, Andrew. Fuck off. Listen, talking about European football, we're going to bring Ellie in from Nottingham Forest, and this is your debut on the Fan Devator. Thanks for coming in. I mean, how excited are you right now? Another brilliant win at the end of the weekend, and you're not far away from almost clinching European football, but obviously you hope it'll be the Champions League. I'm 100 % certain we're finishing in Champions League. I am so confident. I mean, we're six points clear of Man City, if I'm right. And we've also got the easiest run of fixtures out of everyone.

1:06:55We have only two games against the top ten sides in the last nine games. Everyone else has three, four, five. We've got this. It would be our own fault if we don't finish in the Champions League. I'm 100 % certain. You know, there's a lot of big teams who... We're a big team. No, I know, but what I mean is the teams that... Apologies. Apologies. But, you know, there's teams who probably we expect to be there. You know, Manchester United, maybe Tottenham in the past. Chelsea and Man City are fighting for these positions as well. I mean, if you're going to get into those positions or maybe even a Bournemouth get in there or maybe even a Fulham, I mean, from your point of view, is there one team out of those big teams that you'd like to see you knock off the way by getting there yourselves?

1:07:41Man City. Ooh. Good answer. You're not going to do it, so dream on, basically. we'll get there you beat them last week didn't you yeah exactly so we'll get there you're not going to knock on that and we don't need to spend like what 180 million hang on let's just pause one of these two teams has had a points deduction for overspending yours is on the way yours is on the way in the post brother yeah come on one is factually a cheater and the other one isn't so until that's a different case and if you've got better lawyers yeah I think you've got more money for lawyers we've not got Clattenburg sat here posing the rat No, he's coming next week.

1:08:17Ellie, I want to ask you about Morgan Gibbs-White. A big sort of feroar about the fact that he wasn't in the original squad. I couldn't believe it. But he's now being added to the squad, I think, because Cole Palmer's dropped out of the squad. I mean, what were your thoughts initially on him being out and now that he's back in? I thought it was crazy that he wasn't in. I do feel like there's a big six bias. There are some players in the squad that absolutely shouldn't be. and Morgan Gibbs-White, not only are we in third position in the best league in the world, he's one of the key reasons for that.

1:08:50He plays every game when he's fit and when he's not suspended. So how he's not been chosen straight off the bat is crazy. It feels like we're going back in time. Why are we bringing on 34-year-olds back from wherever? I don't get it. Why are we going back in time? We want to move forward. I was so excited when we got Thomas Tuchel as manager. I was thinking this is really nice. I defended him. I was expecting better things. And it's a blast from the past. Come on, like, we want to progress. Morgan Gibbs, like, 100 % should have been in there from the get-go. I think there was definitely calls and conversation around Elliot Anderson as well and Callum Hodgson-Odoi.

1:09:26And I just think we're being disrespected as a club. Yeah, we're not your big six, but we're Nottingham Forest. You know, we're third in the Premier League. Two European champions. Exactly. Just because in the last few years, Spurs and Man United and you big six have been around there. Yeah, obviously your big clubs, but give us some respect for the form that we're in and the players that we actually do have. If you want to see England do well, you would surely go, Gibbs White needs to be in there. Would Nottingham Forest get the respect that you think they deserve if Nuno was given manager of the year?

1:09:57Do you think he would deserve that if Nottingham Forest finished in the Champions League positions? I think he'd definitely deserve it, although I will say as much as it pains me, there is obviously a conversation for Schlott. And I wouldn't be angry if it was either way. But I don't think we are getting the respect we deserve. I don't think Villa and Newcastle are getting the respect that they deserve. I think there's just this really strange thinking that it's the big six. And if you're not big six, you haven't made it yet. And I don't really understand that. And it's always like, oh, Spurs are having a bad season.

1:10:25Man Utd are having a bad season. But what about all of Newcastle's good seasons? What about all of Villa's good seasons? And hopefully it's next for us with Forrest, Bournemouth and Fulham. It's our turn now. And I'd say we're certainly back where we belong. I just think there's a bit of disrespect on teams that aren't the big six. What a debut.

1:10:51We've got to go to Baz and we're talking about managers of the year. If this season was going on for another six months, would David always be in the run? It would be walkie, absolutely walkie. Listen, it's been fantastic. It only took them ten games to get what it took the other fella half a season to get points wise and Everton have had the slippers on for the last three games you know they should have won more you know United having a chat with Adams the worst United team I've ever seen in my life at Goodison here a week until the last 20 apart from Fernandes who was unbelievable and Dogu that Dogu was brilliant other than that you know Everton should have waltzed that game really but yeah it's been brilliant obviously got managed a month on Saturday which is why the game was dreadful but they didn't lose and it's nine unbeatens speak to us then I mean right now it's not really about the team you're safe it's about the last how many games left at Goodison now?

1:11:47four so four games left at Goodison I mean are you privy to anything that the club are doing in these last three or four games is there something on the last game are the old players coming back? yeah there's going to be stuff going on they haven't yeah Everton I'm talking to you they haven't revealed anything yet but obviously the Southampton game which will be the final game is a few rumours that it might go to Monday night and I think that would be a bad decision really because there'll be so many people who've made arrangements to get there because it is the final ever game. Before then they're doing little bits and pieces in between but obviously all the eyes are on that final game.

1:12:23When would you like to be the game? I have thought about this and thinking would TV get involved? I think it's the FA Cup final weekend. Everyone's playing on the Sunday and that's why there's a bit of talk that someone might want a Monday night game and it might be I won't name any neither it might be what would you like what would you like to be if your final time going to Goodison Park tell me what that day would look like for you see for me it should be a 3 o 'clock kick off and we just it's not for everybody else is it the league's going to be done so there'll be nothing there the relegation's done so there's not going to be anything there there might be the Champions League race who knows that might be on so it doesn't really matter the interest should just be for us it's just for Everton and at the stadium I get that remember they had West Ham United on for West Ham's last ever game it was a Tuesday night I think but it should just be about the Evertonians no one's going to want to leave that granddaddy when that final whistle goes if it went to a Monday at 8 o 'clock then some people are going to have to put it you can't go on the A-link can you how are you going to get people out you're not going to get it's been there since 1892 it's going to be as each game is getting chalked off.

1:13:34You're starting to go, this is going to be so weird. The new stadium's incredible. It's incredible. But it's not Goodison Park and people will. You're going to try and keep your seat, Baz? Are you going to try it genuinely? You know what, mate? I would, but my missus would just go, why have you brought this seat home? Like, for what reason? You know what I mean? But I know that a lot of people are. I think, I don't know whether the club are planning on trying, well, he will probably plan on trying to flog them to you when you've left. But I'm sure there's people putting some spanners down the socks not to do anything other than take this What I would say, Baz, is savour it No, I know, I know Flav, this is why I will never forgive the other fella ever because he talked I remember one of the press conferences that I nearly booted my telly through because he said I've got no responsibility to make this a good last season, it doesn't make footballers any better and David Moyes has come in and gone we've got to make this unbelievable for the rest of the season and since then Everton I think we lost the first game because we had a day with the team we haven't lost any other game we played Liverpool even Saturday they were walking with flip flops on West Ham we still should have won the game he scored in the 91st minute Carlos Alcalá misses a chance to win it a minute after it and going for it and that changed the feel I couldn't I used to get in under Deitch and couldn't wait to get out and be like just finish or I can go home now it's wanting no but it is because it's you've got someone your only MO is to sit in your penalty box with 11 men and kick it as Isaac look that's not football that went out years ago you know what I mean so he's brought that back so them feelings are getting more real now as we approach it and there's only four did you go to the test event no mate it was a like a lottery thing and I never I never got it and the next one I'll be honest with you I hope my lad doesn't watch this because I don't even want to go to this next one because I want to go in when it's the first team and it's full the next one's 25 ,000 26 ,000 I want to be there when it's the first team and the place is full so Zach I apologise Have they arranged a game for that?

1:15:36Playing Bolton a week on Sunday Bolton beat team for the 21s and then they have an announcement So I mean like a proper full house No it's going to be in the summer so it'll be sort of August I mean if Everton have got anything about them they'll have like Arsenal do It's going to be a big club shouldn't it? Well the Freakins have owned us home roaming so we played them last summer so maybe do like a little tournament and then that way you get a full house don't you before I mean you must be looking forward to going there No I am listen I went to Go to Sun a lot as a kid obviously watching the games a lot of brilliant memories there and it was funny I think Rory you were talking about we were talking about the Man United Stadium before and the design of it and the memories they got but I do think almost 99 % of Evertonis do want to move it is you've got the memories but you know the stadium's holding your back isn't it absolutely you've got to go forward like the feedback we've had because obviously I've not been in it is that it's so steep and it's on top of the pitch so I think a lot of grounds and you know the likes of West Ham without being disrespectful that's an Olympics that's an athletic stadium you're miles away and even some of the other ones where at this new place you're right on top of it so that's all you can do try to make it as close to to Goodison as possible in terms of the atmosphere so can't wait and hopefully we'll keep winning and if someone said they had easy runnings watch out Nottingham Forest and watch out Man City and Chelsea bro I've got to do you as well alright well that's a great way to end another episode of the Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet and we'll see you next time

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