Pep In Pursuit of Arsenal, Slot’s Struggles & Man United's Revival | The Overlap Fan Debate

0:00My name's Carell, also known as the HMRC of football. Welcome back to the Overlap Fan Debate Jamie Carragher, Wayne Rooney Come to the stage Everyone give them a round of applause Me and Harry Scott With a carbon arrows together That's maybe where Liverpool's problem started I needed to be there What do I do? This sounds like You were there with me, was I? I can't remember what state was I in I'd rather Arsenal did it It's only their fans on social media That you have to avoid That's why we've got gap between us. He's on the pitch for Liverpool Football Club doing this. Fans took it to me. You might stay, you know.

0:39We were lacking a little bit of clinicality in front of goal. Is that a word? Clinicality is now. Is it? It's amazing. At the moment, this club is rotten from top to bottom. Are you worried as an Arsenal fan? No, no. No, no, we're fine. Absolutely fine. No, I'm worried. I'm worried. I've seen the Bobby Zamora one the other day when he said he played in Sweden when Zlatan scored over a kick. He went even in the squad.

1:06Thanks, Carell. And hello and welcome back to the Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet. Wayne Rooney is back with me once again and with all the fans as well. Welcome back, Wayne. Thank you. OK. Right, first of all, what's with the plaster? That Van Dive? Phil Barton was back in his case. Yeah, I don't think I had to say it on camera. No, I go in the punch bag at home when I just want to let a bit of steam off. What's his name? It's an old scarring, it's just opening up a little bit. All right then, Waz, the weekend you've been up to, a bit of a punditry, wasn't it? Match of the day? Yeah, I've done match of the day last night.

1:44Some good games, actually. Now I went to the Everton game on Saturday, took my youngest boy to touch Everton, played well. It was a good win, so... I saw that you were in the... Was that the director's box or the 500 club? Yeah, I was in the postage, yeah. But no, I... I got out by the Taipan got out there and walked down and the stadium was brilliant when I saw your picture I was trying to work out where you were in the stadium and there was a feather in front of you or a big trilby was that Reedy? I knew it really right we normally start with Gareth don't we and I was told we were starting with Gareth this morning I said no we always start with Gareth we have to give Lucas flowers you're dodging the Liverpool question again with Gareth no I don't normally turn up when they were going to get me I was going to say that.

2:29I'm surprised you're not ranked 6th today, mate. I know. I mean, where this has come from, I don't turn up anyway when Liverpool get beat. But, Luke. Yeah, you've had to turn up today, mate. Yeah, I was turning up, because I've seen you put a post on last night. You couldn't wait for the overlap today. Yeah. Did Gareth bite back? He did. He had a little bite back. I see Gareth have a little bite back. Yeah, I saw that. He knitted, but he did. Yeah, unbelievable. Luke, talk about me. Talk about yesterday. Come on. Where do you want to start? Pep's 1 ,000th game. Yeah, Pep's 1 ,000th game. I think 716 wins which is just ridiculous He's had some good teams though to get down Yeah he has but I mean he's the best manager so you get the best car if you're the best driver you know what I mean and yeah I mean it was an unbelievable game I thought Jeremy Doku this season as well has really kicked on obviously Harlan missed the pen and I was thinking is it going to be a classic case if we just don't take our chances and then Harlan gets the header 99 Premier League goals I think it's like 108 games we keep obviously putting the pressure on Liverpool score a goal it was ruled out for offside and then was on offside we get the second goal and then the third goal in the second half Doku unbelievable I think maybe second half we weren't quite as good but I think we massively deserve to win and yeah we're on the march now since the last international break I think six wins and a loss so Arsenal dropping You've come around with your stats today haven't you?

3:45I've got the stats all the time but no one ever listens I just get the same usual jokes but it's nice to be able to speak for once You've watched City for a good few years now under Pep you've seen title winning teams I think the majority of people in this country will have seen Manchester City so far this season and probably thought it's not the Man City of old but there's a long way to go do you see a title winning team in this Man City sort of squad and team right now? I always say it's too early after 10 games and as much as that sounds a bit of a cop out I think with City it's always the same if you can get to January, February time and you're sort of in touch.

4:25I remember the treble season. We were in touch with Arsenal, even with Liverpool as well. If you're in touch, City are better in the second half of the season. So if you can just get in there, I mean, we're up there, four points off Arsenal. I think some of the looser screws are kind of coming a little bit tight and now the likes are Nunes, O 'Reilly at left-back has been really good. Nico in midfield looks good. I think we're looking sharp. We've got Donna Rummer in net, who's been unbelievable so far. I think Arsenal have probably been the best team so far, hence why they're top of the league as well but I think we're getting there and we're getting there slowly, it was a bad start for us and now we're just slowly kicking in aren't we?

5:00I think Arsenal are favourites, I think they're the best team this season but I agree, I think City just getting close to them Arsenal have had the history of being close and then getting a bit nervous towards the end so I think City will put massive pressure on Arsenal and I think the Monk people win the league. When you've been involved in these title races over the years you've been in front you've probably come from behind as well do you think Arsenal would be extra nervous because it's City and it's City who've actually come from behind twice and actually caught them haven't they? Yeah I do I think as I said Harland's on absolute fire and I think just with the experience of Pep and knowing how to win the league I think if you're an Arsenal player you're looking behind and you think oh Jesus they're the Arga and coming again so I think they'll be really nervous I think How many players have Arsenal had won the Premier League?

5:56Have you got any? No? Have you? Jesus. Oh, does the City one? So yeah, I think with City coming behind them, I think that's put massive pressure on them. You just mentioned Haaland and you just said he's on fire. You've played with unbelievable goalscorers for England and Manchester United. I said a few weeks ago, I think he's the best goal scorer we've ever seen in English football. I mean, where would you rank? Would you agree with that? Has anyone else missed out? Yeah, no, I'd probably agree. I think his game this season has got better as well. I think his hold-up play has been better, his link-up play is better.

6:37But in terms of goal scoring, he's just a machine. I'd like to think Jamie doesn't think he's picked the wrong club anymore because I remember in that first season you were questioning it. But like you said, I think this season, compared to last season, Well, let me answer. You've answered me a question. I didn't think you'd want to answer it, mate. No, I mean, when I said that, no matter what club Harland goes, he was going to score goals. It doesn't matter what club he's gone to. But I still believe, probably not so much this season, but I think Harland, Man City could probably, or another club could get more out of him in terms.

7:12You know the run he did midweek? I was at Man City midweek. remember he got the ball on the half and he went on this run he set Nick O 'Reilly up for a chance I think because Man City aren't as direct and play so much football I actually think if he played for a club that was maybe a little bit more direct and got the ball into I think he could bully defenders more like the Brentford goal type yes that's what I'm saying so you can't pick if you play for Pep you're going to win and Harland's going to score goals but I actually when we just call him a goal scorer which is what he is for City he takes his chances is unbelievable but actually seeing him bully people I think he could do that a little bit like what Drogba did I think if he played for a team as I said he'd get the ball in a little bit quick I think we'd see a little bit more of that of him I think you don't he scored not many goals you don't need to see that I agree I don't think you need to see him being what Drogba was I think Drogba needed that for his game I think with Haaland now I don't think City are his possession based team now as much as what it was.

8:16I think they do go forward a bit more. So when you're saying then, you think Haaland's brought more to his game this season, do you think that's the point I'm sort of... What I'm saying, you're talking about a goal... No, I just think... I thought he was sloppy. I think he's still a bit sloppy and technically he's not as good as some of the players are getting the ball out of his feet and turning and stuff. I think that's not been his strength. But I think this season he's got a bit better at that. and he looks a bit leaner I think as well I know he's loves them steaks doesn't he he's in great shape raw milk isn't he yeah yeah raw milk he loves it Gareth is it about time some of the Liverpool squad were on raw milk it's worth a try isn't it try anything at this stage I just think you know right now especially away from home we look so fragile both in terms of teams being able to score against us but also mentally I keep seeing things where I think it looks like they feel sorry for themselves a little bit and yesterday I felt like City targeted Canarte with and without the ball, let Canarte have the ball in terms of build-up, targeted them when they had the ball.

9:22And he's a prime example of it. I think if he makes a mistake in a game, that's it then. He's going to make more. And that's a sort of example of what I mean about this sort of mental fortitude, that sort of lachen at the moment. I think we've still obviously got a good squad. We've obviously got good players. I think we can go on a better run than we've been on. but to do a run of four consecutive away defeats is really worrying and I don't know what the quick fix is and I don't know whether the manager knows what the quick fix is. Sorry Gareth, are you looking more at the manager or the playing staff?

9:59A bit of both really because if you think about the Real Madrid performance which I thought was excellent I thought you really saw a fight from the players aggression from the players. But that at home, you've got 60 ,000 putting them on. And it just wasn't there at City. You know, City were doing that to us. You know, you look at Vert any time he got the ball, no matter where he was on the pitch, their players were flying into him. I think a couple of the buttons they picked up were challenges on him. Bernardo just chopped him. Yeah, challenges on him. And that was like, we're not letting you do anything.

10:30And that's what we were doing to Real Madrid the other day. So what happens away from, I know it's a huge thing, home advantage obviously, but what happens to them mentally away from home right now because it's not right. And if it's not right, we'll make it hard to beat then. Do you know what I mean? And go from that basis. And we just feel too open. Teams are picking us off. I think it's 17 goals conceded now in 11 games. That's not in close to something that's going to get you the title. What if Arsenal conceded five or something? Yeah, about that. It'll be hard to beat though. You need every player to work.

11:02Yeah. And I just think this season, teams have targeted down the right. Salah doesn't run back. as much as I know he hasn't always done it but I think there's an obvious concern for Liverpool down there because he's not getting back and not having the consistency of a right back playing every game he's had three right backs he's played this season Thomas Liglone there's different in as well I think teams are targeting well Kukurea come out after the Chelsea game said they targeted down that side and I think City done it yesterday and I felt sorry for Bradley yesterday he needed help and Gravenberg doing as much as he can to get across and help him but then there's spaces in the middle but then he's dragged out so I just think and Salah actually last season in City was probably the hardest I've ever seen him work he got back and he did defend but this season yesterday he didn't and then there's big gaps and there's holes and that's where you look open Canarte then has to go out as well I think he has been poor Canarte but he's out and Gravenberg's dropping in and that's where we've seen the second goal yesterday come from you're right Wayne The manager has to show authority on that.

12:10Or Salah has to be responsible and say, listen, and this part's where I was saying, with Van Dijk as captain as well, he should be telling Salah you can get him back in. I'm not saying to be fair, Sabah, I think it is a tactical thing in that it worked last season. But as you said, if you're not scoring the goals at one end and you're leaving your team exposed at the other, you're not basically getting nothing from this tactical ploy of allowing Moist Salah just to stay up top. so he's either got to come back or you've got to play somewhere else and that's why I said a few weeks ago the days of Mo Salah starting every week especially away from home have to stop but it probably would have been a very brave man not to play him at Manchester City yesterday on the back of what happened midweek but I think I always look more at the players me than a manager but I do think Liverpool the people behind the players and the manager they've tried to take a team of last season that won the league but in slot size he wanted it to be more sexy more goals more entertaining he's always speaking about Paris Saint-Germain he loves Pep you heard him speak about Pep before the game he's just his hero Pep so you know he's trying to move that team to more football and more goals and the league's moved that way so the league's gone powerful set pieces long throws almost like a throwback to the 2000s or the early next and Liverpool have been left behind and they've almost just got it wrong in terms of where the game's going and I think that's been a big problem for them but Gareth I wanted to ask you about Wirtz now I was worried about Wirtz early on because not because he wasn't amazing but I also think when you pay that much money for someone I just want to see a few glimpses of something that I think oh okay I know he's not the Bayer Leverkusen version yet that will come in a few months when he gets but I can see little things I've seen that was early on I've seen a few little things you know the back heel of Chelsea he played well against Real Madrid but my worry about Wirt is that when people are saying oh he's got to get used to his teammates and stuff like that he's actually played well in Europe but it's a different game to the Premier League so he's played really well I think away from home was it Frankfurt played really well against Real Madrid at home but he's found it really tough in the Premier League and I worry about him sort of going forward.

14:37I get it's early days, but I need to see something to keep me going that this, you know, will work. It's like Seba Ferran for us. When we bought Sebastian Ferran, who's I think twice the player of Ertes, really, he was great in Europe, but couldn't deal with the physicality. How was he twice the player of Ertes? Seba Ferran. He's a much better player than... Why? Is that not obvious? Why? Juan Sebastian Ferran. he's not better than Virts no but I mean in terms of his talent and his ability he's twice the player flowering Virts is and he struggled in the Premier League because of the physicality and stuff and I think that's what he's dealing with that's why he's good in Europe because there's a bit more space and everything I like Virts coming off the left what he's done in the last couple I know he hasn't scored but he's created a good number of chances which his teammates haven't taken and good chances as well so I think he'll be alright I do and players just take time to settle in to go from Leverkusen to Liverpool it's a big jump Liverpool's a massive club and I just think it's not going well for the whole group at Liverpool at the minute and when that happens and your new player and the money they've spent Isak very similar as well and there's going to be questions but I think you're behind me I agree with the thing on the left because I've been thinking about how he can get on the team he has to try and make it work it's not like he doesn't play but when you think of the Premier League there's always at least six players in the middle of the pitch, sometimes eight, you know, with full backs coming in and it's fast and it's quick and it's powerful and I actually think just being on the left, there's a little bit more space, a little pocket.

16:13I think of the Man City players of like David Silva, Bernardo Silva, those type of players, even though they're really creative, they didn't play in the number 10 position so much. It's more a little bit wide where the space is but I just, yeah, I agree with you on that. The thing about the chances, I keep seeing his top of the chances so I ask someone because the stats, because I'm thinking and when I'm watching the game I'm not actually seeing those chances a chance is when you pass the ball to someone and you have a shot so that shot can be from outside the box that shot can be from like do you know what I mean what I'm saying I get the Salah on a Chelsea I've seen him Galatasaray away Paul I think it was Eke TK clean through 1v1 he gives Sobbslayer it was another European game he gives Sobbslayer a chance against Real Madrid I know you're saying it's European games but still he just needs a goal he needs a goal and assist and to get confident.

17:04As a forward, when your confidence is low, it's not a good place to be. What are your thoughts on Liverpool going forward? You've just got to dig in, haven't you? With Vert, I find it incredibly frustrating seeing him in that false nine position later on in the game when we're trying to chase him. It just didn't work for me. We had no threat. There were a couple of balls flashed across the face and there's no one there. What I look at as a little bit of a way back is Three of the next four are at home, so that's good. Alisson's in goal, or supposed to be, for the next game at home against Nottingham Forest.

17:38I think that'll make a big difference. Marmadash feel he's done all right, saves a pen yesterday, but you notice the difference, the distribution, just the presence of Alisson. I think that will help. And I think it'll help, hopefully, fingers crossed, that we start to eventually see the best of Isak as well. He was obviously on the bench yesterday, not deemed fit enough to come on, hopefully by Forrest and by that run of games I'm talking about we start to get something out of him as well so that's me that's what I'm hopeful of but you've still got the test I think we've still got to see something from them away from home the next away I think is West Ham you should be doing something there

18:21Gareth I mentioned at the start when I mentioned there you had a little bite up the man on your right there from Manchester you had another little bite on social media I know the man from Manchester Roy Keane Oh yeah Yeah About his comments Around Liverpool supporters And the treatment of Trent You're a big Liverpool supporter Case for the defence? Yeah I mean He said didn't he That we needed to Sort of look at ourselves I don't think that's the case I think That game The atmosphere at Anfield Was everything I wanted it to be It was aggressive It was good We were right behind our team We were right against their team We booed every Real Madrid player Not just Trent But obviously special exception was kept for him.

18:59And I just think, what I said when I came back to that comment from Roy Keane was, from our point of view, Trent Alexander-Arnold led us up the garden path. You know, he didn't say anything on the speculation. I remember sort of last December, I think it was, it came out, it's done. He's definitely going. And then he's on the pitch for Liverpool Football Club doing this. And what does that mean? Well, I'll tell you how it was interpreted at the time. Fans took it to mean, he might stay, you know. he's saying the press is talking bollocks and he might stay at Liverpool so by doing that he was leading us up the garden path because we know that's the case because he turns up in Madrid speaking Spanish and so it was obviously a long term thing that he was going there so I think this idea that we have to sort of treat him with reverence and roll out the red carpet absolutely not I mean one of my worst ever times as a Liverpool fan was under Brendan Rodgers.

19:57We played Real Madrid at home and we did roll out the red carpet and I remember seeing people taking pictures of Ronaldo and stuff and I was like, what are you just doing? If you're at Anfield, you're meant to be supporting Liverpool. You're meant to be getting behind our boys and getting stuck into them, not taking pictures of them. Well, even I was getting asked for pictures at Anfield, didn't I? Was you, yeah? For fans. What's going on with football? Am I just Jimmy? I just go and watch Marine. I think it's a local lad he's obviously from West Arby and I think that's why it hurts Liverpool fans and I get it I get it but then we had Ronaldo who we all knew was going to Real Madrid at the end of the season so we knew that Nemanja Vintage was going to Inter Milan we knew that in January but I think just because it's the fact that it's a local lad and for any team seeing local lads come through and be successful is the best feeling in the world, isn't it?

20:57I don't blame him for going to Madrid, but I think there should have been some communication at some point. It used to come to me then, you're talking about Man United players, but obviously you moved on from Everton and the Everton supporters at that time were obviously going nuts to India. You're a young lad. Do you think it's a little bit similar in that? They wouldn't have reacted. Their reaction was because you were a localised, you were one of theirs. That's why Gareth reacts the way or Liverpool are supposed to do with Trent because you're one of ours you're not moving to Madrid and you're just Liverpool's a club that you move then move on so that's I think obviously me going to Man United is a bit different as well being a scouser but yeah you get booed when I went back to Goodison the fans booing me and whatever you've got to get on with it does it hurt it's the club I love it's a club my whole family is supporting so So it hurts from that point of view.

21:52But at the end of the day, listen, it's football. And I think players move on, players stay. And in time, I'm sure when Trent comes back, in time the fans will remember what he's done and how successfully he's been to the club. But at the minute, it's still quite raw. So I was expecting him to get booed. I think during the game, do what you want, pull him off. That's fine. I just think at the end, it might be nice. If he's gone and just had a little clap round and maybe get a few claps, but it's football. You can't take it too hard. You were at the Everton game with your lads, weren't you, the day-to-day.

22:30So in 20 years' time, Trent, would he be allowed to post a picture in the director's box in 20 years' time and a Liverpool win, get in? Well, I mean, you know, Torres left, didn't he? And we all hated the way he went from Liverpool. We all hated the fact that he went to Chelsea and he wasn't like them. The first time Liverpool played Chelsea after that, we all got stuck into him. I think I got elbowed him in the face and we were all made up, you know, and all that kind of stuff. He came back, didn't he, for one of those legend charity games and he got a good reception and I liked that because that's what you're talking about.

22:58I think there's been enough time and he was a great player for us. We loved watching him. We felt we had a connection with him. We had a great song for him, all the rest of it. And when he came back and he got that reception after some time had passed, I felt like that was the right thing. And so maybe one day, yeah, maybe we will welcome Trent back, but roar is the word from Rooney there, spot on. But I think the other thing as well is, I think he just needs to speak to his brother as well, tell his brother to come down. Yeah. Because that's not helping. Which one? I don't know which one, I don't know.

23:31But things like that, I fancy that. There's been some stuff on socials, hasn't there, over time, which hasn't been the best, it's fair to say. Wayne, you were at Anfield, I just want to mention it now, obviously we made a joke about the Van Dyke situation, but you've been a player, you're now a opponent, you've got to give your opinion. how did you feel about Van Dijk coming over and how it went about? I was happy coming over because I think obviously my job now is to give my opinions and I like to think I try and be straight and honest with my opinions on what I feel and what I see and I think I'm right and I said on my podcast the other day the one thing where maybe I went a bit too strong is when I said he's maybe down too old since he signs a new contract and that's a big statement to say.

24:18So I said on that, Mitchell, maybe I was wrong on that. But I think from a performance level, from what we've seen in Van Dijk, I don't think he's been at the level he has this season. And I questioned, I said, I'm sure as captain, he'd be speaking to players, he'd be taking players, taking the team out for food or whatever, which he said he has done. So clearly, if he's felt he's done that, he's had to do that, then there's something not right. and listen as champions you can't lose four games in a row if you lose one game there's questions if you lose four games in a row then there's something not right so I think getting involved too much in everything I'm erring from even Arnie Slotter the outside noise and okay that's what our job to do is focus on your game don't focus on because as a younger player be looking at Van Dijk and how he reacts to this and how's that going to help them so I just think you have to just take get on with your game and speak internally but you almost have to come together I actually I liked that I thought it was good television I think punditry has blew up hasn't it over the last sort of 10 years or so and probably even when we were playing yes there was pundits but it does feel like it's just on a completely different level now shows like this you know social media and I actually think me and you would have probably done what Van Dyke did as well I think I would have 100 % I would have you did worse on the radio didn't you I was the first I'm not as touchy as him but I wasn't as good as you if you look at what you're saying mate I had a hundred times worse than what I said about Van Dyke both on the pitch off the pitch so that's what I'm saying of course and there's people who talk and you take someone's opinion a bit more serious than other people but go and do your talk on the pitch.

26:22That's all you need to do. I've praised Van Dijk I don't know how many times about his performances and how good he's been but if you're champions and you're the captain of the Premier League champions and they're not performing as well and you know what I'm saying about I know if I was on the pitch and we used to do it with Ronaldo where Ronaldo wouldn't defend as much and we all work with it either. But if it's a tough game and you're playing against a top team, you screen out and get back in and help out. And that's what I'm saying about leadership. You need to understand what game you're in, what's the importance of the game and stuff and make sure if you're playing against a tough team, that's it.

27:03But I've got to decide for years, still do now. But what I'm saying is, I think when you've been a player and then you become a pundit, players sometimes take it personally and I totally get it because you do. It's just natural to human nature. But I thought it was good TV and I'd probably like to see more of it in the future. Oh no, I was pleased to come over here. Yeah. But then I just think... No, what I mean is, to be fair to him, what I would say is, if Van Dijk is getting upset about what you said, I don't think there's a footballer anywhere in the world in the last 10 years had more praise than Virgil Van Dijk.

27:38No, and deservedly so. He's been amazing. but he's had very little criticism if any but I don't think he sort of was disrespectful to you I think it was just a nice sort of but I think it'd be actually good in the future more players actually get involved and chat about different things or you know talk about the game be more tactical when Arnie Schlott come over I was talking to him about me and Arnie Schlott were a Calvin Harris together and I beat her that's maybe where Liverpool's problem started so Arnie Schlott I was talking to him but no, we've been talking about that and then Gary Logan had to cut in and take one on air.

28:13I needed to be there, what a night this sounds like. You were there with me, was I? I can't remember what state was I in.

28:31Right, Laura joins us as an Arsenal fan and it's your first time on the show so delighted to have you with us. I believe you're a big fan of the show. Yeah, I'm usually obviously on that side of things, but it's nice to see what it feels like being this side of the camera. Yeah, it was lovely. So, Laura, if you haven't seen her, put a nice post on social media about the show and how it works behind the scenes. So glad to give you the real rundown. But we've had a few Arsenal fans on, so I just wanted to ask you one question. Not too difficult. If you're an Arsenal fan and you want to come on the show and you want to stay, OK?

29:09God. Can you remember the Tony Adams goal against Everton? I mean, when I spoke to the producer about this, I said, I'm not coming on if you give me a quiz because people take no prisoners. But yes, I do remember it, even though I was born. That'll do. That'll do, Laura. You're in. Right. Arsenal, Wayne, you said before, and I think most people here would agree, have been the best team in the league this season. Disappointing result, probably. the way it happened away at Sunderland and watching the game yesterday in City's performance, are you worried as an Arsenal fan? No, no, no, we're fine.

29:47Absolutely fine. No, I'm worried. I'm worried. But I don't think it changes anything. I don't think the result yesterday changes anything in terms of what Arsenal need to do to win the title. It's obviously very, very early days and the lead is, I think, what, four points now? That's very slim. So the idea that Arsenal were going to run away with it is absolute madness. We know how good City are, but at the end of the day, I don't think it changes anything that Arsenal need to do. They need to basically hold City at bay, not worry about what City are doing because I think that's a distraction.

30:18They just need to do what they do best, which is win continuously. I think the Sunderland result is unfortunate. I don't think the manner of the game concerns me that much. I think Arsenal were very good in the second half, but fair play to Sunderland. They absolutely came at us in the first half. Really disappointing how it ended. I threw my pillow at the TV. I was so angry. But that's a kind of small margin. I think the way that Arsenal played in the second half, it shows what they're capable of. And we have lots of players to come back. So it's annoying, the timing of it, because we go into international break and the narrative sort of switched a little bit.

30:51But Arsenal just need to do what they've been doing for the past 10 games. And I think they'll be OK. But didn't love it yesterday. Sorry, Lauren. Do you know when you were watching that game yesterday, I was thinking sort of going into the game, as I was from Liverpool, Liverpool hat on thinking okay if Liverpool could win there'd be so many points behind what was would you have rather Liverpool or City won yesterday I know you wanted a draw but I was thinking from Arsenal's point of view the City situation about them coming back twice before would that be in the back of your mind because it's happened twice before because City are now a lot closer to you I think the manner of how dominant City were yesterday was the biggest concern I think obviously we wanted a draw then possibly a Liverpool win, but for City to basically steamroll Liverpool and essentially throw down a bit of a gauntlet to say we are here, we are back, not that they've really been anywhere but ultimately it was a bit of a nightmare to be honest and I think it will just remind everyone that City are in a position that if Arsenal slip up, they're there to capitalise, which might not have been the case a couple of weeks ago but now it's very much a, you know, you slip up they're there.

32:01You said before and I mentioned it before, the There's so long to go. And you said you've just got to concentrate on your own job. How important is the atmosphere at the Emirates in March, April, May, if that situation with City or another team, Chelsea aren't a million miles away from you. I don't think Liverpool have got a chance to win. United on as well. Oh, United on as well. We'll get to Adam in a bit. But how important is Arsenal and the stadium? There's been talk about the atmosphere getting better and trying to improve things. at the stadium. How important is that stadium going to be in the second half of the season?

32:38It's a tricky one because I think as we get closer to the end of the season, the nerves come in and the Emirates can turn very quickly. Often, like 20 minutes in, you often feel like Arsenal are on top. This has been the case for a couple of seasons where there'll be a pass that goes astray and you just feel it turn from happiness, we're definitely going to win, to expectation. I think a lot has been made about the Emirates atmosphere over the past couple of years. Personally, I don't really buy it. I think it's just confirmation bias that everyone goes, it's quiet here. And everyone then goes, okay, it's quiet.

33:12I sit next to the press box. So I have the exact same view as some of the journalists. Some of it, I'm just like, that's just, that's not correct. Yes, I think it is a little bit more nervy this year, but that's just because we are expecting to win. And also a lot of atmosphere comes from like the presence of jeopardy. I think a lot of teams come to the Emirates now and they don't get a sniff. And that's not, you know, that's not because they're bad. It's just because Arsenal are so good, so in control. Does that make for a ferocious atmosphere? Maybe not. But I think the club are doing what they can to help.

33:43But I, as I said, the Emirates can be quite touchy and it can turn quite quickly. So if it comes down to that sort of March, April, where it's getting very, very tight, I'm a little bit nervous about what that would look like. But for me, the atmosphere at the Emirates is just, people love to talk about it. I go there every week. I've been to lots of grey grounds I don't think it's that quieter than any other ground really It depends how you play as well I used to find that at City as well where if you're passing and it's going from side to side a lot naturally if you have a team who get the ball out wide and put crosses in the box and sustain the tax and it's aggressive then that brings the fans up that creates an atmosphere where if it's a bit slower which Arsenal I think are at times where they're keeping possession that's because teams are sat back then that can bring a bit out of the atmosphere as well.

34:32Luke, we always talk about Manchester City around atmosphere. Wayne's just mentioned it, but the game's late, isn't it? I think it's late 20th of April or something like that. You've been there before, haven't you, when Arsenal have come late in the season? Well, they didn't turn up last time. I think it was three and a half, about half-time or something. Yeah, I feel the atmosphere at City yesterday was classed, to be fair. I know you were trying to go in the away end as well midweek. I don't know if that one... Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. See my tweet? Yeah. Oh, we stopped them going in. Yeah, I'm not sure.

35:02Should have been made up. They could have had a full house for once. I mean, I'm just glad City are winning and no one's talking about the on-field stuff anymore. I know we're winning when that's going on. But, yeah, I think we went to Arsenal and got a point. Maybe we weren't in as much form back then. And I know they got a late equalised, but I think they'll definitely be thinking back to a few seasons ago. I mean, they might try and actually win this time if they can win players as well. I think if you forget as well, it's probably 10 games in. Yeah. It's a long way to go. Yeah. And then I think when you start getting into January and then the league probably took its shape and you know which teams are going to finish roughly, then that's when I think it could be a bit nervous for Arsenal.

35:47We have a lot of players to come back, though. Obviously, injuries being a kind of theme that we had last year, but we have Havertz, Odegaard, Madueke, Jesus, if he ever plays for us again. But that could cause problems as well. 100%. I think it's similar to Liverpool when you sign too many players and you've got players who are getting left on the bench who normally would be playing. That could cause problems as well in the dressing room. So I don't think it's always a good thing to have everyone. If you've got such a good squad, it's actually sometimes, probably for the manager, it's quite refreshing to have them out.

36:19But I think the result of the weekend, the two-all draw, for me that just looked like a very tired team. Like that last five minutes or so, for me that wasn't a, one, respect Sunderland for continuously putting the balls in the boxes and recognise that we're tired. But if we've got those subs on the bench, I'm sure we would have brought them on. That for me was just a tired team and the international break is coming back, it's coming at the right time for Arsenal. So I think it will be a problem, but ultimately the reason we've got that squad depth is for games like the Sunderland game so that you can bring the players on and they can ultimately get us over the line, which we couldn't do at the weekend.

36:49Laura, I couldn't help but notice yesterday even though it was City and you'll know this there's this sort of feeling online I think even like a few Liverpool fans and United fans wouldn't probably mind if it was City to win the league and maybe not Arsenal do you feel that yourself or do Arsenal feel this or is that like is there us against the world where people are sort of like I want Arsenal to win us this year you want Arsenal to win obviously if United or Everton can't I'd prefer Arsenal than City or Liverpool I'm the same Arsenal or Chelsea if it's not United So you So yeah So we do Because obviously Liverpool would be 21 you don't want that happening you don't want them to win the league anyway City obviously it's a bit easier to take because it doesn't feel real sometimes but you know what I mean but at the same time I'd rather Arsenal did it it's only their fans on social media that you have to avoid once it's outside of that I think it's better for football.

37:50That's why we've got a gap between us. That's that over here. All right, we mentioned the atmosphere and this one's just probably been a question through it, I think just to wind everyone up. What club stands out in terms of consistent bad atmosphere at their ground? Anyone with the goal music. Yeah. That's horrendous. But bad atmosphere. I'll probably pick out Wolves at the moment. The atmosphere is awful. I think ever since COVID, under noon, it was unbelievable. but at the moment yeah it's awful West Ham I'd say as well has been bad for ages ours hasn't been great Spurs hasn't been great especially this season our home form yeah that was my my concern over Everton with the new stadium was how do you create that atmosphere and that was the first game we went to on Saturday and the atmosphere was really good I went to yeah it was decent but what you just said there Ben I went to the atmosphere is funny at Tottenham isn't it because you're doing alright you're getting good results but well not at home we've won in terms of the league where you're on the team Frank's made a decent start when you look at the numbers but when I said at home the results you're right but there was a really bad feeling in there after that Chelsea game Chelsea game yeah yeah I think it was the manner of the performance as much as anything because we've kind of been we've almost just got used to not turning up in those kind of games I think we've had one win against Chelsea since that stadium has opened and we had a bad record against them for a while which kind of turned around but I think it was just like we can accept getting beat considering where we're at we're still in kind of a bit of a transitional phase by good teams that come to us but you can't really accept getting beat in the way that we did creating 0.05 XG or whatever it was and not laying a glove on Chelsea and kind of getting bullied like that This XG is low Yeah, I mean It just shows we're not creating any quality chances really at all You have owners coming in who want the XG to be like 2.5 or 3 every game and stuff and then the players are getting told not to shoot from the edge of the box because the XG is not high enough and it doesn't get you better opportunities.

39:49Of course, if you can get in the box and tap in, you can, but it's taken a lot out of the game. That's where it gets a bit ridiculous now because it's like, especially with teams sitting a little bit deeper in the Premier League and being worried about set-piece and long throws, if you take shots from distance, short with Gonzalez yesterday, teams sat that kind of deep, could take a nick off Van Dijk and goes in. You want teams to kind of do that more, I suppose. So I do get that. You said Van Gaal told you he stopped shooting, didn't he? Outside the box. Was that something that happened at Man United with him?

40:16Well, it weren't so much talking about XG, but he just thought he'd have a better chance passing it into the goal, which you do at certain positions. But, you know, I want to see, you know, with Steven Gerrard getting out of the edge of the box and shooting Paul Scholes. You miss them types of goals, and it's too... Everything needs to be perfect now. I think Arsenal used to have it under Wenger, where they say, you know, time pass the ball into the net. You want players shooting and, you know, tackles going in, crosses going in the box, and now it's just everything's trying to be too nice and perfect.

40:46It was like that Caicedo goal against Liverpool was a bit of a throwback, wasn't it? Where he kind of drops his shoulder and then just smacks it. But Thomas Frank was actually one of the managers. He did a piece, I think, for Sky last season where he said, I actually don't like my players shooting from outside the box for those exact reasons. It's like a low XG chance. Sometimes you just want someone to have a dig. You're right, because the game, they scored one from outside the box. I think it was a way of Fulham for Brentford. Remember doing the game? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Literally like the week after or something, you said it.

41:08But, right, I want to go to you. North London Derby I think after the international break yeah how are you feeling about that have Sunderland given you a little bit of hope well I mean our away form we're top of the league away from home we're relegation form at home actually so I'm glad it's kind of this way around actually and there's maybe not as much pressure or expectation on us to go there and get a result like Arsenal we're in a much better place than we are right now but with the way that we set up away from home had a really good performance in the Super Cup where we were under a lot of pressure against PSG Man City away we kind of come and did a number on you as well earlier in the season So you have a little bit more faith in the way that we set up away from home, but still missing kind of big characters, big sort of personalities from that team, kind of going into that game as well.

41:49So you just get so used to you losing there as well. We've only won once there in the Premier League era, won once there in the Cup as well, and Arsenal were as good as they've ever been in my lifetime, really. So it's going to be really difficult, obviously. But I'm kind of glad the fixture's away, given the way that we've played away from home. How are you feeling about us? because I know for Tottenham supporters, there's a feeling with everybody that Arsenal are probably going to win the league this season. So that must be a real killer. Because that's the one thing you've been able to hang on to, hasn't it, for the last 20 years since they won the league.

42:19Yeah. They haven't been the top dogs. Four points ain't a lot, though, is it? Doesn't sound like a lot to me. But I'm saying so. Does it give you a little bit of... Yeah, a little bit. Yesterday was good. It's kind of Pep's reeled me back in a little bit. But yeah, of course you're worried about Arsenal. it's like you've kind of brought up as a Spurs fan to hate Arsenal as much as you love Tottenham and that will never change it's like you sometimes say things about Arsenal and the fact that you want City to win the league like we always got we got a lot of stick for that game a few years ago where we lost at home to Man City that handed them the title and Arsenal lost it it's like I don't think you were a proper Spurs fan if you actually wanted us to win that day like it's like you have to I think that's when Ange first started losing the fans yeah just yeah a little bit and it's like I get comments sometimes from Arsenal fans saying oh are you so obsessed with us losing Man City to win the league it's like if the shoe was on the other foot you'd be in exactly the same position I remember going into the Champions League fight when we were in it it was the same you were wearing a United shirt in like 2019 I remember when Jamie Redknapp scored what was going on?

43:15and Liverpool beat Blackburn yeah who did you want to win? I was an Everton fan no but do you know what I mean? so I yeah yeah no no listen I get that I remember I was commentating on that game that you were talking about and I said exactly what you said before the game and when I saw Rangers' comments I'm like oh he doesn't get this I remember when he was at Celtic as well with the kind of how fierce that rivalry is with Rangers I was like you can't want your rival to win you can't go on the pitch and not try no no I'm talking as a set of supporters he was getting frustrated with the supporters not the players the players obviously tried to I think he kind of held his hands up after and sort of like I might have got that one wrong but speaking of atmosphere that was the weirdest atmosphere in the ground I was on the way to the game speaking to Tottenham fans and some of them were like obviously we want to win and some were like oh we don't care I know I'm here type thing so yeah I am an honorary City fan again this year for the title it was like in 99 when Les Ferdinand put you 1-0 up and you were away and just based on oh Arsenal were in the league and obviously we turned it around but it was quite funny watching that

44:24Hello and welcome back to our new game show called Shot on Target brought to you by Skybet Wayne Rooney joins me today alongside our fans. Hello. And here's how the game is going to work. It's me versus the fans. So, Wayne, there's a wheel here beside you. You're going to spin the wheel. Give it a spin, Wayne.

44:49And whatever number it lands on, we need to provide a player that has made the closest amount of men's England caps to that said number. then the fans will also pick a player Adam, where's Adam? Here I am Adam's there, you're the captain because Man United are on such a good run you're the captain I don't even watch England that much Right, what number are we on? 60 60, oh go on OK, so it does first Oh you've gone straight in Nah, nah, I'm thinking 60 England caps

45:25Phil Neville

45:30You know what?

45:34No, I'm going to... You've just said a name to me, right? I know a player who's got 59. I'm going to go with that. Go with it then? Is that you? No. Should have been. I'm going to go Des Walker, because I know he's got 59 caps. It's cheating, man. No, just come to me then. It's a mystery weapon if we get a chance. Go on. I'm the worst captain for this. You've got to get bang on 60 or you've lost. Or it's 1-0. Or 61 and it's a draw. Go above your list. Go who? Does anyone watch England? I don't watch England. Go on, Corral. Do you reckon Rice is around that? Corral, if you don't get this right, you're coming to the stage.

46:20I love you now. I don't know, like Joel Fowler. Yeah, no, like... Stones? Walcott? John Thames? Nah, I think he's got more. He's played about 60 games a season now. Yeah, true. We'll have to push it for time. I think he's like six. Come on, 30 seconds. Joel Cole. Oh, decent answer. I'm looking. Des Walker's got 59, yeah? Don't need to check that. I hope you're wrong on that. It'd be so good. It's very close. But yeah, Des Walker 59, Joel Cole 56. Hooray! That's a good shot. 1-0. Great shot, done. Right, so what, is it the first of three, is it? Yeah, best out of three. Best out of three. If we get the next one, it'll be the first of three.

47:02That's how we're doing. Go on, go again. Yeah, come on, come on, come on. We need five. Oh, it could... Nah. Oh, nah. Oh, we're not even getting five. Oh, no! Come back around. Oh. Oh! Ten. That's five, that. Five. Can we go first or something? I've got someone with four. No, I think it's just five. That's ten, that. That's ten, that. That's ten, that. That's ten, that. I haven't had five. The arrows... It's an absolutely guarantee that it's five. Does it matter? It does matter, because we've got someone who's got ten. We've got somebody who's got ten. Yeah, yeah, we've got 30 as well. It is definitely five.

47:43The middle bit of the arrows on... The points and the blue. I've got someone with four. I've got someone with not. All right, it's me. You know what it's like? It's like when that ball went out at Newcastle. It's just like that, yeah. It's just exactly the same, yeah. There's consequences. Who do you want? Do you want 10 or 5? 10. Go on. Connor Cody. How much are? 5. Is it 10? We can't do all that in the league. No, no. We actually can't do all that in the league. You're wrong on this, by the way. Wrong and strong. The one I'm thinking is, I think Danny Mayfey got 11 or 12.

48:24I'm just looking at his reaction.

48:29You were so strong with Connor Cody. The pressure's on me. Do you want to go Murphy? But if he's a Wolves fan, he must know exactly what Connor Cody's got. Was it exactly 10 you went for? I think he's got bang on 10, yeah. You think? Should have went 5. Can we check if that's 5 or 10? That was a 5, honestly. That is a five. Cheers. All right, you've gone Conor Cody. After Russia. OK. We're not at a time. Three. All right, he's gone.

49:05Listen, if he's got ten, we can't beat her anyway, can we? Do you want to go with Danny Murphy? I'll go Danny Murphy. It's incredibly close. You say that on every answer. This one is closer. Danny Murphy had nine, where Conor Cody had ten. Yeah! I thought Danny had more than that, actually, but... Oh, that was a good effort, that. Good effort, very good effort. Did you actually know, Ian? No, it's good to be. Don't, for the last, to be honest. Come on, it's all on this one. It's all on this. 30, please. Please drop on 30.

49:39Yes! Oh, God, he couldn't stand it. Oh, 100. Oh! 1-10. 1-10. 1-10. 1-10? It was, it was 1-10. 1-10. 1-15. I've got a 104. I've got a 105. Go Gerrard. I've got a 114. Are they going to go first this time? Yeah, it'll be them first. Because he'll probably go Gerrard, will he? Would Ashley Poe be closer? Would he be closer to 110? Yeah, maybe one... Is that one? Gerrard played for a bit longer. Gerrard's 104. That's what I was thinking. He might be closer to 110. Defer's got 100. Or like a cow walker? Cain will have over a hand. Ooh, Cain. Cain, I think. 105? Cain will definitely have over a ton.

50:24How many goals is your time in Cain? Yeah, it's got, it's like 60 seconds now, isn't it? It's got to be 70 goals. He's going to have about one or two. Yeah. It's not a bad shot. He might be too high, though. Then first, I think he's too high. I reckon it's in between. No, because you got the light. No, you go first. You're taking it in turns. Don't let him bully you. I don't think. He's time-wasting. I'm trying to get really... I should call a Carl Walker. It would be the one. It's safe. Steven Gerrard. I think he's got 100, mate. Steven Gerrard. Yeah, OK. I'll lock that in. I had a 105, but that's close.

51:07What was Beckham? What was a 105? Harry Kane. Ashley Cole! All right, I'm going to have to rush your fans, sorry. Captain. Adam. Make the decision. The only one... Definitely on that amount. Yeah, 1-1-4. Harry Kane. Do you want to lock that in? Is he over London, are you? Right, we're locked in. It's close again. Those are incredibly close. Steven Gerrard, 1-1-4. Harry Kane, 110. Yeah!

51:43Get him, then. That's a big pick. It made sense. I know you're in good luck. What was that, Nicole? Oh, look. What a shout.

51:55107. 107. I didn't know that. I was just crying. Bobby Moore did 108 as well. We wanted 30. We wanted 30. Who was 30? Alfred Strange.

52:11Exactly. That was it, yeah. The fans win. So the fans win The Wheel of Fortune Or shot on target We should say Well done

52:29Whatever the game You'll find it here On the overlap Have you ever dunked A custard cream In an English breakfast You were milking I don't know Have I ever done that Why have they got leaf flowers That is him It's Mike said Fred In the front Big cold Big Fred Unbelievable. Gary Neville, grow a proper muzzy or shave it off your scruff.

52:53You just said 4-3-3 before that. Ça va! We're going to start Andrew on two and a half.

53:03Can't wait.

53:08Dad's waited 18 years to shave that no.

53:13It's Nicky Butt, Teddy Shering and Roy Keane Hang gliding over Hotel Paul It's all that I was talking to Liam and Messi Sia, why did you not push him down the stairs?

53:26Give him what he wants! Give him what he wants!

53:39Another debut for Carol. Welcome to the stage. You've absolutely taken over social media in these last few months. Brilliant what you've done. And talk to me about your beloved Chelsea. Can Chelsea win the league this season? I mean, a few more wins and we'll be putting another phantom title race like we were last season. But no, I don't think we'll win it. I'd like us to, but I don't think we have the squad to do it just yet, which is obviously sounds insane to say with the amount of money that we spent. But the team, I think it's a bit too young. A couple, give us a season or two to get there.

54:16Hopefully the owners can go and buy someone over the age of 18 for once and we might be able to push. But yeah, I mean, I like where we are right now. A few points off the top, was it six points I think off Arsenal? so as long as everyone's keeping a bit of pressure on them to hopefully make them fall away I'm okay with that at the moment Okay, I want to ask you where the idea comes from about what you do on social media how it started, how it got up and running What was the big Bullshit on your podcast What was it?

54:52All you're bullshitting on your podcast Go on then And by the way, have we been pulled up yet? Yeah. Have you been pulled up? Have you not got your... Yeah, I've seen my own, was it the Portsmouth game? Yeah, yeah, that was yours. But I think ones like that, I generally thought I was right on it. But I've seen the Bobby Zamora one, the other day when he said he played in Sweden, when Zlatan scored over a kick. He wasn't even in the squad.

55:24I've got you as well, Jamie, for saying that you weren't teammates with Michael, even though you played for England together. You even came on at the same time against Spain and you said that you'd never played. Yeah, but I thought the point of your podcast was someone boasting. That's definitely not boasting. No, it's a bit. I was boasting. And yeah, either making things up or sometimes getting things wildly wrong. But I don't know. One day I was just scrolling through and I watch a lot of podcasts including this one. It's just like you get to a point where you've heard enough stories that you think aren't true.

55:54And I just went, right, let me see if I can fact check it what it looks like and people took to it so we just kept it going but it's been and where did the HMRC come to the stage I mean is someone is that just an idea if someone comes to you with that the HMRC thing was like I think it was after like three or four episodes I was like I felt like I was regulating the podcast so I said oh I might as well be the HMRC of podcast and then like people were commenting so we just ran with it saying we've come to the stage and rolled the tapes and all that stuff so you know what I love what you've done as well because I think a lot of people have gone, this guy's amazing, he's fantastic, and I hope he doesn't come for me.

56:32Then he's gone for them and got them. What's your best one that you've got? What do you think? Oh, Lee Clark, surely. No, the John Terry one when he was like 13. Oh, Colin Palmer? Yeah. Everyone's got their own favourites. I think they're my two favourites, though. Lee Clark. Claridge. Claridge. The racehorse. That was fascinating. I feel like everyone's got their own favourites. I mean, for me, it's... Sounds like a big part

57:23Do you know what it is? I think Dean Saunders tells a few on Talksport I listen to him and I think that can't be happening have you already got him he's been suggested a few times I need to I need to look into him what Dean Saunders has come up a few times yeah no I think something like Gabby Abonno or something I don't know seems like there's a theme here around Talksport when you think of the probably older players the after dinner speaking I suppose if you didn't just do podcasts and you went and watched a few people after dinner speaking. I think there's probably, there's definitely a few bevvies through and a few stories there, isn't there?

58:00I think especially with lads who were older as well, you can get a few little things wrong because you're getting a bit older and you're trying to think back. But when you're getting like major things, like the Zamora one blew my mind where you weren't even in the squad. Yeah. But is it the fact that they're forgetting stuff or is it because they played before social media so they feel like they can tell those stories in those back rooms. Yeah, but... Because now they're going on podcasts and they're in public. He was on the pitch when Zlatan scored over a kick, which is iconic. You know if you're on the pitch, you're not.

58:35100%. Well, listen, he's at Chelsea, man. I wanted to ask you about Mureska. I'm a fan of Mureska. You know, the way he sets his teams and everything, he's really good tactically. But I'm just looking at this stat here, Wayne. Mureska has made 93 changes in 17 games this season in all-com. would you have liked that as a player or you know in the squad I said this last week didn't I I just think it's crazy and if I was in the squad I think he might come out and reply to what I said on it I haven't heard well he has but I don't know what he said but everyone's coming back at you aren't they I know I'm not bothered no but I think if the best teams historically don't make that many changes and you have your back four in place, your midfield players.

59:25Normally the players who change is the wide players. So to make that many changes, if I was in that dressing room and I said this is what I said, which he replied to is, I'd be sitting down with some of the senior players and I'd be saying, this can't keep happening. You need a steady squad, you need to sparring your team in there if they fit. So I think making that amount of changes is confusing for the players. I think they don't know who the best team is. and you're not getting a run of games to consistently you know if you're playing with a centre-back you want to play with them all the time you don't want it to keep changing and then having to form different relationships and chemistry on the pitch so I just think if you want to be I know they won the two trophies last season but if you want to win and consistently win top trophies then you need to be consistent with your team You know what I think the problem with Chelsea is I think they've obviously they buy a lot of players they've got a big squad but a lot of the players are the same I don't think there's sort of like do you understand what I mean it feels like every wing is the same when they swap them so I think when you're a manager you've got the options and it's not like one's like a superstar and the other one's just okay so you're always going to pick the main one I feel like a lot of the players there's not that much difference if you're you know the front three you could have a different front three and it wouldn't completely change the sort of level of the team yeah no I think and some managers say it don't they prefer less players to choose from and normally you're looking at 15 players really if fit that's going to be your starting 11 that's going to be your subs who come on normally you know what changes are going to happen so I think when you've got such a big squad and players wanting to play players playing well and coming out of the team I just don't think it's healthy for the players and I don't think it's sustainable to be able to win trophies I think with that though if you look at it some of those changes are from are unfortunately bad disciplinary records.

1:01:22So we had quite a few red cards this season. You look at players like Rhys James, Lavio, who can't play week in, week out with their fitness issues at the moment. So they're always getting rotated. And I agree with Jamie in terms of the front three for the most part. They are all of a similar age and maybe a similar ability at the moment. So keeping them fresh or trying a different player if they've gone two or three games without scoring or contributing as much, I don't think it's a major issue when we look at how the team's been rotated I think especially when you're trying to compensate for losing a Levi Colwell and a Cole Palmer who were instrumental for us last season you're going to, especially in the early part of the season try and find that best 11 because we went into the season thinking we'd have a Cole Palmer we'd have a partner for Kaiseido consistently for all fixtures but we're still figuring out and we're only like I say six points off the top so it's not too bad And Arsenal to come after the international break.

1:02:18I'm ready. I need that Arsenal win. I've not had it in a while, but I need it. And if it helps City, you know what I mean. OK, Livy, Bournemouth fan, welcome back. Obviously, you've had a brilliant start to the season. Just tailed off a little bit before the international break. Is there still hope and belief that there could be European football next season? Yeah, I think so. I mean, Bournemouth fans, we manage our expectations. We're used to having to do that, But we're just enjoying the really, really good performances and the success at the moment. And I think this season is as good a chance as any.

1:02:53You know what? You've got fifth place down tonight for all on 18 points. So it's really tight. I think the hope is that the only doubt is, you know, last season we started singing we're on our way to Barcelona and then we went on a really bad run. So, you know, there's a little bit of caution there, I guess. Well, Livy, who this season have you been impressed with in the team? Because obviously your squad was raided, the team was raided last in the summer, I should say. And they've obviously brought new players in. It doesn't look like anything's changed. Who's been the real standout for you? So I think it's a mixture actually of existing and new.

1:03:27So Kruppi has come in, 19-year-old. And we were lacking a little bit of clinicality in front of goal. And he's come and he's scored, what, four goals in two starts? That's an amazing word. I've never heard that word before. Is that a word? Clinicality? Clinicality is now. Is it? It's amazing. Coming to Monday Night Football. Clinicality, brilliant. Yeah, and so he's really impressed. I want him to start a bit more. I was a little bit surprised he didn't start yesterday. We brought Ever back in. To be fair, Ever was probably one of our best players yesterday. But, yeah, so I've been really impressed with Kruppi.

1:04:02You've got the stalwarts like Marcus Sanessi, who's been in and out. He's been injured. and he lost out to Houston last season, but he's really adaptable. He's come back in seamlessly and he's partnered with lots of different centre-backs and he seems to just be a real steady sort of at the back there for us. And people like Tyler Adams, again, really, really tough in midfield. Like he worked really, really hard, causes the opposition problems. And so I think it's that mix. I also really love Adrian Truffaut. I think nobody had the best game against Ville yesterday. Nobody covered themselves in glory yesterday.

1:04:41But up until that point, he's still young. He's only, what, 22, 23? And he just looks really composed and mature over at left back. Slightly different to Kerkers. He's playing a bit deeper. He's releasing the ball a bit quicker. But he's allowing the likes of Semenyo, who obviously has played amazingly so far this season, just to do his thing. So I think, yeah, it's that really nice mix of old and new. And speaking about Semenyo, I mean, what, is he nine goal involvements so far this season? Shame he missed the pen yesterday. But I mean, Emi Martinez is an amazing goalkeeper, isn't he? But Semenyo is unpredictable.

1:05:21And I think that is what is so great about him and what oppositions struggle to deal with. He says himself, I like to freestyle. I want to do the unexpected. I want to do what they don't think I'm going to do. two-footed, scores goals, runs at opposition. So I think we've got a real nice alchemy there this season. Final question, I just want to ask you about Alex Scott getting in the England squad. What should Thomas Tuchel and the England players expect this week in training? I think he's tenacious, Alex, in midfield. He spots opportunities, he spots the passes, he works really, really hard. I get the sense listening to Tuchel and other people talk about it that is great character to have around the squad so I think yeah he's just a real positive adaptable versatile player I'm looking forward to seeing him take his opportunity hopefully

1:06:19Adam right we've got way in here so let's get into it right big man United chat we have to on this podcast this part of the contract Gary Neville made me sign five unbeaten in the league with three wins Amaran, Manager of the Month and Bermot, Player of the Month where are we at right now? It's been nice to feel a little bit settled and not panicking about whether the manager is going to get sacked in a week or two or not obviously the football has improved I think we're still conceding far too many goals but I've been pleased mostly with our resilience over the last five games, there's been periods in the Liverpool game for example when you equalised, I thought uh oh they're going to go and get the win and then we managed to dig in and then go and get the victory ourselves.

1:07:02I thought Brighton as well. I think last season against Brighton, if we go 3-2 from being 3-0 up, we probably crumble a little bit. But again, we went on and got the goal to make it 4-2. And similarly against Spurs, down to 10 men, they go 2-1 ahead and we managed to get a draw. But I was a bit disappointed with the Spurs game because it felt like in the second half, I thought if we showed a little bit more going forward, there were goals there to be got for us. And we kind of sat back a little bit and tried to hold on to a 1-0 win that obviously didn't come. and then if Spurs get an equaliser, their crowd get up for it, which happened, and obviously we didn't expect Cesc to go off, then it's obviously a difficult game to be in.

1:07:39So I thought maybe we've dropped four points in those two games from winning positions that we probably shouldn't have against Forrest as well. But generally it's just good to feel a little bit settled, going into every game, feeling like there's a team that can dig in, fight, and are playing a little bit better to the manager's system. I also think he's changed it a bit. We've probably gone a little bit more direct than usual. I thought I think Brian Mboumo has been incredible he's better than I thought he was obviously he was great for Brentford but he's better than I thought he was Cunha's been great despite I think he's only got one goal for us but I think his all-round performance he was fantastic at Anfield as well in terms of taking the pressure off wasting a bit of time I thought Gary Neville had a shocker on Sesco he kind of digged him out a little bit and I think there's plenty more to come from Sesco but one of the things he mentioned was his link-up play and his ability to link up with Cunha and Mboumo but I think that's been the best thing about him when he's played.

1:08:30One of the things that Rasmus Hojland didn't offer us was a back-to-goal player, someone that could bring the ball in and join up with the other players, and I think he has done that. But we've still got those issues in the midfield. Casemiro can't play more than 60 minutes a game. I still hate the fact that Kabimeno isn't in this team. I feel like he's the kind of player we have to have in the side. But generally, it's good to feel good about Manchester United again, although we've got Crystal Palace next, which is a difficult game. Do you feel, is the feeling good just because the feeling's not bad?

1:09:01What I'm trying to say is, what you've seen in the last few weeks, and we've all been there as supporters, where your club's on a bad run. It was like this a few weeks ago for Liverpool. You're just happy when you win a game. Forget how you won it. It's just like, ugh, you feel good. Is it because you're getting results, or do you actually see something with the manager, the way the team are playing, that you think, actually, the bigger picture, this could work, this could move forward. Is it just, ugh? I think a little bit of both. obviously we were starved of consistent results. We didn't win back-to-back games for a long time and then you beat Sunderland, you get a few wins, you go to Anfield and win, which we hadn't done.

1:09:33I think it was like since you scored there, 2016, 17, I think it would have been 10 years if we hadn't had won there. So just getting those kind of wins feels nice. But I also think there has seemed to be a penny drop with this team. There's still areas we can improve, like the midfield, but it does feel like the team is getting the manager's system a little bit more. I think it's when you look what's happened at Man Utd over the last 10 years for some of them players when we're talking about Liverpool players and Van Dijk in particular coming out the players have been battered absolutely battered for the last few years so now they've got a couple of results and you can see Constance coming back and the manager as well he's needed them results for himself to you know get over obviously we haven't won two games back to back whatever so I think you can see a bit more confidence what I think is on Saturday there was a time where they were in second place and I still think the players need to be ready for that and be used to that because as you said I think they thought right we win this game we're in second place and then they go a bit cautious and think oh we need to not concede where actually you can go and get another goal and win the game but I think they're gradually getting better gradually improving I think the managers next game or the date, November 24th, is the Wayne Rooney derby.

1:10:57The Wayne Rooney derby is Man United v Everton, isn't it? Man United's next game. A year in, so where are you at right now? The question I ask to Adam, are you just happy United are winning or do you actually see something going forward? Do you actually think, OK, it's been a really tough first year, but things are starting to improve. They're just getting good results. It's been really tough for anyone connected with the club, what's been going on. and I was critical of Amaran a few weeks back because emotionally you want them to do well and you can boil over a little bit but I think we are seeing them improve I think players are getting to know each other a bit better as well, the new players coming into the team I still would like to see Bruno a bit further up the pitch I think what he can give you further up the pitch is far greater than what he can a bit deeper so I'd like to see that and I think January will be interesting to see if they can get players to come and help them have that little push to try and get into Europe or the top four top five well I don't even know where it is now Champions League top six is it for top five so but yeah no I think gradually we're starting to see better signs which you have to you have to be realistic and say are they going to win the league no they're not can you possibly sneak into the top four or five and keep yourself in the round at the end of the season.

1:12:23But I think we're glad to see an improvement. I think the signings and the Ineos have been critical of a lot of their decisions that they've made, especially ticket pricing and things like that. But you look at De Ligt, he looks like a leader for us. I think he's been excellent at the back. Lenny Yorl was fantastic. And you're seeing their transfer policy pay off a little bit as well. I think bringing the lads they did bring in in the summer, whilst we would have liked a little bit more, the signings have worked and we're not wasting as much money in terms of transfer fees anymore. The recruitment before that was horrendous, wasn't it?

1:12:54Yeah, it was shambolic. The players, they were just bringing names in and you look at Lukaku, Zlatan, good players, but they were just bringing Pogba, coming back, whatever. They were just bringing names in and spending enormous amounts of money, which, you know, it's going to take a bit of time to actually get over their mistakes. You said Gary Neville had had a shocker. That was his comment. I feel like he tries to be... Don't backtrack now. No, no, I'm not. I'm about to say more. He's got the receipts. I feel like he tries to be so unbiased that he goes too far the other way and he just ends up saying crazy things.

1:13:27You know what? I get that off Liverpool fans. Don't worry. It's part of the deal. But it was about Cesc, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's your... You know, you're one of the greatest strikers to ever play in the Premier League. He's a young player coming in at Manchester United. What are your thoughts on Cesc? I think, yeah, he's gone through a bit of a tough time in terms of gold score. But I think what he brings, and I agree with what Adam said in terms of, I think the keeper's come in and done well and he's been more direct into Sesko, but what we're seeing now is he can compete, he does hold the ball up better than Hoyland does and we're seeing as the ball's going up to him, Embumo making runs in behind, Cuny making runs in behind, Mason Mount at times when he's playing, making runs in behind, because they know he'll compete and he'll win flick-ons and he'll do that.

1:14:14So I think he's been better than what people may be suggesting. But I still think he needs to just get the ball, lay it off, get in the box and hope the chances are created for him. But I think he'll come good. OK, so I just mentioned, you know, obviously your history as a striker in the Premier League. There's been a lot of strikers bought this season for lots of different clubs. Just a little quick answer on each of them. We've just mentioned Cesc. go. So, Walter Marder, what's your feeling on him? I'm not too sure. Let me be honest. OK, that was quick. Jokeres? I like Jokeres. I think work rate is what Arsenal's needed for the last few years.

1:15:01I think it's been a really good time. Ekotike? Brilliant. I love watching him play. OK, that'll do for me. Superb. about Isak Shorten Shaft about Isak wasn't on the list you know what Isak I think people don't maybe don't realise as much how important your pre-season is if you don't have a pre-season it's very difficult and obviously with everything that went on and trying to get out to Newcastle and missing that there's no surprise he's injured he got injured you know yourself don't you if you miss that pre-season you're always catching up very difficult yeah okay a team who do need to catch up see what I did there Dave right talk to me about Wolves I mean I thought when Pereira came in last season saved you he looked a really good coach great experience he was what was it points in the pints with the fans he's all loved them what went wrong yeah well probably six seven months ago when I came on and we were talking about that and the feeling around the club was good we won six on the bounce had a slow end to the season.

1:16:13I think we went winless in our last four. And we've seen it with so many Wolves managers, Bruno Large, Nuno to a degree, Gary O 'Neill, where they almost hit a peak and then it just goes downhill. And for whatever reason, they just can't get the momentum back. So we went winless in those last four. We had a disastrous pre-season. We didn't win a single game in pre-season. And what, we're sort of 10, 11 games in now. We're still winless in the league as well. We're done an OK run in the Carabao Cup. Got a couple of wins against Premier League teams in that. But that feeling of connection between us and the head coach went very, very quickly.

1:16:45And it left us in a sticky position, a really slow pre-season, slow on the transfer market. The board sort of pushed the responsibility publicly towards Vitor Pereira, whereas he was talking to the press, almost pushing it to the board, saying, I need money, I need stuff quicker. And going back to what you just said about pre-season, some of his players came in after the season started. He was almost waiting, then you get an international break and all of them would go away. so it was probably up until game week five or six when he had all his squad together for the first time. But he was dropping certain players, the performances were nowhere near good enough and I think he probably had to go when he did, to be honest.

1:17:21Do you think it's possible to rectify the situation now? I mean, it's very similar to last season. I'm just seeing here, after 10 games, you had three points last season. This season, you've got two points. It looks like Rob Edwards is going to come in from Middlesbrough. I mean, is the squad good enough to stay open no matter who the manager is? I don't think it is at the moment, to be honest. I look at the squad and I think there's a couple of good individuals in there. I think, obviously, Strand Larsson, heavily linked to Newcastle in the summer. João Gomes and Andre, both Brazilian internationals.

1:17:49And there's still a bulk of that squad, which were part of Pereira's squad in the second half of last season. I know we've lost a lot of Cunha, Noury, Samedo. But even when we won that six on the bounce, Cunha was missing for four of those six games. So, you know, we've shown the quality, but for whatever reason, we just can't get a noise out of this team. So what I'm hoping with Rob Edwards, obviously the situation surrounding him coming to the club there's a lot of what's the right word a lot of I don't know it's quite a lot of Middlesbrough fans aren't happy with that basically so there's a lot of pressure for him coming into the club but he's just got to get a bit of motivation he's almost got to speak to these players one on one saying do you want to be here and do you want to be part of the fight because we need to do that but the stat that you said about last season it's not great reading that three points last season but ultimately we stayed up with quite a lot of a lot of space between us and the bottom three but at the moment this club it's rotten from top to bottom the squad just like I said need some work but the guys at the top of the club unfortunately it looks like they don't care anymore we've tried to speak out about it they don't want to speak to us I think unfortunately it's going to end up with some sort of peaceful protest or something I don't know which is a concern If Rob Edwards is watching the overlap and he watches the overlap Rob so I'm told what advice would you give them in terms of the football pitch?

1:19:07You know, Wolves always change from a back four to a back five. Is there a certain player that Pereira wasn't playing in a certain position? What would be the couple of things that you think need to change straight away? I think that he had a bit of flexibility at Middlesbrough where he was switching to a five and a four. And I think the squad that we've got probably can do that. But I think, again, going back to what you said earlier on, having a bit more consistency with the line-up. Under Nuno, every Saturday, Sunday, whenever we were playing, you could name 1-11 who was going to be on the pitch.

1:19:32and that's how we got consistent results whereas Vitor Pereira just didn't know what his best 11 was. He signed players that weren't getting opportunities but in terms of chance creation and goal scoring we need to be providing more. We're playing against teams this season that aren't even getting out of first gear against Wolves and still beating us. I think Chelsea was one, Fulham was another one, Brighton we dropped points against. They were awful at Molineux and we still didn't win that game. The three newly promoted sides lost to every single one of them already. We're going towards Christmas.

1:20:03We've still got to play Liverpool, United twice, Arsenal. It's a tough start for him. But I think, like I said earlier, the motivational side of things, he's got to get a sound out of these players. But I think we're eight points adrift already, but a couple of decent weekends. And all of a sudden, the Premier League table looks a lot different. I would say 99 % of Wolves fans have probably resigned to us going down. But I've still just got that little bit of belief that a couple of decent weekends, and we can be a bit happier as fans, a little bit more positive and yeah, things can change quite quickly.

1:20:34So you're the 1 %? Yeah, I am. I'd be fuming as well if I was a Middlesbrough fan. I just think they got relegated with Luton and then he goes into Middlesbrough, a big club as well and they've took a chance on him. He started the season really well and to lead... I just don't think he should have left. I think it's a massive risk for his career. I think other owners will be looking at that and moving beyond this Wolves job, that might affect him. The only thing I thought about, but then I read a little bit more about, does his family live? Family are local. He's played 110 times, I think, for Wolves.

1:21:14I think it was almost always going to happen sometime in his career that he was going to come back to Wolves to manage. And I just don't mean the timings have fallen into place. So I do understand it to a degree. I think Middlesbrough fans and the club are very unhappy. But at the same time, the same to me, he's such a bad manager. So why are you upset about him moving on there?

1:21:39International break, the England game's coming up. World Cup is fast approaching. If you were picking England's best team, what would that be? Do you think that would have a chance of winning the World Cup? They've got a chance, of course. I think it's going to be very difficult, just where it is. I think the heat there, obviously, I've played out there. in the MLS and you know trying to recover from games is different to what it is over here just the heat the humidity over there so I think it will be tough but England have got a chance just because they've got good players and they've got a good manager I think Tuchel starts off a bit slow didn't it with Tuchel and them games are horrible you know playing Andorra and these teams who sit in they're not enjoyable games they were the only ones I got picked for them games are horrible but I think we're gradually seeing better performances and I think he's been decisive in his decision I think leaving Jude out Jude will be in the squad for the World Cup he has to be he has to be in the team no I don't think he has to be in the team I'd have him in the team but I think what he's done he's set a mark down with the players and Foden's been out the last couple of squads and then he's come back into it these players have to be in the squad I'm not saying they need to be playing in the team and the team needs to be set and settled in terms of what suits the team.

1:23:06So in World Cup, you need... These games he's played, you can afford to have two midfielders in there. When you're coming up against the best teams, you need three midfielders in there who are going to work. And we never really done that. It would be in our time. Whatever, but you need... So could that work right now with Elliot Anderson, Declan Rice and Jude Bellingham? Yeah, I think Jude works. Get Phil in there. He's been good this season. I think he is going under the radar as well. I love Phil Foden. Phil Foden's my favourite England player. I love him. I think he's brilliant. He struggled on me a little bit last season.

1:23:41But if Phil's playing fit, in my opinion, he needs to play as well. So that's the problem Thomas Nussle has. That's why he's England manager. Where would you play Phil Foden? Tuchel said he's not seen him as a winger. He's a central player. OK, so who doesn't play them? Well, I think it's a difficult situation because it was the whole debate last time. Foden on the left didn't really work. You've got Saka on the right. You've got Bellingham obviously putting some good performances in the last tournament. So I want to see him in that number 10. I know, I know. So what is it then? I think maybe Bellingham drops back.

1:24:19No, I think he's doing it. OK, so Bellingham drops back to centre midfield. So who's on the bench? And Elliot Anderson's on the bench. I actually don't think Foden plays. I don't think he plays as much. He's your favourite player. Yeah, he's my favourite player. But I think in big games against the better teams, I think Dürer can play in the three-in-the-field because he will work, he will be more box-to-box. They're more foaming. And I think Saka and Anthony Gordon have to play. If fit. Not Rashford on the left. For me, I just think Saka and Anthony Gordon. Saka's been brilliant. Pace around Harry Kane And then Gordon Again He works back But also Pace running behind Rashford's more Takes the ball to it I know he can run in behind But more taking the ball to feet And I'd have Marcus As a Coming off the bench And maybe For Harry Kane Later on in games Especially when England are in a good position So Foden doesn't play Do you think though With the way that Foden's Been playing for City Where he has been playing Quite a bit deeper Like I thought he was Quite crucial in the way That City built out yesterday Against those teams That do press high Do you not think against against certain opposition it could work for England where you have the midfield three that we're probably always wanting to see in an ideal world of Rice, Bellingham and Foden like you could have Bellingham kind of dropping deeper to help out at times and Foden pushing on like against the bigger teams when it comes to like quarterfinal, semifinal you're probably going to want an Anderson in there or maybe a Wharton alongside Rice to kind of help break play up but I think it could work you always I don't think in big games and you always see there's players in teams who you think how are they playing how are they playing in that team for Spain or whatever there's players in there and you're thinking how are these playing?

1:26:01But they give so much to a team Jason Park used to with us at Man United these players give so much to the team who give your Bellingham's and your Rashford's or Gordon's or whoever it is gives them a little bit of freedom because you know they're going to work where I think with them team in the field you're bringing Declan Rice back where he's been playing so well in a more advanced position so someone like Anderson in there who you might think oh how is he going to get in the team Phil Foden's a better player than him but I just think he might be better suited to England team for us to be so successful No I agree with that with Wayne I think sometimes with Phil Foden I watched him midweek I was at the game I wasn't in the away end I was in the in the press box but I think when you look at someone like Phil Foden it's hard to look at him play well for Man City and I think he should play for him because we've seen him play well for Man City for about how long has he been in the team now seven or eight years he hasn't quite played well for England so I think Phil probably would and it's right should be getting judged on his England performance you don't want a situation where people are getting picked just because they're a name we've had that in the past also I've seen Tuchel talk and I think he is prepared to drop we've seen Bellingham I know we've seen him get taken out of the squad I think Tuchel is going to build a team rather than just putting all the big names in not to just bring it back to club football straight away but you look at Liverpool or how good of a team they were last season.

1:27:24You throw in a load of big names and it's not panned out. So the same applies to international football. You want to build a team, don't you? Good manager. In what he's done, how successful he's been. In his eyes, I'd imagine he's thinking, I'm here for the World Cup and that's it. So he doesn't have to think beyond that. So I think it's telling when he's picking some players because he's thinking, I've got this one shot, I'm winning the World Cup. so he's not thinking about relationships with Bell and Gum or Foden or whoever moving beyond this he's thinking I'm picking the squad which I feel is best to win the league and I think we have to trust him with that because Do you think he's going to rock the boat a bit then with some of the moves he does make like do you think he's going to leave out some of these big names in the summer or why not he could do yeah I think he's obviously looking he's brought the young lad Scott in from Bournemouth as well he wants to have a look at him before the World Cup so I still think there's room for players to come in and players to lose the place in the squad definitely I feel like that squad's quite close to what it's probably going to be though right I feel like it's the closest we've been the only thing I would say is that there's no other striker in there other than Kane I know he's not picked that is a worry definitely based on I think he said it was fitness do you worry about I think Kane's got the World Cup and then the Euros he probably still will be around as well do you worry about England's kind of lack of success Danny Welbe has got a goal got a goal yeah but I'm thinking like for tournaments past it I think for me, just the game in general, there's not that many number nines out there anymore.

1:28:55If you think back from Euro 96, you think of the forwards England had to pick from then. Ian Wright, Fowler, Shearer, Ferdinand, Fowler, Sheringham, Chris Sutton. The amount of strikers England had to pick from then. And now, I think the goal scorers rarely, Barron Harland Kane Mbappe come from wide areas that's where a lot of teams have scored on the goals so kids growing up my lad striker then he moves out to the right and I'm like get back up front but you're up there but it's I think young kids now are seeing these flare players playing out wide like the wide strikers yeah and that's what they want to do so number nine is going out the game a little bit but when you've got a number nine like Kane that's the concern for me is you put he has to play but I think for 20 minutes of games towards the end as he's getting a little bit older you want someone fresh legs up there and I just can't tell you who is Is there anyone that's like de Lapp or anyone like that that sort of stands out I know he's not been fit for a while Chelsea's just come back and obviously was suspended as well but I'm trying to think of who else He did mention in the press conference he mentioned about Foden saying he was going to play him in one of the games as like a false I'm sure I read that somewhere did you see that?

1:30:18Yeah and he's been there before like we won the league without a striker I know we had Jesus but he was injured quite a lot and Aguero was coming right to the end of his career 2020-21 we didn't have a striker like we won the league so Foden's got experience playing in that kind of false nine I'm not sure how that'd work Still got Bellingham to like crash the box haven't you as well that's kind of what he does best so could work I suppose Right that's another episode of the Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet Thank you.