PL Christmas Lists, Rashford's Future & Scholes' Favourite Goals | The Overlap Fan Debate

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1:02Is Rashford that good that you're actually going to lose that much by him not playing? It feels like the end for him, doesn't it? He doesn't look happy, the lad. The spontaneity that Nibu is referring to there is what makes football so beautiful. Are you made to know? No, I'm actually not giving up for that. No, no. It's just a struggle to see City at the minute. It's not a struggle, it's brilliant, to be fair. You survived ten minutes and no one said a word to me. I've just been tired of quiet. But with where we are at right now, I don't see us winning the league. And you as all went on your TV channel and made sure he never got the job.

1:30I didn't. Any England ones? England. No, we f***ed.

1:42Hello and welcome back to the Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet and I'm joined by my fan debate by a partner in crime. Feels like it. So we should be going to get to the weekend, should we? Yeah. How are you feeling on the back of that? You seem quite excited on your Instagram stories. Still are. I can't remember. No, brilliant, obviously. It wasn't the greatest of games, I don't think, but when there's a way to win it, I think that's probably the best way. I don't think there's much quality in the game. Probably the one of the worst armies we've seen for quite some time from both teams, but of course you take that.

2:17I think Diallo was really good on the day. He was probably United's best player, which probably wasn't that difficult. And as we all know, City have got some problems. we talk all the way we've said it on air many times about United being easy to play against I think City have almost become that team you think of Pets teams and it's always think about possession keeping the ball but more than that how quickly do you used to win the ball back I think that's gone I think that ziffed the legs Can you get it back this season? Obviously Rodri is not going to be back can John Stones help with that is he someone who's similar to that position I'm not sure because he can't quite stay fit.

3:00You just don't see where them legs are coming from. There's the kid Lewis who should be able to get around a pitch at his age, but with the rest of them, it just seems like there's an ageing to them and something that Pep's going to have to address. Well, two players who have got decent legs for Manchester United, but they weren't allowed to show it at the weekend, Guy Natcho and Rashford what were your thoughts on that? Well we don't know we're not privy to what happens but beyond the scenes and on the training pitch it obviously feels that it feels the dedication towards it isn't quite there whether they're not training right How many times are you going to say this about Rashford I feel like he had this under Tenag there was a game at Wolves I think where he never played he's been away where Namoram's just over the mat I mean this feels like a recurring theme with him Yeah, look, it feels like the end for him, doesn't it?

3:55He doesn't look happy, the lad, when he's playing, even if he's scoring a goal. You're thinking, what's wrong with him? Is he getting the right support behind the scenes? I don't know. And you're right, it did happen with Tana. I think he was late for a meeting, wasn't he, at the Wolves game. And again, he's been left out of this squad. I just think he's on and off the field choice at the minute. I'm just not quite right. Adam, what are your thoughts on Garnaccio and Rashford? He's called, as you just said, he thinks it's the end. I think the same are you of that mind frame? I'm a little bit torn on it I'm a big fan of Marcus Rashford so I've got a lot of time for him I think when he's flying and he's on form I think he's a fantastic player and obviously he comes through the academy is one of our own you want to see players like that doing well but it's been sad to kind of watch him play without a smile on his face now I think a lot of this was a survey and I think he was like one of the most criticised footballers or athletes on social media worldwide up there with LeBron James and stuff like that and I think some of the criticism he gets I mean you know he's got the right wing press on him as well because of what he did in terms of like helping helping kids want food and stuff like that which is mental but I think there's a player there and I think I want to see Marcus Rashford playing with a smile on his face again for Manchester United it'd be so disappointing to see him leave and rediscover himself find his form but like you say he's not playing with a smile on his face at times it looks like he doesn't want to be there and it could be a case that he needs a fresh start United need a fresh start and it's best for him to move on but you look at his record I think six players have scored more Premier League goals for him for Manchester United than him so it's disappointing to see that happening with him but he's got to get it right he's got to start training right and I think Ruben Amorim has shown that if you're not performing you're not training you're not going to get into the team Do you know what?

5:40You know when I was watching the game and Ruben Amorim had made the decision and managers always make this decision every manager especially at a big club comes in and does something early on and everyone goes oh he's showing the dressing room and all that I actually think it was the biggest open goal for the manager to make himself look strong because if I'm being honest is Rashford that good that you're actually going to lose that much by him not playing so it's not like you're leaving out your top man and it's going to affect your team but you're then sending a message to the team I'm not sure he's in the best team actually so I think it was brilliant for the managers to do it everyone's talking about because Rashford's always was a huge talking point.

6:19But I don't think it actually took anything away from the team. My thing with Rashford, you've just mentioned LeBron James there. It's like, I think we talk about Rashford too much, and I know we are talking about it on this show. Yeah, we're not talking about Garnaccio, we're talking about him. I know, but it's like, I don't think he's that good a player for the amount of times that we spend probably talking about him and the attention he gets. That's my fear. It's not like Beckham. When Beckham was, and he was maybe having a bit of a thing with Ferguson, but it was Beckham. He was, you know, he's a brilliant, amazing player.

6:47He was a big name in the papers. He's not even in the England squad. I think when you look at the pressure he's under, and I think a lot of people compare it to the pressure that Scolese would have faced or Giggs or Rooney or whoever. But one of the things, two things, they didn't have to deal with social media, which I think is massive. And to say players don't look at it would be a lie. I think they clearly do. They're well aware of what's going on. They're well aware of how they're perceived in public. But also when Scolese and Giggs and all these players were going through bad times, They had Sir Alex Ferguson there as the figurehead of the club.

7:18They had a dressing room full of captains, full of leaders, someone that would pull you into line if you were falling out of favour or if you were doing things wrong off the pitch. I think it's kind of like a symptom of the problems that have been at the club for so long, the culture at the club. And we have to change that. But it does feel like maybe too much has gone on. But again, I kind of say, I want to see Rashford playing for Manchester United. that I want to see him succeeding at the club. And that's why it kind of disappoints me a little bit. And it would be a sad thing to see him leave.

7:49I'm a big fan of his. And when he's on form, he's absolutely fantastic. But we haven't seen it for 18 months. I agree, Adam, with that. I hate seeing local lads leave, you know, especially when they're so tired. I remember when people like Danny Welbeck and then were left and just cast aside a little bit. But I think the thing with Marcus, he was that good two years ago. he had that season where he scored 30 goals he just never managed to get to that level again and that's why he gets a stick because he produced a standard and now for the last two years 18 months, two years, whatever it's been he's just nowhere near that It looks like he's got the weight of the world on his shoulders all the time It looks like he's got the weight of the world and it's like, I don't want to speculate on what's going on off the pitch but it does just look like he's There's something not right Whether it's the support system around him I don't know but there's something definitely not right And that's one of the things United was about, like protecting your own, making sure, you know, Fergie would tell the journalists to piss off and everyone else.

8:48Like, he'd protect everyone and kind of rally around the troops. And I tweeted the other day, I thought it'd be ridiculous to sell him. And I kind of got loads of abuse for supporting him. And I thought, this is mental, like really and truly, we should be behind him. But again... How long do you think he'd go on now before you... I know, again, you have to take responsibility. You can't be worried about him going to another club and actually starting to produce. There's every chance that could happen. but he's not doing it for us now and it's been 18 months, two years. I also think that the set-up of the manager, there isn't really a winger in that system.

9:18It's like, I don't think Rashford's suit having his back to go and I think a lot of time whether he played centre forward, I think Hoyland's better than him in that position and those two number 10 positions, I don't really see him. He's not going to play wing back. I just think the whole set-up really of this manager and suit, I think probably best for all parties that he probably moved on. But Niamh, I want to come to you. You watched the game on TV, you weren't at the game so what were your thoughts when you watch it from both teams' point of view? The big thing for me with City was we've watched those City defenders especially sort of play slightly different each game in the last sort of 5-10 games where Pep's changing it up.

9:55I think Walker obviously was a bit close to the centre-backs and he's been hugging the sidelines in previous games. Nunes obviously at left-back. But a lot of them, when I watched them, there was that one where Rasmus, when he was running into the box and nearly got the penalty. If you look at the other side of the City defence, one of the players wasn't even looking at what was going on with the game. He was looking at where he should be and they were sort of talking to each other. And it got me thinking, I wonder how well those players actually know where they're supposed to be on the pitch for City.

10:26And that's such a big part of our pet plays. And I wonder with you guys, if you go through tough spells and the manager's changing it, how much does the manager convey to you as to why you're playing where you are to help you understand it? Well Scores you played for Alex Fagin probably the only other manager who could go up against Pep if you like and serial winner but when you're going through a spell like this and you've sort of never really experienced before I mean did you ever have spells like that at United what we're seeing now at City? I was trying to remember I don't think there's I've ever seen anything like this was it 8 in 11 games that they've lost or something?

11:04I remember we lost three games on the spin once and that was when people were injured. I think Ryan might have ended up playing centre-half or something. And it felt like a crisis. And it was a crisis. Manchester United expected to win every week. And I've heard people say, now that there still isn't a crisis for Man City, it is. Yeah, it's definitely. It definitely is. You're in an absolute mess. The manager's got to find some way out of it. But when that happened to you at United, what you said, then you're talking about maybe Roy Keane at times going to centre-back. Would the manager maybe try and do something different to try and get you out of the trough that you were in?

11:38I think he would, yeah. He pulled you out of retirement at one point, didn't he? That was one thing they tried. I can't wait to say that, could you? Clearly worked as well. But yeah, a lot of managers try to find ways, you probably add it in your dressing room, you're having meetings, the players start having meetings together, trying to thrash it out, trying to see what's happening. And sometimes you just don't know, You have to rely on the players to get it out of the mess. The one message the manager always said, he never panicked about it. It was always keep everything simple. If you were going through a bad spell or farm yourself, if your team was going through a bad spell, keep it simple.

12:15Do the simple things really well. And eventually it'll come back, that confidence comes back. It's just a struggle to see City at the minute. It's not a struggle, it's looking brilliant to be fair. I've survived 10 minutes and no one's said a word to me. I've just been sat here quiet. I can't see any light at the end of the tunnel I think they've got Villa at the weekend I think Villa at the weekend and again I don't see 12.30 is what it stinks I don't see where the next win's coming from at this point and there'll be panic stations Do you see where the next win's coming from? Well the thing is I've been at every one of them 11 games and every game I've thought this will be the one this will be the one and I thought the United game would have been the start of something new and then you get to 87 minutes and it's just thrown it away we've literally thrown it away What happened then?

12:58Nunez happened mate honestly the thing is as well people give him a lot of stick he's genuinely he's been one of the stand for me anyway he's been one of the standout standout performers from a perspective he's had to fill in left right and centre he's not been playing his natural role this guy this season I think's been decent Nunes I think he's been alright but he's going to get a lot of stick and you know what I don't think he deserves it but that's what he did he piled into him for no reason what's he doing he's lost the ball you don't need to make a foul there I think the danger had gone a little bit and he's just disaster how bad does it have to get before you start questioning the manager He could finish 17 for me and he's not good.

13:32One thing about Pep, though, is when we spoke about Fergie, and obviously Fergie would lose his head at times on the sidelines, but Pep seems to be really affected by what's going on. Normally you see the manager kind of rise above it and kind of show that they're still in control, but he seems to be really impacted. I thought he said the other day, though, I will fix it. I quite like that. I like these involved. If he didn't care, he'd be like, what's he doing here? Do you know what I mean? Obviously I'd never say that as a City fan, but he's here and I'm confident he's going to fix it. He didn't get particularly backed in the previous window.

14:04As I said... I don't think Pep Quarry all would complain about not getting back. Jamie's spent less than Birmingham City in the last summer and they're in league one. No, he has a decent team. Probably doesn't need as much as Birmingham City. Well, the decent team, we've lost Rodri and Foden's not been out this season and you look at him now and we've got three fit defenders for the United game. He wants a small squad though, doesn't he? That's partly his own... He does but recently he said maybe that's not the way to go anymore. He's got all these games. we're going to play 75 games this season.

14:30Losing 8 out of 11 people. You won't play 75 to carry on the way you are, will you? We've got the Club World Cup, so I don't think United... We've got Sol for an FA Cup. We'll probably lose that one. Do you think the way he has players playing so specific and set to a certain style has almost come back to haunt him now, though? Because in games where that United City game was so... It cried out for someone like Ahmad to just do something, be a man, be that difference maker. And yet City have got all these talented players, but Grealish at no point did it look like he would do that. But we know that he's capable of it.

15:10We did it last night on the TV, Tearón. We looked at that where the first goal actually comes from Grealish turning down the opportunity to run at Bruno Fernandes from the corner where it comes from. And something like that of when you look at certain players, you almost feel at times Pep is that in control of him I mean how can you criticise Pep Guardiola but it's almost like they lose that little bit of something and Thierry Henry made the point last night that he played in that position for him for Barcelona on the wing and he said sometimes though you've just got to he's telling you what to do he's behind you but sometimes you've just got to no I want to do this you've got to actually feel it yourself and then it is sad watching Jack Eilish in a Manchester City shirt Like, listen, he's won the treble, he'll be remembered forever.

15:56But you do feel like just go and be yourself, do something. Is that what you're talking about? Yeah, and I think as well, I think because there's a bit of a transition with City with their attacking players, like Savino on the other side, Doku, they've kind of been unfortunate with the timing that the attackers they've got, they're not used to all this winning that the other City attackers had. So they might not have the confidence to do that, what you're saying. And they might just be thinking, what would Pep want me to do? because you don't really want to go against him. That's where the players are around him.

16:27He's got brilliant experience. I've been used to that for the last six or seven years. You think De Bruyne is going to win. He came back. Phil Foden has been successful. Harlan's brilliant centre-forward. Do you not think the recruitment's been poor over the last couple? Yeah. Which is weird for City, but sort of like losing Mahrez. He was in them games, maybe not against United, but a lot of games he'd come on and score or did play him. Losing Cole Palmer. I mean, Cole Palmer's the one where you look and go, how did anyone allow him to go off the club it's bizarre you know they've lost people like Ferran Torres over the time Gundogan people don't talk about Cancelo as well think about how good he was two or three years ago he wouldn't have even he didn't like him they fell out but he was a good he still got to be replaced he was a great player and Alvarez yeah Alvarez a lot of your key players as well like Bernardo Silva Gundogan De Bruyne Carl Walker I think they've been living who moves away for a long time Carl Walker's about to go Sheffield United not long ago and there was Bernardo Silva's wanted out for a lot of De Bruyne there's been question marks about him you bring Gundogan back from you know sunny Spain and he probably don't want to be there I think the thing is with Gundogan as well he's come back expecting to play 30 games and he's been put in the team every week the Roger injury obviously a lot stemmed from that it's not just that there's the issue but again like you said the recruitment for me it is a shame though isn't it like you know the spontaneity it's not necessarily a shame for their demise I'm thoroughly enjoying that but you know just for like the individual players involved like the spontaneity that Niva was referring to there is what makes football so beautiful Are you made to know?

17:59No I'm not forgiving for that No no I'm keeping her on side but you know like that spontaneity that's the artistry of football and it's beautiful somebody does something unpredictable Sorry what's sad about it? It's sad because Jack Grealish if we use him as an example here he could be doing something historic in a Manchester derby that would live forever Your moment when you scored in the Cup when they brought you out of retirement and you had to buy boots in Sports Direct or whatever. So the legend goes. Paul Pogba stopped Man City within the league by scoring for Manchester United. You can remember moments, Sean Wright Phillips pinging him in.

18:32You're under one after 12 seconds. Exactly. You have those moments that live forever and that's football, that's what it's about. Jack Griggins, I think, is capable of that. He hasn't scored for all the year. But we know he's capable, don't we? It's kind of tactical. It's as if his wings have been clipped. And I think that's sad. Yeah, yeah. Do you know what, as a player, you sometimes have to forget what your manager's saying. I know it's... That's what he said last year. Yeah, I think... Sorry, I didn't say it. You ain't listening. Thanks. I was watching Fleetwood. But you just have to forget about it.

19:05Even sometimes when you're going for a really bad run, as some players are, you've just got to take responsibility to yourselves. Try and remember what you used to do that was good. And you think of Jack Green, especially at Aston Villa, look he's had times at Man City where he's been right he's not scored a goal for a year or had an assist I don't think he has to look back and think what was I good at he was brilliant at going people bouncing the ball off the centre four hitting the ball into the top corner so sometimes what your manager says to you just forget it and I don't like admitting that because Sir Alex Ferguson but when you're going through a bad patch sometimes just take responsibility yourself and say this is up to me He can't come out on a pitch and play for me.

19:49He can help me as much as he wants from there. But I have no one who's got to go out and do it. Is there a lack of responsibility? So I think you said the stat about Grealish. Phil Foden, I think, has scored one Premier League goal. Is it responsibility? Something's been really strange with Phil Foden this year. He hardly played a game in the first part of the season. Now you expect him to just come back in and be the same Phil Foden that there has been. And again, when you're that type of player, you'd call Phil Foden number 10, wouldn't you? you need that solidity behind you if you're going to flourish and that's where we all know that Rodri's been missing

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21:25Sadie is a Mochi member compensated for her story.

21:32Right, we're going to get to Christmas now. We've got a few Christmas hats on that, so we're going to play a little game. All you want for Christmas. So, Gareth, I'm going to start with you. What do you want for Christmas? the title that's it I mean you know Liverpool won the league in my lifetime in my match going lifetime if you want to call it that but we were on that superb charge in the COVID season 26 out of 27 and then we didn't get to do the good but at the end and my lad now has really got into going the game as well I want him to see that so nothing more than that you know like now we are where we are and I know we've drawn a couple of games and Chelsea are getting excited but I want us to go on and win that and I want to see us do it see us lift the trophy see it be in the ground and it not be that sort of slightly strange season that we had last time I'm the same as you the title feels so important for Liverpool this season and you almost want to really explain that to the manager that's what I want to feel I feel like I want to just get old and say listen forget the you know the FA Cup and the Carabao just honestly I can assure you every Liverpool fan is not bothered about them this season you're in a position where decent lead, it looks like City are not going to be involved, you fancy you can take on Arsenal or Chelsea that's the feeling with the fan base isn't it get the Cups This morning he was talking about Diogo Jota not being available for Southampton in the Carabao Cup and I was made up don't want him to play in it because I would rather see Diogo Jota playing at the weekend in a league game that's way more important we know what his injury record's like, we know he can pick up knocks, don't play him in the Carabao Cup if we can win the Carabao Cup essentially playing the Resies or lads who are in and around the squad, then sound and that would be great, but it's so far not a priority now we've got to where we've got to and everyone always says if you're there or thereabouts at Christmas you've got a chance and we are, I want to see them strengthen in January, I want to see them absolutely go.

23:29Where do you want to see them strengthen? Yeah, left back is the obvious one isn't it, I think it's really hard for me, I've got to be honest to talk about Robbo at the moment because I absolutely love the fella. He's been brilliant for Liverpool and I think it's hard as a fan to detach yourself from the character, the man you've known, all the stuff he's done for Liverpool. He's the fella for me that if you said go for a pint with anyone in Liverpool squad right now, I'd want to go with Rob and so to start saying, actually he might be dropping off a little bit here now. He's 30 now. He needs help, doesn't he?

24:04Yeah. I mean you've just said something about Andy Robertson's there. Now Simicast is he's not at the level we know that but in terms of Andy Roberts he's just playing too much football you know he can still do that thing of 50 and 20 games a season but he just needs help in January Klopp said it didn't he when he was here he said you know the style that he had his full backs playing in he said you can't play them 50 odd games a season if you look at Robbo's record in the 8 years he's been here he's played 50 odd games a season nearly 4 or 5 out of those seasons so he's run a lot he's been up and down a lot and I think if it's starting to take its toll a little bit when he's nearly 31.

24:40That's absolutely fair enough. So get some younger legs in. Get some good younger legs in. As you say, better than Simmercastle as well. That would be the priority. I'd still like one in midfield as well if we could. I'm worried about Gravenberg because he's playing every minute of every game near enough. He took him off against Newcastle because he looked leggy. But he was looking leggy because of what I've just said. He started every Premier League game, every Champions League game. He's been absolutely brilliant. I don't actually think he's been that bad you know who? Robertson I know he's made a couple of mistakes I think he's a big one yeah which was only the other guy no I don't actually think he's been that bad and he looks the type of player I know we spoke about earlier in the season as well because he was in and out a little bit on this one I think he's the type of player that needs to play every week I think he's just having that thing Scorsi where I've been there as a player and Gary speaks about this a lot full back is the one area you can get really exposed where you almost feel alone at centre back you're okay you can get a midfield you can just sometimes you can be left alone out there and I think it's that thing of not even that he has been that bad but the more people talk about it you think the opposition and think oh that's it gets in your head and then oh he'll target that side so you're actually getting asked a lot more questions than you normally would do because this narrative starts especially around defenders when you get to a certain age I had it people keep telling you every time you had a bad game it's because of your age and you're thinking I had loads of bad games when I was 23 you know it's just but when that narrative starts and people start speaking about it.

26:07It gets in your head, it gets in the players you're playing with. Well, that's what teams are doing. They'll start targeting it. Even if it might not be a weakness, but just because of what's happening to him now and he's making mistakes, people are just going to target that area all the time. We'll try and edit this bit out so he doesn't see it. Sorry, Robbo. Charlene, what do you want for Christmas? What we've been asking for for some time, a striker. That is what we need desperately. As we've seen, we've been getting most of our joy from corners. Our open play, we just ain't been able to score goals.

26:42And it's been a concern for some time and it still is. So, yeah, striker is definitely what we need. Do you think it's necessarily a striker or just another top attacking place? I look at Martinelli and I actually think probably three years ago when this team was just getting built, it felt like Odegaard and Saka and Martinelli were all sort of like almost at the same sort of level, looking like they could go on and become top players. I think the other two have. I'm not sure about Martinelli's score. What are your thoughts? Yeah, no, it feels like he's gone backwards a little bit. You thought, year 18 months ago, well, what a player.

27:16And he has started a little bit. How old is he now? Is he 24, 25? Yeah, around that. He's still young, isn't he? We said we didn't miss, I think we said pre-season, centre forward was always something that we felt Arsenal needed. and for some reason I don't think the manager did. Then we all thought that Odegaard coming back into the team would create more stuff. I think he has made them a better team and I think eventually they will be OK. But you'd have to say in January he'd be looking for... But January is so hard. What names do you think? He's out there, yeah. What are you thinking, Charlie, in what names?

27:48Well, we were looking at Ivan Toni. The fact that he's Premier League proven, but obviously he's gone over to Saudi. Just someone who is going to finish and score goals in terms of Martinelli he has been quite hit and miss because he goes through patches where he's amazing and then he has a bad game then we bring in Trossard and then there's the question of okay are we better off starting Trossard because he's effective then he'll have a bad game he looks a better sub Trossard doesn't he? yeah he's better off coming off the bench and then he sort of makes that statement you know when he does come off the bench and he scores a goal you see from his body language and everything that it's like well I should be starting but then he does get the start and then the quality just isn't there.

28:31And I can also see why we haven't gone in for a striker because there were patches where we was able to just score from different positions in the pitches, from different areas. But that seems to have dropped off. Martin Odegaard, who he's come back from injury and he's had some chances that he should be putting away again. Do you think if you don't address that in January, do you think the league's gone? Do you think you're capable of winning the league with the squad you have right now? If I'm being completely honest, normally I'm very optimistic and I have belief and faith in the team. But with where we are at right now, I don't see us winning the league.

29:09I think it's, yeah, we're just way off winning the league. Unless we do get a striker. And also it's the mentality as well. You know, we don't look like the same team that we looked like last season, where we showed that passion, that hunger, like we really wanted to go for it and win it. We're not really showing that this season. I don't know if it's because of the injuries that we've been faced with, that's sort of having that detrimental effect. And you don't even know if players are playing with injuries as well. You know, Mikel Arteta spoke about Declan Rice, you know, being subbed off because he's still got a bit of a niggle.

29:40So, you know, players are playing probably not at full fitness, so that's another concern. And the squad is quite light. I think it's a challenge for the elite. I think you need goals from everywhere. Literally. I don't see him coming from the midfield area for Arsenal. You think, I remember we did something with Gary and so Declan Rice could be that man to go and get your 10-15 goal. I've never actually seen it and I don't see where, other than Saka probably scoring, Havert seems to have dried up as well. I think all the guys are still getting their chances and I think eventually the quality he's got, he is going to contribute.

30:13But I think they all have to contribute, like I say, the midfield players. It's all right playing midfield, but at some point you've got to try and affect a game. I think too many times these midfield players are just there to stay there, try and control the game help defensively but it's when you're a midfield player it's every aspect of the game you've got to try and sometimes someone different's got to try and win a game for you and they don't seem to be thinking about like I play my position I'm alright not taking responsibility to win a league everyone has to contribute and I don't think they all are Oh the guards created the most chances I think in open play since he come back saw that doing this before our game the other day thinking marvellous but definitely a striker for me even an option you look at Havert and you're like he's decent but is he really you're never ever winning you're never winning a Premier League you need even an option off the bench though it's like I was looking at and I know I'm going to say this but he doesn't score goals anyway but Dominic Calvert-Lewin has been mentioning with Arsenal it's like he's something that Arsenal wouldn't have like a powerful number 9 something if you're creating we haven't even got that option like the other day I think Arsenal will click eventually yeah I do I'd be more worried if they weren't creating chances and I still think you're getting a chance and I think players will end up scoring goals for us.

31:28It's still like a son of a road. From a Liverpool point of view, I would say right now I'm probably still more worried about Arsenal than Chelsea. I mean, what would you say about that, Rory? We're talking about Christmas, but I mean, would you... If we're clever in January and we go out and for Christmas we end up getting a new goalkeeper... When you said clever, I thought you meant got about eight goalkeepers or something. No, no, whatever you've got to do to get a goalkeeper. Sell a hotel to yourselves. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You do what you've got to do, yeah, it's creative. If we can somehow manage our already voluminous goalkeeping situation and bring in a quality keeper, like genuinely, non-negotiably good, not somebody where there's any jeopardy, just somebody who we know is proven Premier League quality.

32:12Haven't you got nine, Rory? Seven, seven. Seven? Only seven. Only seven. I think you can only play one. No, but they're not... No, I agree. Nobody's good enough, you know? They're just not good enough. And sometimes, I think, and shows like this are great for it, you know, like demonstrating the more cryptic side of football, like going deep and analysing the stats and whatever else. Sometimes it's a really easy game, isn't it? And sometimes you just go, can you realistically win a league with Robert Sanchez as your goalkeeper? Give us a name of a keeper then. Kelleher? I mean, it would be wild from Liverpool.

32:44Absolutely not. I mean, Chelsea have strengthened rivals. No, I know. Liverpool are very well run and I doubt they would do that. but there was a time a decade or so ago when I genuinely believed that Arsenal would win a league if they had a good goalkeeper. We sold them check. We facilitated that for them and ultimately they bottled it again. But I thought... What you just said then is when I think of teams who win the title, a goalkeeper is such a big... You think of where to start with United. We all talk about Cantona, but Schmeichel was just a massive... Liverpool teams I played in, we never had a keeper who was on the level of sort of a Schmeichel or a Van der Sar there or a Czech, Liverpool get Alisson.

33:24Yeah. You win the league. And that's my thing. I just can't, even how well Chelsea are playing, I think they've been so impressive this season, the attacking players, players off the bench. I just can't picture that. Exactly. The goalkeeper lifting. It doesn't happen. And also the centre-backs. I don't think of that one, the John Terry figure, the, you know, the Vidic or the Ferdinand figure, and the Van Dijk figure, the Ruben Diaz. I just don't see one of them at Chelsea. Did you see Wes Morgan at Leicester, though? I know that's the one. It was such an anomaly, though, wasn't it? It was such an anomaly.

33:57Maybe it is that. They won 77 points, though, didn't they? He did also have Casper Schmeichel, who was very, very... Yeah, but that's the thing where I still think of Arsenal, even though you use it in such better form. The football you're playing, the goals you're scoring. I just keep thinking of what Arsenal did the second half of last season and thinking, as Scoles, he just said then, I'm almost waiting for that to come back at some stage. If we were to win the league this year with Robert Sanchez, it would be making history. We would be the first team to win the Premier League with a distinctly average goalkeeper.

34:25Like, nobody's done that. Schmeichel was mentioned there, and I thought Kasper Schmeichel, Kasper, sorry, Kasper Schmeichel, he is probably, him or Jens Lehmann, perhaps the worst goalkeeper to have ever been number one for a team that wins the league, and they were both fantastic. So that's the level that you have to be to be a goalkeeper that ultimately wins a Premier League. and Robert Sanchez is just a million miles from that. So if we're clever, and look, you do mention the centre-half issue, that's, you know, if I could have two presidents. Well, you can have two, go on. We'll have a centre-half as well then, why not?

34:56Yeah, it's my lucky day. We'll have a centre-half as well. Because I just think that we could do... I think Levi Colwell will be a very good player. He's good, he's the one that you'd nail your... Do you know what I feel like both of our centre-halves are? You know the way that... When, say, Gary Cahill was playing with John Terry, Gary Cahill looked a far better player than when he played without John Teper. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What we have is two Gary Cahills. Both very good, both very capable. They need to play with the... But if the timing was slightly different, if it was Levi Colwell and Thiago Silva, all of a sudden the back line elevates to a totally different degree.

35:38Baz, you must want a lot for Christmas, come on. Always want a lot. A win. A win will do. One eight games in a year. New owners. One eight games. No, but listen, the new owners are coming in this week, which is good. Obviously, that'll calm a lot of things because there's been so much uncertainty. They're not always great, as Southwood have put. They're not always great, but obviously we've had uncertainty for over two years now and that's not good for anybody. So that's obviously better, the ground and all that. But you'll start winning games of football. You know, we've won eight games in a year.

36:15Eight. Having Liverpool won 12 or something this season, we've won eight in a year. So, clearly winning more games of football is what I'm looking for. And a white Christmas, that'd be nice. What's the feeling right now with the manager? Is there a feeling that you respect the job that he's done, but going into a new stadium, it feels to me, only where I maybe see you or social media, there's a feeling that you want a fresh start when you go to a new stadium. Is that fair on Sean Dyche? I think, listen, he's obviously come into the club at a difficult time. It doesn't matter whether you like him or you dislike him.

36:48You can't say he's had an easy time. But the thing that annoys me, we got 48 points last season. Forget the points, the Dutchman's finale won 48 points last season, which put them above Brighton and Brentford and Fulham and all of these clubs. And yet, Forrest. And I've heard any of those clubs talk about relegation. And on day one, he was talking about being in a relegation fight. and he then bemoaned selling Amadou O 'Nanour if he didn't play. No, he wanted to sell him, he didn't like him. Oh, exactly, he didn't like him, he didn't play, but then he moaned up, you know what I mean? It's that kind of thing of almost engineering that back in so I can achieve what my goal is kind of thing.

37:25I don't really like that. So I think where I am with it is I personally just expect the new owners to replace them soon anyway because that's everywhere throughout history when new owners go into a building, they want to put their own mark on it. So therefore, that's what I think about. You know when you talk about the manager as well, but obviously the sporting directors, Kevin Thelwell. Kevin Thelwell, yeah. You know what I think about Sean Dyche in Everton, from when he came in, any player he's bought virtually, they're still not really in his first 11. Maybe Ndiye this season, but if you go, Pickford was there before he'd come.

38:03The left-back, Mikhelenko, was there. Branswight was there. Tarkovsky was there. Dwight McNeil was there. Calvallum was there. Corey was there was Guy there or Guy had been there before no no Guy was there Guy was there Michael Keane was already there but they they haven't spent loads you've bought a lot of players he's had I think he's had there's about 5 or 6 players about 15 to 20 million they don't they don't play no well it was like that was the frustration again of the summer we spent 15 million on O 'Brien but he didn't get near it but the strike at Chimiti 15 to 30 million on Beto it's like Chimiti was 12 but I have to I have to put this sorry I missed No, no, got it around by three million.

38:39It's not you. Well, no, it's important, but Stephen Warner, I don't know whether he can add up or not, was making all kinds of numbers up, apparently. So Beto was 26, Timmiti was 12. However, the point still stands, doesn't it? Timmiti's one who I think they think will be denied. They have massive hopes for him at the club. He's played about four games. No, I know, but he's a young player, I'm saying. That's what the hope he develops into. Beto, they got, basically, let's have it right, they got him because they could get him for nothing, basically. We'll pay you next year. and when there's no money you get what you can but it hasn't worked and there's too many of them where you go yeah we've spent money and not big amounts but you know we'd have just put that to some pace because there's no pace on the side it's like you could have got someone who can run everybody else has got you see teams roll up and they've got one or two this squad though I will say and I've said it all along this squad is good enough to be half way up not are you but half way up shouldn't be only have won three games of football this season it shouldn't have done and yet when you Saturday was the perfect game for Sean Dyke because that's his MO, that's what he's good at, we'll defend and he defended brilliantly, that's what he needs a pat on the back for.

39:45I think people's issues is how long do you stay in a ball mentality for? There's a lot of teams in this league where if you go after them you beat them and we don't, we always don't want the ball and I think that's people's frustration, not so much has he had a difficult time because he has had that, it's been difficult, it's been uncertainty but there's a time we have to go, we have to move forward and we can't keep putting ourselves back to day one of wartime mentality his first thought is always let's not get beat yeah I think he'd take 38-0-0 if it was offered for and you'd be safe but I do and that's not a bad thing he can't expect him if he's done that all his career expecting him to play like Aussie R.D.

40:22years ago with nine up front and one up the back you know what I mean it's not going to happen so getting frustrated with that doesn't really change anything that's just where it was but I actually think these have had four managers already this season at Roma so I think they'll come in and go we actually want to move things on and I think that's what will happen and everything else Dave, the Wolves fan have you had your Christmas present with the new manager coming in Pereira who's been announced similar to Baz to be fair a win would be nice but Premier League survival for us is key the manager's an interesting one don't know a hell of a lot about him got an interesting CV been here and there sorry can I just jump in is he the guy who yeah he went on Sky's World he's the guy who gave a car crash of an interview and talked himself out the evidence And you all went on your TV channel and made sure he never got the job.

41:08I didn't. I didn't. The fella only done an interview. Oh, there was a lot of fallout from it, yeah. But he also likes wearing the captain's armband, honestly. Yeah, no, I listened to that on the way up because I thought, it was a couple of years ago now, but I remember the Everton fans had graffitied Pereira out and Lampard in. Pereira out? He wasn't even in. The interview was strange, really strange, almost to sell himself. But look, he's had a lot of success, but that was almost 10 years ago. He's won league titles in Portugal, Greece, Turkey. But I think defensively, he's a lot better in terms of structure in a team than what Gary O 'Neill has been this season.

41:46It's been an absolute disaster defensively with set pieces in particular. You see the numbers of goals that we've conceded. Saturday again, Ipswich had to win that game. We were poor for 75 minutes, get ourselves back in the game, then what, 93rd minute concede another corner. And when your head coach is in the interview after throwing his players under the bus almost for not listening to his instructions. It's going to only end one way, really. But the last time I was on here, it was the last international break. He could have gone then. So he survived a hell of a lot longer than I expected him to, to be honest.

42:16But I think with the way the club are structuring things at the moment, financially, with transfers, there's a lot of big managers that turn the job down. So they've almost had to wait for the right man, well, right man, I say, to take the job. But probably not the standard the manager Wolves would have wanted. But it's going to be interesting to see how it goes. I think he's either going to go very well, keep us up, or it's going to be an absolute disaster and we struggle to buy a win for the rest of the season. No matter who the manager is, though, you're going to have to buy in January, isn't it?

42:41I mean, we looked at the players that you lost over the last sort of 18 months. It's off the scale. Some of the players you've lost, if you'd have kept them players together, it's a mid-table Premier League team, that. You know, you look at some of the players that you've got. And I don't think... I think it was always going to be tough for Gary. Of course, you lose it alone to Ripswich. You've got to probably be in trouble if you're in the bottom three. but is he going to have to really reinvest in January? Because that's not something I think a coach comes in and fixes easy. No, no, of course.

43:08I think defenders are the main one as well. They tried to be quite clever. Obviously, Kilman was moved on, but then we had Muscara come back from a loan spell and they thought, oh, straight swap. He does his ACL, he's out for the season. The issue with Gary O 'Neill really as well is that he's had a few injuries and suspensions of the back line, but he keeps chopping and changing it all the time. Under Nuno, years ago, if he had his back free and he would stick to it, If someone dropped a stink, he'd still be in for the next game. We had that stability. Whereas Gary O 'Neill, if a player has a poor game, he's dropped.

43:36And then three weeks later, when another defender has a poor game, another one's in. There's no stability with that whatsoever. But January, you've got to hope. And it's such a tough window. I think last January was really, really tricky. But someone has got to be ready 1st of January. I know it's not as easy as that, but Wolves can't be scattered around at the end of the transfer window looking to bring players in. It's got to be now. And defender and hopefully one or two other players. but I think the squad that we've got there now is more than capable of staying in the Premier League it's just up to this new guy now and hopefully we can kick off with three points at the weekend Greg Forrest you're happy with what you've got do you need anything?

44:10Yeah, I mean Christmas came early won at Anfield, won at Old Trafford you haven't mentioned that everything we want and it sounds like a lot of these want some of our players as well we've got one of the best full-backs in the league strikers just doing unbelievable but for me it's more long-term we need to redevelop the city ground. It's been talked about for years now. Plans seem to be getting closer. What part of the ground are you talking about? The Peter Taylor stand, yeah, you know the A block well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The lively in there, aren't they? Yeah, it's good. Always welcome. You're always welcome to come back.

44:46But, yeah, it's been close. We've seen the plans for so many years now. The old chairman's come back in, I'm hoping that's a good sign. And just get it redeveloped. We call it the world-famous city ground and make it world famous and ready for potential European football. So it's not about buying players anymore? Has that all stopped now? Well, I mean, we've done it well, haven't we? Well, I mean, exactly. I think last season you were delighted that you broke the rules, weren't you? And, you know, you bought all those players. Even more so now, it's been proven. More teams should maybe follow that lead rather than your Sheffield United, Southampton's teams like that that, you know, maybe it is the blueprint.

45:25But for me, it's just keep what we've got. Definitely keep what we've got in January. We potentially do still need a striker. I mean, we could get a Marcus Rashford or someone like that. Everybody wants a striker, don't they? Yeah, well, we certainly don't need one. It'd just be a nice city for us. Like I say, Ola Reina's probably the best free transfer we've ever had. I like him. He's arguably one of the best free. Yeah, he's fantastic. He plays left and right. It doesn't matter which side, just unbelievable this season. And the two centre-halves have made a big difference, haven't they? Oh, Milankovic.

45:59Yeah. Murillo's just destined for such a big career. But bringing in Milankovic again, one of the signings of the season, and they're just unstoppable. And then if one of them gets injured like they did on Saturday, you've got Moretta and players like that to come in. We've got the strength. We've built this Premier League-ready squad now. and it's just fining it up a little bit and seeing where we can go because we keep getting told that we're in a false position but we keep proving people wrong. Dan, Crystal Palace, are you not asking for as much right now for Christmas because it's turned round a little bit?

46:37I would just take a cup because we are, I think, alongside Fulham, probably the biggest club in this country so we've never won one and I know that's obviously a lofty ambition, you don't necessarily expect it but we've been in two FA Cup finals, took United to a replay in 1990, got a manager now in Oliver Glasner that's won the Europa League and I don't think the team is a team that should be around the bottom three. I know we have been until the last couple of weeks but yeah, it would be great. I mean, we've got Arsenal this coming Wednesday taking 6 ,000 to the Emirates. If we can get through that, we're into a semi.

47:12We've got Stockport in the FA Cup, get a favourable one there. I think he's the sort of manager that would attack it which we haven't had. Roy Hodgson was the definition of what Baz said about Sean Dyche. 38-0-0, he would have been happy. With that, the cup competitions were never really something that he took seriously. I think if we can really make an impression in a new year on those two cups and try to get to a final and finally win one, it would be huge. Are you still honed to the bit by that Alan Pardew dance? When I was in the ground, I didn't realise it had happened, obviously. You do your own dance.

47:45Well, exactly. And then, yeah, afterwards, everyone's just going about Alan Pardew and I'm just still devastated about the two goals. But, yeah, it's one of those... I mean, I wasn't old enough in 1990, but it's something that Palace fans talk about all the time still. And if we were able to get over the line, even if it was just a League Cup, I know it gets sort of explained away by elite clubs, but if we were able to get one, it would just be massive.

48:13Right, we're going to finish one with Scalzi. so are you aware what this question is have you got it off your sleeves it's very hard Adam's going to help me here I think ok I've not asked him yet he hasn't got a clue the six best goals that have ever been scored on a football pitch that you've been on yeah it's very difficult yours against Villa at Villa Park is definitely up there I won't count in mine I'll tuck that one in then alright yeah I could have had six of them actually what about why what about why I've got three that stand out.

48:49And probably Ruud van Nistelroen against Fulham. What about, you remember his goal against Basel? I always think that was better, you know. Better than against Fulham? I know what you're saying. But from the angle where he's kind of taken it in. Yeah, no, that was a great goal, yeah, but Fulham. They must have had better goals than that. Yeah, yeah. The Fulham one. Anyway, he beats four or five people and finishes. He's done a great thing. You remember it, weren't you? David Beckham. Wimbledon. And I think probably the greatest ever United goal was Ryan Giggs in the semi-final. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

49:22Were you playing against Newcastle when Wazer scored the volley? No. That was a great goal. Yeah, that was a great goal, yeah. Help me, I need three more. That one's great. I think some Liverpool, Stephen must have smashed one in. Didn't you score one? John Anarisa. Oh, you said it was even the opposite. No, I guess. Oh, that's what I'm talking about, yeah, yeah. You scored a blinder at Bradford. Is that right? Yeah, volley. do you know when I got this question I was thinking of other goals I weren't really thinking of my goals yeah but if your goal is one of them then that's fair enough as well yeah I'm just trying that Bradford goal is sensational was you there when Rooney scored the overhead kick were you playing that yeah yeah Rooney's overhead kick against City yeah against City there was a goal at Charlton Rooney did an incredible incredible dribble and he flicked it back to Rooney chested it away from goal that was a brilliant goal brilliant centre forwards goal but they must I think they're playing against Real Madrid and Barcelona and I think you were getting to pass it Rivaldo's over a kick oh yeah in the 3-3 in the 3-3 yeah I think Figo scored a great goal what's the one with Andy Cole and Dwight Jocker playing 1-2 yeah oh yeah Dwight Jocker I don't know what that was yeah sorry there was also not just one goal but Brazilian Ronaldo was a trick at Old Trafford oh yeah Although Bartez...

50:44Yeah, yeah. Could have had a goal. Yeah, Redondo did Henningberg, didn't he, on the line, yeah. I don't know why. Beckham had a good... Oh, Cantona against Arsenal was good. The Cantona chip. Sheffield United? No at all. Sunderland. Oh, Sunderland. I didn't play Sheffield United, yeah. Oh, that was some goal. Beckham had a few. There was a chip at West Ham when he just first touched. Just lobbed it over the keeper. Yeah, played in that game. And Deportivo La Coruña as well. Did he play at West Ham and the Unish go from the half-fielder? No. The goalie made a lot of rubbish. Yeah, I didn't play in that game.

51:18Any England ones? England. Joe Cole? No, he's fucking shite.

51:26Joe Cole was against Sweden. Yeah, Joe Cole against Sweden. I played in that game. Yeah, right back. Remember Zidane's free kick? Oh, France, yeah. The ball gets stuck in the net, doesn't it? That kind of spins in the net. JMO, yeah. Gerrard putting him free on goal.

51:45so we've locked in the six so we've gone no I don't think we did that's 25 I've locked in three Scolsy Villa Ruud Fulham Beckham Wimbledon yeah Giggs the Arsenal Rooney the overhead kid Rooney yeah that's five oh Rooney did you say Rivaldo why is it six top five six just sounds a bit like you're just doing it for the sake super six super six oh super six fair enough Real Madrid then. You said Real Madrid, all the goals, Ronaldo. Yeah, Ronaldo. Ah, nah, greatest striker ever. I must have forgot some good goals. Probably some of your own? Yeah. Well, that's it for another episode of The Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet and hope you have a lovely Christmas and a Happy New Year.

52:33Go to earth, to earth, to earth. What do I want to laugh? LAUGHTER God bless.