Poch to Chelsea? Spurs Job, United & Liverpool Ownership, Relegation & Top 4 | Fan Debate Part 2

0:04Hello and welcome back to the Overlap Live Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet. after a humiliating 6-1 defeat. Tottenham had to get rid of their manager, Christian Stellini. Ryan Mason was on the touch side against United, and I talked to him, what did Tottenham need to do to get their managerial situation sorted? I've been defending, obviously, Daniel Levy for quite a few years. I've actually said that he's one of the best operators in football. Is that going to come up on the crimes against Punditry? No, because I actually think he obviously is running. probably a large part of the club correctly, but he's never let go, really, has he, of the football side?

0:43He's never dealt with that. It's a little bit similar to, say, Ed Woodward at Manchester United, who was basically driving record revenues, record profits on the business side. He's a finance guy, not a football guy. But on the actual football side, they wanted to play football manager, they wanted to be in charge of that side. So I think now, obviously, what's happened... I'm really surprised that they took that 10 days to lose Conte after that interview and then came up with Stellini. I was like you might as well stick with content at the end of the season and say I'll not speak to you just get on with it manage the club because that's your job or bring in someone that would deal with it to the end of the season Chelsea have had a similar problem with obviously bringing Frank in I've seen it myself I went in at Valencia to try and steady the ship for the last four months because you try it doesn't work Ranier at Man United there's a lot of examples now of where you think you can just put someone into the end of the season thinking that he'll just basically sail the ship to shore and it's not working in fact it exacerbates the situation and makes it a lot worse.

1:36And it's looked terrible in the last few weeks. I think Ryan Mason is just probably, because of his association with the club and obviously the fact he's not a Conte man really, probably makes it better. You saw a response from Spurs in the second half. Have you ever been in a situation where a manager's got a number two's come in and from the dressing room, do they get the same level of respect, especially if they're just implementing the same ideologies and school of thought as the previous Gath? We had a number two for six months, managers. We had Phil Thompson come in on the back of Gerard Houllier.

2:12He had a heart attack in the middle of a game. So we had Phil Thompson for probably half a season. It didn't really affect us. We kept going. We had a strong title chase at that stage up against Arsenal in 2002. So it didn't change too much. And you're saying, oh, you're just doing the same thing. But I think in some ways that's what Tottenham have wanted to keep doing. And listen, Daniel Levy's made some really poor appointments of late, but I actually think on this one, I think it's more reading between the lines has come from the director of football who was in situ then, Paratici, who's almost probably said, Conte's press conference, you know, it's untenable maybe.

2:50You know, Daniel Levy's felt that, and he's probably said, well, I'm going, we are fourth in the league. If we beat Southampton, we would have been third. So this guy knows how Conte works. We keep the same system. We do the same sort of things. This is probably the way to go. So I actually think Daniel Levy's probably looking at the situation thinking, I wish I'd have probably just done what I wanted to do. Myself, maybe bring someone else in new to the end of the season. Obviously, that's Ryan Mason right now. But I'm not trying to let Daniel Levy off the hook there, because you think of the appointments of even Jose, Conte, Nuno coming in.

3:21This is all on the back, I think, of when he put Jose in originally, him coming out with a statement saying, we want to get back to the values of Tottenham, how the game's played, being an attacking team or coach. And we always say that's the Tottenham way, you know, I've got to play great football. I always remember that when I was a kid. But right now, that's everybody's way. That's everyone's way at the top level, how teams want to play. So to then go and appoint Nuno, then appoint Conte and find himself in a situation where he's still in, it just didn't look right. When you're looking at him on the side of the pitch, when you're listening to him in interviews, we're in studios watching that and we're shaking our heads looking at it because we're putting ourselves back in the dressing room and thinking, what are the players thinking when you're watching him do an interview?

4:05What's he going to be like on the training pitch trying to get his message across? And it just never felt right. So we don't know who's chosen that decision. But as I said, I think it probably has a bit to do with the director of football and they've just got to try and get on until the end of the season. Now, are they going to bring someone else? Who can you bring in right now? They're obviously still trying to get a manager for next season, not right now. On Stalini, though, He wouldn't want to be there. Because the last thing he wants to do is look like he's being disloyal to Conte, who he's serving.

4:33So actually, they forced him to stay. He wouldn't want to be there. He wanted out. It was really badly handled, that sort of Conte situation. It was coming for months. A bit like Jose situation at United. These situations don't just happen overnight. You can just simmer along. And I think that to deal with it in the way in which they did was really poor. There was a period where Conte was away. Yeah, we saw that. And you saw the results. You saw us beat West Ham. at home, Chelsea, Man City, the all-conquering Man City, we beat them at home under Stellini. So you could see there was some sort of logic in keeping him in place, but it was clear as soon as Conte was gone that it was all falling apart, not more so than Newcastle, where he decided to play a back four with two defenders and Porro and Perisic as full-backs, which is, when I saw that, I was like, this is going to be a disaster, but if we concede less than three, we've done really well and you saw us concede five in 20 minutes.

5:22So there's that. But in terms of what I want, obviously, I want Pochettino back because why is that funny? Because he's going to Chelsea. Who would you want? My question was who do I want? He's not a job, that's who I want. If he's going to Chelsea, then what's being rumoured is... Who's realistic? Nagelsmann is realistic for Tottenham, not Spur. Vinton Company is in the mix? I love Vinton Company. I love the way he conducts himself in interviews. He comes across as a leader, someone who would take responsibility if things are not going wrong. if things are going wrong. But you've had some of the best managers in World Football and you seem to just ruin their reputations every time.

6:03So what... I'm being serious. What manager actually thinks, OK, I could go in and actually do a really good job? Yeah, probably a deluded one. It's a tough job. But the fact is Tottenham are a massive draw to these managers. The fact that we're even in a position... I'm very much moving towards a place where Daniel Levy needs to step back or sell up. Not that that's going to happen, but what got us to this point is large parts of the great work he's done previously, right? Not where we are now, but what we've done previously. So that we can attract managers like Pochettino, like Jose Mourinho, Conte, and now Nagelsmann.

6:39Most of the people in this room don't want Martin Nagelsmann to come to Tottenham. They don't understand that. They don't understand how a club like Spurs could attract one of the brightest managers in Europe. But it could happen, could well happen. So Nagelsmann and Rannick as a director of football. Let's talk about Tottenham's type of manager. and the managers you've mentioned, you've said they've ruined their reputation. But I was talking before about them not being the right fit in terms of maybe how they play football. But Tottenham have got to look at probably Liverpool and Arsenal and how they've gone about challenging.

7:10Those teams have sort of been built through Klopp each year getting better. Arsenal under Arteta four or five years. Think of what Pochettino done. Jose Mourinho and Conte have to win right now. Tottenham are not a club who can win right now. it's got to be a building process and they get closer each year and they're improving so when you talk about what type of manager they need there's talk of you know vincent company whether he could be that man who knows he may go on to be a great manager i think it's far too early for him in terms of talking like this and the reason i say that i look at sort of two managers who sort of steven gerrard and frank lampard who are two of the best players we've seen in the premier league here vincent company is the same there's almost this rush and before we go any further i I know Guardiola goes against the green.

7:54I get that. But there's almost like this rush to get these top players into these big jobs. I don't know if it'll be too early for company for the Tottenham, but what's this rush? Let them build his CV, his experience, his ups and downs. It didn't go that well in Belgium for them, to be honest. Burnley's been amazing. I just think for managers, there's no rush to get these big-name footballers in at the top. Because once it doesn't go well there, where do you go from there? The building process for a young manager is to eventually be there competing year in, year out for trophies, the Champions League.

8:29I think we've just got to be careful with these top players being desperate, you know, as a media, as a fan base, to go, right, we want this manager in there. I think it'd be far too early for Vince and company. You say that, but then Arsenal's, was his first head coaching role, managerial role for Arteta, where he'd only ever been a number two to Pep. Does it also, I guess, how important is the character of the player? Because you know some players, they look at it and you go, he's going to be a manager. Or you listen to the kind of tactical nous that Arteta has, and you listen to the player speak about it, and he goes, he was always going to be a manager.

9:02He was always a student at the game. Arteta would have got sacked at a lot of clubs. Yeah. Any other big six club, he would have got sacked. Their own fans wanted him sacked. So you probably wanted him sacked early on. LAUGHTER

9:19But what's attractive, about what Arteta's done at Arsenal, from a Spurs perspective, is the fact that it's a project and it isn't Jose Mourinho and it isn't Conte. It's something the club can build and move organically forward and become, hopefully, a more successful club. Will Daniel Levy and will the Spurs fan give a potential manager who has to build the time that they need? I hear this all the time and I'm not having it. This thing about every manager should be given time. Let's not be naive about this. It's not happening. for anyone and you only say Arteta could have lost his job but what Arteta did in that first six months bore some time he won big games he won the FA Cup not just by getting an easy run he beat Chelsea in the final he beat Man City in the semi-final I think he beat Liverpool who obviously that was the best club team around that era he won big games he bore some self-time with that FA Cup so the season after it doesn't go well he's got that in the bank behind it so this idea that any manager he's got to be given four years let him get on with a job, it's wrong.

10:22You want to be seeing progress for sure. You've got to see something. You've got to buy into something. It's the same with Pochettino. It wasn't an immediate success but you could see, it was like when Arsenal lost to Man City. Rodri scored that goal late on and Arsenal fans were singing from the rooftops and the Spurs haven't lost while he's singing but they saw what the future might hold and how they beat Manchester, how they lost but performed valiantly and actually controlled a lot of the game. If you can see a direction and see a plan in place, then you're much more comfortable as a fan. What we had at Spurs for too long and Daniel Levy is directly responsible for this is a rudderless operation where it just feels like we don't know where we're going.

10:57I'm amazed at Daniel Levy in his appointments of Jose, Nuno and Conte. I mean maybe try it once because I think you could say okay I've got a desperation, we've got the new stadium, we need to get into the Champions League, there's a financial need that we must have a manager who we know can deliver but he'd seen what had happened with Jose at Manchester United, this wasn't going to be a shock to him. you know Conte is exactly the same Nuno's football at Wolves I think Nuno's a good coach but I think ultimately you knew the football was not going to be a level up from Jose's football I'm really surprised at his last three managerial appointments in terms of fit just all unlikely marriages that you just know are going to end up in tears and divorce so from that point of view I'm struggling to understand what's happened in the last three or four years I can only think it's the desperation behind the scenes of the finances the debt repayments and maybe the big owner, Joe Louis, saying you need to qualify for Champions League because that financial drop between Champions League and Europa League is huge.

11:53And obviously Tottenham are not going to make it potentially this year. I don't agree with that. So why has he appointed those three coaches then? What's happened to Daniel Levy? Daniel Levy is either going to pass the buck to Perattici for hiring Conte, but ultimately it is Daniel Levy's responsibility. He's structured the debt so that it isn't as significant as people might think. that stadium repayments are manageable and it isn't going to be reliant on Champions League football. That's widely reported. It will have a knock-on effect on your transfers and stuff. Yeah, but you're talking like£20 million a season.

12:23Just for a go-kart track under the stadium, we're talking about fire.

12:32This is a great point. What he's best at is that commercial aspect. He's a great off-the-pitch operator. And he's not allowed to do that. What he's done with his stake in the training ground is incredible. Do you think getting to the Champions League final, do you think he looked at that and thought that's the beginning rather than the end? Because in reality, that was the peak of that side. But if you get there, there's a little delusion that comes with it and goes, if we can just get a manager who's a bit more experienced, he'll be able to take that group of players and take them that one step further.

13:00That was the idea with Jose. He just thought, can Potch or these players get over the line? Not necessarily the Champions League, but in a cup final. That team needed to win something, didn't he? We have to be real and say Spurs are a massively attractive football club. They attract Beyonce to perform. My mum's going. She's going to love it. She's saying fantastic. On a sporting level, Pochettino needed 250 million quid spent after that Champions League final. And Spurs, as a footballing operation, a massive football club, didn't respect Pochettino. Didn't respect the football aspect of the football club enough.

13:31It's an entertainment product, Spurs. That's the issue. And they thought that they could just bring a winning manager in to get them over the line. But they actually forgot that Potts got them to the line. But Conte as well. Bruno ain't getting them there. But do it the second time with Conte. It's the second mistake, really. It's Nuno and then Conte. I think Jose maybe he's right once. But then United, for fair. You can understand the logic. For fair to United, when everyone was clamouring for Conte. Yeah. Right? And they'd had Jose. The club held strong and said, no, we can't have that again.

13:57Because we know what's going to happen. So, to be fair, they held. I can't believe Daniel Levy has gone down that route again. Yeah, well, he's definitely. I mean, it was a mistake. But is there a bit of a way, all of a sudden, Conte's answering phone calls. and they're like, oh, Conte wants to speak to me. I think there is an element of that. So we can get Antonio Conte, who's won everywhere. To your point, we break managers, right? Really good ones. And that's what's happened previously. But there's no way of... When we got Jose Mourinho, I was like... Can I rephrase that? I think managers break you as well.

14:26All right. Because, honestly, I think what... No, no, no. You broke it in the... No, no. Seriously. Because I think what Jose and... I've said this about Rafa Benitez a couple of times. What Jose and Conte do, they turn everyone on each other. Absolutely. And they end up breaking your culture, your club as well. So for me, don't just think that we destroy managers. Those managers are capable, in the power that they have with the media, to destroy your club as well. So I think Spurs is a great club. What Levy's done with the stadium and the training ground means that you're set up for a great manager to come in.

14:55Has Nagelsmann turned down Chelsea with the fact that he would prefer to manage Tottenham? Has that happened? Because I think Chelsea went for Nagelsmann now. I don't think so. Nagelsmann pulled out of the race because he wasn't finished. Yeah, but I don't think he would have. I think he got the vibes that it looked like poverty. They made him come in three times and he said, you know what, I'm done. I can't see him saying, you know what, I'd rather go to Spurs. I don't think that's what I think. Well, I mean, why not? Why not? Look at the state of your football team. No, I know we're a state and we'll get into that in a minute.

15:27We're not talking about us yet. Yeah, just let me breathe. There's obviously massive dissent at the moment around, obviously, Enoch and Daniel Levy. Yeah, seriously. So in terms of that, is it a case of now it's an absolute majority of the football club want the ownership to change? So on my podcast, The Fighting Cup, we put a poll out, right? We've got a sizeable response on it. And it was one in four wanted Enoch to, or Daniel Levy, two different things, but to be removed. One in four? One in four wanted him to stay. Okay, so it's 75 % wanting him out. On Twitter, which is an absolutely representative of Match Day going fans.

16:02So yesterday you heard them singing, Don't leave me, get out of my club. It probably was, I don't know, it sounded like maybe half the stadium, it was difficult to tell, but it's so much more significant than it was a year ago. And there are movements, it's very sporadic, and there needs to be a bit more organisation online about how the pressure is put on the club. But there are movements springing up around social media that are trying to force this in. I mean, Gary will teach you how to lead one. I mean, that's probably... Someone's got to come up with£5 billion, though, so that's the key. How long has he been there?

16:3520 years. 20 years. So, our situation and your situation are very different. Apparently, he's valuing what he would want from the club. That's not their market value, I understand that. Five billion? Five billion, he's... That's Chelsea money, which brings us on nicely to... Flav, I would love to speak about this all day. It's one of my favourite subjects. Brilliant. We actually have to go... My second favourite subject, which is Chelsea. Don't be too horrible to me. But we're going to talk managers, because you both know the manager very, very well. Pochettino, right man for the job. Yes or no?

17:07I would say yes. I don't think there's any other option. I think he did well at Spurs. I think he's probably been your most successful manager, I would say. In our history or the last 10 years? Well, I think you just sacked him too early, in my opinion. But I don't think there's anybody else. But our problems go way beyond what manager we are or we're not going to have. I mean, Todd came in. I appreciate the fact that he's present, that he's making an effort, that he's willing to spend the money. I get all that. But I don't think there's any difference between a manager, or sorry, an owner that wants to spend money and doesn't know how to spend it and one that doesn't want to spend any money.

17:44I don't really see the difference there. I think his ambition has turned more into arrogance, in my opinion. I think he came in, he made himself interim managing director or one of the directors. He doesn't know anything about English football. He's inexperienced. He's uneducated on it. Especially the Premier League, it's so competitive. You know, you can't really afford to have yourself making these poor decisions. We had 11 first-game injuries at one point. He sacked the medical staff. I don't think that's a coincidence. I think that's, again, another poor decision he made. Sacking Tuchel for Potter.

18:17Whether you think Tuchel was the right manager or not isn't really relevant. He gave Potter a five-year contract who has no experience in managing a top-four side. And then aside from that, we've got players on the pitch that are underperforming due to lack of confidence, lack of motivation, poorly coached, I also believe that's the case. And then we spend£500 million and we don't buy any prolific strikers. So what have I missed? I made my notes for this show. I was like, what have I missed? Just a minute, I agree it's been an absolute mess. It's been a shambles from day one. It's just erratic.

18:51And the first overlap of the season, I said he's like football manager. I called him Todd Woodward because it just reminded me of when... I can apologise to you now for that because I didn't want to judge him before he had a full season and I've seen what he's done now and it's... The signs were there, weren't they? Announcing that he was sporting director, doing what Ed did, to be fair, 10 years ago when he came off that tour. I think it was Australia or America where he said he was going to go back and sign Bale and someone else. Fabregas. You just don't announce things like that. So it's been a mess from day one.

19:22Obviously, there's stories around him appearing in the dressing room after games, which obviously Tuchel didn't like, obviously Potter doesn't like, no manager likes that. Would you have liked that as a player, though? So, believe it or not, at Manchester United, for 20 years I played there, the owners of the club, not the owners, the executive, the board of the club, come into the dressing room after every game. Really? OK. Every game, when Sir Alex was there. He invited them in. It was always after the team talk. It was always to shake Sir Alex's hand and the player's hand, say well done or commiserations, the odd time we lost a game.

19:51and basically that happened for 20 years. So it's part of actually what we understood. They never once commented on performance. They never once addressed the players. They never once spoke about anything to do with tactics. It was just purely to keep the club together from top to bottom. That's what happened at the club. So it's not unusual that an owner goes into a dressing room or an executive goes into it. I think Sam Hamann used to do it at Wimbledon all those years ago, if you remember. So it's not unusual. But if he's contributing to the chat in the dressing room and talking and overstepping the mark, it's a massive problem.

20:20So I think what I would say is that, yeah, it's been a mess. But the game against Liverpool a few weeks ago, I think, did you do the game with me? And Chelsea played that game. And I thought there was something in that game that you saw in a collection of players that you thought, if they could be brought together by a talented coach, and Pochettino, I think, is a really talented coach. I think that Chelsea next year could really surprise us just through Pochettino bringing the club together, because he will, because he's likeable, and the players will respect him enormously. he's played worked at PSG worked with big players worked at Tottenham worked at Southampton done a great job I think he'll do a very very good job next season and he'll cover a lot of the stuff that's going up on behind the scenes he's my prediction if you get him I think you'll have a very good season next year because those players are perfect for Pochettino talented young but just need direction yeah I think I wanted Pochettino at United that's not to say that I didn't want Eric Tenag because I think they were so close in terms of whether we got Pochettino or Tenag I'm I'm happy we've got Ten Hag.

21:13I think he's done brilliantly well, amazing. But Pochettino is a top coach. I would have been happy having it at my club. Yeah, I think... Sorry, Karen. Karen, would you agree that Pochettino is the right man for Chelsea? And can he deal with the backroom? Like, you know, can he deal with what's going on and the noise? Yeah, I mean, listen, he's been a top-runner. He's dealt with Daniel Levy, who's an owner. A poorer version of... No, but what I mean is he's somebody who probably we think does get involved in, you know, transfers and deals like that. He's been to PSG. I'm sure you've got a manager up there as well, some of the biggest players in world football.

21:53It's still... The idea behind Potter was, OK, I'm the new owner. I'm going to be different to Abramovich. I'm going to give this guy a five-year deal. We're going to play a certain style of football. We're going to do things a little bit differently. No, I'm not talking about the player. I'm talking about the manager. and Poch is not a serial winner like Chelsea have had in the past you know when you think right we're going to get Ancelotti we're going to get Jose, we're going to get Jose back we're going to get Conte, they're going to do a job for two years I still think this is the idea of we do want a manager for sort of three, four, five years and the hope of Pochettino can be that man whether he is that man to actually win them something big because that's what Chelsea fans are used to, this idea that Chelsea were going to be different now under the new owner it doesn't matter what the owner says those fans are used to having a winning culture a winning manager they don't fall in love with the manager because they knew the new one's coming in a year or two's time so there was no way Potter was going to last that so this idea that Pochettino will get three, four years he'll have to do something really special in the first couple of years and you're going up against Klopp, Pep obviously Arteta's been in the job longer at Arsenal, knows the club so it won't be easy I'm a massive admirer of Pochettino but I do think it's a real big test fund because this is the one where he can't fall back on there.

23:09It's Tottenham. We don't normally win. We don't have the finances of the other teams. I don't think as a Chelsea manager, you can fall back on that. Can I ask you a question, Kai, because I asked it on Twitter a few weeks ago. If you were Chelsea, the Chelsea group of players, the United group of players, currently in the Liverpool group of players, and all things equal, Chelsea get a fantastic manager next season. Which group, obviously, all clubs need to make additions. Chelsea need a striker. United need a striker. Obviously, Liverpool need players as well. which group of players do you think a manager would want to inherit if all things were equal to add to to start next season?

23:41I think Chelsea's group of players, honestly, I think Klopp or Ten Hag might look at Chelsea's group of players and think, a lot of them I like. I mean, we've got amazing players. I mean, Madrid, in my opinion, his first game, I think he came on for like 10 minutes at the end. That cameo against Liverpool. Yeah, against Liverpool Anfield and he was brilliant and I haven't really seen that from him since then. and I think that's because he's poorly coached. I think they've all got lack of confidence now. And also, Todd keeps talking about this big project, this big project, but we already were quite good.

24:12We're not Wrexham at the bottom of... We're not in the National League. It's a completely different ballgame and I think he almost was trying to fix something that wasn't really broken. We just needed a few additions. I'm pretty sure Tuchel even said, I need a few extra players here and there. Why are we sacking board members and medical staff and all these people that have been there for years who were running the club, you know, pretty well. I mean, you can tell that by the amount of trophies we had. Liverpool and City, we've said it on here, for the last sort of three or four years, haven't just been the two best teams in the league, probably the two best teams in Europe, the points totals they were getting.

24:44But Chelsea were comfortably third. It wasn't even like a fight with sort of Arsenal, Manchester United, really. Yous were definitely the next challenge. And we were winning trophies in between that time as well. Liverpool last season, two cup finals, had to go to penalty. So that shows how good Chelsea were. No, I don't agree with what you said. I didn't agree. I didn't say an answer. Which team of players, which group of players? Oh, sorry. Which group of players? I didn't give you an answer. You just go base level, I don't agree with. I don't agree with what you said. I was just a bad answer.

25:15Which group of players do you think you would like to take on next season and add to out of the current Manchester United League? Chelsea crop. Yeah, I mean, the money they spend, they're going to have top players there, but I think there's top players at all those clubs, and I think it could be, you know, one would say one, one would say another. Who do you think is the best squad out of those three that you'd like to take? Chelsea have got 30 players. How can it not be the best squad? You've got to make some sort of squad there. Without any strikers. The biggest thing about it, there'll be no togetherness there at all.

25:38How are they losing the games they're losing right now? There's no team feeling. There's no togetherness. There's a new manager coming in to sort it out. I think it'd take a lot of sorting out to create. To create what Klopp's created. To create what Terrain's created in this first season. Where there's a connection with the supporters. There's a togetherness with players. Potts could do that though. He can do that. I think Pochettino made Chelsea very competitive in that top four. He should do. Would you rather, as a player, say if you're in that Chelsea squad and you've just lost five in a row, would you rather, regardless of the connection with Frank Lampard, would you rather Pochettino, if you could get him in now to the end of the season and just, before you come in for pre-season, you've got no idea what's going on.

26:17Even when Chelsea were successful, they always chucked a manager under the bus. Those players, culturally, over 20 years, have been happy to not, to say, out of down tools. They've always downed tools at the end of a managerial. Always. It's terrible what's happened there. They've had some great success, but when they've had enough of a manager, those players, they get them out, and that's still there in the club because they're not even doing anything for Frank. They weren't doing anything for Potter at the end. They are taking the piss, basically. They're taking the piss. I think Mourinho's second spell, once he went, because the fans were all thinking, oh, he's going to be there long-term.

26:48Once he went, we sort of lost the idea of having a long-term manager, so I don't think it really bothers fans so much. When have you ever had a long-term manager? Well, I mean, no. That was what people were saying, yeah, we need longevity, like X, Y, Z, but it never happened. I don't think we do. I think that's real rare now. It's not rare. Since the last time. Tony Klopp and Pep. No, the successful clubs still have managers for four, five, six years. Arsenal, Liverpool and City. But that's not what we're used to in winning stuff. Arsenal, Liverpool and City have managers for a long time. Honestly, I was told this a few years ago, oh, you can never have a Sir Alex Ferguson anymore.

27:21I get that, 20-odd years. But when you've got a successful manager, a successful group, but you can have them for four, five, six years. You can't make Alex Ferguson like it was 20 years unimpeded. Yane's contract's along the way, doesn't he? It's not like he got a 20-year contract and then ran away with it. If you're going to compete for the league, because Chelsea, as a matter of fact, since the last time they won it was like 2016, they've not been nowhere near winning the league, despite all the money they've spent. I know they've won cups, but... Champions League. You've won Champions League, but you've been nowhere near...

27:52You're a cup team. You're nowhere near winning the league. no win there. Even to say, Gary's saying comfortably in third. The amount of money you spent, comfortably in third. Chelsea's supposed to be competing with City for the league. You spend more money. He turns it around in a year. 30 players. Chelsea need about three. Pochettino will have a massive improvement next year, Chelsea. He'll turn it around straight away. We do also need... Straight away, I'm Chelsea top four next season with Pochettino looking after those players with a striker. Liverpool back Newcastle and City Liverpool will be back next season we're going to get on to that but we've got to move it on to a team that is pushing for top four Manchester United are they going to do it pushing they're in for top four cemented almost ish ish you're right ish ish deadline for the third round of bids to take over the club is today I know this is a topic that is close to your heart, it causes you a lot of stress.

28:56Can you see the club being sold outright? Because you keep getting those drip feeds of information that's saying maybe they're going to sell a percentage or... Nothing's changed. I think there isn't a United fan that just basically wants to see the current ownership change. There isn't a United fan that I speak to now anywhere that doesn't think it's the right thing for them to move on. They have to move on, they have to leave the club. You know, you look at the stadium, not getting the... Not the final straw. The final straw had gone probably many years ago, but to not be one of the best ten stadiums in the UK and Ireland to be part of a bid to go for Old Trafford, they inherited the best stadium in the country, inherited the best training ground in the country that had just been built and the best football team in the country.

29:36We were the best in all classes when they inherited the club. We're now in all those three categories, nowhere near the top in the country. So they have overseen the demise and they have basically, we're shielded by Sir Alex Ferguson, we didn't know it at the time, some maybe did, but I didn't know it. They were shielded by Sir Alex Ferguson for the first ten years, and then basically now the true colours have come out. I actually, and I'm not going to bring Liverpool into it, I think Jurgen Klopp is shielding the owners there, because I don't think they're too different than Glaze, and I've said that for quite a few years, I think Klopp is shielding the FSG in the same way that the Glazers have been shielded by Sir Alex.

30:12I think I'm right on it, Jamie. So, are they for FSG taking money out of Liverpool? No, but I think generally... That's the biggest problem with Manchester United. The owners of Man United, they're taking money. It's a problem, but it's not so big. It's a problem, but it's part of the big problem. I think it's probably the biggest one, isn't it? You're taking money out constantly. Optically, it looks terrible taking money out of the club, but they only take out£20 million a year of revenue, which is essentially, to be fair, like a football player, like a full-back. It's optically terrible. Not Danny Simpson.

30:42It's optically terrible, but it's only£20 million a year, to be fair. If they were successful, and they were actually people who invested in the stadium and the training ground and had a successful football operation, no one would actually... Look at Liverpool's stadium, look at Liverpool's training ground. Jamie, when Manchester United were a PLC, they paid out dividends that were equal to what the Glaze have taken out. So it's not unusual for the owners of Manchester United to take money out. Stop criticising them. Martin Edwards will have taken money out. So the problem is, you can't take money out but not invest in the stadium.

31:11Liverpool's owners have invested in the stadium. They've got one of the best training grounds. You've written an article a few weeks ago. I haven't. You took one line out of it. And you didn't even read the article. Scott Melvin probably sent you it. Who produces this. You've written the article a few weeks ago after saying to me earlier on in the season that there's no problem with FSG at Liverpool. They are not able to invest at the levels that are needed to make Liverpool as successful as you would like them to be. So my point is, you said that... That's not been ever been my criticism. Bellingham obviously now has gone off the table because of finance and he's not an option anymore, even though he may want to come to Liverpool.

31:44was your article, was the theme of your article, and you were disappointed in FSG because of that. No, no, no, I was disappointed in Klopp. Klopp? Liverpool last season... He's going to pay 100 million. So Liverpool last season... Don't talk like you know more about what's going on at Liverpool. Liverpool last season did not buy a midfield player because as a fan base, we were all as if, like, we're waiting for Bellingham. It wasn't said publicly, but we know, being in Liverpool circles, we're not going to buy that. We're going to wait for the right one. So Liverpool almost... Don't throw this season away, but the short in midfield, and we accept that as a Liverpool fan base because we've seen it before, they did it with Van Dijk they did it with Alisson, so Karius is not good enough the centre-backs are not good enough but Liverpool wait for the right man, they wait for the one we all know that one was supposed to be Bellingham so the reason Bellingham then you say three quarters down the season, we're not going to go for Bellingham and it's not just because of his finance if Jurgen Klopp wants to sign Jude Bellingham he can sign Jude Bellingham if Jude Bellingham wants to come but the money, what are you shaking your head for?

32:43Without Champions League football. You haven't got the money. We're talking about money. You haven't got the money. You might even be here next season. You haven't got the money. No, no, no. The problem, no, listen to me. I'm not having a go at them. No, no, let me finish speaking. So, Liverpool, right, will spend, how much will Jude Bellingham cost? £140. OK, not a problem. Will Liverpool spend more than that in the summer? Yeah. Yes. So, Liverpool have got the money for that. The problem Liverpool have got is, they've now got more problems in the team. So, Jürgen Klopp's saying, We can't afford that because I actually need four players.

33:15Rather than last summer when everyone was thinking, Liverpool just need that one midfield player. So they go for Tuchel, then he goes to Real Madrid. And then they don't go and buy a midfield because we're waiting for Bellingham. Then this season happens and you're thinking, oh, this is a bigger rebuild than actually just going to buy a midfield player. So Liverpool will probably spend, I would say, over£200 million this summer. Do you agree, yeah? Yeah, I agree. I think they will. But they'll buy three midfield players. They'll probably buy another defender. So that's why Liverpool have pulled out of that now.

33:41It's not because they can't afford Bellingham and the other three players. This is the same language that Sir Alex was using for years, to be fair to say. There's no value in the market. This is exactly the same pattern, Cara, trust me. Klopp is protecting the owners, and Sir Alex's genius of able to actually compile a squad together, basically off low spend, relatively to the other clubs like Chelsea and City at the time, when they start spending, is shielding the owners, and he's basically protecting them from what's eventually going to come. and I think the patterns at United with the Glazer family are that ultimately they have to leave because they've failed in all three of the major sporting and non-sporting objectives.

34:19Which FSG haven't failed in. So my point is, once Liverpool start to fail on the sporting objective, if Jurgen Klopp doesn't get the money or he leaves in the next year or two or whatever, you'll start to see it unfold there in the same way as it has done with the Glazer at United. Because Liverpool's fan base, equally as passionate, love their club, don't want to see Liverpool at the very top. They won't accept them being sixth and seventh now after what they've seen in the last few years. They had that for 30 years. They accepted it patiently then. Manchester United's fan base are not going to accept having the worst stadium and the worst training ground in the top six, and to be fair, fifth and fourth in the league.

34:53We're not going to accept that. We can accept being fifth in the league as a Manchester United fan if we've got the best stadium, the best training ground, and we're still setting standards. We're not. We've fallen below in every single level. So they do need to leave, and they need to get on with it, because the new owners, whoever comes in out of the two, and apparently it's very close from what IA is, that's close between the two who's going to get it, they need to think about the transfer window and picking up the pieces of what's going to happen in June, July this year. So it needs to happen in the next few weeks.

35:18We'll touch on Liverpool in just a bit, but I want to know from Adam, what do you think is going to happen today when it comes to... You're hearing it's close. What do you mean, what do I think is going to happen today with the deadline? I'm hoping we get a few bids in. I'm not liking what I hear about Jim Ratcliffe and Ineos trying to keep the Glazers in there. The guy professes to be a Man United fan, but he wants to cut a deal which will keep the Glazers in there. Pull the other one. It doesn't sound like a Man United fan to me. There's more protests on Sunday. People say Manchester United fans don't protest the Glazers when we're winning and stuff like that.

35:51We've been doing it for years and it's continuing and there's protests on Sunday at the game as well to obviously reinforce the message that the fans don't want the Glazers to remain. So fingers crossed. Obviously, I have my issues with state ownership and things like that. But ultimately, to see the back of the Glazers and it not be a deal that keeps the men and the minorities, ultimately what we want. And if we get that, then Ten Hag can start to look to the future. But like Gary just mentioned, delaying it and delaying it with these second rounds of bids, third rounds of bids, are we going to stay, are we going to go?

36:24It's affecting the football team and it kind of emphasises again, these guys have never cared about Manchester United's football team. They've never cared about how we function on the pitch. While Fergie was there, we won stuff still. in spite of their ownership. And now they're there and they have to make their own plans and they have to bring people in. It's like what we saw with Ed Woodward. It's just you can spend as much money as you want, but if you're not spending it in the right places and you're not going to get the right people investing, then ultimately it's going to be wasted, which is what we've seen.

36:53So we need to get back on track. We need to have the right people spending the money. And we've got the right manager as well now. Finally, we've got a manager that is bringing us forward, getting us competing. So if we fail to back him in the summer, It's going to be a huge mistake by United, and it'll be the last slap in the face from the Glazers, just waiting around and dragging their feet. Hopefully they do want A-shack. If Ratcliffe is willing to allow the Glazers to remain 20 % involved, I know you don't want it, but doesn't that almost guarantee that he's going to get the preferred bidder?

37:25I don't know. I've been... Because I remember Gary was on the last overlap, you were like, I think they might stay. And you were pretty concerned about that. and I was kind of, no, I don't think they'll stay. Will they go this far without... Does it worry you that Thomas Zillikas goes, I'm not putting myself up for a third round of bidding because it approaches a far... That Jesus was a fraud, bro. That guy who said that the fans need to put in money and stuff. No, he was having an absolute laugh. As likely as that, I buy them. Or Gary. So just on that, the thinking all the way through is that two of the Glazer family want to stay in, Joel and Avi, and the other four want to sell.

38:02so you're talking they only own 69 % of the club 70 % of the club just to round it up so what you're talking about is basically the two brothers that would stay in would basically own 20 % the New York Stock Exchange would own 30 and then obviously if Jim Radcliffe was buying all the American fund idea Elliot they would be they would buy that 50 % to get the brother to get the other brothers and sister out so that's the idea now I think to be fair you know if Jim was to come in at 50 % Jim Radcliffe, he would probably, because it's become so expensive, he probably can't afford the 70 % at day one.

38:37So I suspect what he'd have to do is come in, get control of the club and then take them out within a year or two to make sure that obviously they exit. Because you're absolutely right, they cannot stay in with any control or any power over the football club. They have to exit as quickly as possible. So I suspect he's probably looking at a two-step type position because of the value of the club is at like£6 billion. so he might not be able to afford to get the 70 % which would be 4.2 billion 70 % of 6 billion 4.2 is it? 4.2 but whatever it is so he's probably paying 3 initially which he may be afford and then he'll give the other money whatever it is after so it's complicated Isn't that a concern if someone and I know I don't really understand big finances and all that kind of billionaire stuff but isn't it a concern if someone's coming in and they haven't got enough to actually get rid of the owners then they're going to be sitting around dragging their feet.

39:26We could just be left in limbo for like five, ten, how do you know how long it's going to last? And he seems, there's something not quite right. He professes he's a fan but he owns a season ticket at Chelsea and all. Adam, one thing I would say is though, if he's putting£3 billion down and he owns 50%, he isn't going to let the Glazers call the shots. He's not. He's a big businessman who basically has F1 teams, he has all these, he's not going to come in and just let them call the shots. No one's going to do that. So it's not, his desperation to get the club might force him to do that temporarily.

39:56And that's not what we want. Obviously, we've talked about United enough. Just on Liverpool, and it's a yes or no. Are you both comfortable that you're happy to keep FSG in place for the next five, ten years? So, what you've got with FSG, I accept, and I think Liverpool supports, we haven't got the money of Man City, we haven't got the money of Chelsea, Manchester United. But what we've got is people who know what they're doing. So, you can talk about, look what Chelsea have done this season. Loads of money, I haven't got a clue what they're doing. So, in an ideal world, I would love an owner who had loads of money, but I'd still want what they're doing in terms of decision-making expertise.

40:29The idea of every owner is not spending loads of money, it's making right decisions. And when you need to spend big money, doing it. So 75 million on Virgil van Dijk, Alisson, the goalkeeper. The piece you're talking about in terms of me being critical, I was as critical of Jürgen Kopp and his staff of this. Because this is a planning problem, where you go from actually thinking you need one player, then a year later you're thinking, no, we need three or four. So then you miss out on this marquee player. that. I think Liverpool, we think we probably every three or four years, we know we're not Chelsea or United or City, but you think every now and again you've just got to go, boom.

41:01Buy the top player, send a message to everyone else. Especially a player. It's a Virgil van Dijk or a goalkeeper. The best probably young player out there at the moment. Who sits there, you know, I've seen it. He spends, he's hit to hit with Henderson at England camp. You know, there's... Oh, them snide little deals. There's some deals going on, I'm telling you. Everybody in this room wants an owner who's got loads of money. Adam's just mentioned it, I'm not quite sure about state ownership and you'd have probably been critical of, on this show, Manchester City or Newcastle, but when it becomes your own club and you're thinking, oh, we can buy anyone, you start to do, it puts you in a quandary.

41:34Man United would rather have had... I'd love a new ownership with more money. This is what Liverpool have had over the last five years in terms of, if the Glazers have done to Man United what FSG have done to Liverpool in the last five years, I don't know if you'd be quite as in this position. No, they did, but they did. To be fair, under Sir Alex Ferguson, they were massively successful with the Glazers there. But I'm just talking about more, I'm just talking about the stack it side by side, we're talking about removing the owners from the position. One thing you've got right was Michael Edwards and that.

41:59Yeah, exactly. You're 10 years further down the line than that and I agree, it might go that way and that might change the opinion but Cara's right, you know, they have invested, they built the infrastructure, they put the right people in charge. I would rather us have, yeah, more money to spend so we can compete. It's a slippery slope it's a dangerous game, look at Barcelona trying to keep up with PSG and Man City who can inflate the markets just basically almost for a laugh, just to kind of put other people almost out of business. Look at the state of Barca, because they've chased that and they've had it.

42:28Man United have tried to chase it and tried to chase it to keep up appearances almost as these... There is a happy middle ground where you have good investment. You've still got Arthur. You've still got Milner and Henderson running about. Oh, no, listen. Nobody's out here saying that Liverpool got it right this season. So that's what we plant as in terms of a plan. That's not just on FSG. That's on a planet. Jürgen Klopp put a bid in for the lad who went to Real Madrid. He was about£60-70 million. So there was money there to spend on a midfield player. They didn't get him. He goes to Real Madrid.

42:58So Liverpool then chose... It was almost like too much of a narrow option. They chose to rebuild the attack. They've just spent£200 million by an attack. So Jürgen Klopp went to the midfield player last summer. He could have bought someone for£60-70 million. They actually decided to wait for Belgium and then have them gone through with it. There's going to be an argument that could go on forever. I talk about ownership. I know Gary's... You could speak for hours on it. Kara obviously as well. One club that's very, very happy with their ownership is Newcastle. Ken, everything seems to be going swimmingly well over.

43:26Everything's, yeah. I don't know what you said. Yeah, everything's obviously pretty good at the moment. I'm saying pretty good. That's a little bit of an understatement, I think. To be third in the league from last season, where we were 20th in the league at Christmas last season, yeah, this season's just been elite. I don't really have a negative to say about this season, really and everyone on about their owners and stuff i i understand because we were there for so long like we were literally there for 15 years we were like really unhappy with our owners as well um but obviously now it's that we are a club that obviously kind of following our guests the man city sort of way where we've got a good good investment we've got good owners and we've got people who actually know what they're doing at the club so yeah it's uh nice to see really for the first time.

44:15And Ben from Brighton, I feel like Brighton is like a model of how pretty much any club should be run. Yeah, very rare when you have a fan that is the owner of the club, which is incredible. That's the main difference between all these failing clubs below me. But I know he's invested so well in the facilities, the structure, and yeah, he's a massive fan and he's a great businessman as well. So we're very, very happy with him and we've had such a brilliant season under him. It's interesting when you look at Brighton and it's the same way in which we look at Jack Walker at Blackburn because he was a fan he was from the town you accept the fact that he will put in massive money I think he's putting something like four or five hundred million pounds of his own monies alone into the club which if that was a say an international owner that would be heavily criticized you know because ultimately but because he's a fan of the club they've got the perfect scenario Brighton but let's be clear what they've put in the owners put in huge money they've also proved that they can they can make money through recruitment.

45:10But to be clear, look at the debt that he's got on the club. It's not just players though, like a lot of these owners come in, they buy loads of players. The facilities, we've got a state-of-the-art training ground. Unbelievable youth team. That's where the money's got in the stadium as well. I think there's a loan of between 300 and 500. I don't know the example of a big difference to that, but I know it's a huge amount of money that he's had to put in to get there. But I think it's absolutely brilliant what Brighton do with the recruitment and everything that they bring forward. But my concern is that all they need is one bad recruitment season and they end up in the bottom again and they go down and then they lose that revenue so there is always that worry when there is that level of money that's gone in particularly obviously for someone but that will happen eventually and that's what i think what brighton that the football department the manager amazing some great players but that was southampton 10 years ago yeah that was you know ever another david moore is that thing of buy cheap sell high and i'm bringing that money in and keep doing but when i say it's not sustained sustainable it's not a criticism it's just like we all know as football fans.

46:07It's hard to keep getting those gems cheap. We got ripped apart by Chelsea and we're still doing well. So we've already gone through one bad bit, but we've come out on top and we're even better. So thank you for that. You know, you can take away all of our staff and that, but you can't take away Tony Bloom. And that's what both fans say. We took Potter and then you beat us 4-1, I was there. And it was beautiful. It was a great day. It was poetic. That's football poetry. From the best run clubs to maybe not the best run clubs, we've got to talk about the bottom of the table. I'm going to play a little game we're gonna give each fan of a club in the danger zone 30 seconds okay to give us that to basically tell us why you able to stay in the league the best one gets the common XI

46:55include Chelsea

47:00It's actually true, we're only 10 points away from relegation. What could happen? Three points after one. Right, we've not got a huge amount of time there, so let's start with Ryan from Leeds. So while Leeds can stay in the league, I'm not too short to be honest because we're absolutely pants at the moment. If the owners sort something out, the director of football maybe goes and there's a big buzz and player Willy Nanto is our best player, one of our best players. He's got to play games. Javi Garcia's come in and steadied the ship, but then that ship's capsized now. So it's just difficult to know what's going on.

47:36But some of the best players in the team are not actually in the squad, are not playing in the starting XI. So if they're playing them players, there's a chance we might stay up. Gary, Cara, you've been convinced or not? I was initially when he came in because I think he was a manager and you think of the job he did at Watford was really good. He come in initially, as you just said, steadied the ship. But I think what's happened of late is really worrying. When teams start conceding goals and lots of goals, and I just felt that Leicester game at home was a game they had to win when you see the fixtures that they've got.

48:08But what they've got at the moment is, I think, probably a two or three point gap between themselves and the bottom three. And the way the teams are playing down at the moment, that could be a decent gap. I don't have Leeds going down at the moment. They're in big trouble, but I don't have them going down, I get them just hanging on. Next, we're going to go to Greg from Forest. Go on, state your case. Yeah, well, I know you all think we're going to go down and I think that works in our favour. Our home form is still key. I know we've only just won our first game in XI, but we've got the tough running and the tough running is what we like.

48:42We've got points against Man City, Chelsea, beat Liverpool, obviously. And I think that's what we need. The fans are together, the players are together and the manager, we've stuck with him. So we are going to stay up. I hope you stay up, but I think they're going to go down. I think they'll go down. I thought from January, I thought they would be in trouble. I mean, that's when you were at 10 points. I mean, the last two games, Liverpool away, we gave a good account of ourselves. I know 19 % possession, but scoring goals, we finally did. Was it? I'm going to count yourself. 19 % possession, but lots of shots on target.

49:17And we gave them a running. We got them worried. we've just beat we've just beat Brighton Brighton are the second best away team this season in the league we've just beat them I think Johnson and Gibbs are the two whenever I think of Forrest playing I think when you go to a game you're thinking they could I know they haven't scored a lot of goals this season but I do always get that feeling they could do something they've got something about them and then we've got Danilo as well young Danilo he's just been superb the last couple of games and I feel like we've got these little gems that people aren't recognising yet and that could be the key for us.

49:51I'm confident. The fans are confident again. You should have heard us after the game on Wednesday, so I feel like we're back now. 19 % possession. He's going mad in the boozer. Jordan, the Leicester fan. Gil, give us your 30 seconds of why you should stay up. I mean, I'm not sure we'll stay up either, to be honest, but obviously, you know, Brendan's not there anymore. We've got Super Dean, Shaky and JT's come in. Defensively, we've been all over the shop, but finally realised Danny Ward's not a Premier League goalkeeper and Everson's look decent. Soyuncu's come in from out the cold, even though he's going to Atletico in the summer.

50:25We score a lot of goals. Tielemans has been injured all season, but he's back. Madison's been pretty poor recently, but he's still a top-quality player and he's going to be playing in the top six next season. Barnes is a danger man, and Vardy finally scored in the Premier League. He's only second goal of the season at Ellum Road. So hopefully there's a cameo there from JV, but I'm not confident either, to be honest. We've got a reasonably decent run-in and I think we need seven or eight points, but it's going to be a tough ask. I think Leicester will stay up. Yeah, I think... He thinks everyone's staying up.

50:58He's got it down. I've got Southampton Forest down so far. OK. Who else? We've not got to them yet. Right, well, that brings me on nicely. Baz, you have it in, Van. You've got 30 seconds. What have I got to do for 30 seconds? You've got to convince us in all the reasons why Everton are going to stay up. OK, well, it's done then. I can't. It's the reality. I can't convince you. Because I can't convince myself we're going to stay up. Listening to people talk about ownership, and yet we've been the worst case of it. We've had a fella come in, blow money everywhere. We've got a board that doesn't come to the games.

51:38It's ironic sitting there last night with ten minutes left and people have gone. I'm looking at where I sit, right on the halfway line, opposite the director's box and the people responsible for the mess, aren't they? And that's, you know, we've got to manage it. Listening to you saying, like, play the right players. We've got an international right back, not playing, but we're playing the centre half. We've got a centre half who's scared of his own shadow. He's playing in Michael Keane. I just don't know what, where the hope is. I don't know whether we play rock, paper, scissors, because none of us think we're staying up.

52:09If you beat us on Monday, then I think we'll go. Maybe it's your hoodie, Baz, you know, and bit magic. That's in the 60s. Might put it on today when it says Everton are magic, but they're far from magic. I wish Harry Potter had signed, but it is what it is, mate. We are in a huge, huge mess. We had a little bump when Sean Dyke's come in. We've won one in ten. Frank Lampard was getting hammered for a similar thing. It's not always the manager, because you keep throwing... I heard you before saying clubs, Chelsea, the minute they've bored with the manager, they throw... Everton have done that consistently.

52:42But two years ago, we had Carlo Manciolotti and we were fourth in match. And two years later, if we can get him back for five games, we might stay up. That could be my only defence. And how big would it be for a club like Everton to go down? Never been down in the history. Massive. I think it is. And I think last season, I was on Sky talking about, you know, this and who's the biggest club to go down. And then, you know, what that creates on social media. But I think when you think of Everton's history, the fact they've, I think, along with Arsenal being in the league longer than anybody. You know, the history they've got in terms of the trophies and the titles.

53:16Only three teams have won the league more than Everton. Well, I mean, that tells you how big a thing it would be. And it was interesting yesterday when you played, obviously lost to Newcastle. And I actually put a question out on social media. If you're a Liverpool fan, you know, Newcastle losing gives you more chance of maybe getting an outside chance of the Champions League or Everton losing. And obviously more chance of them then going down. and the majority of Liverpool fans wanted Newcastle to win the game. Which I thought, because in my head, I'm thinking last night, Newcastle drop a few points, Liverpool can get closer.

53:46But it does feel huge in the city right now with the split Everton-Liverpool fans. And they're delighted when we lose the Champions League final. There's no problem with Liverpool fans enjoying it. Bit of a difference, like... No, but what I'm saying is every supporter loves the fact that the rivals don't. but I've always felt when you're down at the bottom, it's probably more, should you be a team who are trying to score goals but you might concede or you try and keep it tight and you might not score because the reason you're down there is you can't do both. So I thought Sean Dyche was a great appointment.

54:20The big worry is even a Sean Dyche team has now started conceding goals because Everton are never going to score goals and Sean Dyche is not going to change that. He's not. So the only thing he could do is make them better and tougher to beat than what the Frank Lampard team was. And he'd done that initially. But when you think of what happened last night, and there's been other games, the Fulham game, the last two home games, you can see them, what, seven goals? Well, Everton are in the bottom two for the defensive of Metrics, isn't he coming? Well, that tells you all you need to know. How can he be worse than what Frank was?

54:52Last year, obviously, they stayed up, skin of the teeth. I think this year, they're going to go down. I think Southampton, Forest, and Everton are going to go down. There's a different atmosphere, from not quite the outside perspective, but there was a real passion in you at the end of last season it was coach greetings and seeing the team off from Finch Farm and you kind of did that last night but it feels a bit like oh come on we'll do it think about it last night for half an hour this time I think you're almost it feels like there's an acceptance I see these guys on an almost daily basis and they're just it's like it's an acceptance and I think that's across the Everton fan base it's almost like come on you know what we're talking about the championship not like how are we going to get ourselves out of this last night for half an hour the better side comfortably newcastle to me looked like we've got a bit of room in the tank if we don't win this one newcastle scored everton had a goldish allowed fraction yeah the champions league ai they've been given i think because it was that them lines then he bend it but once newcastle scored the second he took the game away how big do you think monday night is because i look at your fixtures and you've got a decent last game of the season the big worry is it might be gone by then you've got Bournemouth at home.

56:02But after Leicester on Monday, which is going to be a tough game, you've then got Brighton away, Man City at home. I think if you lose it to Leicester, I can see you get maybe one point out of the next two games at best. I mean, how big do you think Monday night is in terms of everything staying up? Because if you win that, you probably go off the bottom three. If you lose it, you think you're virtually done. Probably five points adrift then. But it's a huge game, I said, when I was honest at the start of the season. If you keep Calvert living fit, we might be all right this season. I've said it before I walked out of the studio got in the car he was out for eight weeks Jesus Christ I've just got one question do you do any of these for the EFL because otherwise I've got to see you for a year we'll invite you anyway don't worry we're running out of time we've had your bottom three predictions Cara give me your bottom three predictions please I'm going to go with Southampton I'm going to go with Forrest and I think I'm just going to go with Leeds I don't know why really because I've just you made an argument for being really tough for Everton but I just think it's I just can't envisage Everton not being in the Premier League and I just think they might get a result from somewhere that you don't expect and I'm gonna go for Leeds unfortunately that's all we got time for big round of applause for both Jamie Carragher and Gary Neville And we'll be back at the end of the season to discuss it all again.

57:21Appreciate it.