“Same Old United!” David Ornstein Joins Scholes and Carra | Fan Debate

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1:16I came for the weight loss and stayed for the empathy. Thanks, Sadie. I'm Myra Ameth, founder of Mochi Health. To find your Mochi moment, visit joinmochi.com. Sadie is a Mochi member compensated for her story. We need somebody to come in and control a game of football so it's not up and down every two minutes. You just need to be someone with a brain. Was Joachim Sterling in Peruvia? It's not the top of my list. It's not the top of Chelsea's either. He was part of the BMW, you know, and Bumo, that was it, Binral and Bumo. He was playing as a number eight against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge. You don't want that.

1:53You said you weren't going to criticise, Clos. Are you? Mo Salah, Virgil van Dijk and Trent Alexander-Arnold All three key men and... Come on, what are you hearing? Just say 21 who's coming, Scotsy, go on. Have a little bit of that. Bing, bong, bang, bong, bong, back of the nets. Sound like my analysis, that.

2:19Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet. So I'm delighted to be joined by all the supporters from up and down the country and also Mr Paul Scholes on my right and David Ornstein here who's in the crowd who is now number one in breaking transfer stories and every fan in here and up and down the country hangs on his every tweet seeing what's going on transfer wise but Scholesy we've had the opening weekend of the season what are your thoughts, what stands out for you? Good to be back obviously first and foremost I don't think there was many surprises I think the top three winning their games wasn't a big shock I thought Liverpool were a really good second half especially I think City's win at Chelsea was probably the best one and then the ones in behind it obviously Villa and Man United Newcastle won their games Chelsea and Tottenham obviously didn't win theirs although I thought Tottenham were really good for an hour of that game the biggest surprise is probably Brighton at Everton yeah it was a standout one wasn't it that was a standout one for me and that was a really good result.

3:27And I also think Aston Villa's win at West Ham. Yeah, big one. It was a big one. I thought it was a great one. So, oh no, great to be back. I don't think there's many surprises, but yeah, brilliant. Okay, start with Big Steve, Man City. Yeah. Comfortable, wasn't it? Yeah, it was, yeah. I think before the game, we were a little bit worried that we didn't have no Rodri there and whether he was up to speed. But Pep got it right. I think Kovacic played really well in the middle of the park with Bernardo. young Rico Lewis at right back and yeah we got the job done Erling Haaland off to a flyer again and then Kovacic sealing his man of the match for me with a goal at the end but we look strong you know what I mean I think a lot of people could relax now because we know that there's a system in place when Rodri's not there that maybe can work whereas obviously the news breaking today that Gundogan may be coming back he's massive for us you know what I mean he's a great player and to get him back as well just give everyone a boost but yeah, I'm happy.

4:25Charity Shield win and then Stamford Bridge. I feel like Chelsea in a few months when they get going Stamford Bridge is going to be one of them places where teams are going to find it tough. So for me as a City fan to get that one out the way early doors and get the three points I think we're happy with that. Alex, Arsenal comfortable again? Good win. Good win, yeah. Important. I think 2-0 the second half wasn't particularly good but you know it's the first game back. I think the story of the game could have been Havertz but for me it was Saka. I think with a goal and the assist I think he had like two and a half weeks off between the Euros final and coming back to training Yeah, the consistency is just unbelievable Obviously a great assist for Havertz as well and a great goal David, I just want to ask you about these two teams These are the two teams I think most people in the room would say are going to battle for the title Not too much transfer activity between the two of them so far I mean, are you expecting any more business ins or outs for either of them?

5:20Well, the lack of activity so far suggests they've got a good set up already. They've got their houses in order, really strong squads, and there's not a great deal you can do to improve them further. So that's credit to those who have built those squads. And there's still time for them to do a bit. So we mentioned Gundogan coming in, which is going to be a great story. And even though he's 33, I think he doesn't rely on his pace. He's a brilliant player and leader. He loves City. He had a couple of bad knee injuries, which probably did give him time to really work on his body and his mind. And that may add time on at the end of his career.

6:09And Pep Guardiola swears by him. It was his first signing. He even signed him with a knee injury from Borussia Dortmund and was his trusted lieutenant, winning the treble, capped in the side and so that's a good one for City and I think they'll probably look to do one more potentially whether it be a wide player or somebody that can play wide and up front too to back up Erling Haaland Do you have any names for us? Not yet they've been linked with the Celtic forward which maybe points towards and he is one of their options but I don't think they've settled on who they want to go for if they will at all needs to be the right player who will except playing second fiddle to Erling Haaland if needed or the wingers who are there at the moment.

6:55And that's not an easy task. Julian Alvarez leaving because he wants to live in Spain and probably be the main man at Atletico Madrid. So other than that, Man City don't need to do a lot now. But maybe in Gundogan and perhaps one more, the Celtic player is of a higher age as well. Maybe a couple of temporary solutions at the moment for City Just to tie them over, it's coming into a really interesting period. Pep Guardiola is out of contract next summer. Many of the players are reaching a level of maturity that you could see them moving on. Kevin De Bruyne, Kyle Walker and so on. So it is a fascinating time there.

7:33Arsenal are at the other end of the scale. They're trying to build a project that's going to compete consistently with City year after year. I think Mikel Arteta has done an amazing job so far, supported by Edu as sporting directors and their ownership there under the Cronkies who got so much stick for so long but appear to be being vindicated in the way they've operated. They've done really well in the transfer market in recent windows. Of course, they'll be looking to strengthen. A deal from Mikel Moreno of Real Sociedad is close and that would give Arsenal maybe a bit of what they lost when Granit Xhaka left as a mature sort of number eight who can sort of play box to box.

8:10We saw in the Euros how effective he can be. Add some height in there as well and real presence, one of the top midfielders in Europe. So that's a deal that's kind of into its final stages, but at the time of recording, it's not fully done. They need to get some players out at Arsenal. Just today, I've reported on Eddie Nketiah, who Nottingham Forest are trying to close out a deal for. It would be if it happens in the region of£30 million, having got a similar figure for Emile Smith-Rowe from Fulham. So there's some good work there on outgoings at Arsenal. We could see Aaron Ramsdale leave. that would require a backup goalkeeper to come in.

8:45And so Arsenal will be attentive to the market too, but the fans have all been focusing on the attack, whether they can bring in a striker. They did go very early in the window for the RB Leipzig striker, Benjamin Sesko. But that wasn't that we sign a striker or whatever we do. It was a market opportunity. He decided to renew his contract there. And like many of the top clubs, that doesn't mean you just knee-jerk into doing something else. You try and look for the right player for you. And as it's materialised, Kai Havertz can play in that position, did well last season, scored in Arsenal's first game.

9:23Gabriel Jesus appears to be back to fitness, had a really good pre-season. And if Arsenal don't add in that department, I think they'll be comfortable with it. It doesn't mean they won't have an eye on it for the future. Do you agree with that, Alex? I think it's about defining what the issue is. And I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding. Arsenal haven't got a goal-scoring issue because we've scored the most amount of goals we've ever scored in the Premier League in the last two seasons. So that's not the issue. The issue is, and I think actually you reported in The Athletic, I think the hierarchy feel we're missing a bit of X factor.

9:52How do you define that? OK, well, I think we lack a little bit of pace. I think we lack a little bit of height. Haberts is the only forward, I think, over six foot. And I think we lack someone who, it's a high bar, but we're chasing City. We lack someone who can create a moment out of nothing, like a seller. How do you find that on the market? I don't know. Maybe they felt Sheshko was the answer. I look at someone like an Osman. I think he's someone who could, the way he creates separation in the box, the way he finishes, he's physically incredible. But yeah, look, it's a tricky one because Arsenal fans probably go back and forth, and I'm sure you see a lot of it, about this.

10:29I just feel if you can't improve to 100%, don't miss out on the chance to improve a bit. Do you know what I mean? It feels bizarre. Like, OK, if we can't go and get the future of the position, in the same way that we did with Mudrick, we go, OK, we can't get Mudrick, we'll get Trossard. That's an improvement. We've raised the floor there. Would Raheem Sterling improve you? I think Sterling is a brilliant footballer. I think he would improve us. It's not the top of my list. I think Arsenal fans... He's not the top of Chelsea's either. I don't know who's got a spot in the dressing room. yeah look he'd improve us if you said to me at the beginning of the summer Arsenal get Raheem Sterling on loan are you happy?

11:12no but from here if we can't get Seshko if we don't fill these other options on the market then Sterling Sterling is better I think he'd improve your squad I don't think he'd improve the team I don't think he'd be a starter but then again I think you do need them numbers you need like 16, 17 players so Kevin 12, 13, 14 that are good and if they stay fit then great you've got a great chance but you still have to go deep into your squad. I think Sterling would be a good squad player for him. It's really easy to disrespect players when they have a couple of years out. This is a guy, I think I'm right in saying, maybe someone can correct me, I think he had the most goal involvements in Europe behind Messi at one point, like five years ago or something.

11:50This isn't a horrendous, this is a brilliant footballer. So he just needs the right environment and that could be Arsenal. I was just going to say, he's 29 years old, Raheem Sterling. Just before we've started recording here, I reported that his preference is for a permanent transfer, not for a loan at this point in time. And Chelsea are going to support him in doing that. He's not training at the club the last two days. He's been training elsewhere. And so clearly the decision has been made, he's going to be leaving. So if the permanent transfer is what's on the table, that's a huge consideration for clubs like Arsenal or anybody else that's linked with him.

12:27We've seen Juventus, I think, in recent days. and more will come to the fore, no doubt. Obviously, there's the London factor and some obvious parallels. I don't know of Arsenal going for him at this moment in time, but what we do know is that Arsenal are looking for that very tricky thing of somebody to back up, the likes of Saka and Martinelli. They've been looking for that for a long time and it's not easy to find. It's like the Harry Kane question at Spurs, who would want to come back up? Yeah, exactly. Sometimes you've got players that good trying to get someone to go to them and then know that they're going to be sub.

13:00I mean, would you hear him accept that right now? He's obviously frustrated with the situation he's got at Chelsea. But we're talking about, Sean, Chelsea. I mean, everyone is ridiculing your club, everybody who talks about them. I mean, what's the feeling in the fan base? Do you agree with myself, Scoles, anyone else who talks about the club? Or do you sort of want to feel like you want to stand up for your club and sort of fight back and explain to us what is going on? I feel like because of the fact that we've always been seen as a team that spends money and the expectancy from the Chelsea fans are that we should compete when we spend so much money.

13:34Because in previous years we actually were successful, now we're not successful. It's easy to hammer us. People have been talking about the squad numbers, like 40-odd players in the squad, but realistically, when you look at the players that are actually in and around the first-team squad and what Chelsea have listed on their website for their squad players, it's not too dissimilar to Man Utd and Liverpool's numbers of players that are really going to be in and around the squad. It's like 26, 27 players. So I think we're being harshly criticised in the media recently just because of our lack of success with the money that we've spent because there's a level of expectancy and an entitlement from Chelsea fans in the past 10, 15 years because we've been so successful that some fans feel entitled to win because of the money that we're spending and what we've already won before and the dominance of what we have.

14:21Can you understand the plan or can you sort of see it where you think where they're trying to go? Obviously you're involved at a lower level In terms of bringing players in and out of the club No I think we said that a couple of weeks ago We can't see Where they're going with it I know they're buying a lot of young players Are they looking for success in 5-10 years I'm not too sure What I would say about Sunday When I saw the team When I saw Chelsea I thought that's a good team I don't think they're a million miles off it It's also players that have come back from injury as well. We've spent a lot of money...

14:57Lavia's one, isn't he? He looked very good the other day. Lavia, we never got to see him. And even he's not been seen as a starter because of Caicedo and Enzo's price tag obviously being double what his is. So I don't know who's actually in control at the club as well because I don't know if Enzo Moresca is going to get treated the same way that Graham Potter got treated when we start to not get successful results. If we start losing and dropping points to some of the lower league sides. Are we at the stage with Chelsea Sorry for interrupting Where The frustration from the crowd Will actually go to Todd Bowley And the ownership Not so much the managers You know I think we've probably said this With Man United over the years As well We can't keep Sort of blaming the managers If they keep sort of failing What's the Chelsea crowd like Is it ready to turn On the club Or the ownership I think it's a bit difficult Because obviously It's a new season I think always fans That go to the club They always got They kind of restart At the start of seasons And obviously we played City as champions Like it's not a game we expect to necessarily win I feel the game was a lot flat I feel like Man City was in cruise control to be honest because I don't feel like we posed massive threats but then at the same time I've been to the stadium for years and I've seen Man City's sides in the past completely dominate us but I didn't feel like we were completely dominated in that game more so that probably they were in cruise control and we didn't pose the threat but I feel like with the plays coming back that are fit Fafana was brought to be one of the best and touted as one of the best centre-halves in the league and available at the time when we bought him, we haven't been able to see him.

16:24I said on Monday Night Football that Chelsea have just got to stop signing players and players have got to stop signing for Chelsea. There's just too many players. But David, they're not going to sign anymore, are they? Well, I think we both know the answer to that. They're always in the market and there's opportunities that might come their way. We know there's interest in Victor Osserman and the one position that many are saying around Chelsea that they still lack, despite all the investment so far, is that goal-scoring centre-forward. What they'll be reluctant to do is sort of kill the development of Nicholas Jackson, who did well in his first season, despite people feeling he definitely has improvements to make.

17:03But how can you develop at Chelsea when a player's bought and someone else's bought again? So, OK, you're buying Mudrick, it hasn't quite worked for him yet, but then João Felix is coming in, Neto's there, and Kunku plays on the left. I just don't know how you can develop. That's what I look at as a player. How can anyone sort of develop and bed into the club when there's so many players being brought left, right and centre in the same position? Well, that's a fair point. But a couple of counterpoints. It's still a relatively new project there. There was a massive change two years ago. I don't think people quite realised at the time the magnitude of it all from the Abramovich era to the Toboli-Clear Lake capital regime.

17:42The work that had to be done, a couple of free agents, top players, Rudiger and Christensen, just walking out for nothing, very high salaries. And now they're trying to get to grips with that wage bill. And they have brought it down significantly with all these long contracts. So that's one point. The second point is that if you're good enough, you will shine. Look at Cole Palmer. And he's already been rewarded with an improved contract that's still within their wage structure. And it does seem crazy to many on the outside when you see this player coming in and that player coming in. And there will be mistakes made at the club.

18:14like they would at any club in this situation. But then Scolese says that they put out what looks like a strong team. And if Enzo Maresca can implement the style that they believe he can, then you could see this Chelsea team being competitive because the quality is there. So yeah, they may still add, sorry to say, a striker in somebody like Anosimun or others. They may not. There are also a lot of outgoings as well, which brings us to explain the PSR situation with players leaving just as much almost as players that have come. And that's allowed them to balance the books. And at some point you would like to think they will come through this sort of destabilising period where there have been so many changes of players, of staff, of executives, of even the groundsmen, and settle down into a bit of a rhythm.

19:06Because they've signed some amazing young players. Some of them aren't even there yet from Brazil. like Esteval, when I speak to people within football, they rate him as one of the best players in the world. What position does he play? He plays on the right wing. I've watched a lot of his games recently. You've got Cole Palmer there as well. I know. That is the problem. Enzo, I don't really want... No, we should really be shifting towards Cole Palmer playing probably more centrally. In the 10? Yeah. Are you going to put Fernandes in the league? Well, he should go on the bench, to be honest, I think.

19:39A lot of people talk about destabilisation. especially as you said then, David. But you look at Sunday's team, I think every single one of them players were there last year, weren't they? But that's one of the things. I feel like we've only really added one player in this transfer window that would improve the start in XI. I feel like over the past two years, it's been a thing of, there's a lot of same level of quality amongst the whole squad. And no one really knows who's established the start in XI week by week. There was only a lavier who came into it, really, one of you who hadn't really played them.

20:06But he has been there a year. And I thought he was probably the best midfield player as well. He could take the pockets. Yeah, sorry, I look at Chelsea and I think where can they improve? And we're talking about not signing players and they shouldn't sign players. But centre-forward's a big one. I think the goalkeeper. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're not a goalkeeper who's good enough. You're not looking at one who's number one thinking, we can win the league with that keeper. I wasn't happy with the Jorgensen signing, to be honest. I didn't think he was one of the goalkeepers that I looked at. I was probably looking at Ben Toad.

20:31What about Ramsdale? Nah. I feel like once you've shown yourself in the Premier League to show the mistakes, I feel like anybody that hasn't been exposed as a goalkeeper, is better to throw in gold than someone who's just shown some exposure with some mistakes. So Petrovic was even... Chelsea fans were kind of happy putting Petrovic in gold because he hadn't made mistakes and he's on a fresh slate. Yeah, it's not... Whereas, like, Jorgensen, I don't like. There were so many goalkeepers out there that I think we could have potentially gone out and spent on, like Costa. Mahmoud Ashvili was available.

20:59Bento was available. Jorgensen was one of the very few players on the list of goalkeepers. David De Gea? David De Gea is a good shot stopper. Maybe not as a modern-day footballer for what Enzo might want to do is playing out the back. He probably wouldn't suit our style.

21:15All right, listen, we're going from Chelsea, a club who are obviously buying everyone, to a team who haven't bought anyone, and that's my Liverpool. So, Chloe, what are your thoughts? Arnaud Slot's first game away, Ripswich come away with a comfortable victory in the end. Yeah, it was a tough first half, but I think everyone expected that. There's going to be teething problems with a new manager coming in, and this manager is sadly coming in after Jürgen Klopp, who is possibly one of the greatest managers to manage in the Premier League, but also one of our greatest managers. So I think we've got to give them time in that second half performance.

21:47I thought we were absolutely superb. The first half, Ipswich, their fans were great. They were up for it. You could just tell they were excited by the prospect of actually just being back in the Premier League. So you've got to expect a really good atmosphere. It was a tough away ground to go. For 45 minutes, they did really well. And Liverpool just struggled to create space and get our dangerous players in the areas with space, where they could actually get in behind and really cause them damage. But in that second half, I think you saw the gulfing quality of what the Premier League is about, and they will cause other teams problems, like they did us in the first 45.

22:20But it's about managing your way through that. And, you know, on a slot, if you ever thought he was petrified about making decisions, he's not, because he brings off Quanter, he puts in Canarte, and at the end he tells you very much that Liverpool were just losing far too many battles. Was that the thing that stood out for you more than anything from the manager, the decision he made, or was there anything on the pitch tactically or the way he set the team up or a certain player that looked a little bit different than we'd seen under Jürgen Klopp? I think obviously the formation is very fluid in what we do and I thought in the first half we just couldn't create the space for our attacking players.

22:51We did try the ball in behind and maybe sometimes we don't do that with Jürgen. It was very fluid and very quickly up the pitch and I think Slot has still got that a lot but he's not scared to go route one. He's not scared to put a ball in behind and tell Salah to go and get after it. and like he said, we had to win our battles but I really enjoyed the fact that he was just no nonsense with it. I don't know on Diagon Klopp because I would hate to criticise the man but there were certain managers out there who probably wouldn't have made that switch and would have said, give him another 15 and then make the switch and by then you could be a goal down, you just never know it might not go in your favour.

23:25So him being so decisive in that moment to rectify the error that maybe we'd made there in Quanta I didn't even think he played that bad but what Canarte did he allowed us to gain a lot more control of that ball and we just we confused Ipswich's midfield a bit they didn't know who to press and where to press and then Ryan Gravenbert I thought was sensational specifically in that second half as well he just found spaces of getting out of our back four given the passing lanes to then cause the players to be attracted to him which gave space to Saaberslai gave space to Trent gave space to McAllister and obviously our front three who are clinical and that 2-0 could have been 4-0 in that second half.

24:05They were that good. Scors, you said earlier on that you were impressed with Liverpool. What was it? Yeah, I just thought they were really good. I think she's something that put her in perfectly. I've got nothing to add to that. But I think, we said a couple of weeks ago, I think that he's coming to a Liverpool squad that's really strong. You think of the players, again, who weren't playing. You think of Elliott and Jones in midfield, Gakpo, Nunes to come on up front as well. there's a really strong squad of players there. Now, Ipswich will always be, honestly, it's a tight ground. We've been there.

24:39It's a tight place to play. It'll always be tough. They'll make it tough for you. And Ipswich did tire a little bit. But I thought Liverpool's strength and more importantly, the goals. They just look like they've got so many goals. And like I said, with N3, I thought Salah looked as sharp as I've ever seen. When I came away from him a couple of weeks ago, I was thinking, he's going into his last year of his contract is he going to be a little bit moody as the same with possibly Van Dijk but you saw on Saturday that he was as lively as I've ever seen him and they've got players to come off the bench they've got five top class players it's a really good squad I know you talk about Gravenberch playing that position I'm not 100 % that'll be his position for 5, 6, 7 or a number of games and I think David will probably tell them more than anything they're looking for somebody in that position Yeah, it's just where obviously the Zubimendi thing obviously went flat.

25:31And I think you reported that you don't think they'll go for anybody else in that position. Yeah, the number six specifically, you know, has been an area that Liverpool have been looking at. But Zubimendi emerged as a market opportunity in a way that we spoke about earlier with Sesco for Arsenal. And it wasn't a case of if we don't get Zubimendi, we're just going to pivot to somebody else for the sake of it. They really wanted him specifically. And unless they find somebody that they're completely happy with, they'll wait and bide their time and be patient and be brave about that. Because it's going against what a lot of the public and fan bases want, which is just transfers, transfers, transfers.

26:14Liverpool have shown historically, and they haven't got everything right, but they've shown historically that they've got the courage of their convictions to stick to their plan. under FSG. It's been self-sustaining largely and they had Michael Edwards there as sporting director. He's now returned to the club as chief executive of football for Fenway Sports Group and Richard Hughes has come in from Bournemouth. And they had a lot to do when they came in, which was only in recent months. And many clubs plan their transfers 12 months in advance. Well, Richard Hughes was at Bournemouth. Michael Edwards was doing external projects and taking time off from football.

26:50So they've come in and they've had the unenviable task, as Chloe outlines, of replacing Jurgen Klopp, nine years, complete hero and legend of the game. And they had the Xabi Alonso situation and that process that ended up with Arna Slott. They had Arna Slott's staff who had to come in. They get into the training ground. They've got to set a new tone and atmosphere and environment and culture under the new sporting director. There's players that need to move on in their eyes because Liverpool have always done that. in the case of Fabio Carvalho and Bobby Clark. And then they set about recruitment at the same time as well.

27:26And it's a squad that you guys have just outlined. It's very difficult to improve upon. And they don't want to make mistakes that some other clubs seem to be able to make, spend recklessly and continue to do so. That isn't possible at Anfield. And they showed some years ago with Virgil van Dijk that if they don't get them in one window, they might go back to it in another window and end up with the player. And so back to Scolese's point, they'll work with their internal solutions for the number six, whether people like it or not, unless something comes up before the end of the window. And in other roles, such as Mo Salah, I reported really early in the summer that he was fully expected to stay.

28:05He'd given Liverpool that vibe. Liverpool had given him that vibe. Saudi Arabian Pro League knew that that was his preference. He still feels he can deliver at the top level of European football. And so it appears in that opening match. so far. So Liverpool have quality all over the pitch and to the extent that they can still make big sales, somebody like Sepp Vandenberg had a great pre-season but is set to go for over£20 million. The one big issue on the horizon for them is the three contracts of Mo Salah, Virgil van Dijk and Trent Alexander-Arnold. All three key men. Come on, what are you hearing?

28:41Three of them staying, three go? What are we thinking? I think they should move heaven and earth to keep Trent Alexander-Arnold. We saw her with that assist for Mo Salah's, the pre-assist for Mo Salah to Diogo Jota, that Trent Alexander-Arnold has qualities like nobody else in this country, and you could say in the European game, and Liverpool, unlike England, seem to use him correctly. And he's a Liverpool boy, I think he's vice-captain now, and it would be very sad if they didn't strike a deal with him, I think, for the Liverpool fans. Virgil van Dijk is at a different stage of his career, obviously, and Liverpool have been looking for options in case the likes of Gomez and Sepp Vandenberg leave, but fully aware that they're into the last 12 months of Virgil van Dijk's time at the club.

29:29He's captain, he's fantastic, but he may have thoughts on his future as well. So I'm really not sure on that one. And then Salah, there's a presumption that he will leave as a free agent in the summer of 2025. Of course that's possible, but if he performs his heroics and is happy at Liverpool and playing Champions League football, then you wouldn't bet against him continuing. I just think it's open. And yeah, I don't imagine all three will renew, but I'm predicting the... I do, actually. I think they will. And that's not just the Liverpool situation. Because there's not many clubs and leagues better than the Premier League or better than Liverpool.

30:07And, you know, if you've got a few years left at the top level, I mean, I've always felt in England, there's probably only Real Madrid or Barcelona that players normally move to. and I just think I can't really see those certainly the older two playing for those clubs at this age there's a lot of talk about Tremper I think when I'm being a local player 25 I think his best years will be I think the club will be desperate Would you get on the phone please? What's that? Would you get on the phone Yeah I would I want to ask you I mean there's always that divide you know what it would be like on social media with FSG you know are you pro them or are they not doing enough in terms of financial wise I mean where do you stand at Liverpool probably one of the only clubs in Europe not to bring a player in?

30:49I think I agree with the fact that it is hard to improve on the floor of this squad that we've got. I think it's a very, very good squad. And in terms of the first 11, I think you're looking for world-class players to improve that. Aside from maybe the number six area, which I think, you know, that is my target area of where I'd want Liverpool to improve on. But now we play with a double pivot. So, you know, do you need an out-and-out destroyer? I'm not sure you need that. I think you do maybe need the Zubimendi type, who what he does is just link the play between the defence and the forwards and gives it to other people to be creative, but gets you out and beats the press.

31:24What's the biggest area then, Chloe, do you think, that Liverpool... If Liverpool were going to make a sign, and one sign before the window closed, what area of the pitch would you want that to be? It depends. Based on starting 11, I'd say DM, you're number six. Based on squad, right wing, because you can't go from Mo Salah to Bend Oak if Mo Salah has an injury hit season, which last season was his first injury hit season really where obviously he got that injury against Real Madrid in the final but he came back and he was back to his best. Last season we had to go without Mo Salah and Mo Salah is what can win you potentially a league title.

31:58I think without Mo Salah, Liverpool aren't anywhere near winning a league title and I think to have the drop-off from Mo Salah to then Ben Doak who Ben Doak, I think will be a boss footballer. I'd rather let him go out on loan than potentially sell him. It wouldn't have to be Ben Doak though, would it? You think you can bring Jota out there, you've got Cody Gakpo, there's other players there that can do it. The only problem with that is Jota, when he's fit, you just need him between the goalposts because he is one of the most lethal forwards in the Premier League. And I would hate to kind of facilitate him and move him to the right wing.

32:29We've seen it with Cody Gakpo. When you're so versatile, it actually hurts you. Because Cody Gakpo can't nail down a position. We don't know where he should play for Liverpool. Last year at the start of the season, he was playing as a number eight against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge. you don't want that so I think you said you ain't going to criticise Clot sorry he's gone now he won't listen to this he doesn't but you kind of don't want that I want Diogo Jota in his best position which is up top and if I need him to play out wide I'd want him on the left wing cutting in on the right I don't think you should have to make do with a player on that when you're as big as the club as we are right now so with FSG I totally agree and I actually no offence I would hate to be what Chelsea are right now I don't want to go anywhere near that I'm really quite happy with not having a problem with PSR but I also feel like if Liverpool somehow don't think that they can there's a player out there who can improve that squad that is the only thing I can't get my head around Do you think they might need a centre back?

33:27I think that might be the only area where they could be slightly weak if one of them When I look at what City and Arsenal have got, I think there's a certain player both clubs have got that I think would be brilliant for Liverpool Arsenal have just bought in Calafiore and Man City I've got in terms of Nathan Aki and Gavari I think Liverpool could do it a left footed centre back who could play left back I really I think it would just give you a nice balance the problem is again Virgil van Dijk he plays on the left doesn't he but I don't think at the end of the world he had to play on the right for some games but I think if we had one of those players and you had Trent doing his thing and being a little bit more free and having a bit more solid on that left side because I just think obviously Andy Robertson is getting older Simakash he's still not quite sure if he'll ever be at the level and I just think the left footed centre half especially for Dutch coaches I think is massive in terms of the balance because we always know we're brought up with that thing on Dutch coaches so Van Gaal comes in to Man United the first thing he does by Daily Blind and we're saying I'm not getting into that one where the centre backs are tall enough but you looked at the size of him and you think okay he's brought him in to build up from the back with the left foot you see Pep he's got two left footed centre backs he had Laporte as well and I just think with a Dutch manager I wouldn't be surprised if that is an area I don't even know who the player is but that would be the one thing I would look at right now a left footed defender for me the three areas are DM left footed centre half slash left back because I don't think Robbo completely fitted the system the other day but he's had half a pre-season he's played 60 minutes in pre-season I can't rule it out and also I think Canarte coming in what he also did the side from winning battles he has that extra pace to fill up the gap that Trent vacates so I think that helped us but then also right wing so there's three areas where I think Liverpool need to make signings not necessarily all on the first team but more squad as well I can't see the worry in central midfield and I know you said a couple of weeks ago you were worried about the legs in there weren't you I think there's good legs in there even with the two young guys I think it's a buzzer's lie he can run Gravenberg can obviously run the only one who hasn't got great legs is McAllister but then I think he could fit that mould of a Zubimendi where he just links a play I think he's got that in him when I mentioned the legs goals I was thinking about if you actually think of the team that finished last season the midfield three was Endo McAllister and Harvey Elliott so that was I understand that so I think that's how Liverpool won the game actually on Saturday Gravenberge opening his legs up so Boz like obviously the pitch got bigger people get tired you know what that's like and then Liverpool's extra legs in midfield as you say they have got legs in there when that midfield three play it's just whether they've got that player who even though they're looking at Zouba Mendy I still think of and I think most of us in the Premier League think of sort of like Keane Vieira you think of even Rodri because he can almost do both he can get on the ball and play but he's a really big powerful player you think of Declan Rice at Arsenal and I just thought if we'd have got Zubamendi him and McAllister would that be a little bit similar to yourself in Carrick a little bit you know almost two footballers in there would that be fair yeah a little bit but I think Michael was probably underestimated for his running ability more than anything.

36:42He had great legs. He was a Rolls Royce really. He was just an absolute machine. Michael his biggest strength for me was his positioning. We all know he could play football and he had great ability to pass the ball forward but he was always in the right place. Now, Duba Mendy I think is that type of player along with Rodri as you said, they're always in the right place. They're always there to link play up. They're always there to stop play. They know what they're doing and that experience is good but I just think Liverpool could get away with it I just wanted to add quickly on Liverpool when you were talking about the central defence there were these online rumours and bookmakers odds were tumbling on Jared Branthwaite in recent days Baz what are you shaking your head at?

37:22Yeah no chance of Salah You all wanted them to go to Man United didn't you? No that was David That was the client's journalism trying to create a thing Don't be silly Don't be silly So you do your checks around this sort of thing and it clearly doesn't seem to be one that's credible. From the club or the player? No, there's not a situation there. Everton intend to keep hold of him and I don't think Liverpool are actively going for him. But what you do pick up in conversations is that Liverpool are looking at that position but it would take some departures and probably both Gomez and Vandenberg and they'll have their lists and potential targets to come in because they need to future plan in that specific position anyway.

38:08And there is a wider point. You started the Liverpool conversation with the social media. It really is quite interesting to see how fierce the sort of criticism and scrutiny is of it. And that's fair enough. Everybody's entitled to their opinions. But when you speak to people that know the guys who are doing this and try and get proper sort of insight on what's going on inside, the work that is taking place which is more than just signing players that there is more to a football club than that um the likes of Richard Hughes and Arna Slott are said to have impressed from not just inside Liverpool but but outside too people who know them in the industry and come across them and then there's another part to this which we haven't mentioned is the young players at Liverpool who basically won the league cut for them last season some of them have left and will go on loans.

39:00And you talk about that position specifically, there's a player there and you never want to heap expectation on, but is it Trey Nione? Trey Nione. Yeah, Nione, who came from Leicester as a young boy. And he is really impressed in pre-season and with slot in particular, from what I hear. So he'll probably get minutes in there. And Liverpool are a club who had genuine opportunities to young players. You mentioned Van Gaal before, he turned to young players that season, but it was almost because he had to. And then when players were back, the young players were out of the team. Liverpool, I do think, seem committed to giving that opportunity and it wouldn't surprise you if some of them take that opportunity, although the expectations are very high in this Champions League football and that can't just be the younger players on their own.

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40:57Adam, we mentioned Brantway there he was someone Manchester United we're looking at I think over the summer some fans still got it we didn't buy it I know, I know, I know you wanted that money bad didn't you? No I mean you've done a video of that it's that easy pay the money I want a five bedroom mansion but I haven't got the money it still stays there Baz is back Adam, what was your feeling on the back of the you know the first game of the Premier League season? It was good to be back The first 20 minutes, I was a little bit worried because Fulham started well. They had a few opportunities and they looked good.

41:29But I think we eventually got adjusted to our press. Mount looked impressive, which is weird because when everyone's fit, I don't know if he starts games, but he looked really impressive in terms of leading the press. Casemiro was rolling the years back and we should have gone 2-0 up in the first half. Then the second half was much of the same. We played well, but there was a period just before we scored where we got a little bit nervous and you could tell there's still that from last season where we started over hitting passes and under hitting passes and rushing things a little bit. But eventually we got the goal and I thought Joshua Zerksy.

42:02At the time when I was watching the game, because I sit at the back of the Stretford and I was a bit frustrated because he kept dropping deep and kept dropping deep and kept dropping deep. But then I watched his performance back and actually when he was dropping deep, he was useful, he was linking things up and he was making the late runs into the box and that's where his goal come from. So I was happy to see him get that kind of start. I think Rasmus Hoyland, we had our first home game against Brighton last year. He scored and then he got disallowed after a long check. I still don't think he should have been disallowed.

42:28So he didn't score? He did score. He had the ball in the back of the net. He gets disallowed and you just think, if that goal goes in for him in the Premier League, like he did in the Champions League, he just started firing. And it was good to see Joshua Zerksy get that. I thought Mas Rari was very, very impressive. Considering we got him for£15 million or something around that mark, I thought he was really impressive on and off the ball. bringing the ball forward, and it enables us to play Diogo Delo at left back, which whilst it's not ideal, you'd rather have Luke Shaw fit. And I did say last time he'll come back to Carrington injured.

43:01What happens, he goes away with England, comes back for us injured. So we have to address the left back position still. We still probably need a number six, and David will know more about what's going on with Ugar and all those kind of things. But I'm quietly impressed with what's going on. and I saw some glimpses of change from last season in terms of the press and in terms of when we've got all our players out there fit, we're actually a decent side. When you've got Lissandro Martinez playing, I think he could form something really well with De Ligt. And again, I don't rate him massively. I don't think he's really a Man United player that should be starting every game, but Maguire's third or fourth choice, I thought it was really good against Fulham.

43:41So there's a lot of bright signs. There's positive signs, but we still feel like in games sometimes there's maybe not that control or that knowledge that we are going to score and a little bit of nervousness creeps in. Scolzi? Was you impressed? We didn't know much about Xerxes. What did you make of him? Yeah, I thought it was all right. I feel like I'm the voice of doom again, Kerry. Really, I didn't see anything different from last season. I thought they did okay. They deserve to win the game. Don't get me wrong, but I thought there were still times in the middle of the pitch where it was just wide open.

44:19You think of the time when I think it was Pereira who went through. You think of the quality, he just got to play minutes against Maguire. I thought Maguire did do all right. I like Xerxes, as you said. He got his goal, a bit of a strange goal, but he liked to link up players. I know Strow would have been happy with that goal, just running in and getting the finish. I'd be happy with any goal. I'd be happy with any goal. I thought it was a little bit scrappy, the goal. I think you're being harsh a little bit I didn't see what was different The first two chances for Bruno You try and score with every single attack You can't do that There's never anybody There's never a midfield player For five minutes we're just going to keep the ball Let's take the sting out of the game for a minute Everything's end to end And someone like You watch City on Sunday You watch Kovacic Just takes the sting out of the game come on we're just going to keep the ball for 10-15 minutes I feel United Bruno he's trying to hit passes all the time there's Casemiro running overlapping people they're all over the place at times and I still think that's chaos now they have two or three good chances and if they'd won the game 3-0 you wouldn't have been surprised but Fulham and I don't think Fulham are going to be not going to be a top team we're going to play much better teams than that and other teams will take advantage I like Mason Martin I thought he looked really sharp we need to see something from him of course we do so I didn't see much different I did think we created the two chances that Bruno should have scored they came from us pressing them on the front foot and trying to win the ball back early and I thought we did that well and there were times where Fulham were trying to play out I thought we did that last year I thought we did that for the last two years I don't think we did it enough though and it was often like Bruno would go on his own and then he'd look back and everyone else is still behind him somewhere and it felt like it was more of an organised team movement but there were those periods where we weren't at it.

46:11But again, it's early doors. I'm a little bit more up to... Just say 21 is coming, Scolsy. Go on. Have a little bit of up to that. I hope it is. It's again like you said with Mason Mount. Now you look really sharp. But where does he fit in? I think it improves our bench massively. I'd rather Mount coming on than McTominay. But at the same time... What do you think when the subs came on? You see with 10, 15 metres ago we're bringing two set-and-a-halves on. I think that's more fitness. I don't think Maguire played 19. I know it was, but I thought, jeez, we should try to win a game. He'll hit it's good though, isn't he?

46:43I know we won, but we saw the two centre-half come. Johnny Evans rolling back the years. Johnny Evans, yeah, it was strange. What are his goals? If there's a week to go in the transfer market, or we're ten days away, so... Gundogan. Just that midfield. I know it's not going to happen, but I think that's the type of player Man United will need. So Man United, you just mentioned the Garty from PSG. He's like a holdman field player, but I think he just runs everywhere. very pressing people. I mean, would you rather them almost go for a, almost like a Zubamendi type of, like a post goals? Yeah, a Zubamendi or a, I'm going to say Gundogan.

47:21I think he's just... A controlling midfield player. A controlling midfield player, just to set the sting out of play. I think Gundogan's perfect for that. I've not seen too much of you, Gata. I think I saw him a couple of times last year. I'm not sure technically... I don't think so. I think the thing with him... I'm not sure technically he's good enough. He seems to be a little bit more like an Amra back. maybe a little bit better. I think he led the tackles in both the last two seasons. He's led his respective league in tackles and I think we're bringing him in for that. I think our physical levels will very easily run over and I think in bringing the likes of De Ligt and Maz Raby, I think we're bringing that physicality up of the team a little bit.

47:57But I'm a bit questioned, I'm not really sure. I don't think we need somebody to come in and win tackles. We need somebody to come in and control the game of football so it's not up and down every two minutes and you can see goals, you can score goals. Yeah, of course you can. just need to be someone with a brain a football brain just to relax everything down and again tell Bruno keep the ball for five minutes please it's funny when you watch Casemiro you think obviously the career he's had he's won five or six Champions League but sometimes when I'm watching a game and he's playing the whole midfield role sometimes as you said he'll run behind the strikers or he'll be between the lines and you're watching the game thinking do you understand what I mean?

48:34yeah of course and that's why he's there you think of what he's done at Real Madrid playing that position he's got the experience surely just stay there don't move and just organise everything around control things around you but again he's off he's flying everywhere I think that comes down to the control if we have a bit of control I don't think Casemiro feels the need to go running everywhere I think he's just trying to blow out fires shouldn't he be there maybe yeah but it's Casemiro David are they going to get one in for the window just on that point the controller at Real Madrid for all those years was Luka Modric not Casemiro.

49:07I remember being at Anfield when Casemiro was flying into slide tackles down at the touchline. That wasn't the controller and Man United need that Modric. They're really easy to find. So Ugarte is a player that the club really like and if the deal is right then they could do it before the window shuts but PSG have always been holding out for pretty much what they paid for him which is around£60 million. And Man United are doing deals differently with the new regime in terms of they are haggling more, they're waiting to get the best deal, they may actually walk away from a deal if it doesn't work.

49:43That's probably something that Liverpool have done in the last five or six years, because United have always been seen as this team who will just pay whatever the other club wants. There's definitely been a drive to be more disciplined in the negotiations, a bit more prudent and sensible, which often didn't happen in the past, and clubs took advantage of that, as you say. And so I think the price point that United have got all of their signings this summer has been pretty decent, to be honest. No major complaints. And that's what they're trying to continue with Ugarte. So if PSG stick to their valuation, I don't think it's going to happen.

50:18If they come down a little bit and there's some flexibility there before the deadline, then it could well happen. People sort of saying, well, it might be a loan with an obligation to buy. That's PSG's perspective. Manchester United, that's the same as a permanent transfer. and it doesn't really make much difference in the PSR calculation and Man United do have a bit of work to do on that front, whether people like it or not. And if it's not going to be him, then they do have other possibilities as well, I'm sure. You've seen names flying around. It was Sander Burge, but he's now going to Fulham, I think for Fahnau, Monaco has been mentioned and there'll be more, whether we've heard them or they've kept them under wraps.

50:56But it's possible that McTominay stays if he decides that he doesn't want to make one of the moves that's being presented, because I think Man United would do a deal for him, but they'll respect his decision equally. And if he doesn't depart, do you have the space to bring somebody in? So I think there's a lot to consider at Man United before that deadline, and largely it will be on outgoings before finalising maybe one more player in. With Scott McTominay one year left, it'd be madness to not sell him. I think they were together right in one of the world. Is it sticking over bonuses and stuff like that?

51:29If he says he wants to go, you don't get it. Because that's how it feels at the moment. It's a little standoff between the club and the player. You want a goal, then make sure it's heard. We saw with Wan-Bissaka that one of the issues was agreeing the termination deal, the sort of severance or whatever you call it. And of course, if a player's got a contract and Man Utd have awarded that player that contract, then there is going to be a discussion to be had with the representatives. And it's not always easy. But I don't know the ins and outs of the McTominay one. I think it's more a decision whether he wants to play his football elsewhere or whether he wants to continue at the club he's grown up at.

52:06Yeah, I was just going to ask you, David, you mentioned about United have paid not massive money for players at this point. Is that because, which I think, they're not the higher tier of player? The only one that we don't really know about is Lennar Jorah, really, who could be anything. What do you think of you, Garci? You've probably seen him more than that. I've only seen him two or three times. As I say, not massively impressed. I wonder, he's the number six, possibly Liverpool looking for a number six. Is there any competition for him or is there a reason there's no competition for him? No, I've not seen much more of him than you guys.

52:43Was it Sporting Lisbon before he joined PSG? There was a real fight for his services. Chelsea were very close to doing that deal. He was in that bracket of players. He's still only 23, isn't he? He's a young player. And so clearly he, and you've seen it for Uruguay as well, your description of him was very Uruguayan, South American sort of central midfielder who's all over the park. And, you know, definitely the club rating very highly. I think Eric Ten Hag... Man United do. Yeah, but Eric Ten Hag, I think, probably still has a bit of affinity for Amrabat. And that's still an option that's there.

53:25and Amrabac presumably would be in favour of it. So they'll be working on a small number of options, but the finances in these things are as much a factor as... Do you think if they get him, Casemiro will be gone? Or could they play him together? It's not as straightforward as that. There's all this talk about Casemiro is going to leave for Saudi Arabia. Not so simple. The deal has to be right. Are they even in for him? They weren't the last time I made checks on it. Saudi Arabia the pro league hasn't spent massive money this summer everybody was raving about Casemiro after that I'm just trying to ask if you sign you guys where does that partnership work it just doesn't seem to which is why they need a controlling midfield like a I think the problem with Casemiro has been he plays every game I think maybe wrapping him in cotton wool a little bit playing him in big games taking him out I think it could take a bit of the pressure off him and maybe see better performances from him as well one of the problems last season was he was playing every game.

54:25He played at centre-back, played at midfield, played all over the place. I think easing it down a little bit for him is getting a little bit older, taking our time. I think he's got a big point to prove as well. I wouldn't be surprised if he wants to stay to prove that point because we never saw the best of him last season. He certainly looks a lot better when he's come back. He's a lot truer. He looks like a better player. Well, not a better player. He's always been a top player, don't get me wrong, but he just looks like he's got something to prove now. And just back to Cara's original question, the new regime are probably going to make an even bigger point this summer to set the tempo in their first window of being in sporting control, of making really methodical decisions in a way that hasn't happened at United in the past.

55:08So I don't think they're going to commit to transfers until everybody is on board. That comes from, you know, Chief Executive Omar Barada, Sporting Director Dan Ashworth, Technical Director Jason Wilcox. They've got Christopher Vivel in there, who's sort of working on recruitment. Matt Hargreaves is helping with the negotiations. You've got Dave Brailsford as Ineos' Sports Director, and Jim Ratcliffe and the board. Bigger squad in Chelsea? The manager is involved in the process. Definitely, definitely. Definitely. You know, there was this talk that he has a veto within his contract on transfers, and we don't know of that being removed when he got the new contract over the summer.

55:45So I'm sure the sort of... You know, that's a stupid question. You think of the ex-Aix players he's brought in with Masraoui now and Deleuze. Five he's got now. It's pretty obvious. When you look at the recruits so far, you could say that he's having even more influence than before, or at least as much. But I just think the decision-making process is probably a little bit more collegiate than it might have been previously. Ben, speaking about Manchester United, maybe them buying someone like Casemiro, an older player. I just thought on Monday night, disappointing results. But when you look at the players who came off the bench for Tottenham, very young players.

56:20I mean, what's the feeling with the Spurs supporters, how the transfer window has gone on the back of Monday night's result? I think the transfer window has been pretty good for Spurs. I think they've kind of found that balance with bringing in someone like Solanke, who is a proven Premier League striker now. Also adding that kind of sprinkling of youth with the likes of Archie Gray coming off the bench. Lucas Bergvau as well, who I thought was really impressive on Monday. I think he's been impressive throughout pre-season. So it's not really a surprise to us Spurs fans. I think the frustration comes from that lack of ruthlessness.

56:44One, in front of goal. And two, well, by not killing off games. And then in terms of our defending as well. Poster Coglu has come out and said so many times, you have to take your chances. I know it sounds obvious. It's kind of that old adage. But we could have been 3-4-5-0 up in that first half. So I think the Spurs fans are pleased with the business that we've done, but we're kind of seeing some similar mistakes and similar patterns to last year. Do you think Solanke fixes that for you? I do. Yeah, I think he's the perfect fit for Tottenham in terms of he's the best pressing centre-forward in the Premier League.

57:08I think we'll create more than enough chances for him to get 15, 20 goals in the Premier League and in Europe as well, maybe on top of that, maybe 25, 30 in all competitions. I think he has got a lot to prove in terms of the fact that he was obviously let go at Chelsea and Liverpool at a young age, but he's developed a lot since then. And I think he's a really, really good fit. and I think it's kind of come at a perfect time in his kind of career trajectory. Right, I'm back at a big club now. I've got something to prove. But he's going to get a lot of chances. He had three chances on Monday that on another day he sticks in the back of the net.

57:35I just think that one thing that's disappointing for me is that Chloe spoke about it earlier with the Ipswich game. Leicester didn't make that difficult for us. Ipswich, you know, it's always going to be difficult going to a newly promoted side. I know Leicester have obviously been in the Premier League for a long time, gone back down, so it's not as exciting for them maybe. And obviously there's a lot of turmoil going on at Leicester. but there was a real opportunity to go and kill that game off because I think you and Gary said at half-time it was very, very flat at Leicester, very, very flat and again we come up for 15, 20 minutes or 10, 15 minutes in the second half and again created opportunities.

58:05There was the Benson Corps one where I think we worked it really, really nicely and had the shot straight at the goalkeeper. That to me as a fan felt like that's enough now. That's the last one and you could feel the game start to turn after that which was really disappointing. Again, I think with the bright young players that we saw coming off the bench there was a lot to be hopeful for for this season and that result on Monday hasn't changed how I feel about this season. I still think we're going to very much be in that hunt for top four. I think the signings point towards that. I would like that little bit more experience in the team.

58:31I think we do lack a little bit of leadership. I think it's always, if we concede a goal, which we conceded a lot of goals last year, although I don't think it was necessarily all down to our defence. I think Solanke actually fixes that, having a striker that can hold the ball up. I still think we're lacking, again, everyone's kind of spoken about it, that number six. Obviously, Bissouma out of the game on Monday with his kind of stupid actions from the week before. We still haven't got that perfect fit. But it's hard to find one because they're so expensive. They're so elusive in the market. And I think that's what Spurs are missing.

58:59That ruthlessness in midfield. Someone to break up the play. I think we've solved that with Solanke. Again, he hasn't scored a goal yet for us. First game of the season. I think, again, if he gets rolling against Everton on Saturday, there'll be chances for him there. And I think he'll have a really good season. He's got to get going soon, though. I think the longer that comes, that could be a problem. Because we know, you said at the very start, that he's a proven striker. I think he has been for one season. I think he's got to do it again at a club that's the next level but I think his trajectory is only going one oh it is going up don't get me wrong I worry about him finishing wise I do a little bit and I want him to do well just sometimes I look at certain players and he I might be wrong he looks shy a little bit a little bit when he plays I made the comparison with when you watch Tony play you can just see him on the pitch he's just strutting round he's like his own in the pitch he's got that sort of football arrogance I'd love to see Solanke have that in some ways and I just I hope we're not sort of talking in five or six games and the press and the media everyone gets to be like has he scored his goal and that pressure builds on I don't want to see that because you're still classing him as a young player but he's 27 I thought his all-round performance was that it was really really good but he did centre forward so you're always going to be judged on scoring goals I think if that momentum didn't switch in the game there was a goal coming for him the chances were there and I think with the way that Spurs play obviously I think David mentioned earlier about Man City looking at Kyogo from Celtic His job for Andrew's team at Celtic was to stay between the width of the six-yard box and convert very simple chances, which there will be that for Solanke this season.

1:00:26So he will get a lot of goals with chances put on the plate for him. You saw how well Madison played the other night, looked back to his best. He's got a lot to prove this season because he's got, obviously coming off the back of that Euros omission, and it was great to see him play in the way that he did. But he, alongside the team, faded in that second half, which was something that we were quite critical of as a fan base last season. And obviously he's got someone like Dane Kulusevsky who came off the bench who has been playing centrally basically all through pre-season. I think he made a massive impact when he came on.

1:00:52So there's a lot of pressure on someone like Maddison, but maybe that might be exactly what he needs to get back to what we saw in the first 10 games of last year. The thing I worry about Spurs is, have you got the depth in the squad? Yeah. You think you have, or are you worried about that? No, I agree. I think you've got 13 or 14. If they stayed fit all season, you'd be looking at top four. And it's the way they play as well. The way they play, it's so much energy. It takes so much out of them. and that might have had something to do with the way they finished last season so I just think he still needs possibly two or three just to make it a 15-16 man squad rather than a 13-14.

1:01:26Yeah, and I think our best defence of Poro Romero, van der Venne and the doggy only played about 17-18 games altogether last year. Obviously a doggy missed from about April onwards and the thing is, obviously, I'm a big fan of Christian Romero. I think he's a really good defender. I think he's someone that's matured over the last season or so. That mistake was quite uncharacteristic, I think, of him on Monday leaving Vardy at the back post. But I think him, van der Ven and Adoghi have only had 45 minutes of pre-season football. And like you said, the way that we play, you need to keep those players fit because it's very high intensity, very high energy.

1:01:54But that's why you've got to take chances because then you don't put yourself in that position in the second half of games where you leave yourself that bit more open. You miss too many chances, the momentum turns. And I think what was really pleasing in that first half is that was probably the best we've controlled a game of football since those first 10 games of last season. The second half of last year was a little bit more erratic. You spoke about Man Utd earlier, becoming like a bit more of a basketball game at times. and I think that's what we didn't see in that first I think we totally controlled it again you have to take the kind of quality of the opposition into account unless you've got a lot of stuff going on at the moment that team isn't as good as the championship team that came up new manager so it wasn't a massive task for Spurs to do that but it was really disappointing that we just didn't see it through but you've got to I know it's such a cliche but if you don't take chances you're going to leave yourself in that position

1:02:42Dan, next to you from Crystal Palace Will Crystal Palace have any centre-backs by the end of the window left? I think Mark will probably be staying now We've had four bids come in incrementally And none of them have ever reached the level that we asked for at the start So I think Steve Parrish came out and said The chances of us losing both Anderson and Gay Was very, very small You know, I'm not particularly, I don't want to sound like I'm happy he's leaving because that isn't the case at all. But I do see the logic in the Anderson sale because 28 years old, two years left on his contract, pretty much doubling our money because three years ago he came in from Lyon for 15 mil, I think, and it's going to be 30 now.

1:03:22I think as well, I read, I'm not sure if it was David or not, but the wages that Fulham are putting him on would put him level with our highest earner. So from our point of view, you look at the overall project at Palace and trying to sign players, good age profiles and potential. If you're looking at a centre-back at 29 or 30, particularly if we were going to give him a new contract on higher wages. It was 28, five minutes ago. No, but in 12 months' time, you look at the contract situation coming up and giving him a new deal. if you've got him on big wages because you've given him that new contract selling him on at 30 or 31 is going to be a pittance compared to the 30 that we're getting now Would the fan base be pleased that Anderson's gone because you all feel that means that Marguerite will be staying?

1:04:07I think, you know, I don't see a scenario where Marguerite leaves now it's a little bit of a difficult one because Michael Alise left for the 50 million to buy in Munich in order for us to do the business that we want to do in this final week or so of the window, we need a little bit more in the way of liquidity, I think, because we want to get a backup left back for Tyreek Mitchell or someone to provide competition for him. We want to get a centre-back in to replace Joachim Anderson. And I think there is a desire for another attacker as well. And with, say, the 20 million surplus from the 50 that we got from Michael, I just don't think it was there to be done.

1:04:41And this opens a lot more doors. So I think that's the logic behind it. I think there are going to be a fair few people that are sad that he's going because he's been a fantastic player for us, but I do understand the business sense behind it. Yeah, I'm a fan of Anderson. I love watching him play. I mean, one of the best passing centre-backs you see in the Premier League. Yeah, he's got unbelievable. Oh, he's fantastic. But talking about you there losing players, I mean, Baz, Everton have lost a few over the summer. I mean, do you think they'll lose any more before the window? Not that they don't want to.

1:05:11Well, if someone pays£70 million or£75 of Branthwaite, he'll go. As long as it's not Liverpool. Would Liverpool pay it? I don't know. I honestly don't... Me, Pearce, I don't know, but I don't believe Everton would do that anyway. I don't believe they'd do it. It doesn't mean they wouldn't. I just think that looks unlikely. What's your feeling on the back of the result? I mean, Scolese said, and I think it was the result that I think probably for most people in the country it stood out. Because that was a game where I just thought new manager for Brighton, away at Goodison, you know, first game, Sean Dyche type of football, tough place to go.

1:05:43I could easily see Everton winning that 1-0. To lose 3-0 at home, I mean what was the feeling coming out of Goodison it was oh obviously coming I was one of the few that stayed but it wasn't great coming out I think the game Everton done alright I mean we were sat people around me and when it went 2-0 and we were like how are we losing I like Brighton the great I like Brighton sorry I like Brighton the way they play and all that but on Saturday they hadn't done anything they were winning 2-0 and once Young got sent off he must be older than you Scholes you know he must be still playing once he went off Brighton Brighton took the game away as you'd expect and it could have ended up four or five but I just think with Everton it's just the final third the difference in the two teams was in the final third you know you know what I thought and it took me back to Sean Dyche sort of at Burnley he always had the reputation and some people might like it but he sort of played the same team every week you're here to watch Burnley you'd know who's playing and Everton brought a few players in in the summer I know the lad from Villa I think played midfield and has done quite well hasn't been in pre-season but it's still almost that same from four and listen they might be better than the signings who've come in but it just what do you think is there something in there or is Sean Dykes right to pick the players that he knows listen I had an interesting discussion last Wednesday about what the starting line up would be and people were telling me I was wrong when Michael Keane will play and it will be McNeil and Harrison and De Corre and that's what it was but those players the manager knows what he's getting off them now obviously he's brought Illiman and Dye and he's brought Jesper Lindstrom and Jake O 'Brien is coming whether Michael Keane should have played or not Joaquin was all right.

1:07:15It wasn't a game he'd done things wrong in, but Everton, you know, no Jarrett Brantway changes the back four, of course. The right back issue, Seamus Coleman injured again, Ashley Young, 4-0, Nate. You know, and Patterson, who could have played, is injured. So Everton are stretched. But it is in those attacking areas. I personally, at half-time, would have taken De Corre off and put Deion. We were getting beat anyway. He's got nothing to lose by just going, right, go on, let's play on the front foot. It's outmined us when we go away. It's outmined us going to Spurs Saturday and playing everyone behind the ball and boring it.

1:07:50I just think at Goodison, I think that's just a little change that he's got to make. Just at home, I think we've got to go after teams a little bit more. I mean, obviously the last few years, Everton have been full of fighting relegation, not so much last year. But is that in the back of your mind at all, or do you think you'll be absolutely fine? Because the big thing is to make sure you're in the Premier League for next season at the new stadium, isn't it? Yeah, it's got to be in your mind. But I personally think Everton will finish 14th, 15th. I think they'll be okay because they get results.

1:08:15I mean, last season, four months without a win, lost the first four home games, had eight points taken off or something, we were still 14 points clear of relegation. You know, with the eight points, we had as many points as Brighton, you know, a point. So we would have finished 11th, I think, without the points to the Ducans. I think it'll be there or thereabouts again. I said before last week, and I've not changed it on one game. They'll be between, in my opinion, 11 and 14, but that will be grind and results out and stuff. And it is, you're right, it's going to be everything should get better from next summer because the match day revenue will go up and all that but the biggest thing with Everton at the minute is the ownership thing still and trying to give the manager what he needs you know we've given players and he hasn't used them yet and he will use them I'm not saying he won't use them but he still needs a right winger he tried to get Wilfred Nontro or somebody tried that last year but without a sale like PSR buys Everton a fine if you look at the numbers but there's no cash you can't do deals without cash it's great going to Leeds we'll give you 2 million and they're like we want 10 up front mate so you can't do the deal so I think any any players Everton bring in I think David might agree with this I don't know but any players Everton bring in now will be dependent on trying to get some out they're trying to get Maupai out I think Holgate they're trying to get out Michael Keane you know has got less than a year left Dominic Calvert-Lewin big uncertainty over him and also Abdelhaid Akore there's some interest from the Saudi league so there's five players there in the squad who might not be here by Sutton next Friday when it's shut.

1:09:44So that's where I look. I do think we need a right winger and I do think, obviously, if Calvert-Lewin goes, do you need a centre-forward? Because, you know, do you need something? Like you just said before, Paul, all-round game, great winning headers, great holding it up, back to goal, excellent. But you're judged on putting the ball in the back of the net. And this isn't a team that scores a tonne of goals. Second lowest goal scorers last season in the league. Fourth best defence, but can't rely on that again. Yeah. How have we got this far in the show on the total transfers and we've only just come to Nottingham Forest.

1:10:13Greg, is it nice to not be involved in all this sort of transfer talk as much now? I know you've had a little go at the end of June with a bit of a skullduggery, getting a few deals done with Newcastle and other clubs. I'm thinking Sef van de Beek too. No, no, it's fine. I've been looking over David's shoulder actually seeing people got that striker yet. But it's been nice just to have a quieter window. We seem to be signing players to build for the future. The average age of the signings is 23. players that we're going to be not just trying to survive one season with, which we successfully did the first season, but players that we're going to make money from in the future or get us up that league, because that's now what we need to do, find ourselves an established, you know, like Crystal Palace or someone like that.

1:10:56That's our aim at the minute, and then to push on from there. So we desperately need a striker. We can't rely on Tywo or Chris Wood for that many games this season. And I think we'll get one, but for me the biggest thing was keeping hold of Murillo and keeping hold of Gibbs White for this summer. That's bigger than any signing that we could have made. Are you talking about a striker to play or just a squad player? Because I thought I won you, I think these last couple of years, I think his goals have almost kept you up. That's what it felt like me watching from afar. It's the injuries. He's critical for us and he's an absolutely brilliant player.

1:11:30When he plays, he's our best striker but you look at how many games he's played over the seasons he's been with us and you can't say Tywo's going to play 30 games this season. We've got to have that back up. And Chris Wood, 14 goals last season, already got a goal this season, but he was blowing in the second half. You know, the first half on Saturday, we looked good. We looked like a team that was progressing. Second half, we were tired and we needed something that just wasn't there and that's why we suffered in the end. Billy, you must be pleased with how it went for you at the weekend. And Brentford, tell yourself, Finn, I'm well happy.

1:12:09I'm not going to lie. Big is, right, Premier League, fourth season in the Premier League. Brentford FC spent all my time in the lower leagues. All of a sudden, bang, here we are, this game, playing Crystal Palace. We had a little chat with Dan earlier on. And Crystal Palace, last season, mate, they were on the back end of that season. They were wicked. So we've gone into this game. There's two things nervous. You're playing Palace, who basically is like a third of the England squad. OK, that came to the final of the Euros as well. So we're sort of playing England. So I'm twisting it over here.

1:12:44But the second thing is also we've got Noah Ivan Toni in the side as well, who everyone knows about Ivan Toni. Great goal scorer. He's been great for Brentford from the championship all the way through. We've had him for four seasons. We haven't got him. OK, last season, without Ivan Toni, we had about eight months to prepare without him. We did really well for the first couple of months. You know, and Bumo, bang, magic. You know what I'm saying? And we really set ourselves up nicely. But then when we lost a couple of players for injury, particularly Rico Henry and Aaron Hickey, it flipped things a little bit.

1:13:14And then we, let's say we struggled, but we had to adapt what we were doing because we were just losing players left, right and centre. And listen, we're a small team. We're not going to say it at all. We're a small team. When you start losing squad players like that, you are in all sorts of trouble. But Thomas Frank, brilliant manager. he managed to teach people to play in this position and that position all over the place we kept ourselves in and we've not got players coming back this season so now coming into the Palace game the big the big the big thing for me is whether or not these key players going to be coming back are going to be good enough to keep us in there and and play against them and I think we did we did a good job Palace were a good side we were a little bit lucky you know we were a few minutes against the green but I think the one thing that I thought was really, I mean that goal that we scored, our first goal, you know, and Bumo's goal.

1:14:02Yeah, it was brilliant, wasn't it? Playing the ball out from the back, bing, bong, bong, bong, bong, back of the net. Sound like my analysis, that. Again, it just goes to show that we can flip the game up. Thomas Frank, I just love him and I just think that he's such a clever manager to be able to take a group of players like that and be able to just flip things from season to season. David, how close are we to seeing Tony moving and will that money be used, do you think, for Brentford and bringing players in? Well, it can change between us recording this and the programme going out. Don't worry, we'll answer.

1:14:34No one's going to hold it against me. It's not close at the moment. And, you know, it's a very complex deal to do. The Saudi Pro League and Al-Akhli in particular need to pay the transfer fee that Brentford want. There's no agreement so far. They also have to reach an agreement on personal terms with Ivan Toni, who's only going to go over there for a fantastic contract. In fact, this is an England international who you could say is in his prime years. He's a year away from free agency when he could have his pick of clubs. And it's a particularly complicated summer with the Saudi Pro League. They've not spent anywhere near what they did a year ago.

1:15:12There are far fewer squad places available. And it's a crucial period for them to try and sort of plot their course for how they're going to be as a league. Now, clearly it could happen. Maybe it needs to happen because I'm not aware of any other proposals being on the table as things stand. That can, of course, change before the window closes. There are clubs in the Premier League who need strikers, and so I'm sure they'll be thinking about it. But if the finances don't work out for the Saudi Pro League, what chance have they got for the Premier League clubs offering something superior? And then you've got a possibility that I've reported for quite some time of free agency in the summer of 2025.

1:15:53Brentford will want to avoid that but at the moment the figures are not right for them to accept an offer from elsewhere so they need to decide and be very careful as this deadline approaches as to what they want to do. Right now and at the point of which he was left out of the squad for the Palace game, there is no deal. And as Brentford fans, I mean the way that we operate, I mean a lot of people say oh no, you don't want to tell me to go But, you know, I keep saying we're a small club and we operate in a particular way where we buy players from time that people have no idea who they are. OK, and then we get them little rough diamonds, get them to that next level.

1:16:30So we're so used to bringing all these players in and kind of moving them on. So we've been ready for Ivan Toney to go from time. We thought he was going to go last season, to be quite honest with you, when he scored 20 goals a season. As a football fan, I love players that have been there for 10 years, 15 years. That's the old school way. Oh, yeah, they've been there forever. But this ain't the way this anymore now. So Ivan Toni, because it's proven when you've got Oli Watkins, Malpe, all these players that we've brought in, and they said, don't worry, Bill, we'll get somebody better. And we've done that all the time.

1:16:58So we're not worried about him leaving at all. And we're thinking, OK, Ivan Toni goes, we're going to buy another 742 players. It's got Thiago as well, haven't you? It's gone back. You've got a bad end to the image of God's sake. That's right. So we're not worried about it. So we kind of want him to go now. But we do, because he's going to go. Anyway, so we just need him to go. Let's get the money in. I don't think the two other forwards get enough credit. Say again? The two other forwards. I don't think they get enough credit for Brentford. I think they're brilliant. Bumo is unbelievable, OK?

1:17:25And from day one, he's unbelievable. I think the thing is, a lot of people thought he was older than he was because when he had the beard and everything like that... He's 28, he's 23, isn't he? Yeah, that's what I'm saying. He's young. And imagine when he started in the championship with us, right? And in the championship, he was part of the BMW, you know, and Bumo, what's it? Binra and Bumi. One of those Watkins and all that. The W's Watkins. And they scored 58 goals between them, right, in the championship. And the football we were playing, OK, it was on the floor. It was just, we were just tearing people apart.

1:17:58OK, so he's a brilliant player. And also Wiesa as well. We thought he was a bit of a super sub before. You bring him off the bench and bang, there he goes, scores a goal, gets down on the floor and he does a little pray. But again, those two, so we've got, when it comes to scoring goals, we actually don't really have a problem. Where our slight issue is in defence. And like I said to you, we lost Rico Henry. He should be back soon. We lost Aaron Hickey. And then we're looking at a centre-back, which I'm not going to mention any names at the moment now. David, at all. You know what I'm saying? No, no.

1:18:30Because we want to keep that under wraps because we need to make sure that we get these deals in. Because the problem we've got is that beforehand, we get all these players in that no one would know. And it'd be great. And everyone's like, who is he? Never heard of him. Who is it, David? But now, every time we get a player that comes through, I think the agent goes Brentford on them now. and then, boom, Topnom, whoever it is, comes in and they sweep him from under. That was Archie Gray, wasn't it? That's exactly what happened. And before that was Mudrick. We had Mudrick, we were about 18 months before everybody else.

1:18:54I'll be away with that one. But he might have been different for us because we would have actually let him play and he could have actually developed and grown with us, you see. So, like I said to you, it just depends on situations, you know. So, yeah. So you're blaming David, really? Listen, listen. David, let's just keep him zipped up, OK, until the deal's done, and then we can let it out there. OK, thanks for that and thanks for all the supporters for joining us on this week's Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet. So make sure you join us next week.

1:19:44Thank you.