Schweinsteiger On United & Mourinho: "They Kicked Me Out.”

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0:33Can you see my phone on the table there? I don't like having papers on the table.

0:45What's the big thing that we want out of it?

0:52How are you? Good to see you, OK? Good to see you. How are you? Nice to meet you. OK, hi, OK? We're just debating. Did you play 18 times for United or 30? I don't know. 18 it was. 18. Wow, that's a lot. But wait. That's a long two years in Manchester. I got, yeah. True, true, true. Where did you live in Manchester? Where did you live when you came? Hale, the place to be. The place to be is Hale, right? Where all the posh people live in Manchester. Oh, really? Yeah, whereabouts he rented a house? Roy also lives there, I think, right? So that's why the posh people. Yeah, all the football players live in Hale.

2:01Thank you. What happened that summer? You want to know? I trained with the under-16 team. Other players playing in your position and you actually think, I think that I'm actually better than this guy. I mean, Pep is incredible. I knew that I'm physically stronger than them. Xavi, Iniesta. It was actually all there. But you just needed to put the puzzle together. Why are you looking so scared? What is that? It's the white sausage. Supervisor! Oh, you get spoiled, Gary. And what's this? Is this a mustard? Yes, a sweet one. I want to talk about Manchester United. How did that come about? You were at Bayern, you've been here all your life.

2:47Yeah. And then all of a sudden the call comes from Manchester. Who makes that first call to you?

2:55Actually, you have to start with, you know, when you were, and for sure it happened to you as well, but when you played for United and you were sitting at the massage table and Rod was giving you a massage or whatever, and then former players came in who played abroad and they spoke about how nice it is to be abroad, the experience and all this stuff, I had the same. So I had those players who came to Bayern to visit and spoke about it. So you're kind of curious a little bit always. But for me, my dream was always to win the Champions League with Bayern Munich. That's why I was working the whole time, like, in my life, actually.

3:33And then the dream became true. And then there was a moment when you had a feeling, OK, maybe you just want to feel something different and see something different. And when we faced Old Trafford, I always said, like, this stadium, this is amazing. Like, the fans, I remember one day we lost actually 3-2 against United, but we in the second game yeah you went through the way exactly robin scored this that goal yeah but when we left the pitch and you you know like you pass by the the supporters and they gave us standing ovations yeah and i have never experienced it somewhere else yeah and uh so that was always stuck in my mind of course when i was young i was also actually i had like jerseys of united uh back home i was a fan of content on my brother as a huge united fan as well so i always said if I once gonna leave Bayern Munich it has to be Manchester United and then when Louis van Gaal took over and he was asking me if I could imagine like playing for United and also if you see the circumstances in that year 2015 Liverpool was not as strong, Chelsea City was not as strong so the moment to win a trophy was there it's different than maybe now So I decided to join United, which was amazing.

4:57I enjoyed it so much. What was your first impressions when you got into the club? Compared to Munich and where you've been? The training facilities or you talk about stadium? Everything, everything. So people, amazing how polite and everything. Like that was fantastic.

5:15Stadium, walking on the pitch, nothing better. Nothing better than that. facilities actually a little bit like not as modern than I expected to be honest. I think they rebuilt it. Yeah, they retired probably. Carrington would have been 15 years old when you arrived. Yeah, something like that. But of course it was hard for me to live my childhood club. So I remember also the first day when I arrived at Manchester. Yeah. And then we had actually the US tour and I had to say bye to my wife and to my friends. Like the first time. Yeah. Like I had some tears in my eyes, you know. Yeah. But but that's what I'm saying.

5:56The people, they really helped me to settle in very well. Who struck you straight away? Yeah, Wayne. Wayne was there. Wayne Rooney. Yeah. Ashley Young, Michael Carrick. Yeah. Phil Jones, Chris Morling. I actually was always close to the English players, so when we had, when you sit on the table, I probably would have been with you on the table. But we're a different age. Just a bit. That's interesting because obviously, since Alex Ferguson left, the thinking is that for 10 years, 12 years, it's been failure. But actually, in the season that you were there, you won the FA Cup in that season, first season, yeah?

6:37Yeah, yes. So it wasn't all failure. Did you enjoy that first season? Very much, until January. But then I got three-game suspension, which I still don't understand why actually three games I was suspended. And we were, I think we were first. We were first on the table. I think Leicester was either equal or below. But then when I got banned these three matches, I think we made like two points in the three matches. We lost a little bit. And then I got my injury. And that was a huge problem because I actually, we faced in Liverpool after, so I actually was injured. I knew straight away that something happened.

7:20And when you look at the foul, or like at the tackle, it was not really a foul, but you could see like, that's not really just a small thing. And then the problem started a little bit, yeah. And in that first season, I struggled, I mean, I said this publicly, I struggled with the football that Louis van Gaal played at Manchester United because you talked before about the principles and values of a club or a country with Germany. I think Manchester United have those values in terms of speed, attacking, and Louis' style of play was... Controlling. Control the whole game. I found it very difficult as a Manchester United fan, obviously played for the club.

8:00I found it very difficult to watch. Obviously, you played under Louis van Gaal twice. Exactly. Did you like the football that Louis van Gaal played? And believe it or not, in Munich it was the same. The people in Munich all did say the same. They like it. No, yeah, they had to adjust to it. Adjust to it, yeah. But he was actually, like the way he changed the football in Munich actually the most, the most was his way. So actually still the club plays in the 4-3-3. Yeah. Like he established that actually. He was the one who put me from the winger to number six actually. Yeah. and brought up young players like Thomas Müller, Holger Badstuber, Jesse Lingard, Rashford.

8:42He gave the chances to those players. But sometimes some young players are not making that step, like Rashford did or Lingard. So you have... He didn't spend so much money, to be honest, at Munich and also at Manchester United, I remember. He likes to promote young players. Exactly, or to give them a chance. you know and it's not always working but um for a club actually that's also the question you're gonna go that way or yeah you do it like jossie and you buy slatan pogba and for a lot of money so but um the way the game how he sees it um it's of course with a lot of risk as well against the ball yeah but it was working a lot i think and if you go back and you and checked the first, let's say, the first part of a season, from summer to January, I don't know if someone in the past of the coaches had more success than him in that year.

9:49It just turned after Christmas. Yeah. And then what happened that summer? Jose comes in. What happens then? You want to know? So on my birthday, first of all, because I came to United, and we had with 2016 with Germany national team, we went far to the semifinals. So I came also stepped in a little bit later. The team has been in the US tour, I think. So when I came first day, I actually trained with Zlatan. He was also there. And I was like, oh, great. A player who has the vision and amazing to play with. And then next day on my birthday, when I came to Carrington, John Merthyr was there and he said, are you not allowed to walk into the dressing room?

10:34And I said, why? And he said, yeah, the coach said so. It's OK. Without any warning? Nothing. No warning. You don't have to walk into the dressing room? Yes. He just stood there and told me that. John Murtagh? Yeah. And then it was also not easy for him to tell me, I must say. But why would he tell you? I don't know. And Jose just didn't want you in the dressing room? Yeah. What did you do on that first day? Yeah, I was like... With Zlatan. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. First day I was training. So someone could have told me there, you know, no problem. Or explain it to me just like in a normal way.

11:19But okay, I went to the youth dressing room. I've changed there and I trained with the under... Sorry, they kicked you out of the first team dressing room? Yeah. Completely? Yeah, completely. So I had to ask him to bring me my cleats and training skier, for example, to train then with... I asked like, okay, with who I'm training? And he said like, there's the under 16 team. So I trained with the under 16 team. Was this made public at the time? No.

11:51Okay, but then actually I... Did Josie speak? Josie must have spoken to you. No, I said to him, look, can I talk to the manager? like in the afternoon or something. And he's like, okay, we'll ask him. Anyway, when I came back from the under-16 training... Did you train well? I trained so bad. No, I was like thinking, what's going on? Is it a joke or is there something going on here? And then I actually had a meeting with him in the afternoon.

12:22What happened? No, he just explained me that he didn't see me happy here at United. Because when I had my injury, I did my rehab with the German doctors, for example. And I spent time then in Germany. Of course, I came back to United and was in contact with the doctors. And I watched the games. So that was the I had with Louis van Gaal the conversation when he was the coach He said like look come on the weekends to United be in contact with a doctor and do a rehab You need to be fit, you know because there was the FA Cup final so yeah, which I almost could have played but So that was our day and our agreement.

13:08So I just kept to the agreement You know, do you think they thought that you just got ready for Germany and dismissed United? Maybe maybe but for me it was just the thing to get healthy and to be able to play as soon as I could have played, as bad as I would have been for my national team tournament as well. I didn't start the first game or the second game, you know. So I stick to the agreement with Louis Farah. And, yeah, but obviously, obviously then maybe the board or thought a little bit differently about that. Did anybody else get moved to the under 16 dressing room? No, no, no. It was just me.

13:53Just you? And then actually, after that I was training alone for at least three months with a fitness guy. Who was that? Paolo. So I trained always before the team trained or after. So Jose never let you train with the first team? No. Why? I don't know. I never know. I guess they wanted to get rid of me, you know, like, I get that. Yeah, that's pretty obvious. Well, there is a way to do things. Exactly. Exactly. But in that moment, actually, I was like, okay, good. But I still was super happy. I love to wear the jersey. I loved it, you know, like, and I was saying, okay, maybe it's a period. I will train now.

14:36I keep myself fit. And maybe one day they change my dream was always to step back at the old traffords you know how are the players with you by the way because i mean no i i didn't see them sometimes i passed by a few or i got a message but um but you said those players that looked after you when you first arrived they must have kept in contact with you and sort of yeah they said they didn't understand but i don't know like they didn't understand the decision and stuff so um yeah but i didn't see them actually because I literally had to train in the morning or after their session to not see them so it was and then sometimes you know that's illegal it's not allowed okay I mean I'm saying to you is that I'm not okay for me I was a PFA Union rep you're not allowed actually to do that okay you know you're not allowed to dismiss someone from the it's constructive dismissal in some ways yeah not going into employment law with you but I will for a second thank you It's good to know.

15:37It's probably a few years too late. You probably should have come and seen me at the time. But I'm stunned at what I'm hearing. I'm embarrassed, actually. Because I always think that, look, players leave clubs. Players left the club when I was at Manchester United. But you do it with, well, sometimes it can be an angry. Because sometimes it can be a problem where a player and a manager fall out and a player leaves. But there's a way to do things. There's a way to behave. There's a way to act. I was not happy, obviously, and I was also very sad because, like I said, I really... Manchester United is my second club in my heart, you know, so I was really there with everything.

16:15And I think I gave a lot, like everything, when I played as well. So that's why I was, like, very sad actually how I got treated, but I'm not this kind of person who is then running to the media and talk about it and try to say something and just... be like the complicated guy and like the focus on that thing that on football you know it was more important for me to be to behave like I did and I said to myself okay listen do your job train and maybe one day you get a chance did you go back and see anyone else did you go and see anyone and say look come on this is not right you know did you go and see Jose again did you go and see John Murtagh and did you speak to them no Ed Woodward was back in the days of course you spoke to Ed we had also the uh or my agent also spoke to him but it the decision was made did you go and speak to ed i spoke later to him yes but for me for example it was very hard to see them because i knew it was not only jose's decision it was also the club's decision so it came from above jose you think i mean i i guess so because jose actually when we spoke like he knows me as a player you know and when he was working for realo into my land like there were some interactions as well so i think it was both a little bit but um it yeah it hurt me obviously when he was saying that i'm not happy here and because that was not true i was very happy at united and it was just i was unhappy because of my injuries you know do you think do you think I think this, I'm hearing this type, I think everyone's hearing it for the first time.

17:54Do you think this sort of explains culturally, you know, everyone talks about in the last 10 years, Manchester United's culture is bad. That, you know, great managers have gone there and failed. Great players have gone there and underachieved. I said it becomes a graveyard for good players. Does this type of thing explain, this instance explain, you think why that culture? because I always think if you do something like that to Bastian Schweinsteiger, every other player must think, well, if they can do it to him, imagine what they're going to do to me. Maybe, maybe it's that, that you kind of, you do it just to make a statement, you know, for the rest of the group.

18:36Maybe that's it, but, I didn't understand the way, you know, like you could have done it like also differently, you know, speak to me normal, but not in that way. but yeah in the end of the day I must also say that after the three months training on my own one day Josie or his assistant Rui I think Rui he came to me and said like look you can train with us you train from tomorrow with us then I trained with them and actually I think I trained well. So because, you know, when you play then with Paul Pogba, you know, I like to play with him, with Zlatan, you know. Why did you change their mind after three months?

19:29I think that they haven't had their best games. Season was a little bit tough. And maybe they wanted also to have an impact on the trainings field as well. First. So, yeah, I did that. And then later on, like, I got my minutes, but still it was sometimes when you see other players playing in your position and you actually think, I think that I'm actually better than this guy. I can give much more. Who was in your position now? You know, you know. It was obviously Pogba. No, we had Paul, we had Andre Herrera, we had Michael Carrick, we had Snyderland, Fellaini. Yeah. So I thought that I'm not the last one in that group, you know, like for that position.

20:17Yeah. So, and when you train, you see and the big players, they also see it immediately, you know. Yeah. So, but then I actually played a few more minutes and stuff, but, and also Josie, he apologized and, and. He said sorry to you for what happened. Yeah. He said in the end, like in the end, actually, he said when I just wait first, I need to tell you. For me, it was not easy than sometimes being sitting there after a game and then people came in and from the board and they came to shake the hand. That was for me not easy because I was thinking.

20:58You guys actually treated me not like a gentleman, like not like normal in my eyes. So I could feel in my heart. So when the board came in, yeah, because at United, the director's coming after the match to shake out. Correct, correct. Yeah, you thought that was... So my heart was not anymore so full of red. Wasn't there, yeah? It can't be, can't it? It was a little bit broken, like, because no one said, apologise, you know, until then, actually. The first time when someone apologised was then when I decided to leave United to America and asked Josef if I can do that. He said to me that he apologised for the way he treated me.

21:34in the beginning and he could not, he had to let me go because he could not do something against my decision again, you know, like so he could not say no to me in that moment. Do you think that team was good enough, you just don't think it was good enough? 100%, 100%. I would love to see him in a better team. I call him one of the best midfielders I've played with.

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22:39People have this perception of what Paul Pogba was like at Manchester United, but what was he like in that time that you were there when you played? I call him one of the best midfielders I've played with. I think you could see it definitely when he was playing at the French national team. You could see which kind of potential he has when he has the right team around him. So I enjoyed playing with him so much. him and Zlatan, Wayne. That was so nice. We had the right pieces. What was it that was missing? Or was it just that City were so... That we played together. It was actually all there. But you just needed to put the puzzle together.

23:22What would you have done? What would be the team that you would have picked? You're the coach for two minutes. David De Gea, Valencia, OK, backline was not that important. Left, Luke Shaw. Yeah, you could play with Chris Smalling or Phil Jones or Rojo. But then left, Luke Shaw. Midfield, Pogba, Schweinsteiger. Maybe Carrick or up front, Rooney, Ibrahimovic. That's enough. Rashford. You think that team was good enough, you just don't think it was... 100%, 100%. If you need long balls, put fella in, bring long balls. You can do that if you want. It's interesting because obviously you've been successful all the way through your career.

24:10You've seen World Cup finals, Champions League finals, title wins. Your belief was there that Manchester United could be good enough. 1000%. So what was the problem then? What is the issue? Everyone's trying to put the finger on why Manchester United is not successful over these years of Louis van Gaal, Jose Mourinho, Ole Gunnar Solskjaer. Of course, sometimes you spend the money completely wrong. You have to adapt also how football is changing or not changing. And the easiest example, and where actually United should have learned out of it, It's just, I don't know how far is, how many miles is Liverpool away from United?

24:5345 miles. Exactly. Just look over there. What did Klopp do? Did he sign a lot of huge money transfers? No. Look where he got Robertson. The same he did like, I don't know, other players. The same he did at Borussia Dortmund. He found Lewandowski, he found Goetze. He found Hummels, Piszczek, Blazikowski, Gundogan. All those players. Royce to your recruitment basically just have to look 45 miles Aside and just see how they do it and they are dominating since how long now? Seven or eight years. I mean, I'll say perhaps what dominate but they've done up the very great. It's stable It's up there. Yeah, it doesn't have no the wave like United does talk to me about Marcus Rashford.

25:43I Would love to see him in in a better team where he gets the balls in the right moment. I would love to see that because in the years, in the past, you don't really see that, you know? So if he would play for a different team, maybe he would also increase his level a little bit more. He's still like the player who can decide their games, but he doesn't show it too many times because maybe he's also inside a little bit frustrated how it is, you know? Do you think he needs to leave? or do you think he needs to just get better players at Manchester United? I think that, first of all, he has to understand, he can also be the example, you know?

26:23Like, you can handle frustration also differently. Yeah. But someone needs to tell him and speak with him, you know? And also, it has to come from his own. That's very important. Sometimes you have these coaches who tell you, stay left, stay right, but you need to understand. If you play for Pep Guardiola, you need to understand what he wants. And then you have to do it. But you cannot just go to someone and say, hey, I run faster or decide the games. You need to help him and he needs to understand why. You have played against Paul Scholes, Frank Lampard and Steven Gerrard. They're all exceptional players.

27:04Yeah, that's true. And this debate in England around who is the best? Scholes, Lampard, Gerrard. Because when there was three of them, Gerrard and Lampard played in the centre and Scholes got moved to the left. And there's this debate about... What's your thoughts on that? Because they're all great in different ways. They are very good players, all three of them.

27:33All in a different way, I must say. Yeah. I mean, you know, for example, Paul Scholes much more than I know. I maybe know a little bit more about Frank Lampard because I faced him a little bit more often. So when you face someone in a game, you know more or less how good he is or not, right? Yeah. And when you train with someone, even more. Yeah. Like, so that's why it's for me tough to say about Steven Gerrard. You know, I played against him in the international team, but not too many times, to be honest. So I can't really say who is the best one of all three of them. I rise them very, very, very high.

28:14And that's why it's probably unfair to pick someone from them. They will dominate the league immediately and the game will change also in England. Have you been critical in the past of how everyone's changed? He's a genius. The German football was number one in the world.

28:37You played under great managers and not many people have played under Pep Guardiola, Hankes, Ljou van Gaal, Jose Mourinho, Otmar Hitzfeld. Otmar Hitzfeld. Great managers, you can love some of the great managers in the last 20, 25 years, in history actually of the game. Unfortunately not Sir Alex. Not Sir Alex, no. But you played under some of the great managers that have won everything. If you were a manager now, who would you most be like? Probably Jupp Heynckes. Probably Jupp Heynckes. Because what I liked on him is that, you know, you have these managers and they have their style, they have their rituals.

29:21And Jupp Heynckes, I remember when we lost 2012 the Champions League final against Chelsea. And we lost also a cup final against Dortmund and we lost the league also even if we were nine points leading by time by one moment he was able to change his approach to the team in his age his style of play or yeah like in small things like he he he changed a little bit also the style but also we changed also a few players but he adapted more he was more listening to the to the team the conversation was even closer okay and I appreciate that very much. You don't see that so many times when you have, like you said, this high-profile coach, and he has been able to change his own personality almost a little bit to be able to have success, and then literally the next season we won the triple.

30:20So you like the fact that you could adapt, whereas if you play under, I imagine, I've not played under Louis van Gaal or Pep Guardiola, but they have their set style of play and nothing changes. You need to have good reasons to change a little bit. Yeah, true. So you can't come up to Louis van Gaal and just say, can we do this and this? You need to really prove it.

30:43But that's why I appreciate very much that Jupp Heynckes was able to do that. I think he was, I don't remember how old he was by that time, he was 65 or something. and his list is also quite interesting as a player and as a coach about his success. So that's why I would, from the personality point, I would definitely take your pain, Kess. If you talk about maybe tactics and all this stuff, I mean, Pep is incredible. I think, you know, when I actually played for United and I heard that Pep will leave Bayern Munich and he signed for City, I was like, okay, they will dominate the league. immediately and the game will change also in England the way the people will Will watch pep style and try to copy you were critical Have you been critical in the past of how everyone's changed because obviously the German style pre-pep Wasn't it was I always thought that when I played against Bayern Munich, it was always a physical battle.

31:42It was quick players strong players It's always six foot three defenders big whereas with pep obviously became very very technical Did you like that transition or not? So my, I spoke once about it and I think some people didn't understand what I tried to say. But 2012, 2013, 2014, I think that Bayern was probably the best team in Europe. And the national team, we won the World Cup, so we were very high. And then Pep came to Munich. And obviously not easy, you know. when you're a coach and you come to a country and a club where you're the number one in europe or in the world um but he had his style of football which is amazing like when we played barcelona it's difficult of course and he tried to uh impact obviously his way and it's he's a genius like the ideas which he gives to the players and how doing the game as well uh it's amazing but what happened is that a lot of other clubs or even the national team tried to copy.

32:54Yeah. And we focused more on that style than keeping the values of the Germans, which you already spoke about. And I think that we forgot completely about our DNA. And we trusted a lot that way of pep, which is very good. and we won everything. But that was more or less a little mistake of...

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34:00German football, I would say. It's interesting you call it a mistake. Yes, because we focused too much on his style and forgot actually about the DNA and the values of we were, I think also, like, I don't know, you tell me, how did you see, what was the words which you described of German football of 2014 or 2013 when Bayern won the Champions League? I would say resilient, strong, aggressive, counter-attack, but also set pieces, hard to play against, win the games, winning mentality. that would be how I would see German football in that period and then after the next years let's say from 2016 to 2010 when you see Lahm playing in central midfield and going in there and you see all the things that happen no we've seen exactly the same thing in England I actually am on the same page as you if you watch Pep's Manchester City play against I'm trying to think of a team in our league Liverpool No, not Liverpool.

35:10Against the lower teams, it's not very exciting. Because they keep the ball for 75 % at the time. It's too easy for them. It's brilliant. You've got to marvel at the genius, as you say, of how he's done it. But then you see in League Two, or in the Championship, you see centre-backs now on the six-yard box and the goalkeeper passing it to the centre-back. And I don't know why we've done exactly the same in England. It's been a positive impact, I have to say. but everyone is trying to copy it. And now Pep's playing with four centre-backs in his defence. And Haaland, so he's actually changed his style again to a more aggressive style.

35:48Exactly. And everyone's still trying to copy the old style. And that is where I see that he also learned out of it because when he won the Champions League, you could see how the defenders were defending. Yeah, he's changed. He's changed in the last two years. When you saw Jones playing as a six, for example, and how he was, of course, playing with the ball, but more about the defensive way. And that has changed. He was, I think, he learned out of the time also in Munich, how it was and maybe the first years at City, what does he need actually to win the Champions League. It's also having defensive strengths.

36:25And I think that City has got it and has changed it. But what I try to say is that the German football was number one in the world. and we have lost our values, or we focused not anymore so much on our values and trusted a little bit more other things. You won the treble with Jürgen Heinke. Jürgen Heinke, yes. You win the World Cup, obviously with Jürgen Lov, and then Pep comes in, and you change the style of play. That's what you're describing here, isn't it? We changed, not only Bayern Munich, even the other teams in the Bundesliga or national team, you kind of adapted to it. because obviously Pep's way is great, like the positioning and a lot of great things.

37:13But I think also that you cannot play always in one half, like high up. It's impossible. It's very, very difficult. And I always said Pep trained in Barcelona. He had 11 actors on the field. and he had a movie and he tries to do the same movie in Munich or Manchester City, but sometimes the actors are changing, you know, so that's a little bit the tough thing for him. But I would never say that Pep was bad for Bayern Munich or something like this. He was actually amazing. I wish we would have a coach like him in Munich again. When I used to play against Bayern Munich, I used to think about giants when I used to play against football clubs and I used to think Bayern Munich what used to impress me was the coach you used to have the coach branded you used to have your own coach we never had our own coach at Manchester United you know the bus that you travel to games in Bayern Munich had their own coach everything was sort of like big it felt when you came to play Bayern Munich and you've got this big boardroom of Uli Heiners, Karl Heinz, Rümeniger how is that dynamic work at the club Because they're still there now, aren't they?

38:31They try to. They are still there. Karl-Heinz Rummenigge and Ole Hönes, they're still there. They go on forever at the club. Is it a good thing still that they're there? It is, it is, it is. I think it's first of all very important to have those kind of people who actually also played on that high level on the board. So we admire the Bundesliga in England for its ownership structure. the fact that the fans have a real say in the club but there is this problem of Bayern Munich winning the league I mean this is probably not the right time to ask this question because Leverkusen are going to win the league but 11 times in a row for me that, for us as well we admire the fan ownership but then we think it kills the league how do you see this when you're over it when you obviously are a Bayern Munich fan that this 11 is unhealthy it's anti-competitive do you see it that way?

39:27Not as much, not as much. I think that Bayern Munich, obviously, financially, they're very strong. Of course, if we would like to buy a player from Leverkusen, Bayern Munich can do that easily. And we have done that, actually, in the past. Look, like Lewandowski, Goetze, Hummels, they all played then for Bayern Munich in the end. But still, I believe that in certain games, it was possible that someone else could have beat Bayern Munich. but they haven't done it. Like I said, the last three, four years maybe, there were moments in the league where Bayern Munich struggled and the other teams didn't really use it.

40:07And Leverkusen now is using it. So that was also the truth. You said there about Bayern Munich can take usually whoever they want from another club, but they've tried to get... Bundesliga-wise. Bundesliga, yeah. But you tried to get Alonso, but he said no? I think so, yeah. What's your take on that? I don't know. It's also not easy to step into coaching role at Bayern Munich. Expectations are very, very high. But I also actually thought that he might think about the Liverpool situation as well. But maybe it's also smart not to step into the footsteps of Jurgen Klopp. Yeah. So and with Leverkusen, if he will win the league, he might win the cup.

40:57Yeah. And he's still in the Euroleague. So it's not and then to play next year Champions League and the way how they play. Yeah. They can go far in the Champions League for sure. So and still he is a young coach. He has time to to be coach in one of the best clubs in the world in the future for sure. So what I see, I have to talk about it, if it's good or bad. Exactly so I feel. If I get the ball played into me and I'm back to goal, I'll be like... Let them come. They lost the ball and we killed them.

41:34Did you like the sausage or not? I liked it. It was a bit... It wasn't my experience. It's different. Lighter. A bit like... Lighter, yeah. Yeah, lighter, a bit more... It boiled. I wasn't expecting boiled sausage. I was expecting this big, giant... Mmm, the bratwurst. Yeah, that's what I was expecting. This is the breakfast sausage, is it? Like a speciality. So here in Munich, it's the breakfast sausage, yeah? Yeah. You remember the chef with the grey hair? Mike. Is he still there? Mike the chef, no, he left. He left. He's a good guy, eh? Mike the chef. He was great. Did he do the sponge after with the custard?

42:13Yes. Yeah, I must say, that's what really... I really liked, they were all so nice, so polite. And even the people on the street, when they ask you, is it okay to bother you, can I have an autograph or something? Yeah. They don't make a hiding camera snap or something. And United fans, they don't really boo the team, they don't really criticize, they get upset, but they're very good in the stadium. And they have plenty of reasons for it, actually. Oh, they could have been, yeah, but they never really turn on the team, they always back the team. there yeah that that's amazing it's been difficult last 10 years because you're on television you're on television now and sometimes you have to be critical of your own club it's difficult how do you handle that you need to be so what i see i have to talk about it if it's good or bad exactly so i feel that's what you have to do i think um even if obviously you always want to talk nice about it but sometimes yeah but it is like that's the same when i talk about Kimmich when I tell him look I needed to talk to you about that because you tell me yeah you see so I see them they're super nice yeah they understand also like Thomas he also says like I understand but I also ask them what's their view you know how they see but you like fullbacks going into midfield doing the game yeah sometimes yes but not non-stop like I understand when Danny Alves went in yeah so just overload yeah and then goes back but But I think he's still a right fullback.

43:49Yeah. You? You are not a couple of right fullback. No. Get me out of midfield. If I get the ball played into me and I'm back to goal, I'll be like, get out of here. Yeah, but you had your strengths somewhere else. You know what I mean? But Scolese, your post goals, he posted on Instagram four weeks ago, get them fucking fullbacks out of midfield. Yeah. I mean, I understand I understand but sometimes it creates overload and that's how actually Barcelona was very strong so when we faced Barcelona back in the days I was like Jesus why do they have 13 players on the field but they did those kind of moves and then you as a midfield player were actually like Jesus I always told my wingers look if your right fullback moves into the center just follow him because Because I said to Joop Heinke, before we played in 2013, we played Barcelona in the semifinals.

44:49We beat them at home 4-0 and in Barcelona 3-0, I think. And I said to him, because I got smashed once very bad from Barcelona. Yeah. I think 5-0 at Nou Camp. Yeah. And there was this game where I was like, I wasn't a midfielder, I was like running and no chance to get the ball. Yeah, yeah. And stuff. So I said, Jürgen Hengis, please, can we just do one thing? That we have the same numbers in the midfield. As they do. Because I knew that I'm physically stronger than them. Yeah, yeah. Xavi, Iniesta. Yeah, yeah. Whoever came there. Same when we faced Spain. I was always thinking, why? Why do they dominate us so much?

45:32It has only tactical reasons. Because I can run faster than Xavi. I can. He has a very good first contact and passing, yes. but I can... Yeah. Match him in all the other areas. I can 100 % match him. Yeah. And so actually then I said, OK, just leave the two centre-backs free when they have the ball. Everyone come in to... Put Mantukic a little bit back. Yeah. We are fine. Let them come. Yeah. Then they came, they lost the ball and we killed them. It was Ribery, Robben. I was in the stadium that night. I did the game. Yeah? Yeah. Did you see how Ribéry and Robben ran? Yeah. You know, before the game I told them, look...

46:13They were good, eh? Ribéry and Robben together. If you... Together, yes. Oh, my God. But if they were not together, like, not friends... Were they not friends? Ah, they had sometimes this problem. I can see that, though. When Arjen came inside and he tried to shoot the ball and left, Frank was completely open. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's like selfish type. Yeah, yeah. Frank grew up on the street, like, you know, you have circumstances to see the... But when they played together, they were by far the best. But I told them before the game or even in the season, before I told them, look, guys, when David Alaba and Philipp Lahm make a tackle in the back, do they get applause from the stadium?

46:50They said, no. I said, OK, what do you think if you two, when you run back and you make a tackle, what do you think? Is the stadium giving you applause or not? They said, well, maybe. So then they, because they didn't have that in the beginning when they took Ryan. It wasn't natural for him to run back, was it? And when they ran back and win the duels against Dani Alves or Jordi Alba, stadium give applause, I was standing there. I was on the field literally like... And that gave them attention. And that's what they needed, you know. Sometimes it was tough for me because I got the ball, Arjen said to me, play the ball to the right.

47:30In half-time I walk in the tunnel to Dresden, Frank Ribéry comes to me and says, hey, please pass the ball to the left side. So I pass the ball to the left side, on the field. And Arjen says, hey, pass the ball to the right side. It was always like, but they wanted to have the ball. Yeah, competitive. Exactly, that's what I'm missing sometimes when I watch Sané or other players. They're not always ready. They're not getting angry, like in a natural way. You know? They've got the same personality or character. Correct, correct, correct. And they have to learn to be a little bit more bad, in a way.

48:08You don't have to do, like, Sonic or the Red Card against Austria. Don't do that. Just show, like, that you're there. Yeah. And that's what... This was Frank and Arjen had. Yeah. And that was amazing. Yeah. But we lost it a little bit, all these things, you know? Yeah. That's the set, I think. And I think 100 % we would have also had success at United with the pieces there. But... That's a good place to finish. We would have had success. No, I know.

48:58What it sounds like What it sounds like The Realness of God