Sir Jim Ratcliffe Interview: Amorim, Ten Hag, Finances, Stadium & The Glazers | The Overlap With Gary Neville

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2:03Right, let's do it. Let's go for it. Yeah.

2:11So I'm going to start with the end and ask you to sum up your first 12 months in charge at United. Review yourself. Right. Well, I mean, I think in a funny sort of way, it's gone as we anticipated it would. We didn't think the first year was going to be easy because we had difficult things to do. but I think the club is bigger than until you actually arrive in the club it's bigger than you think and the scrutiny is bigger than you anticipate because you get your school reports at the end of every day instead of at the end of every term I used to get a clip round here once every term by my mother but now I get a clip round here every day by the press so those things are sort of slightly slightly, you know, I suppose unanticipated or underestimated.

3:02But I think broadly where we are, which I know is a difficult place and people are not very happy about it at the moment, which is why I'm quite unpopular, it is where I didn't expect in a year of change that we'd be winning the Premier League, honestly. Are you finding it hard, the scrutiny, the attention, the criticism? Well, I used to enjoy picking a newspaper up in the morning, having a cup of coffee and a croissant, which is not quite so enjoyable anymore. But I think the way... I mean, we've all got our sensitivities, and it isn't pleasant to read some of the press coverage, but the way I get through it is that I believe what we're doing is the right thing, and I believe what we're doing has to be done to get United back to where United should be, which are the winning silverware and winning trophies and things like that.

3:58We have to go through this too. If you don't like where United have been for the last 12 seasons since Sir Alex retired, then I think, ergo, you have to accept there has to be a period of change, otherwise it's just going to continue. Change is always uncomfortable and unpleasant at times, and that's sort of where we are at the moment, unfortunately. Do you understand why the fans are angry? Obviously yesterday they protested at the Arsenal match. Do you understand where it comes from? Yeah, I think. Yeah, well, I'm a fan as well, remember, so, you know, fans are not going to be happy languishing down in the bottom half of the table.

4:38And, yeah, I get that and I sympathise, but I didn't think this year was going to be a walk in the park, you know. It was always going to be difficult. And if you look at the squad that Ruben's got available, he's only got half a squad, honestly. You just said that you're a fan as a fan, not as an owner when you go and watch the games and you have been watching in the last six or seven months, what do you make of the performances? Well I think I mean I've seen the performances under two, I don't know whether you're asking me about the previous Well under Eric and under Ruben now Yeah well obviously under Eric it was erratic I think is the best word I'd use there was some great performances, I mean when we obviously were in the FA Cup against Man City they all turned up and they played like they were in a cup final and then at other times Crystal Palace or whatever they didn't show up under Ruben what we've seen I think is it was difficult at the beginning and I sort of get that but then I think we've seen progress and I think some of the players that we bought in the summer you've seen them settle, I mean it's quite tough isn't it, I mean you spent your life playing there, it's not an easy league to play in and there's a lot of scrutiny and it's a tough, I mean look how but Zerksy got knocked about yesterday in the first half.

5:53He really got knocked about, didn't he? He wouldn't be used to that, playing in the Italian league. So it takes time for players to settle. But I think if you look at Ruben yesterday against Arsenal, he only had half a squad. How many players would most people recognise on the bench yesterday? It was hardly a name that you'd recognise. The guy that we brought on, Heaven, he was only 18, we only bought him three weeks ago from Arsenal, you know, and then we had Obi on there, who's only 16, I think, and he's played once for United. I mean, there is only half of them. I mean, I think if you look at the top eight most expensive players that we've got in terms of salary, four of them are not available to Ruben.

6:38If you did that with Liverpool or Manchester City, that's the cream of your team, half the cream of your team is gone, you know. so I think I think I've seen progress we saw a bit of a glimpse of the future I thought I thought we saw a glimpse of the future what in the second half you mean in the second half I thought they were quite cohesive you could see a bit of the game plan and the players played the hearts out for Manchester United and you could see it couldn't you you could see that delict tattle you could see the tattle that heaven made it really meant something to them. So you think the recruitment from last summer will come good?

7:18Yes. Yeah, yeah, I do. And how do you assess... But bear in mind, recruitment last summer, we didn't have the luxury of time to prepare for last summer, do we? Jason had been there three weeks, Omar had been there three days. We had the problem with the coach, a yes or a no, so we're involved in the coach and not involved in the coach. Did you involve the coach? Sorry? Did you involve the coach? Yeah, we did, yeah. So Eric signed a lot of those players last summer? No, he didn't, but he was involved in the discussion and the influence I mean you know at the end of the day a decision on a new player or a purchase isn't a decision of one person normally it's a group of people who influence that decision one way or another so yeah he did have a voice which is why they're one or two Dutch players Would you have sacked Eric if you'd have found another manager after the FA Cup final success?

8:09Because you were looking around Europe and scouring for a new manager

8:15it was too early for us to make a big decision in reality and we didn't we hadn't been together as a team for very long you know if you look Omar, Jason, myself and Dave we hadn't been together for very long it was just a matter of you know weeks and it's quite a big decision isn't it And also, it's quite difficult to, you know, I couldn't, it was quite difficult to extract, in that season when we arrived, Eric's performance from the structure around him. Because obviously the structure around him now is completely different. So if I look today, there's a really strong relationship and a really strong support culture for Ruben with Jason.

9:00So Jason and Ruben talk to each other two or three times a day. Omar speaks to Ruben every day. Every time I go to the match, I speak to Ruben. So, you know, there's a support structure there, and he's got his coaches and the physios and the doctor and everything else. But it was quite difficult to see whether, you know, what environment Eric was operating in. In other words, was the erratic performance a function of Eric or was it a function of the organisation? And we couldn't really get to the bottom of answering that question with sort of certainty, I suppose. So we gave Eric the benefit of the doubt.

9:38And you regret that, or do you feel...? Yeah, it was the wrong decision. We made the wrong decision, it was an error. So, yeah, I suppose in that sense I regret it. I think there was some extenuation of mitigating circumstances in having made that decision, but at the end of the day it was the wrong decision, so hands up, you know, me and Comper on that one. How do you assess Ruben's first four or five months? It's been tough in terms of results. and performances, but how do you assess, he's very honest. Yeah, he is honest, and I like that about, I think Ruben has done an excellent job, I really like Ruben, and I think in the circumstances in which he, I mean, he arrived mid-season, he didn't have time to train his players in the way in which he wants to play, he inherited a squad which he's had no influence on, and the squad isn't necessarily designed for the way in which he plays football, and English isn't his natural language, and he's never played in the Premier League before, and he's managing the biggest club in the world, and it's a tough place.

10:36I mean, Manchester United is a tough place. And he's young. You know there's a big one. And he's a young guy, yeah. So I think, you know, if you take all of that into consideration, I think he's done a remarkably good job. What part are you referring to there when you say good jobs? Obviously, the results have been poor. What are you referring to? Just generally the way in which he carries himself? Yeah, I think the way... And I think what he's got out of the players that he's got available, I think he's done well with. Do you? I do, yeah. I mean, which... If I look at the salary bill of the squad that's available to him, that salary bill is not the salary bill of Manchester City or Liverpool.

11:20Do you mean because of the injuries? It's a fraction of it. What do you mean? If you look at the salary bill of the players that are available to him that are not injured or not out on loan, because we've got Anthony out on loan, we've got Sancho out on loan, we've got Rashford out on loan, we've got Mason Mount, who hasn't really played in the last two seasons, we've got Luke Shaw who hasn't played in the last two seasons. So if you modify our salary bill for the players that are not available to Reuben, then our salary bill ranks as about mid-league, second half of the table. We're sort of level with the likes of a Nottingham Forest or Everton, not a Manchester City.

11:59So that salary bill, if you look at that salary bill, it's probably about£130 million. And we're talking about Liverpool has got a salary bill of£200, and Manchester City has got a salary bill of£300. So that's the squad that Ruben's playing with. So, you know, he's not got the Liverpool squad, he's not got the Manchester City squad, he's got the Manchester United squad. I mean, how many players did you recognise on that bench on Saturday? You know, they're all kids. Yeah, do you support what he's done with Rashford, with Anthony, with Sancho, and obviously even with Galactica, who's in and out of the team at the moment, but he seems to be, you support what he's doing with those players.

12:32Correct, I do. I think he's doing the right thing with the players. He has to be in charge of the dressing room. I mean, you played in the dressing room where the boss was the boss, wasn't he? At the end of the day. And he's got a set of principles, and he wants the players to abide by his set of principles, which is that you have to be totally and utterly committed to winning the next football match. That's what he wants. So if you abide by those principles, you potentially have a seat in the dressing room. Obviously a lot of these players were brought in before Ruben and yourself got into the club and do you feel like you're correcting the mistakes of previous recruitment cycles?

13:10Well, I don't really want to sort of... We've inherited a situation which we've inherited. It's mad, isn't it? Some of the contracts that have been given out... Yeah, there's some decisions that we clearly would not... I mean, and also, if you look, it's quite interesting, if you look at the players that we will buy this summer that we did not buy, in other words, we're paying for, you know, that's Anthony, we're buying Anthony this summer, we're buying Sancho this summer, we're buying Hoyland, we're buying Casemiro, we're buying Inanna. You mean still paying for them? Yeah, correct. I mean, the club also...

13:50You know, it's not a light, you know, it's not a light switch. In your day, if you bought a player, you bought a player, and that was it, wasn't it? The club owe nearly£400 million, don't they, on players that are still in the club,£390 million. Is that right, that number? Pass, I don't know the exact number. I know the bill that we will pay this summer is£89 million for players. Who have been signed previously. Previously,£89 million. So if we buy no players, we write a cheque for£89 million to sign. You mentioned Ruben's playing style before. He has got a rare playing style in terms of the system.

14:23Yeah. and I suppose I'm asking you the question next summer you're going to have to recruit to that specific system the wing backs the two players that play in behind Hoyland or behind the centre forward are you unequivocal that you're going to make that step and back Ruben and he's going to be here at the start of next season considering the results that have happened yep I'm unequivocal about that but bear in mind I am backing the management team because at the end of the day it's Omar it's Jason it's the management team that operate Manchester United Who appointed Ruben then? Who appointed Ruben?

14:57Omar and Jason and me. Made that decision? Yeah.

15:23be confident you have everything you need to keep your facility running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by. Grainger, for the ones who get it done. The market's uncertain, revenues tied, and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert, right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today.

16:06A Mochi moment from Mark, who writes, I just want to thank you for making GLP-1s affordable. What would have been over$1 ,000 a month is just$99 a month with Mochi. Money shouldn't be a barrier to healthy weight. Three months in and I have smaller jeans and a bigger wallet. You're the best. Thanks, Mark. I'm Myra Amid, founder of Mochi Health. To find your Mochi moment, visit joinmochi.com. Mark is a Mochi member compensated for his story. You buy a pair of socks, that's two socks. You buy a pair of Bombas socks, that's four socks. Because one purchased is one donated. Socks are the number one most requested clothing item in homeless shelters.

16:45So when you buy a pair of super comfortable Bombas socks, you're also donating a pair. Bombas customers have powered over 150 million donations. So Bombas would like to thank you 150 million times. But we only have like 30 seconds. Go to Bombas.com and use code AUDIO for 20 % off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S.com and use code AUDIO at checkout.

17:21What's the worst injury you've all had? I broke my nose in New Zealand, broke it on Saturday and played on a Wednesday. Breaking your nose is the worst thing ever. You can't not play. I had 14 stitches down the front there. I said, I don't need anaesthetic, just do it. And they're like legend. You're hard-ass, mate, hard-ass. Are we excited? Oh, yeah. Vicious rumour is we're recording a podcast called Stick to... Rugby. Stick to rugby, that's it, not football. Not football. I couldn't think of a better group of bald men that I'd like to hang out with. A brand new podcast that dives into the game we love like never before.

17:54Stick to rugby. We'll talk rugby, but not the usual chat. Mike Johnson, hard as ****. Get out of it. We'll cover the big talking points, but we'll share the great stories too. I lost once in Scotland. It was the worst day of my life. And then I appeared on the front page in the news of the world of Colin Wig.

18:12Look at Flats there, holding a ball. He won man of the match once and didn't touch the ball. Big opinions. The number of people playing rugby is going down and down, and that needs to change. And some wicked guests. We need to widen the audience a bit. Who have you got on your phone book? Jude Law, Ray Winston, Daniel Craig. Madonna. And that's a wrap. Wrap. This is the one rugby podcast you can't miss. Make sure you subscribe to Stick to Rugby, brought to you by Defender. Looking at what happened with Dan, obviously Dan came into the club. Yeah. and I mean I've worked with Dan he headed up a transformation at the FA whilst I was there and he's done it at other clubs what went wrong there because you chased him for eight months correct and he's done this type of job before of transformation cultural change why did that not work knowing Dan as I do well you may know Dan better than I do I'm sure you do but I don't want to go into the details of it because I don't think it serves any it doesn't serve much I mean, at the end of the day, it was chemistry, maybe a bit more than chemistry, but let's just say chemistry.

19:21And it didn't work. So with you or with the other management team? Just chemistry. And, you know, I think, again, I know it's a non-popular decision and it's seen as an error, which it was. And it was an error. but again I think slightly in our defence we did we did recognise it as as being something that would not work and therefore we decided we would make a change what would have been far easier because of the scrutiny that we knew that we would get in the media would have been to live with it but I wasn't prepared to live with it so I think you know and that's that has to be part of our mentality at Manchester even though we're having to make unpopular decisions if we think it's the right thing then we're going to do it and you know there's quite a lot of unpopular decisions i know uh you know the you know lunches and things like that you know they're unpopular decisions but yeah let's come on to those i think i want to talk to you about those things obviously 15 million pounds was spent to remove eric and dan which are expensive errors correct yeah i'm just going to take two or three uh examples 40 000 pound was taken away from the former players association Now, that's not the players that played under Stralitz Ferguson or even in the last 10 years.

20:38They're players from the 1960s and 70s. Yep. I look at that and have a little bit of knowledge of the club, obviously, having been there for 25, 30 years. I just look at that and I think it's£40 ,000 from players who are giving a lot back to the local community, the obviously big supporters of United. Why not look at that£40 ,000 and put Harry Maguire and Bruno in a dinner? Sell 1 ,000 tickets for£30,£40,£50, raise the money through a dinner, maybe do a raffle and auction give the ex-players their money and do it in a way whereby you're not looking like it's a cruel decision which it is, why would that not be looked at as a shopping list of things oh that's got a health warning to it, they're former players they're people who do a lot of good for them I'm not talking about the sort of, this isn't the players in my era, the players from the 70s and 80s why would that decision be made?

21:26Well nobody suggested that because I would have supported that but Jim that alarms me because if people aren't suggesting that to you at the club, then... I don't think... The people at the club are not... They're not... You know most of the people at the club. They're not cruel or heartless people. But I think... But it's£40 ,000. Yeah, I know, but... Harry and Bruno can just turn up for a dinner, raise£50 ,000,£60 ,000,£70 ,000 for them. Why didn't the current players put a grand each in for them? Things like that, if it came to me and I was looking at a decision like that and these guys who've been putting so much time into the club over so many years, it just looks...

22:06Why can't we reinstate that? Well, maybe we can. I don't know. I can have a look at it. I'm not aware of that level of... Honestly, I'm not aware of that level of detail, to be honest with you. I think, though, if you just step back just for a second and look at the bigger... I mean, the philosophy is if you look after the pennies, the pounds look after themselves, right? So I don't think we can say, well, we can overlook the little things or just attack the big things. I don't like that because that confuses people and ultimately people then start to make the wrong decisions about the big things.

22:43And I think that philosophy of watch the... And spend the money like it's your own money. But you're right, it does have... The club has got community responsibilities as well and it is sort of part of the community. But if I can say that Manchester United has lost money for the last seven years, and it's something like in the last four years alone it's lost£330 million. It's horrific. That's a third of a billion pounds in the last four years. During that period of time, it's been recruiting lots of new people. on top of a workforce which was already enormous. So, you know, we finished up with 1 ,150 people.

23:35We've increased the cost base of running. So if you look at a couple of really simple numbers, in the last seven years, since 2016, we increased the cost of running a club, which are the operating costs of running the club, so just the people and the fixed costs, if you like. So all the costs, excluding the player costs. we increased the cost by£100 million in the last, what, seven years, since 60. And the player salary bill increased by£100 million. So that went from£150 to£250, this went from£170 to£270. And in that period of time, the top line, the revenue, increased by only£100 million. So£170 million deficit.

24:19So you just finish up with a situation which is on ten, it doesn't work. If you spend, every year you spend more money than you earn, ultimately that's the road to ruin. And unfortunately, and it's not, until we've mentioned it a couple of times today, it's not known, Manchester United would have run out of money at the end of this year. Christmas, November this year, the club runs out of cash. Do you realise how... That's sort of quite a big thing. But do you realise how bad that is to hear? I know that's a fact, by the way, because over the last two or three years, I think the fans who obviously got an interest in the business side of the club have been tracking the club's desperate situation, the mismanagement over the last ten years.

25:02This is the richest football club in the world when it comes to revenue. Yeah. But because of... Top three. Top three. Top three. Three of us up there, yeah. Top three in the world. Yeah. And it's having to cut£40 ,000 from ex-players and now removing food from members of staff in the canteen. But the alternative isn't very tenable, is it? Which is the club goes bus for Christmas. We don't want that. No, absolutely. We don't want that. No, we absolutely don't want that. But we also have to, I think, make decisions in light of the impact that they're going to have. Because United, as you know, you're a fan, has a soul, has a heart.

25:40And I think when it comes to food and Manchester United staff being fed, The idea of me eating differently than my compatriots who are in the office, the kit men, the groundsmen, the people who, to be fair, the sort of my friends at the club because I was in there for 25 years, I find that difficult from an inequality perspective.

26:00However, I mean, I get that, Gary, and I understand that, but it's, you have to deal with, we can't put our head in the sand. we have to deal with a problem and it's a big problem not a small problem because the numbers I've given you you know I've just given you the big numbers they're not small these are not they're not plenty of numbers and as you say this is the biggest club in the world and if it just goes on year after year after year spent what happens if you spend more money than you earn is every year you have to go to the bank and borrow more money so every year I know is that I know that's how you feel about lunches, but we have to go to the bank down the road and we have to borrow the money to give everybody a free lunch.

26:4495 % of people in the UK don't get a free lunch. I don't get a free lunch. I've never had a free lunch. Nobody in England gets a free lunch. And the vast majority of people don't get a free lunch. It's a nice perk if you get one, but in the modern world, most people don't get a free lunch. And at the moment, Manchester United can't afford to give people free lunches because they have to go to the bank and borrow it. And at the end of the day, it's fans' money, isn't it? The fans are the guys that are paying. for these free lunches, because they're the guys who buy the tickets, they're the guys who pay for the TV subscriptions, and they're the guy who buys the shirts.

27:14Those are the three bits of income that Manchester United have got. So I sort of think of that money that we're spending at Manchester United. It's not my money, it's the fans' money. Should I be spending the fans' money on a free lunch? Or should I be spending the fans' money on a new player who might win some silverware? That's how I look. and you may say, well, that's a bit... Can we not do both? No, I think the answer to that is yes, we can, but we cannot do that today. I don't, honestly... You mentioned... Because I think otherwise you're trying to draw a line, aren't you? We can have a free lunch and then, oh, maybe that guy can, you know, drive an S-Class down to London or...

27:54You get all these blurry lines about, you know, what's acceptable, what's not. I mean, at the moment, you know, Two of those last seven years, we've lost£100 million of cash. I mean, they're big, big numbers, and we have to stop that. And, you know, we have to get Manchester United's... If you look at the sequence of things we're trying to do at the club, we've got to put the house in order, in other words, put it on a sound financial footing. So in the future, we can maybe take some more generous decisions. But before you can get the house in order, you have to put the management team in place, because otherwise you start making the wrong decisions about what and who because you've got to make what decisions and who decisions when you're cutting the cost, don't you?

28:40You want to keep the good guys, lose the guys that are not quite so good, all those sorts of things. So you've got to put your management team in place. That takes time because everybody in football gets gardening leave. So the last member of that team arrived last week, which is Mark Armstrong from PSG, who's the commercial guy. Management team, then you've got to get the house in order, the financial structure. and then it's all about recruitment after that isn't it it's all about you know Manchester United in the last you know since Alex Sir Alex retired spent a billion on players which is pretty much the same as Manchester City or Liverpool in fact Liverpool hasn't spent a billion but we haven't spent it that well so that at the end of the day that then becomes the absolutely number one issue for the club is to get recruitment right but and that needs data analysis and all that type of stuff which we haven't got as you know but you know some of the better clubs have and then I think in three years time or five years time Manchester United will be the most profitable club in the world it'll have if we go down this road to the new stadium it'll have the most iconic stadium in the world and it'll be winning silverware.

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31:26If you want to know more about the game's greatest characters, matches that change football forever, and the stories behind the bribes, the bans and the on-pitch battles, listen to It Was What It Was. It's the Overlaps Football History podcast, presented by two of the world's best football journalists, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper. Each week we dive deep into the key moments in football history that have shaped the game as we know it. From notorious managers to pivotal matches, we go behind the scenes to bring you the best tales the game has to tell. Stories including one of football's most infamous match fixers, its first global superstar, or the rise and fall of Sir Alf Ramsey's England.

32:03Join us at Football University. Take a journey through football's amazing history, subscribe to It Was What It Was Now. You've obviously talked a lot about the plight of the club in the last few words, which I find scary with the amount of revenue the club generates. but you're obviously in partnership with the Glazer family. You wanted to take the club on your own but obviously you've ended up with a minority stake. They've made these decisions over the last 10 years and you've put a few hundred million pounds into the club. You're the first person in the last 25 years to put money into the club.

32:38They've taken nearly 200 million pounds out in cash, in dividends. They've put a lot of debt onto the club, I think about 730 million pounds, which means that the club has an interest bill every year of£30-40 million. £35, yeah. £35 million, and it's going to go up potentially in a couple of years when it matures. You're an incredible businessman. You will understand alignment in business more than anybody. Your money's being whittled away and spent... It's gone. Exactly. Your money's going at this moment in time. Yeah, yeah, no, most of that's gone. Would it not be a question to sort of pop across the board table to say, you know, look, guys, can you not just rock up with a little bit of cash yourselves and put some in for once.

33:18They haven't put in for 20 years and they've taken nearly 200 million out. It's not the solution just to keep throwing money at the problem. No, I know you have to correct the finances. You've got to get the house in order. If you look at the reason the debt is at the level it is at the moment, which is... 730 million. Yeah. Plus the player costs. 650 plus a bit of overraft, yeah. But that's increased by 330 million in the last four years because the club's been spending so much more than it's been earning. Because they won't put money in. No, that's just because he's spending more. I know, but if you make mistakes...

33:50Because it's a bloated organisation and made mistakes on recruitment. You're a far better businessman than anybody in this room and a lot of people in this country. You'll pay for your mistakes. You're the type of guy that I think would pay for your mistakes. Why do they not pay for their mistakes that they've made in the last ten years? Put some equity back in. The fans are now having to pay increased ticket prices. People are losing their jobs. People are not getting fed meals anymore. But former players are having money taken away from them. and they've took£200 million out. I know they're your business partners, I know you can't criticise them, I know where you're at with this, but I also...

34:24There's an element here of it, it's staring us in the face. I can't... I don't think the solution to the problem at Manchester United is throwing money at it. But it's not increasing the debt? If the debt's gone up by£300 million... The debt will come down. If we do... If we're successful in what we're doing at the moment, the debt will naturally... Like the debt has gone up over the last four years because it's been losing money. If we're making money, the opposite will happen. What we need to do is make the club... Because, I mean, two things have happened with the club. One... Well, a few things have happened with the club, but the costs of running the club have gone through the roof.

35:03The expenditure on the squad has gone through the roof and the salary bill has gone through the roof. And the performance has declined, so... That's all we've done. They bet the bank. They bet the bank on Champions League, but it hasn't happened. so we spent a fortune and i'm sure that conversation went on every year but i can't spend their money for this not my that's not my i mean we we have a very professional relationship with with the glazer family and to be honest they let us get on with it uh which we are doing at the moment you're providing a shield for them though you're now starting to get the flack that they've been getting i'm getting quite a lot of flack yeah no no jim seriously i went to fulham last sunday you know just as a fan i wasn't working again it wasn't on sky and i'm sat there in the crowd and you don't actually when you're in the gantry hear everything because you've got the earphones on you can't taste on the game and i was thinking you're getting starting to get no quite a lot the slipstream of their mess and you're getting fired at now you're a target now for the fans when actually when you came in you think about the perception when you came in now you'll get in their flack you provided an umbrella over their heads yeah it's true but i mean change is always uncomfortable isn't it people never like check well and it's all these things that It needed change.

36:14It has needed change. But change is all that... Human beings don't like change. They like the status quo. They much prefer if people stick their head in the sand and just assume it'll all go away, but it won't. So, you know, change requires some unpopular decisions, and I think I have to accept that I'm going to be unpopular. I don't know how long I'll be unpopular. Maybe I'll be unpopular for a long period of time. But I think it's worth being unpopular to fight our way through the changes that are necessary to get Manchester United back to where it should be. And hopefully the attitudes will change a bit if we come out the other side with a successful outcome.

36:56But I'm not here to... I mean, I know a lot of people have a problem with the Glow's family and what have you. But rightly so, Jim. To an extent, but remember... They've run the club. The problems you've talked about running the club, the£270 million that has been increased have been under their stewardship, the poor performance, the poor recruitment, the debt, the increasing debt, it's all on them. However, I think... Manchester United 20 years ago had the best stadium in the country, the best training ground in the country, the best team in the country, and were debt-free. We're going to be back there.

37:28We will get back there. But they are 3 ,000 miles away, and they gave management at Manchester United a lot of rope. you know if you look at some of the other characters in English football who are owners that they and you know them very well I mean they're heavily involved in all the detail of running the club aren't they in the management and what have you I mean they gave management an awful lot of right too much right obviously but you know the management the previous two teams of management have to take a lot of the blame for the decisions they made of that club, you know. They have to, I'm afraid.

38:03It's not just that, the glaze of hammer. But they have been the owners in that period. Ultimately they're, but they've not been involved in the level of detail that, you know, the likes of... Well, that's negligence. You're involved in the level of detail here now, and you're having to correct their mistakes. If they've not overseen the club in the last ten years to a point whereby it's running out of cash, that's negligence. You know that better than anybody. Well, I don't, I'm looking backwards I'm trying to look forwards. Let's try and do that. I look forward. I try to look forwards and I I mean I think ultimately we'll come out of this difficult period and we'll find ourselves in a you know in a much sunnier place.

38:45I do. I mean otherwise I couldn't deal with what I'm having to deal with at the moment you know because it's not very nice when you when you go home to Manchester and you've got people saying some quite unpleasant things that's not very that's not very nice I don't you know I don't need that really to be honest at my age. Why are you doing this? Because I really like Manchester United. Manchester United has been my boyhood club. And I believe that we can sort it out. If I didn't believe it, I wouldn't do it. I'd sell it to the Guitars or something. I think we'll get there with Manchester United.

39:13Manchester United is the greatest football club in the world. It's the world's favourite football club. It's the biggest football club. Everywhere I go on the planet, there are Manchester United supporters who want to come and talk. Everywhere I go. I mean, last summer we crossed the border between Mongolia and China. We were the first Europeans to cross the border from Mongolia to China. And as soon as we crossed the border, we were surrounded by Manchester United support. The customs guys, they all wanted photos. They didn't want to look at my passport. They just wanted to take a photograph, you know.

39:43So it's an amazing club. And it's just had this miserable time for 12 seasons, hasn't it, since Alex and David Gill retired. and I'd like to see, I mean, maybe it sounds a bit arrogant that I think I can take it from where it is to where it should be, but, I mean, that's what I believe, that we can, it's not me either, it's, you know, it's me, it's Omar, it's Jason, it's Dave, it's Colette, it's, you know, the other guys that you don't really see, you know, Gary and Mark Armstrong and Roger Bell and, you know, it's a really, it's quite a co - we had a board meeting last week and it was a really good, cohesive board meeting, with a really good group of people who were all really, really focused on getting Manchester United to the right place.

40:26But it's the first time we've had a board meeting since I arrived on the 1st of January where we've had the full team in place. And it was a great board meeting. So, you know, people expect instant gratification in the modern world, don't they? But this is, you know, of all football clubs, this is the supertanker. It's huge, and it just takes time. One thing that the fans are most worried about at the moment is ticket prices. What message have you got for them? Can you give them some comfort? Obviously the prices have gone up in certain areas for£66 to£66 and there's no concessions now. Are we going to see ticket prices increase again next season?

41:12A little bit, yes, we will, but not a lot. How much buy do we know? No, not yet. We'll know in a couple of weeks. It's not going to be a big amount. But what factors are in that decision? So let's say the club's losing money, because the fans are going to be absolutely livid if the ticket prices go up again, and it's obviously happened, will have happened twice in a very short period of time. OK, so my guidance to the management team is that, you know, we have to look after the faithful supporters, and we have to value the fact that the support of those supporters at the game is worth points, which it is, doesn't it?

41:56Because the more... Who are the faithful supporters and who are the... What do you mean by it? Because they're all faithful, aren't they? I mean, they all turn them every... The stadium's full every week. The faithful supporters are the supporters who've got a season ticket and they go to the games. And the faithful supporter is the guy who's got a season ticket, he goes to the top six games, but he also goes to see the other games as well. He doesn't just pick the top three games and then suddenly stick it on to somebody else for the other games. In my view, that's a proper supporter. I don't know whether you agree with that, but that's where I am.

42:26So, you know, because... So, I think... And it is worth points. If you look at the Cup, you look at the Stretford end, that's worth points, isn't it? The more intimidating that atmosphere, the louder... We saw it in the second half. against Arsenal, I mean, that really lifted the team in the second half. I thought the fans were fantastic on Sunday. So the ticket pricing has to be fair and it has to be affordable to the local people. And there are different, you know, we're talking about some people who live in Manchester, there may be some people who come across from Hong Kong or come up from London or something like that.

43:11It's a different group of people, really, in a way. So I think the ticket pricing can be different depending upon who we're targeting. And then you've got the younger people. You're looking to structure ticket prices, basically. You're looking to structure it. Yeah, and we should do that. But if you look at the income for Manchester United, it comes from three places. It comes from TV revenues, it comes from merchandising, selling shirts, all that type of stuff, and sponsorship. And it comes from ticketing. And you have got inflation, so we're going to finish up with 700 people at Manchester United, and we have to give them a pay rise.

43:46So, you know, ticketing has to contribute a little bit extra each year. But, you know, I think there's a discussion going on about could we freeze the prices for under-16s. Those types of discussions we're having at the moment. What's fair? What's affordable? But we've also got a hole in the finances, you know, which we need to fill. I know we got we got a lot of criticism whenever it was two or three months ago on ticket pricing you know that£66 thing but that I mean just to put that in context and so you may you may still criticise me or us maybe I don't know I mean it was a club decision it wasn't my decision but I didn't know much about it but that was 500 tickets out of 75 ,000 that people returned to the club, they bought the ticket, and they returned 500 tickets because they wanted their money back.

44:49And those 500 tickets were tickets which had been subject to a discount, either because they were a young person or an old person. And the club received those 500 tickets which people sent back because they didn't want to go to the game. They gave those people their money back and then they sold the tickets at face value rather than discounted prices for 500 tickets, that's all. And the face value was£6 ,600. So that's what the club did. So it wasn't a huge thing that the club did. It wasn't 10 ,000 tickets or 5 ,000 tickets, 500 tickets. And they were tickets which had been issued at a discount to people, which I think is a good thing for us to do.

45:27But those people said, we don't want to go to the game, we want our money back. Then the club received the 500 tickets, sold them for£6 ,600. good that has now been reversed so we don't do and I have you know disaster at the time was it was a PR disaster that's a catastrophe but I'm not sure that that fact I've just given you know is really described terribly well because when you hear that that's not the biggest deal in the world when you think of all the things that you know I just want to stop because you said something during it was a small piece you said I wasn't aware of the decision he said he wasn't quite across the detail of the 40 ,000.

46:01I wouldn't expect you to be. No, I can't be. To be honest with you, I have businesses myself and I wouldn't expect to be involved at that level of decision, but you've got to make sure the people underneath you understand the magnitude of decisions that are being made in the club, because it reflects upon you. They're going to come for you. Yeah, which they are doing at the moment. But, you know, you don't get it all right all the time. One huge positive. I've sat on a task force. Are we moving on to a positive? I thought we'd get it for you. We've got a minute left, so let's look at something really good.

46:40I said it would be a tough interview, didn't I? You did. The stadium, I sat on the last task force committee meeting on Friday and I had a glimpse of what's coming, obviously, and it looks absolutely spectacular. And, you know, I've been shouting about the fact that for me, for years, there are non-negotiables with United a great training ground, an amazing stadium the best in class, the football sometimes you know it's going to be up and down because that's the nature of football but we weren't always successful in my childhood how excited are you by that and is it deliverable? It's definitely deliverable but I think it needs to be set in context again I think

47:23if you take the view I'm sure it's your view as well that it's the greatest football club in the world, then if it's going to build a new stadium, it should be a new stadium that's befitting the greatest club in the world. And also a stadium that befits the greatest league in the world, because the Premier League is the greatest league in the world. And at the moment, if you look at the Premier League, we've got some great stadiums, but we don't have a Bernabeu, do we? And we don't have a Nou Camp, the new Nou Camp. We don't have that in the Premier League, although it's the greatest league in the world.

47:53And also if you look at the north of England, the north of England has won 10 Champions League finals and London has won two. So there's quite a few reasons there to have the world's most iconic football stadium in the north of England at the world's greatest club. And I think, but the thing that puts it in context, which I think everyone has to understand, is that we've got two options. we can rebuild the existing stadium or refurbish the existing stadium or we can build a new one. The only basis upon which we can build a new one is if it is part of this government regeneration scheme for South Manchester because we can't afford to regenerate Southern Manchester.

48:42That's too big a bill for the club. So we can build the stadium. We don't need any government funding for that stadium. But it has to be the underpin for the regeneration. and the government have come out when was it, three or four weeks ago Rachel Roos, the Chancellor, came out with her growth plan for the future which have got these three primary growth projects one was Heathrow, one was Oxford Cambridge, sort of Silicon Valley and the third one was the regeneration of southern Manchester which she said would be the shining example of growth in this country and it would be the biggest regeneration projects in Europe but in a regeneration project you know, if you look at the Olympic Village in London and all that sort of thing, there has to be a focus or a nucleus.

49:26Otherwise, all you're doing is building a housing estate and a shopping centre. And that doesn't normally end well. So I think that if the government go ahead with their regeneration project on a scale, you know, that sort of befits the north of England, because there's been a huge number. I mean, the government have had all sorts of regeneration projects in London. They've had the Olympic Village. they've got Canary Wharf, they've got the O2, they've got Wembley, they've got Kingscrotts, all sorts of... But they don't go to the north very often. So if they do this really well and properly, then I think we should underpin that with the world's most iconic football stadium.

50:05And I won't say much more, but Norman Foster, who also is a Mancunian and is the world's greatest architect, in my view, really has created the most iconic... Well, you've seen it. It's incredible. Absolutely incredible. And it would be marvellous if Manchester United could go down that road and in five years' time or six years' time have that stadium. It would be fabulous. And great for the Premier League, great for the north of England. We could hold England games there, the Champions League final there. And I think by this summer we'll have a best-in-class training centre, I think, where Carrington's going to finish up his final.

50:43I don't know whether you've seen it yet. No, but I've seen the plans for it. You've seen the plans. That's going to be fantastic. So we'll have a great training centre, we would have the world's greatest stadium. It won't be a small stadium. And it will be a very profitable club. So the vision for the future for Manchester United is fantastic. But we're in the trough at the moment, at the difficult face. Jim, let's end on that. One thing I would say is that for 25 years, the Glazer family haven't spoken. and you are going through a challenging time at this moment in time. To be fair, you are communicating, you do speak, which I think is a start.

51:21The football club's owners need to communicate to the fans in good times and in bad times. They've never had communication at United, so I commend you for that. We have to face the music a bit, really. I know it's been a bit difficult for the club and for the supporters, but at the end of the day, we absolutely want the same thing as the supporters. That's our only objective in life, is to see Manchester United winning silverware again. Good stuff. Thank you. Thanks, Jim. Thank you very much. Thank you.

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