Ten Hag Speaks Out, Lisandro Martinez Injury & City's Punishment Leaked? | Overlap Daily

0:00Overlap Daily is brought to you by our title sponsors SkyBet and SkyVegas. This is a Global and the Overlap production.

0:30and Hooperzine A to support focus and memory, and it's caffeine-free. So when you're deep in the work, AlphaBrain helps support enhanced productivity and tune-out distractions. Get focused on what matters. Shop AlphaBrain now at onnit.com. Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like.

1:07And that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average$21 with insurance and some pay as little as$0 depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments. You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality, licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average.

1:45See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com. slash start now. That's growtherapy.com slash start now. growtherapy.com slash start now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. This is Hannah Berner from Giggly Squad. O-Pill is the first over-the-counter daily birth control pill available in the U.S. Let's be real, getting a birth control prescription is not always easy and it's so much admin. In fact, about a third of women face barriers to access prescription birth control between scheduling appointments missing work class or just trying to exist it's a lot but now opil is putting birth control in our control opil is a daily birth control that's fda approved full prescription strength and estrogen free and 98 effective when used as directed grab it online or at most major retailers no prescription or doctor's appointment needed so if you're thinking about birth control check out opil to see if it's right for you Use code Giggly for 25 % off your first month of OPILL at OPILL.com.

2:52That's code Giggly at OPILL.com. Birth control in your control. We love to see it. Why can't we get AI to production? Our competitors are all ready. How do we keep data secure? When do we actually see ROI? All this talk about AI. But talk doesn't transform businesses. AWS AI cuts through the noise. making ai easier to securely deploy and scale with ready to use agents and the broadest set of ai tools and services you can build buy or partner your way stop overthinking start building aws ai is how welcome oh look you've not been in yet and this is nice if anybody's got a book that are on the shelves.

3:39Oh, well. Yeah. It's not me. But you need, well, you need a book. I need a book. Oh, look. Look, thanks. Last week we had, like, breakfast-y pastries, but this, this could cause problems. Someone's gone all out with chocolates here. I know, I'm going to go for fruit. Oh, the healthy option. Wow. I like that. For now, anyway. I was going to say, it's a good option, though. I know. Do you notice I've come in Villa colours for you? No, I thought that. I was thinking you'd come in Aston Villa today. Yeah, I didn't realise, and then suddenly I was like... We'll have to talk a little. Villa, won't we?

4:05We will talk a little bit about Villa. Of course. Not about tea. We have to talk about tea. It's been the biggest topic. I know. Literally, when I say for the last week, I think that the production team are talking of tea. This is what they're talking about. That's right. They are. Zoe actually gets a cup of tea, does he? Did you want a cup of tea? You can absolutely have a cup of tea. I don't want a cup of tea. I'd like to be asked if I want a cup of tea. You've done it all wrong. I've done it all wrong. You had to ask. You did ask me. We created a group, right, thinking, all right, the old football topics.

4:38See, here we go. And he came in two footage straight away with Tetley's or Yorkshire. Nothing about football. It's truth. Do you know we actually need a phone in, I think. We have Yorkshire on stick to football. We should have a poll. Yeah, a little poll. Can we get a poll up? Yeah, but the problem is you're on the wrong side of the debate. Why? Because you've gone Tetley's. That's the right side. No. That's controversial. Hold on a minute. Are you saying you're Yorkshire? I'm not Yorkshire. I am actually Lancashire, which I feel Tetley's is more kind of... But I'm that side of the Pennines. But Yorkshire tea.

5:09Definitely Yorkshire tea. All I know is... And really, really strong. Tiny bit of milk. Yeah, this is strong. Look at that. I made it strong. Look at that. Yeah, that's a better cup of tea. See? It's still a funny colour. Unbelievable. Sometimes it's London water, isn't it? Would you like to try a Tetley tea? Have you got Tetley? Yeah, that's well done. That's Tetley. Are you now looking at me saying it's not? I was just making sure. Yeah, just making sure. Yeah, it's fine. But Ashley thought, because we've worked together quite a bit, and Ashley thought, he's like, you don't drink tea? And I was like, no, I don't drink tea out of my house because I'm really fussy about tea.

5:43I do think you're just coffee, that's why. Because I only drink coffee when I'm out of my own house if I don't have control. But we do offer you a coffee when you get here. You did, I didn't want one. What control are we talking that you need? What is it why you don't have tea outside the house? Because I'm very specific about how I like my tea. Can you update us on this? Very, very strong tea. Yeah. With properly boiling water and tea bag out and then a tiny bit of milk. So basically what you're saying is whoever's made you a cup of tea outside your house hasn't made it right. No, and sometimes, sometimes...

6:18Do you want me to make you one? Do you want to do a taste test? It's literally there. It's up to you. I don't know if you can handle the judgment. I think we've got to now. Can you handle the judgment? I can take criticism. And do you know the other reason as well is because I'm weird about how I like my tea, I don't like asking for it because I'm like, can I have it and can I have it really strong and with a tiny bit of milk and then it starts to become really... Really strong, tiny bit of milk. It's not hard. It's not hard. That is easy. Let's see. If you do say so yourself. Yeah. It's not bad.

6:49Let's see. We'll find out, won't we? Thank you. Thanks, Kieran. This is it now. Be careful. Oh, mate, it might be funny. I can't drink that. I'm joking. You've got to be shy in that. I can't do it. Can you? No, no, no. I can't. I was going to wind you up. That's what I couldn't do. It's a good cup of tea. It's a good cup of tea, Kieran. You don't have to say that just because he's made it. You said you were going to send him out to make him another one. Let me taste it properly. Yeah, properly, please. Look. I don't mind. I can... You'll smell it in her mouth. That's lovely. thanks i'll take the whole bottle welcome to the overlap daily brought to you by sky vegas making sure the entertainment never stops between games right let's get into today's episode

8:00Ashley. Hi. A point. A point at Elland Road against Leeds United. Is it the stepping stone to a bright new future for Manchester United? Well, we hope so. It is one of them where it's a tough place to go. And under the circumstances. Exactly. That's what I was going to say. You know, after Madrid and how things have started, it was tough. It's been tough for Michael. but I think going to Leeds I think he set up a team in a way that you weren't going to lose you don't want to lose I think there would have been so much more heat on Michael and the team if they had lost so it was one of them things that they got themselves ahead in the game and I'm there looking at it and thinking they need to score a second goal they need to get another goal to go on and win that game because Leeds were definitely going to come out at half-time, after half-time, and say, we're going to get ourselves back in the game because of how they've started, the way they're playing, the way that they've got confidence instead of Man United have.

9:06So it was... I would say it's a good point, but it's not great. And there's tougher games they've got coming up. So it's a stepping... Yeah, it's a stepping stone. It's all right. Yeah, it's OK. All right, I know, which is not really a headline. No, of course not. It's fine. Yeah, it's fine, that was it. But you're talking about the heat on Michael Carrick, who you played with for a long time and you know well. I just, with the Martinez comments, and you were working on the game, so you were there and you kind of, you heard the interview coming in live. Well, everybody, I was doing radio, and my WhatsApps were going off, and I was like, what's he said?

9:48And I couldn't hear anything, so I'm kind of half going, I don't know, I think Lissandro Martinez has said it. Yeah, I think he said that. But everybody I've heard talking about it who played has been really critical of the timing of it, the fact that there's noise from inside the dressing room that shouldn't be made public. And yet, I think it might have helped Michael Carrick. I think it might be helpful. You know, I think you're... Actually, hearing you say that, I'm one of the players that was like, wow, emotions are running high. the timing of the interview was a bad time to do it but then I half look at the interview and I'm like okay we get that you want players we understand that but you're a player so you can't come out and say that it's not for us as an ex-player like if I looked at a squad that I was in and thought yeah of course we need players I'm not going to turn around and say do you know what I think players need to be added and I think upstairs need to change and they've done this wrong.

10:53You're not going to do that. How do you go in the dressing room after that? Oh, listen, if I was in the dressing room, you wouldn't have come in there, put it that way. And I think that's why, I think you saw Ahmad. He might have aimed it at Nessandro Martinez. He might not have, but I'm kind of sure that's what he was saying, the disgrace part. Right, you think that was about the interview rather than about the... I think it was about the interview that had just been seen. but like you say, I think it was it helped Michael Carrick at the time because of the way the game went It didn't help him in terms of his interview because he came out and said, what do you make of Martinez's comments and he went, I haven't heard them and I'm sure the press officer was there updating him on it he's the manager, he's not going to come out and say well, this is this right there and then because he said at the time he was wrong so I think it's one of those things where Michael would have have seen it.

11:49The other players would have seen it. And I think if you had seen Yuri Tuleman's interview afterwards as well, I think his face told a thousand stories. Yeah. Because he's one of the players that come in in the summer. So this is one of the players that Lissandro Martinez is talking about. Yeah. And I think you could see on his face, he was like, I didn't get the impression that Martinez was saying the players who came in aren't good enough. I think it was more about we wanted more of them, I think. That was the impression I got from him. And of course, you get like you understand that and it's one of the things where like of course you know the squad needs to be better and you need to buy what they're going to buy like I said after the game they're not going to be able to buy a whole new squad yeah like we know they need players in defense of course that's understandable and weird that a defender which is the area that needs to be strengthened yeah comes out and says we need more players and you're like you you that That might actually be the end of your time of play.

12:45Do you know what? For me, if you're playing well, then of course you've got a point to turn around and say what you think. But even still, as a player, it's not for you to turn around and say that. So I think the timing of it and how Lissandro Martinez comes out and speaks in that way is wrong. But then on the flip side, like you said, it took the heat off my character for the rest of the week because the week was talked about, Sandro Martinez's comments, and leading into that Leeds game, I don't think Michael would have wanted any more heat after the Atletico Madrid game. Of the managers you've played under, how many of them do you think would have played Martinez after those comments?

13:32I don't think there's many that... Well, I know the boss for sure would have. Yeah. I don't think he would have even travelled to Leeds. Fergie. There's no way that Sir Alex would have probably let him on the bus. Maybe not let him in the training ground. But it's... It would have then just created more of a story that I then think Michael Carrick wouldn't have needed, wouldn't have wanted. It was said that, obviously, all week that everything was Lissandro Martinez. So instead of creating more of a hype around it, oh, he's been left out, it would be the talk before the game, and then it would be the talk after the game, play him.

14:13Okay, come off at half-time with an injury. Oh! Is he in? Oh! Yeah, well, you know. If anybody's listening rather than watching, you're making a little rabbit ears. If he's injured, then okay, understandable. If he doesn't obviously play in the Como game. But, yeah, I'm not sure. Going to Leeds away is a tough place. And the week that you've had, are you able to back that? Are you injured? Yeah, possibly. We'll see. But yeah, it was one of them that Michael would have seen that he didn't want anything more to come back on him. And I think that's why he played. It's relatively quiet around Manchester United.

14:53Is it? For Manchester United this week, in the kind of context of how heated things have been. But Antonio Conte is... I don't know whether it's being linked or is linking himself with the Manchester United job. I'd go with the second one, I think, linking himself to the job, saying that big clubs, you know, he wants to get the history back and whatnot. Now, I've worked underneath him at Inter Milan. He's crazy, by the way. Like, he is crazy. In what way? The way that he's... He's a bit like Diego Simeone on the sidelines. Yeah. Like, you hear him non-stop. Yeah. And obviously, when I went there, it was COVID times as well.

15:36so there's no one in the stadium so you're hearing me for more and it's one of them that training is intense, there's a lot of running That was the big thing when he was at Chelsea wasn't it? There were like the double training sessions and he was playing one way and running these shadow training sessions where they were trying something else out Yeah there was a lot that he'd done like I say the training sessions were a lot of 11v11 at times a little bit boring meetings were long when I say long I'm talking if we lost the game we could go in and do the meeting after the game and stop literally everything and you could be in there for three four hours and it was like come on now let's be serious and I think that's one of the reasons why he doesn't last long at places because not just the players he tries to test mentally but the board as well and the owners and I think that people get annoyed with him and they're like, no, it's time for you to go.

16:41It doesn't sound like a good fit for Manchester United at the moment. I was thinking that as well. And you know where a lot of talk has been about Man United's running stats? If they're not going to run and Antonio Conte goes in there, it's going to be a disaster, I think. He is throwing his name in the hat, whether that is something that's going to happen or not. But I'm not sure whether the Man United players will be happy. I think you saw that when he went to Tottenham. And I spoke to a lot of Tottenham players. I spoke to the Chelsea players before I went to Inter Milan and was like, so what's he like?

17:18And they were like, you're going to run a lot. Oh, OK, brilliant. You'll be fitter than you've ever been. But do you know what? That was one of the things where I think that I was able to continue my career for so long because of the run. Although it was crazy. like summer running that we did. How much? And how does it compare? It doesn't compare. As somebody who doesn't run at all. It doesn't compare really because it's one of them where back in the day you used to like pre-season they used to mark out a running track and you used to do like a couple of 1500 metres, 800s in a day. It was nothing like that.

17:55This was like the length of the pitch and you'd like do say 100 yards and you had to do it 30 seconds on, 30 seconds off. Right. And you did that for seven minutes constantly. Right. Then he cut it down to 75 yards, and you do that 20 seconds on, 10 seconds off, you do that seven minutes, 50, 25, and so on. And that was just in the morning. Right. So then you'd come out in the afternoon and train, and when you're heavy-legged, it was a problem. But when you'd done that twice a week, and then you played in Europe, and then you played Sundays as well, you started to feel it. although you were fitter than opposition players because a lot in Italy was man-to-man.

18:37And they kind of stayed with you for up until 60 minutes. And literally, he used to say, watch 60 minutes. And they used to go down and we used to go up. And I think that's why it was successful. Well, I'm now coming round to the idea that maybe that would work for Manchester. Just because of the way that games have turned for Manchester United late on. and sort of maybe that might work for them. But even characterising, it's amazing how often clubs do that, that they have a manager who, and look, you might tell me Michael Carrick is very different from this, but he comes across in interviews and in those situations as very calm, very measured, very low-key.

19:15The total opposite to Antonio Conte. You're right, exactly. Yeah, yeah. But are they off the pitch? Are they different characters, do you think? Yeah, Michael Carrick is so laid back. He was the same way as a player, as you talk to him off the pitch, now as a manager. He is that way. He will always be that way. He will always have that same nature, that calming attitude. And I think that at times, Manchester United, especially in the last year, have needed to look over to the manager on the sideline. It's just calm, relaxed. That's the way he is. I think that people have said that he looks bad.

19:50But now they need somebody who's going to fire them up. Well, at times, he can do that. And he will. And Michael's one of them that when he speaks, people listen. And that's what he was like in the dressing room. He was quiet to a certain degree, but then when he spoke, it was like, let me listen to every single word that he says. He made football easy for players in front of him because he just literally simplified it to the point where he just used to say, as a winger, block left, block right. That's all I'm going to tell you. And when he said it, it was like, wow, this is so easy. It makes it so easy for yourself.

20:27And also, when people try and say that he's a bit dull and he's a bit far too laid back, oh, he definitely wasn't. He was life and soul. Was he? Oh, yeah, he was. Oh, come on. Oh, of course he was. This is the self-insight we need. Oh, yeah, he was, put it this way, when we used to have nights together, he was always there. That makes it sound romantic. Well, there was a few of us, I want to say. When Mike and I used to have date nights. It could be. I wouldn't go that far. But yeah, he was there. So people have got him, I don't know whether people have got him wrong. Until you meet Michael, you understand the character he is, you understand what he's like.

21:05Yeah, he was fun. A lot of fun as well. So I won't go too far in. Okay. But he was fun. This episode is sponsored by Huel. So Tim, I don't know about you at home, but as football fans, we've all got our things we can't do without. Well, in partnership with our sponsorship, Huel, we're bringing you one less thing where Tim and I discuss the one thing we'd like to see removed from football and we talk about this a lot don't we on the golf course first one up this week for me I'll come up with this one Tim post-match apologies on social media come on they've got to go haven't they do you know I think started it I might be wrong but it feels like Eddie Howe and Newcastle going over to the fans you know that everyone will go there and clap them right?

21:48Lovely. Brilliant. Because they were winning every game. But all of a sudden when you start getting chinned and you've got to go there and you're giving it some of that. Sorry, you know what I mean? Yeah. Sorry, it's on me. That's the worst. Even the manager, I remember seeing Hans Postacoglu and I felt sorry for him and he'd stand there clapping him and they're all cutting him off. Do you know why he did that? Why? He didn't want to go down the tunnel because he thought I'm going to front this out. I'm going to front it up. I remember Ole Gunnar Solskjaer was away at Vicarage Road. I remember it.

22:15Right over. That was his last game. Yeah. And he was over there like that apologising. They were getting some stick. And I remember Bruno behind him giving it, no, it's not him, it's all of us. It's all of us. Yeah, it's like charades, isn't it? Yeah, mate. No, blame me. Blame me. I can take it. I'm strong. I get the fans' point of view because away fans, I don't know what you were like. When Liverpool fans, they'd come in their droves and they'd pay big money. So you've got total respect for them. Of course you want to acknowledge them. And there's nothing worse when you've lost and you're sending them home feeling as bad as what they do.

22:46But that, as a manager, I think now, if you started again as a manager, or I did, I think you've just got to set a precedent where you just don't do it at all. Of course, you love them. They're your fans. That's not going to change. But what difference does it make you going over there and clapping them? Because when you lose, when you're going for a bad spell, it's awful. You have no future in it. Especially, I was consistent with that. I would always clap from where I was and just walk down the tunnel. Win or lose. So I know exactly what we're about. What about a little social media apology?

23:16I like them as well. You know, when they do that, well, I'm really sorry today, we was rubbish. You know what I mean? Well, I apologise for the performance. Performance, yeah. What, players or manager? Or both? Players like to do that one. Would you do that if you was a player now? I mean, Newcastle manager, the Isla did it the other night, didn't he? It's commentary. You know, come out and apologise to the fans. They almost expect it now, the fans. I mean, but the only way it carries any weight is if they perform better the next time they're out there. So, yeah, I'm not keen on it. I really am not.

23:47Right, Tim, so shall we lose that sort of post-match sorry that's always become inevitable in football now? Yeah, gone. Gone? Yeah, gone. Out. What, yellow card? Red. Red, Kev. One game ban. I like it. The verdict's in. The post-match apology is gone. But one thing I'm not apologising for is having one less thing to think about it when it comes to my nutrition. Huel is a complete meal in a bottle. High in protein, high in fiber, with all essential vitamins and minerals. Save£10 on your first order with the code OVERLAP at checkout. Just go to Huel.com slash Overlap daily.

24:24Therapy's biggest impact doesn't show up in some dramatic breakthrough. It shows up in the smallest moments. You bite your tongue instead of escalating. You put your phone down instead of firing off that text. You say what you actually mean instead of what would hurt someone else the most. Nobody applauds those moments, but they quietly change your life. That's what growing feels like, and that's exactly what Grow Therapy is here for. Grow is therapy that works, covered by insurance. Sessions average$21 with insurance, and some pay as little as$0, depending on their plan. There are no subscriptions, no long-term commitments.

25:00You just pay per session. Grow connects you with thousands of high-quality, licensed therapists across the U.S., offering both virtual and in-person sessions, nights and weekends. You can search by what matters, like insurance, specialty, identity, or availability. And you can book a therapy session in minutes and begin in as little as two days, not the national 48-day average. See if you could pay as little as$0 for therapy in seconds at growtherapy.com. slash start now. That's growtherapy.com slash start now. growtherapy.com slash start now. Availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan.

25:42This is Hannah Berner from Giggly Squad. O-Pill is the first over-the-counter daily birth control pill available in the U.S. Let's be real, getting a birth control prescription is not always easy and it's so much admin. In fact, about a third of women face barriers to access prescription birth control between scheduling appointments missing work class or just trying to exist it's a lot but now opil is putting birth control in our control opil is a daily birth control that's fda approved full prescription strength and estrogen free and 98 effective when used as directed grab it online or at most major retailers no prescription or doctor's appointment needed so if you're thinking about birth control check out opil to see if it's right for you Use code Giggly for 25 % off your first month of OPILL at O-P-I-L-L dot com.

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27:16I don't know if you've seen much of the Ten Hag interview in The Athletic. They've gone over to meet him over the course of a couple of days. and there's a big two-part interview, the first part of which is out now. And he talks about Manchester United and his experience and says, you know, they promised me loyalty, they promised me backing, they promised communication. But this was after the FA Cup final, when there was a lot of talk that he was going to lose his job. And then he went over and had these kind of clear-the-air chat and he was given the job again. And it does sound as though there was an inconsistency in the messaging to him in terms of he wanted to keep Scott McTominay and then he was sold in terms of players that he wanted to bring in that weren't brought into the club.

28:00But once you've had that conversation, once the managers had that first conversation with the owners, is there any way back? No, there's not. I think that conversation that you have with the owners is literally like you're out the door. That's what's going to happen. If they're turning around and saying, or you're saying to them, well, I want this player and I want to keep this player and they're like, he's being sold. You know the relationship is done. And I don't think that... Did Ten Hag do enough, really? No, I don't think so. I think he come with this big persona that he was going to change the club around and there was going to be success and he was going to get players in.

28:39And it just wasn't that way at all. He signed good players for the club, but I just think the football that he was playing just wasn't good enough. But like you say, when you have those conversations, and I think the conversation in Ibiza, nice place. Yes. Really nice. Yeah. I'm going to insist on having every meeting that I have now. They took him there out to Ibiza and was like, well, this is nice. So there you go. But it was, it's, yeah, I think once you're, you basically your head's on the chopping board, once you've had that conversation. And I'm not a manager. I don't know what conversations they're having.

29:22Whether you want players to come in, whether you're asked for players to come in, whether you say you don't want players to leave. But when they do, and if it is that they've got balanced books and whatnot, then it's going to be tough for you. So I think that conversation that Ternag was having was, see, there's the door, out you go. And once they've started looking for reasons to get rid of you, really, any little blip that you have after that, they're like, they cut their losses and you're on the way. There's no room for you after that. No, no, of course. And you're the manager of Manchester United.

29:53You know any little error you make over a sustained period of time, you're going to be out of the door. Because managers now, they don't get the time anymore. It's just the way it is. We're seeing it with Michael Carrick. To the end of the time he took over to the end of last season, had the best record of anybody else in the Premier League. It's been a poor start to the season for Manchester United. even steadied maybe a little bit with the point at Ellen Road. And already it's conversation. Antonio Conte feels confident enough to start linking himself with a job that isn't technically available just yet.

30:32I think Michael Carrick is always going to know as soon as he took over the job, there was going to be scrutiny from day one. It was always going to happen. Of course, he'd done a fantastic job last season. Things haven't started that well. It's the way that things go. It's probably why I wouldn't be a coach or a manager because the heat and, you know, I've just got myself some pairs. I don't want to lose that either or go grey. So it's a tough job to take. But like I said, Michael Carrick would have known what was coming if things didn't start well. He knows that everybody, basically because you're manager of one of the biggest clubs in the world, there's going to be people saying things week in, week out, every day.

31:17there's going to be something about Manchester United. Since the years of Manchester United not winning, there's been scrutiny on that club every single day. And it's just the way it is. It's going to happen. It's now for Michael to be able to turn that round and show people what he's about, to show the players, listen, this is the way I want you to play. I don't want you to come away from this blueprint. This is the way we're going to turn it around. And if we can, then things are going to get better. There's no better place to play, for me, when you're winning is Manchester United. Like I say, the size of the club is incredible.

31:50It's huge. And like I say, the fan base there is... They're terrific when... Even when you're not winning, they're not that bad. They're still with you. They're still shouting for you. They're still behind you. But there's going to get a point where... They did get booed off at half-time and full-time last... I've been there. Yeah, but it's... But it's notable when that happens. Of course. It's not like, they're getting booed off again. It's unusual when that happens. Yeah, but I think then if you look at before Michael Carrick's time, you go to Ruben Amrim, how many times were they booed off?

32:25How many times was their boos in the first 15, 20 minutes? It happens. It's not as bad because of, like I say, the job Michael did last season. It was so different from Amrim to Michael Carrick. The way that the team were, the way the team was set up, the way the team played. it was what Manchester United fans wanted to see they wanted to see goals they wanted to see players running forward it's just now that things haven't started so well but that can change that and if Michael Carrick has got the players and they've got the the way of the belief to let that happen then things can change but it's just hopefully soon Ten Hagin in his interview talked about a toxic culture, that they're sort of continuing to fuel this toxic culture.

33:17He talks about individual players, like player discipline, things with Jadon Sancho, with Marcus Rashford, with other people. But that idea about the culture of the club, and you were there, as you said, at the end of Sir Alex's reign and then through the changes. Was there a change in how it felt at Manchester? And I know everybody can see what happened on the pitch. Everybody can see the way that different managers worked. But when you talk about going in and there's an argument that you couldn't have a manager like that now, like Sir Alex Ferguson. He said that himself. Yeah, but I think that's fair.

34:02It's not what players are used to now. And that's not to say he couldn't adapt, by the way. Yeah, yeah. But from the way that he managed and the way that he ran the club, really, to when he wasn't there, and not necessarily about individual managers, but did it feel different at Manchester United? Do you know, I've always said about Sir Alex, his man management skills were the best I've ever come across. And that wasn't just the players that were starting. That was players that weren't in the squad, that were on the bench. like he was able to know his teams I'm talking Kelly maybe two three months in advance and like it's not possible I don't even know how you're able to pick your team from one week to another let alone two three months and he just knew how to make sure everyone was happy in the way that right listen you're not playing this weekend but I need you for this game this game this game so make sure you're ready and it just kept the fire there for for everybody when people say the culture changed now i was at the end of like say sir alex's era i moved on to david moise i had lou van gael i had jose marino ollie gonna come in and i wouldn't say the culture changed i'd say just times just started changing and players were different social media come in and like i say there was towards the end there was me, Wayne Rooney, Michael Carrick, the three of us and I remember sitting there we sat there a few times and we just looked around the dressing room going what's happened?

35:44Like it's literally like us old generation against this new generation where there's dancing around the dressing room and you know we've just lost the game and you know we could come in after a game and we could have lost and straight away people are there on their phones because they want to see what's being said about me. And, you know, I think for, like I say, the older generation, because we were before social media, obviously we've evolved and gone into the social media years now, it wasn't that way. You used to, you know, under Sir Alex, like your phone used to be put underneath a TV screen.

36:19As soon as you walked in, I think that was probably because the teams kept on getting lit. So it was whatever you just used to put your phone under. And you didn't have it until half an hour after the game. But it was different times. I think the culture had changed. Like I said, I think that social media and different managers weren't able to deal with players at times there. Player power kind of took over. I think that things might have changed too quickly, too soon. And then, like I say, certain things were changing. Does that mean that standards were slipping? do you think? Because it's quite hard when you're used to a certain way of working you know you can perceive any sort of change as change is not good because we were successful this way therefore we have to continue in this way to keep the success but things evolve so does it necessarily because then followed the times without winning the league from Manchester United so the natural assumption to make is because of that change that's why Manchester United didn't win the league.

37:32Yeah, no, I wouldn't have said it was that that was why Manchester United didn't win the league. I just... And I don't think it's the standards that were slipping because standards are always high there at Manchester United. The standards have always been there for you to follow, for you to, you know, be a guideline. And I knew as soon as walking into that building at Carrington, you know, Sir Alex said to me, you'll either sink or swim. That's how it is here. You either do well and you'll fly or you won't last too long here. But he set a standard. And I don't even think that Soarek's had to set the standard.

38:10It was the players. Because there were so many leaders in that dressing room, every player took ownership of themselves that, you know what, I need to go out there and train and make sure I'm 100%. I think things have changed in the last few years where players aren't thinking in that way. Players don't... Certain players will be, I don't need to train as hard this week and I can turn up on a Saturday. There must have been players like that, though, when you played. It's not that long ago that you played. No, it is longer. It feels like it. It feels ages ago. No, but like I say, there was players that wanted to...

38:50How I see it is, especially in the last... I don't know, we're going back, what, five, ten years now. is it players are really now thinking I want to look back on my career and say I've won this trophy and I've won that trophy or is it players are now like well how many followers have I got what car do I drive what house have I got I could be wrong I know how I was it's probably a mix isn't it and I think that's what it is it's the mixture of a bit of that and okay well I'm not going to win that so I need to maximise my own I see it from both points of view and different points. But like I said, at the time of where being the end of Sir Alex's era, I knew day in, day out, you had to be at 100%.

39:37Because even if he wasn't outside training, you'd see him up in the window and you knew, if I mess up out here, he's going to see it, he's going to say something. And there was times where he was able to do that. And he used to say to people in training, well, he didn't train like that. and he was like, he won't even out there. How did you say that? But it is that way that he just always knew he had eyes around and like little standards. And in the nightclubs. Oh, he knew that as well. There were spotters in there. Yeah, he had spotters everywhere. He spotted me as well. How was the Wednesday night?

40:07He was there, wasn't he? Yeah, he had spotters everywhere. Even little things like, I remember flying back from, we was in Europe and Phil Jones, and literally Phil Jones' time was like, we just won the game, everyone was happy. and he literally, like we were sat there, went into the board and just heard, Phil, what's happened? You're tired. He was miles away. Yeah. That's what I mean. It was them kind of the standards and I don't think, and I think that did change. When new managers come in, them changes changed things but I wouldn't say standards were not as high. Not when, by the time I left, I don't think standards had slipped.

40:47At the times I knew in training that things weren't going right and players wouldn't train well and I'd say something. Yeah, what did you say? I'd be polite and be like, can you train better, please? You'd be really helpful for the rest of the team. Yes, could you just train a little bit better? Would you mind? Yeah, if you'd be so kind, thank you very much. It's perfectly polite. Exactly.

41:16Welcome back to Primetime Play brought to you by SkyVegas. Now, here at The Overlap, the drama never stops and it's no different on reality TV. So with that in mind, this week we're going to be putting ourselves into the shoes of a Big Brother housemate. Big Brother, probably the OG of, like, reality TV. Because it's 25 years. That blows my mind. Which is ridiculous. And I remember it starting. and just thinking this whole concept was really strange and they'd be really aware of the cameras. And then it just took off. I can't believe how huge it became. I was in school when it started. I remember everyone in school.

41:57It'd be 9pm, Davina, and everyone would go home. Do not swear. That would be exactly that. Do you think you'd be a good housemate, though? I'd be horrendous. Why? I can't be confined to one place. I cannot be contained that's why the overlap suits me I can't do it I'd go mad because of the people Lockdown was bad enough Lockdown was like a mini big brother in everyone's house exactly thank God I think less the house because I'm quite happy in my own company and I'm quite happy just in one place and I'd be fine with that what I couldn't do is other people That's it. And then once one person... Annoyed you.

42:43They're done, aren't they? Yeah. It'll just keep irritating you and building up. I hate it. Somebody would just have to have, like, a habit or something that you hated. Oh, I hate it here when people leave the milk open. Yeah. Who does that? Who puts it back? If someone's doing that in the house or something, I'd go mad. Yeah. Put the lid back on. Yeah, yeah. Honestly, that's them out there. Which of the stick-to-football lot? or which of the whole overlap team would you most like? I mean, I'd get a lot of peace of quiet if Gary was in there. I would pay money to see Gary in there. You know when you were saying about people leaving the milk top off, everything, everything would annoy him, wouldn't it?

43:22He'd try and run the house. Yeah. Imagine him not being on his phone. I don't know. I don't know how he'd cope. I mean, we'd have a lot of peace and quiet outside if he was in. I'm trying to think who'd be good, like which footballers would be good in it as well. Remember when Mario Balotelli left a firework in his house? Imagine if he just smuggled in a firework into the Big Brother house. The cinema would let that work, wouldn't it? That would be good. I'd love a bit of that. There'd be a few of them who'd be... You almost don't want the really angry ones. I think Wayne would be amazing. I think Wayne would be very entertaining if he went in.

43:57Do you? I mean, yeah. He would. And he does tell good stories. Exactly. But I think he might just go quite relaxed. Do you? Do you know what I mean? I think he might just be able to go... He might be able to cope with it too well. Yeah, and just not kind of adapt to it. But I'm trying to think of current players who'd be good in the Big Brother house. If there's anybody who you feel like... How do you think of big personalities? There aren't that many huge personalities around that you think... Do you know who I think would be quite good? John McGinn, I think, would be good. I'd be super-hub. I think he'd be like a really helpful housemate.

44:32Yeah, yeah. There's the Scots, isn't there? Andy Robertson would be good as well. Oh, yeah, but they would be like grown-ups in the room. I think they'd just be quite good at getting everything. And if there were, like, little tasks they had to do, they'd get everybody involved. And I think they'd be good mixes. When they do the little secret things where Big Brother likes to help them. Like the wind-ups. Oh, my God. John McGinn would be amazing. Yeah, they would both be really good at that. So basically we want Scottish. Yeah. And we want, like, sort of, not old, but at the kind of experience end of the thing.

45:04Yeah. We don't want the young ones in. No, I think it'd either be too good at it or not entertaining at all. Yeah. Because, I mean, you want a bigger personality. Yeah. I feel like the young ones are a bit shy sometimes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we need somebody who's funny. Yeah. Yeah. That's a must. Well, ITV, you've got your celeb Big Brother housemate suggestions from us, thanks to Sky Vegas.

45:33on managers Unai Emery 100 Premier League wins which he had the most low-key response to did I? did I? that's about right I mean look it's a kind in some ways it's a sort of meaningless stat because it's how long did it take him to do it and he's had several spells he's been at different clubs it's a bit meaningless but it is a marker and it kind of indicates it's a massive marker yeah Like 100 games? Yeah. That is like big, that. Yeah, but if you win 100 games and you've managed 1 ,000, or if you win 100 games and you've managed 150, they're different kind of... On its own. But you can make an argument that he is the Premier League's standout manager over that time, even if you take into account what happened at Arsenal in really difficult circumstances after Arsene Ben-Grid left.

46:26We talk about big managers leaving clubs and things changing. With what he's done at Villa and with his success in Europe elsewhere as well, you sort of look at him and think he's gone in really severe financial restrictions, turned Aston Villa into a club that are regularly challenging for Champions League places. That's an incredible job. Is that why you were Aston Villa Colours today? Just to talk about Uno. I thought so. It's nice of that. Do you know what? He has done an amazing job. Like I say, when he came in, I think we were 16th maybe in the league. And if anybody had said from that day when he came in to now, there would have been Champions League football at the club.

47:19There would have been top of the league at times, finishing in Champions League spots. I think maybe seventh, fourth, twice. I don't think anybody would have really understood the job that he's done to go there and turn that club into a team that is fighting on all fronts for a thing that would have gone on to win the Europa League. Would I say a standout? Well, if you're going off stats and you're saying that he's had 1 ,000 games and 100 wins, then probably not. No, he's not managed to stand out. That's not the stat. But for what he's done at that club, you know, in a way that, working underneath him, I know how meticulous he is.

48:04I know he's got a certain style of football that he's going to play that he will never come away from. I even think fans, when he first came in there, were actually, I think we got booed at times. But he's got a way of playing football. and it is literally build up with a goalkeeper centre-halves centre-fielders connect with the 10s to the striker I've just given away their game plan so everyone's going to hear that I'm fairly sure analysts at other clubs have spotted that I think so just got to break it down not make it work but that's just the way he is and the fans were I'm sure if we go back there were fans that were questioning what he was like Villa Park Villa Park is a great place to watch football and it can be incredible but it can also go the other way and all that energy can be harnessed in a negative outpouring of emotion as well.

48:54I had it even this season where fans are asking me are we going to be okay? And I was like, look at last season didn't win for the first few games and then look what happened. And that was the thing that Unai is a great manager he's done fantastic things for that club. Like you say, he's a serial winner in the Europa League. Do I think that he could go on to elsewhere, another bigger club, if he's given the time? Like you say, he went into Arsenal and he was there for 18 months. If you've got to fill the shoes of Arsenal playing that, it's going to be tough. David Moyes was the same when he came into Manchester United under Sir Alex.

49:40It was tough. We literally just won the league. it's hard to do. And Arsenal weren't there. No, they weren't. He wasn't taking on an Arsenal team. And I don't know whether he was given enough time. Like, 18 months as a manager, you're hoping you've got long enough to turn the fortunes around, but I don't think he did. And I think that all the players at Aston Villa are delighted with the work that he's done. At times, he's another one that likes a long meeting. Players will fall asleep in the meetings. Douglas Luiz, I won't name you. But it's one of the things that, He's so meticulous in his ways of training.

50:17And at times, players, ex-players that have played under him will say, it's a little bit boring because we're doing the same thing day in, day out. But when you get results in the way that he has, who can argue with him? He's got the club, the owners. There's such a relationship that he's got with the owners that they trust everything that he wants to do. He's brought in all his own people. he's even brought one in and got rid of them as well he makes big decisions but he wants everything to be what he says and because of the success that he's brought to that club the owners are going to back him 100 % John McGinn was on Stick to Football in August and this is what he said about Unai Emery Every year he's losing players, he's just produced again what is the ingredient that he's got?

51:05He's just got a burning enthusiasm and desire to be the best I think other managers drive him on he might never come out and fully say it but I think deep down in his head I think he thinks he'll never say it but I think he thinks he's elite and he is and he if we lose him it's a different story I'm still positive about the season but we need to make sure we keep holding the manager he just constantly improves players if they want to be improved we've had players that he's given chance after chance today that don't want to improve. But every single day, eight o 'clock to eight at night, just watching game after game or player after player, just an obsession to win.

51:51And that's what you're talking about in those long meetings. When he said from eight till eight, I was like, is it we're in a meeting? That's the long one, yeah, that's the long one then. But it is that obsession, that attention to detail. So many managers now, so many head coaches now, they are football geeks. that is, you know, it's not... His attention to detail, literally, when he first come to Aston Villa, he lived at the training ground. It's like he didn't leave. And that was, like Guinea would say, he was watching game after game after game. He was watching players to find out what the players were, who he had, what he needed to buy, what he needed to get in.

52:28And like John will say there, he improves and has improved so many players. Guinea's a prime example. he's been fantastic for Villa but his game's literally gone to another level and I think he loves working under Unai Emery Unai Emery trusts him the most in the squad he's got that belief in himself to go out and not necessarily playing in the position that I think he wants to play in because I think he wants to play in the centre midfield there's times where you see him on the right you see him on the left but he's just a team player he just wants to go out and do the best for that club. He is, for me, Mr Aston Villa.

53:09And I think that when we talk about standards, he drives the standards that Unai will set that then John McGuin goes into the dressing room and he gives them standards to every single player. And I know you're not concerned about Villa this season in terms of pushing for those Champions League places. But then you look at the table and you look at some of the performances of Brighton, for example, this season. And suddenly there's a new kid on the block. And I know Brighton have had good spells. Under Herzl, they've been a little bit streaky. And they've had these good spells. So I'm slightly wary of jumping on the Brighton bandwagon.

53:46That's like everyone is, aren't they? That 5-0 victory against Palace. And look, Palace with their problems as well. You have to put it into context. Even just the confidence to that Diego Gomez goal from 51 metres out. All those things, it just feels such a positive place to be playing football. The win against Arsenal, the turnaround in the League Cup against Manchester United. There's big statement wins in that. Football for me is confidence. And if you've got confidence and you're winning games like Brighton are, that's what then spurns you on every single game. And it's like if things are not going well, you're still able to win games.

54:29They've built a squad there that is young, that is hungry, and they always do it. And they're getting players in that people wouldn't even have heard of, but yet they're able to produce. And the manager there, for me, is doing a fantastic job. But I don't think we're going to get too carried away, like you say, because of, we've seen this before, will they have a dip in form? Will they be able to get out of it? Everyone says when you get round to February, March time, And that's when you start seeing the real, that's when a league starts coming alive. So for now, of course, they're doing fantastically well.

55:07I love to watch Brighton. They are a team that literally are on the front foot. They go and get the ball back. They want to play and they score goals. And it's not just, oh, we'll win by one or two. They're like, no, we're going to go get three, four, five. And like you say, Diego Gomez is goal the other day. I was looking at it thinking, could I hit the ball that far? Probably not. but I'd love to be able to but you can just see the team spirit they've got there everyone is just so together and I think seeing that when Lewis Dunk scored his goal at Coventry which was goal of the month unbelievable goal the bench behind the bench all the staff were just so happy were so pleased and I think that's what the manager has got there the mix between the players and the staff everyone is so together it's just weather they can continue doing this.

55:58Now, obviously, they've got tougher fixtures that they've got coming up. I think Liverpool this weekend. So we're going to see whether this has just been a good start. They have, yeah. They did and done really well. It's just to see, can they maintain it? Will they still continue doing this for the rest of the season? There's going to be more injuries. There's going to be suspensions, which obviously every team has. have they got the squad depth big enough to to continue what what they've they've started with but right now like say that for me one of the best teams in the league 75 of women who seek menopause care don't receive it the lying awake at 3 a.m wondering what's happening to your body ends now midi is virtual care built for women in perimenopause and menopause with clinicians who specialize in women's health plus it's covered by most major insurances Getting started is easy.

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59:29Big night of Champions League football as well. Liverpool home to Villarreal. Manchester City take on AK Athens and then PSG taking on Barcelona. Look, we can't talk about City every week until... I feel like we're going to, though, aren't we? Well, until it's decided and then we'll talk about that. You can't really draw a line underneath it until a line has been drawn. I think that's the thing. And you were there when... Well, you were at Manchester United, rather, when Manchester City sort of started to knock United off their perch. and you were playing against Sunderland when the Aguero goal happened.

1:00:08You were at the Man Utd game against Sunderland. Don't talk about that goal. But do you reflect on it differently? Now? Yeah. I mean, look, the emotions are the emotions and that's what City fans say as well. You can't take those great moments away from us and you don't feel differently. You're taking the moments away from someone else. So does the context feel different now? Do you feel like you've had something taken away? For me, I've been obviously seeing it and hearing it. And like you say, until the line is drawn underneath it, everyone's going to have an opinion. Everyone's going to say, and there's going to be people that played in the teams that they beat in cup competitions, the teams that they beat the league to.

1:00:51For me, I see it as once the verdict properly comes out, then that's when you can talk. Right now, I'm in a way of strip the titles. Would you do that? Yeah, I would. And then would you award them to the second-place team, which in 2017-18 was Manchester United, who finished 19 points behind? No. You don't want it? No. You can't celebrate it. We'd have a good go at celebrating it, trust me. But that moment's gone. Yeah. It's not there anymore. So it's tough to be able to get that back. So you just wouldn't have a league winner that season? No, I think you just wipe it. The only thing you do, if you do want to give it to the team that was then won the league, what I'm going to do is look on Wikipedia or Google and say, OK, yeah, there's another title there.

1:01:42Yeah. But it's not happening. It's one of the things that you want to change. You want things to change. Yeah. But it's not. Yeah. History's been done. Whatever's happened has happened. And disappointingly, yes, I was in the teams that were against them, that lost. I can't even listen to that Aguero goal. I'm not surprised. It's horrible to hear. But we can't go back and say, right, yeah, OK, we're going to celebrate it. I'm different. There's a lot of players that will say that they wanted to, they want the trophies and, you know, they want that moment back. We won the league and I remember that.

1:02:36The day we won the league, the celebrations we had, we probably celebrated for the week. Seriously, we didn't even train. Why not? Straight to the pub and went out. But seeing them fans, and just a picture in my head stands out, is the fans on the scaffolding when we come past in a bus. And I mean, I don't know how this thing didn't fall down. There were so many fans on the scaffold. It was incredible. That moment there will always stay with me. For people to turn around now and say, OK, well, you've been given another title. If that happens, you can't have that moment. It's just gone. Yeah. The potential for this season, for Manchester City, for this not to be sorted by the end of the season, Manchester City win it on the current players' performances.

1:03:27Yeah. And then are either retrospectively deducted points. Ollie Holt in the Mail, the chief sports writer for the Mail, said, look, we don't know, but he said, insiders suggest the most likely punishment is a massive points deduction, which ensures City's relegation to the championship, plus a huge fine, which I don't know what huge would mean in the context of the money available. Also possible that the punishment would include a further points deduction that would effectively confine City to the championship for at least one more season. I'm not quite sure how that would work because they haven't really broken any EFL rules.

1:04:02So I don't know how that would work or if they would come up and then have a... I mean, I don't know where you'd start. I don't know where you would start. But City could end up, without a points deduction, winning the league, putting in... I mean, they've had a perfect start to the season on the pitch. And yet it could all mean nothing at the end of it. It's not the players' fault, right? The players have got a job to go out and do. The players over the last few years, what they got in, questionable. You know, we'd sit there and we'd be like, really? How is this possible? But, like, say it happened, they got found guilty, there's now an appeal, OK, so then we've got to go through that process.

1:04:48This season, I think a lot of people in the football world are sat there going, something just doesn't feel right. It's just not right. You'd rather this been sorted out for so long. Why has it carried on for so long? Because they say they're not guilty. That's why. They want to fight the... Yeah, they want to fight the virtue. It's too long for... City's a club and the players and everyone else. So it should have just been done. Like now we've got to wait. And like you say, City players will be there. And of course they're going to be united. They're going to stay together. Of course, they have to.

1:05:28Rightly so. But then they could be fighting for this and then get to the end of the season. Points deduction. Now they've not won. Yeah. So then what happens is we've got a case of years ago where they've won it. Oh, they've been points deducted. So are the second team going to win now? I don't know where you go with it What if the points deduction Is applied Retrospectively, City are then Relegated at the end of this season But win the Champions League So now they boo the Premier League anthem They boo the Champions League anthem And because UEFA were trying to Invest, I mean this all started with an investigation For UEFA, this is the Information that they found that sort of run out of time So there's a But they could, potentially win the Champions League and get relegated in the same season.

1:06:18Imagine that. I mean, how big then does the Champions League become in Manchester City's season? If you're going out there, I know the players are really, and the fans are really defiant this season, and there's a real togetherness in the league, but the Champions League, nothing's getting taken away there, so they can just go for that. Just focus on that. Well, no, not just focus on it. I just think it's just, there's cans of worms open everywhere. And this is the problem you've got, because it's gone on for so long. You're not now, well, is it Premier League? Is it Champions League? You're going to win UEFA.

1:06:56You've got so much that needs to be talked about that let's just get it done. Let's just see the outcome of the appeal. So then you can just go, right, now that is done with. Of course, it's still going to be a sour taste. But you then say, right, this is what is going on and this is where the land lies. And everyone just gets on with it. And then we can talk about the football, which is what we started off doing there. Exactly, that's what I think. End up getting distracted down the line. Too right. But, yeah, it's so complicated and it's open. That's the thing, it's so complicated. And it's open.

1:07:32This debate is just going to go on and on and on and on until this is done. When you were saying earlier, it feels like a long time since you've played. You did play until you were 40. Yeah, it's a long time. That is a long time. Yeah, it is. To play. And you talk about maybe earlier on a little bit about the training regime under Conte. It's tough as it was. Maybe at times as boring as it was. It maybe gave you a little bit. It did, definitely did. A little bit longer. Jordan Henderson is 36. Still a young pup, isn't he? He's still a baby. 36. But it feels like... I was so old. But you don't, I don't think you felt like, you definitely don't look it, but I don't think you were perceived as being a sort of elder statesman in the way that Jordan Henderson at 36 is in that kind of...

1:08:24If you had been in dressing rooms, you'd understand. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, there he is again. No, but what I mean is that he, and he's been sort of saying he wants to play for England. Yeah. He thinks that people are maybe underestimating his ability to contribute to the team because he's seen as a sort of cheerleader, as somebody who's been brought in, particularly at Chelsea, where they were this team of young players and they need an experienced head to come in. And Jordan Henderson's been brought in for that. And almost kind of seen as that in the England camp as well. He's just this cheerleader, almost.

1:09:00Do you know what? But I understand what he means about being a cheerleader. I actually was saying to myself at Ipswich, I was like the cheerleader, basically, when I got brought in. But it's not that. That's because you went in with your pom-poms. Yeah, I was going to say, I had really good pom-poms, by the way. They were amazing. But for me, John Hedges, when I played with him at England, I mean, his voice, his character, it was like a shouting match, because I'd talk non-stop, he'd talk non-stop. For me, I got asked a question before the World Cup about John Henson going. You want seniors and you want leaders like that at a World Cup when it's going to be such a long time.

1:09:42And of course, I don't know Thomas Tuchel, how the staff and the players were integrating with each other. But you want leaders off the pitch to be able to make sure everyone stays together, everyone's standards are high. there's going to be times where people are missing family and whatnot and them days are the ones where you need the characters. Jordan Henderson is that. For me, he had to go to the World Cup. Whether he was going to play or not, different story. But he would have always wanted to be there. But that's what he's saying. But that's his complaint, is I'm not just there to kind of No, of course not.

1:10:18G everybody up and be. Obviously, that's part of what he brings in and probably was part of what he brought from even in his late 20s, probably onwards, he probably had that in his locker. It's that he feels that because of that almost, yeah, almost because of that, he's not seen as playing as well as he feels he is at the moment. Do you know what? And we've spoken about it. I think that the move to Saudi has kind of... Felt like a semi-retirement office. Yeah, because he was at his pinnacle there, he was in the prime and he went. And the timing of when he went to then come back for the length of it, I think that's why...

1:11:07Via Ajax, where he... Yeah, I know, that's the thing. He'd come back and went Ajax and then Brentford after that. It's one of them things where I think a lot of people were like, oh, look, he's gone, that's it. And just try to forget about him. oh now he's come back well he's older now and that's how it's been but Jordan Henderson won't be thinking that there's no way because I know him he would have and getting the move to Chelsea wouldn't have been thinking in his head right I'm going to Chelsea there's a young squad I need to be the father figure I need to look after these young players no no no he would have been I'm going to play on that team I'm going to show people what I'm about they can talk about me they can say this about me and say that I'm an elder statesman and I can't do this anymore he will be like I'll take that that's the fuel that he needs that's the type of person that he is the fuel of someone saying you're this and you can't do this and you can't do that that's him and he'll be like right I'm going to run with that and I think you see if you look at the Chelsea team the way they started the league impressive things start to go a little bit the wrong way and then you put him into the team and you see Chelsea have started to get up and climb the table again.

1:12:28There's a reason why and I'm not just saying it's just him but when you've got somebody like that in the team not just in the squad that is a leader and you'll hear when they're on TV you hear him like you hear that voice. At times I used to tell him hand the fuck out please like you're too much but it's just the way he is he's just the winner And I think that's why you see what he's done in his career is that, and still now, 36 years old, he's still got so much to give. And he still wants to give and show people, yeah, you got it wrong. But I don't think he'll come out too much and say it, but he'll just show it on the pitch.

1:13:05Thank you, Ashley. That was fun. Did you enjoy it? Oh, I enjoyed that. Yeah, I did. It is. You've got stuff off. I feel like there's been a little bit of therapy this one. Yeah, do you know what? It was really therapeutic. You've been building up to this, haven't you? It was nice. I have been building up to it from our tea chat. Yeah, exactly. Well, the tea chat just fired you up. Yeah, it did. It got me going. You know, Tetley's lovely. Yeah.

1:13:34This has been a Global and the Overlap production.

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