Ten Hag's Future & Anfield's Atmosphere Myth! | Fan Debate Hot Takes

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0:43And after losing over 30 pounds, I can say you're not just another GLP-1 source. You're a life source. Thanks, Tara. I'm Myra Ameth, founder of Mochi Health. To find your Mochi moment, visit joinmochi.com. Tara is a Mochi member compensated for her story. I've got two but they contradict each other Eric Tenag will be here next season and another one Ru Van Nistel will be manager by January do you think that Erling Haaland is the best striker that the Premier League has ever had because I don't think he's anywhere near it you know 7 to 10 years I think there's a great chance that happens you think you'll like it in League 1 first one is officiating is the worst it's ever been in the Premier League I honestly believe and we were watching beginning of the summer, we weren't thinking, I can't wait to get back to a new season and see some players sit off and kick the ball away.

1:35PSO, I believe, is being used just to pump prices upon tickets. It's always got to be Man United, hasn't it? Relax. You're the biggest fan of the one. You're the biggest fan of the one. You're the biggest fan of the one. It's not that hot, really. Well, give us the other one.

1:52Welcome to the new episode of The Fan Debate, brought to you by Skybet. And this week, we've got some of the fans in here from up and down the country, and they're going to give us their hot take. So, Boobie, I'm going to start with you. Come on, what's your hot take? I think Man United are going to come bottom half of the table. Obviously, they came eighth last season, which was a massive... Can I fight your own? You know, you won the FA Cup. It was like Wigan Athletic for you. It was a big day out for Man United fans. And I just think you're going backwards. Spent a lot of money, don't get me wrong, but that doesn't guarantee you success.

2:20You look at some of the quality that you see from Bright and I think Moreska's come in. You see more identity are in a slot at Liverpool, more identity in the last six months than Ten Hag in three years. I think there's so much quality in the Premier League. Aston Villa, Brentford, Newcastle, Spurs. They're all going to finish above Man United. Yeah, but they're better than you. And Thomas Frank's a better manager than Ten Hag. I think there's a good chance you come bottom half of the table. You lost your head last week. You've lost your head again. I mean, because I was told your hot take was is Erlen Haaland the deadliest striker in the Premier League.

2:50I do think that, yeah, of course, yeah. Oh, it's obvious. Head's gone, James. So what's your hot take? Got ten goals in five games. So what is your take? Man United are going to come bottom half It's always got to be Man United Relax You're the biggest club in the world Biggest club in the world Who? Man United Okay does anyone in here Anyone else Beside Boovey Believe Manchester United Will finish in the bottom half Me and Scalzi Put our hands on Alright Boovey Go with your real one Because you're getting wound up by Adam I'm trying to wind anyone up Is Erling Haaland The deadliest striker In the Premier League Scorsi I'll go to you You've played with some Great strikers at Manchester United Ever In the Premier League Erm He's looking that way I think we'll still need to Have him for another Three or four or five years But Yeah We were just saying When he goes through You never actually think He's going to miss Yeah And there's not many Faults I played with some Unbelievable He was something like Andy Cole, Dwight York.

3:56Rui Rannisleroy, I probably thought, was the most ruthless finisher and best finisher I ever played with. But it's just having that confidence with somebody like that when you think he's going through. There's some forwards that go through. I've changed you, I'm not sure. Haaland. He needs that cup final because I think football fans love, obviously, memories and the big moments and you think about drug. But Thierry Henry went so long, he never scored a cup final goal. Not to wind you up. Sorry. But it's just true. It's hard to score goals. Only Aguero scored only one in a cup final as well, in a league cup final against Arsenal.

4:27So it's hard to score. So we can't do it in big games? What's that? Can't do it in big games. Well, we did it against Arsenal. That was obviously the biggest game for Arsenal in many years. It was. Where are you from, by the way? Huh? Where are you from? I'm from Bristol. I'm from Bristol. But City fan all my life. City fan. Not every football fan. Movie, was that goal important for him? Even though he's broke so many records, Harlan, there is still that little question of, semi-final of the Champions League Champions League final into Milan midweek I've always felt when he comes up against the real sort of elite the absolute best so that maybe the defenders come out on top and it's easier for a defender than an attacker I get that so was it important for him at the weekend to get that goal it was a great goal and he looked really up for it almost like he had a point to prove because of who he was coming up against Yeah it was massive obviously it is a title deciding kind of goal to put us one that up against Arsenal so they did well and it was a draw in the end it wasn't a winning goal.

5:23He's still so young that I still think it's a bit unfair to criticise him for the goals in finals. He's only been in a couple of FA Cup finals, one Champions League final. If Rudiger locks you up, if Saliba locks you up, Van Dijk's done a great job against Haaland at Anfield. It's still so early in his time at City. I think there's a good chance he stays at City for seven to ten years. I think there's a great chance that happens. You think you'll like it in League One? I think he loves being nice from the team. The team is beautiful wherever we are. He'll be alright in the big games there, won't he?

5:52It's hard to explain how good he is. He is the most lethal finisher in the Premier League. And the kind of talks of if Harry Keane had joined City, he'd be doing the same numbers. It's just not true. And we wouldn't know anyway. Yeah, that's a fair point. I'm talking about now. The most lethal finisher in the Premier League now? Or of all time? No, of all time. No, he's not that. No, he might be the most lethal. You've always had to be in your bonnet of all time. I've got no personal issue with him. But he's most certainly not that. Yeah, he's very fortunate that he's playing at a time when he's playing for the best team, far and away the best team, with the best supporting cast around him.

6:25He's also playing at a time when standout centre-halves are just not around. Every time he does come up against a standout centre-half, for example, Nacho, for example, Rudiger, for example, Van Dijk, he does get sewn up. At the moment, we don't have those iconic centre-halves. If you go back a decade or so, obviously... What about the Arsenal centre-halves? did really well the Arsenal centre halves he scored right through the middle of him Rory he did once he did once he's played him an awful lot of times hasn't he got 100 goals in 103 games yeah there's no doubt that he's the best striker around at the moment there's no doubt that he will go down as one of the best but there's no way that he's the most ruthless finisher the Premier League ever the question at the moment no doubt he's better than Ollie Watkins no no no what I'm saying is at the moment over 103 games if you look back over history has anyone got 100 goals no no no so at the moment you're right Sorry, you're wrong right now But if he stays like Paul For three or four years Them numbers might drop So you're saying The quality of defenders You don't feel the quality Of defenders right now Is the same That maybe A Van Nistelrooy Had to come up with Or a Shearer Robbie Fowler Michael Owen Les Ferdinand Alan Shearer I think they were playing In a very difficult time Scoring bundles of goals Run against you Cut it with So you look at the team That Erling Haaland Doing it for It's a wonderful team Everything is built Around making sure That he can flourish Alan Shearer was scoring bundles of goals for a Newcastle team that weren't exactly challenging for the league every year.

7:50I think it's fair to say that Alan Shearer was a more ruthless finisher than Erling Haaland. So you think Yashidas, Henry's, Van Nistel, all these players will get exactly the same numbers at Manchester City than Haaland? Maybe not, because not every striker had that ruthless pursuit of numbers that Erling Haaland demonstrates, and he is sensational for that. I think every striker has a ruthless pursuit of numbers. No, but other strikers do other things. Some strikers do prioritise other things. they do prioritise bringing others into play, being slightly more selfless. That's probably different types of strikers.

8:19I think the number 10s, you're probably thinking about that. Like we had Teddy showing him, Dwight, they were different. Absolutely. But Cole, Van Nistelrooy, oh, they're thinking about his numbers and scoring goals. But do you think, and obviously I'll defer to you, do you think that Erling Haaland is the best striker that the Premier League has ever had? Because I don't think he's anywhere near it. Like I said a minute ago, I think it's too early to say. I don't think you can say he's nowhere near it, though. Just because of the fact he scored 103, sorry, under and under the three games. It's ridiculous.

8:47Yeah, the output, no doubt. The output, no doubt. So what are you saying? It's got to be over a period of time? I think we have to factor in lots of things. I mean, the criticism I think that Harlan gets, and we maybe mention a little bit, when we talk about, I think there's a difference between a great goal scorer and a great player. And I would class Thierry Henry as a great player, even though he still scored lots of goals, whereas Harlan just feels like he's a goal scorer. Is that what you're talking about? I think that Michael Owen, for example, was a better goal scorer than Erling Haaland.

9:17He didn't score the amount of goals. He didn't score that volume. He doesn't have that back catalogue. So is that a better goal scorer than him? No, but you can. His numbers are worse. Surely it's more complex than whoever scores the most is the best. I suppose it's the ratio, isn't it, from chances to finishing? But isn't it? It's got to be more complex than whoever scores the most is the best. Otherwise, it's not even a conversation. Well, that's what I'm saying. You have to probably look at the ratio. I've not looked at facts. And who's setting you up? and the fact that he's playing for, like, who you're playing against, I think, is crucial as well.

9:42He scored 50 for the United side that won the Champions League in 08 or 99. He scored 50 goals. He wouldn't get in a team. Oh, come on. I'm not even joking. Would he have got in your team? Would Ernie Holland have got in your team? Come on. It would have been different, yeah. Yeah, it would have been very different. Would he have got in the team? It would have been part of maybe four or five centre-fold, yeah. Whether they played every week, I'm not too sure. I agree. Doesn't that answer the question? Sorry? You would have got 50 goals for you. No one was getting 50 goals then. 50 goals? 20 goals was like...

10:10So does that go back to Rory's point, the reason why people weren't getting that amount of goals because of the quality of defenders then? I think the football was different. I think the quality of defenders is a lot different than Rory. Oh, but look at... The quality of the defenders was different because Chelsea, for example, then, weren't really... We had our moments, but we weren't really competing to win the league. But Marcel Desailly was our centre-half. Yeah. John Terry. Yeah. We weren't one of the best teams in the league, but we had a French World Cup winner who'd won the Champions League with AC Milan.

10:39Who would you say is the best finisher then? I think that's combat. I think your Van Nistelrooy shout is an excellent one. I feel like Michael Owen gets overlooked. I think Luis Suarez was outrageous. Fernando Torres in his Liverpool era. I think the list goes on but I don't see it being Erling Haaland without... I think you have to put him in that category though, surely. You don't like him, do you? You really don't? Rory, Rory. I thought he'd clean. I'd have made him go viral Leo is a bit scarred. But look, overall, I just think that he's playing for the best team in an era where centre-halves aren't exactly...

11:13It's not a glorious era of centre-halves, is it? But the rest of the Premier League is incredible. Brighton are spending 200 million quid. The quality throughout the league is better, in my opinion. It's not... They're not brilliant centre-halves, though. No, that's true. But the sides that are in the bottom half of the team are playing expansive football and keep more of the ball. It's hard to get the ball of some of these sides. If that was the case, though, surely every other striker would have 13, 40 goals now. I think you're being quite harsh on centre-halves. But this becomes... I think that Erling Haaland, it's folklore stuff.

11:40It's Dixie Dean stuff. But you would never say that Dixie Dean is a better player overall just because he had the most amount of goals, would you? Don't remember Dixie Dean, do you? No, neither do I. That's what I'm saying. You don't need to remember him because you've seen the amount of goals he scored and therefore he's missed. Yeah, but Haaland's winning European Cups with his goals. I mean, Dixie Dean, with all due respect, it's a different calibre. There was no European Cup, Booth. Yeah, it was so long ago. It's been an absolute rubbish, then. Yes, I have. The ball was heavy. Clive, I'm going to go to you.

12:08What's your hot tea? I've got a few. Just give us one. Just one? It's not that hot, really. Well, give us the other one. I've said you've got a two. There must be one. One of them was Brighton to finish in the top five. Yes, good man. I saw them at the Emirates and I thought they were really, really good, really strong, and their movement up front was really top. So that was one of them. The other one was Eddie Howe to be England manager by Christmas. Oh, interesting We have an England coach at the moment Lee Carlsley is really, really good He understands what a team should look like But I think maybe we think we might need a manager If we need a manager, I think Eddie Howey's sitting there Ready to go So that sort of makes a bit of sense You've got stronger opinions than that, Scoles You stick to football, didn't you?

12:52In terms of having a manager Yeah I think the prestige of the England job Has possibly gone a little bit and I think employing somebody who's just coached you in the 21s who is a coach don't get me wrong he's probably a good coach I don't know him but I think England need a proper manager not somebody who's had experience in the 21s he's done well with whatever age group I think it's that important a job it has to be an experienced manager now look Eddie Howe comes into that I'm sure he does but again Eddie Howe's not really been that successful when it's coming to winning prizes. I think there's a brilliant squad of players there with England, an absolutely brilliant squad of players, I think, really talented.

13:39Older generation? Yeah. Been there, haven't we? And I think they need the manager, the coach, who lives up to that, do you know what I mean? He has to be of that stature. And I just think, I can't see Lee Carsey getting England over the line. I said that. I said, you know, if you're looking along the line at the Italian manager like Gareth Southgate did with Mancini probably I think Mancini would be looking and thinking I can beat him I can imagine Lee Carsey looking across the line I don't know who's a Spain manager well Delaf Wense he was under 21 manager for Spain yeah he was but he's a lot more experienced but Carsey beat him in the Euros at 21s didn't he you're just fighting no I'm not he's going to win it in a derby he's going to win it in a derby I don't get it he's going to stature at the new stadium I just think as England manager you need stature and I'm not sure Lee Carsley's got that stature.

14:33Yeah, no, fair play. I'm just saying the Spanish one was probably the worst. I know what you're saying. The worst one you could have picked. I know, I know.

14:46Chloe, what's yours? Mine is, there is no better chance for Arsenal to win the league than this season with Rodri now old. and who knows if they'll get any consequences this season for the Chargers, but I just think Arsenal have to go over the line. You don't think you've got a chance? I just don't want to put pressure back at Orlando. You think Liverpool are better than Arsenal? It's interesting. Squad or team? Squad. And possibly team, yeah. They excite me more. We weren't far. It's not nice saying that, but honestly Liverpool do excite me more when I watch them, when I see the players, everything they've got, it feels better than Arsenal.

15:31I think Pep could possibly be more worried than Liverpool than it is Arsenal. Look, we did better than what I expected last season. So I'm not saying that Liverpool can't challenge. I just don't think we've been there in the last couple of years, which might mean that they have the edge in terms of experience in the last couple of years. I think what's interesting is that I think last season surprised us all, didn't it? That Liverpool... and Liverpool were actually top of the league I think we had about seven or eight games to go now the fact we haven't bought any what everyone thinks a bit oh we haven't bought any because we need to improve City at a level and maybe Arsenal better than us but the one thing I would say is that we had so many injuries last season and it was unbelievable how we kept it going young players coming in the Carabao Cup final this one Joe Gomez at left back now a lot of that was probably down to how Jürgen Klopp played and how he trained it was really high intensity now the new guy if he brings a different way of doing things, which he will, it's his way.

16:26If Liverpool don't have the injuries that they had last season, and they mirror what they did last season, they will be in with a shout, they will be there. You've talked me into that. It's coming round, it's coming round. No, but what they did last season was unbelievable, as I said, with the injuries. And if they can be a lot fitter, you know, none of those injuries don't have to rotate as much, they might be there or thereabouts. I'd love it. You haven't got another one, have you, Clive? No, we were talking earlier, and I think, what Liverpool have done with Gravenberch has been a... Yeah, yeah.

16:56That's changed it. When, you know, I think, they didn't really have that sixth guy when Supermendy went away. I thought, they're going to struggle in there. But now they've found him, they're more of a serious outfit. And we were talking about maybe defensive stability. Maybe... Yeah, I still think that left side of defender. That's the key. What's happened to Robertson? No, listen, he's been amazing. I just think, playing for Jürgen Kopp for five years, running up and down that line, Simakas comes in, he's still playing for Scotland, Robertson. I just think, we could I've said it for a while now we could do what Man City have got where they've got a Gavariel or Nathan Aki someone of that type who not just going by a left back you know left footed defender which most teams have we don't really have at centre back because of Van Dijk he's that good but someone who could do a little bit of left back a little bit of centre back I think that's probably something that will happen Adam seeing as you've jumped in there we're going to go for yours I've got two but they contradict each other if you've won then and we'll never know it's a good fan I'm going to say both Shall I be positive on it?

17:55Eric Ten Hag will be here next season And another one, Ruud van Nistrooy will be manager by January

18:05I'm torn Well I'll tell you what, let's show our hands What do you think's more likely? Eric Ten Hag is at Manchester United next season Or Ruud van Nistrooy is manager at Christmas this night? Christmas January Christmas January So we'll put your hand up for Ruud van Nistelrooy as manager of Man United at Christmas. So is that more than... Yeah, go on, go the other way. I'm trying to work this out now. We'll turn to argue there next season. What is that? A little bit more... Is that no compuls? Alex the normal. OK, why do you think... I mean, obviously you're confident that United will have a good season.

18:41I just think I've seen it. It's like... We didn't really discuss it when we spoke about United, But throughout the season, this sounds mental, against Liverpool, yeah, I thought the first half were actually good. And then Casemiro just decides to set them up twice and we're 2-0 down. And it's like, oh man, how are we 2-0 down here? We've played all right. And then against Brighton, I thought, a bit unlucky, Zerks, his knee on the line and the goal gets ruled out, probably should have won. And then Crystal Palace, I thought we played well. And I think settling these new players into the team, we need time for that.

19:14And once they settle, I think the defensive line looks pretty good with Maz Raui and De Lowe and Lissandro Martinez. And Ana's keeping clean sheets somehow and saving penalties now. And I just think if we get that balance right in the team and introduce the players properly, we could do well this season. I think Ten Hag will settle in. But then on the flip side, I look at the fixtures and I go, all right, we might not win that one. We might not win that one. We might not win that one. And if we get to November and we're in that position, I think they might pull the trigger on him. because they obviously weren't really sure about him before.

19:47And I can just imagine us singing Rude Van Estrooy, tra-la-la-la-la, again. And it could be quite fun. So, I don't know. But it's a weird position at the moment. Well, one fan who was having a lot of fun, Luke. Come on, I'm sure you're hot to. It's quite wild. Villa have the best strike force combination in the Premier League with Durant and Watkins. They don't play together, do they? Well, they are starting to play together now. but I'm talking like if one's not playing the other one's Oh the rotation that means one's on the bench Yeah So I think we've got A better way Have you got the best number two striker in the Premier League?

20:24Yeah I think he means that if one replaces the other one It's not a lot He's in the couple with each other Yeah they've been playing together in the last couple of weeks like the last 30 minutes together so they've got that combination Durant sort of like made one of the goals which Watkins scored at the weekend as well so he's only 20 as well, Duran Rodgers has been good as well, hasn't he? Yeah, Rodgers has been really good What happened with Duran in the summer? He seemed like he was going to leave and then he stayed He was doing the hammer sign on Instagram Chelsea wanted him as well and he was just causing chaos but he's sort of come back and just settled down Was that for him at the club?

20:59Him really Behind the scenes, he's been a bit of a nightmare and he's just a wild character He's Colombian If you only play one at the front If you only play one at the front which one would you play? Watkins he's just integral to our team the way he presses isn't Joran got a pair of goals he's one minute less than Haaland average as a goal I think Haaland's 59 and Joran's 60 yeah every goal he scores off the bench is he the Mo Farouk with a striker in Premier League in history now on numbers he is Rory are you having him John Duran is he alright that's that is he okay alright Rory we'll go with you what's yours I think that Ange Poster Coglu will be sacked by Christmas.

21:42They always go against the clubs they go against. He mentioned United for no reason, do you know what I mean? Yeah, I think the Antiposal Coglio, I think he's getting away with it at the moment. I think that, generally speaking, the media feels like it's very kind to him. I think they treat him a bit like a media darling. He gets away with it, even on your fine show. I don't feel like you hold him to account the way that you would perhaps other managers and I don't really know why. I think if you look at the record, I think they kept four clean sheets in 38 games. They're not really winning games.

22:13So the Ravs are no good. Pardon? The Ravs are no good, are they? Yeah. So, look, overall, I just don't think that he... I don't think he's anywhere near as good as he needs to be. And people talk about his record all the time. Like, you know, that's... When I say people talk about his record, he does. You know this, I always win a trophy in my second season? You might do with the Whittle Sea Zebras, mate, but it's very different in the Premier League. It's very different. So, yeah, I don't even think it's particularly hot. I think it's fairly rational by my standards. It is. And it's possibly sacked by Christmas.

22:45I mean, I definitely feel whether it be, when you say media, darling, people sort of liked him in press conferences quite open and, you know, the accent and calling everyone mate and, you know, everyone there sort of fell in. And, listen, the football was brilliant, wasn't it, at the start of the season? They had great results. I have a really good memory to remember that football. Like, it was the first ten games of last season. That's why I said the first ten games of last season. Give it, give it. You've got to have a good memory. but then what happened which seems to be forgotten so they played 10-1-8 hadn't lost then they decided to defend on the halfway line and Nicholas Jackson scores a hat-trick as we batter Tottenham they had nine men didn't they had them they had nine men yeah exactly why did they defend on the halfway line with nine men I actually quite like watching them play football Tottenham no serious but no I think they are quite good to watch don't you I think it's crazy and that's why it's crazy it's a bit of madness but I think they try and win games, you know what I mean?

23:39Yeah, your enjoyment, though, it might be because they play quite an open, expansive game and therefore it's enjoyable for you as a fan of the game. But that doesn't necessarily mean that he's doing a good job because you enjoy it. No, it doesn't, no, but I think they're unlucky in games at the start of the season. I thought they could have won games. I know it's all right saying you could have and should have, but they haven't quite done that. The other thing is his dealings in the transfer market. That's 65 million quid for Solanke 50 million quid for Brennan Johnson That's going from a Chelsea fan Yeah There we go I mean the thing I think about Tottenham And I'm with you Scholes in that As a neutral you go Tottenham are playing You just think at the end You think there'll be goals They're quite open And I always think it's a worry for a manager When we look at a team And we say they're poor defensively But then you actually go through the back four And we all go Probably good players then You go like the right back's not He's alright The left back or dog He did really well last season Romero's a World Cup winner and everyone thinks Van de Ven is amazing you know lightning quick every time we watch oh he's a brilliant player so we're not looking at any of the back four and going oh he's a weak link or he's a really poor player I think Romero's been awful this season but my point being is it's not something doesn't really stand out you go whoa that's a nightmare and then they still can see lots of chances and lots of goals so that has to be the set up of the team and the manager I think the keeper's looks a bit shaky oh he's yeah do you think Do you think he could go by Christmas or is that too wild?

25:07With the keeper? No, listen, if he went on... You never know with Tottenham, do you? I think it'll be more... I think it'll be interesting to see if he's there next season. You know, when you have that sort of two years and if the signings, if Solanke or Brennan Johnson don't really kick on. Because they've spent a lot of money in attacking earlier under Postacoglio. Madison was£40 million. Madison's done well for them. But Johnson was£50 million. Solanke's£65 million. Madison's£40 million. Does someone else have missed? I keep feeling there was another player there. Lucewski? No, he was there before him.

25:38But they've spent a few quid in the attacking area of the pitch. And I just think for any Tottenham manager, can you get the team back to what they weigh under Pochettino? I know they didn't win, but they had that nice balance if they could attack, but they still felt like they were strong defensively. And I don't think they're there yet in terms of being tough to beat. The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts.

26:16Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K dot com. Post a job for free and get started today. A mochi moment from Mark, who writes. I just want to thank you for making GLP-1s affordable. What would have been over$1 ,000 a month is just$99 a month with Mochi. Money shouldn't be a barrier to healthy weight. Three months in, and I have smaller jeans and a bigger wallet. You're the best. Thanks, Mark. I'm Myra Amid, founder of Mochi Health. To find your Mochi moment, visit joinmochi.com.

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27:41Join us at Football University. Take a journey through football's amazing history. Subscribe to It Was What It Was Now. Greg, what's your hot take? I'll start by saying away from home. I think they're excellent. But the Anfield atmosphere is a myth. Been there three years now. I've done all the Championship League One games and it's just it's a strange strange atmosphere I don't know whether it's just playing Nottingham Forest or felt like you were pumping music through the speaker it was just strange You know what I think it's been a real topic Chloe you'll know this as well this season about the atmosphere and you think you've got a new manager is it the thing of like Klopp's gone maybe the football is slightly different because we're all sort of thinking about the atmosphere hasn't been great around Anfield this season and if I'm being totally honest The thing of the Anfield atmospheres was always built on European games, if I'm being totally honest.

28:36I think normal Saturday, 3 o 'clock games, like most fans, we sit there and wait for something to lift you rather than you lift the team. But I agree. Chloe, is that a fair enough assessment? Yeah, I think over the last couple of seasons it's not been great. I think people get a bit complacent. We were bossing the Jürgen Klopp, so everyone just thinks that's the norm now. We don't really need to do anything from a fan perspective. if it just happens on the pitch. And, you know, you can't take it for granted. You need to get behind the lads. And the Kop, I sit in the Kop, so I don't hear the other corners of the stadium, but the Kop is all right because that's what we're there to do.

29:12But it feels like in a lot of games, you need, you know, first five minutes, a harsh tackle to go in, something to happen. You know, Arsenal a couple of years ago when they're 2-0 up, it was just that little spark. You don't want to annoy that Anfield Kyle because that's when you get up. I also think what the Anfield crowd's best at is and maybe it's English football as well is in other countries there's just the same level of noise everywhere else nothing builds there's nothing that can put the teams under pressure because once they've dealt with that it's not like it goes higher and higher and higher where in the English game what happens is you might start really poorly you know that offside goal the other day against Bournemouth that woke us up and that was get switched on lads and you feel a crescendo and as I think Rob Edwards alluded to it last season they came to Anfield played boss then in that second half the crowd it built and built and built until they just felt too much pressure and I think that's what the best aspect of Anfield is but like you said European nights under the lights are totally different and when Liverpool come up against your cities your arsenals games that look you've beat us so I can't say that don't matter but games that just it feels like there's more on the line on edge then that's when it's greatest but you can't say the Anfield crowd's a myth because otherwise other managers other players wouldn't say anything I think it's more about the anthem at the start because we go 1-0 up with 20 minutes to go and I thought oh gosh here we go and it just never happened it was comfortable it felt fine 85 minutes they were walking around that might be something to do with actually you think of that might be something to do with the different styles of managing.

30:55That might be something we have to get used to as a fan base ourselves. And it won't be as just mad and crazy and it'll be a lot more measured. So maybe in situations like that. It is that. And we've got to try and get around that because there's a lot of times in the first half of games so far where the play is really measured by Liverpool. It's not heavy metal football. It's not this, the last stages of Jürgen Klopp. It was, we don't have the defence so we're just going to try and knock you out over the other side of the pitch. and you felt like any moment Liverpool could score a goal. The other day, we couldn't create anything against you.

31:28Even in the last, you know, after you scored, it didn't feel like Liverpool had an idea to unlock. It felt like we'd gone out of ideas. There was nothing there on the pitch for us to unlock the game. But I do think Anfield's card's gone down the last couple of years, and I think it's just because people have expected this boss football, and I'm so used to it, that you feel like you don't need to be there. You've got to be there. Well, Chloe, I'm going to make you the boss, probably. You're not going to win many games It's your job to sort this out in the cup It is a worrying epidemic though I think it's a really worrying epidemic Across English football The lack of atmosphere The lack of Owners are trying to push fans out You look at United I notice this on Liverpool on social media People always blame the corporate fans Or people from maybe outside of Liverpool Or the locals are not getting tickets Does that happen at other clubs and is that fair?

32:20It's an epidemic, yeah absolutely I think clubs, at Manchester United at the moment, I've had my season ticket for well over 10 years and stuff. And it's like, if you don't use it for X amount of games and you can't give it to your dad or anything, now you can't go anymore. Your season ticket's gone. And I think they're trying to push fans out that go every week because I ain't going to the mega store. I'm not going to go anywhere. And they want people that go in there for the one-off experience and buying all the stuff from the shop and all that. And I think slowly they're trying to push it out.

32:46I think Villa put the price up for the Champions League game. 94 quid. If you're not a season ticket holder, it's 94 quid. for any one of the four home Champions League games. That's another thing, because PSO, I believe, is being used just to pump prices upon tickets. Yes. Where the difference it makes is like£2 million. Chelsea recently changed an area. They called it the West View. It was like the West Upper. It was just a normal season ticket in the West Upper. They just rebranded that and they called it the West View, made it a corporate ticket and inflated the price by 300%. It's the same seat.

33:17It's the same seat. They just put a bar in there. The other thing I'd say is this NFC stuff also doesn't help because you can't get to the game last minute. It's not like you can go and give it to a dad and a lads or someone who wants to go the game. You've got to either give it back to the club, otherwise you can't go. You lose the credit, you can't go in the stadium. And the clubs are trying to stop touting by touting themselves. So if I sell my ticket back to the club, like Rory just said, they've set up a bar in the car park and you'll get my ticket for double the price and can go to the bars.

33:44So they're trying to push fans out whilst also sanitising the crowd a little bit, I think. It's happening everywhere.

33:56Baz, we're going to go to you. What's your hot take? Right, mine's not to antagonise any other club, but it's a good discussion point. Paul Scholes, best English midfielder in the last day. Oh, he's discussed. Discuss. Yeah, correct. Move on, move on. Discuss, talent, talent. You watch them every week. So is that your thing, Baz? That's it, that's it. Go ahead. Your mate, your mate, will you throw your mate into it? Yeah, of course. but I'm saying is that okay so we always talk about Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard you're not part they're tremendous no but you've got no skin in the game what I'm saying is so is that yeah because I think Wayne Rooney for me is the best English player ever ever like natural talent by Harry Kane's unbelievable great goal scorer but just pure passing ability and all that he wasn't bad the lad sat next to you so everyone else have you said oh have you said you played against him you've seen him no I think I think Scolese was unique, really, in English football, because when you think of midfield players, and I go back to being a kid, and what I thought of as a midfield player, it was Brian Robson, Peter Reid, Steve McMahon, you know, it was, you know, put your foot in, end to end, get a goal, that, and then Gerrard's like that, Roy Keane's like that, you know, you move on sort of 10 years later.

35:12Vieira's like that, you know, and then Scolese comes along. I wouldn't say comes along, but you said this, I think the other day on the other podcast was that where you actually started position wise and I what you said was what I've always felt that that role of people talking about you being a sitting midfield player and controlling the football I always felt that role came to you when Roy left late yeah yeah so it wasn't like that was your career no because Roy was the controlling midfield player and then obviously it became you and Carrick and then you became that sitting midfield player that everybody talks about right now that was different to English Yeah, it seems what people seem to remember is that deep line role, probably is where I played the last seven or eight years of my career.

35:54I didn't play the position that well, if you know what I mean, because I started off as a centre forward, really, playing a left-up. I played everywhere, but not really as a central midfielder in a holding role. And I just wanted to score goals, because I was a centre forward. The only thing I thought about was scoring goals and making goals. but as I said on that podcast I was never the greatest of athletes and I think as the game went on especially getting towards 30 years of age you had to be an athlete to be able to do that to be able to think of Roy think of Steve and Frank that they were proper athletes who could do that I couldn't do that so I had to change in some way and with United I was allowed the time to do that and the manager knew that he had to try and get something else out of me you might still score goals you might have scored the odd goal here and there, but you're just choosing your time, you're playing the position more rather than leaving yourself exposed in midfields, which we found in European games, especially away from home, you just couldn't vacate that area because everyone just passed the ball around you and you were dead.

36:59Does it feel like we're still almost looking, I mean, how many players have we had like you in that role? Because I think we go back to the summit and we go back to, we haven't had a even Zubomendi or Rodri in the final you go back to the final against Italy I think they had Giorginio and Verratti you go back to the semi-final in the World Cup I think Croatia had Modric we never seem to produce that type of player and you were that type of player later on in your career no that's fair to say Carrick was one that never got used yeah it was he was probably someone that could have played that role and freed up the likes of Gerrard Do you want me to be honest on that?

37:40I think Carrick was a brilliant... I mean, you'll know him better than me. And Michael Carrick, he was a bit younger than me. And a fantastic player. Played at Manchester United. But whenever we went to England, when we trained, I could understand why Michael Carrick didn't play. I think his character was... He wasn't quite himself, was he? He didn't burst out of it. I just think, what you've got to remember is, when you go to England, you're a 25-man squad there's probably seven or eight players who are probably a level above the rest of the squad I would say you know your starters you know and I think it was his character yeah you've got Stevie Gerrard there you've got Lampard there the imposing character the man in the ball they've just got a presence that I think I think Michael Carrick almost went smaller in England training and England games I just didn't know if he had the maybe it needed a little bit more arrogance I just feel like it would be up to the manager to kind of identify that this is a guy that's doing it week in week out for Manchester United, surely he can come into our midfield and kind of free up No but it's not that easy I think Cara's right Michael was a brilliant player, I absolutely love playing him, absolutely Rolls-Royce just sometimes when you went with England you said there was a presence of six or seven other midfield players and he almost stood back a little bit I didn't really fight against it.

39:05And I always felt it was something, I just want to give him a shake. Come on, you fucking, you're good enough to do this. You're good enough to play this. I'm not sure if he ever had that inner confidence and self-confidence himself to actually go on and do it. Interesting. By the way, can we just say, you all sat here, so I don't think anyone's going to say anything bad about you, anything negative. Still, you won't. Unbelievable player. I won't get offended, honestly. I was trying to open the floor. Unaffendable. I was trying to open the floor, but no, unbelievable player. Just wanted to put that out there.

39:31I thought you were going to say me off. I mean, I've literally just started. It sounded like I was actually being really harsh, and I wasn't. I was actually trying to say that people might be scared to be open because you sat there, that's all. I've always wanted to ask Scolzi. Go on, sorry, Adam. This is completely off topic, but as soon as we were talking about bad things about Scolzi. It's not too bad, but there was a time where you refused to play with Fergie, right? How did you react to that? How did it go down? What happened? How have we got to this? Fucking bad. I told you it was a good play.

39:58I said it was a good play. I've always wondered what happened there. What happened? As a fan, I was obviously like... I did.

40:08I made a mistake. I should have gone. We were playing Liverpool away on the Sunday. And I got left out of the team. Which, look, it happened all the time. And I was always one who wouldn't have stood if I got left out. And I was never... I was bothered, but I'd know why. That game, for some reason, it just really... it got to me because I thought I should have been playing and like I say if you had a bad game the week before then yeah I accept it yeah or somebody's better off for this game then yeah great but I just didn't agree with this decision at the time and the night after we were obviously playing Arsenal away aren't we and in the game I think we were 2-0 down at half time at Anfield at Anfield yeah and I thought right come on I'm ready to go I want to try and come on and make a difference to the team and I don't know if I was a bit paranoid or something I probably was I never spoke to the manager about this but Jim Ryan was the assistant manager at the time so I'm itching to get on I'm at the back I'm warming up all the time I go and sit behind him and think fucking hell we've been absolutely we've been shit on we've been rubbish getting beat getting battered 2-0 but like I said I'm itching to get on and I'm probably just paranoid of me I'd have gone I had a feeling that the manager said to Jim Ryan no we're leaving for tomorrow and that just got to me so I think they brought me on maybe five or ten minutes ago with the intention of playing me the night after which was it was Arsenal away in the League Cup where we started playing all the young lads so I'd have been probably the only first teamer to go and say your state of mind sometimes it doesn't probably think I might have just been paranoid at the time but I just felt there was something against me at that time I went home and, look, I totally regretted it.

42:00It was, of course, to not play for Man United, to refuse to play for Man United. Look, I thought my time was up, in all honesty, but I think when I go back to that time, me head had just gone. And sometimes... Did the manager kind of identify that? It was out of character and you were all right? Well, luckily enough, we was meeting up with England the day after. He had a nice ten days to calm down. I say calm down we had a bit of a meeting in the office when I got back and it was all sorted Maz

42:40we're going to go to you last on there what's your hot tea yeah Paul Sculls is the worst no no mine is I think I don't know if it's a hot take really but I've got two first one is officiating is the worst it's ever been in the Premier League and I say that and I say that because let me explain why I think that is first of all I feel like VAR gives them a safety net to make mistakes so they know that if they make a mistake they've got VAR to back them up and I feel like you see so much inconsistency as well you look at even Brighton Forest like the Gibbs White he starts going oh he's got the ball he's got the ball next minute you know he's been sent off and the two managers have been sent off as well and then obviously some big decisions in the Man City Arsenal game as well I just feel like there's no consistency with officiating and I feel like it's an all time low purely because there's just they've got, like I said, they've got that safety net to be able to make mistakes, but instead of actually being good referees.

43:31I mean, I feel like we probably say this every season, at some stage, this is the worst it's ever been, and I think sometimes we forget what it was like in the past. My thing, when you talk about the safety net with VAR, that I get frustrated with, and a lot of people have a different opinion on it, people are obsessed with the refereeing, like, oh, it's the referee who's got to make the decision, it's the referee who's got to make the decision, it's like, well, what's the point of VAR? ah, we're so obsessed with the referee being the one who makes the decision. It's like, I argue that the decision you're talking about, I think where Gibbs White makes the tackle, and the referee says he got the ball, it's obviously the fourth official.

44:10But why is the fourth official making that decision? What I'm saying is, we have no problem when an assistant spots something off the ball, or this, or we back the linesman to get the offside, or he'll see something, he'll give a foul that the referee hasn't seen. Because for me, the officials are a team, and they've got to work together. So if the fourth official, and you go back to the World Cup final in whatever that was, 2006, it was the fourth official then who said Zidane's but a maternit. So they're a team. So I don't understand this obsession where it's got to be the referee on the pitch.

44:42If they are seeing something that the referee hasn't, I don't understand why they can't, say, make that decision. But it's like, oh no, the referee doesn't think it's enough of a mistake or it's a, what's the word people use now? Clear and obvious. Where's clear and obvious? Where's this bar where that is clear? It's different for everyone. So I think VAR should be used, not more in terms of stopping the game, but just a word in referees here. That should be that, that should be that. They're all part of the same team and it's about getting the right decision. But I think that's what it is. The whole system, for me, the refereeing system at the moment is a bit flawed.

45:17I feel like there's so many issues. I think it stems back maybe to training. Are they educated properly into the laws of the game? also as well communication no one in here knows the laws of the game no no but the referees need to and also I feel like we don't get communicated as fans when we're in the stadium no one knows what's going on when the VAR can I say something why can't we have rugby can I say something because we've suffered a little bit this season for referees but for me it's about the environment they're refereeing from a new edict comes in around kicking the ball away who asked for that who asked for that not Declan Rose seriously who asked for that we can't normalise that we can't normalise people leaving the pitch for that.

45:54We can't normally... So that environment's been created by them, by their seniors, and it's OK to be this way. Manage the game. Just manage it. Take a breath. Manage the game. Manage what people are watching. Now, don't dive into something to distort a game. But I totally... And that's how I was on referees to referee. But then you've just said you want consistency. So if someone kicks the ball away, we want that to be exactly the same right across the board do we all Trossard Trossard kicking the ball away for me is completely different to Declan Rice now I wanted the referee to manage the Declan Rice situation I think he could have just stopped the game get the two of them together Declan Rice was going down trying to get in booked he was trying to get in booked but what I'm saying is get the two of them together it's no big deal the ball's only rolled there manage the game I agree but Trossard is different but then you'll get someone saying well he kicked the ball away how far away he only kicked it that far he kicked it it's like I just think it's difficult for referees now because they always get that thrown at them oh it's not consistent but you've lost that a referee managing a game do you agree with that?

47:02Common sense you've lost common sense because they have to live by the letter of the law and everybody's watching you talk about managing a game you and Michael Oliver were talking probably about our best referee there and I thought from the first minute he was very panicky he was rushing into decisions and it just never felt like there was a a float to the game I think you're right we're talking about our best referee isn't that worrying though that our best referee is well that's what I'm worried about and that's standard so surely what are the other referees that standed at so he was struggling and the reason why he was struggling you can tell he was struggling because he brought the captains over he said look I'm in a bit of trouble here can you sort this lot out then what's he doing well I think he said that I think he said actually I think he said look lads I'm the main actor here I'm going to do something in a minute to pay and change the game that's what I think he might have said but then what's he doing Michael Oliver there with Trussard yeah Michael Oliver no not Trussard when he pulled him in with him and he was struggling to hold the game so what's he doing then Carl Walker's situation doesn't quite let him doesn't quite let him get settled you can blame City for not standing on the ball but he can't stand on the ball anymore so basically he brought that upon himself because he didn't manage the physical contacts earlier in the game and then he books Trussard to manage the game the first one which is a booking but Jamie you know the unwritten rule is look I need to do somebody to control the game.

48:18But maybe the second card is maybe a little bit... OK, I use you to control the game. I'll let you off on the second card. What do we do? We send him off. Troste's a professional footballer. He didn't follow the letter. I'm not going to... I'm not going to go there. The Rice was booking as well. It could absolutely be a technical booking, but I honestly believe when we were watching England in the summer, we weren't thinking, I can't wait to get back to the new season and see some players set up for kicking the ball away. No, it's grim. That wasn't our priorities. that wasn't our priorities you get Brighton's manager gets sent off for encroachment Pep's on the pitch I tell you what something to keep a note on he's got a bit of a reputation for getting sent off Pep does it five or six games doesn't he?

48:58Yeah, you've not seen his record before he comes in I haven't seen it He likes it there He's the first of many We're talking inconsistency Pep's on the pitch all the time Pep's on the pitch Arteta Oh Arteta Oh yeah The fourth manager was swearing He said I'm on the ballot Brighton manager The fourth manager was swearing Yeah, that was right. He got sent off as rifles. What's happened, dude? We're allowed to swear. There might be kids watching. Forest manager swearing. Sing bins for kicking the ball away. It'll have to end there. We've all got homes to go to. Listen, another brilliant episode of the Fan Debate brought to you by SkyBet.

49:57We'll be right back.