The Business End Of The Season | Fan Debate 2024

0:00The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today. You obviously want Ten Hag to stay. Do you think he will stay? Do you think they'll keep him or let him go? I think we'll have a new manager next season.

0:39I'm not sure you understand how much I hate Arsenal. I think you do flab. I hate Arsenal as much as I love Tottenham. Someone like Conor Gallagher as well. Probably one of the few men in this world I'd kiss. I mean, you keep so much about net spend and what you buy and what you sell. Your wage bills and that as well. We sat on this since 2021 and you said that's the worst run club in the country and I agreed with you. We may go to Wolves and drop a few points, that's fine, but I'm not worried about going to Etienne. Do they know what they're doing, the owners, in terms of running a football club?

1:06I'm just a Chelsea fan, so I hope so. That's why, yeah. I'm in. I know they've put themselves in it. Oh my God!

1:19Hi all, and welcome to the Overlap Fan Debate, sponsored by Skybet. And we're going to get fans from up and down the country to give their views over the next hour. So where are we starting? We're starting, I think, with the title race, aren't we? OK. It's not Man United we're starting with, then. Who are we starting with? Come on, you must want to start, you're champions. Yeah. Come on, big Steve, make your point, make your case for City winning the title again. Yeah, no, listen, we've not been playing too well, but we're getting the job done. You know what I mean? There's a lot of people saying, are they going to do it?

1:51The performances aren't the same level as last year. We're watching Arsenal scoring a lot of goals and that, but City just have that habit. where coming towards the end of the season, Pep Guardiola seems to start that rhythm. And it's all about the rhythm for me. When I watch City week in, week out, I can see when they've got that rhythm. And they seem to get that togetherness. And then the fans start pulling together and that. And it's all down to Sunday for me. It's all down to Sunday. We haven't got a great record at Anfield, but there's no excuses. We're the champions. Did you get nervous in the runnings?

2:22You know, I'm looking at a Liverpool fan, I can imagine, ah, still right now, you're checking each other's results. but you're there that often nine times I was saying get the job done do you still go through it the way makes me ill does it really bad and I'm not that's no joke you don't look too good yeah it's all them trophies weighing me down what part makes you ill though no because it's it's relentless because I'm at the I've been sort of pushed to the front of the Manchester City fan community so I'm sort of there at the front so if we take a a loss they're on me you know the pressure are you going to win Sunday if you lose Sunday and then I start overthinking it myself because I'm there week in week out I'm in Europe I'm at the club Sundays working I'm live and breathe it so I literally feel sometimes like I'm part of the set up and I remember the season we had to win like 14 games on the trot and we won it at Brighton and I came out of the ground and we all had these great plans of going to celebrate the title I just sat on a bench with a can of coke and thought thank God that's old It wasn't you that threw the beer at me was it?

3:26No, but I remember that. Out of order, that one. It was out of order, yeah. I don't think that was City fans, it was Brighton fans, that must have been. It wasn't. Do you think, who are you most worried about? Are you worried about Arsenal? Liverpool and City have had a massive rivalry for years, normally going head-to-head for the big trophies. Are you just worried about Liverpool? Do you see Arsenal being a problem for you? I said it on the first overlap. I said at the beginning of the season, I thought Liverpool would be the one. I think it's because we've gone toe-to-toe for that long. And it's like, you know, you're looking at Liverpool and you think, they're losing.

3:58I'm not saying anything. And then bang, they've won, two, one. Klopp's fist pumping the cup again. You're thinking, God, not again. Then it's over to us. Then we win. You think, right, let's have a breather. Then they win. With Arsenal last year, I knew in my head that they didn't have it. And they were telling me, we're going to do this, we're going to do that. I was the one that stood outside the ground and said, there's blood in the water. There's a big blue shark behind you. I'm walked off planting their seed, you know what I mean? They're like, we're rattled and all that. But at the end of the day, they are a different Arsenal.

4:25They've added Declan Rice. They've got to have learnt from last season, for me. I think they were a little bit naive near the end. I think they were going up against teams they were expecting to blow over. They were finding themselves 2-0 down, chasing the game. The crowd at the Emirates were getting all up and down. Whereas City, we go 2-0 down at home now. Nobody's forcing it, you know what I mean? We trust the manager, we trust the team. But Declan Rice has been massive for them. They're blowing teams away. It's just whether they can get over the line. I don't think they can. Yeah. Abi, the game at the weekend, what are your thoughts?

4:58I'm worried about it, to be honest, but you just feel like Aranfield will be all right. That's the thing. But because Klopp's leaving, it just feels like there's a sense around us now. And I know us Liverpool fans, everyone says it, we can romanticise things. But the idea of being able to win the league when he's going... Listen, I don't mind if the Carribeau Cup, if I'm saying it right, is the last trophy that we win with him because we'll still have a parade, we'll still celebrate it, we'll still build him his statue. I don't mind that, but obviously I want to win more, but we'll still be so grateful for him.

5:27I think it's just the romanticised Liverpool way of looking at it, that it just, it feels as though it's ours because we're winning in so many different ways. Have you ever, I mean, I haven't, but I just want to ask you, have you ever, do you believe at any stage this season Liverpool would win the league? I feel as if Liverpool have got to beat City at the weekend, certainly for me, to sit there and go, I think Liverpool are going to win the league. and I think I will believe that if Liverpool go four points clear with ten games to go. Yeah, it's definitely this game. This is definitely the game that I've been looking towards.

5:59There hasn't been a time this season where I've gone, we're going to win it. I've probably sang it at the match, top of the league and all that, but I haven't actually thought that it's going to happen. I think I even said before, I do still think that City will get it, but it's probably just trauma from the amount of times that we've just scraped it by one point, standing there again and again, and Anfield just knowing that it's not going to happen. and I just if we win this game on the weekend I'll start to believe I'll change my answer but I don't know I am nervous for it but it just feels like being at Anfield will be fine you know it's difficult What do you think's going to happen at the week?

6:30What do you think I mean I think City are going to go I think City are going to beat you I want Liverpool to want the league to be opened up I think City are going to win on Sunday and he's going to come and I think he's just going to put a right job in Well I think you know better than me how you know there's been different City teams has there been better City teams than this I don't know You go back to David Silva was playing in And Aguero was in And they never came and won I just think The Anfield crowd I think Liverpool's team As well You're going to see Who's actually available Who can play I think missing the goalkeeper Is a big miss Even though The young lad's been brilliant But Pep does have a problem there At Anfield I think Has he only been there With City I don't think he did come With Barcelona Or Bayern Munich To be fair But the only game You've won was Without a crowd wasn't he under Pep in probably six or seven years City's record in general forget Pep and this team even Mancini's teams Pellegrini's your record at Anfield's not great I mean is that in your head as a supporter do you think it gets into the heads of the players as well yeah it's about if you let that crowd get a grip of you you can feel it you know I can look at City me and I can think some of these are rattled here by the crowd they've let the crowd I think City's got to get the ball and control the play we've got to make that game at our pace.

7:47Kevin De Bruyne's got to get plenty of touches on it and I think we've got to calm it down. There's a little section in the Manchester derby on Sunday after United had scored where the players were trying to force it and Bernardo Silva, he got a message off Pep and he went round and he was going, calm down and then we all took a breath and then we got back on our game. I think the Anfield crowd can knock us sometimes off that and I feel like on Sunday we've got to dictate the play. We've got to be patient. I don't think we have to force it. I think we can just play our game, and play our game and if we can nick it we can nick it but the crowd for me I've sensed it I've thought we're comfortable we're winning and then within 15 minutes something's happened the place has gone upside down and then next minute we're two down and it's like we can't afford until it happens I always say that about Anfield there's no other ground that you feel like you're alright all of a sudden it can just go bang and it's something that hits you and you think we lost two goals there but I think at Anfield you've got to win it in the first half I always thought when we played at Anfield we always had to damage them in the first half and make them realise that we were a real threat I think if you go through that first half and they grow in the game and grow and grow I think you've got a problem but I think if you hit them in that first half I think you'll win Sunday I don't know why Liverpool at the moment is still reeling with injuries they're scrambling through games like you wouldn't believe at the moment they are literally scruffy as hell but there's something they've got momentum but I just think Sunday can be too much for them I don't know I just think with the crowd and I think with when you think you're talking about injuries don't get me wrong but when you look at actually Liverpool's starting 11 which I think would not be far off first choice I would say would you think on Sunday if Salah's back Nunes is back Sabozlai's back you actually then look at the team on paper and you go it's probably Trenton the keeper who are not there and we've known the keeper's not going to be there for a long time it's not like it's this big shock so yeah especially when you've got Mo coming back I mean he's just travel to Prague as well, so you're just thinking we should be alright here.

9:47You are looking at the starting 11. The bench looks poor, to be honest. I mean, this is the thing. I've got full faith in the kids now, though. I mean, Dan's has got a concussion, which is a bit of a blow, because I imagined he'd play in Prague today, but I don't know. I just feel like the crowd getting behind them is definitely the main thing. We'll be alright. Abby, we'll be absolutely fine. That's the thing. I just think we're going to be fine, because of the ground. That's probably just because I'm going to be there, dead angry. But I feel like since Klopp's announced he's going, the atmosphere has just gone even more Normally it takes something to happen in the match for us to go, we need to get behind us now.

10:17But we've all constantly got this thing of Klopp's going every game, you're ticking down his last game at Anfield. You've got to make sure that they're all as exciting and we've got to make sure we're behind them so we can win as much as possible. I just, I don't think City are going to beat us. Would you take a draw now? No. No, definitely not. Clive, I want to bring you in there because you're going to be in a similar situation in a couple of weeks against Manchester City. And where do you feel with this sort of being in between these two teams? And there was something I looked at, and we did the show on After Your Game Monday Night Football, that they have this opt-to predictor.

10:55I don't know where they get the numbers from, but Arsenal have a 15 % chance of winning the league. I don't know how they compute it, but I think he's a writer in there. Not just because of the points, because the actual form that you're in, the way you're playing. It's how we're playing. I think it's really interesting listening to you guys. I think there's a narrative of City, what they're doing, repeating the treble, where they end up. And we're all sort of used to them winning. So we get comfortable with it and we can see their drive. And you've got obviously a narrative of Liverpool and what they're doing.

11:25But I think with Arsenal, I think people are missing our narrative. Tell us. What is it? People are looking at, why not look at Odegaard and think, he might have been a bit upset he didn't win the league last year. And the way he's playing is showing that. Why don't you look at Saliba and think he missed the last 11 games last season, he's fit now. We lost defence disability last year. When we played Liverpool and played City this year, have you guys watched these games and you feel the crowd? Have you felt that we've looked inferior in those games? Because we've managed to box people away from getting near our goal.

11:58So we've got a way of playing that's quite sustainable. Now I'm not sure what's going to happen, but I think we're in danger of missing that these guys want to write their own story. and their own story may not be as naturally to us to lean towards that Klopp going and what we used to see, but they want to write their own story and write it for the first time. And so when you look at this group with an average age, which is still the third youngest in the league, I ask you honestly, we're on the up escalator and we're going to be better. We're better than last year. This year we're much better.

12:28We're going to be better next year. We're going to be better the year after. All the contracts are signed. The organisation, we look really, really good and connected. So the story of connection to the players, the club, the fans, we're just like ignoring it because they're bigger narratives than we're used to sitting around. So that's my feeling. So you're disappointed then that people aren't talking about you? No, actually, I used to get really disappointed. I used to get like, oh my God, why are not people talking about us? But actually, in the end, if you just keep winning in a style and show people what you're actually doing, eventually people have to turn and have a look.

13:01Have a look, how many shots they conceded, how many goals they scored, look at the XG difference in the table this isn't like he did all this Monday you know I think you're the best team I said it last week you're the best team at the moment you've got the performance levels defensively and attacking you're playing better than City you're playing better than Liverpool I think you're in a better position than you were last year in the sense that I've got more confidence this year that you're not going to go and do what you did because with Declan Rice there Saliba there obviously a year on I think you're dangerous and I think you're really dangerous and I think just sit there just sit on the shoulders and let them fight between themselves if you can let the narrative be about them because I think if you just sit there with four or five games to go and stay at the performance levels that you're at you're definitely the best team at the moment it's whether you've hit I wanted you to hit your form a month or so ago but now I'm asking have you hit the form too early because you're actually in an unbelievable period but we'll find out we'll find out in the next few weeks I think you can go there's very few teams I think Liverpool have been one of those in the past where you think they could actually go to City and do something.

14:03I'm not saying win, but I think you could go there and definitely get a result. Even last year, you went there, but I think everyone was watching and thinking, you just fancied City just to... You'd gone then. But I think you have to go to City and win. Yeah, and I think... I remember last year I was getting excited like everybody else. The first 14 games, win 12, draw one, lose one. Everyone's excited. It's new. It's new for us as fans. 20 years since we've been here. And you know what, City fans messaged me and said, mate Clive, relax mate, this is a course, don't go too soon. And it stuck in my mind that did, and he was dead right.

14:42We blew up towards the end, defensively we were just destabilised. This year he's focused a lot more on what we do off the ball. And make sure we're stable, and then on the ball things are starting to go in. And so I'm a lot more confident that we are more mature to do better. But sometimes I'm trying to box it off my mind and say, I want us to win, but if we don't win, are we progressing? And I think we definitely are. Hands up, we're asking here who's going to... What do you think? Who do we all think will win the league? City, put your hands up for City. I really hope City. For obvious reasons.

15:19We were all right, weren't we? On a personal level, I think you're a fantastic human being. How patronising is that? Isn't it better that no-one's talking about Arsenal? I do. He's definitely talking about it. He's definitely talking about it. Honestly, I used to get so upset with you two. I used to get so upset that we weren't being looked at. But I thought, you know, it's not important. What is important is how we're doing it. I'm worried as a Spurs fan about Arsenal, even in their position. I've seen the stats that gave me some comfort, only 13%. But it really doesn't matter because a victory against Manchester City puts Arsenal, unfortunately, in a really good position.

15:57Whereas last year I thought it was going to implode and brought in a lot to what you said, Gary, that it was always going to be City. To me, it's just something. It's just nagging. They do look incredible, defensively especially. And I'm just praying for City every week now. Who do you think will win it? You said Arsenal at the start of the season. I said City. I'm going to stay with that. To be fair, the likely favourite is City, but I'm going to stick with Arsenal. but just something tells me that they've got some... I think, obviously, if that team that you've got out there at the moment stays fit, then I think you'll do it.

16:31Can't have an own last day as well. To be fair, you've actually got United away, haven't you? Yeah, there's a few grounds... Liverpool have got United away as well, I think. There's a few grounds that we need to go and fix. You've got tough away games. Yeah, but we've got... You've got to come to Spurs. You've got to come to Spurs. You've got to come to Spurs. But if you want to win this thing, you have to go there and beat these teams. Yeah. So I don't think we have to beat City. We do need to not lose. Tottenham, City, Wolves, Brighton, Man United. I think that'll just stop you. I think you have to beat City because you're going to need a cushion.

17:02The buffer. You're going to need it, honestly. That's what I think, yeah. I think Liverpool and City, you can't look at City and think other teams will take points off them. You two have to beat them. Honestly, you have to think that way because if you don't go and beat them, then... Well, if Man City don't lose points in the next sort of four or five games, Your last four or five decent games, your tough ones are now, aren't you? So I think it's got to be here or now, hasn't it, for Arsenal? You can't sit there and say, I don't think we have to beat City and then expect other teams to do you a favour.

17:30That mentality to shift to become champions. When you win a championship in the past, you came to Old Trafford and all of them are scored. You came to Old Trafford and Wiltord scores. You win at the big ground and then all of a sudden everyone goes, oh, I think if you go there and draw, I'm not saying Pep will be happy with the draw, he won't be, but ultimately they'll just take the fight down the road somewhere else and they'll win all the other games. They bully teams. They bully other teams. Yeah, you watch a game on the weekend, obviously, and Man United not in their best moment, but they had moments.

17:59They had moments in that game. And I think City are showing a level of vulnerability in their back line they don't normally show. So they can have moments, we can definitely have moments. I don't know what happened to United after half an hour because, to be fair, they look quite... You just went back to being United. They were quite strong defensively They were strong defensively. They were restricted in City to very few moments and good chances. So what I'd say is that's as good as it can get for United. But they were going forward. Rashford had the chance where he should have had it in front of him.

18:30Rashford had the chance where he should have played it across the goal to, I think it was Mac Tomlin who was in the middle or someone. So there were three decent chances in the first half now. Then all of a sudden, after that, they actually never went forward once, hardly. I can't remember them going forward again. So I don't know what happened to them. The belief went. And I know people took the mickey out of us. I don't think it was. I think their legs went. Maybe. Because they're moving around trying to get the ball back. You know we won the charity shield in the community shield in the summer.

18:53People had a giggle at us celebrating. But for belief, that was really important. Really important to stand with them. Feel their power and see if we can deal with them. And that continued into the league game. That gave us confidence for Anfield. That gave us confidence for the home game. And I think people are not realising here. Hold on a minute. They're not worried about these teams anymore. We may go to Wolves and drop off a few points, that's fine, but I'm not worried about going to Yeti. Are you woody about going there, Flav? Come on, Tottenham, you're trying to sneak into the Champions League, you're playing Manchester City, Liverpool and Arsenal in this run, so you've got a big say in where the title's going to go.

19:30Yeah, 100%. I think we will have... There will be implications based on how Spurs perform on where the Premier League title goes. In the same way that Liverpool are going to be super motivated against Man City at the weekend, and obviously North London derby, we would consider as to be the most fierce in the Premier League. Certainly up there. And despite how good Arsenal have been over the years, if we get last season, they've found it difficult to win at Tottenham. Postercoglu's system now will be able to create chances against any team. And what Spurs have struggled with recently is anyone...

20:04The best way to beat Postercoglu's Tottenham is low block counter. but the better teams will want to play more possession-based football. Arsenal is built into their DNA to do that and so it'll be a fascinating game against some of the better teams in Liverpool. You'll see a different brand of football and a different performance and games that for a neutral will be fascinating to watch.

20:36You're involved in the title race, but obviously you need points for yourself. Yeah. Would you take Posta Coglu and Tottenham getting back in the Champions League if that meant Arsenal won the title? No. Wow. It's real hatred right there. Really? I respect it. No, not at all, no. No, we'll get in the Champions League next year. Do you think? Yeah, we'll have a good chance in it. But you're asking me to go for... I'm not sure you understand how much I hate Arsenal. I think we do fluff. I hate Arsenal as much as I love Tottenham. You sound like an Everton fan. I've put this on so you remember when you were an Evertonen.

21:19I'm kidding. So, yeah, but with... At this stage, where we are currently, I would have bitten your hand off at the start of the season. We did this and you asked me what was happy with Poster Coglu's arrival at Spurs. Where we were eight months ago under Conte, it's night and day. I look forward to going to watch Spurs play. And that's something... There's not a massive difference on where you are in the league, is there? Yeah, but it's about the nature of the performance, right? If you'd... I mean, we're probably... Yeah, not dissimilar. I think we're a bit further back. but we're playing exciting, interesting football, possession-based football.

21:58We want to force the way the game's going and we're not passive in the result anymore. It has been frustrating against teams like Wolves and Ville who came and won by playing just sensible football. It wasn't difficult to beat Spurs on that day, West Ham as well. But it will click and it's going to take time for Postacoglu. I know it's going to take time, I get that, But do you think Postacoglu and Tottenham can get back to challenging footovers? He didn't win them under Pochettino, but do you think he's got the capabilities to actually get in there amongst it the way Arteta and Arsenal have? I think we're at the start of a journey.

22:34Arteta has been there, what, five? This is his fifth season. And they've spent to the tune of£600-700 million. They're about where they should be. He knows more about Arsenal than you. Is that not true? £700 million, about right? So you should be where you are. If you weren't, it would be a complete failure of your position. If you don't win it, you really need to look at what's going on there. LAUGHTER I generally think we're imploding, actually. I generally do think we're imploding. There isn't another 700 billion. 31 goals for this season so far this year. You're very good. It looks like a team that's been put together with£700 million.

23:11That's what people do. They try to put you into a box where success criteria is you have to win. Of course you have to win. And we were talking earlier about how you feel standing in the terraces right now compared to how you feel with Conte. But is that the problem with Tottenham? You're never in a position where you have to win. There's always, oh, we're Tottenham, or we haven't spent this, or we've got Daniel Levy, or we haven't got this. So there's never that pressure on Tottenham to win. No, you're right. And, you know, a lot of people, like I've got a mate of mine, James, he's a QPR fan and he can't stand me moaning about Spurs.

23:39But what Spurs are in is a mini league of six teams, seven teams. And we're bottom of that constantly. We're part of the big six, but the worst of it, statistically and based on trophies. But we need to get into a position where we think differently, operate differently. I think that Daniel Levy, although he's come under intense criticism from Tottenham fans, recently has positioned us with financial fair play in a very strong position. From this position, we'd be able to spend, and unfortunately that's what you have to do in the Premier League, is spend the most money, give yourself the best chance.

24:11For the first time in a long time, I think Daniel Levy has positioned Spurs in a way that we can, maybe, challenge for a league title in... Because he's driven revenue, you mean? Revenue driven, yeah. And don't get me wrong, he's just literally... He was building up some goodwill, people are starting to forget about what they thought about him last year. Poster Coglu's changed the mood in the football club. He's got the ticket prices today, hasn't he? It's like, what are you doing? What's 6 % going to do? You've got an F1 track Beyonce's playing there Every other week You've got You've got It's already the most expensive ticket She's not going to win you the league She's not going to win you the league NFL as well She's not Harry Kane NFL So you've got all of this Great revenue Brilliant revenue When was the last time He put the tickets up I don't know He froze He froze last year I think But yeah It's gone up He puts them up Basically most years It's been a bit of a jump today There's a problem isn't it Between Arsenal and Tottenham fans Are not happy with the ticket prices I read this morning Yeah Well, both of ours are the most expensive.

25:08Yeah, I mean, it's London prices, right? But, hey, look, it's not something I'm going to sit here and say I welcome, but the demand is massive. And, Gary, you're in business, right? If the demand is that big, what are you going to do? What's 6 % mean in cash terms for a Tottenham ticket? Five quid off three? It depends. What's the cheapest ticket? I think season ticket cheapest one's around 900 quid. My mate's just, his season ticket has just gone up to£1 ,115, I think he said. And he's genuinely considering whether or not he can actually afford to go. And the club don't care. They could not care less who is in that stadium, what their affiliation is to the football club as long as they come.

25:51And what Spurs have done in building that stadium, as incredible as it is, some of what made it so special for me to follow the football club and a lot of fans, It's not that it's not there It's just so different from the old White Hart Lane And it's fine We understand development We understand how football How you have to build revenue in football To try and be successful But when you're not It's kind of hard to correlate He won't be making any extra money Out of that 6 % Because obviously the energy costs have gone up The staff costs have gone up Should he swallow them? Inflation He should swallow them So he either has to stay where they are and means he loses more money effectively or he just wants to stay exactly where they're currently at.

26:31How much money has he lost on Ndombele in the last five years? I'm just saying he'll just purely look at his business forever. He's just sending a message to the Salford fans what's coming. The energy prices have gone. We have the cheapest ticket in the whole 92 clubs. All right, forget Salford. Luke, you're going to be competing with them. I wish you would. For the Champions League position, I think you're four or five points ahead of them right now. Are you confident to stay in that position? 100%, yeah. I think this season we've been amazing. The best season I've had sporting Villa. And not only because of where we are in the league, but it's the type of football that we're playing.

27:04Last time I was on, we were talking about what Emery's going to do to Villa. He's quadrupled what I thought he'd do in my mind. We're now playing possession-based football, controlling games. He's got his identity. And it's just growing and growing. And we're far from the finished article. And it just feels like we're going to get better and better. You see, from the finished article, I did the newspaper column about six months ago and the Villa fans slaughtered me for it. But I just feel with Villa right now is that the manager you've got is brilliant, the team you've got is brilliant. You've got to sort of hit it head on now and probably the next 18 months because you don't know what's coming down the line.

27:40Because if Emery keeps doing this and Aston Villa, would someone else, a European giant, would a bigger club come and try and take him away from you? Do you have that fear or do you think he's in it for the long haul? No, I think when I look at Emery, we all know that he's won European trophies elsewhere. And I really feel like last time he was in the league, he wasn't himself. He didn't give a full Unai Emery performance. And I think when I hear him talking now about his determination of wanting to succeed in the Premier League, I think he wants to create like an era at Villa. And I think he feels like the club's fully behind him.

28:17You know, we've recently just invested in his La Liga team. So, you know, that shows that sort of like it's basically like a new contract, really, that we've backed his team that he owns in La Liga. I think it's like the second division. So I feel really comfortable and safe with Emery. And I just think, yeah, like the progress from Europa Conference League, Champions League, you know, we're absolutely flying. And like I say, the brand of football is brilliant. We can be controlled with our possession, but we can also be fast and direct with Watkins and Bailey on the break. I think the brilliant thing about Villa, I think, and I'm looking at you as well, Leibaz, is that there's so many teams sat here now who you think, when's it ever going to get better for us?

28:58And you think where Villa were a couple of years ago. I think you stayed up by goal line technology, not basically working for the first time ever in the Premier League. I think Kepja's in the Premier League. A couple of years later, you're on the verge of the Champions League. It's a brilliant sort of, gives hope. isn't there an issue though because obviously the loss has come out hasn't it 120 million I heard Emney not long ago saying we might have to sell Ali Rockins to keep in and this is the problem with the Premier League the way it is is that and I've heard I've heard Eddie House saying we might have to lose Isaac well is this what we've created now don't say the cartel 6 we had the chat and I wasn't going to say it but you brought it up so the thing is is that we can talk about how great the Premier League is but what's happening is we've got Villa who were fantastic you didn't mention and the RB is brilliant as well, by the way.

29:45Villa have been fantastic. Newcastle are getting there. Everton found this a few years ago, I'm sure we'll come on to that, but you get so far, and then the real shape. To go any further, we've got a shell of playing. What's happened, by the way? Why has all of a sudden FFP become a problem for, not just like sort of Everton and Forrest, but Villa, United, you know, every club is looking now at FFP, but all of a sudden, everyone seems to be on the list. Called the independent regulator, Gary. And it is. But everyone seems to be on the limit of FFP. But they've been spending billions for five, six, seven years.

30:18We've just heard Leicester. Leicester have got a points deduction if they come up. Facing two separate points. But what's happened? I mean, seriously, what's happened? I don't... Well, the rules have been there a long time. It's not that the rules have just started. They've never implemented them, though. There's not a chance in the years that they put in, no club has ever failed in that time. And this is my opinion. They've just doctored the accounts, you think? I think it's... I honestly... I honestly think they've looked and they don't want government interference whatsoever. Yeah, so they're trying to stave off the independent regulation.

30:49How do we show our strength? I know it's a bit mad. One of the frustrations Spurs fans had with Daniel Levy was he was talking about this regulation that was coming in at this stage. And he was saying, once this happens, we will be in a strong position. And the first thing we're going, well, that's a boring way to approach it. Wait for regulation. Can't we buy Haaland? Or whatever it might be. and it was like, wait for regulation. So he was talking about this specific time. I don't know what has changed or the rules that might have changed, but there were signs from Daniel Levy that this was going to become a problem for a lot of clubs.

31:19It needs changing because you can't have... Again, this doesn't affect Everton. Well, it does, but I'm talking like Newcastle and Villa. You can't have a situation where these teams are building and making good sides and then going... You know, Newcastle have got... Villa are wealthy as well. They've got money to spend and they're saying you actually can't spend any money because... Yeah, I've always... We've already written the rules. Listen, the rules are there, so if you break them, you're going to get punished. But in terms of football, and I always just keep it really simple, if a guy buys a football club and it's his business and his club, why can't he spend what he wants to do as long as it doesn't put the football club in trouble?

31:57In terms of going into administration or, you know... In the handbook, it's mentioned eight times. I've been doing this for five months now and I shouldn't have to. they should be thinking of RxG and players and that, but there's a 346-page Premier League handbook and it's mentioned eight times PSR across that. And it's never, ever once mentioned in conjunction with Sporting Advantage. To be fair, I mean, it's something that I've been... I've been speaking about for a long time in terms of sort of like owner funding and the rules around owner funding. So I take your point. I don't disagree with the principle that it's your business you'll be able to put money in as long as you've got that money and you're proof of funds so that you don't go bust.

32:34But the problem with that is If you speak to, say, a Steve Parrish at Palace, he'll say, OK, that's great, Gary. I get your point because we're up against the Saudi Arabian government. We're up against the Abu Dhabi government. They've got trillions of pounds. They could literally just go and do whatever they wanted and it would literally just become a disgrace of a league. People suggest it's become a disgrace of a league anyway because of City winning it three and four times. I do think that's related to Pep and I know you do as well. Once Pep goes, I think it'll balance off a little bit. It's just an absolute freak of a manager.

33:05but I do think there needs to be some controls. I don't know what it is. And the only control that I've ever been able to come to is that I think every club in the Premier League should be able to spend up to the level and amount of the top revenue generating clubs. If that top revenue generating club is probably, well, it's Manchester City, but I'm going to say it's Manchester United naturally. It's Manchester City, 730 million. It's not, we know it's not. So Manchester United, more often than not, will be the top revenue generating club in the league. and let's say that's 600 million, the other owners, I think, should be able to fund a spend.

33:40So let's say United's wage bill's 350 million because their bill, their revenue's 650 or whatever. Other clubs should be able to spend up to that level of income so they can compete with Manchester United. But the owner would have to put the money in up front so that they know that they basically can't just run away and say, leave the club bus. Isn't the danger though, and it is, and there's no way round it, I don't think we've had a wage cap or something, is the danger that the six are already too far though? So we're sitting on the... But what it means, Baz, I always say this Abu Dhabi how did they pick Manchester City all those years ago why didn't they pick Everton as an example who at the time were a bigger club I always say if you Abu Dhabi come into City to Everton so you could get another owner coming into your club with money that could spend that level he had one he's spent absolutely off the scale we'll have to chat on Everton in a minute don't worry I've got it and these are facts Jay by the way if Qatar had come I've spent massive money.

34:36Hang on. Sorry, Gary. Hang on. Net spend FC here, by the way. Back me up. Are these not net spend FC? Hang on. This is the same Everton. When the Premier League started, you were part of the Big Six or the Big Five. You were voting Sky In and Sky Sports and the Premier League and all that. So everyone just votes for what they are at the time. Bill Kenwright voted for these rules that you're now arguing against at the start of the period when these rules came in 10 years because it suited Everton. Because Everton didn't have any money. I'm not disagreeing. No, I know. My point is, everyone just changes their arguments, whatever situation they're in.

35:08Well, of course, because if you were outside the top six, you'd be changing. Yeah, but what I'm saying is, you moan about the top six all the time. Well, that's right. But when you were in the top five, it was fine. You were fine leaving everyone behind. No, but I'm not sure about everything there. We were talking about Villa and Newcastle. We're saying they've got to a stage. And I've said, I don't like the rules where you get to a certain stage and then you can't actually push on. You've got to sell a player. People are talking about Villa or Newcastle having to sell a player now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

35:31To kick on. If you speak to the Premier League owners, some of the more sensible ones, they say that what you would do is, how they say it should happen is that if a new owner came in and wanted to invest a billion, because you can invest in infrastructure and stadiums, so you could build, Crystal Palace could have a 50 ,000-seater stadium, they've currently got a 20 ,000-seater stadium, they'd have an extra 15, 20, 30 million euro revenue because their ticket sales would go up. So he says that clubs should generate revenues that basically then make you be able to spend more. But I do think if you want to try and punch up, like Newcastle obviously do with their ownership.

36:04Newcastle, in my opinion, should be able to spend the same money as Manchester City and Manchester United and Arsenal and Liverpool because their own funding model should be able to allow them to. There at the moment, Newcastle United, and I think this is wrong, can never get, I don't think, naturally, and now the rules are tightening around you, you can never get naturally up to the levels of Manchester United or Manchester City because how are you going to get there? You have to rebuild your whole stadium and get to£100 ,000 and then your revenues, it's just mad. So I do think the rules need changing.

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37:13Have we got this far on the overlap and not spoken about Man United? Adam, come on. Is that what it is? Man United are irrelevant. I think the season's over for us, isn't it? Hearing about Villa fans and Tottenham fans talking about a battle for Champions League. Manchester United aren't getting Champions League football this season. I think that's gone. FA Cup probably gone in a few weeks, if we don't turn up at Old Trafford. So then you're looking at a season which left really just for Ten Hag to prove whether he's the man or not to take us through next season. Do you think he is? You know, when I go through the list of potential managers that could come in, I don't feel very infused by it.

37:48I go Nagelsmann, Tuchel, maybe they're worthy of an interview, but I don't feel how I felt when Ten Hag was available and you go and just go and get him. so part of me kind of feels like he deserves a chance with the new structure there but you just start to feel have we gone too far down the line of things not working bad results 12 defeats in the league this season it's horrible when you look at it like that you know when you talk about the new structure obviously you know a lot more about it than me but this new structure is basically taking power away from the guy you're talking about staying with the new structure I would call it supporting him rather than taking power away from him I'd call it He's basically been able to do what he wants, as I think a lot of Manchester United managers have been.

38:30That's the problem. We didn't have anyone to step in and go, £80 million in Anthony, I'm not sure that's the right deal to be making. Or someone to step into those positions. Even with De Gea, we should have known we were replacing De Gea three, four years ago. Inanna signing, while I think he's kind of started to improve in the league, it was one day where we kind of went, who's the best keeper in Europe at the moment? I was doing well in the Champions League, let's buy him. It was never a signing that was planned. Yeah, but wasn't he again another player the manager knew? Didn't he work with him?

38:57Exactly. So you need to take that power away from a manager. So many signings have been decided by a manager. We chop and change manager. So then when the next manager comes in, you go, well, these players aren't suited to him. There's about four different managers, players there. We have to change all of them again. We need to have a little bit more of a philosophy and a style and a structure. I get exactly what you've just said there, where you're constantly changing and the club are having to spend money. But for the actual manager who's there at that time, to be able to buy the players you want, no matter what they cost, and it still be out, poor it's been this season, that's a massive...

39:30So you're actually saying we should keep him with a different structure. He's probably not going to get what he wants. Because what you're implementing then is longevity, where you say, if we do change the manager, okay, we've got a philosophy. But for that individual manager then, you're saying he'd be better with a different structure, but he's actually being able to buy... I'm not about just my personal feelings, it's giving him a chance. I do feel Ineos coming in, especially with the amount of changes they've made, when you look at they're going from top to bottom and just bringing in new players, there's new roles appearing at the club every day.

39:57I think they will eventually get to that position where they're looking at the manager and going, we need to bring in our guy, someone that fits in with what we want to do. But again, it's like Graham Potter. I'm not sure about that one. Thomas Souza, I'm not sure about that one either. How many games has he won in the last two, three months? But he has an identity, right? and that's what the mash was so did Ten Hag until we drilled it out of him I think we've damaged we've damaged so many managers Adam I'm mentioning you saying that because I'm absolutely bemused bewildered as to how we can't play football under Ten Hag I can't believe it because obviously you see his football that he's played when he's been at a previous club and he's coming at United and the football he actually resorted last week at City when you look back on the game to what Oli did I think at Tottenham when he just sat back and played Oli played 5-3-2 but he just went back, right, I'm just going to get a result.

40:49He tried to get a result by any means last weekend. Why can't he? How have we damaged Ten Hag? I get it. I probably know the answers, but why have we damaged Ten Hag? Why can't he get a tune out of the football? I think part of it is, look, I think you have to put responsibility on him. I think there's been a lot of games where we've had enough, despite injuries and despite all those different problems the club has, where he should have got a result. And you have to blame him for tactical decisions, substitutions, etc. And the style of play, there is no style of play like what have we been doing on the training.

41:18That's the bit I don't get. I think it personally comes down to just injuries and that inability to get momentum going. And then you look at the transfer issues that we've had over the years. There's still a lot we need to do. Like we're still relying on Lindelof and stuff. Like Lindelof was an issue two, three managers ago. I don't think he's a major issue, but I'm just, Luke Shaw's injured every other week. Like we're still relying on players that were issues a few managers ago. So I started to feel a little bit more sympathy for him. When you go through the team and you're like, well, Casemiro, we bought him a year ago.

41:48He already looks like we need to get rid of him. You look around the team and there's one or two players you could argue shouldn't be. What would he have to do to stay for you? With games, you know. No, but I mean from now to the end of the season. You know what's a strange one? I felt, I'm normally at Old Trafford. So when I'm at Old Trafford and I'm in the Stretford and everyone around me singing, it feels like, oh, it's a good atmosphere this. But I remember, I watched a game on the TV. I can't remember what game it was but I remember thinking this is flat and you can hear it more on the television and I remember thinking if you're the Ineos guys and you're stood in the crowd and these like ain't up for it here they're not they're not against the manager but they're also not believing in what's going on at the minute and I think that goes across to the team I think that's spread around the crowd and I think they will start the more defeats happen I think the problem they've got is is that you said before about the list of names I don't think it is a time where obviously Liverpool are looking for a manager Barcelona and Bayern Munich all three of the biggest clubs in Europe are currently probably got people speaking to agents setting up deals or meetings and Manchester United they're in that position where they're probably not sure with the manager do we or don't we and you could get left behind so it's I think you've got to make a decision really quickly you've got to make a decision really quickly I don't get the impression though that like Jim Ratcliffe or Dave Brailsford or Dan Ashwood are the type of people that won't be doing their jobs now in terms of planning and seeing what's available for a new manager.

43:11I'm not saying they've made the decision. I can't believe they wouldn't now be sounding out and looking and thinking what happens. I think for me, for Tan Haag, when you say what's critical, I always remember two games under David Moyes and under Oli where it was City and Liverpool. We've got Liverpool at home twice in the space of, I think, three weeks. I think those games can either be your friend or they could be your massive enemy because you know what it's like. If you're losing at home against Liverpool, away at Liverpool is bad, but you've only got a couple of thousand United fans in the corner.

43:40You've got 73 ,000 United fans in that stadium against Liverpool twice. And if Liverpool come and do us in the Cup with 7 ,000 probably fans there because you get a lot more allocation, I do think those games are defined. I think we beat Liverpool in the Cup. The atmosphere will be electric if we beat Liverpool in the Cup. It'll be amazing. And then I think that obviously if we do all right in the league against Liverpool, I'm not saying we will. It's a big ask this. I think they are games that would then potentially give us that impetus to the rest of the season and we'll give Ten Hag a bit of lift.

44:10I think if we lose against Liverpool twice, I think you can imagine the atmosphere and what it's going to be like. I mean, the season's over with a month to go and I just think that could be really, as you say, it could be dead and I think that could be really bad in terms of just perception and just feeling. I think he is on trial for his job now between now and then of the season. Oh, he is. That's it. But obviously, I'm an optimist and I like to be optimistic every year. I think we're going to win the league and I do have some sense of optimism and with the direction these guys are going in.

44:40Look, it's things they should be doing. Yeah, it's kind of like that Chris Rock stand-up bit about getting praise for stuff you're supposed to do. Like, they're supposed to do this stuff anyway. But just them going and meeting people. Yeah, that's their job. But them going to meet the staff and say, look, we just want to win games and trying to change the direction of the club. And whether Ten Hag's the manager that maybe came in too early to benefit from those changes or not, I don't know. But it does feel like, especially with they're just bringing in all these new roles and trying to change things with the football club, move towards a direction of let's focus on winning, it does fill me with a little bit of optimism, but I fear that Ten Hag's probably not going to benefit from it.

45:16I have to just say that, to finish, you obviously want Ten Hag to stay. Do you think he will stay? Do you think they'll keep him or let him go? I think we'll have a new man next season, unfortunately. Unfortunately. I like him, you know. I liked him last season as well. I think he deserves a lot more credit for what he did last season. And I think we always have to go backwards to go forwards. And not that every manager is the same, but there's other managers that have kind of failed before they've succeeded. And for Manchester United to get where we want to, I think we've got to go through the painful process of getting rid of a lot of different players that maybe some of them we like or whatever, but you have to get rid of some of these players and move on.

45:55And when you go from the back, I don't want to do it because we'll be here all week, but when you go from the back to the front, we need a player in every position. That's not happening in one transfer window. so we're going to have to be patient as well what's going to happen is that at 10-hour great sack by United Liverpool appoint him and he'll win the league for Liverpool

46:19right we've got Harry from the Traitors here Chelsea fan so we're going to talk about a team who are massively underachieving I was going to say can we skip that bit talk to us about Chelsea I mean it's an absolute mess talk to us about Traitors well done by the way first. I mean, yeah, there's not really much to say, is there, when it comes to Chelsea, but it's just like you said to yourself, it's just like I'm an optimistic Chelsea-biased fan, just as anyone else, but I think the difference is with me, is like, I just believe in the club, and I believe they're building something, and the pressure the players are, it's so hard to just put a hundred million cap on each player, and say, play here, and then they've got millions of fans that aren't even Chelsea fans, that put them under this pressure to perform in one season, and they've just cracked and that's all it is, is the pressure that they've cracked under.

47:05But I know being there and speaking to some of them, they love the club and they're building something. So I'm just trusting that. Who loves the club? Sorry, who loves the club out of those players just as interesting? Yeah, so I spoke to Colwell. I know he was saying, obviously someone like Conor Gallagher as well and I love him too. Probably one of the few men in this world I'd kiss because the way he's playing now, it's such a dark time. And the way he's sort of, he's up and down the pitch like a yo-yo and just trying his hardest, basically. That's what it looks like they're doing. and they're just like trying their hardest.

47:33Latisse, what are your thoughts on it? I'm very concerned. Very concerned. Not as optimistic as this fella, do you know? No, because I think like there can't be a pity party around Chelsea. We've spent so much money. Obviously, your tagline of the billion pound bottle jobs went everywhere. It wasn't mine. It was him. Yeah, yeah, Gary's. And it was one of those situations where I agreed, but obviously it's one of those ones where it hurts to hear because it's like, we don't have another billion to go into. What we've bought, we have to get the best out. We have to develop. And that's one of those things where you have to question, like you said, okay, the players, they might really want to do their best, but there's a lack of balance in the recruitment.

48:12When we talk about that billion spend, we can talk about, obviously, the money spent on the midfielders, but there's been so much players that have come in that they don't even play in the squad. You've got, like, Washington and Datra Fafana, who's on loan at Burnley, and Angelo at Strasbourg. This multi-club model we've almost tried to mimic Manchester City who are way further on down the line in their ownership then these guys just coming in and trying to almost do too much too quickly and I look at it and I think to myself these players they don't have any leadership around them there's nobody to hang your hat on even a Thiago Silva is coming up to age 40 now the manager as well sometimes is a deer in the headlights because he comes in and obviously he has that I want to win in England I want to prove people wrong in terms of sealing the deal in cup finals and then the way that we lose that cup final, I think it was just an indictment of everything we've done wrong up until this point.

48:59What did you feel about Pochettino after that game? A lot of Chelsea fans wanted them gone. The Chelsea fans have been chatting for Mourinho, I think, away at Brentford. I wanted Pochettino in because of the predicament we've found ourselves in with all these young players. I've seen his work at Tottenham, Southampton, developing young players, improving them. And I thought, if there's anyone with Premier League experience, plus developing young players, and actually getting you to a good points tally in the Premier League, it's him. He's been there and he's been able to do that. He's not going to get off so over the line, Premier League, Champions League, wins like that, but we're not there yet, so that's not a problem.

49:28But I think the message, I think when you're going through dark times at a football club and the fans are not on board and there's no need to trust the ownership or the directors, they've not done anything yet, they don't have the credit in the bank. The manager's words weigh very heavy and I think he's said some things where it's almost like Chelsea fans, don't look at the Roman Abramovich era, we're not there anymore. It's like, you're not really in touch because we're not trying to say that we should be winning Premier Leagues or we should be winning Champions League. We should be even in the Champions League in terms of top four with this young squad that haven't proven anything.

50:03But we shouldn't be 11th. We shouldn't be behind, you know, Wolves. We shouldn't be one point ahead of Fulham, who lost Mitrovic. Everybody's got their own context. When we talk about Chelsea's injuries, 100%, it's been very difficult to find rhythm, to find chemistry, to find connections within that squad. But at the same time, we shouldn't be in mid-table. I think there's got to be a line drawn where it's like, This is embarrassing. Do they know what... Honestly, from the outside, I think it's been mad at Chelsea in the last 18 months. Do they know what they're doing, the owners, in terms of running a football club?

50:34I'm just a Chelsea fan, so I hope so. That's why, yes. I mean, I'm the same as you, so I hope they know how to do their job. But again, I mean, I'm just speaking from a Chelsea fan's point of view and it's like, our players are so young as well. We've got Cole Palmer, who's only 21 years old. He's younger than me. he's already won it at Man City but like imagine him in all of these contracts as well eight years long so it's like a team that I say a baby team that's in nesting that's going to hopefully hibernate soon and like in the next few years there'll be a world-class side and just like you said it's like you go for a dark time but that's the time that you need the most support and then as soon as it starts falling down around you you need the fans especially to be the ones to stand there and be like I'm still a Chelsea fan it's going to work out something's going to click and it's going to happen because then as soon as you start falling down around it, then the whole club goes tits up, which is kind of happening at the minute.

51:25So it's like, yeah, I'll stand here and say, like, happily, I think it's just a bad time for us, but we'll be back. I have to disagree personally because I feel like we don't know these owners. We just don't know them and we don't know their intentions with our football club. You know, you look at the ambitions of Aston Villa. They signed players, even Diaby, who's got a CV, got experience, you know, a catalogue of work in Germany to say, right, he's going to come in and deliver. And they've got that competition with Bayley. Every time I look at our... We've brought a World Cup win in a midfield for 100 million.

51:55We have, but that was when the amortisation rules were there to kind of spread it over eight, nine years. Now that the Premier League and the UEFA have come in and said, no more of that, it'll be very interesting. What do you think they are trying to do with your football club if they're not trying to show ambition? They've spent a billion pounds. So I think the money obviously placed in is fantastic, but it's where it's spent and it's... Why is it a rule where we have to have only under-23s? Why is it a rule where we can't seem to bring in any experience? When we started with Todd Bowie, the face of who's no longer really running it on a day-to-day.

52:25He's been quietly shifting. He's been moved to the side. We were interested in Ronaldo and you're thinking, commercially, is that the reason? Is that why you want him? We went in for Aubameyang, Sterling and we had Tuchel. They sacked Tuchel and they took out a proven winner who had just gone through sanctions, had gone to two cup finals in a row and had won a Champions League. And of course now his stocks are very low. People don't really fly the Tuchel flag anymore. But that guy had done incredible work for the football club. And instead of hiring a director of football, you know how important they are.

52:56You've got Tiki at City. You've got Edwards along with Klopp. Our directors that have come in from Brighton, they haven't got the experience at the top level to say, we know what we're doing at this level to bring the expectations, to bring the success back to Chelsea. The manager in Graham Potter comes in. Again, it's an experiment. We don't know what's going to happen. And my fear is with Chelsea is that they're almost trying to be ahead of the curve on everything. And there's nobody to say, yeah, I know exactly what we need to do. And these are the steps that we need to take. And it just feels like constantly excuses and briefings.

53:27And I think we've hired someone that was doing commercials for Manchester United recently. And I'm just thinking this is this is turning into a little bit of a drama and it's turning into a little bit of a just a PR exercise. Every time something goes wrong in a result, there's a briefing, a report. We're going to sign Ossiman. No, we're not. We're not even in the top four. We're not going to have that money. And then when we talk about financially, where are Chelsea going after spending this money? If we had won the Carabao Cup, which obviously we didn't, people were questioning, will we be able to participate in the conference league?

53:56I don't know. I'm not an accountant. I dropped out of that course in uni. Do you know what I mean? I'm a content creator. Of course you're on now. I'm not on no course, but there's so much uncertainty. I don't know how I can just be calm and just say, yeah, anything goes because we don't know what's going to happen. Are you calm at the moment with Tavern at Newcastle? Looks like your director of football is moving on. There's talk about you can't spend money. Hasn't been as good as last season. Where are you at right now at Newcastle? I think last season was just so special in the grand scheme of how long we'd been suffering.

54:30I know that's very subjective in terms of suffering. There's more clubs who've suffered as badly, if not worse, than us. but I just feel like I'm kind of, I'm calm but I also understand maybe Newcastle fans who aren't necessarily calm as well. I can kind of see both sides of it at the minute. If we get some form of European football this year considering the injuries that we've had, I know we're not the only team but we've had significant, I think we've lost the most number of days of injuries this season. The Tenale situation which we did not expect that to happen either. I think if we get European football, even Conference League, I will see that personally, for me, as progress, that's European football two seasons in a row, which we would never have expected that.

55:17But then kind of, obviously what Adam was saying with Man United, their season's over if you go out to the FA Cup in the next week or so. We're the same as us, no, because I'm laughing because it could be the same as us. And we've obviously got Manchester City, which is going to be exciting. So, yeah, if we go out of that and then we're just literally fighting to get European football, that's going to be a struggle. So we'll see how the club and Eddie Howe navigate that, really. What's happened this season is it brought back a little bit of reality about how tough it would be to one day knock Liverpool or Manchester City or Arsenal right now out the way in terms of challenge.

55:52I think when the money came in because of the Reels FFP, I always thought at some stage it wouldn't be as easy as basically what maybe Chelsea had originally or Manchester City did where the Reels were in a stringent for years to be successful want to be constantly in the top four yeah i'm on board with everything that everyone says like why in any other business in life well i don't know every single business but you can and someone who owns a business can put their money in to extend that business to expand it to get the revenue in football you cannot do that if you are obviously certain clubs if you certain owners and things like that so i do think it's unfair i do understand the cap i understand why ffp is there I understand the premise of FFP, but I do think, obviously, it's a little bit unfair, because as you say, it's going to be so difficult for us now to get back to where we were last season, because, obviously, last season there was a lot of different factors that subjected in, like Liverpool weren't at their best, Tottenham weren't at their best and things like that, so we kind of capitalised on that, but you can't do that every season, and if we can't move forward without having to sell players that we used to get to that point, then it's going to be really, really tough for us to do that.

57:02So I just think last season we were all up a height and we were all like, yes, we're going to win everything like a league title next year. Which football fans are, isn't it? Yeah, but that's how football fans are, really. Will Eddie stay beyond the summer? Is he under pressure from the fan base? Is he under pressure from the owners, you think? I don't think he's under pressure from the fan base. I think we're just kind of, because, as I say, where we were, we're kind of just sailing. We're happy where this is progress to us. I think, obviously, if we go out of the FA Cup and if we do finish outside, maybe if we finish 9th, 10th, then I think there will be certain sections of the fan base who may be looking at the future and looking beyond that.

57:39But I think at the minute he's fine and he has proved that he's still, amidst all of the negatives that I've got on this season, I still think he's doing a really good job.

57:54The manager who has gone is Roy Hodgson, Daniel. Neil, you were probably having a poor season, hence why you made the change. Was that the right decision in the end? I think so. You look at the first spell that he had with us, it came to a very amicable end. It wasn't ideal the way he went out, but I think everyone knew it was the right time. When he came back at the back end of last season, it was a stabilising effect for everybody and it meant that we stayed as a Premier League club. But I don't think anyone across the fan base really expected the club to give him another year. I think really the signal that it sent to the fan base as a collective was that we were treading water for an entire campaign.

58:30And whilst I understand it from a financial point of view, you've got Zaha leaving, you know, you want a steady hand at the wheel. I don't think you can necessarily do that for a full 12 months and keep all the fan base on board because you do want to see not necessarily tangible progress in terms of victories and points on the board, but you want to see a direction. and bringing back a manager that age shouldn't be a defining factor but it has to come into the conversation with Roy someone that had left already who was already the oldest manager in the Premier League when he did go to get him back for another year it just felt like the definition of standing still and obviously things have changed now we've got Oliver Glasner in and hopefully that works out very well for us in the short term Are you the fan I speak to on Twitter?

59:09Yes He's my Crystal Palace man on Twitter we exchange views I just said the voice then Yeah, that's me Yeah, so anything I say in Crystal Palace has gone from that man. How are you doing? OK? Yeah, good, yeah. What are we thinking in the first couple of games then with the new fella in? I'm obviously... New system, isn't it? I'm hugely optimistic because, I mean, I was saying before we recorded to someone else, you know, to get a manager that's won a Europa League a couple of years ago in a club like Palace, we have to be realistic about our place in the division. To get him to come to a relegation battle at this exact point is, you know, a real coup for us.

59:43Obviously you can't guarantee that it's going to work, but we've gone to a back three. Even though against Spurs last week, people said it was like Roy Hodgson light. But I certainly saw positives in the sense of the way that we were approaching things. I just think that fitness is a huge part of it because he wants to play a very high-pressing style. He wants people to get in opposition faces and get forward as much as possible. And that's not going to be an overnight thing. We've got a huge game coming up against Luton. We managed to get three points against Burnley. and I'm very optimistic that if we get a full pre-season under him, then we may well be in a very good position at the start of the next campaign.

1:00:16Jamie, Luton, he threw you in there about coming up. That's a big game. It's also a big game for you as well, the position that you find yourselves in. How would he die? I mean, when I say would he, I mean, can Luton almost enjoy a relegation fight because it was so unexpected that you'd maybe even be in this fight towards the end of the season? I think it's safe to say that we've exceeded all expectations from externally to Luton, but I think internally, I think we were exactly where we thought we would be. I think we would be in a dogfight, but still in it with five, ten games to go. And ironically, probably a bit frustrated that we have left points out there this season.

1:00:50Villa last weekend came back to 2-2 and then just a mistake at the back post. Liverpool last minute, Arsenal last minute. There's been lots of points that we've left out there. So frustratingly, I think we probably should be in a better position up the table. We've got three games this week now. Palace on Saturday then Bournemouth midweek and Forest next Saturday which are huge games and then the fixture list is kind to us but I'm confident I think we can still do it clearly we don't know what's going to happen with Forest and then Everton sort of second charge but we are right in there and back us We've been talking about City, Liverpool and Arsenal playing each other but you've Everton and Luton have got a game it's at Luton isn't it?

1:01:32Yeah so we've got Everton at home I mean how pivotal do you think that'll be Jamie and then we'll go to you Yeah, so we've got five at home to go with Everton, Brentford, Forest, three huge games. Palace away, Bournemouth at home as well, Fulham at home on the last day. We've got five home games there and you think we'll win all five or win four and you're probably there because you'll be on 32, 35 points and that's enough. So I think we'll win those home games and we'll be OK, but clearly we know how tough this league is and Everton will be fighting, Brentford will be fighting and Forest won next Saturday as well How worried are you about that game they beat you twice at Goodison in the FA Cup and the league I mean is that a game that you look at yourself thinking in the running in terms of staying in the division Yeah obviously it's May isn't it that one Everton have got to win the home games won three all season next time we play Goodison to April we've won three games and without the points deduction we'd be 12th so obviously that's made a huge impact and there's another charge coming up When's that coming, Baz?

1:02:37I think Forrest have got theirs And the expectation is Forrest will get whacked with a big one What's classed as a big one now? Six, seven points, they're saying I don't know if that's... Would Forrest not just get what... Obviously you's been the president Will they not just get what you got? Six and see? It'll be six and then show up This is from Forrest people I have no clue I'm not a lawyer or whatever But because of the spend It's purely on players they're saying it could be worse but I have no idea I actually find it scandalous I don't know Forest shouldn't be losing any points I think points deductions is nonsense I think Asterix all over Premier League is making a vote I've said this to you it's basically a Covid season when you start putting Asterix in for a I've never seen What was the Asterix season or the Covid season?

1:03:20Covid one we weren't there were we? Go back and watch the games I've never thought if we'd already won the league honestly I didn't want to let it go No I'm not I'm saying even the next season was rubbish you go back and look Baz what would you say the deterrent should be for clubs that breach financial rules and basically don't play to the same rules. If you think about it, teams that have got clubs that have gone down that have lost that 100 million quid and clubs that have stayed up, Everton as example, what would you say the right punishment is when Everton have been... Do you know what I mean?

1:03:50I'm not saying that you should be punished six points. What do you think the punishment should be? I want to come on to that just very quickly because I love your stick with football but I'm disappointed with the pair of you when you've had David Ornstein on because neither of you put on... I know your view, but it's wrong. No, it is. And I'll tell you why, because it isn't about players. So David Ornstein, when he was on your show, was very good. But he brought up... Because he said what you think. He brought up... No, no, he brought up an argument that Everton sold Luca Dean to Aston Villa for£27 million.

1:04:20They shouldn't have spent any money. They should have just used X, Y or Z out of the under-18s. The big thing he was missing there was, and you'll know this when you own a football club, is that it means sell a player. So Everton sold Luka Dean for£27 million. That went in on the balance sheet. They then bought Michelenko and Patterson. But only£6 million went out. Because obviously they're paying that over, as Chelsea will contest, over a number of years. So Everton actually made£21 million. So what he said on your show was if they'd have banked it, they wouldn't have reached. Which is wrong.

1:04:48Because obviously, if Everton go down that season, because they haven't got a left-back, they lose, what,£60 million, is it? £70 million? They killed us. And, you know, in terms of our charge... The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com.

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1:05:58and five million is that so when you keep talking about net spend and what you buy and what you sell your wage bill's in that as well no one ever mentions the wage bill we sat on this in 2021 and you said they're the worst run club in the country and I agreed with you if you're sitting here telling me they've been run poorly I'll shut up right now because I'm not going to say no we haven't but there is mitigation with us I feel with us right it's that yeah the pandemic affected everyone but we've got the CEO of the Premier League saying he couldn't do his job properly because of the pandemic. But yeah, the bomb narrowed the way for Everton.

1:06:32And Everton's Covid losses were like 50 or 100 million more than everybody else. Right, okay, but the Premier League... Considering you haven't got the biggest stadium, you don't bring that much commercial stuff in. No, I'm being totally honest. No, I know. You're not like a United or a Liverpool bringing commercial revenue. What you're missing there, though, is the Premier League wrote that off. So when Burnley moaned and Leicester moaned, Leicester ironically moaned, and they're getting done, Forrest, them two were moaning about it. The Premier League said, no case to answer until the independent regulator come along.

1:07:05But Everton's case, we had a war which lost£30 million a year in sponsorship. And we're building a stadium. Now, I don't know about you. You've watched a lot of football and played. I've never seen a stadium pop up at the back post and everyone in. So, I believe there should be mitigation in terms of... I thought the stadium, I thought the new stadium spend was excluded from... No, for two years, which they agreed. Now, tell me this. You build an extension, I'm your builder and we agree that you can put something down and halfway through I changed the rules. Surely you'd be, if there's a four-year project.

1:07:34That's what I can't... What was this sponsorship as well? Just going back to it, what was it? USM 30 million. I was going back to it. That wasn't for naming rights on the stadium, was it? They paid 30 million for naming... Listen to this sponsorship, this is hilarious, this one. What was the 30 million for? They paid 30 million a season for training ground and for Goodison and for training kit. Yeah, and what was the 30 million they could get? It was the first dibs on the naming rights. They were going to sponsor USM for 10 years. It was a fiddle. You know it was a fiddle. They were going to sponsor it for 10 years.

1:08:02Sorry, Gary, what were you saying? Going back to it, though, I know it's obviously something that makes... I know it's sore for Everton fans at this moment in time. I've got some sympathy, but what should the deterrent be for breach of financial rules where clubs are doing it properly and some clubs aren't doing it properly? So for me, it should be either squad reduction, so 20 players. So if you've got a squad of 25, you've got to do something with five players. I mean, you know, Forrester would be knackered because they've got 43, haven't they? But you'd have to choose that. Or a transfer ban.

1:08:33Hit them where it is. We had the La Liga president two weeks ago saying, what happened to Everton would never have happened there. The squad of 20 I don't get, because I mean, City probably work with a squad of probably 20 anyway, that it wouldn't harm clubs that much. Put it a bit more then, so you've got to have academy. Transfer embargo for what? For a season or for... Depending on the... Hang on, isn't the same thing what you're saying is, Transfer embargo Do your own transfer embargo Don't buy the players With the money that you had And put you over 105 million Back on the Premier League They okayed signing So there's a nonsense going around That have been given to their The analysts to put out that They said don't sign him And they did Everton just went ahead It's utter nonsense It's absolute nonsense And I've got that from Everton No, no, no But whatever I know The league do have to register players to sign.

1:09:26When we got Delhi. Everton and the Premier League were working together. I get that. Because the Premier League, obviously, I don't think the Premier League really, if you're from outside the Premier League and you've got Man City on 115 charges, you've been docked 10 points, I think the 6th. For us now, it's not actually a great look for the league. I think if we're watching this and it's Serie A or it's the Italian League and we see this every five or six years, we all look at that league and think, something's not right. So this thing about, the Premier League want to get you and I understand the independent regulator thing in terms of trying to show a bit of strength I agree with that but the reason the Premier League are probably working with you is because I don't believe they actually want to they're almost saying come on make sure this does almost like let's work together don't let them register a player then that's my point I actually think the Premier League should have been tough they should have again I've got no issue they'd have said at the start of the stadium build you'd have kicked off if they'd have said don't buy a player you've just said about Michael Elk it's their rules it's their rules I'm saying to you if they'd have said at the start of a stadium build you can't put you can't whatever the interest whatever doesn't count you either do it for the four years it's building or you don't do it at all personally I don't think clubs should run to 105 million but there's only three clubs that posted a profit everyone plays instead of playing it to naught everyone plays to 105 million no business should be losing 105 million so I'm not arguing with you What I'm saying is it's a four-year reporting period.

1:10:57Everton went over by 19.5 million of what you'd allowed, which is still a joke, by the way, losing 5 million a year. But 19.5 million, five, trying to compete in the Premier League, trying to build a stadium, losing sponsorship. But looking at Villa, I mean, Villa now, Villa have lost 120 million this year. I don't know what your losses were or profit last year, to be fair, but you must be now, like, just that alone, because you can only lose 105 in three, so you're obviously 120 in one. You probably lost money last year. I know United can't spend much money this summer unless they sell. They can't.

1:11:29They're rich. And isn't Chelsea a hundred million profits as well, for someone saying? It's not just a hundred million in sales, it's a hundred million in profits. So that's why Conor Gallagher is one who'd look, because he's pure profit, isn't he? So it's just, to me, every club seems to be sort of on the edge of it. Yeah, I think it's going to be a mess, that, in April, if you get more points and great for you. Well, I think we will. I think we'll get three. Because I think what they'll say is, we've done you for... and that's the line I think I think you'll get two we've been done well three or two I think Forrest may get six that's what they might say but see even that if it was in the rule book we'd all go yeah I wouldn't even be set here arguing if you went there or is there mate you know if you breached it yeah but the whole point the whole point of that the whole point of it not being a rule was a deterrent because if you look at it and go oh we'll only get three points for that or we'll only get four points for that what happens now then Jake so Van Villa right so just let's say for argument's sake they go with six points if you breached it six points He's about Maston Villa.

1:12:24And go, I've got to swear, we're like in the champs so you get Champions League. We're in the Champions League. I'm not selling Oli Watkins. I'll take six points. We'll just have to make sure we make them six points up. Why would you sell them? Yeah, so I mean, when our accounts came out, it was basically, the thing I looked at is, are we okay with that PSI? And it was like, we're okay. So going into next season, like you say, potentially we may have to sell a player. We're probably looking at maybe like Jacob Ramsey, who's an academy player that will get the pure profit on him and that's not right is it?

1:12:58No it's not right It's an academy player who's but City that's what City have been doing it for years obviously I mean the reality of it is now Chelsea are selling Connor Gallagher you're selling Jacob Ramsey United are selling Rashford they're actually now clubs are literally now selling academy players just to purely comply with FFP or sustainability it's mad We'll do it with Brantwight it's not a chance of use even a million They're in and wheel get. They haven't spent the money on the player. It can only be 100 % profit if it comes from the academy. We understand why they sell the academy players.

1:13:33It's just finances. The point is, the rules mean that the first person you're going to sell is an academy. The whole point is you don't want to be forced to sell an academy player. It's Scholls-Sham Cannon. The alternative is it encourages clubs to produce better academy products because it has a financial incentive to do so. That's better for football But it doesn't But then you've got Clubs like Chelsea Who are selling Connor Gallagher Who are one of their best players I'm not saying you would I'm just saying that If there is If they're financially More viable than Bayern And that's the problem With the system That's what we're saying It's financially more viable To sell it for FFP or PSR But that can't be right So you're investing In development of the players Because you know Down the line They're going to be Financial But the rules The rules like Gary said They're there to keep you If you look at the rule book It actually says though PSR is there just to protect the financial position of the football club not to do with like sport and stuff the big problem I have with that is if you're a championship club or a league two club or a league one club and you produce players to raise funds to keep your club sustainable I get it but if you're a top club Chelsea Manchester United Aston Villa and having to sell their city and having to sell their academy players to fuel this what would be it's wrong yeah but it's only wrong because they're now in a situation where they have to do that.

1:14:50It's their own financial... It's literally what we're doing. Literally what we're doing. I'm missing the point. It's about 200 million quid on two midfield players, but they have to sell Conor Gallagher. What he's saying is it's because of the club's mismanagement in the first place, which is right. But it's wrong that they're incentivising the sale of the academy. It's beneficial to the club to sell a homegrown player. It's almost like an unlevel playing field. If you're a homegrown player compared to someone who they've brought in and cost money, this guy is going to get moved on quicker. Yeah, when that's his club.

1:15:20You think of Connor Gallagher now. Yeah. That's his club, that's where he's come through. No, I get it. And he's the one who's actually going to be sold or maybe moved on because of the rules. In Chelsea's situation, if it was happening at Spurs at the moment, we wouldn't be forced to sell that academy player. But they spent... They went and bought... No, no, no. I don't understand the words. No, no, no. OK. I understand what you're saying and that. They've got themselves into that position in the first place. That's the big problem. Yeah, I totally get that. But the solution can't be easier. My point is, the academy player can't be the solution to that problem.

1:15:53It's got to be an unequal footing with everybody else in that squad. I get they need to sell someone. I get that. But it shouldn't be. I know they put themselves in it. Oh, my God. Jamie, I wasn't going to say that. I don't understand. We'll just stay on Chelsea. Chelsea last summer, they go. Not only did they obviously have bought Enzo before that, but they go and buy Casado. And then they go through Ego. just go and buy Lavia on the last day of the transfer window for 54 million quid. But then they have to sell Conor Gallagher like two times. Because they didn't need Lavia. I mean, he's not even played a game for him anyway.

1:16:25I don't understand what's so frustrating about what I'm saying. Flavia, you're missing the point, though. Am I? What we're saying is it shouldn't be that... It's a shame. Yeah, it shouldn't be that we're in this position where... It's wrong. Conor Gallagher has to get raised off and installed. It needs to change. Yeah, but how do you change something? But it needs to change. There's no way. Because there's no money being invested in the player. You can't change it. It has to be this way. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. What are you saying? It's not right that an academy player is the one that...

1:16:49It may not be right. It fixes the book straight away rather than... What we're saying is, as a strategy, there's something that feels wrong about it when you actually are, basically, to fuel a football club, you're having to produce players just to sell them and they can never play for your club properly because actually you need to get the money in from... That's what we're saying. That as a strategy, a tactic, it just doesn't feel like... Football's going in the wrong direction if that's the way in which we think it... If the top six clubs are having to sell their academy talents, if Manchester United have to sell their academy talents this summer, I would say that is, to be fair, the worst thing that I would ever possibly see at United, to see their young players produce for the first team to be sold to fund the shit they brought in.

1:17:30That's the issue. Especially if you don't want to sell that player. We know that at the top, but the solution can't be that. What's the alternative, though? How do we predict it? I'm talking about academy players. I completely agree with you, but my point is, as Flav said, you look at the business model of it, it makes sense on an economics basis. But what's the alternative? If you're going to force people to profit and loss, then obviously an academy player is 100 % profit. If you're incentivising profit above everything else, then that's the bottom line, realistically. Unless there's an alternative that works, I'm not sure...

1:18:03The alternative can only be what you said before, which has changed that anyway. Because if clubs are trying to do the right thing, And everyone should, and you're right about the running from Everton's perspective, but Everton's wages has gone down, Everton's amortisation has gone down, Everton's squad has gone, the squad they had in 21, player-wise to what it is now, is decimated, which is, people go, why are Everton in relegation? And they weren't, we'll go and have a look at what's happening. So they're moving towards it, but the only way as a balance for a league, I think, is to do what you say.

1:18:33I don't know if I've ever explained this, I don't know if you know, there are four different sustainability rules in every league in England. So League 2, League 1, Championship and Premier League. Premier League is three years,£105 million. Championship, I think you can lose a maximum of£13 million a season. It might be£50 million, but it's£13 or£15 million a season. That's the Championship rule. Completely different than the Premier League. League 1, the owners have to put a business plan at the start of the season. And if there's a shortfall and there's a loss, they have to put a letter of support in to say that they can basically get them in.

1:19:03League 2, so what happens at League 2, because obviously I haven't been in League 2 quite a few years now, unfortunately. So you have to put a business plan at the start of the season. Let's say we're£2 million, because they look at your revenue from the year before, they look at the commitment of players that you're going to buy this season, and they say, right, okay, you've got a shortfall, a loss here, that's£2 million. We have to put that cash in up front. Is that why you're looking for new investors? It doesn't matter, because in League One and Championship, you still have to put the cash in eventually.

1:19:29But in League One too, you have to put the cash in up front. That's okay. Right? If you put that cash in, then you go and spend more money on players. they stop you registering a player. They stop you registering a player because you're breaching basically the sustainability rules. League 2 is the best operated league, in my opinion, in the whole of the football league system because it actually prevents owners going and spending more money than the cash that they've put in to cover their losses. Every other league's got a different set of rules. In League 1, it's unbelievable. So the whole of the football sort of sustainability rules should be similar principles.

1:20:04Would you do that in the Premier League then? So if it was whatever, You need 200 million for your club to survive this season. You have to be able to. So I went along at the beginning with the owners should be able to spend what they want. But I had a session for about two, I wrote a book a couple of years ago, and I had a session with Steve Parrish for about four hours in his office. And he, to be fair, made me change my mind. Andy Holt did some work on it from Harkin. Andy Holt believes that your revenue, you should only ever be able to spend 60 % of your revenue on players and you shouldn't be able to lose money.

1:20:32That clubs should be sustainable. That's what he believes. Steve Parrish said that if you allow complete freedom of spending how do I Steve Parrish as a football club ever compete with Abu Dhabi or Saudi Arabia when they've got trillions of pounds you talk about states not billionaires trillionaires who could literally just go and do whatever they wanted so he said there has to be a cap so I bought into that cap idea and I just came up with that route that if Man United are the best generating revenue club that clubs can always go up to that level so at least you can go parity That was how I got to where I got to a couple of years ago.

1:21:06But it needs changing now. The rules do need changing at Premier League level. Because I agree, you should be able to spend more money if you want to, if you're in Everton or in Newcastle wanting to chase the dream. But on the other hand, you should have to put that cash in, I think, up front. Yeah, to provide evidence. The problem with that is that when you sign four-year contracts with, say, players, in League Two, the problem is, I could sign, we could lose£2 million this season and put the£2 million cash in, but we could have committed to spend for next season as well. so you're then trying to work out how you do it for next season.

1:21:33So you'd have to forward think about De Bruyne on a five-year deal. Abu Dhabi would have to commit to that five years of covering his money, you know what I mean, if it was going to create a loss. So it is complex, this, but that's where... Is a regulator going to make any difference to the game? I do believe it would mean that there'd be a greater threat to the system. The Premier League, they've proven they can't govern, in my opinion, English football. Now some will disagree with that They've proven they can't Have proven it Is that to do with Because it's the 20 clubs It's a committee And the committee To be fair You're all on different pages Yeah You know Everton want one thing United want another City want another Arsenal want another Are you surprised with the 14 though The way they haven't Kind of tried to level it a little bit Or are you not surprised In the slightest Because the problem is It's not 14 now though is it It's like Newcastle have joined the 6 And then there's probably You know It doesn't feel like There's a lot of power though For the 14 No that's what I mean But are you No but what I'm saying is When you actually look at things I think Certainly things I've read That You've got Almost feels like the 14 and the 6 And I'm talking about Newcastle becoming Number 7 if you like But The vote in the Premier League Is that 14 and 6 But they only need 7 votes don't they The others What's that They only need 7 votes To stop anything going Yeah they need one more But they can't get it So a lot of the things that Newcastle have started to vote though I think Newcastle have started to vote with the 6 Yeah, yeah.

1:23:00It's because everything's like, every bloomin' vote that's happened in the last few, the last 12 months has been like Newcastle related party sponsors and things. Everyone thinks everyone's against their club. Just a non-football question. Who watched the Traitors?

1:23:18Harry, how's it been since you won the Traitors? Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, it's like my feet haven't touched the ground yet, and then I'm getting to do things like this on a Thursday? It's Thursday today, isn't it? I don't even know what that is. It's been a mad mum. I think it won't take it next week. Yeah. Yeah, but it's crazy. There's nothing else I can really say. I've been so lucky to have the flip of life, 360, because I love life way more, as much as I did before, but even more because of how different it is. 180, you want the flip. 360 with the pushback. Oh, same.

1:23:50180, 180. Fucking Scousers, honestly. OK, brilliant. Well, listen, that is the fan debate. We've really enjoyed it. It's our first one back. Make sure you tune in for round two.