The Worst Fanbase In Football & The Next Big Rule Change! | The Overlap

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2:02But Gary, as an owner, wouldn't you have an obligation to look at it? If there's a£2 million fee for Salford to go and play, you'd have to, right? The league game's away. Yeah, anything. No, we wouldn't do that. We would. I've been overruled. Which club's fan base thinks they are bigger than they actually are? Tottenham. Two cents. Two cents. My eyes went funny. Nicky bought Tuckert's throw in. And I saw about three balls coming at me. I was getting a middle one. I'd have looked over, nannies in full tears, crying, and then the scouse could come out, and I'd have gone up to him and went, he's crying.

2:40Where are we going with this spat? It's not a spat. It's not a spat. It's far from a spat. I just couldn't believe the front of him. I genuinely couldn't. He only won two Premier Leagues. It wasn't like he won six or seven like yourself. We've always put him as six or seven. What did you win? Eleven. Oh.

3:00Which club's fan base Thinks they are bigger Than they actually are Tottenham Chelsea 100 % Tottenham That is Tottenham It is Chelsea That is Tottenham All over Was it 90 ,000 That attended your Champions League 90 ,000 that was it Because we win it all the time With multiple wins We had 90 ,000 plans Is everyone agreeing It is one of these No I'd say I think it could be Newcastle Yeah good answer Champions League games you still need to sell out well that's just not true is it for starters well it is there was like genuine like there's genuine pictures that someone put on Twitter right that's it that's that one done it's only a few in every game you look at the parades and stuff and things like that they're not like a massive club well I don't really care like City say you are you can say it we'll 1-0 Greg there's nothing I can say or do I don't think any City fan out there they'll all be with me you should say they don't care we don't care you can call us what you want and we'll just win it's fine it's a rough ride on this every time he's here he's just abused around he does have shit it's not his thing it's a team I didn't pick City mate I was born to and that's probably the thing everyone picks a team don't they you're talking about actual numbers in fact but the question is isn't it who thinks they're bigger than they actually are Tottenham being in the big six is wild isn't it you know when we do like the big six as hateful as it it was, the Super League.

4:25Tottenham had some front being in that. At that point, it was two League Cups since 1991. And they called themselves a big club. It's great-granddad saw him win the double. That's what it is. It's great-granddad saw him win the double. I think it's Chelsea. I saw an Arsenal fan. I think it must have popped up on my phone. Someone from Arsenal TV. And he made the point that the scenes we saw when Tottenham won the Europa League and on the streets, you'd never see that with Chelsea. And his point was that Tottenham, that showed historically that Tottenham were a bigger club. Absolutely. Is that fair?

4:59No, no, it's not fair at all. Just to put it in context, they went, you know, the best part of two decades without silverware and that's what we saw. When we went, when I was young, we went 25 years without a trophy. In 1994, we played Manchester United in the FA Cup final. We lost 4-0. We had 50 ,000 at the parade for losing. We lost the final and we had a parade. We went ahead and we had a parade. We were like you. We hadn't won anything. United did a parade round. What was on the bus? Judging it by the parade numbers. Right, I'm going to make an executive decision here, right? Put your hands up if you think it's Tottenham.

5:40Put your hands up if you think it's Chelsea. What are you doing? Right.

5:51Chelsea are the fan base who think they're bigger than they actually are brilliant okay

6:03if you could pick one concern about modern football and what lies ahead over the next decade what would you pick? oh what do you see the problem that's coming I would remove all the cliff edges that exist within the game in respect to financial distribution and sustainability and salary capping and sort of an amalgamation of managing costs, distributing revenue further and getting that sort of what would be, rather than getting this, which is what you get from, say, the top six to the other 14. And then you've got these sort of what would be massive cliff edge from the Premier League to the Championship.

6:38And then you've got within the Championship the parachute clubs, the non-parachute clubs. And then you've got Championship to League One. They're huge, huge cliff edges that exist within the game, which create distress. They create panic. people chasing the sort of golden ticket and I would remove that desperation that exists within the game and create some form of management of costs which is difficult because the biggest cost is player costs and the last time that League 2 and League 1 clubs voted for capping costs the PFA overruled that league through legal sort of dispute things which they always would do because I've been a player myself so for me I'd remove all those cliffhangers And if we did that, I think we'd have a game that wouldn't constantly be talked about football matches for money.

7:24You've got to get in the Champions League. You must get parachute pimps. You must get this. It never used to be like that. And I'm not saying we should go back to the 80s. But I'm saying that there should be a way in which it's just smooth all the way through to the bottom. Scolese, have you got any worries about the game right now? I fooled after that, to be fair. I should have went to Scolese first.

7:47I have no idea what he just said. Cliff edges that was all I got He just won't He just won't a pint He just won't a pint from the five He wants a pint from the five quid I think ticket price is a good one and fans obviously clearly not happy with that especially being at our club Adam probably a lot of tourists at clubs as well No I'm not saying it's a bad thing but no they shouldn't be taking over as much as they are I remember I think it's a great point I was at a City game I think it was two years City, Real Madrid just as I got invited by a City fan friend I do have a couple of them and after the game I was a little bit worried about walking outside I thought this could get a bit tasty this might be a bit lively I'm a Man United player walked out honestly there was no You wanted punching didn't you?

8:40Punch me, go on I wanted a bit of needle but there was no It's like there's nobody from Manchester there Was it the 4-3 game like two years ago or was it a 4-0 one? I think it was a 4-0 one City Hammond just atmosphere seemed to be a bit quiet and I'm hoping the local fans aren't being priced out of it because they know these lot are coming over and they'll pay probably a lot of money to go and watch them type of game

9:11What rule in football would you change? I love the idea and I don't know what everybody thinks but I love the idea I don't like how they're going to deal with it, but I do like the idea of the goalkeeper, eight seconds and give a corner. I don't like that after three seconds, five, it's going to look terrible. I think referees will be a bit slower with the count. I think that's not ridiculous. I do think it needs improving because goalkeepers are taking 22 seconds at some taking of kicks. But the other two things I always wanted, and I hope that they bring in, because football is always about entertainment, having as much playing time as possible.

9:54I think when I first got in the Champions League, it was only 40-something minutes a game. 90-minute game, 40-something minutes. So you're losing 40-something minutes in time-wasting and absorbing time, delays, whatever. The two things I would really want is the referee to have the power instead of giving a yellow card for a player who's taking too long to throw in because I explained, and it happened to me, I used to laugh. plays what they do walk up the line with the ball knowing that the referee is going to send them back so that's another 15 seconds cha-ching he gets back and he goes oh ref is it from here yeah it happens watch and then he gets the ball and he delays he delays he delays he delays and if he's not on four yellow cards what's he going to do he'll take the yellow card knowing by the time the referee runs over bing with the yellow card he then gets out his big book he writes his number in he puts his book away he puts it in his pocket He gets back into position.

10:48What does the player do? Another 10 seconds. He throws the ball in. So we've wasted another 30, 40 seconds. He's won. The player's won. The power should be. The power should be. The referee should just reverse the decision. So if I say to Paul, Paul, get the ball in. And he's laughing at us. And I know what he's doing. I know his tactic. And he doesn't get the ball in. The opposite way. And if you're defending, you're not going to, you're not wanting to give the ball back, would you? So let's change and give the referee the power to bring to reverse the throw-ins. And the other one is, which irritates us, is the goalkeeper corner.

11:19Players now are just trotting over for a corner. And the referee's scared to give him a yellow card for time-wasting. So if they don't go quick enough and you warn them and you say, take the corner now or I'm going to reverse it and give a goal kick, what will the player do? He's going to run over and get the ball in quicker. And the opposite way of the goalkeeper, if he's taking too long at a goal kick, bring the goal kick in and if he doesn't do it, then you just give a corner. all you're doing is you're not saying you're going to use it because players know that you've got the power to do it at the moment they know the way around the law by just delaying the throwing

12:01I remember the first time you played against us you come on as a sub for Everton I think I was playing full back at the time I think the game finished nil-nil but you came on and hit the bar at the Anfield Road and Chris Kirkland it was in goal he took my hip out I went through one on one Kirkland come out and honestly after the game I couldn't walk but it happened with him as well so I've gone through Kirkland whacked me he took me out and then at Anfield I'm thinking there's no way I can stay on the floor got up finished the game and I couldn't walk but then he caught me as well it was a straight red card it wasn't was it given I've looked down I've got blood pouring all down my leg so I've got up I'm trying to carry on and the referees stop the game and the physios come on and he's like listen you've got a big gash you need to get it stitched up you need to come off so I went in to the dressing room so then I was in there about five minutes and then Scolzi's walked in so we'd been sent off so I'm in there the doctor's stitching me up and then halfway through stitching me up we had a we had a row so we think fuck we're either 1-0 down or we've nicked her at the end she had ten men so we've gone out so I've gone out with my leg half stitched up blood pouring down and then it was when John O'Shea scored last minute Steve Hinnons fault he's done a feud he's done Nanny that was a bad one as well oh yeah he said to me he's crying he's crying I went home Nanny's on the floor it was a bad tackle to be fair it was a red card should have been and then he talks away of it by being made to the refs and stuff and then I've gone up to...

13:43I've looked over, nannies in full tears, crying. Then the scouts get me come out, and I've gone up to him and went, fuck it, at least crying.

13:53Niamh,

14:00let's go to you first, because I believe you've got a hot take to kick us off. Yep. Although I don't think it's a hot take, I think this is certain now. The all-time Premier League XI right-wing position, is now Mo Salah. Do we all agree? Gareth does. What formation, though? Is it like a 4-3-3 or 4-4-2? We on FIFA, what's going on? No, I think you could just put him on that right-hand side on either or of it, yeah. Because who are the... Cristiano Ronaldo, 7-0-8, the Ballon d 'Or season. What about Beckham? Probably, then you've got David Beckham. I wouldn't say... I'd say the way that he gets in over Ronaldo is just the fact that this is his eighth season of that relentless consistency, and the output as well.

14:47His output's better than Beckham's, and he also played in whatever way Liverpool needed him to play. But the output's going to be better for a player that's in a front three, rather than being in a traditional 4-4-2 where they've got to track back, they've got to go forward. So it's a different role, isn't it? But then you could also say that in Salah's defence, you could say he's had to play quite far out wide in a lot of those seasons to suit the team. He's had to drop deep to pick up the ball for Liverpool a lot of the times that they play. So just because he's a right-winger on paper, he's not necessarily played that far.

15:18Salah's responsibility is to score goals, whereas David Beckham's responsibility was to create goals. I mean, Salah's five assists away from David Beckham, so he can also create goals too. And he was also creating so many opportunities for Darwin Nunes in the last couple of seasons that weren't even put away. I think it's a fair... Mo Salah's incredible, but I would still... That one season of Cristiano Ronaldo, I think David Beckham is amazing, my favourite player of all time. But that one season of Cristiano Ronaldo, 42 goals, Ballon d 'Or, Champions League, Premier League. I think if I was going to do an XI, it'd be Cristiano Ronaldo on the right.

15:54Salah got 44 in the season. Yeah, I know. He's an amazing player. I like Mo Salah. I think people do overlook him a little bit sometimes in terms of when they're talking about greats. And even when they're talking about, he wasn't even in Ballon d 'Or. It's ridiculous. but I would sway to it. You're just like zoning for something. Do you agree? He's just thinking about when Salah played for them and what might have been.

16:28Anyone else? Galat, have you got a question for me? Yeah, a question for you is just sort of who you found it most difficult against as a striker and then also obviously the longevity of your career, when you played against them once, maybe struggled against them, what did you do for the next time you played them as well? I mean, I always say Thierry Henry, but Thierry Henry was a problem if you were a right-back, not so much as a centre-back as such, really. It was more, and it wasn't just Thierry, it was the whole Arsenal left side that was the big problem. In terms of centre-forward, it's funny because I always say, you mentioned Drogba, so he comes to mind people always say oh Drogba but the best games I ever had for Liverpool were against Drogba you know so it was almost like so it's hard to say oh no I got the better of him because he got the better of me sometimes but I got the better of him sometimes because we played against each other that much I played Chelsea obviously not always against Drogba I played Chelsea 47 times in my career because of all the Champions League games so it felt like you'd be playing four times a season at least sometimes six and it was always that Mourinho Benitez time where all the games finished 0-0 or 1-0 so it wasn't like you were getting taken to the cleaners and it was 3-2 or 3-3 it was like if you made a mistake the game was over that's how strong those teams were defensively so even though I'd probably say Drogba in a way but I still, if I picture myself playing well for Liverpool I'm thinking semi-finals in the Champions League against Drogba and against Chelsea but listen he still does unbelievable I always remember that volley he scored at Stamford Bridge where it's like he just took it on his chest and bang goal and you're a bit like you don't know what else you're supposed to do really in some way so I enjoyed playing against when we had some brilliant battles so I'd probably I'd probably say him yeah What was it like would Rafa pull you in and say okay so today you know in that game there maybe you could have done were you learning every time you played I tell you what the reason I played at the top level was because I had a very very good understanding of the game I was passionate I wasn't I wasn't amazing at anything I wasn't lightning quick I wasn't technically unbelievable I wasn't like a John Terry or a Saul Campbell like really powerful but I had my wits about me and I could understand the game where it needs to be and what it needs to do and you know that type of thing and I wouldn't need someone to tell me how to handle Drogba I knew how to handle Drogba in that even though I was an aggressive player don't be overly aggressive with him because sometimes Drogba could have games where he wasn't there you know but when he was there he was unplayable he was like you know that he'd be like oh whoa whoa don't wind him up don't go into a silly tackle after both days we won you've got to win it but don't be going looking basically don't go looking for trouble with Drogba because he'll give you it talk to him through the game I used to talk to him and it was almost because it almost felt like I was I was his teammate because we played each other that much it's almost like you knew him do you know what I mean so sometimes when you play against one of your own players and because you play against him every day in training, say you play against him international or something, or something, you know what they're going to do a little bit, and they know what you're going to do.

19:40And it was like that a little bit with Drogba. So I used to always go, you know, almost to talk to and chat to and that. But I remember there was one semi-final, he took us to cleaners. We beat them. But it was against Daniel. Daniel had just got into the team about 2007, just taken over Sammy. And he was only 21, wasn't as physically strong as he became. and I think Drogba went on him down that line and was making runs and gave him a tough time and there was a lot of talk about Daniel Agui being dropped for the second leg in the press and he actually got the winner. That got us the penalty. So we lost the first one 1-0 through 1-1.

20:17So I remember, not like I was telling Daniel, not like that, but I remember me and Rafa talking to Daniel about, you know, not letting it get in your head basically and how to keep him, you know, don't speak to him, don't wind him up, stuff like that so it wasn't so much me but I remember that because of how good Rogba was in the first leg what did you say what did you say to him you said you talked to him good money no I mean I'm not saying you're chatting where the game's going but you might have a like say something's happened in the pitch or like a little you might just you're not like you're not like you're not that good no no I'm not winding him up no I'm talking about like yeah you know you're not basically winds him up or looking for trouble or leaving one on him if something come up you've got to have a laugh at a joke or something more or can I have one of his players or someone's fell off you'd go out of your way to make sure he's just like he's smiling if Drogba was smiling and happy in a game you were alright once he turned or something happened it was like I thought he was pretty unplayable so Nemanja Vidic was an incredible centre back so before we played Chelsea for two days before Vido would be in the gym building himself up and trying to you know this is where things were in his head and we used to say to him relax a little bit and then when we'd play Liverpool he'd be out working on his quick feet because Torres running behind so for certain individuals he'd be put next to work and you like it you don't need to you're strong enough but then that was something which that was part of his routine which which he do but I always think the forward do unplayable a forward do run behind Mike Lowen for a two or three period was unplayable and Nelka when he was doing it was unplayable they're the forwards which defenders hate with you know if you're making them run back towards their own goal and running behind that's what Harland does it quite a bit now not as much as it used to be but no one runs in behind anymore wingers you always remember Overmars coming to the ball and spinning players don't do that no more and that's what where the game's different everything's defeating and it's passing back round where before anything in behind would kill defenders and even if it's, you know, the pass isn't great, you're still going competing and you might win a throw-in high up the pitch.

22:37That's the difference now with 10 forwards.

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24:46Right, we're going to bring George in from the Not The Top 20 podcast. Welcome to the show. We're talking a lot about Premier League and your podcast covers the AFL. I mean, the similar sort of arguments and debates we're having here, is that something that we see in the AFL? No one wants to go and watch a League Two game and the men in America, I don't think, so I think we're OK there. I will if we can... Sorry, sorry. Sorry.

25:15Your podcast should be called Fuck the 72. No, not the top 20. Luckily, what I'm saying is we'd have to worry about this because the interest, albeit obviously with Wrexham in particular, there is interest out there for, maybe Wrexham will solve that happen in America one day. But this specific stuff isn't necessarily something that we're worrying about now. But in terms of ticket pricing and the rest of things, it's something that's very common still in the EFL where we see fans, I think we'll talk about it later fans getting frustrated around the ability to get hold of tickets around the price of tickets as well so yeah, and we're not worried at the moment about our leagues being moved abroad even if Gary would like it but yeah What would you say?

25:59Did I say that? But if it was worth sort of 2 million quid He was like just giving Palace a couple of mil wasn't he? Yeah, yeah Oh man, you're nice to get out of here Just give Palace a little bit too He can have two mil. When it's Salford, it's different. But, Gary, as an owner, wouldn't you have an obligation to look at it? If there's a£2 million fee for Salford to go and play, you'd have to, right? The league game's away. Yeah, anything. No, we wouldn't do that. We would. I've been overruled.

26:35Keaton, I want to ask you about something that came up in the Premier League, maybe about 10 years ago now. It's all taking games abroad. But there's something in Serie A now of being approached to hold games abroad in UAE and Australia. Do you think that's a goer? And if it is, is that just opening the floodgates to every other sort of league in Europe? I think it's certainly a goer as far as Serie A is concerned and also La Liga because they don't generate the same amount of money as the Premier League does from the TV deals. I think what the Premier League is doing, it's waiting for somebody else to make that move.

27:11It can't be seen to be having the first mover advantage itself because it knows that there will be a pushback. What we're likely to see is in a couple of years, if this proves to be successful, and it will do, all of these matches will sell out and they will be going for, the base price will be 120, 150 quid a ticket. What you'll then see clubs in the Premier League saying is, well, we don't want to do it, but we need to be competitive with La Liga. We need to be competitive with Serie A. So therefore, we're going to copy what they do. And once you start on that particular route, then it's highest bidder.

27:43So, you know, the matches take place in Uzbekistan, in Afghanistan, in Nairobi, in Manila. It's whoever's going to be paying the most in terms of promoting those. There is already Italian. Is the Catalan Cup already in? Yeah, that's already in. Yeah, Super Cup. So is this a full fixture list or one game from that? It's just, initially, it's just going to be a couple of matches. I think what they ideally they would like to do is to have the Syria weekend taking place in Australia or UAE or Saudi, wherever it's going to be. And then it can be a huge event which will be promoted. And I think that could be very lucrative.

28:21Listen, me and Gary and probably a lot of people here were involved a lot in sort of the Super League situation a few years ago. I just can't get my head around lads who I know who go to watch Liverpool home and away accepting that and these are lads who haven't missed games for like 20 years they never miss a game accepting that their team's playing and they can't go and watch or it's like it breaks their cycle of like not missing a game for so many times I think there'll be absolute uproar in England because I'm sure that's the case with you know right across the board in terms of the Premier League and right through you know the 92 I just I can't imagine our supporters would accept that.

29:01That's why it's not happened to date. But if you take a look at the reaction to Super League from Spanish clubs fans in Italy, it was sort of a shrug. Well, we don't particularly like it, but we're not that fast. I think it was the militancy of the fan base. My point being, I'm just asking people in here now, Adam Flav, do you think there'd be uproar if that happened in England where you'd have a Premier League weekend in America, Weekday 15 is in America And you've watched your team Home and away for sort of 10, 20 years And you can't get to that game I think, I mean yeah there should be I think from certain football clubs there definitely will be Certainly the ones, Liverpool, Man United Probably a little bit more active I think from London clubs There'll be a little bit more of a passive reaction Why is that?

29:48It's just, I mean It's political, it's social dynamic There's lots of reasons why people in London are less born towards activism than the ones in the North West, for sure. But I do think that there will be a lot of fans that look at it and go, well, we don't like it, but it's going to be worth£20 million. I don't agree, mate. Do you not? No, I think... Super League, to be fair, didn't involve Palace and Brighton and everyone else. But the feeling was just as visceral because you're trying to take something away. You know, the reason that we all cared so much is because once you let that genie out of the bottle, it's gone.

30:26You have one weekend, then it's two, then it's three, then it's... You have to stand on that. I guess where it is in the Super League, it was just happening now and something had to be done, whereas this might be more of a drip-fed problem. It'd have to be two games, though, wouldn't it? Because you'd have to have one away and one at home to make it fair for competition times. I'm not saying... You would, wouldn't you? You couldn't just have one... You couldn't take United and Liverpool. United play Liverpool not at Anfield one season. That's a massive advantage to United over other people. So you couldn't do that.

30:57You'd have to make the reverse fixture or something like that exactly the same, wouldn't you, to have it as a fair competition? It'd be the money men making the decision, though. They don't care what the players are managing. I would object enormously to it based on competitive advantage of, say, Liverpool play, don't have to come to Old Trafford, or we don't have to go to Anfield. That's a massive advantage in a season. To not have to play at City is a big advantage.

31:26Well, Rory, does James Madison deserve the opportunity to go on the show, have a one-to-one with you? I mean, where are we going with this spat? It's not a spat. It's not a spat. It's far from a spat. I just couldn't believe the front of him. I genuinely couldn't. Like, to come out off the back of winning that trophy, the club winning that trophy, and to make it all about him, it just baffled me. He had your pants down. And when you think... I mean, I just don't get it. When you think about what James Madison is, when you think about James Madison's career, it boils down to about four talking points, right?

31:58A European final that he didn't play in, made all about himself. An FA Cup win, he won the FA Cup, started on the bench, watched Eosie Perez start, watched Eosie Perez sing Abide With Me. He did get on the pitch that time, though, so fair enough. Totally got rattled by Neil Morpai. The only other person in the world I've seen get rattled by Neil Morpai was Ty from Arsenal Fantasy. And obviously, the most significant of the lot, he had a penalty to keep Leicester in the Premier League. He had a penalty against Jordan Pickford. If he scores that, it's a six-pointer. It could be so different for Leicester today.

32:30And he chips it straight down the middle like a back pass. All that combined, some front end against him. It's so weird that you're so passionate about this. He's a Premier League footballer. Of course I admire him for what he's done. I just don't understand the front. He didn't even play. He didn't play. And he's talking about Roy Keane, a man who famously was embarrassed to lift the champions. You're talking about a light-hearted conversation and making something out of it that just isn't there. I know that's your job, Rory. Is he not a character? I like him. I think he's a big personality. He's a character.

33:02His character thing is nonsense. I totally agree that there is an element of footballers now that has become fairly predictable, fairly robotic and fairly uninspiring, right? That does exist in footballers. And we all hate that. We hate it. I totally hate it. I love a maverick. But you know when you think about characters of a bygone era, like right back, Stan Bowles, George Best, right through to the era where you were playing. Do you know what the characters had? Eric Cantona was a character, but he was also in elite-level football. You can't just be a character. That just makes you the joker of the pack.

33:30You've got to be a character. Oh, come on, he's a good player as well. He's been our best player this season. He has a really, really good game, 1-7. No, no, no. He's a really, really good 1-7. That's why he plays for Tottenham. That's why he plays for Tottenham. That's why he plays for Tottenham. Right, I'm in agreement then. That means, yeah. No, but Rory can't just say mental stuff like that. That isn't true. One is seven. No, he's been our best footballer this season. Yeah, you've got 38 points. I agree. He's done me, isn't he? He's done me, though. Yeah, I just don't get in front of him. So who ordered better, John Terry or James Madison?

34:06John Terry didn't do the interviews on the pitch, did he? Oh, Rory. Good, Rory Keane. That was a good laugh. I don't know if it was. I don't know if it was. Roy enjoyed it. Roy was alright. I'm sure. I'm sure. It's not about the humour in the situation. I just don't understand the humour. I mean, the question James Madison asked you, what is a Chelsea Rory? I'm figuring that out. Who knows?

34:34Remember that game against Blues when you took the bang to the head? Yes, sir. Against Birmingham City. You took a bang to the head and you're... Yeah. You lashed your eyesight and you're out for a big... Big chunk of the season. What was that like, discovering that, not having... Were you proper blind in one eye? No, I did actually take a bump to the end. It was about ten minutes ago. I remember, I think I just looked into one of the floodlights and my eyes went funny and Nicky both took a throw in. And I saw about three balls coming at me. I was just getting a middle one. And anyway, I didn't think anything.

35:06I told the physio and the doctor afterwards. I went to see a specialist the day after. and apparently a blood clot I had a blood clot in my eye that just burst so I just couldn't see and that was the longest I was out I was out for three or four months it was the rest of the season I think yeah three or four months I came back for Royce Testamorio against Celtic just to play half a game to try and get back into it yeah but that was it wasn't even a bump it was a little bit scary what was it like having to go through that because it's almost like I remember Giggs used to have issues with his hamstrings and he just starts doing yoga and kind of but with an eye injury you go blind especially someone that I didn't really go blind it was just a little bit of blurred vision well it was a lot of blurred vision at the time and it would never go see you went blind they'll get more hits on the show when I was going through it all there was a player in Scotland who was blind in one eye he was actually playing so have you still got an issue with it or I think so well it's still there in my eye but they say you just get used to it and it took ages to get used to it but yeah So you played blind?

36:10No. You played in the room blind?

36:14Some of it passes, yeah, you might think so. No, just a little bit of blurred, a lot of blurred vision. It's like having a migraine, I don't know if you've ever had a migraine. It was like that, but for four months, sorry.

36:32Gareth, I know some of the work that you're doing, certainly, not just about Liverpool, but about other fans. In general, can you just explain a little bit more what you're trying to get behind? Yeah, so I'm a member of Spirit of Shankly and then above Spirit of Shankly you've got the Football Supporters Association. So the FSA this season has got a campaign called Stop Exploiting Loyalty. So fans of every Premier League club have been coming together, holding up banners inside the grounds, outside the grounds and just highlighting it with the media as well that it feels like at every turn now our loyalty is being exploited and there are a million and one examples of why Kieran will know them well and he talks about them all the time on his podcast I mean, one I looked up before I came in today look at Bayer Leverkusen, right?

37:20So they're a good team I think everyone would say that they've got a good manager they play good football they won the league last season they're in the Champions League now they got to a European final last season it's£174 for a season to hear it's 80 odd quid for a kid to get in there with a season ticket it's 13 pound to get in for one game you're not getting in liverpool everton man united whatever for that kind of money and so my question is why like i don't understand why the clubs can't realize that they're potentially spoiling a cultural asset of theirs in the cop in the gallagate in the strefford and whatever it might be because slowly but surely as kieran said you're pricing people out and you're getting different people in there and you know I got pelters over the weekend because I took a picture when I was in the Copa weekend off the Anfield Road 47th minute Liverpool scored a goal after people in the Anfield Road went back and everyone was going well that's a corporate area and people are paying 400 and 500 quid for those tickets that you can see there and I'm like ok don't they want to watch the football don't they want to support the team don't they want to sing and shout don't they want to be passionate don't they want to have banners and flags and the answer might be no and that's fine, okay, but in the cop we do.

38:34So don't you want to save the cop? Don't you want to keep the cop? Don't you want that to remain affordable? And I don't know why they can't collectively agree, maybe this is a question for Keir on, can't they collectively agree like they did about away tickets where it's£30, which you mentioned, collectively agree to ring fence general admission and concessions right across the league and just say we won't compete over that anymore. We'll compete over absolutely everything else, corporates, sponsorships, whatever else. Fine. But let's respect our cultural asset and the people that make that a cultural asset and keep it affordable.

39:12McKeel, what do you think about that? I agree entirely. But the finance people will say, you still want to sign that£50 million player. And if we do that, we can't afford it. We're going to break PSR. And PSR has now become the big pantomime villain in football. Is that an easy excuse for clubs? You know the finances better than the actual numbers behind this and what this money will bring in ticket price-wise. I think it was Aston Villa when they had the Champions League ticket about 70, 80 quid and it was this, oh, but we've got to compete with these teams within the Champions League. I just thought that was nonsense.

39:44Is it nonsense? For an individual match, I mean, that was the Villa match against Bayern. I think it was 97 for an individual ticket. If I was a Villa fan who's been supporting the club for the last 30 years, I'd pay it because it's Villa and it's against Bayern. But you're feeling cheated because it's all of the hard work that you've put in when Villa weren't in the top division, when you're going to a Tuesday night match in the championship and you're still supporting your team. I think fans deserve a bit of appreciation. We all saw during COVID that it wasn't football, was it? You were watching a glorified training session and it's the passion of the shed and the cop and so on, which the Premier League have sold really well.

40:28And I think I agree entirely with Gareth. I'm a Brighton fan. We played at Anfield a few weeks ago and we lost. But we lost because of the Kop. It wasn't for the Anfield rosy. It was the noise from the Kop that day. And I've been as an away fan many a time was ferocious. And it makes a difference. And I think you're in danger of throwing that out in the pursuit of more money.

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42:35I didn't think how could anyone do more for Steve, you know, his whole career at the club, what happened in Istanbul, the cup final the year later. But if Salah not keeps going what he's doing this season because he's going to get player of the year, I don't think anyone's won PFA Player of the Year three times and if he wins the Ballon d 'Or as well I'm thinking I hope Stevie's not watching but even though he's my man in football I play with him I wouldn't probably be sitting on this couch if it wasn't for Stevie because I'd probably have no trophies but if someone argued that Salah was Liverpool's number one player if he wins the Ballon d 'Or if he wins another PFA Player of the Year you almost can't argue against it so easy and if you love Steve you grew up watching him yourself you know what I mean the things that he could achieve are just mind blowing I think some of the stats as well I think there was something yesterday where his assists for the season are matching something Dal Gleashed in 84-85 I think and so when you're starting to match that greatness and match greatness of Steven Gerrard as well I mean I think he's going to be talked about forever isn't he he's that kind of player now you know it's one of them where you know Liverpool have already got all kinds of statues and things around on the ground as it is.

43:48They've got to find space for something to mark Mo Salah's career. So hang on, this is the headline for the podcast for the pod now. You want a statue for Mo Salah? Well, maybe a bench. He likes that thing where he sits down, doesn't he? Maybe he should go down. What more would he have to do to get a statue though? I mean, surely. And is it a foregone conclusion that he's the best player the Premier League's ever seen over Henry? Does winning league titles well? Sorry, just before I did, just winning... Sorry. No, no, no. Try to define the best player in Liverpool's history, which to me would still be probably Kenedag Leach.

44:30But because he won the league so many times, and I know Mo Salah is lucky, he's brilliant, he's been an amazing player, and he's an amazing player now, but has he won the league once with them? Yeah. And I know Stevie didn't win the league either, but should that define, that's what I mean, should that be the difference between the best and not the best? I think trophies has to come into it. I do agree on that. But when we talk about Thierry Henry, I don't know if you agree with that as well, Scores, about Thierry Henry. Obviously, you play with some absolutely great players at United. The point about Thierry was he only won two Premier Leagues.

45:03It wasn't like he won six or seven like yourself. We've always put him as right. I think once you've won it once or twice... Six or seven. What did you win? Eleven. Oh! That's true, you know.

45:21Oh my God, this is going to go viral. You know why I said that? Because yesterday on the TV, Royce came up with seven. I just had that in my head, apologies. That one never happened again. But I think once you... That goes to show you, it doesn't matter how many league titles you win, do you know what I mean? You can still be the best around. I think in some ways for Stevie at Liverpool, it wasn't because he never won the league, but it was always a case of he didn't play with those type of players and he still it was almost like a badge of honour which is what I'm saying you could probably say a little bit about Salah being a say no and they went well look it's going to be two this year but again they've had great teams to compete with you think they're the City teams that's why you can't define it I don't think by winning who would you say was the greatest player to play in the Premier League if I'm talking about that I've always had sort of Henri and then Ronaldo probably just behind but I think Salah's going past Ronaldo now and it's a case of Salah ain't ahead of Rooney for me Salah ahead of Rooney he's not ahead of Rooney and I think Cristiano Ronaldo I think yesterday you said it's the best individual season and I thought let me go back and kind of refresh my memory on 0708 Ronaldo he isn't ahead of 0708 Ronaldo for me either I think Ryan Giggs has to come into the I know you might think it's all bad you play the Giggs you might but I saw you do something the other day 20 years you put him as you've done your top five man United players of all time and I saw that, yeah.

46:47Yeah, for what I did, not just the longevity but you've got to be a good player while you're doing that, you know what I mean? He changed from being that winger who's flying past people, the young player who got everyone off their feet and almost got the game and the crowd going and then for the last five years of his career, he was a central midfielder and was brilliant. What did he, how many leagues did he? He was 13, I think. Don't get that wrong. 6-0-7-13 so I think he has to come in that conversation you know we talk about Thierry Henry how many years was Thierry Henry I don't know but winning two league again I find it hard saying you only won two league titles no Champions League with Arsenal anyways it's just I'm stuck in between you know what I mean finding the best players but the best players normally win titles as well it's a difficult one

47:45Just before we finish, we've got a community question of the week from Anna from Hull.

47:58I hope that's in the edit. Right, I don't even know how I'm going to answer this one, or where am I going to start? Which club has the most annoying fans and why? We don't even have to debate that. Arsenal. Arsenal, where are we? Are we all... All agreed? Yeah, all agreed. All agreed. I mean, only from my social media, I'd say Arsenal. But do they have a bigger sort of profile on social media than most clubs, Arsenal? What is it? It's all bad. Flav, I'm not going to ask you, because they're your biggest... You're always going to say Arsenal. Yeah, yeah. Gareth or... Of late Arsenal. Five years ago, if you asked me, I wouldn't have said Arsenal.

48:38I'd have said probably United. United are still annoying, but it's just the Arsenal fans, they haven't won anything and they're like constantly at you, like just constantly nibbling away. So yeah, if they win something, I was like you 10 years ago. Yeah, well, we've had a good 10 years, haven't we? But yeah, no, Arsenal fans are just so annoying. When we got beat in like the 97th minute, 3-2, having gone ahead in the game at the Emirates a couple of seasons ago, after the match, they were so mean. I was so sad, I was crying. You're talking about actually in the stadium. When we went out, they wouldn't let us in any pubs.

49:13I was like, just want a drink to drown my sorrows. No, you can't. So, yeah, I'd go along with that. Man, do you know what it was? As a player going, it was horrible fans with Blackpool.

49:27Honestly, we played Blackpool away a few times. Where's that on the map, by the way?

49:35We got beat by them two years in the same season. they were in the Roy Hodgson years weren't they? Charlie Adam I know they get the rivalry between fans of like you know Liverpool, Everton Spurs, Arsenal but like you know usually your big rivalries who'd you look at it rather than say your rivalries It was Dobby but we'll never play him again No Leicester want to be our rivals but it's not when you're talking about annoying fans and seeing as they're not here either like Brentford talking about their XG and how they recruit players better than anyone else. They've always annoyed me. As a West Brom, but it's brilliant.

50:15Now we're mathematically safe and they're not going to get playoffs. Dragging some of the tweets up and posts up from December when they were saying walls are falling apart, they're going to come down. That was a nice feeling. But again, COVID was the last time we played West Brom other than the FA Cup, so we don't really have any back and forth. Villa are a little bit, but to be fair, they're not too bad. I would agree with the Arsenal shout out to some of their fans. Gareth, who are you going for? I mean, a lot of this is like, it's almost like a social media question, isn't it? And I think, I think there's a, Arsenal do seem to have a fair share of cranks, who like, you know, honestly, all season long, I've just been, like every time I log into like Twitter, X, whatever you call it these days, there seems to be like, you know, in the, in the rage bait section, the for you, you know, at the top, there will be an Arsenal fan somehow doing down what we're doing that week or that month or that.

51:04It's not the real league title or everyone's being crap and that's why you're winning it. And it's always got some bite and some bang. And you're like... And I try to ignore them, but it's dead hard. You know, everything's sort of like schemed to get a reaction out of you now, isn't it? And I'm probably feeding it now by calling them cranks. But as I want to finish on you, I'm expecting what your answer might be. Not you, no. I'd stay off social media now, just don't bother with it, because it's the cause of that. I was having this conversation with what's the name of you was it Greg before before social media didn't mind anyone obviously you had the Liverpool thing didn't you with Everton and obviously everyone did I was youth lab wasn't it now everyone's having shot but West Ham and Newcastle seem to hate Everton and vice versa I'm like where did the Newcastle rivalry come from I don't know I mean fair play we just won a trophy but that's always seemed to have traction and West Ham as well with Everton I don't know whether the Moise Moise IFA I don't know though because it seemed to be I seem to remember when they had Payet because remember they beat us at Goodison and they were everywhere how big they were and I was just thinking we've got Roberto Martinez who doesn't want to defend so no wonder he won the game but I don't know but the Newcastle one mate I don't know whether it comes no no he's a great fella but at that time he didn't want to defend did he we were winning two and he put new man the ass up front instead of no we were down to 10 let it go I'm out of grudges I haven't forgotten You know why?

52:35Because I'm thinking of Rafa Benitez in the ad. Oh, yeah.

52:40Probably them, but I don't get it via listeners. You can find an argument anywhere, can't you? On Twitter if you want one. People say on Twitter, don't they? There's always an argument that ends up talking about Rafa Benitez. Well, there you go. Exactly, so we finished on Rafa anyway. But listen, that is another brilliant episode of The Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet.

53:09We'll be right back.

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