Trent Alexander-Arnold: "I Owe Everything To Klopp."

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0:35So, we hibernated whilst we were building Stick to Football, the main interviews, and we are resuming them again. And it's quite an exciting one. It's with the Liverpool, do I call him right back? I don't think you can call him a right back because he's no ordinary right back. Trent Alexander-Arnold, obviously, one of the most talented defenders I think you'll see in the game. I can't make any higher compliment for him than saying, this is David Beckham, Kevin De Bruyne playing at full-back. Am I here? You don't see full-backs playing football like you see him. Ever. I walked out at Old Trafford and it was the biggest...

1:20I couldn't believe it. I genuinely... Obviously, when we're coming out, there's boos and that, and I'm like, I've never experienced that, because I haven't been booed before. But I was like, oh... I was like, it's never-ending. You're just like that. When we go to Anfield, it's exactly the opposite. There's no space there. There's no room there. You literally would take a touch, and you just have to deliver it down the line, or else you're just getting absolutely smashed. You don't have the same problem with me, do you? No, no, but you know what I hate about United? When you come off the pitch and it slumps down.

1:50That's dangerous, that. That's dangerous, that. A little nudge down there. Yeah, the nudges. I always think when you're speaking to a current player, it's always a little bit more reserved, rightly so. because they're a current player who have obligations to the club. I'm not looking for any glorified headline out of Trent Alexander-Arnold that I want one and he won't look to give me one. What I'm looking to talk to him about is the position, his challenges on and off the pitch, being at a big club, the demands of being an academy player at a big club. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it, really looking forward to it.

2:24Do you play darts a lot? No. So this dartboard will be just put up for us?

2:31Has Jurgen Klopp got that sort of fear factor? Yeah, he has, has he? Yeah. There's been times when I've needed a ball of hood, and there's times when, like, I've not needed it, and I've kind of needed a little bit of love and guidance, and he's been there for me. He wants us to be the hardest team to beat. Every team fears, thinking, to beat this team, we have to do something very special. You're going to be sat on the edge of your own box, low block. Yeah, low... Playing like me.

3:00Talk to you about Jurgen Klopp and the influence as a mentor, coach, boss that he's had on you. Incredible, really. I think I owe everything to him, really. As a player, I think, I was thinking about this recently, the only thing you can ever ask for as a young player is opportunity. All you can do is just hope that when you get to 18, 19, you've got a manager that's willing to give you a chance. and I was fortunate enough to have that. And not only that, he put his arm around me and guided me through it, through the ups and downs, the winning of stuff, losing things, good games, bad games. Your first bad game is you think you're never going to kick a ball again.

3:45You know, you think I'm done. Does he shout at you, at the players? Does he shout at you when you're a young player? Has he had the ballerkin at half-time? the good thing is he knows when a Bollockan's needed and when a little bit of love's needed and I think that's very important to be able to see who needs it and when they need it but yeah, there's been times when I've needed a Bollockan and there's times when I've not needed it and I can need a little bit of love and guidance and he's been there for me and he's someone I can go into his office and even if it's not football related, go and speak to him and vent and get off my chest is always there always encourages the lads to go into his office um and speak and give them answers and be honest about about decisions really that's all you want as well yeah if you're gonna go and ask questions you need a gaffer's gonna be honest yeah is it i mean i i had a manager that was a massive respect for like huge mentor but you would you could go and knock on his door you could go but you would do that as a last resort because you just you know there's still that element of almost like, almost like your dad when you're younger, a bit of fear factor.

4:54Has Jürgen Klopp got that sort of fear factor? Yeah, he has, has he? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's not like a fear, as in like he's scared to be around him. It's just like... Presence. Yeah, he's got that presence and that like aura about him that is one of, if not the best manager on the planet. And he's shown that. So when you're a young player or even come first into the team, you're kind of on your toes around them thinking how's he reacting this that and the other how can i get in his good books and that and um yeah i'm just yeah i've written to him really to be honest what was it like that morning when he came in and said i want to sit down with you all weird because we never have a meeting at that time never so what time was the meeting normally we normally get in for like 10 half 10 and then we'll have a meeting at like 12 just before we go to train um and then when we get in he we have a meeting at half 10 the first time it's the first time i've ever had a meeting half 10 he's like everyone changes everyone's in there and then he's just in and like you can just see the lads all looking around like what's what's going on and then he just said look it's i just wants to let you know it's breaking now so we're broke at the same time and like just kind of done not done done but I can tell this is it really he kind of knew that I think another season would be too much but he has enough and the time to get us to the end of the season and that's something he always taught us and that's something that I've adopted as a player now is you take it season by season no matter what what goes on no matter what situation you're in or whatever no point you're stressing about the next season because that's completely different you focus on the season you focus, you put everything into it, and then the next season you go and try and do it again, but up until then, you squeeze every last drop out of it, and that's, again, probably something that, there's so many lessons he's taught me, but that's probably one of the biggest ones, is, he doesn't want us, like he'll say to us, he doesn't want us to be the best team in the world, doesn't want us to play the best football in the world, he wants us to be the hardest team to beat, that every team fears, thinking to beat this team, we have to do something very special.

7:10And not even like a footballing sense, but how much we want to win. It's something the mentality is instilled in us. Even now, the young players that come through, you can see it within two, three sessions of just being around them. And we're used to it because we get the same message. I've had the same messages kind of every day for seven years now. So I'm kind of immune to it. and it's just built in built in then I do I have that mentality and I do things that way and seeing new players coming in and young players coming through you can see within two three days how I did it like the intensity levels the aggression levels the desire just the impact on them straight away like the intensity in them is just like running around like dogs just trying to win the ball off anyone not scared of anyone tackling them however they want and putting enough footing in that.

8:04You've probably not even had time to think about sort of like what next season looks like because you've got so much to think about this season but does it scare you a little bit, the idea of a new voice, one that you've not heard before? I'd probably say I'm like sat on the fence, because I think it'll be a completely different situation and it's like it's going to be weird to then to turn up to pre-season or whatever and have to adopt new playing style whereas without anything getting said to me I know all the manager wants me to play and I turn up first day pre-season I know I'm to jump there I'm to press I'm to do this now it's like my next pre-season is going to be a completely different message you're going to be sat on the edge of your own box low block playing like me low block don't go past the halfway line

9:05it's going to be strange but I think I like the idea of it'll be a new challenge for the team for the club for the players do you think it's partly on you to make this transition work as much as it is for a new manager because it's going to be tough for a new manager to come in and replace that giant of a figure that's been there isn't it I think the way I look at it is of course the manager is going to come in and change the way you play and will it'll be a different kind of culture and different different messages but as players that the the mentality to win and the eagerness to win and not the pressure but kind of yeah the internal pressure within on ourselves and the demand to to win things and to to be in a title race next season no matter who who the manager is that's what we expect from ourselves of course results might not go our way or whatever but as long as that mentality is there not that it doesn't matter who the manager is but as long as the dressing room has got that desire that we're going to win we're trying to win things it's not a transition season the manager comes in and within his style of play is that winning mentality then that's how the transition needs to happen You're in a three horse title race with City and Arsenal I'm not going to ask you about the other two teams because they'll do what they'll do but what gives you confidence that Liverpool can be the title winner at the end of the season?

10:32Just because you've been on this journey before. I think experience is a massive part of it. I think obviously the other two teams will have experience from last season. They had their own title race within themselves. Does the manager leave them the passion and the emotion around Liverpool and what it's going to be like, does that give you that edge, do you think? I think he will feed into that the further it goes. like let's say we get into May to start to make him and it's still that tight then he'll start to feed into how it's going to how it could look how it could feel up until then it's like we just need to try and stay yeah he never says we're trying to win the league we're going to win the league no he doesn't say he knows that no dude no he doesn't speak about doesn't really speak about it it's more we're going to get the most out of ourselves we're going to squeeze every drop of potential there will be twists and turns no matter what I'm sure all three teams will try and win and we'll come close to kind of winning every single game they play now there will be twists and turns and we just hope that we're in in in the best position no i mean you win in the champions league was the best moment is there a competition between you both there was there was we haven't we haven't done it in years now i've just recognized i think i'd be brilliant for you because i could definitely go into midfield and give it away for him

11:56Right, we've got this little game. So you're going to throw a dart at the board. If it's an odd number, you get a football question. If it's an even number, you get a non-football question. Okay. If you didn't make it as a football player, what would you have been? I'm very interested in, like, the mental side of the thing, so I would say, like, sports psychology. Good. Away we go. One more. You've got it, Ailes. 13. You want your football questions, don't you? Yeah, it's not easy questions, though. The best moment you've ever had in your career? It's a simple one. Winning the Champions League.

12:30Wasn't my best moment. No, I was your one. No, I mean, you winning the Champions League wasn't my best moment. Oh! Go on, next one. Biggest phobia? What are you scared of? Cats, maybe? Cats? Yeah. You've got pets. I have a dog. I have a dog, but cats are just a different kind of... We'll move on, we'll not offend the cat lovers.

12:5517, odd. Best friend in football? I would say club. Robbo. International's probably Jude. He's been unbelievable, Andy Robbs, hasn't he? Oh, my God. Is there a competition between you both on assists? There was. There was. We haven't done it in years now, but there was for about two or three years. Still unbeaten, isn't he? Still unbeaten, isn't he? but I always say it's a lot of quality, the assist as well. He can pass to someone here, you'll turn with one top in or take on four players, score, and he'll claim the assist. Honestly, I'll play a 60-yard pass, get the assist, and they'll be like, yeah, that's a proper assist.

13:35He'll play a little short pass. So the quality of your assist is a lot better. Yeah, it's all quality, not quality. Right, next one. 12. Three dream guests to have round for dinner? I'd say... Stevie G, Zidane, and... probably Renato, I would say. Who's the hell out? Yeah, I'd love to pick his bris. As you can tell, I just like talking. I love putting. Can't stop. Next start, we're on again. Two. If you could time travel, which football area do you want to play in? late 2000s, I would say. Yeah, I loved that era. Like, Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez, you had Lampard, Drogba. You had, like, Fabregas with Van Persie, you had Gerard Torres.

14:26Like, each team had their super... Like, that was just incredible. And then I loved, like, probably the 9-11 Barca team. I would have loved to have... We didn't love it. No, I know you guys. They were beating us up. But I think that era was... That's the one that I grew up watching. And I was like 10 to 15 at that time. And I was like, that's what really dragged me into football, man. What were you, Osme? I always think now, in some ways, I'm trying to travel forward. I just... Every team when I watch the full-backs, it started to mesmerise me and think, how would I have even survived? I say this, how would I have even survived today?

15:14Not just watching you, forget you're a freak with the way you pass the ball, but watching Porro at Spurs going to midfield and doing what he does, and a doggie, you see obviously what Stones is doing at the moment, City playing in midfield, then Kyle's having to tuck in, but then get back out again. My job was really simple. If my left back went forward, I took him round. If I go forward, he's tucking round. if it's on my side I'm going out there and getting to the ball comes in to me I've got a pass there to my right winger I've got a pass into my striker I've got a pass to my centre-rumped field player and I've got a pass to my centre-back and that's what I'm doing, I'm serving 15 yards, I might hit a ball into my striker that's my game, my game's quite sort of methodical and what you're being asked to do now on the ball and the positions you've been asked to take up it's like degrees of difficulty here compared to the degrees of difficulty of how I was asked to play the game.

16:09So I would think I'd love to just be here now. Yeah, just to see what it was like. You'd like to see me here now, as well just to see yourself. I think everyone would like to see you now. So you're going, you won't be coming off anymore. Every right back wishes you were playing right now. Because if I look at you, I think, I can't even relate to it, the game, what you've been asked to do. How do you know when to be in there? When you're going forward as a team, you're sometimes coming into that right central midfield, do you make that decision when to be there or when to be out wide to be able, how is that is that just a feeling or an instinct or is it something that's like a design?

16:44Both really, so I think the the outline of it is like we work on it like the shell, it's then within that you have freedom, so it's like okay so we're always going to have four in the middle of the pitch at any given time so you always have to four in there Whether it's the midfield three and the nine comes in and makes that four, or a full-back comes in and makes that four, we're always going to have that. And then it's identifying where and when that is. Yeah. Maybe we're on the centre mids or drop back into the back three, back into the back line. That means people have got to get in there.

17:20And then it does that. It doesn't matter who it is. So it's actually what's in midfield. Yeah, it's just like seeing it and then going, okay, well, he's gone there, so I need to go there. And it's not relating to, say, Mo's position. Well, Mo comes in to our point, where if it's switching out, we need someone that's always wired. So sometimes I might be wired, Mo will be inside. So Mo's inside, you might go there. Yeah, or it might be the right midfielder that goes out there. It might be Harvey or Dom who goes out there, and then I come in and do their job in there. It's just really flexible. And the four that go in there, that's obviously to keep possession of the ball.

17:53Is that also to prevent counter-attack going back the other way? Yeah, so it's kind of like the... Well, our whole game is based on counter-press. so the way that we get told to play is it's good up there to risk the ball because at times not that we're told to lose it but it's not a bad thing to lose it because they then open their shape up they start to think let's counter attack we win it back quick and that's when we kill them so it might not always be like the Man City way where they ticky tacky and they break you down that's not no one can really do it like them ours is more we'll try I'll probably risk it might lose it but they'll then expand trying to get at us our six wins it back and then we're a 5v5 at the back and then we're gone I've just recognised I think I'd be brilliant for Jurgen Klopp because I could definitely go into midfield and give it away for him I could definitely go into midfield give it away and then you're all counter-pressing it'd be amazing the messaging is at first you would find it very strange because the messaging is he doesn't care who goes.

19:00Yeah. Doesn't care. I can go and press the centre. Like, if we lose it... You just jump, basically. You go. It does not matter. That's the way you play. Like, you don't think about your position at that point. It's the people behind it that... They've got to adjust. They've got to adjust. Yeah. And it's, like, probably the two sixes that... OK, well, he's gone there. Yeah. He's got, like... So, say, I've gone. So Trent's gone. So it's either Endo or Ibu or Kwanzaa, whoever's kind of on that right side, to then fill in. if my wing is cheating a little bit. I've seen you with your winger and you've jumped past your winger and I'm watching thinking, where the fuck is he going?

19:38He's jumped. And I'm thinking, has he been told to jump there or has he just basically sort of felt that there's a jump on? And it'll get played over you at the odd time. We were never told to jump. If you've got a winger here... That's your man. And there's a man in there, that is the least sort of danger. the idea of jumping there and let's say he flicks it on past you or he just nips it around the corner no I would never come out of my hole it's just a completely different way of thinking I mean it's unbelievable and I recognise that in the last couple of years that you obviously have been told to jump past your wing I mean it's obvious sometimes and then obviously Canati will come across or Matip will come across yeah so our messaging is we you play against the ball not the man yeah so wherever the ball is So, let's say a goal kick or their centre-back's got the ball, I should be in between the winger and the full-back.

20:34Yeah. And the centre-back should be in between the striker and the winger. So, if it goes over me, I can get back in. If it goes there, I'm gone and everyone's around. Like, the back four should be on, like, a rope. Yeah, yeah. He goes... Like you said, when your full-back, the other full-back went forward, you're back into it. It's that, but just probably a bit more aggressive. but you struggle at first oh my the first probably two three months of it or pre-season especially you've never seen anything like it is he just like a sort of animal all around the pitch it's just like you can't stop running it's not like in a bad bad like punishment kind of way it's not that this is the way you play and we're going to beat them because they're going to get tired and we're not.

21:27And your line is like that high. It's like, I mean, it makes me sort of wince a little bit. I'm thinking, what, the spacing behind is unbelievable but to be fair, your goalkeeper does a good job. Yeah, like the messaging is, we, our backline has to be high because we need to make the pitch small because we're pressing them as much as we can. If we stay back, then the gaps are big. Yeah. And then also, flip it, we can't, we can't be high if you're not pressing. So if centre-backs got the ball and they've got time, we're high, then that's just a stupid line. If we're high but he's got pressure and he doesn't know where to go, we need to be there.

22:05Right. Next one. I don't even know what the question was. It's a good question, though. Good answer. Yeah, there's no one question that was. We're just talking about full-backing, right? It's brilliant, this. He was at your low point last year, would you say, in your career? I've learned a lot from it, which is good, and I think that's helped me this season especially. What you'll do is the output. And there's so much more I can go and achieve.

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23:08I hate seeing you.

23:14I used to play when I was younger. I don't play much anymore.

23:24Doing very well, don't I? From what I see is when Rooney came in, he was like, it looked like he was a man, he was everything. And then Ronaldo's come in and he was probably a little bit more frustrating, a little bit more needed to learn and wasn't the finished article. At what point did like them scales then change and Ronaldo was the real deal and the best player in the world? I think you're right. Rooney was almost like a man straight away from 2000. what would it have been, 2004? When he broke in, 2002, 2003, 2004, when he broke in. And when he broke into the England team at sort of like 18, he was like the best player in the team straight away.

24:00He was unbelievable. Like his decision-making, his power, his strength. Ronaldo came and he was like that, quite scrawny, not developed his body. His decision-making was erratic. He would, you know, if he should have crossed it, he dribbled, if he should have dribbled, he crossed it. He always, to be fair, frustrated the players in the middle because he'd go to cross it and they'd make the run and they'd turn back. and you get down that line and just put it in he was all over the place and I actually lost faith with him because not just that he wasn't delivering them in an attacking sense but he actually he didn't run back that much so he wasn't really helping whereas Becht when I played there before was always running back and doubling up so I always had help so it was quite frustrating and then I think it was around 2006 he scored that's when they knocked us out of the World Cup in Germany and he scored the penalty and he came back and all of a sudden his physique his body had changed and that season, 2006, when we first won the league, I went to the league for three years because of Mourinho and Wenger and that season, just a transformation into this absolute machine, strong, I think he scored 35, 40 goals.

25:02Waza kept at that level. When they were both at that level, probably 2006 to 2009 when he left, that was the best United team I've ever seen because you had Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez up front and you had obviously Giggs, Scholes, Carrick, it was unbelievable and the movement, the speed, the powers was frightening but then sort of Cristiano went to Madrid carried on going that way and Wazza started to sort of Wazza's career at 27 he played for like 10, 11 years already so they both sort of like Wayne was always going to have a shorter career but when they were both together 2006-09 they were brilliant and then after that Cristiano started to go like that Could you tell that was going to happen?

25:39The body shapes were different I say that respectfully in terms of Wazza's sort of square sort of strong shape because Cristiano had this physique like a super middleweight boxer and he was in the gym every day for an hour before his pre-activation even back then when it was like it wasn't really the thing as much and he'd stay after and do all the sort of the ice baths he had all the stuff in his house robotics too strong he never took a chance with his professionalism at all which to be fair was you know if you ask him he did yeah you know he liked to drink he liked to go out a little bit and his body shape was different but they were both unbelievable players but cristiano just went on and he's still going now.

26:14You've seen his brother. I mean, it's unbelievable. But your body shape is similar to Cristiano's, I would say, in the sense of when he first came in. And you've obviously got stronger. He's got stronger. People now see you as a midfield player, because it's just the way you play and where you're ending up with Liverpool. Do you see yourself as a midfield player or do you still see yourself now as a right back? I probably still see myself as a right back. I see myself who can probably play in both positions if needed. needed but I think my focus is until I'm told otherwise by the gaffer then I'm still right back I come inside and I play inside when we've got the ball but essentially when you're writing the team sheet I'm right back You're by far I'd put you in the same category as Kevin De Bruyne and David Beckham in terms of use of the ball I've never seen anything like it I don't know how you do it Thank you I have no idea how you deliver the ball how you do from deep from high up the pitch when you're in midfield the passes you play and then I've always asked that a little bit more from your defensive you know that and I've said that to you and you know when I've spoken to you something's changed it's felt like in the last six months have you made is there something changed in your mind about because to me the right back defending right it's the easiest bit what you're doing is the hard bit everyone everyone always says that to me you know that the it's harder the stuff that I'm good at and the stuff that I excel at, like the passing, the vision, everything like that.

27:39That's the hard part. That's the things that people can't pick up. It's that you can't learn. It's just instinctive. But I think definitely over the last, I think, like I said, in the summer, I had a, because of, I think last season was a season I thought to myself, I'm not going through that again. And I feel like I should be able to control whether I have a good season. I'm happy with how I play, regardless of what people say. people might say I have a bad game. There's times I'll come home and I'll think, you know what, I felt like I'd done my job, I'd done what I was asked. I may have never got assists or whatever, but solid defensively, done this, that and the other, but people won't talk about that.

28:17So I thought as long as I can say in myself that the season's gone well, I just thought I don't want to waste another season. Were you suffering last season? What was in your mind last season? I think it was just, I think as a player, as a team, as a whole, we kind of went through a rough season. When people have such high expectations of you individually and as a team, it's hard to then keep living up to them. And it's the hardest demand ever, which is why I have so much respect for you and your team in that era and how to continuously keep winning and finding it. It's the hardest, I've found that.

29:03It's the hardest thing to do in football is to be consistent. We had bad seasons as well, though. We had seasons where we dropped to well below our standard. You just don't remember them sometimes at the end. Yeah, but I just felt at the end of the season, I just thought I've learnt a lot from it, which is good, and I think that's helped me this season especially. but I just thought I'm not going through that again last season. I just didn't want to feel the way I felt at times and likewise as a team I want to be, I've said it before, I want to be winning minimum one trophy a season. What are you like when you come home, when it's not going well, when you feel like, how do you carry football home with you?

29:44Are you able to switch off or are you somebody that when you have a game or a difficult moment you carry it with you and you're like a little bit down? Both I would say. a little bit of both yeah i think i respect the way i feel um and i embrace it for however long it needs it needs to take the more of a run that you're in the longer than you know you have what you're in good form you have one bad game you don't even really think about it it's like oh it's a bad game let me get back back to it you know four five six games where you haven't really had a good game yeah um it lasts a lot longer um from someone who just i try as much as best as i can't it, just keep a flat baseline and whether good, bad in between is don't get ahead of yourself and I've always believed in keeping level headed, you know, my family and my friends around me as well will, you know, keep my feet on the floor.

30:37Was that your low point then last year would you say in your career? I would say so, yeah, I would say so. I think from the start, it was kind of up from the start getting into the team, then all of a sudden the next season I'm Champions League final going to a World Cup in my first full proper season as a first team player and then the next season winning the Champions League, then the next season and it was just every season was just and it was, I always thought that there would come that point and a bit like you feel it in the academies and whatever and even you know, like I said, so many good games you'll go like that and then this, that and the other erm So I was expecting it to come at some point.

31:24I think it came at the right time. I think if it came too early in my career, it dents your confidence and you start to question yourself. Whereas, no, that wasn't the point. I understood what I'd achieved so far and I was so proud of myself and how much work I put in. But also understanding how much I'm not even, hopefully not even halfway through my career. And there's so much more I can go and achieve. and figuring that out, figuring out what it is that I want to go and do and want to achieve and challenge myself, push yourself to the limits and have that demand on yourself to have to perform week in, week out.

31:58What did you do in the summer that made you feel like, OK, I'm not going to do it again, but what did you do that means that you feel now? Obviously, this season, I've noticed your mentality at the start of the season. Your performance levels have always been high, but this season, I just felt there was the determination in you that was sort of like, oh, this is a different level. to the point where up until you're injured, you're probably talking about being one player of the season in the whole league, let alone just as a defender. I think I felt a big sense of responsibility on myself. Up until now, I've kind of just gone with the flow.

32:32Like I said, everything's been going upwards and upwards and upwards. Naturally, it just keeps getting better and you don't have to think about things too much. You're just enjoying your footy, not thinking about it, and everything just keeps happening. It's going with the flow almost a little bit. Yeah, and then it gets to a point when that flow kind of starts bringing you down. And then I'm thinking, OK, well, I need to take responsibility to make sure this doesn't keep going down and it halts there. And to be fair, back in the last season, I really got a big, a good run of games, good run of form.

33:02Had the summer with England, which kind of revitalised me as well. Gave me that fresh new hope of finding a place in the England team. And some really good chats with the manager. and then yeah so I just felt a lot of responsibility like it's on you it's my career you can't just kind of let it just pass you by and if it's good it's good if it's bad it's bad it's like you need to try and get a grip of it and get the power of whether it is good or whether it is bad and force it in that direction so and then just having a demand on myself I think the responsibility of an Naby and club vice captain really coming to it as well, start getting put into that role, means you need to step up, you need to perform, people are looking up to you, you need to be a role model, you need to be someone in the changing room, in and around it, that's driving standards.

33:58I just felt responsible for that, and I like it, I love the responsibility, and I crave it really. Did you speak to anybody else that helped you? Obviously your manager maybe, or coaches, but did you see a side coach, or did you see anybody that you sort of like going, confiding, or just do it all mainly yourself and through your coaching staff? A lot of it was just, yeah, through the manager, with the coaching staff, with my family. They helped me through as well. No, it wasn't like I was in a really dark, dark place. It wasn't... No, just performance level. Yeah, it's just like you're just not happy with how you're playing.

34:31And when that's the biggest thing in your life, it does get on top of you. And you're a local lad and you feel it. I think you feel it more when you're local. I mean, obviously the players that come to the club, big clubs like Liverpool, they feel it as well. But when you're local, you feel it more, I think. Yeah, 100%. Because it's like you're engulfed in it. It feels like you're in the centre and everything's surrounding you. Not that it gets on top of you, but it's an intense thing and it's something that I'm sure you felt the same. You love it because it makes you feel even more special when things are going well.

35:05But you've also got that sense of you're letting everyone down when you're not performing, which is difficult. But I think it's good for players, it's not good for players to go through it, but it's important, because, like you said, once you come out of it, I feel now, whatever I go through now, between now and the end of my career, I'll be able to handle it. Whether good or bad, I'll have the right mentality towards it. I still remember to the day, the first time I seen my name on the back of someone's shirt. My group that I came through with, no-one really made it. It was kind of just me. You know what I've always wanted to ask you?

35:39Here we go.

35:45so talk to us about liverpool in terms of sort of the city talks a little bit about your charity as well um the city um intense yeah in a good way in like a loving wholesome like yeah you can see like just by people looking at you changing like someone's life really isn't it's incredible um I still remember the day the first time I saw my name on the back of someone's shirt in the city center. I was about 18. Just couldn't believe it. Couldn't not believe it.

36:37contracts just the right expert right when you need them work smarter and faster with upwork go to upwork.com now and find your freelance expert that's upwork.com post a job for free and get started today and then now it's just above and beyond now it's incredible and the charity work that you're doing yeah so charity is um the after academy it's basically set up for kids who get released at 16 17 18 19 onwards who you know Liverpool's academy no just from any any academy um and it's there to kind of support them in what way give them apprenticeships give them you know placements where they can go work experience for a year or so and yeah get what they need to get and and hopefully then you know find something else because I don't know what it was like for you but when I was in the academy the only thing was you need a footballer and if where you're a coach, you go and get your badges.

37:39They were the only kind of things, and I think you now, like to yourself, and the media side of it, there's so many more opportunities to go and be a part of football that isn't just being a player or a coach, and there's so many different avenues that are out there that we're just not taught about in the academy. It's interesting you say that, because it's obvious that the players that get released at 18, their dreams are just completely shattered, but when I probably after I was 23, 24 I became PFA union rep so every year I had to go in with the young players to see the manager which when he was releasing them as young pros or apprentices and sit there and listen to the manager tell them that they wouldn't be there anymore and obviously sometimes they get other clubs wouldn't they but imagine if they don't get another club it's the ones that don't really exactly don't really know where to go or what to do are you just thinking that for I mean obviously do you just feel the privilege and honour of doing what you're doing but you just is it someone that sort of you looked at that you thought someone you played with or someone that you were young a lot really because my group that I came through with no one really made it it was kind of just me and I was like we all sacrificed so much and I sacrificed the exact same as 10, 15 other lads my age let alone lads above and below me but they got rejected but they got rejected and like mine's worth it I sit back now and think I'd do it all again because I'm ripping the reward from it but them lads they're not kind of getting the reward from it and it's like okay well I've wasted all them years and I've got nothing to show for it yeah I was part of the Liberal Academy but what's that going to do for me now I can't go and say can I have a job because I was there you know so it's kind of giving them a chance to make something of themselves Right well look I've absolutely loved speaking to you today it's been amazing and have I missed anything out by the way?

39:31You know what I've always wanted to ask you? Here we go. No, no, no, this is like... What was it like when Phil left United? Do you know what I was saying? It's interesting that everyone else was relieved. No, do you know something? I always remember it was like when Bex left, Butty left and Phil left. And it was bad each time because we had literally been together for 10 years. But I went round to the boss's house with Phil to see him on, I think it was a Sunday night. You get into everyone's meetings. If you want me to come and see Jürgen or Gareth with you, I'll sort it out for you. Don't worry.

40:08I can talk a good game. Get into everyone's meetings. It's a good way of putting it. No, I was asked to come along. And Phil was just dreading this meeting with the manager. I just said, look, you know... So what was it? I rang the boss up and said, look, me and Phil. Did he want to go or did the club want to go? He wanted to go. So Phil was in a role where, but I'm trying to think like... he was playing 25-30 games a season but when the big no matter how well he played he felt when the big game came along he might miss out and like someone had come back in and he felt like he wasn't going to be sort of like and he'd done that for like seven or eight years he felt and in the end he just said no I want to be number one I want to play I want to play every single week and David Moyes had had come in for him and he just said and the manager said no I want you to stay I want you to carry on doing what you're doing and he just said to the boss no I said well Phil said it I just need to play every week boss I need to feel like I'm on the team sheet and I respected it but I didn't like it I wanted us to all stay together like when Nicky left he was on pre-season and he felt exactly the same way Newcastle came in for him and he went home from pre-season and it felt like it felt like someone had sort of like passed you know what I mean it was like it was horrible but he left our tour we were in pre-season in America and it's horrible I mean have you had that feeling with someone that you've I mean Jordan maybe left or yeah probably probably him though because that was that was a surprise obviously coming back from pre-season and it's just like yeah it's gone starts getting into talks and it's a bit different now because it's like it's all over Twitter it's all over yeah it's like you know like a move kind of happening before it even starts no it was tough it was tough because you think you're going to be together forever you've been together i think we'd won i think we won six titles together all of us like up to a 25 26 and then like them three left within three or four years and then me gigsy and skulls he stayed i stayed till i was 36 skulls is 38 and gigs till he was 40 so they stayed for a couple years after me um but yeah it was it wasn't great when they left what what part of the game do you loved most?

42:26Game day. I think the whole game day. It's like these times now. Yeah. You missed that bit. It's just like... But you know, that to me is the difference between you and me. I would... Panic's not the right word. I wouldn't panic about game day. Just overthink it. Yeah. And it was like, because for me, as a right back, was I going to win my team the game? no very rare you can only lose score seven goals in six I can only actually lose my team the game you know what I mean that's my mentality so I played 600 games United thinking that actually most weeks the likelihood is that I'm not going to win my team the game no one's going to say Gary Neville was the best player on the pitch day if we win but if I give a goal away that was my mentality I played my whole career like that as you play your career with the freedom of thinking I'm the influence this game in a positive way because of the way you play.

43:26And that's a complete difference. Rooney was like that. I remember game day, quarterfinal, 2004, first tournament. Are you all right? Thinking that he'd be a little bit, he went, I can't wait for tonight. And I'm like, I'm glad someone can. I played against Ronaldo and Figo because they were swapping wings. Ronaldo and Figo played for Portugal and they were swapping wings and I knew I was having one of them. Cristiano, for fair, went against Ash at left back and I had Figo. Do you find that difficult? Like, if you come against a teammate on an international level? Yeah, I played against Cristiano a couple of times where he came over to my side.

44:01It'd be tough. I don't think he enjoyed it either, though. I don't think he enjoyed it. He's rubbing his hands, really. No, but at the time, he was quite young and I was quite experienced and I wasn't fazed by him at that time because I played against him every day. I'll say this, the best players I played against were in training. Giggs, Ronaldo, Rooney. I was playing against him every day. I felt like when I first came in I was against Sadio and Coutinho you're playing Coutinho and Mane every day you play against players better than that most weeks no no no how good was Mane by the way his runs oh my god he would have caused me a massive problem no no no same he's the one player that I've played I've always thought I'm thankful I never had to play against him he'd have caused me he would have been my worst nightmare that run he was a perfect attacker you know he had he had everything the movement was unbelievable with him as an athlete that was probably like in the end similar to like Ronaldo I would say like he had the jump he could get up he was fast he could finish not finishing probably wasn't the same but he could finish both feet he was just a threat at all times for everyone right we should do a podcast every week on the right backs I know we did thank you amazing that thank you Thank you.