Trent Booed & Gary Can’t Watch United Anymore? | The Overlap Fan Debate

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1:52www.adio.com Or visit jerry.ai slash acast today. If we go on and win this and I'm not able to hug my dad and my mates who I go every week, what's the point? Hug him when you get home. No one in four years' time is going to go, did you see the statistics of Arsenal? You're the team that basically bottle every big game I've ever seen you play. Well, this is where it changes. I'm surprised you say that. I'm really surprised you say that. Should he be in games of being doing whatever that gesture was? He's done a brilliant job, but now can he get him over the line? We've got a striker that couldn't hit a barn door.

2:31I would choose every single player of Tottenham's over Manchester United. He lost to a mid-table team last year in the final. That's not a dig, that's a genuine fact. Who wants Crystal Palace to win the cup final? That's obviously me as well, sorry. If you win the Europa League, they'll have a barbecue.

2:53Hello and welcome back to the Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet. Paul Scholes is with me once again and we've got Gary Neville who was making a little appearance on this one. Reason why? I thought you couldn't do it or you couldn't do it. I got asked ages ago and I said yes and then I think you because then you could do it again. Yeah. So were you? Yeah, we're here. And we've got the supporters who are in here, week in, week out. Scolese, what have you been up to the last week or so? I mean, obviously a little bit disappointing, was it? Have we seen each other since the last game of the season?

3:24No, no, we haven't, no. Yeah, disappointing, of course. Last game of the season, didn't quite make it, Liguerre. No. And yeah, just watching games as normal. A bit of Liverpool-Arsenal Sunday. Chelsea-Newcastle as well, early Sunday. So, yeah, a little bit of a void left on Saturday, I suppose. Disappointing with the playoffs happening as well, I think. It would have played, didn't it? Walsall we would have played, wouldn't it? Have you been involved in the playoffs before? A couple of years ago. Yeah, Stockport beat us in the semi-final. Oh, OK. Stockport fan behind you. All right, let's get into the supporters.

3:56Gareth, welcome you back. Last time we were on, you spoke about you just want to go and celebrate the title in the Solly, I think he was, or a little chink. I mean, it was a couple of weeks ago now. How was that? Everyone ran out of bail, didn't they? Yeah. Outside the ground. Solly ran out of bail. So yeah, there was an unbelievable amount of people down there. Obviously, the people in the ground were people who couldn't get in the ground who just came down to join in the celebrations. It was everything I wished for, to be honest. I was with my mates. The mates have always gone to the game. We did manage to chink the glasses.

4:25We did manage to get our pints in before we moved on. And it was great. My lad was down there. I couldn't get him a ticket, but he was on the roof of one of the pubs. So I had to tell him off for that. Just a lit! But, yeah, it was absolutely brilliant. And it was everything we wanted. Even the way the game went. there was a little bit of jeopardy obviously conceding the goal and you were like are they going to split the party here and then we turned it on and it was fantastic the noise in the ground the support everything and then I just spent the night hugging people I just kept seeing all different people hugging them we've done it we've finally done it all that kind of stuff and yet it's definitely I think it's probably the worst hangover I've had in about 20 years but it had to be didn't it Right let's get back to sort of what's happening right now and I'm sure you were in the stadium at the weekend what did you make of it?

5:17Was there people booing around you? I mean I've been told there was scuffles around the stadium with different people sort of not happy with the situation. Where were you in the stadium and what was it like around you? So I'm in the cop I'm in T04 in the cop and I saw it in miniature really on my row if you like in that. My reaction to him coming on was do we really need to bring him on? But sort of no more than that I didn't clap him I didn't boo him I just didn't do anything. I was just sort of, you know, for me, he's gone. I'm not really bothered by it now. I wish we could stop talking about it and concentrate on the fact that in a few weeks we'll see Virgil van Dijk with the Premier League trophy.

5:53So it was a bit of a shame that we had this sort of side story. But yeah, so I wasn't really bothered. To my left, there was a lad who was absolutely fuming that people were booing. And to my right, there was a lad who was booing. And the lad who was booing took it to the extreme of when Trent got that free kick, he ducked down. And he said, I'm not watching that. I don't want to see that. Now, I don't get that because he's still wearing a red shirt and we want to win the game. And he's good on free kicks. I quite liked, in a weird way, I'm not sure, I don't see too many people saying this, I actually like the single-mindedness of Slott, of saying, I just wanted to win the game.

6:30And I don't really care about the noise. And I think that's what he's managed all season. If you think about Fulham at home, he absolutely went for it when we went down to 10, didn't he? And I think that's not something a manager might normally do. But that says to me he doesn't care. I don't care what stories you write. I don't care what the noise is. I'm going to concentrate on this. Do you think Trent should play in the next two games just because the league's won and you've had that reaction? Would Slott almost be... Because I think if you're outside of Liverpool right now, there's a lot of people having to go at Liverpool.

7:02Other supporters having to go at Liverpool fans. We know how that works. And listen, Liverpool supporters left ourselves open if you like to. to that stick off other supporters. But if Slott kept picking him and that was reaction in the next two games, would Slott almost be a little bit guilty there of like, we've won the league, we don't need to use him, we don't need this, we don't need the Trent sort of bandwagon. The sideshow of it, yeah. I mean, I kind of hope it's sort of done with and people have maybe got it out of the systems. I hope people have got it out of the systems. So, you know, if he was to be involved against Crystal Palace the last game, well, I hope we don't see the same things again.

7:38but also just on I think Connor Bradley needs time we need to see if he's any good we need to see what he's like in 90 minutes of football and when I started to look at the logistics or the reason the logic as to why he brought sense on on Sunday I thought well was it because he was on a yellow card was it because he put a tackle in just before where he did get the ball but it was a bit dangerous and he could have given a pen away was it maybe that I don't know he started to struggle a bit in the game yeah he was a little bit wasn't he there was a couple of moments he had where you were like But he's got to learn, hasn't he?

8:09And we've already won the league. So I kind of think, well, those baptism of fire moments, if you like, he's got to go through them to learn. So I'd just like to see him get minutes anyway. And yeah, I don't want the distraction anymore of it. Like I say, for me, he's gone. He's already gone. He's said he's gone. So see you then. Gareth, I wish I hadn't said that now because people keep throwing it back at me. I said a week ago, I'm sick of sorts of people outside telling Liverpool fans how to think. Now, this came up again yesterday. I was listening to the radio. It will come up again a lot in a few years.

8:42It's fine. So will you, Owen and Salford. But the point I was trying to make, someone was using an example yesterday, and this is what's frustrating me, is that like, not that anyone can have their own opinion about any other team, of course they can, but someone used the example yesterday on the radio of Eric Dier's reception at Bayern Munich, and I think someone's used it in a paper again today, and I'm like, this is what frustrates me. people aren't quite getting it it's like he got a great reception he's leaving on a free from Bayern Munich you're a bit like what are you talking about it's not from a supporters point of view and obviously you get people around the country saying they don't understand from your point of view what explain it because I feel like I say it all the time but from someone who goes home and away watching Liverpool explain it why there is that frustration and there is that sort of booze in the ground there's lots of reasons I think I mean the first one first and foremost is that he's a scouser, he's grown up in West Arby, he's lived our dream, if you like.

9:38And I think a lot of people just can't compute that you're living the dream, so why do you want more? Why do you want something different? Isn't this good enough for you? Because it would be good enough for us. That's how we see it. But equally, I would also say we don't walk in his boots, we don't know what his life's like, and he has sort of completed it, if you like. And that's why I'm sort of all right. If you want to go somewhere else, sound, I just think the whole thing could have been handled a little bit better. I think that one of the problems... In what way? What could he have done? I mean, he could have signed a deal, couldn't he, with some kind of get-out clause, and then we got something for him.

10:11I think that would have softened away a little bit. Was the timing of the video right? Should he have just waited till the end of the season? Should he be in games of being doing whatever that gesture was? Because now, because we've all got our fingertips, at our fingertips, an archive, the internet. We can go back to everything he's ever said, everything he's ever done, every video he's ever on, and people are doing, and they're going, he said that, he said that, he said that and now he's going there, why? And so they see a contradiction there and they think they've been let down they think he's had us over they think he's having himself a little bit because I think back to Alex Inglethorpe saying he was a grounded lad who turned up in the same trackie every day and drove a car that wasn't extravagant well now he's in a Cheshire mansion he's knocking round that De Monaco Grand Prix dressed as a painter and decorator he's going to fashion week do you know what I mean like okay I want to ask you about that because I know that playing for Liverpool and I don't know if this is probably something similar in Manchester there is that feeling and I always felt that as a local player you can never be seen to be that yeah it's a little bit you got laughed at for having a wallet didn't you exactly but there is that thing in Liverpool as if when you're a local player you know what I don't even think it's football I don't think it's anyone who does well it's always a bit like don't forget where you come from don't almost leave us you know almost that type of feeling is there something similar around in Manchester growing up or did you have this sort of thing with the supporters and the views what was your reaction Scolzi what to Trent yeah but what did you feel when you saw that I think it's difficult when you know as you said about people from Liverpool they're going to have a majorly different view I'm a little bit surprised by Gareth's view he's almost like yeah okay fair enough that doesn't seem the view of most Liverpool fans when you see the boon at the weekend.

12:03I try to think of players. We had Gaz in a... If I felt it was a man... I know people say, when I've used Bex as an example, they say he wasn't from Manchester, but he was a man. That's what I was going to say. He may as well have been because from the age of literally five, six years of age, he supported United. His mum and dad came up every single week to watch. He joined the club at 13 and he'd been with the club 13 years. He was near as damn it as a United lad as you could get. And obviously he did leave. The thing with Bex was it came as a shock at the end of the season when no one was expecting it.

12:34So if you remember at the end of the season, that last game of the season, he obviously had that whisper on the pitch to me which said, I'm leaving to go. I think they want to sell me. Do you think it was a big shock? No, not towards... It's come to the end. Yeah, it's come to an end. I think it was a bit of a shock to the fans at the time that he actually happened within a week of the end of the season. The other one is Ronaldo. I know it's completely different again, but Ronaldo at the end of the 2008 Champions League game said, I want to leave, didn't he? Which is a massive thing at the end.

12:59And if you remember, United negotiated another year and he played for the whole season and everyone in that stadium, everyone in the club, knew that he was leaving. But he actually still got a decent reception all year, to be fair to him. Now, I know it's different, maybe, but they're the only two things. I think it was real when he got caught chatting to Kenyon and he had people at his house. I know he's not an academy player, but it's similar, like the away ends of booing him. Who's that? Sorry, Adam. Real when he got caught having a chat with Peter Kenyon and stuff. Oh, Chelsea. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

13:28He had people turning into his house and things like that, which was a bit on top. Can I ask a question? What I don't understand is why Trent in particular is being sort of singled out. When we know, I imagine there is some truth in the fact that Gerrard wanted to join Chelsea. Suarez was angling for a move to Arsenal. That's the same energy for me. So why weren't they, you know, vilified in the same way? Well, I think, I mean, Gareth, I think people have a similar sort of view. I think when players come in, you just mentioned Ronaldo there, you almost expect that they see this as not the final destination we know everybody else who comes to our club if they end up moving to Madrid or Barcelona it's a little bit like we get it we get it Stevie ended up staying so he did have that Chelsea stuff now Stevie would have gone he would have had that and when it was close to happening it was a little bit like that we've got to remember it's pre-social media as well you know social media I think in this day and age amplifies everything but I think it just goes back to that local lad thing it's like you but Sol Campbell which is obviously a lot worse because he goes to Arsenal I get that a lot worse no I get that but what I'm saying is there's this feeling that and I think that's probably the thing what I meant when people sort of telling Liverpool fans out to think it's like it's not a normal transfer there's a lot around being a local player and trends and rightly so and I've done that and probably you've done this as well as a Manchester lad saying I'm not saying you do it on pace but you know I hate Liverpool I'm one of you I'm like you.

14:57So Trent sort of used that, I'm just a local lad, I want to be the next Steven Gerrard, I want to be the captain, I'm just a normal lad who's living his dream. You can't use all those words, you can't use that for years and years and play on the heartstrings of supporters and then go, I'm going to Real Madrid for free. The team who have beaten Liverpool in two European Cup finals that he's played in. And it feels engineered as well, doesn't it? It feels like this has been a long-term tactic for him to go there. Oh, he's done that deal quite a bit. Exactly. Is it not also as well, because you probably feel like you're more set up for success in the next two or three years than you were when, say, Gerrard and the Chelsea thing happened.

15:30Well, obviously, yeah, because everyone outside of our bubble will tell us Real Madrid are a bigger club than you. They've won more European Cups than you, whatever. But we'll say, we've just won the league and we want to go for the European Cup next season. And we might be playing Real Madrid. And I'll tell you what, if he comes back to Anfield with Real Madrid, he'll hear booze that night. You know what I mean? But Real Madrid is the only destination outside of... that a player for Liverpool and Man United would choose to go to. That seems to be the case. Does he feel appreciated? Not just on Liverpool, but in this country just generally.

15:59You think about it, he's not playing for England. He's not played for England. I know he's played for England a few times, but compared to the fact that he's... What a player he is. His defensive elements of his game, which we've all highlighted over many years, means that he... Does he not feel appreciated in this country? I think this is a point that frustrates Liverpool supporters even more about the transfer, because you've got to remember this, this is probably the most talked about full-back we've ever spoke about because he's unique and when you think about great full-backs yourself included you think about really good defenders and he's different we get that but this is again why Liverpool supporters feel really upset about him because Liverpool supporters have been the one who feel like they've been defending this lad to everybody whether it's you on the overlap and Roy whether it's us in the Sky Studio whether it's supporters around the ground saying Rhys James is better Kyle Waterman he can't defend he can't do this Liverpool fans feel like they've been the one who's been fighting for their boy for like eight years for everyone against the country.

16:54England's in the summit, midfield, is he there? Is he there? Everyone feels like the country is on top of him. So I get that. He mightn't feel appreciated but the Liverpool support thing, we've been the one who's been absolutely dying for you and championing you and defending you to everyone and then you've left on a free. I know, but he does, I mean look, it might be little things, to be fair, the fact that Real Madrid came in for him and the fact that he obviously got a relationship with Bellingham and he might want to go abroad and do something but he does get substituted quite a lot in terms of the last 15, 20 minutes.

17:20It feels like he gets substituted a lot, and I watch a lot of people, not as many as you, but you just feel like the last 20 minutes when they're under pressure, you would see Joel Gomez coming on quite a bit at times. Does he feel like, just generally, that this country or the fact that he's not playing for England, he gets substituted at times for Liverpool and maybe misses the last 15 minutes because they save him? Maybe there's something, one day it may come out with him, but in terms of criticising from defending, all I ever said with his defending was he just has to get a little bit more serious and attentive to his defensive work.

17:49That's the language I always use to buy. I thought, it is going to hurt you at some point. And it is hurting him because it'll hurt Conor Bradley. Conor Bradley got subbed on Sunday, I'm convinced, because Trossard and Martinelli started to target him a little bit. And until you knuckle down your side and you stop people coming down your side, you will just continually get targeted. You have to stop it coming down your side. So for me, I think... Talk about being loved at your club. Actually, I remember saying on air, Jamie, that I actually wasn't sure that Arnie Slott liked him. In his team, I remember I did the United game at Old Trafford and he kept it in these passes and on these long passes and I think, I don't think he wants that.

18:29You've seen Slott's reaction on the bench. You were by the bench, weren't you? Yeah, right by the bench and he kept shaking his head and putting his head down, looking at his bench. It wasn't the type of right back he wanted, I don't think. I think he wanted to be a little bit more controlled. and you never know around that time he might have been thinking if Madrid want me now he could have signed his deal any time around then you know what I mean you talk about not being loved as Gaz said not playing in the England team as well there could be a big factor and I think you're right Liverpool fans they've had to defend him because he has had a stake we all know what a brilliant player he is and how good he is he's crossing his passion's amazing but defensively outside of Liverpool He has been given a lot of stoke.

19:13Just one point on the... Liverpool could have took 20 million. I know they shouldn't have done, and they were right now, but they could have taken 20 million for him in January, which was four months before the end of his contract. I know that that was something that they were never going to do, but they could have got money for him. They were offered that money, weren't they? And I thought it was a bit provocative for him, but I thought it was a piss take, to be honest with you. But they could have got 20 million for him, which was, you know... Not nowadays, though, is it? No, but it would have risked them winning the league, which, to be fair, you would never have taken that risk, but they could have got cash for him but they weren't willing to risk their position for it to get£20 million but they wanted him to basically risk his position by signing a contract.

19:47That's the bit that I'm not agreeing with that. I don't think he should have signed a contract just so the club got money. No, I don't think it's actually for the club. I think it's for his own standing with the supporters and how they think about him and they think, well, OK, you give us a little bit back. I don't think it's a thing with the club as such. I've had enough of their subject now.

20:11It's time for our new game on the winning track, brought to you by Trainline. Their best price guarantee means you won't find cheaper same-day train tickets anywhere else. And even if you do, Trainline will refund the difference. Exclusions and conditions apply. Search best price guarantee on trainline.com.

20:36right then our fans will compete against each other to identify a mystery footballer here on our train line board we've actually Gary Neville the boss we got the boss in today so Gary is going to take Wayne Rooney's place and hopefully do a little bit better than he did about working out where the clubs are on here so Gary will place a club on the board and our fans have got to guess who it is the only clues they will receive are that the teams that said mystery player a plead for from the start of their career to the finish so loan clubs don't account the winning team will receive a train line voucher yeah and that will come in handy for the next away day if you guess as you know if you guess straight away and you're wrong you're out to answer you need to shout your name and raise your hand Gary please name the teams as you place them on the board so this is an example Manchester United I know it's well back did they go to Offord or Arsenal first Arsenal Arsenal yeah whatever so that's it yeah Gary take them off put them round the back and then we'll go from there so it's the best of three quizzes and the first up will be Gareth and Dan v Simon and Luke right right the mystery player so you know what the mystery player is yes the first club is Liverpool go on where would that go on the map it's near Wales isn't it somewhere it's around there somewhere we'll take that we'll take that around here Right, any guesses first of all?

22:02No one's going to guess, Hardy. No one guessing that? No. I think they'll get it on the next one, though. The next club is City. Round here. Yeah, we'll confirm a guess on Sterling. Did you raise your hand and say your name? Yeah, I didn't. Yeah, Luke Sterling. Yes, Raheem Sterling. Luke has got that one. That was an easy one.

22:30QPR, actually, yeah. We've got so much heat for leaving. Yeah, where's QPR? It was in the academy there. Did he play a game for QPR? Yeah, I think so. He didn't, so stay out of it. We're talking about the under-18s, I don't know. Right, right, next player. What's the first one you've got there, guys? Non-league. That means... There you go. Non-league. Just put it right in the middle. There's no one else for me to go. We'll go Simon and Luke, Jamie Vardy. No, you're out. Why would you do that? Make it entertaining, guys. Make it entertaining. It'll be over in two minutes. Right. I'll rate it. Right.

23:11I may as well have all the clubs now. Queen's Park Rangers. I don't know if I'm around right there, but must be out London there, innit? Yeah. Is it west? Yeah. Yeah. Go on. QPR. QPR. Non-league. No, they're not going to go for that. Newcastle. Oh, my God. Where's Newcastle now? Is it up here somewhere? Where? Where, though, is it? Glasgow Rangers. Where's Scotland start? Is Scotland about there? No, it's there, isn't it? Oh, Scotland there. So where's Newcastle here? Who's there? Is Newcastle over this side? Yeah. Non-league and Newcastle. QB or to Newcastle? Is that Newcastle? Where is Newcastle from here?

23:45It's about there. It's about there? Yeah. Is it there? Right, what's next, guys? Spurs. No. No? You've ruined this game now. How? I made it interesting. How about Rune? Just wait until the video ends. I think I know who it is. Human. Is this in order? I don't know where the clubs they've moved from. This is their journey. It's in order, yeah. Okay. So QPR to Newcastle. I don't know where he started. Tottenham. We're not allowed to guess, are we? Oh, guys, we wouldn't have. Who starts to QPR and him to Newcastle? I mean, they're obviously the big players. I think I've got this one. I've got it.

24:24Then he went to Tottenham. That's what I thought. What am I struggling with? We can't be waiting round. What's the next one, guys? I think it gets harder. I think it gets harder. Go on. West Ham. Where are West Ham there? That's from the name. I'm wrong. I think he went there. I'm wrong. Did he? Nunley. I have no idea where Leicester is. I go a bit, but I just don't know where it is. That's a lot of nothing. You're getting through this. This is typical Gary Nevers straight line. Let's get to this. Leicester. Oh, I see that. What? I'm showing you where Manchester is. Just above the 90s. Leicester is.

24:55Don't tell him You put Leicester I have no idea No one say a word You put Leicester I have no idea I have no idea East Midlands is it Leicester? East Midlands I don't know Is it over here somewhere? Yeah I don't know That's east of the Midlands Are you? We were never getting there No I'm glad you went I'm glad you went man Do a punt Do a punt Bolton You're not going to get this If you haven't got it in the first three Bolton's in here somewhere It's just getting harder Teams are there Yeah that doesn't help I can't even think Who's that? What's that say? Ralph usually ended up knocking the beat.

25:24Reading. Reading's over here somewhere. Oh, hang on, hang on, hang on. And then Watford.

25:33Have you not got it? I genuinely don't know. Has no one got it? No, no, no. I don't know. I thought it was Lesbord. It is, yes. It is Lesbord. What is Lesbord? The non-league play. I'm thinking of, like... All right, I need to get you back. Yeah, no points, no points for anybody. No one deserved any points. Right, here we go. Round three. Go on, guys. Where's Leeds? Over here. Yeah, yeah. Somewhere? Yeah. Leeds to Newcastle again. Is it up here, is it? Yeah. Yeah, Simon and Luke. Ah, we were going to... James Milner. Yes. Yes, you see that, you see that. The lack of conviction from me. I should have called you out.

26:20I've tried to be sound. Simon and the King are winners, 2-0. You've let us down there. As soon as he's pulled out.

26:36Another game next time, thanks to Trainline. Remember to download the Trainline app and search best price guarantee on trainline.com.

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28:57Right, let's get to Arsenal. Simon, semi-final of the Champions League, you know, you're getting close to sort of the biggest trophy you can probably win. I just wanted to ask you about Arteta's comments after the game of being the best team in the Champions League. I mean, what were your thoughts? So I think, and again, who knows? I think he's referring to statistics. If you actually look through statistics, Arsenal played pretty well. The issue is they had to score a lot of goals, but don't score goals when they need to score goals. So I think that is what he was getting at. But at the same time, the best team in the Champions League is the people that win the Champions League.

29:34It just is, right? No one in four years' time is going to go, did you see the statistics of Arsenal? It was really, really good. But at the same time, I think it all depends on what he's saying to the players. They can come out and say whatever he wants, right? Is it a deflection tactic? I don't know. But I think mostly the comment that seemed to get people is, you know, we were the better team against PSG. And in sections we were, but overall we weren't. Like I was at that first game at the Emirates. The first 20 minutes, I've never been that scared in my entire life. When we just parted like the Red Sea and left Dembele alone, I was like, listen, even I and I don't do that.

30:07And they took advantage of it. But then what did we do? We turned it on. The second half was better. I think Arteta made a good point. I don't think he should have said it because you're just setting yourself up for failure. I think you're tied to the Liverpool game as well, right? At first half, once again, I was like, we're going to get twonked 7-0 here. Honestly, there was some real bad moments, but then it's much like the PSG first leg, half-time, he says something to them. They come out, they remember who they are, and they played way better, and all of a sudden, we're 2-2. That's why I like the boos.

30:35Definitely made you all go, what? We took advantage of it, so thank you, Liverpool fans. Appreciate that. And it's just, I think all the conversations that are happening now about Arteta, I think need to happen in 12 months' time, depending on who we buy in the transfer. Have we not said that for two or three years? Yeah, I know, but it's different now, right? Because we have not had a number nine since Bamia, right? We haven't. But the priority, there's a big list, should be who do we want as our striker. They get told this is what we're going to do. And then, if we're sat here next May and we're in the exact same position, then you have to start looking elsewhere.

31:05But you're talking elsewhere in terms of a manager. Well, this is difficult for me because if I feel how I feel now, I'd be happy to go again with Arteta. But I am looking at it from a very specific point of view and I understand that. I really like the DNA running through the club. I love what he's done over the last few years. And I love this team. So I would much rather win it with the way that I feel now as opposed to get someone in that maybe doesn't have the same relationship with the fans. That's not how football works. I mean, I said on Sunday after the game, because I've been thinking about this, because I do think Arteta's done a really good job.

31:37and I know he's created something at Arsenal there is a togetherness with the supporters I think you know you can see the way they're going and they're nearly there but you know next season you know if they don't quite get there again I said the Arsenal boards will have that decision where of course we want to win the league we want to win the Champions League we want to win something but they'd also be terrified that what they've actually got right now could disappear you know where you maybe you end up fighting for Champions League I mean do you see sort of next season where it's almost he has to win or Arsenal's board are going to be in a difficult situation.

32:09Yeah, I was going to say he has to get close to winning, but I think he is close to winning, isn't he? Yeah, I agree. And I think he's done a great job. As you say, for the four or five years, I'd slap my hand off if United were in that position in the next four or five years. I just worry it's going on to that next stage, isn't it, now? They've got to a great place, finishing second three times, semi-final of the Champions League. I know they won the FA Cup in the first year, didn't they? Yeah, that's right. it almost feels a bit like the Gareth Southgate where he's done a brilliant job but now can he get him over the line?

32:45I just think there's them question marks out but I don't think it'd be now I think you've given at least a year two years he's built something brilliant from where they were they were in an awful position weren't they? Oh yeah awful and so inconsistent yeah and no personality to where they are now to where they are now is it's so much better as an Arsenal fan I'd love to be in that position I don't know what you think Gaz is United for now I'd love to be in that position I do think there's a mentality difference between Arsenal and United I do think that United I do think winning a trophy is absolutely critical I think Liverpool I think are similar I mean Arsenal are a great club it's a club I would have played for if I couldn't play for United but for Arsenal Arteta will definitely want to win a trophy and the players will definitely want to win trophies I think it's important to them but from an ownership I think you've just hit the nail on the head if the owners are looking at it I'm not sure the owners anymore they'd love to win a trophy but the fact of the matter is...

33:37Can you say trophy like Champions League or League? The Premier League but the fact of the matter is I think if he's continuing to deliver seconds and thirds getting close delivering them Champions League football delivering the revenues protecting the revenues which we know are massive for these clubs I don't think they will look to sack him as long as the dressing room and the actual fan base That's when I think the fans will come into it though won't they? The fans will then start The owners probably not but I think the fans will But that's what happened with Arsene Wenger in the end I think he was giving them Champions League football for so long it was like seven or eight years wasn't it and in the end because he wasn't winning a trophy they had to obviously the fans got on top and that's how they turned him in the stadium yeah so I think but I don't think the owners will turn on Arteta I think it'll be the fan base that'll say a trophy is important to us I'm not sure at this moment in time the owners will be sat there thinking anything other than supporting him I wouldn't do anything else I'd be delighted if United were in this position but United I think after three four years of finishing second I think there'd be an element of you've got to win it yeah but that's the same arsehole because they've been three or four years and they're finishing second I get that I don't think the owners, I genuinely think the owners would let this carry on for another three or four years.

34:37I think they would. The fans probably wouldn't, but the owners would. I think it depends on how I feel about the team. At the moment, it still feels exciting because it feels like people still want to come to us. If Zubamendi comes, great, that's excellent. That can fill a hole that we absolutely need. But again, it depends how close we get next year. Let's face it, we could actually not finish second this season. The football has to come back a little bit. I mean, I think that ultimately the football has deteriorated a little bit from obviously three years ago to now. they do feel a little bit overcoached and rigid don't they when you watch them and then certainly in set pieces they look like they're micromanaged within an inch of their life which is fair enough what hole is Zubamendi going to fill out I don't see a hole I'm surprised you say that I'm really surprised you say that why?

35:19because honestly I genuinely don't believe Partey and Rice on receiving the ball anywhere near as good as some of the midfield players in the league in terms of you watch Fabian Ruiz PSG and Ruiz and you watch Barcelona you watch the boy into Milan in midfield get on the ball and you even watch some players like at City in the past I think Arsenal in midfield I think Declan Rice is a brilliant player I think Partey's a very good player I don't think they've got anybody that can control a football match properly in the top games I think they really struggle on that I think Giorgino is the best of them I'm surprised you don't see that they need someone who can get all the ball and keep it moving I know Odegaard does it here but I think they struggle sometimes I think Declan Rice can do that you see Declan Rice more of a forward going player I don't see that in him at all I think Odes Arteta That's the thing.

36:01I don't see it in himself. I think Zubamendi is being brought in to do exactly that job so Rice can start. So Arteta basically, in two of the last three seasons, at the pinch points of the season, has moved Declan Rice from being in that deeper position to a number of literally left side pocket running forward because he knows he's better off going forward. I think Arteta's seeing that himself. I think in terms of bringing him in, he's obviously a really good player. I think it's not just in terms of those players and partying, and obviously they're not that type of player getting on the ball in turn.

36:32But I definitely think there's a style issue with Arsenal. Do you think that would deal with it, wouldn't it? Yeah, but what I'm saying is, people keep talking about the striker, the striker, the striker. We look on these stats, every time we do Monday Night Football, we look at the stats. Arsenal don't create enough chances. They don't. The numbers are there. It's in black and white. Now, of course, if they have a goal scorer, they get a few more goals. But I think they know that as well. When we had the Southampton manager on, I haven't finished. when we had Russell Martin coming on obviously at Southampton his type of style but he had some sort of link with maybe some of the staff at Arsenal they got on well or they spoke to each other and he was almost saying that they've been on this journey and I've said they've started at Pep Guardiola and they've almost finished at Jose Mourinho no I'm watching I mean I'm watching in Paris Saint-Germain you're batting them for the first 20 minutes you had 11 long throws I watched David Dreher in games even at Anfield and in PSG he takes three kicks on his own after the way Everton used to with Sean Dyche with Jordan Pickford I'm not this is not a criticism I'm fascinated by the style of Arsenal it's gone from sort of being this and it's moved and it's almost gone from sort of Pep Guardiola light to full Jose Mourinho it's not a criticism he's followed Pep again because what Pep did when he won the treble when he played those four big centre halves across his defence and went a bit more rigid himself he then followed I'm talking about being rigid I'm talking about being direct Pep Guardiola has never been direct I watch Arsenal I look at the stat they go long so often they rely on set pieces it's all out of Jose Mourinho play but clean sheets set pieces go direct Pep changed quite a bit a couple of years ago to win the treble win he didn't change his style he changed quite a bit and Arsenal got beat up at City away if you remember when they didn't have the strength in the team and then he went Arsenal went a bit more rigid a bit more solid which I thought the balance last season was really good at Arsenal I agree I thought they had the balance of the physicality and they had the balance of the play this season they've gone too far the other way but going back to what you said before I'm really surprised because the reason people that played with you said that you were the best player that they've ever played was because of how important you were ensuring we had the rhythm in the game when you think about Arsenal recycling that ball from Saka do you know what Arsenal do this about 50 times a half and they haven't got anybody who gets that ball that plays that sort of Bruno does it really well for United I think they do because we see Oudegaard on the ball a lot and they'll be playing do you know what I saw Zubomendi against United for Solskjaer and I wasn't impressed that's maybe where I'm coming from for filling that hole Well, that's fair.

38:57I think the centre-file will make a big difference and make a big difference to all the guys as well. This is what I think. I think, genuinely, you fill that role properly, I think we become more creative. And listen, the second half against Pigi in Paris, we did have loads of chances, we just didn't put them away. And that's what we always do. That's why I think it's so important and why people keep going back to win. Because when you watch the week in, week out, you're like, they did just every now and then have an aim, a centre point, which is going to go to that guy. Because I think what you're talking about, and I feel like Arteta will always look at his squad, especially when he's got injuries, and say, who are my top players and what can I get out of this team against who we're playing?

39:32So he doesn't mind going super defensive, doesn't mind going super set-piece. But then much, I think you hit the nail on the head last year when he did have a more balanced squad, he was like, well, now I can be more creative. And once again, it could just be all in our heads. But I think if you fill that striker role, you bring in Zubomendi, Partey, again, I thought Partey was going to be the solution in the second leg of the Champions League and he was responsible for both the goals. I mean, there are errors, it happens. There's nothing you can do. But that's when I was like, well, maybe we do just need to, not necessarily move him on.

39:59I'd love for him to stay. Because the other problem Arsenal have is the bench is not great. The squad depth is not great. Like against Liverpool, I was like, man, this is just, I don't even know where we've got some of these players from. So if he is happy to take more of a secondary role and you bring in Zubimendi, who I think could do that role well, but we don't know until he joins the Premier League. And then you've got a striker. And again, if we're waving magic ones, you get Nico Williams in there to add to the creative issue that maybe we do have although I think we are pretty creative when we're on our game he's going to have to sign two forwards in the midfield player I think he leaves the rest of the squad in place because I think there's a lot to like about the squad they don't need to muck around with the defence Saliba and Gabriel when they are together they make each other better and I think Arteta knows that so when he's got issues up front he goes well I know they will be rock solid so we'll play from then and we'll play for set pieces and I don't mind that I think the bigger issue this year I think he said it himself right?

40:50If you compare this season to last season, this year is not as good. That's not great, but then you have the semi-final of the Champions League, then you get your hope.

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41:59That's greenlight.com slash protect. A mochi moment from Tara, who writes, For years, all my doctor said was eat less and move more, which never worked. But you know what does? The simple eating tips from my nutritionist at Mochi. And after losing over 30 pounds, I can say you're not just another GLP One source. You're a life source. Thanks, Tara. I'm Myra Ameth, founder of Mochi Health. To find your Mochi moment, visit joinmochi.com. Tara is a Mochi member compensated for her story. Okay, we go from a team who can't win anything this season to a team who maybe have a chance. Dan, Crystal Palace, the cup final.

42:41I mean, you've been there a few times, haven't you, in the last few years, Cup Finals? Well, yeah, we were in the semi against Chelsea in 22. And we got to the final in 16 against United. But this is different this time. Not because I expect to win, but because I genuinely think there is a chance. If you go back to 16, we had a lot of players in that squad that Palace fans love. Jason Punchen, Damian Delaney, Joel Ward. But in terms of their ceiling and in terms of their hunger, they just weren't the same. You know, you've got players all over our 11 if they're fully fit. who can make a difference.

43:12And I think we've seen all the way through this season that Oliver Glasner, he has a different mentality to a lot of, well, pretty much every Palace manager that I can remember. You know, you go back to the Arsenal game midweek before the semi-final against Villa. You put a strong team out. We played very hard in that game. We got a 2-2 draw. Even back to Sunday at Spurs, obviously there's still a week to go, but we put pretty much a full-strength team out and just blew them away. Now, you could argue that that's a risk and reward thing, but his whole mentality is we don't rotate we try and win every single game and that is I mean I'm not trying to come back to Roy Hodgson just for the sake of it if we'd still had Roy Hodgson in charge he'd have made 11 changes and no Palace fan would necessarily have said that's the wrong thing to do but Oliver Glasner's whole mentality is basically trying to turn us into a club with a better mentality and that gives me hope going into this game What you've just said there I mean if you win the cup final this team is going to be the greatest team in Crystal Palace's history But in terms of what you've just said there about teams of the past, I said this, and I'm not a Crystal Palace fan, so who am I to tell you what to think?

44:17Depends what you say, doesn't it? Do you think this is the best team you've had in the Premier League? You've got the best individuals? Because we were looking at it compared to teams who'd been in cup finals, and we felt that was the case. Well, I think you have to look at the arc of the last 12, 13 years. Prior to this current stay in the Premier League, which started in 2013, we haven't spent more than a single year in the Premier League at once. We get relegated, we come back. And, you know, that leads to a higher level of player. But if you look through the team, Maxence Lacroix at the back, Mark Gay at the back, Dean Henderson, Daniel Munoz, Adam Wharton, Abiyah Reyes, Ismail Assar, John Felipe Mateo, these are good footballers and they're hungry and they believe that they have the ability to do it.

44:59I think also it's something that inside the Palace bubble people are aware of. If you look back to last summer, you have Jefferson Lerma and Daniel Munoz in the Copa America final with Colombia. You had Mark Gay, Dean Henderson, Abir Reyes, etc. in the final of the Euros with England. You had John Felipe Mateta getting to the Olympic final with France. None of them won it, but they all got there. And that in itself is obviously not something you can necessarily associate with Crystal Palace. But I think this group genuinely believe they can do it and will have that desire to sort of push over the line.

45:28Obviously, Man City are a top side. And if they play to their full potential, we probably will lose. but it's certainly different from 16 because the squad is just better and the mentality is far stronger. Dan I heard you on a podcast a few weeks ago that you'd been given an offer in the cup final to do something for TV and you weren't quite sure whether to stay with your mates in the crowd or do the TV what did you do? Staying with my mates genuinely the prospect of I mean look my dad is 67 and he's the reason I support Palace he's the reason I care as much about him as I do and obviously, you know, career-wise, you get into a final, you do the TV stuff, it's great, but I couldn't envisage looking at 35 ,000 Palace fans if we win and being in that sterile, I want to hug my dad, you know, so even if we lose, I won't regret it because it's what you do it for.

46:19We've never won anything before, so it's almost like the first time, obviously, we're playing City. If you ask any City fan, the Aguero goal against QPR will be above anything they achieve after because it's their past. Whoa, whoa, whoa, look at that. 13 years ago today. Leave it out. So for us... He's on the anniversary today. Anyone that celebrates... For us, if we go on and win this and I'm not able to hug my dad and my mates who I go every week, what's the point, you know? What a shame you couldn't do both. Well, they did... They said to me, unfortunately, it's TV or nothing. And I said...

46:49You couldn't do it before the game? No, apparently not. It's the whole thing all the way through. Okay. So I... You know, impossible situation. What good when you get home? LAUGHTER

47:02Right, Luke, does the FA Cup final, could it possibly salvage the season? Salvage? I mean, if you win a trophy and get in the top five, I mean, after the weekend... Yeah, well, top five. Well, I mean, Southampton away was not a pretty experience, nil-nil. That was poor, to be honest. If we start there, drawn nil-nil against arguably one of the worst teams we've ever seen in the Premier League, I think it was a bit arrogant, the team we started. There's a lot of players that haven't really been playing in the games we've been winning. So we're still unbeaten for quite a while, actually. But I thought that was poor.

47:36And then we go to... Outrageous, Ruben Dias, by the way. Yeah, I thought that was poor as well. But I feel like we've almost stumbled before the cup final. If you look at kind of a pattern of when City stumble, maybe not this season, but in the past, we tend to win after we've not done so well. I mean, we bounce back usually quite well. so I'd hope we can go to Wembley. I think it's visit 29 for myself to Wembley. So it's a bit of a contrasting experience to over there but we still want to win it. Are you worried about, because this season hasn't been normal for City so you can't win the League or the European Cup every year but you're still a top team.

48:14You haven't been there for most of the season. Does that mean there's a greater worry going into the final when you listen to Dan talk about the players that they have? Yeah, I think they're a great team but I think playing them a few weeks ago will probably help. We went 2-0 down. I think if we do that in a final, we're finished at Wembley. But we did win 5-2. So I think that will be playing in the back of their mind a bit. But I am confident for the game. I am confident for the game. I do think they've got a great team. I look at them and I think maybe the league position doesn't quite reflect it.

48:42I know they had quite a poor start, but they finished last season well. And then, obviously, the position are now kind of mid-table. But to get to the final, I thought they absolutely battered Villa as well in the semi. So they'll be looking at that and trying to replicate it. and I think they've got a great team. I mean, this isn't even a dig, but we lost to a mid-table team last year in the final. That's not a dig. That's a genuine fact. And we've got the same again. If we stumble last year, we could stumble again. It's not a dig. It's literally not a dig, factually. I can't fucking wait till we're...

49:15I can't wait for that moment. I just can't wait. It's going to come. How long? It'll be a few years. Raise your hands It's not a deal The 8th and 16th Is mid-table Palace are 13th Who wants Crystal Palace To win the cup final? That's obviously me as well Sorry I didn't put my hand Any Forest or Brighton Or Brentford fans here Would be supporting City I think Just because of the If Palace win The FA Cup Then It's a domino effect To the European places So obviously if City win And get Champions League Or Europa Whatever it is It'll drop down And you'll get like an 8th place team getting in Europe and 7th will get Europa League I was going to say just quickly the 5-2 because that was a real sliding doors day because we were 2-0 up Eze was offside to go 3-0 up by about 6 inches obviously you go 3-0 up at half time whether it's City I'm or away it doesn't really matter you're going to win the game but I was reminded of it the other day Mark Gay was banned for that and Mark Gay for us ever present captain extremely good defender and I think if you look at Oliver Glasner at half time he made a move to shore up the defence and it was something he never normally does.

50:24And he actually said afterwards, I won't be making that mistake again because it's not what we do. I was watching that game that day. I watched the whole game and he took Matata off at half-time. Yeah, he did. He played the system in the first half, which was working really well. And he sort of went backwards a little step, then he put an extra midfield player in. And it was a really strange thing to do. Well, we conceded the free kick to De Bruyne just before half-time. The momentum changed. Then he made that tactical shift. We conceded straight after half-time and it just fell apart from there.

50:49but in terms of our defensive solidarity we play three centre-backs Chris Richards, Maxence Lacroix and Mark Gay and Mark Gay is the most important of the three and I forgot that he wasn't part of the 11 that day so I'm not suggesting it's the be all and end all but certainly in terms of a 5-2 score it does change it as far as I'm concerned

51:11Let's get on to Manchester United Adam, Europa League final do you think the game's more important for Manchester United? I don't know, obviously Spurs fans will hold importance to it as well and it'll be a little bit arrogant of me to go yeah, it means more to us than it does to them but it's massive for Manchester United when you look at the financial implications as well I hate that we have to talk about winning cup finals because of the financial implications It ruins it, just to jump in there for one second it's the same to say the Champions League getting in the Champions League we have a game three days after the FA Cup final against Bournemouth at home if we win that we're likely going to get in the Champions League and there's people debating which game is more important you've got the FA Cup final you've got home game to get in the top five it's crazy isn't it Yeah it is depressing when you have to turn into an accountant based on trophies but huge day for United you know getting Champions League football the financial implications of that would make the summer a whole lot easier and Amarim's job a little bit easier as well but yeah Do you think about in terms of Amarim you just mentioned there because thinking about as quotes as well from the weekend, but you know it's going to take a long time to sort of fix United.

52:21Does this almost... Could this almost feel like you put you back 12 months in terms of the financial sort of landscape? It's like, where does he go from there if he hasn't got money in the summer to spend and really change the stamp on the squad? How much you read into them that we will have money there without Champions League football, but obviously it'd be a lot different with the Champions League football. You look at the kind of money Liverpool earned just for being in the group stages, it was astronomical and that would be massive for Manchester in the summer but I just think in terms of the mood as well we've kind of been holding on for this Europa League final going wow we're going to win that so the league form we can put the last couple of months to the side but if we lose it it would be a little bit worrying and I like to be patient I like to give managers time I also like Ruben Amrim the way he speaks about the club the job at hand I think he's spot on with most of the things he says sometimes he's almost honest to a fault But I do worry if we lose that final going into next season, the first couple of weeks, then just become massive for us.

53:19How woody are you about his comments? Because we all like our managers, to be honest, sometimes. But you've just said that, is he too honest? I said a few months ago, he said something about this is the worst Manchester United team in the Premier League. I thought that was a strange thing to say. But he said something after the game at the weekend about maybe getting a new manager. in next season if this continues? I think he's just aware of the fact of what club is that. Like you said earlier, sorry, Gary said earlier about Arteta, you're not going to get those chances to finish eighth, fifth and maybe build something in a couple of years.

53:55So I think he's just aware of the fact that he has to get it right quickly, even though he has to also go for a rebuild. If Manchester United players have an issue with him saying that it's the worst Premier League team in the club's history, then they've got a problem with themselves because I think the position of the league speaks volumes for that. Could he do things a little bit better in the league? Maybe. Would he have to sacrifice his philosophy and his culture to do that? Yes. So I'm kind of happy for him to stick by his guns. I just think if we're going to play these league games the way we are, maybe just try and use a few more young players because whilst it is all up in the air for the summer, we don't know how many players we can bring in.

54:31I think the youth could be a way out of it for United. Gary, when Amarim was in charge, We're just looking at something I think you said on stick to football. You thought Man United have a challenge for the Champions League position. They were only four points off top four. You keep having to remind yourself a little bit that the reason you make the change is because you think you've got a chance of getting to a Champions League position. But just a couple of stats here. The joint highest number of league defeats in a single season since 1963. Man Utd have failed to score in 14 Premier League games this season.

55:10Only Southampton, Everton and Leicester have not scored in more. And it's only one game more, 15. I mean, where do you with Amarillo? Is this season like a write-off and we judge it properly next season? I was just laughing. Honestly, I know some United fans, some people who are on the telly talk about United I was really angry about what's happening at the weekend. I've got to the point whereby I can't... On Sunday, I couldn't even watch it. It was on in the corner of the truck that we're sitting. I couldn't even watch it. I knew they were going to lose. And that's not right, that. So it's got to a point whereby he has got a real problem.

55:47He said after the game, didn't he, that the club are going to need to be brave and courageous in the summer. I think he's going to... I mean, look, if they don't win in the Europa League final, it's a big problem. It's a big, big problem. Because he's going to end up with the same players as next season. because what United can't afford to do is spend 50 to 100 million, which is probably what they've got, and then be able to subsidise the losses of Rashford, Sancho, Casemiro. There's one more. Anthony. So you're going to have to basically subsidise probably another 25, 30, 40 million in their wages because he doesn't want them.

56:23He won't want them next season, but they're going to have to pay for probably most of them. That's going to be the hardest part of his job is getting rid of people. And that's what I think he was saying by being brave. I think he was alluding to, you're going to have to back me. And that means spending tens of millions to get rid of the players that you've signed previously and then bring in another tens of millions of players to actually give him what he wants. And he's already identifying that he's under pressure. That's what I like about him. He will be under pressure in September, October, November if the same results are coming.

56:51He will be. There's no getting away from it because it's that bad. We've almost forgotten about it. And, you know, being honest, from what he picked up from where we were, he should have done better and the players should have done better in the last part of this season. I mean, no one expected the dramatic drop that's happened. You can't say that he shouldn't have done better, but because he's spoken with such honesty and that we know the recruitment in the club's been abhorrent in the last three, four, five years. But I thought last summer when they signed those players, when they signed De Ligt, they signed, you know, obviously, and those Zergze Magate I'm trying to think who else is Yoro I actually thought do you know something this should be a team that go and qualify for Champions League this year I think most of us thought Manchester United would finish in the Champions League I think maybe even you had them in the Champions League places what's happened I have no idea I have no idea what's happening there in respect of on the pitch in the dressing room but he needs to wipe them out he's got to the point now whereby I mean other than how can he say you don't win the Champions League you used it up in the league there's not that money you still need players to play you're talking about 8-10 players have to go they have to get they can't get they can only do that if they're in the Champions League is that what you're saying there's 3 or 4 players who will leave through being out of contract so there's 3 or 4 players just naturally will leave and then he needs to get 5 or 6 out and they're going to need to pay to get them out big money Rashford's wages now will be paid half by Manchester United so that's 180 grand a week that's 8 million pounds a year he's been paid by United I read something the other day Adam, you might know that, I know it was in the paper, but they said Casemiro's wages would go up from 350.

58:29Is that rubbish? If they qualify for the Champions League. If they're not in the Champions League, the players' wages come down by 20, 25%. No, but they're not in the Champions League. What they were saying was if they get in it, his wages go up to 45. If they come back down this year, they'll go back up 20, 25%. Yeah. You've got to look at the squad, though, and I do think whilst I don't think the position is acceptable where we are, to say that the team is ready for a manager to kind of take and just, you know, fire at the league, I think is mental. When you look at the squad, like we've got a striker that couldn't hit a barn door.

58:59No backup for him. You've got a goalkeeper that I don't think he trusts. Most of our centre-halves are picking up injuries left, right and centre. And then I went early on in September and I'm kind of going back to where I was with Manuel Lugate. I just don't think he's good enough on the ball. Again, you were talking about Zubamendi and what it could bring to Arsenal. he does some good things off the ball in terms of winning possession back but he gives possession away so much you see it against West Ham at the weekend he just fell on his arse there's no one next to him he just falls over stays on the ground and watches him score and it's like is he the player I always forget to worry even when my own club do it where you buy a player for big money who can't get in the team you're buying them off and they're happy to sell them and you watch PSG now and you go I know why they sold him we said that a lot at the time Jamie if you remember we said it about his mate De Ligt as well, yeah.

59:46I think the Lits are playing at all, man. I don't think... Yeah, look, he has done all right, yeah. Yeah, I think the Lits got... I think Lenny Yorl's a talent and I think Mazurabi's all right, but most of the business hasn't been... If we look at United and look, obviously Inanna's not done very well, but if you look at the fact they've got Yorl, Lindelof, Maguire, Martinez, De Ligt... How's Lindelof still? Right. Those five centre-halves there should be able to do a bloody good job in the Premier League. I mean, if you look at other clubs and what they're doing. Those five defenders should be.

1:00:15You've got Luke Shaw as well. You've got Maz Raui. You've got Dallow. Up top, we had, when he came in, we had Anthony, Rashford, Garnacho, Hoyland, Xerzi, Ahmad, right? There's six players that I think that if you put them in another club, I think they would do a good job. Honestly, if you had Xerzi... Well, they are doing. Some of them. My point is, for me, if you look at those six players, Anthony, if Sancho was there, was he gone by then? How do you say this every year? You do this every year, you go, you've got Rashford, you've got Sancho, you've got him. Sancho's not good enough. Look at the state of Chelsea.

1:00:50I know that, my point is though, these players, I get they're not good enough, but what Manchester United do to players, I've said it's become a graveyard for players, they're not as bad as they're showing. Now, it's a horrible performance, but if you had Garnaccio, Rashford and Ahmad and Zerksy, Hoyland, Bruno as your forward, it's not perfect, it's not amazing. to not score goals all season at that level. I'm sure that can't, that's not right. Okay, so what I'm saying is you've gone through the centre-back, you said they're good enough, you said the strikers are good enough. So why are Man United where that is 16, 17?

1:01:22Do you know something? I genuinely believe, and it's been a graveyard for every single player that's joined that club for 10 years apart from Bruno. There is not one player joined that club that's improved apart from Bruno Fernandes. And he's a standout, to be fair. He's amazing what he's doing. The rest of them, whether you go back to Di Maria, Schweinsteiger, every player that's signed has gone backwards. Why? I think we can say that That's the mystery Them players You just reeled off there That's the mystery We'd love to have them all now That's the mystery Yeah why I don't know Because that's where You look at something That's just like You can't explain it You don't even know What's happening Amory must look at it And think what's going on You have to try and think What it is Is it the coaching That's why you've got to be brave It's like We're saying Rashford's good And Anthony's good And this that and the other But we had to let them go in January Because ultimately Rashford was causing it And that's why I get Where the managers you've listed six, seven players there.

1:02:11He's had two available to him. If that at times. Ahmad's been injured for a long time at times. Garnaccio's been in and out of form. We've got rid of two. Hoyland's been available on a regular basis. We've got rid of two, though. I mean, what I'm saying is, I'm not disagreeing with him getting rid of any of them. I'm not saying they need to wipe them out, but I do genuinely believe if these players were en masse at another club, if those players were playing for Crystal Palace, they would be doing better than they are for Manchester United. Is the pressure on the club? Why? Is the pressure on the club?

1:02:39you've played for Manchester United obviously the most successful team in the club's history you support them is the pressure playing for Manchester United too much for players I mean too much for these players is it too much for them to take on this pressure where they're actually they can't express themselves they don't actually want to play it's too much for them I think it has become too much for them I think the scrutiny the criticism I think it is a lot for them it's not just players managers as well it's a lot for them it's a lot for them I think it's a lot I was pleased I'm on Times we talked about the system as well and he's still not getting results I know Europa League yeah but sure you can't just carry on doing the same thing every week it's like Gary said don't even watch games anymore at the weekend because you know they're going to lose you're expecting United to lose their next two league games I wouldn't be surprised if they drew Chelsea I mean I wouldn't be surprised Roy came in to stick to football last week he was absolutely fuming about and angry about the disgrace of the weekend and just throwing games away and to be fair you feel this I've got to a point where it's even worse than anger I don't even care about the weekend it's any much ridiculous trying to find a word find a word to explain it you think it's embarrassing just forget about it I think it's worse there's no explanation it's Man United the manager's going to be here next year is he just saying I can go for one trophy next year the one bit they make I think he's got to be able to do I think we go for four troves at the start of the year you've got to somehow play teams to win games the bit that makes me angry is the 75 ,000 people turning up that basically are watching us get beat by Wolves or watching us get beat by every West Ham I think they've gone past being bothered a bit like not bothered but embarrassed by it but they're still turning up there every single week oh I know yeah they will do they always will it's like what Mike isn't there just like a joyless culture running right through the club though you know this constant stuff that you hear every day like I've been driving in and saying if they win the Europa League they'll have a barbecue you you know like you know what I mean it's one burger each so one burger chair to vouch for the burger to be fair though if we had a parade it would be ridiculous you can't be having a parade being 17th in the league we didn't have a parade when we won the European Cup for Christ's sake so you can't win that bowl no because of the Rangers fans ruined that one but yeah I was refreshed with what Jim Ratcliffe said to you in his interview though about and maybe that's where the calmness comes from with the results in the league like the manager sorry the owner kind of came out and said he's our guy we're going to stick with him and he was aware of the amount of players he actually has available in terms of the wage bill in comparison to who's on the pitch it isn't much so I was refreshed to hear the ownership come out and kind of back him When obviously you think about Dan Ashworth leaving which is still quite a sort of big moment I think in the season it was treated as quite a big moment at the time but knowing him as I do and how sort of reliable Dan Ashworth is and trustworthy is he went with a plan I think to them that would look pretty unspectacular at the time he gave them two or three managers that basically didn't get the juices flowing and said sort of these are the people who I think need to be the first step on the rebuild of this football got a Salgate and Eddie Al yeah them type of people Graham Potter maybe say look these people will correct the culture within the club we'll get the dressing room solid you'll get good characters you'll get a good work ethic and it's the bridge that's needed to get to where we need to get to you're not going to go from where we are to basically there and looking back now maybe he was right the club just needed a period of sort of two or three years of what would be finishing fourth finishing fifth getting a really good culture getting the staff happy you mentioned about a joyless culture you know at this moment in time 200 people 300 people at risk they've not been told yet they were told two weeks ago they were at risk so there's 150 people in that club you imagine that you know going into a place whereby you're wondering whether you're going to lose your job and there's nothing they can do about that they knew they were going to do that when they came in but you imagine the feeling in that place around the players around the club.

1:06:33So you think, at the moment, he was maybe right in how he looked at it, Dan, that there is maybe a stepping stone before we get back to... Garth Southgate weren't there. No, I didn't support it at the time. They needed to be handed out. Before the man, didn't they? But I didn't support it at the time and said I didn't think it would be the right mix. But when I look now and think what's going on, it's really worrying. And if they don't win the Europa League, that means they won't have the players that he wants next season, which means they might not get in the Champions League again, which means it could just literally kick it on for another two or three years.

1:07:05It really is a worry. I'm genuinely, I said it last week, I've got a sickly feeling about this game next Wednesday. A sickly, sickly feeling. And the biggest reason I've got a sickly feeling is when I look at every single player in the Tottenham team and thank, you know, Maddison, I like Maddison, so I don't want him not to be available. But when you look at Kulisiewski, Son, Brennan Johnson, Solanke, if Maddison was there, Basuma and Saar, Romero and Van der Ven, Porro and Adoghie. He's just gone through the teams who are 16th and 17th in the league. No, no. And you think, honestly, you think they're the two best teams in the country.

1:07:33No, no. Caro, when you look at those players, like for like with United, only Bruno, in my opinion, would get into the first 11 of Spurs. I would select every single Tottenham player. I said this earlier in the season. The goalkeeper is a 50-50 split because I don't like Vakari. I'm not a fan of Anana. But honestly, Adoghi, Porro, Van de Ven Romero, Basuma Sarr Johnson Madison Solanke Kulsevsky Son I would choose every single player of Tottenham's over Manchester United next Wednesday night that's my worry Casemiro's a man on a mission though he don't let us lose no but do you know something United people of players he's on a mission for that 500 quid a week that's what he's I just feel something that's the one thing that keeps me alive the likes of like a Casemiro a Bruno they've got something in them that will step up for a one-off game that means that I think we will win.

1:08:28But if the players play as they should do, pound for pound they play, Tottenham should win that game. Flav, you in agreement with that? Yeah, yeah, 100%. This is the most confident I've been going into a big game like this in a long while. I think a lot of it's based on... That's music to my ears now. He was told the other week that Tottenham had no chance in hell of winning, weren't you, the other week? Jamie did. I don't see Tottenham, exactly what Gary said. I do think Tottenham have got better players than Man United but I just I remember when Liverpool played a Champions League final against Tottenham and the teams at the time were probably not too far away from each other but just when you I don't know just I can imagine the Man United fans there on my similar to Liverpool that mentality of we're supposed to be the supporters think they're going to win the players think they're going to win I don't I just It's a mentality It's a mentality thing OK here's an example I think if Man United went 1-0 in front I don't see how you'd find anything to come back whereas they could come back I think even if they went 1-0 down someone would do something something would happen you just when you're watching Man United play that Lyon game it was Lyon wasn't it you're not doing that we have done that we've done it on a bigger stage than that are you talking about the Ajax game well sorry I was there I was there what did you think he's got platter for two games and scored two foot yeah but you can't say we don't do it when we do We have done it.

1:09:54We have done it. You're the team that basically bottle every big game I've ever seen you play. Well, this is where it changes. I hope it does. Jamie, can I help it? You took Brentford 12 playoff attempts. You just compared Spurs to Brentford. To get qualified from the championship. It took 12 times. Everyone thought they're perennial losers. They'll never do it. And then they did it. And look where they are now. So the reason why I'm confident going into this game, and I guess it's 90 minutes, anybody can win it, right? it's all of the conversation we've just had about Manchester United. Amarim's going into that dressing room going, boys, we need to win this game because I need to get rid of half of you.

1:10:32In our dressing room, they're going, we need to win this game because this is the first major trophy. He knows he's out the door. Is he gone, even if they win? I think so, yeah. I don't think there's a world where you can keep him. But we've been having this conversation since November. Yeah, I think he is. But interestingly, you talked about Romero and Van der Ven and, you know, in that side and the fact that they get into the Man United side. When you've had them available to us, the average points per game is around, I think it's like 1.9, which would put us in fourth position. When they've been available, when they're not available is a completely different side.

1:11:10The fact that they've kind of engineered it, Postacoglu has engineered it so that we have really two amazing centre-backs available for this game, well up for it. I think we're going to surprise a few people. I think it's going to be quite comfortable. Van der Ven's hand-frooners first half. I have no logical reason why United should win it other than recent experience and history. Yeah, I agree. Can I ask a question? That's history. It's bullshit, right? No, it's not bullshit. But why? Look at Real Madrid. Will you never win anything? Look at Real Madrid in the last five years. It's not been a great team at times, but that history just takes them to it.

1:11:49Now, realistically, they should win the game. They beat us the last three games. Should win. We haven't lost since 2022. And do you know what? I think you'll be the best team on the night and I think you'll probably play really well, but we'll win. We seem to find 10 or 15-minute spells where we win games. And I think that's what will happen. It's not a history, by the way. It's about a club mentality, really. History sounds like it's nostalgic. It's not. It's a mentality of a club and a fan base that think they are going there and we're not coming out of this city until we've won. Now, that can change.

1:12:19We know that that could look stupid next Wednesday because you should, I think, on talent on the pitch. You've got better forwards. You've got better centre-halves. You've got better midfield players other than Bruno. And you should win that game. You've beat us the last three times. You've got a great record against us because you're a better team than us. And I, unfortunately, have to say that. He's getting into your head, isn't he? No, I'm not. I'm feeling mind game style. I'm sitting there thinking. It is a mentality. But Newcastle over... The big surprise this season, you should look at most, was what Newcastle did against Liverpool in the Carabao Cup because that was a big shock to me.

1:12:55I thought that morning, I am not seeing, I said to you before the game, Virgil van Dijk will lift this trophy. He 100 % will lift this trophy. I was amazed at how Newcastle did. So what you're saying about... And actually they beat Liverpool really well on the day. They played really well. What you're saying is that Tottenham are just going to go and win so easily. if it's a football match without any other sort of things you probably would I don't think we're going to win easily that was a bit tongue in cheek but I just think about if it's about energy and motivation and just Man United based on what Amarim has been saying that doesn't define us we've still had an awful season it's almost like they're not bothered whether they even win it where we're going to be obsessed they're bothered it doesn't feel like it it's massive it feels like to me that Tottenham are obsessed with winning I feel a bit sick about it honestly that it's that important to United I don't feel comfortable with it it's important because of the Champions League football.

1:13:44For us, it's important because we're going to win a European trophy. You're right. There's a different element to it, maybe, because of the fact of the consequence of not winning it with United and what that would do to the manager at the start of next season in the recruitment. But that adds to the fact that you do also... The fans want to go to win a trophy. The fans want to win a trophy. No one's talking like that. No, I know, but they understand also the consequence of not winning it is important. Yeah, I think our drive to win it for the sake of doing it, not because there's Champions League football will get us over the line.

1:14:14I hope so, Flav. I'm with you. As most people, put your hands up who wants Tottenham to win the Europa League final. Oh. Brilliant. Why does Tottenham win the Europa League final? You'd make him happy, wouldn't you? Oh, no. I can't tell you, honestly. Listen, that's it for another episode of the Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet.

1:14:49We'll be right back.