What Next For Rashford? & Ornstein’s Transfer Insights | The Overlap Fan Debate Transfer Special

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2:52understand if they did make them a mistake. Yeah, you're a Man U fan, aren't you? Yeah. I'm not blaming them for where we are. I think Marcus has let a lot of people down, really, with his attitude, and I think that's what the manager's trying to say. Here we go. This is what I've been waiting for. This is why I'm here.

3:10Hello, and welcome back to the Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet, and I'm here with my Fan Debate co-host, yeah? Is that what it is? I don't know. Scalzi and all the fans, and this is the first show of 2025. 25 so how's the weekend been how's it been going football what are you thinking erm yeah watched a lot of games on TV I suppose erm obviously the City-Chelsea game was a big game of the week and a little bit disappointed with Chelsea if I was honest I thought City would er to have a real go at and look they started okay but didn't really follow it up so good win for City you're supposed to ask me what my lad's scoring oh son

3:52so Jamie your lad's good oh yeah I was there so I was there in the AFL Wigan game yes so great to get the first career goal now he's only got three more to go to beat me he'll probably do that this season hopefully fingers crossed are they proper goals or own goals well I mean own goals you put them together we're in double figures but no I'm sure he'll get a couple of them as well before his career finishes but Luke Yeah. Oh, yeah, he's flexing. It's quiz time for you. I mean, what kit's that? What am I thinking? I'm going to see that kit. You're thinking of the 1999 kit. That's 1999. Well, no, this is the away kit this year.

4:28Was that the one where the goalie, Luke Weaver? Yeah, yeah. Was that that one, Wembley? Yeah. Dick off. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's that kit, isn't it? So you've got 90 seconds. Yeah. Yeah. To get as many questions right as you can on your beloved city. Lee got 10 correct answers last week. Luke do you think you can beat that? Nah Are you nervous or what are you feeling? I'm content we'll see I've not got anything to be nervous about but I'll probably mess it up Well basically you've got 90 seconds with a maximum of 15 questions in that time or questions on Manchester City so Scolese's at the ready with the stopwatch right here we go Swansea City conceded two goals in August 2011 to a man making his City debut Liam and Noel Gallagher was City's home and away shirt for a famous 1994 enemy cover shoot.

5:17Who were the shirt sponsors? Eidos. No. Who scored more Premier League goals for Manchester City? Sibierski, Alano or Jovacic? Alano. Alano, yes. Squad number 23 has not been used since 2003 in memory of which former player? Mark Vivian Fowler. Name the four Manchester City managers not to hail from the British Isles. Pep Guardiola, Manuel Pellegrini, Roberto Mancini, Sven Gore and Eriksson. Manchester City face how many charges for alleged breaches of Premier League financials? Two, five or 115? 115, mate. City won their first major trophy in 34 years, lifting the 2011 FA Cup. Who scored the only goal?

5:56Yaya Torre. City's last game at Main Road was a 1-0 defeat to which current Premier League team? Crystal Palace. No. Which manager had the shortest reign of any City boss after 33 days? Even I know that one. Alan, I don't know. Steve Koppel. How many competition trophies has Kyle Walker lifted during his Manchester City career? Different competitions. Yeah. Six? Six? Yeah, Club World Cup. No, how many trophies? In total, 17. Yeah. Which Italian assisted Sergio Aguero's... Mario Balotelli. Which player has made the most Premier League appearance for Man City?

6:37Oh. I've started somewhere. Go on, you can have that one, go on. He's made the most appearances for us. He's a legend, absolute legend. David Silva. Yes. Nine, correct. What do you mean, yes? The other fellow got ten. Be him, look at that. City United. Also, I got robbed on one. I don't care, mate. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care, mate. Don't bow me. All of your answers were Balotelli, weren't they? All of my answers were Balotelli. We were all Balotelli. I don't speak third place, mate. Get up the leaderboard.

7:15Right, let's get a catch-up now with the supporters, but not just the supporters. We've actually got David Ornstein in as well. There he is. And welcome back, David. And the first one I want to ask you about is, you've seen a little back and forth over the weekend with Fabrizio, your arch-nemesis. Is there a rivalry there? Colleague. Oh, colleague. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, really believe that one. about a potential transfer of Naipa into Man City, but he could be off to Arsenal. Come on, give us the info. Any feedback? He's a player who's been looked at by loads of the top clubs. 18-year-old midfielder at Rosenborg, Norway Youth International.

7:59And Arsenal have been working on a deal to try and bring him in. But others have been exploring it as well. Girona, who are part of the City group. Man City are not signing him. And then there's others too. There's been suggestions of Aston Villa liking him, other teams on the continent. So he's a player that we do expect to move by the deadline and has a really promising future. But the situation is still open. There are no agreements in place. And his decision on his future, which is the most important thing, is yet to be made. So that's one that is worth keeping an eye on before the deadline.

8:34What do you make of this January transfer window? We don't feel like we've had a real standout transfer. Is there any business that sort of shocked you up until now? And also, should everybody in this room be excited about what's going to happen in the last few days? Do you expect anything big to happen? Well, there's been a big one on the continent, Cavic, Velja from Napoli to PSG. But in the Premier League, it's been relatively low-key so far. That doesn't mean that the work hasn't been going on to try and make things happen. It's probably been busier than ever behind the scenes, especially with clubs needing to trade in this PSR world.

9:09and the stakes being higher for all of them. But in terms of coming to fruition and materialising, that might just happen in the final couple of days. The deadline's on the 3rd this year, a Monday, so they've got a tiny bit more time. And inevitably, you know, things will develop. I think quite a lot will happen, which means it could be quite chaotic in those final few days. I do think there'll be some late activity around, say, Man United and Chelsea, not necessarily together, because a lot of people have talked about Nkunku, Garnaccio, but there's also possible... You mean between the two clubs, not specifically just doing their own deals?

9:51Because there have been conversations between those clubs, but it doesn't mean that it will end up that way. There's interest in Nkunku from Bayern Munich, which has been reported before, so it doesn't mean it will necessarily go the way it's been going so far. But there are situations that kind of have to come to a head. They don't have to, but you would expect them to, like Marcus Rashford. What about a striker for Arsenal, which Mikel Arteta has been so clear that he wants? Can Tottenham do any more, given their current predicament? So there are big teams that kind of you expect to be busy.

10:29Don't forget, it's just four months until the summer window. So clubs are going to be really careful about the amount they may shell out, whether it be a permanent transfer or a loan fee, the salary involved when you know that it's not too far from being able to have a bigger market with more opportunities. But yeah, that's a waffly answer to say there will be activity, but many of us don't know exactly what that is just yet. Scolzi, January transfer window. Anything that was like sort of stands out for you for Manchester United in the past when you were a player? And also, right now, with Man United, there's talk, I think, of maybe trying to get a left wing back in now.

11:06What David just said there, would you almost be saying, get to the end of the season and maybe get who you really want, because there's not maybe that much available right now? Yeah, I think that's a key point in January, just for now. Because you could take people who you think might do all right, but are they really the ones, the top targets? but I think Man Utd have done that for such a long time on making bad decisions that I don't think there's any point in rushing into that now. I think as far as January signings, I'm so good or bad. I always think of Patrice Everton, which at the time, it didn't look great.

11:38I think he played at Manchester City, it was his debut, he had an absolute nightmare. Was him and Vidic in the same window? Yeah, they were. I think they came together. I can't remember if Vidic played in that game. I'm pretty sure he didn't. I can't remember if Henrik Larsson He was in the January window as well. He was, wasn't he? But I know he didn't score loads of goals, but he had a real impact because we were struggling at centre-four. In training especially, when you see how far you think, OK, he was coming to the end of his career a little bit, but you think how good would he have been five or six years ago, what he did at Celtic and other clubs.

12:10Didn't you come back in the January transfer window? Yeah, I did, actually, yeah. Not bad. Not a bad one. We got Fernando Torres. That was January, wasn't it? Thank you very much. Yeah. What was that? That went down well, didn't it? 2011, yeah, with Andy Carroll going from Newcastle to Liverpool to replace Torres. Suarez as well. That window was the only one that I can remember a really good January signing of Luis Suarez from Ajax to Liverpool. There's been Arshaven deadline day to Arsenal. Van Dijk. Van Dijk was a good one. The summer, it was meant to happen in January. Can you remember many good signings in January?

12:46Jelovic. Jelovic was unbelievable for a few months. It's Van der Vaart. Van der Vaart's got to be a question. He's going to make you cry, mate, with that goal in 2012. Who? Edin Dzeka. He was laughing at Edin Dzeka. Yellevitchin. I want to come over you in a scrap. We've just touched on Manchester United. Gareth, I want to come to you because Liverpool are in a great position in all competitions, but we still certainly, if you go online and social media, there's still Liverpool fans tearing their hair out that they haven't made a sign, obviously, in the summer, really, or in this January transfer window.

13:17Where are you with Liverpool right now? Now, do you think that could come back to haunt us? Possibly, because, you know, you look at last season, and we were in a very similar position, weren't we, at this stage? And then obviously ran out of steam, got injuries, ended up not winning the thing. This season, I would say we're in a stronger position, obviously, but I would still love us to do some business. I would still love to see maybe someone come in at left-back, maybe someone come in another body in midfield. But what I would say about transfers is I never think there's any nuance at all about the debate around them.

13:51So, you know, I think fans just say, or a lot of fans would just say, bye players. And it's like, well, if they're looking at Liverpool right now and say, like, I'd love another defensive midfielder, but Gravenberg's been unbelievable, played almost every minute for Liverpool in the games that matter. So a good defensive midfielder from elsewhere in Europe is going to look at that and go, I'm not going to get a game. Exactly. And I think fans never talk about that side of things enough. There's a bit of a shiny new player syndrome about new players. But equally, since slots come in, as you say, nothing's happened really.

14:23We've got Keiser, a bit of a cut-price deal really. We've got the goalkeeper from Valencia coming for next season, which doesn't sate anyone's appetite for transfers because you've got to wait. So there is this, as you say, it's very much online, I would say, though. When I go to the match, when I go to the pub after a match, before a match, whatever, I don't feel like everyone's doing it there. Everyone's just enjoying the game and enjoying how well we're playing. But online, it's everywhere. You know, there's this FSG hashtag and there's a demand for transfers as though that's the only way you win.

14:56And we've proved that it's not the only way you win. And, you know, the Nets... Like Man United, I think, are top for Nets spend the last few years. How's that worked out? Do you know what I mean? So transfers aren't the only answer, are they? But I think a lot of people treat it as though they are. It's coaching your way out of problem as well, isn't it? Like, you know, sometimes signing players, that can be the solution. But if Graven Burch was mentioned there, I think it's a great example, they didn't sign a player. Arna Slott's brilliance solved an issue. So Chelsea fans at the moment are going, we need to sign players.

15:26That's the last thing we need. Surely if this manager is capable, he'll be able to find the solution within the players that are already there and ultimately coach a way out of a problem. Yeah, I'm a big believer in that. Listen, we all get excited by transfers and we always want to see our team improve. and sometimes when we talk about a coach, I almost think sometimes a coach's role is not almost just buying players, it's actually improving the players that he inherited. So when you actually look at slots, Gravenberch looks a different player, Luis Diaz looks a different player, Gachpo looks a different player, so he's had an influence there.

16:03So these are players that were, some of them bought 18 months ago, but they look completely different players. But there's no doubt the fact Liverpool haven't bought anyone this window, didn't really buy anyone in the summer. There must be a big pot of money there to buy whoever they want maybe next summer. Yeah, because... David, he... See, I got left as well, didn't he? Is there anyone... You probably know better than us. What areas are Liverpool looking at? Are they looking at this January window or are they looking more in the summer? I'm not aware of Liverpool making moves in this market and it's really refreshing to hear somebody speaking like that about transfers as a whole and the insatiable appetite of social media.

16:40and it gets incredibly toxic at pretty much every club and disturbing at times as well. It's become a sport within the sport and many seem to care far more about the transfers than the actual football with no care about the ramifications and the pressure it seems to put on clubs which in many cases does permeate inside the club or occasionally into the stadium and is just unhealthy. The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results-driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead.

17:26No rigid long-term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com. Post a job for free and get started today. It's almost fall, and that means Nordstrom has the best fall fashion under$200. Not only do they have the best trends like trench coats, suede jackets, but they also have the best brands like Urban Outfitters, Madewell, Sporty and Rich, and obviously don't forget beauty. They have Anastasia Beverly Hills, Beauty Blender, Kosas, And Nordstrom makes it so easy to get what you need and add it quickly into your daily routine.

18:09They have fast delivery and risk-free shopping. You can buy online, pick up today, or pick up tomorrow for a wider selection. Or you can pick curbside at Nordstrom stores and Nordstrom Rack. Both options are quick and convenient. Nordstrom also has two-day shipping and next-day options, so you can get all of your items even faster. And if you need a little extra help, Nordstrom has stylists for free and their experts will create looks and match your style with your budget. Shop now in stores at Nordstrom.com or download the Nordstrom app. A mochi moment from Tara, who writes, For years, all my doctor said was eat less and move more, which never worked.

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19:53James, Arsenal fan, great to have you back. You are the team right now, I think it was spoken about, or who's probably fan base, are demanding a sign, and probably more than anyone, in the attacking third. I mean, is it specifically about a number nine and a striker, or is it just a great attacking player? I think they came into the season an attacker-like, to be honest. They let a number of attacking players go. Smith Rowe, Nketiah, Rhys Nelson all went out the door. There wasn't really an obvious replacement for any of those guys. They've lost Saka, which is massive. the productivity he brings is huge.

20:27Jesus looked like he was coming back to form and now he's gone the rest of the season. I think they definitely need to do something and I would be looking more at the centre-forward than the wide areas because they beat Wolves at the weekend in spite of everything, great result. But when that full-time whistle blew, Kai Havertz, he collapsed effectively. He plays so many games, so many minutes. As an Arsenal fan, I've been so impressed and surprised by how hard he's worked and how physical he's been. But he can't keep it up and there's almost no alternative within the squad. So they've got to get something done.

21:00When you say get someone done, it's an interesting one in January because you think of who's available and you get to a situation where you're actually just buying someone almost for an 18-month period in some ways because in the summer you want to get the real guy that you need. Do you think it's a case of you'd rather wait to get the actual one that you want or do you think you're in such a situation, delicate situation in terms of the title injuries? that they just have to sign somebody. That is such a tough decision. And one of the issues at Arsenal is the guy whose job it was to make those decisions was Edu, the sporting director, to balance the needs of the team with the long-term plan.

21:37The guy who stepped into the role, Jason Ato, he was his understudy. Now he's there on an interim basis. And it's basically the most difficult job interview you could ever have. What do Arsenal do? Do they hold fire, wait for a Benjamin Sesko or try for an Alexander Izak? or do they find a short-term solution? And I think maybe the best answer is to sort of try and strike a balance. I think of the Leandro Trossard signing a couple of years ago. That was a January signing that was really effective, actually. He came in, he's played 100 times for Arsenal. I think he's, for goals and assists, he's on about 40 from 100 games.

22:11It's really, really good. He was a proven Premier League player, not massive money, not necessarily an obvious starter, but someone who made the squad a lot better. I wonder if there's someone out there in the Premier League who fits that build, maybe. You need a centre-forward, though, don't you? I remember we did this, started this evening, looking at the Arsenal squad and thinking, centre-forward. They definitely need a centre-forward. How do you expect to win a league without a centre-forward? Because even the ones you're talking about, Trosser's not a centre-forward. Havertz, he's not an out-and-out centre-forward.

22:44Jesus, you said, came back into form and got injured. Again, is he an out-and-out centre-forward? I think it's very difficult to win any kind of competition, especially big league, without a centre-forward. And I don't mean just one, maybe even two or three. Well, I mean, you could make the argument that Nketiah was a centre-forward, Balogun was a centre-forward, they both went out and none have come in. So Arsenal are definitely short in that position. I think Kai's done well. He's got 14 goals all-capes. I'm not saying he didn't do well, I'm just saying he's not. When I look at him, I don't think, wow, there's a brilliant centre-forward.

23:14I hear you, but I think in terms of what Mikel Arteta asked from his centre forward, it's a very complete package. Yeah, there's all this false nine Spanish stuff. Yeah, you're not having it, are you? No. But I think he does bring a lot of that. But I think the category of players who would be better than him and who would offer more is small. And those players being available now in January and wanting to move and come to Arsenal right now, I don't know, I mean, I think you're scratching around. Oh, you are now. I'm just saying I think the mistake was made last pre-season yeah I wouldn't argue with that and I think now that dilemma they've got is what do we do it's not like they're five points clear at the top of the table and it's like we're pushing for the league it's looking like in the league it might not be their year so how big do you go they've got other competitions still in the Champions League they're going really well in that I think they should bring in someone who can provide competition and cover and if it means they have to wait to get the guy I personally would be alright with that Are you putting that on the manager or the club?

24:14Because I look at the business that you did in the summer and I look at the midfield player you signed and I wasn't quite sure why or where he was going to fit in or where he was going to play. Is the fan base sort of frustrated that there's not more funds for Arteta or that Arteta not wasted the funds but should have probably spent it more on attacking players rather than another defender and a central midfield player? Listen, Arsenal have had their issue with the Cronkies over the years but I don't think you can complain about the money that's been spent there. Like, you know, if you look at the last five-year period, bringing people like Declan Rice and even what they paid for Havers was a massive amount of money.

24:48They've done a lot of business, brought a lot of players in. I think that there's maybe a stylistic question about the players they recruited and the areas of the pitch. I mean, when you look at Mikel Arteta and the spending the club have done under him, the amount of money he's spent on goalkeepers, defenders, holding midfielders, massively outstrips what he's spent on attackers. And that's been a decision, right? He's built the team from the back, but I think we're seeing a bit of a shortfall there now. And that attacking third is in pretty urgent need of some additions. James, what about the red card?

25:20We can't not ask you about the red card. Everyone's had their view and you're the only one who hasn't. I mean, I thought it was crazy. I've got to say, you know, you watch a lot of football. It was a cynical foul, yellow card all day long. I mean, as people who've played the game, I'd be interested in what you made of it. I agree with what I said. Cynical foul, yellow card. But what really drove me mad is obviously the referee's given it on the pitch, Michael Oliver's given it on the pitch, but the video review is there to correct decisions that are wrong. And to me, that was a clear and obvious error.

25:53And I was incredibly frustrated seeing that stand. And, you know, we've been on the wrong end of a few decisions this year which have been debated. What's interesting about this one is I haven't really heard any debate. Yeah, I agree with you. It just felt strange, didn't it? It's just a little trip, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah. referees are horrendous though at the moment I don't think enough is made of it how bad the referees are I think enough is made of it because there seems to be like this this kind of people rush less respect referees and all this kind of stuff but they are horrendous they've got VAR to help them out they're the highest paid they've ever been they're full time now they have all these training things that you and Gary go and do at the start of the season with them and nothing ever seems to change in terms of the decisions that they're making like they are just horrendous do you think it's worse now because I sometimes think we forget about what it was like in the past and we always think right now is the worst I think it is because especially when you consider like everything that I just said in terms of you know they're all full time now they're all you know just working at being a referee and then you look at it they've got the help and the video assistance I remember back in the day it'd be you'd know one or two referees and you'd be like oh my god we've got him today but generally speaking most of them were okay and you could understand if they did make a mistake yeah you're a man you fan aren't you I'm not blaming them for where we are we deserve to be talking about in the past yeah you've had them all sewn up that's what you like to say to make yourself feel better but they are they are really bad we import refs we don't import refs but we import players I mean we have the best players in the world playing in our league but I'm not being funny the English refs refs from out they're not the best in the world so why aren't we getting the best refs in the world well it'll come from the directives though yeah the thing that needs to change for me is VAR protects the refs.

27:36It never says this is wrong. It says, oh, you have a look. We think you're right. And there's been way too many times this season, especially where they've just gone, clearly a wrong decision, but we'll back you. Just don't get it. I think it would do, like, PGMOL a massive favour if, for example, with this Lewis Scully sending off, if they'd come out and said and owned it and been like, that was a mistake. We got it wrong. But it feels like every time they just double down and it feels a bit like we're being gaslit, You get Dermot Gallagher on a Monday on Ref Watch basically saying every decision's right, even though everyone's said it's wrong.

28:10It's there going, no, it's the right decision. Or I can understand why he's giving... It's not about understanding. You've got more tools than you've ever had and you're making worse mistakes. We had a penalty on Saturday where the lads basically had a game of basketball and the ref's looking at it going for about six minutes. I don't know. And you're like, one look is a handball, you know what I mean? Mistakes are human, aren't they? They're human beings. Players are making mistakes out on that pitch every single day. But I think it's about accountability and responsibility and owning it when you get it wrong.

28:40And I think that's somewhere they really need to agree. The worst thing is players react to it, as they should when a horrendous decision, and they're getting booked and sent. It's like, what else do you expect them to do when you're making such a howler of a decision? Sometimes they're stood right in front of it. Well, Adam, let's get back to the transfer window with Manchester United. They ain't signing anyone, let's move. Where are you with Amarun right now? And this system, he's going to be looking to buy players for the system. It looks like they're looking at a left wing back. I've seen all the names as well.

29:10I'm still... I like the manager and I like how well-spoken he is. I think he's made a few mistakes in games sometimes with some of his substitutions and things like that. But I think he's trying to learn as much as possible from the squad that he has at his disposal. Is that squad the worst in Manchester United's history? The table doesn't lie, does it? I think that's how you have to... I didn't agree with you when you said he was wrong for saying that. I thought it was right to say that. And I think I was glad Bruno Fernandes came out the other day and was like, well, if you look at the league table, we are the worst team, definitely in the Premier League era, which kind of covers my age range, really.

29:46So they're the worst team that I've seen. And, you know, it doesn't look like we're going to finish anywhere above 10th. So I'd like to say yes, but that has to be the challenge for them. And I think he's been trying to do that with some of the things he says in press conferences, some of the things that he says in interviews where he's trying to lay down the gauntlet to these boys and let them know that, look at the moment, you're playing for Man United, but you're not performing and you're not going anywhere fast. Trying to give them a wake-up call. Sorry for interrupting. You know what he said yesterday about Rashford, about he'd rather play the kit man or goalkeeping coach and stuff like that?

30:18Now, we're in the media, we're all part of it, and it's great, these great quotes, and it makes great headlines. So for me, I'm looking at it, I think, this is great, but if he was my manager, Yeah, if that was the Liverpool manager, I'd be thinking, oh, I'd want them to keep a lid on that a little bit. I don't want that to sort of blow. Do you understand? Yeah, I think he's honest to a fault sometimes. And I think if you're trying to get rid of the player, probably don't come out and say that because other clubs are going to look at it and go, well, we won't give you more percentage towards the wages or we won't give you a bigger transfer fee.

30:50So I think he was a little bit honest to a fault with that one. But I also kind of understand the situation he'd been put in with that because he's coming as a new manager at a club. I'm a big fan of Marcus Rashford and I'd rather return it around at United, but you come in as manager, you're trying to get a team, you're trying to change the culture and you've got one of your key players saying, my future lies elsewhere or my challenge is that. What else do you expect him to do? He can't just chuck you in the team if that's your mindset and the way you're thinking and what kind of message does that send to the other players if you're picking him for a squad and he doesn't want to be there.

31:23So I think it's the right thing to do, but I'd rather, If you're trying to get rid of him and we have got all these PSR issues and stuff, probably don't say that. I think Marcus has let a lot of people down, really, with his attitude. And I think that's what the manager's trying to say. As you think of the young players coming through the team, you think, actually, they're looking up to people like Marcus now. He's 26, 27 years of age and he's clearly not training properly. He's not living his life properly. They're the example that these people should look at. I think Marcus, look, I remember years ago when I told the manager I didn't want to play in the Arsenal game, the cup game, and the meeting we had afterwards, two or three days afterwards, and I thought, I'm going to get a right bollock here.

32:07He said to me, the worst thing you did is let your teammates down. And that really stuck with me, because I wasn't really thinking about that. And now I think Marcus Strashford, he's doing exactly the same. okay he's not refusing to play but in the way he's behaving and the way he's training in a way he's saying I don't want to be involved with these so I think the fact of letting your teammates down in that dressing room he should be banished from the dressing room really if he's in and around that and young people are seeing that as an example the sooner he's gone the better I get frustrated a bit Rastri just the amount we talk about him but we are talking about him and I'm going to ask you a question about him now he's a player that it baffles me that he gets talked about as like he's on the move and I'll read in a paper but it'll say Barcelona, remember, didn't pay a shame.

32:51I know he's got a big PR thing behind and Marcus Rashford. It just feels like this big machine around that's just pumping these stories out about him, about where he's going to go. Is the realistic, real interest in Marcus Rashford and some of the biggest clubs in Europe? Yeah, it is a very tricky situation and it does seem that that relationship is broken. There's also a lot of different... David, what's tricky about it? Well, he's on a massive contract. He's a Manchester United player through and through, born and bred. He doesn't want to be now, does he? Well, it wasn't sort of him that initiated this process.

33:29Well, by his behaviour it is. It sounds like you're part of the PR. No, no. By his behaviour and the way he's acting, then first couple of games he played for Amarim, it didn't bother his arse. He's almost telling you. So just for the balance, not PR. Balance. When you speak to people around United, they criticise the training and Ruben Amaring clearly has taken a dim view on that. And when you speak to people around Marcus Rashford, they say he's training really well. Who do you believe they're the manager who's watching the training or his PR company who don't watch the training? I don't know because I'm not privy to the actual evidence on either side.

34:05But to answer your specific question, there is interest in him because of his quality that we've seen in the past. And that's why conversations have taken place with the likes of AC Milan, Borussia Dortmund, I think Juventus early on. There was some interest from the Premier League, but I think his decision was that he wanted to go abroad if he's going to move. And his preference is Barcelona. But Barcelona is extremely difficult financially. When you look at their squad, you ask yourself, how much do they need a player like Marcus Rashford? The door has never been closed at United because he's under contract until 2028.

34:41And so that's why I think some of these comments suggesting available for selection and no issue between him and the coach is because both sides know they might have to go back together. Is this interest still there? It seems like it's all... Right now, I don't know of anything being close. and so it brings you back to what we touched upon right at the start when you're thinking about, say, Nkunku, Garnaccio and certain other situations in the market where it could be a deadline day scramble. The biggest problem in the Rashford situation is the finances involved. I was going to say, what do United want?

35:19Because definitely, if he was more affordable, I think he probably would have made the move by now. Maybe that's one of the factors that United want. move or a a loan move most likely just because it's 2028 and when somebody's not playing so what would they want then would they want like half his wages I think initially they would have wanted 100 % of his wages covered in excess of £325 ,000 a week but as the market draws towards a close you're going to you know if you desperately want him out you're going to accept lower then the club that's taking him can as they get desperate with their own footballing circumstances or injuries say actually we can dedicate a bit more money to this or it's looking even tighter.

36:00We're there for him, but we can't even dedicate what we were initially thinking. And then you ask Marcus Rashford, are you willing to take a haircut on your salary? Most players wouldn't because they've signed their contracts and it's their prerogative. How much do you want to get playing elsewhere? How much do you want to work your way back into the plans at Man United? Is that door truly open for you to work your way back in? It's a complete mess and I can't predict the outcome I think it would be surprising if something can't be resolved for him to play the second half of the season elsewhere but because of the finances involved and the complications there's no guarantee he'll move I think he's gonna have massive regrets you know I genuinely think he's gonna have some I agree it's like I don't doubt his love for the club he's obviously someone that's spent a lot of time at the club fan of the club and all those kind of things and maybe he has felt like a scapegoat over the last couple of years but what we're seeing at the moment is just self-sabotage like he's the only one that's he's not going to get if these clubs don't come in for you then what if you're still at Manchester United to the end of the season then who's going to come in for you in a summer do you think he's sort of fallen out of love with football a little bit because it shunned so bright so early in his career so much attention around him a lot of it negative in the media that he kind of he's been in the game for so young still so long still so young do you think he's kind of falling out of love a little.

37:20Well, he's said that he still loves football. He still loves playing football. And I have no doubt. He doesn't look like it, does he? Yeah, he doesn't look like it. The last three years. The manager, he's interested in wanting to play. He's not played well for three years and we're still talking about him. That's your point. Well, he scored 30 goals. You know what? Period. When I said... He's what? He scored 30 goals. Three years? No, a couple of seasons ago. Yeah, oh yeah, I know, yeah. Which is why we're talking about. I think it's a good point you make. He doesn't look like he wants to play football.

37:49And I don't know if he thinks going to another club all of a sudden he's just going to get it back like that. There's no guarantee that that will happen. The thing that frustrates me about him is that we talk about him as much as we talk about Wayne Rooney. And the level of players are completely different levels. And a lot of it, and I must say this, because we're all in the game, the media game, and he's not just the only one. A lot of these top footballers now have these PR machines around them and it's just constant media stuff getting pumped out. I just think it's very simple you know if I was if I knew Michael I'd just say listen go into training be early do you train give absolutely there's nothing else there's no other answer to all these games and he said this and the agent said that and Amaran said this and all this it's all bullshit just go in and train really hard that's it there's no secret and give absolutely everything and all this feeding you know you've just said the Bolsman scoring 30 goals there straight away as soon as scores he said something now I'm not saying you're here to defend and you've given both sides a hand but I know you're getting information from all this thing did you ever have people who are these people who are these players who are they I only had my dad these people just go in and pray and give it everything for Man United getting paid 300 grand a week all the rest of it just the manager wouldn't want him to you know what you do that for your own sanity because you think even if I leave I know I've done it in the right way I've been in every day I've still got a chance to play for Man United.

39:18Unbelievable. I know we're not very good, but still, the last six months of season. There's a question about whether Amorim's handling this issue correctly. I think he absolutely is because he's true and he's honestly going to see that vision realised for United. It reminds me a little bit of what Artessa did at Arsenal right at the beginning about Guendouzi, Aubameyang especially, and Ozil. They just weren't right. Class players, elite players for Arsenal at the time, maybe Guendouzi aside, but they did the right thing by forcing them out the football club because the vision was what was important.

39:49I think I'm saying the same thing from Amarim. The trouble Amarim's got though, it's not just three of them. You could be talking about 30, 40. The market's uncertain. Revenue's tied and hiring on hold. That's why results driven companies are using Upwork to keep work moving. Go to Upwork.com today and start hiring proven freelance talent fast. No bulky overhead. No rigid long term contracts. Just the right expert right when you need them. Work smarter and faster with Upwork. Go to Upwork.com now and find your freelance expert. That's U-P-W-O-R-K dot com. Post a job for free and get started today.

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41:34Greg, listen, another person who was disappointed at the weekend. Is this a blip, this result of Bombas? Is there a worry that this European journey that you're probably getting ready for for next season could be coming to a halt? I think it was, looking back, it was probably much needed. You know, we've been flying out. We've had an incredible winter since the last time we've been on and improved places again. But Bournemouth are an excellent team and I think we were a bit naive at the weekend. It showed we've got one of the best defences in the league and we just opened up for them. I think it shows that Bournemouth are the real deal, to be honest.

42:14Put a bit of spotlight on them instead of us for a few weeks and we'll see what happens. But yeah, it was disappointing, but we're third in the league and we're still third after a result like that. The position you find yourselves in, it's going to be difficult to be there in that position maybe next season or in, say, two or three years' time. Do you think it's imperative that you need to buy someone right now to try and help you to get over the line because as I said to be in this position again in the next three or four years might be difficult or do you think it's a case of actually just keeping what we've got don't sort of bring someone in to ruin the apple cart?

42:50Well for the first time since we've come back up we're in a position now where in January we can plan for a Premier League season next season so we've got Edu behind the scenes although he's not officially with us yet and they're planning so that excites me because Did he leave Arsenal to go to Forrest? Of course he did He's gone the whole project. Hold on, the whole project. Why would you say it like that? It's Olympiakos. We're all thinking it. You don't leave Arsenal. It's Olympiakos in everybody. Oh, it's a big... No, it's mainly... You'll have an old set of balls. It shows the ambition. You'll have an old set of balls, actually.

43:24Yeah. The biggest two signings that we've done this winter is obviously Murillo and Wood getting them tied down for long-term deals, because everyone's talking about Murillo, his price tag's gone up and up. How old is Chris Wood? 33, I believe. They gave him a two-year deal, didn't they? Yeah. But, I mean, he's deserved it. He's proven that he needed it. Unfortunately, they both probably had the poorest games since they played for us on Saturday after their big deals. So we will be looking at people, of course, who we sign players. That's what Forrest do. That's what you do. I mean, usually a team who've been criticised for, you know, panicking or doing crazy things in the transfer market, and I never thought I'd see Manchester City do it.

44:08But that's what they've done in the January transfer market, haven't they? They're acting like a team who are fighting relegation. I think we needed to, though. If you look at... I read a piece in The Athletic, I don't know if it was David, that wrote it and it basically said that the people high up at City did not expect us to win the league last year. Pep's contract was coming to end. He would have been finishing at the end of this season and he's got two more after this season. You're spinning this as a positive. So what I'm saying is it's a car crash this season. Basically, last year, you could argue we got away with it.

44:35We won a fourth league tout in a row. It's outrageous, as we know. But we almost got away with it. We didn't spend almost anything in the summer, which obviously we've spent years gone by. But that was a mistake. Rodri gets injured, everything goes wrong. And obviously this season, we're fourth in the league. We've done a little bit better recently. But the amount of losses we had, the amount of points we dropped, has found us absolutely nowhere near Liverpool. Hopefully we'll get top four. But yeah, we brought in three players. it's thankfully for me I was glad we've gone for the strategy we've you're just going to say we've thrown money at the wall I know that but we've gone for the strategy of when we sign a Bernardo Silva you know these players we brought in the past no one can say they knew everything about him and we've signed three players here yes the young Marmouche has been absolutely on fire in the Bundesliga this season so he's obviously a bit more well known but the other two defenders Rice, Rhys, Webner What did you think about what happened at the weekend I felt really I don't know how everybody else felt Man City, when I watch Man City play, I don't want them to win because they're rivals of Liverpool.

45:33But I felt really uncomfortable watching that lad play centre. I felt really sorry for him. He's 20. He's from Uzbekistan. He doesn't speak a word of English. I think it was stupid to put him in the team, but we almost didn't have any other options because, as you know, we've got Club Brugia. John Stones was stubborn. He can't play because these guys haven't been registered for the Champions League. Stones is a bit iffy. If he plays that game, gets injured, we don't have any centre-backs for the Champions League. Yeah, listen, I... And we've got to prioritise that. I heard Pep say that after the game, and I didn't think about the John Stones, but could he have put, like, Rico Lewis full-back and Gavari all centre-back?

46:05And I'm not just saying it to be clever after the event. If the lad can't speak English, he's only had a week's training, and you're playing Chelsea, one of the top teams in the league as well. It just felt like, oh, I just... The first five minutes was a disaster. He obviously gave away a goal, got booked, gave away a free kick, but I think after that, I think he did pretty well. And I know you're going to... That's because he hid after that. I don't think he did hide. he was sliding to tackles with Cole Palmer he's a bit of a meathead and at the end of the day he's had a baptism of fire there he's going to learn I mean he can't have almost now that's out the window he's had probably the best introduction for him personally he's going to learn from that and it can't really get worse than that five minutes so I think he's going to be a great player and yeah that game on Wednesday now is making me nervous but we should have already been knocked out in my opinion the way we've played I was saying just then it was interesting because I've seen Pep say on Wednesday it's a final it is I think most people would expect Man City to beat Bruges at home one beating in 20 they are by the way yeah yeah okay fair enough but what I would say is are you worried about not being in the competition next season is that in the back of your mind I don't I think after the Chelsea I'm not saying we're guaranteed to get top four now after the Chelsea game I'm a lot more confident of getting in top four even after the run we've had we've only won a couple lately and we're still in the top four so I think we probably will get top four but it's the worry of missing out on Champions League football from January onwards.

47:30It would be absolutely embarrassing if we lost that game. We've got eight points in seven, which would get you knocked out. Previously, in the other format, you're getting knocked out definitely with that kind of form. So yeah, it's just the fear of not being in the Champions League. The last five, six, seven years under Pep, we've been in the last stages every year without fail. We've won it once obviously now. But it's the fear of not being in there. That's just embarrassing to get knocked out, to not even be in the top 24 teams in Europe. is not acceptable. Well, talking about embarrassing, Rory, was that how you described Chelsea's second-half performance at Man City?

48:03Yeah. I mean, I think you could go a bit bigger than that as well, Jamie. It wasn't only that performance. It's everything since we last spoke, I think. Like, on the 22nd of December, I think it was, we played Everton. We went away to Everton, and because of circumstance, Liverpool not playing. If we had beaten Everton, we would have gone top of the league. since then not only are we not competing for the league anymore but we are now nowhere nowhere near being good enough and I don't think we're going to make it into the Champions League spots and yeah that second half against Manchester City it was it was catastrophic it was lacking in everything it was a pitiful performance and I think Enzo Marescu needs to hold his hands up here and admit that he's getting a lot of it wrong what's he getting wrong?

48:45I mean I think he's getting an awful lot wrong I really didn't like you know when he came out and spoke about spoke about Chelsea not being in a title race. Since then, our form really dipped, and I don't understand what's in it for him to say that we're not in a title race, because I think it kind of normalises mediocrity. It makes average results acceptable. If you're not competing for the league, a point at Goodison Park, for example, or Sean Dyche-Everton team, it's quite a good point. If you're competing for the league, a point at Goodison Park is probably not good enough. So I feel like he just kind of normalised everything, and I don't really know what was in it for him to do that.

49:17It reminded me a bit, I don't know, it was probably 10 years ago now, Mourinho called us do you remember the little horse Chelsea being the little horse in the title race we could have won the league I think it's 2014 we could have won the league that year but we finished third and I don't understand why he came out and said we're not in a title race because I think it was in our interest to believe big up the team big up the belief big up the I think you're trying to take a bit of pressure off the players isn't it of course I think you're a bit harsh on Maresco there because we were all again we were sat over and I thought he'd be the first one to go because he had such a mess to deal with and I think he really sorted that out it's like when you say it's come to that point where they've got to a point yeah they look a really good team and then just gone a little bit The form since the Christmas period which is a defining moment of the season isn't it generally league titles Christmas period Easter period how do you get on in those periods will pretty much define who you are we have been woeful like absolutely woeful we've been beaten by Apsley it's drawn with Palace but beat by Fulham at home for the first time in what 50 years and I think Centre Harve's been a problem for you hasn't it Centre Harve's been And the keeper's a problem.

50:19You see, again, the keeper being a problem, at some point I think that it has to be that it isn't the keeper's fault. You know if you perennially play somebody who isn't good enough, at what point does it become not... Robert Sanchez is the worst goalkeeper in the Premier League. That's not an extreme thing to say. That's not a revolutionary thing to say. Everybody knows that. Enzo Mareska therefore knows that and yet he persists playing him. Who's responsible? He's made more mistakes than any other keeper in the league apart from Ipswich's keeper. they said something about five mistakes and when that was put to him he's made five mistakes directly leading to a goal and you know if you say five on some level it doesn't sound like a lot there's five mistakes we've only conceded 30 like percentage wise like Carol Vorderman will tell you that's quite significant it's like that's quite five out of 30 get it on next week yeah she'll tell you what does it say about the other keepers you've got though well this is a problem I'd rather have an outfield player in gold than this fella like it's absolutely ridiculous like it is ridiculous you can't keep playing him you have to do something else Petrovic last season was better than him there's Jorgensen who's playing in the conference league who look I know we're only playing Shamrock Rovers but he looks alright like I can't understand how you can constantly constantly play Sanchez and then now this I thought was a killer in order to justify playing Sanchez he basically hung out the other players to dry so it was put to him oh you know Sanchez isn't isn't doing well enough five mistakes he went have you seen how many goals as Nicholas Jackson has missed.

51:48He went, have you seen how many times Moises Corsado has given the ball away? Whose team are you? What are you doing? How can that be the justification? You know, in terms of the project, the new owners, the money they spend, they take out Pochettino. There must be a real nervousness there right now that if they miss out on Champions League football, especially if it's top five, because I'm sure Pochettino would have looked, certainly how he finished the season. I know you weren't a big fan, but I know the way they finished the season, what they've done this season, you'd almost go, well, that'd be...

52:18I'm sure Pochettino's looking at Chelsea now thinking, well, I could have done that because with the next few players and the way we were building. So do you think there'd be a few nerves at the top end of the club? Most certainly. I mean, Pochettino's actually been proven correct. You say that I wasn't his biggest fan and you're absolutely right. But I did want him to stay. I didn't like him because he was far too Tottenham, in my opinion, to have ever got the Chelsea job. But once he was in the job, I concede that towards the end of last season, the run that we went on, we did very well. We finished strongly.

52:44We qualified for Europe. we would have been in a different European competition if Manchester United didn't beat City in the cup final. So it was all going quite well. And Pochettino will now be laughing because one of the things that he really did amplify was Trevor Chalabar. It was Trevor Chalabar, Conor Gallagher. They were the players that were at the epicentre of when Chelsea found rhythm and form towards the end of last season. Conor Gallagher had to be sold. He had to leave because we had to play Enzo Fernandes, who is a very average midfielder, in my opinion. and Trevor Chalabar, who again was brilliant last season and is, in my opinion, the best defender at the club, was forced out.

53:21If that isn't a microcosm of everything going wrong at Chelsea, the sporting directors being totally inept, they forced Chalabar out, they put him up for sale, they totally disrespect him and then they go begging cap in hand when the two boys that we signed from France, from Monaco, they're just nowhere near good enough. They plugged him back as well, weren't they? Begged him to come back and then it turns up he's man of the match in his first game. It's really worrying because the trajectory that we're on... How worrying can it be? You're like fourth in the league. No, we're not. How worried are you?

53:55How worried are you? I'm petrified. He's deflecting here. Yeah, this is projection. But look, in terms of... To answer that, how worried am I? For what? Champions League qualification? What could possibly worry you? I don't believe Chelsea make the Champions League now. Well, maybe you'll do it next year. Don't worry about it. But again, do you know, OK, here's a ramification. Three years. So Cole Palmer didn't play in the Champions League last year. He's currently playing in the Conference League. I could be wrong here, but I don't believe Cole Palmer goes three consecutive seasons not playing Champions League football.

54:26I can't see a world where one of the best players, in my opinion, in the country, somebody who scored a goal for England in a European final, is happy to go third year out of Europe's Premier competition. Rory, that Everton game, I was so surprised. because we were under Sean Dyche so we didn't want to leave our penalty area and yet we had the two best chances to win the game and what really surprised me the last half an hour I thought these are going to go for it now because they could have gone top that day Yeah, we could have gone top I thought we're definitely not going to have the ball the last half an hour and he was so sort of passive It was like a point That point was good enough He put Meduayki on late on and he'd give you the little spark but that was the day I thought these aren't really because someone like Liverpool or even Arsenal people who have just gone for it City in the past they've just gone for it and yeah he did seem pleased I think he has normalised part of that part of suggesting that we're not in a title race it was to just normalise mediocrity to make it take the pressure off but I'm yeah a point at Palace suddenly becomes a good point and yeah I mean it's got to the stage where I don't think I don't think we make Champions League football he was right though wasn't he?

55:34I was right I was right you remember at the beginning of this I said we're not very good and possibly Coglu should have been sacked. The manager was right. Why don't they say we're not in the title race? Yeah, but I feel like he's been proved right. It was like a self-fulfilling prophecy. He said we're not in the title race and therefore we're not in the title race. He's been proved right because he's engineered it that way. Flav, are we... Here we go. This is why I'm here. Should Tottenham be making a change in the dugout? I don't think it makes much difference as it stands, given, I know no one wants to hear it, but it's the reality is the injury issues, no manager comes in and fixes this.

56:15Whoa, whoa, stop you there. You think no manager could fix the injury issues? I don't think a manager comes in and makes all the injuries better. So do you not think the injuries that Tottenham get are down to the way the manager maybe trains, the way the team plays? Okay, all right. So if we want to keep Poster Coglu, we need to back him in the way that the squad is significantly sized to play his brand of football. I do think there's a relation between the injuries and his style of play. Will the manager come in and make us a little bit more defensive and ask the centre-backs to run less intensity, less short bursts, high intensity, but rather, then maybe that will fix the issue.

56:55But if there is this vision that Postacoglu is the guy who will get us there, and that's debatable, then you back him at this stage because that's what the plan is, whether it works out or not. I've gone from absolutely adoring Postacoglu to being a believer in him to maybe just hoping it works to now I need to see it work when the players come back. For me, I think he needs to be allowed to bring the players back between now and the end of the season, seeing with his best team as such. But this idea that it's all about injuries just doesn't stack up because you go back his last 50 games that we looked at it on Monday Night Football I think they've lost 50 % of the last 50 games when that sort of initial 10 or 12 game run at the start of last season finished this has been going on when you've had the centre-backs playing and even this season when you've played Crystal Palace you played Ipswich at home teams you should beat when you had your best team you still lost those games well we didn't have our best team because Van der Ven wasn't playing in those games and Van der Ven's crucial to you played in one of the games he did And Romero played in the other one.

58:02And you're playing Ipswich at home when you're playing Crystal Palace away. Yeah, agreed. And the idea that you're not going to have one of your back five out in any game in a Premier League game is just fanciful. Very true. But the drop-off in our centre-backs is gargantuan compared to perhaps other football clubs. But then you take the back two and the goalkeeper out of any team, then you're going to have issues. He was playing them. Yeah, I know he was. I've been listening to you, Jamie, over the last six months. I know exactly how you feel about Spurs at the moment.

58:31it's difficult it's just a waiting game and I don't know whether or not Poster Koglu is the guy I think there's been a massive shift in opinion about him in the Tottenham fan base if it's 50-50 now that would probably be where I'd estimate it to be you can't lose as many games as we have three points around possible 33 is outrageously bad whether you have injuries or not but is the goal to change do you know what? I'm saying all this stuff none of it really changes with Daniel Levy and Enik at the football club because they don't operate in the way that other clubs at our level do operate at you know you look at Arsenal and when they bought Declan Rice there isn't a world where Tottenham would have pulled off a transfer like that and in terms of revenue not recent stature and recent draw you'd say that's with Arsenal for sure but in terms of revenue and the amount of money available to buy players it's not a huge difference between Tottenham and Arsenal but if you talk about Osserman going to a football club where's he going?

59:26is going to go to Arsenal. Why would Declan Rice choose Arsenal over Tottenham? Because Tottenham would never be in that situation. And that comes down from the leadership and ownership of the football club. What is their motive? What do they want from Spurs? They know how to generate huge amounts of money because we're in the top 10 richest clubs in the world without winning anything. So they do that brilliantly, but when is the club and the football team ever going to be the focus? One league cup in 20-odd years is not good enough. But he has spent money, Poster Kopp. I appreciate it. I'm not backing Daniel Levy or Enoch here.

59:56I totally back your stance on that. But I also concede that a lot of managers haven't been backed. Pochettino hasn't been backed off the back of getting to the temporary final. I'm not saying he hasn't. But he's spent a fortune, Postacoglu. I'm not saying he hasn't been backed. I'm saying that the profile of player that will elevate us to a potential title-winning challenge just isn't there. The appetite to do that deal isn't apt on us. Because he hasn't won a trophy for 20 years. No, but wouldn't that change with Daniel Levy if he shifted towards than operated a bit more the way that Edu operated at, Eddie did at Arsenal.

1:00:26I'm not sure it's as much the appetite of the club to bring them type of players to the club. I'd be surprised if them type of players want to go to the club. Yeah, but you have to change from, it has to come from the owners of the football club if they want to be ambitious in that way. Oh, I agree, but when Declan Rice is leaving West Ham, do you think, am I going to go to Arsenal or Tottenham? No, correct, but Tottenham would never even be in that conversation. With enough money, you can convince a player who has gone to Turkey to play for Galatasaray and Ossumen to come to Tottenham, right, with enough money.

1:00:57You could do that. But we would never, and that's the issue. You did spend money on a centre-forward, big money on a centre-forward. Yeah, but we also signed two 18-year-old kids that, as it turns out, are Premier League ready, but probably couldn't have been. We signed one out-and-out player that improved our first team. And in a January transfer window, when they can react to this injury crisis, and this is an injury issue that I've never seen at another football club in the Premier League history. Bournemouth. I might be wrong. No, not over the amount of time that we've had to deal with this.

1:01:27They could have done something in the transfer window to alleviate the problems that are currently in front of Ange Bosticoglou and they've chosen not to do it. I know there's five days left, but as David said, there's loads of teams. It makes no difference. If you've got a manager who's going to set up, regardless of who you play in this gung-ho way, that you're going to go, if you score three, we'll score four, you can't play that way. and it's irrelevant if Timo Werner is the guy that's going to score you the goals. It's like, you can do that at Celtic when you're slapping up Kilmarnock or whatever, but you can't do that in the Premier League.

1:01:56So where would you... You know what, Rory, you can do it in the Premier League because they have done it in the Premier League. Can I... I know they went to United on 3-0, which isn't... They also went to City as well. A good season for Spurs, where would we finish? A good season. Eighth. A good season for Spurs, where would we finish? I always think if people... A fifth or sixth, I'd say. Okay, so before Van der Venner-Romero's injuries were fifth. Three points behind Arsenal. And that's two players. We've lost 14 at the moment. You can't legislate for this. You can't. No, you can't. Far be it for me to give Spurs advice, because I'm very happy with the job that Poster Coggins is doing right now.

1:02:27But I think if you've got a tricky ownership situation, is it not even more important that you have the right man in the dugout? Yeah. And I think back to Arsenal, and when Arteta came in, part of the job he did was, I think, actually getting a degree of buy-in from the owners. the Cronkies, that hadn't really been there previously. He set a culture and a mentality that the owners thought, we've got a chance, we can invest now. And I just don't think, with Postacoglu, it just feels like he's just drifting at this point. I think that, weirdly, Daniel Levy looks at Postacoglu and thinks, I can't sack this guy because he's a foil for me.

1:03:03The attention is focusing, but it lays a sharp on Daniel Levy at the moment. It's going to be worse if he gets rid of Postacoglu, who's willing to take everything on his shoulders, probably wrongly. but it could be that that relationship works out and he backs him accordingly but genuinely I believe that Spurs will never ever kick on with Daniel Levy running this football club I saw something in a report in a newspaper yesterday I thought was interesting because I think they're actually two separate issues you've got Daniel Levy here and this is like the big picture of the club you've got Posta Coglu and I both think they've got serious questions to ask but the newspaper article was about how much Tottenham's revenue was spent on wages.

1:03:43And Tottenham's revenue, I think 42 % went on wages, where every other big team was like 60. I think Liverpool's was 63, which is quite high for some of the other. But City's was in the 50s. And the fact that probably Tottenham, probably right now they're starting to bring in money like the other teams do. So you never are going to get those players if you don't pay them the wages. No, no, you're right. We cut our wage bill by£30 million last summer. We lost Ndombele, Hoibier, a couple of others, and we're paying less than we had done previously. There's a direct correlation between money spent on wages and where you finish in the league, more or less.

1:04:17You get anomalies like we've got this season with Spurs and United being where they are. But generally, that's what you'd see. But there's not a willingness to do it at the moment. And until Daniel Levy goes, or a minority shareholder comes in with a different motive, nothing really is going to change.

1:04:41Baz, you're a man who's got a new ownership and a new manager, so you're bouncing, yeah? Happy? Bouncing, very happy. Very happy. First time I've done this for a while where Everton have won a game. And City are smiling. But yeah, it's going well, obviously. Great results at the weekend and played great, but we defended brilliantly and we'd had a result against Spurs. the week before who I have to say look in more trouble than Everton do right now but yeah it's good I saw the signs against Villa in his first game that things were going to be different it wasn't sit and have everyone in the box and just hope that you get a corner they were on the front foot and even though they lost the game I don't think they deserve to lose the game I don't think they deserve to win it but I think it's all would have been the right result You know what I feel that the last two games have given you obviously the most important being staying in the Premier League but almost that feeling that you can go to the game feeling we're not going to get relegated and you can almost enjoy a little bit the end of the season Goodison that thing of the new stadium was that because that was my not my fear as such but it was almost that fear that you couldn't almost enjoy this last season of Goodison Park because it was just a fear about actually we might not be in the Premier League Yeah a lot of that to be fair a lot of it's come from David Moyes is speaking in the I know what he's done on the pitch but just his press conferences and stuff I know a lot of Evertonen to stop listening to Sean Dyches' press conferences.

1:06:06You know, he was asked a few weeks ago about trying to get Gullis from Bamson for its last season and he said, it doesn't make the players any better. And I was like, what kind of message? I hear, you know, you've questioned Armourham and we've questioned Maresca, but to me, you're telling the players that they're not very good. Oh, they're not going to be very good. So, you know, and I found some of the Everton players' comments in the last few days have been, only reaffirmed what I thought anyway, is that, you know, they're talking about Jake O 'Brien just on the interview at the weekend saying, yeah, well the difference is we're going after teams where it was just oh we're terrified of everybody you know and that.

1:06:40Sure he's scared of himself in the mirror dice when he walks, well he should be but when he walks past it because we just never ever ever went after anybody with him. It was can we score off a corner or a set piece or maybe a breakaway and I think what Moyes has done is come in and go, at Goodison we're going to go after everybody we're going to lose games 100 % we're going to lose games. Away it might be a bit more or a Saturday, which is a little bit more pragmatic. We know we're not the greatest team in the world, but I've said on here consistently, these players are better than the results.

1:07:12They're better. Now, that might mean the 14th rather than 17th. I'm not saying the European, because they're not. We know we need better players, but I think that's what he's given us. And now, certainly the two home games you've had, I've gone into Goodison lighter. A, because the other fella's not in a dugout, but B, just because it feels a lot more positive. And we've lost at home game, we've won at home game, so it's about does that show you the difference that sort of a manager can have and you know we've all watched David Moyes' teams we've watched Sean Dyche's teams they're not a million miles away from each other in sort of how they go about it you know not a million no no what I'm saying you're not going for Roberto Martinez no no absolutely point being is it's almost the feeling that David Moyes is one of us he's never told he gets it you know we hear that all the time but he gets it there's definitely that feeling isn't there positivity when you've got someone in the dugout who you feel like he feels like one of us a little bit when I think of David Moyes I almost think he's an Evertonian isn't he because he was there for so long yeah it's the identification with the manager isn't it we haven't really had it that was never there with Dyche it was never ever there with Dyche people on the outside of Everton would look at the job Dyche did for Everton for the first couple of years and go he did a good job they kept you up a couple of times but I know through being in the city and having family go there was never that connection with the support you know what there's no problem in saying for 18 months he did he worked with difficult times you know we come in and we were in a tricky situation and he kept us up the next year we've had points deductions and injuries and this that and the other and he did you know we did a decent job maybe the summer should have been handshake and off you go but the club weren't in that position to do it so but this year he's just not got it and it says it all David Moyes has had one away game and he won as many as Dites did in a year so So that's where we were up to.

1:08:58And that's why when I hear people in the media or whatever saying, oh, you know, harsh, shacking, I'm thinking we won three games in 19 and it's Everton. I don't care whether you think, you know, where Everton are in your mindset. Everton has still sort of won the league the fifth most times in history. They're not a team that should be fighting the legation, in my opinion. So therefore you have to look up, even if you're only looking up one or two places. and I'm looking now at Spurs and thinking we'll be above them in the next week or so and I'm looking at United, gutted United score we're not that far away from them whereas for weeks it's like, oh my God with the new owners, with the new manager it's given us that opportunity to go actually we're not a million miles away from Palace and teams like that now of course we're still involved in the rest of it but just being able to look at other clubs and go we might be able to get near them and I think that's the key for me is the messaging from the manager and if he can grab everything together and go.

1:09:54I'm sure it would clop at Liverpool when he grabbed everyone together. We've seen it with other managers. And Arteta, to a certain extent, I don't know how long that continues, but he grabbed Arsenal together. And when you're pulling everyone in the right direction, not every Evertonian, but a lot feel a little bit more optimistic than they did. That's the biggest thing. Jordan from Leicester, is Ruud van Nistelrooy pulling everybody together at Leicester? Not necessarily, but I think he's the least of the problems, to be honest. Like Baz says, we're pulling in opposite directions. You know, there's a rumoured fan protest before the Arsenal game.

1:10:27The board's a mess. The recruitment's a mess. And actually, despite Van Nistel having a pretty difficult start, we had some difficult fixtures. We got quite a few serious injuries. And we actually look a more cohesive unit, despite not scoring in four home games and conceding. It's a recipe for allegation. But bizarrely, we actually look a fairly better side. I thought yesterday, actually, was probably the best performance under Roode. And I do have faith that he might just keep us up. But I think now it's three from four. Everton have started to pull away a little bit. We might be able to bring it back in.

1:11:02Spurs, I'm going to go there. You've not seen us play. The thing that happened, Everton scored one goal in six games. They scored three in the first half against them. Then the next week, you beat them. We only had two shots, to be fair. I'm just saying. well let's Scolsy speak Scolsy you know Ruud van der Stroy really well did you ever see him as management when he was in the dressing room no probably not I think Leicester took a bit of a gamble on him really didn't they they seen what happened in three or four games at Man United which was good but I'd never really seen him as a coaching type and how he did his little bit in Holland and I'm not surprised it hasn't gone as well as he probably would have liked because the experience just isn't there.

1:11:50You think of Everton employing David Moyes and you think if Leicester employ David Moyes, yeah, they could have half a chance of staying up. Now look, they still might have half a chance of staying up after beating the tournament at the weekend, but it's just that experience and that organisation. It's so vital when you come into these Premier League teams. He did it with West Ham as well, David Moyes. Rude just hasn't yet got that history to say that he's going to get you out of it. I think for Rude, that result against Tottenham was massive. He could have gone after that, could he? I was looking at the situation at Leicester in the last two or three weeks and I was thinking, I think Leicester might make another change.

1:12:28I was actually thinking, they might go for a dice or something. We got them Saturday and I was thinking, just hang on a little bit. Was there that feeling in the fan? Because I know it gives you, table looks better, it's a huge, whatever Tottenham are going through, it's still a big result to go away to Tottenham and win for Leicester. But before that, Was there that feeling that he might make another change? You said you're upset with the board. I don't think there was a feeling that we'd sack him. I don't think we can afford to. We've kind of kicked the PSR can down the road. That still hangs over our head.

1:12:54And I think that's why Moyes and Potter didn't want to touch the job. They didn't want to work with our board. And obviously they've got the PSR. The concern was Rude was going to walk away. Obviously he did that at PSV. And I think he was probably a bit worried what it would look like if he did it again. But he's been rumoured to be frustrated with the lack of transfers in January. We've signed one player from Parma for two million quid. There was also Enzo Mureska was reportedly frustrated with our lack of activity in January last year as well. So I don't think these experienced managers are going to come and work at Leicester.

1:13:29I mean, after we won the FA Cup, we actually lost to Forrest, who were in the championship the year after. We had Brendan Rodgers. We were paying him£10 million a year. He came out and said, this team need a refresh. And we either didn't have the money or we just didn't back him. and the recruitment ever since has been terrible. I just don't think these top quality managers want to come and work at Leicester and we had to take a gamble on Ruud, big name. It's bizarrely quite a powerful dressing room at Leicester considering the league position that we're in and at least his playing career should command a bit of respect.

1:14:01A few years ago you spoiled the recruitment, didn't you? We hit the jackpot. He got it brilliant, didn't he? Yeah, Mahrez and Kante. Mahrez and Kante. Walsh was Stephenie. Even after that. Steve Walsh, yeah. Maguire, Madison, Fafana, Tielemans. Schmeichel. Schmeichel. Let him go for one million. You said about Sanchez being the worst keeper in the league. Danny Ward played against Wolves and threw three in. Do you know what I mean? And he's still at the club. We got relegated with him in goal and this back four. Two years later we've still got the same. So it's a bit of a mess. Good way to finish then.

1:14:36My happy note. Exactly. And well, thanks for joining us. on another episode of the Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet.

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