Wirtz To Liverpool & Do United Need A Full Reset? | The Overlap Fan Debate

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2:26I'll always be more interested in how many Sunderland fans are drinking in the Euston Flyer than how many forward passes. How many was it? More than you would take. Everyone needs a centre-forward. Arsenal need one, Liverpool need one. You don't need one. I'll have Gerard back to that. Yeah. Thanks.

2:49Hello and welcome to another episode of the Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet. So we've got my normal partner here, Paul Scoles, normal set of fans. But this week, we're delighted to have Simon Ricks, the base player from the Kyrgyz Chiefs, who's here representing Leeds United. So we'll get to you shortly, Sam. But Scolesy, end of season. I mean, as a player, were you or was almost happy the season had finished? Delighted to get on holiday or were you already thinking sort of next season, who we buy and what we're doing? No, I was quite happy, especially if we'd won something, obviously. So that was every season?

3:26Normally every season, yeah. Then give it a week or ten days in. But no, yeah, I was always happy when the season's done and dusted. We can relax and enjoy ourselves a little bit. Okay, well, at the end of the season is always where we can still get excited. There's no football, but it's about transfer stories, especially with no summer tournament. But, so there's a period from the 1st of June... To the 10th. To the 10th of June. Is there a little transfer window open for ten days? I think it's there for teams who are in the Club World Cup where everybody can obviously buy and sell players in that window the Club World Cup was from the 14th of July 14th of June to the 13th of July is it fair to say we're not having the Club World Cup?

4:08No I rate it I call us world champions but it's just there's weird like Inter Miami aren't it how? why? it was a bit easier to do though I don't know remember 99 though when we got shown up was it 2000? don't know The Brazilian team, you were there! Was it in the Caxon? Gary Neville got spun! Gary Neville got sent off! Ed Mundo, yeah, that was the result, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember that. Fiasco de Gamma they were called, didn't they? Yeah, yeah, Fiasco. I do rate it on some level. I know that we don't take it seriously here, but I think around the world it is taken really seriously.

4:46Around the world, I take it unbelievable. It's like that European Super Cup. You see them teams, we win, I don't know what Liverpool are, but English teams, I don't think in general we're that bothered about it. I think we played Lazio in Monaco. We're in it. Spurs are in the Super Cup and it's almost like... Isn't it just a low level? It's just a community shield. If you win the World Cup, why are you in it first off? Cumulative success in Europe. Right, and if you win it, are you going to have a parade that no one's going to turn up to you? We should not have given them a trophy What have we done?

5:21What have we done? They have three trophies in his lifetime Look at him Luke are you looking forward to it? I'm looking forward I think it's one of them things it's new so no one's really but at the end of the day it's going to be on everywhere I think English fans whether they like it or not it's going to be It's on everywhere where's it on? Say it again I think it's on I don't know why I'm saying this I think it's on DAZN for free actually I don't know how I know The clubs are taking it very seriously though because there's huge amounts of money if you win it I think it's a way of trying to rival the Champions League.

5:46Is it every four years? Yeah, in 40 years I think people will care a lot more about it. When the European Cup came in, I wasn't alive, funnily enough, but I'm not sure the reception would have been incredible. Everyone loves being in Europe now, and now you've got a competition. The old one's nonsense. There's like four teams, like we said. It's pretty nonsense. Well, now you're there, it's good. And the reason I say that is that, let's say City winning, for instance. Now, you know you've had a poor season by your standards, but how can you say you're the world champions when you haven't even won like...

6:19How can United win the treble when they didn't even win the league the year before? I know, but the point I'm saying is, at least it's the next... So, Chelsea are in this for something they did four years ago. Do you understand what I'm saying? That's part of the reason. So, how can you say... Let's say Chelsea win it. How can you say that they're in the competition... The thing I can't get around is that every four years. Now, every year there was like... The South Americans would play the European champions. And it was on the back of what you've done last year. But it's probably the same team, same manager.

6:46There's a few changes, but you get it. I just don't see how you can say you're the world champions. You could have either won the Champions League this year. If Liverpool won the Champions League this year. He wouldn't be in it. No, they wouldn't be in that. But if Liverpool won the Champions League this year, you wouldn't say they shouldn't even be in it because they didn't win the league last year. No, but I'm talking about four years. Do you understand what I mean? Yeah. I think what they want to do... The reason you're in it is because you won the Champions League, I think, four or five years ago.

7:13You've probably got... There's probably one... I don't know. How many players or managers are still the same? It just feels weird to me. This team are in the World Club Championship because this team here and none of us are still playing for the club. It feels like a lot of these changes that FIFA have made to that and UEFA have made to the Champions League are to... Protect teams. Accommodate and please the teams that want to go to the Super League because now you can get all this money from these games and stuff. So I think it's kind of... I just think, I don't worry, I mean, FIFA have just, Infantino just created a tournament to try and compete or fight against the Champions League, because that's a money-maker machine.

7:46It's been, listen, whether you like the Champions League or not, or the name of it, or in the years gone by, the European Cup was only for the title winners. We can all have those arguments, but the Champions League from when it started in the early 90s has been a massive success story. We can't deny that, whether you like it or not. It's been amazing. I think FIFA, look, we've just got the World Cup every four years. That's our money-making machine, but it's every four years. UEFA have got this every year. So it's like, we've got to try and... How else could you qualify? We've created a tournament.

8:13How else would... If you were to make up now, just to play devil's advocate, how else could you qualify for it? That's the point I'm trying to make. If you have a thing every four years, how can it ever be the World Cup? They just need a volume of teams in it as well, don't they? They want Chelsea there. They need the volume of teams in order to make it this glamorous tournament that's going to run for the length that it's going to run. You can't just have the winners or the current winners. You have to have a volume of teams. Yeah, of course. But that's all it is. I think maybe we're potentially looking for rationale that doesn't exist apart from money.

8:48It is to make it as long and big as possible. Is there a situation now, whether this is true or not, I read a couple of days ago, Infantino or the Club World Cup were almost trying to find Ronaldo, a team, He's going to join Al-Hilal. I mean, what is that about? He's like, he's full. He's granting Inter-Miami access to it. It's becoming a little bit stinky. Will you just watch it? I'm good. What I'm saying is other fans, if other fans are not teams aren't in the Champions League, we all watch the Champions League, don't we? Even if your team's not in it. Would you watch it in the summer if your team wasn't in it?

9:26Not particularly now. Yeah, but it's on a programme that I probably haven't even got. Do you remember when, off the back of the pandemic, we were all watching German football? Yeah, but it's not... It's just like football, isn't it? It's like the French. You're going to say that watch it, but I'll end up watching. You will watch it. Like, when, where are these players going to get like a pre-season then? They're not going to get one. That's good, it's better to have this than pre-season. Yeah, but it's the entire... Can I ask a question, Jeremy? It's a month. Can you sign a player just for this tournament?

9:51I think that's the whole point. So, is that a little window? This transfer opening just before, or if, say, Real Madrid could maybe get Trent and others. Salah fancy trip to America who gives Salah like a one-month deal. That sort of stuff could actually start happening. It gets very messy when it becomes, you know, so the Cristiano Ronaldo Saudi Pro League is an example of it. But Chelsea would be an example of it because we have a multi-club model. This is all stuff I hate, by the way, but we have a multi-club model. Imagine a world where Chelsea aren't in it, Strasbourg are in it, and we go, Cole Palmer's going to go and play for Strasbourg in the tournament.

10:26I think that's where it gets a little bit murky. But we'll see. We'll see what happens after the summer. But through the summer, we mentioned transfers. Gareth, I want to come to you. Liverpool have champions and I think throughout the season or certainly later in the season, I was still saying, I think Liverpool need five or six players. I think your view is probably pretty similar. But there's already names now and it looks like Liverpool want to get their business done very early. I mean, how excited are you about the rumours around Florian Vert coming to Liverpool? Yeah, very. I think like everyone, you know, I'm not one that watches loads of the other leagues around Europe.

11:02I don't know where everyone else is finding the time when they've got families and work and the rest of it. But anyway, I've done the thing that everyone does where you get on YouTube, you research them, you watch it all and you think, that would look very nice on a Liverpool side. Someone who can see those pitches, play those balls, dribble past players, loads of assists, loads of goals, exciting player. And it's something you talked about, isn't it? I remember you saying about you liked Suboz Lai, but you just thought, is he quite creative enough in that final third? Is that maybe something that's missing from Liverpool?

11:33Well, this would be it, wouldn't it? This would be exactly that. And I'm quite excited about that. Some Reds are quite negative about the full-backs that we're supposed to be buying. so Kirches and Frimpong. I'm excited by both of them as well though because what the criticism is can they actually defend? And I'm like, but we go to Anfield loads and loads of teams turn up and we don't require much defending. It's more breaking them down. So if there's more options and we're more unpredictable and there's players flying forward from different positions, good. It sounds like Slott's trying to make us more exciting, less predictable and move on to something else I think at times this season we have been quite workman-like and we've ground results out and you need to do that to win a title United that's enough but if it's a bit more exciting and there's exciting players and he certainly looks one doesn't he Wirt it's yeah It looks like to me I'm looking at it and I still believe Liverpool need the number of players I'm talking about but it looks to me like he's thinking okay let's get the players in the team because I think the left-back players who comes in Fring Pong will fight or a good chance of playing with Conor Bradley.

12:46Florian Vert plays if he comes to the club. But I still think we need the centre forward. And I think Liverpool will look to get their business done really early. Because I think if they haven't signed anyone for a year, we know Liverpool, they'll be in the background speaking to agents. Who's the one that you think is the most important? You've always had a left-sided centre-half defender, haven't you? We need a left-back. Andy Robertson needs help on that side. Simmercast will probably move on. But I think I've always felt attacking midfield and left-back are the two areas that really have jumped out to me, I think, for probably 12 to 18 months.

13:29And it looks to me as if, like, OK, left-back, Florian Viet, whether he plays in Sir Bozlade or whether he plays from the left, I don't know. I think he could play a number of positions. But I think the next one is centre-forward. And I wouldn't be surprised if once Liverpool get these two or three done, the next one is the centre forward and then as the we're linked to the who's in charge of it or Richard Hughes and Michael Edwards does the manager have a big say or yeah I mean I I don't ever believe this when people say oh the manager's no say this idea that someone turns up with a pair of boots one morning and he goes I don't know you you know what I mean I'm not having that at all but I don't think it's a case of a manager in the old days where he goes I want him in a minute it's a bit like no this is what we do there has to be some form You know, there's a lot goes up to it.

14:14And then I think as the window goes on, Liverpool will just see who they can sell, what they can do, and they might bring another midfield player, another centre-back to back up, really, but they'll just almost assess what the situation is. Yeah, there seem to be question marks over quite a few players, doesn't there, where you think it could sort of go either way. I think Nunes, to me, looks like he's out the door. I think the fact that they just weren't starting him and he was hardly getting any minutes towards the end that a season tells you everything you need to know there. But players like Jota, does he go?

14:45Does he stay? I don't think he's tore up any trees this season. In flashes, you saw the old Jota, but equally I think in lots of games you saw a Jota where it looks like he's dropping off a little bit compared to standards he's reached before. So I think there's... I'm picking the papers up today and Gakpo's linked to a move away, Diaz is linked to a move away. I'd kind of be surprised if either of those went because after Salah's you know Salah's performance is unbelievable isn't it 34 goals 23 assists I think it is all comps next one down that was those two you know so Gachpo's second top scorer then Diaz I think I think that's the right way round I don't know why you would be selling them unless they're You know what I think Gareth you know what I think and I agree with you they've both had really good seasons I think so we know a little bit more behind the scenes at Liverpool so they brought the old transfer people back if you like they'd had a fallout with Klopp the back now running the club the great thing they built it with Klopp this great team European Cup League and then they moved away as Jürgen Klopp got more power and I think players have been legends for Liverpool one of the biggest trophies were given contracts and were allowed to stay at Liverpool longer too long basically and that's why Liverpool fell off for a little bit and then came back I think the way the way these want to run Liverpool is they're not going to sell their absolute best players I don't say that but a Diaz or a Gakpo who are good players they wouldn't want to sell them but if someone made them an offer that they think that's more than what we think I think this is the way it'll be run now it'll be like oh no he's going and we back ourselves to go again so that's what I mean but in terms of those getting linked I'm like no you wouldn't want to sell those but they're probably thinking but if it offers enough money oh we will do it I think the club will be like that now in terms of they wouldn't allow because Arne Slott's called head coach the first head coach in Liverpool's history because they're never going to allow even though he's won the league in his first season I don't think they're going to allow what happened with Jürgen Klopp where it became he was making these bigger decisions and he's a god everyone loves him so when you're hearing those things I wouldn't be surprised I think there could be a few surprises who go if they'll get offered the right inning I think you probably have to be a little bit careful with that because we were talking before about the Arsenal squad and not having players to come in with Liverpool especially with that type of players your gag polls your DIs your jotters they've got five or six forwards and you think right if two or three of them aren't working we've got another three who could just easily come on and do it that's where Arsenal were quite weak and I think that was a big part of Liverpool's strength I think Scorsi that I think Liverpool have got Salah and I think the rest underneath of them are all good players but they're not great players they're not Liverpool great they're good players yeah yeah I agree and I think they might think well okay if we can cash in we back ourselves to buy another great player or someone who potentially so Vierge becomes a great maybe they sign that centre-four from Frank Pierce, who's not just a good player, he becomes a great player.

17:40That would be the idea.

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18:12Right, we've got Gareth and Greg Justin and Georgia First player, Scolzi This is just non-league so I'm just going to chuck it in the middle So that won't help, will it? It's a good start Right, Watford Watford, we up here somewhere? Yeah, yeah Yeah. Yeah? Go on, next one. Next one, yeah. You see it on there? Yeah. I've got that many. Sunderland? Watford to Sunderland. Watford to Sunderland, yeah. Next one. To Southampton. Where am I, Jamie? I don't know. Whereabouts? I just haven't got a clue. Portmouth, yeah, innit? Where's Southampton? Bournemouth, Portmouth. We're the other side, Southampton.

18:57This side? The other side of the little gap in the middle. Yeah. This side? Yeah. I'll have a go. Kevin Phillips. Brilliant.

19:08No, I'm clapping. Clap what you say.

19:15Right, so... Michigan player two starts at Watford. Then he goes to... Aston Villa. Christ, that's so nice. Come on. Oh, Ashley Young. Yeah.

19:33APPLAUSE Should have got that quicker than that, shouldn't I? Right, mystery player three. This is the chance for Gareth and his team to get a little consolation, yeah? Greg? Go on, first one. Norwich, where are we? Round there? Around here, aren't we? Yeah. Are we OK? I would say East... Yeah, round there. Is that Coventry? Norwich to Coventry. Easy. Yeah. You'll get it now. Darren Huckabee? Darren Huckabee? No, you're out. You're out. I will be here all night. Was it? Go on, I don't think they should get any more clues than that. Go on, Gareth. Go on, Gareth. You say it. You say it. I can't wait for you.

20:24You're usually like one of them players who never want to take a risk. You always play the simple passion. No, I just genuinely don't know. You haven't got the bottle to give an answer in case it's badly wrong, so you're just happy to say, oh, we don't know. Yeah. Go on. Norwich. Norwich to go. He's a big name player. He's not who I'm thinking there. Oh, I know. Right, you'll have to put the next one in, will we? Is it West Ham the next one? No. Blackburn. Blackburn. Right, Blackburn is up here somewhere, innit? Was it outside Manchester? Yeah. Who's that? Is that Blackburn? Are we having that?

20:58Blackburn? Blackburn. Oh, my God. This is the easiest one. Oh, my God. It's easy when you know it. It's going to be Liverpool. It's going to be Liverpool. I think I'd have got that at Newcastle. Definitely. Jamie, who's the next one? I don't know. I don't know. My memory is terrible. I'm helping you out. I'm celebrating. Liverpool. Ooh. That's the vibration. Craig Valamere. Yes!

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23:52Simon, we introduced you before. I mean, before we get into the football, what are the gigs this summer? Glastonbury? Yeah, we're doing Glastonbury, yeah. We've got a big gig in Leeds, a big park in Leeds. So, looking forward to that. Glaston, we're going to go to some stuff in Europe. Going to go to Madrid and play this festival called Mad Cool that I've never played. Pink Pop in Netherlands, Latitude, lots and lots of places. What stage in Glastonbury? On the main stage, actually, yeah. On Saturday. Oh, maybe that's not announced. Hmm.

24:29Anyway, maybe Michael Leavis doesn't watch this.

24:34Simon, we look at the Pro Linton clubs now around bringing players in because we all know, history tells us in the last couple of years that teams who come up can't compete right now. So is there anyone you think realistically you'd like to see at the club? I'm thinking of someone like a James Milner, maybe just for the experience, almost on the coaching staff. You know, Premier League experience, is that what you think you might lack? Yeah, I think the club want to get anyone, basically anyone that's played in the Premier League as the profile. I think Milner, I really wish we'd have got him last time we came up, because I think it would have been really useful, but maybe it's a little bit too late at this point for him to be useful.

25:12We're after though, I think a lot of teams are after. Kelleher, I think we want a goalkeeper, and Simakas as well, we need a left back. Have you wanted to be linked with these players? Liverpool. Yeah. So I don't know if they'll go to a more established team or not, but those two are definitely linked with Leeds. They need a 10. There's like, hmm, I don't want to be harsh. What are you like financially? Have you got money? Yeah, 49ers own Leeds and they have raised 120 mil on top of whatever you get TV money. We were on TV like all the time, weren't we, last time? So we did really, really well out of TV money.

25:46They sold loads of players last year as well. didn't buy. So Rutter, Somerville, Archie Gray. I think PSIYs were pretty good because last year and the year before we sold players, so despite going to the Championship I think we've done pretty well. And since 49ers came in, which is when we went down, they've been really good actually, the players we got in, pretty much every single one of them has worked to doing a job in the Championship. So people like Ampadu was cheap and has done a really good job and he's captain. Everyone knows about Tanaka now, he seems really good and he was three mil.

26:23So they're doing a good job but this is a huge test, isn't it? Simon, in your team coming up, who would you actually say in the current team that you've got now would you say is Premier League quality, you think will be able to hold their own? I think it depends who they're playing with. I feel like both Rodon and Stryke could be good with someone else next to him in central defence. In terms of fullbacks, they're both ace going forwards, similar to what you were talking about. But whether that's what we need, like Junior Firpo is a free spirit at left back and it will end up at like number 10 or number nine or all over the pitch, which is fine in the championship.

27:02And he's got millions of assists in the championship. But whether or not he is the left back we need for the Premier League era, I'm not sure. Keeper, we need a new keeper. so I think there's realistic four or five. Goal scoring wise, Simon. I always think when a team comes up, if they can score goals, they've got half a chance. I actually, remember I said that about Ipswich? Yeah. You're such an attacking team but they came into Premier League and just, well they got hammered by everyone, didn't they? But didn't really go for it the way they did. I always think if you've got goals in your team, it gives you a chance and you've mentioned full backs that are half keepers.

27:39Yeah, everyone's been scoring this season like this season as opposed to last season when we didn't go up, we had a couple of people scoring all the goals. This season, everyone's chipped in, lots of goals from the wings. We had Perus, the highest goal scorer in the championship. So there's lots of goals this year, but whether they translate, like you say. I was going to say, do you think you need a centre forward? I think everyone needs a centre forward. Arsenal need one, Liverpool need one. We need one. Everyone needs one. But if you can get goals from elsewhere, I think that's Leeds' secret, is if you can get goals from elsewhere, then that'll be good.

28:09when we did well in the Premier League season Bamford got I think 17 goals but actually it was his hold up playing him bringing other people in that was the thing that really got us up to I think we finished ninth that season did we? He's still there Bamford isn't he? He's still there doesn't play much He can't stay fit can he? He's trying though I actually saw him the other day and he's already training so let's see what he can do That's nice of him Adam Man United it feels like every year we say it's a big summer I'm really intrigued to see how the manager navigates it because there's probably a lot he wants to change he wants to get players to play his system probably not going to have as much money as he would have liked so he can't get everything he wants what are sort of the big two or three things that really stand out you think, well okay, he has to buy in that position or in that role Striker for sure, I know like we just said everyone needs a striker but you look at a lot of the games towards the back end of the season for United, you were kind of saying, why are United doing well?

29:10I mean, not many things, but a lot of the time when you looked at the, I hate saying this, but you looked at the XG, generally we were underperforming our XG, which means your striker's not good enough. And we can see that without looking at the stats. So I think a striker's massively important. Obviously, he's been linked with Liam De Lapp, although I feel is that one a little bit too early for him. And I think he's fancying a move to Chelsea because he's got Champions League football. But I would go for someone like Victor Osserman. He's obviously available on the market. is a similar age to Jacarese and stuff.

29:38The Jacarese one just... I don't want United to go for that one. It's just a gut feeling, and I could be massively wrong, he could come to the Premier League and score loads of goals. But I look at that and feel like he used to be made to Ruben Amrimi was his coach at Sporting. Are we going down the Eric Ten Hag path with the signing tier, just signing players that he knows? And he wasn't great when he was over here, was he? He wasn't, no. Well, he was for Coventry, to be fair. But that's, yeah. I think Osserman's... Yeah. It sounds like... It's a doable one it feels like, doesn't it? He's stuck not as high as it was.

30:11When you talk about supposedly got financial problems, then you think he'd be one of the doable ones. But I'd keep Hoyland though. I'd keep him with him. I know he's not been great. I can see all your faces. My head's gone with him. He's a 22-year-old kid. Been asked to play centre-four off Manchester United on his own for the last two years. I just feel like he might have gone too far now. Pardon? I kind of agree with you because I think he will move on and do well. But I feel like it's gone so far with him where you can see his decision-making's being affected. You can see he's being weighed down by the shirt.

30:44He's had to play every week. He's the only one there. He's a 22-year-old kid. Man United should have three, at least three, with the way they're playing now, at least three top centre-forwards. And I'd bring him into that. If you had Yosserman, even Yosserman, I don't know, Gioca is whatever he's called. You know Yosserman, nice. We ain't going to have the change. You know what, he's struggled like mad, of late especially, and at Hoyland, but he's not got the chance to sit down and watch. If a striker's not doing well, he's no confidence, the manager just sits you down on the bench, just come back and have a look, get a bit of hunger back, a bit of feeling back for the game.

31:19It's... Can't believe, we all know he's quit, what was that? Well... Hoyland. That was Hoyland? We all know he has got centre forward quality, we've seen it. Look, not enough, I know that. but if he's got experience around say he had Andy Cole and Dwight York around him it'd bring him on so much he wouldn't even be on the bench if they had never had him I know what you're saying he's been absolutely flogged to death you think that the fans are like so Mellier our keeper he's made some mistakes and like I think he'll be a good keeper eventually but I think this season will go he's been going for years though hasn't he Mellier I know he's only young yeah he's very young still but the fans are just done yeah it does feel like Adam doesn't it with Hoyland I didn't even want him to start a final.

32:03People forget how old he is though. I do see that and I think in his first season, me and Rory used to have these debates a lot and he slowly wore me down to his way of thinking, unfortunately. That's what he does. But last season, when he scored 16 goals, United were crap. We weren't creating many chances and he was making chances for himself. But this year, someone would play a pass down the line and instead of trying his best to bust the gut and go and get it, he'll just throw his hands up at them and you just think, you're not Cristiano Ronaldo to be throwing your hands up and waving them around.

32:31Adam, a lot of that is confidence. I think recruitment-wise for United with this system, it's quite confusing. Well, it's confusing for us, but I assume because he knows the system he's been doing for a while, he'll have a really good idea of it. The centre-halves can't change it. He's got five centre-halves already. You think of De Ligt, Martinez, Euro, Maguire, and the young kid, Heaven. So they're not going to get a centre-half. Two midfield players, that's possibly a place where they could bring someone in. Ugarte at this moment hasn't worked. Now another year down the line he might be okay.

33:06I think Casemiro was quite good towards the end of the season but when you're talking about being physically better Casemiro doesn't really come into that. And then you think about the number of 10s you talk about Kuhn and he could possibly be a centre forward. He could be a centre forward. I think the win-backs is a difficult one to recruit for. I think he's stuck in between having a wing-back who can defend or a wing-back who can... He was a winger, basically. You know who would have been good in his system, Wan-Bissaka, you know? In his system. I know he weren't working for Tenaga. As what?

33:44As that right wing-back, just further forward. You know what? The amount of times his wing-backs that he's got now, say it's Masraoui, Dalla, or Darga, the new lad who's come in, they're in acres and acres of space. but once in that final third did no quality that's where I think maybe you bring someone who's more thinking of attacking rather more than defending you think Dargu is brought in and you think that's the one he might like because Ahmad was the only who looked like a proper Ahmad is the one who can do it who's the winger who probably don't want to run back all the time but he's going to have to to play in the system whether you're playing that number 10 system I don't think it suits So when he's out wide, he is a real threat.

34:28Ganaccio possibly on the other side, but again, he's not going to be the one... I don't think he's going to be... He's not going to be the one running back. The sign of Dargu is a little bit concerning. It's more of a defensive... I think he brings up the athleticism in the team as well. Like, we're not very athletic. Like you said, we went into a game against Spurs. If your team with that system are getting most of the ball through the wing backs and they're not very good on the ball, it's a waste of time. You know when you talk like this Paul, listening to the players, when we talk about transfer windows, we always focus on the players coming in, don't we?

34:59Do you think there should be a mass clear out? How many do you think should leave? Oh yeah, definitely. There will be one. What about in terms of the players that have... Do you think Mason Mount should stay at Manchester United for example? Why are you digging into Mason? No, it's a good question because the kid's never fit is he? And now towards the end of the season he has managed to stay fit for four or five weeks. And I think he's a really good player. but is he ever going to stay fit enough? If you say to me now he's ready for 45 games next year, then yeah, all day long. But I just don't see it happening.

35:33Luke Shaw's a set. How long are we going to carry on with Luke Shaw? He's brilliant. He's perfect for the left wing-back position five years ago, but he can't do that now. He's missed so much football. If he plays wing-back, he can't get into the league. That's a problem. You can't change the ball. You want to change. That's what I mean, though. We might need to. You would probably want to get a better goalkeeper. But you talk about budget. You talk about other places of the pitch where it's more important. You've just got to say, look, he was great for Inter Milan two or three years ago. We've just got to hope he's probably not had his best couple of years and that he comes good.

36:07And that's the places where you try and save your money. De Gea shouldn't have gone. De Gea shouldn't have gone, honestly. I was so... 38 games next season. He should have done. When he went, it was the right time for him. Nah, he had to go. When he went out. You're only happy to see him because he tossed two in in the cup final. Exactly. The amount of saves De Gea made. De Gea won the Golden Glove this season. He left as well. People don't remember that. It was the right decision to get rid of De Gea. It was the wrong decision with who he replaced. I'm glad he went anyway, personally. Is there any chance that Man United get involved in a relegation dogfight next year?

36:35Yeah. You piss off. No, seriously. But you know what? What evidence? If you get rid of Bruno, I'm glad he said it, not me. Yeah, you finished below us in the league. What's going on? 22 games. This is the Manchester United segment. One trophy. No, but what? It's not. It's an incredible thing to suggest that Man Utd could even be in that conversation. And without the Champions League money, and having already spent 60 million on Kuni, he's a brilliant buyer. Like, there's so many problems. Look at Leeds. Leeds went from being in Europe every year to going down, like, 20 years ago. He knows. Shots fired?

37:09Did you just have a debut? No, it can happen, can't it? Leicester won the league and then they won the FA Cup, right? And then they went down. It's just a bad transfer window and a bad managerial appointment and Man U go down. and we would probably have a bus parade in Leeds if my new went out. I'll be there, mate. Aston Villa. Yes. Right, brilliant sort of recruitment over the last couple of years with Monchi there and obviously the manager you all love, Unai Emery. What are the big areas for Aston Villa to address this summer? I think the big question is who's leaving and that's how we've got to assess it, I think, going forward.

37:45There's obviously lots of rumours about Emi Martinez, Olly Watkins and, as I said, I think there's nothing off the table as far as outgoings go because we have got to raise money in the very near future to make sure we're compliant. And like we did last year, we lost Douglas Luiz and we lost Moussa Diaby pretty early on to make sure we were compliant and then we kicked on and started signing players. So I think it all hinges on which players attract, unfortunately, the most amount of... Well, let's say Villa's team now, you're really happy with it. You've got a really good team. I know everybody's not going to stay, but that team that you've watched for the whole of last season, What areas need to improve?

38:21I think the right back needs improving. I think we need help there. You know, if Matikash does stay, I think we need somebody else. Garcia came in and looked really good from January onwards, but didn't get much game time towards the end of the season. Matikash had a really good spell and then he dropped off a little bit at the end. But I definitely think right back is somewhere we need to improve. I think we saw, obviously, Rashford come in, Asensio come in, and De Sasse come in on loan. I think all those three will probably go. I think the only one I think potentially we could keep is Asensio.

38:50But I think the other two won't stay, so we probably need another centre-half to help. Tyrone Mings has got one year left on his deal, I would give him another contract. I think he's great around the club, I think he's a really good player to keep. Plus he's been really good when he's come in, so I think you need four good centre-halves. The left-back situation, I think Luca Dean we could also see move on. I think Mattson has started the season expecting to start, to start but I think Luca Dean's performances throughout the season was so good he basically kept the shirt all season but towards the end again Mattson has sort of taken that role now and I expect him to start next season as our left back so if Luca Dean does go another position what we need covering is the left back.

39:29Do you think with no Champions League football this is going to really hinder this sort of Aston Villa, Unai Emery sort of journey of probably basically finishing with a trophy Do you think this is a real kick in the teeth for you? No, not massively. I think the plan is always to try and regenerate every summer, whilst we're still trying to achieve this off-field financial stability which every club tries to get. And I think we are still on that journey towards that. We've improved so much off the field in the hospitality areas, in the income side of it, but we're still lagging behind and we're still having to, frustratingly, get to every summer and rebuild.

40:06and it's only like two or three players but I still back the team behind the scenes to know I think they had a plan and they would have had a plan in place for every single eventuality whichever competition we were in and I think it's just now a matter of waiting to see who comes in for who and then we fill those gaps with quality and then at the end we sort of look and say okay how do we want to make sure we've got two good players in every single position to put us in a position at the start of the season to kick on and to continue the trajectory we're on over the last three seasons.

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42:17Flav, Tottenham have got the Champions League money. Are you expecting a very busy summer, or do you think Daniel Levy will open the pair of strings? I mean, yeah, this is an opportunity to go big and sort of change the way we've operated in the transfer market previously. And I'm kind of thinking in a dream world, someone like Adam Wharton, you know, but you're going to have to drop 100 million to get him. 100 million? 100 million? Yeah. Four years left on his contract. Is that where there's wages for 20 years? I think no one's paying 100 million for Adam Wharton. I think they are. He's a good player, but not 100 million.

42:52Palace don't take less than 80 for me. I think it's a 100 mil to get him out of there. Yeah. Yeah, I think, genuinely. I like Adam Wharton the player. Anyone who pays a 100 mil for him, you're mad. Right, but it's what you have to compensate Palace for. Oh, my God. I mean, I think that's universally, apart from you, the things... 100 million for Adam Wharton. He's not saying he's worth that. 100 million. I think what he's saying is to get him out of there. To Palace, that's what he's worth. Yeah, I get that. But why would you buy him? You wouldn't buy him for 100 million. Don't be daft. No, stop being lost.

43:22Just a prediction, I thought he solved some problems for us, Jamie, I think. But if we can't buy him for 100 million... You idiot. Something like Douglas Luiz, maybe? Is that more? A bit cheaper. Yeah, it's cheaper. 200 million. About 20, 30 million maybe, Douglas Luiz. That makes more sense, I think, doesn't it? Yeah, it does. I just love Adam Watt and he's an incredible footballer. Oh, we all do, but... Also, you can put 50 million on Nugati and then have to buy another 50 million pound later. Yeah, if a guy is 50 million, then Adam Boulton is 150. So, yeah, the midfield is a big issue, really, and has been.

43:59And so I think that's where most of our money is going to go. But the question is whether or not Daniel Lee, if you're going to be expansive in the transfer market, we're getting£100 million from thereabouts from the Champions League. But finishing 17th financially is a massive issue as well. It's£3.5 million every place. if you're finishing fifth last year, I don't know what it might say. You think you could get relegated next season? Yeah.

44:25I think... Flav, you know you're talking about this gives you an opportunity to do things that you haven't done of late. I remember this stat coming up on Sky, and I don't know what, I think it might be over the last three years or five years, that Tottenham are the third highest spenders, I think, in that time. Maybe since Potts has left. There's something like that. Yeah. So you'd have spent. No, no, we do spend. It's just how you spend it. Like if you're dropping 40 million on Archie Gray and 10 million on Lucas Berivar, they're not players that are ready to play. Their potential is incredible and I love them both.

44:57But Ange Postacoglu had to deal with the large chunk of the transfer window, get a large chunk of the transfer money going on those two players as opposed to first team ready players. Yeah, we do spend, we do spend. And, but we also get a fair chunk in through selling players as well. Kane was sold for big money, 100 million, and that went in on players being bought. So it's more about the ambition. Like if we wanted Adam Wharton or Declan Rice went to Arsenal, for example, there is no world, no one in this room would believe that Spurs could potentially get someone like Declan Rice or Usamen or attract that calibre of player.

45:36We have the financial might to be able to do it. It's just that the energy at the football club isn't there, where it is at other football clubs that want to be successful. Daniel Levy's got to do a lot of work and the Europa League, as amazing as it was, shouldn't be the kind of end of our expectations of what we want to do. That energy has to come from Daniel Levy. Scores, I'm going to ask you a question and then I'll throw this to the rest of you. If there was one former player at their peak for your club who you could sign, basically, a player from the past, who you could sign for Manchester United right now, in terms of not just the greatest ever player, in terms of what you think Man Utd would be.

46:15What they need now, Roy Keane all day long. There's players like Wayne Rooney, Cristiano Ronaldo, Ryan Giggs, all these types of players, but Roy Keane. You really miss not just a footballer who can control a game of football, but that leadership around the place. I think that is something that is sadly lacking. Can you just tell people how good Roy Keane was? because on As a footballer? Because people kind of he's just a lunatic he's a hard man he just chops people but he was a very good footballer and that kind of goes overlooked a lot when people talk about Roy Keane Well people talk about this number six role don't they the McAleary role and I think a lot of people see Roy probably as that a little bit he was anything but that but I think that was as a central midfielder for Manchester you just couldn't stay there stay there and let everybody else play you had to be involved and everything, you had to be able to defend, you had to be able to attack.

47:10He was unbelievable, like a running machine, but with quality with it. He'd do everything. He'd overlap his winger, both sides. He'd sprint forward, he'd sprinted back. He'd led the team almost in a Brian Robson type way, really. This is why I hate all this, man. He's a number eight, he's a number six. Gets on my nerves, especially as a central midfield player. He should be able to do everything. It's quite easy just to stay. I think a lot of people talk about Caicedo, he's played 38 games, brilliant, what an achievement. Yeah, but was he much quality? Did he create a lot? Did he control loads of games for Chelsea?

47:49I don't remember that. I think there's an era now, midfield players especially, where you can go through seasons and games without really contributing a lot. Do you know what I mean? Well, the job's getting separated. It's like, you do that role, I'll do this one. Whereas when you were in a two, you had to do everything. Yeah, do everything, yeah. And that's what Rykeen did, and that's what he'd do in this team as well. Gareth, I'll ask you that from Liverpool's point of view. I'll have Gerard back there. Thanks. I thought it was good.

48:23No offence. It was no shame, wasn't it? I mean, he can do a bit of everything, can't he? And I think a little bit of what Scholes was talking about there as well, about, you know, he's someone who'll make something happen. He's someone who sort of recognises the mood in a football game and says, knows when to drive people on, knows when to hold it and all that kind of stuff. He could play further forward, he could play further back, he played on the right, played right back. So he could do a bit of everything. And yeah, he's someone I've grown up watching and loved. So yeah, in this world where we can have someone back, I'd have him back.

48:57Georgia for Arsenal? In their prime, Thierry Henry, I think. All day, every day. That's an easy one, isn't it, really? Yeah, I don't even need to explain that, really, do I? Yeah, everything about him. Rory? I think from what this team needs... Dennis Wires, isn't it? Dennis Wires. I think for what this team needs, I think Didier Drogba, it's either John Terry or Didier Drogba, but I think what Drogba would bring as a centre-forward to this team, it would elevate us beyond recognition. He was unplayable, wasn't he? And I think people, again, I think this conversation happened earlier about what stats can do to a player's legacy and maybe Roy Keane doesn't necessarily get the plaudits that he deserves, not by us, but by the world.

49:37And I think Didier Drogba is a bit of a victim of that as well. People look at the numbers, people look at the goals that he's scored, people look at the statistics, and it doesn't even come close to justifying what an exceptional footballer he was. One of the greatest big game players probably there's ever been. I think if that's the conversation, I think it is him. I don't think there is really a rival. In terms of turning up when you most needed him, I don't think anybody came close to that. And I also think that there was this amazing release. And maybe this goes some way to explaining Chelsea fans' some would say arrogance of late.

50:09It's because we knew. You know when he was in the team, you just knew it was going to be fine. You just knew. You could be losing the Champions League final and you know he's going to turn up. You could be playing Arsenal in Cardiff and it's not necessarily going your way. Walcott scored, it's all right. Didier's in the team. Having that luxury, it was amazing. He had some record, didn't he, in big games. Was it finals as well? Finals, yeah. He scored against us, didn't he? Sent off in Moscow, didn't he? Yeah, of course. But like you say, big games. When we were going for the league against Chelsea, you just...

50:38Well, he scored, didn't he? It was offside. When Joe Cole scored the back hill in front of Stretford, he scored at the other end to win us the league. Talk about drug, but don't we? Yeah. Rory, you've got a question for us? I'm told. I've got loads of questions for you. Oh, Georgia! I thought he said Rory. Who? Sorry, Georgia. All right. What manager in your time gave you the toughest pre-season? Oh! I only had one manager. That one then. Do you have different coaches or do different pre-seasons? Yeah, I was just going to say, when you were 18, you had Eric Harrison, obviously that was fucking hard.

51:15But there was no sport science then. I'm a bit older than you, aren't I? Yeah. So the coaches did it. It was hard. Eric Harrison, Nobby Styles, Jesus. I don't know about you, but up until 16 years of age, when you first go to your club, I never thought about fitness work and running. I just played football. You played on Saturday, Sunday morning, you played with your mates. All of a sudden, you go to full time, you're doing pre-season training. You know, what's going on here? You're just never used to it. You're just running, running, running for days. It was so hard. Then the likes of Brian Kidd, who was assistant to Sir Alex.

51:53He then did it and he was, that was so hard as well. He used to go to Italy, watch them train through the season. We had a fella called Warren Joyce who did the under-21s. Like a soldier, you had to be. It's like being in the army, honestly. The first team lads used to wait international breaks because he was doing the under-21s. So the lads who weren't in the international, there might have been four or five, you're training with Joyce today. They used to hate it, the foreign lads. It was so hard, so difficult. He had the fittest team ever. but probably I came back 36, 37, I was fit as I've ever been.

52:28I've been training with him for six months. So yeah, look, there was some really hard ones. And then, do you know what? I don't know about you, but towards the end it got easier. I don't know why, because the sport signs came in and they're frightened to death of flogging you a bit, aren't they? I've got a little Italian bloke, Walter, who came with Carlos Quiroz. God, this is easy, I don't mind this, two or three weeks. but I think we were saying before players look after themselves a lot better than they used to now when I was 18 19 you're going on holiday for six weeks you're going on the piss for six weeks basically coming back a stone overweight and you've got three weeks four weeks to get yourself fit now they come back they're lean they've been trained they're all having the they're in Portugal with the coaches and stuff and they're all ready to go virtually from from the first day My one was with the Uliase was hard.

53:19It's like 45 minute runs and stuff like that. But before that, like the old boot room way. And I used to love it in some ways that the older you got, it was all like really scientific and everyone would be in groups, might be your position. You know, you'd never train with the Ute team. But when we were 16, there was only one training ground. It was not like the academy. It was like the 16, the YTSs, the reserves and the first team, that was it. It was like sort of three groups. Everyone's pre-season together. So my first day of pre-season, I'm doing the same run as John Barnes and Ian Rush. You know what I mean?

53:48But I'm like 16, thinking I'm trying to kick... And they're all just saying, fucking slow down, fucking slow down. Busy bastard. Yeah, yeah. Where's he going, everyone? So you weren't allowed to go in front of them. But that was just the difference. Everybody just did, this is the run we're doing today. It doesn't matter what position you play. It doesn't matter how old you are. It doesn't matter how fast you are, what your endurance is like. You're all doing exactly the same thing. So that was the big difference. But Uliye, I think, was a lot tougher. and then the further we got up to sort of, you know, the older we got, we'd become really scientific, a bit like your heart rate can't go over a certain thing and you can't do this and you can't do that.

54:22Basically, you're just playing football, weren't you, really? There wasn't as much running then.

54:32Greg, have you got something for us? Yeah, what's the most memorable pre-season tour? On or off the pitch? Off.

54:43The story I think that probably sums up the change in football was we had a situation where we had two managers. We had Roy Evans and Gerard Ullier. So, you know, the old boot room. Club probably didn't have the bottle to sack Roy Evans, really. So they bring Gerard Ullier in as a little bit of a coach, joint manager. I think it was bizarre. But we all know when you go on a pre-season tour, there's a night out. Wherever it is, we used to go. Pop your jeans. Yeah. T-shirt and you're out it was almost like you put all your work in you can go out and have a night out and I always Uli couldn't get his head round it and I think we were in Norway and we played a game and the big night is that night out in Norway and like we come out and you know the lift opens and you've all got your gear on and Uli he's just there and he's the new guy everyone's trying to impress he's a bit like he's foreign everyone's a bit like that and he's just stood there in his Liverpool track he was glasses you know just looking at us and we all just stood there he doesn't know what to say.

55:43And next thing, fucking Roy Evans has got his gear on behind us.

55:49Roy Evans wants to do the night out, and that probably just summed up, like, you know what I mean? It was a night out of the staff as well. And Ullier was just, he couldn't believe what he was seeing, you know what I mean? But that was just as we were sort of, obviously Roy Evans moves on, Gerard Ullier comes in, but that was just, that was a perfect example of basically the change. Did he go get changed? What's that? Oh no, we were right out. You're not missing a night out in Norway. Scolese, anything for us? Nothing in particular. It was probably an important part of the season, wasn't it? You think of new players coming in.

56:21You have like three or four players, that was the first night where you saw them maybe a little bit different, you're all a bit quiet and obviously you have a drink and stuff flying about but yeah, there were a few that probably can't be mentioned. Were you in the Bermuda one? I spoke to Chaki about it. No. Was that before you? That was before me. What happened? With Arsenal? I can't remember who played but it was just in the middle. Do you remember when you got sent off in Amsterdam though? And it stuck to the Premier League, they suspended you in the Premier League. Was that 06? You and Wazza got...

56:53No. What happened with that? Wazza got suspended as well. You both got three games for a red card in a friendly. Yeah, we both got three games for a red card in a friendly. Yeah, those first three games of the season. Never happened before or since. For a sending off in a friendly? Yeah. It's not happened before then or since then. Really? Real odd shit. Everyone's against Magnolia. Right, we'll go to the fan debate community questions. And this is from Josh in Birmingham. Thanks, Josh. What footballing opinion can someone have that would make you lose all respect for them? There's a few Arsenal fans before the PSG game.

57:36saying they wouldn't take a single PSG player. That was mad. Come on. Yeah. Yeah. That stuck with me. Come on, I knew Rory had done. Do you know where I struggle? I struggle with people who don't, who put all of their faith in stats. Like, you know, if somebody approaches a conversation about football and they immediately bring up XG and that's their thing, I don't necessarily lose respect for them, but I probably think this conversation... I've done the juice of XG before. I did say I hate mentioning it, though, when I said it because I know how he's going to be I just know that their opinions on football won't chime with mine I'll always be more interested in how many Sunderland fans are drinking in the Euston Flyer before they play at Wendland than how many forward passes how many was it?

58:1917 more than you would have taken

58:24he won someone's nan's vase yesterday and he's getting cheeky

58:31any more? Simon? the leaving early to get the bus or whatever is the word for me. I always do that. I think players is alright. I was once at a game actually with some managers and I was the only one left. But I went to that Arsenal game where Terry Henry came back and the Arsenal fans were leaving. He was coming on and they were leaving. United fans left on that mad comeback as well. Did you see them all trying to get back in? The Lyon game, it's every team. Oh yeah, they did. They couldn't get back in. I left to hold them at half-time last week. I don't know. You're 3-0 at home. You're 3-0 after 12 minutes going to Salifax.

59:09Oh, fuck.

59:13I don't get... I know, like, so there are circumstances like your own, Jamie, obviously, where it's... Or like what happened with Peter Reid, where you've grown up at Red and then you play for Everton, so you become a blue and you're vice versa. But I'm just a fan, not someone who's played for the club, a fan who tells me they used to support X. I'm out. I'm not listening to anything you've got to say. Or just two teams. You know when they've just got two teams? Two teams and a buyer. Yeah, that's weird. Support two teams. Shamrock and Chelsea. I don't mind if they say they've got a soft spot for someone else.

59:46I used to go and watch Sam here because they used to play on a Friday. So it was easy to go. And Aldo played for them and all that kind of stuff. So I don't mind that. But if you're saying I support both of them, you're like, well, how can you? Where did you fit it in? Yeah, no, it's painful. What about if your team takes over, so I've got a mate who sports Leeds and Bournemouth, but he didn't think it was a problem until Bournemouth were above Leeds? You have to pick one eventually, right? You have to pick one. Is that the end of the fan debate brought to you by Skybet? It looks like it is!

1:00:39We'll be right back.

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