Cowan-Dickie & Ringrose out, so who plays the first Lions Test?

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0:48Alfie: hi listeners it's Alfie here just before we get to the discussion between myself Alex and Will looking back on the Lions' final tour game from out here in Australia we've had some breaking news since. Luke Cowan Dickey picked up his head injury in the game and Jamie George is being called up to the squad. Cowan Dickey also still a part of the squad but Jamie George is coming from Argentina where he was due to play with England today. He is on a plane out here to Australia. We didn't have that information when we originally recorded so we just wanted to mention it at the top of the podcast but on with the rest of the pod.

1:25Alfie: welcome back to the ruck five games five cities and we have reached a pivotal point in the tour the lions are departing adelaide with another win next stop brisbane and build up to the first test i'm alfie reynolds and i'm here once again in a commentary box looking out on the adelaide oval with will kelleher and alex low and we have got through what feels like the first real chunk of the tour, gents. Yeah, and what a place to finish. Adelaide Oval is an absolute beauty of a stadium, isn't it, Alex? Yeah, I think it's my favourite of the Aussie cricket grounds. It's the one with the most character.

2:01Now they're playing test cricket at the Optus in Perth. This is the one that still stands alone. It's got the hill, you can see the cathedral over the old scoreboard from where we're standing. And the way they've modernised this stadium, but kept it feeling sort of vintage, it's classy, it's lovely. So they've actually got two walls one which is a hundred years old behind one of the stands and the other one that's about 10 years old and they look similar and that's it's a bit like lords as you say they've tried to keep the character in the old place but they've kept the so we're looking out on the field now from the halfway line and you can look out towards the cathedral and the 100 year old scoreboard and the morton bay figs there on the mound and apparently the morton bay figs were put there because people were just sitting behind and just watching the game so they put them there and grew them so that people didn't get a free view of the ground.

2:47And now they're protected. England have done that at their training base in Bagshaw. They genuinely have. What, grown oaks in the way? Grown trees around the... Yeah, stop people looking in.

2:58Alfie: Great stadium, great occasion, perhaps not quite as good as it could have been because the game we saw was so one-sided, but still certainly I think we're leaving Adelaide and it's made quite an impression on all of the press pack. Lads, the Lions have done their tour games. They've got that one in between the first and second test, but to all intents and purposes, They've done their preparation. Now they're in to build up to the first test. Shall we start with injury news? That's one of the big things to come out of this game. More injury news for the Lions, which you expect on a Lions tour. But this close to the first test, it's certainly not ideal.

3:30Alfie: So Luke Cowan Dickey obviously went off with a really bad head knock. He is going to have to go through the HIA return to play protocol. So it looks unlikely that he is going to be involved in the first test. And they're definitely going to need to call someone up. Yeah, so Cowandiki has had concussions before. And the rules are that if you have had a concussion before and history of them, you need to stand down for 12 days. Andy Fowl wasn't quite sure on the length for him straight after the game. But I think it's pretty clear that he will now miss that first test match in Brisbane. So they're going to need a hooker.

4:07Alfie: And the other piece of injury news is something that actually emerged midway through. Yeah, during the game, our Irish colleagues broke the news that Gary Ringrose is suffering the effects of a concussion that he picked up in Canberra on Wednesday. And it was noticed that he wasn't out on that pitch that we're looking at at the moment for the captain's run or for their training yesterday. And neither was Olly Chesson, who I think has picked up a little leg knock. And essentially Simon Easterby on Friday said there was sort of bumps and bruises. but we've learned today that Gary Ringer basically has had a delayed onset concussion, so he's still got headaches, so he's now out for 12 days.

4:44And let's open the discussion on the midfield because that changes a lot, doesn't it?

4:49Alfie: Good time, though, for Hugh Jones to have the performance that he did tonight. Yeah, I think it would have been a tough selection decision for Andy Farrell between the two Irish centres and the two Scottish centres. He's still at pains to go, we don't see them as Irish centres and Scottish centres, and we get that, but they have a connection as partnerships. With Gary Ringrose not available, could be really bad news for Bundy Aki as well because against some fairly limited defensive opposition, Tua Piloto and Hugh Jones were outstanding. And you just saw here, as we saw in the Waratahs game, just the connection, the cohesion they have, the understanding of running lines, of timing, which they weren't really under pressure defensively today, but they were much more in the Waratahs game and they will be in the test, timing is really important.

5:38So yeah, really good opportunity for Hugh Jones to just, I think he's had a really strong tour, having come in, having not played a huge amount. Tuipolotu, I feel hasn't been quite as direct as the Lions might have wanted, but that combination is really important. And just from a spice, let's big up the first test perspective, to have Tuipolotu up against Joseph Suali would just be brilliant. because they collided pretty heavily at Murrayfield in November. There were a few words said between them. Sueli is like, I'll see you in the summer. I'll see you down under. So I'd quite like those two to go up against each other because we'd have a real proper narrative.

6:17But I do think now you're looking at the Scottish pair starting and now Bundy's, it's like, can you find a place for him on the bench? When Farrell is asked that question about a natural understanding that's been built through playing in the same club team, playing the same national team he keeps saying well we don't see them as Scottish players and no one's saying that you do what we're talking about here is partnerships that are that we know work and I don't I think why would you go into the first test with Bundy and Hugh Jones who just don't have both very good players but don't have that natural timing that understanding of angles and it just makes so much sense to me that they now will they now go in with the Scottish pair and it's unfortunate for Bundy and then the conversation becomes can you find a place for him in the 23 and I, this is like long range trying to read what's going on but Hugh Jones getting hooked after 49 minutes said to me, he's starting at 13 let's not risk him any further and then the way that the Lions brought on Marcus Smith and Owen Farrell together with Tuipolotu moving out 1-13 just says to me that those two are going to be on the bench together as a throwing a grenade in the mix slightly there is one option and look I agree with all of that where Farrell Owen plays at 12 with Aki at 13 so you have two playmakers and then you have the big beef one place further out and I think that would be too soon to do that yeah Owen's played what half an hour in one game and looked classy lovely kicks lovely feeding the ball he wasn't playing against the greatest defence in the world, but he did a good job.

7:59But that is an option. It is an option. There's two reasons why I don't think they can do that. I think on the Lions tour, there are certain selections that you have to make on trust because you don't have training time. The Lions came to Adelaide with a big training base and then didn't use it because they're all exhausted. There's a big element of fatigue going on, so there's a lot of resting. So they're talking a lot, and they're walking through stuff, but they're not properly training. So you do have to make some selections on trust but I don't think you need to trust a brand new combination that's never played a game before.

8:34You don't need to do that for the first test. You don't need to pick Owen Farrell and Bundy at 13 when you can pick Tori Palotti and Hugh Jones which you know works. You don't need to trust that selection. There might be other places where just the nature of the challenge means Gibson Park and Finn Russell will go into the test match having played two games. two games together. Now, you're trusting the quality of those players, and I think we've seen enough to know that that will work, but there's no need to take that gamble for the first test against the Wallabies, I don't think. What I would say as well is that the Lions are getting really unlucky with these injuries, that they're not losing sort of like, oh, well, poor guy, but we weren't really looking at him for the series.

9:17Thomas Williams was playing brilliantly when he got injured. Elliot Daly was the best back, probably, at the time where he got injured. And then Ringrose was nailed on, probably, to be the 13. And then he's out the first test. So, like, that's tough, isn't it? And these Lions tours, like, it is funny, isn't it? Because we all love it. And we're not going to stop doing it in four years' time. But it's hilarious us picking Lions 15s and 23s in, like, January or December or even, like, two weeks ago. Because things change every three days. Take the 23, then. So let's assume that they go in with Tua Plotto and Hugh Jones as a starting 12 and 13.

9:59How do you balance your bench? So options. Finn Smith has been the number two fly half, but only plays fly half. Aki, he's a centre. He's a 12 really, but he only plays centre. So then you would be asking players from the 15 to start covering. So you'd be asking maybe Hugh Jones to cover 15, which he hasn't done on this tour.

10:20Alfie: played there a lot for Quinns I know it's not quite the same yeah of course he can do it but again why would you if you've been planning for six matches why would you then pick something for the test that you haven't actually tried yet and that's sorry just to interrupt there that's another annoying injury is Blair Kinghorn because he's got this little sprained knee possible ligament issue and at the very earliest he's not going to be able to train until early next week and they're going to be picking the team internally at that point so he can't be on on the bench for the first test either. And he would be a perfect option for that 23 shirt.

10:54But just like, you know, we know he can play 10, but you wouldn't have Blake Inghorne on the bench for a test to cover 10 because he hasn't done it here. He hasn't done it with this team. He hasn't done it with a scrum half. So it felt to me as they brought that bench on, that Owen Farrell and Marcus Smith on the bench seem to cover all the bases that you'd need covering without... So what's the risk with Owen? The risk with Owen is that he's played 25 minutes, 30 minutes here against semi-opposition. But then the Lions would say that's counterbalanced by this is his fourth Lions tour. He knows what he's doing.

11:28And he would cover 10 and 12. Marcus Smith would then cover 15 and 10. And you would have... And then you'd have to have a nine. And you'd have to have a nine. Keenan can cover wing, which I don't think is too much of a stretch. Because they've lost, as you say, well, they've lost a lot of their natural versatility. the only utility player left is Marcus Smith and then Jamie Osborne who arrived today in Brisbane exactly which is I mean I can't yeah I cannot I sort of can see him coming onto the bench because they need they need that sort of versatility but I think the first test is too soon just because of experience of understanding the plays and the terminology and timing and all of that sort of stuff so when you when I knock it down I think Bundy could end up being there are options where Finn Smith can be on the bench or Bundy can be on the bench I don't see how they can be on the bench together but the ring rose injury the knock on effect of that could mean it's really bad news next week for Finn Smith and Bundy potentially yeah

12:32Alfie: it goes back to when we did our squad was it around Christmas time and we spent probably half the pod doing the bench the bench was the issue then wasn't it as well. A couple of other names boys who I think had good games tonight which is good news for the Lions and certainly in terms of selection makes it more tricky. Hugo Keenan I thought was much better which is absolutely crucial because of Blair Kinghorn's injury. If Hugo Keenan didn't look good again here I'd be looking at fullback like wow that's going to be a weakness but he was better and then Andy Farrell got asked about it but Matt Hansen between him and Tommy Freeman on the right wing is going to be whoever misses out you really feel.

13:09Alfie: Yeah I'm not sure about that. Or could you play both? Yeah, I think Tommy Freeman plays. And you think Hanson possibly comes in for Lowe? Maybe. Lowe has been a head-scratching player on this tour because we all know what he can do. We haven't seen him do it, so we were just shooting the breeze on one of our pods when we post-matched about, why are we not seeing it? Are they just holding back plays that he's going to be involved in? Why have we not seen James Lowe? And then there was the really weird finishing on Wednesday. But also the weird timing. like Bondi threw the ball into touch got all the blame for it but where was James Lowe like what was he doing so he's been a head scratcher for me because he's I think he can knit so much together I think his left boot is massive we don't even see it because they're playing this limited plan so would he be the only left footer in a back line as well which is probably a benefit yeah with no Elliot Daly yeah so he's hard on form to justify being in the team ahead of Hansen and Freeman but then it comes back to this point of trust.

14:13Sometimes you have to trust certain players. And he's got a good understanding of Gibson Park. Absolutely. You just haven't seen it yet. Absolutely. Certain players in certain situations, in certain contexts, pressures, test match, all of that. So the wings thing is fascinating but I think it would be really hard on Tommy Freeman if he doesn't play because he offers... His aerial threat is so important and he's just one of those players who does so much work really solidly well. He's not... There aren't fireworks from him. He's not electric. Eyeball stuff will be important when Ozzy actually kicking the air.

14:48Finishing's really good. And his defence, I think, is good. And the aerial stuff is going to be really important. So we're standing here, Alfie, in your talk sport commentary box, which is on our sort of usual position of halfway, but where Alex and I sat was behind one of the goals, behind the boulder's arm, let's say, because it's the other laid oval. and it was a great day to watch Hugo Keenan from that angle because you could really see his positioning and how clever he is at picking lines from the back and tidying up bits and pieces and I actually, which I'll write about tomorrow had a ridiculously cool experience where I walked on the roof on the Adelaide Oval whilst the game was actually going on whilst the game was happening so I was watching it from even further like drone view over the top and he's so good at covering loads of space and like bless him, poor old Doohan.

15:37I mean, he scored a hat-trick, but there's another couple of times where you're like, blimey, mate, come on. He's had a tough tour. And it looks worse from above when you're just going like, I can see the space. Oh no, it's gone over his head again. But yeah, Keenan, that's a real positive because poor bloke's been ill and they needed him to play well and he really did.

16:23Alfie: We'll be right back.

16:33Alfie: A few more for you lads. We knew this was going to be a huge selection headache. Picking the squad once we saw the options in the back row, we knew it was going to be a huge headache. Who on earth is Andy Farrell going to select at seven? Well, seven. I was going to just want to hat tip to Ben Earl today because... Is he ahead of Pollock now? I was thinking today. Top carrier Earl, wasn't he? Making metres around the fringes of scrums and rucks and line-outs. I think he's had a better tour so far than Pollock. Yeah, I can see him getting the bench spot. But I thought he put his name in the hat for...

17:08I mean, I don't think he'll start at eight. But he couldn't have played any better today, I don't think. I thought he was excellent. He delivered everything that... The opposition, this invitational team, had the potential to be really good. But it was unlikely to ever really click for very long because they've just been thrown together. Loads of good players thrown together. But there were a couple of units within it that looked potentially really strong. The midfield and the back row. And I thought up against, you know, Satutu and... Samu. Samu, just like good, well, European champion. And Shannon Frizzell.

17:45Ben-Oldes had a really strong game at number eight. And I think he probably is in the 23. I think there's a possibility that they both get in the 23. Pollock and Earl. Pollock and Earl, because I think... If you play a big six. Right, because the way that they kept him on today, and Pollock played six, he played the role that was needed. He wasn't going looking for... I think maybe other than the try that he was held up over the line. It was a bit of a glory bid, I don't think he was ever going to wrestle his way through those two guys and touch it down. but he played the role of just a good solid strong shift in which did actually sort of epitomise what this team had to do today Like an unselfish play for the team not yourself thing Yeah it was a real theme of the week and Ty Byrne talked about it on Thursday and actually so did Ben Earl the idea that no one's getting in the test team by trying to do it on their own and I thought it was a real disciplined professional performance and Ben Earl was right at the heart of that Now, your question, Alfie, about sevens, we'll probably discuss it for ages and ages, and then he'll pick Tom Curry.

18:53Because I think that's what will happen. And I think he'll end up picking Tom Curry, Jack Conan, and Ollie Chesson as his back row. That's what I think. As long as Chesson's definitely okay. As long as he's definitely okay. I think Jack Morgan, this was probably his day to try and... Because he's the jackal of all those sevens. He couldn't have done much more. He's the jackal. He's been good. Oh, yeah, he has. It's just loads of good options. But he played the whole game, and he's the jackal of the options, isn't he? More than van der Fleer. Van der Fleer's more of a link man.

19:23Alfie: See, I wonder if van der Fleer is who they're going to pick, just because it comes back to the Leinster and Ireland connection. What a week we've got ahead, by the way. We're going to be told to try and guess what this bloody team is going to be at some point as well. I'd say that... Who knows? I'd say it's between Curry and van der Fleer. But the way that Andy Farrell has talked about Tom Curry on this trip... He's a machine. it's like it's like the way he sees curry as as being the sort of heartbeat of the team he wants out on the field the guy who will just chase every kick make every tackle just kind of empty himself yeah yeah and he's you know and maybe he's just using that to try and set a tone for everyone else and then when he comes to it he'll pick van der vleer but just something he says that he might go for power in that back row physicality to dominate then you and if you've got chestham as six you could unleash Earl and Pollock in the second half.

20:18I did enjoy, sorry quickly, the Pollock's desire to finish the try that he got. It was a lovely well balanced kick from Farrell wasn't it? And Pollock got there before. That's a good little moment there to not give up on a chase and score a try. We talked about this in the press room during the game but for anyone who watches NFL there are certain situations in in games where you don't want to score because you're trying to control the clock so you might you might make a break and then the defenders are almost trying to drag you over the line so that they can get the ball back with enough time the way that rugby now is if you get held up over the line it's a goal line dropout I wonder whether more thought needs to go into players when they're going to try and finish so Pollock's one like stop before the line i.e.

21:06just accept that you're not going to score yeah because you're running into two defenders and just try and get a quick ball. If you get turtles on your back, you're losing the ball. So many times you see players try to charge through contact and then I think defenders are so cute just getting under it and holding them up. We've seen so many on this tour. We have, exactly. Two or three a game. I'm starting to wonder whether, you know, and I've not run this by a coach, so it might be kind of dismissed immediately by all coaches, but it just occurred to me watching that one with Pollock, because we've seen so many that maybe players need to be thinking differently about finishing these tries because if you almost just touch rugby style accept the contact secure quick ball you're gonna you should score next phase do you know what I mean I just yeah it's something I might try and ask around um whenever I speak to any coaches just because we've seen so many on this trip where you think you've gone almost too greedy or too too selfish too alone just take the contact outside of the uh before the goal line and try and secure focus on good presentation

22:11Alfie: quick ball and move it and then you should score lads final one or final couple to wrap us up have the lions had the preparation they need all the tour games very one-sided as we may be expected no i mean look if this is a new zealand tour they'd have a lot more challenge they haven't had to be very good to win lots of these games. They were good tonight. They did their job. They did what they needed to do. They've been clunky in other games. They were less clunky today, I guess. The opposition wasn't maybe as cohesive as a super rugby team who've placed over all season. But, yeah, I mean, the reality of an Australian tour is that you're just not going to get really strong opposition because they don't have enough teams who are very good.

22:54But let's see whether it's going to matter in the Test Series. Off to Brizzy we go. You can tell because they've been asking questions of themselves or setting themselves. Little targets. Game challenges. They're really pleased to nil this time. Stu Farmer with the stat, first nilling since Melbourne Rebels in 2013 for the Lions. Okay. Good effort. So have they had enough preparation? It's one of those things, isn't it? You never quite know. It always used to be the case that when they first introduced the Premiership playoffs, the team that finished top got a week off went straight to the final and then kept losing it and everyone's like well it's because they've had a week off there and so then you know now they expanded to four teams they've had they've not trained very much so these matches have have been sort of in lieu of training but you can do that because the opposition are club level or today it's international level but they're thrown together sort of barbarian style so i think it's disappointing for the tour not not a surprise but disappointing for the tour that the Lions can rack up 40, 50 points in most of these games pretty easily and often by not playing well for half an hour or so.

24:03So yeah, disappointing for the tour and will have to be addressed. If they're going to keep the Lions cycle, 12 years' time, I think they need to rethink an Aussie tour because there are too many one-sided games and not enough players here. What I would say too is that we're now finally seeing the fans. There's more Lions, Lions, Lions. Standing on the roof, you could really hear it. and much more red shirts around Adelaide and it'll quadruple 10 times in Brisbane and that's great. We're going to have to go in a second but I've got a slightly gratuitous shout out to make here. But it's cricket related, we're at the Adelaide Oval and what I wanted to do was just give a little shout out to the Primary Club who are a charity for visually impaired sports people and the way you can qualify to donate is if you've ever got out first ball in any cricket.

24:50So do you have a first ball memory? Have you ever had a golden... I don't. I mean, I must have done. I must have done. I definitely did. I actually can't remember. My first one ever was when I was, I think, maybe like 10. And I got triggered by our umpire, who was my teacher, for being LBW as a 10-year-old. Well, what's that mean? You're protected from LBW because you're 10. I know, but it's like... You're either out of LBW or you're not. Marginal LBW decision for a 10-year-old. Marginal, that's fine. Being 10 is what I mean to do. I was distraught. One of your boys came back and said, Dad, I got triggered LB by my own teacher.

25:23Don't miss the ball. But anyway, so yeah, the primary club, they do great work. We're at Adelaide Oval, so let's hope there aren't too many primaries over the course of the test match for England. We're probably going to have to go and watch that now, aren't we, the cricket? Because that's going to go down to the wire.

25:38Alfie: Wimbledon final as well. I'm going to try and catch some of... We're going to have some late nights. We've had so many and they've all been working. They've hardly gone out, have we? So we've got to the end of the tour games. Next stop is Brisbane. so we'll be back with you usual pod on Monday then big build up into the test series special guests on the Monday pod we do indeed a little of an 01 look back with Owen Finnegan and Justin Harrison good stuff some fun stories there appreciate you listening this has been the Ruck the Journalist's Rugby Podcast from the Times and the Sunday Times

26:19Alfie: Plus, get free delivery, haul-away, installation and parts, and a two-year Lowe's protection plan on purchases of$999 or more. Labor Day deals are on now at Lowe's, in-store and online. Valid through 916, while supplies last. Selection varies by location. See Lowe's.com for more details.