England v France: which Champions Cup quarter-final was better?

0:00¡Bien! ¡Seliz cumpleaños, Rafa! ¡Sopla, sopla!

0:03Charlie Morgan: Cuando cumples 45, te toca soplar muchas velas y examinarte contra el cáncer de colon. Usa la prueba de Cologuard Plus en la privacidad de tu casa y envíala de regreso para obtener tus resultados. Los productos Cologuard están indicados para la detección en adultos de 45 años o más con riesgo promedio de cáncer colorectal, solo con receta médica. Visita Cologuard.com para más información. Pide la prueba de Cologuard Plus a tu médico. Para más información en español, visita coloGuard.com.

0:56Let's get into it.

1:26Elgan Alderman: ¿Qué weekend? Busy weekend. Busy weekend, yes. Friday night celebrating the Great Britain Women's Rugby Pioneers, 40 years from their first ever test down at Richmond. That was a fun evening. And then to Twickenham Allianz Stadium for the opening game of the Women's Six Nations. We'll talk about the difference between that as an occasion and as a high-performance sporting performance later on. And then straight after that down to Rygate to compare a choir concert. So it was a full-on Saturday for me. I always enjoy asking you what you got up to over the weekend porque es siempre un eclectic mix de cosas, ¿no?

1:56Como te dije, vamos a ver el 6 nations. Eso es coming up. Vos para England, para Scotland y para Francia. Pero vamos a concentrar nuestra atención en la Champions Cup y la quarterfinals y también con el que nosotras. Es Charlie Morgan, ¿no? Hola, Charlie. Hola, pal. Tu had la delight, yo diría, de la rec Friday night y creo que fue un instant Champions Cup classic.

2:18Charlie Morgan: Oh, yo loved it. Sí, es un juego que realmente se ha perdido. Un juego que tenía un juego que había un hype Familiarlo

2:52fue muy unidad y el bordeaux-toulouse, la calidad de la atmósfera looked increíble, lo que es lo que nos espera de la fiesta. ¿Qué es lo que nos espera de la semana?

3:02Elgan Alderman: Creo que es la caso de la All-French o la All-England 1v2 pero creo que cualquier game que tiene que tener dos equipos scoring más de 40 puntos ha sido un gran victorio en un friday night creo que tiene que ser Bath-Northampton.

3:14Charlie Morgan: Sí, yo diría que es por estar ahí. Tiene la cantidad de calidad, obviamente, y como esperaba, en Bordeaux-Toulouse y eso fue más test matchy me hubiera hinging a poco a los cards que Toulouse suffered shout out en la Challenge Cup para Exeter ir a Benetton y winning es un gran resultado y eso fue un resultado de un poco de un accident en mi phone es una de las donde se ve check the score y quedan con la mayoría y fue great Exeter building algo especial As you were talking there Charlie Elgin y me exchanged a little wink porque I knew that if we're mentioning the Challenge Cup there's no way that Elgin's going to let us get away with not mentioning

3:56Elgan Alderman: The Mighty Dragons winning in Zebra 35-32 after winning in Paris 36-31 a fourth semi-final in the Challenge Cup for the Dragons stand up for the men of Gwent, come on, let's go As I was messaging you both over the weekend of what do you want to cover, any big talking points and Elgin straightaway said the Dragons getting into the Challenge Cup semi-final, so look you've got your mention early on in the pod as well All jokes aside, for so long Dragons have been the fourth, the most unfashionable Welsh region. They have shown some signs of recovery this year. So for those travelling fans, there was a great picture of all the fans that went out to Paris for that Stade Francais game.

4:30Elgan Alderman: You know, it's one of the longest suffering fan bases in professional rugby. So to have those moments of joy, two great away wins, you know, it'll be another occasion against Montpellier away in the semifinal. You know, that'll be a great thing for the region. Y para el rugby de Welsh, no hay mucho en términos de green chutes, ¿no? Así que un rato en el Challenge Cup. Es la funny cosa con el Challenge Cup, ¿no? Porque, let's ser honest, no se cover mucho mucho, generalmente, cuando llegas a la semifinales y finals. Pero un equipo como el Dragons es probablemente exactamente quien el Challenge Cup es realmente bueno para.

5:01Elgan Alderman: Sí, creo que yo probably menciono cada vez que un nuevo competición nos da un nuevo nivel de vida, un oportunidad de parcerse de bad resultados y encontrar un buen resultado. I think it's the first time in 10 years and it was Montpellier the last time as well that they faced in the semifinals. So basically it's the first time in 10 years that the Dragons have had a series of knockout wins and have something to celebrate where there's jeopardy on the line every game.

5:31Charlie Morgan: Who's having a good season for them? Who have been the stars of these last couple of big games?

5:35Elgan Alderman: There are a few good overseas players like Fiene Anissi in the backs. Rio Di has fallen out of favour with Wales. He's always doing really well for Dragons. Some other long-standing local boys in the forwards as well, like Harrison Keddy, these guys that have just been ploughing away in a team that loses a lot of rugby matches, but also someone in the Wales team like Aaron Wainwright as well, who's playing international rugby and losing a lot of rugby matches. That's why for these guys, it is just a great opportunity for them to get over the line and actually celebrate some success on the rugby field.

6:06Well, there you go. Dragons get their mention. If I bring us back onto the Champions Cup y algo que te mencionó, Charlie, sobre el Bordeaux-Toulouse se sienten un poco más como un test match compared con Bath-Northampton. Es una cosa que me ha quedado, la contraste en styles entre el high-scoring All-English affair que la defensa, por un poco de los tries, fue un poco más que bueno en comparación con el All-French game en el que fue mucho tighter, fue más como un test match. Es probablemente algo que me ha quedado en el weekend entre esos games.

6:37Charlie Morgan: Sí, no sé si hubiera algo en... I mean, first of all, we should say that there are test matches these days that are like that. We were at one at Stade de France, weren't we? Where it's helter-skelter and it feels like it's going to come down to the last play even and who scores last like a sort of basketball affair. I would say that maybe the Toulouse-Bordeaux game felt a bit tenser because of how much jeopardy there was on that game. That felt like a final and I felt like their sides were, As much as they'll say, I know Maxime Lucu's spoken about, you know, on to the next one and has given a load of respect to Barthas, they will do.

7:15Charlie Morgan: But it really felt like whoever won that and came through now sort of big, big tournament favourites, you would say. And that was always likely to be the case, whoever won out of those two sides. Big bodies, so it felt like more like a test match. Sort of a lot of Bordeaux's defence in the first quarter was just fearsome because Toulouse just threw everything at them. Y sí, y un poco más crafte sobre la kicking game, y eso fue un poco más influencial también. Pero sí, sí, dos contrastes, pero compelling games.

7:45Elgan Alderman: El Barthol-Vantero partido de la mitad de la mitad, porque, ¿qué fue? 35-26 a mitad de la mitad. Yo estaba en la Ritma Athletic Grand para ese 40-year anniversario, así que me quedé en la primera mitad de la mitad de la mitad de la mitad de la mitad de la mitad de la mitad. Pero, como Saturday, más de una persona me dijo, To me and said, did you see that game last night? I haven't seen it yet. I'm looking forward to getting home to watching the highlights later. People waxing lyrical about was it Archie McParlane's sort of one-handed flick on? Was it him in midfield doing that? So it had people that are maybe not necessarily dyed-in-the-wall prem rugby watchers or watchers going, have you heard about that game?

8:21Elgan Alderman: I can't wait to go back and watch that

8:23Charlie Morgan: It was a real kind of exhibition of I thought, excellent coaching and you're right to say that some of the defence was pretty soft that Ollie Sleight Holmes try that was a pretty well Oli Slyton was deceptively powerful but I think he brushed off four players on what was a kind of route one strike which Bath will be pretty disappointed with Did Tom Dunn have a tap and go for five as well when he tapped and go went straight over looked a little bit easy and there were little bits of Phil Dowson was shout out to our colleague Dan Schofield here Phil Dowson came in and his demeanor in the post-match was almost disarmingly buoyant and somebody asked him about the Pollock penalty which might get onto later, that was obviously a pretty contentious way to shape that last five minutes, I'm not sure whether it absolutely decided the game but certainly shaped the game at the end but Phil Dowson was asked by Scoey sort of is it any sort of consolation that that game was actually phenomenal and Dowson just went no mate it really wasn't, I'd have rather lost by 40 y entonces we thought he might have been joking y he went genuinely so it was kind of like yeah but it was a sort of I thought it just showed Van Graan as always spoke really well and actually said I actually wasn't too I wasn't too flustered throughout that game so when Northampton were 35, 14 and 28, 7 earlier sort of up in that first half and it looked like they were just running amok with some really clever stuff

10:04Charlie Morgan: se encuentra en please

10:30Charlie Morgan: La players exude this confidence and conviction that they're going to come on strong at the end of the game. That's really, really powerful. I wondered whether for a lot of that game whether we were seeing the importance of European experience in that Northampton just came out of the block so fast. I was thinking, is this because this is a Northampton team that have gone deep in Europe previously, that got to last year's final, that understand how to win on the road in these away games. But then, as you say, the quality of that Bath bench, a lot of credit to Bath really. y a mí me ha dado por esos beneficios en ese juego no panic el bench comes on y ha un impacto y ven a la hora totalmente yo creo que eso es exactamente mi pensamiento antes de la game que Saints se han won en la rec tres días después de la noche con un rotación en un juego que felt como un poco de lo que sucedió en la fría pero han tenido este run desde el un un tres tres pasos sin en la Champions Cup han tenido un un un un un Quartafinal Final Semi-final Final Quartafinal They were going for a third consecutive semifinal Which is the first time that a Prem side would have done it Since Saracens in that golden period for them And they've won at Thoman Park Lost at Sversfeld In Poe as well And obviously in the Viva Stadium And they looked Really comfortable with the occasion And they looked like they knew they needed to start fast And did so So as I say, for Bath to stay calm

12:10Ya, ya, ya salió la recuerda, at Twickenham.

12:24Elgan Alderman: Yeah, I sort of teed it up accidentally in last week's podcast saying how the beauty of these one-nation clashes is that it does create the possibility of a revenge narrative later on in a slightly different tournament. We've seen how Bordeaux and Toulouse can go toe-to-toe in different competitions and the result can switch between there. So yeah, I think plenty of neutrals would be looking forward to a Bath-Northampton final were that to happen. Do you think privately Northampton will be thinking, maybe not saying, but might be thinking, we've got them here, lads. We get them at a neutral venue in a final and we'll turn them over.

12:55We've beaten them once already at the rec. We should have won in a quarterfinal Friday night at the rec and look, it was a great game. We'll come on to the yellow now, as I say, and things change games and it slipped away late on. But do you think privately Northampton actually would be quite confident that if it came down to that showpiece event, they'd be able to get revenge on Bath?

13:14Charlie Morgan: 100%. That same press session that I'm talking about, first of all, should apologise to George Furbank because he came all the way across the pitch, y no sé dónde lo changing rooms a la rec versus dónde lo mediano es básicamente la full length de la pitch y él arrived late y luego el session basically finished así que él ha hecho que todo la length de la fila pero como Frasier Dingwall leapt uno de los lastes de la pregunta fue ¿qué ha hecho Bath again en dos weeks? ¿qué ha hecho Bath again? ¿qué ha hecho? y él ha hecho dos weeks y ha hecho y ha hecho así que se han hecho muy attuned a lo que se ha hecho lo que se ha hecho lo que se ha hecho lo que es un All Out Assault on the Prem And I feel like that game is actually Before Bath semi So Bath will, you would think, rotate And that doesn't necessarily mean it will be a weak Bath team Because they've got a very strong squad But it will be a chance for Saints To give themselves a bit of daylight at the top Secure a home semi-final And then be All Out, as I say, to Win that title again

14:11Elgan Alderman: Moments like that aren't huge But it's nice when an athlete kind of acts like a fan Where they say, I know when we're playing Bath again Whereas we're so used to them saying, oh, focus on next week, whatever. I don't even know where we are on the table. It's nice when you know, yep, they know what's going on.

14:26Charlie Morgan: Saints are really good for that generally, actually. Their personalities really come across and you really see the sort of level of care that they have, especially with someone like Dingwall. Look, OK, let's do the Pollock yellow card discussion. How do we want to attack this? I mean, in a way, in a sense, Charlie, is there far too much focus on this one incident, given that it was an 80 minutes of, you know, however many points, so many different things can go against you or go for you across that period, that when we really focus in on one decision, which wasn't even right at the end of the game, it almost does, I think, a bit of a disservice to the game and to the officials and that sort of thing.

15:06But give me, you were there, give me your views on this incident.

15:09Charlie Morgan: I think you can think that because I do think that Saints were going to have to absorb more pressure from Bath and Bath's bench had all come on and were looking like they were with a score down. They were very much felt like they had impetus in the game. I think you can think that. I think you can also think that it's a wrong and kind of pivotal decision. I think it was the wrong decision, by the way. I'm not saying that. No, no, no. No, I agree. y siento que preguntando enَiefo inspectioní una decisión prueba cebolla

15:48Charlie Morgan: es direct�CL

15:59Charlie Morgan: ¿Se hace saber que se rahida que es que sea peligroso si no es de la vista de la vista de la vista de la vista de la vista de la vista de la vista que realmente no es que no es que Pallet era muy maloqué que la pena se hubiera ido la otra pero si ve creo que es Freeman que hace el ataque en Arundel es impediendo la batalla un poco como se rolls back out so many moving parts so many moving parts es difícil creo que Andrew Bray podría haber potentially más de más de más de más de más de más de más de más y y y y y según lo que estoy hablando de la movilidad de la movilidad, la call es que no se puede jugar y no...

16:35Charlie Morgan: Creo que era punchy para ir a la pinta y en la primera instancia y luego que se puede jugar y a la caza y luego que es muy punchy y luego cuando se piensa que es probablemente la pinta de la pinta y es muy grande. ¿Cómo se puede ver?

16:47Elgan Alderman: Permisión de jump de la gun en la TMO aspecto de esto. Sí, go on. Yo he visto que es una decisión que es una decisión así en la pinta que el TMO se puede ver en la pinta de mi view de eso es absolutamente no porque mi view on the TMO es que los sports que hacen lo mejor rugby league y cricket TMO intervention es down to player challenge y ha almost shifted the entire basis de cómo people view decisions porque ahora en cricket ellos go, oh, que es un terrible review o que han perdido sus reviews y no piensas de la unión en la involvement de la misma el problema con el rugby union en el captor de challenge es lo que Charly ha alluded a ahí y yourself Alfie donde si lo vea en el break down y podrá decir que su cabeza es below su hip pero que los dos son los dos son los dos de los pies y es un poco en el lado así que creo que es muy difícil para employar eso porque de cómo las cosas van en estos situaciones pero generalmente mi opinión es que sé que es tarde en el game pero no quiero ver TMOs que no creo que ha sido que ha sido que la break down one wrong I guess the reason que yo estaba hesitant en cómo tackle this es que creo que es algo en el game at the moment Es algo que yo estaba muy consciente de en la última World Cup y creo que será un gran feature de la próxima World Cup.

18:01Creo que continúe a ver en la gente en el mundo ahora con social media. De los que se han visto en la gente, grabando, wobbily, videoing su TV, highlighting individual decisiones que, como hemos dicho, hay muchas cosas que se han visto que no se han visto. Y realmente, zoning in a estos, y zooming in, quizás es una expresión, a estos individual decisiones. I actually don't think we really get anywhere and I think if the wider discussion is the standard of officiating which I'm not saying should be the topic we're having or the discussion we're having off the back of this single incident but then I could get on board with it more if it's a wider discussion but I just think we're heading into and are in a dangerous position with on social media people go on and because their team had a decision go against them they highlight it and I just don't feel like it's all that productive in terms of the overall discussion and I do think it was the wrong decision from Andrew Brace I think the yellow card fue harte, creo que la pena debería de irse pero si es Northampton por qué no nos hablamos de la Tom Dunne de la toma de la pena 5 metros donde se va a irse a irse a irse y se puede hablar de so many otras áreas de la game por la que Northampton loste a la que no creo que se puede llegar a la gente cuando estamos diciendo que la team lost porque de esa decisión de la decisión

19:14Charlie Morgan: Sí, como Dowson mencionó hay loads de controllable aspectos que sort de got away de Saints un poco y es muy interesante So Henry Pollock is just going to be at the centre of this a lot because he goes hard at breakdowns. I think he's probably a little bit smarter than he is generally given credit for as well. So I think potentially over the course of his career he will get to the point where he is subconsciously favoured by some referees because they go, actually, well, Henry Pollock's quite smart, so it will take a lot to penalise him. Does that make sense? You get a lot of sort of really crafty breakdown operators.

19:49Charlie Morgan: Same with the scrum actually where you're thinking well they're legal a lot of the time so maybe here it's a little bit grey but no let's go with him being legal. He was just before so it set up what's the situation that set up the scrum from which Bath attacked for that Pollock Yellow. He got back to rescue a situation when Finn Smith had thrown an interceptor Ollie Lawrence. He got back he tackled and jackaled I think and that looked 50-50 and Brace actually said he was legal. y dijo que era solo un knock-on, pero cuando Brace initially blew up, yo pensé, que es un penalty en el yellow. He got on the right side of that one, he got on the wrong side of the next one.

20:29Charlie Morgan: I think over his career he will get on the right side more often because I think, as I say, there will be this perception that he's actually smarter. Yeah, I mean, obviously there are times where we have to discuss officiating and all that sort of thing, but I think what I'm trying to say is it's about doing it in an intelligent way which is actually worth our time, whereas I fear A lot of the time with social media, it just turns into flinging accusations and things at officials, and it doesn't actually get us anywhere. Having been lucky enough to sit with refs while they do their review process, I cannot stress enough how thorough this is and how they are always thinking about different scenarios.

21:06Charlie Morgan: They think about things in quite a lateral way, and their standards are very, very high. They will be held accountable for these tiny, pivotal, yes, but very dynamic moments by their peers, by assessors. It is a thorough process. Okay, so in terms of Bath then, if we maybe just shift it back onto the victors here. The question now, Elgin, can they beat Bordeaux? That is the next great challenge for this Bath side, isn't it?

21:35Elgan Alderman: It truly will be an absolutely mighty victory. Es baths first semifinal, ¿es it, for 20 years? Since Chris Malone was playing at Flyhalf, I think it was. Again, was it Beiritz in that semifinal? So, look, it'll be a huge historic occasion for them. They've broken that domestic drought, and now they're looking to go that step beyond. So, you just know that will be a huge occasion. The game may not live up to the billing, but I suspect it will, because it's Bordeaux playing in Bordeaux in front of probably 42 ,000 people. I'm sure lots of bath fans will be looking to flock over there, porque Bristol had 1 ,200 going to Toulouse cuando había muy poco anticipación de victoria.

22:13Elgan Alderman: Same con Leicester, con Leicester, con Bordeaux. Bath are going to go there con hopes de hacer lo que Harlequins en un poco más de la situación un poco más de la situación a un poco más de la situación en Bordeaux. Es teed up a ser un buen domestic crunch. So Bath make the trip to take on Bordeaux. Great semifinal. Glasgow 19, Toulon 22. We were talking to Mark Palmer last week about It felt like it was on for this Glasgow team They've been going brilliantly in the URC They've gone brilliantly in the Champions Cup And then all of a sudden, too long come to town I mean, they're not doing that well in the top 14 Are they, Elgin?

22:49It's a pretty massive shock, isn't it?

22:51Elgan Alderman: No, I mean, the middle of the top 14 is very tight So they're not that far away from the business end But they are, you know, in the bottom five of the top 14 So they're not having a great season Certainly not as great as last year Pero si se ve la nombre de los que tienen en el equipo. Habla Baptiste Serra, Charle Olivant. Estos son top-class internacionales. También hay una de las oldas, la DNA de la club situación. Estos son los que han sido un club que ha sido un partido. Estos son los que han sido un partido de la importancia. Estos son los que no son serían que serían. Pero creo que es un gran oportunidad para Glasgow.

23:27Charlie Morgan: Dreyant, en el lado de la izquierda, ha sido uno de los formadores de Europa. para mí, eso es obviamente un gran cosa que se dice. He no está en el france.

23:37Elgan Alderman: Pero él se ha llamado a la squadra, ¿no? Obviamente, es difícil de llegar a la Bira en un wing y Atisogbe en el otro. Pero él ha sido el reconocimiento.

23:45Charlie Morgan: Él es bueno, es un excelente player. He interviewed Ben White en la week, en la lead-up. Y creo que había un sentido... Will Collier actually mencionó, ¿no? Un poco de weeks ago. He dijo que porque Toulon han sunk a donde han sunk en la top 14, almost el focus es... El focus es para ellos. que este es su mejor chance de silvore. Y con el pedigree que Erg mencionó, Glasgow fueron missing con el ruido de injuries. Ellos no solo no se han ido sincronamente sobre el paso de 80 minutos. Toulon had big moments, put together some really nice multi-phase tries. Pero sí, ellos se han ido a la semis. ¿Cómo fue un gran oportunidad para Glasgow?

24:30¿Verdad que hubiera sido la segunda semifinal?

24:32Charlie Morgan: Justo lo que hicieron en la pool stage para ganar la right para ser en Scotland todo el camino a la semifinal creo que es muy guttoso ¿Y qué ha visto Leinster en la otra quarterfinal? As we expected, Leinster 43-13 el más uno-cidado porque Leinster han tenido un buen season ¿no? I suppose que la pregunta off the back of this game ¿Have you seen enough from Leinster to say que realmente could win the Champions Cup? porque no hemos hablado de ellos en los términos, no comparado a otros seasons, pero cuando se trabajó bien contra Sale, se trabajó muy bien. Un poco de cosas aquí. Creo que Hugo Keenan dijo que después de la edinidad de Edinburgh en la última round, que la semana que hubiera sido o el dos meses de la edición que hubiera sido la primera vez que hubiera todo el internacionales y que es malo.

25:21Charlie Morgan: Es el principio de April y que hubiera sido la primera vez que hubiera todo el mismo en el mismo lugar, como Keenan pute. So they will naturally be building a bit of impetus And it's natural probably to think that With the amount of players they had on the Lions tour That this season would have been really difficult anyway I don't think they've been totally convincing Any lost at home to La Rochelle Leicester made life sticky for them at Welford Road as well But they've got so much quality there And actually they're boxing clever as well With the injuries they've got They've been decimated at Loosehead for example Sale did, I genuinely thought Sale I know Barnsley's torn a strip off them today in his piece and saying that they sort of were very unimaginative when they went over there.

26:05Charlie Morgan: But I did think that their best chance was always going to be aerial pressure, scrum pressure. And they applied a bit of that. And Leinster was still able to sort of get through a really difficult first half and pull away very convincingly and win by 30 points in bad conditions. And it's ironic, isn't it, that we have been sort of monitoring them, más closely en los últimos años y han fallido short. Y este año, cuando han deslido un poco de la lima, han quedado en un muy fuerte en el momento, diría, para que se haga el final. I thought exactamente lo mismo en que para años, coming into el Champions Cup, ¿está Lentz?

26:39¿Está bien? Y ellos often, sometimes, did. Sometimes, ¿está bien? ¿Está bien? ¿Está bien? ¿Está bien? ¿Está bien? ¿Está bien? ¿Está bien? ¿Está bien? Estás bien, este año, no. Así que, ironically, ¿está bien? ¿Está bien? ¿Está bien? ¿Está bien? ¿Está bien?

26:59¡Gracias por ver el final!

27:25Elgan Alderman: should be here. I think a lot of people thought they should have been there. Same one with Bordeaux and the Pollock thing during the last final where they mangled words that he didn't even say as a thing that, oh, he doesn't rate us, whatever. For Lensia, they can use the element that no one thinks we're going to win and no one really wants us to win other than our own fans because we are the bogeymen of this competition so it's quite easy for them to get up for all these matches because they might be sitting there thinking, everyone thinks we're always playing at the Aviva, everyone thinks we get lucky and now everyone's talking about the two B's, Bordeaux and Bath so it'd be quite easy for them to manufacture plenty of gumption to go into these last two games possibly

28:05Charlie Morgan: Yeah, I'm all for players manufacturing beef and finding out about it, that's great but yeah, I would say that they've earned this draw, right, because they do so well they are just so relentlessly consistent and dominant in the pool stages and yeah, even Even with that flicker of potentially going to Glasgow in the semi, they've now lasted the course and lasted longer than Glasgow. So they've got this home-ish semi. And maybe it's a bit of karma for Ireland's brutal World Cup draw last time out. You could say that. I'm not sure that most Ireland fans say we'd rather have the World Cup draw. Yeah, probably.

28:44But maybe so. So in terms of those semi-finals, it's the first weekend in May. Leinster against Toulon on the Saturday and Bordeaux against Bath on the Sunday I wonder how many Bath fans are going to be pouring over to France what a great weekend that will be we'll leave the Champions Cup there next up we'll have a quick break we'll come on to the Women's Six Nations which got underway over the weekend Just a quick breather to tell you about today's sponsor Allianz a partner that's all about opening rugby up to more people their support goes way beyond Allianz Stadium Through the Allianz Future Fund, they've already put over£100 ,000 straight into community clubs across the UK, helping fund projects that bring new people into the game.

29:28And with the Allianz Kickstart Programme now reaching 5 ,000 schools, thousands of kids are getting their first taste of rugby, some for the very first time. If your local club could do with a bit of a lift, check out the link in the show notes and nominate them for an Allianz Future Fund grant. ¡Bien! ¡Selizos de años, Rafa! ¡Sopla, sopla!

29:52Charlie Morgan: Cuando cumples 45, te toca soplar muchas velas y examinarte contra el cáncer de colon. Usa la prueba de Cologard Plus en la privacidad de tu casa y envíala de regreso para obtener tus resultados. Los productos Cologard están indicados para la detección en adultos de 45 años o más con riesgo promedio de cáncer colorectal, solo con receta médica. Visita Cologard.com para más información. Pide la prueba de Cologard Plus a tu médico. Para más información en español, visita cologard.com-prueba.

30:45Elgan Alderman: 77 ,000 people there, which wasn't quite as many as the 81 ,885 at the World Cup final, but it was still a huge attendance. First time they played in almost seven months since that World Cup final. So it felt very much like a homecoming, a huge occasion. Lovely sunny day for the most part at the National Stadium. On the field, a lot of rust. They did not play well. Of the 34 wins in a row, I think it was probably in the worst five en términos de cómo se ha jugado. Tiene muchos nuevos combinaciones, muchos absences porque de injúmenes, porque de cuatro pregnancias en el pack solo. Entonces hay un montón de contend con, pero no se han ganado y no han ganado desde el 2022 World Cup final.

31:30Elgan Alderman: Entonces, lo continúe es el jugador, pero hay algunas preguntas sobre lo que puede suceder durante el resto de este año, sí. Sí, estoy interesado en esos preguntas. Yo creo que si me hubiera para que empieguen, back on you it would be to say that they didn't play that well but they won 33-12 and also you would expect England to continue to get better wouldn't you throughout each round of the Six Nations. You would expect them to get better. The other thing at play like you mentioned is they're now basically going to be having their third choice lock pairing because they're missing they're already missing three through pregnancies and then Morwen Natalian suffered what is expected to be a tournament ending injury.

32:08Elgan Alderman: Natasha Hunt as well, Scrum Half, another tournament ending injuries so we've often suspected that an England's second team might be the second best team in the women's six nations and we might now find out if that's true because there is going to be a third choice lock pairing you're going to have uncapped players playing you're going to have Lily Ives Campion who was the youngest member of the world cup squad being the leader of the second row and leading the line out we've already had a 19 year old Haini Alalatoui make her debut in a position que no se normalmente play en. Así que es interesante ver qué pasa en el 5 de la pack.

32:42Elgan Alderman: Hay una oportunidad ahora para Flo Robinson, que ha tenido una capa, que probablemente se puede ir a la scrim half. Vamos a ver una rotación en 12, donde Helena Rowland played esta vez. Pero alguien como Sarah Parry podría hacer su debut en esa posición. Así que hay muchas oportunidades para que se crezca depth. Hay muchas oportunidades para John Mitchell para ver a un nuevo players y ver qué pasa. Si se ven a Grand Slam con todo esto, es un otro statement de cómo afuera de todos que están. Sí, sí, hay un poco a poco de que se unpacken. Y podría ir en dos diferentes direcciones. First de all, ¿es decir que la Red Roses podría ser ahí para ser got en estos seis?

33:25Elgan Alderman: Sí, creo que, estamos viendo hacia la final round contra Francia en Bordeaux. I still, even con, let's say, 19-year-old debutante Demelza short in the second row you'd still think that they've got more than enough to win certainly those first four games and you'd still wouldn't suggest that they wouldn't be able to beat France either France was slow to start against Italy again on the opening round but they won 47 so it looks after the opening round like everyone is still where we thought they would be in the pecking order, I know I'm looking a long way ahead now but a lot of these absences will still be the case come September and October que es cuando los Red Roses se van a jugar a Canada tres veces en la casa, en la casa WXV Global Series, se van a la welcoming la Black Ferns a Twickenham.

34:14Elgan Alderman: Así que creo que que son los fictures como mencioné en la semana para el primer test donde a lot de estos absentes se van a ser en play. Estoy muy esperando que los siguen a Bordeaux 4-4 37-37 como es decir. Es interesante ver lo que el equipo se ve como cuando llegamos a ver. Sí, así que la otra side of if I've suggested you know could England have a few weaknesses here because of the injuries and the debutants and all that sort of stuff the other side of that is actually this is an England machine that just keeps on winning plus they're blooding new players and getting more experience in them and if you're everyone else you're just looking at it thinking

34:50Charlie Morgan: what are we meant to do it's almost like a dream situation I think I genuinely think we're at the point now where everybody including that England coaching team are hoping for more adversity and hoping for sort of more Scenarios that are going to be difficult and awkward for the side Because otherwise They're really not learning much I know it will change now With the injuries that had happened But you looked at that side, the Red Rosers side That was picked for that game against Ireland And you thought well the continuity Even though everybody's talking about these pregnancies and these injuries Still a lot of continuity there And that's still the guts of a World Cup winning side So to throw a little bit more adversity I think is certainly a good thing In the long term for them

35:31Elgan Alderman: I mentioned the off-field growth as well Obviously, England are way ahead of everyone else in terms of attendances, but we're looking at Ireland. They're going to be playing at the Aviva for the first time. I think it's already more than 16 ,000 tickets sold. Their previous record is just under eight, so that's already going to be a huge one. England's next match is going to be a historic game at Murrayfield, already more than 25 ,000 sold for that one. So this tournament is guaranteed to be another step forward in terms of the attendances it can garner for these big matches. Pero incluso el hecho de que estamos hablando de 16 ,000 y 25 ,000 como los países de los países, comparado con la ingles de 77 ,000 en Twickenham y el Ashton Gate, donde todo es soldado, excepto un par de hospitalidad, etc.

36:17Elgan Alderman: Están en el juego en ese momento. Sí, como usted dice en tu primera pregunta, hay más de la off-field stuff y de la on-field stuff. La off-field stuff es brillante. I was reading algo sobre el weekend. Ten años atrás, el Red Roses, en frente a un par de mil personas. y ahora estamos hablando de los 70 ,000 en Tricanham de la final de la final. En el campo, quizás es muy difícil de decir, pero es el gap que se ha cerrado en un momento? Porque yo veo que es y creo que es overwhelmingly positivo. Es un lugar increíble y un lugar que la women's game ha sido en un espacio de tiempo. Pero en algún momento, desde un punto de vista, tú necesitas que se cerrar.

36:55¿Hay alguna signo de eso en el momento?

36:57Elgan Alderman: Si te lo miras, si te lo miras, ¿Qué es lo que piensan?

37:29Elgan Alderman: es lo que los fans de la women's game expectan de la men's game. Porque yo puedo entender por qué alguien que no no es yet bought into la women's Six Nations podría pensar twice sobre eso porque you know England are going to win every time. Yo puedo entender. Si no es un Red Roses fan, eso es probablemente no el más apetecido en el mundo. Y yet, el Red Roses da attracte un gran crowd de personas que no sé qué es lo que no es como ver su equipo. lose so they almost don't want to turn up and think oh this could be a 48-46 humdinger which it can be against France in these women's Six Nations matches it seems that they turn up thinking I might get an autograph and a picture with Meg Jones, Ellie Kildun, the two players to get the biggest cheers at the ground it's a great day out and I get to turn up and see the team I like watching win so it's an interesting dichotomy about what fans of this growing version of rugby expect from a day out compared to maybe what the diehards que han sido siguiendo el rugby por 30, 40 años y piensan que quieren que jure, jeopardy en todo lo que se ve.

38:34Elgan Alderman: Pero creo que si se dice a un fan de la menús rugby team, imagina si hubiera won 34 años en un año, yo creo que podría pensar, sí, yo voy a tomar eso. Sí, definitivamente. Yo te digo lo que fue, es un mal ending también, fue el Wales-Scotlande game de la Principación. Wales looking como que se iba a ir a la hora de ir la length de la pitch para ganar. Al un momento, Scotland thought el juego fue over, pero luego se vino a la TMO check en un alto, así que es un penal para Wales y luego les messedes up el resultado lineal pero por un momento yo pensé que se veía la most boncasa enda a ese game. Yeah, y que ocasión es un perfecto ejemplo de la ambición y la realidad can be at loggerheads, porque Wales han ahora estado taking games to the Principality Stadium, que es obviamente un gran step pero la attendencia ahí fue only just over 10 ,000 y los people could have fit in Cardiff Arms Park the same, next door to it, so So it's this situation for the other nations where they've maybe got the ambition to rival what the Red Roses are doing, but they're just not there yet because for Wales, I mean, the result's again another narrow defeat.

39:37Elgan Alderman: They really need to start turning some of these close defeats into victories. They had what we thought might have been a breakthrough season a few years ago where they won three of their five games and then it feels like they've gone backwards again. Sean Lynn hasn't yet been able to turn that around, so it's another narrow defeat. Pero sí, que ocasión fue un primer ejemplo de que la realidad no se quite yet meet la ambición para los otros países. Así que este weekend en el 6th Nación, Scotland-England, Wales-France, Irland-Italia. Estoy seguro que te va a la escolaridad del campeón, pero lo que te ha visto en todos esos filhos?

40:10Elgan Alderman: Sí, sí, obviamente, va a ser interesante ver cómo Wales can go contra Francia y cómo Francia está tracking en esa primera primera game contra Italia. Just to see if, as we expect They will be the ones that might be able To give England a real proper go You look at what's been going on In the under 18 Six Nations Festival Recently, not for the first time France absolutely stuffed England I think it was 75-7 the final scoreline So for several years now in a row France look like They've got some really good talent Better talent coming through than England But when it gets to the top tier level The Red Roses just have this ability a bring in people and turn it into an unbeatable machine so again we're looking to see what it'll be like in a few years time but for now still very much the Red Roses and that occasion at Murrayfield yes I will be there it'll be another great occasion in terms of off the field growth I think the biggest standalone women's sport fixture in Scotland in terms of attendance so that's to look forward to and also to see who England pick in the pack because that'll be interesting to see as well OK good stuff so Elgin's going to be covering the Red Roses ¿Es, Charlie, para ti, un return to Prem action this weekend?

41:19Charlie Morgan: Heading to Sandy Park to see Saints go up against Exeter. Obviously, very interesting if Northampton can dust themselves off after last Friday night with Exeter flying. That game was a high-scoring draw early in the season, so anything close to that would be very interesting. 33-all in round one, which actually, just looking back, at half-time, Northampton were leading 33-7. They were, and I think Exeter had a potential winner ruled out as well. So it was a totally mad one. So yeah, more please. So more of the same. Well, good stuff. Thank you very much for listening. This has been The Ruck, the journalist's rugby podcast from The Times and The Sunday Times.

41:57If you want to get in touch with the show, then you can do so. The email address is theruckatthetimes.co.uk and then also a reminder that you can now watch the episodes as well. If you want to, head over to YouTube and find The Times Sport YouTube page. We'll be back with you next week. Before you go, we just want to shine a light on the great work Allianz is doing behind the scenes to support the game we all love. We talk a lot on the RUC about Premiership stars and England internationals, but every one of those journeys starts somewhere, usually on a freezing morning at a local club with volunteers, hand-me-down kit and a belief that rugby can genuinely change lives.

42:33Allianz gets how important those places are, which is why they're launching a special edition of the Allianz Future Fund just for RUC listeners. They're offering grants of£500 to£1 ,000 to help local clubs become more inclusive, more sustainable and better set up for the next generation. Whether it's new kit, safer facilities or giving young players the space to grow into tomorrow's heroes, this is a real chance to make a difference. Sign up for the Allianz Future Fund, nominate your club and help support the grassroots heart of the game.

43:11¡Feliz cumpleaños, Rafa! ¡Sopla, sopla!

43:41Gracias.