Lions eye famous whitewash - 3rd test preview

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0:32This is The Ruck, the journalist's rugby podcast from The Times and The Sunday Times. I'm Alfie Reynolds. Welcome back. And I think I've worked out this is the ninth team selection reaction podcast that we have done on this tour. So if you are still with us, we salute you. Alex Lowe, Owen Slott, final team selection, boys. Final test.

0:52Alex Lowe: Which one didn't we do? Ten game tour. The Argentina game in Dublin. Because we were all in different places. Yeah. So ninth in Australia. Alex Mitchell's been in all of them. Yeah. Named in all ten matchday squads.

1:05Owen Slot: That's incredible, isn't that?

1:06Alex Lowe: Which is some achievement, yeah. Good on him. He didn't get on for a couple of them. Andy Farrell was saying he was...

1:11Owen Slot: So he's been in more match squads than you've done match preview podcasts. Yeah, correct. That's the thing he's proudest of, isn't it? Alex Mitchell is ahead of us. It was funny, actually. Today in the press conference, Andy Farrell says, I wish I could have got him on in the second test, but the nature of the game, they wanted to keep Gibson Park on. I was thinking, could have got him on in the game in, was it Marvel or Adelaide? It's the Marvel game, he didn't come on either.

1:34Alex Lowe: Ben White played the whole game that night. But then, like, Ben White deserved it in a way. He was playing so well. For sure. He's unlucky, actually, Ben White, I think.

1:41Owen Slot: Yeah, but on that, I mean, do we not actually like it that he didn't put people on just because that's what people do? Yeah, definitely. These days, subs just get put on just almost, you know, for no reason. Well, I think that teases up quite nicely to chat about this squad. So the headlines of it, many of you would have seen previously. Two changes from the starting 15 that played at the MCG. James Ryan comes into the second row, which means Oli Chessom is on the bench. And Blair Kinghorn replaces James Lowe. James Lowe drops out of the squad entirely. 6-2 split on the bench. And it's Ben Earl that comes back in.

2:15But we've known it all week, haven't we, chaps? This means something to the Lions. The series is done and dusted. They're 2-0 up. But clearly the importance for them of winning 3-0 is massive. and as you've just touched upon, Slotty, the team selection I think is absolutely a reflection of that with how strong the Lions have gone.

2:32Owen Slot: Completely. The conversation in the week has been to what extent do you balance fresh legs and eagerness to go versus those who were the first choice picks? Do they therefore stay the same choice picks? Would there be any sense of these other people deserve it? And everyone does deserve it, but would Andy Farrell be swayed by that at all? Now, I think we kind of knew that that wasn't the way he's wired, but he couldn't have shown that anymore, clearly by picking almost exactly the same team, as close as it could be really, apart from the Chessom-Ryan change.

3:03Alex Lowe: He could have sold it. He could have made a number of changes and still sold it. That's his strongest team. Because I don't think any of us would have quibbled if Tom Curry hadn't been picked. Absolutely. You see Tom Curry after a game, he can't walk properly after any game. It takes a lot of recovery time for him to get back. I never thought he would have dropped Maro Otoji, but Marrow will now have played a 12-month season. He started his season in September. He's going to finish it in August, having broken the recommended number of games that he should be playing. So I wouldn't have seen him drop the captain, but it's just an example.

3:38Alex Lowe: He could have sold a significantly changed team on the basis that, actually, these guys have done the job. They've won the series. They're battered. They're tired. Let's get some eager, fresh legs in. but he's taken the view that there's more in the tank from Tom Curry and Tyg Byrne. Tyg Byrne, I haven't got the numbers, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's played the most minutes on this trip, captaining the team in midweek, playing two storming test performances. He could have done that, but he hasn't.

4:07Owen Slot: You've got to remember also that there are other people who pay these players wages who would just be desperate for them for not to play. So like, you know, Sail Sharks, Alex Anderson, and he would have just loved Tom Curry to have been rested because he wants to get a half-fit guy back again. But to go back to your question, Slotty, of don't you love that they've done this? I absolutely love it that they've done this. We speak about it and we've spoken about it on this pod of how precious the Lions is, how precious a Lions test jersey is. It's why we're celebrating Tyg Furlong that we'll come on to, starting nine tests in a row that's ridiculous.

4:39But the jersey is so precious. So I absolutely love the fact that he hasn't necessarily made those changes, Alex. And what's the stat I saw you tweet, Alex, about the amount of players involved in the test matches?

4:51Alex Lowe: 27 over three tests. It's pretty revealing, isn't it? Very, very tight. So the starting 23 from the first test in Brisbane, plus James Ryan, Jack Morgan, Owen Farrell, and Blair Kinghorn. The only players to have come in, which I think sums up what we're saying and how important. that they're taking this game, the importance of the jersey. Yeah, I love that. I love that stat. Yeah, it's special. There's a lot of talk about how tight the rest of the squad is and how they rely on those players who will have felt some time ago that they weren't going to get a test shot to stay on tour, to provide the opposition, to keep that unity.

5:34Alex Lowe: It must be tough because there'll be players who would have just known that there were what we were calling trust picks at the start who might have thought, OK, the lads have won it 2-0. I'm going to go on the smash with them for all of Sunday and all of Monday. And then I'll go in the meeting on Tuesday and I might get my shot. And they don't get their shot. That's difficult to manage, I would have thought. And it relies on everything that they would have built up until now for that to remain tight. Because I guess, as I say that, they would be under no illusions what Andy Farrell wanted from them.

6:07Alex Lowe: As he has said all along, from meeting one, he set the challenge to this squad to promise themselves and promise each other that they would do what they could to win this thing 3-0. So therefore, it would only have been if he had decided that fresher legs, energy, hunger was needed from other players. But I guess that's why Tom Curry is Tom Curry, why Tigburn is Tigburn, why Marrow is Marrow. These guys, why Tig Furlong is Tig Furlong. these guys don't need anything extra to find the hunger to play this test.

6:39Owen Slot: I kind of think that you get to the end of tours like this and it's a real cliche for them to tell us that they're tighter than they've ever been. They're this tightest group and all that stuff. And you find out over the next weeks and years, to what extent that is the case. But at the moment I'm really persuaded by it. And I think part of the way they're talking I found quite moving almost is when the guys who are playing, like Hugh Jones was talking about, how they have to honour the players that haven't been picked. They have to show them the respect of being absolutely the best players in Britain and Ireland to represent them.

7:17Owen Slot: So, you know, he was saying, I have to do right by Gary Ringrose. I thought, wow, that's really powerful.

7:24Alex Lowe: Andy Farrell said it was touching that whole relationship between those who picked and those who aren't. I'm with you, Slutty. I do buy it. It doesn't mean that players aren't disappointed, players aren't annoyed, or players might not feel unlucky that the games they played, maybe they were played in a role that didn't suit them that day, or the game didn't go their way that day and their chance kind of passed them by, and they can maybe feel that they played in a position where Andy Farrell was always going to pick somebody more senior, more experienced, more trusted, someone he knows. Those emotions will all be there, because it's natural, because they'll be disappointed.

7:58Alex Lowe: it's whether they can keep them internal enough to still give to the rest of the squad or do they just go off tour and there were like joe marler would say that in 17 he went off tour and it's actually now one of his big regrets the way that he behaved out there he said that like because he knew he wasn't in the test team in test thinking so he just kind of went and had his own trip and he regrets it and and they always say that the best the lion the best lions are the lions who don't get picked for the way that they respond and that's really important doesn't mean they're not hacked off or could be could be annoyed at a decision you know I think if James Lowe hadn't played for Ireland and therefore had that relationship with Andy Farrell it's not because he plays for Ireland he has has that long-standing relationship you know he got picked on trust for two tests and I think now the right decision has been made that Kinghorn plays because he's just been so off color so you know it could be there could be wings who think that's unfair there could be and it's I feel like as well to be fair to Andy Farrell he's been justified on this tour in a lot of those big decisions that he's made from bringing Owen in I think what we've seen of Owen you can clearly see why he's brought in and the value he's added to this team coming off the bench in the test series starting Tygburn and Tom Curry and we were saying on form they're not the best players in their position and he was vindicated by the performances we've seen from them so far James Ryan coming off the bench in Melbourne where we were saying wow we haven't really seen much of James Ryan but he had a great impact I think to be fair to Andy Farrell a lot of the big decisions that he has received some criticism for he's been absolutely justified ultimately in that decision making yeah I don't think there's been like a torrent of criticism no I don't necessarily mean from us or anything but I just mean generally those big discussion points yeah definitely discussion points and and take rewind Ty Byrne on this tour has said himself, I don't really see myself as a sixth anymore, I'm a second row.

9:52Alex Lowe: And after that first test performance, when he was monumental, he's like, I knew I hadn't been playing at my best. You know, we weren't saying anything that the players themselves didn't know, but what's fascinating is A, the kind of the test match animal. What these players, the very best players, when they get to the highest level in the highest stakes, play their best. So that's an element to it. But also the coaching element and the Andy Farrell influence, the motivation, how he gets these players to deliver their best on the biggest stage. There's got to be a factor too, because you only have to see his record with Ireland to see, you know, they have gone to New Zealand and won a test series down there that they had never done before.

10:33Alex Lowe: They've been number one in the world. Yes, I know they lost a nail-biter in the World Cup quarterfinal, but it was an epic, epic contest that could have gone either way. It didn't. But you get my point. I think he takes a lot of credit for getting... It's not that his selection has been vindicated. I wouldn't be surprised if, as the stories of this tour unfold, we hear what he's done to get those players to deliver. We got a snapshot of it after that first test from Ty Byrne. Andy Farrell pulled the back row aside away from the others and basically made it clear to them that they needed to go out there and deliver.

11:12Alex Lowe: And Ty Byrne said he was putting the pressure on without putting the pressure on. It's kind of an Andy Farrell way of doing it. But he was leaving them in no doubt about what was needed. It was a motivational, he was firing them up. It's just those touches that he has vindicated, you put it off. I think those players he trusted, but he's also gone and that's what coaching is, right? He's got them to deliver on the biggest stages. Yeah, I'm glad you guys both say as well that you feel you believe in this squad when they say how close they are with one another. Because it's the first Lions tour I've covered kind of being out here and in front of them.

11:46But I've totally felt that as well. And I think that also comes back to Andy Farrell and his ability to man manage and motivate. And I agree. I totally believe them when they say that they really are as uniform. as they are.

12:00Alex Lowe: One of the indicators for me was that game at Marvel Stadium, which is the Tuesday game between Test 1 and Test 2. And the warm-up, none of the Test players were involved. There were no what they called travelling reserves. On Saturday, we'll see the Test 23 plus, I don't know, five, six, seven other players that fully kitted up involve helping the warm-up. There were none at Marvel. We were looking out for them. Luke Callandickey was out there helping, but that was it. Johnny Sexton was running 10 in the warm-up you know they were short on on bodies but that that group went and won pretty tough game when the focus of the squad that week was test two it has to have been because that's the game that mattered and they'd had to bring in extra bodies for this the marvel game against the first nations and pacifico and all of those kind of things and yet they pulled they pulled together in a pretty ferocious game and won it and that just that's a bit of an indicator for me I think yeah Slotty can we talk about Tyg Furlong nine test starts in a row one of the

13:04Owen Slot: modern greats yeah I think definitely I mean I think he was a modern great before he did yeah that's true but but um the the kind of the what's what's so amazing about his achievements here is since certainly since the world cup two years ago he's not been a modern great he looked he looked like someone who's passed his best or or whose body couldn't his body had suffered from the ravages of the years and then somehow he's you know to have got back to his to those levels of the past here for three tests in a row is um in that position as well the you know the most attritional position on the pitch it's extraordinary so his season i just i'm just in the middle of

13:42Alex Lowe: writing my piece for the paper this season he played nine games for leinster one for ireland but only once did he manage three games in succession all season and on this tour including in the Argentina game, he's played seven of the ten and started five.

13:58Owen Slot: I don't know what you think about this, Alex, but is there something in this story, the fact that he's Irish, as in he plays in a country where they get really looked after? Because if he played for an English club for England where you're playing more games, you can't, the chance, it's just pure fortune if you get to the peak point of the summer when you're playing massive test matches. It's pure fortune if you manage to get to this point in top health. Or maybe that's not true because Tom Curry was sort of managed to be able to get here to explode into his best.

14:35Alex Lowe: Yeah, but his situation is so chronic that if they don't manage him, they know he will break. So club and country and Lions have to be on the same page with Tom Curry because he's had such a major hip operation. He now needs a wrist operation. He needs that management. if anyone's going to get any rugby out of him. Whereas your point, Sotius Ireland, that's just how they do things. And yeah, Tyghe Furlong's longevity definitely owes a lot to the system in which he plays. I recall, like, rewind four years ago, you went to South Africa on the Lions tour. Courtney Laws was actually in quite a similar position that he'd barely played all year for Northampton through injury, didn't think he'd get picked, but was trusted by Gatland.

15:19Alex Lowe: If he was fit, he was going. He was fit, he went. he played all three tests and he was brilliant now he's he he's the opposite point that he was lucky that he'd just got fit enough in time and had and had enough of a body of work that Gatlin picked him but he's played such a long career and has had a lot of injuries and as soon as he's fit

15:38Owen Slot: he gets picked and played I just think in in like a decade's time or something we'll be we'll have some stats that will show that a load of Irish players played longer into their 30s than English players for instance yeah I think so uh round us off just on a couple more on the Lions we'll get onto the Wallabies and then tee up the game in full uh so 6-2 split on the bench I guess they potentially leave themselves short in the back line but that's always the risk you take when you divvy up your bench replacements in that way James Lowe dropping out uh so Blair Kinghorn I thought he was really good off the bench in Melbourne and James Lowe we've been saying Alex throughout the tour that we just haven't quite seen the best yeah it's funny how again

16:16Alex Lowe: how these tours turn out because had Kinghorn been fit had he not done his knee in that Bromby's game he's probably favorite to play fullback in the first test but then we might not have got the Hugo Keenan performances and Kinghorn has been playing there was a time when he was keeping Thomas Ramos out of the Toulouse team playing 15 last season he played left wing he's tall excellent in the air Andy Farrell talked about his unpredictability you know we saw what a dangerous running threat he can be when he came on um at the mcg and yeah i i think it's absolutely the right call i thought it's what they would do and then we got wind uh yesterday that's what they had done and i would have made it made it earlier but again i understand why as i mentioned the trust and the experience of james lowe and the left boot and all of that but i think kinghorn brings all those plus form plus it just adds something different to that that back line and The 6-2 is interesting.

17:12Alex Lowe: It does put Benno on notice again to play inside centre at some point. Yeah.

17:16Owen Slot: I think the dropping of James Lowe, it also just reflects well on what the designs are about. There's some honesty in it. It's like we recognise his form is bad and we're not just picking him because of trust. I wonder what the other players would have thought if he'd kept him in the team. Yeah, exactly. They would have thought something's not quite right here.

17:39Alex Lowe: Yeah, I agree. I understand him getting a second test.

17:42Owen Slot: Yeah, the second test, he was fortunate just because of injuries and stuff didn't quite work to put anyone else to really challenge for it. And then a good example of that, actually, of how these tours work out is Hugh Jones, isn't it? Who's going to have started all three test matches and has had a really good tour. But you feel in different circumstances, is Gary Ringrose certainly at least starting the second, possibly starting all three. But Hugh Jones is here and has played well and is starting all three matches. So I tell you what, we'll leave the lines there. Quick break. Other side of this.

18:13We'll chat about the Wallabies and tee up the game.

18:19Guessing is for game shows, not your business. Workday is the enterprise AI platform for HR, finance and IT. With AI grounded in your context to get work done and done right. It's a new Workday.

18:37okay so Wallabies team news maybe in just a moment who needs to win this game more because I think that even though the series is done there is still so much riding on this match the Lions are going for history and they've spoken about it wanting to win 3-0 the last time a Lions team did that was 1927 so first time in basically a century and the Wallabies are looking to avoid that and not be possibly labelled as the worst team that have faced the Lions or whatever might happen off the back of it so who's the victory more important for on Saturday?

19:09Alex Lowe: I think Australia need it more the Lions have achieved the two-thirds of what they came to achieve they will go home having won the test series which doesn't happen all that often although it happens more often when you come to Australia so Australia need it more definitely I just wonder whether they can if they took such a an emotional hammering in that last minute. And I think you saw it in the reaction around the kind of hysteria around the Jack Morgan clear-out. It was almost not rational thinking. It was emotion. It was desperation, disappointment. Can they raise themselves again? Now, it would do them the world of good if they could sign off a little bit like the Lions in 2009.

19:54Alex Lowe: Yeah. They kind of needed that win more than South Africa needed. win in 09 to give them something to hold on to to 13 whether they've got it in them to do that I'm you know I wouldn't back them to do that but to answer your question I'd say that for where Australian rugby is and I had another conversation with someone tonight who lives in this part of the world about NRL and rugby and the recruitment of players and how how the NRL are now targeting players at school, 14, 15. Where the sport sits in this country, which we've discussed on the pod, I think they need it more.

20:34Owen Slot: I had an interesting conversation today with John Eales, which is a nice name drop. I spent a lot of time with him with quite close friends and stuff. Oh, good. No, I did an interview with him today. I did an interview with him today, and he was interested on the psychology of, you know, who's going to be hungrier if you're, are you hungry if you're 2-0 up or you're 2-0 down? He sort of laughed. He said, I just think that we kind of overrate the emotional side of this as being decisive. He says, if you're one of those players on either side, any of those players, they want it so much that, he says, I don't think that emotion is really much of a differential at this level of sport.

21:14Owen Slot: He says, it's my points one, two and three, if I was captain, would be about what skills have we got? what tactics can we bring and then how can we make those two work together and he said they'll all be motivated he said we can't unless we're in the room we can't tell who's sharper and who who is hungrier but he said i'd just be really surprised if if the hunger was the was the decisive

21:37Alex Lowe: factor do we retrofit things then a little bit so i was as i was answering that i was thinking back to 2013 and you'd had like the lions won the first test because australian missed a late penalty and And then Australia managed to level the series in the same circumstances. And then the Lions blew them away in the third test. And my sense from, I wasn't out here, but my sense from that was that Australia had given everything they could to get a level, but the Lions had another level to go. And Australia just didn't have it in them to, doesn't mean they weren't passionate and wanted to win, but once the Lions got on top, they didn't have enough to turn the momentum back.

22:15Owen Slot: I don't know yes it's interesting the way we as you say we retrofit stories to fit the school lines I think if you I think if you if you can reach the right emotional points well you reach it Eels's point you reach the expected emotional point and that can take your and that can boost

22:32Alex Lowe: the the quality of your rugby to a certain level so on tactics let's not talk so emotion last week in the kind of personified by Will Skelton, who for half an hour went around dominating physically and therefore sort of emotionally too, because he was at a level. Maro Atoja, you had him around the throat. He was, if you watch it back, that just totally unnecessarily would drag him at rocks and lean on him and bang him with his knee and just causing scraps and trouble everywhere he went. And then if you had to go and clear out, he would clear out with a huge frame, collapsing rucks, smashing people down, leaning on them like a heavyweight boxer leans on a smaller opponent to just try and sap the energy.

23:22Alex Lowe: And he was doing everything he could for about half an hour until his own levels dropped. And you could see it. You can see his influence waning. Even 20, 25 minutes in, you can hear it on the TV. coverage one of the Wallabies players don't think it was Jake Gordon although he was running next to the ref Skelton had been at the bottom of a maul that had gone down and he's like get up Willie we need you get up Willie like he was he was so important to them emotionally because of what he was doing physically he was he was the totem he was the heartbeat of what Australia did but as he faded so did Australia and Itoji ended up being really influential in the second half particularly in the last 20 minutes.

24:02Alex Lowe: Skelton plays again. He had 47 minutes in him, I think it was. What if he's got 65 minutes in him this week playing close to that level? Does that allow Australia to do more for longer? Does that make them more of a threat for longer? They don't have Valentini to back him up, which was key because it was the sort of percussive nature of Skelton and then Valentini around the corner and then Suoliti around the corner and then Alan Alatoa. they do have Tupac can they get him fired up so I think the emotion thing is tied into it's a broader term than just do they how passionate are they how much do they want it can they go and impose themselves enough to make it uncomfortable on the Lions

24:45Owen Slot: on this passion slash emotion thing I think generally if you're in a three match series and one team is 2-0 up I think I think it's fair to say that on the whole the 2-0 team they don't want it as much I think that's a fair rule but I but just because of the way this tour has been and the the the challenge the players set themselves to win 3-0 I don't think that they are going to go down I thought the interesting thing as well for me on John Eel's point is that makes total sense to me kind of the rigmarole of a normal season and going from game to game but is there something different emotionally about Alliance tour or when you know it's a series of this nature that is so big where I look at the wallaby reaction at the end of that game and think surely there's an emotional element to this i don't

25:30Alex Lowe: know it's a really interesting point ty furlong won't play another test match for the lions so as an example the fact that they're 2-0 up doesn't matter to him because he'll never do this again so therefore the state of the series won't impact what he what he gives on saturday and there'll be other players who will have to consider it the same jack conan has started the last six tests for the Lions which you would probably wouldn't have put money on going into 2021 but he's he's started the last success at number eight will he be around in four years time will Tom Curry be around Finn Russell do you know what I mean like so in that sense the state of the state of I think they're all managing fatigue they're all managing fatigue and actually that those two weeks of constant travel you could you could see it in some performances but there's there is something about this this test because they they will never do it again and i think that might be

26:27Owen Slot: one of the ways that farrell gets them going also i don't know in other circumstances i think you mentioned this alex or maybe you asked a question about it but it's it it strikes me as really significant that not one of the players has put their hand up and said i'm done i just can't i can't get i can't go through it again i can't my physically i'm beaten up and they're all they're all bloody beaten up but they've all they all said they want to come back for more I mean you know Furlong if Furlong had said that everyone would have gone yeah quite right or Tom Curry you couldn't you couldn't give any more but they all want it so much so I know yeah yeah let's just a couple more for you lads Alex you mentioned a lot of the Aussie team news so Will Skelton starts again Rob Valentini misses out entirely or is being managed I think they've said which is a a big big loss Alan Ala-Ala Toa is missing through injury Tani Alatupu starts in the front row they've gone back to 5-3 on the bench Tom Hooper is named and Dylan Peach replaces Harry Potter obviously got the hamstring injury in the second test so we've spoken a lot about emotion do you look at this Wallabies team and think they're capable of beating this Lions team um it's hard to no I don't

27:42Alex Lowe: I don't think so, because they gave their very best last week, but didn't have enough to push it for longer than 50 minutes, 60 minutes maybe. 60 minutes because you get to Tom Curry smashing Sueli from behind, split second before Sueli passes the ball out to McDermott. That pass goes, Australia could well have won that game. But the Lions were winning all of those small moments in that game with big consequences, whether it was that tackle, whether it was Finn Russell going for the corner and nailing it to the corner. They were just those things that the Lions got themselves back into the game.

28:22Alex Lowe: I don't think the changes strengthen Australia. I agree. I think they'll miss Valentini. Tom Hooper is a physical, abrasive six. They've tried to keep some impact from the bench with McDermott staying on the bench and Nick White coming in, who will probably be worth a listen down the referee's mic, but you know he's not final match for nick white as well we should say yeah i don't think the changes improve them i thought we we saw them give a hell of a go at the mcg but they couldn't sustain it um if skelton's got a bit more in him this week they might sustain it for a bit longer

28:55Owen Slot: but i agree with alex i don't they obviously would have loved valetini to have played i think that's that's the sort of a headline of their team is that he's not going to play a minute played played a half last time and he was just great I think they're a worse team and and we know that they can't we know that Skelton can't keep going all the way through I know I'm finding I'm finding it hard not to see a really good Lions win here let's finish off with the question I put to Andy Farrell in the press conference have you ever had it where you're like I've got a great question here and then you get the answer and you're like oh that was a bit disappointing I had it lined up and everything but my first question to Andy Farrell in the presser was given the context of this is a team that has constantly spoke about 3-0 and Lions history and that sort of thing.

29:36The Lions are a team that leave a legacy, particularly winning Lions teams. How important is it for this Lions team that they win this series 3-0 in terms of their legacy?

29:48Alex Lowe: Yeah, I think it's very important because that's a... No, it's not important, I was going to say, because that's been their target from the outset. It has been their target from the outset. But when we look back on this tour as a whole, we'll look at the Lions cruising through untested, through tour matches. And so therefore, if they don't go and win 3-0 against one of the weaker test nations that any Lions team has faced in the professional era, I'm just thinking now off the top of my head, it's probably the weakest. Got to be the weakest. Got to be the weakest. Yeah. So the weakest. the weakest they have to go home 3-0 otherwise it feels a little like they fell short That was the answer I was looking for by the way from Andy Farrell

30:30Owen Slot: But they also said judge us by this we want to be the 3-0 team or they said we want to be the greatest ever Lions team that's subjective but judge us by 3-0 well okay we'll judge them by 3-0

30:43Alex Lowe: Well they won't be unbeaten so they can't be the greatest because they lost the first game

30:48Owen Slot: Yeah but as you have pointed out when they post their social media, that first game against the Argentina just has disappeared from their social media posts. It's brilliant, isn't it? To be fair to Andrew Goodman, to be fair to him, on whenever it was we spoke to him, Tuesday or whatever, I think he did say, no, you have to count that game, don't you, to be fair? Yeah, that was my question, Alfie. And we got a proper answer from it. Is that the one that he said, good question to you? And you got a round of applause? No, that was another of my questions. I was sharp that day. That's why he's the chief sports writer.

31:21Yeah, exactly.

31:22Alex Lowe: Every question's a zinger. I know. Thanks, guys. Can we just talk about me a bit longer? I need to take some tips from you. I was absolutely buzzing with my question. And Andy Farr was having none of it. The problem with your question was that you were asking him to speak disparagingly of the opposition that they'd faced and all that. And he was never going to do that. No, I know. All right. Well, I'll tell you what. We'll leave it there, fellas. Our ninth and final team news reaction teeing up the third test on Saturday. we will be with you presumably I think from the Olympic Stadium in the early hours of Sunday or late on Saturday night to review the test series is it going to be a historic Lions 3-0 or are the Wallabies going to salvage something and get a game on the board Alex so our post-match pod in Melbourne was top five in the charts sports charts so let's get it back there yeah this Saturday yeah Keep listening.

32:13We appreciate you. Send us an email as well, theruckatthetimes.co.uk. Follow and subscribe, all that sort of stuff. Not long to go now on the 2025 Lions Tour, and we'll be back with you.

32:24Owen Slot: Can I just ask, we as a tight podcasting team, would we be happy if this podcast is in the top five without Will Callagher on it? I mean, I feel like, you know, you kind of reap what you sow, don't you? And if, you know, we're all tired, we're all managing fatigue, Alex, like the players, or are we Hugh Jones we want to do we'll colour her proud because he's not here today yeah we'll do it four well

32:47Alex Lowe: I don't think there'd be anyone more proud than Will if we were to do it on his behalf he would celebrate more than we would wouldn't he he'd lead us he'd lead us out on the smash just like I don't know who would have done it Henry Pollock probably Bundy I know Bundyaki was playing I don't know we'll work on the analogy Doohan Doohan there you go Slotty did mention to me though as well just before we started recording he just goes oh yeah the test has started hasn't it? I thought, hang on, is that what is Will just up in his room watching the test series? The fifth test between England and India.

33:17Alex Lowe: Okay, well let's not, I suspect he's fallen asleep early. Yeah, I think he probably has. But let's give it, no, he's watching the cricket. Definitely watching the cricket. Watching the cricket, tall fatigue, not able to keep it up. He asked for a rest week, unlike the rest of us, etc, etc. Appreciate you listening. Back with you on Saturday.

33:38Guessing is for game shows, not your business. Workday is the enterprise AI platform for HR, finance, and IT with AI grounded in your context to get work done and done right. It's a new Workday.