Reds vs Lions review as Andy Farrell has another big injury concern

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2:05Alfie: Welcome back to The Ruck, the journalist's rugby podcast from The Times and The Sunday Times following the second tour game out in Australia. As Andy Farrell said earlier in the week, we're touring now and it certainly feels like that. The game's coming thick and fast. I'm Alfie Reynolds and I'm joined here by Alex Lowe and Will Kelleher once again. Hello, gents. Alex, he's calling them tour games already. We've converted him immediately. He goes to a one-line store and he's calling them tour games rather than warm-ups. I feel a little bit sick, but, you know, anything to placate you guys. Anything to placate you guys.

2:37Alfie: But we are here in the TalkSport commentary position. So if you hear maybe a slight buzz in the background, there's loads of equipment and we're kind of crammed into... The one I had in Perth, which I don't think you guys saw, was spacious. This is pretty cosy. I'm surprised you got in here. This is a salubrious setting. Do you think Andrew McKenna, Ben Kay and the producer are going to fit in here once they're here for the Test match? Yeah, that is a couple of big hitters, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. Great view though. The Suncorp, we were just talking off air, Alex. Awesome ground. I love it.

3:06I think it's a proper, tight, steep rugby ground. I mean, we were chatting. It was Principality Stadium and here. They're not as big as Twickenham, but this might be my favourite. I think we were here with England in 2022 and it was jumping that night. Like the Aussies had won the first test. Eddie Jones was in town. They were giving England players loads of grief. I've sadly not been here for a State of Origin game, but watched Origin games on telly from here. And it is just, it's so close and steep. And when we get to the Lions' first test here, well, it'd be worlds apart from what it was tonight.

3:45Yeah, yeah. We got the sort of usual Mexican wave, which does feel very warm-up game rather than tour games. and I don't know, this is a call to arms to people who are coming out later who have saved their money and are just doing the test series and I know that will cost them a hell of a lot so they're hardly saving that much money but bring the noise, bring the energy shout, do your lines, lines, lines give us some atmosphere because we've had a couple of pretty low-key games here, haven't we? The problem is, we've got the perfect start in this game and Alfie, we'll go into details but what you want is the host team to take the lead and score as the Reds did and that got the place going but I think we've all seen enough rugby to have been able to forecast where this game is going.

4:30I spoke to the boss before the game, he was like, what do you think? And I said probably 30 points and even if it's tight, the bench, the Lions bench in all of these games is going to be way too strong for the super rugby teams because they're shorn of four or five of their best players who are still in the Wallabies camp. And the Lions are bringing on 50 cap internationals. Exactly, so the depth and the strength of the bench. So the game went ultimately how I expected it to go and that does have a bit of an impact on the electricity around the stadium but it will be very different here in a couple of weeks.

5:06One of the things that's similar-ish to Cardiff is that it's a lovely, busy walk to the ground, isn't it? We had John Fisher on the pod on Monday talking about the Caxton. Just over the road. Which is just over the road. Caxton Street is a whole street line full of bars. So if you are coming for the first test, get yourself in a position there. There's breweries, pubs, everyone's piling out of them. It's a really cool, proper rugby atmosphere, isn't it? It sounded wicked outside before, as we walked in. The music coming out of the pubs and people sort of spilling out on the street. I think it's definitely a place to get here early, enjoy the pre-match.

5:39Alfie: and then yeah yeah that's where it reminds me of Cardiff a bit that I'd love to do a game here as a fan and we're privileged to be able to do what we do but sometimes you come to grounds and you're like god I'd love to get in I'd love to get in those pubs and be part of the fans walking up to it so yeah brilliant first time I've been here brilliant stadium let's get right into it in terms of probably the big story at the moment as we're stood here at 20 to midnight on is it that late already yeah i know it's gonna be a late one boys two hours difference from perth isn't it the six o 'clock kickoff in perth was quite nice wasn't it yeah it's gonna be it's gonna be a late one but so as we're stood here now probably the big talking point is elliot daly off the back of this we'll get into maybe more of the lions performance and steps forwards and blah blah blah elliot daly in the second half picked up an arm injury andy farrell has said that he is going to have an x-ray so again by the time that you listen to this there could well have been an update on that but it didn't look good.

6:35He left the stadium with his left arm in a sling. But the moment it happened, he went in to tackle... Jock Campbell, the fullback. Jock Campbell, his opposite number. And he just had his arm out, stretched. And I just had a flashback of Billy Vunapola breaking his arm. I think it was at the Ospreys. Sort of similar, like didn't look like it could be enough to break an arm but just the way that he sort of twisted, went straight down in agony, got up, tried to carry on, at least get himself into position in the line. I think he was shouting at Tommy Freeman, you've got to make this tackle for me, you've got to make this tackle for me.

7:12But he couldn't move his arm. His left arm was hanging limp. And I just followed him. In fact, even when Hugh Jones picked off the charge down and regathered it and scored in the far corner from us here, I was watching Elliot Daly the whole time. and as soon as Hugh Jones started to streak clear Daley sort of almost shoulders slumped began to make his way towards the touchline ice on his left arm like a look of well I was trying as I was writing my live piece I was like how do you interpret a grimace and a shake of the head and I was like well it's desolation resignation frustration probably going to be all of those things let's hope not because he's had an unbelievable start to this tour to the point where, because he wasn't even supposed to be playing today.

7:59Hugo Keenan threw up his breakfast with a bug, dropped out. Elliot Daly got a phone call coming out of the gym saying, right, you're starting. He has played in the Lions' last 11 games. He's been in the 23, yeah. Been in the 23, which is mad. He's such a low-key, unbelievable Lion. People were rightly saying this on social media when we shared that stat from Top of the Moon GW who follows Glasgow Warriors and does some stats, that he's kind of one of the great modern lions in lots of ways. And we said it, I don't think we said it on the pod, but we had a discussion when we spoke to him a week or so ago.

8:40If he were to have worn 15 in the tests, he would have worn 11, 13 and 15 as a test lion, which only Gareth Thomas, I think, has done in the professional era. He'd worn three different jerseys, starting jerseys. I think he was well on the way to starting the first test. Yeah, especially with Keenan L. Kinghorn only just got here. Yeah, and those guys running out of time now. I think Daly was nailed on. Not nailed on, that's wrong. I think Daly was in a really strong position to be the Lions full-back. And the way he played tonight before he got injured, you made the comparison the other week with Alex Goodes.

9:16Just the time he has and the silkiness he has and I think the intelligence that he has. you know he's evolved his game from the outside centre who first broke through at Wasps if it does end with that that tackle then that would be just just so sad for him so let me ask both of you then

9:33Alfie: the question I asked Andy Farrell in the press conference and see if I get more from both of you it's quite funny isn't it for those of us that haven't covered an Andy Farrell team in detail like we are at the moment we're learning what you can ask and what you can't and how to phrase questions so I asked him with Hugo Keenan dropping out today with Blair not having played yet does that leave you in a bit of a tricky situation at fullback to which he said we've got loads of fullbacks so does it leave the Lions in a tricky situation at fullback if Elliot Daly's out? Definitely and as Daly has proven as we've just said and all those stats he is one of the great versatile rugby players on these sorts of trips like he's found it hard to get into England 23s more recently but gets picked for Lions gets picked for World Cups because he's so valuable because he can play everywhere and also I think there's an element too with him nowadays now he's 33 or 32 whatever which one of those he is he's a good off-field gelling guy as well because only him Maratoje and Tyg Ferlong have done these three tours or done a proper tour in 17 so tomorrow our time the Lions will name their next team for the Saturday game against the Waratahs that's mad as well isn't it and Keenan will have to start that game and or Kinghorn no I think Keenan yeah Because he's missed this one.

10:49Because he's missed this one. So there's an argument that one of them might have to play on the wing just to get them a game. But I think if you're talking fullback, I think Keenan starts because if you're in this position where he's not played yet on this tour, but he needs a game, Kinghorn doesn't need a game. Kinghorn needs to fit into the system. Yeah. Kinghorn's played too much rugby problem. Plenty of games, yeah. Keenan needs a game because he's been injured and now been ill. And if he can play Waratahs on Saturday and then maybe back up or maybe 20 minutes. Brumbies or Anzacs or a bit of bench.

11:23I think he now becomes, as long as he's fully recovered from the bug, he slots in at fullback in between James Lowe and Matt Hansen. I hope they've got some good drugs because I've had a bug in the last 24 hours that sounds quite similar to Hugo Keane's. I wonder if he had the sweet and sour pork in the Brisbane Moor as well. so I don't know if I'd be ready to play a tour game at any time soon but I just think it puts Keenan in the box seat now because Kinghorn will still be jet lagged on Saturday, no question about it and he's got so many weeks to catch up on just terminology and play understanding and that kind of thing and if we look at how the next three games will unfold I think they'll try and get Keenan a start and some bench time but all he needs is game time because right now I think we'd all probably pick an All-Ireland-back three wouldn't we?

12:17Sorry, forecast not pick, we'd forecast an All-Ireland-back three I think Freeman's doing well Nice and tidy, where someone like Dujan van der Merwe does one thing really well and then three things really badly Tommy Freeman's just kind of seven and a half Absolutely, no, it's not a criticism of Tommy Freeman but you just look at the balance, you look at what Andy Farrell said after the Western Force game identified Matt Hanson's performance as the ultimate Lions performance really for that moment of we've probably covered about 200 metres up and back and up and back it's probably Hanson I'd say it's Hanson or Freeman but I just wonder particularly if you've got a fullback who hasn't played that much recently and Lowe and Hanson are so different, Lowe and Freeman aren't the same of course but I quite like the sort of balance that that back three would provide.

13:13Anyway, we're forecasting three games time, four games time, but otherwise, yeah, the fullbacks, there are players in the squad who play fullback.

13:21Alfie: Just two of them haven't, and one of them's a 10. Yeah, exactly, and I don't think Marcus Smith is in contention to wear the 15 jersey in a test match. Tommy Freeman could fill in at fullback. He did it tonight. Matt Hanson as well, I think, has played there before. Yeah, but it's Keenan and Kinghorn who are the nailed on. And if Daly does have to go, then what do you think? Tom Jordan? Well, that's what I was going to just say. Like kind of running through the options. I put out a tweet about this to get some help because in my sort of food poisoning brain, adult state, I wasn't quite aware of all the people who are all over the world.

13:58But options are these, I guess, for fullbacks. Tom Jordan would probably be a top contender, not just on proximity because he's also in New Zealand. Similarly versatile to Elliot Davey. But similarly versatile and had a good Six Nations. Has natural cohesion with Finn Russell, Siena Tupolotti, albeit Tupolotti didn't actually play the Six Nations, Hugh Jones, others that might be in the back line. Then you're thinking Jamie Osborne who's currently in Georgia, so that's a bit of a flight via the Middle East probably and over here. Freddie Stewart's on the England tour who'd probably be lower down that list perhaps.

14:31Alfie: perhaps as lauren jenkins from bbc wales was saying in the presser when we were or just before the presser when we're talking about this blair murray who i had in my squad and if we're on geography like we've been doing a bit too much flight admin on these pods recently but he's a direct flight from tokyo isn't he from the wales tour so there's a few options and i'm sure there'll be others but yeah once you get beyond the guys that are here in some positions you're going blimey and there was some guy on Twitter or other who was saying almost do what South Africa do get rid of a fullback and just bring in Jack Willis go 6-2 got to get Jack Willis out because they need more back rows but it's not a World Cup if you want Jack Willis you can just call him up you don't have to replace him no or the other one the great elephant in the room Owen Farrell we're back there are we well hopefully this whole conversation is redundant and Elliot Daly miraculously is fine but from what we saw it did not look likely at all.

15:26Alfie: Elsewhere, seeing as we somehow got on to back row, should we talk about Jack Morgan? I think he was getting a lot of applaudits off the back of this game. I think in particular in the second half, he had some unbelievable turnovers, didn't he? And in a team where I don't think we've necessarily seen the absolute best of Tom Curry, I thought Josh van der Vliet was good on Saturday, but I think Jack Morgan did himself the world of good in terms of that performance at the right time. And I guess we've sort of flagged this already, but there's probably a three-way shootout for seven. Because to me now, we've seen the sort of two sevens thing twice and it's not really worked they haven't really dominated the breakdown against either the Pumas or the Reds and particularly against the Reds no disrespect to them you'd expect Tom Curry and Jack Morgan to take them to the cleaners at the breakdown and they really kind of didn't so I think our long-term view for the test team is that there's going to be a big six and the line-out struggled again here so do you want someone else to try and help that out and that's basically Ollie Chesson or Tyg Byrne isn't it and you wonder whether Joe McCarthy's made that more difficult because you think if he's got to play and Marrow's got to play that's tough to leave Chessam on the bench almost because and Tygburn's more of a second row these days less of a sixth and he used to be put on a bit of ballast but anyway on the seventh side you think it's between Curry, Morgan and Van der Fleer and Morgan's put his hat in the ring it's funny because I wrote it in our live blog thing in the first half I thought he was pretty quiet but maybe that to start with and maybe that characterised the way the lines were at the beginning of these games they're finding it tough to come out the blocks and like they got stripped in contact a couple of times didn't they Alex and like Bundyaki I thought was just sort of passing the ball to people who were marked and Curry not one on that wasn't really his fault but then yeah Morgan grew into the game got to try I think we've got various different counts for his tackling but somewhere between 22 and 18 tackles um but yeah Van der Vlier was a top tackler the other night that's going to be a hell of a battle and if he doesn't or if he does make it he could continue a record This is thanks to Peter Jackson, the legendary old Daily Mail journalist.

17:27Wales have had a test match lion for 101 consecutive years since 1924. So if he is in there, that continues. And if he's not, that is one of the great stats broken. I think they go with a big six. Same. I suspect they'll go with Conan at eight as well. so they'll have their power eight, their big six, and then probably that means Josh van der Vlera at seven. I would have thought at this distance. And then is Morgan a bench player or do you want a bit more sort of dynamism with Earl? I think it's Earl or Pollock, isn't it? With a Chesson.

18:04Alfie: Yeah, I thought Chesson played well today. Yeah, I'm a big Chesson fan. I would quite like Chesson. Serious work rate, isn't it? I'd quite like Chesson as my six. I could see him starting. I think between him and Byrne, that is up for grabs because I agree with you. I think it will be one of them. He had a nice carry on our side, the near side, that reminded me it was almost exactly like watching McCarthy on last Saturday where you just get those big legs pumping and he looks, he's a good ball player actually, isn't he? He had a lovely little pass for Kohn and then to do Van der Merwe. Because we're entering, we're three games in, so this is other than mishaps like Hugo Keenan being ill.

18:40We're three games in where the mission for the coaches is to give everyone a start. now it becomes selection becomes more strategic i don't think we'll see the full test team out on the field before the first test but i would imagine at this distance that chesham and burn will both be in the 23 i can see them both being in in the 15 mccarthy on the bench i can also see mccarthy on the back of that western force if he can back it up him and marrow will be pretty formidable second row and then whichever of chesham or burn doesn't start just imagine that 55 minutes, we've seen it in these tour games, they're sending on such experience, but imagine if the Lions 55-60 can send on, like Bundy Aki who I think to a process we should start at 12, Bundy Aki Ben Earl or Henry Pollock Oli Chesson or Tygburn Ellis Genge, Ronan Kelleher, like that's so dynamic.

19:35What's the Lions version of a bomb squad? Answers on ruckattheimes.co.uk. I think whichever balance they strike, Byrne, Chesson, McCarthy will all make the 23, and that's pretty formidable.

19:46Alfie: Particularly given the news in the Aussie press this evening as well that Will Skelton and Rob Valentini are looking like they'll miss the first test with an injury. Or at least the Wallabies game against Fiji on Sunday. But that's a nightmare, isn't it? The Wallabies are growing, but they're still pretty thin. Those two are massive for them. Valentini and Skelton, man. They're like the two most important players in the pack, aren't they? Like, they've got to wrap Angus Bell and Cottonwall. With Fraser McRae at seven, who's a bit of a monster on the floor. Which is another reason why, you know, in that test, listen, we've got a week and a half, whatever it is, to consider test selection.

20:21Not long, not long. It is basically all we talk about on this trip, so we might as well reflect it on the pod. Everyone else will be in the bars, won't they? You know, he's a real breakdown burglar, Fraser McRae. I mean, he's properly in the sort of lineage of George Smith and Pocock and Hooper.

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23:12Can we do a minute on Marrow? Yeah. Like, you asked him a question after the game, and he answered it really well, didn't he, about was his performance today inspired by his own sort of personal standards, or the fact that he saw McCarthy play well on Saturday and went, right, my turn. and he said bit of both and answered it well didn't he and played bloody well as well yeah the the most interesting thing that he said was i know that even though i'm captain if i don't play to the standard required then i won't get picked for the first test now that would be the mega story of all stories if the lions captain on form doesn't get picked for the first test but the the fact that he is aware enough to acknowledge that and not rest on his laurels means that captain nobly all right means that he sort of said oh it's a bit of both but really his standards will be like about that must drive that must drive him because you don't want you don't want to be that guy so therefore he's seen how you know McCarthy played he's seen what he knows what Chetam can do and what Burnham I think um that would play a major factor in him coming out here and he got taken off before the end in in Dublin which he never does he never comes off games and he was brought off as the Lions were going to try and win that game.

24:26And that would have stung him as well a little bit, I think. And it's the kind of thing that Steve Borthick wouldn't do, but it's the kind of thing that Andy Farrell can do because this is the Lions. And he can go, right, we need you to up your game. We need you to be the proper standard bearer for this team. And he was tonight, I thought. And I thought that when it was all a bit messy at the start, like it was in Perth, he was the guy flying out the line, banging someone, trying to bring the energy, stripped the ball back like proper old school Marrow. And you remember four years ago, Alex, he gave one of the great defensive performances, didn't he, when the Lions won one of those three games in the Test Series.

25:03As Elliot Daly has sort of almost like a sneakily one-day great Lion, I mean, Marrow's going to be a bona fide, isn't he? And let's hope he bloody survives to the series. They don't need more bad luck with some of these great players. No.

25:16Alfie: What about, do you think concerns for Farrell? It seems like he plays his cards fairly close to his chest, but I think today was a forward step from Saturday. They are still starting quite slowly. Scrum? You've mentioned the scrum. Very messy. There are still things there, aren't they, that you're looking at, and the Wallabies will definitely be looking at and thinking, there's opportunities here. There was sort of coded Farrell, we want some clarity around the scrum, which he was pushed on, and that sounds like Tom English from the BBC was saying that's something that a coach usually says when he doesn't agree with the decisions.

25:48He was like, oh, no, no, no, no. But definitely, definitely. Because it looks because as I think he then doubled down on it quietly by going, I know I've got international standard front rowers. So the bit in parentheses is it's not our fault. Yeah. But it's the set piece is scruffy. You know, the line out first line that was like way too over elaborate. They tried to throw it to the back and got it nicked. The line out is a bit scruffy. The set piece is scruffy. The scrum story is going at 70 percent line out. Scruffy. what fascinates me is their willingness and desire to play so with gibson park and russell they were they played some real beautiful fluid rugby to get to the edges and the handling in some situations was just so slick like got better through the game didn't it but they still have this capacity to mess it up and handling errors and they made line they created line breaks but then couldn't finish them and like it just felt like they are pretty close to to clicking all the time but they don't click quite enough but then you know and but how how much of this is laying a trap for the wallabies because that'd be so elaborate wouldn't it but would it because then leather off it in the okay but if you just take the take the all the conversations we've had about the premiership and the rugby that's played in the premiership and then you watch the six nations it's totally different are the Lions planning to play like this this ambition that they have and run the Wallabies off their feet and try and play quick and fast and accurate and clinical or beat them up or are they going to pick this massive pack and beat them up and play I don't know I'm just throwing it out there they know how smart Joe Schmidt is so what we're seeing now is not going to be everything they deliver in the Test Series and I'm loving the ambition that they're trying to play with here and I think, whose try was it?

27:44Well, in the far corner, there was like, it was two forwards. Is that the Van der Merwey one? It was Chesson, Cohn and Duan Van der Merwey. Chesson, Cohn. And like, there's big lads, big rumbling lads just with silky touch and Russell is throwing the ball so flat to the line and they're moving it so quickly. The ambition is fantastic, but is that going to, are they going to carry that into a test series?

28:06Alfie: And there is a part of me as well, which looking at how the Lions have been attacking felt like it almost plays into Australia's hands because what the Wallabies do have is athletic, skilful players. I remember the game at Twickenham, Will, when England lost in the last minute and one of your big points at the end of the game was the Wallabies' skill set is higher than England's at that time. That's what I mean. But as Will says, that would be a remarkable double bluff, wouldn't it? I'm not trying to insult the intelligence of the Lions coaches, but far from it. I just think it would be a remarkable thing to lay on yourself to go, OK, for the first four games, we're going to show this.

28:43And then, ta-da! It's all going to be completely different by the series. I mean, it would be unbelievable if they pulled that off. But if you want halfbacks who can do that, you've got them in Jams and Gibson Park and Finn Russell. Yeah, and the two points I'd make, one similar to yours, Alfie, is that I would be worried if I'm the Lions, because these little nice knit-together passes that take a while to get going, when they missed two or three, Suu Lili's gone. And there are still opportunities. You're not going to get those balls, you're not going to get let off by the Wallabies on the counter-attack like that.

29:14I mean, they might not be the best team in the world, they're certainly not close to the top five in the world, the Wallabies, but they've got some incredible athletes, some genetic freaks, haven't they, who could just finish stuff off.

29:24Alfie: They've also had the long run-up to the series as well, haven't they? I know some players have been released, but it reminds me a bit of the whole Eddie Jones thing, of you get players into camp before a World Cup and you can get them into a certain shape. So I know the Wallabies only have the Fiji game in terms of actual match preparation, but I feel like they've been in camp long enough that they should be able to get themselves in a pretty good spot. And the second point I'll make at two, which has been made to me, so maybe I'm borrowing this from someone else I've forgotten, but if you're going to do that sort of thing, the great one-two ruse, you've got the best players here who should be able to adapt to a new system quite quickly.

29:59it would still sort of go against quite a lot of conventional thinking I don't think it's that radical I'm not saying they'll just shove up the jumper but I wonder I think they can play this way against Western Force and the Reds and put them away 50 points, 8 tries which may help develop things they want to develop I just find it the next few weeks and particularly the leap into the test how they play they need to get better and more tries Bundyaki was over the line he still didn't manage to score right in the first half

30:31Alfie: Let's round it off then, it always feels harsh this but it's a Lions tour kind of, who's enhancing their chance of a test spot, who's is maybe dropping a little bit? Well, Doohan I mean, he's an incredible offensive player put him in space give him a small winger who he can grab by the jersey and throw into Rosette He loves doing that, he loves doing that but he's a liability defensively and I like we've had these conversations around squad selection it was it's his defensive fallibility that is why I wouldn't have him in by that I mean like we have two two examples of it really today the way he almost messed up dealing with a fairly routine cross kick and then when Hugh Jones rushed up as I think he had to and the red scrum half just just poked that grabber kick through he he sort of caught on his heels unsure and the ball probably didn't do him any favors with how it bounced but he didn't attack it and I just don't see how the Lions could for all his offensive threat and he's a he's a destructive ball carrier I don't see how he can play the test and I think if you're Joe Schmidt we were saying this in the stands Alex when those two kicks went through him you're just going wherever Joseph Sur-Ele is playing he is wherever Doohan is and just cause him chaos all game kick behind him cause him nightmares and yeah unfortunately I just think I can't see a way into the side for him on a positive on a positive anyone else I mean Morgan's Morgan's definitely stated his case hasn't he yeah I mean can't hinder you being man of the match officially named by the sponsors that didn't fly us out here so we won't mention them I mean Finn at Gibson Park has thrown the ball to Finn Russell as he told us himself twice in training and they look slick as anything don't they now that's two world-class players who don't need much time to click and Gibson Park was I mean all the scum halves have been pretty good haven't they poor old Thomas Williams is probably already at home Mitchell was good when he when he came on I think Jack Conan has enhanced in the last since he came to Australia I think he's been big he played six last week he was strong today I think he's probably enhanced his because I wasn't quite sure whether they might go big six and then dynamic seven and eight so a kind of a Ben Earl eight uh and a curry or a van der fler but just maybe maybe connected to the previous chat we just had a kind of a big chess who's not just a lump like he's a proper athlete but conan just you know i thought he was pretty good today so he's probably enhanced his his claims i think and as you said earlier tommy freeman just doesn't like he's just he's sort of the opposite to dohan because he he he's not really a moments player at all like you can watch him all game and and but He just does so many things really well.

33:20Two tries again. Constantly. Takes his tries really good in the air. He doesn't have flashes. He just has this constant level of high quality. If he misses out on a test wing spot to Mack Hansen, Tommy Freeman could not have done any more to earn it. So I think he's had another good night for the Lions. The one thing I think they might have to start doing is pairing country centres together. because I'm not quite sure that swapping them around is working. So we had Bundy Aki and Hugh Jones today and I feel like they were just sort of in each other's holes or not really quite connected. And Sione Tua Pilotto and Aki in the Argentina game looked great on paper but just kind of didn't really fit, did it?

34:01I agree with that. I understand why Farrell in these first three games has done that because he has to, as he said to us the other day, they're all lions now. It's not about nationality. And we're not saying it's about nationality. but I think by splitting them up it helps reinforce that to the squad what we're saying now is it's not about nationality it's about understanding and cohesion yeah there's so much deep sort of telepathy between whether it's Aki and Ringrose or Tuipilotto and Jones that you'd sort of be mad to not try and use that given time I would ultimately want Tuipilotto and Ringrose as a combination but Lions don't have time so on that balance I think Tuipilotto of the four he's the one I would really want to start so therefore I'd probably go with Jones on his outside

34:46Alfie: Yeah I think midfield is a real head scratcher at the moment, Ringro's excellent on Saturday but as you say everyone else and the other combinations hasn't quite worked Who's in, who's out for you if you want to you can email us theruckatthetimes.co.uk that's the email address, we'll be back with you on Saturday night, that time from Sydney following the game against the New South Wales Waratahs It's all pretty good fun this Have you heard about the weather in Sydney? It hit today, a cyclone bomb in New South Wales. And loads of flights were delayed, weren't they? Well, we're flying tomorrow afternoon, so let's hope it's gone by the time we're in here.

35:20Alfie: Hopefully. So we'll be back with you on Saturday. Thanks very much for listening. This has been The Ruck, the Journalists' Rugby Podcast from The Times and The Sunday Times.

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