The Owen Farrell selection dissected

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1:09Coming to you from a nice little deck in Sydney. Beautiful blue skies overhead. The sun is shining. But we had the biggest news of the tour yesterday on our travel day. As we were coming from Brisbane into Sydney ahead of the Waratahs game. and that is that Owen Farrell has been called up to the squad. Elliot Daly, as we suspected, is out injured and Farrell is the man to replace him. I'm Alfie Reynolds. Welcome back. Steve Jones, Will Kelleher and Alex Lowe sitting alongside me. Gents, we always knew that there was the chance Owen would get called up. It has been a story since before the squad was even announced.

1:46But he is now here, part of the 2025 Lions. Charles, there's a lot to get into of this, Alex.

1:52Alex Lowe: I think it was more than a chance that he was coming out. I felt from before the squad was announced that he was always in the plans. The one thing that doesn't quite add up to me is why they waited for an injury to call him up, because I think they always... He'd been monitored by the Lions medics the whole way through from back home. Andy Farrell said that they just felt they were light at 12, but the personnel in the centres, certainly at 12, has been the same the whole time. So I'm not quite sure how that stacks up, but I've always felt that he'd come out. And everyone I've spoken to, close to the Farrells, close to the Lions, has always said, even as recently as the last couple of weeks, Anthony Watson, Danny Kerr, they've all been convinced.

2:31Alex Lowe: Coaches have been convinced. And now it's happened. Now he's coming. There's even been coaches on this tour who've been convinced that Owen should be here from the start. So he's got plenty of acolytes in the coaching group, hasn't he? You only have to go back to November, before Johnny Sexton got the Lions gig. when he spoke I went to see him in Dublin and he he talked about how Owen is the great one of the greatest teammates he's ever had one of the greatest players one of the greatest blokes and if he was Irish he'd be Ireland's greatest ever player Johnny Sexton is now on the Lions coaching staff Richard Wigglesworth was his nine for years at Saracens yeah and nobody understands his competitiveness his drive for standards his like his will better than his than his dad who's the head coach because it's a quality they share isn't it Steve it is I agree with a lot what you said but it's it's become an absolutely catastrophe and a scandal he wasn't picked in the first place if all that's true but first of all I would summarize it by saying given the absolute anti-Farroll backlash whatever when Owen sneezes god forbid when he does a high tackle when he says anything when he does anything i think that for his dad to bring him is the most courageous selection i've ever come across on a lions tour it would so i and i tried to ask andy that yesterday i said look when you realized owen was the man and was deaf definitively the man did you actually say no sorry i can't i can't go through with this because he knows what's happened and it has happened i think it's a great selection this thing about it's a different position to elliot daily if this was an eight month tour it'd be different but it's not they've got enough cover Owen is as the boys both both said he's a great leader I can see it going completely bananas and him coming up with the last kick of the match in the test match and scoring under the post or something like that so brave brave work by Andrew and I'm glad that Owen's coming.

4:28As Steve mentions there's always there's always a lot more noise attached to when it's Owen Farrow I don't think any player moves the needle of engagement and reaction in the way that Owen Farrell does, often unjustifiably with some of the stuff we've seen in the past. I think people that are listening to this that don't think Owen should have been called up, their biggest criticism of it will be form and fitness over the last 12 months in France. He's had a lot of injuries and he hasn't been anywhere near his best form. 100 % I think it is a risk. It is a brave selection, I agree with Steve, but it is definitely a risk because just on the fact of it, Owen hasn't played a match at all for nine weeks.

5:11He got knocked out playing against Lyon for wrestling in the Challenge Cup semi-final. He still has to go through the return to play head injury protocols because he basically hasn't had a team to play with. So when he comes here, he's got to, so he's arriving tonight, Friday night, our time, and he'll need to do some sort of contact training to get through that. So there's that bit of it. He then also hasn't played in international for 20 months. And there is no questioning whatsoever. Farrell's back catalogue of success as a rugby player, his talent, his achievements, all the trophies. Like when Saracens re-signed him, they put out all the trophies, didn't they, that he'd won to sort of go.

5:49The man's back in town. 112 caps. He'll only become the fifth line to make four tours. Willie John, Mike Gibson, Alan Wynn-Jones, Brian O'Driscoll, Owen Farrell. Like, what a set of people that is to join. But we're all talking about things that have happened in the past with Owen there. He has no currency at the moment as a rugby player because of the fact that he's not played much. The stuff that he's done, the sort of legend and lore is all behind him at the moment. And I hope he recaptures it here. And what amazing story it would be if he does. but at the moment we're talking about Farrell in the past tense in that way.

6:28Is that fair, Alex?

6:30Alex Lowe: It's fair because the facts are laid out to us. He didn't play much for Racing and he didn't play particularly well for Racing but I don't think he was fully fit all of our season. He definitely wasn't. He was carrying a groin injury, then he had an operation and then he got concussed. Can you judge the form of a guy who was battling injury in a new club at a club that is a basket case club? I think it was the wrong club for him to go to. A collection of individuals, really, that team, yeah. So there is no form to speak of in the last 12 months, but I think there might be reasons for it. I put a comparison in the paper today.

7:05Alex Lowe: So there's no player in Home Nations who would be picked in the circumstances that Owen Farrell's been picked in. Just like four years ago, there was no player in the Home Nations who would have been brought back onto a Lions tour three weeks after dislocating his shoulder and lead the team into the first test like Alan Wynne-Jones did. There are certain players for whom their experience, gravitas, leadership qualities, and the level of trust that the coach is holding them outweighs any risk or concerns about formal fitness. Our colleague Barnsley, Alex, uses the phrase, rather hates the phrase, test match animal.

7:43For some reason he hates it, but that is exactly the people you're talking about, test match animals.

7:48Alex Lowe: So it could go wrong, But I would say right now that the selection of Owen Farrell is based on the levels of trust and experience that he has. And a belief in the coaches around him, the acolytes in the coaching team around him, who are clearly convinced that he can reach the same levels that we saw him reach, say, in the semi-final of the World Cup in 2023. And if he doesn't, because he's got a month of training now, with a team. If he doesn't, they also believe that his influence of being here will raise the standards. And I think that leadership element is critical, because as we've said before, this is a Lions team that is short of mega leaders.

8:31Alex Lowe: If you think back to the 2013 team that came to Australia, just a number of the Warburton's, O'Driscoll's, Alan Jones's, O 'Connell, like, that's a team of huge characters. This team doesn't have that. I think that's why Sexton was brought into the coaching team. I think that's a major reason why Owen Farrell has been brought out here. Exactly, I agree. Also, he's a great player, but he hasn't played for ages, as Will says. But if we're saying that everyone knew he was coming, or a lot of people suspected he was coming, and a lot of people bet he'd be coming, well, you can't have that. And also, that they didn't monitor him every step of the way.

9:11And I know that Mark McCall has been involved in it, and they've been keeping an eye on him, and I'm sure that he's had a fitness test or he's had a long chat with fitness people. I'm sure he's been training brilliantly. That's the final bit of the jigsaw, that he's fit. He's not match fit, but he is fit to play.

9:30Alex Lowe: If you recall, Steve, when we were at the O2 and Andy Farrell names a 38-man squad and he says there are a couple of spaces open for players who still need to prove their fitness. and at that point Owen was still suffering concussion symptoms so they couldn't pick him and Emmanuel Faiwaboso was trying to come back from injury. I think those two would have come out here if Faiwaboso hadn't got himself sent off he may well have come out as well but you're absolutely right, this has been the plan. He's been monitored the whole way through to the point where they believe he will now come complete the last element of the concussion protocol protocols that he needs to and he'll come straight into the squad now one of the one of the major factors and those people out for you that you mentioned at the start who are questioning this selection is what does it say about finn russell finn smith uh who are the two fly halves what marcus smith even from that day at the o2 in the way that andy fowell explained his selections marcus was never part of the fly half conversation there are now three fly halves here and three inside centres how do they react to the arrival of Owen Farrell who has a a pre-existing relationship with the coaching team that they don't they collectively have spent you know between up to six weeks collective weeks working on this attack building and now Owen comes in there's a there's a challenge to these guys which you know has it has the potential to be disruptive that definitely has a potential to be disruptive the question now is we went and see whether it is or whether they it's managed in a proactive positive way that that it actually ends up benefiting the the setup and i think that is so fascinating because that that exact element you just described there alex has the potential to put a sort of ticking time bomb underneath this trip but i think none of us think like andy farrell but i think if you were to try and put yourselves in his brain maybe you're going what a brilliant challenge for finn russell to go go on then i've even brought in owen still be the guy still run the team don't go into your shell don't look over your shoulder same with finn smith like what a growing experience that would be for him as well battle with one of these this great competitor who i've just brought out here who's going to raise standards because he made it very clear andy farrell yesterday owen's not here to carry a bag he's not here to sort of make people flat whites and sort of arm around the shoulder he's here to compete and he said if he wasn't here to compete for a test jersey what's the point of bringing him so that was a fascinating element too because but if you took it the other way and if you're slightly more i don't know let's use the word precious if you're finn russell or finn smith or marcus smith and you go why is i in here oh i thought this was my team i thought this was our game plan i don't know hang on he's having a nice conversation with richard wigglesworth over there and andy and then he's offered johnny said oh shouldn't i be there do you know what i mean there's this potential there for it to sort of go ah right oh where do i stand now whereas if maybe if you're thinking from andy Farrell's perspective, he's going, brilliant.

12:33I want to put a lightning rod underneath this team. It's all been a bit nice. It's all been a bit soft, maybe. There comes a time on every Lions Tour when people realise, they realise. I was once in a conversation with two forwards in this city, in, I can't remember what tour it was, and I said, you're not getting much of a run. And they said, yeah, the management think we're both Muppets. That's what he said. I think, I'm partly guessing, partly not, I think that they've realised the gap between Finn Russell and the other two. And I don't think they think that Finn Smith, great player though he is, has come through that quickly in terms of being a ready-made replacement at 10.

13:17And I think a lot of this is Finn Russell has emerged as a great player. And I think they think, God, without Finn. And I think that's a lot of it to do with it as well.

13:27Alex Lowe: So the scenario for the critics is that Owen comes out here, he's not ready to play test rugby, and he's also a divisive character that ends up creating a destabilising situation within the squad. That's the scenario that the critics of this decision would paint as the worst possible case. He's got no form, he's barely played all year, can his body last the rigours of a Lions tour? the impact it could have on the others. And I guess, sorry, to add to that critic's point, there would be a perception that he's in a VIP lane. He's circumvented the usual route. Someone like George Ford or Tom Jordan or someone else had a more genuine path here.

14:13That would also be part of the critic's view, wouldn't it?

14:17Alex Lowe: Definitely, but I do also... I think it's important to recognise that you can state a pretty solid case for why this shouldn't happen. Why there are too many risks here. But I just, I'm not in that camp. I recognise where Barnsley came from. That it's an unnecessary distraction and an unnecessary selection. I get, I totally get that. But I can't fully put myself in that camp because I don't believe that, I don't believe that Andy Farrell picks Owen Farrell unless he's 150 % certain it's the right thing to do. Correct. Because of exactly what you said earlier, Steve. Because of all the... Everyone knew that this would kick up a storm the moment it happened.

15:04Which is kind of remarkable. The Lions had no plan for it. Which was obvious yesterday.

15:08Alex Lowe: Yeah, that's a whole other conversation. I don't think, Alex, that he's actually... You won't find many players he's played with who think he's divisive either. I mean, Saracen think he's an absolute god. That is true. So I think it probably, it might mean that you've been shaken, someone has been sleeping on the job at you, and then suddenly they've got to do a story, and they don't know what it is, and they're firing shotguns at people. Yeah, I don't mean he'd come in and deliberately, I mean that it would destabilise an environment that the two Finns believe they have created as the one and two test fly-offs.

15:44Alex Lowe: Suddenly there's a whole other element in the mix. And on that team shit point, I remember, I mean, it's just Farrell Owen, and Andy really, but Owen, his career has just been totally fascinating. Like, from the moment he came onto the scene as a 17-year-old, from all the way to now, it's just been a goldmine of amazing stories and everything else for us as journalists. And, like, I think that's part of it with us here, isn't it? Of, this is a brilliant story. But just on that quick team shit bit, because it's interesting, because people who've played against him have found him difficult. and hated him, let's be honest, and being riled up by him.

16:20And people who play with him think he is the most unbelievable guy, player they've ever played with. They liken him to Michael Jordan. They think he's just the most incredible man, bloke, father, dad, everything as well. And I remember a story from Alex Good, and this was from, I think, around 2019-20, when Saracens were getting relegated. Do you remember they beat Leinster in Dublin in the quarterfinal European Cup and then played the semi in Rassing? And Farrell was banned for both of those games. Alex Good played fly half. And Alex Good told a story of Owen was so determined that Alex Good kicked properly and Alex Good was having a problem with his tee that he spent the whole night with a scalpel cutting his tee down so that it made it fit the ball and everything like that.

17:07So that's the sort of little extra bits that we rarely hear about Owen. But I'm sure Jamie George, all these other lads have got all these sorts of stories about Owen that sort of totally goes against this kind of bogeyman vision that lots of people on social media have of this kind of horrible, nasty guy that just doesn't really exist. Just a quickie. Alex Good's gone down massively in my estimation because I understand the day before the announcement he played golf with Owen Farrell. Oh, I didn't tell anyone. Did he inform us? Did he inform us? No, he didn't.

17:39Alex Lowe: So just to revisit my point about how certain Andy Farrell must be. Now this could go wrong for him, but I just can't believe that people like Richard Wigglesworth, Johnny Sexton, Andy Farrell would allow this to be a gamble in their minds. They're not going to gamble with the Lions. Now you could argue, do the Lions need Owen Farrell to beat this Australia team? Maybe they don't. But again, if these coaches are certain that it will increase the Lions' chances even further of winning, then I can understand why they've done it. And if you look at one of the other elements that Andy said yesterday was he's coming predominantly as a 12.

18:15Alex Lowe: So you look around at all the names of the players who people say could have been called up in his place. George Ford. I mean, I do feel for George Ford. He's out in Argentina. He's going to win his 100th cap on Saturday. He's now destined to never be a Lion. I feel for him. But he coming in as a specialist 10 is not what the Lions needed. Tom Jordan absolutely would fit the profile of an Elliot Daly. Multi-skilled, multi-positioned player. But Blair Kinghorn is now in camp. So the way that this Lyons squad was selected, which had Elliot Daly and Marcus Smith operating as versatile full-back cover, that's not required now because the guy they were covering for has arrived.

18:58Alex Lowe: So they have two specialist full-backs plus two or three other players who can play there. So Tom Jordan, I don't think, is needed. So then you're looking at who are the centres. If that's the position that they want to fill, who are the inside centres? Well, England's first choice inside centre, Olly Lawrence, is injured. Their second choice is Fraser Dingwall. The only other option is Robbie Henshaw. I might be wrong here because he's not playing for Ireland, but I don't believe he's injured. So Robbie Henshaw might feel a bit aggrieved that he hasn't got the call, but then Robbie Henshaw doesn't bring three Lions tours.

19:32And he hasn't shown form this year either.

19:34Alex Lowe: And he hasn't shown... Yeah. So, again, when you break it down like that, you can think, well, if they decide they need cover, who do they bring in? Someone who can replace... So, going back to that leadership point, only three players on this tour have actually experienced a proper Lions tour. And one of them's just gone home. And one of them's just gone home. Elliot Daly. Yeah. Maritoji, Tighe Furlong, and now Owen Farrell comes in. And that void of experience is something that Andy Farrell's obviously noted. and that's something that Owen Farrell can feel that others can't. Yes. And the other element which is fascinating to me, sorry Alfie, I know you're trying to...

20:10Alex Lowe: No, no, you're fine. Is that, look at what this does. Let's assume that he passes all the protocols and he's fit enough to be considered for test selection at some point in the series. Assume he's playing well enough in training to be considered. So those things have to be in place. But what does this do for the Lions selection options now? I think it changes the dynamic massively. So we know that Andy Fowle tends to want a specialist centre on the bench. So with Ireland, it's one of Henshaw, Aki, Ringrose, tends to be on the bench in a 5-3 split. This Lions squad, now, if you had to pick the backs on the bench, you would have gone Finn Smith, specialist 10, Bundy Aki, specialist 12, Alex Mitchell, specialist 9.

20:59Alex Lowe: there's no room for any versatility in there because there's nobody else who could cover there's no other back who could cover 12 so that Aki would have to be on the bench if you look at it now, assuming all those things fit into place if O 'Farrell's part of the conversation then you have O 'Farrell could be on the bench covering 10 and 12 then you could name whichever wing doesn't start, so let's say Tommy Freeman Tommy Freeman joins him on the bench covering 13 and the whole back three and a scram half it changes the whole dynamic of the selections options for Andy Farrell by having Owen Farrell here doesn't it and then we get onto the greatest fascination of all can Owen Farrell still do it so if it comes down to it and he is on the bench for let's say the second or the third test for like that would probably be his route into the team at this point wouldn't it because let's be honest the first game he's probably most likely to be available for is the Brumbies and he could turn up on the bench there and that's going to just looking at the rhythm of selections that looks like that's going to be really quite a testy looking team so if it does get to the point where Owen Farrell is on the pitch in the last 20 minutes of one of these mega test matches it's going to be fascinating isn't it?

22:11It's fascinating because he I think the whole thing has dynamited what was a rather gentlemanly tour you know we've had two a couple of easy wins there's been no punch up there's been no No headbutt. There's been no sending off the field. There's been no bad feeling in the media. I think this is just what the tour wanted. I think people will be all over it from now on. I mean, it's a great story. And I do feel like you guys have outlined it really well because the original reaction was, as you would expect, because it's Owen Farrell. OMG, WTF. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All that sort of stuff. And at first I struggled to get my head around it.

22:49But then the more you think about it and kind of the things you've gone through, you start to see more of a case. but is it still worth that risk? Well, this is what we're going to find out, isn't it? This is why it's so fascinating because we basically don't know and that's a rubbish thing for a journalist to say but you know what I mean? It's that kind of... and it's going to be fascinating finding out whether it was a risk or not.

23:10Alex Lowe: As I said, it's the same decision as Gatlin bringing back Alan Wynne-Jones. Was it worth the risk? Ultimately, they didn't win the series but his judgment was that having Alan Wynne there would raise... It's better than not, basically. It's better than not having him there And, yeah, as we've said all along, this could fail. Owen might not be ready. You know, Finn Russell might throw his toys out of the pram. Like, who knows what's going to happen? There's definitely a chance that this doesn't work. And, you know, there's definitely a chance that he gets picked in a game. And we realise that the Owen Farrell of 2023 isn't the Owen Farrell of 2025.

23:43I guess, thinking ahead, and we don't want it to fail. We'd love it to go well because it would be an amazing comeback story. But how could it fail? Because I suppose one element is that Owen reaches too far for something that's not there anymore. Like he's got the brain still, but he maybe doesn't have the legs. We don't know that because we haven't seen him play at an elite level for a while. So therefore does he then just not play? And then he's kind of not really in the picture. So I don't know. I'm finding fewer ways for it to fail, if that makes sense. Because it's like if he plays a couple of games and they go, okay, he's not at the level he was, then he just doesn't play, doesn't he?

24:20Doesn't play the test, yeah. And then he's there as a conduit and a leader and a game manager. Both lads have really put well the case for him. Now he's here. We've got to get on with it. There's a match coming up and we've got to get on with it and see how he goes. Simple as that. There's a lot more issues in the team and around the team. So I think the two has shot up in public perception. I think it'll be good. Yeah, and I feel as well that to me it says something interesting about how Andy Farrell views his midfield. Particularly as what you say is bringing in a 12. And it's been an area of the team that so far hasn't quite worked.

24:55And we've seen different combinations. Admittedly, we're going to see tomorrow as we're recording this, the Scottish combination. So the actual country combination for the first time. But generally the midfield hasn't worked. So I do wonder as well whether he's thinking he needs a different option there. And Farrell, Owen, is that? And a bit more bite, maybe. Like we've seen the Lions. More of a distributor as well. Well, yeah, I suppose, yeah. Yeah, because Owen's not a sort of bash the front door down type guy at all, really. He's a playmaker, but he's also a big fella and could certainly bang if he needed to.

25:26And if he can still kick like he used to, certainly off the tee, then he's got a hell of a boot as well. And maybe then it plays back to your theory, Alex, that they're showing one thing in these tour games. And by the test, it all becomes a slightly different game plan.

25:40Alex Lowe: Yeah, Steve, the other night on the pod, we've watched the Lions throwing the ball around a lot. some of their handling's been lovely they really made inroads into the Reds when they went a bit more direct but they're trying to move the ball play at pace pop the ball off the floor and I was just kind of theorising that they can do that against these Super Rugby teams because they're fairly low quality it's a bit like the difference between watching the Premiership and watching the Six Nations the rugby's different it's not like a double bluff but they're playing one way but with an idea that when they come to the tests I can absolutely see them picking the most physical pack they can.

26:19Alex Lowe: And then it becomes about strategy and game plan. And Owen Farrell isn't any more, I don't think, a player for a game that goes at a million miles an hour. No, no. Finn Russell is. I don't think Owen Farrell is. But they're both definitely the players you want for a game where if you're just going to play strategically, play territory, play in behind, build it around your big mauling pack. who knows but I can see that I also think that Trupalotto is not being asked to play how he will be asked to play from now on I think he'll be really they'll be steaming the ball up early with him or Bundy Aki or even both of them although I hope they don't play both of them but I think Trupalotto is coming on form and I think they're going to release him I agree with that because I think what I really like about Trupalotto is that he's a triple threat player and I think Bundy's not Bundy's a as we saw in the second half compared to the first half when he tried to move it in the first half he was finding closed holes and stuff yeah whereas second half when he just went hard and straight he's very difficult to stop sure but what I like about Tuppolotti is that he can he's obviously a powerful guy but he's got great feet he can kick and he's a distributor so he can play the wide game right now but on the day he can end up going much more direct sure To round us off on Farrell then, boys, this is an unfair question of me to ask, but indulge me because he's not even here yet.

27:49But do you think, we'll start with you, Steve, do you think we see Owen Farrell in the Test Series? Only certainly not starting, possibly on the bench, depending on injuries. I think we might see him at some stage. I hope we do and I hope he's on form. But I don't think that makes the experiment in bringing him bad if he doesn't play. I think it'll be off the field. I'd really love to see him say to Finn, listen, mate, you're playing great. Anything I can do for you? You know, things like that. It would be utterly extraordinary if he was in the 23 for the first test at this point. Yes. So then who knows?

28:27Like someone's getting injured every game at the moment, aren't they? Someone who's in really good form. So we don't know. But if I was going to put my five bucks on it, I'd say he's in the 23 for the third test.

28:39Alex Lowe: I think it says a lot about Owen that he's here he's a lightning rod for so much and he's made bad tackles and he's exactly the kind of character who opposing fans dislike but it built to something at the World Cup where he ended up, it was just too much and Andy Fowler referred to it yesterday didn't he he just said that needs to stay in the past, everything that he went through and that was one of those perfect storms if you like where he was in the middle of a dispute between world rugby and the disciplinary authorities about whether he should be banned and it just built and built and built to the point where he left the country and the move to France wasn't a success either and he could have come back to Saracens in this role where he'll play and then transition into a coach and that would be it he did not need to put himself like there is no more ferocious storm he could have entered than a lion's and he's and he's done it and I admire him for doing that to answer your question I can see him playing in the test at some point Incidentally Alfie there are a lot of people who don't like Owen I think we should at the start of the pod saying if you don't like Owen Farrell fast forward 25 minutes because otherwise they might be turning off but listeners I hope we've discussed it pretty well and we haven't actually glossed over it at all and I think that maybe there might be one or two thoughts there as to why he is here simple as that this is a massively niche reference that will be lost on most people but when this story broke and we must credit our friend Dan Schofield who was the guy who actually broke it it reminded me of a this is so niche so you can take this out of this is ridiculous the musical The Producers it's laughing at me it's the most Will Kelliher reference of all time There's a bit where, do you know the plot of the producers?

30:38No. They're trying to put on the biggest flop in Broadway history to make a million bucks and go and live in Copacabana, okay? Right. So the guy running it is a guy called Max Bialystok, who's a New Yorker. And he accidentally puts on the greatest hit in Broadway by mistake. And he's looking at the reviews after to try and find a bad one. And there's one headline that he reads out and it goes, It was shocking, outrageous, insulting. And I loved every minute of it. And that's how I feel about Owen Farrell coming here. That was original by Mel Brooks, incidentally, the producers. There you go.

31:13Alex Lowe: Can I give you my reference? I spoke to the desk yesterday. And the sports editor on duty was explaining to him this whole thing. And I said, listen, Andy Farrell doesn't make this call. It's not like he's given Owen Farrell line selection as a present for his birthday. And Joe on the other end of the line started laughing. I think he's like, so it wasn't like when Colonel Gaddafi arranged it for his son to go play football in Serie A. Yeah, no, it wasn't like that. Not like that at all. It was along those lines, but it wasn't like that. I think that's probably a pretty good place to leave it.

31:51There's obviously loads of other Lions team news in terms of the game against the Waratahs that we'll maybe get into from the stadium tomorrow night. But understandably, the Owen Farrell news has been the big news of the tour so far. so we get a first view of the Wallabies on Sunday as well Suley at 13 interesting Len Iketal at 12 on Sunday yeah they're playing in Newcastle against Fiji yeah that's going to be exciting

32:14Alex Lowe: Len Iketal Joseph Suley in midfield just looks like it looks at Twickenham like potential for Dynamite yeah absolutely so next pod for you after the game on Saturday where we'll have lots more to unpack to send us an email and I do feel there could be quite a few of you disagreeing with the tapes be kind but you know that's okay The Ruck at thetimes.co.uk is how you can get in touch with us. We'll be back with you on Saturday. This has been The Ruck, the journalist's rugby podcast from The Times and The Sunday Times. Hi, I'm Katie Prescott from The Times Tech Podcast. AI is already changing business and medicine, but could it also change the way we look after our own health?

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