Wallabies and Lions name their 1st test squads. Is it advantage Lions?

0:15Will Kelleher: Welcome along to The Ruck, the journalist's rugby podcast from The Times and The Sunday Times and the Lions and the Wallabies have named their teams for the first test this Saturday in Brisbane. I'm Alfie Reynolds, Alex Lowe, Will Kelleher. It is almost here, gents. We have the teams. How are we?

0:33Alfie Reynolds: We've been waiting a while for this, haven't we? When did we pick our first Lions team on the pod? December? December, yeah. Our, like, New Year's Eve episode. We need to go back and check how many we got right. We did okay, I think.

0:46Alex Lowe: It is the most eagerly awaited team selection every four years, isn't it? The first Lions test. I think the fans are all coming in today. It feels like this is a day where it launches. Do you know what I mean?

0:57Alfie Reynolds: Yeah, well I was in my hotel earlier just filing the team news copy which is only around the corner from where we are here at Lions HQ in the middle of Brisbane and suddenly 50 Lions fans are checking in and you're thinking, oh here we go, right. because I remember we were both there in 2017 weren't we Alex and think that was the first time I'd ever done a Lions and I hadn't been there for the tour games and nor had you Alex had you and the rest of our touring group were on the Tuesday were in Waikato for the Hamilton Chiefs game and I was sort of looking around the harbour and kind of going where are all these where's the sea of red I keep hearing so much about and then Friday bang you couldn't get a seat at breakfast in the morning in the middle of Auckland and stuff like that and I feel like we're just on the cusp of that now which is great and and we've got a team we've got a team speaking to people that have

1:41Will Kelleher: flown out in the last few days they were saying that Heathrow is just red shirts everywhere so I think it is going to get today or tomorrow all of a sudden we're going to be like whoa all right the first test is here the Lions have named their team the Wallabies have named their team as I say we'll get on to the Aussies in just a moment it's actually some big team news there in terms of absentees but the Lions what's the big talking point for both of you in terms of Andy Farrell's squad selection. Burn and Curry in that back row?

2:06Alex Lowe: Yeah, back row and the balance of the bench, I suspect, took up 90 % of their selection meeting. I always felt that once Gary Ringrose was ruled out that Tupelo and Hugh Jones was the most obvious selection. So Ringrose missing out is unfortunate for Bundyaki because when we watched Sione and Hugh Jones play together, they have that timing and that understanding that they just read each other so well. That's been honed through a long time at club and country that felt that felt like a fairly straightforward decision to me but the back row from from the day they named the squad you're looking at the number of players and the quality of players and thinking that is going to be a hell of a decision that they've got to make and they've ended up picking not quite what I would have expected I I always thought they'd pick Tom Curry the whole way through this tour others might have had bigger moments but every time you ask Andy Farrell about who it is that's impressing him and why it's Tom Curry he's like the sort of represents what they want the character of this team to be we just didn't know if it would be at six or seven I think Jack Morgan is really unfortunate to miss out and I thought Ollie Chesson might have got a six jersey instead of Tyg Byrne but they've gone for power haven't they they've gone for size height and power is it also about experience

3:23Will Kelleher: and what players have done previously and we can probably bring Tyg Furlong into the mix here the big thing for me when I looked at this team was what has been the balance between form and players that right here right now are the best selections and which players I think Furlong, Curry, Byrne where clearly they're also looking at experience and what they've done previously.

3:41Alex Lowe: Definitely so Curry this will be his fourth consecutive Lions test, Jack Cohn in the eight fourth consecutive Lions test, Tyg Byrne has captained the team on this trip and I think that's you know and Ellis Genge has been a like a really important leader he's not got Lions experience but I think they are leaning on a lot of these characters um because it's something different it's something they are going to step from some fairly routine tour matches into a cauldron at the Suncourt which is Australia's favorite home ground so leaning on that experience I think I think it is important and maybe that's that's what got Tygburn the nod at six ahead of Ollie Chesson because he's he's been on a Lions tour and he's capped in this team and it is it's It's heavy on experience.

4:24Alex Lowe: It's heavy on big power players, height for the line out. And it looks to me like they're just going to go and try and blitz the Wallabies physically rather than take them on the floor.

4:35Alfie Reynolds: There are nine Lions in the starting 15 who are making their Lions test debuts, which was probably always going to happen because I think there were, what, 28 players on this trip originally in the initial squad who had never gone on a trip before. But then to add to those guys you've mentioned, we've got Tygferl on seventh consecutive Lions test, same as Maro Toji. So again, those two are Lions test match animals, if we use that well-worn phrase. But I think the interesting thing is here that in lots of positions, it's not the form team, I would say. Like they have trusted, it's a trust team, I think.

5:14Alfie Reynolds: they've got someone like Tygburn who has said himself on this trip that he feels more comfortable as a lock these days playing at six and the last time actually he played against Australia he was at six so maybe there's a nice continuity thing there and that was Ireland in November you would probably say that Jack Morgan has been the form fetcher seven and Tom Curry has said himself in Canberra I think it was before that game that he was not quite where he wanted to be in terms of his form and look we've talked about this on all of our pods picking all these teams that recency bias and form play so much a part of it but actually when you've come to the meat and drink of it this is a very Andy Farrell thing to do I would guess is it's a trust thing in some positions and look the team would have looked different definitely if everyone was fit I think Gary Ringrose may well have been the 13 but he's concussed so therefore the Scottish duo made sense even though Andy Farrell's made it very clear that they're all Lions and they're not national partnerships it's just blindingly obvious to use that telepathy in midfield and therefore then bundyaki goes to the bench and then look marcus smith is the fly half and back three sort of well full back cover isn't he and you think if mac hansen had come through his foot injury that was revealed the other day and blair kinghorn didn't have his knee problem one or other of those are going to probably have made the 23 somewhere so in actually like we would our job was to try and predict what they were going to do, and Alex did a great job of winkling out lots of this.

6:41Alfie Reynolds: And quite a lot of it fell into place, not necessarily by default, as in they were the wrong choices, but just it was becoming obvious what the line-up was going to be. But the key bits were 5, 6, 7, and 12, weren't they? And they've gone to McCarthy, Byrne, Curry, Tui Palatu.

6:58Alex Lowe: They've used, through this tour, through Focus on the Bat Row, they've used so many different second-row, Bat Row combinations, but I don't think they've actually played this combination together.

7:09Alfie Reynolds: And neither have they done Finn Russell, Sienito Eppolotti, Hugh Jones but obviously that's a very experience. They've done it once or twice before. Yeah, but not on this trip, interestingly.

7:18Alex Lowe: But again, you don't need to test it. But the way that the Lions have presented themselves through this trip they've almost either gone for the power option or the competing on the floor pace dynamism option with two sevens like Curry and Morgan. They played Pollock at six once, tried to do it twice. So they could have gone down that road. They could have gone with a Jack Morgan at seven and a Ben Earl at eight and maybe a Curry at six. And that would have looked like they were going to take on the Wallabies, take on Fraser McWright, who showed us in November what a quality jackaling open side flanker he is.

7:57Alex Lowe: But it's almost like they've looked at it and gone, we'll take the opposite route. and if you follow how some of this tour's gone they were penalised a lot in Perth on the floor, that first half remember Andy Farrell went nuts at half time

8:09Alfie Reynolds: A lot of silly little offside at the back to Rucks as well

8:12Alex Lowe: They've been done jackaling early and they've sort of stopped doing it and it's almost like they've picked a team now and while they've got players who are more than capable of a poach if it's there Tom Curry obviously, Ty Byrne is one of the strengths of his game but it feels like they've picked a team that's just there to blast the Wallabies off the ball on both sides of it, whether it, you know, if in support, one of the things that the Lions struggled with early in the tour was not having their support runners in place or the clear-out runners in place quickly enough, leaving like Genj, I remember, and Alex Mitchell in Sydney, just they'd make a break and they were isolated.

8:46Alex Lowe: There wasn't support to clear out. I think we've seen a massive improvement in that since Sydney and I have a feeling that it feels to me like this team has been picked to just dominate physically an Australia team that's missing, which will come to missing enormous power and dynamism from their team and has a rookie 10 who is 5 '10". And I can just see Tom Curry going after Tom Liner all day long.

9:10Will Kelleher: Because it is close to the largest pack, really, that the Lions could have selected. Maybe Porter over Genge, arguably. But it's power, power, power.

9:19Alfie Reynolds: You'll read the piece in the paper Alex is going to write after we've done this. But Ellis Genge has put on 10 kilos. Is that what he said? 10. So he came on the scene. 10 kilos. Yeah, I was doing the Tommy Bow, sorry. But he came on the scene as a 116 kilo prop. And now he told us there that he's 126 kilos now. So like 20 stone. That is massive weight. And you remember on the Red Lions pod series, 13, Sam Warburton took. We talked about this on the pod the other week, didn't we? Or the other day, whenever, how many days have we had? Gatlin picked the most abrasive physical enforcers was the phrase that Sam Warburton said.

9:55Alfie Reynolds: It was Hibbard and everyone. And look, again, when we mentioned this before, we said possibly Dan Sheehan's not like an enforcer. If you were picking the enforcer, you'd probably pick Cowndicke, albeit he's now concussed, we know. But on paper, that looks like the most aggressive, abrasive, big dog pack they could have picked, isn't it? Yeah. And knowing now, so we'll mention these injuries, that Australia don't have Tupu, which is a selection thing, I guess. Yeah. Skelton's not there. Rob Valentini's not there either.

10:23Alex Lowe: Norwich's understudy, Lange Gleeson, he's not there either.

10:25Alfie Reynolds: So they're playing champion of Krepingi at six, who's making his debut.

10:30Alex Lowe: Age 28 after four years at Castro.

10:33Alfie Reynolds: Great story, that. Great story, great story. Joe Schmidt would have been absolutely desperate to have a fit Rob Valentini and a fit Will Skelton. And Skelton saw us the other day. He was up for media with Joseph Sueli, so I'm glad that we didn't do a big Skelton piece.

10:49Alex Lowe: Plus, of course, they don't have Noah Lollaseo and David Precky, their hooker. He's another one, yeah. Because he got a head injury against Fiji. So they've battered savagely by injuries. And you could argue that all these really tight selection decisions that the Lions have been agonising over, whichever way they fell, the Lions would be able to field a team that should be able to physically dominate Australia. And I think it's a real shame for this test that the Wallabies are going to be missing some key men. And key men because they're important big ball carriers, big power in the set piece from Skelton.

11:22Alex Lowe: and it's really, there are huge losses for...

11:25Alfie Reynolds: And they're not deep enough resources in Australia to lose four starters, are they, really? We've seen that on this trip with all the tour games.

11:33Alex Lowe: I would love it if they were four... Both teams were maxed out, and then you could guard it, but it's, you know, we've said this isn't New Zealand or South Africa, they don't have the depth, so it's a real shame that those guys have been ruled out, and Joe Schmidt is hopeful that Valentini and Will Skelton will be good for Melbourne. and he didn't want to risk them in match one of the series.

11:53Will Kelleher: Well, I was going to say that was interesting. Joe Schmidt said, essentially, if this was a third test, they'd be playing, which you can understand the thinking, but equally I'm kind of like... This is your chance, isn't it? This is the third. I kind of feel like if Australia are going to win this series, they have to win in Brisbane. They have to win the first test. So to not pick those guys is big call.

12:13Alex Lowe: Which, I mean, it's what he would say, right? Oh, they'll be back next week. You know, I agree with you. So you reckon they won't be fit? No, I'm just saying it suggests to me he's maybe not as close. They weren't as close to being fit this week as he's wanting to make out. Whereas when Andy Farrell talks about how close Jack Morgan was to the selection, I believe him because he's been brilliant in this trip. And if Tom Curry was injured and couldn't play, Jack Morgan would come in and I reckon he would barely notice any difference. I think Jack has got different strengths, but he would tear and what I mean by that is the work rate they both have the same sort of mentality do you know what I mean like they'll tear around for 18 minutes with no second thought for their own welfare and they I think they different strengths different qualities and I think Jack Morgan as you say well on form has probably had a better tour but he doesn't have the the background that Tom Curry has but I think you're you know I think when Andy Farrell says how tight it was to leave out Jack Morgan, I'd totally buy it.

13:14Alex Lowe: When Joe Schmidt said, oh, they were that close and we could have played them, I was like, well... Why wouldn't you? Why wouldn't you? If they were that close... Once in the 12 years... If you're 1-0 up going into Melbourne, the pressure is all on the Lions.

13:25Alfie Reynolds: The pressure's all on the Lions and you can then go,

13:28Alex Lowe: well, we're going to give Skelton this game off because he's not quite ready. We're so used to sitting in these press conferences and listening to what the coach says and immediately go, does he really mean that? That's half the job, isn't it? It is, and I felt, just from Joe Schmidt, he was very smooth when he did it. He was also asked, let's not sugarcoat this, this is a disaster. And he was like, well, it's not ideal to be giving Tom Liner his first test start in a Lions test. It's like, yeah, not ideal. Suboptimal. Lord Sayer had started 10 of the last 11 tests for them. Valentini had played 47 out of 50 coming into Wow 47 out of 51 if you include the Fiji game He wanted to play them These guys, he wanted to play them

14:17Will Kelleher: I tell you what, more on the game Both Lions and Wallabies coming up in just a second after this

14:28Will Kelleher: Guessing is for game shows, not your business Workday is the enterprise AI platform for HR, finance and IT. With AI grounded in your context to get work done and done right. It's a new work day.

14:45Will Kelleher: So I think we've covered off a lot of the headlines. Immediately you go on social media, which is never a great idea in terms of reaction to team news and team name. But the amount of comments, Will, about Jack Morgan, and we always thought it was a potential story on this tour, but not having a Welshman in a Lions match day 23 in a test team historic been what is it 100 over 100 years yeah so elgin corrected us on this

15:09Alfie Reynolds: because we thought it was 1899 because that was the last tour where there was a match without a welsh welsh player but in terms of test matches it's 1896 and you have to caveat it by saying against australia new zealand and south africa because there were a couple of sort of rebel tours that were only english and scots who went to argentina in the 30s so anyway by anyone's measure it is in living memory it's never happened that a Welshman has not made a test team and if you only spool back 12 years there are 10 of them in the starting team in the Sydney match the team of enforcers that we mentioned earlier so look I'm torn on this a bit because the reality is Wales have been absolutely dreadful for a long time and this is the reality of losing 18 times in a row You get two Lions on the trip, one gets injured, there's no call-up.

16:00Alfie Reynolds: You get one and that's it. But it's crushingly sad. We talked about this in our squad chats and out here and everything else. Wales love the Lions like no one else. Probably Heathrow was full of Welsh fans. And I hope we get lots of Cal on lands and we get lots of hymns and arias and all that stuff. but it's just going to be so sad that there's no actual Welsh lad on the field for them to support and look it's all it's the Lions they're a group it's an elite sporting environment we're not Andy Frowl was very keen to point out that there's absolutely no tick boxing or token selections not that he would be anyway because he's been brilliant Jack Morgan but this is just the best

16:42Will Kelleher: team but it is really really sad it is sad but and I'm going to make myself incredibly unpopular here I don't think it is the huge controversy that a lot of people are reacting to if Jack was part of the team I'd say oh brilliant he's he's earned that spot but because as we've been speaking about Alex the back row is so competitive that I don't think it's some great injustice that he isn't there I think it's surprising that Tom Curry is there and I understand people questioning that because as we've said already I think that's also about experience and what he's done previously rather than form right now but it was so competitive in that back row that Josh van der Fleer is not there, Jack Morgan's not there, Henry Pollock hasn't got into the matchday 23.

17:19Will Kelleher: There was always going to be quality players that missed out.

17:22Alex Lowe: Do you know what the biggest indicator is for me of where Welsh rugby is? It's not that Jack Morgan has been edged out of the Test 15 and that if Thomas Williams was here, he may well have been in this 23. It's that they've called up reinforcements into this Lions squad to cover injuries and to cover the Tuesday game and none of them have come from Wales. When they had finished their tour, where's Scotland haven't? They were one flight away from in Japan and none of them were considered good enough to come down there. Even, you know, Dowie Lake. Dowie Lake's a surprise. Yeah, Dowie Lake would be, I reckon, the closest.

17:53Alex Lowe: And that is a surprise. They brought Ewan Ashmore over from Scotland. So I think that is the biggest... There's no other obvious choice. That's the other thing. That's the biggest indicator for me of where Wales are. That's the thing that people should be going. That's the saddest bit. Because that's the bit that shows that even when you get to the second, third and fourth choice, there's still no Welshman. So Jack Morgan is flying the flag for his country. He hasn't quite made the 23. But if you want a marker of where the Wales team is compared to the Lions, that's it. They've been players brought in as cover.

18:22Alex Lowe: They may well not play on Tuesday. But then there are no Welshmen. And that shows how far they've fallen and how much work they need to do in four years for the next Lions squad to have any better representation than this one.

18:33Will Kelleher: Let's round it off then. Final thoughts on the game. First of all, on the Wallabies, we've spoken about Skelton and Valentini in particular not being there. When you saw that Wallabies team news, did you just kind of go, ah, damn.

18:48Alfie Reynolds: I haven't checked this, actually, but before the teams were announced, the Lions were 3-1 on to win and seven-point favourites. I'm not a gambler and I don't quite understand betting, but in anyone's measure, that's heavy favourites. And we know that, like, it's obvious. The Wallabies are ranked eighth in the world. the Lions are a collection of teams who apart from Wales are very highly ranked they should win well on Saturday Lions test matches don't often go like that we all know that but often the Lions are playing the best team in the world and look we were having a chat about this Alfie the other night remarkably we're chatting without recording a podcast it's amazing isn't it we go for beers we do have conversations that don't get recorded yeah but I think it's not a controversial thing to say that this is the worst opposition the Lions have had in living memory and that's just That's not like a hot take.

19:33Alfie Reynolds: That's a fact. World ranking. Eighth in the world. Again, we've said it on previous pods, but if you just go back through all the oppositions that the Lions have had over the last 40 years, they've all largely been one of the best teams, the best team in the world, a World Cup winning team, or one of the great sides like the 05 All Blacks who didn't win the World Cup. There is an expectation here for the Lions to deliver. And maybe it's a refreshing thing, but it's an interesting thing is that the Lions themselves, the players are really really owning that they are being very bullish punchy we're here to win 3-0 was Henry Pollock the other day and every time we've asked someone else about that they've gone yeah of course we are and look they they take it as a sort of of course we want to win every game but I think there's an extra steal about that there's a sort of inner drive to it's not good enough to win this series 2-1 we should be battering the Wallabies and actually I wonder whether that comes from Andy Farrell downwards like he's the biggest alpha male in both codes of rugby you've ever seen like he exudes this kind of massive big Mufasa energy doesn't he the big lion with a massive mane you know I mean and then you've got guys like Ellis Genge and Mara Toje and Dan Sheehan was really punchy the other day we're only here to win this is all about winning all of this tour all of this setup has been driven toward this Saturday and that's why there's actually quite a lot of pressure on the Lions because if they don't deliver the only thing they're here to do is win this test series and so that comes with pressure but I think that they're the phrase Andy Farrell used is they want them to walk towards it and I feel like it's been interesting because lots of teams wouldn't put that pressure on themselves by naming it and saying we're here to win 3-0 but these guys have done.

21:11Alex Lowe: So a quick scan of my betting account says that the Lions are two to nine on okay so is that lengthened that's in there heavier favorites now yeah heavier favorites so that's more than four to one and it's a 10 point margin now wow for a first test

21:27Will Kelleher: of a lion the lions are 10 point favorites and this is the thing that i find really interesting being out here in that we obviously come from a perspective where we'd like to see the lions do well but in terms of the interests of the series and why i was almost slightly deflated by that Aussie team news is like we need a good test series here I think the worst thing in terms of the series overall is for the Lions to come here and win 3-0 particularly off the back of the tour games we've had which haven't really sparked it into life so far but I think we need a competitive

21:59Alfie Reynolds: series and I worry about there's 3-0s and there's 3-0s aren't there like if they're 3-0 and it's one point game one point game last minute drop goals controversy tries ruled out true last minute I don't know, red cards, whatever, then that's a different 3-0 to winning by 10 points, 15, 20 points in every match. And look, the Lions team won't care. And in some ways, nor should they because the Lions don't win Test Series. They've won one Test Series in the professional era. Well, two. Well, at 97 and at 2013, that's it. So it's about time the Lions won a Test Series. But I think I agree. Wouldn't it be brilliant if the Wallabies came out and went 14-0 up and it was like,

22:36Will Kelleher: whoa, how are they going to do that now? I stand by it. best thing for the series is the Wallabies win on Saturday.

22:42Alex Lowe: For the series, definitely. For the series. MCG would be mental, can you imagine?

22:46Alfie Reynolds: 95 ,000 or something and the Lions have to win.

22:49Alex Lowe: I think we're forecasting ahead here, so I'm not going to make predictions, but when we come to our end of tour review, there is inevitably going to be a section of the pod which is about should Australia have a Lions tour in 12 years' time? Does it work? We've seen 89, 13. Is it intense enough? are the tour matches worth it that's definitely going to be part of it what you don't what i don't want is to get there and go there's just no point coming to australia that's what i mean yeah and it and i think what it would be brilliant is if we get to the end of this and it's been like a really memorable hard fought whatever the final score every game is fought to the death and then we could go right well the next line sort of australia they need to reimagine the first half of the tour and build into the test series against the wallabies because the wallabies turn up Australian teams always turn up.

23:38Alex Lowe: You'll always get the scrap. You'll always get the kind of, as Andy Farrell was talking about earlier when he came here with Wigan and played Boos and Broncos. They've always got something to prove. They will never go down easy. I hope that's what we get. And then we can get to the end of it and go, the Test Series lived up to what we want the Lions Test Series to live up to.

23:56Alfie Reynolds: Yeah, I hope it fires off. We've got Tui Pilotti, Sueli. That's going to be great. That'd be good fun.

24:01Alex Lowe: Everyone is talking down on both sides. It's going to be mega, isn't it? And even Andy was like, players don't think about that. I'm not buying that for a second.

24:10Alfie Reynolds: Well, I wrote a piece about this the other day, so that some of our Irish lads on the ground here were relaying a good story. So the context of this is that in the Scotland-Australia game, there was a bit of a contretemps, a brouhaha between the two centres. And Su Ali was picked up on the ref mic going, see you next time, bro, kind of thing, which is like, we love that. That's great. And Tui Pilotti's gone on podcasts and stuff like that, talking about that whole theme. and he's been told by a guy called Owen Tulin, who used to be the Melbourne Rebels analyst, so he worked with him there, who's now working for the Wallabies, Joe Schmidt, quietly, stop doing that.

24:44Alfie Reynolds: Stop talking about it because Joe's listening and he's going to kill you. And like, we just, oh, imagine. Well, that could be our new Norse-Fallau kind of battle. Like, we want some of that stuff. It'd be brilliant, wouldn't it?

24:58Alex Lowe: I'm looking forward to that. I'm looking forward to that. There's a few collisions out there that are going to be pretty tasty.

25:03Alfie Reynolds: That's why it's a bit of a shame we don't have Genj Tupu again. We've talked about that. Or like Skelton McCarthy or something like that. But hey, there'll be plenty of other battles.

25:11Will Kelleher: Look, it'll be awesome. It'll be awesome. It's only going to get bigger over the next few days here in Brisbane. Can the Wallabies do it on Saturday? Alex?

25:18Alex Lowe: Oh, I would... No. I struggle to see how they score enough points.

25:22Alfie Reynolds: Do you know what? So you talked about it there. We've all spent our lives largely probably watching England play Australian teams in sport, whether that's the Ashes, whether that's Olympic stuff, whether that even football when Australia not being that that good at football they've beaten England sometimes and I I hope there's some sort of like stirring of the Australian sporting spirit that kind of like whatever happens you never give up that Shane Warne kind of like Alan Borda Jeff Tomo kind of like I'm not going to swear here but that you kind of you're not walking over us in our own backyard the Suncorp as you said is their favorite home ground it's an awesome place to play rugby oddly even though it's their favorite ground the Lions have won here most times they've played it so Ballymore 89 last 13 the Beale slip but I hope that all this kind of we're going to win 3-0 we're just coming here to batter you stuff is going to fire something in the Wallaby soul that kind of goes right over my dead body because that's what we want isn't it that'd be great I

26:23Alex Lowe: just don't see how they get on the front we saw how dangerous they can be in transition I know Twickenham in November. They've got athletes. They'll bring Sueliti into the game in a way they didn't against Fiji. They've got threats, but I don't know how they get enough momentum front foot ball to build pressure.

26:42Will Kelleher: I think the two things for me, which have been the two things all tour ever since the Lions played Argentina in Dublin, which has been the aerial game and the breakdown. That if Australia can cause the Lions problems at the breakdown, like they have had problems there all tour, then that could be a real plus point for the Wallabies. And then still the aerial game we saw what Argentina were able to do against the Lions of just kind of causing havoc and scoring some great counter-attack tries I still look at those two areas that that's the Wallabies route into this game to try and win the Test match but isn't that the Lions is about making

27:12Alfie Reynolds: heroes as well it's like make yourself a hero time like Tom Liner what a story his dad played and beat the Lions in 89 although well one of the games and famous surname famous journey Owen Slott wrote a lovely piece about his journey and when he came over here drove past the Suncorp Stadium him in covid and maybe one day i'll play over there and look at him now five years on he's starting at 10 for the wallabies against the lions first test start like surely that's the sort of thing if you're an australian you just go let's have it come on then like this is what you dream of and if they i'm not saying they will but if they if they sort of take a beating that's a real blow for that kind of like aussie sporting spirit is the pa announcer going to introduce him as England born fly half now an Aussie the boy from Q Richmond yeah yeah yeah there's a Q in Richmond in Melbourne actually aren't there but yeah no I can't wait it's going to be really fun this is what we'll be waiting for isn't it yeah it's what it's all about so

28:10Will Kelleher: next pod for you will be in the stands at Suncorp following the first test in Brisbane so that's coming your way in a couple of days appreciate you listening drop us an email it is the ruck at thetimes.co.uk and we'll be back with you on Saturday.