Why Most People Will Never Build Wealth (And How to Be Different) | Vivian Tu

27:49And the third, you already mentioned this a little earlier, get a mentor. My mentor at JPMorgan changed my life. Really? When I started working there, she was my manager and she was my intern sponsor the prior summer. But I looked around and it was 40 white guys in suits. And they all came from one of two backgrounds. Either they were likely from very, very affluent families where Uncle Roger also worked on Wall Street and was like a wink, wink, nudge, nudge, got, you know, whoever on the desk. Or they went to an Ivy League institution, played football, lacrosse, you know, basketball, whatever.

28:31They were all athletes from these really, really elite universities because Wall Street loves to recruit athletes. It helps with like a team morale and, you know, workplace environment. I looked around and I'm like, well, I don't have a rich Uncle Roger. I did not play a collegiate sport and I'm not a man. So just to state the obvious, I was like, who the hell am I going to relate to? There was one woman. She also happened to be an Asian woman and she was everything I wanted to be she walked into work click clacked her heels like Gucci stilettos on the marble floor flung a new Chanel bag on the desk every single day wow I went to her apartment and it was the first person I'd ever seen own an like own real estate in New York City and I knew she was really rich because she could afford a dog she had a dog in New York City.

29:30You got dog sitters and dog walkers. Yeah. Her dog ate like human grade food. Yeah. It was like crazy. I was like$500 a month in food. Correct. And I look to her for everything, whether it was, hey, I don't even know what health insurance I want or what to invest in. Or frankly, I would call her and be like, I really like this boy. He still hasn't texted me back and she would be like, have some self-respect. And she gave me so much financial wisdom. And I talk about her all the time. But like, what I think people don't realize is like how much of an impact she actually had on my life, not just my finances.

30:13Like we're friends. And I went to her apartment one weekend and she was cleaning out her closet. And she was just, you know putting stuff in certain bags to give away and she i will never forget this she gifted me a pair of ysl heels unworn they were a little too big or i can't remember if they were a little too big or a little thousand dollar heels or something yeah they were like a thousand dollar heels they were black leather gold toe i so still have them today i do by the way they're and I was like so shell-shocked that she would give these to me because she could easily have sold them for$700,$600 on some secondary website.

30:59It's too much time. She's just like, here you go. It's not the time because she had other clothes going into bags that were going out. She was going to sell. She was going to like, you know, send to a service that would sell them for her and they would take a cut and whatever. But I asked her, I was like, why are you giving these to me and she said i think every young woman needs a pair of heels that helps her stand a little taller and makes her feel just like a little bit bigger a little bit better and she was the big sister i always wanted that's cool and she guided me in so many ways, helped me avoid pitfalls.

31:40She is the reason I didn't adopt a dog when I was 22, because she was like, she was like, don't do it. Don't do it. So much time. She told me, she was like, you're, it's going to ruin your social life. You will not have time. You will be picking up poop. And I was like, really? You got one. She's like, don't do what I did. Listen to what I'm saying. And I avoided a lot of potholes because of her. And so make a goal, know your strengths and weaknesses and find a mentor who can help guide you there. That's beautiful. What is the greatest lesson your mentor taught you about money and the greatest lesson that she didn't teach you, but you observed in her?

32:14You know, I think it really comes down to how she treated people. So she comes from like a pretty working class family background, like parents are in a restaurant. And I would see how she treated staff. And she was so kind, always, you know, huge tipper, what have you, like would hand the bartender a 20 before she ordered. And that wouldn't even be the tip. That was just to get his attention. and she was so kind to people who and frankly to people who like didn't have really much to offer her and i think that taught me that like it's cool no one is ever beneath you you are never above anybody but two seeing how kind she was to all these people we went to one restaurant one time and the food was very bad and she told the staff she was like this shrimp tastes like it's been soaked in something because it wasn't fresh and this is not edible and they were like we're so sorry like we can do this and she's like i don't want anything i don't want it comped i don't want anything i'm happy to pay for it i want you to know and i was like are you sure we don't want this comped by the way like i would like to get something free dessert anything um you know i was broke i you know i would take anything free whenever i could but i saw how she lived her life with a certain set of principles that she wasn't going to bend and it made me live my life with a certain set of principles that i was never ever going to bend and it's made me a better person if you didn't have her as a mentor or a mentor in general where do you think you would be personally in your life and financially?

34:01Personally? I mean, I don't even know. Because she's part of the reason why I stuck it out on Wall Street for those first couple of years, because I was like, it's tough here, but she's going to look out for me. And when she was no longer my manager, I left. That's what ended up happening. And I certainly wouldn't have been in a position to get the media job I got had I left earlier. And she was actually the person who got me that job because it was through her network, her connection. Financially, I would certainly be worse off. Really? Guarantee you. Because she taught me so many things that she made mistakes on that I didn't have to eat.

34:38Like I didn't have to eat shit. Yeah. For three years. Yeah. Because mistakes. I didn't have to eat shit because she already tasted it and she knew it was bad. Wow. And she was like, don't do this. Don't do that. Oh, by the way, when you are thinking of final, and this is, you know, years and years later, this was actually very recently when I bought my place in New York City, I was like, who's your mortgage guy? We talked to her mortgage guy. We probably got you a better deal or we got the better deal through. Yeah. Interesting. So I know for a fact I'd be financially worse off, but I think personally, like she really changed the trajectory of my life.

35:12And I mean, my mom told her that at my wedding, which is crazy. Yeah. Speaking of your parents, did I read that you used to do like translating for your parents when you were younger with like money conversations and like negotiations this is amy too definitely not her daughter um can i talk to the claims adjuster yeah wow because even as a teeny tiny pipsqueak child with my child voice i spoke native english and my parents even to this day speak english that is very clearly you know riddled with an accent yeah and i have seen my parents i don't want to get emotional about this but i've seen them face so much adversity or be written off because of what they sound like on the phone or what they may look like and they came to this country with a dream and they gave up all of their hopes to be able to funnel all of their ambition into me and so your only child i'm an only child no pressure no pressure no pressure um your girls are lucky in that way um but like i feel like i saw how often they were scoffed at or taken advantage of and it made me sick because I was born here.

36:44I'm not here to survive. I have a sense of entitlement and I don't think that's a bad thing. I am entitled to a good life. I am a strong believer that only good things happen to girls like me. And I say that boldly and proudly every single morning in the mirror. I'm like, bad things like this don't happen to girls like me. And people are always like laughing on my team. They're like, that's like literally a delusional thing to say. That's why you are where you are. But you're delusional. I am a little delusional. And that's why you are where you are. Because you believe it. I believe it. I truly do believe it.

37:17But I believe that I am entitled to thrive in this country. Looking the way... Let's freaking go, Vivian. I am entitled to thrive in this country. Yes, you are. Looking the way I look, however I sound, in a way that my parents never felt that they were entitled to. And maybe in part, they were truly discriminated against whatever. But I think a lot of it was also self, you know, a self-fulfilling prophecy in that because my parents were like, oh, well, my English is not good. I'm not going to ask for a raise. Even if my mom was the star chemist at her pharmaceutical lab or my dad was like, oh, I should just be happy to have a job.

37:54I don't want to rock the boat. Not rocking the boat is a big immigrant thing. You don't want to, like, make waves. But, like, my dad was also incredibly hardworking and very talented. And so I took their two hearts worth of ambition and jammed it into everything I do now. So I am of the mindset that everything I do needs to be compensated. My time is incredibly valuable. And if you are not with the program, you can. Yeah, I'm not with you. I'm not with you. Yeah, yeah. And we don't have to work together and that's OK. I think I have been given this confidence because of many of the sacrifices they made.

38:34Did your parents give you this confidence or did you see, I guess, I don't know what to call their lack of confidence or their insecurity around being immigrants here where you said, I need to go claim this now because I was born here. I think it was a side effect of having to grow up really fast. Like I was a latchkey kid, probably much sooner than it is legal. I'm old now, so please don't arrest my parents. But like I was a latchkey kid far sooner than, you know, I was supposed to be because my parents couldn't afford child care and also both had to work. I was the one reading over my mom and dad's resumes when they would apply for jobs.

39:13How old were you during this time? Young, like late elementary, early middle. Wow. I remember reading over my mom's reports, like her mid-year review and end-of-year reviews on herself and rewriting them. Wow. And I feel very lucky. Both of my parents are incredibly smart. I have been given many talents and gifts when it comes to learning. I learned very quickly. I was always at the top of my class, you know, graduated high school valedictorian, the University of Chicago, graduated with honors. I was always more academically mature. so I was able to help my mom get away with some stuff and these days she doesn't even need my help I mean they're both retired now but like as they got more comfortable and they saw my writing they would start to be able to copy and paste here and there here and there but like I had to grow up really quickly like I was coming home to do my homework very like swiftly we would eat dinner and then my mom would be like can you help me with something and I remember the first couple times I would I did it so begrudgingly because I was like oh this is like extra homework other kids don't have to do this and I was right but other kids didn't have parents who would make that kind of sacrifice and leave the country and the language and everything that they know to hopefully give you a better future yeah so wow how many languages do you speak so I speak shanghainese fluently what is that so okay basically my family is from shanghai and chinese is largely broken down into Mandarin and Cantonese.

40:47It is a dialect of Mandarin, but it is so vastly different from Mandarin that I do not fully understand and speak Mandarin at a fluent level. Wow. You can understand some of it, but not. I can, I can. And my understanding is better than my speaking Mandarin, but like at home, we speak Shanghainese. Wow. And it's a dying language, unfortunately, because they're no longer teaching it in Shanghai schools because they want everybody to have one uniform language. Mandarin versus Chinese is just like Mandarin like they want everybody to sing Mandarin wow yeah so who speaks it now like when I went back to Shanghai at in 2019 only people over the age of like 50 really yeah so you can't really like I could talk to all of the aunties and uncles I could talk to the old people but the young people I would be like asking them for directions they'd be like we don't know what you're saying really yeah so you're like an outsider there no not quite because all of the like senior citizens are like, they love you.

41:43They're all so pleasantly surprised that someone who like looks like me and is very clearly American can speak Shanghainese this way. That's cool. But I had an easier time asking like, you know, this old uncle, like I was like, is the food good at this restaurant? And he's like, the food is the food. I'm like, damn, why are you in such a bad mood? And his wife laughed that I could say that in Shanghainese. And she actually answered. And, you know, we had a nice little chat. He's just like a curmudgeonly old man. But like to even be able to have that interaction like is strange because the older generation, they typically largely speak Chinese only.

42:19Wow. Yeah. Interesting. You mentioned this kind of entitlement mindset. Yeah. You're like, I feel what is what do you say in the morning when you wake up? You say only good things happen to girls like me. And you mentioned also like and I love this about you. And I really want people to understand what's underneath this, because I truly believe the difference between you setting a goal and a plan for yourself and actually accomplishing it is your mindset and your belief that you are capable of accomplishing it. And you are entitled to accomplish it, not just because you were born here, but because you're willing to do the work and take the actions to go through the growing pains to make that accomplishment happen.

42:59And there's a belief underneath it where a lot of people might say, okay, I have this game plan, but they don't believe that luck comes to them. They don't believe they're worthy and deserving of having financial peace or creating more growth in their life. They don't believe it fully. And by you saying it over and over to yourself every morning or every time you're in a team meeting, what is it saying again? Good things happen to girls like me. Only good things happen to girls like me. Only good things happen to girls like me, right? It's like you saying that over and over again. Maybe you didn't believe it in the beginning, but you started to really train yourself and And then find evidence of, look, good things happen.

43:35I was right. I was right. Good things happen to me today. And then the next day. Yeah. And it's just a reaffirming mindset. And I think a lot of people don't have that mindset. Can I tell you something I said to my mom that like literally shook her to her core? Tell me. There was one exam. I think this was like seventh grade. And it was biology. We were all, it was like bio class now. And it was a very, very hard test. And I ended up getting a very bad grade on it. and I went home and I showed my mom. My mom was obviously disappointed. She was like annoyed with me. She's like, why didn't you study harder?

44:11And she asked me a question. I don't know what compelled her to ask me this. She goes, well, did it ever occur to you when you were taking this test that you didn't know the answers when you didn't know the answers, like to just like cheat off of someone else? And I looked her straight in the eye and I said, well, why would I cheat off of someone else? They're not smarter than me. and she was like where did this confidence come from but i think it's this belief that like not that i'm actually smarter than other people but like i've outworked everybody i feel in my life like people don't want it as much but i do i remember there like when i first started creating social media content there were other people who had larger followings more you know locked in communities.

44:55They were making content. And so many of them have stopped. Why? Because content takes time to make. Ideation is a slog. You were on a hamster wheel. But I feel like I have a higher pain tolerance than other people. I'm willing to work harder. I'm willing to work for longer for harder. And I will put in the elbow grease if I know it's going to pay off. And I deeply believe that it does because everything in my life has shown me that the harder I work, the better outcome I get. Yes. And because I proved it to myself, I keep believing it. You keep doing it too. You keep believing it and you keep acting on it.

45:31Yeah. I love that. What would you say is the one financial habit that separates the lower or middle class from the upper class? Buying liabilities versus assets. To put it simply, I feel like the lower middle class buys stuff. They buy stuff that loses value over time or costs them money, and they do it to look rich. But the really wealthy people, they will buy a fugly duplex in some no-name town, and then they will flip it. They will make it nice. They'll rent it out. Now they have an income-generating thing. Mm-hmm. They're not buying stuff. This isn't the Gucci sweater. This is something that makes you money.

46:19Yeah. And rich people love to use this strategy. It's called buy, borrow, die. Mm-hmm. So they buy these assets. Do you like this strategy? Do I like it? I think it's smart. Do I think it's ethical? No. But I also don't think it is on them to not use this strategy. I think it is on our legislators to make certain loopholes less easy to exploit. Because I feel like whatever system currently exists, everyone should be using it to the best of their ability to get what they want out of life. Yes. That is the only thing I can say. So what is this strategy that the wealthy do different than? So it's called buy, buy, or die.

46:57So regular people, they buy stuff. And they buy, if they're lucky, 75 years of stuff. And then they're like, ah, it's stuff. Cool. You still like that stuff? probably not rich people they go buy that shitty duplex i told you about it's ugly and they buy you know something not that exciting maybe a full portfolio of index funds nothing nothing that they can show on their instagram okay but they buy these assets and what people don't realize is that the folks at the bottom they work really really hard to buy stuff but before they can buy that stuff, the government takes a huge cut because that is income, that is earned income.

47:40So, you know, if you're in the top tax bracket, that's like 30 some percent effective, net effective. And then you probably have to pay state and local income taxes to average person. Even so, you're still probably giving up about a third of it. Then you go buy your stuff. Rich people, they know that they are going to buy these assets. All right. And this is with money that they did have to pay that tax on, but they want to stop paying that tax as soon as possible. So what they do is they then build this asset portfolio that is monstrous and then they borrow against it. Because guess what? Even if they sold some of their equities or their stocks, the max tax they would ever have to pay on it is 20.

48:20So you're already doing better than the third. But they're not even going to sell it. They are going to borrow against it because guess what? Debt is not counted as income. You don't get taxed on debt you take out. They use that debt and then they live their life. They get to do their fun things. And they oftentimes get interest-only loans. So they're very small payments that you actually have to make back. You just keep the loan outstanding. They have more and more assets. Their assets continue to grow in value. The bank continues to lend them at a very, very low interest rate because they're so rich.

48:51And then the dying part, very key, OK? When you die, what happens? When you die, this is why we talk about this in my book, Well Endowed. The estate plan is so, so key because what they do is they have this trust. OK, so this trust holds all the assets and then that trust passes those things, those amazing money making things down to the next generation. Tax free. Here's how it works. It is inherited at something called a stepped up basis. Okay. So if you are my dad, okay, you buy something for$10. It appreciates, appreciates to a thousand dollars. You give it to me during your lifetime and I sell it.

49:39The gain on that sale is$990 and I have to pay taxes on that$990. But if I give it to you when I die, if you are already dead, okay. And then you inherit it. And then I get it. The asset gets remarked to market. What's that mean? So the cost that I bought it at is a thousand. So it's not the 10 that you actually bought it at. My purchase price is a thousand. So if I buy it at a thousand because I inherited it from you at a thousand and then I immediately sell it, what is the gain on that? Nothing. It looks like I made no money. I don't pay taxes on it. I pay off my papa's estate debt. It all gets done.

50:27And then I have this money. I have these assets that make money and I'm going to borrow against them because I am your very, very rich daughter. And I've learned these things because the generational wealth is the generational knowledge. Say that again? The generational wealth is the generational knowledge. Wow. I mean, so that's all about building a trust then and assets that are in that trust and then borrowing against it and never selling your assets. Why would I sell my assets? I can take a loan. Right. I love loans. I love debt. Rich people love debt. It's crazy. But I think, isn't there something around debt that scares a lot of people too?

51:04What if there is a crash and you have to actually pay off all that debt at one point and you don't have the money? Then what? There's a fear around this anxiety of like, I've got all this debt and these payments. Can I pay them off? That's why there's diversification. Because I'm not just holding an equities portfolio. I've got maybe some crypto in there. I've got maybe a real estate portfolio in there. I've got collectible art. I've got all of this other stuff in there. And these markets are more often than not indirectly correlated. When there is a market crash, oftentimes you'll see certain things of tangible value go up.

51:42So things like gold. Cryptocurrency is considered more like, you know, decentralized. So that actually performs better when the market's not doing as well. collectibles of like rare art, jewelry. Cards. Exactly. Those all do well when the market is down. So when one is down, the other is up. When the other is up, the other is down. But your portfolio over time continues to bloom. And you're not buying stuff, you're buying assets. Assets. Wow. Stuff and assets are very different. Stuff is the baseline model, like, you know, classic original recipe Birkin bag. Okay? So many people have them. You can literally find stores with four dozen of them in Japan on the secondary market.

52:25Not special. What is an asset? Something that's special. An asset is the Tiffany Blue. I can't even remember if it was the Patek Philippe or the Audemars Piguet watch. I'm not a watch person. I'm not fancy enough to know all this. But they made eight of them. There's only eight of them in the world. You're going to tell me those are going to go down in value? Right. You're gonna tell me that's not the holy grail for every big watch collector on earth Yeah So you got married about two years ago or last year? We got married a little over a year ago a little over a year ago Um, what are what are a few things that you learned about money after getting married that you wish you knew before?

53:07Specifically I would say about the wedding process is It's way more expensive than you think it's way more expensive than you think I went I was like nearly 3x my budget Oh, yeah, I was like what the hell and it's you you know, I don't know if you've watched Legally Blonde. The movie? Yeah. I mean, it was like 20 years ago, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course, yeah. So there's this scene where the - Reese Witherspoon? Reese Witherspoon is defending this, you know, Pilates, or like she's like a workout instructor in court. And she was like, I need an alibi. What were you doing that day? And she's like, I was getting liposuction.

53:37Right. And she's like, liposuction! And I feel like that when I talk about wedding budgeting because I feel like such a fraud because I tell everyone like, oh, set a budget. that I set a budget and I went past it. I blew past it twice. And I think the frustration is, is that like we realized that money is so much more emotional than we even gave it credit for. Like my husband and I have never fought about money because we have had an open line of communication about our finances so very early on. I lived in a roach infested apartment. I had to tell him how much I was making because I had to move out.

54:09I had to break my lease. I didn't have any money. Long story short, we talked about money probably 30 days into dating each other. like from first date to 30 days in i told him everything that's great we've never ever thought about money but during the wedding planning process and agreeing to stuff there were some tense moments i will say because i think for him our wedding was like a climax moment to maybe show the world what he had accomplished. And for me, I don't know if I needed that. But I think there's a lot more ways for women to flex than there are men. Sure. So like if you actually think about it, right?

55:00Like women, we can buy shoes. We can buy bags. We can buy clothes. We can, you know, do our hair nice. We can do our makeup. What is like something that men flex with? Maybe a car or a watch. Maybe a car or a watch. Or something like that, right? Right. Exactly. I guess if you bought a house, maybe. You know what he tells me? He's like, well, I bought you a really big ring. And when I bring you around and people see how big your ring is, that is a flex for me. It's true. And so I think for him, there are so few moments in his life where he gets to celebrate. And so he wanted some big things. Yeah.

55:29Private fireworks. You got to pay a guy to go off on a little boat and like shoot stuff off. Like that's very expensive. Like this man is risking his life. And it is very expensive per minute that the fireworks are going off. They charge you by the minute. Yeah. They he wanted, you know, the the upper level food and the like 10 person band and the amazing quartet orchestra while he was walking with his mom down the aisle. He wanted all these things. And at a certain point, I was like, you are so wasteful. I can't believe you want this. Like, why, why, why, why? And it wasn't until I realized that, like, he had never been able to celebrate all of his accomplishments.

56:11in the way that I had, that I finally realized it wasn't about the money. It wasn't about the wedding. It was about being able to say that like, I'm in a position in my life that I never thought possible. I want to celebrate with somebody who I've committed my entire life to. Right. And in part, we want to make sure that it's a memorable experience for all of the people we're asking to come halfway across the world to Italy to. Sure. And it wasn't until he explained it to me like that, that I was like, okay, well now I feel bad. Now I feel like the dirt bag. Yeah, exactly. So I think it's, you know, something that I give advice to everybody.

56:51And I say this in my book, when you are talking to your partner, one of the first conversations needs to be on me. Date one. Yes. Date one. To know who you're getting into a relationship with. Correct. we talked about this before but do you think every couple that is going to get married should get a um gosh a prenup yeah you think you think every couple should get a prenup why should women want a prenup and men want a prenup when getting married because and i will give you the same answer and it has not changed and in fact i feel even strongly more strongly about it because now I have one. Do you trust the government?

57:28Yes or no? No, not fully. Right, right, right. I mean, maybe there's some things that are good, but other things I don't. Yeah. I don't care if you're left. I don't care if you're right. I don't care if you're center. Yeah. You don't agree with everything our government does. True. Why would you let the government dictate how you and your partner go through the most challenging experience you will likely face together and then separate you to. Why? All a prenup is, is not you saying I don't trust my partner. It's saying I don't trust the government. I want to sit down with my boo on a sunny day, on a day when we still really like each other.

58:08We are madly in love and talk about how will we make sure that we are kind and fair to each other in the worst case scenario. Gosh, but most women don't like thinking about divorce. They don't want to go into a conversation saying, why are we going to talk about divorce? I don't want to get divorced to you. I don't want to think about getting into a car wreck. Do you still have car insurance? 100%. Yeah. But talking to a woman who's emotionally not thinking about getting a divorce, the emotions come out sometimes. But I think there are things that people aren't realizing. Being in a relationship is so much more expensive for a woman than a man.

58:47Because more often than not, if you're the one having the child. Yeah. Can't work for a while. You can't work for a while. And that's not just the amount of time off or whatever that you lose out on that income. It's that what that income could have compounded over the course of your lifetime. And there are things like, oh, well, you know, if I spend a decade of my life being the household CEO, I prefer that versus like a stay at home because you really are the CEO of the house. You are. You are the chef, the chauffeur. You are the maid. You are the person who is the project manager, you are doing it all.

59:25You really are doing it all. But if you're doing all of that unpaid labor, which by the way, the unpaid labor accounted for at a global society is in the trillions. We just don't really factor it in because most of the time it's done by women and we don't value their time the same as we do men's. And so I would say having a prenup where you have already agreed that you will get a mom's salary so that you can have your own money. So So even if you are a stay-at-home parent, you still have your own money because 99 % of domestic violence cases include financial abuse. Interesting. It's important you have your own money that is in your bank account.

1:00:04Nobody else's name is on it. Maybe you want to ensure that you will have spousal support because you are giving up your career to perhaps move across the country to help support this person and their business. You want to make sure that your children are taken care of. you want to make sure that regardless of what happens neither party should be left you know uh destitute and neither party should be left a robber baron right like you are trying to come to an agreement that's fair yes and that's really all it is it's you want to be fair to your partner do you like your partner because if you like your partner you're not trying to screw them over and that's why we have this conversation and we do this process when you still like each other I think it's so important.

1:00:45Me and my wife, Martha, went through that. And I think I fell in love with her way more once we went through the whole process. One, you know, we were very open about everything, but it forces you to fully share every - You have to get financially naked. Every bank, you know, that you have, anywhere you have money or any assets. And there were a few things that we just forgot to share with each other. It's not like we were hiding from each other, but it's like we really had to document everything It gave me more financial clarity. I was like, oh, I'm actually organizing my stuff because I have stuff everywhere.

1:01:19It helped me. It helped her. And then we were able to look at things together. I was like, wow, you've actually made a lot of money. I was like, that's pretty good. You know, I was like, I was impressed. I was like, amazing. And in particular, for your wife, who is a huge success, has a, you know, huge business, has multiple streams of income, taking on the role of a household CEO, even just to make herself uncomfortable for nine months. Let's be honest. Pregnancy, you're vomiting in the morning. You are twice the size that you normally are. She wasn't comfortable for nine months. And I think that we have to acknowledge the value and the cost of that.

1:01:58100%. Because that is a huge contribution to your family. 100%. My legacy, my love, everything. And it's not just nine months and then you're back to normal. No, it's going to take months for her to recover and heal and all these different things. I mean, what she forget childbirth is also like a surgical procedure. It was, it was scary. Yeah, it was scary. I mean, did you pass out? No, I was pretty good. That was pretty. I was in the zone. I was like athlete mode. Okay. I'm going to ask her and see, can get her opinion the next time I see her. It might be different. I think she'll say I was good.

1:02:29I mean, I was, it's crazy. I haven't talked about it yet, but it was, I mean, she went to the ER twice within the last month after giving birth. And it was scary. I mean, it was like life or death scary. And she's now in a much better place and really recovering, but she still needs months of recovery where she's not able to go do normal working things. But it's a lot of women to be a mom. And I think it's like a two-year journey. I'm not saying you can't work leading into pregnancy and being pregnant, you can still work, but it takes a lot more toll on your body, on your emotions, on your mindset.

1:03:05and I think we just have to be more aware of that with women. It's a lot. Yeah. Physically, emotionally, it is a lot. It's a lot on the guys too. I mean - It is. I've been in the hospital for the whole month trying to support her. It's like I'm away from work too, but it's like it's even more so on her. So the thing that I'm interested in is generational wealth that we're talking about. When someone who is broke hears this word generational wealth, it seems so far away. It seems so unrealistic. It seems like that's not for me. How could I even think that way? If someone's broke or struggling financially and they have the possibility in the future to create generational wealth, what do they need to start changing around in their mindset and their daily habits in order to set themselves up for that in the future?

1:03:52Yeah. I think there can be a big woe is me attitude of if you're not born into generational wealth, you're like so resentful. but the thing that bothers me is that like people want everybody wants to have generational wealth but we hate seeing it in use why is that we're jealous of people we're jealous it's jealousy it's just we want it but we hate people that have exactly but we want it ourselves but it's hard to get something that you hate in someone else correct right correct if you hate someone else having it but you want it it's hard for you to attract that yes but i think we need to reframe this around, like you may not have been born with generational wealth, but to have generational wealth, you might be the generation who has to make it.

1:04:34Yes. And I say this and I joke and I'm like, yeah, unfortunately I'm the one in the family tree who has to be the one who like really plants the seeds. Yes. And I may not actually ever get to taste the fruit. Gosh, but you're the one who started it. You're set up your family tree for generational wealth. Someone's got to be the Someone has to do it. Like there is always, unfortunately, someone who has to be the one who makes the money. Because you can't just have inheritance, inheritance, inheritance. At some point up the tree. Someone did it. Someone did it. Someone stepped. They came from nothing to something.

1:05:08They went on the skinny branches. They risked. They put their life on the line, their career on the line. They went broke multiple times to create that freedom for themselves. Correct. And they were willing to endure the pain like you've been willing to do. Yeah. They've worked harder. They got knowledge. They found a mentor. They maybe got a couple of lucky breaks and they went hard on that luck. Yeah. And you know what else? This is the craziest thing. You know, most generational wealth actually doesn't last past three generations. Why? Because the knowledge doesn't pass? So basically it's like you've got the generation that makes the money, right?

1:05:43They work hard, something. Perhaps it's the next generation that saw their parents work really, really hard. so then they actually expand on the business they're doing a really great job but they've always lived a decently comfortable life yeah they didn't struggle like they didn't struggle and then the third generation they see nothing but privilege they have never struggled they also haven't had the knowledge of the struggle passed down so like you have to do this you have to do that like watch out for this pitfall like they've always lived life on easy street and if you live life on easy street, it's very easy to get swindled.

1:06:20Interesting. So it's the third generation typically is where things kind of fall apart. So how do grandparents who create the generational wealth in the first place pass down the knowledge for the third, fourth, fifth generation to sustain it and grow it? Well, one, I think it's passing down that knowledge, making financial literacy an important part of your family. Like I have every intention of giving my kids an allowance and then taxing it. Be like, okay, your allowance is$10. Got to pay taxes this week. $2 back, give it back. Wow. So they feel the pain. They feel the pain. You don't want to just give them eight.

1:06:54You want to give them 10 and then make them give you two back. That's interesting. And put two into a jar. And that jar is the public goods jar. And maybe once that jar gets to a certain point, the whole family gets to go out for ice cream. Wow. Or the whole family gets to go do movie night. But it's a public good jar. It's not just you. So even if you're mad at your sister that day, we're going to get ice cream and she's getting one too so you have to understand how public goods work but also it is about making so that there are guardrails so you give them enough rope to climb and i kind of like hate this metaphor but like you give them enough rope to climb but you don't give them enough to hang themselves it is about making sure that they are getting money and knowledge but it's not enough to just say all right you're 18 here's your trust fund no because you know the trope right all these deadbeat kids who spend all day on their couch they don't they know they don't have to work they don't have to get a job they don't have to make something of themselves they have no ambitions because everything in their entire life has been handed to them on a silver platter yeah i would hate for my kids to end up like that so the thought is if you have a trust if you have a living will if you have all of these estate planning documents set up in the right way you can be very very specific yes and you can say at age 18 you will get x amount of money specifically earmarked to be used for your education whether that's trade school culinary school going to college whatever you want to be if you don't use that money on these specific purposes go back in the pot or maybe it gets donated charity say my kid i mean I don't know if this would even be a realm of reality, but they turn into an amazing YouTuber at 17.

1:08:40They don't want to go to college. Fine. If you're making a million bucks a year, I'm not going to force you to go to college. But like if that money doesn't go to them based on exactly how I've outlined, they're not getting it. OK, but 21 rolls around. You're going to get a little bit of money. Yeah. Maybe to help you with your first apartment or get you a car, not a Maserati, but like a Volvo. something safe a honda civic a toyota camry um and get them something practical but that's not like some lemon that you got that has 150 000 miles on it because i don't want my kid driving around in a death trap and so you can earmark these things and it's like okay maybe when you turn 30 we will give you a little bit more or you will get a certain amount upon which you get married but there needs to be a prenuptial agreement in place you can literally dictate how you want your money to be used because damn if i'm not going to have a say i'm the one who made it yeah i'm the generation who had to make it absolutely so you're not going to lose it they're not you're not going to lose my money and if you end up being a loser deadbeat i'm going to have something called a skip generation and all that money is just going to your kids and if you don't have kids it's going to a charity wow and a lot of really really smart business people actually have this in place in that i think there was this japanese company where the grandfather who'd you know built the company had a skip level generation where all of the money went to the grandkids but all of the ownership in the business went to the parents interesting So both the parents were incentivized to work hard, but the kids were also forced to learn the business of, you know, the company.

1:10:32And it's like, there's really creative ways that you can do this. That's beautiful. To make sure. And that's all through the trust that you build, right? Yeah. Yeah. And there's so many different types. And I really encourage people to like talk to an estate planning attorney to see what actually makes sense for them. Absolutely. You talk a lot about all these strategies in your book, Well Endowed. Make sure you guys get a copy of this. One of them is about navigating life's biggest financial decisions around marriage, kids, home ownership, all these things you're talking about right now. What do you think couples do wrong when they try to combine their finances?

1:11:06What's a mistake they make when they do that? Well, they're doing it at engagement. Hello? What happened to the dating period? There's a stat out there, and I can't quote the exact number, but I want to say it's like 48 % of couples don't actually talk about money until they're engaged. What? Should be the first month. Should be the first. Frankly, I say it's the first date. First date. You can ask a question that's like, oh, hey, if you got a million dollars tomorrow, what would you do? That's not a show me your W-2. That's very much like a fun first date question. It doesn't feel out of the norm.

1:11:43It doesn't feel like, you know, kind of a pressure-y thing. It's just a fun exercise to see what this person is like. Yes. But you get to start talking about money early and you know what it means to that person. Are they opening up their own bakery because they've always had a passion for baking? Or are they going to go buy a duplex apartment because they really want to start making passive income? Do they you know, do they like tell me what they do? And so I think when couples wait too late, you end up marrying people who you are not financially compatible with, people who do not value a dollar the same way you do.

1:12:15And that ends up becoming a big problem. And I think in part why there are so many irreconcilable differences in some couples in the same way that like Politics or religion or do you want to have kids? Yes or no? Those are kind of deal breaker questions I think How you think about money and how your relationship with money is is a deal breaker question Do you think couples can last if they love each other? But they don't have the same values around money. Louis do you think love is enough? No, I don't I don't either I don't. Because guess what? Sure, you can last through the honeymoon period. Sure, you might be able to last the first five years.

1:12:52But if I have the great love story that I'm hoping to have, it is going to be like 70 years. Right? I got married at 30. If we get to 100, that's 70 years. You're going to tell me that love is going to carry us for 70 years? Are you like, are you joking? Are you crazy? Like, I truly believe that you have to work out a relationship to want it. The grass is greener where you water it. And I treat my relationship like a business, my business, the business that I pour all of my energy and my time and my love and my adoration into. I give my relationship the same kind of care. And I know that doesn't sound romantic, but I build smart systems.

1:13:37I keep the right people on staff. I take time to really evaluate. I do a quarterly business review, but also quarterly financial review with my partner. Like I treat my relationship like a business. And if we took it as serious as we do making a business, fewer people will get divorced. Yeah. How many people do you think, I don't know if there's a stat around this, but how many people do you think die every year around money stress or money problems or money issues? I mean, I wish I had the stat because that'd be really, really powerful. but financial anxiety is one of the worst and most pervasive things because it doesn't turn off so like say you have anxiety in your relationship when you go to you know see your boys you don't you don't think about you know the old ball and chain for right you get a little break you get a little break yeah but if you have problems with your money you feel it at home you feel it at the grocery store, you feel it at work, you feel it when you go to do anything fun because you're not sure if you can afford it.

1:14:44It is constant. It's like suffocating you. Always. And it's on your phone. Yeah. Imagine not being able to escape. It's on your phone. And in terms of like, look what everyone else has and I don't have it and I can't afford it. Yeah. It's like takes over your nervous system. Correct. You're on fight or flight all the time. Wow. You could be lonely and depressed by not having a relationship or have other challenges or not have a career. But if you don't have your money, if you don't have harmony around it or some type of healthy relationship around money, it really suffocates you. It holds you back in a big way.

1:15:18And again, I go back to the beginning of this conversation where you were just like, what good things happen to girls like me or something like that. I think you have to really shift your mindset around it. Even if you don't see the evidence yet that good things are happening to you. Maybe they haven't happened to you. But at some point you have to shift and start thinking and speaking in a different way about yourself So you can start seeing the evidence in real life even with small little acts that are happening To reinforce look good things do happen to me. I just found a penny good things happen to me Someone just smiled at me good things happen to me whatever it is.

1:15:51We've got to reinforce it It's why I really hate it when people are like, oh i'm i'm bad with money You're not You're on your money journey. You're starting your money. Yes doesn't that feel like so much more empowering like you are taking the first step in the right direction versus like yeah you're bad and that'll be that forever like i don't want to hear that no i'm learning i'm learning developing yeah i'm just getting started i'm excited about the journey i'm still excited about learning spanish i'm not bad in spanish i'm still learning spanish that's so funny i love this vivian your your book is really powerful it's called well endowed the secrets to strategic spending, building a financial foundation for you and your family and creating lasting generational wealth.

1:16:37Make sure you guys get a copy or two. Grab some for your friend. If you're trying to understand money more and feel more financially at peace, this is the book to get started. You've got a lot of great content on social media. And I love that you also said, because I'm in like a next phase of my content journey. I've been doing it for 15, 17 years of creating content. I mean, look at this beautiful office. 13 years of doing the podcast every week for 13 years. And I'm in a whole new phase of like doubling down and creating content and really like leveling up with my own personal content as well.

1:17:16So you inspire me that you say you're willing to work harder, ideate stronger and keep like grinding it out. For longer. For longer, even when not everything is going viral role it's like you keep showing up and i see that in your content on social media and i dig that about you i dig it about you you're doing amazing i asked you these questions before in our previous episode but i'm curious your perspective now a couple years later uh if this was if you got to live that 70 year relationship journey but for whatever reason it's the last day on earth for you many many years away and you got to accomplish all your dreams and all your goals personally professionally, it all came true.

1:17:55But for whatever reason, all of your content had to go with you. All of your books had to go with you. And we didn't have access to that content anymore. Yeah. But you could leave behind three lessons to the world. Three things, three things you knew to be true personally, professionally, whatever it might be. What would those three truths be for you? Okay. First one, your partner is the most important financial decision you'll ever make. This is the person that you are going to literally navigate this world it is hard enough as it is you better pick someone who is your number one cheerleader and thinks the sun shines out of your butt because if you have a hater at home you won't accomplish anything oh that's a rain cloud at home snap um two i would say if you want to live in a village you have to be a villager um i think so many of us have like the favors economy, we've given up on it.

1:18:51In our parents' generation, if I needed to go to the airport at 6 a.m., I'd be like, hello, neighbor Lewis, will you drive me to the airport at 6 a.m.? And we used to do it. You would be annoyed because it'd be early, but you do it. And then - And I knew I could count on you to watch my dog. Exactly. The next week when you were out of town, I would walk, you know, like Ranger, and Ranger and I would go on a walk, even though it meant that I might have to come home from work a little bit earlier. Fine. We would do each other these little favors, But now these favors have been replaced by companies.

1:19:18And now you are spending an arm and a leg for thing that our communities used to do for us. We got, you know, the apps that you can on demand get taken somewhere. You have these apps that can on demand come walk your dog or bring you food or do these things. And we don't have to care for each other in the way that we did. And when we don't foster that community, we don't show up to the PTA bake sale. We don't go to the housewarming. We don't bring over a bottle of wine on a Thursday night. Like we lose the village because we are not being villagers. Would you say you're a good villager? No. No, I'm terrible.

1:19:55I think we could all certainly afford to be better. Yeah. I think I was a really good villager in college because I lived within a, you know, one mile. Yeah, a one mile radius of every single one of my best friends. I would show up for them. I would make time. But I also had so much more time. Yeah. Now you don't. And now I don't. And I am certainly as someone who is a high earner, have outsourced so many parts of my life in a way that sometimes I look and I'm like, oh man, it feels a little empty. Really? Yeah. It feels like lonely or empty or lack of community. Lack of community. And I only feel it again.

1:20:33And that warmth and that joy is like when I truly spend time with my girlfriends. Really? Yeah. Wow. It's really important to have that community. There are things that I can talk to them about that I can't like. It's not that my husband doesn't understand. It's different. It's different. Yeah, yeah. And it's good to have. Of course. It's both and. Yeah. Interesting. So do you feel like you actually reinvest in being a good villager? I'm trying. I'm trying. But when you're so busy and you got a lot of projects and you're creating and you're married and you got. I think something that I did a really good job of is I just moved in Miami.

1:21:04I'm in a new building and I'm so devastated because this new building. It's wonderful. Don't get me wrong. Yeah, you're looking at the ocean. Yeah, everything is amazing. But I'm devastated to be in this new building because the average age of the resident is younger than my last building. I would say the average age is probably 40, maybe early 50s. And you're like younger. The last building I was in, the average age was like 70. And it was so easy to build community. I would go to Pilates the same time twice and somebody would be like, what's your name? Because these are people who came up in the favors economy.

1:21:44There was one time one lady handed me a bag and she was like, I live in the South Tower, but you live in the North Tower. Can you go bring this banana bread to somebody? I'm like, I don't know this person, but yeah, I'll do it for you because you have now pressured me into doing this for you. And there was one time I was actually, I had gotten off of the wait list for a workout class. All of these 70 year old women are stronger than me, more physically than me it's fine um i got a text and it was like vivian you're running late for this workout class like do you want me to save you a map yeah and i was like what the am i late for this class but two it would like never occur to me to text someone that i don't really know that well these aren't like my best friends these are like women that i met and passing and had like you know good conversations with and i was like wow she like really thought of me in that way and she knew I was coming because I had come every Saturday prior to this.

1:22:41And so I think I could certainly do a better job fostering community. There are certainly situations where community is easier to build because everybody is so community minded. And I think I'm going to be chasing that high for, for quite some time. Okay. Yeah. Uh, and the third truth. And the third truth is this at the end of the day, nobody is coming to save you. I am going to sit here and be the first person to tell you it ain't fair. Life ain't fair. Some people are born on third base. Some people are out in the parking lot with the person who is selling those illegal hot dogs that does not have a vendor's license.

1:23:18Fine. But just because our current society is not perfect, just because it severely needs legislative change to make the financial system more fair, it does not mean that you can lose hope. You still have to have hope. You still have to believe with every fiber of your being that you can improve your station in life. No matter where you start, you can end better. And here's a little tricky, tricky thing. I recently had the pleasure of interviewing Sean White. Yeah. And I took away from this interview that Sean White is most possibly the pettiest man I've ever met in my life. Tell me why. Because he holds a grudge.

1:24:06He does not ever forget his enemies. And when someone told him that he couldn't do something or like, you know, he had an adversary at some competition, whatever, he would hold it in his head and he would use it as high octane fuel to give him hope and to power that hope with rocket power, with rocket fuel to accomplish it. to prove them wrong, to be the best. And he jokes about it because he's like, these people probably didn't even know we were beefing. It was one-sided beef. Right, right, right. I made it up in my head. But because he had something that was powering and firing his engine, he was able to keep going to do better for longer.

1:24:47And so don't lose hope and always have something that's fueling you. That's great. Your Rich BFF over on social media, make sure to follow you. Get the book Well Endowed. You can get the book Well Endowed at richbffbook.com. richbffbook.com. I have one final question for you before I ask it, Vivian. I want to acknowledge you because the last time I saw you was a couple years ago on my show. Then I came on your show for my book, Make Money Easy. And I want to acknowledge you because of your energy. I feel like it's shifted each time I've seen you. You think? I really believe it. And there's something inside of you that shifted.

1:25:23You know, not like you were horrible or something before. I see you elevating yourself and reinvesting in your health. And I think we mentioned this briefly that there's a lot of wealthy people in the world who are not healthy people. Yeah. In their relationships or in their actual physical health. And I want to acknowledge you for setting a standard. You talked about the mentor that you had that if you didn't have her, you wouldn't be where you're at. Yeah. And there's a lot of specifically women in the world who follow you that you're their big sister. You're their mentor. And because you're willing to invest in your health, they're seeing that as well.

1:26:00And they're probably making conscious decisions for their health also. So you're not only helping people become wealthier with their money, but also wealthier with their health. And I think that's the most important wealth in the world. So I acknowledge you for being on that journey. Thank you. It's hard. You've got a lot of things going on. You're doing books. You're working at a company. You're doing all these different things. and a lot of people make the excuse of, I've got too much on my plate. I can't go to the gym in the morning. I can't do it at night or I don't have time. And I think that's the most important thing is to invest your time in your health and your relationships.

1:26:34So I acknowledge you for that. Thank you. Shout out to my trainer. There you go. Well, I say shout out to your trainer, but shout out to you for constantly showing up. Your trainer can guide you and push you harder, but you have to show up to the workout. You have to make the time. You have to not make excuses. And so I acknowledge you. Yes, the team supports you, but you got to make the decision every day to show up. So I acknowledge you for that. And shout out to the trainer. Final question, Vivian, what's your definition of greatness? You know, I feel like it's changed over the years. And if I'm honest, I think I said that the last time you asked me this question too.

1:27:07It evolves. It continues to change. And but I think greatness for me now is being able to get to a point where I can just do whatever I want. Like it's all about getting to do stuff and not having to do stuff. Like I think for a very long time I felt like I had to do this. I had to do that because I wanted a certain amount of wealth, numerical wealth in my bank account. and I'm not there. I'm not to my FU number yet. Let me be very, very clear. I'm not there, but I'm getting closer. Yeah. And the closer I get, the more I'm realizing I get to choose me and I get to choose how I show up every single day.

1:27:55And I think if I keep saying yes to stuff that drains my energy or drains me, I don't then get to show up my best for the things I'm actually looking forward to. And so greatness for me is eventually being able to have the full freedom financially and also in my time to live unencumbered. Like I don't want money to be a decision, like be part of my decision making process. I just want to be able to do it because I love it. Yeah. There you go. Vivian, thanks for being here. Appreciate you. Thanks for having me. Thank you. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness.

1:28:37Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally, as well as ad-free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy and you matter.

1:29:16And now it's time to go out there and do something great.