Advantage Arsenal, Brighton upset Man City, and a dramatic twist in the WSL2 title race

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1:15Rachel: Welcome to Upfront. I'm Chloe Morgan. And I'm Rachel O'Sullivan. On today's show, we're kicking off things with the Champions League as Arsenal got a big result against on thanks to their attacking relentlessness and a few errors at the back plus an upset in the WSL as Brighton delayed Man City's title celebrations what a performance by Frank Kirby by the way finally the spiciest league in all of the leagues across the land the WSL 2 title race is coming down to the final day of the season and it could not be tighter we've got a three-horse race between Charlton and Birmingham City and Crystal Palace two of them will win automatic promotion we're here to tell you the maths involved and get the latest from Josie Green inside the Palace camp.

2:05Rachel: Rage, there's a lot going on. Like this weekend has really thrown up a couple of curveballs that we didn't anticipate would really happen. But we love it because that's exactly what we wanted. We wanted Jeopardy, we wanted drama at the top, we wanted everything in between. And we kind of got that so Get a little bit of whiplash this weekend like one minute you're looking over here going what a bright oh my god Arsenal and then you're like what's happening in the WSL too like where do I look What's your moment of the weekend before we get stuck into the Champions League first off

2:33Chloe: I'm going to go with it's not at the weekend and it's not in England I'm going to go with the fact that Penelope Harder has won the league with Bayern Munich she's won a league again I think it's the 11th time in a row that she has won a league. I just feel like she's some sort of cheat code. And if you want to win the league, you just need to get Pernilla Harder in your team. Because it was so funny because they were getting a picture of her with the trophy with her hands up and she doesn't even have enough fingers now to say how many titles she's leaked. She's one in a row. She's like, she needs another hand.

3:05It's absolutely ridiculous. So yeah, I just think that stat blew my mind.

3:09Chloe: They won it midweek, which I think probably gave them quite the boost going into that Barcelona game, with quite a bit of confidence. And they did very well against Barcelona as well. So kudos to them because I thought Barcelona were going to run away with it. So yeah, I think that for me is Penelope Harder, absolutely ridiculous stat to have won 11 league titles in a row. Unbelievable. With multiple teams. The trophy cabinet that she has. I mean, I've also got to give a shout out to Georgia Stanware. I thought she was absolutely incredible in that game. I mean, she always is. But yeah, it was a real heart of determination from Bayern in that game.

3:39Because I really thought Barcelona getting that early goal, that was going to be it was just going to be floodgates opened and we were just going to see kind of a silly score that meant the second leg didn't feel as dramatic but credit to them that was absolutely yeah it was it was mind-blowing I'm looking forward to the second leg so much you going out there for the second leg you covering that at all I won't be because of WSL

4:00Chloe: everything's happening at the same time Chloe so let me tell you something I've basically changed my schedule so Sophie's going to do the Lyon Arsenal game I said that I would stay home and I would shoot the Charlton Birmingham game and the Manchester City Liverpool game so that I could get two trophy lifts. And now I might not get any trophy lift. How annoying is that? That is so awkward. Not that Man City won't necessarily win it, but they may not, unless Arsenal lose midweek, they won't be lifting the trophy this weekend. Palace could come from behind and snatch everything and I'd just be at all the wrong games.

4:34Rachel: You sound a bit bitter, if I'm honest. A little bit. I'm a little bit annoyed, Chloe. The best laid plans often go awry. Yeah, I mean, to be fair, it's that you've been working in the game for about 15 years now. You can never really, even though we've talked so much about, you know, City winning and these things happening in the WSL, you can never really call it until it's actually a done deal. Like, you know, is it the fat lady sings? It's that kind of vibe. So, yeah, I have sympathy for you always, but. Yeah, I'll be so annoying if I don't get any trophy lift this season. How disappointing.

5:06I'm so sorry about that.

5:08Rachel: Moving on to my moment of the weekend. it's a bit of a weird one I kind of want to give a bit of a shout out to West Ham they won against Liverpool this weekend obviously not really expected to but it was kind of a bit of a relegation battle and it kind of felt like it was the first time that I'd seen this like real powerful like heart and determination from West Ham to kind of just see out this win they got a goal from it was a Shakira Martinez header at the front post that kind of crept in and it was an own goal from Kapox in the end But what I really loved was West Ham actually defending so well and so consistently for 90 minutes.

5:46It was the best defensive display I'd seen. And this is obviously from a team that has struggled defensively the entire year. They have, I think, the second worst goal concession rate in the WSL. And it just felt like, actually, I just want to give a team that hasn't had many flowers this season a little bit of credit.

6:03Chloe: Yeah, I thought there was two things they did well. A, they started the game really well, were creating lots of chances and actually capitalised on the chances they're creating. Because so many times they've had games where they're creating and don't put them in the back of the net. I would say they did struggle a little bit with that, though. There were so many ASE chances and I was just like, please. No, I know, but they went ahead. That's the point. Like other games, they'd have just not forced that goal. Secondly, they didn't give up that lead. And in the past, we've seen that from them as well, where they've dropped points from either winning positions or from being in a draw and ultimately losing the game.

6:34Chloe: and the momentum shifted multiple times in that game. It swung back to Liverpool, it came back to West Ham a little bit at times. So yeah, I think for them to A, get an early goal and B, actually see it out are huge, kind of a big moment for them. And I think as well, I appreciate Leicester City have a game in hand over West Ham, but they are on nine points and West Ham are on 16. So seven points adrift if Leicester beat Arsenal this weekend and then win the rest of their games, things will get interesting. but in all likelihood that win has just put them that little bit further away from Leicester.

7:09So that's it. It is a big three points for them.

7:11Rachel: Definitely. And I think you can tell how excited they were. It did feel like kind of an FA Cup final moment because they were all kind of like high five and there were smiles all around. Risa Garino was so happy. She's so animated on the side. Yeah, I really love the passion. But yeah, I mean, credit to them. It was just a really lovely, lovely moment, of course. So, yeah, that's my moment of the weekend. West Ham winning and also being defensively very bloody strong. Right, let's get stuck into the Champions League. 26 ,000 people packed into the Emirates to see a very, very dramatic fixture.

7:41Arsenal winning the first leg of the Champions League semi-final for the first time at the ninth time of asking. This was just Lyon's second loss of the season. Yeah, I mean, Rach, it kind of felt, it felt very nervy for the first kind of opening, you know, 15, 20 minutes. Obviously, Lyon going ahead in that time, thanks to that Ulibrand solo effort, which was, I mean, it was disappointing, I think, to see a goal conceded so easily in that manner. But it felt like almost in a way that it did spur Arsenal into action again. I mean, what were your thoughts on that kind of opening 15-20?

8:19Chloe: Well, let me just firstly read out. I thought this tweet was interesting from Adam Salter on Twitter. He said a couple of firsts for Arsenal. I mean, you touched on it there. The first time Arsenal beaten Lyon at home in the Champions League. first time Arsenal have won a Champions League semi-final first leg. And Renée Slaggers has now claimed a win at home against every side she's faced at home as Arsenal manager in the Champions League. So I just thought that was a few nice firsts, although some followed up that the reverse jinx is still on display potentially. It goes the other way. Anyway, the first 15 minutes.

8:49Chloe: Yeah, it reminded me a bit of the Chelsea game where Arsenal just kind of didn't really come out of the blocks at the same time as Lyon, it felt. I just thought it took a little while for both teams to find their feet but I just thought Lyon did it quicker Arsenal just looked a little bit leggy at times do you know what I mean? like just kind of sloppy passes, loose in possession a little bit and I thought Lyon did well to capitalise on that it's kind of where the first goal came from I thought it was a lovely finish from Eulabrand but at the same time it didn't really feel like

9:20Rachel: What did you actually think about that goal, the Eulabrand goal though? because that was so exposing it kind of felt like she was able to She had so much space to pick up the ball, run straight through the middle. Everyone kind of backed off her. There was a massive gap between Leo Williamson and Lotto Eubomoi. It just felt like, I don't know, everyone kind of forgot what they were supposed to do in that moment.

9:38Chloe: I thought Arsall lost possession, you know, in a bad place, essentially. And they didn't react quick enough. It was kind of as simple as that. And that's kind of what I mean with Arsall just not really being out of the blocks quick enough and being reactive and responsive enough. And I think, yeah, Eulabrand punished them. I thought her finish was lovely. But it still didn't, it didn't feel like it had swung the momentum to the degree where you felt like, OK, Lyon are going to run away with this. It didn't feel like that. Like Arsenal still felt very much in the game, but they just didn't seem to be kind of imposing themselves on it very much.

10:10It felt like the second half, Arsenal kind of stepped it up a gear. I mean, I'd love to have been in the changing room to see what Rene Slegers was saying, because I think for me, it kind of felt like they hadn't really capitalised on the moments they did have briefly in the first half. but then it felt like the second half you've got what was it in the 49th minute you've got Olivia Smith kind of direct run from the halfway line hitting the side net netting absolutely outpacing Lillia Hannes and it kind of felt like actually there was a punchier start and it kind of felt like an intent of what they were planning to do in the second half and then you've got what a minute later Kim Little picking up the loose pass and then going down in the box this controversial kind of penalty moment I mean what were your thoughts on that that the penalty call do you Do you think it was the right decision in the end?

10:49No, I think it was the right call.

10:50Chloe: I understand, like, there was enough in it for Kim to go down, but she got the ball. So I don't think Kim was looking for it, and I don't think it was a penalty. So I think, you know, I understand the referee thinking it was, because I think she was probably behind and may not have seen the contact. But that's what VAR is there for, and they used VAR correctly, which is always a nice thing to see. But just going back to that Olivia Smith chance, I was listening to the commentary on BBC in my ears while watching the game, and it was Rachel Corsi on CoComs. and she was kind of saying early on that right at the first half of start second half of starting she was kind of saying the crowd feels a bit flat like they need something to spark them up again and kind of they can feed off each other then a little bit more and that Olivia Smith chance I was the opposite side of the goal I thought it was in initially that seemed to really just spark the crowd into life and then it felt a little bit like a wave after wave a little bit from Arsenal and it's funny you should say about the halftime talk Renee Slagers was asked about that post-match and she said that there was already problem-solving going on in the first half.

11:52Chloe: She said, because obviously Mel was down pitch side with her because they'd had Aaron sent off or whatever in the last game. So she had her down, but they were kind of liaising with each other in the stands. You know, all those conversations were going on about like Arsenal's press needs to be better. And she said that it didn't feel like it needed a huge halftime talk because players were already starting to problem-solve within themselves. So it wasn't like they went in and got the hairdryer treatment, if you know what I mean. So I think as well, only being 1-0 down, it kind of makes you feel like one chance, one opportunity can turn the game on its head.

12:24Chloe: But I just thought the intensity that Arsenal came out with, Lyon didn't really match. And I just thought that once that kind of that opportunity came, the crowd lifted, Arsenal lifted and vice versa. And it just kind of then buoyed the game a little bit more. It was, I definitely felt that.

12:40Rachel: I mean, obviously I wasn't able to be at the game, but I think it definitely felt like it. no box for this one yeah i yeah i had to miss it um i was offered a box though i will say that i will say that yeah why didn't you take it why do you because i want to go shot god honestly it's almost like you play this like victim mode thing where you have to sit in the stands when actually people are offering you these lovely hospitality spaces i don't play the victim i just point out that you're always in the bloody box yeah yeah through choice um but you were talking there on it you know just needed one of those opportunities rage and then it kind of that came 57th minute you've got this free kick in a great area super super dangerous area from Lyon who steps up Caldente I mean it was obviously a really uncharacteristic thing for Ender to do she's one of the best goalkeepers in the world these things happen the sun was on her Black Stenius is running across her trying to put her off and she does it so successfully but it was just such a a huge moment it was a pivotal moment for the game it really felt like you know the Momentum was building with the fans and the players, but that really set it on fire.

13:41Chloe: Yeah, and like Arsenal don't score too many from set pieces. And I think there was a very clear narrative running through the game or thread of playing the ball low, much to I feel like many people's frustrations, because obviously Wendy Renard in that back line for Lyon makes it very tricky sending maybe longer balls or higher balls in during corners. But when you had three corners in a row go low and flat and not even go past the first player on the post, it was getting really frustrating because they just kept doing it they eventually switched the um corner taker to katie mccabe who was whipping it in more back post but that you know caldente free kick then again going low to try and avoid the very tall head of wendy and so yeah i do think i don't know let me look at this i need to find this because she she just feels like she's at least a foot above like your heart like your highest player wendy renard height 1.87 meters What is that?

14:37Chloe: Meters. Six foot two. Ishy. Six foot two. Wow. Which makes sense. Fair enough. Play the ball along the ground. All right. But yeah, so I do feel like that was part of it. And you're right. I just, I thought, I don't know whether the ball kind of bounced or bobbled just in front of Endler. And I just, you're right. Her eyeline was just caught by Blackstenius. And it just, yeah, it was a bit of a calamitous goal. And then I think Engen did her best to get back and prevent it from going in. but bundled it over the line anyway. And I think it was credited to her as an own goal, which is a bit of a killer.

15:11Chloe: But I was so close to the goal that I didn't really know what happened, you know, because you essentially try and figure out who to follow with the lens. And I thought Blackstenius was the one that scored it. And she did celebrate. So I got some nice celebrations there. But it was a bit of a, you know, people say lucky and sometimes there is an element of luck involved. But I do think Arsenal deserved a goal from the amount of pressure they were putting on that back line.

15:32Rachel: It was hard for Lyon to take because I think the pace of the ball rolling into the back of the net with Engen doing her best and ending up also in the back of the net with the ball was quite a tough one. But it wasn't, you know, I don't think Leon then capitulated by any means. You have then De Ani kind of almost getting the second goal for them, smashing it off the crossbar. And you kind of feel like it's going to, it was one of those moments where it's come off the crossbar, it's gone straight directly down and it could have gone either way. If you watch that back though, if you watch that back, watch Emily Fox's recovery run

16:04Chloe: because you know the defence was a little bit at sixes and sevens when that ball ended up with Deani and the speed with which Fox gets back from right back all the way across I appreciate she doesn't get a touch on the ball but I do feel like her sliding challenge or attempt to block the ball is what put Deani off in the first place and it ended up hitting the crossbar but I just thought that was an excellent piece of play from Emily Fox to get back the way she did She did her absolute best with that one She did her absolutely best. And then you've got, what, 15 minutes later, then the second goal for Arsenal.

16:39Rachel: Again, I don't know what the communication was like between Ender and Engen, but it kind of it feels like they're both like clattered into each other. You take it. No, you take it. Yeah, it was very much kind of like Engen thinking that Ender was going to come out, Ender thinking that Engen was going to clear it. And then it kind of just sort of fell to Olivia Smith. and the way that she actually recovered, because she was losing her foot in, pretty much almost went to the ground and then got up again so rapidly. And then to pivot her body in the way that she did to turn that, the angle was still super tight because the ball had kind of gone almost like right hand of the goal.

17:14I just thought, yeah, it's not Leon's day. It's not Leon's day at all.

17:19Chloe: Part of me wondered if that mix-up was because I think it was Lindsay Heaps who made the pass back. And I don't know whether Ender thought, is that a pass back, I can't collect it. Or maybe that's where the confusion came. The way that Olivia Smith chased that ball down, like many would say, goalkeepers got it. I just thought the intensity, what's the word I'm looking for? Like she just was not giving that ball up. She was kicked around the park. That full, you know. And still looked so happy. Yeah, no, but I mean, it just felt a real like, yeah, you can kick me around the park, but I'm still going to get a goal against you.

17:54Chloe: Particularly for Smith, you know, She came off in the 84th minute. She doesn't often play the full 90. I think that's because she does get fouled quite a bit and she ends up on the floor a bit. And I just think physically, kind of to protect her a little bit, doing the full 90 is difficult. In that game, especially, and especially given they were missing Beth Mead, Chloe Kelly, you know, they knew that the wingers were probably going to have to play a good chunk of the game. And she was fouled. Like, it seemed everyone was targeting Olivia Smith. There was like five fouls in the first half. so for her to kind of have that tenacity to chase the ball down she kind of toe-poked it away from Endler it kind of came off Endler's foot a little bit she toe-poked it and as you say she went down knew that both Endler and Engen were getting up so she was like I need to get up and first time it like I don't even have time to take a touch yeah super goal and it was richly deserved because she absolutely worked her arse off in that game and put up with a lot

18:50Rachel: 100 % And I think that was the moment, like the fans just exploded. And it was just, it was a really lovely moment for her. Like you could see it was like, she was so happy. And she's got this like infectious smile about Olivia Smith. But yeah, it was a really, really awesome moment. And I had, again, Rach, you kind of have to give it credit because like that was a ball that effectively kind of felt a bit dead. Like the opportunity wasn't really there. Yeah, you wouldn't have thought there was any. Unless she got fell by the keeper, you were like, nothing's going to come of this. Literally that.

19:19Rachel: So yeah, fair play to her, fair play. obviously this kind of puts Arsenal at a bit of an advantage going into the second leg they've got that on Saturday afternoon going over to Lyon so that'll be super super exciting Rachel looked nervous there was a big intake of breath there

19:36Chloe: I think they'll be having a couple of players back I think Melchie Lemornet will be Dumont will be back which is frightening because she's obviously such an incredible player so you know Lyon were without one or two but she will likely be back for that game which will make it difficult. And, you know, this happened last season. Lyon won 2-1 at the Emirates. Arsenal went away and won it. And I just, let's hope things aren't going topsy-turvy this season. And they carry on that momentum because they've got a game now midweek that they have to play before. And it's what I asked Renee about this. I said, you know, you had the most amount of time to prep for this first leg.

20:14Chloe: And now you've gone and got like arguably the least amount of time you're likely to have between games to prep for the second leg. So she said, look, the players are in now. They're already in their ice baths. They're already doing their recovery now. They're already thinking about the next game now. So I think it's interesting because last season, I'm trying to remember where they were with the league, but I don't really feel like they were in a position where they felt like they could influence the outcome of the league too much. I'd have to go back and calculate. but it feels like now you know they do Man City lost you know I said that to her I said Man City lost this weekend do you kind of have to think like oh actually this could get a little bit interesting if we win all our games and look if Man City win all their games Man City win the league doesn't matter but the fact that it could come down to two points the fact that Arsenal now if they just keep winning could really put that pressure on you've got to have one eye on that as well don't you so they can't be sidetracked by the Champions League which I think they were a little bit last season so it'll be interesting to see how they manage it

21:12Rachel: yeah I've got to agree And I think even in terms of kind of the Champions League spots at the moment, obviously it's Arsenal on 38, then you've got Man United 39 and then Chelsea on 43. And obviously that gap is certainly five points between those kind of the teams that you anticipate could be in and around the Champions League sort of second and third spot. So, yeah, that's obviously going to make a massive, massive difference. Although it might not make a difference if they then go on and win the Champions League because then they'd be in it next year in any event, I suppose. So maybe there's a back alley route into the Champions League regardless.

21:42Rachel: But before we leave Arsenal behind us, there have been lots and lots of contract news. Stina Blackstinia signed a two-year extension last week. It was also announced that Manuela Zinsberger will be leaving the club at the end of the season. She's been at the club for seven seasons. There was a really lovely like videos and interviews of her kind of thanking the fans. Yeah. I think like she's been through thick and thin with Arsenal. She's been through some really tough periods. She's been through a lot of change, a lot of transition, a lot of, you know, the squad has changed. that all these newbies have come in.

22:13It's, yeah, she really has.

22:15Rachel: Yeah, she's really seen through a massive period of change for Arsenal. And then also this morning, fresh off the press, Steph Catley signed a new deal too. Yeah, and then also, as if that wasn't enough drama, last night reports broke that Beth Mead and Katie McKay might be heading to Man City when their contracts expire. I feel like there's this like beef, this kind of weird rivalry thing between Man City and Arsenal at the moment, taking each other's players. Yeah, and then Chelsea kind of being in there a little bit. But it's, yeah, I mean, that's a very spicy rumour.

22:52Chloe: It is. I'd love that for Beth Mead. I think she'd make, like, I think, given where she is in her career, to be able to go to a team that will be playing Champions League and to bring the experience that she brings in that competition. You know, I know City are quite stacked in that department, but I do think she'd make a really great squad player. and she's the kind of player, we've spoken about it before, who understands her roles in teams. And yes, she could go somewhere else and be starting, but don't you want to play Champions League?

23:19Rachel: Yes. Certainly, yes. I mean, it also kind of makes sense because she'll be closer to Viv again. So that's quite a nice added bonus from all of this. And Man City kind of feels like the space where, you know, you've got these kind of legendary, very mature, prolific strikers. Bunny Shaw, you've got Viv Media Mark, Beth Mead, like all these like legendary scoring icons, like a hemp it's yeah Gino, Carolyn keep naming them there's so many oh god I can't I can't it's also Beth

23:47Chloe: Beth has proven to be quite versatile as has Katie McCabe you know Katie McCabe dropped back into centre back position again during that Lyon game and I know some online were pointing out that you've got Kadina on the bench and you'd rather put Katie McCabe in there over Kadina that says a lot but actually what McCabe offers is A. that pace I think B. she offers the fact that she takes set pieces you know There's just a couple of different things that you don't want to upset in that situation. I don't think it's necessarily a case of she's better at the job than player X. I just think in terms of what she was offering on the pitch in that moment and what Arsenal needed, it made more sense for her to shift across.

24:23Chloe: But Beth Mead has done it before. She's played in multiple positions. And they're both quite versatile and willing to do that. So it's a bit like having a little bit of a Swiss army knife with loads of experience in multiple competitions. Well, apparently Arsenal were willing to offer a deal for Mead, but City are probably going to offer a longer contract.

24:40Rachel: So, yeah, it's going to be a difficult, difficult decision for Mead to make. So watch this space. I love the fact the transfer window is heating up so, so soon. I mean, we've not even finished April yet. There's still the league, there's the FA Cup, there's the Champions League to finish. Well, sevens, obviously. And yet we're already talking about who's going to be going, leaving, wrapping up, gone to another country it's getting earlier and earlier I feel like the amount of games Arsenal have yet to play the league will be done and dusted City will have lifted the trophy and Arsenal will be in June still catching up on the fixtures that they have to play it's all for naught guys, it's already done Coming up after this, Brighton upset the league leaders

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26:38Rachel: oh Rach we have been talking every single pod pretty much for the past month or so now maybe even a little bit longer about how we feel like the the title is almost wrapped up Man City you know I've got their both hands almost or both hands literally saw the clip it's in their bosom like they have their feet on it like well literally literally almost like polishing it starting to put the m into the engraving like that kind of vibe and then lo and behold spanner in the works the seagulls step up um if city had won this game and also went on to drop points against lesser city on wednesday so tomorrow then city could have secured the title midweek this week that would have been so annoying like just be like oh we won on a wednesday night do we all get together and watch the game together like what's the I mean that could

27:28Chloe: still happen if but if Arsenal drop points on Wednesday and City win then they they win on

27:35Rachel: Sunday yes that could still happen so it could still happen basically Arsenal can't afford to drop points and there's still gonna be if they win all their games there's still two points in it

27:44Chloe: City have to win all their games as well but yeah I think the interesting thing about the Arsenal Leicester matchup is that obviously everyone's expecting Arsenal will win that but Leicester also have an absolute shed ton to be playing for because they want to do everything in their power to avoid relegation zone which obviously it does look or that they're the relegation playoff it does look like they I don't know how to it does look like they're going to go down it does look like they're going to be in that in that playoff for certain but also like this game matters so much to them that you've got these kind of two competing teams one at the top of the table one at the bottom of the table.

28:21The batch both means just as much to each of them in terms of their positioning. Arsenal have one eye on the Champions League. 100%. So even though it does feel like a bit of a wrapped up fixture that, okay, well, it's probably a done deal that Arsenal are going to win that. I don't think that is the case at all. I wouldn't assume. No, I 100 % think that. So Arsenal, like you said, still have those three games in hand. If they win all of those, there'll only be two points behind City.

28:42Chloe: This is mad because the way they started, I was like, Jesus Christ, Brighton, what are you doing? Like they kept trying to play out from the back. City were all over them. They were creating so many chances and it was only 1-0. And I don't know if it was weathering that storm where Brighton was kind of like, OK, we could actually do something here. We've weathered the kind of worst of it. But the fact that City couldn't capitalise on those chances was just... They were kicking themselves.

29:06Rachel: It was that. It was such a sloppy start from Brighton. You've got kind of... They almost conceded in the first 30 seconds when the misplaced back pass to the goalkeeper. You were just like, oh my God, this is going to be a long day. It was such squeaky bum time. And then it wasn't like that, that much longer, I think. And then the pass kind of finds it out to Carolyn. You're thinking, Christ, like, get your shit together ASAP. And that they actually did. I mean, it became kind of almost like the Fran Kirby show. She assisted Madison Haley's first goal, which was such a great team move. It's kind of like ticky tacky football in and around the box.

29:41Rachel: They're all kind of past each other, a couple of backheels. It was like, it was like Barcelona-esque type football. It was just beautiful. I mean, Madison Haley, I think, I thought maybe she'd missed the opportunity because she didn't strike first time. She kind of took a touch and then struck, but she was so close to goal, it would have been harder for her to miss it. And again, it was such a lapse in judgment from Man City who had, for the most part of the game, really been on the front foot, but that kind of felt like it was, I don't know, a bit of a turning point for City. They, yeah, just didn't seem to have their head in it after that, to be honest.

30:14Rachel: I mean, there was great chances from them, But it just felt like Brighton was slowly starting to creep into it more and more and more and get more of a foothold in the game. And you can kind of see where it was headed.

30:23Chloe: Yeah, I think it was a combination of things a little bit. You know, I do think they were missing Miedema in the midfield. You know, those passes that she could find, the through balls, she could find the shots that she could take, the goals that she could score. You know, Carolyn was in that 10 position. She got herself a goal. But I just think it just, yeah, it fell apart a little bit in the second half. it was a combination of maybe the frustration from City of not not taking those opportunities allowing Brighton back into the game and then Brighton coming out like super confident um Fran Kirby as you said amazing she had two assists and then she like assisted the assist for the third goal so she played a hand in like every single goal and you know you kind of maybe underestimate not the quality but sometimes like the the level head in big fixtures so someone like a Fran Kirby who's played in huge games before, to have her in such an important key position where she plays on the pitch and also to have that level head of not being a little bit stressed when you've got some of the world's best in and around you.

31:22Chloe: I think massively, we maybe underestimate that a little bit because while one side of me respects the fact that Dario wants them to play this way, wants them to play out from the back and when things don't go right, he always takes that on his shoulders. It's like, this is the way I want them to play. but then the other side is someone watching the game you're like Jesus Christ just send it along for a minute like just take the pressure off for a minute you've got a goalkeeper like Nadozi who loves to kind of take some adventures sometimes go off on adventures or or do things where you're kind of looking and go oh my god oh no she saved that Jesus that was good that could have been disastrous but was actually really good I actually love how she's like she's so she's not a risk yeah yeah so um it made for quite an exciting game and I think once they've ridden that kind of opening wave upon wave, they managed to get that foothold in the game and just peg City back a little bit.

32:11100%. And I think, I mean, I would 100 % agree with you, Rach, in terms of Bunny Shaw kind of doing her absolute best to try and get City back in the game. So this was her 19th goal of the season that she scored. Like, she's just been, I think it's the consistency that she's shown throughout the entire season. You just looked up the stat rate. So she scores every 93 minutes for City. Like you can't get, you probably can't get any more consistent than that.

32:39Chloe: I think what's mad is that her conversion rate is 17%, which doesn't sound especially high, but it's just testament to the amount of chances and shots that she creates. And I think that's what maybe, you know, we're blown away by the number of goals she scores, but like the number of chances she creates is ridiculous.

32:57Rachel: And that's probably why she's been in the news recently, for obviously for this transfer window. I mean, she's probably the most hot property for WSL contracts at the moment. So Big Dogs Chelsea have reportedly made an offer for Shaw of at least 1 million a year. Her deal at City is obviously set to expire this summer. It's been reported that Shaw's preference is still at City, but the club are yet to match Chelsea's offer.

33:25Chloe: That's so interesting because normally we get these big numbers and then the length of the contract. So like a million pound for a four-year contract, whatever it might be. That's a million pound a year. How long is the contract they're going to be offering her? That makes it like a massive contract. It's, yeah, it feels like, you know, that meme of Leonardo DiCaprio in the boat just like throw money off it. That's basically what they're doing to try and get her. Look, it has to be a big offer for her to leave for a rival. Do you know what I mean? You know, she's going to have Champions League at Manchester City.

33:57Chloe: You know, the way they're going, they're going to be winning things. she's been there for so long she's part of the furniture like she you know she's a really big part of Manchester City so it would have to be a bloody big offer to make her move and you know even if City don't match it it doesn't mean she's going to leave you know it's not I mean it's a lot about the money but it's not all about the money and if you've got that the relationships built there with Minema and the players in and around her like they run like clockwork when they're motoring so you know going to a new club yes Chelsea are serial winners but she almost has to start again trying to build those relationships so there's a lot to think about 100 % I mean she's been at City since 2021 so you know she has like you said kind of built up that affinity with the club you know she's lived up in Manchester for a long period of time like she has that relationship like you said with Viv and the fans absolutely love her and I think she has this legacy at the club and I almost put her akin to kind of a you know an Ian Wright with an Arsenal like she's getting to that legendary status with City and you know you look at where Chelsea are at the moment, like not in a good place, going through a bit of a place of transition.

35:00You know, she, it would be a risky move for her, regardless, like you said, of the money to go to Chelsea when she split up so much kind of, just the love at City.

35:09Chloe: Yeah, and I think as well, like we touched on the relationship she's developed with Miedema. I think when I interviewed Miedema at the beginning of the season, this quote from her seemed to go everywhere. I saw so many accounts sharing back this quote that I'd gotten out of her about how she'd only played about three games with Bunny and Hempo at the same time. It's still relatively new. And what they're doing now between, I mean, you pull in Carolyn. Carolyn's having an unbelievable season as well. But between Miedema and Shaw, that link-up, that duo, they've scored, what, 29 goals between the two of them?

35:42Chloe: You add in Carolyn, who's got nine. That's still relatively new and must be quite exciting to be playing in that setup. And it's almost, almost, almost reaping rewards and potentially winning the league for the first time in 10 years. So there's a lot of good things right now at City. So again, I'm not surprised it's such a big offer from Chelsea because it's going to have to be to pull her away from that. But then on the other side of that, I also see why Chelsea have come in for her. I mean, at the moment, they are lacking a potent goal scorer. So they've got Sam Kerr, Agui Biver-Jones and Myra Miros all struggling, obviously, with injury.

36:16Kerr is actually reportedly set to leave Chelsea at the end of her contract. and obviously Ramirez has been linked with the move away too. Kat Macario left Chelsea in the January transfer window. So it's a massive period of transition for Chelsea. You've got talk also of people like Millie Bright leaving as well. It's not gone to plan the entire season. And now you've got this kind of massive changeover of a squad. They're looking for stability. They're looking for someone who knows the WSL well, who is a prolific goalscorer, who provides that consistency week in, week out. So I can see why Chelsea have dug deep in their pockets and been looking for something to tempt her over.

36:53Chloe: A word on Sam Kerr. She scored two goals at the weekend, equaling Fran Kirby's goals for the club. And had that blatant third goal been given, she would have taken the lead in scoring the most goals for Chelsea. So she's won away. But definitely worth pointing that out because she obviously has struggled with injury. So to come back and knocking on doors to break records is still pretty impressive. Yeah, 100%. And also some big news from Chelsea last week. The club announced that they will be playing all of their home games in the WSL next season at Stamford Bridge. Good, about time. Well, this is the thing, isn't it, with Chelsea.

37:30They do have a bit of a habit of kind of following other people in the league.

37:36Chloe: They will not appreciate you saying that. Most notably, I would say Arsenal. we've obviously seen quite a few clubs kind of adopt this model of having the women's teams play at the main stadia Aston Villa, Leicester and it kind of feels like Chelsea are somewhat late to this party but what I struggle with I think is the move to the main stadia not always being the best thing for the teams I think Chelsea are a team that have struggled a little bit to try and get those big sellout attendances with the same kind of consistency as Arsenal which has always surprised me because there has been such a history of success and you look at the squad it's absolutely stacked with talent that you would pay a good amount of money to go and see but it's never really translated into bums on seats at the stadium it's been very rare they've actually reached a point of getting sellouts at the stanford bridge so what i i mean even for the the chelsea arsenal champions league you know second leg fixture in the quarter finals i was thinking that is such a headline game that's such a pivotal moment and i think it was around 20 24 000 people for for that game there was a lot of empty space in the stadium and the fans that were given it the absolute biggest beans with the 3 ,000 in the corner from the Arsenal contingent so for me it feels like yes I always love to see progress I always love to see clubs moving into the main stadia where you can kind of grow and build that potential but I also do worry because like fans are so there's not enough attention sometimes given to the fan experience in these main stadia and how you actually adapt the women's games to create a good atmosphere because if it falls flat you're not going to want to go back and I felt that from the Chelsea Arsenal game that the the atmosphere in the stadium it didn't align with the nature of the game and I think some work needs to be done on that it can't just be a case of okay well the games are going to be here and that's it.

39:18Chloe: I think it's probably harder to build that atmosphere and that connection with the fans when you're doing ad hoc games throughout the season and one-off games throughout the season and I think you know I'm a bit of the mind of build it and they will come and I think it will be easier for them to start to generate and foster that atmosphere with the fans because they are doing a lot of work in the background with the fan groups and stuff to try and generate that and develop those matchday experiences like your bottomless brunches. But I do think it's a very difficult thing to do when you have a game there every two to three months, or it's a Champions League game on a Wednesday evening.

39:53Chloe: So I think, you know, when they actually stake their claim there a little bit more, I think it will be easier to start to develop those. They have the building blocks, they have the foundations, but it'll be easier to start building on that when you're there all the time rather than every now and then. Yeah, definitely. I think it kind of feels like a bit of a wait and see. And yeah, I'm 100 % right. I think you're right to mention, you know, some of the press releases that we've seen about, you know, these fan engagement things. And, you know, they're getting creators involved in some of the fan programmes.

40:18And I think they're doing a lot of deep dive research, which is something that Arsenal have been doing with their fan base, kind of engaging the women's supporters groups and engaging, you know, the gay gooners and building out the wider atmosphere around the stadiums for a number of years. I say get Bazaline as your director of fan engagement and just go from there because like that guy embodies Chelsea fan sentiment and mentality more than any.

40:43Chloe: Some side of that fan base, not like he's obviously a huge part of it, but there are people who are in a different space when they go to games and have a different experience. Yeah, I think the problem that Chelsea had was, you know, they were at this small Kings Meadow ground where it was very much, you know, a home and a hostile environment for away teams to come to when it was full. It's difficult to find a middle ground before making that jump. I'm not sure how worthwhile it is to be investing into building your own stadium that is bigger than Kings Meadow but smaller than Stamford Bridge.

41:17Chloe: Realistically, our sort of proven that you can generate a crowd that will come and give you 30 ,000 on average at a game. And if that's worth doing, you don't want to waste money building like a 15 ,000-seater stadium and then outgrow that. Do you know what I mean? Invest that money into building the audience and the fan base at your main stadium. And then you've got that proper one-club environment. I think, I mean, I disagree as it kind of being a bit of an interim stage, because I think if you take a fan base that isn't, you know, and I appreciate what you're saying about not getting consistent games at Stamford Bridge, But I think if you, when you do get those pivotal moments, because even when it was Arsenal at the Emirates, when they were actually at the Emirates, they were getting 40, 50, 60 ,000 because they were such isolated games.

42:01Everyone was like, oh, I want to see Arsenal at the Emirates. But when it has been the same thing for Chelsea, we've not seen that kind of same level of uplift. So I do think there's a bit of a risk that when you keep on playing games at Stamford Bridge, you lose the uniqueness or the rarity of those moments because it's going to be week in, week out. and I would always advocate I mean you look at the Man City model with Joy and Rachel was saying that's around sort of a 7 ,000 seat stadium but you still get the atmosphere it feels like their home it feels like their base and I think also those grounds can be used for you know the academy teams as well so you do get the added benefit of you know having those games there too but you could also create a stadium that is built around women's fans so a stadium that has you know greater access for disabled fans, you've got a stadium that is better.

42:46Women's toilet facilities, a stadium that is built around the women's team and those kind of needs. So, yeah.

42:52Chloe: The flip side of that is every stadium should have that kind of access. Oh, 100%. So, alternatively, you just improve the current system rather than making something bespoke. Either way. Especially given how much money women's football loses, it makes more sense to invest in what you already have, in my opinion.

43:09Rachel: But I think also, like, you look at, like, So I think it's about 200 or 250 ,000 pounds that it takes in the budget to open up a main stadia. And you look at kind of the financial sustainability of clubs, and I don't want to go too far into detail. We could probably do a whole episode on stadia, to be honest, the architecture of the women's stadia. And what's the preference of building your own and, you know, against having the men's stadia or the main stadia involved. But I do think the hybrid model, I think, I feel like is always the best fit. And at least until you've built that to become a more consistent fan base.

43:39But I love the debate on it. and let us know what you think.

43:42Rachel: Should there be main stadia or newly built stadium or anything else in between? We'd love to hear your thoughts. Right, coming up after this, we have to move swiftly on because the WSL2 is the spiciest thing in the news right now. It's a three horse race in the WSL2. Heading into the final game is really hotting up.

44:07Rachel: the final game of the WSL2 is this weekend it's blowing my mind how stressful this situation has become so here is the current run of play Charlton a first in the league with 42 points and a goal difference of plus 12 Birmingham City a second in the league 41 points goal difference of plus 20 Crystal Palace third in the league, 41 points and a goal difference of 13. We kind of thought that things were getting to the point where they were almost kind of wrapped up, almost a done deal, a bit City-esque really. And then this weekend, Birmingham lost 3-0 to Ipswich and missed the opportunity to go two points clear at the top with a win.

44:50Rachel: Rates jump in here because it's raising my heart rate even talking through this.

44:55Chloe: The table looked, I think back maybe at the beginning of this year, Charlton looked to be kind of like comfortably ahead. And then it was all scrapping with maybe four or five teams below them in and around. Like who's going to get second? Who's going to get third? Who's going to be fighting for their all important playoff spot? And then teams started to fall away and then Charlton started to lose and Birmingham started to win and Crystal Palace started to win. And things started to kind of the last maybe month or so to just start moving around a little bit. I think we thought Birmingham and Charlton maybe had one and two wrapped up.

45:28Chloe: Then the last couple of weeks have changed that again. As you said, yeah, Birmingham going 3-0 down to Ipswich. I checked the score at 19 minutes and it was 3-0 to Ipswich against Birmingham. I was like, what in the world is going on? Then Charlton, well, Crystal Palace, fine, like 41 points. They're cool in third at the moment. Charlton then played later in the afternoon and they were playing against Southampton. They scored what they thought was the winner in like the 92nd minute. And then Southampton went, nah, and scored in the 94th minute to make it a draw to then put Charlton on 42 points rather than what could have been 44 points.

46:06So it makes the final weekend like as ridiculous because Birmingham are playing Charlton.

46:11Rachel: Who could have predicted that that was going to be the fit? Like, how can you sometimes when I look at some of these pictures and how they line up towards the end of the season, I'm like, what crystal ball-esque type person, if you've got behind the scenes, who can foresee how these fixtures are going to become so important right at the back end? I don't understand it. And it's created such a great kind of level of attention around the WSL2. Like more than I've seen in recent years, I'd say, around kind of like this, you know, who's going to go up, who's going to be taking these spots. And I think, you know, you look at the competitiveness between these three teams at the top and you're thinking on any good day, they're now a quality level that I'd put them against any of the WSL bottom sides.

46:53Like the quality is there 100 percent. And it looks like the third place person is going to be playing Leicester, what we think is going to happen.

47:02Chloe: What's insane is we thought it was going to be between Charlton Athletic and Birmingham City for that one and two. and Crystal Palace have just like, I don't know if you know that meme, I don't know which actor it is talking to the camera, but like Jason Momoa is behind them kind of like coming creeping up. That's basically been Palace because Palace could completely throw a spanner in the works and win the bloody league.

47:21Rachel: Well, talking about someone in the thick of the Palace camp, with the privilege of seeing it kind of all unfold from the sidelines a little bit for now, with her baby the size of a squash, I'd like to welcome in Josie Green. Long time no see, Jo. Hi, you were close. Butternut squash, but you know. You're getting there, Chloe. The worst thing is you actually sent me a picture of it and I know so little about vegetables that I assumed it was a squash. That's okay. Very similar. I do apologise for that. How are you? You've been on holiday, you've been relaxing, you've been trying to take yourself away from the drama of what's unfolding back at the club.

48:01Rachel: Yeah, you look so well, mate. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Had a little trip away, probably last bit of downtime that we're going to get. So made sure to make the most of it, but ended up walking loads because I felt good. So, yeah, saw lots of sights. Probably wasn't your typical chill baby moon, but very much enjoyed. Pallets are keeping all the excitement for you. Like, I mean, you must have been watching at the weekend going, oh, my God. Yeah, honestly, I feel like I'm going to go into early labour at times. I think it's quite, I think I'd rather be playing than watching on the side, honestly. But yeah, just so proud of the girls.

48:39And the fact that they've managed to get themselves in this position is just like a testament to the whole players and staff group as well.

48:48Rachel: I mean, how's the kind of mood in the Palace camp right now? Because you kind of feel like you're in this great position where there's so much hope about how they could finish in the league. But then also, as you know, Jace, when we did the same thing with Spurs and going up, the tension and the pressure starts to really pile on and you have to keep your nerve right at the very back end. Yeah, where's the kind of tension and happiness levels in the camp? Absolutely. I think if you look at our last few results, last five results, we've really maintained that bit of consistency now. And that's been so important for us and something that we struggled with at the beginning of the season.

49:26And, you know, you've played, Chloe, and you know when you get a bit of momentum and that consistency with your game, it just kind of carries on and it turns into a habit. So just everyone's interested in a really good place. And obviously there is a bit of tension going in, but I feel like we can rely on our consistency that we've had and then take that forward into the game going on on Saturday.

49:51Chloe: At least you know, like you're guaranteed the playoff spot, which is, you know, maybe a nice little bit of a cushion, because at least, you know, if things go whatever way they end up going, who knows at this stage. But you've got that option anyway. What I can't believe is like, you know, for a long time, we've been talking about Charlton, Birmingham, battling it out. And you guys have just come creeping up behind, you know, going about your business quietly. suddenly you could be the one lifting the trophy at the weekend, which I'm really annoyed about because I've moved all of my plans so that I'm doing Charlton Birmingham on Saturday and doing Man City Liverpool on Sunday, hoping to get two trophy lifts.

50:26And now I might not get any. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I think for us, it's just like focusing on that game in front and not looking at the end goal. And I think that's really helped as a team, like just staying present in the game that you're focusing on. I think when you are up there and the pressure's on you, it can be a lot more difficult because you feel like you've got something to lose. And if you don't kind of focus and stay present in the game that you're on now, which is quite difficult, I think you can overthink things. And that's when, you know, the wheels can start to maybe fall off a little bit.

50:59So I think it's maybe helped us a little bit being in the position that we are to maintain that bit of consistency going into the back end of the season.

51:07Rachel: I feel nervous for you. Like it's making me feel anxious and I'm nowhere near the situation. Not to make it about me, obviously. But what would have finished to the end of the WSL2 though, right? Like three teams could go either way. And I just think it's great for the league. I think I've been saying this like a couple of times over the season where you're like,

51:27Chloe: oh my God, something crazy is happening in WSL2 again. I don't think we could have predicted, like for you looking at the results, we've just been saying Birmingham were 3-0 down to Ipswich after 19 minutes. Like what the hell? and then Charlton Athletic conceding in the 94th to draw. Like, it's just, you couldn't kind of bet on any of this stuff happening. It is, yeah, and it just makes it so exciting. It just shows, like, the progress that the league's had year on year and the investment that's being put in. And I think it's a league to watch and so exciting and I can't wait to see what happens at the weekend.

52:01My nerves will be on standby. Maybe I'll have the doctors on standby as well on my phone just in case my excitement levels get too much.

52:10Rachel: I mean, I don't want to put you on the spot, but I do also kind of want to put you on the spot. So if it's not too much of a curse question. Shock, I'm not shocked, Chloe. How are you feeling about promotion odds? What's your take on this? I don't even want to ask. Do you know what? I just think that you just got to focus on the game in front of you. And I feel like you knew this was the answer that I'm going to give. And I'm a big believer in, you know, not trying to think too far in the future. You just got to focus on what job you've got to do right in front of you. And that is just playing a 90 minute football game against Portsmouth.

52:49And, you know, you can't really discount. I know they've been, you know, relegated, which is unfortunate for them. But they're still, you know, it's still a competitive league. Anything can happen and they might come out and play with, you know, that bit of freedom because there's no pressure on them now. so it's still going to be a tough game regardless and full focus will just be going into that game.

53:12Rachel: Oh such a balanced answer. I know. So balanced. Insight on a match day like that. Are coaches given information on the sideline? Are they saying oh Charlton's just scored and they say like do you just try and block it out entirely or is it kind of down to the individual? Yeah well I've been in that situation before getting promoted into WSL 1 And obviously, you know, you're going to have that coaches are going to have an eye on the on the other games. Like, I feel like that's that's going to happen. And I feel like you as players, you can't get distracted by that. You know, if you get distracted by that, your mind's going to be elsewhere.

53:53But you just got to stay focused on your performance. And it can't let that, you know, affect your decision making on the pitch if you hear things at halftime. So I think it'll be very much a one eye on it from maybe the coaches and staff point of view. But I think the message will be from the players. Let's just focus on the 90 minutes in front of you, which is tough to do. But I think it's the best way to approach it. I mean, obviously, like given the history and the context with Palace, it has been a sort of very transitional couple of years for the club. Obviously, you know, you went up into the WSL after being promoted and then sort of immediately relegated at the end of the season.

54:29and then potentially now going back up again.

54:32Rachel: You've obviously had a change of manager in between all of that. So how do you think it would mean? Or what do you kind of think that, how would you feel if you did go up? And like, what do you think that would mean for the club having this kind of second chance at the top tier again? Absolutely. I just think it will be massive. And I think it's just a reward for everyone's hard work. And we all know the WSL1 is so competitive. like the investment that's being put in year on year it's just been wild isn't it I mean look at London City Lionesses this year um but it just shows the transfer rumors that the London City Lionesses is it's killing me a little bit yeah yeah I mean it's it's just gone through the roof hasn't it and I think for Palace it just shows like the progression and the ambition of the club that, you know, they're pushing still to get that WSL 1 title.

55:24And, you know, obviously change of manager, change of structure and lessons will be learned from that first time around, which is really exciting because then hopefully, you know, in this time around, it will be much more knowledgeable in, you know, what to expect from the WSL 1. I think that's really helpful because there will be lessons learned from it in a Palace point of view if it did happen. but we've just got to get there first.

55:50Rachel: Yeah, mate, I'm honestly wishing you the absolute best of luck. I hope it happens. I hope you get the wins that you need and I hope it's not as stressful coming down to that relegation playoff but I'm actually also super, super excited for that relegation playoff game. Yeah, and it's at home at the WSL2 club, right? This is the thing. Obviously, we want to focus on you guys winning it but even that playoff with the form you're in, like you go in with your tails up even if you do end up in third yeah it's just super exciting and I think any of the teams that you know between Birmingham, Charlton I think any of the teams that would land up in that position having a home game there I reckon they could galvanise some great support so I don't think it's going to be an easy playoff game for sure oh well Joseph thank you so much for joining us I really appreciate you taking the time out of your busy baby growing schedule Thank you.

56:47And yeah, looking forward to the weekend.

56:49Rachel: Enjoy the day. So the bottom line, Palace are guaranteed promotion with a win. Charlton are guaranteed promotion with a draw. And Birmingham are guaranteed promotion with a win. If Charlton and Birmingham both get promotion, let's say for some terrible situation, sorry, after Josie's chat, I shouldn't say this, but Palace lose. One of them will be super, they'll both be excited they've been promoted. One of them's getting a trophy, but the team that lost will be like as excited as the team get in the truck. It's going to be such a weird game where both of them are like, you might lose and you'll be like, yay!

57:22Everyone's a winner.

57:24Rachel: Yeah. I mean, I'm going to be watching the WSL2 like a frigging hawk for the next matches because it just feels like you really do not know which way this is going to go. Literally, I'm going to multi-screen it. It's going to be an absolute... It's just exactly the right way that you want to end a season. and I'm excited for all the clubs. They've all worked so, so hard to get into the position in the first place. They've been so, you know, they haven't always had consistent patches. It is really tough to like keep that throughout the season and your mentality gets to you and, you know, the pressure of like what it means to go into the WSL, it is crazy.

57:59But yeah, good luck to every single one of them because you've had to put in a shift to even be in this position in the first place.

58:05Rachel: So fair play. Thank you so much for listening to Upfront. Find us on Instagram and x us Twitter. I'm at morgy underscore 89. Rach is at girls on the ball and we are at upfront underscore pod. You can also find us on YouTube at upfront pod. We'll be back on Tuesday when we'll know our Champions League finalists and the WSL2 champions. I really can't call this. See you next week.

58:45Rachel: Upfront is a Stack Production and part of the ACAST Creator Network.

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