Arsenal drop precious points and a new era for Bristol City

0:04Rachel: Welcome to Upfront. I'm Chloe Morgan and I'm Rachel O'Sullivan. Well, Arsenal, one of my two teams, dropped points against Aston Villa on Saturday, which means that surprise, surprise, people are already saying the title race is done. Over. Rachel was at the Emirates to see it all unfold. Meanwhile, Man United beat Liverpool 2-0, who are still winless in the WSL. We take some of your questions on the Reds. And another multi-club ownership group has entered the fray with Mercury 13 buying a majority stake in Bristol City. But what does it all mean? And can they turn Bristol City into a top flight mainstay?

0:38Rachel: Stay tuned to find out.

0:45Rachel: Great, let's get stuck into the moments of the weekend. No, we won't.

0:50Chloe: because it's a big, big day for someone, isn't it? It's a big day.

0:55Rachel: Someone is turning the big 40.

0:57Chloe: No, I'm not. Happy birthday, Rachel. Every year we're going to have to do this. I'm going to have to be like, I am not 40. I am not 40, please. Sorry. Why are you swinging your arms? Happy birthday, Rachel. I feel like this is meant to be a trigger, but nothing's happening. For the love of fuck, Bruno, come in the door. Are we rolling? This is amazing. Get in the door. I'm just going to sit here and act surprised. I'm going to help him. Oh, what a surprise. Oh, my God. Where is this come from? Oh, my God. It does.

1:27Rachel: I mean, I don't know what it says anymore.

1:28Chloe: It did say happy birthday. It looks like it says happy bitch day, but I'll take that. Happy bitch day to you. I need to blow the match.

1:36Rachel: Happy bitch day to you. Happy bitch day to Rachel O'Sullivan from Girls on the Ball. Happy birthday to you.

1:54Rachel: I'm surprised my old lungs had that in me. That was quite far away. You cannot see the state of this cake. There's two cakes. I picked this up this morning. Thank you so much. Do you know what? That white one there, that is from the same bakery that provided Meghan Markle and Harry's wedding cake.

2:09Chloe: That is amazing news. I just want to say, Finn is looking worryingly up at the sprinklers. Can we just like, maybe just blow the smoke away from the sky because we might have a serious... I'm so glad we record this video now because that was amazing

2:23Rachel: especially all that in between bit

2:25Chloe: where we were like we don't know what's happening but we know what's happening

2:27Rachel: I apologise for the state of those cakes I lime biked here and the potholes in London were not kind were not kind at all that's why it says happy bitch day

2:38Chloe: it's also why I'm double parked with caffeine have you noticed those of you watching I have got two cups of beverages of hot drinks for me for this well you're older now you need more support to keep awake you know the bones warm i should say see i struggle with the

2:51Rachel: dentures oh my lord how's the how's the morning been for you what has what has safe been up to

2:56Chloe: were you woken up with roses and no you know breakfast in bed that kind of thing no she woke me up at six o 'clock in the morning to go and record her podcast oh right uh then came back

3:07Rachel: to bed and was asleep when i left oh she's so romantic isn't it i love that isn't that lovely

3:12Chloe: God, that's just heartwarming. She did take me to Lady Gaga last night, though, so I can't complain. Oh, that's very, very cute. Always for the win, Soph.

3:19Rachel: Yeah, happy birthday from all of us. I'm not 40. Yeah, I mean, you're pushing. I'm getting close to it, let me tell you, but I'm not there yet. It's not, you know, it's not far off.

3:28Chloe: I'm at the age where I just will no longer say what age I am. I get it now. I'll say it every year, so people will know. Yeah, but you're wrong every year. I'm not far off. Yeah, but that's still wrong. That's like saying you hit the ball wide while it wasn't far off. It's still not a goal, is it?

3:41Rachel: so right talking of goals let's get into our moments of the weekend that's a lovely little segue there go on tell me what was your moment of the weekend apart from the fact that you were 36

3:49Chloe: when it started actually it's not football i think you were there too chloe i was the world cup final at twickenham was unbelievable um and it's such a cool like these moments in sport are so rare to witness and i'm taking off so many moments in my life my little bucket list one was to see the like go along now no exactly i gotta start tick them off quicker and they're getting easier as well like less activity but though there's like seeing the olympics live going to wimbledon definitely you know seeing ireland qualify for major tournaments like watching england win a euros in england watching england rugby win a like home nation win a trophy in their home is such a rarity like these these major tournaments don't come around very often and i just thought world rugby the fanfare the fireworks the girl on the freaking guitar

4:38Rachel: before hand unbelievable living not a prayer it's so good and the whole crowd getting into it it was

4:44Chloe: uh yeah really really good fun and it was totally worth the stressful uh you know race across london from the emirates to twickenham oh my god the double header um i mean it was absolutely there

4:55Rachel: were so many people from women's football there like so many people just going to the emirates all over again um i mean a massive massive win a massive congratulations to the red roses 81 000 fans a historic uh world cup and i think i mean massive credit to the team they've been absolutely unbelievable this entire tournament um yeah just classy my dad how much did he like that i saw the photo it was so cute the worst thing about it was and this is this is absolutely embarrassing from my perspective but i've just started to get into rugby like since we've kind of been covering a bit more in the world the world cup's been coming up it's it's something i'm still trying to get my head around but he kept the whistle kept blowing i was like and he kept saying oh like what was that for and i was like you could just make it up shoelaces untied i the scrum collapsed and he was like I don't think that's a scrum they weren't they weren't doing anything

5:39Chloe: dad who works in sport

5:41Rachel: I was like be quiet have your free beer and sit down wish please thank you she blew the whistle because we were a bit tired for a minute and oh we're going again that's it yep 100 % but it was beautiful the activations the day it was just it was just absolutely stunning I thought the royal family would be there and they weren't I thought that was slightly disappointing do you know who was there the Prime Minister of Canada came all the way from Canada to see their team in a World Cup final even though it's far well people do make the effort when women's sport is so amazing to be fair I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure they were at a semi-final just give them that

6:13Chloe: because look some people like them they'll give a shit for it and that's coming from an Irish person by the way

6:17Rachel: but yeah I think they did come up to one of the games that was definitely a big big moment for the weekend so congratulations girls yeah unbelievable and what an incredible summer that has now been with the Lionesses win and the Red Roses I mean UK women's sport is at the absolute pinnacle the man damn cancer the gal damn did

6:32Chloe: 100 % And that sounds great in an Irish accent, let me tell you.

6:36Rachel: I would also say another moment of the weekend for me was the Portsmouth goal, Angela Nixon, WSL 2. Absolute stormer. 100 % like one of the best goals that I've seen this season in the WSL 2. And it could have put any one of them, like Agi Biva Jones, Erin Catherbitt's goal, like all of those, but Angela Nixon was 100 % up there. So a bit of a shout out to the WSL 2ers on that one.

6:58Chloe: Yeah, absolutely. That ABJ goal.

6:59Rachel: But before we get stuck into the Chelsea drama, let's get stuck into the Arsenal weekend because um another disappointing result for Arsenal dropping points for the second week running but this time at home against Aston Villa finishing 1-1 after Lucy Parker's very scrappy 94th minute equaliser I knew that was coming and I had left already and I was like I know there's an equaliser coming it just felt primed for it it felt kind of like they were getting into it so much and there was a lot of passion intensity from Aston Villa to try and get that equaliser back. Like, I love the determination that they had that they could cause a bit of a...

7:36Chloe: What is... Technically, it was a bit of an upset. Absolutely. Beat them 5-2 last time. Of course, they know they've got it in them.

7:40Rachel: But what did you make of the game, Rach? What were your thoughts?

7:44Chloe: Opening kind of 10, 15 minutes, I thought, you know, there was a good intensity about Arsenal as we're used to, like a very good press, very intense press. You know, yes, the goal they scored was from an Aston Villa mistake. That mistake happened because of such an intense and high press. then they just seem to like back off and like I think I said this last season and it was around this time last season they just kind of lacked any teeth like any kind of real ruthlessness intensity yeah and like it's actually something you've kind of become a bit more used to under Renee when she took over they started scoring goals I think she has you know one of the best average goals under a manager than any manager or something something like 3.4 you wouldn't know that with the last couple of games I think, was it one shot on target they had at the United game?

8:31Chloe: Yep. And yeah, I just think they've maybe reverted back a little bit to that trying to score the perfect goal. I said on our pod yesterday, I said it made me think it's like they were in training where they've been told, no, 10 passes before you can shoot. You know, when you do that.

8:45Rachel: I love those games.

8:46Chloe: And I'm like, are they still in that frame of mind? Has someone not told them that like we're not doing that anymore? Because there was just that element of almost like a fear to actually take the shot on. and part of that is down to Aston Villa's defence they made it very difficult

8:59Rachel: we're definitely going to touch on Aston Villa because I don't think this was I mean obviously we're expecting Arsenal going to pick up the win but that's not to discredit Aston Villa and what we anticipated that they could do in this game but I've 100 % got to agree like you look at the quality and the depth of just your attacking line and you think how are none of your players still kind of like they're not firing on all cylinders yet and these are the kind of moments that really matter in terms of like the title contention and kind of you know picking up these points when you're expected to this is the start of the season you've got a fresh squad like you're not facing any injuries you're not you know stuck into all of the other competitions like this is when you should be your freshest like and obviously the confidence that you must have coming off the back of the Champions League but it does feel like a reversion to last season where we saw them you know really struggle for goals obviously Jonas Eideville was in there was loads of kind of tension there was a kind of a bit of a depressive mood in the camp 100 % and then obviously Rene coming in and then you had that massive run of like all these incredible games you know massive unbeaten run they couldn't you couldn't stop them firing so it kind of kind of felt like that's where we kind of left Arsenal and then you come into this season and it feels like we've gone back around again.

10:02Chloe: Maybe they were still tired from the Ballon d 'Or. Do you know what though? I do wonder, like, I don't think they've started the same starting line in any of the four games. And, you know, when you look back at the Manchester United one, in the past, rolling the dice and starting Steiner used to be a surprise. Mark Skinner knew they were going to do that. He spoke about it after the brand game. He was like, I know they're going to try and surprise us and probably starts Dina they did exactly that so part of me is like are they maybe getting the choice of who to start when right is there enough consistency in that starting lineup is there maybe too much you know I know some are saying they aren't they're doing the same subs every time I mean that's not true because they're not playing the same starting line every time I don't think they have played the starting you know front three and and maybe 10 in any of the four games I think they've switched around a lot maybe there's a lack of fluidity there because there's not less consistency I don't know but like yeah you're right the quality of the players there should be creating and making the chances they create much more impactful and much higher quality and so yeah I think it is down to them being losing ruthlessness not having ruthlessness but also I do think it's down to Aston Villa kind of having their number a little bit I thought Anna Patton played really well the defense generally played really well made it really difficult for them.

11:18Chloe: But equally, with that many shots on target, I think they had maybe eight shots on target in total. Six shots on target. You know, you should be getting more than one goal.

11:28Rachel: 100%. And I think the worst thing is that it was the disastrous error, obviously, that created that one goal for Arsenal, with Villa kind of giving the ball away in their own penalty area. Yeah, it was just like, obviously, it's a careless ball. I feel really, really sorry for Missy Bo Kearns. Obviously not intended. And I love the fact that they were trying to play out from the back. But she was limited in who she could pass back to because the Arsenal press was really decent. Obviously, Caldente then sort of intercepting that pass and getting the freedom on goal. But at the same time, it just...

11:55Rachel: There were so many chances that they could have... They were just inches away. There was a mormon back post. Freedom mormon.

12:00Chloe: Sliding in on that back post. Yeah, literally that.

12:02Rachel: And a credit to Sabrina D 'Angelo as well. I think she had a really good game. I think there was a couple of really tasty shots that she also stopped. But I think, yeah, it just didn't feel like they were going to get that goal. I don't know whether it's unluckiness. I don't know whether it's kind of confidence or just kind of losing their heads. but you've got the likes of Kelly Smith behind the scenes teaching you how to score goals. You've done it. We've seen you do it in the season. You know, some of you have just been away scoring goals and doing wonders for England and then you come into the squad and you're like, oh, so frustrating.

12:29Chloe: Is it the Arsenal way I say in inverted commas? Is that what, you know, what is the mindset? What's, how do you bleed that into the players? How do they, you know, they're getting themselves into the positions.

12:41Rachel: I don't think it's René Slagas' fault. Like they're... Really? Everyone seems to want to lay it at her door. I don't think that way at all. I kind of think like, when you look at the Freedom Ornum missed opportunity at the back post, like that's Freedom Ornum wanting to be a split second earlier. Like you can't, you can't teach that. They're getting into the positions. It's that. Like it's kind of a wanting to read the game a little bit better. And I think there's only so much that Renee can do. Like she's already proven what she can do.

13:04Chloe: She was angry post-match as well. I'm not surprised. I've really seen it like that. She was visibly kind of frustrated and normally she's quite calm. It measured, not that she wasn't measured, but she just was visibly kind of like unacceptable, you know, a little bit. Yeah. And I also think like there are teams, most teams generally have taken points at some point from Arsenal. And that kind of, I mean, years ago, people would be worried playing Arsenal. I don't think there's that much kind of fear going into playing against an Arsenal because, you know, teams back themselves now. Tactically, they've shown they can come up against top teams.

13:38Chloe: More often than not, it's about the execution. It's about, you know, key decision making and key moments. and Aston Villa are coming into that game knowing they can get points off Arsenal. Absolutely. So it's just one more thing within their control, their mindset they can manage now because they don't have to have that fear of what if, what if because they know if they stay in the game, especially Aston Villa, and I kind of reject some of the narrative around Aston Villa, their slow start, another season where they haven't won a game in three games. Like bloody hell, if you've watched their games, the first three games they played, Chelsea, Brighton and Arsenal, they had that break last week because their game against Liverpool was postponed understandably but actually the football they've been playing is really nice, they've got quite a young squad now they've brought in some new players who are settling really well Natalya has a very clear way of football that she wants to play, the players have bought into it we were seeing that at the end of last season they came out against Brighton, both teams trying to kind of find their feet a little bit with a relatively fresher squad that was understandable, maybe a bit unlucky not to come out of that game with a point come up against Chelsea and absolutely put it to Chelsea for that a good first half maybe 60 minutes and arguably deserved something out of that game and now they've come and got a point off Arsenal who just won the Champions League so this idea that it's like another slow start I'm just like that's a really unfair assessment I think yes it's the third season in a row where they haven't won a game and they're opening three games but if you actually look back at some of those games I think last season they had Tottenham and maybe Leicester in their opening four and they hadn't picked up a win and yeah maybe you could point to it then and say they should be doing better but actually watch the football they're playing, see the style they're trying to play, see the kind of stress they're putting top teams under and it will come.

15:16Chloe: I think once they get that first win, it will lift them a little bit but I do think there's some really positive signs from Aston Villa.

15:21Rachel: I don't have any concerns about Aston Villa sort of languishing around the relegation zone at all. Like it's so promising and I think, you know, you talked about how upset Rene Slegers looked in the post-match conference and then the camera obviously pans to Natalia Arroyo. Delighted. She has such a beautiful, like, wry smile about like what's just happened. And I think, yeah, there is a bit of a lazy narrative around the fact they've not kind of picked up as many points as you'd be expecting, but they have also faced some tough, tough... What would you be expecting from those first three games from Aston Villa?

15:49Rachel: Literally that. And also, yeah, it's just, I don't think it's fair. I think it's too early days to be making that kind of assessment. And I think when you actually look at how they played in that Arsenal game, like they could have come completely unsettled by that early mistake.

16:02Chloe: Had that Mournem goal gone in? Like it could have been a different game. They stayed in it. 100 % it could have been a complete waterfall.

16:07Rachel: but I think the defence was super super solid I think they created chances I mean that it was the free kick from Linville like that was unbelievable she's got some foot on her

16:16Chloe: that wand the foot

16:17Rachel: the reach that Daphne had to make it was absolutely unbelievable curling that one round the post and then you had Chastity Grant coming close sliding the ball home like literally just seconds off coming across goal and you just think those kind of moments Aston Villa could have walked away with a win on a good day

16:33Chloe: and I'll also say you know they're not kind of overly relying on Rachel Daly which they've done in the past she came off at halftime Kirsty Hansen came on immediate impact she's such a weapon of a player and I think that shows that they've got like a lot more trust in the wider squad as well that it doesn't all fall on Rachel Daly's shoulders so yeah look Ebony Salmon Chasity Grant they're all Lucia Kendall starting as well Missy Bo Kearns is a youngster and took the armband when Daly went off there's a lot of young players in there with a lot of trust and they're really stepping up and showing what they can do and I think yeah if you're an Aston Villa fan you should be excited I think by what you're seeing I think it's

17:09Rachel: a real credit to Aston Villa they managed to get a point out of that game I mean there was a dedication there to kind of getting it over the line the longer that game went on you were like you could see it happening and Lucy Parker then sort of converting that is a very scrappy chance but it was just it was just determined more than anything else obviously picking up the player of

17:25Chloe: the match you've got some thoughts on this right not that I just go on go lay out it was the same same thing happened in Sky I think I was watching the I was watching the Manchester United game back and at 54 minutes Sky were putting up three players for people to vote on player of the match I was like we have just under a half of the match left I appreciate it's 2-0 but like touch early well that and also like I want well maybe personally I would like the co-coms or the commentator to kind of have a say the ex-player maybe the expert to pick a player of the match tell me why you think they're a player of the match sometimes you don't you don't appreciate what players do in matches and a commentator can kind of a co-coms can explain what they've done off the ball, the impact they've had, etc.

18:06Chloe: And I think that's a really bit of valuable insight. I think ask people to vote on 50 minutes, who player of the match is, and then you've just chosen the three players. It then ends up being a little bit of a popularity contest. I think Lucy Parker came on on like the 70th minute. I appreciate she got the equaliser, but like... Impactful. True, but is that what you give? I don't know. But we've seen it before when it's been like 80 minutes and someone comes up. It wasn't even a winner, it was an equaliser as well. You're getting a bee in your bonnet about this one. Congratulations to Lucy Parker.

18:33Chloe: Maybe nobody had like the most amazing game. So you pick the person who made that game interesting, which was Lucy Parker, I suppose. I think, yeah.

18:41Rachel: I mean, obviously like she did make a massive impact coming on. I do think there were better people who had kind of had a more consistent run in the game, but she got the draw.

18:50Chloe: Do you think they should be voted for by fans? Like on BBC, you can vote who you think player of the matches or do you think it should be done by the commentator co-com?

19:00Rachel: I think it should be fans.

19:01Chloe: why because then it's not always about the football then it's about the engagement and entertainment and kind of like does that not kind of diminish it a bit then but you go you go to the

19:10Rachel: pundits anyway for like their analysis on who they think has had a really good game but that's

19:14Chloe: normally who awards it that's who you get the player of the match from as opposed to but football is for the fans it is but is it not about the football rather than who your favorite i don't

19:21Rachel: want to fall out on your birthday all right how do we think this result affects arsenal's title chances we've got a really good question in from discovering underscore et on instagram what would you tell arsenal to change to deliver a better performance and this comes in the context of people having these questions around their you know the title contention obviously last season chelsea dropped six points across 22 games arsenal have already dropped four points after four games arsenal gonna host chelsea on november 8th but before that they travel to man city this saturday another massive, massive test for them.

19:54Rachel: But yeah, I mean, what do they do to kind of get themselves back in the game for the end of the season?

20:00Chloe: Well, I will say last season, they had played Chelsea, Tottenham, Brighton and Leicester and they had two points. Yes. Right. So, you know, and everyone said the season was over and to be fair, it bloody was, it turned out. There was, you know, maybe opportunities. In the end, Chelsea didn't drop enough points. They wouldn't have really been able to catch them. But, you know, when you compare it to last season, it was an awful lot worse last season, I would argue. Look, I think they need to get back to the kind of free-flowing, confident football. The one thing I'd say is shoot, like forget this pretty goal.

20:35Chloe: Just put in the back of net, have a pop, have a shot. If the keeper parries it, someone's there to put it home. It doesn't always have to be a pretty goal. It doesn't matter. Fans aren't going to remember how nice the goals were. they're going to remember whether you won and got three points and I think yeah I don't know what that stress is in the team it's something we've seen before so whether that's something that's going to continue or they're going to be able to shake off earlier I don't know but it's not like it's an easy game next at the weekend so look it's not we don't need to be super super pessimistic

21:04Rachel: we're four games into the WSL they're still in fifth spot with eight points they're only four points clear of Chelsea let's not you know get us get get too ahead of ourselves that you know title races is slowly slipping from their grasp like this is a very long season with a lot to happen and you kind of look at you know man united yes they're doing super super well but the squad depth they have is super super low they're going to be entering into the champions league you know going into those games as well that's not going to be helpful so

21:30Chloe: let's let's just see how it unfolds temper expected yeah i just think for sure i think what worries people is when you talk about the difference between an arsenal and a chelsea a chelsea would have won that game even if they're not playing well and i think that's maybe where Arsenal need to be more ruthless in those opportunities is that even when you're not playing well it's grinding out the win and I think we'd seen that sometimes from Arsenal sometimes when they're not playing well you think back to that West Ham game last season they were 3-0 down they won 4-3 like they have it in them but it's not it doesn't feel like it's the natural feeling within them whereas I feel like with Chelsea the game is never over doesn't matter how badly they're playing the game is never over there's still time on the clock there's still time to score a goal and I just feel like that needs to be Arsenal's mentality a bit more

22:11Rachel: so bloody jammy just to finish off I obviously my ego take a little bit of battering over the last couple of weeks we've been talking about this multi-club fan fandom and I wanted to kind of back up some of the things that we were saying about that and I wanted to use the platform since I've got it she's a baller and have a look at like what the fans were really saying about it use your platform

22:33Chloe: abuse your platform yeah yeah

22:34Rachel: yeah same thing yeah yeah 100 % but I mean I'm the boss so I can do what I want let's just have a look at some of the results

22:40Jacqui Oatley: it's true

22:41Rachel: yeah I mean this backfired like heavily so i asked i went out to the audience and i said do you support more than one's football uh one women's football club in a league so we got in 3 500 votes um well done and i would say 2 400 of those said no i'm completely loyal to my club so that's 66 percent i thought

23:00Chloe: you were gonna tell me i was wrong no no no why did you bring this up you have the opportunity to

23:04Rachel: not no no but i just want to be fair that i did it and also you know i'm not going to just show you the results when it works my way. What I will say, we did a little bit more kind of like qualitative digging on like if you support more than one club, right, why do you support more than one club? And we've got some really nice answers in because I just support women because I love Chelsea but also Frank Kirby. My favourite players are on different teams because I don't actually care who wins. I just like watching a good game and I like the players. So like there's that aspect to it. So yeah, I didn't you know, what I felt about the women's football fandom didn't come true but it doesn't matter because there was some really lovely responses.

23:41Chloe: I think there are different types of fans out there and we shouldn't judge why fans are fans. I think if you're here watching the game with supporting Arsenal, Man United and London City. There is for you. I 100 % reject you doing it, but anybody else is absolutely fine. By like season seven of Upfront, I'll just support the entire WSL. All of the teams. You'll just have like a patchwork quilt of a shirt from every team.

24:01Rachel: Ooh, old ones. Shots fired.

24:20Rachel: All right, a difficult, difficult week for Liverpool. Obviously, a hugely emotional week for the club, the team, the players and the fans after the news of Matt Beard's death. Their game against Aston Villa last weekend was postponed, but they returned to the pitch in midweek for the League Cup, where they beat Sunderland 5-0. Matt Beard's wife and mum were in the stands for this game. The home fans sang his name in the 13th and 14th minutes. Yeah, just before the game, they have this really lovely rendition of You'll Never Walk Alone, which has never been more significant and more poignant. You can see how much it impacted the fans.

24:52Rachel: Lots and lots of tears around the stadium. And obviously very emotional for the players to go on and walk onto the pitch and go into this game, given the context.

25:01Chloe: Yeah, it was a difficult weekend for them. There were some lovely tributes paid. They had a nice piece with Rachel Laws beforehand speaking about Matt. Gemma Bonner did the same. She made her 200th appearance and posted about the fact that he'd given her, I think, her first appearance in the WSL. So a lot for them to be dealing with. I also want to take the opportunity to call out the way that the inquest into Matt Beard's death was handled by some of the media, particularly the BBC, who I think we would expect an awful lot better from. and the manner in which they sent out the news of that inquest and you know the headline they used the fact that they thought it appropriate to send a push notification to people so so insensitive and shameful and I feel like an organization like that should absolutely know better you know there's some outlets that perhaps we'd expect that click-baity approach to something so sensitive that requires so much empathy and sensitive handling and there's some organizations that you know that's not something they consider particularly important but I would expect the BBC to be an awful lot better at handling something like that because that is an incredibly sensitive discussion and I thought it was handled absolutely appallingly so I just wanted to take the opportunity to say that because lessons need to be learned from that absolutely but no you're right an emotional weekend I think it's so nice that Matt's wife and mum were able to be in the stands for that game and feel the support and the love from the fans and yeah like and it's a hard one to discuss because obviously a difficult time for Liverpool but I think the issues we're discussing were issues that we were concerned with at the beginning of the season that perhaps we saw in the first couple of games and are continuing maybe to see and I think you know there's an element of having a new manager Gareth Taylor coming in relatively late in the season and perhaps not being able to to have more of a say in the squad if you like we had concerns about the lack of movement in the window and that is still a concern I think that that's contributing perhaps to some of the problems you know players that were so important last season maybe not being replaced and we're seeing the impact of that and you're also looking at a team trying to play a Gareth Taylor style of football and I guess needing more of his input in terms of players to allow them to do that.

27:32Chloe: And I think perhaps the January window is going to be a very important time for them. I think having, you know, there's games they've had quite a bit of possession and that's resulted in nothing. That will be incredibly frustrating. A different situation coming up against Manchester United, a team who they've had some pretty decent results against and yet couldn't really get much of a foothold, particularly in the first half. I do think a lot of that is down to how Manchester United started. I know Mark Skinner called it electric. I'd say maybe the first half was electric. I think by the second half, they'd maybe put in the power-saving bulbs.

28:06Rachel: Do you know what I mean? A bit of stretch, Mark.

28:07Chloe: Yeah, I think they were like, let's protect the environment a bit here, put on them dimmers, and we'll take the electricity out of it a little bit. But also understandable when they've got a number of games to be managing. So, yeah, a little bit of both. a little bit of the struggles we expected from Liverpool, but also equally the pressure from Manchester United and the way that they started contributed to that as well, I think.

28:30Rachel: 100%. And I think obviously this is the third game of the season with the 2-0 defeat. I think you're completely right in terms of the context behind this game. I think, you know, we're obviously critiquing Liverpool, but we do understand that it has been very difficult circumstances. So what we're saying is very much, you know, taking that into account. But those kind of problems did exist at the start of the season. And it doesn't feel like there's sort of much positivity in terms of like takeaway points from this game that we can kind of look at to go forwards. And you mentioned their rates sort of in terms of the struggles that they have had with Man United.

29:03Rachel: I mean, Liverpool has won three of the last four WSL games against Man United. Only Chelsea have beaten them more. So this could be a game. It kind of felt like a game of potential because of their record against them. But I'm going to start with a little bit of positivity. So there was a couple of chances. So Kerry Holland's chance, I thought she was probably the best player for me. I think there was an energy and there was a, it felt a bit flat at points in the game. And I think Kerry really tried to up the tempo of what was happening. Driving down that right wing, cutting in and creating that really good opportunity just before half time.

29:32Rachel: Great reaction save from Fallon Tullis-Joyce. My God, tipping that onto the poster. Pretty much point blank reactions. But yeah, I think also Mia Enderby coming on. I thought she had a particularly good game. yeah coming in kind of late in the day but added a completely different dynamic to the game again kind of taking the game to United really good 1v1 effort with Fallon Tullis-Joyce I think she did really really well there but yeah Mia Renderby kind of like it was a good save like an outstretched save but it just didn't challenge Fallon enough but I think those are the two kind of standout moments for me there wasn't a lot of really sort of positivity that I saw Liverpool even kind of getting near to the ball

30:08Chloe: I mean my United team said

30:10Rachel: yeah definitely better but I think there was a, the ball seemed to be won in the midfield section. Like there didn't seem to be much in the way of Liverpool. They were chasing shadows, I think, for a lot of the game. And it felt like there was really good link up play between Jess Park, Miyazawa and Elatoon. I felt like Liverpool were just tiring themselves out by trying to chase the ball, not being in the right positions and just kind of, they were just leaving spaces. Like the defence was so narrow, like the midfield wasn't getting anywhere near the ball. Like Man United were able to create chances on the wings.

30:37Rachel: It just, it didn't feel like there was anything. I was like, get into the game, get a foothold, get get stuck in but that never that never came well i think first half absolutely manchester united

30:46Chloe: dominated i think jess park and ziggy otty have looked unbelievable in a manchester united shirt i thought they've settled in so well immediately impacting and um contributing and helping that squad i think which is great to see me as our goal incredible unbelievable yeah absolute world

31:03Rachel: it was such a difficult one to hit as well it kind of hit like just between like a boot and a shin pad and i was like my god like how you taking that first time is unreal um yeah so

31:11Chloe: So I thought first half, absolutely, you know, United had 69 % possessions, 1.67 XG, three shots on target from 10 total shots. Liverpool had no shots on target. Second half, I do think Liverpool were more in it. They created six shots to Manchester United's two. They had one on target to Manchester United's nil. So I do think they improved in the second half. I think some of those subs helped. But I think, and this is funny, because we look back at that Arsenal game, for example, where they dropped off. United had kind of already put the game a little bit out of reach do you know what I mean which was important for them so it almost not that they would have intentionally done that but it almost allowed for that little bit of a dip because they'd gotten that second goal at an absolute like you know killer time killer time like to get it because Liverpool had had a corner they'd been up Manchester United's end in injury time and yet Manchester United managed to get that goal just before half time and suddenly it's a different team talk suddenly your heads are in a slightly different place and that mountain just looks that little bit more difficult to climb and for United it's just then

32:14Rachel: put it a little bit out of reach that was what was so interesting about the the Kerry Holland opportunity because I was thinking if she'd have scored that I don't know like whether Liverpool would would have then taken that as a positive and kind of like stepped their game up like it didn't even feel like once they got a goal that they'd then go on and like build confidence and get more it kind of just felt a bit flat but like I think they did better in the second one one and then it's a completely different game yeah they did have opportunities because Man United I think were very very lucky I mean given another opposition given another top four opposition I think they would have been looking at maybe a 3-2 turnaround like I just don't think Liverpool were able to convert their chances and and they were a little bit lucky on occasion like staying at 2-0 is a shaky one like all of a sudden Mierendaby converts that chance and you're 2-1

32:54Chloe: and you've to a degree but then you have to factor in that United would react to that situation as well um and I think as the longer the game went on with Liverpool not getting back into it you know that impact who are we going to substitute do we need to substitute this person are we comfortable are we feeling like we're going to keep them out ultimately one shot on target in the second half for Liverpool so I mean I also want to shout out May Letizier she made her 70th consecutive appearance for Manchester United in the WSL at the weekend that's a joint highest consecutive run in a single team she I think Aileen Whelan is the other one who did it for Brighton I think if I'm right but 70 consecutive starts for Manchester United in the WSL is absolutely incredible and she is so reliable consistently performs um you know never really giving less than eight out of ten in matches you know what I mean you've got that kind of reliable consistent performer and a very good young captain and I just thought like when I saw that stat I had to kind of refresh my page to be like seven zero seventy that's ridiculous and she's such a young player still so hats off to her as well because you know very key player in that back line and I just think there's a nice synergy within the team they've good relationships with each other you can see that on the pitch and um you know this is another good test for them now they've got um Champions League coming up not during the week but the following week they've got Chelsea at the weekend then a Champions League game it all kind of kicks off now for them and and it's going to be a really good experience for them to to have to play these big games back to back and that's when you're really going to see how impactful and how well the squad can do managing managing that.

34:28Rachel: I mean, you were talking there about Marla Tizia's youth. I think we forget that she's 23 years old.

34:33Chloe: 70 consecutive games. 23 years old.

34:35Rachel: When did she start? When she was six? Like, I don't understand. Just to call out one of our producers as well. Last week, me and Rachel had a massive shock because Bruno said that him and his girlfriend were celebrating a 50th anniversary and I was like, how does that even work? And he said, well, they're both 25 and at that point, I wanted to throw myself out the fucking window. We nearly left the pod

34:51Chloe: but we had like another second. But here we are,

34:52Rachel: still showing up. But like you said, I mean, Man United host Chelsea on Friday night. So that's going to be another big, big test for them. I'm super, super excited about that. Super excited. I love a game under the Friday night lights anyway. But yeah, I think this is going to be a really tasty fixture. Just before we go, we do have a question in from Old Jemina on Instagram. They said, what are Liverpool missing? Are we waiting for the January transfer window? Do they need to gel a little bit sooner than that?

35:17Chloe: Yeah, it's a difficult one because you can't really afford to just wait for the January transfer window. How far behind are you going to be? Christ, yeah. so you know there's an element of seeing what fixtures are coming up you know games that you absolutely need to be getting points out of and that's difficult in this league now there's no kind of guaranteed games I know it sounds cliche but it is true they need to turn some of these these games where they're dominating possession and you know touches in the opponent's box into actual goals and into results and into points yes the January transfer window is going to be massive for them but it's just that balance of like how far behind will you be by the time you get to January?

35:53Chloe: That's the question.

35:54Rachel: Coming up after this, we discuss Bristol City being taken over by Mercury 13.

36:07Rachel: Huge, huge news in the WSL 2 earlier this month. Mercury 13 acquiring a majority stake in Bristol City. For those of you who don't know, get to know, Mercury 13 are a multi-club ownership group who have promised to invest$100 million in teams across Europe and South America over the next five years. They already own Como Women over in Syria, and they've been looking for a club in the English game for a while now. I remember speaking to Victoire, probably start of this year, and she was saying that there was sort of rumblings about who they were going to take over. She wouldn't tell me who. I was very, very excited to kind of see what that club would look like.

36:45Rachel: You remember they did try and have a bit of a takeover opportunity with Lewis, but that fell through in 2023. Bristol City have been owned by the Lansdowne family for over a decade. They achieved quite a fair bit as a club, having reached two FA Cup finals in 2011 and 2013, and as one of the founding members of the WSL.

37:05Chloe: I watched Bristol against Barca. Back then it was Bristol v Barca. Bristol Academy. It's a fixture. Bristol, I'm pretty sure they beat Barca. Like, way back when we started Girls in the Ball, they were the ones up the top, you know, challenging Arsenal. I remember, I'll never forget a game that Arsenal were 2-0 down against Bristol and they brought on Kelly Smith at halftime and she scored a hat-trick. Do you know what I mean? Like, they bloody challenged. Do you know what I mean? And yeah, they're OGs in the game. And it doesn't really surprise me that that's where Mercury 13 has gone because I feel like particularly now as Bristol City, they've always been ones that are willing to try things and maybe do things a little bit outside the box.

37:43Chloe: And, you know, some of the things that Victoire touched on, She did an interview on the Guardian Women's Football Weekly podcast last week. Shout out to Sophie for getting that interview. A great interview. She was very, very interesting kind of reasons why she touched on, you know, their Robbins High Performance Centre. You know how important that is. The fact they've got that academy. You know, we see so many young players coming through from Bristol. And also the fact that she feels that the audience in that part of the country is untapped. And I agree. Like I don't think, you know, there are teams maybe not in the top division over there.

38:18Chloe: And I think they're really keen to try and tap into that. And I think, you know, it obviously throws up all these questions about multi-club ownership again and what happens in five years time if Como and Bristol are both in the Champions League and how that's going to work. And I totally agree. We voiced our kind of concerns around them before. but equally I think that's on the job of the people who manage those competitions to address now and not wait until that situation arises and then suddenly they've tried to figure things out like we can see that there's potential for this happening so if things need to change change them put in rules whatever that might be but I don't think you can then blame these investors for only multiple clubs if you can do that you know the rules need to be changed to address it I think

39:01Rachel: that's going to trigger a relook at whether the women's football game comes under the independent regulator like when the premier league had that um i can't remember when the discussions were was it last year last summer um it was decided that women's football wouldn't be a part of that now i think yeah literally but these three independent investors now have come into the top two tiers of women's football and you are going to see this happening i mean loads of people are asking questions when um daniel van der donk was sort of moved between the london city and that people are starting to kind of now question okay well what happens when you've got these multi-million pound you know owners who can come in by players like what's happened look at the sort of the sustainability of clubs at the profitability of clubs like yeah it's gonna throw up all these questions and i think you're completely right like get ahead of it before it becomes a problem and then all of a sudden you're having to put in place like fines and kind of like bans or you're getting

39:49Chloe: dropped out of competitions or who gets to stay who gets to go when these role bills start running

39:53Rachel: up which like women's game just doesn't have like it's just we can see it's it's potentially going

39:58Chloe: to happen so as i said reactive rather than proactive rather than reactive and what i liked was she was asked you know from a footballing perspective why england why is it here she wanted to come i loved her answer she said she her favorite thing about women's football in england was its resilience and she said when you think about the history of women's football here and what it's gone through it is the ultimate comeback it is a comeback of all comebacks which i loved you know the fact that it's been banned for 50 years and now it's one of the leading federations and countries when it comes to women's football and i just thought that was such a cool kind of metaphor if you like it's comeback we all have a comeback in football right so um yeah i think she's very genuine in terms of her passion for women's football i think we've spoken about being willing to be open to new ways of doing things and seeing how it works we don't know how it's going to work we don't know how it's going to play out these things take time um but you've got a company willing to invest a lot of money in women's football in all aspects of women's football in the resources she's touched on the fact that everywhere in women's football is under resourced um and this is an opportunity to put more resources and all into all of those areas so i'm excited to see what that could mean for bristol city well maybe it's quite apt then that

41:13Rachel: victoire has chosen you know the comeback of all comebacks you look at bristol city yo-yoing between the WSL and WSL 2 this investment you look at the players that they could potentially now bring in to kind of bolster the squad and kind of take them back up into the WSL 1 obviously not having the best start at the weekend losing uh to to Nostrum Forest's Forest 2-1 but they do have Charlotte Healy who's been an absolute asset she was incredible at United a big part of their success but what I can't work out with Mercury 13 is like how they're going to approach Bristol city as an entity as a brand i mean when you look at what they did with um fc como i mean they launched an ai designed fashion line last week they are unashamedly kind of commercial in the way they operate obviously victoire you know she is if you've ever been in a room with victoire you can feel her presence as soon as she comes in and you feel underdressed around yeah immediately underdressed i feel like there was a party that they did to kind of celebrate their partnership with the zone and i think it was in the start of the year maybe even before christmas and they had it at soho house and there was italian cured meats all across one section italian prosecco everyone had to wear either black or white there was loads of botanicals it was like you felt like

42:22Chloe: you were part of an exclusive club i got invited to a mercury 13 lake como event in london uh this summer and i was in lake como and i couldn't know that's unfortunate that's really unfortunate

42:34Rachel: why are you there and not here that doesn't make any sense but i think like that's the kind of like ethos that she wants to kind of create around fc como i mean she wanted to kind of pitch it as a louis vuitton moe hennessy kind of women's football club which i i rate the ingenuity of trying to create this kind of fashion brand around the club and that they've done these lovely collaborations with mari and you see the players like doing you know like fashion related things it's like very kind of high-end very premium what i do kind of struggle with is like whether that is slightly too niche as a concept to kind of take to bristol city i mean i don't see

43:09Chloe: her taking that concept it would be quite funny i i can understand i actually applaud that ingenuity you're in lake como you're in italy they're known for their fashion it's a pricey premium a premium part of yeah so i can understand i don't foresee that being translated over to bristol city they've got thatchers there right thatchers you've got like quite a cool um you know demographic living in bristol they're a very sport loving town they've got a number of clubs and sports that they really tap into and i'll be intrigued to see how they approach that because i do think

43:42Rachel: they'll approach it's given though like barber they love their attachers they do yeah absolutely given like barber and like i don't know like weekends with like roast dinners and gorgeous red wine and like it's giving like premium like fireplaces to the games you know like they do at

43:59Chloe: ashton gate a lot is they have those food stalls and stuff outside with the local food and all that kind of stuff they'll tap into that there's loads homegrown sausages she's so right about it being untapped and it could be a really interesting project that's what i'm most excited about the

44:13Rachel: kind of like the you're just going to go there for the thatchers and the food aren't you i what i will say is when i've played at bristol city they have one of the best burger fans that i've ever ever come across like and the worst thing is is that when you're obviously playing you're very much focused on the game but at the same time you walk out of the um the changing rooms and you're immediately hit by the burger van before you get to the pitch and that that was really tough for me well now they're at Ashton Gate my career all I wanted was to lie down and have a burger

44:38Chloe: and now at Ashton Gate you're kind of surrounded by all of that loveliness when you're going in

44:42Rachel: you can just literally smell it but we will wait and see I'm really really excited to see what they do and also yeah the January transfer window is going to be a big one for them I'm interested to see if Mercury 13 put their hands in their pocket to the same extent that Michelle Kang has I feel like these independent clubs are going to there's like a battle of independent clubs at the moment and seeing what they're all going to do but really really exciting and love the fact there's some new concepts starting in both leagues before we finish we just want to draw attention to some of the links in the description of today's podcast since Matt Beard's death Jackie Oatley has started a fundraiser to support Matt's family.

45:17Rachel: It had only just started when we recorded last week, so we wanted to draw attention to it on air today. All of our thoughts are with Matt's family and friends, and if you've been affected by the news, then please visit mind.org.uk. Thank you so much for listening to Upfront, and we will see you next week.

45:44Rachel: Upfront is a stack production and part of the Acast Creator Network.