At The Match: Inside the NSL Final

0:17all right so touchdown toronto um given we both went out to the very first game of the northern Super League back in April it seemed only right that we closed the circle and came back for the final which is in Toronto this time and is conveniently against AFC Toronto versus Vancouver Rise so the team we saw first and then the the city that we're in it's kind of worked out perfectly hasn't it? Yeah and also I guess to have the home home fans I guess in Toronto for the final really really good for attendances and and stuff like that you hope but yes it's been a bit full circle for us it's been very it was very special to be there at BC place back in April obviously I lived in Vancouver for a bit so have a few soft spots for them so to get them to see them play in a final is really really cool and a reminder for you listening this is at the moment a six team league and they play every team five times is that right yep that's right and they've basically got like for half of the teams they face they'll have two home matches and three away games and then for the other half of the team or i know you can't have five but you get my drift you've got three home matches and two away games that's kind of how they've worked it out yeah it's a bit complicated at the moment because it is such a small league when you have six teams if you only played each other twice you'd be over in in two months so um they're trying to to span it out i guess and get more football in especially in this first season and really get people and clubs and players up to speed so that's crucial as the league goes on they will expand it over the years and to try and get more teams involved spread more across Canada it's in five provinces at the moment but they'll want to get the spread across Canada a bit more and try and involve the whole country as they try and grow this domestic professional league yeah because not only is it probably boring playing the same team five times but it's a huge amount of travel very frequently right and it's did you say five provinces involved in this one i think so yes if my math is correct it's five provinces it's stretching from east to west so you've got halifax which is in the east um and then vancouver in the west with calgary as well so and then everyone like the other three in between you know in this country in in england when we talk about how you know loading and travel and recovery and uh you're talking about maybe a two hour, three hour bus ride at the most.

2:48Yeah, what these players have to do to recover is quite something from the travel. Well, it is similar to the NWSL, this league, in that there's a regular league and then a playoff. There's playoffs for the top four, which are essentially two-legged semifinals. And last weekend, we had both Vancouver and Toronto playing Montreal and Ottawa, respectively. Am I right in saying that? Eventually, because one of the games was actually postponed due to a big dumping of snow, which is kelpipries in Canada when you're playing in November. But they did manage to get those semifinals done and dusted just about in time for the final.

3:25Yeah, Toronto got past Montreal pretty easily, I think. Vancouver were definitely tested against Ottawa. They were actually on the verge of going out until like the 84th minute in the second leg. And then Holly Ward popped up and scored in that minute. And then it went to extra time. It went to penalties. the keeper Morgan McClassen made two saves in the penalty shootout to get them through. So they really took the scenic route, as it were, to the final. Yes, and we will give our listeners a little bit more of an insight into how these two teams kind of fared in the league getting to the final, which I guess will give us a bit of an insight into how we expect this final to ultimately go.

4:01But before we do that, we are here the day before the final, and we are about to head off to a youth soccer clinic that is taking place just down the road from BMO Field. Is that what they're calling it? BMO Field? I kept calling it BMO Stadium. And what's super cool is they get to spend the morning with Christine Sinclair, Diana Matheson and Erin McLeod. They're going to host this clinic. Obviously, there will be coaches there as well. But there's going to be drills and skill stations and group instructions, all for girls from local teams, which is super cool. and if we're very lucky we will get to chat to those three absolute legends of the game so I'm really looking forward to that one.

4:46First up I spoke with perhaps the most famous player in the history of Canadian soccer Christine Sinclair. She played a major part in founding the league along with Diana Matheson so I wanted to ask her first of all to sum things up. it's just been unbelievable I remember talking to Dee when she first had this crazy idea and I thought she was out of her mind but if anyone was going to do it was going to be her I mean as former national team players we've waited our entire careers for this I think it's fitting I never got to play at home but man how a year can change everything and the league has been a huge success obviously hopefully Vancouver wins tomorrow but either way I mean it's been a massive success this first year.

5:37When we talk about legacy and it's been talked about a lot about you you've left a massive legacy in this game you're continuing that on now like could you imagine back when you first started kicking a ball for Canada that you'd be here now in the professional league you know all of these kids coming out wanting to do what you guys do and having the opportunity to do that? Absolutely not you know when I first joined the national team I hardly knew there was a national team and no one really cared what we did or how we did and obviously over the you know the past 12 years things have changed and the national team's become a you know power but yeah at the last world cup not having a domestic league I think it was Canada and Haiti and yeah D set out to change it and the future is so bright for this country and And you can already see on the national team players that have thrived here in the NSL getting a shot in camps.

6:34They wouldn't have had that if it wasn't for this league. So you're already seeing the pipeline. And now these kids will make professional teams, will make the national team by design, not by chance. And, you know, covering this from outside of Canada or based over in the UK, and one thing that's really come from this league is the importance that you've put on, you know, player welfare, pay there's so many areas that you've thought about before the league started rather than trying to do it when the league is happening how important was that for you because it feels like that's going to be really integral to the success of this league yeah i think that's one of the benefits you have of having uh you know retired players uh building this thing and you know dealing with contracts and i mean d and i we both have gone through contract negotiations with our federation in the nwsl and we we had that history knowing what as players what needs to be in contracts these players need to be taken care of obviously we'd all love to see the pay higher and that will obviously will build towards that but just fundamental rights and basic needs that these players need and deserve were there right from the get-go and it yeah we want we want to attract some of the world's best talent and the players need to be treated correctly to do that.

7:55Next up, I spoke to one of Christine's teammates and another major figure in the league, Erin McLeod. Yeah, I'm thrilled to be part of it. I feel so blessed that I was able to play in this league. I'm so inspired by Diana Matheson and all the work that she has done and the sleepless nights and the sweat and the tears to make this a possibility. and then to be at a community practice like this, you know, with one of our big funders, Canadian Tire, and seeing the impact that the league is having on the next generation, which is really what it's all about. Yeah, it must be pretty special to kind of see this now.

8:30You look back at your career and what, did you imagine this? You know, you've got a league, a professional league, you've got kids now playing these massive events. Like, this must have been kind of the goal, the dream while you were playing, right? Oh, absolutely. I always tell people the reason I had a mullet at the age of five was because all of my sporting heroes were hockey players, male hockey players, right? Because that didn't exist. There was no visibility at all for women or non-binary people at all. And then for me, when I saw Elizabeth Manley in 1988, like, perform for Canada in the Calgary Winter Olympics, that was the moment, like, I was like, I want to go to the Olympics.

9:10I knew my future that I had seen in my head was possible. And I think this will be the same when you're playing week in, week out and able to attend the games. Those dreams become reachable and the power in that is endless. So perhaps we're going to see some of these kids playing this league, playing for Canada. I hope so, yeah. Like a serious time maybe? Well, absolutely. And we've got players like Kaylee Hunter. You've got Mithapula also for Vancouver. They are 17. They're 17 years old. So they are actually not that much older than these little ones. And we're blessed to have them in our league.

9:43And I cannot wait to see the sky's the limit for those players. Finally, I managed to catch up with Diana Matheson, the woman who first came up with the NSL. She was so proud, but also all business. Have you had time to sit back and reflect on how the season has gone? Has it exceeded your expectations? Yes and no. I would say where we're ending year one is exactly where we wanted to be. You know, we measure ourselves against the other women's pro leagues in the world and we're ending the year with the fourth highest attendance in the world. Had$30 million in revenue week-wide which pushed us about eight, so really happy with those.

10:18That said, we had high expectations, right? We knew we were building from scratch and from nothing, but in Canada where we have one of the best countries in the world that sports sport, sports women's sport, highest participation rates out there in putting girls in sport. So, yeah, we set the bar high, but I say we've met it in year one, and we're really happy with that's gone. I asked Christine about legacy, about, you know, former players leaving a legacy, and you're very much doing that in Canada, but not just for young girls wanting to play who are seeing here today, but a lot of them have touched on the jobs that are created in and around the teams, you know, whether it's broadcast, media, physio, you know, that legacy you're leaving is so far-reaching.

10:57You must be really pleased about that. Yeah, that was part of the goal, right? It was, you know, from my personal experience, our pathway in sport used to be we would leave Canada after high school, go down through a U.S. university, go play pro abroad. For me, that was 17 years I was away. You move home only when you retire. But then when I moved home, I looked around again. And again, my generation of players was having to leave the country again. And they were all becoming like world class GMs or coaches or chiropractors or commentators. And it was, it just seemed like such a shame that we were exporting 100 % of our world-class soccer talent both on the field and around it.

11:35And I will add too, we have world-class sport business people here in Canada. We operate in that North American sport economy and we're very good at the business of sport in Canada. So the impact was always, the planned impact was always much more than just the players on the field. It was the entire industry and economy that surrounds it. Especially right now in Canada, right? like we want a nation build we want to invest in canada and this is creating you know 2 000 jobs from day one in communities across the country that's what it's about and christine touched on you know the fact you've got x players involved and it means you're thinking about everything in and around the game nutrition you know physio strength conditioning pay everything like that and you've had the opportunity to think about that from the get-go from the big building of the league if you like so i guess a lot of other people looking to set up a league can learn from you but did you learn from any leagues around the world?

12:25Was there anything you kind of little bits you took from leagues around the world? Yeah for sure we took a lot from leagues we had played in. It was a different era in women's pro soccer. I'd say a lot of the inspiration from what we tried to do in year one was based on what not to do in what we saw in other leagues in the past where they just weren't treated like a business, they weren't invested in, they weren't marketed in, they weren't put on TV and then people were like see no one watches women's sports. There's a lot around just treat it like a business and on the player side, you know, myself, we came up through the women's national team where we were always fighting for player rights.

12:59I was around when the NWSL players negotiated their first CBA. That took seven years. So we took a lot of those things we were fighting for and just built them into this league as best we could from benefits to guaranteed contracts, to data rights, to maternity. We built out a player committee right away that we want to help us inform, inform how the league grows. So that was that was built in as a feature in audubon coming up after the break we head to the final

13:31i can't believe you actually just stood and chatted with christine sinclair yes obviously erin mccloud diana matheson like unbelievable but for me christine sinclair the ultimate goat she is the goat isn't she and she's so like chill she's just like the most normal person softly spoken and you're just stood there next to you're getting to ask well me getting to ask questions about football in Canada and also just for them as former players to be able to and I said this to them like this concept of legacy to be able to like provide what they didn't have um it's pretty damn cool it is and I think it's so vital as well that someone's stepped up or a group of them well Diane has stepped up but also the rest of them to really take on that responsibility and that mantle of leading the way in terms of developing a domestic league um it was christine sinclair wasn't it that said that two two teams at the last world cup didn't have a domestic league canada and haiti and so that kind of tells you the story of how important it is in terms of developing pathways you know just to see the excitement in that bubble that we were in um around not only having you know those three there but i think it's just you know it's it's about the future and that's they've always said that that's it's about the future generations you know being able to make Canada a really stronghold of women's football and have kind of prosperity in that area the one sentence I didn't expect to say uh while I was there was a goat broke my stand um not Christine Sinclair not that goat an actual uh goat mascot who was about eight foot tall and all the mascots kind of came careering towards the the few media that were there and unfortunately its hooves were so big and its head was so big that I don't think it could actually see about a meter in front of itself and it just stood and snapped uh my stand and then tried to bend down and pick it up which obviously was like you know t-rex arms almost you know trying to i don't know how the goat was expecting to do that i was almost expecting it to fall on its head at that point top heavy yeah so speaking to multiple goats it was pretty cool um but you know never mind that on the field quite exciting um i guess slightly different routes to the final for both of these teams, which you touched on.

15:44You touched on kind of their semi-final performances, but just generally Toronto kind of very much stormed to the top of the table in this league. And I would say are probably favourites to win, like Christian Sinclair's Vancouver fan, obviously sounded a little bit nervous about the prospect of facing Toronto in the final. I think it was probably also the fact that the last time these two sides met, Vancouver lost 7-0. So I think there might have been a bit of consternation about that. Indeed, but needless to say, Vancouver have gotten themselves there, you know, you touched on how hard they had to fight to get through that semi-final, and we've seen it before, teams that have to grit and graft and maybe look like they're down and out, Lioness as I'm looking at you, still managing to make their way to the final, and I feel like both routes can give both teams a different type of confidence.

16:37Yeah, it's about character as well. And we all know what happens in cup-style football. When it comes down to one set of 90 minutes, anything can happen. So they will be holding on to that. They know they have good players within their ranks as well. You're looking at the likes of Quinn in midfield. And then I mentioned before Holly Ward, young, really, you know, lots of potential around her. Really exciting young forwards. So I think, yeah, they've got, they will be coming into this confident that they can do a number on their opponents. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. Now, we did just get a press release dropped into our inbox, which I am going to say, even though it's embargoed, because by the time this goes out, everyone's going to know.

17:17But the government of Canada has announced their intent to invest up to$5.45 million in support of NSL growth, which is really cool. So I believe ministers are potentially going to the game to kind of flesh that out and explain more about what they want to do. but essentially you know they're looking at helping deliver facility upgrades in the for nsl venues across the country plus kind of additional opportunities to support regional economic development and community infrastructure tied to nsl expansion um so yeah a pretty cool moment and a real kind of statement of intent from not just the nsl but from the government as well to kind of back this absolutely and it's crucial and for you know for years canada soccer kind of didn't take this responsibility up in terms of building a league at all they didn't really put the investment well they didn't have one first of all a professional one at least um they didn't put in the investment so the fact that you know you're in year one and you're kind of getting this kind of revenue this money in the revenue that came out of it as well i think it was like 30 million canadian dollars in the first year revenue um so it's proven a success i know it's very as diana matherson said it's it's the first year uh they are really really ambitious they want more.

18:33But those kind of numbers are kind of telling you the interest and the investment that's coming in to have that kind of support from the government as well. I think Diana was saying, you know, there is an infrastructure problem in Canada. You have quite small pitches and then you've got like kind of the big, big stadia. We all seem to have that problem. There's no medium size. Yeah, it's a struggle for medium facilities in between. So it's about trying to enhance that side of things as well and if you're going to want to attract the best players in the world which they do ultimately they're going to need to have everything around that to make it the league but I also thought what Diana said about the economy was really interesting they want to really you know invest in Canada and that's absolutely key yeah absolutely well that's the kind of macro that's the big stuff that's the future now we're going to focus on the actual final, the last game of this league, this inaugural NSL league between Toronto and Vancouver.

19:46So I am pitch side right now ahead of the Northern Super League final between Toronto and Vancouver. AFC Toronto and Vancouver Rise to give them their official titles. Atmosphere is building. We're just under half an hour away from kickoff. It has unfortunately been absolutely torrential rain before this game, which is disappointing. It meant that the fan zone was practically empty while people tried to huddle under whatever bits of infrastructure they could find around the stadium to try and stay dry. We even had a lightning warning at one point. So, yeah, not just fireworks on the pitch, I'm imagining today, but also off it.

20:26It's been interesting getting to this point. As I said previously in the pod, this is kind of a bit like the NWSL in terms of having a playoff option. So they met each other, I think, maybe five or six times, each team playing 25 times in a six-team league. So you're meeting your opponent fairly regularly. So I feel like these two will definitely know each other pretty well. And as ever, a final, anything can happen, right? So yeah, here's hoping for Thunder and Lightning, maybe on the pitch and no more offered for me.

21:49Copyright 2019 NETWORTH DRIVING Okay, Sophie, we are back in our hotel. We were going to do post-match from the stadium, but I was very wet and soaked through. I was very cold. You weren't in the best mood. I wasn't in the best mood, Sophie. That game seemed to have everything, and I needed to get back to a warm room before we could actually sit down and dissect it, because the last time we spoke was when Toronto were leading. Toronto looked pretty comfortable. Toronto looked like the better team. Then we had the lightning break. Vancouver quite literally and figuratively weathered a storm and came back out second half with much more intent, much more of a clearer idea of what they wanted to do.

22:41Despite losing Quinn, as you touched on just before that lightning break, they are a key player in midfield, which we discussed. but suddenly the game turned on its head and ladies and gentlemen Vancouver Rise have won the inaugural Northern Super League and you kind of just felt the momentum swing um they had to get through that seven minutes after that lightning break um and then they had to kind of you know so they had to it was a really weird process because they had seven minutes of play and then another stoppage happened because it's halftime but then when they came back after after halftime They really got themselves going.

23:16They fixed the midfield issues. That was kind of where the momentum swung from. They were finding joy in the channels, down the wings. And yeah, I guess the equaliser was a slightly fortunate one. Unfortunate for the goalie. Went in off the goalie. But then their winner was absolutely superb. Kind of the break. And Holly Ward's score is kind of really fitting. She's Vancouver born. She's had a brilliant year. She's had a breakout year, I think. she got called up to the national team in april scored her first goal for the national team in june and she became the first ever nsl player to score for the national team so um lots of records for her and then she scored the winning goal to get her side the trophy it was one of those games where it felt like by the second half no matter what toronto threw at them they just couldn't seem to find the back of the net and the longer the game went on the more confident vancouver became because they'd gotten that when they got that goal back suddenly they were like right we've literally leveled the playing field now it's anybody's game we just need the one goal and as long as Toronto went on not scoring their tails Vancouver's tails are kind of upped you know and Toronto started to get a little bit desperate almost for that goal you always say you have to take your chances especially in finals and Toronto let so many so many go and you could tell with every missed opportunity that Toronto had Vancouver was slowly slowly getting more creative more yeah more on the front foot more like knowing that they needed one chance to get back into the game and then one chance to win it and they were very very clinical with it and that was the difference between the two sides in the end it was something their coach Anya spoke about post-match as well was kind of they've had to graft their way through this league and managed to get themselves that kind of playoff spot fight their way through the semi-finals go 1-0 down to Toronto in Toronto feel like they're on the back foot and obviously maybe just drew on that experience that they gained throughout the league and to then come and get that win and it's a real kind of story isn't it and when you think how much that sets them up for the future right you're talking about seven months of pro football the first seven months ever this is really just for all of these teams and all of these players it's a real starting point and there's so much more to come so to see how it was quite funny in the press conference when they were talking about the goalkeeper Morgan McClassen you know they were asking about because she made some really key saves in the opening stages to deny Toronto and the coach Anya was saying you know it's not just a you know the quality as a law keeper you've really kind of bulked up in the gym so and your like shoulders have gone so I think for all of these players it's been a real journey in this first year it's about adapting to the league adapting to pro football adapting to the nutrition that's required the fitness is required going to the gym in the the right way and all of that stuff and when you're successful in that first year and you've won something I can only set you up with the foundations to you know of kind of build on this it's it's really a start and also in terms of attracting players they are now the champions of the nsl you've got to think that that will bring um players to the team as well yeah and i think for us having seen them in the first game and the last game the improvement in those seven months the quality the tactics the technical ability on display in the final it was a really good game of football you know everyone had spoken pre-match about it being a midfield battle it wasn't going to be you know a transitional game of football it was a really enjoyable match and a stark improvement not that they were bad in the first game but this was it was the first game together they hadn't been together that long we'd spoken to Lydia Bedford about their their pre-season if you like and what's been needed to get everyone together and ready to play as a team in such a short space of time so to see the how much they've evolved in that seven months was super impressive Yeah, and I said this to the girl I was sitting next to at the game, you know, not in a condescending way, but you don't expect that kind of quality necessarily from seven months of football.

27:29I would have expected it to be much less. So I was really pleasantly surprised by the standard, by the tactical nature of the game, the way that they really understood their structures and processes. and for that to happen after seven months you can only imagine what happened in year two year three and how that can develop over time i think you've got a real eclectic mix of like styles and coaches as well um and you've got a bit of a european influence coming in um in terms of like ania she's you know european so bringing those kind of learnings from from abroad as well is really crucial rather than being just stuck in kind of a canadian bubble i guess um and relying on that So it's going to develop them all as players in terms of the different ways that you can play football and the styles and different positions can develop.

28:20It's clear from everything I've seen at the NSL that it is here to stay and thrive. I asked Christine, Erin and Diana where they think the league heads to next and what impact it could have in the next 10 years. I think the sky's the limit. I mean, obviously, Canadians need to come out and buy tickets and continue to support and tune in on television. And yeah, the sky's the limit, obviously looking to expand over the next couple of years. But it's been a solid start. I'm not sure what will happen in the future. My hope is that the league continues to progress at the rate I think it will. and this league will be top two or three as far as quality.

29:02But I think what this league does in its infancy is create the ability of these young players to get games week in and week out. Lots of minutes, whereas if they were already playing in Europe, they may only be getting subbed in in the 80th minute, for example. Kayleigh Hunter is playing a lot of minutes consistently and you can see it in the development of her game already. So I think those are a few reasons that I hope we continue to have them come through our systems. I know the next stage is building stronger academies, which will be integral to keeping those players at home. You know, we want to build this weekend into the Grey Cup, the women's sport equivalent of the Grey Cup, a celebration of women's sport every year in Canada.

29:42After this, we've announced expansion, so we're going to add one team for 2027. Regional Football W Champions Cup has started and we're looking forward to getting a Canadian team in that competition, so that's a really exciting next step as well. Overall, this league was created by players, for players, and I think what's been great about that is, it's not like they've been running and trying to, my favourite phrase, trying to fix the plane while flying. They came into this with a minimum salary, strength and conditioning was there, nutrition was there maternity pay mental health like a lot of these things these players had thought about from their career and their experiences and they've made sure that they exist from the get-go for the for this league you know they also wanted to provide a pathway for young canadians wanting to play professional football and of the 148 players involved with the six clubs 101 were canadian with seven of them subsequently receiving senior international call-ups so that's a huge plus in year one and so you only have to look at that final you had yeah 17 year old Kaylee Hunter scoring the opener for Toronto I mean she's got such a bright future for the Canadian national team and then you look at Holly Ward who I mentioned before you know those two she's 22 those two young players are could be playing in that senior team for Casey Stonig for many years to come and they've now had the platform to launch their careers at a high level and some of the numbers as well from the first year um which i'm reading from the very good article that you wrote in the guardian by the way on this uh more than 275 000 tickets were sold um which put the attendance figures in the top five globally of leagues globally which is pretty impressive so in terms of first years of leagues i think they can definitely give themselves a pat on the back they can be very proud of what they've achieved thus far but i'm sure as i could i'm sure you guys can as well from listening to Diana Matheson the likes of Christine Sinclair they outrested on the laurels they are not standing still they're already thinking about year two year three and what's next thanks so much for listening to today's Upfront if you enjoyed today's episode remember to subscribe and give us a five-star review in the meantime see you next week

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