Chelsea Legend Claire Rafferty on her work in football since retirement, living with ADHD and the fortunes of her former clubs

0:28Welcome to Upfront, I'm Chloe Morgan. the bottom. Welcome to the pod, Claire. Thank you so, so much for joining us, mate. It's been a while. Me and Claire celebrated the Euros final, that Spain defeat, what, a few months ago now? It was a chaotic room in the middle of Soho. Josie Green was there from the World Squad. There was a brass band playing. People were jumping on the sofas. It was absolute chaos. Claire was one of them. Yeah, Claire was actually leading the processions. It was pretty wild um yeah it was a vibe wasn't it it was an absolute vibe i think that's probably one of the best atmospheres actually that i've been to apart from being there live i think that was that was definitely an experience for sure dancing up and down singing sweet caroline live music the but yeah it was so so good it was unbelievable people were throwing crispy creams across the floor it was um yeah it was utter chaos but um yeah how are you doing mate how's life since then yeah i'm doing very very well thank you i've actually been to Disneyland Paris well I was there last week so I've actually got the t-shirt on I thought I'd rep it because I loved it so much love that um but yeah other than that I got married actually um Disneyland was a bit of a honeymoon so thank you um so yeah all really good quite quite a summer since since those euros yeah did you have like the wedding is the bride is uh you know what I saw a couple of them but I thought because it was too yeah the wedding's already been so I thought I can't I can't me dragging it on um but i went on yeah i went under quite a lot of the rides tower of terror um spider-man ride that was really cool you had to like shoot the the little spiders with your handles i mean it'd be interesting to watch back on video because i was just like firing my arms all over the place but no it was really really good albeit it was half term so it was quite busy but um still very fun i was gonna say that sounds like the worst time to go to disneyland yeah yeah exactly but the magic the magic of disney took over oh well i'm so so glad that you've uh You've come back just in enough time to kind of join us on the pod and talk about all things that you've been up to.

2:30So, yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for coming on. I'm looking forward to this chat. Me too. And I have to now ask you about serious stuff now. I mean, it would be great to speak to you about the work you've been involved in since you were last on the pod in 2022. You've been at Transfer Room. So for those who aren't familiar, Transfer Room is a huge digital marketplace that connects clubs, agents and players across the world. Would you be able to speak maybe just a little bit about how you became part of the organisation and what you do within it? Yeah, definitely. So I've been at Transfer Room for three years now, working solely with men's football.

3:06However, that is changing moving forward and I can kind of cover that later on. I work with the UK based agencies. Prior to that, I was working with agencies from Scandinavia. There's 800 clubs on the platform all around the world that use it, over 500 agencies. So it very much is around making sure that I am helping those agencies and those clubs open up doors. So increase the network, have that real time feedback and that data access, find out availability of players and have that visibility of, you know, financial information, transfer fees, salaries. So it's really, really interesting. Great to be involved in football still, however, somewhat removed.

3:46but still yeah really really fun kind of engaging with agencies seeing how that world works and then also on the club side seeing seeing how both worlds interject now you mentioned there mate that the um I mean transfer room obviously at the moment doesn't operate in women's football but you kind of alluded to the fact that it could be kind of going that way um yeah how do you kind of see the world of women's scouting and transfers changing in the next few years and what are sort of transfer rooms plans to kind of operate more in the women's space yeah so look we all know that the women's football industry has experienced massive, unprecedented growth with the rise in revenues, fan bases, things like that.

4:22But what we are seeing is those more mature, like multi-year contracts. They're becoming more and more common. We've got higher transfer fees, higher costs that are actually associated with player trading. Clubs are starting to develop their trading strategies, which we haven't seen as much in the past. We've got those top-level teams that have already got that trading strategy in place, but then we've seen the increase in that from some of the other teams as well, which is important. But one thing at Transferring, what we've noticed is that there is a disconnected global ecosystem. So that is actually hindering the clubs, the agencies, because the connections are varying.

4:57And that's basically due to the developmental speeds and limited scouting infrastructure as well. So I think the challenges lie around, you know, can we bring a tool to the women's football industry and the women's football transfer market to help maintain that upward trajectory? but ultimately that you know having spoken to the majority of WSL one and two clubs over the last couple of months finding out what their key challenges are when recruiting when when out placing players as well yeah it's been really really interesting and and yeah I mean I don't know how much you want me to dive into some of those challenges but it definitely is is is quite common the theme that I've been hearing is quite consistent and it doesn't matter what team and what level and what level of investment is within that team.

5:40And how has it kind of been with the challenges that you've seen faced by the WSL 1 clubs as opposed to the WSL 2 clubs because it kind of feels like they're a little bit of a world apart in terms of the transfers because you know you're looking at some of the clubs like Arsenal and Chelsea and you're seeing these massive fees now in the space you know Alyssa Thompson, Amy Germer and sort of Olivia Smith and all these like massive massive numbers but that seems like a world apart to the WSL 2 and sort of where they're at with you know buying players and you know nurturing players to kind of you know sell them off as assets and things like that I mean yeah what are some of the differences that you've seen yeah i i think you've highlighted a couple there in terms of first and foremost the internal infrastructure so the resources is there a head of recruitment even in place some of these these clubs don't actually have that system in place and and that that job is falling on maybe like a general manager or a director of women's football who's doing everything all at once um i think in addition what i have seen is is from feedback from those wsl2 clubs is they're they're all fishing in the same pond in terms of that network.

6:40So they really are lacking that direct access to decision makers in global markets. Also, you know, the expense that comes with, you know, the policies behind visas and what that looks like for clubs as well. But ultimately, I feel like the clubs within the WSL2, they're, I mean, more reliant on agents for recommendations. And those agents are only obviously pushing their own players forward which creates this cycle of the same players kind of being being um almost like i don't want to remove kind of like the person within that that but almost being shipped around to all the different clubs and and i feel like um yeah i just i just think that's one of the the issues there the the lack of resources as well because you know having to do a lot of the data research themselves finding out contract information who is actually the player's agent in the first place valuation data what is the value of a player um we've got the higher end that's being really pushed up by by the likes of those those big transfers that we've seen over the summer um but those those WSL2 clubs are obviously struggling to to compete within the global global market because of those higher transfer fees as well I was going to ask you about data because obviously that's something that's been lacking for a long time in the women's game.

7:57And I guess that hinders, you know, knowledge and access to information about players from maybe beyond that small pool that they're all kind of fishing in, if you like. Have you noticed a change in what's available to obviously clubs and managers and companies like yourself? Yeah, so I think there are obviously providers that will provide a certain amount of coverage in leagues. however it seems to be everyone's using the same provider as well so that same information is being kind of dissected by each of the clubs which once again narrows that that that pull down and that access to the data for some of those lesser known leagues that don't have the visibility causes issues because it does reduce that that talent pool you know clubs are struggling to get in addition to the fact they've got some of that baseline data it's the actual real-time access to the player performance, the trends, the insights that you actually need to make those informed decisions.

8:55Now, if you're using like a data provider, so for example, the likes of YScout, obviously, you're going to have to be trying to manually extract that information. How do you analyse that? It can be slow, it can be costly, sourcing this kind of information. Then you have to log it. Some clubs are using different systems to log it. They've all got different documents that they'll pull all this information into. and it just slows the whole process down, which actually can create the clubs to be slow to react to market opportunities ultimately. So yeah, and then we see also around tournament football, we see triggers of transfer activity, which pushes up asking prices.

9:34Obviously, at the back of Euros, we see things like that and those performances can inflate player asking prices because that visibility isn't there throughout the whole of that season for wherever that player is playing for their club. and then yeah obviously the the valuation data those rising transfer fees I mean understanding what the actual accurate market value for a player is is really difficult so obviously with the what we do on the men's side what we're looking to explore on the women's side at transfer room is make that visible clubs can make that information visible they can make their players available they can set their transfer fees they can set their salaries and you know we've heard it from both end of the spectrum if you're a chelsea if you're a london city you're as soon as an agent brings you a player or another club speaks to you the price goes up so controlling that as well at the top end but also at the bottom end you know trying to set set that that transparency of budgets so it kind of works both ways and um in the favor of of kind of all levels um from all around the world so we're not obviously i'm i'm speaking mainly to wsl um one and two clubs but i think from a player perspective I was I always say when I'm speaking to the clubs if I had something like transfer room or if my club had transfer room or my agent had transfer room my career would have looked totally different I'm sure Chloe you you probably would feel the same I think we probably would have been valued a little bit differently to be fair Claire just slightly I think yeah just I don't know what my expected transfer value would have been I wouldn't want to know mine maybe the injury data injury data log would be quite long I reckon mine would have been a minus I would have had to pay clubs to take me.

11:09No, I really appreciate you giving us a bit of an insight as to sort of what Transfer Room are doing and kind of like the ambitions in the women's space as well. I think it's super, super interesting, the kind of data around that, because it does, I think from an outsider perspective, sometimes feel like these figures are being pulled from sort of thin air and just sort of whatever the highest bidder will pay. And especially, I think how much power, like you said, is going to be given to those, the WSL2 clubs in particular, who don't have any kind of data sets or any people in their backroom staff who have that experience to kind of navigate those conversations and negotiations.

11:39So, yeah, super, super exciting. But it sounds like you've got a lot of work on your hands. But I'm going to change that slightly. We obviously know a little bit about what you do in a professional space. But the other week as part of World Mental Health Day, Rach had the amazing pleasure of speaking to Tottenham Vice Captain Molly Bartrip. Since 2022, Molly has spoken openly and very powerfully about her experience with anxiety and depression. um October marked ADHD awareness month so we wanted to kind of take this opportunity to speak to you about your experience living with ADHD um you got your diagnosis in 2022 um can you tell us a little bit about how this this came about so I think for me it came at a big transitional stage of my life um retiring from from football having you know searching for who I was I think that's where it ultimately came from that that desire to not so much kind of I don't like so much like the label of it but I knew that I wasn't the same as everyone else and I think you know having the structure of playing full-time professional environment that being taken away from you the loss of identity the I think within the football you know within my career the the rejection sensitivity that comes with things I felt like when I played I had to be this person um that I actually thought I was but I wasn't so when I retired I had to figure out who I was again um and yeah that came with a with a process of of getting a diagnosis for ADHD trying to understand who I was as a person um you know the strengths and the pros and cons that come with that and how I can apply that now into yeah my kind of new new life I feel like I've had two lives I actually don't recognize myself from that person who I was when I was playing I don't know whether like it's a like a response where I've just kind of blocked it out a little bit but I feel like I had to play a role almost to get through that and now I'm being more more myself I feel like.

13:41And how has your life changed I guess since that diagnosis particularly receiving that diagnosis as an adult has it kind of maybe explained a lot for you or allowed yourself to be more you as you said yeah I think it's funny because when I was playing I remember people used to throw it around be like oh Raff you sure you don't have ADHD you can't sit still this this and this and I used to think oh all right I kind of thought it was a bit funny rather than anything um it did answer the questions that I knew I wasn't the same as everyone else but also that that wasn't a bad thing and I think getting that that diagnosis through at that older age when I was slightly more mature and I could almost review the experiences I had why I reacted in a certain way why maybe it might have been different to what I would have liked to reacted or what that might look like because I think for me in particular when I retired I had really you know a couple of years where it was really difficult and I was reaching for other things to try and fulfill what I felt was missing and that what was missing was actually I was I didn't know who I was and so I was trying to still be this you know Raph the footballer where actually that part of my life was just taken I mean not taken like that but I mean like it was no longer that's that's that wasn't relevant anymore to to that so yeah I was making decision very rash decisions to try and fill a void um which you know I think taught me a lot um but also it got me into really really dark places um where i think without that though when i say when i was sitting back i wouldn't actually wouldn't change any of it because i feel very very strong from those some of those negative experiences i had um and yeah i just would i like to raise the awareness of it because i i just feel sometimes people can feel lost but actually it's more you're trying to fit in with what you think you should be rather than who you are

15:46that structure in football then was quite beneficial for you so then you suddenly lost that structure I guess of that kind of life yeah yeah exactly that you know you're you're sent a weekly schedule when you follow that weekly schedule um you know you're told what time to eat breakfast towards the latter stages of my career you're not even having to wash in your own kit and things like that you go home you've got quite a lot of time on your hands luckily I worked as well so I had that structure within that um but I think actually the only when I think back like how was I able to do both and I think it was the ADHD that kind of superpower that allowed me to to kind of change my concentration or have to do something different so a footballer in the morning working for Deutsche Bank in the afternoon like when I like when I actually think I just think oh god I must have been exhausted but it wasn't it was just like the energy that I had to try and switch what I was doing in my mind to keep me keep me sane really.

16:40And would you say if there's anything that sort of there's been a benefit in having ADHD because you feel so many so many positives to having a diagnosis in a way you sort of um you know you're able to do certain things that other people can't do I mean the careers that you've had have been there's always been multiple things that you've been doing I think we've been quite similar I suppose in that respect that you've had football to contend with then as sort of a professional career then you do sort of maybe punditry on the outside and comms or a podcast and sometimes sort of um people have said that there's been a benefit in being able to kind of wear so many different hats with an ADHD diagnosed someone if that was sort of anything that you'd experienced at all yeah definitely I think um and one one one really positive thing from working the working whilst I was playing was I got to learn really early on what those transferable skills were from the football pitch into the workplace.

17:26Obviously, you know, the ability to problem solve, react quickly, think on your feet. And I think also delegate, even though you're trying to do many different things at once or asking for help. And I think that's probably one of the biggest superpowers I've learned since getting my diagnosis. If I'd known that a little bit earlier, I think I would have been more outspoken asking for help with things. because I think one of the biggest issues, and I still face it, is that emotional kind of sensitivity. Everyone always told me I'm so sensitive. But actually, that also is a superpower because it means, you know, I feel like I can connect with people, you know, on an emotional level.

18:05And I think life is all about that, isn't it? Obviously, we get so caught up in what we're doing next, what we're doing now. But, yeah, I think one thing that I've learned having ADHD is to recognise when I'm doing that and pause and actually be present. As soon as I don't do that, I just don't feel myself. Something you've been quite vocal in support of has been more sensory rooms being introduced at football stadiums. Could you explain maybe a bit more about what they are for our listeners who may not be aware of how they help? Yeah, definitely. So I actually went to one a while ago at Wembley Stadium where it was the first one that they'd introduced.

18:41and it was an environment that allows people to enjoy the game in the way that they want to, in the way that they feel comfortable. Obviously, noise can be issues, distractions, can be overwhelming. And something that I find when I go to games, I actually don't go to that many games because I find the crowd quite overwhelming. I find even getting to the game sometimes is a lot. So having an environment that you know, even getting to the stadium, it can be difficult. But once you get to a stadium, knowing that you've got that safe space, where you can come away from the pitch, you know, if the noise are getting too much or you can come and watch the game inside with all different kind of environments where you can take your concentration away from what it is and focus on something else.

19:25And it's ultimately about creating a safe space. And I think stadium, it's really important in stadiums because everyone should have the opportunity to go and watch a football game or any kind of, you know, sport and be comfortable within their environment. and that goes for, yeah, kind of, I think everyone should be able to come to a football game, whatever that looks like, whether you're neurodiversion or, you know, if you're whatever, everyone should be able to be welcomed into a space. And yeah, I know that stadiums are starting to implement that, but I think it's really, really important that it is more common.

19:57Did they have sensory spaces in Disneyland? I'm just thinking like in terms of the football stadium experience in Disneyland, they're very similar in terms of how overwhelming they are. It was overwhelming. it was so overwhelming but they did have spaces um that i did highlight before on the map um so i could take a little timeouts but i think to be honest disneyland is quite overwhelming place anyway um but it's not for the faint-hearted i just i can't i counteracted it by just buying a lot of merch every time i got it wrong i went into the shop and just bought something which you know wasn't resident great from a bank balance i bet your new wife was super super happy about that just oh yeah oh she she she got a lot of stash don't you worry some ears as well um on a slightly different note we also want to talk to you about two of your former teams in the WSL right now uh Chelsea and West Ham you made over a hundred appearances for Chelsea and then you ended your career at West Ham I mean let's start a little bit with Chelsea obviously so dominant uh absolute superpower they feel unstoppable at the moment every single day we see another incredible transfer as you were talking and you just think how many more one the squad is already big enough there's absolutely no space for any more but to the caliber of the players that you're bringing in it just feels like it just feels like a little bit of a goliath um obviously Sonia Bompasla still unbeaten in the league since taking over last year I mean has it surprised you kind of how seamless the transition has been between sort of her taking over and obviously the reign that Emma Hayes has had or do you actually just feel like Like, it was always going to be this way with the calibre of players that you've got.

21:32You're always going to, it doesn't, not that it doesn't matter who's at the helm, but you already have a winning, well-oiled machine there. Yeah, I think when you get to a certain level of calibre of players, I think that changeover, changing of the guard is slightly easier just because it's that mentality that Emma, you know, tried to install in all the players. It took a long time, you know, all them years where we weren't great at all, losing, even getting to the latter stages of FA Cup finals, for example, and losing and things like that. That mentality is... I was there. I remember watching them.

22:06You remember. It feels like years ago. I don't remember Chelsea losing. It was now when we think about it. But there was that transition stage. And I think mentality is such an important element that you can't buy. And it's ingrained in the players, yes, that you bring in, but also it's the staff, the structure that you have around. And, you know, the way the team has transitioned from when we had like hardly any staff to, I don't even know how many staff they have now, but I'm sure they've probably got staff for everything possible. But that's what you need. It's them small differences, isn't it?

22:33But I think the level of players that Chelsea are bringing in, I mean, are quite closely watching the transfers, even more so, obviously working a transfer room. And it just never ceases to surprise me because you feel like they're always two windows ahead. I feel like in terms of what that looks like and yes there's the strive of you know the Champions League um and the talent that you need to to ensure you win that but I mean I just wouldn't I just wouldn't like I wouldn't like to be in that squad now because I just think it must be so difficult to keep everyone happy but I guess going to a club like Chelsea you know that there's going to be competition constantly um but yeah I mean I mean it it's it's crazy and I think that they will win this league again.

23:19I think they'll go on to dominate again. I think the Champions League, I'd like to say yes, because the thing for me, what happens after that? What happens when they win the Champions League again? Do you just keep going and going and going and going? Maybe just have a break. Just pause. I know, just let someone else win. Yeah, I think that's the biggest problem as well is that like, teams are trying to get closer to that, but Chelsea never stop moving. And I think that's the difficulty. You talk about catching them, but it's very difficult when they keep moving forward. And our listeners are sick of me talking about Chelsea's mentality, but I'm so glad you brought it up because I really think that is one of the biggest weapons in that squad is the mentality within that team.

23:57yeah for sure look you yeah you can't this is something you you can't obviously you can buy it because they are buying it um but it is in the day-to-day it's the ruthlessness in the training the the mentality of you know if you make a mistake you're held accountable by your teammate and what that looks like is probably very different to what it looked like when i was there um but you know even the likes of millie bright she was the one holding everyone accountable even at that younger age when she came in we had obviously the likes of kate chapman who set their mentality as well um but they've got leaders in that team who've got experience you know playing playing all around the world so yeah it's it's a there's a selfishness that comes with a winning mentality that i'm sure every single player has um and yeah it's it's it's a i'm sure it's a brutal place to be to be honest i don't think i've got the i don't think i'd have the emotional uh strength to be within that team anymore considering how sensitive i am with adhd you know well yeah the thought of like fighting for your spot week in week out you sort of you know we've seen them dominate teams ridiculously and then sort of they're already winning by a substantial amount by half time and then you see the caliber of like the substitutes that they bring in and you can see the disappointment from some of the wsl teams now like oh god we thought we were doing mildly okay and now Kerr's coming on, Wrighton's coming on, Baltimore's coming on and you just think, what is the point?

25:20I think that's a lot to do with it. You're never safe within that team. I remember even when I was playing, Emma, we used to try and bring a left back in I felt like every single window. Always looking over my shoulder to see who was coming in and she'd make it obvious and clear. She'd be saying, I'm bringing in this player, you better fight for your place. So it's like that, it's brutal. But yeah, the talent and they're bringing off the bench. I mean, some of them must be frustrated that they're not starting, but then when you look beside your two teammates, you're like, oh, actually, fair enough.

25:47Fair enough, pretty decent. It's safe to say West Ham are maybe having a less successful start to the season, currently sitting bottom. For me, it's about what's... It's those small margins we talk about in football that just, when they don't happen, you know, you just drop further and further down the table. And it just feels a bit like that with West Ham. It's like there are pieces there, but they just don't seem to be slotting together at the right time. And I feel like what that happens is contagious, isn't it, within a squad when those small little things aren't going your way, those small details, you know, lacking at cutting edge in the final for defensive errors, goalkeeping errors.

26:26I feel like it's with West Ham it's a mentality of they're already beaten or they feel that negativity maybe not so much already beaten but they've got weight on their shoulders before they've even started playing a game and when you play a game with that mentality it's very difficult because every mistake you make is you know highlighted tenfold because there's been a lot of negativity around the team so it it kind of is claustrophobic in that sense and I feel like that's in the way that they're playing you know they they do show some positive signs I think build-up play has been better but you know when it comes to that final decision when that pressure is really on it's probably the fear of making a mistake maybe that's kind of overwhelming them at the moment more so than than anything else and also I just think like the kind of the long-term recruitment structure of of the side I think there's a lot of younger players that have come in a lot of more experienced players left and I just yeah I just seems to be let's just stay safe every single season rather than long-term vision that we see from some of the other clubs.

27:30I'm glad you said that as well, because it does feel like we in the media then play a part in putting pressure on teams and the conversation then is just, there's nothing there, it's not good, etc, etc. When actually, I'm glad you've spoken about the build-up play and those small pieces that are missing. It's interesting then how you turn that around in a squad, right? It's almost like you just need that one 3-0 win to just kind of take the pressure off and you tell yourself, we do know what we're doing. It's just the small margins. And that kind of happened to them last season, didn't it? In the second half of the season as well.

28:03Yeah, we saw kind of a change of mentality in them, didn't we, last season? And they really kind of showed signs of their potential. I feel like you're right. It needs to be not even a big win. I think just a win, but a performance where they're enjoying it. It's kind of the enjoyment needs to come back in. And that does come from winning. Or even like a hard-fought draw. like something that really fires the team gets them all on the same page because it's very easy when when you're in a team that's not doing well to start you know kind of going oh you know that was rubbish what you're doing or start blaming and looking at other people rather than looking internally so i think then there needs to be a win i feel like it needs it should come i mean when we're looking at the uh the odds they've got to be got to be in there for for a win soon but i just think it also speaks volume for the investment for the clubs in and around them you know it's they're kind of getting left behind a little bit.

28:54Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think there is the trading strategy of the club, the kind of long-term vision, it seems. I think they're lucky this season because there's no automatic relegation, is there? Am I right in saying that? Yeah, there's no automatic relegation. So I think of all the seasons to kind of maybe reset, it looks like they're brought in them younger players. Yeah, brought in them younger players maybe to go again in the winter window. But I mean, there needs to be a big transfer window, I think, for them. in order to maintain some kind of levels. I think it's, from what you're saying there, Claire, it feels like you kind of need to get back to that mentality of fearlessness that West Ham once had.

29:32There was the FA Cup final at Wembley. I mean, there was just like a... Good times. Yeah, I was going to say, does it feel like a far cry from that moment in 2019 to kind of where the team are now? Because it felt like there was a trajectory that was sort of starting to take place and it's got a little bit flat and then sort of peaked at moments and kind of fallen flat a little bit this year. but I kind of feel like West Ham still has it in them to like get back to like that kind of like gritty yeah it's like the identity of the team you need it's like you need maybe someone to come up through the academy who's got that core kind of identity of what West Ham is or find ways of implementing it you know whether that through the manager obviously it was Matt Beard who was managing at the time who has that that grittiness that ruthlessness um that got us to that FA Cup final and and I actually remember that season we wrote on the on the wall set our intentions that we were going to reach that final um and we we believed it because we took in one game at a time and and we did have that bite about us and um i mean obviously the as i was saying before like the kind of transfer strategy of the club it's them younger less experienced players do they have the the experience and kind of the level to be able to manage games when it is fine when that fine line and those fine differences are apparent especially when when the team's going through such a difficult period so bringing in someone experienced even on loan like bringing in one or two experienced players to try and settle the team a little bit the spine of that team it really needs working it's something rianne skinner has spoken about vocally since joining that club is the difficulty with short short kind of deals for players and getting them in for a year or two years and how difficult it is then to kind of build something when you're constantly thinking about having to replace or extend or whatever that might be so i guess that's another area that really needs to be invested in is actually commitment to a longer term project right because right now football's so short term yeah exactly and that that's exactly it that that's the trading strategy that i've been discussing with with the majority of the clubs i've been speaking to as well like what does that look like for you you know are you bringing in those younger players with the aim of loaning them out bringing them back in gaining the experience or are you going to be bringing in those you know 23 to 27 year olds who have experience um and can kind of settle that with you know offering them the longer term contracts knowing that maybe they might come towards the end of their careers at West Ham I mean yeah it's it's difficult but once again I just feel like the infrastructure around certain clubs when recruiting um is is limited um obviously not all clubs but but for some and I can't speak for for West Ham but um yeah there's definitely needs to be more of a long-term vision in order to to secure their place in the top league because if they carry on other clubs are going to catch them up we've seen london city how well they've done um but yeah oh claire it feels like it's easy to go into the dressing room and just give it a bit of that 2019 mentality like one of those like big pep talks yeah come on girls let's let's fucking go that kind of thing let's do it let's do it i wish i could you know what i remember the fa cup final actually there was a bug going around i was so ill on the morning of the final i had to stay away from the team but i was like to beady i was like please let me play I really want to just play because it's so important and I think I only played half the game and come over half time because I was like literally vomiting on the pitch wasn't wasn't a great look but it was like we had a lot of younger players as well as as those more experienced obviously Jilly Kate Longhurst as well and I felt like I had to play my role because I knew how I could influence the game and influence the younger players who had more legs than me at the time to to empower them and I think that's what the team needs they've got some talented players with them at the moment they just need those those spying players who are going to empower um though yeah those talented youth players that they've got coming through it just feels like there's the og players who have played on like the worst grounds ever proper gritty like leg breaking tackles like oh no bronzes literally just played like a euros with a leg broken there were concussions and players just going through it you're throwing up on the side of the pitch you've got jilly kind of like giving it big beans like there was just like giving it all the big ones.

33:32Yeah, WSL, like, hardcore OGs. You know, I don't know if they make them the same anymore, bro. I don't think they did. They've gone soft, I'll tell you that. It's not like it was back in our day. I'll tell you that for free. They've gone soft when we have to pay to play. Yeah, literally that. Oranges at halftime, that kind of vibe. Oversized kits. Bring that back. They should have the WSL youngsters doing, like, two years worth of, like, not being paid. Like, oversized kits. it's like oh no what happens with apprenticeships though when you're trying to fight your way through bring that back i don't mean that i love the fact that i can't believe we're like advocating for going backwards yeah i'll take it all back but you know what i mean well on that lovely and very weird note um thank you so much for joining us claire thank you thank you both for having me take care thank you so much for listening we'll be back on tuesday in the meantime you can find us on instagram and x slash twitter i'm at morgy underscore 89 raches at girls on the ball and we are at upfront underscore pod you can also find us on youtube at upfront pod see you next week

34:52up front is a stack production and part of the a-cast creator network Good luck.