England and Ireland face the play-offs, Alexia Putellas to the WSL and football infrastructure expert Sarah Rock on purpose-built women’s stadia

0:02Welcome to Upfront. I'm Chloe Morgan. And I'm Rachel O'Sullivan. Well, close, but no cigar for England who will have to go through the playoffs to qualify for the World Cup. And so will Ireland after their loss against France. Plus, one of the world's biggest stars appears to be heading to London City Lionesses. Yes, this is not fake news. It's actually almost 95, 99.9 % confirmed now. how could the arrival of Alexei Putez affect the WSL? Finally, we're joined by football infrastructure expert Sarah Rock

0:35Rachel: to find out more about purpose-built stadia in the women's game.

0:38Chloe: We're going to have to ask her if she went into the industry because of her name.

0:44Rachel: I mean, it kind of makes sense, doesn't it? Miss Rock as a football instructor. Oh, you work in buildings. Oh, that makes loads of sense. Yeah, nice, nice. Definitely throw that dad joke at her first off. Rach, you're in an unusual space at the moment, aren't you? You're a little bit tense, a little bit angry, crawling towards the end of the season, getting some frustrating messages. You've had a very bad journey today. It's some going tits up at the very end of the season, isn't it? Such an awful window.

1:10Chloe: Yeah? Are you okay? I am now because once this is over, we're done. Yeah? Yeah. Shall I tell you about my Cork journey? Go on. I did finish a message, send a message to you guys after that game and just said, the police have ended up bringing me and my ma home. And then I just left it at that. Alarming. Yeah. it was a stressful time I thought my mum would come down to Cork for the couple of days, we'd go and watch the match have a nice time and I had someone say they'd sort her a ticket as well for me which is great stuff and then last minute nothing came through with the ticket so I was on the way down on the train being like I need to try and get her a bleeding ticket for the game tonight, getting stressed and it was raining sideways so I did manage to get her a ticket undercover which was like my main concern then I couldn't get a bleeding taxi to the stadium and it got to a point where I was like if we don't leave and start walking now, I'm going to miss the last slot where I can pick up my accreditation.

1:59Chloe: So I was like, I'm so sorry, Matt. You can stay here if you want, but I'm going to walk with my camera gear. And for those of them being, Cork is quite hilly. So two miles in the driving rain to the stadium. Then I had to sit out and set... You left your mum back there to fend for herself. Oh no, my mum was like, let's go. She set the pace. We nearly ran. Right, of course. No, she was well up for it. And then, yeah, so I could see, like when I arrived, I could see her up there. She sent me a picture of her with a glass Prosecco, which, you know, sent me... You and me both, hon. I know, she's having a good time.

2:26Chloe: I sat in the driving rain for 90 plus minutes, didn't stop. And what was lovely is I could actually hear her laughing every now and then through the game, like from the stands. So I knew she was having a nice time. She made a friend. Lovely. She had a lovely time, so that was good. And then we tried to get home from the stadium and had one of those situations where, you know, the Uber picks you up and accepts the journey and then drives around for a bit and then goes, actually, the roads are quite closed or a bit awkward. Could you come to me? And I was like, mate, you're a mile and a half away.

2:51Chloe: That kind of defeats the purpose. So I found myself a police officer. and I was like could you tell me which roads are like open so I can get my Uber and he goes where are you going I said I'm going back into Cork very inquisitive

3:03Rachel: whereabouts a bit nosy

3:04Chloe: and I was like the address hotel and he goes yeah jump in there I'll take you and he drove me and my mum home very very friendly guy lovely chat the whole way home it's great I literally saved me and my mum could not believe it we were both soaking like drenched and this fella drove us home the looks that you must have get though from like In his personal car. In his personal car. Oh, right. Fine, fine, fine. Not blue lights and all that jazz. I was like, who? That would have been cool. Can you imagine? So like photos across like women's football, girls on the ball. Arrested. Prison. She's had enough.

3:37She's lost her shit.

3:38Chloe: She decided the season is ending now. Oh, that's really lovely. I'm really lovely. What a great experience. Yeah, really nice. I thought my mom handled it very well. Good for her. Good for her. Yeah. And Ireland won. So she was like so excited. she came home telling I stepped at all about the different players that she thought had such a great time and then we're out for lunch there on Monday and these two old fellas in the corner of the cafe and I heard one of them go you know Ireland now if they beat France they're going to get 3-2 to the World Cup and you're like really yeah they beat the Dutch now and these two old lads and my mum was like that's when you know change is happening times have changed a new era is upon us you get so much more Irish when you've been back a little while I know yeah sorry yeah

4:17Rachel: Lagarde Lagarde Lagarde Lagarde you're losing your mind Right, we've got to get through this episode. It's the last one that we're going to be doing to finish our full season. That was my tangent. Yeah, I mean, tangent it was. Let's talk about the World Cup qualifiers, because it has not gone to plan for England, or what England fans thought was going to happen. Do you think? Oh, go on.

4:40Chloe: No, but I just wonder. I remember when we talked about these qualifiers right at the beginning, and we were like, Jesus, it's Spain. Fuck's sake. Like, only one team's going to get through. Like, we know, like, this is going to be really tough. Which one's going to get through? it's going to come down to the games between them. Like at the beginning of these qualifiers, everyone seemed pretty like realistic about it. They were like, look, if we get through straight away, brilliant. If we don't, playoffs, you know, which is understandable given the group. And then that's what happened. They finished on the same points and Spain went through on goal difference.

5:08Chloe: Like if you told me that at the beginning of the qualifiers, I'd be like, not like hugely unexpected. But now it's just like, oh my God, what do you mean they're going through the playoffs?

5:18Rachel: I think because both teams are quite evenly matched. And like you said, there is a yo-yo of the results where Spain win one, England win one, Spain win one. And obviously England won what is essentially the first leg of the World Cup qualifiers. So I think there was an expectation that, OK, well, if England just get a draw in this game against Spain, if they just keep them at bay for 90 minutes, which I know is a tough ask. I know that's very easy said than done. But you have the advantage. You've had the advantage pretty much because you've actually had quite a good qualifying period. and then to lose it 4-0 and in the manner in which it was done it wasn't one of the close results that we normally see the 2-1s or the 1-0s or whatever it was it was a complete and utter destruction of England and I think it was a breakdown pretty much in everything that we'd seen happen and be quite successful in the other qualifiers and then going into this game I had the fortune and privilege of watching it in Mexico one of the only bars in Mexico City that I could find that was playing Disney or ESPN or whatever it was

6:13Chloe: I'm only going to see the inside of a boardroom I'm going to have a terrible time.

6:16Rachel: Well, yeah, but I did manage to find a little bit of time to go and see my beloved nation. Yeah, with a cheeky little pint as well, which I had missed. But I was just shell-shocked. You know, I was sat in the bar by myself as well. I had no one to kind of relay this jaw-drop horror as goal after goal after goal. I'm going to need some shots. Kept going in. Because England aren't having any. And I was like, I would love to see the stats at the end of this game. And we've got the stats now. So shots, 21 to 3. shots on target 9-0 it was just it was a runaway train for Spain they were scoring they were having fun England at no point seemed to have any control on the game it felt like Spain had and I called it in the group chat magnetic boots on because it felt like you know when you you watch young kids like 3 or 4 years old and they all gravitate towards the ball and they'd have no awareness of like strass your shape or whatever it is and that's to be expected they're so young but like it felt like Spain were doing that because every time England had the ball it was this cluster of Spanish players just shutting down the space suffocating the space England had nowhere to go and the worst thing about it was I thought there was going to be a bit of a resurgence in the second half that they were going to kind of try and problem solve some of this be a little bit more on the front foot and the same thing happened again in the second half I saw no escalation or no no increase in kind of a we can get a foothold in this game but I mean what did you think because I was like jaw to the floor what's happened here I think what

7:41Chloe: was weird was that England had kind of worked out the playbook of how to play Spain and despite all the complaints people have where they're like Spain are so much better and England are boring and they're defensive it's like well that's how you have to play Spain let's be real you can't go and try and outplay the Spanish team right but England didn't really do that which that's what I thought was weird it was like I don't know if the the page in the book got stuck or something but they went on to like a different game plan for the wrong team it seemed like do you know what I mean which was weird from England because normally even when their backs against the wall to spain they know what they're doing they know how to be out of possession they're very effective out of possession their shape is really good confidence to be in our possession they know what they just they know that game plan so for whatever reason that game plan just didn't seem to be what they went for which is weird because like you say they didn't need to win it so it was almost like they went out there to win it in a kind of a quite an attacking fashion almost or like just the wrong game plan so that was weird because as you say there's been numerous games now where they've each other and they've always been tight um but yeah it was it was a surprise but equally you know I actually think results like this can be quite like confronting give you a kick up the arse remind you that you know you're not infallible everything's not always going to go your way you know and the good thing is in a tournament England seemed to be a slightly different piece I don't know how they pull it out sometimes but they have this belief and that just wasn't something that seem to be apparent in that game.

9:06Chloe: And it's not always, and this is the thing, like, you know, I say this all the time, I'm not one to get totally freaked out by a result like that. I do feel a lot of people have been waiting for a result like this so they can feel vindicated. I told you you were shit. You know, that kind of, I've seen tweets about England weren't even that good since Euro 2022. They just like, you know, they weren't even good in the World Cup. They just got to the final. And then 2025, they weren't even in front for five minutes in the knockout games. And that was just like luck, you know. So this kind of stuff, there's this kind of feeling of people being like finally there's been a battering we knew it but for me one game doesn't you know isn't an indictment on a team or on a you know a journey to a World Cup etc I think Spain played the game perfectly they were so confident they were at home you know they just looked like they were having fun England was the complete opposite and like I said you're going to have games like that and the main thing is you use that fuel you use that disappointment to be like okay this is a wake up call that we needed

10:04Rachel: it stops here

10:05Chloe: yeah and I think you know actually there's a bloody long gap now till the next international break so maybe either that's an opportunity to kind of put that to bed and you know go again and refresh yourself or maybe you know it depends you know that momentum is always interesting do you want to go again straight away or do you want to have that gap you know

10:22Rachel: after the Spain game Wiegmann Wiegmann Wiegmann obviously reflected quite heavily on the loss he said first of all what I'm trying to do now is think what caused this we have to see what really went wrong of course I'm frustrated and disappointed, but so are the players. This hurts because we have lost a couple of times, but not with such a big score. It's obviously not a great defeat for Serena, but when you look at the longevity of her record and the wins that she's had under her belt with the Lionesses, the record speaks for itself. What I've been quite, I think it's been quite tempered, because I was expecting everyone to go, oh, Serena, I'm not sure if I've got faith in her leadership anymore, etc.

10:51Chloe: A lot of the media was quite temperate.

10:53Rachel: But they were quite balanced about the whole thing. There wasn't a sense of panic that we normally see around the discussions around, you know, has Serena lost the dressing room? Has she fallen off her perch, etc., etc. But actually, it was quite, OK, yeah, that wasn't great.

11:05Chloe: There was a lot of context, which was, you know, often missing. I mean, she's got a 70 % win rate with England still.

11:12Rachel: You can't deny the stats. And also off the back of that, obviously, let's talk now about the England-Ukraine game. Because that did feel like, yes, England were expected to win. And it was important that they got that win and bounced back so quickly, picked themselves up and kind of understood the assignment, which is essentially, yes, there wasn't a likelihood that they were then going to qualify because it was expected that Spain were going to win their game. But at the same time, it was a very, I don't know, it felt a bit flat, I think, this game. I mean, obviously you caught a lot of it. You were at the game.

11:42Rachel: But yeah, how did you kind of think it went? It was a little bit like, it was a bog standard, get the job done type of game.

11:50Chloe: Last game of the season. Yeah. You know, and it reminded me of, do you remember after Euro 2022 when England won? And then they kind of went on this kind of patchy run against some teams. and like they just didn't seem to be able to get themselves up for the games. Do you know that kind of like real passion and fight where they're kind of talking to each other on the pitch and they're geeing each other up. It was quite flat and kind of understandable in my opinion. Anyway, you just, you know, you need to get a win. You're likely going to get a win. You're still not going to get through to the World Cup directly.

12:20Chloe: You kind of know pretty much what the outcome is going to be. And you know, it's going to be one of those games where you're going to have to do a lot of unpicking because Ukraine were very deep. Ukraine were completely in a low block and making it really difficult to find space. Yeah, and like that happens. There's not some like magic key to kind of, you know, unlock something like that. Yeah, yeah. So they're not going to get necessarily drawn out, you know, to be brought all the way up the pitch so you can try and do a quick counter. That happened the odd time. But like, realistically, that's kind of how I expected the game to go.

12:50Chloe: People were desperate for changes. There were changes. You know, Laura Blink-Kilda Brown got a good bit of time. would be really good to see. Really good game. You know, and it's good to see. She's very Jess Park-esque. Yes, yes. Little, like, small kind of footwork

13:03Rachel: that gets in the pockets, finds the space. I'm really loving seeing her develop. I mean, she was so incredible for the FA Cup final and I feel like she's actually starting to find her feet a little bit now and get more confidence in the England set-up too.

13:15Chloe: One of my favourite moments was I was shooting Alex and Beth, Alex setting up for this free kick and she called Beth over and had a little bit of a discussion. I could see Alex being like, I think you should go for this one. And Beth was a bit like, are you sure? And I was like, yeah, yeah, I think you should go for this one. And then Beth steps up and takes this unbelievable free kick. And what I hadn't seen until I saw the replay was that Alex was next to the wall and then pulled herself completely away, making a massive gap. So not only did she say, you take this, she also then created the space for Beth to put the ball into.

13:43Chloe: And then, you know, they had a lovely kind of celebration afterwards. Beth picked her up afterwards. I just thought that was a really nice moment in that game. And Beth Mead got her 40th goal, was it? Yes. So she's up in the top five, joint top fifth goal scorer. Also, big shout out to Jess Carter, who got her third ever England goal. So nonchalant about it as well. She headed in and was just like, yeah, whatever. It kind of hit the side of her head and it was like a great angle because obviously it wrong-footed the keeper who was coming up to the back post and it went obviously into the near post.

14:09But yeah, she kind of looked a bit kind of meh. I was like, give us a celebration. Come on. I was like, Jess, they don't happen often for you. Obviously, you being back there. But at the same time, when it does happen, let's bloody go. Give me some of that, yeah, yeah.

14:21Rachel: Yeah, I think what was obviously being fed through as well in the game was what was happening in the other fixture with Spain and Iceland. Spain won that 6-1. That was to be expected. I think there was probably a bit of an expectation then that this wasn't going to be the game that was going to actually save England's chances of qualifying automatically. This obviously now means England finished second. I won't have to go through the playoffs in the autumn. In terms of the playoffs, so this will be over two legs in October. England will face one of the following sides from League C. So that will be Lithuania, Kosovo, Hungary, Greece, Romania, Belarus, Croatia or Kazakhstan.

14:56Chloe: Can I make a punt? Go on. I really hope it's either Croatia or Greece. I think it's going to be either Belarus or Kazakhstan. Is this just so you can predict where you want to have your next holiday? I'll tell you where I don't want to have my next holiday. It's the last two I said. I've been there. I've done it. I've got the t-shirt.

15:10Rachel: Yeah.

15:11Chloe: I don't want to do it again. Never again. I feel like because of that, that's likely where it's going to be. 100%. Kazakhstan was a long old way to go. Where is Kazakhstan? It's over kind of towards east. Right. Yeah. well it's huge it's like the ninth biggest country in the world by the way it's quite beautiful it's the biggest landlocked country in the world in case you're wondering I learnt all this when I was there thank you for that mate I really appreciate it

15:32Rachel: I'll bring it up again

15:32Chloe: when England draw them

15:33Rachel: additional info England are going to be seeded for the playoff draw on the 18th of June so watch this space we've got a really good question in from NS1910 on Instagram who's asked after this latest World Cup break who do you think could be a surprise selection for the Lionesses before the World Cup

15:50Chloe: I was chatting about this before we started recording I find these questions quite hard at this stage you know if you ask this in maybe a january time and we've had a couple of months of a league and you go oh this player is really shining you know there's been a couple of games here this could be a good opportunity for them it's kind of hard to do that now i also don't want to jinx anyone um but let's say chloe sorry maybe she could be there that was gonna be mine come on uh that's so annoying um it's a toughie because there's so many youngsters

16:18Rachel: now who are kind of breaking through and kind of getting their little moments i'm surprised i mean fred godfrey i think is going to be in and around um the selection i think like obviously blinkilda brown i think is is pretty much confirmed now i'd say bar anything crazy happening um it's

16:34Chloe: funny isn't it because there's this the constant narrative especially when they don't play well that it's the same players the same players and she doesn't bring through new players and like we've had this whole conversation about the amount of players who've come through the under 23 squad since Fiegemann came in. Literally. Who kind of argued for that squad to have that integration. So there's been a huge amount of players who've come through. The issue is that we've had, and I've said this before, is that because we've had these competitions back to back to back, you feel like you've seen a lot of a player when actually a lot of these players are still pretty much in there.

17:03Chloe: Alessi Russo's 27. You know, people act like some of these players are like way older than they actually are because they've been in and around the squad for a while. Lauren Hemp, 25. Stanway. Do you know what I mean? Quite young too. So it's, you know, there have been young players coming through. You look at Freya Godfrey. You know, I would have liked to have seen Agui Beaver-Jones on the bench for the Spain game. Jess Park is young. You know, Laura Blink-Hilda Brown, Lucia Kendall. Michelle Adjumang when she's back. Michelle Adjumang, no doubt, when she's back fifth.

17:30Rachel: Jess Naz in and around it. Yeah.

17:32Chloe: It's the defending areas, I think, is the main area for England. Less so the central defenders. There's plenty of them, but the fullback positions, I think, are the main ones.

17:41Rachel: I reckon it's going to be, I think we're actually going to see quite a lot of transition for the World Cup.

17:44Chloe: squad next year to be honest um and i think what's been difficult is the way the nation's league has been such a pain-in-the-arse qualification way and it's always just watching the same teams do the same thing over and over but apparently they're supposed to help the teams lower down um i think what's annoying is then you find that when england do have the odd occasional friendly they're not really that willing to go and travel this is something sophie's been discussing like they tend to do a lot of these friendlies at home you know they're going to get good crowds in it's good commercial opportunity etc but they're then lacking the the moments where they go away somewhere where they're in a bit more of an uncomfortable situation and they need to do that a bit more because I think that's where you're seeing them not brilliant away sometimes their form isn't always great when they're away different at a major tournament you've got your base you've got your home away from home but like they need to make themselves a little bit more uncomfortable sometimes I think they've got it too good I yeah was that you think that's fair to say well yeah in a way but it's a weird one because it's almost like you're fighting for like better of conditions and best of it but also at the same time yes i mean from a comfort kind of nations other countries point of view in terms of you don't know this hotel you've not been here before like everything's not going to be you know like your home if you like you know you need to be the away team where you're not the priority for that game do you know what i mean like and just you know push yourself make yourselves a little bit uncomfortable sometimes because that's when you end up in a game where you're playing in spain and you need to get a win and you're away you need to be comfortable being uncomfortable in that respect i'm thinking of all those like corporate away days You know, you have like people who fall back on each other and things like that.

19:11A trust circle. Yeah, get them out of their comfort zone, you know.

19:14Rachel: Think outside the box, that kind of thing. Yeah, definitely. I'll pose that to Serena Vigman next time I don't see her. Right, let's talk about your team then. Go on. Let's talk about your bloody team. France 1-0. Do you know what?

19:27Chloe: I was convinced if Ireland had won, you'd have been on the Ireland bandwagon, let me tell you. No, I wouldn't. Absolutely. Why would I? Because it was a team that won and went straight to the World Cup. That only applies to domestic. Sure. Okay? I can't support two nations. I have no affiliation to Irishness. Like Jamaica, maybe. What was it you said when I mentioned about coming back from Dublin? What did I say?

19:47Rachel: You came back from my home. It felt like home for a while. Everyone was very hospitable. That's what I meant. Ireland missed out on automatic qualification. They finished third in their group after the Netherlands win over Poland. This was kind of a bit of a winner-takes-all game.

20:03Chloe: Incredible. Who bloody would have thought that we'd have been in our position? Unbelievable performance. they'd already made history by winning two games as a pot four team in Ligue 1 no team was being promoted had ever won four games two games let alone three games you know and the fact that they were in with this opportunity and they didn't make it easy for France I know a lot of the players and Carla felt disappointed about the first half but it's exactly how I thought Ireland were going to come out I thought they were going to come out sit back park the bus for 45 minutes frustrate France stay in the game and then throw the kitchen sink at them and that's absolutely what they did and they're raging because they definitely deserved a goal out of it.

20:40Rachel: No, completely fair. I think Ireland did improve after the break. They obviously missed a couple of big chances. The Abbey Larkin, Constance chance, Constance making the big save in 15 minutes from time. I mean, did you feel like there was actually a point in, I know obviously Melvin got the goal before half-time.

20:55Chloe: What a goal, by the way.

20:57Rachel: Let's briefly pause for that, to be fair.

20:59Chloe: She's our nemesis for Ireland. That's her third goal against us. She does not like you guys. I want to not like her. The assassin of the Irish people. I want to not like her. and it's really hard because she's lovely and she scores very good goals but damn you. It was beautiful. It was absolutely beautiful.

21:13Rachel: Nothing Courtney Brasen could do. Hit the crossbar. Like what was she going to do about it? Oh 100 % and it was so close that it's just the reaction time was absolutely minimal if it existed at all but did you feel like there was the second half was such a big improvement from Ireland that you thought they were going to get back into the game at least kind of level things.

21:28Chloe: Yeah I think had we gotten a goal especially when France went down to 10 I thought if we got a goal then they know how to put the pressure on and France would have wobbled. France are a team that under pressure don't always perform, let's be real. You know, you look at them in major tournaments. You know, they faced Germany who were down to 10 for ages and they still lost the game. So, yeah, I think had Ireland gotten a goal, we definitely could have put them under a huge amount of pressure. And Carla absolutely threw everything at it, I think, as well. And I think they can be very proud of that.

21:55Chloe: What they need to be able to do now is sustain that kind of confidence and not let their heads drop too much. Because they're now seeded going into these playoffs. Their opponents are the same potential opponents that England could face. And arguably they should be able to at least win that two-legged playoff and then see where they get to in the second one. But they need to take these performances and be able to... The important thing for me was the two wins against Poland. It's all well and good turning up against the big teams and maybe pulling off something. But the consistency in their performances throughout this qualifying group, the France and Netherlands game where they narrowly lost, that's the most important thing is that they've consistently played now at that level and improved and improved.

22:31Chloe: So it's maintaining that now for the playoffs.

22:33Rachel: Obviously, I think you've thrown quite a lot of importance on Carla Ward and the impact that she's made with the Irish squad? I mean, what would you say is like the tangible difference that you've really noticed since she took the reins? Because for me, it feels like it's consistency that I've seen. They've not always got the results off the back of it, but now it's started to feel really unfair. They've not got the results. And it's just a case of they didn't take this chance or actually just the other side got one last-ditch attempt in the last like 95th minute or whatever it is. But I feel like there has been a shift in it.

22:58Rachel: I'm struggling to put my finger on what it is, but there has been a shift and a step up.

23:01Chloe: I think her player management is very good. it's one of her like highest kind of you know Emma Hayes was always very good at player management and I think she's being able to get the best out of a lot of players you know a lot of the time we'd always talk about your Katie McCabe's and your Denise O'Sullivan's understandably but so many players are stepping up now Marissa Sheeva's unbelievable under Carla Ward Caitlin Hayes incredible Chloe Mistake you know Aoife Mannion there's so many names you can pull out Brosnan's amazing

23:28Rachel: but I feel like she steps up again out of international Emily Murphy Abby Larkin

23:32Chloe: like Kira Caruso that these they're all leveling up you know and I do think a lot of that is their game time and they're playing more football which is really important but they've always had the squad kind of togetherness and I think Ireland have always played above themselves anyway but I think we're actually able to rely a lot more on a lot more players just our players are getting better and you know to beat the Dutch without Denise O'Sullivan and Emily Murphy tells you everything you need to know and I think whatever she's however she's able to get the best out of these players she's absolutely doing that and we're doing things we wouldn't normally do the Dutch game you know could have settled for a draw no it went 2-2 and she threw on all of her forwards like we wouldn't necessarily do that in the past so that's another thing it's that belief that level of we're going out to win games not to just try and be in them and that's just the next level so you know it's all been built on things that have gone before but I just think that some of these players under Carla just seem to be really flourishing well I think it's going to be

24:26Rachel: something we'll obviously see a lot more of to be honest especially going into the next rounds of these qualifying games the next set of fixtures

24:33Chloe: I hate two-legged games I just feel like the first one's pointless because everyone's really cagey in the first one you're afraid to lose it in the first one so nothing really happens until the second one you think it should be pure knockout neutral ground one game knockout it'll make it a little bit spite I mean the jeopardy's high I suppose

24:50Rachel: we will wait and see for those fixtures which we at least have a few months just to rest and recover before our next round of international games which would be nice for you. I think you need a break. Coming up after this, one of the biggest stars in the world is going to London City Lionesses.

25:07Chloe: We think.

25:21Welly, well, well. Welly, well, well. Who else but Alexia Puteas to London City. Multiple sources are reporting that after 14 years at Barcelona, Alexia is going to agree or has agreed personal terms with London City Lionesses. Let's just quickly reacquaint ourselves with what Puteas has actually achieved in the game thus far and what she, the experience and the depth of experience that she'll be taking to Bromley. Ten Liga F titles, four Champions League titles, one World Cup and two Ballon d 'Ors. which is alright it is what it is you know it is what it is it's reported that we say I said not want to join a team that could be direct rivals to Barcelona this is such a

26:10Chloe: backhanded compliment to London City you're shit enough for me to join I don't feel like you're ever going to challenge my old team it's such a like rinse but what do we think I choose you because you're crap enough that's what it kind of sounds like it is a little bit of a a slight dig isn't it you will never challenge Barcelona while I'm here. But it's a weird thing to say, given that Michelle Kang's pure ambition, what she's been quite vocal about, is the fact that she does want to get to the Champions League and she wants London City to kind of be up across, you know, the top echelons of the WSL, essentially.

26:41So, and that's the ambition, obviously, of bringing in a player like Alexi Bouteyes, is to help get them there. So this is a club that currently sits six in the WSL. That was hard to say, wasn't it?

26:51Chloe: That was almost as bad as Frida Lina Rolfo. Don't talk to me about that name. I'm just waiting for the World Cup to run around. I'm going to have to get practicing that again. And then obviously they've had the new performance campus that's being built. And it's obviously set to be one of the most advanced

27:05Rachel: women's football training facilities in the world.

27:07Chloe: When it's built, yeah.

27:08Rachel: When it's eventually built.

27:13Bromley, you don't see the attraction? Well, it was weird enough seeing her back in like February, March at the Games. That's so funny. And I lost my mind because I was about two feet away from her and they were serving like teas and coffees and like sandwiches. And there's Alexi Putea as queen of football. just in and around Frumley. Do you think she came and went, yes, this is it.

27:32Chloe: This looks great. I would like to play here. I want more of this. Man, sorry. For all the football clubs out there, can you start getting good tea? PG Tips, stop it. Let it go. Let it go. Alexi Puteas, let's get back to the little things. Get Alexi Puteas some Yorkshire tea. If you're not going to do Barry's, it's Irish, I get it. Get her some Yorkshire tea so she can appreciate it. What's happened? Have I woken up in topsy-turvy land? Because this is just such a massive and significant thing to have happened in women's football. I can't wrap my head around it. We've got a really good question from the Notorious Dingo on Discord.

28:01God, we found all the tongue twisters for you today. Thank you. How big a get for the WSL is Alexis Piteaus? And where does this signing rank amongst other international superstars who've come to play in Britain? The biggest. 100%. The end. Yeah, like full stop. Next question almost. This is frigging huge. This would be, I think the only thing that could possibly match it was when we were talking about Trinity Rodman coming over to Chelsea. see but even that was a massive move because she's a massive player but this is a massive player coming to a what is essentially a WSL average club at present who've done really well and have done very well in the you know but at present they're an average WSL club what the frig because obviously Alexi Pisaes is also in a really incredible stage in her life she's still at her peak she is one of the best players in the world bringing her over is a massive commercial move

28:55Rachel: not only for London City Lionesses, but also for the WSL in terms of like the eyes and attention that she's obviously going to draw to the game and getting fans into the stadium and wanting to see her play, et cetera, et cetera. But at the same time, this is a player who's also very serious about her career and is looking to obviously be a part of Brazil 2027. This is a massive risk. Just a gamble. Why you think she might not get played?

29:15Chloe: No, but I just think like you, I rate it. I rate a player who has won everything. You know, I mean, Pranilla Harder is not the same in terms of she hasn't won champions league ballon d 'or etc but she was someone who would be at a club won everything and went i want to go challenge myself somewhere else i massively rate a player who's like how can i challenge myself i've won the champions league i've won everything with um barthelona you know won a world cup won ballon doors how can i challenge myself like hats off to you because it is going to be a challenge and i i think she's probably going to do an unbelievable job and she's going to pull in some serious crowds as well i you also have to kind of because obviously Alexia is used to playing a certain way she's used to a certain level of play she's surrounded by

29:57Rachel: the Barcelona players who are also Ballon d 'Or winners have won World Cups and European trophies and the rest of it I'm not saying and this is absolutely no discredit to the current squad that London City Lionesses have because they do have some really good players there yeah but they're not Barcelona but they're not Barcelona so it's going to take a long time I think for Alexia to bed into this style of football and to integrate herself into the club I also think you can't just have one stellar level player who is amongst really good players like you need to also bolster the squad with other players so we were also seeing kind of you know hints of rumors that you know map leon might be coming over um also an agreement on personal terms with uh mary erps as well but i i just wonder because obviously to get the best out of a player and to make sure they're in the best position to be looked upon favorably for the world cup squad and i'd be absolutely freaking shocked if she wasn't in the squad don't don't get me wrong she's the advantage is there for her but at the same time she still has to have a good season and continue to be on the radar and to continue to perform with Spain.

30:54She won't play in Champions League. Yeah, but... Do you know what I mean? Listen, I know. I'm trying not to be... I'm trying not to be offensive. Michelle said she...

31:02Chloe: They want... You know, she wanted them to play a more Spanish style.

31:05Rachel: Yeah.

31:06Chloe: Okay. So, they've got five players there already from Spain. Spanish coach. Yeah. You know, so a little bit more... Someone like that in the middle. Pulling the strings. Stick a tack of football. Potentially. Yeah. Teams won't know what to do with them. I can't... You know, it's really hard to just actually believe it, isn't it? It's like, I just, the amount of people that are going to flood down to that first London City Lions game, first game of the season. I'll be there. Let's act the match here. Let's act the match here because I need to see it in person. There you go, Finn. We're doing it again.

31:32Chloe: We're saying it on record and now it has to happen. Sozzles. I just want to see. Went so smoothly last time. Yeah. I just want to see what she brings to the squad because I can't place, like, her and Freya Godfrey. I just. Sounds perfect. Sounds great. Mary Epps at the back. get up Alexia for God's sake for fuck's sake mark your player I just I can't I don't know I'm losing my mind it is one of them though when I remember when Alex Morgan came and I was pitch side at the Hive shooting her and you do for a minute just be like that's Alex Morgan just there I wouldn't but you can reach out and touch her she's so close you're just like this is mental it's going to be like that when Alexia Bateas is in the Chigwell construction stadium or you know places like that to be fair Bromley and she'll be like there she is right there that's mad maybe she'll do a Formiga 42 still playing What do we think a player like Alexi Puteas is going to bring to London City because at the moment they've kind of found a bit of consistency they're not a bad side they have done super super well in their debut season they've also had to deal with a bit of turbulence with the manager leaving

32:37Rachel: integrating a lot of new players into the squad so they are well rehearsed in having to transition very quickly obviously they've got the massive backing of someone like Michelle Kang who's invested in the stadiums and the training centre and obviously wants to take the team forward and is very ambitious with the clubs that she has. Where do we think Alexi Puteus fits into the ambition of London City and how do we think she's actually going to integrate? Do we think it's going to go well or do you have any concerns? I don't have any concerns.

33:02Chloe: I think it'll be a challenge for her. But I think she's one of the best players in the world. So she will rise to that challenge. What do you think she'll find challenging? I guess developing those relationships. You know, she's been in that Barcelona squad for a long time. She's used to playing with players in and around her and has got some really good relationships cemented. So it'll probably take a little while just to build those relationships. But, you know, she didn't win the Ballon d 'Or that many times for no reason. Like she is unbelievable. She'll bring quality experience, you know, that winning mentality.

33:28Chloe: And I think she'll be an unbelievable character in the dressing room as well, especially for the youngsters. A lot of players are going to learn from her. Unbelievable if they actually manage to get this over the line. It's the professionalism I think that she's also going to bring to the squad. I would be absolutely shitting myself if I was still at a club and they said Alexi Puteus is going to sign

33:48Rachel: because I think it helps you raise the bar. It sets a standard that you've never seen before in terms of the extra 1 % that you'll see Alexi Puteus doing after training to, I don't know, to hone in on those free kicks or the strikes that she does or the pass placement or whatever it is. Like, I think the squad will be encouraged to step up with her to meet that standard. Obviously, it creates a lot of pressure for the players.

34:11Chloe: Yeah, but she's one of those players who thinks like one or two moves ahead, you know, two or three moves ahead and that pulls other players around you to be quicker and faster and sharper and, you know, I think it could be incredible. Mental. Let's go to that game. I need to see it. I just need, I just need to see it. Like I just, I do what she won't start. Yeah, could you imagine he does an Alex Morgan that does like 30 seconds on the pitch and then it's like, this is enough for me. I'm off home again. Yeah, let's go. Let's bloody well go. Coming up after this, we're tackling the subject of purpose-built stadiums in the women's game.

34:48Sarah, hello. It is such a pleasure to have you on the pod. Only feels like, what, a few weeks ago that I first met you with Elaph. Next to, obviously, who else but Chris Paros. We were at the Charlton game wondering whether they were going to make promotion and they did on that glorious day. You're a massive penalty fan. I love penalties. I think every game should end in penalties. Oh my God, what a game for you that was. It was fantastic. What did you think of the day? I thought the day was fantastic. The whole experience outside the stadium, inside the stadium. The match was long, but it ended in penalties.

35:24So I genuinely couldn't. I love you.

35:26Chloe: You were probably the only one there just going, I really hope this goes to penalties. And the rest of us were like, I really hope it doesn't go to penalties. But poor Chris Parros sat next to me. I must have driven her insane. Just like, this is going to penalties. I just want a goal. I just want to see a ball hit the back of the net. That's all I want. I don't care whether it's an exercise, I don't care who wins now I just want something to happen it just felt like such a cagey game but yeah congratulations to Charlton it was obviously such a big moment for the club and then they're your local club as well so you get to see them take on the likes of Arsenal and Man City and Chelsea yeah I'm going to go along next year I'm looking forward to it obviously you're a massive women's football fan

36:04Rachel: but crucially you're really deeply involved in the infrastructure around women's football so I'd love it if you could tell us a little bit more about what you do and how your work has kind of changed in in recent years too yeah sure so I'm actually a lawyer I specialize in design and construction and I have a particular specialism in sporting projects so I've acted for Premier League football clubs I acted for Leicester City we built their 100 million pound training ground which is now the most expensive training ground in League One what an accolade for your CV that's incredible everyone's welcome um but i've sort of turned my attention in in recent years to training grounds and stadia that's built specifically for the women's game and the market that follows the women's game more importantly because i think it's well you see with brighton's plans at the moment which i think are fantastic there's a real market there and a move towards stadiums that are purpose-built for the women's game and the audience that attracts

36:59Chloe: can you give our listeners maybe an idea of like what the main differences would be between a purpose-built stadium for the women's game versus the men's game? Yeah, sure. So I'll kind of think about it right. So I'm going to be a bit stereotypical here, but imagine you're going to watch a men's game. What's the rest of the audience made up of? It's mostly individual blokes, but in groups. So they'll probably go to the pub, have a few pints, go to the game. They go through the turnstile, have a couple more pints, maybe a pie, go and stand in a segregated area and shout and sing. Have a great time.

37:33but then you go to a women's game and it's a dad with four kids or it's a group of kids together or it's a group of women. It's a very different makeup. So imagine you're that dad with those four kids. You're going into the stadium. You've got to take those kids individually through a single turnstile and that's quite a scary experience for a kid coming in, right? I've never thought about that, to be fair. That's their first impression going into the stadium. Being in a cage, a rotating cage. Yeah, exactly. It's quite oppressive in some ways. and then they get inside in the F &B offering. So a kid doesn't want a pint, it probably doesn't want a pint.

38:08You need some child-friendly meals, family-friendly meals. I think at women's cricket games, tea and coffee outsells everything because it's parents with kids. They're not drinking alcohol. Then they go into the stadium and the fans are mixed up as they should be. There's no need to segregate fans at women's games, but the stadiums aren't really set up for that. and then if you think if you're sat there with four little kids as well the seat pitch is different it's built for sort of a 1.8 meter bloke so that the actual size of the seat and the the site over the person in front of you so if you're a four-year-old kid you're bouncing up and down on the seat and you can't really see in it and it makes a bit of a difference at half time there's not really that many offerings for kids of what they can do in the concourses there's no sort of family-friendly areas.

38:56How does a dad take four kids to the bathroom when most of the bathrooms are designed for blokes going on their own? The differences just keep coming. So if you could design a stadium now that is purpose-built for that women's football crowd, I think it'd be just so different. All of these elements, we're kind of cramming in an audience that's not built for the stadia that we're using. It's different and we can approach it from a different perspective, which is what Brighton are looking at, actually. I don't know if you've seen their plans that they've submitted. And they're quite far ahead. I think it's quite revolutionary.

39:31Even the size of the stadium, for example. So if Brighton are playing at Crawley, is that sort of 3 ,000? Or if they're playing at the Amex, it's 27. So they've sort of submitted plans for 10 ,000 with the hope that that would be the crowd that they're attracting. But then with the possibility to expand the stadia as the game grows and grows. So I think 10 ,000 is probably about the right size at the moment. but one of the crucial factors for this is investment so it's not cheap to build football stadia so I think it's great that Brighton are invested in it but can all the clubs afford to do that so one possibility that is sort of being kicked around is a multi-club stadium so it's nobody's home exactly although I'd argue like Tottenham play at Leighton Orient so they're not playing at home week in week out in any event but if you built a purpose-built stadium for the women's game that features all of the design aspects and the needs for both both the fans and the players actually um you could then let that stadium to the clubs i quite like the multi club stadium i don't know how you feel about that that makes me really uncomfortable does it really it does so it's a bit marmite i think it's i love i've never heard that concept before so that that is taking a little bit of thought process as you were speaking there to kind of think about how i'd feel about essentially what's a neutral ground that's just decorated for the day i think um what

40:53Rachel: the wsl definitely sort of is it seems to be struggling with i think is the loyalty in these sort of um the passionate fan base that's distributed to to one club specifically because a lot of the fan base either support multiple clubs or or a player just going to the play like to go and see the good players or whatever it is and i don't know how much a neutral ground would essentially be able to kind of foster that sense of this is our home this is our fortress this is our place like no one's going to beat us here type mentality if it becomes a more neutral space but

41:20Chloe: also for the existing fans of a club already for sure i find they would not be very i don't i can't imagine them being happy going to a neutral ground that they would share with their rivals

41:29Rachel: and then there's also the locality of the fan bases because you know you've got your you know your south like your you know southwest and your chelsea fans you know your north london kind of derbies and like the the thing that creates and now you've got charton and london city yeah but i I do think, I mean, that the women's, it's an interesting one because the WSL club, there are so many London WSL clubs now, increasing two more from next season, that they're all fighting for this same fan base. Instead of trying to create these different, very small pockets of fans, if you could bring fans more together and create a kind of, I don't know, more of a fan base of...

42:01It's a football experience as opposed to...

42:03Rachel: Yeah, which is kind of where women's football fandom is headed. Some. Yeah, some. You don't like it, do you? No, I just feel like it just,

42:10Chloe: it almost infantilizes women's football a little bit by assuming people just want to go and have a day out like people are hardcore fans of their clubs and that is an element that is also going to be fought because it's still relatively young isn't it so like while we can have some really great data on the demographics of people following the women's game it's still growing and there's still a lot more and many more people that we want to talk to and want to and like so yeah like I think making it areas more family friendly absolutely but you are going to have fans who say want to be in their own section in their own stadium which could also be facilitated in a stadium a bit better yeah and you know i think to some of the stadia i went to in america for the nw cell and some of them have their their own stadiums and they are in kansas city car yes oh that was on my list because that's the only really purpose-built stadium isn't it yeah but some of them are just a bit i don't know that they just do sports better in america in terms of how they think about so many different elements and the San Diego Wave Stadium stands out for me just in terms of the things that are on offer and the comfort of the stadium and you know getting your shirt printed in the grounds you can literally look at the pitch while it's being printed stuff like that that's just a lot of stuff is being thought about you know before they built the stadium as opposed to what some clubs are trying to do is kind of shoehorn it in now so I like the concept of being able to go yeah let's make it more user-friendly for a wider demographic of people because i think a lot of the stadiums that are built now are just for the men's fans if you like yeah as opposed to saying how can we get as many different types of people into this stadium to watch the game definitely designed for the men's game and the men's fan base but i it's a valid point you make you can't lose that hardcore fan base who go for the badge who go week in week out um and and the concept is not to dismiss that side of of the fan base at all uh rather to enhance it and sort of build on it i guess but how how that identity is is one of the points that needs to be really considered with a neutral ground absolutely i like the idea of digital digital boards like digital branding i don't know why more grounds don't do that anyway but then does that

44:14Rachel: become a kind of badging exercise in a way if you know i mean even if it's for your own stadium oh

44:19Chloe: I just think we need to be more digital with stuff like that.

44:23Rachel: But when you're sort of, I mean, we've obviously just debated this ourselves, I suppose. So there's so many different takes on this topic. What are the WSL clubs kind of saying? Is this something that's been approached? Have you spoken to them about it? I've spoken to some people at clubs unofficially. And there is a real sort of divide. And I've spoken with some ex-players who are interested on your view on this. So I was speaking to an ex-player who said, we fought for so long to get equality. Now you're putting it over here and it's not equal. and you're pointing out how different it is. And that's what we've been fighting against for years.

44:52But my argument is kind of, it is different, I think. For sure. And we should celebrate that difference. Whilst not losing the battle that's been won to get it to level up with the men's game, but it is a different product in my view. I'm talking in a really commercial way about it. I am a football fan, but it is a different product. So commercially, it should be approached slightly differently is my perspective. Are we really on the fence about this?

45:15Chloe: Yeah, this is really... We were talking about it a couple of weeks ago about you know the purpose-built stadia and you were saying like they need to be more accessible and stuff like that and I was like shouldn't all stadia shouldn't that be something all stadia strive to be is accessible for everyone and an area that like you know I know for the Premier League there's a lot less ceiling left there right like they're pretty much touching the ceiling in terms of how much further they can grow but like there probably are quite a lot of people who don't watch men's football that might be interested in could potentially be you know capitalized on and shouldn't their stadia be better developed for more people for who they are yeah the the leagues looked at it so the league have produced this document um there was a team of 50 put it together and i saw hannah buckley present a stadium development conference because i'm quite geeky and go to things like that um she said and she spoke about it in december and at that point it had been downloaded 48 million times across the world so there's there's interest in this and this looks at it from several different aspects and it comes at it from the hardcore fan base it comes at it from the player perspective um the player perspective i think is quite interesting if they're playing in that sort of standard league two men's ground there isn't enough cubicles for all of the players to use the bathroom at half time if they need to just little simple things like that um and this addresses it from aspects from architecture from media for example so the difference in media needs for a women's game and a men's game a typical WSL match you've got eight tv cameras a men's premier league game you've got 50 they the sight of those everything needs to be thought about really the policing the stewarding another point that needs to be looked at is safe access routes in and out of the stadiums and they don't always exist in the stadiums that are the WSL and WSL 2 games are being held in that safe route into the stadium from the train station or from where you've parked your car.

47:10Sad fact, women and girls need that. And so that could be implemented as well.

47:16Chloe: I'd like to think that future stadia, whether it be for a men's team, it really should just be for a club, is considering all of this stuff regardless. Yeah, I think they are. I like the idea of a stadium being built in a gender neutral way, if that makes sense. So your men's team and your women's team can both play in it. I think the difference at the moment is the size of the audience turning up week in, week out. so you're going to sell 60 ,000 tickets in the Premier League. Yes, Arsenal did it against Man U, wasn't it, a couple of years ago? But potentially aren't going to do that week in, week out.

47:47Chloe: Their average was like 42 ,000 last season. Weren't they like 15th or something in the most attended clubs? It was absolutely fantastic. They're propping the rest of the league up quite significantly. Yeah, but there's also evidence that it can be done. It can be done if the right investment is there, I think, with your fan engagement and the rest of it. Just in terms of some of the factors that we've considered with the stadia, how do we apply the same principles to training centres? because obviously we've had some really good news

48:08Rachel: about the Man City Training Centre just opening and being a bespoke place. You know, I've played in the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium, their Tottenham Hotspur training ground, which had this gorgeous new facility, but it was just before we got promoted. So we weren't a part of the decisions that were made around how that training centre looked. Is that something that you also kind of think needs to be adapted before we even get onto where the players play on a performance level? Yes, I think it does. And clubs are looking at it. So London City looking at it. I know Tottenham have, Man City have, United made quite a big, significant investment into their women's training ground at Carrington before the men then took it over for a bit whilst the men's bit was done up.

48:47But anyway. Not United. Someone like them. No comment. Yeah, I think it does. Which is the most important? That's an interesting debate as well, isn't it? So you've got to have quality facilities to attract the right players. is that why London City are attracting the type of player they're attracting at the moment? It's all Bill Jett. Yeah, but it's coming. When?

49:10Chloe: At 32, we're getting into Alexi Boutet as we spoke about her. You're like, wait for that ground to be built to hope we're still playing. I remember, I told you this, I remember when I was at Spurs and it was the rumours of Alex Morgan coming over and at the time we were playing at, what do you call it? Barnet. Barnet. And Alex Morgan was sold a dream that we were going to play. It was really like high performance, like Tottenham Hotspur trading centre and then she turns up and barn in. Anyone could have just watched her go and play and it's just like I have visions of the same thing happening for Alexia.

49:39Chloe: This is what we're going to build. It's not there yet. But if you build it then they will come. Put it the other way around. If you come then we'll build it. Put these VR goggles on and play in this. So anyway we've gone on a tangent here. Yeah I think the quality training facilities need to be there. A recent event we had Paul Barber was speaking about when his women's team have to use the same gym as the men's and all the equipment set up for a six foot four bloke and it's a five foot three woman coming in to use it and how long it takes just to do simple things like change the weights around um simple things like that so the facilities need to be there for the players to improve and the game to improve but i think for the game to improve we need more bums on seats we need more fan engagement and so the stadium is i in my view i think more important i think because it's such an important revenue driver as well

50:25Rachel: i mean you look at the deloitte money league report and that is the one bit like the the the attendances this year have been down yeah uh from last year not significantly down but they are they're not great and i think a lot of that comes to do with the fan experience and how poor it is like i've been to a couple of the west ham games and their stadium just yeah it's not set up for a great fan experience i was there for the man city game yeah it's like a hot dog van that sort of sells only one type of thing like accessibility for even like disabled fans is quite poor it's not in a great location in terms of accessibility it's you know even from the media perspective i was on a scaffolding thing that had absolutely no support around looks like it could blow over with a strong gusts yeah so you didn't stop going on about that yeah well i'm probably used to sort of hospitality yeah with a bottle so cushion seats yeah it was it was a slightly different vibe um talking about the future of what the wsl could look like i suppose in five years if you could if we take out investment if we take out everything else like the if we just had a a shopping list of kind of how the wsl and the stadia would look like what would that what would that look like to you i i like it's gonna be controversial i do like the idea of the neutral stadium oh no sorry all right someone's gonna sell it listen those half and half scarves will finally get bought i like it because i think it would it provides the opportunity for that full day experience um and and back to your point earlier about the the when you're when you've got bigger attendance the clubs are making more money how they split that money if you do lease the ground between the clubs and how you lease the space in the shop for the merch all of that's got to be worked out yeah but the merch offering if you're if you're taking kids for example they want a little memento of the day right that doesn't happen so much at men's games um not as much money spent on that so to build that offering up i think would be better but in five years time i'd like to see regular crowds of 20 25 000 across the league um but we've got to build something for that to come nice there you go there you go me neutral grounds it is sorry i don't know what you're getting at what's the point you're making well if all of the clubs if investment wasn't a problem each club could build their own 20 000 seat of stadium tomorrow but it costs a lot of money to do the space in london to actually host uh all these different stadiums that now need to exist and if you're going to design it differently for a more family focused audience as well you need more more stairs so you've got less seats in a row because you're dragging kids down 20 seats and you ought to be taking them nicely through 10 seats with bigger concourses as well with family like you could have fan zone stuff where you can still see the pitch so yeah you need a bigger floor plate actually i think for a women's stadia than you do small things a small one percent that i've never really thought of and me as a childless person i'm just like you know trotting off up to my hospitality box yeah yeah my little small narrow things are going through my little metal gates and not thinking anything of it but

53:13Chloe: sending text to me who's pitch side in the rain shooting the game sunburned to shit anyway on that note sir thank you so much for joining us that really has been super insightful and that's going to give me and the listeners a lot of food for thought in terms of what the next future or the future of the women's stadia looks like because I hadn't even considered any of those options so really appreciate you joining us thank you so much you're welcome thanks for having me guys that is it for the season thank you so much for joining us on another amazing season. Our fourth, Rach. Can you even cope with the fact that we've been friends this long?

53:48We have survived each other. Two states, two studios. Two studios. Yeah, it's a lot of guests in between, a lot of WSL and international drama. A massive, massive thanks to everyone who's sent us a question, downloaded an episode or just been part of the conversation, have commented. We really, really do appreciate it. We couldn't do this without you guys and we really, really appreciate and love the support that you've given us and all the guys behind the decks

54:14Chloe: well them two they've been all right what fin and bruno we've had them in the room the whole time this season as well look at them giving us a thumbs up look at them they bring us tea and coffee the lads the lads thank you so much to the lads for being behind us this entire time and doing all these amazing running orders and just being incredibly good providing caffeine yeah every single time we've come into a little bit tired or jet lagged or whatever our journeys have been and they've been an amazing, an amazing positive influence on us. I really appreciate it. But yeah, thank you so much to all tuning in.

54:42And also for the people who have come up to us at events and things like that and just said, you know, Chloe, we love that you're the personality hire. We tune in for the great insights from Rachel and you do what you can. Rachel lacks personality. Thank God you're on. Yeah, and I really love that. I love the honesty. So keep up with that as well. We'll be back with regular episodes later in the summer, but we'll be popping up with stuff on socials too. So find us on Instagram and X slash Twitter. I'm at Morgie underscore 89 Rach is at Girls on the Ball and we are at Upfront underscore pod you can also find us on YouTube at Upfront Pod see you next season Tlan!

55:33Upfront is a Stack production and part of the Acast Creator Network.