England back to their best, but a tough night for Wales | Euro 2025 #5

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2:10Rachel: Welcome to Upfront. I'm Chloe Morgan. And I'm Rachel O'Sullivan. What a performance from England! some amazing goals and great intensity and the lioness is a 4-0 win over the netherlands which puts qualification back in their control we analyze a complete performance from sazzy viggs's side against an out of sorts netherlands plus wales are all but out after a tough loss to france but there were so many positives to take away for ryan wilkinson plus the final roundup of group games begins tonight and we've got a straight shootout between finland and the host Switzerland. Rach, this could have been a completely different energy to this pod.

2:52Rachel: This could have been disaster. This could have been tears. This could have been me, you know, drinking a vodka, vodka and tonic this morning after a very heavy, heavy and disappointing night. But alas, it is not that podcast. It is one of celebration and jubilant and joy and hope and promise. It is everything I wanted to be sitting here in this weird little booth in my office talking about today. England 4-0. It was just everything I think that England fans needed and before we get stuck into the game I think a massive massive credit to England for overriding the storm I think of disappointment around that first game and you know hunkering down and focusing on themselves and having that team spirit to go out and kind of put those concerns to bed and the performance that we saw last night was assured, it was confident, it was exactly what we expect from the 9-S's and to turn that around in such a highly pressurized situation is nothing short of absolutely iconic so Rach you were obviously there tell me what the atmosphere was like I literally have to live and breathe for you at the moment because I am absolutely buzzing uh yeah I mean Christ what

4:00Chloe: a night and day team that was um and it's funny because we talked about what needed to change if anything and it was it was very much a case of it was less about the who and more about the actual just turning up of the players and they absolutely did that. I was like super nervous before this game. Had loads of work on which I liked because it meant I wasn't thinking about the fact that England could go out and what that would mean for the rest of our coverage for the rest of the tournament and how unpleasant that would be and unfun that would be to be working in that environment. So yeah, you know, got into the stadium.

4:34Chloe: Dutch fans, incredible. Did their fan march, incredible as always. and took up one end of the stadium, had their flags going, their drums. They had a big Aranyaluan sign all spelt out. I could see them all trying to like arrange the letters while we were waiting for the players to come out to make sure they'd spelt it right. And the stadium very much got in the Dutch vibes because it made me realise that like there's very few, or maybe they just don't know them, songs that you play before a match to gee up the England fans. And I was thinking like, just play any song by an English artist. But no, we had Lynx Rex.

5:11Chloe: We had the Viva Hollandia song all playing. And I was like, this feels like we're at a home Dutch game here with all the songs coming out for the Dutch.

5:19Rachel: Was it that crowded in terms of the Netherlands Continued versus the England fans? Not even. Because on the TV, it looks like a sea of orange across all four sides of the stadium.

5:26Chloe: No, it wasn't. I think that's also the colour of the chairs and stuff in the stadium. The Dutch contingency was very much at one end. we did like a Dutch end and an England end uh which were both kind of quite full and then around it was kind of mixed up you know and then of course behind the seats you've always got a contingent of each team behind the the seats including Prince William who was there um I did see that yeah yeah so a good like 22 ,000 I think or 24 ,000 maybe um at the game so nice and loud um understandably the Dutch are that bit louder but England had the drums going um I'll be honest switch a clue i had put in headphones and like listen to a podcast because i was so stressed i like nearly didn't want to watch the match i was like i just i think it was our podcast uh i don't listen to myself back are you crazy last thing i want in there is to have my my own voice in my own head that's already stressing and but no it was good it was yeah great atmosphere and i think from the and this is the thing it was a bit like that the french match in the first kind of 15 minutes you were like oh england are up for this um so i was a bit like just get a bloody goal first okay that's definitely on side and definitely counts um which obviously uh lj got and we can get into the beauty of that goal but yeah it was a it was a good game really fun game um my only criticism of england is they could have scored more which is crazy definitely and i think that's

6:48Rachel: such a good problem or a good criticism to have i mean it's one that i would have wished for yesterday so i mean england let's get stuck into the game because it was like you said rage it's so much more direct obviously lj getting that goal in the 22nd minute really settled people's nerves i think the first 15 or 20 yeah people thought i think that it was it was almost like an exact replica of the france game so even though they were playing well there was still this kind of like guardedness i think from everyone watching the game that they didn't want to see the same thing happen well you had the james miss you had the russo miss you were like oh my god yeah it just felt like things it felt like deja vu it was like groundhog day of football and then obviously james breaks um the deadline like and it just felt like this moment of elation and the goal itself was just such a moment of beauty.

7:35Rachel: Getting the ball out wide to Lauren James and him and then pressing Evelyn so aggressively. But I mean, Rach, talk to me about that Lauren James goal. Let me talk you through this goal. Go on, just talk as slowly as possible

7:48Chloe: because I want to relive it. This was a thing of beauty and this is the perfect definition of route one football and it's the perfect example of the attributes that Hannah Hampton provides this team. the ball out from her fizzed across the nearly the surface it wasn't a very high ball it was probably less than head height fizzed through the pitch cut out I'd say 10 of the Dutch players nearly it seemed inch perfect to land at Russo's feet as she was breaking through into the Dutch half actually into the Dutch kind of 30 yards she picked up the ball sent in a perfect ball into to LJ, who took a touch, shifted, you know, and I think for me, as soon as she picked up the ball, I just thought it's gone to the right person at the right time.

8:33Chloe: And I think sometimes that's happened to England where they get the ball in the right place to potentially the wrong person in the moment. It was the right person at the right time with the right confidence. She shifted right and she put the ball in the back of the net the way LJ knows how, which is completely out of reach of any bloody goal. He would have put three goalkeepers in there. I don't think they'd have stop that um so it was a peach of a goal from lj love the celebration uh which unfortunately was the wrong side of me but we'll get on to that um it was yeah it was a perfect start and i think actually the nature of the goal lifted england it wasn't kind of a a ball that kind of like bobbled in or was kind of a ping pong in the box or it was a dominant goal from back to front that just like cut out the dutch team like in the hot knife through butter it just kind of you know and I think that showed England, oh yeah, we've got this.

9:22Rachel: It was definitely a consistent theme as well throughout the game. You know, Hannah Hampton's distribution was one of those things that was really highlighted as being super important in how effective England were. And I think I also have to give credit to Hannah for that particular pass. Like that was on the outside of her buoy. It was one of those floated driven passes. It was inch perfect. And I think goalkeepers, I don't think, get enough credit. Obviously the shot stopping and the saves and, you know, being in the right position and marshalling your defence 100%. But the distribution element that you see from younger keepers now starting to come in it's they have the same level of accuracy and precision that the outfield players do now and like that becomes an attacking arm essentially of of the of the front line so I think to see that in action and what that wasn't the only time either I mean there were so many there were multiple balls that Hannah Hampton was playing out particularly to LJ I felt like she kept on fighting in LJ there was a lovely um pass that she played that hit Lauren James's chest just on the um on the sidelines I think it was just before LJ actually suffered that little um bruise to her to her eye which came up like such a shiner in the um in the press in the post-match conferences um but yeah I thought that goal in particular I think the way that it was created the fact that it was LJ I think the only person who didn't celebrate was LJ and she was so cool

10:32Chloe: and composed it was almost like it was just like Superman stand where she just kind of stood like yeah I did that it's what I do and I think we were lucky enough to speak to LJ just before

10:42Rachel: the competition started and she was saying like one of the big things for her is that she wants to make a mark in this tournament and she wants to do it because she wants to be the player that everyone talks about in tournaments she wants to be the people the person that you know people turn up they talk about they want to go and see and she delighted the crowd yesterday I mean talk to me about that second goal as well I know we're going to get onto the Stanway goal as well but like the second goal for her was also yeah well actually the second goal she celebrated

11:08Chloe: she was right in front of me um because what's as we've spoken about you know I've told you how kind of works where you pick your seat um in at the match and you you get a little number in your bib and that's where you sit for the for the game unless you can find someone to switch sides at you and i didn't really know i don't really know any dutch photographers and it wasn't entirely full in terms of photographers but i did have a guy come to take to see if there was a seat free and there happened to be the girl next to me had moved happened to be a seat free and i said oh is there many down there he goes well you can have my seat so we switch numbers and i haven't been able to do a team's shooting end both halves right it doesn't matter if it's if it's a team i'm not following I'm happy to do both sides but I did England's shooting side both times I am so glad I moved because I got both LJ and Ella Toon scoring right in front of me and LJ did do a celebration this time did do the heart celebration and that was really cool to see but just to quickly touch on you know there was this whole discussion last time out about whether LJ should have started you know I saw some people on socials trying to say that she'd been criticised during the France game and I didn't actually see a lot of criticism of LJ I think a lot of the talk was about how she'd been super creative, but whether it would have been more impactful to have brought her on rather than to have started her, right?

12:21Chloe: And that kind of thing, you don't know until the game starts. You don't know whether that was the right gamble or not. In hindsight, it's a wonderful thing. So actually, I think LJ was absolutely fine during that France game. It was just that the game and the midfield needed a bit more robustness. And that's what Serena Vigman addressed by bringing in Toon. Put Toon in the 10, provided that a little bit more defensive quality, a little bit more robustness in that role, but we didn't lose the creativity of LJ because she was pushed right. And it allowed her to both be on the wing, but also cut inside and do what she does best, which is what we saw for the goal.

12:51Chloe: So that was a great change, that small tweak of having her still in the game, still being able to do what she does, and then still addressing the issue that there was in the midfield for the France game. And then of course, having Greenwood out to the left instead of Carter, another great idea. So again, one change in the team, but just some small tweaks, which I think really made a difference. But yeah, the second goal from her, it was a goal Tooney absolutely should have scored. And I think shows the intuition that LJ has when she is in front of goal is that it's less about just getting it at the goal and more about placing it in the perfect spot.

13:24And you saw that because for Tooney, maybe under a little bit of pressure, it was just about get the ball, get a shot off and get it towards goal.

13:31Chloe: For LJ, it was like, where am I going to put this so the keeper can't reach it? And that's exactly what she did.

13:36Rachel: No, 100%. And I think there was so much discussion, I think, previously and before, obviously, the competition started. And we were part of that discussion about whether LJ would start or whether Ella Toon would start. And then having them both in this game. And like you said, it kind of did bring out those different qualities to them. And even LJ, even though she sort of pushed higher, was still absolutely incredible in her defensive duties. Like, she didn't lose that element to the play either. And then for Ella Toon, I suppose, to get that goal, you could see how much it meant to her. That was such a, you know, she did the point to the sky, obviously in memory of her dad who passed away fairly recently and you know you could just see how much it meant to her and also the squad and yeah what was that like to kind of see that because I think the crowd really rallied behind her in that in that moment I think obviously you know

14:16Chloe: a very special celebration I also think for her she felt she should have had a goal she'd had a couple of opportunities and she was probably a bit like bloody hell like you know how many more times yeah so she got that goal and she was one of those ones where she saw was going in but she was falling over do you know that kind of way so it doesn't the celebration almost happened in slow motion she ended up on her chest she did a bit of a like almost like she was flying on the ground and then russo it was and it was lovely it was a real example of russo's play and intelligence and teamwork and willingness to to play off the ball and not go for it herself and a really unselfish uh choice there but yeah i thought lovely russo set her up and helped her up as well and she did that celebration up to the sky and you could just see all the teammates standing on the touchline waiting for her because um they knew how important that was she knew how important it was so as soon as she finished that heart up to the sky um or that kiss up to the sky she went straight for the the subs bench and um yeah everyone was absolutely delighted for her so that was a lovely moment to

15:17Rachel: see no it was absolutely gorgeous and um yeah massive shout out to ella because i can't imagine like what that that must have meant to her and the family and i think we've got to talk about the other the midfield maestros I mean Georgia Stamway since her debut in November 2018 only Ellen White and Beth Mead have scored more England goals than her so now she's joined on 23 with Alessia Russo but race do you think like this was her kind of this felt like I felt like in the first France game she was kind of not able to get into possession much I don't think she was on the ball too much I think she felt frustrated but in this game yeah and it wasn't the best game for her but I don't think she had the kind of access that I would have liked to see her have.

15:56Rachel: But this game, it felt like she had that kind of freedom and a little bit more flexibility and that creativity. And I kind of saw her come into her own. And it was interesting to kind of hear her before this match kind of say, you know, I don't really want to be in this press conference. All I want to do is really focus on the game in hand. We put it to get there, put it to bed. Like a bad hangover. I think she said someone texted her. No, she said a friend message. It was a bad night. Or like forget it, like it was a bad night. You don't want to remember. and then to kind of have to go from that mentality into this game it kind of felt like a big a big shift for her but yeah did she impress was she as impressive as for you as I found her yeah I think

16:31Chloe: you know and we said it as well it was hard to kind of overanalyse that game when a lot of it was just down to players having bad days you know that kind of way so that I can understand her like I imagine when you're a player and you have a bad game you just want to get out on the pitch again and have a good game and get rid of that out of your system. I think it was important for her in her position to have a game like she did after the France game and to know that that's not her level and that the way she played against the Netherlands is definitely her level. I think the way her and Kira Walsh kind of teamed up a little bit and a bit of a double pivot, I guess, made it difficult for the Dutch to know who to kind of shepherd and in order to kind of break up that midfield, it was difficult to do when the two of them were team working that way on the pitch which I think worked really well great to see her goal I think the thing with Stanway now is that she has that willingness to shoot from distance and when a ball breaks down as they go into the box and maybe the header doesn't come off or the pass doesn't come off and a defender kind of just pops it out and just clears it and Stanway's there you've got to be pretty confident that she's going to at least have a shot and she's got some boot on her as well now this one was kind of fizzed low might have had a slight deflection but fizzed low into the corner so very difficult for Van Damselaar to get but that was the goal as well the timing of that goal just before half-time I did message Sophie and I kind of said I think England need another one before half-time just to let them feel a little bit more comfortable going in at the half-time and you know because the Dutch are going to go in, analyse, look at where things are going wrong and where they can exploit so getting that second goal when they did I think was key so yeah delighted she was able to get that and maybe shake off that France performance a little bit

18:11Rachel: definitely and now we've covered the midfield let's give a bit of a shout out and a bit of love to the defenders and the goalkeepers because it feels like this is what we needed we need the clean sheet Hannah Hampton was a bit of a star of the show getting pretty much what I'd call an assist essentially um not really that much yes not really that much for her to do I'd say I don't think she was tested to the absolute max of her abilities but at the same time she did all the basics perfectly so there were so many lofted balls that were coming in she was sweeping up at the back she was commanding she she you know she kind of owned her area she was coming out and you know claiming the balls and i think um sometimes it goes under the radar just how difficult it is to claim when you've got players who are tall and like you know have a decent stature about them to come through that sea of bodies to come and claim that ball the fly of the ball is really difficult

19:00Chloe: to judge sometimes you have half sun coming from the shade in that in that 100 all these factors

19:06Rachel: come into play and she was relentlessly doing that over and over again and I don't think there was a fumble at all at any point so I think for me I'm 100 % I've got to give credit to Hannah Hampton I think the defence themselves I think they were doubling up I think they were watching their markers I think they were watching the runs in behind they marshaled Miedema so well like definitely did not let her get a touch and I also think there was an element of the defence adapting to the Netherlands game plan so in that first 15 or 20 minutes I think it was flagged that Jess Carter looked like she was kind of sitting in that sort of left back position and then she came more into that central position and Alex Greenwood then sort of stepped uh I think they started with Alex on the left oh it kind of felt like well for the tv act I think it felt like Jess Carter was like drifting over into the left so it kind of felt like she was maybe she was just like this is where I was last time oh that that's how it felt like watching watching the game unfold and I think the Dutch were kind of almost they were targeting there they they that was their goal which was a bit

20:02Chloe: naive I think to think they're probably going to be shit there again so let's just target that and I kind of felt like they put all their eggs in the Jess Carter basket 100 % so I think the first

20:11Rachel: 15 or 20 minutes all you saw was lofted balls in behind Jess Carter and to be fair to them they were getting a little bit of success initially and then I think that's when Jess Carter Alex Greenwood started doubling up and neutralized the threat completely and then after that it didn't feel like the Dutch really had that much of a commanding or they weren't that aggressive going forwards anymore I mean Vech is that what you saw yeah I just want to very quickly

20:35Chloe: touch on you what you said about the defense I also think there was some very good long balls over the top from Williamson from Greenwood from Carter finding players up front providing those options like they were just cutting out the Dutch every time and they had so much time on the ball to pick out those passes because the Dutch were kind of half pressing which I just find so ineffective um so yeah they were it meant then that let's talk about the dutch that the tactics were very unusual they were very narrow on the pitch and you know it afforded lauren hemp acres of space on the left and it allowed lj space on the right as well which like two players you do not two laurens you do not want to be giving space to um and i like it just felt like there was a lack of urgency they were really sitting off england um and not kind of reacting to the fact that there's another long ball into Hemp.

21:27Chloe: There's another ball into LJ. They're getting in again. Like, it's just very slow to react. You know, I think for them, with Miedema being kind of marked out of the game and marshalled out of the game, they didn't really have a plan B. Some unusual substitutions at halftime. Like, you know, I think Berman got injured, so Shreda Despica came on in place of her, which I think was slightly unusual. I appreciate it was an injury, but I just wouldn't have expected her in that position. You know, Daniela van der Donk didn't come on until the 66th minute, which really surprised me. I would have, A, expected us to start, if not come in at halftime.

22:06Chloe: She came out afterwards and said she was fully fit. Yonkers said, oh, there's a bit of communication. We always knew she could only do 20, 25 minutes. So I thought that was quite telling that she was frustrated not to have started that match. She was very frustrated on the pitch. you could see players slapping the ground and you know and I it's a bit like when England were playing and nothing was going right I just think the Dutch had one of those games where the game plan was wrong they didn't adapt it and they just couldn't couldn't get it right and you could see as the game went on and the goals went more and more goals went in they were just getting so much more frustrated

22:40Rachel: I think one person I definitely saw frustration from was Van Domsala I think every time a goal went in she was kind of looking at her defence in this exasperated way like why are you not picking up these players Like, why is Lauren James, why have Elatoune got so much space in and around the area? We know these are dangerous players and why are you giving them an acre? And you could just see her getting more and more frustrated with what was happening. I mean, she didn't have a bad game, but there was literally nothing she could do about any of the goals that went in. But I think we saw the same thing from Hannah Hampton a few days ago.

23:10Rachel: And I think it was really interesting, I think, to see some of the sort of the post-match conferences. Obviously, Viv, not too happy, but it was kind of the questions that were being asked were around, you know, her relationship with Beth Mead and kind of both having to console each other in those moments. Get over it, like Jesus. It's just, everyone loves a female player opposition love story. It was the same with Magda and Pernilla

23:32Chloe: and Magda didn't even play the fecking game and the same thing happened with Beth and Beth didn't even start and they didn't even step on the pitch at the same time. So how that then ends up being a post-match conversation topic when they weren't even on the pitch at the same time. Like, come on.

23:45Rachel: I think it's just the mainstream media and I think obviously we've gone from like the football mainstream media then having to translate into women's football and the interesting thing I suppose about women's football is that you do have these LGBTQ plus opposition stories so I think naturally like everyone's conversation just goes that like how do you deal with that dynamic at home who's frosty with each other who gives each other a cuddle they're not at home like they're not seeing each other for the fucking month but equally I think it was one of the it was I suppose an even more interesting conversation because it kept flicking to the bench every now and again and obviously you can see have a look at Beth B because Beth B obviously didn't look too happy having not started the game obviously she did then come on but yeah there was I did sense there was a little bit of frustration she didn't look as sort of jovial as you expect but obviously like you're in a Euros tournament like if you're not getting on you're going to be disappointed like you want to see that disappointment because you're hungry to get on the pitch so yeah I think although she didn't come on and start on the left

24:38Chloe: which I don't think she appreciated yeah I think you could sense like after the game she switched then but I think she was a bit like I finally get on and you put me on the left, but then switched, I think, with Chloe Kelly. So at least that, at least you've gone on the right side, literally.

24:52Rachel: Definitely. But I think, yeah, I mean, she obviously did came on. She was a big contributor. And I think Rachel Brown-Fillis on comms couldn't have said it any better that, you know, despite her not starting the game, she's been a massive contribution to everything the Lionesses have done to get to this point and also the first game and also being on this game and just everything that she's done for English football. So let's not take away from the fact that she's spent 45 minutes on a bench. Like, who cares? obviously Rachel touched on there the sort of the lapses I suppose in the Dutch side I mean before this game the Dutch had never conceded more than two goals in a single match at a major tournament obviously we're in the situation now where we've got two teams on three points we've got the Netherlands and obviously England on three having secured one win apiece France and we're going to touch on this game in a second because it's such an exciting game in itself and we need to unpack it.

25:40Rachel: But France now on six points and obviously going through. But what do we think actually is, what are your thoughts on what's going to happen this last game? Because everything comes down to day three and it could have been such an, we'll talk about the next game, but like obviously it could have been such an interesting situation where we could have had three teams essentially on three points apiece. I mean, it's become quite a close group of death. Yeah, I mean, how are you feeling going into this last group?

26:07Chloe: Where are the nerves at? I'm not surprised that three teams could still get through in this group. I think that's what we expected. I don't think we expected to have two teams through and two teams out by the second game in this group. It's a completely different challenge. I think France was a different challenge. The Dutch provided a different challenge. The Wales are going to provide an entirely different challenge. And I think we've seen England in the past struggle to break down teams. Wales are absolutely going to cause those kind of problems, I think. and there is of course the extra element of it being a home nation and the opportunity to kind of upset the apple cart a little bit i mean i think wales have to win by like four goals and hope that the dutch win that the netherlands hang on i have this down somewhere but it's very complicated but basically like um hang on i have it here bear with guys bear with group d where are we um at a glance who needs what this is what i was trying to figure out last night and And I tell you what, I was so tired when I was recording mine that I was just like, I don't know, guys, I'll figure it out tomorrow.

27:09Chloe: They would need to beat England by at least four goals because of their unfavourable head-to-head goal difference in matches involving themselves and the defending champions, the Netherlands. Oh, you've lost me.

27:20Rachel: You've lost me in the first sentence.

27:21Chloe: I'm sorry. Basically, look, it's bloody hard. And I think if Wales are going out there to say, right, we've got to get four goals to be in with any hope of getting through, I think it leaves them open at the back. and it leaves England with the opportunity to score goals. Equally, though, if they bank up, this is the thing, right? If they bank up, very difficult for them to go and get four goals, but equally difficult for England to score. And if England win, they're through. There's no kind of how many goals. It's if England win, they're through. So, yeah, I think it's a different challenge for them to have to think about.

27:56Chloe: I think they cannot underestimate Wales. They can't think we played really well against the Dutch. that's naturally going to happen when we go out against Wales. Like there still needs to be the same level of analysis and focus as there was after the France game and the same level of G-ing up and kind of, you know, determination going into the Wales game as there was going into the Netherlands.

28:18Rachel: God, all I keep thinking about is the state of the podcast on Monday morning. Like what that is going to look like and how tense Sunday night is going to be. Like Sunday should be a time for winding down, not a time for the most heightened anxiety fear and concern and nervousness on the planet but we are obviously going to do a pod in between then so we'll definitely discuss the the lead up to the game in a little bit more detail coming up after this a tough but encouraging night for and our first qualifying shootout of the tournament

28:59Hi, Pod fans. Max Rushton here from the chart-topping Guardian Football Weekly Podcast. Don't like to crow. If you enjoyed the World Cup with us, you'll be glad to know we're back for the new Premier League season. Expect three episodes a week, questionable predictions and the biggest stories in soccer from the Premier League to the Champions League and beyond. Watch now on YouTube or listen wherever you get your podcasts. Did you know that driving under the influence of marijuana is illegal? Driving high will get you a DUI. And if you're wondering if law enforcement can tell you're driving high, well, everyone else can.

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30:27Rachel: All right, Rach, what a tasty little fixture this turned out to be. Eight o 'clock last night, France winning 4-1 against Wales. Obviously upsetting news, Wales are all about their debut tournament after a tough night at St Gallen. They need a five goal victory over England on Sunday and for France to beat the Netherlands. So not completely out, but pretty much a foot and a half out the door. But let's talk about the first half race, because this was so spicy. This was so kind of not unexpected because that kind of feels disrespectful to the Wales team. They have a lot of talent on their squad.

31:03Rachel: But my God, it really shook everyone. Like, oh my God, this could be the biggest upset of the tournament. I think when Matteo scored in the eighth minute, people were starting to think, OK, well, this is just the floodgates. You know, this is going to go the same again. But actually Wales said, no, no, no. Five minutes later, Fishlock stepping up and catching France on the counter and scoring that goal. And obviously it was a bit bouncy. It was a bit. It was a terrible goal, but they all count. Yeah, 100 percent. Like it was a bit messy. but at the same time, it really galvanised Wales. And the whole half then became a kind of real match-up.

31:41Rachel: It came almost very end-to-end. It felt like the last 10 minutes of a game condensed into the first half. I mean, Rach, what did you think of that first half?

31:50Chloe: Well, I don't think it is disrespectful to say that we thought, especially after what we saw in terms of Wales versus the Netherlands and how France played against England, I think it was completely natural to expect France to run away with it. Which they kind of did in the end. But in the first half, I mean, France made seven substitutions, right? First of all, which is an interesting tactic in the second game of a tournament. Part of me thinks, did they perhaps underestimate Wales a little bit? And the thing is, right, you're still playing Mallard. You're still playing De Ani. You're playing Maggi.

32:20It's not like you're playing lesser players.

32:23Chloe: Do you know what I mean? It's still absolute quality. But it's disruptive, right? If you're making seven changes, it's quite a lot. Equally, Wales changed their goalkeeper and changed their formation. They play in the back four. So like they were brave going into this. So yeah, I think perhaps there was a slight element of underestimating. I think the speed at which Wales got their goal back. And of course, it was going to be Jess Fishlock because who else would it be to score their first goal? I'm really glad it was her that not only did she get her moment at a major tournament and actually get to a major tournament, but she scored their first bloody goal.

32:56Chloe: So absolutely going down in the history books. Bloody hell what a sloppy goal it was, but who cares? It doesn't matter. Yeah, shin, elbow, doesn't matter. Well, maybe not elbow. VAR definitely would have picked that one up. But no, I think it gave them such a boost. And I think the first half was a bit like the first half against the Dutch, where they were like, yeah, we can cause problems. We're in this. We can kind of shake them up a bit. I think the goal shook France a little bit. And I just, again, the second goal that France scored, just like the Dutch goal, moments before halftime. And an absolute killer time to concede.

33:31Chloe: And we've touched on this with teams in the WSL that might be lower down the league and that perhaps naivety at times of when to bank up, when to shore up, what moments in the game do you really need to focus on those moments of right before halftime, right after halftime or right before full time. And I think, yeah, to give away the penalty at that time was a kicker because, again, your halftime talk is changing now. Your focus is changing. You're not going in level with bloody France. You're now behind. So, yeah, I think the timing of the goal just exemplified the exact same thing that happened in the Dutch game.

34:06Rachel: Yeah, do you know what? It was a real shame because I felt like Wales actually progressed. They grew into the game even more, sort of buoyed by the confidence of that first goal. and to keep it level you know 1-1 for the best part of 45 well for 40 minutes or so it was such an impressive display I mean I was listening to I was on the train back from from Leicester at the time so I was listening to it on the radio and I've not listened to a radio game in quite a long time I have a couple of times at this tournament it's nice honestly like it kind of like it puts you in the moment because you have to like listen to the experience rather than like seeing it so like when they when they go quiet or like obviously and then the penalty and like they give you every single bit of detail so it's kind of like okay diane places the ball penalty she is jumping up and down she is looking into the crowd her eyes are darting across their pinpoint and like honestly you feel like you're in diane shit like it was the weirdest experience but it was amazing i think i actually might do some of these games and radio again um but at the same time again well's completely unstuck by individual errors i mean that penalty conceding that it was such a a sloppy thing to do it could have changed the game going into that um into the dressing room at halftime knowing that you're 1-1 against a side that everyone was expecting to kind of tear you apart a little bit and then having that confidence to kind of reset and go again in the second half it kind of felt like it shouldn't have been an hour in the coffin it was only 2-1 at that point but it just felt like the door was starting to close yeah it was the timing of it that kind of started to put it to bed and I think it was so just not disheartening but it was so kind of like heartbreaking I think to see Safia Middleton-Bittent who I absolutely love she's been such a great advocate for you know like all the lovely stuff that she does off the pitch then kind of just about get like a toenail to dive to the right hand side yeah it was such a soft penalty and had she kind of stayed put and kind of maybe like I don't know you risk it as a goalkeeper I suppose staying put but she just about got a toe to it and it kind of dribbled in and it just felt they didn't deserve that.

36:01Chloe: What I thought was really funny was that penalty did not deserve the goal celebration it got. If I scored that penalty, I'd have been like, Jesus Christ, thank God. Right, guys, move on. Let's get another one. Rather than like, yeah, I'm doing my celebration or whatever. I don't know what she did, but they all lined up and did something. And I was like, that was fucking lucky there. That just about got over the line.

36:19Rachel: I think, yeah, I mean, but looking at sort of how well Wales did, I know things kind of fell apart a little bit in the second half and obviously it did become a little bit more one-way traffic, which is what we expected in the first half. But do we now think there's more of a risk that Wales pose going into the last group stage game? Because obviously they do have something to play for. They have five goals to play for if they have any chance of staying in the competition and they want to do themselves justice. It could be their last game in the Euros for a number of, or everyone's for a number of years, but they're never guaranteed, I suppose, qualifications.

36:47Rachel: So do you think for Wales, actually, there's, I don't know, does it fill you with a little bit more dread going into that last group stage game, which should have effectively been on paper, I suppose, England's easiest game to play.

37:00Chloe: I don't think it would have mattered what happened with Wales against France and the Netherlands before the England game. I don't think it would have mattered whether they would have had skin in the game, whether they wouldn't have skin in the game. Wales are always going to turn up for the England game. That's the way I think anyway. So I don't think anything would have made it more or less or extra. It was always going to be a big one. And Wales were always going to be wanting to get the absolute most out of a game against England. I don't think it needed anything extra or anything was going to make them more g'd up for it, in my opinion.

37:30Chloe: So yeah, I mean, the fact that there is still a potential, yes, it makes it dangerous for England, of course, and England know they absolutely need to win it. I just think the need for so many goals versus the best set up against England for Wales is to defend resolutely. They're two very different things to be able to do for a team that, as we've said, struggles to score a lot of goals. So it's a big task, but they will very happily upset the party for England. No question.

38:03Rachel: 100%. And I think it is going to be that clash of the home nations that's going to be so special to see on Sunday. I think maybe, yes, there's going to be an element of, you know, England having seen, I suppose, how many goals, I suppose, Wales have conceded in the past two games. And knowing that that's a bit of an area of weakness for them. And then also knowing that Wales do have that particular threat in kind of catching people on the counter and having those quick attacking moments. So, yeah, I think there's probably something there that the Lionesses can learn from it. But my God, it's going to be such a matchup for the ages.

38:32Chloe: They'll want to avoid what happened in previous Euros where England faced home nations, where they beat Northern Ireland 5-0. They beat Scotland, what, like 6-0, 6-1 in 2017? They'll want to definitely avoid that.

38:47Rachel: definitely 100 % and we're hoping it's you know we're still hoping for a tasty game I mean I want to win but I still want it to be done in a tasty fashion um I think the thing that made the Wales game so impressive is obviously they came off the back of a their bus being involved in a crash on its way to a training session on Wednesday um the FAW said all players and staff in the bus were uninjured but an ambulance did attend to the driver of another vehicle who was taken to hospital um the initial session was cancelled but they trained later that day back at their team base.

39:15Chloe: I've driven around here. It's pretty hairy with the trams and the bike lanes and they have pedestrian crossings. They have zebra crossings. Some of them are pedestrianised with lights. Some of them aren't. So you really need to be on your game about when you do and don't have to stop at pedestrian lights. You're sometimes driving on the tram tracks. You're sometimes driving next to the trams. You can turn right when the light's red. It's just, there's a lot. Okay, so I'm glad everyone's okay, but it is quite hairy. I imagine driving a massive big bus around these roads.

39:45Rachel: It sounds like wacky races, essentially. But yeah, glad to hear that everyone's OK. And yeah, thoughts to the person who was also taken to hospital. OK, tonight, Rach, the schedule, the fixtures, they're relentless, they're ongoing. We've got Finland, Switzerland and Norway, Iceland tonight. It's a straight shootout between Finland and Switzerland to qualify second behind Norway. Iceland are already out. obviously I think there is there's going to be a massive Switzerland contingent at this game they want the host to go through we all kind of want the host to go through in a way but Finland have been providing some pretty tasty moments in this tournament I mean Rach have I had to put your

40:23Chloe: flagpole in the sand oh my god this is so hard to call because both teams have had really impressive performances um in this tournament and I'd like to see Switzerland get through there's been some beautiful scenes of the Swiss fans marching to games. There's been some unbelievable drone shots of these picturesque towns, these lovely old buildings and bridges, and this sea of red crossing them. It's been incredible. So I would really like for that to continue in the tournament. I have been very impressed with Finland, of course. I really didn't think they were going to get out of the group or have a chance of getting out of the group, given they haven't won a group game in 16 years or four euros so you know they've been super impressive and a young squad that are really starting to do the business but I'm hoping for a Swiss win me too it's gonna be so nervy and

41:19Rachel: I think obviously like when you've got the fan base behind it and the country starts to get behind it like it just means so much much more but we will wait and see obviously we'll be back uh on Saturday um but before that um Rach I think you had a few special words that you wanted to to say to end off the pod?

41:33Chloe: I did. I'd quite like to dedicate this pod to Sue Klesnicks, who very sadly passed away on Friday. A massive, massive Lionesses supporter, a massive women's football supporter, not just of the players on the pitch, but such a massive advocate for everyone working in the game, supporting everything, you know, you and I do it up front. She was one of our most ardent listeners and commenters and engaged listeners. She's a huge supporter of Girls on the Ball, read everything that came out around women's football, watched everything around it, always engaged with stuff and gave her insights. A real intelligent fan, and I used to have many an intense conversation pre - and post-match with Sue.

42:20Chloe: She always loved delving into the detail and talking about what was needed and who needed what. And one of those fans, that could put club bias aside as well, which I think seems to be getting harder and harder for people to do in the game. But she could very much park her allegiances during England tournaments and travel the world following the Lionesses. So she very sadly passed away on Friday with a short battle with cancer. She couldn't make it out to the Euros, which she had absolutely planned to do. So she has definitely left a huge hole, not just in the Lionesses fan base, but I think more broadly in women's football.

42:55Rachel: That's really lovely, Rachel. and I completely echo your sentiments there and yeah, send thoughts and love to Sue's family and friends. I think everyone's always affected when someone, you know, has been such a huge part of the women's football community and has been one of the OGs in the space as well, you know, leaves us so, yeah, big love. And yeah, again, dedicating the podcast to her feels like 100 % the right thing to do. We'll be back again on Saturday and we'll have a much better idea of who made it into the last eight. we'll have a totally chill if not stressful preview of England and Wales too remember make sure you hit subscribe so that you never miss an episode throughout the Euros thank you so much Rach

43:36Chloe: thanks Laurel

43:41Upfront is a Stack production and part of the Acast Creator Network

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