England break through Iceland, Australia wobble at the Asian Cup, and our League Cup final preview!

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2:40Rachel: Welcome to Upfront, I'm Chloe Morgan. And I'm Rachel O'Sullivan. Step two on the road to Brazil and the Lionesses have shaken off their next challenge, a game against Iceland in Nottingham. We'll be taking a look at that game as well as Ireland's travails against yet another top level opponent in the Netherlands. After that, we'll be chatting to Amy Ruskay about the Asian Cup where the group stages have just wrapped up.

3:08Rachel: Rach, lovely to see another side of your kitchen this week since I've not been round and we were trying to we've had a bit of a disagreement about me not being invited you said that I have been invited I haven't made the effort to go over in Christmas time to try some of your lovely panettone I will swiftly move on but please do tell us your moments of the weekend

3:29Chloe: Yeah, so we were discussing whether moments of the week should be happy things or not, but I want to use this one as an opportunity to raise the fact that Aerial Fantasy, one of the fantasy football leagues for the WSL, will be shutting down at the end of the season, which I think is pretty devastating for something that has been grown over the last number of years. Fan-led, with over 30 ,000 users by last summer, which is incredible. And we've often been encouraging our listeners to get involved and join our league. one of few, if any, fantasy apps out there. And I know how much hard work went into getting this to where it is now.

4:09Chloe: And I just think it's an absolute missed opportunity for WSL Football not to get on board with them and work out how they can do this collaboratively because, you know, why would you want to... Wow, okay. Sorry, listeners, for those listening. the cat literally just landed on my keyboard mid-sentence and excuse me I'm so sorry for

4:33Rachel: the interruption I really enjoyed that I really enjoyed that um a massive missed opportunity I

4:40Chloe: think um to not collaborate with a platform that's already out there already developed already got the expertise already got a huge fan base already loved by fans and used by fans to not come together and work out a way somehow that this could be sustained. And I know those kind of things take time and there's lots of stuff that has to go on behind the scenes. But, you know, if we turn around next season and have a new fantasy app that comes out through WSL Football, I'm going to be a bit like, you know, why could this not be done together? Like they've poured everything into this. And I know what it's like to run something alongside doing a day job.

5:17Chloe: So I'm gutted for them. And there's been a huge outpouring from the community, the women's football community. We're very, very sad to see that this will be shutting down.

5:28Rachel: Yeah, I feel the same way. I think, you know, I've spoken to the founders on a couple of occasions and what they've built is absolutely incredible. I mean, they've built this from scratch, out of nothing. And I think it's not only kind of the product and the entertainment that they've kind of built, but it's also this like gorgeous community of people who are super invested and they become invested in the WSL because of these apps. And I think, you know, also we speak to people like EA Sports, Football Manager, and they're trying to build sort of similar communities where it's very much based on that education piece where, you know, people get to understand the players, the positions they play, who they're playing against.

6:00Rachel: They get to enjoy the product. They get to speak to other people on the app. They get to make it competitive. And it draws a different type of fan base into the WSL. So for me, like you said, it does feel like a super missed opportunity to engage with fans. And I think there will be a degree of backlash if some other product pops up. So, yeah, disappointing. Obviously, like you said, you don't know what goes on behind the scenes. I can imagine how complex it is with the right situation and rights holders and, you know, what you have to do to get a product like that off the ground and how many stakeholders you have to get buy in from.

6:27Rachel: But I'll try and make it a little bit lighter. We had a lovely moment from Kelly Smith, who was honoured with a, yeah, with a lovely mural in her hometown of Watford. Huge crowd turned out to obviously celebrate her career and what that meant. And it's a gorgeous mural as well. So, yeah, that was a really lovely moment to kind of see her career marked in that way. There's loads of murals popping up, isn't there? You've got Sam Kerr. I think there's one of Mary Earps up north. I think there's a Liverpool player as well, up north as well. Where's yours? Missy Bo Kearns. Is she on a wall somewhere?

6:55Rachel: My mum and dad's house. Yeah, not a lot of people get to see it. No, I bet. So disappointing. In the front room, isn't it? Pending, you know? I mean, Kelly Smith's been retired for a very long time. So, yeah, it could come. Anyway, moving swiftly on. Let's discuss the England-Iceland game then. England obviously picking up the points. 2-0 against Iceland. Lioness is continuing their 100 % winning start in the Nations League and against tougher opposition this time, obviously with Iceland presenting a few more challenges in the previous game. But the opening exchanges looked super, super spicy, super impressed with Lioness's kind of continuing their great run of form.

7:34Rachel: Russo, in particular, looks super, super up for this game. Yeah, first sort of opening five or 10 minutes or so, already kind of, you know, been able to pounce on a cutback ball that was a ball that was delivered just into the box and it sort of just got underneath her and she wasn't able to put that one away. And then Lauren James whipping in a ball with that hemp header that just hit the post. But it felt like England kind of dominated that first half. 14 efforts on goal and 69 possession against Iceland. It kind of felt like Iceland had spent most of the time kind of pretty much backs against it, kind of trying to weather a bit of the storm rage.

8:08Rachel: Did you feel the same way?

8:10Chloe: Yeah, it's kind of what I expected to a degree. I do think Iceland were going to pose a more difficult threat than Ukraine did, particularly, and I know it sounds weird to say defensively, but just in terms of being more structured, more disciplined and fitter to sustain that level of defensive discipline. And, you know, then more threatening when they did counter. So I kind of maybe expected a little bit more from Iceland. But equally, I do think, you know, credit has to be given to England for kind of smothering that. and they barely allowed them out of their half. And I, look, I'm, you know, people are saying, oh, only 2-0, England should have done better as per because nothing can ever just be happy and joyous.

8:50Chloe: And, you know, I think England would have wanted more overall from the number of shots they created. They would have wanted more shots on target. From the number of shots on target, they would have wanted more goals. That is understandable. But I do think there are a lot of positives to take from the game overall.

9:05Rachel: No, definitely. And one of their positives, obviously a massive, massive congrats to Lucy Bronze, who scored a goal in the first half and got an assist. It was her 145th cap for England. Yeah, I thought she had a super, super good game. I mean, I've got to talk about this. The crossing from bronze for the Stamway goal, and we'll get into the Stamway goal in a bit. Absolutely pinpoint perfect. And then the powerful header that she had, the physicality that she was showing, the dominance, the kind of leadership, like got over her marker. And they were, I mean, Iceland were, they were tough. They were physical in themselves.

9:36Rachel: Like they're not short girls either. I mean, Lucy Barnes had her absolute work to care of her to try and get that header and direct it into the top right-hand corner. But yeah, I feel like she had such a great game. She just felt like everywhere you went, it just felt like Lucy Bronze was there in some capacity. And I think that freedom that she had also to kind of drive up the pitch and almost become part of the attacking lineup. I mean, she was kind of the fourth person up top in a way.

9:59Chloe: Yeah. And that works really well for England when they're playing a team that is sitting back. That overlap from the fullbacks is really beneficial and it's something they really try to utilize it's one of Lucy Bronze's massive strengths and she is bionic and I what you said there about you know she seemed to be everywhere I found when I was shooting I would watch like a phase play out and even if I felt like the player that the ball was intended for had missed it I'd be like she'll appear just you wait zoom and then Lucy Bronze just appear into my lens like out of nowhere I'd be like don't worry I'll get a head onto this or I'll get a foot onto this so yeah I think her physical her her physicality to be able to get up and down the pitch in the way that she does and I don't want to talk about her age because she's still younger than me but you know to be able to be continued doing that the injuries she's had to still have that I mean she's still one of the fittest players in that team which is incredible and you know at one point I messaged Sophie and I was like why does Lucy Bronze look like one of England's best attackers right now like this is absolutely insane and then to still have that link up with LJ when they were playing on opposite side as a pitch was just ridiculous.

11:01Rachel: I think it's that um I think she's been with the squad such a long period of time and she knows the squad so well it kind of felt there was just this natural like symbiosis that she had she knew where people were going to be like it just she knew what she knew where they were going to deliver to her it just really felt that there was that connection there and I think again we saw the same thing with Georgia Stanway again had an absolutely outstanding game another goal for her and that's three in the qualifying already um just gorgeous crossing 80 85 I mean you can tell how much she's enjoying it as well like when she scored it was just like that moment that she kind of celebrated to the crowd it was just gorgeous and I've got to give a bit of a shout out actually to the England social team who remixed that goal over Olivia Dean's rein me in as a bit of a kind of like funny pun to like the how devastating Georgia Stanley has been.

11:46Rachel: It's the latest trend Cleo. I know and I still struggle to keep on top of this but yeah I think talking about the goal itself I mean the way that she struck that was so clean was so neat it was on the volley ball hadn't even landed it was just the most gorgeous kind of front post effort I've ever seen in my entire life but it just felt like there was that connection there with Stanway with bronze with LJ they just knew the ins and outs and

12:11Chloe: every detail of each other yeah and I think it's also an element of her game that she's worked on Stanway um is getting into those spaces particularly when Alessio Russo perhaps drops back to look to create something and I think in the past you know people have criticized Alessio Russo for not being in the position, natural position maybe, of a number nine at times. And that's because she's come back to get the ball to create something when things haven't been created for her. And at times you weren't seeing other players around her reading the need to go into that space. So that's clearly something that Georgia Stanway has been working on, is stepping up into those spaces.

12:48Chloe: And as I said, eight goals in the last five games, it is clearly paying off.

12:52Rachel: I'd also like to give a massive, massive shout-out to LJ. I feel like she was a player that I think has been a little bit understated maybe in the previous game. But this game, I really felt her presence. I think the way that she was repeatedly whipping in balls on that left hand side, she was such a big reason for many of England's decent chances. I just felt that she had that kind of, again, that freedom to run up to kind of, I don't know, the pinpoint again, the accuracy that she had and the little back lift that she's able to generate. She can speed away from players and then just quickly whip a ball in.

13:22Rachel: And the players know that she can do that and they're ready waiting for those crosses. but she was a big part of the decent chances. What did you think?

13:29Chloe: Yeah, I think, I mean, in the previous game, she'd come on as a substitute, so probably less time to have the impact. But I think, and we're going to come on to this when we touch a little bit on Jess Park, I think the setup that they went with in this game really suited her. And she's obviously coming back from being out for a while with injuries, particularly coming back into England. So it was just seeing her play with that confidence and enjoyment again. and you know when she's in that form where you're just like god I would not want to be on her side defending her because she can go inside she can go outside left foot right foot you know she can receive the ball and pass it quickly for a one-two or she can take it and turn you inside out and she's gone down the wing like she was in that kind of form and you know it's just that productivity now that little tiny little bit that's going to come now with more game time obviously she set up Lucy Bronze but I think you know probably could have had a couple of goals herself so it's exciting to see her getting back to that stage.

14:24Rachel: Definitely. I think also the link-up play that she was kind of having with Taylor Hines, who seems to be sort of becoming more and more of that chosen kind of left-back position. But it was that combination sort of like consistently and then challenging the Iceland defence. So I think them two are kind of one to watch as a bit of a partnership that's developing that's super interesting. We've got to give a bit of a credit to Iceland. They did obviously make times difficult for England at various points in the game. a huge save from Hannah Hampton. That absolutely incredible, the athleticism of Hannah Hampton in, I mean, it was, she had seconds, milliseconds even, to kind of make that save from Sandra Jensen's header.

15:02Rachel: And it was such close range. I don't know how she did it to tip it over the bar. But yeah, it was -

15:08Chloe: But also to be that switched on when she had very little to do in the game, that's where you see like the level of a goalkeeper to not just make any old save when they're suddenly called into action, but to make a save of that quality, to be that switched on to make a save of that quality. And look, people are going to go, oh, well, that's her job. But like a save like that has got to be commended.

15:28Rachel: 100%. Like you said, that she hadn't had loads and loads to do. But I think it's those fine margins of a goalkeeper. So you look at her positioning when that was coming in. She's positioned herself in a central way to kind of ensure that she can cover as much of the goal because she's anticipating that that ball is going to land somewhere in this kind of like crowded centre section. So it's those little things like that and the ability to kind of get that additional reach. She's led with her right hand as well to give her that additional reach. So, yeah, I can't give her credit enough for that because that obviously was such a defining moment in the game and meant a huge deal.

15:59But do you think there was any sort of positive takeaways for Iceland?

16:03Rachel: Or do you think actually you were expecting a little bit more from them and England should have done better with that score?

16:07Chloe: I would say the probably biggest takeaway for Iceland is limiting England's chances to quite a few numbers of shots on goal when you compare the two numbers. I think that would probably be their big takeaway to be able to shut them out. They are European champions. To come away, you know, a 2-0 loss could have got a goal themselves. It's probably what they'll take from that. But they know they're in a bloody tough group.

16:31Rachel: It's not bloody easy, to be fair. We've got a really good question in from Mia Barlow on Instagram who asked, how do we make best use of Jess Park in this England team after a strong showing against Ukraine, against Aysund? It felt like she could have been used a little bit more.

16:46Chloe: I don't think she had a great game against Aysund. She was obviously playing in a different position. And look, this is the nature of having depth in the squad. There's a lot of good players. There's players who can play in a multitude of positions. And depending on what the opposition requires and the setup requires, players will be moved around. Now, what was interesting was that England put Lauren Hemp on the right and Lauren James on the left. You know, arguably you would say that's a left and right footed player on the opposite side, although LJ can play on both feet. And I think because they knew that Iceland were going to be difficult to break down, they wanted the options of their wingers to be able to invert and allow for their fullbacks to give the overlap on the outside as well.

17:27Chloe: So it gave them another option, which is why they were playing on the opposite side. So the fact that Jess Park then got into the number 10 was great. You know, she'll want game time. That's the main thing. But I think for what was needed from the game, they needed L squared on the wings. And so it was less about like not using Jess Park enough necessarily. I just don't think in that setup it was her ideal position.

17:51Rachel: Yeah, I've got to agree. And I don't think I mean, it doesn't matter so much that she wasn't utilized as much in this game. What she did do was a very pivotal role in itself. and I think also there's an expectation when you're constantly seeing a player perform at a very top level, they're obviously involved in a lot of the playmaking and what's going on in the pitch that doesn't have to be the case like you said Rach with every single game, they will pick up different positions and I think it's the versatility that Jess Park has and I think Serena's talked about how versatile she is and how she doesn't want to just limit her to one particular position so I think we'll probably see more of that so I think the consistency in which we kind of see or are exposed to Jess Park magic I think will change game to game Let's talk a little bit about the Netherlands and Ireland then.

18:31Rachel: I feel like I'm having a bit of deja vu with this one, if I'm honest, because another narrow defeat for Ireland after a very strong start away in the Netherlands. It did feel like this was France all over again. Ireland started super, super well and then not kind of taking their chances, which come back to essentially bite them, really. Go on, you want to jump in, go on.

18:53Chloe: No, I just don't think Ireland started as well as it did against France. I don't think they played as well as they did against France. I think you could see, you know, what was really interesting was how long this international break was and how teams like England and Ireland had much longer to prepare for the first game and had opportunities to do more tactics, more training as opposed to just one singular game focus. This looked like Ireland had three days to prep for the Netherlands. That's what it felt like. There was a massive loss of Denise O'Sullivan. I think, you know, that really limited our ability to break up play in the midfield.

19:25Chloe: So it just felt like Ireland were sat a bit deeper and were a bit more backs against the wall than they had been against France. It's probably a fatigue thing as well. It's very tiring playing without the ball. And I just think they didn't have that same maybe sharpness and discipline in the way they were set up defensively, even though they were keeping the Dutch out. But it actually felt a bit more like a goal was coming from the Netherlands than perhaps it did in the France game. So I thought the Dutch deservedly got a goal, went ahead in the first half. Yes, Ireland did have chances. And these are the differences that we're seeing from teams like Ireland, is that they're getting better to a point where they can handle and manage games better against these top teams.

20:09Chloe: But it's those fine margins of actually executing when you get your opportunities. That's the next step. And that's the difference between... That's not the only difference. There's a big difference between them and the Netherlands and France. But France and the Netherlands, they take their chances. They've got the quality to finish. It's perhaps a less stressful situation for them because they think if we don't get this chance, we'll create another one. Whereas for Ireland, when you're maybe playing with 25 % possession, you don't have that same confidence that if I miss this one, I'll get the next one.

20:35Chloe: So it's that kind of, they need to be better at finishing the opportunities they're making. I think it's really positive that they're creating with little possession and against top teams. I think that's massive, but it's finishing them off. and it's just managing expectations at the end of the day. Like I just see so much kind of negativity around the fact that they lost and people picking holes. It's the same over in England. People are constantly picking holes and actually it's just like managing your expectations at the end of the day. Ireland are not in the top 10. You know, they've fought their way back up into League A.

21:05Chloe: They know this is going to be difficult, but actually playing in the way they're playing, despite it being disappointing, there's so much you take from these games And then when you do hopefully make a major tournament, make the World Cup like they did in Australia, they're not as daunted by the experience and by the opposition. So, yeah, lots of positives. But I just think that Netherlands game, they just looked a little bit more tired and they were definitely missing Denise.

21:29Rachel: I think it's disappointing, though, to see some of these narratives that are very kind of negative around the Ireland team and what they're building. Because it feels like if you're being disparaging about Ireland and the results, then you're only seeing the results. You're not actually watching the games because when you've actually watched these past two games, I mean, I myself have been super, super impressed with, well, you know, the island that I saw maybe six months ago and the island that I'm now seeing. I mean, you kind of said, you know, this felt like there was a game that was a slight reduction in how they were against France.

21:57Rachel: But for me, I thought the punchy start, I mean, within four or five minutes, you've got those amazing chances from Caitlin Hayes. Katie McCabe, like corner, whipped in. Hayes is header across the box, skims the post. I think one of the defenders got a bit of a knee to it to deflect it out. And then you've got this kind of free kick that's bounced in a minute later. You know, you've got Caitlin Hayes again, getting that header on it, but it just goes wide. There's this like great clip of Carla Ward, sort of almost like she's like this, like trying to like head it in herself, almost like trying to get this like virtual thing.

22:26Rachel: And then I've got to agree that, you know, there was a lot of moments where the Netherlands then, I think it kind of felt like that was maybe a bit of a kick up the bum in a way, because the Netherlands then grew into the game quite substantially after, you know, 10, 15 minutes. And you've got Berenstain coming from left, right and centre, trying to score goals. and obviously eventually getting one. Some great saves also from Courtney Brosnan. I mean, massive, massive shout out to her because the game would have been a bit different. I just like... Absolutely world class. She's like a fine wine, is Courtney Brosnan.

22:53Rachel: Just every year she just ages so well. And she's now like this most exquisite, expensive vintage. I feel like she's in her era. You know how much I love wine as well?

23:01Chloe: This is great analogy.

23:03Rachel: But honestly, I just... Yeah, I can't give her enough credit. Like that foot stave with Berenson, the fact that she was... It's the bravery also that she showed when, you know, Berenstain's driving into the box and, you know, Courtney Boson goes down. You know, she picks her moment just right to be able to make that interception. And those are the critical moments in the game because that's the point where you think, oh, the Netherlands could have run away from it. But I do feel like unbalanced, this should have been a draw. I feel like that would have been quite a deserved fixture, a deserved result for me.

23:29Chloe: Yeah. And I think what I find really frustrating, like I understand that there's frustrations more broadly around Irish women's football and the lack of investment in the league and the lack of kind of progress of players from the league into the national pathway. There needs to be an under-23s. It feels like the federation-wise, they're not really trying to capitalise on this growth and go, where can we build to try and make this better? It seems a bit like they're sitting back and they're pulling back. And I think that's what's worrying people, understandably, is that we're not seeing that kind of investment and that real kind of drive to get more players from League of Ireland into that pathway.

24:04Chloe: I think that's an understandable concern. But then that seems to kind of come over onto the national team. And there's a real like, oh, bring back Eileen Gleeson. Oh, bring back Vera Powell. It's this kind of collective amnesia where it's like everything was golden and amazing under Vera Powell because Ireland got to a World Cup. But like the whole point of this qualification process is that things are getting more difficult. Teams are getting better and you have to keep improving in order. It's not like everyone else stands still while Ireland is, you know, trying to catch up and qualify for another major tournament.

24:33Chloe: football moves on and I think what rightly people are concerned about the kind of succession plan of younger players coming through which I understand but the current squad and the current setup are doing their best to try and qualify for major tournaments so it's sometimes trying to separate those two things a little bit there really needs to be in my opinion I'll say it again an under 23s or an under 20s or some pathway for those youth players to continue playing at an international level and have that kind of step into the national team but more broadly you know you need to be able to look at that and be pleased with the progress and see the progress because if you're not seeing the progress you're kind of intentionally being a bit blinkered you don't want to see it as opposed to you know and that's it feels like it's more of a frustration at the overall FAI which I can understand but you need to be able to look at and appreciate where things are improving players are improving they're getting more minutes we're seeing that throughout the squad definitely I think it's

25:25Rachel: super important to add in that context race I feel like you know also you look at the group they're it's a bloody difficult one you know France and the Netherlands I mean you wouldn't you wouldn't want that you wouldn't wish that upon your worst enemy I mean I kind of feel a little bit grateful that we've just got well Spain and Iceland isn't a great one but I do feel like Ireland have had you know obviously faced really tough opposition in this start obviously they've lost both 2-1 but maybe there's a contrast there in that you've got Scotland in League B who have played Luxembourg twice and then beat them 5-0 and 7-0 and people are kind of looking at it but it's not it's not

25:55Chloe: you should be though you should be winning those games and topping that group that's the difference is the expectation and it's like I don't know would you rather we'd gotten battered so you could be like ah yeah well that's what happens when you play France and Netherlands instead we're coming away disappointed because we played really well and rather than going Christ we're coming away disappointed against top teams we're going why are we going to draw to that it's going backwards and you're like no guys come on context this isn't everyone this is just like some bits and flits of comments I've seen on socials and I think the fact we're coming away from that disappointed should tell you a lot

26:25Rachel: definitely but I think the team will also come away from that feeling quite invigorated and I think even Carla Ward there's a lot of positives they can take away from those last performances because yeah I feel like I'm becoming an Ireland fan to be honest mate a really big Ireland fan which is worrying because I don't really have any more teams that I can support physically so yeah you can definitely squeeze us in anyway alright fine do you know what I don't have a green shirt so you can be my green team after the break we check in on the Asian Cup

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28:42Rachel: we're joined by goals lead women's football writer amy ruskay amy it's so good to have you back on the pod it's been far too long how's it all going mate yeah good i was trying to think

28:53Ameé Ruszkai: last time i was on i was like good it's actually not even in my memory it's been that long oh god that's on us that's not me like you know digging you out on there yeah just sort of sly digging

29:05Chloe: there anyway continue no no i fully blame rachel too yeah what no you try that at the beginning of All right, fine, fine, fine, fine.

29:16Rachel: Let's talk a little bit about the Asian Cup then, because that's obviously been taking place in Australia during this international window. It's three groups of four nations, and the group stages have just wrapped up with South Korea, China, the current champions, and Japan all finishing top. Japan won all three of their games, scored 17 and conceded none. We'll get into some of the specific games, but do you feel like there are any kind of major surprises in the tournament so far?

29:42Ameé Ruszkai: Probably not that many just because it's sort of set up with there being 12 teams and eight go through. It's kind of hard for there to be a massive surprise. Obviously, you know, there's some best third place teams that go through and they're kind of surprises when you first look on paper that they're through. But yeah, it's kind of set up for all the big guns to get through. And, you know, Australia, South Korea, China, North Korea, Japan, all through. And then it's kind of nice. It kind of builds up for when it gets to the quarters. You're like, right, this is really big stakes now. But I suppose probably the biggest surprise is that Australia, the horse, you know, a really good team.

30:23Ameé Ruszkai: And a lot of star players didn't win the group. and that's probably the biggest shock of the tournament so far, I'd say.

30:29Chloe: That came off the back of a 3-3 draw, Australia drawing 3-3 with South Korea, equalising in the last minute. I mean, they were through anyway, but they would have wanted to top the group to kind of make that journey a little bit easier, right? Joe Montemiro had said that this was a must-win game.

30:46Ameé Ruszkai: Yeah, and now they've got to fly to Perth rather than staying put, which a lot of people keep talking about and it keeps making me laugh because I'm like, Australia, of all the teams, surely are the most resilient to travel. I mean, these players have to travel, a lot of them, 24 hours to go home and represent the country. So I was like, five-hour flight? Come on, you can do that. But yeah, I think it is quite a big deal, considering they've already flown all that way, and now they're going to move around again. That game was, I mean, it was chaos. I think maybe not such a great surprise that Australia were a bit messy at the back, because they lost Steph Cately quite early to a head injury.

31:25Ameé Ruszkai: Looks like she'll probably be ruled out of the quarterfinals, which is obviously a massive loss. But yeah, the midfield looks a bit disjointed at the moment. They change a lot. Every game has been a different midfield. They don't seem to know quite the right formula in there. Yeah, I mean, if they'd have topped the group, they would have been playing a third-place team and instead they're going to have to play North Korea, which is going to be a really tough quarterfinal. But yeah, it'd be a massive shock if the horse went out that early.

31:57Rachel: What do you kind of make of Australia's chance in this game? Because, I mean, you mentioned there sort of some of the inconsistencies, not being able to problem solve, some of the game management issues that they were having. And obviously losing a key player isn't great either. I mean, yeah, what are your hopes and expectations for the next game?

32:13Ameé Ruszkai: Yeah, it's interesting because they've been through a lot of this stuff before. You think about the 2023 World Cup and they lost that second game to Nigeria and then absolutely thumped Canada. They're almost a team that when the backs are against the wall, they can really come out swinging really well. But North Korea, I mean, such an interesting, fascinating nation, I think, in women's football. They've got such a good youth set up as well and they're bringing that through to the senior team. And what's interesting about North Korea is they've played the same 11, all three games. no other of the top teams has done that.

32:49Ameé Ruszkai: Maybe that comes back and they're a bit leggy and Australia can rotate a bit and kind of have an edge there. You'd expect them to come through. Of course you'd expect them to come through. The home nation, they've so much quality in that squad, but it's absolutely not going to be easy at all. Two of the big favourites for the title meeting in the quarterfinals. It may be great as a neutral, but if you're an Australia fan, then it's definitely not the outcome that you wanted.

33:15Chloe: Yeah, we did a podcast a while back about North Korea, particularly their youth set up after they won the Under-17s World Cup, which was super interesting. For our listeners' benefits, if you want to scroll back and listen to that, it kind of explains why North Korea are just so good. Also, for our listeners' benefit, you may remember Joe Montemuro from his time at Arsenal. Amy, how do you think he's fared since taking charge of the Matildas in June 2025?

33:39Ameé Ruszkai: Yeah, it's been quite tricky because they had quite a big gap between Tony Gustafsson leaving after a really awful Olympics in 2024 and then Joe didn't come in until last summer. So they had like a 10-month gap between Gustafsson and Montemuro. So he's been a bit of a weird one in the run-up to this Asian Cup for Australia. I think it's hard as well because he's not had a lot of time to kind of implement his ideas, even more so when you think that when they go on camp in Australia, which they've done a few times, they've just flown a lot of them 24 hours or something daft you can't just be like right come on then let's go into training you kind of got to give them that time and stuff like that so um yeah I don't think you can judge him too early because he's just there's been such a weird kind of timeline for Australia um it'd be interesting to see how they're doing the knockouts because they looked amazing against Iran the other day and obviously you know Iran not superpower or anything like that in the women's game.

34:41Ameé Ruszkai: But the kind of little points where you're like, oh, they look really good. And then there's points where it's like, oh, you know, I'm not quite sure. So it'd be interesting to see over a little bit more time and with a bit more like ideal condition, how they look under him. But, you know, there's been good signs and there's been sort of less good signs, I suppose.

34:58Rachel: No, definitely. And I think, I mean, it's interesting, obviously you just mentioned Iran there. And obviously it's been one of the big talking points of the competition. A lot has been written about the Iranian team at this time, just in the last couple of days. Their tournament ended after their 2-0 defeat to the Philippines on Sunday, but then they were unable to board the team bus as protesters blocked their way for 15 minutes. So the reports that the processors were there in support of the players chanting, let them go, save our girls. And then before the first of their three games of the tournament against South Korea on Monday, the players did not sing the national anthem.

35:30Rachel: They were called traitors on Iranian state television by some of the more conservative commentators. And now it looks like the story's kind of progressed. And then there's this, I think, more kind of news coming out that five of the players have essentially defected from the squad and are looking to kind of try and stay safe in Australia, essentially. And the authorities are trying to do what they can to look at the situation and see what's best for player welfare. Yeah, how has that been to cover the story?

35:57Ameé Ruszkai: Yeah, I mean, it's insanely worrying to watch from afar because you just, I mean, it's such a unique thing. And, you know, I'm not going to pretend I'm some big expert in visas and asylum seeking and things like that. But, I mean, I think overnight there was word from the government in Canberra that five of the players, like you just said, have been granted Australian visas. I know that even Donald Trump was calling for them to all be allowed to seek asylum in Australia and things like this. It's a crazy story. Absolutely crazy story considering all the visa stuff in the US. Let's not get into that.

36:33Ameé Ruszkai: But it's not as easy as like, oh, they can just stay in Australia. They'll be safe there because they've all got families back home in Iran. Like I think I read a story in the BBC the other day and there's somebody quoted in the story saying some of them have got children back home. Like you're not just going to, it's so hard and complex and you just don't know how this is all going to, there's probably not some sort of perfect resolution out there. But you just hope that they can all be safe. They can all have the options on the table to choose what best suits. And yes, such a distressing and worrying thing to watch.

37:07Ameé Ruszkai: And yeah, hopefully they just can all be safe.

37:10Chloe: I think as well, it kind of puts into perspective the bravery of making a stand in that first game and refusing to sing their anthem. And I think that might not seem like a big thing. But when you put into perspective what they have back home to potentially lose under such a scary regime, it is quite a brave thing to actually take a stand in the way that they did as well. So, yeah, as you say, hopefully that can be resolved and they can be safe. Moving kind of back to some of the other teams involved, there's obviously a lot of WSL interest with 28 players in the competition. 12 of them play for Australia, but 16 are in the Japan squad.

37:52Chloe: And they haven't been doing too badly, have they?

37:53Ameé Ruszkai: No, they look amazing. I mean, they've had a much easier group stage than the other kind of big nations there. You know, Bangladesh, India and Chinese Taipei, I think it was. Like, they just looked incredible. And they made so many changes to the team and still look so fluid. They made nine changes from the first game, nine changes then from the second to the third game. and they just look outstanding. I think they would have to be kind of the pick so far of the favourites. And it's all the big WSL names, you know. Uyuhasagawa's look great. Alba Fugino's look great. Ruka Eike and Hinata Maaz. Miyazawa's got hat-tricks.

38:36Ameé Ruszkai: Yeah, they just look like they're kind of warming nicely into the tournament. And it's kind of that thing of, okay, do they need to play a big nation to kind of be ready for a big nation? or are they kind of building and when that big nation comes, they're going to be in the groove. And that's going to be really interesting to watch as we move into the knockouts.

38:55Rachel: If we look to the rest of the tournament and what's left about the quarterfinals and semifinals, who do we think is looking like the most likely matchup for the finals? And if I could ask you to even state your claim on who you think the tournament's going to this year.

39:10Ameé Ruszkai: I think Japan won it. I thought Japan would win it before it kicked off. So I think Japan won it. I think they've got the most outstanding squad. They look amazing. Like I say, they've been able to rotate a lot in the groups, which has not been something that everybody has been able to do, whether by design of how the game state is and the players they've needed to rely on or whatever. But I think Japan make it through to the final on that side. The other side, I mean, it's China, Australia, North Korea and Chinese side there. I mean, you've got China, the reigning champions. Australia the horse who reached the semi-finals The last World Cup And you've got North Korea which we talked about being Such a unique situation in women's football And such a Well organised set up And the talent they've got and things like that I mean It's kind of hard because Australia Really got the backs against the ball and you think If they can come through That game and the momentum I think it's so hard to pick the other finalists Because if Australia you beat North Korea, they'd probably play China in the next, in the semifinals, that's hard, if North Korea win, North Korea just lost to China in the last group stage game, so like I think Japan would win it I really don't know who's going to be in the final, it could be any of those three really

40:30Rachel: Oh I mean it sounds a little bit like you're sitting on the fence a little bit Amy, I'm not going to lie on that second matchup but I really do appreciate your time today and your insight Amy we'll definitely have to get you back on so much sooner this time. I think the last time we had you on was 2023, so we definitely will not leave it as long going forwards. But yeah, thank you so much, mate. And yeah, speak to you soon. No worries. Thank you.

41:05Rachel: All right, Rach, we're back to domestic football, if we will. Yes, I know. It's been a while, mate. It's been a while. We've got the League Cup final approaching. What first? I can't even remember. Honestly, mate, I think Subway's involved in it. There's some BLT, there's some footlong kind of things that we should be doing or saying around this. Obviously, we've got Chelsea playing Man United at Ashton Gate on Sunday at 2.15. Chelsea have won this trophy three times, whereas United have never won it. In fact, this is United's first time in a Subway League Cup final. when United beat Arsenal to reach the final Mark Skinner said it meant the world to get there this is obviously I feel like this is obviously a big fixture for both these teams they want to pick up this silverware it means a lot to both clubs both clubs received buys to the quarter final stage of the season's tournament as a result of qualifying for the league phase of the UEFA Champions League just to throw that in there and then a little bit of additional information that the match will be using VAR and GLT and boosers allowed which is a really lovely addition I think to my GLT sorry I was like what there's definitely some kind of like funny crossover there but I think when we kind of look at the history of these two teams playing against each other I think we've discussed this previously it's very there's a lot there's a lot of rivalry there's a lot of animosity there's a lot of beef you know it's the north south defied it's blue and red it's but it is very in balance Rach, yeah.

42:38Rachel: So what do you think the expectations are going into this game? Because like you said, history is not kind on United for this matchup.

42:46Chloe: No, but a lot of those results came, you know, in United's kind of infancy, if you like. And they are going to be looking at the improvements over the years that they've made and that they've made it much more difficult for Chelsea over the years. They've beaten them in the semifinals of the FA Cup. That is one thing that will really stand to them and that they'll definitely use, you can't get caught up in these kind of numbers because, you know, it's not helpful, essentially. And if you're looking at progressing as a team and improving as a team, looking back on those statistics are essentially kind of pointless.

43:20Chloe: Now you've got a different team. It's a different situation. It's a final, it's a whole different ball game, if you like. So I don't think they'll be getting too caught up on that. Hard to call, always hard to call, particularly after such a lengthy international break so not only does it depend on like how teams come back after the international break from a physicality point of view how many minutes have they played how many minutes can they play in this game you know are they fit all that kind of stuff but also then you've got the whole break in momentum um has momentum broken for either team whether you know chelsea were kind of looking a bit more comfortable after kind of difficult run has that momentum been broken or is this an opportunity to go right next block let's start afresh so you know a final is always really interesting in and of itself but off the back of an international break it just kind of adds a

44:09Rachel: little bit more spice if you like I think it's that you don't know sort of um obviously when you've got teams have been playing at international going straight into this fixture there's obviously a lot of recovery they don't really get to do and obviously they're playing at you know super super high level they've had some big games they've been traveling away it all takes its toll on you and then on top of that then you've got a couple of teams that are also at a disadvantage I suppose by not being able to have players because of the Asian Cup so yes Man United's squad updates you've got Hinata and Miazau will not return in time from the Asian Cup Fridolina Rolfo is a doubt well done Jake I know thank you I've been working on that she is also a doubt Riviera and Sandberg are still out and the big miss obviously is Ella Toon she's still not recovered from her hip injury yet it does feel like Man United are kind of going into this with obviously not the greatest level of options and slightly weaker than obviously Mark Skinner would be wanting and then on the other side you've got Eli Carpenter and Sam Kerr are playing in the last eight of the Asian Cup two days before this game so whatever happens they won't be involved Millie Bright also in doubt and then Niamh Charles and Nassibjorn and Macario and Myra Ramirez are still unavailable so in a way it kind of feels like both squads have equally got a lot of their key players missing for this fixture, which is disappointing, I think, for fans.

45:26Rachel: I think that's one element to it, not seeing the strongest of squads competing against each other for this one. But it does feel like there's balance in the imbalance in a way.

45:36Chloe: Yeah, I think it's interesting because for Chelsea, they've been struggling with like an out-and-out number nine who was fit to play 90 minutes. So to lose Sam Kerr isn't ideal in that respect, but she wasn't necessarily going to be starting for them. So that is a loss, but then equally, Ellie Carpenter is a big loss, obviously a hugely important player for Chelsea in that respect. So yes, that is big, but then all the injuries you've listed for Manchester United feels like quite a concern. And it'll be interesting to see if any of those will be able to have gotten back in time through this window, if you like.

46:13Chloe: So yeah, it's another kind of, I don't know, layer or level to this game of how that's going to impact them. I do worry more for United because of their depth.

46:25Rachel: I mean, on this particular game, because I'm yet to support Chelsea, Man United are obviously the ones that I'm going to be rooting for in this fixture. The benefit is, of course, that we do still have enemy of the Irish people, as coined by me. This is not something that's been coined by mainstream media. Or me. Or Rach at all. In fact, that term is only affiliated to me in case anyone wants to be cancelled. Enemy of the Irish people, Melvin Mallard, has been obviously crucial to Man United's success this season and will obviously hope to get on the score sheet. When she was 14, Sonia Bonpasta first spotted her playing in a tournament in Paris.

47:02Rachel: Bonpasta was actually the person who made that call that changed Mallard's life. I mean, that's weird that that decision has now come back to kind of almost halter, I suppose, for this fixture. She's been on absolutely great forms. She was obviously a big part of the success that France have had during the qualifying stages. And yeah, I fully expect the same thing for her. She's just one of those players that you know she's going to deliver this kind of, I don't know, this determination, this passion, this ability to take on players, to drive, to take the game to Chelsea. I really do feel like she's going to be the one to watch at this fixture.

47:37Rachel: I mean, Rachel, you feel the same way?

47:38Chloe: Yeah, and she hasn't played two back-to-back 90 minutes. So in terms of freshness, she'll probably be a bit fresher, which Manchester United will need fresher and still has, might not have played both 90 minutes, but has scored goals. So she'll also have, you know, some high confidence as well. So they will definitely be needing that and relying on that for sure.

48:00Rachel: All right, mate, if you're going to call it then, if you're going to put your flagpole line thing in the sand, what are we saying? Chelsea, an extra time. I'm going to say Man United 1-0 full time yeah go on what do you want to bet on? a subway or make it a footlong? I can't eat a footlong Jesus Christ I'll be there all day well you can have it for lunch and dinner what's wrong with you? grow up

48:24Chloe: okay why don't we get a footlong and I'll give you half when I win

48:26Rachel: no fine alright sweet lovely thank you for listening to Upfront we'll be back later this week with an interview you won't want to miss so stay tuned in the meantime you can find us on instagram and x slash twitter i'm at morgy underscore 89 rach is at girls in the ball and we are at upfront underscore pod you can also find us on youtube at upfront pod see you very soon that's not good

49:05Ameé Ruszkai: Upfront is a stack production and part of the ACAST Creator Network.

49:35Chloe: PY via Program Banks as of January 30, 2026. It is representative variable, requires no minimum, and is earned on funds swept to Program Banks. Boost up to$150 ,000. Cash account offered by Wealthfront Brokerage LLC member FINRA SIPC, not a bank.