England lose on their Euros homecoming, Ireland smash Belgium, and goodbye Jess Fishlock

0:28Welcome to Upfront, I'm Chloe Morgan. two decades of service.

0:36Before we get stuck into today's show, just a heads up that we will be bringing you another special interview this week, this time with former Lioness Claire Rafferty. And we're super, super excited for this one, aren't we Rach? Yeah, looking forward to it. You know, I had a great chat with Molly Bartup recently, and I think following up with Claire and chatting about like her ADHD and stuff like that, she's been really open about that so I'm really excited to to chat to her yeah amazing and I think also just like her career off the pitch what she's done oh yeah behind the scenes yeah I'm gonna get stuck into the injuries she came back from like it's unbelievable right moments of the weekend it's obviously been quite an eventful weekend for you with your favorite team back in action again um and also the Lionesses obviously they're friendly against Brazil but where are you going because we also had the FA Cup action as well there's been a it's been a busy weekend I'm gonna to save all my Ireland chat for the Ireland section.

1:28There's lots of good stuff there. Very well behaved. I think if there's one thing you watch from this international break thus far, let it be the Caroline Weir wonder goal that she scored in the 90th minute to win the game for Scotland. She was maybe 35 yards out, caught the keeper off her line and it's literally one of those that just tucks in under the crossbar as it comes looping over the goalkeeper. an absolute wonder strike for her great to see her back scoring unbelievable goals for Scotland great to have her back for Scotland and doing what she does best so yeah that was one of those that like while I was at other games I could just see it popping off on Twitter like oh my god have you seen Caroline Weir's goal have you seen her goal so if you haven't go watch it there's such a template Caroline Weir thing to do as well like you always expect like Caroline Weir Georgia Stanway they're going to score Kira Walsh they always score like screamers like that they're not like they're over the faint-hearted those kind of goals my moment of the weekend has definitely got to be Nostrum Uni they it's the first time they've ever been in the FA Cup first round proper so massive massive congratulations to them and they were also the first university team to make it through to that round men's and women's as well so yeah didn't go to plan played Cambridge United and lost 2-1 but a massive achievement for them and a big moment in history so yeah I really really love that from them but Rach we've got to get stuck in England losing against Brazil.

2:54Not the result that anyone in the Lionesses camp wanted to see. Beaten 2-1 at the Etihad. But let's talk about Chiara Keating making her England debut. What a moment for her. Yeah, just such a special thing to happen over the weekend. And I think, like, obviously she didn't, I think she was quite late to like knowing that that was going to be taking place with Hannah Hampton picking up that niggle. But when you think about like how historic this moment is for, you know, the first black Lioness goalkeeper, making her debut getting that cap I mean you could see how much it meant to her that huge beaming smile yeah it just like as a black goalkeeper myself like having seen like someone get to that level and kind of create history in that way I think yeah on a personal level I just got full of the joy is a spring for her and at the Etihad which is like the perfect place for her to make her debut she was so smiley pretty much she looked absolutely buzzing to be there so yeah that's a good one I'm delighted for her that is a big positive to take from the game.

3:54And now she has her first England cap and now there's another goalkeeper with a cap. Thank God. Thank God for that. There was some like lovely, lovely moments, like lovely footage afterwards in the post-match interviews. And she was saying like, it was a nerve wracking, but very special day. It was the best place for her to obviously make her debut at home at the Etihad. And then there was like this lovely footage of her getting her cap afterwards and wearing it with the England girls. Like she actually put the cap on and sort of walked right, looked like the canteen or something after the game.

4:20and it was such a like a special moment she's absolutely beaming it made everyone else kind of like super super smile but obviously the opening 20 minutes super super dramatic Brazil being up 2-0 after 18 minutes and then immediately had a player sent off um exactly what you want yeah exactly what you want from a game like this um but yeah I mean it didn't feel that great you know nine minutes in you've got Zanarese driving through the middle of the pitch sort of I did think it was a little bit of an error in Jess Carter's part kind of showing her inside Chiara Keating had absolutely no chance so credit to her I know it's a loss but it's also there was nothing she could have done about either of the goals but great goal from Brazil kind of exploiting that kind of midfield area and the errors that were sort of happening in the middle of the pitch really and they're just taking the game to England and you know being on the front foot from early doors but Rach what was your take on that the first 20 minutes because it did seem a little bit chaotic from the England camp.

5:15Yeah, to be honest, I actually wasn't hugely surprised. I mean, I would have liked a better start to the game, but given the number of changes that have been made, particularly in the back line, two of the starting back four involved. And of course, you've got Morgan and Carter, who I don't think have been a duo together before. I can't picture it. So factor that in as well. And to be honest, England are generally pretty flat. after a major tournament. You know, if you look back at a couple of the friendlies over the years or the games that have been played, after 2019, drew with Belgium, lost to Norway, lost to Brazil, 2-1, deja vu.

5:55Post-2022 friendlies, they had that draw with Czech Republic and Norway. Post-2023, lost to Belgium, lost to the Netherlands. You know, it's a bit of a pattern, that post-major tournament, for whatever reason, they really struggle to just kind of get themselves up for games. But you know what? I was quite excited initially when we saw the players that were coming in. We've seen how players like Park have been performing. We've seen how players like Clinton have been performing, you know, and really hope to maybe see some of those. And then you just saw, like, from the day that the squad was announced to basically kick off, it was just like, update, update, update.

6:31How many emails did you get, like embargoed information and non-embargoed information of just being like, okay, this is being replaced, this person is making their debut, this person's dropped into the squad, this person's picked up a niggle. Honestly, it was like musical chairs of England spaces. It's not an excuse. Don't get me wrong. Those players are good enough to perform better. But it was just more of a, I'd really hope to say, see some different faces, particularly in that midfield. And I do think some of that context is lacking in some of the reaction to it. England's midfield was a bit of a problem.

7:04The defensive issues are a problem. There are things that have been consistent with England that really, really need addressing. But then you factor in that you've got players who haven't necessarily played together in that back line as a duo. The fact that, like, I think there would have been different players in midfield had they not been injured. So, yeah, it wasn't a huge surprise to me. They picked these opponents for this very reason. Brazil were going to be a very difficult team to play against. They've just won Copa America. You know, they were absolutely up for this game. I don't know if someone told them this was the finalist amount, but it kind of felt like that kind of vibe, especially every time they scored or when they won it was like we've just won the finalesima well I think it's that like the first goal like it was nine minutes in and you've got the bench like exploding like it was like a world cup final like I've never seen so much passion you forgot for a moment that it was in fact a friendly but 100 % I hear what you're saying on the on the midfield race and we've got a really lovely question in from Tingo who said do you think we have an issue in midfield Russo seemed like she was playing in a hybrid midfield striker role where she was at the halfway mark with her back to goal and holding up the ball for the others to run on to?

8:08Yes, that's a very good question and well spotted. Russo was coming quite deep. She wasn't getting enough service through the midfield and Russo is excellent with her back to goal. Her hold at play is absolutely superb. She's got that strength, that kind of like the solidness to her that like people just cannot get the ball off her when she's got it and I think it gives players so much time to kind of run forward and get into the right position. It's such an important facet to a strikers game because you know say you're like looking at the under 23s or maybe looking at some WSL squads and you see a young player get in a position and you're like okay they've got no support you've got a hold of the ball what do they do cross it into nobody right like it's that game reading of like guys you gotta wait and get yourself some support but it did feel a bit like Brazil's response to Russo's hold-up play was just kind of hold up Russo so every time I get a photo with me like four arms kind of coming out of her you know trying to try to get at the ball which is quite funny but yeah I think that's a really good point because then you lacked her in the box and I thought when I can beaver jones came on on the wing she was able to kind of support to a degree and I do wonder if them in a two would be beneficial you could have Russo in a bit of a false nine position because she's very good at receiving the ball getting into spaces to receive the ball but then there's no one there then to get it off her in the box and you just wonder if a two would like an I can beaver jones might be a little bit more effective and I don't know but yeah that is a really good point I just think there wasn't a huge amount of service coming to her.

9:29And I thought Brazil were very good at kind of nullifying any threat in England's midfield. No, definitely. But this makes it now the fourth game in a row in which the Lionesses have conceded first. Vipan said, we start slow, we make these mistakes. If I knew why, I would have solved it straight away. I thought that was a really good answer. She did get asked that. Why do you keep conceding so early? As long as she's going to go around, well, that's actually a tactic because we find we play more effectively and we really put the pressure on once we've gone behind. Like if she knew why, they wouldn't be doing it.

9:56It's not intentional. I think it's that. And you could obviously see like there were facets of the game that she was trying to kind of improve on, you know, making those substitutions when she did and kind of, but she was also playing with players that hadn't played necessarily together in those roles for a number, like for a number of games. They didn't have that. She also had to factor in the fact that she was playing with a squad that, you know, wasn't, I suppose as cohesive as what we've seen in the Euros and had played together for a number of games. So, but she also said, yes, it hurts because that's the environment we're in.

10:24But at the same time, it's not the Euros or the World Cup. There are no consequences. You do take these opportunities to try things out, which is 100 % absolutely fair. It's not the finalism. It is a friendly, despite how Brazil celebrated all of their goals. No, I read that. But isn't this the point of these friendlies, is to be exposed to, you know, you've gotten a team who are very good in the counter, who can, you know, put balls in behind and absolutely provide that direct threat that England struggle so much against. You're not going to fix that if you don't play against it. So it is important that, and actually even more important that maybe players who don't necessarily always start in those positions but might come on are exposed to that kind of threat.

11:05So perhaps those injuries expose more players to a difficult situation that maybe may have been exposed to it, if you know what I mean. And she has that balance of obviously wanting to win the game but also having to juggle the injuries and also wanting to expose players to different things. So I think it was a great team to play. It is exactly what the point of these friendlies were. And I've said it before, the selection of different teams that they've chosen from around the world, I think is going to provide a real challenge because they now need to think completely differently now preparing for Australia.

11:34So, which I think is great, but I know it sounds cliche, but I really do think you learn from these kinds of games. You learn more than if you've just run over someone 6-0. So can I ask, right? Like you've played in games where you go down to 10. and I know people like to use going up against a team that goes down to 10 if it's their team they'll say well it's really difficult to play against a team that are down to 10 because they become much more disciplined and diligent and whatever else but when it's England it's obviously completely unacceptable and when a team goes down to 10 the opposition team goes down to 10 does that change your game plan as the attacking team or do you just think well surely this will be easier for us now because we've got an extra player like obviously it changes the team that have 10 but the team that has 11 do you guys have to have like a little moment from the side of the pitch or some notes coming on to be like right actually we're going to have to do xyz instead of what we planned well i think it definitely depends on what that team what they do next you kind of want to execute your game plan so you give it at least five or ten minutes to see if like the game plan that you had at the outset going against 11 how that is going to change and whether that team have kind of i don't know pulled depending on what position it is that's been sent off whether they've pulled someone back into midfield or or pulled someone back into defense like and then And you can kind of almost like counter that with like overloading whatever position is going to be left without a spot, I suppose.

12:51So it is a bit of a kind of it becomes a bit of a tactical chess thing. Like what's the next move and is that previous game? But you have to be adaptable to it. But I did think that there was an England that stepped up definitely once Brazil went down to 10. Like you look at the free kick, Alex Greenwood. I mean, how many times did we hit the bloody bar? When that happens, though, you just know you're not going to score. Like you've got to play for those 30 minutes. But honestly, to God, how the bar has withstood so much pressure and so many of these shots was incredible. That was such a great free kick from Alex Greenwood.

13:21I think obviously Jess Carter, really, really unfortunate to kind of be a little bit off balance. The player behind her was kind of coming in and kind of headed it clear rather than headed it directly into the goal. But then you've got that red for Angelique. I mean, a great obviously threaded pass into Kira Walsh and then catching Brazil off guard, which again, another really great moment. and then you've got Tuna going through on goals or 1v1 and I rate the passion from that. Like I always rate the passion in a player that kind of puts himself in the mentality that this game means a lot more than it actually does.

13:50I think you should always play as if like these games are super important because like you said, they do teach you something. But going down to 10 that early in the game, definitely a red for me. Like no doubt in my mind at all. But then you've got like the lovely penalty, Beth Mead obviously taken down in the box with the player kind of following through. Oh man, when she went down. I thought, like, because I captured that on my camera and it's just, like, a knee and her ankle like that. And I was like, oh, my God. Initially, I thought it was her knee. And I was like, please, this guy, like, not another player getting another serious knee injury.

14:20But I don't know how she got up. Do you know what? The heart-in-mouth moment for me was, like, the actual penalty being taken. And then it looked like the keeper just about got a hand to it. It kind of, like, almost, like, went underneath it. I think she could have saved it. But, like, her arm position was a little bit out. But then, again, you've got Russo, sort of, like, the effort at the far post where the ball's being whipped in and she just about misses it. She couldn't angle the ball down. And then you have Esme Morgan popping up out of nowhere. Massive long-range effort. They were giving her so much space.

14:49It was like the parting of the Red Sea. She was like, here I come. And then you've got Stamway again with another long-range effort hitting the post. There were some really great moments and any one of those chances does change the game. But like you said, it did just feel like the ball was not going to creep in. But it felt, you know the way sometimes you've watched England games and you're just like there's no teeth to this attack like it all just feels like no one believes it and there's a lot of passing around and there's you know slowing things down or recycling the ball this felt like it had teeth this felt like players were they're trying to take quick freeze they really wanted to get a goal like it felt like they were really working hard and I think you have to credit Brazil's defence I thought Brazil defensively were super diligent bodies on the line being really close to players in the box man v man or woman v woman marking making it really difficult for them to get any time to do that unless you're Esme Morgan in which case by all means carry on I do think that's kind of also missing from some of the narrative is actually crediting Brazil with being, particularly being down to 10 being so well drilled defensively, every tackle was like celebrated and it made it really difficult for England to get shots off and to get shots on target which will be a disappointment for them but it didn't feel as toothless you know the kind of way there felt like there was a bit of a drive and now I know what you're saying about Brazil's passion and I actually think that was one of the differences as well in the game was that like they absolutely turned up whereas England had that similar thing post major tournament where they're like oh I'm gonna do this again still the kind of way it's like 90 minutes I did I did I did feel that there was a slight flatness there um yeah but I think like yeah I mean a part of it was to be expected like I'll come off the back of the major tournament obviously you had so much and we keep sort of going back to like the the personnel change you know Lauren James that Leah Williamson Grace Clinton Jess Park Lauren Hemp you've got Hannah Hampton Katie Reid like all these players were were out which kind of gives Serena a little bit more of a headache but there I think let's end on some really positive notes some really really positive notes Carol Keaton obviously um and also West Ham's Anouk Denton uh called out for the England senior team as well.

17:02That was quite random. Yeah, amazing for her. So congratulations to Anouk as well. The Lionesses face Australia tonight at Derby's Pride Park Stadium. I hope they fix their pitch. Yeah, what are we expecting? Do we think it's going to be a bit more of the same, a bit kind of some more flatness, a bit kind of some more rotation? I don't know. I'd like to see a little bit more rotation. You know, I'd like to see maybe players like Laura Blunt, Gilda Brown, getting a bit of time. That'll be great. You know, I do maybe think we'll see a little bit. That's the point of these games. And, you know, people demand this and that and they want Chloe Kelly to start.

17:40Yeah, she started. Didn't score. You know, like the whole point of these things is that players get these moments. So critiquing, well, you did this and you should have done that. I get that in a major tournament. But I think like in these kind of friendlies, sometimes you might look at a manager and they're losing and you go, why the fuck have you made that substitution? you're like well actually that was probably the game plan because x player was going to get minutes or they wanted to give this player time in this position and just because you're losing isn't going to throw all of that learning out the window or the learning opportunity out the window so i'd like to see yeah a little bit of rotation i'd like to see less flatness and maybe for them to take that energy going forward from the brazil game into the australia game and just you know bring the shots maybe in a couple of inches within that little frame of the goal and that would be that would be ace I think for me I really want to see like a tightening up of England's defense I think what I did see was kind of us going super super narrow at times when we shouldn't have gone narrow and then being super super far apart when we shouldn't have been far apart and I think that's obviously a bit of a lack of cohesion with the defense the defenders that we've currently got but I did think Esme Morgan was good though yeah I think she had a good game Yeah, I think Jess did struggle a little bit in parts.

18:53But I think, yeah, there was just moments where I feel like they should have just showed players out. And it just felt like they were trying to almost get them into the frame of the bot. And I just thought that's just very dangerous to do. Positionally, I didn't like what England were doing. So, yeah, a little bit more of tightening up in that. Definitely a lot more tightening up in the midfield and not allowing players to drive through the centre of the pitch completely unopposed for 20 minutes at a time. That would be really, really helpful. and also if things don't go to plan also not this kind of like chaotic panic that everything has gone to shit and England the the Euros winning England are completely out the window and that was an old era and people like calling for Sassie Beeksy's job that's one of the things I don't want to see um so yeah this ability to just completely forget any good performances England have have had in the last year because it just doesn't suit the narrative they've been shit since Euro 2022 to, all right, you just tripped and fell into a World Cup final.

19:46And we all know that the performances throughout the Euros weren't perfect, of course. They were very, very good against the Netherlands. They were very good against Wales. Their game plan was very good against Spain. But all of that is just like amnesia when it comes to England losing because everyone's like, see, I told you, everyone's shit. Sorry, I need to go. Well, let's definitely drop those narratives and hope that the Australian leg of this kind of international friendlies go a little bit better. But we'll speak more about that in part two, along with Ireland's victory over Belgium on Friday night.

20:35All right, Rach, I can see the smile on your face. You look so elated with Ireland beating Belgium at the Aviva Stadium in the first leg of the UEFA Nations League playoff. Ireland 4-2 against Belgium. Katie McCabe with an incredible, incredible hat trick. I mean, Chloe, stop trying to annoy me. It's so annoying. It's unbelievable the kind of impact that she has. She was unbelievable. Let's definitely get stuck into her. yeah I mean the leadership that she shows how she leads by example is absolutely incredible I think like 100 % player of the match I mean the passion dedication what she was doing she was taking the game to Belgium the goals that she scored were absolute worldies and yeah I mean Rach go on I know you can wax lyrical about her and I know you want to you're absolutely chomping at the bit I could I could see it in your face I think it was a performance she needed um you know obviously hasn't had like an unbelievable start at Arsenal she's not starting every game um this season and I think she has had a bit of time away from Ireland she wasn't called up during the summer windows intentionally to give her a rest but I know she would have been chomping at the bit to actually be there and be within that squad so I think she had a good bit of time to reflect and to be honest Ireland haven't really been together since June so I actually find that this break has been really good for them because it felt like and I said this before they never really dealt with the Wales defeat and the coming out of the Euros and suddenly they were into league um lead B and they were expected to win everything and they had a new manager and there was a lot to contend with um so I think yeah this performance particularly given the number of players injured Courtney Brosnan isn't there and Leanne Kiernan isn't there you've just lost um Megan Campbell Megan Connolly's injured Denise O'Sullivan could only manage 45 minutes like there was a lot for the the team in terms of senior players to deal with.

22:28And I just thought their diligence, the game plan spot on, and their diligence in executing that game plan for the full 90 minutes. I know that sounds really stupid, but when you're playing up against a team like Belgium, who are excellent on the transition, something that is a very good weapon, we saw that at the Euros, to be able to counter that. They were essentially more aggressive. They were sitting a little bit deep, but not parking the bus. they were a bit more aggressive but they were also defending from the front and led by Kira Caruso and Emily Murphy who run their legs off I just thought yeah the first half I was like we are all over Belgium here we should be up by a couple of goals at this stage so that penalty I thought was a well deserved lead to go into the break when Belgium came out and scored so early I was like okay previously we've seen this happen with Ireland and they kind of fall apart a little bit none of that they went straight down with the next attack and that wonder strike from Katie McCabe suddenly they were two one up and the confidence in the team I just thought it felt like a different squad almost or a real kind of new step in this journey of Ireland the belief was there and I think that was something that was maybe lacking in the past where players have just seemed a little bit out of sorts and maybe not fully on top of the game plan or what they're trying to do whereas everyone just felt really on it and they're going to need to be in Leuven tonight because Belgium are very good at home and Belgium are going to definitely change what they did the other night.

23:59I don't know whether they underestimated Ireland, maybe. So it's going to be a challenge tonight. I'm just glad we've got a bit of a cushion. Well, I think it's that. Obviously, having the two-goal advantage, they're sort of going into that second leg in such a favourable way. But I think, you know, what I was super-super impressed with was kind of like the strong attacking intent from Ireland. Like, there was no shyness. There was no lack of confidence there. They were taking the game to Belgium and I absolutely loved that. But they were also taking their chances. They knew that there weren't going to be loads and loads of chances in the game.

24:30But they absolutely created them. And I think there was so much momentum, especially after the break. And the timing of the goals, so, so crucial. I mean, even after, like you said, Belgium equalising, Ireland responding that quickly to kind of regain the advantage again. Shifting that pressure back to Belgium, I think that was absolutely spot on. that's when you want to kind of get that back again and get that momentum. And I think there'll definitely be some frustration from the Belgian camp with some of the nature of the goals that they conceded. But let's talk a little bit about those Katie McKay goals because we've got quite different views on that sort of, not a fluky goal, but it kind of looked like it was a midway between a cross and a shot.

25:08It kind of went over Nicky Everard's head, kind of hit the post. It then hit Nicky Everard's back and then kind of went in. You don't think it was a Casey McCabe trilogy. I kind of think... It's not. By definition, it's not a goal. It wasn't even on target. It's not counted in on target. So all our listeners are going to agree that it was not a Casey McCabe goal. I don't do facts. Okay, Rach, I play in the moment. You're a goalkeeper, you mean? Yes. You're never going to say the goal... I'm not saying the goalkeeper did anything wrong, but it was a goalkeeper on goal. I watched this a few times.

25:39I was like, was it the positioning? Because obviously she was backpedaling quite a lot when she could see that the ball was being whipped in. And I think from the position that she was in, 100 % in the right starting position, you're not expecting that a player, I mean, it's a pretty unusual goal to score. It's pretty unlikely. So you don't cater for that. You cater for the fact that Katie McCabe is probably going to whip a ball in. So her positioning, absolutely spot on. Obviously she was caught off guard a little bit. Just about got kind of, I don't know whether she got sort of something to it-ish, like maybe like a fingertip of a glove, but it's kind of hit the post then, come off her back, super, super unfortunate.

26:12it but in my opinion like if it's hit the post and kind of gone in I appreciate it's off her back but like that to me just feels like a Katie McCabe goal so if it was a defender what would you call it if it ricocheted off a defender instead would you call it a Katie McCabe goal yes I would yes even if it wasn't on target look I told you I don't deal with facts and rules and you know what though my issue with this isn't your inability to deal with facts and rules my issue with this was the amount of people who didn't watch the game and just tweeted that Katie McCabe or put out people that are meant to be like supplying news stories that Katie McCabe had a hat trick and just left it up there.

26:50And I was like, but she didn't. Like you just have to look at Ireland's full-time tweet. It says Everard own goal. And even Katie McCabe was like, yeah, it would have been nice to have a hat trick, but that wasn't a hat trick. And like she was, she's super like, there's a, not that she's not mature, but there was a maturity about her in pre and post match where I feel like she's learned a lot from the Wales game where she was almost a bit too hyper around the second leg given it all this in the stadium and stuff. She was so like, taper expectations, calm down. This is halftime. We have to go away to Belgium now and finish this game.

27:26Even after the full time and players were all excited. She was like, doing this, calm down. She was not that fussed about the hat trick question or was it a hat trick and whatever else. she was just like we got the win that's all that matters it's half time a tempered Katie McKay is a very unusual beast and tonight and she keeps saying this tonight should Carla start her and Carla kind of looks at her like obviously I'm starting you your maturity's gone too far yeah she will make her 100th appearance for Ireland that's incredible absolutely incredible I think I've also got to give flowers to Marissa Sheva I've been scoring that stunning hard volley and I think it was just her reaction it was almost like shock that she'd done it.

28:08But the celebration for that, if you haven't seen that, that was an absolute worldie of a goal. And they all celebrated. And they all celebrated where I was with the camera. I was just like, oh my God, this so rarely happens. It's unbelievable. 100%. But this win does now mean that Ireland in the driving seat for promotion to League A of the Women's Nations League, which matters because League A teams will have clearer paths towards major tournament qualification. yeah it's going to be a big game tonight what are you expecting from Karl Ward's side well I've not had great experiences in Leuven so Belgium as I've said are very good there they like playing there I expect Ireland to be maybe a little bit more reserved I do think they might try and get a goal and then sit back but yeah it's just for me if Belgium get an early goal suddenly it's 4-3 it makes for a long night so it's going to be that balance of do we give ourselves just that one more bit of cushion or do we sit back and try and hold on for 4-2 and I don't know because ultimately Belgium needs three goals tonight right to go through that's a lot and they have to hope Ireland don't score so yeah it's a difficult one it's a difficult one for Carla to manage a two-legged game important game like this but I think whatever happens like Ireland are in that bit of a rebuild phase at the moment They have a lot of leaders have retired.

29:32They have new players, young players coming up. Should they get to League A? Unbelievable. If they don't, it's not the end of the world. It doesn't kind of stop them getting into the World Cup. I think it would be a shame given they're going into this game 4-2 up. But I think this is, you know, I think they can build a lot on the performance from the other night in the Aviva. I think, not that a lot of them would be necessarily surprised, but I think they can be really proud of how they perform and they can say, if we go and do that again tonight, we should win that game. 100%. And I think it's like you said, Grace, there's so many key players missing.

30:07So to still pull out a performance like that, I think the issue that they're now going to face is kind of maintaining that discipline and kind of dealing with the away match pressures and then 100 % ensuring they don't concede early because then that starts to feel like the pressure is on for the first... Yeah, because after Belgium's second goal, right it suddenly felt really squeaky bum time and that was also to do with the fact that they had to make a number of substitutions they're managing Roosha Littlejohn's minutes they're managing Denise O'Sullivan's minutes so to come out of that with a 4-2 win in spite of making all those changes because you know it isn't necessarily the same level coming on and the ability to keep that same level of intensity within the game plan when you make those substitutions I think that will stand to them but you know Anna Patton will be back in she's missing because of um suspension so she'll be back in for this game although I do think the defence did pretty well so that'll give Carter Ward a headache but it's just more experience within the squad so if substitutions need to happen in defence you've got some good experienced heads to step in there Well, wishing Ireland the best of luck for tonight let's talk about another big, big legend of the game we talked a lot about Katie McKay but Jess Fishlock played her last ever game for Wales on Saturday 19 years after making her debut for her country she played her final match on Saturday in Wales' 2-1 friendly defeat against Australia obviously the result was not the most important thing on the day but she was substituted after 92 minutes bringing her 166th and final appearance for Wales to a close I quite like that she got substituted then because it allowed her to have an individual moment coming off the pitch rather than like full time and everyone's like where's Jess?

31:46I need to go over and say like well done she actually got the opportunity where like Australia were clapping like they were giving her pats on the back the whole crowd is able to stand and kind of appreciate and celebrate her and I thought it was a really nice touch that she was able to have that moment actually you might look at her go why'd you take her off in the 92nd and not just leave her on to have that individual moment was was lovely to see 100 % I think and so well deserved I mean when you look at kind of the career and the legacy that she's had I mean she's kind of been a little bit of like the heartbeat of Wales yeah it's that like she is like she embodies like the dragon through and through and I think like when you look at kind of what she's done with Wales and like where they now sit in history and kind of you know the 2019 world cup qualifiers kind of the euro 2022 and 2020 2025 qualification campaigns and it's just like Wales kind of reaching these massive pivotal moments in their history and I was looking back I was like okay well like when when did this you look at when this first started so 2006 was when she made her senior debut for Wales against Switzerland and I think you can't even comprehend like how much change has gone through the squad in those 20 years and and where they are now um but yeah I think even beyond sort of like off the pitch like in terms of like her influence like she is a massive advocate she's like the the visibility that she's had as an openly gay um player I mean yeah she's just she's just iconic just absolutely iconic I mean yeah where do you even start with a player like that and the contribution that they've made to to the international stage I think measuring her contribution is probably quite difficult um she leaves a huge hole in that squad uh and she has been almost as important as she was in her heyday if you can even find a particular point of a heyday she was as important then as she was now she was like the key player for them one of the key players for them at the Euros to sustain that level of impact and importance throughout your career is pretty incredible and I think you You know, when we've had those campaigns where Wales have just missed out on qualification and always in the back of your mind, you're thinking, how much longer is Jess going to stick around?

33:52And if anyone's going to hang on and keep turning up for their national team, it was going to be Jess Fishlock. So I think the fact that they, the qualification, knowing that they qualified and she was still around, I think for many people was like, thank God they've qualified while she's still playing. Her getting, and like, this is the moment that will stand out for me. it was always going to be her getting their first goal in whatever manner of situation it was even if they were in the group of death the first goal had to be Jess Fishlock you just knew it had to be so she would have been written into the history books already but now there's just a few more kind of things they can put her name next to in the in the Wales annals of their history in football so it's no more than she deserves I think yeah a wonderful wonderful career 100 % like even talking of like more accolades I've got like a list here of everything that she's done in her career and November 2020, November 2017, she became the first player, male or female, to reach 100 caps for Wales.

34:48We said this during the Euros, but when Finn, our producer, said this beforehand, you're like, fuck, I forgot about that. She's played two thirds of all Wales games. Crazy. Ever. That's insane. That is absolutely crazy. She needs to be on the flag or something or like in the crest. She should be the face of the dragon, essentially. A little topknot. let's get that to a vote she's made 166 out of 246 possible games for Wales the weirdest thing is the goal scorer for Wales Manchester United's 18 year old Marad Griffiths was born nearly a year after Fischlacht got her first international cap I mean if that doesn't tell you kind of the scope of like the what she's done and like how long she's been in the game and like what she's achieved I just don't I don't know it's just unbelievable but congratulations to Jess Fischlacht for all of us out of front.

35:39Absolutely amazing career. And yeah, it's lovely to see you retire on such a kind of a beautiful moment and to get your flowers on the pitch and sort of get that moment was lovely. Rach, you're heading off. You're flying out. You're on the road again. Oh, training. Trains, trains, and automobiles in this way. Okay. I don't know what that was. It's a narrow... It's a narrow... I was trying to do it. Oh, nice. Okay. I'm in a narrow window, Chloe. You can't see my hands. The shrug. Yeah, nice. I was like, okay, this is unusual. She's losing the plot. Yeah, enjoy the journey, mate. Say hi to Soph.

36:14I hope it's a lovely day in Leuven for you both. Oh, Soph's going to be due in England tonight, sure. Oh, okay. Oh, amazing. All right, well, that's where I'd rather be. But yeah, enjoy the time in Leuven, mate, and stay safe. Thank you so much for listening to Upfront. You can find us on Instagram and xlustwitter. I'm at morgy__89. Rach is at girlsontheball, and we are at Upfront__pod. You can also find us on YouTube at UpfrontPod. Join us on Thursday for our conversation with Claire Rafferty. It promises to be a fantastic episode. Otherwise, see you next week.

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